City Council - Regular Meeting

Okay. Now we're gonna move into our study session. It's 05:24. I'll start with public comments. Are there any requests to speak? We

have several requests to speak.

Mister, if I'm I actually gonna not refuse, recuse myself on this matter just to avoid a possible business conflict. So I would do so now?

Yes.

Okay. Thank you.

First public speaker is Ray Price.

Here we go. Hello, everybody.

Welcome.

Hi. My name is Ray Price. I've lived at Los Cavaliers for thirty five years. I own my own condo. I'm also on the HOA board. Alright? As we all know, living there, it's a family oriented complex along with a sports club. And we've had issues before with the homeless. As many of you recall, we have the encampment behind us, Lois Cab, alright, on the riverbed. We had plenty of issues. We've had to hire extra security. Alright? We've had crimes there. We've had issues with the homeless coming into our units, using our pools, bathrooms, and scaring some kids. Alright?

So that's a big issue, but that's a low scab. And also the membership, even though the low scab condos are separate from the club, they the homeless go through the parking lot vandalizing some of the cars, and it could affect also the club and the membership. Lois Cab is a jewel here. Alright? We have Mile Square Park.

Today, we should be celebrating Saint Patty's Day at Silky Sullivan's across street, which is no longer there. And Lois Cab is the other jewel of Lois of Fountain Valley, which I love living here for thirty five years and owning my condo. And so we have so many kids living there family oriented. Alright? And having homeless there would be a detriment to not only to Fallon Valley but to Lois Cab itself.

Since I love Lois Cab, I don't want to see it be less safe than it is now. We've had to hire extra security during that time when the homeless were coming into our club and our condos. So it's hard because it is a terrible situation for the homeless, but I hope you can find other venues, be able to do this instead of spending all that money. I wanna keep Loews Cab safe as possible for the families of Loews Cab and Fountain Valley. Since Lois Caballeros is definitely more not only for Fountain Valley, but also for Orange County and the country.

Lois Caballeros has a reputation now of having tournaments there from all over the country. It's a place where people wanna come. So I love to keep it safe as all possible, and I hope we could find a different venue for the homeless if possible, but I think Loews Cab is not the place to do that. Thank you very much.

Michael Wakefield.

Mister mayor? Mister mayor, would it be helpful to have the presentation before public comments just so the con the comments can have the context of the presentation?

Yeah. I think that's sort of the sentiment of the council up here. So we're gonna put a pause on public comments because I think the the presentation is probably prudent to present at this point.

Happy Saint Patty's Day.

Michael, we're gonna have the presentation. We'll call you back up in a in a few minutes.

Oh, okay. Sorry.

You'll have an opportunity to speak after the presentation.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council. I'm going have to lean in here a little bit I think. I'm going to make a brief presentation and then I'm going to turn it over to Robert Daley who's our housing technician who's going to give you kind of walk through this slide deck for you. Just kind of some background on this, we were approached by Fountain Valley Rental, it's a group that owns 14 units of the Loews Cab development.

Those units, 14 units have existing deed restrictions on them. They require that they be rented to low income residents. The ownership group approached the city as they believe the city's housing authority may be interested in purchasing the units. I believe their intent is to sell the block of units, in which case, regardless, the city would have the first right of refusal on those units. And I'm kind of losing my voice here.

So we then presented that item to the City Council at a closed session as part of property negotiations, and then we had a follow-up meeting to discuss further price and terms with the City Council. So as presented in my public comments prior to that second closed session, I wanted to reiterate some points. There seems to be some information on social media, which I think was echoed in that first comment as well. So first and foremost, if the city moves forward with the purchase of the units, the intent is not to create a homeless shelter or house the homeless over there. We have a navigation center, that's where we house our homeless.

That is our homeless shelter. Homeless shelters and navigation centers belong in large warehouse buildings where you can put up a lot of beds and house a lot of people. This is not a homeless shelter. It cannot be a homeless shelter. It doesn't act as a homeless shelter.

The existing affordability covenants are for lower income residents. What we would be looking at is using them as they are now to house low income residents. So in our housing element you'll see that we have about 2,500 between about 2,545 families that are at risk of losing their housing. That could be through losing their job, it could be through medical expenses that overtake all of their circumstances, it could be seniors on fixed income. And so about 2,500, 2,600 families that are at risk at any given time.

And so this would allow the city, if the City Council wanted to move forward, to be able to house our local folks when and if the need arises so that they don't become homeless. And so that was the intent here is that we don't want people to become homeless, to go out on the streets. Streets. We want to make sure that there's housing available to them and that was the intent here. So I'll turn it over to Robert Daley and then he'll give you the specifics about the

possible purchase. Thank you. Welcome, Robert. Thank you.

Slide here.

You can just use the use the mouse to move the

Oh, there

we go.

Thank you. Mayor Kunin, city council members, city manager Lee, good evening. For our study session today, we'll be discussing the proposed acquisition of 14 affordable housing units located within the Los Caballeros community. I'll briefly go over how this opportunity came about, how it will be funded. I'll discuss the affordable housing agreements that are already current that are currently in place.

We'll also talk about who these units will serve and what ongoing operations may look like. I believe we all know where they're located on New Hope and Warner back by the Santa Ana River. And the properties, the units are across two units within the Los Caballeros community. There are currently seven affordable units in each building and then with an equal mix of one and two bedroom units. As Omar stated, city staff was approached by the ownership of the affordable units regarding the possibility of purchasing them.

The city has an existing funding source available for this purchase. That is the Fountain Valley Housing Authority Low and Moderate Housing Asset Fund. That fund has about $9,000,000 in it for affordable housing activities. And I wanna be very clear here that this fund is separate from the city's general fund.

Can you quickly go over where that money came from so people know?

Yes. You're right. One slide ahead of me.

Ah, thank you. Yeah.

The asset fund, it's governed by the California Health and Safety Code. It was part of redevelopment funds that was partially from the State of California. And that money has now been transferred into agency, which is called the Fountain Valley Housing Authority. So state law requires that these funds be used for affordable housing activities such as purchasing, rehabbing, and preserving affordable housing. Acquiring existing affordable housing, which is what we're discussing today, is an acceptable use of those funds.

There is a requirement to expend 30% of the housing asset fund on rental housing for extremely low income individuals. This chart shows the income limits to qualify as low income in our area. These limits are adjusted for Orange County's high cost of living. And I do want to just pause here for a minute for everybody to digest just what it takes to be low income in our community. Now let's discuss the affordable housing agreements.

So all 14 units currently have an affordable housing agreement in place until 2062. The covenant will remain in place regardless of who owns the property. The existing agreement requires that these units remain affordable housing. The units are rent restricted and the tenants are income limited. The units will not become transitional housing, halfway housing, bridge housing, or housing for people experiencing homelessness.

They will remain affordable housing as they have for the last eighteen years for the duration of their agreement. Also, the units cannot be sold individually. They must be sold in a block of seven. So all the units in one building or all the units in the other building or both have to be sold together. Also, the affordable housing agreement states that Fountain Valley Housing Authority has first right of refusal on any sale of the units.

So who will be served with these properties? Well, the same people who are still living in them. No tenants would be displaced by this acquisition. As units become vacant through natural turnover, they will be filled through a regular application process. Applicants must be low income to qualify, but once they sign their lease, they pay rent as any other rental in our city.

These are people with lower incomes, young professionals, people just entering the workforce, Perhaps seniors, people who are living with disabilities and are surviving on fixed incomes. Perhaps families who are doubled up with school age children and need affordable housing. Moving forward, if we were to move forward, the property would be managed by a firm that's experienced with affordable housing. They would take care of the application process, the screening, all of the documentation, as well as ongoing maintenance, the late night calls, and all tenant relations. And this is a very important aspect here.

State law requires that income derived from the housing asset fund must be returned to the housing asset fund. This rental income cannot go back into the city's general fund. So why this acquisition? As stated earlier, city staff was approached regarding the possible purchase of these affordable units. This purchase would support the city's housing element and housing goals, especially goal number five, which is to conserve and support affordable housing opportunities in the city.

The purchase would use these highly restrictive funds for their intended purpose. It would preserve the units and prevent the possible conversion to market rate housing once the affordable housing agreements expire. And multiple unit purchase opportunities are rare and less expensive than new construction. Council member staff is seeking the public's input and further guidance from the city council on completing due diligence and finalizing a purchase and sale agreement for City Council's consideration. Thank you very much. Oh, thank you. And I'm here for questions.

Okay. I'll open up to council questions. Councilman Bui?

Yes. So I I have a questions for you. So I've read the the Housing Authority and Housing Successor Agency annual report as well as SB three forty one. And I did not find a deadline rules or no fixed expiration date on the dollar amount. So I want to ask staff if there's an immediate expiration date on the use of the 9,400,000.0 of the low and moderate income housing asset fund.

Yes. I want to defer that question to phone a friend over here Because I want to make sure that we get that answer exactly right for you.

I think that the CDG fund, yeah, but not on this one, so I want to make sure.

So the expiration would be on excess funds. So there's a calculation of deposit versus expenditures. Because we have encumbered money for the operation of the CCNC and for administration costs through the lifetime of our affordability agreements, we don't have any excess surplus. We wouldn't have to return any funds.

That's correct. Only if it's excess. If not, there's but at the entirety at this point, the 9.4, we're not subject to return. For example, if we don't use, let's say, by tomorrow, we got to return it. No. No. I just want clarify that because I didn't see that on the report or the SB three forty one indicate those rules.

Yeah. In the excess surplus section, it just indicates that we don't have the excess surplus because we've encumbered the funds. Therefore, we don't have to return any.

Great. Thank you. That's all. That's my that's all I have.

Councilman Grandis?

Yeah. First off, I'm really glad we're doing this meeting tonight because there was so much misinformation that was being spread throughout the community, regarding what we were trying to accomplish and not accomplish. One thing I do not like about this project at all is we're taking 14 affordable housing units, spending the $9,000,000 or however much it is, and ending up with 14 affordable housing units. There's no gain. You know, if we're gonna do this, we should buy affordable housing.

And clearly, nobody is complaining about the people who are living there today. It's not like there's gangs moving in and there's homeless moving in. It's your neighbors who are there today where there has been no complaints with. So I would like us to see us take that money, buy something somewhere else so that we can have more affordable housing in the city and not just taking that money and wasting it.

Councilman Bui? Yes, have a question. I want to know why customer Constantine recused herself as where this matter has been in closed session twice, and she was in it.

