City Council - Regular Meeting

Before I check with public comments, city clerk Miller, any request to speak?

I have no request to speak on study session items.

Great. Thank you. So we'll move into item one, city council expenditures, legal conference, and city manager authority contracts presentation by finance director Ryan Smith.

Thank you, mayor, city council. This study session item is a request to bring information regarding city council expenditures and city manager contracts authority. So city council expenditures that information that we've gathered is for city council travel expenditures as one part. And these are the last the current fiscal year and the last full fiscal year. So fiscal year twenty four-twenty five, which is July 2024 through June 2025.

And then fiscal year twenty five-twenty six year to date, which is July 2025 through January 2026. These expenditures are for meetings at various meetings and conferences. And the types of expenditures include registration, lodging, travel and meals. Some of the meetings conferences that have been attended by city council include ICSC, League of California Cities, the Association of California Cities, Orange County, and Sister City Summit. This is kind of small on the screen, but was included in the packet.

And these are the expenditures categorized by council member according to which event or conference or meeting that was attended. So for the last fiscal year, full fiscal year 'twenty four-'twenty five, we had a total of 19,403. And the current year to date, we are at about 7,600. We also looked at brought got information for city council supplies and this were the same time period. This was fiscal year 2425 and fiscal year 2526.

And these are generally expenditures for City Council Chambers, events and City Council meetings. This again is the data that was included in the packet and we had about $4,004.69 in fiscal year 2425 and year to date, we're at about 2,205. We also had a request for city council attorney related expenditures. The way that city attorney time is tracked to invoice, it's done in blocks of time. And the blocks of time can contain various different work efforts by the city attorney.

So really, it's given the current practice, it's not we're not able to really track, give a true accurate allocation to any each individual council member and put a dollar amount on it, you know, accurately and fairly.

I have a question for you because on we were provided that information with the caveat that it's there are areas where maybe it's overlapped just a little bit. But in general, I think it gives a flavor and I would like the numbers to be provided.

Okay. I don't I don't have the numbers.

I I have the totals. I was able to run and what I what the way the billing works is as the finance director was discussing. I'll I'll add a ticket for work done per per day per matter. So say it's the police department. For that matter, it might the work might be talk to council member Jones about a bicycle safety event, work on a motion to discover confidential officer records, and meet with sergeant Smith about a traffic stop.

That might be a three hour ticket. And the council member Jones' portion of it might have only been a small amount for one telephone telephone call, point one or point two. So with that caveat, that's how the tickets could be pulled. I was able to do a search that says all tickets with each council member's name, and I I have the results of that. Like I said, the results won't be dollar for dollar matters that are money that's attributable to the council member because it pulls the entire ticket, not just the sentence that's attributable to council member Joan Smith or whoever it is.

The the totals based on just the pull of the council member's name with the whole tickets was for and and I'm using last year's titles because I pulled it for 2025. So at the time, it was council member Harper, 9,000, council member Grandis, 7,000 and change, council member Constantine, 15,000 and change, vice mayor Kanean, 3,000 and change. And mayor Bui, 52,000 and change.

How does that compare to prior years? Because I looked at the prior year numbers and they were significantly lower, especially two years ago.

The total billing amounts? Yes. Total billing amounts, I believe, have gone up, but I don't have that information in front of me.

Actually, Ryan, you provided it to me. I could look it up. It's significantly more than what we've had it. Like, I think it was, like, 250,000 in a year or two years ago, and it went up to, like, almost $455,100,000 within the last year.

Are you are you referencing total? Yes. Attorney? Okay.

I think those are the numbers you provided to me.

It may be that the

I think that's close. I'm rounding because I don't have it right in front of me. But I do think it's I do think it's telling.

What exactly do you think it tells? Can you be, are you implying something? What's your point?

I think what it is, is that there is a trying to think of the right words.

Well, think without without the without the attorney sort of giving us more an analysis of the total bill. You know, maybe there was a big case that came up in the year. You know, there's really I think it's hard to draw any conclusions from the fact that our attorney bills went up. So I I I would caution you to, you know, think carefully before you next speak.

Well, thank you for your kind advice there. But the details of every meeting was provided. So I know exactly every meeting that he billed for over the last twelve months or so or there in that period and what it was charged for exactly. So my concern, getting back to my concern, is that there is too much communication between a council member Bowie and the city attorney going outside the normal course of business. If you look at what a normal course, it's more than a 150% more than the rest of us combined, and that is an issue.

And I think it needs I think it's distracting, and I think it has cause for concern, especially when I went back and I can't say what the specific items are because there's according to our city attorney, client, attorney privilege with that, But it is definitely a distraction to staff, and that's just what he's billing, not all the staff time that goes in to answer certain questions that do not need to be asked.

Councilman Buoy? If I may respond to what the City Attorney is saying and to what Councilmember Granted is saying. First of all, reference that you were saying that Councilmember is spending too much of attorney time. At the end of the day, regardless if what I'm asking or spending time with attorney, if it's related to city business or legal matter, I'm entitled to all those time spent, regardless if you like it or not. As long that the issues that I'm spending time with the city is not conducting to city business or concern reference to how we conduct business.