I'll defer that to city attorney Burns.

Well, according to Council Member Constantine, she had a business interest. I'm not sure what that business interest is. If you want to ask more specifics when she comes back out.

Then the business interest start from where? Because she was in two closed session.

I'm not sure.

Can we ask? Okay. That's important because if she had a business interest at those during those closed sessions, she should have accused herself as a bit of a cautious not to be in that closed sessions.

I yeah, I don't know where the interest started. If you wanna take a brief recess for five minutes, we can we can talk about it if if this is a question that, council wants an answer to.

Can we just do it at the end? Because it does it's not gonna change anything now. Just when she comes back in, we could ask her.

Alright. So why don't we finish with the questions from counsel, Give the public a chance to speak. There's plenty of plenty of comments. And we'll that. So appreciate that, councilman Bui. Any other questions for staff? Okay. Great. Why don't we move into public comments?

Thank you all.

Thank you.

Just a quick housekeeping. I have Aaron Roedecker. You wrote item number seven. Is that correct? And Michael Wakefield, you're up. Is there an just one second, Michael. Is there an Aaron Roedcker?

Yes, sir.

Oh, sorry. Item number seven or item number one? Item number one. Okay. You're You'll be up in a little bit. I was just wanting to clarify that. Michael Wakefield, you're up.

Thank you for your patience.

After hearing the truth as to what is really being proposed here, my stance has changed dramatically. You know, they put tags on our doors saying that it was gonna be a, you know, a homeless encampment. So I'm sure the the previous speaker just before me probably would have changed his his speech or he would might not have done a speech if he if he had heard known the same. Because I yeah. I live I live there as well, and there is a elementary school nearby.

So for them to have a homeless encampment right there, I just thought it would be unusual. And I wanted to do this in an unbiased way, but thank you. I really don't think I have anything to say. I think it seems very helpful for the community. The only thing is if I have a question, should I ask during other times or would now be a good time? Because I wouldn't want my condo to be affected by it because I do have a condo there and I'm pretty new. That's my only concern. Thank you for letting me stand here.

And if if sorry. I don't mean to step in. The the planning the community development director might be able to help you with that question that you have.

No. Don't say that.

The the there's existing two blocks of seven units as as Robert mentioned. So the only those that are existing affordable would be affected if you're not living in one of those and you wouldn't be affected.

So you wouldn't know if you're living in one

of those?

Yes. Thank you. Do you mind if I step out?

Thank you. And mister mayor, I apologize. I wasn't asking for the community development director to come up and speak. That would be entirely out of line for me. I was just saying that he could connect with them after the meeting.

No problem.

I I think the the issue has been resolved. So appreciate it.

Thank you. Yep.

Another housekeeping issue. Libby? Yeah. What item are you speaking on?

Study session.

Thank you. Sorry. Next speaker, James Henshall.

Good good evening, ladies and gentlemen. My name is James Henshall. I'm the general counsel and chief financial officer for CFG Investments, which is one of the businesses which is at 17220 New Hope Street, back where we're called Plaza De Lago, the Plaza De Lago office complex. Thank you for an opportunity to speak on this subject tonight. Thank you also for your clarification.

Based upon your clarification, it does appear as though the city does need to do a lot more educating as to what exactly is being proposed for this property. As you know, the city's goal of using the Los Caballero Sports Complex since the nineteen seventies has been to allow there to be a unique place where recreational facilities, business owners, and residential communities can thrive for the good of the entire Fountain Valley, city. For this to occur, there must be an appropriate fit between these recreational facilities, business owners, and the residential communities. Right now, it appears as though everyone is wondering what that fit would be because the project which is being proposed seems to be up in the air. Therefore, very clearly, there's going to need to be more education of all of us in the community, not only the residential community, but also the business community, which currently operates there.

We've been there for since 1979. We can also tell you that as we move forward with the Plaza Del Lago office complex, we basically wish it to be a complex which is going to thrive and which will continue to fit with the plans for the Las Caballeros Sports Complex. This could also include expansion of that area in terms of we have medical businesses that are interested in moving into that area, that basically are interested in the 54 business condo complexes that we have there. We wish to move forward as a business community there to make sure that the residents basically are taken care of, to make sure that the recreational facilities are taken care of, and to make sure that the business community is also taken care of. In order to make sure of this, I do believe that we need much more information on what is being proposed, including much more information about whether there would ever be considered any type of transition facility for any of these 14 units.

I know I keep hearing no, but we would need to see legislation indicating it is a definite no, and it would never be used for that. So I appreciate your time. I look forward to hearing from all of you in the future concerning whatever this project winds up being, and I look forward to hearing more in the community about what is being considered by this city council for this project in the future. Thank you.

Good

evening, everybody. I wanted to connect with Glen Brandis here because I think what you bring up is a valid point. We are switching hands, something that's working well, that's being managed really, really well by the Los Caballeros real estate and financial services. All the people that are currently occupying the 10% affordable housing are being vetted with their background checks and their credit reports, and they're good residents of our community. When, again, we there's so many unknown what may happen, and it just doesn't seem right, that this needs to switch hands.

Right? When Fountain Valley Housing Authority takes takes place, right, as a management for these affordable units. Are they gonna have the same the same qualifications for people? I have there's so many questions that are just unknowns. Right? Who is gonna be in control of all of this? I'm not opposed to income housing. I came here as as an immigrant at 19 years old, and I was able to build my life here. And one of the units that I lived was an affordable housing that we're talking about. It took me fourteen years to become the owner, so I know how hard it is to build the family.

Today, my four children play in the courtyard that's secured, and I know that I'm safe right now. But what you're telling me, it really makes me question my ownership. And I just want to make sure that all of you would be standing in my shoes if you were here. Right? Can you protect my family when people that I don't know they're coming from by the way, I am a property manager right now, and I am dealing with people from different housing authorities, different cities of housing authorities.

And still very often, they come with bed bugs, they come with roaches, they come with cannabis as their way to mitigate stress or their illnesses. There's still individuals that have not their deposits have been given by another by another agency. So it's it's still very questionable who is gonna be moving in next door to my children. And I my biggest concern is can we keep it the way it works? Can we keep it the way we know it's safe? Thank you.

Katie Wright.

Welcome.

Greetings, mayor Kenene and honored council members. I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't live in Lois Cab, but I recall going to the opening of Lois the Prados project on Harbor. And in that case, the city was able to use property they owned to create a home for people who were low income and veterans. And it was one of the proudest moments of attending any city event was watching that opening.

I was so proud of what was accomplished there. If this were handled correctly, and I don't know all your details, but if this were handled correctly, this could be a great boon for the city. Someone suggested it doing somewhere else. I'm not a judge of any of that. Again, I don't have a dog in this fight.

But I do remember attending various strategic planning sessions and there was a study session a year and a half ago, 09/17/2024. And there was a presentation by city attorney Colin Burns about the idea of housing programs for city employees. A big issue for a lot of cities, and it's been brought up numerous times in Fountain Valley, that we have trouble all cities have trouble competing for what limited workforce is out there that wants to find a place to work and live. The people who often work in Fountain Valley cannot afford to live in Fountain Valley. So best case scenario, if this were handled appropriately, this could be workforce housing.

You could bring in families of city staff, firefighters, young police officers with families that can't afford to buy a home in Fountain Valley could live here, have a much briefer commute, live a better quality of life, and I assure you they would be phenomenal neighbors. And I would wonder, someone brought up to me, does how does this affect our arena numbers? Well, that's a big issue for us. And I'm wondering where we are on the arena numbers right now. So I don't know if we could get an answer to that. I don't have a whole lot more to say. Don't have a dog in the fight. A lot of people do, so I'm gonna go ahead and relinquish what's left of my time. Thank you very much.

Mina Suriel.

Welcome. Hello. Good evening. Thank you for having me. And first, I just wanted to excuse me for maybe my English is not that well.

So I'm on my property on Los Caps maybe three years ago. I worked hard. Me and my wife, we worked super hard during the pandemic time just to save some money until we could be able to get our own property. And actually, my my I was planning to speak different way until the presentation because it's make my my mind to change because through the the last week, we received two flyers and it's given us a clear quotation like, are you comfortable with possibility of homeless shelter next door to you? It didn't say anything about low income.

So this is a different speaking now. So my question is, is it like a low income or a homeless shelter? And the second question, who is responsible to put this flyer on our home Thank you. On on our houses? Because it's coming from the city.

It's coming from the the HOA. Actually, this is a big point because we we have our our security door is down since maybe three, four months ago and it's not even secure. Since I see this one yesterday, when I get this property, we get it for secure, safety, and for privateness. When I see this point, this flyer yesterday, my son started crying because he feel like he will not be safe. And if any one of you, I'm sure, I'm bitten myself, if any one of you put himself in our shoe, he will not be agree for anything.

We, all of us, we can feel sympathy with homeless. We can help them. I wish to help them, but it's totally different. It's low income or homeless shelter. That's it. Thank you.

Robert Eisenman.

Welcome.

Hi. Nice to meet you all. My name is Robert Eisen. I'm a long term resident of 17230 New Hope, which is club forty two. By the grace of a friend of mine here, I I have a long term resident there. We love it. It's an athletic club. It's a it's a pretty good group of people. And just very recently, we got a flyer on our door that the main impact of reading it was that it was gonna be several units. I believe it's 14 were gonna be bought by the city.

And they would be used for the word that we were concerned was was homeless. And the last gentleman's question was perfectly applicable here. Did we need to delineate, will it be homeless or will it be low income? Low income, there's I support it all the way. The homeless part, it where our building is, we cherish that particular property. And being an ex sheriff from another county on the East Coast where I'm from, I'm very aware of things that some people aren't directly aware of. And where we live is by the riverbed, which I like. I like to run on it in the morning, ride my bike. I like the cool air. But what's happening is we have a large flow of of homeless people, and I try to help them when I can.

But that flow has gone over our fence of our property and security is somewhat hard to come by. So we all look out for each other. And what's happened is several of our bicycles have been vandalized or stolen. We have security cameras that have captured people that aren't residents coming over our our walls and things like that is just not okay. We have little kids in our one of our neighbors, good friend of ours, they just now now they their child just turned three and they're very active in the tennis part of our club.