I believe as a councilor, each one of us is entitled. It is not at your place to determine what is the proper amount. I'm elected as an individual just as you are. And during the mayorships tenancy, the level engagements depend on each one of us. You don't want to engage a lot during your mayorship, that's your choice. I was engaged a lot. I have a lot of questions. Those questions needs to be hashed out and that's why there certainly is there to provide some level of clarity and confidence moving forward. Anything that I do is within the legal means. Am I correct? And all this discussion has always been retained to the C business.

The issue that I have is that when you ask a question, you get an answer and I could see based on the descriptions that you don't stop if you don't get the answer that you want to hear versus what they're giving you, and you continually continually go after staff, and you continually go after the city attorney to try to get the answers that you're looking for.

Can you give an example?

I wish I could, but it's Okay. I mean, I wish believe me. I wish I could.

Okay. Well

I was advised by the city attorney not to bring up the specifics even though I desperately want to.

Mister mayor, I have a question.

Yes. Councilwoman Constantine? Generally,

I mean, we're supposed to go to the city manager first, and then if this with whatever, and then if the city manager has us contact the attorney for the city or staff or whatever, Is that not how we're supposed to

facilitate communications with the attorney for the city? I think from a legal standpoint, city council work with the legal team directly. That's my understanding. So, yeah, you don't have to go through me to interface with legal. Mhmm.

In general, I agree with councilman Bowie. You should be able to go to the city attorney. But when you look at something that was thought was a problem without really knowing if it's a problem and then getting the numbers and saying, yeah. This is a major problem when you're a 150% more than the rest of us combined, $52,000. It's never ever any of us in the history of the city been close to that. It's a problem, and I think what we're asking you kindly is to back off a little bit on using up all the time of the city attorney.

Are there any other questions for Director Smith? Okay. Keep going. Yeah. Keep going. Thank you.

Yeah. Just want to while we're on the subject of no, I'll let you finish. Sorry. Okay.

So the next item that we were asked to pull information for was regarding the city manager contract signing authority. This is something that's in the municipal code that authorizes city manager to award contracts on behalf of the city when the total contract expenditure is $50,000 or less. And this is very common among cities to set a threshold for the city manager signing authority. And really, it's for a number of reasons, but operational efficiency is one big one. We also maintain all of our purchasing policy when this happens.

I know a few years ago, there was an Orange County registered article that they looked at the signing authority of all city managers in Orange County. And I think 20 of the 34 cities in Orange County were at $50,000 or more for their signing authority at that time. So within the within the city council packet, I've included contracts, during this current fiscal year, that'd be July through current, that have been awarded, with the city manager signing authority.

Can I have questions on that one? So I was looking at the I was hoping to get the because this is projections, But the actual contract right now from 2025 and there are some contracts that I'm not completely fulfilled yet. It's just on the book. That's projections. But what was the one form twenty fourtwenty five?

For the last fiscal year?

Yes. Because you show for council member, but you didn't show for a CDE manager for twenty four, twenty fifth.

For the yes, we only pulled the data for the current contracts that we have that are out. It possible to

pull And the 2420 on this existing 2526, some of this contract are actual contract, but can you I think it should have another column. What is the actual expenditure of that contract?

Sure.

Because this is the contract, but what is the actual expenditure? I think it's missing that Actually,

threshold as

if it's under $50,000 why do you want to see it?

Because it's misleading to say that it's $50,000 contract, but actually we spend less.

But you were asking this is she had this is what signature authority she

has.

Understood. But we kind of want to know how much do we actually spend on this contract. It's information. There's nothing wrong with that.

It's in the financial statements.

No. But if you provided this, we should have a column next to it. It's more clarity.

Well, it's just a lot of work for staff again.

Is it a lot of work?

It'll be just a bit of work to be able to pull together the actuals and put it in a column like this, in a table like this, but it's Okay.

Since you my colleague is telling me that I spent too much of city staff with attorneys. So I want to bring because you have this slide up here reference to the Exhibit A. And all of us have gone to Japan. And when I was doing the numbers and we all received the same travel, We spend the same amount of time. But why do you did you receive I'm going put it to Councilman Greenhouse because your number came out give and take about 1,200 more than all of us.

Did you receive special service or accommodations? Why was yours $1,200 more than all of us?

Can pull up that slide? So I'm sorry. So I see you're at 5300 and I'm at 3400.

You're two Sister City.

I'm sorry, you're 2,000 more than me. And then in the following year, you're 600 more than me. And you're questioning what now?

The Sister City Summit.

Oh, sister city because we we were potentially Secora City was a potential sister city for us, and I stayed on longer because I went up with city staff to actually meet with the city that reason the whole reason we went there. Whole reason we went there was to get a sister city. I even asked you. I said, Ted, why don't you stay longer? Why don't you go up and visit the city with us? That that's the real reason we're here. And you said to me, understandably, I've got kids. I got family. I can't stay that long. I was like, fine.

So I I provided my time to go up to visit Secura City, and I was the only one along with Maggie and the Neagles, miss Steve and Nina Neagle went up there with me as well. We met with the mayor. We went and we visited a factory that makes sake really interesting. They do it the old traditional way. We visited a rice farm that produces the rice for that.