So I'm here to say that the feeling that we got, if it's it was supposed to also be drug rehab is what we were told. And if that's the case, thank you for clarifying that because that was our that's the information we got. So if that's not the case, then I won't even even waste the time with that. I have fifty seconds. Can I bring up a separate second matter? Is that okay? Okay. Thank you. So where I live in that Club 42, we are adjacent to Coley River Road. Coley River Road has Omni Metals, Kenlin Specialties, and Metal Masterminds.

Three companies that do cadmium and rhodium and Teflon coating, which is toxic, it's cancer causing. They have between the three companies they have eight shops. So because of the riverbed, the wind and the way that the buildings are laid out, that those fumes go right into our building at Club 42. So I've I've taken it all the way with South Orange County air quality all the way to the attorney general. And I just wanted to bring it up so that it we will have had spoken those words like my time's up, but thank you very much.

Mister mayor?

Yes. Councilman Grundis. I think it would be helpful

for I know people have, arrived later. I think it would be helpful just a thirty second recap to make sure people are comfortable that they understand this is not going to be a homeless shelter, a drug rehab center, sober living home, etcetera. Because I think a lot of the Do you

do you want staff, Robert, to kinda recap briefly? If

you wanna take fifteen seconds because other concerns are still they're still coming up.

Of course. What is being proposed is hello. And thank you again. What is being proposed is to for the city to purchase units that are already affordable housing that have a fifty five year covenant to remain affordable housing. It cannot be changed no matter who purchases the properties. They they the covenant will go with it.

So will it be a homeless shelter?

No. It will

not be used for homeless shelter, transitional housing, drug rehab, any kind of thing like that. It will remain exactly what it is. Then

can you have Councilman Bui.

Yes. Thank you. Can you have a clarification? Currently, now, we have a navigation center Yeah. That is to address the homeless. But that is temporarily. That's why it's called, you know, shelter. At the end of the period, which is what, sixty days or ninety days?

It will be up to six months.

Six months.

And sometime they provide some flexibility to ensure that the individual have income stability to move on to the next opportunity.

And after the six months, could this affordable housing will be the permanent place?

If they were to apply, just like any other resident who is income qualified and were approved, there would be no preference given. The city would not be able to take somebody and place them into this housing.

Okay. So they could apply and to move in there?

Yes. Just as anyone else.

Then follow-up questions to one of the speaker who spoke earlier. What is the difference between a privately owned entity for their affordable housing component versus a public, the governance?

They would be it would be the same.

Okay. Just wanted clarification because I have a different understanding Okay. On on the guidelines on that.

I can I can defer to one of my supervisors? Okay. Because the vetting

process is very different between a private and and then a public. Anybody

want to take that?

Maybe to get some clarification from staff.

Thank you.

That would be helpful. So

as a public entity, staff would be responsible. So, if there are any complaints or whatnot, then, those would come to us. We would go through a vetting process just like it. What we're proposing is to have it vetted just like any other private entity would so that our intent here is not to improve one group's quality of life and detract from all these people's quality of life. Our goal here is to improve everybody's quality of life and so we want to ensure that whoever moves into those units is well suited to live in that community. And so that's the goal here. I don't know what the intent of the question was or what the can you rephrase the question?

Yeah. So my understanding as a private entity, their process to vetting through the affordable housing component, it could be a little bit, you know, the approval might be not as same as the public. They have my little bit more strict requirement, especially the public. The public is a little bit more on the inside because they have to be able to allow everybody to come in as long as their income qualify.

We would all be governed by the housing by the housing by the deed restrictions and the housing guidelines for that area. That's what governs it now and that's what would govern it in the future. Whatever affordable housing agreements are in place, that would govern that governs it now, that and that would govern it in the future whoever owns it.

Okay. I just wanna make sure that's been addressed.

So continuing with public comments. Angela Brown.

Welcome. Thank you. Well thank you for having me. Good intentions aside, it's what's in writing that matters. And what you're saying is that it's not for homeless people.

But if you could please read the first block on page 124 of the proposal. Can you you do that? Because that's what's in writing on page 124 of the proposal is and I don't have the I don't have it in front of me so I am summarizing. But it specifically says that it will house 38 persons experiencing homelessness. That is homeless.

That is not low income, that is homeless. And it's what's in writing that matters. So anything can be taken and twisted and changed. Once it's in writing, you can use it. You can say, oh well, yes that was our intention of course, but you know, it's in writing, that's what's here and that's what was approved.

And we've got children that live in the community. Children, we serve, we host all kinds of competitions all year long and children are living among us, know, they're supervised of course and they have chaperones, but they are children. And to have that, you know, to have them exposed to something could be terrible. So I think it's really important that if you're going to say it's not for homelessness, you need to take that out.

Thank you.

Erin Rodecker.

Welcome. Good evening members of the council. My name is Aaron Rodecker and I am one of hundreds of property owners at Loews Cab. I have heard of the city's proposed purchase, and I have several concerns, many of which I know are shared by other residents and owners at Loewskab. What guarantee do we have the city won't change the use now or in the future to be more or even exclusively used for homeless?

You can tell me that you wouldn't vote for it, but can you guarantee that the next council won't either or find a loophole we won't discover until later? How can you guarantee that the people occupying these units won't be drug users or criminals? And even if you tell me that you have a screening process, can you guarantee that they won't relapse or invite former members of that ilk? Recovery centers are growing, and the majority of the clientele are repeat visitors. And while this may sound insensitive, I didn't buy my home to live next to a rehab facility.

Loews Cab is one of the most densely populated residential communities in the city. Why not consider something less populated such as a stand alone apartment buildings, something in an industrial area mentioned, perhaps even the old firehouse? I understand the building directly behind me near the library is in need of a significant remodeling. Perhaps you can use the funds to repurpose that. I think we can all agree that the homeless and transient people need special attention. What we don't agree with is putting it in a sensitive and vulnerable area. Please find another location.

Libby? Actually, mister mayor, I I'd like to make a comment. So one one thing is you need to understand this is currently affordable housing. The people are there today. You ask, can a drug somebody with drug move in next to you? Next door to me, somebody could do that. It it's not this is not what it's purposed for. Can somebody with an issue move in? Absolutely. Just like they can move in anywhere else. It is currently affordable housing. That will not change. I just wanna make sure that's clear. It's there today. It's already there.

So it's not like we're adding it. It's just changing ownership of it, just to be clear.

Mayor, if, Omar can provide clarification on the last statement.

Thank you. Omar?

Yes. So I think there's a little bit of confusion. This is a study session item and if the public would refer to the staff report for the study session item, I think what was being quoted prior was part of our annual progress report that goes to ACD every year. I think there was some information taken from that report which talks about our navigation center, about the affordable housing, our RENA numbers and the goals and policies in the housing element. I believe that's where that information is coming from. That is not to do with this item. It's a separate distinct agenda item only talking about the Loews Cab area that's later on page 124 deals with the annual progress report.

Okay, Great. Thank you. Libby, you're up. Welcome.

Thank you. I came without a speech prepared tonight because I wanted to listen to hear what all this was about because I've seen all this stuff on social media. I don't have a particular problem with this proposal, but as Glenn said, it's just a net even score. And we heard we've got 2,600 people in our city that are at risk of becoming homeless. I don't know.

Can this $9,000,000 be used, say, as block as grants or subsidies to people who are on the cusp of losing the home they're in so that we don't end up with more homeless people instead of just keeping 14 units that are currently home for low income staying at low income. And so I'm just thinking is that I don't know if those funds are allowed to be used for that, but if they could be, that seems to me a better use of the funds than just staying even where we are with 14 units that are currently affordable, and they're going to remain affordable till 2062. And to those of you in those cab, I am so sorry your neighbors, somebody who lives inside your gated community is probably the one that flier your doors to get you all worked up about this. But it's good to come and hear what your counsel is actually considering, not what your neighbors are fear mongering. Thank you.

Daryl Payne.

Welcome. Thank you

for having me. I'm not an owner of a condo there, but my son is. And unfortunately, he's out of town on business right now, so he asked me to come tonight. And his also, he got the notice on his door, so he was alarmed. So I briefly texted him with what is actually going on.

And his comments were as he didn't think he should compete with the city when buying the condos, I don't know if that's relevant or not now. They're already purchased. It's my understanding. So he's all for if they build a new place somewhere else and remodel it, he's in for that. But he did ask me also to mention that he's had a number of power outages there at the complex. And if it's possible, somebody could look into that. I'd like to give the rest of my time to look around. Would you like to come up and share some time? I don't know what they explained to you.

What I'd like to say is that there has been some changes to the agenda. But what is at issue is what is in writing and it is very unclear as to whether or not this is going to be affordable housing or homeless housing. And I think that that needs to be very clearly specified. Thank you.

Laura Muniz?

I just want to comment that real quick. If you recall what I've stated earlier and all my data boy has confirmed that, that it's just terminology, affordable housing and homeless shelter. At the six month where the homeless goes, go place where they could go affordable housing providing as long the income satisfied, that's going be their permanent housing. Just change the title to affordable housing because they can apply to go there if they qualify on the low income as affordable housing. Am I correct

on that? Like any Anybody. Any human beings apply there, they So just to put to understand not.

Yes. But the the idea of that is also to help.

If we had an available unit and we advertised it, then anybody would be open to rent it. We'd still have to go through a process and I don't know if the person who would get those units. We can't I'm not committing to that. So if there's somebody from the CCNC that was looking for housing, the people that run the navigation center would look for housing opportunities for them. They're not guaranteed a spot in here. That's not what's being discussed.

But if they the the if they apply the number, Mitch, they get going.

Just as you could.

That's what I'm saying.

Yes. Just like any human could.

And John, also to address

That'd be the if I may, that that would be the case today as well. So That's right. If 14 units are there today and somebody wanted to apply from the navigation center, then that could occur today as well. Or if the unit sold to somebody else that they could apply it as anybody else could to that new owner as well.

And just to be transparent, I think this is this discussion has also brought up is because there was a council was trying to find a solutions where to get permanent housing for those who need them. That's why this has been brought up. You know, after they stay six months, you know, we need to address permanent housing for them. We got to be transparent about that.

Yes. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, there are 2,600 about 25 to 2,600 families that are at risk and so we do need permanent housing for those folks that are at risk at losing their home for different reasons.

But let me ask you this since you brought that up. You say could be at risk. That sounds to me that's the data, you must have got the data somewhere, but could be at risk, it sounds more like subjective.

Not could be, they're at risk. They've been designated at 2,545 people have been families have been designated at risk based on statistics in our housing element.