And yeah. I mean, that that's it. And and quite candidly, I paid out of pocket a lot of money because we were not reimbursed for meals. And my wife went along too. I paid for her travel, her hotel. Actually, not the hotel because she stayed in my room, but I provided all the transportation for her and all the meals as well. So that that trip out of pocket for me was very expensive.

Thank you for clarifying that. Do remember did ask to all actually, you did ask all of us and the city you referenced is to stay to Tokyo, right, to go to Tokyo because we originally we go to Osaka and it was two weeks before departures. You say, hey, it would be wrong to go to Japan and not visit Tokyo. It's like going to France, but not visiting Paris. But it's like two weeks, we already purchased ticket, airplanes and hotels.

We can't just hop and change flights and I think. My question would be if that was to stay back another city to the idea is to get to Caesar City, then why was this discussion presented by our city manager to all of us? It sounds to me that there's only discussion with Councilman Granges. I was not informed that we're going to stop, we need to stop by Tokyo City.

Ted, you're worried about $1,200 that you spent $52,000 on an equity?

No, no, no. The point is the clarity in the communications.

You tell I can't answer that for you. I I did talk with everybody beforehand and said, I think it makes sense that we visit the city that we wanna be potentially sister cities with. I asked council member Constantine. I asked council member Canine. I asked you, and they were not able to go, and I was. Which is, like

I said, two weeks before departure. It's too late.

My point is No, no. Was not two weeks before depart. Regardless, you're worried about 1,200

No, no, no. It's 52,000.

You spent 150% more. If I also, if you look at this, you spent way more than I did on we have a we have a budget of 5,000 per council member, and I spent 3,100. You spent 5,300.

As the mayors, you should go through this event. There's no none of those event that you don't go.

Yeah. I'd like to moving with with Ryan as he's waiting patiently to present. We can circle back on

that. Nice try, Ted. Nice try. As usual, you're going for a gotcha moment. Basically, I'm saying it's just you're pathetic.

All right, Ryan.

Please continue. I've concluded my presentation, so I'm available for any questions you may have.

Any other questions from from counsel?

I I guess the the point I I was is trying there was at that time for the extra another stop in Tokyo, there was no communications from our city manager to us. If that was the case, and which is okay. The point I'm not trying to say is not the 1,200. The point I'm trying to say is there was an additional plan to travel that was not communicated to us. It was only communicated to you. That's how you say that I went there, we're looking for 60 6. You said earlier.

You're incorrect. Okay. You're incorrect. There

were conversations, FYI. There were, There were.

As I said,

from I tried to get you as the mayor I tried to get you as the mayor to participate, and you were not willing. You didn't even meet with their mayor.

It was embarrassing. I guess we have a different understanding because I talked to you about it, and we didn't get that communications.

Okay.

This is this is, you know, this has got to stop. This trying to gotcha moment. It's just got to stop. It's getting old.

Okay. So city staff is seeking council direction. I think we've heard the the numbers. Vice mayor Harper?

Yeah. No. I I don't think there's any direction, but Yeah. I think we're I think we're receiving file. We're good. Thanks. Thanks.

Okay. I'm sorry, Ryan. You had to go through that.

Okay. Next is

Was there a public comment like that? Was there a session?

There was no public comment. There were no public

comments before that. Yeah.

Okay. Let's move on to item number two, City Council policy update presentation by City Clerk Miller.

Thank you, mayor, members of council. This is the annual update of city council policies. What I've provided to you in the packet is a list of eight policies that we were looking to either revise. There's five revision, two that would be brand new policies, and then a removal of one policy. In addition to that, we did receive an additional additional requests for council policies.

Label is a through f, I believe, that are attached to my memo. Those were received by council member Bowie. Didn't have enough time to incorporate them into the policies themselves, but I'm happy to make comments on those after as we move through this list. The the under the revisions categories, the policy for recycling and conservation efforts, is under public works. Really, was just one item we removed from that that under section two a a purchase office paper containing a minimum of 25% post consumer waste.

Public Works Department recommended we strike that. So that's for your consideration. And then with the next two, the sidewalk inspections, repair and or replacement and the tree maintenance removal and reforestation, again, those are both public works. The only thing that is changing is the diagram in the back. You'll see one diagram has a red line through it And the on the backside, you'll see there's a new diagram.

They're adding in, a section on the right there, trunk protector to be polyethylene, Arbor Guard, or equal. So that was the addition to those two policies. The city council policy on social media, those updates were provided from the city attorney's office. I'm happy to review any questions you might have on those, and I might defer to the city attorney on that. The last revision, labor relations with city employees, we simply updated the resolution number.

That's the more current resolution. So that's the only change. And as that resolution changes, we'll be updating the policy, and it would come back to you as a revision. I'm going save the additions for last. They're the more complex ones. The removal was the military lead policy. We're removing it because we have a r the administrative regulation ten twenty one that addresses reclassification requests. Therefore, we have a council policy and an AR policy both saying the same thing. So we removed the council policy just to remove the being redundant on that. The additions, the first one is titled Complaints Against City Council Members.

The city attorney's office provided that document. And then we have a language translation policy. The language translation policy is simply used to guide during council meetings if somebody has a request. We do have on the agenda that if people have special needs and need something provided from the city, we ask seventy two hours in advance. This just further clarifies the need for language translation policies and any assistance that might inquire or what they might inquire about and how I would go about getting the help that they need.