Okay. All right. Thank you.

Thank you.

Mister mayor, as a point of parliamentary procedure, our regulations for public comment allow each speaker three minutes to speak about each agenda topic. It does not allow speakers to use the rest of their time to speak about other agenda topics or to take the rest of their time and give it to other speakers. So just to keep everything within our within our rules, we do allow each person up to three minutes to talk about this one topic. If they wanna talk about another topic, they can submit a blue card to talk on unagendized matters or anything else on the agenda just to help just to help the public understand.

Thank you for that clarification. Yeah. That that's the different rules for council maybe than other governing bodies, but good point for clarification. How about the next public speaker?

Laura Muniz.

Good afternoon, council. My name is Laura Muniz, and I am the resident broker and currently property manager of Los Caballeros Sports Village when it comes to, the associations and a lot of residential units in there. I personally, managed embedded the current affordable housing units for a long time. And I like to bring to your attention since it was mentioned that that actual agreement is not going to change. A lot of those units are moderate housing and moderate income qualified units, which is north of like, what, 90,000 a year up to maybe $1.30, $1.40, which no one from any navigation center is going to be able to afford to live in or qualify for.

They are currently affordable housing units. So what is the purpose of displacing 14 families to only bring in another 14 set of affordable housing families? Wouldn't the resources be better used elsewhere?

Nobody would be displaced.

So you're purchasing what is already in place, which is affordable housing

agree with what you're saying. I'm just letting you know nobody would be displaced. But I agree with your premise. Yes. So what I understood is you guys

are trying to house people that on units that are currently housing families that are very low, low and moderate income families. So again, I personally vetted every resident in there. I manage these properties for a very long time, and I am very well aware. And I'm pretty disappointed that you guys would have these closed session conversations without actually speaking to the person that regulated this and worked hand in hand with the city's housing authority, yeah, person that has changed for quite some time now. So I guess I I wanted to bring in one last subject which is these units are in an association which could simply vote rentals aren't allowed.

So what do you do then?

Your questions, you say the moderate you've read it moderate between 80,000 to 103,000. Is that for two

or for one resident tenant? There's seven units that are very low and there's seven units that are moderate income. If you look at your numbers,

you'll see

that the moderate income are north of $80,000 starting with one one person household.

Okay. So you're concerned yeah. Because I saw earlier to our staff that present two low income is 108,000,000 So the other one will be displaced. Right, 108,000,000. That's what I was right. 108,000,000. So basically, the rest will be displaced. I see what you're saying. Thank you.

So you're, again, purchasing property that isn't quite affordable when the money could be better used elsewhere. That's it.

Laurie, your time's up. Mark Leonard.

Hi. Good afternoon, mayor, council members. I guess I'll try to make this brief. I had three primary concerns as it pertains to this issue or the study session. The first of which is based off the price quoted, it looks like you're paying above market rate, which makes it seem like the city is not necessarily getting the best value, which was a little bit of a concern based off of that.

We now have reason to believe that a member of the council person has a financial stake in the transaction. Secondly, as another member of the council member brought up, this does not actually increase or address the underlying issue of the housing shortfall or affordable housing, in which the case that since it's already currently designated as affordable housing, it does not increase the supply and that that money might even if it results in less units constructed, might still overall be a better use of the funds because it actually addresses increasing the supply of affordable housing. And I believe one second, The third issue alright. I kinda just thought it was just it seems like a bad governance as far as the conflict of interest and the fact that someone didn't recuse themselves prior. But that's all I had to say and I just wanted to be brief, so

thank you. Evan Jorgensen.

Welcome. Hello.

I also wasn't gonna speak, but then I noticed that some things aren't even being addressed here. Like, why would the Fountain Valley really wanna put out the money here and not increase the total number of units to low income housing. And when they actually state here that right now it's low and moderate income and it states in the write up for this topic that over time you would convert it to very low to extremely low. That wasn't brought up in the discussion, the city's discussion before we were supposed to speak, and it hasn't been addressed. So that's why I wanted to bring it up.

Thank you. Thank you. Blaise Stilwell.

Welcome.

Thank you. Good evening, counsel. A little nervous. I've never done this before. I wasn't gonna speak, but I figured I'd come share my thoughts. Many have already expressed some key points. I think what stands out to me, I'm a resident of Loews Cab. I am also a homeowner. And I agree with mister Grant's sentiment of this is just sounds like a shell game to me. Right? You know, you're taking money or affordable units that are already what they are and then purchasing them like there's no increase. Right? Why would you just move one thing to another? Doesn't make sense, which now begs the question to me of like, well, what's the incentive for doing that? We have someone who's refused themselves due to business interests.

Makes a lot of sense to me. I'm very skeptical of these things. And then I look at the long term implications. Great presentation, by the way, on all the reasons that it makes sense. But I'm concerned as a homeowner what this looks like a year from now, two years from now, five years from now. So you're telling me it's not gonna be used as a homeless shelter. Well, if I know anything, you know, no offense about government bureaucracies is they change things. You know? And I need to be very, very clear on what the future looks like. I think all of the residents and all of the homeowners and renters would need to be very, very clear on that too because I have some serious concerns.

It could change. And, I don't know that that's been made clear, here today. So, I just hope that you consider that. In my opinion, I think that that $9,000,000 could be allocated elsewhere into actually increasing the number of affordable units rather than just becoming a business partner with the city and a government agency, which I also have some concerns about as a homeowner. You know, we are an HOA.

Seven units in my community of 42. That's a pretty large stake. And, again, I I don't I'm not clear and it hasn't been explained on what that relationship looks like over time, you know, as being part of the HOA, what that does if I wanna sell my condo, know, the economic impact, so on and so forth. I know that sounds shallow, but it absolutely has to be considered, you know, for us. So thank you. Ben Nielsen.

Before I start

Welcome.

I was quite concerned when I walked in this evening and looked up on the board here. And you folks were in negotiations on this project. You were here to hear what the community has to say, you were negotiating in the back room. This is the way this thing's been handled all along, and it's a bunch of BS. It's not fair to this community.

Okay? We were not in negotiations on this project before.

Evan, well maybe it was something, was that the agenda was a different last week. Well, they shouldn't have it up there then. That was very Evan brought up something good and I don't know some realized it. Right now, those projects or those units are low and moderate income. What the city is proposing per our planning director's report is to go to extremely low and very low income. Big difference. That's what you're gonna get over there. He he also suggests a nonprofit would run this. Well, I've read a lot of stuff about nonprofits running things for the city. And government housing is not very pretty when nonprofits gets involved.

By the way, mister Glandis, I know you say the state money is taxpayers money. Okay? There's about 400 units over there. You're going to do a good thing for two or three very wealthy operators and you're going to put those 400 units at risk in their cost. Foundry already is doing their part. You're spending $375,000 on CityNet. I don't know how many dollars you're spending at the navigation center, but I'm sure it's a big number. You have approved 15% of all the new buildings in Fountain Valley have to be affordable housing. What else do

you need to do?

You've done a lot and I compliment you on that. You don't need to get involved in that facility over there. In Omar's report, he says they're going to get involved in the community. Well, the community is a sports club. That's an extra fee.

That doesn't come with a condo. You can own a condo there and not be a member of the sports club and it's not cheap. There's other ways to use this money and I've read a lot of the background on this on the funds. Some of the things that you might consider, we have a lot of seniors in this community that are living in the house they bought twenty five, thirty years ago, they can't take care of it. Insurance companies now are requiring electric panels to be replaced.

Subsidize those folks, those seniors that can't afford to do it. A lot of our original community was done with wood fencing. Those fences are falling down. Help those senior citizens take care of those fences. And last but not least, find a way that you can get and I heard this one when we had the discussion about the housing, the big monster housing. Well, I want my kids to be able to live Dan, your time's up. Well, provide a grant so people can buy stuff at Lost Cab.

I have no more requests to speak. City manager Lee?

Yeah. I just wanna make aware of the last statement. We do have our home improvement program in place. So if there's any seniors that have challenges in replacing their fences or looking for opportunity to help from income perspective, Robert definitely will be able to assist those seniors with those low income. So we do have a program available.

We're definitely behind schedule. I just wanted to see if it makes sense to invite those who are in the lobby who have been standing there for over half an hour to at least invite them in because we we're not done with this item. We have one more. So perhaps just get them off their feet.

Yeah. We can Yeah. Item number two, we can probably move until the end of the session.

Or next. There any Next meeting, whatever.

Are there any speakers for item two?

No. I have no speakers.

Could do it at the end of the meeting.

Is that the will the council?

Okay. Yeah.

Alright. So we'll we'll move the mayoral rotation to right before closing. Okay?

I'll go get that

stuff. Hold on. Don't we need to provide direction at this point?

Yeah. We're not done with what I I just wanna make a comment. I see a lot of people standing in back. We apologize for the delay.

Well, I'll I'll just give my feedback on this if we're you know, the direction is that this is not the right location. I think that we have 9,000,000 that came from the state. What I meant is still tax money, but it's not city of Fountain Valley general fund money coming out of directly Fountain Valley pockets. I think we need more affordable housing, and doing this does not get us more affordable housing. It changes nothing that's already there. So I'd like us to see other locations. Thank you.

Councilman Bui? Yes. So just for clarity, like I said, this item has been brought in closed sessions, couple of closed sessions and out of abundance of precautions, I recused myself from it just to make sure that there was no conflict of interest. Once it was determined thank you. Once it was determined through my treasurer that I have no conflict of interest and then I was bought in the last closed sessions and this was part of the discussions and I say, wait a minute, the public was not properly, we did not do a proper presentation to the public.

We need to have the public waiting on this one and that's why you're here today. So my concern once again, have not she just my colleague Constantine mentioned earlier that she has recused herself without giving an explanation why she recused herself, but she was in two closed session. I like to know about it before we make a decision and we'll talk about it. Why she recused now while she was in two closed sessions and discussed moving this forward? So that's why I like that.

So as to my point of tonight, affordable housing, homeless is very important. It's definitely important for the community. But we as a city and this Board of Council over the year, we have spent roughly $377,000 a year contract with the CDNET to address homeless outreach and navigation center. Part of that 253,000 come from our general fund and $124,000 come from our local housing allocation program. Coming down the pipeline, Slater Investment, we're going to have 33 affordable unit.

The Holland project, which is a boomer site, 78 unit. The shop off project Euclid and Howe, 82 unit. Those are affordable housing unit coming off pipeline. So why are we in a business need to buy 14 property to do this affordable housing? It doesn't make sense.

There's no need for it. So I'm not in favor of this. I would like staff to come back with a report outlining the potential options for how the city may use the low and moderate income housing asset fund, 9,400,000.0, consistent with state law. To my understanding, there are many options. In particular, I would like staff to explore whether it would be permissible to use a portion of this fund to support a first time home buyer assistant program for low income farm value resident.

I

remember several meetings ago, mister John Etheridge said he want his kids to live with him, but his kid can't afford. Let's explore the options for them to grant to buy it. Condo home condo is about what? $507,100,000 per unit? Yeah. For a condo? Between 5 and 700 in that ballpark? Let's explore. I don't know I'm not a real estate specialist, but I'm going give that ballpark. Let's explore the grant to give this grant to the family that are right here in Farm Valley so they can move out from their parents and have their own home, if it is allowed.

My understanding, I looked at it, it's allowable, but I'm going let staff do their job. And such as I'm going finish, such as down payment assistance or share equity purchase assistance if allowable under the governance statute and program guideline. The report should include any legal limitations, income requirement, affordability restrictions, an example of how other city have successful implement similar program. That's my conclusion.

Thank you, Councilman Bui. Vice Mayor Harper?

Thank you. Thank you. Am I on? Can you hear me?

It's a little low. Rick,

am I enabled now? Okay. Alright. Thank you. Alright. So I appreciate everybody coming out. First of all, you for for your interest in the city and the community and what's happening. Know when it when the I I first of all I whoever put those door hangers on it's not not real not cool. I mean, were definitely a lot of misinformation and fear mongering as somebody put it. So I don't appreciate that and if if you're out there whoever you are if you're watching don't do it again.

Please. Anyway, having heard the kind of the discussion historically we've used the low the that fund the low medium LMIHAF the Housing Assistance Fund to help with the financing for low income housing projects around the city. So the Prado is it the Prado homes was the most recent one. We loaned we have made a loan of $8,000,000 to Prado to help them finance the project and they're paying that back. We have another one with where's the other loans we have Guadalupe Manor are they do we give them money or?

Jasmine Jasmine there's Jasmine are the senior apartments of condos across from Fountain Valley High School and so we provided some financing to do that. Based on the comments that I've heard tonight and thinking it through, think the public is still uncomfortable with this proposal. And probably we should look toward more traditional uses of these funds which are these kind of large low income housing projects. But know those those projects are few and far between. So we may end up having this money sitting in the low housing fund for a long time if we continue that route.

So we could we could explore buying existing housing converted to low income housing. That's very expensive. Mean if you look at what cities what are paying to take an existing buy an existing unit convert it to low income. Now you're probably looking like a million. Probably get nine units for that for that if we were to go to that route.

So while that does increase the level of low income housing, don't think you get the bank for your buck by just going out and buying a unit and converting it. But anyway at the end of all this, I think it's probably prudent to not move forward this particular project. But in the future, I think it's a good idea to have maybe a more of a broader discussion on how we what's the best use of these to to put these 9,000,000 to use because right now it's sitting in the bank. It's not creating any low income housing units. I'd like to see it put put to good use.

Thank you Vice Mayor Harper. So just to summarize first we appreciate staff you know trying to make some efforts to see where where these very restricted funds could possibly be entertained. And I think the takeaway from this evening is this this idea has been pretty much vetted and, you you know, I think it it taught us a lot on how to approach future future properties. A cup a couple takeaways for me is we probably should leave maybe, like, closer to two hours for a discussion on, like you know, to try not to squeeze it in before general session. So so that's one thing we'll we'll make sure to have more time for that in the future.

I think you can hear the the the sentiment from the council is good idea, wrong location. Okay? So and and that's what that's what the point of these presentations are is to get that feedback. And and so I I share with the council the sentiment of this is not the right property to move forward, but it's it's got us on now a a path to explore. Well, number one, is it possible to use these funds anywhere?

That's the challenge. It's very difficult to apply these very specific funds, and and we'll keep looking. And I think that's that's the point of of of this process is to give us the ability to at least ask those hard questions and and, you know, bring the public back if another location sort of starts lining up, and we'll go from there. So is there any other staff direction just so we can close-up on this item?

So I think the direction of staff, it sounds like if I Mr. Councilman Grant is on board, it sounds to me that we're not in favor of this project. However, have said earlier that I like to staff to bring it back options what we could use, which is I have said earlier. And I actually there's a lot of options, Mr. Mayor. I read through the entire bills. So there's quite a few options and it's, you know, one do we want to explore and that I like staff to bring it back and present all those options and the public you'll hear as well. Then And we'll decide what to do with that $9,400,000 if that's okay with you. Okay.

Councilman Just one comment on offering rebates and down payments and all that. That's part of the problem. The other problem, and I think we're all aware of that, is the lack of inventory. It's just a lack of housing that's available for this. A lack of condos that are for sale that people can afford. So it's not a simple answer where we could just come back and say, we're gonna give everybody $50 or a $100 to buy a new place. Well, even if we were to do that, there's nothing available. So it's not a simple issue.

Okay. So I think we're completed on this item. We wanna bring councilwoman Constantine back onto the dais. And I suggest just a few minute of a reset bio break. We've been going since four and we'll be back in five minutes. Bye.

Mr. Mayor, I'd like to have to hear council member canceling her explanations before we go to our regular meeting. Okay.

I'd like to call the meeting to order. Got your attention. Good. Good. So luck of the Irish. Go. Welcome everyone to our meeting. We got off a little bit late of a start, so it's now 06:49PM as we begin open session. As always, we want to start with an invocation. And so if you could all please rise, and we welcome pastor Brent Wagner.

Thank you. It's an honor to

be here.

Let's pray. Dear Lord, we thank you so much for this wonderful city that you've given us. Thank you for its citizens, and thank you, Lord, for its first responders, police officers, fire, and ambulance. Lord, thank you for them. Bless them, Lord.

Thank you for our school teachers. Thank you for our businesses, Lord, that make this such a great community. And we thank you for this city council, for their leadership, their integrity, their character. And Lord, we pray that you give them utmost wisdom as they make decisions on our behalf to keep our city strong, to keep our city safe, to keep our city healthy and moving forward into the future. Help them as they discuss very difficult issues that face cities from time to time and give them the knowledge that they need to make good decisions.

We also think of our troops that are serving overseas and those that are even in wartime even now. We pray for the safety of our men and women who are serving our great nation, and we are so grateful for the nation in which we live in. We ask all these things in Jesus' name. Amen.

Thank you, pastor Wagner. Next will be the salute to the flag.

Council member Glenn Grandis. Rise if you're able. So at this time, we have troops who are overseas. We have people in harm's way that are are there to protect us and to our way of life. So when you when you pledge allegiance to the flag tonight, think of them, think of their families that are here, I ask that we do it with gusto tonight to show our our solidarity with those that are overseas. And with that, I pledge allegiance to the flag

of The United States Of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you.

Thank you, council member Grandis. Next is City Council successor agency housing authority roll call.

Council member Bui. Here. Council member Constantine.

Here.

Council member Grandis. Here. Vice mayor, vice chair

Harper. Here.

Mayor, Chair Keenan? Here. All members are present. Thank you.

I want to announce any reporting out of closed session. But before that, we also want to have a statement from councilwoman Constantine on the reason for the recusal on the last, presentation.

Sure. Absolutely. And it's unfortunate some of the, people in the community are not here to hear this directly. Hopefully, we won't have anything going through the rumor mill. So one of the property owners on the item that was for the study session one that started at 05:15 this evening had to do with Los Caballeros.

Well, my long time partner Antonio Catini, he does tile setting and so there's no contract at this point, but it would be to do tile installation in a property that Wallace Roedecker owns in the city of Huntington Beach. He intends to sell it. There's no contract as I said. So I recused myself because as pastor Brent Wagner was talking about integrity, character and making decisions, I felt that that was the absolute best thing to do. So I'm hoping there's nothing gonna go through the rumor mill. Attorney for the city, Collin, does that suffice?

Oh, that does. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Sure.

Great. Thank you so much.

Sure. Of course.

Next, any supplemental communications to clerk Miller?

Yes. There was one item in regards to item number six. A revised staff report was given to council and staff. It was just a correction on the date as to when the first item was heard back in February, not March.

Thank you. We've received that. Appreciate that. Next we'll move to city manager update. City manager Lee.

Yes, mayor, city council. Thank you so much. I just have one. I just want to ask the community and the audience come and join our team. We have the following job openings available. So if you're looking for a job opportunity, visit our website at www.fountainvalley.gov. We have dispatcher position, lateral firefighter paramedic, maintenance worker one, two, and three. We have police officer, lateral academy graduate police recruit recreation leader. That's it. Thank you so much.

Thank you. City manager Lee. Back to city attorney Burns for a report out of closed session.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. We didn't have any reportable action, although I will note that in in one of the discussions, were talking about initiation of litigation, and and it was discussions of enforcement against group homes that were operating against our ordinance. And just I wanna note for the public the efforts that council is going through to try to make sure to protect both the people in the group homes, but also the the single family character of neighborhoods. And then council did pass a very comprehensive ordinance to balance both of those interests and protect both of them.

We just received a letter from, HCD challenging provisions of our ordinance, numerous of them. I'll just hit some of the big ones. Grandfathering, separation, definition of single housing unit, parking requirements, permitting requirements, reasonable accommodation requirements, and a whole host of other things that they are challenging about our ordinance. So those those are gonna present some challenges as we work with our with our our regulatory partners up in HCD. But I want you to know that council is is doing what it can, and we just are running into some some roadblocks that we have to work with our partners up at HCD through.

Thank you, City Attorney Burns.

Could you just for the public define what HCD is? I think the public may not

I apologize. Know

HCD is Housing and Community Development. It is the state housing agency that oversees, regulates the state housing laws, specifically those vis a vis cities and cities provision of housing, affordable housing, and and those types of things.

Great. Thanks so much. So for mayor's update, first, I wanna say happy Saint Patrick's Day to everyone. The luck of the Irish is in the room. Isn't the the green decoration that the staff presented a very fitting for tonight? My mom gave this to me. It says, kiss me. I'm Irish. And so I said, I'll wear it tonight.

I'm not gonna kiss you.

Mister mayor And your mother. I I just wanna go on record that I am a Fountain Valley High School baron, baron for life. Barons do not wear green. That's Edison color. Oh, boy. Oh, boy.