Do want you me to continue and go on to the portions that council member Bui brought forward or

Might be a good place to stop. I'll open it up for council questions, clarifications. Councilwoman Constantine?

Yes. I have one item about the social media. I think this got past me before previously, but it's item seven seven point one. It says any social media post must be a share of the official city post and not provide an opinion in any manner on a matter to come before city council. I agree. City council should not be giving opinions about city matters. It's the first part of it. Any social media post should be must be a share of the official city post. So here's the thing. I post the about various meetings, city council meetings, planning commission meetings, strategic planning meetings, but I post and there's nothing against what the city post.

I just post a lot of information, council member emails and how to watch on YouTube and, a link to the agenda and some other things and sometimes include some of the graphics like I did with the study sessions. So to say that because it's an official business, the planning commission meeting, city council meeting, to say that we must share the official city council post, personally, don't agree with. I don't think that that's in the absolute best interest of the community.

This is a council policy.

So I guess I would kinda defer to the city attorney. So if we took out must be a share of the official city post, just say any social post post must not private an opinion not provide an opinion in any manner. Alright. I'm looking at section 7.1.

Yes.

Of that. What's your what do you think about about that? I think it's I think it's best, you know, good practice to not reinvent something that's been posted by the city or, know, I know you share the agendas and stuff like I think that's sort of what the complies with the spirit of the policy. But the way it's written is I I could be, you know, could be perceived as a little restrictive.

Well, mean must is must. That's why I'm bringing it up. I have no problem not providing an opinion. I've never provided an opinion after I got sworn in as a city council member of court.

You haven't provided any opinions?

Actually, I think in the past I I think what you're sharing now is a little different than what you were sharing in the past. And I think by sharing the details of the meeting, I think that falls within the allowable use of it. I think if we start getting into, for example, Charter City, you know, do we you know, we shouldn't be or we should be or any topic such as that. That's where before we have a public hearing, we hear the comments and we do that's where it's gotta stop. So I think it's it's I think if we go to not provide an opinion, I I think that's fine.

Yeah. But I I think sharing what the city does is the best way to do it. I mean, we put this on in the policy last time and nobody even commented on it.

Well, because I didn't see it quite frankly.

Well, read your agenda.

I I it now it

I know there's a lot.

But the fact that this says it must be a share.

Let's say, how about if we say any social process, replace must with should. Yeah. And then just make it, then delete be a share of the official city post and so it's a, so read any social post should not provide an opinion

or something no, must not provide an opinion. I agree with the fact it must not provide. I would include must not provide an opinion because to me it shouldn't be.

Thank you, Mayor. I think the rule reference to the social media post, it's actually pretty clear right there. It's already laid out in 7.1, right, not to provide an opinions on any matters, especially on a matter that is going to be come before council member. I think when I was looking at the council policy, the issue is there is no ramifications if a violation has occur and that's the lacks of ramifications. What are we going to do on the council member?

That's why I have proposed some issues, how we address. And we have this policy, but if someone violate, there's no ramifications, an exit point in other words. And what I provide in here is an exit point, what should we do instead of wait until when an incident happened, then we look at each other council, okay, how do we want to address this council member? It's tough for all of us. If we put black and white, these are the consequence that can happen should you violate a policy. I think that's where we're at.

But we're but there's a disconnect here because the issue at hand is any social media post must be a share of the official city post.

That's what the issue Anderson, so basically you want as an individual council member that you want to be able to share, which is No, no, no. Is that what you're No, no.

I want to be able to write you go to my Facebook page right now, you'll see about today's meeting. It has the information. It has our city council email addresses. It has the link to YouTube. It talks about when the next meeting. It talked there's a link to the agenda center. I post the graphics. I post the meeting Each page of the meeting minutes from the last meeting and then each page of this current agenda. The city post doesn't have it. And again, I'm not saying anything about the city. I'm just telling you

I I don't think anybody has a problem with that. That's sharing city information. That's regular city information.

No. But it says any social media post, meaning it would says here, when discussing upcoming official business, any social media post must be a share of the official city post.

Agreeing to take that out? We're

Well, no. We haven't.

Yeah. We

do. Did we officially agree? I don't think so.

I'm okay with taking that out.

Yeah. I mean, if that's okay.

Leaving the opinion part Yeah.

That's fine.

That's only one portion of it.

Yeah. I think with let me suggest with regards to the ramifications of violating this policy or any policy, I think that's a separate discussion. I don't think it needs to be included in the social media policy.

That's correct.

Agree. So we are removing the word must and replacing with should.

I'm good with that.

I'm not gonna get in trouble with that then.

Are

we I still

don't think with what you've been doing, you would get Well,

mean, technically, it

doesn't have to and get rid of the be a share of the official city post. So just it should be any social post should not provide an opinion.

Okay. I like it.

Yep. So removing must be a share of the official city post and that's all being removed.

Yes.

Any social media post should not provide an opinion in any manner on a matter to come before City Council. Perfect.

So my question is to I'm sorry, may I? Yes. Thank you. So my question to staff would be, are we going to bring it back the items to reference to incorporate additional red line versions? Because obviously, didn't have enough time, but the city attorney didn't have enough time to write the proper way how we incorporate this to the existing ordinance, you need more time on that or

This is a study session. We're giving feedback to what to bring back

to us. I understand. I'm just getting clarification.