Well, and and and to kinda enlighten the spirit, we have a vice mayor whose first name is Patrick. And

I was named after Saint Patrick's Day because my birthday's in March.

Fantastic. My middle name is Patrick. So there we go. We've got we've got we've got the

So both mayors and vice mayor are saint.

Thank you. Alright. Moving on to the mayor's update. So I hope you can join us tomorrow morning. Fountain Valley Chamber of Commerce will have their ongoing Fountain Valley Connect. I will be the featured speaker. We'll be talking about the state of the city, which was a big hit last week, and just continuing on with a lot of the the great work and the themes that we're we're rolling out this year with the city. We're also gonna do a pretty deep dive into a lot of the developments that are going on, some of them that you're seeing and some that will be forthcoming. So hope hopefully, you can join us. That's gonna be at the Ayers Hotel right next door here at 8AM tomorrow.

We also have a blood drive that's gonna be at the Fountain Valley Sports Park on March 20. So sign up for a blood drive. It will run from 09:30 to 02:30PM. It'll be at the Fount Valley Sports Park. You can use the QR code to schedule your appointment or walk ins are welcome.

All blood donors will also receive a limited edition Lifesaver League pack a bowl, duff duffel bag while supplies last. Saturday, we're gonna try something new. We're gonna do what we're we're calling the mile with the mayor. And if you wanna join me and anyone who wants to go for a stretch on this Saturday morning, we're gonna meet at the steps of the of City Hall here, and we're going to follow a little bit of a route. We're gonna go north to Memorial Care.

They've got a nice track. It's it's all part of the health and fitness vibe that we're running this year. And we may even get a little bit of a Rocky theme at the end. So, you know, a little bit a little bit of that feel feel good at the end of the at the end of the walk or run if you wanna run. So that's gonna be this Saturday here 9AM.

Also, supervisor Janet Wynn, that same morning, host a community health care and social services expo. That's gonna be actually from 9AM to 1PM. So I'm literally gonna go from the walk to the Freedom Hall, so that'll be fun. Come out and enjoy free services. It it really has a lot of different items, but it's titled Community Healthcare and Social Services Expo. So hopefully, you can join us. It should be a lot of fun. Strategic planning session will be on March 24. That is scheduled from 8AM to 3PM. That will be at the Fountain Valley Recreation Center where we usually meet on Brookhurst and Heil.

We will work on the three year goals and identify the strategic objectives for the next few months. The meeting is always open to the public. Meet the Fountain Valley Bunny, participate in egg hunts, inflatables and so much more on Saturday, April 4 from 8AM to 11:30AM. Play games to win tickets for a chance to win an egg hunt basket. And I wanna personally thank the community sponsors, businesses, current and former elected officials, especially senator Strickland and especially supervisor Janet Nguyen, all my colleagues really for a successful state of the city.

That was an amazing event. We got to enjoy an evening with great food and local local entertainment from Fountvel from Los Amigos High School and music from Fount Valley High School. My daughter surprised me with a dance at the beginning. So the the three girls did a a really cool number, And we had sort of a Angels baseball theme throughout, so it was a lot of fun. And that concludes my mayor's update.

So thanks for everything you do to to help the city engage in a lot of fun activities. It's that time of season to to celebrate spring and and life here in the city. So on that, I'd like to move into presentations. Thank you to those who have been waiting patiently for so long. We're now gonna do it. Thank you. Thank you. I know you still have time to get out and enjoy your Saint Patty's Day celebrations later. So I'd first like to start with recognizing three Eagle Scouts. And so I'm gonna go down to the podium, and we'll go ahead and continue on.

Alright. So I'd like to bring up Anton Lipinski, Isaac Nolan Liu and Alex Nguyen. We're going to be celebrating their obtaining their Eagle Scout rank. And what I'd like to do is also bring up Scoutmaster, if you don't mind. I need a little bit of help with the certificates.

Okay? Okay. So maybe maybe let's do this. Alright, guys. So first, we want to celebrate Alex Nguyen. He designed

what? Raise your hand.

There we go. Okay. Alex designed, built, and painted directional signposts for Fount Valley High School to serve guests during campus events. Anton Lipinski. Alright.

Anton cleaned, painted, and built shelving for the Fount Valley High School cross country and track storage unit. And Isaac Nolan Liu. Isaac's project was demolishing a worn down wooden gate and replacing it with an ironwood and metal gate for Hosen House, a nonprofit organization hosting performances for professional pianists and young artists to kick start their career. So how about a round of applause? And I'm going to start with presentations, certificate of recognition.

And so I'll read one and then we'll pass out the three. And then we also have recognitions from our supervisor. So so this is for Alex. The city of Fount Valley proudly acknowledges your remarkable achievement in attaining the rank of Eagle Scout. This honor symbolizes perseverance, integrity, and a profound dedication to serving others. We commend you for this outstanding accomplishment and wish you all the best in your future endeavors. So will we pass that to Alex?

Thank you. Congratulations, Alex.

And we'll pass this to Anton.

Great. Congratulations, Anton.

Alright. Alright.

And this is for Isaac. Okay. And from supervisor Wynn's office, I would like to read it's it's just short two two paragraphs and and this is really a big deal. Eagle Scout is huge, and so it's worth a little bit of celebrating and kind of kind of diving in a little bit to how hard they worked. So all three of you earned the rank of Eagle Scout, the highest honor awarded by scouting America by demonstrating exceptional leadership, character, and dedication to service.

To achieve this distinction, they progressed through the ranks of scout, tenderfoot, second class, first class, star, and life, earned at least 21 merit badges, and led a meaningful service project that positively impacted their community, which we got to highlight right now. This certificate of merit recognizes their commitment to helping others, perseverance in reaching this milestone, and their contributions to building a stronger community. They are commended for this remarkable achievement, and I look forward to seeing how their leadership and service will continue to shape the future. And that is from supervisor Janet Wynn. And so this is for Alex.

This is for Anton. And I also wanted just to mention that we have three certificates from the supervisor for the prior Eagle Scouts. Okay. And so we're still celebrating Matthew Lai.

We have him right there.

Where's Matthew?

Hey. Hey. Okay. What why don't you come on up?

I know you're not in uniform.

It's a hot person. Alright.

No problem. No problem.

You again.

And then Arthava. We got this. Arthava. And there's actually two fur.

Two fur. Yeah.

Yeah. Ricky Sweet was the other one.

Okay. So we we will fix this one. So Ricky Sweet. So how about a round of applause? We can get some pictures.

And if the city council can come down and we'll join the the Eagle Scouts.

Before we come down, can we have each one of the Eagle Scouts share us a story? How long did it take you to the journey you have accomplished today? How many years or months?

Six

years? Six years. Yeah.

Since 2019.

That's how long he was in the troop, but he also did Cub Scouts prior

to that.

And did you start as a tiger? Yeah. So basically since first grade. So started in first grade, always.

I started in elementary school as well. Going from scout to boy scout and then to how many years should we be here? How many years?

Ten years. Ten years. Ten years. Wow.

Yeah. I've been in it since Cub Scouts since I started when I was a wolf. And, yeah, I'd say right around ten years. Ten years.

One years. I mean, you beat the record six years. Congratulations.

They started as Cub Scouts. So actually, Isaac and Anton started in first grade, and they made it all the way up through now, Isaac is a senior. Anton's a sophomore. So Isaac's been doing this for about twelve years. Anton's got about ten years in and Alex started in in second grade. Right? So so he's got about eleven years in. And Matthew, I think, is in the same boat. Started as a as a first grader Yes. And then made it all the way up through and he's a he's a junior in high school now.

So Jeff? And they all are Fountain Valley residents and all go to local schools. They all go to fountain valley high school. So Don't all bearings. Don't wear green. No. I'm sorry. I gotta be honest.

So maybe he wants to come Yeah. Come around a

little bit. Yeah.

Okay.

Okay. Next, we're going to be recognizing March as Women's History Month, and I would like to call on Margaret Roche Roche and Diane Shoutsik, co presidents representing the Fount Valley Women's Club. And come on down. We have a nice it's really kind of a proclamation, so I'd like to read. So City Fount Valley twenty twenty six Women's History Month.

Whereas women of every race, class, and ethnic background have made historic contributions to the growth and strength of Fountain Valley in countless recorded and unrecorded ways. Whereas women play a critical economic, cultural, and social role in every sphere of life in Fountain Valley, and particularly important in the establishment of early charitable phil phil philanthropic and cultural institutions in our city. Women have served as early leaders in the forefront of every major progressive social change movement. And whereas women have been leaders not only in securing their own rights of suffrage and equal opportunity, but also in the abolitionist, emancipation, industrial labor, civil rights, and peace movements, which have created a more fair and just society for all. Whereas despite these contributions, the role of women has consistently been overlooked and undervalued in the literature, leadership, teaching, and study of American history, and it is therefore fitting that we recognize their numerous accomplishments.

Now therefore, I, Jim Keene, mayor of the city of Fountain Valley, on behalf of the city council and really the whole cities behind you, do hereby proclaim the month of March 2026 in Fountain Valley as Women's History Month. Let's let's clap for that. So I'd like to present this.

I'd like to thank Fountain Valley for this. Thank you. I'd like to thank Fountain Valley Council for this. This has been a really wonderful recognition. We are a club of about 89, 85 strong women who are committed to raising money for scholarships, helping out our community and just being there if anybody needs us. So we really appreciate your efforts. Thank you.

Neighbor.

It's still there.

It's on the street.

Oh, or maybe it's going. I

I like code enforcement.

Alright. That was a lot of fun. And next, we are going to recognize our very own Jenny Worsham, community services manager for being installed as the California Parks and Recreation Society president for 2026. The city of Fountain Valley is excited to recognize Jenny Worsham, community services manager on her installation as the next California Parks and Recreation Society president. Jenny was installed last Wednesday in Long Beach at the annual CPRS conference, which I think might have been the most fun conference, most energetic conference I've ever been to.

Just great. Our team is extremely proud of this accomplishment for Jenny, which is a career highlight as she has been actively participating in this organization for over two decades. CPRS is the prominent organization for the field of parks and recreation in the state of California. CPRS believes parks and recreation are essential to vibrant, healthy communities. Since 1946, our nonprofit organization has been uniting this is CPRS.

They have been uniting over 4,000 passionate professionals and partners to advance the field by creating community, advancing the profession, sharing resources, and fostering professional development. The city of Fount Valley wishes a successful year as president as of this outstanding organization and thanks you for making Fount Valley such a great place to live, work, and play. But that's not all. We're gonna bring up community services director, Rob Frizell to continue the celebration.

Thank you so much mayor. It is beyond exciting to recognize our very own community services manager. I'm just like I can't even get across how big of accomplishments accomplishment this is to be the California Parks and Recreation Society president. It is a really big deal. Thank you so much for council member Ted Bouie and Mayor Jim Keene for being able to join us that morning.

I think you can see the importance, the energy and everything that we do in our communities for Parks and Recreation. But our team is really proud and so I wanted to bring up our community services supervisor Jake Hopkins to share a little excitement for Jenny. And we we have for everyone.

We just want to make Do

I live right here?

We just

wanna make sure that she knows that we are fully behind here all year long so we have some special gifts for her in her presidency. First, they kind of already talked about it, but the card framework is everything that we do. It's about creating community, advancing the profession, sharing sharing resources, and of course, helping people develop and grow in the profession. And these were much larger at the conference. They're about eight or nine feet tall, but we couldn't unfortunately bring those to Jenny. So we got some smaller ones made for her as well to put in her office to remind her of what she does, plus she loves surfing, so why not surfboards? And then in this little basket behind her, we made her some custom stationery that talks about how you are making waves so she can connect with members across the state and really continue her brand through through everything. And we

just want her to know that

we are fully behind her and so proud.

Wow. Thank you so much. I want to say thank you to City Council for all of your support. I really appreciate it. Maggie, the entire city team and especially the community serve awesome community services team. I am super honored to be the president of CPRS and I'm looking forward really forward to the year ahead of leading the organization and traveling the state and being with my CBRS family. So thank you guys so much for all of this. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you.

Okay. So now we're going to present to you from the City Of Fount Valley In recognition of your installation as the 2026 California Parks and Recreation Society CPRS president, congratulations on behalf of Thank you. The city of Fount Valley. And that supervisor Wynn also sends her best congratulations and your dedication to parks, recreation, and public service. The achievement reflects exceptional leadership and a strong commitment to strengthening communities and enhancing the quality of life for Fountain Valley.

Congratulations from the County of Orange and supervisor Janet Wynn. Okay. One more time, folks. Come on down.

And Mayor if I may, Jenny had a few more things to say. I believe you saw the special recognition we had for one of our team members at the Parks and Rec Commission meeting or excuse me, the Parks and Rec Conference. It was one of the most special things as we a small city in Fountain Valley continue to show our strength with having a president. We also have had Orange County d 10 presidents. So Jenny has some exciting news to share.

So along with everything else exciting that was going on last week, we were actually all surprised including me when another one of our awesome team members was recognized by our former president who was the outgoing Cindy Bagley with the Sydney Rohnert Park. She presented a president's award to our community service, one of our community services supervisor Jake Hopkins. Now Jake gets to come stand right here. I'm not going to hand you anything, but you got to come stand up here. Jake is a past president of our District 10 and he's the current vice president of our recreation society or recreation section.

Jake is a quiet leader who leads with all of his heart, who is the most one of the most humble people that I know. Cindy's words were that she met him, knew of him for a long time, finally met him this year and saw just how selfless he was and how everything he does for the profession and he does for CPS was just beyond words. So she presented him with this president's award, and we are all super excited. So we wanted to share that with you tonight. So thank you, Jake, for all that you do. You make us proud here in Fountain Valley. Great job.

Did

council want to make any comments or staff and any comments in in recognition of Jenny?

Sure, I just want to add my congratulations to Jenny. We appreciate all you do here for Fountain Valley. You've been a just a sunshine ray of sunshine since you joined us a couple of years ago. We're well deserved. Congratulations Jake also and to the entire community services staff. You're really one of the one of the famous things about Fountain Valley, not just Foodie Valley, but what what can I say Parks Of Rec Valley? There we go.

Thank you. Councilman Grandas. Yeah.

I just wanna thank you guys too, the whole department, but you guys especially, such great leaders. And the events that we have in our city, you guys care so much. You work so hard to make it fun. You know, you really make our events fun, all of them, whether it's concerts in the park, Easter egg hunt, the camp everything that you guys do makes Fountain Valley a better place. And for that, we are very thankful. So thank you. Alright.

Councilwoman Constantine?

Sure. And I echo the words of my other fellow council members. Thank you so very much, Jenny and Jake. Much appreciated. Well deserved. Thank you again.

Councilman Bowie?

Yes. Well, definitely Jake is very humble. He's my neighbor. I know him. He's very humble. And Jenny, love your red shoe you wore that day.

You didn't wear it today.

You had a great shoe. Well once again thank you both for what you do to the community.

Great and I also want to just thank community services there's so many events going on all of the baseball softball leagues are in full swing, soccer's kicking in soon and there's just so much happening and that wouldn't be possible without community services. They really are the heart and and just take great care of of all of those groups that come into our our jewel of Mile Square Park. Thank you so much for that. Alright. Okay. Next is First City Council successor agency housing authority public comments on unscheduled matters. Do have any requests?

I have no request to speak. Thank you.

Next is public comments on scheduled matters only. Do we have any requests to speak?

I have no request to speak. Thank you.

Okay moving into consent calendar items one to five will be approved simultaneously with one motion unless separate action or a discussion is requested. Is there any request to pull a consent item?

I just want to put item number two to make a comment. Okay.

Any other items for pull? Okay hearing none so we'll have seeking a motion on items one, three through five.

I make a motion to approve items one, three, four and five.

I'll second.

Items one three four and five passed five zero.

Okay so item number two is pulled by councilman Bowie. Floor is yours.

Thank you, Mayor. So I just want to congratulate congratulate our staff. I was looking at the report and on the P Card, I'm not sure what they did, but they their spending was amazing compared to what I've seen in the past. Just give a little flavor in the room, so on the last report in January 20, the spending on the P Card was $62,000 On February 17, the PCAR report was $47,000 But on this March 17, the report is only $22,000 which is great. I'm not sure, maybe there's less conference going on, but spending like that, it's great when we see it's much smaller number.

Just want to give a shout out to the staff and all the executive team. Thank you for keeping the number as low as we can. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

So seeking a motion on item two.

I make a motion to approve item number two.

And second. Please vote.

Item number two passes five zero.

Next is administrative items. Item six, adopt revised city council policies presentation by city attorney Colin Burns.

Great. Thank you, mister mayor. At the at a prior council meeting, council staff brought forth a updated policy manual. Before that meeting, requests were made for additional policies. So at the end, one of the additional requests was that staff would look at the extra policies and see if there were additional changes that needed to be made. Staff has done that, and we are bringing that to you tonight. There were requests a through f. So what I did, the best way to organize them was to just kind of take right from the request letters and go through each one. The first request was a public records and retention policy. It's staff's recommendation to not add the public records policy to the council policy manual.

That is because we have a very comprehensive public records policy. It was done by the secretary of state. And because of how quickly, public records retention changes, we update it periodically. And if it became a council policy, it would get really bogged down in the readoption process each time. So it's we want this we would hope that this policy would remain flexible, nimble, and able to be changed quickly. So because of that, we're asking that it be an administrative policy adopted by the city manager rather than elevated to a full council policy. Next request was for updated parliamentary and procedures. This was a four part request. First was rules for handling disruptions. The Brown Act contains three sets of rules for handling disruptions.

One is clearing the the room. Another option is removing the disruptive individual, and the next is removing a disruptive teleconference participant, a Zoom bomber, that type of nature. In in in line with the request, we have added three we we added three specific sections to the council policy and procedures manual dealing with each one of those three items. It basically tracks the language of the statutes verbatim. Next request was disruption of service.

This is a policy that we're required to have anyway. By 07/01/2026, we did prepare one of those policies. It requires a city to provide for two way telephonic or audio visual platform. The new product requirements SB seven zero seven require that we have a disruption policy. The disruption policy that staff is recommending is that if there is a disruption of service, we take a one hour break. During that one hour break, we contact the IT department. They make a good faith attempt to restore the services. After an hour goes by, the council can reconvene the meeting whether or not services have been restored. We also did put in the policy that during the break, council may recess to closed session. Next, is a policy on behavior cross talk and decorum.

We just put in some some suggested rules that say a council member should not speak while another has the floor. That's because the the parliamentarian, which is the mayor, typically controls the meeting. So these would be some suggested decorum rules to reference. Finally, the last request was for a policy on serial meetings, texting, and digital communication. Serial meetings, which is your chain or hub and spoke, those violate the Brown Act.

So we put in a specific provision in the policy that states that those violate the Brown Act. We also noted that texting and private chat during meetings should be avoided. Request c was commission and committee appointment. The city currently has a policy on commission and committee appointment, so we weren't sure if council wanted us to prepare a a new policy on that. If council does provide direction, we'll prepare a policy and bring it back at another study session.

D is city sue city use of social media platforms, private social media platforms, not the city's website. And it was specifically noted that there should be a provision that prohibits liking social media posts. While we have done discussions, memos on not liking social media posts, it was thought that it was a good idea to specifically place that in the policy. We've added a provision to our council member use of social media policy that prohibits council members from liking social media posts of other elected officials to comply with the specific language of the Brown Act. E was civility and behavioral standards for elected and appointed officials.

We did provide some, suggested language. It is also more of a a should policy because, again, council's a self regulating body, and it just provides for things such as treating others with respect, avoiding personal attacks, things of that nature, things that council already does anyway. Finally, f second to last, complaint process and enforcement. At the last meeting, we did put in a, suggested policy for complaint processes and enforcement. If council would like anything changed on that, we're we're happy to make any changes.

The last requested policy was, use of the city attorney. Looking at this policy, the the only example that I had heard of was and I couldn't cite the specific city, but I usually hear of council requests going through the city manager. It's that way for staff. We do have a unique provision in Fountain Valley that says that while the city attorney reports directly to the council, the city attorney actually reports directly to the city manager in regard to interactions with staff. That's interactions with staff, not interactions with council members.

So we are sensitive to the fact that city attorney reports to council. So to to, you know, kind of balance those two, the policy I wrote was that council members can call the city attorney just as normal, but if there was something that required research or written work, those requests could be made to the city manager, and that would keep the city manager informed and able to control, the workflow. But, again, any any, suggestions, revisions are are welcome from the council on this. And that is the end of my presentation. I'm available for any questions.