You're referencing from your email as letter D, correct? Incorporate that into the

That's what I'm asking.

Where is that though? Excuse me.

Male It will be page two of the memo on the back Maybe side.

I missed it. Okay.

Oh. Male What page number are we on?

The study session memo doesn't have a page number, but I'll pull it up here for you.

It does have page number. Page two on the upper right hand side. Yes.

Oh. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. On

your monitor, that's the beginning of the policy. It continues on.

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Part d is a

total So I I have half. I'm sorry. I have a question on 1.2 as long as we're here. When you say the city shall, you mean the city itself and not employees of the city, just to clarify? Employees of the city can do whatever they choose to that are private citizens.

On this part d? One one point two.

One

point The city shall not manage, moderate, or operate any private social media group?

Correct. That's the city itself as a city entity, not if, say, you have a private social media group, you can because you're as a individual, as long as you're not representing the city on it.

I'm not exactly sure on the intent as this was provided by council member Bouie.

I'll maybe clarify.

Thank you. Absolutely. As a private citizen, you could do anything you want. Okay. But as once you're on the clock on the city, there's none of that activity.

Okay. I agree.

Yeah. I would say that there's there seems to be a lot of overlap between your policy and the existing policy.

I kind of like dive into the policies. I didn't see make sure there was no overlap. It sounds like there's overlap, but actually there's not. And the city attorney will have because he didn't have enough time to look at and he will verify if there's any overlap and make sure he takes it out.

And and some of these might be better for an administrative regulation rather than a council policy because they deal with city employees, which often city manager does the administrative regulations and deals with violations of those, so there might be a better place for it.

I don't know if council wants the city attorney and I to come back with

Yeah.

A revised version

Yes.

Further revised version of the city council policy on social media looking to incorporate sections one through 6.3 that was provided by council member Bowie?

Yeah. And I would I'd suggest that no no offense, but I'd I'd ask for you to review the policies and either if there's some that you think are would recommend, we'll put them in. If some you think are not good to put in or some version, then provide us that direction as well. I appreciate the effort you put in, but Sure. Same point. Yeah.

City manager Lee.

Yeah. I think that was the clarification I was looking for from city council based on what is being proposed by council member Bui. Is there anything that you totally support for staff to kinda dive a little bit deeper? Or you want us to take everything that's being proposed and then expand on it? That's the clarification.

Yeah. Think my reps would have you guys look at it. If if they make sense, then, okay, we can put them in. If there's something in there that you're not sure about or you want more guidance from the council, you can sort of at the next another study session say, hey, we see this, but it could cause a problem with this law or there's some ambiguity. How do you know, what do you guys think? So, and I think, you know, my personal feeling is I don't want to kind of over try not to over regulate everything. So you know its policies are useful but at the same time their policies there you know I don't want to get in too much into the weeds.

Would like to comment on a, the public records and records retention policies. We do have a records retention policy. It changes. It changes a lot. If we were to make it a city council policy, you'd be seeing the public records and record retention policy quite often. So between myself and the city attorney's office, it's reviewed frequently to update it, if we'd be okay leaving that alone so that we don't have to bring it to you five, six, seven times a year?

Which is I'm okay with that. The only thing that we just have to be careful that we have to be in compliance with the state with all the SB regulation that's out there, which is right now currently there's nothing on the book that talks about that. Perhaps you're practicing, but it doesn't reflect on We the

have a 40 some odd page records retention policy that's updated frequently by the city attorney's office.

Didn't see that in ours, so that's why I'm pointing out, right? Because you asked us look into the policy if there's any change and I didn't see those update. That's why I point those bills that was approved by legislator.

Okay. Any other questions, comments from

council? No.

Okay. Well, thank you very much, City Clerk Miller, and we'll look forward to the revisions and bringing that back to the council for finalizing. We have about twenty minutes before we start, so we'll take a break and see you back at six p. M. Thank you.

Point and flex. Working the shin and the calf muscles. We need to target these muscles because they help with foot clearance So we don't trip on throw rugs, stairs. Going up a step. Going up a step over a curb. Right. Breathing. Neutral spine. Two more. Point, flex, point, flex, and hold. Hold it right there. Now grab the band with one hand. Hold it back by your hip of your outstretched leg. Sitting up nice and tall, we're gonna press that outstretched leg towards the bent leg. Okay?

If you have a bad hip or knee, you might not be able to get the same range of motion as the rest of us. So squeeze it in back to center. We're trying to strengthen inner thigh muscles that help with lateral movement. Side to side movement. Squeeze it back. Just a little movement. Controlling it. You should be feeling it right here in your upper inner thigh. Good. Good. Keep breathing. Regular breathing is important. I love these stretch bands because it's just

you can take them with you when you go on vacation. That's right.

And you have five or 10 Last one. Pounds of resistance. That's right. Now take the band and cross it over to the other hip. Sit up nice and tall. Now we're gonna press away from midline. Again, using caution if you have a bad hip. Away from midline. Good. Outer hip. Again, lateral movement, side movements, we have to do from time to time, don't

we? Yeah.