Okay. Thank you. Any questions from council?

Yeah. Actually, there's something missing, and it was something that we did talk about in the February 17 meeting. It was something I mentioned. It's number item seven specifically. It's because I'm the one that's on social media a lot and it says when discussing upcoming official business, seven point one says, any social media post must be a share of the official city post and not provide an opinion in any manner on a matter to come before city council.

Part of that, did agree with obviously not to to provide an opinion and I never do. However, we had agreed and I do remember at least one council member agreeing that we could remove that any social media post must be a share of the official city post. Because like the city will put out the city council meetings, but I put in a lot more information, emails for us and just some other things that the city doesn't do for whatever reason. And it's not right or wrong, it's just I don't want it to be where we have a policy where I'm constantly breaking the policy because I'm putting out information. So what can be done about that?

Vice Mayor Harbour?

Yeah, I agree with council member Constantine. I would support taking that out. And then I would also as far as not liking comment another post, I think that's I understand it's meant to not inadvertently violate the Brown Act, but I I would support taking that out as well.

Well, if I may also and it's not just a question, I mean, or a matter of liking because we know there's other,

I guess

let's see what the word is. There's other options beside like, like dislike and I'm trying to think maybe love or whatever. So I think it would be inappropriate for any council member to click the like, the dislike, the horrified, the sad option, whatever because that would be to me inappropriate.

It's actually a Brown Act violation to do it. So we already go to the Brown Act. So I think it's redundant.

Well, that's fine too.

I thought it was only a Brown Act if more than two council members were in the in the chain of in the post?

You know, that is reasonable and it is logical, but that is not what the rule says. And I think the Brown Act has a couple of holes in some of these new laws they put down. But you're right. I I looked at that too, I thought how could it it is just for one one person. I guess the thought is maybe another council member could look at it or or or I I don't know why the Brown Act was written the way it was, but it does it it would need to be something within the

So it it would only be a I mean, what if you know, so I I can't like my mom's picture. Is that is that what it's what it's telling me?

Or It's only between two electeds.

Yeah. Oh, two electeds. Got it. Okay. So if an elected makes a comment, then I got okay. Alright.

So if it's your birthday, I can't say happy birthday social media.

I mean, you might be able to because that's outside the subject matter jurisdiction of the council.

Okay. It his birthday. Right?

Well, I don't

have any

idea why. Yeah.

It's kind of a so alright.

So as far as deleting that part about the social media post that needs to be a share of the official city post, do we have to show

this I source of guess

you wanna add in members of their own body regarding city matters or something. Okay. Maybe throw that

The reason I had put that in in the last time we did policy updates, and you guys all voted for it. But What? Was just so that it wasn't, you know, it wasn't literally you have to just repost what they have, but it's the information provided by the city. So you're not providing different information than what the city is providing. That was the intent of it.

Councilman Buoy?

Yeah, agree with that. My concern is it's not the posting. I mean as long as it's informational, it's not a problem. But if you put informational and then you state your point indirectly, that's become a problem because you you give an opinion. Sometime it could be before the meeting of the subject matter, so that's an issue.

Well, I personally have had people that have been very had strong feelings about whatever the topic is, and they say that I put in there an opinion, I might find it because it's not there. And then they drop it, of course, because it's not there. You know, it's always what the the topic matter is, if there's a meeting, when the meeting is, the date, the time, location, maybe how you can send correspondence if you can't come, that kind of thing. It's just

I think we're all saying that's fine.

Right. Yeah. I think

we're saying that if it's not Sure. It's not a matter it's not an issue.

Well, I

mean and I understand it's not an issue, but this got past me the first time, and so I want this to be the last time, and I'd like this to be removed. It's fine not to have an opinion. I get that, of course. I support that, but can we please get rid of the the first part of the verbiage here officially?

Yeah. I support that also. And and and I also just want us to be careful not to not to have a policy that would have a chilling effect

Yeah.

That would impact any of the council's first amendment rights. And so we wanna stay clear of that as well. I think that that that fits the spirit and the Sure.

And the waters.

So are you are you do you do you need to are you making a note of the change there?

I am. Yes. There's two changes that have been requested. Delete the first part of that sentence and the others to make sure to clarify the liking to show that it's another elected official in about

some

of Great. The subject matter

And I think just as a practical effect, you know, I probably spent a little bit too much time on Instagram, you know, you can just tap for a like, right? In in Facebook, you actually have to go to that graphic or that icon and actually click on the like. Right. So I just have to be careful on Instagram because you get so used to just tapping and like, okay.

Gotta gotta hold back. I didn't realize you were so cool.

I thought Instagram was the young people.

I'm the old Thank you. Facebook. Okay.

Thank you. Any other questions, comments on policy? Counsel? Yeah.

I on the city attorney, I I I'm not comfortable with us having to go through the city manager to contact you. I I think we can contact you direct, but the purpose of that one was setting a budget that we need to set a budget per council council member member on how much is being spent. That doesn't mean that the council member can't go over. It means that if the council member is getting close, that if they wanna spend more on the city attorney, then it just needs further approval by a majority of council.

I like that.

Vice Mayor Harbour?

Yeah. For me, I I I don't I don't think that's appropriate. What I would say is though that if there's if a council member is requesting something more than a, you know, than a short answer that the city attorney would, guess, maybe notified or you run it run it by Maggie or something or I don't know. Know, they I I don't know how you do it. But if if if you're getting a request from a council member that seems excessive that somehow it would be regulated. But I don't I don't think having a a dollar budget is the way to do it.

Yeah. I don't I don't think it should I don't wanna put Maggie in the middle of making a decision whether we could go to the city attorney. I think all of us should be allowed to go to the city attorney as as often and as we want. But like anything in life, there should be a budget. And if it's budget, then if you need more budget, you just get approval and justify like this is why. And if it's valid, then absolutely.

Councilman Murray.

Yes. Well, first of all, to the reference to the new policy, let's say if we were going to approve the city managers for the approval, well, there's going be a problem in term of governance because the city the city attorney represent the city council as a governing body. Therefore, the city council are making the policy making authority. The city manager is administrative operations. She does not have that authority.

So the city attorney is the legal adviser to the City Council and the city as an entity. Those I understand being fiscal responsibility aren't anything like you said. Yes, I agree to that aspect. Unfortunately, at this point, we do not have a contract attorney on salary. He's on contractual, meaning we pay him by the hours.

So that's why we're having concern. Perhaps we should have a discussions, perhaps hiring members are permanent. So therefore, we do not have a concern about capping. Now if you're capping to individual council, whatever that dollar amount that may be, I will strongly recommend the city to look into further because there might be some statute issue problem because now you're restricting certain elected official to do seeking legal advice should he needs to. You can cap a dollar amount.

Let's I'm giving a like a scenario, dollars 200,000. And if we spend beyond $200,000 the city attorney I mean, I'm sorry, city managers come back report, hey, our council, we budget for this year $200,000 We are going to bypass, we have four more months left. That is acceptable. But once you put a cap on individual, there might be some issue.

I I The aggregate.

Yeah. I understand. The only concern that I have with that, I think we're kind of in agreement, is that let's just say your scenario 200,000, if one council member spends 195, I'm just throwing out numbers. This isn't real. This is not real numbers.

It's much lower. Then it only leaves 5,000 for everybody else. But if we do it judiciously and say 40,000 per council member times five is 200,000, then, you know, when one council member is getting to the point now the mayor may need more, you know, because they do more stuff potentially. I I just think it's more equitable to do it equally. And then and again, it doesn't mean like, we're getting into February and Colin says, you know what, council member a, you're at, you know, 35,000, you have five left, then all we have to do is bring it back and say, okay.

We need for this is all legit and no problems. Go ahead and increase the budget. But we just don't have endless pockets to spend as much as we want.

Councilor Mubay.

Yeah. I agree with you. So perhaps maybe we should start exploring hiring of the city attorney on the salary rather than so that way you don't have to because by the point you're saying is my concern is now the legal advice given to each elected official will be restricted as it shouldn't be. It should be only restricted as a global, not to individual.

Well, it's not restricted. It just means you need to come back and get approval for further funding. But it's not an unlimited budget for the city to spend on attorney services.

But let's say the budget for the year is $200,000 and you have not we have the other two councilmen have not used it. So we have not exceed the budget for the year.

Understood. But if one council member in my example again at 195 that doesn't leave others to do it. It's just it's just putting a some rails in place to make sure that we don't and I'm not looking at any individual council member, but just make sure that everybody spends within set means. Vice Mayor Harbour?

Yeah. I don't know. Colin, do you have any help us out here. Can have any any ideas for this practice? Love you, Colin. Don't worry.

Yeah.

If if you if you don't have anything, then that's fine too. But I'm just kinda

I struggled with putting any kind of a limit because of the because of the relationship. I struggle with this policy. I struggle to look around for something that would work. The reason I came up with this is because I I had heard that that was how it was done in other places, but I understood the I understood the the issues in putting any limits on council. I I suppose what we could do is instead of putting a cap, maybe there could be a a periodic report that just says here's where we're at for each.

And then if anybody wants to bring it up, they can bring it up. But then council can have an an ongoing report of how things are going just on a monetary basis. And what I what I would do. It's it's gonna be difficult for me to attribute something to a council member. You know, it's a lot could get attributed to the mayor that should not be whoever's in the mayor position just because that is the person who's leading the charge that year. Some things could come to a council member that the council member didn't start on the council member's own. So we're gonna have to deal with some of that, but I think this council is very reasonable. And if there's ever an issue that's ambiguous, maybe I could just explain it in my report and say, we have something that probably doesn't belong to be attributed to this council member, but here it is, and you can take a look. And if there's an issue, any council member can call it up, and we can we can discuss it.

I'm actually okay with that. If you wanna provide a report, let's test it out and see how it goes. And if we see an issue still, then we put restrictions on. And if there's no issue, then we continue.

I think it would be great to do reports. What kind of timing? Are we like quarterly or Quarterly would probably be.

Yeah. I think quarterly is reasonable. Yeah. I like it.

Maggie, do you have any thoughts or summaries?

Quarterly report for city council to assess and evaluate. And if there's any current concern from city council, we can bring forward for discussion.

Okay. That's fair. Yeah. And I

think the added benefit is it puts a little daylight on just how much we're spending and gives the public an idea of, okay, where do we stand on that? And I think it's all positive.

Alright. Well, let's test it out.