Good. Keep breathing. Most people fall to the side. Do. A lot of people fall to the side.

Good. Two more. Last one and let's switch sides. Take the band and wrap it under your other foot. I like that one.

I do. I think these bands are just wonderful.

Okay. Bring the band back and hold it by your rib cage. Let's press that foot away. Down and back. Okay? And I'm not letting go of the band because that lets go of my wrist resistance. I keep the resistance by holding the band back my my rib cage. Press. Release. Press. Press, release. Last one. Hold it. Three two. Point and flex. Point. Flex. Point. Keep the resistance. Three.

Good, four, five. Relax your shoulders. Five, six, seven, eight, nine, And hold. Oh, we're gonna go to 12. Eleven and twelve. Now hold. Three two one. Hold the band back by your hip, and we're gonna squeeze towards midline, towards the bent leg. Here we go. K.

One two three. Keeping the band in the same location, five six. Good. Seven eight, nine, ten, eleven, and 12. Okay. Take the band, cross it to the other hip now. Okay. Outstretched leg is going to go away from midline. Again, use caution if you have a bad hip. Here we go.

12. You may not be able to go out away from midline, so you might just need to do the leg press, which we did originally. 456789. Good job. Sitting up tall. Ten eleven, and twelve. Alright. Now let's take the band, wrap it under our thighs. We're gonna give it one tie right behind the knee. We're gonna target those muscles around the hip.

Okay? We'll wait. Sometimes it takes a little longer for some to tie it, and that's okay. Alright. Sitting up nice and tall is important.

And and don't lean back. Don't lean back. I I was thinking of saying that from every time we sit up, sit

sit up

straight because then you really keep working those tummy muscles. That's right. Those muscles of the core. Let's press it away. Out and in. Two. In. Three. Good. Four. These are abductor muscles on the outside of your hip. Outside of your leg. Supporting the hip. Out, and in. Out, in. Out, in. Out. Let's do two more and we'll hold. Out, in, out, and hold. Feel that working on both sides. And release. Okay. Let's take a break. Put our bands on the back of our chair. Let's do some tilt backs for some abdominal work.

Coming forward in your chair. If you'd like cross your arms over your chest, you're welcome to do that, or place them on your thighs or your chair. Simply go back and come up. Straight back, though, is important. Okay? You wanna have neutral spine. You don't wanna throw your neck and your shoulders around. You wanna control it from your core. So it's tilt back, squeeze up. Tilt back, squeeze up. Tilt back, squeeze up. Good. Targeting these muscles right here. The abdominal as well as your lower back. These are very important muscles to help with our posture and our breathing. Good. Tilt back. Squeeze up. Tilt back. And let's stop right here.

Let's do one set of bicycle scissor kicks or knee lifts. Okay. So we're tilting back, holding onto the chair if we need it, and we're gonna show different options for the final abdominal work. Here we go. One, two.

We'll go to 10. 345678910. Great job. Let's take another quick break, get some water, hydrate ourselves, and we'll be right back to start our cool down. Welcome back.

Let's begin our cool down part of the routine. Let's take a deep breath in up. Big exhale out. Inhale up. Exhale out. Let's do that one more time, and this time we're just gonna reach over to the side, stretching the muscles down our rib cage. Widen your base of support if you need to. Hold on to the chair or your hip. Hold it there. Keep breathing. Back to center. Let's reach up and over as we exhale. Nicely done. Hold it right there. Good. Come back to center. Take your hands. Clasp them together if you can, and press them forward. Rounding your shoulders slightly. Feel that stretch come down from the upper back, down the arms.

Hold it there. Keep breathing, and release. Now take the hands behind the back. Your hands together if you can, and if you can't, take your hands so that they're the palms are going towards the ceiling and open up the chest muscles. Okay? Pulling those arms together. Hold it there. Great job. Take your arm and cross it over your body. Pull it down and across, squeezing that arm towards the chest.

Feel that stretch come from your upper back down your arm, stretching out your shoulder. Let's switch to the other side now. You're breathing regularly, holding it across the chest. Relax the shoulders, and release. Okay. Tricep. Tilting the arm towards the ceiling. You wanna press on the soft tissue of the back of your upper arm so the elbow goes towards the ceiling. Stretching out your tricep muscle in the back of your upper arm. Hold it there. Now take the hand and walk it up the back. See how close you can get so that your fingers try to touch. And if you're not very close, that's okay. Just keep working on it. Hold it there, and release.

Now let's do the other triceps. Elbows towards the ceiling first, pressing up on the soft tissue of the arm. Hold it there. And now walk the hands up the back. Working on our upper body flexibility, which is very important.

So you can comb your hair,

brush your teeth, put on deodorant, get to zippers in the back of your clothing. Put your bra on. There you go. Now let's do trunk twist. Okay? I it's really important that you start from neutral spine. And as you turn, the whole hip, neck, shoulders, everything goes with the turn back to center. And turn, back to center. Turn, back to center. Turn, and back to center. Great job. Let's have a seat. Sitting down, I want you to extend one leg out, heels on the floor, toe to ceiling. Nice and tall. I want you to think about lifting your sternum up, and then I want you to hip hinge forward.

Reach forward. If you'd like to add a little reach, that's okay. As long as you're not rounding forward. Down towards the ground. And release. Let's switch to the other side. Nice and tall. Tummies in. Relax the shoulders. Sternum lift. Press that sternum forward. Hold it there. You should feel that stretch coming up the back of the leg right now. All the way into your lower back. Hold it there. Add an arm if you'd like. Supporting your weight by holding onto your thigh or the chair. And release. Great job. Now, if you can, lift one foot up over top of the other leg.

If you have a bad knee or a bad hip, drop that foot down closer to the ankle. Okay? We're targeting the muscles around outside of the hip, sitting up nice and tall. Neutral spine. Tummy's in. Lift your sternum. Inhale. And now press. You should feel that extra stretch come across your hip. Hold it there. Keep breathing. Nicely done. And now, relax. Let's switch to the other side. Same thing. If you have a bad knee or hip, drop that foot down lower along the lower portion of your leg. Sitting up tall, sternum lift, and press. Hold it there. Feel that stretch? Yep.

Good. It's important to stretch. Yep. Yep. When we increase our flexibility, we decrease our rate of injury. So it's important to include stretching and flexibility exercises. Good job. Okay. Now, turning to the right side of our chair. We're gonna extend one leg behind us, holding onto the chair so that we don't fall off. Okay? And you're gonna extend one leg back, And we're gonna press that heel down towards the floor, getting that hip flexor and quadriceps stretched out. What can I do if I can't

move around in my chair?

Well, you can scoot over to the side of your chair and extend the leg back if Okay? You'd Sure. Alright. Extend that leg back. Press it down. Hold it there. Good job. Feel that stretch coming from the top of the hip all the way down the front of your leg. Yep. It's important you feel it where we're trying to get you to feel it. Right? Otherwise, you're doing the exercise wrong. And release it. Switch sides. Okay.

Wait till I get over here. Okay.

Tall posture. Leg is behind you. Toe is on the floor. Press that heel down. Nice and tall. Keep breathing through the stretch. Feel the stretch come from your hip flexor down the quadriceps. All right. Great job. Coming back to the front, sitting square in your chair, nice and tall. Let's lift up our right ankle, rotate it, add some wrist rotation, sitting up tall. Our backs are not resting on the back of the chair. Let's rotate the other way. Good job. Working on ankle mobility, wrist mobility. Let's lift the other foot up now. Let's do the other ankle. Rotate. Add some wrist. Good.

Tummies are in, and let's rotate the other way. Great. Okay. Both feet on the ground. Let's take one hand out in front. Pull those fingertips back towards you. Turn the hand now. Pull the fingers back towards you. Palm is facing outward. Hold it there, and you're stretching out muscles in your flexors the flexors and extensors in your arm now. You should be feeling that. Other side. Fingertips towards the ceiling. Gently pull back. Great job. And now turn those fingertips down, palms out. Pull back. Very good. Let's take a deep breath in up.

I just wanted to say before we end how important exercise is to the body. It's our responsibility, not your doctors, not your families, yours. And thirty minutes of continuous activity every day can increase your digestion, eliminations, sleep, mood elevations, and you bring more oxygen to your brain. Besides the things, wonderful things it does for your body in health and in muscles and strength and endurance. That's right. So stay with us. Don't give up. Keep on moving.

That's right. Let's give one last inhale up. Good points. And a final hug. Give yourself a cut. Thank you for joining us today. I'd like to give a special thank you to Vicky and to Juanita for joining us. Stay tuned for a Feeling Fit Club health highlight.

Feeling fit, going there for exercise and using muscles that I don't use around here. I just feel good after I exercise for an hour.

That's it. Some older adults are afraid to exercise because they're afraid to fall and that fear factor is huge. So we work with that fear factor in creating security, we help people to gain confidence, we teach people how to move, we teach people safely how to move.

I vacuum and I dust and I wash dishes and I wake leaves. I have jillions of weeds. I'm able to bend easily and I think the exercise keeps my body planned so I can do these things.

Make sure you're breathing okay don't hold your breath.

We have the greatest instructors and she explains the exercises what they do for our bodies and emphasizing stretching to keep us from falling. All these exercises help. I never use weights for my life and I'm using these little one pounders but they do the job for me. I think I've lost a couple inches since I've been going to this class.

Nice and tall.

I've met a lot of nice, super people there, people who are interested in keeping fit. You need it to keep your body healthy and to keep your blood circulating. It becomes a habit. The first few times it's an effort but after once you get it in the habit and you feel better for the day then it gets you energized and you like feeling good.

Go ahead and call the meeting to order at 06:01. We could have our seats and

There's us. There's us.

Welcome to CityFound Valley, our meeting for 02/17/2026. We'll start with an invocation from pastor Kenny Panas. If you could all please rise, and we will begin with invocation.

Good evening, everybody, and council. So twenty five hundred years ago, God instructed his people living in a foreign city with these words, seek the welfare of the city and pray to the Lord on its behalf, for in its welfare, you will find your welfare. Jeremiah 20 nine:seven. Lord, we ask for your wisdom to rest on this council as they make decisions that shape this community. Give them clarity and complexity, integrity in their leadership, genuine care for every person in the city.

May Fountain Valley be a place where people thrive, and may those who serve it do so with humility and purpose. We ask this in Jesus' name. Amen.

Thank you, pastor Kenny. Now if you please direct your attention towards the flag. Place your right hand over your heart for Okay. We'll move into city council successor agency housing authority roll call. Council member Bowie? Here. Council member Constantine?

Here.

Council member Grandis?

Here.

Vice Mayor, Vice Chair Harper? Here. Mayor Chair Keenan? Here. All members are present.

Thank you. Next, we'll announce any reporting of closed session items. Attorney attorney Burns. Thank you,

mister mayor. In regard to item number three, report out. On November 18, the city council hired outside counsel Hensley Law Group to investigate complaints received by the city about certain comments made at the November. The investigation cost $27,545. Outsides council concluded that there was no violation of city policy.

Thank you. Now we'll move to announcement of supplemental communications.

I have none.

Thanks, City Clerk Miller. Okay. We'll next go to our city manager update, city manager Maggie Lee.

Yes. Thank you, mayor and city council. Before I introduce our new police chief, I wanted to go ahead and personally thank our interim police chief, Rod Cox. Wanna appreciate him for all he has done for the community, the department since January 2025. He made positive impact not just today, but into the future.

He add a lot of humor in our daily routine and sometime laughter that is so hard my stomach hurts. I myself, my executive, and I'm sure city council and community appreciate everything you've done for us from the bottom of my heart, and we really appreciate you. And hopefully, we will continue to maintain contact and so forth. And so and then I also would like to go ahead and introduce our new Police Chief, Craig Hararia. And Craig will actually have us swung in next Wednesday, February 25 at 3PM.

So you will have an opportunity to meet our new police chief at a later date, and he will provide and share his experience in his profession. We are very fortunate to have Craig here in our community, in our organization. And I want to thank our Fountain Valley Police Department for your patience as we went through a long process. And I have to share, Craig was actually part of the process in the first round, but family matter kind of transpired, so he held off. And he revisit Fountain Valley because he has a nexus in our community, ties in our community.

That's the reason why he expressed an interest and continue to be interested in the city of Fountain Valley. So we are very fortunate to have our new police chief who has close tie and probably vested in the City of Fountain Valley and we appreciate his consideration and we look forward to his leadership and continue the contribution that has been provided by Chief Rod Cox. And I will go ahead and allow them to make a comment if that's okay. Mayor and city council. Yes.

Well, you, Maggie. I appreciate that. It just lends to your brilliant decision making to hire the two of us.

And what I'm finding

is I've been trying to find a place in this world in retirement. And I think I just discovered that I had a a comedic talent, so maybe I'll become a comedian instead of the direction I'm thinking about going. So I appreciate that. That being said, this to me has been just an extraordinary experience in not only the law enforcement profession, but just in in general as a manager and a professional and coming to this community and and enjoying it so much that I don't wanna leave. I told chief Heredia that he's gonna have to drag me out by the by the ankles, and and I'll go kick and scream in the whole way because I've I've had nothing but an amazing journey here.

I've learned a ton. I've met a lot of good people. The the community of Fountain Valley is just supportive of not only the city council and the city in general, but the police department. It's just been an extraordinary experience and one that I'll never forget, one that I don't wanna leave. I know I have to. I'm leaving. The cops aren't here to support. They're here to drag me out. But I I will say that what makes my job easier is the support that I've witnessed from the city council and the the support you've given the police department since I've been here. So on behalf of the police department, I can't thank you enough for that.

I I've had the best experience even from the Cypress experience. So thank you for your support of the police department, the support of law enforcement in general. You guys are amazing people who step up as volunteers in a thankless job and sometimes a rough job that, you know, takes a lot of heat. So thank you for doing that. Maggie, thank you for giving me the opportunity.

It's been amazing, unbelievable. I hope you still reach out and make me some Vietnamese food. I look forward to that. I did wear my Vietnamese colored tie, by the way, today too since yeah. But, finally, the the police department, I hope this city realizes how blessed we are here in Fountain Valley with the men and women that work for the Fountain Valley Police Department from records up through the staff, the work they do day in and day out, their police work, their investigative skill rises to the level of any agency that I've seen.

They're talented people who care about this community and come every day and put in a lot of hard work and effort. They attend the community events, and they're always trying to make the organization better. I'm not saying they're perfect. I'm not saying they're without the family dysfunction because that stuff happens, but what an amazing group of women and men that work for the Fountain Valley Police Department at all levels. So if I could, the ones that are here, if we can give them a quick hand.

My life has been made better by this experience. And again, I thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. And then, I'll tell you that I put my full confidence in chief Heredia. He's got the background. He's got the pedigree to, do this job as it should be done. Phenomenal choice in the hiring process. And I know you just hired the new fire chief too. I was part of that process. You got two great chiefs that are gonna do an outstanding job. I'm confident in that. I've seen other chiefs. They're gonna knock it out of the park. So good for the decision making on that end. Thank you.

I I appreciate everything I I got to experience here. I wish everybody, godspeed and bless Fountain Valley because it's been unbelievable and a great place to be and a great play a nice place to live. So thank you.

Well, I would just like to say I am completely honored to have been selected. This is this is a this is a career that I've fallen in love with from the time that I was five years old. And my uncle served with the Riverside County Sheriff's Department, and I always looked up to him as a superhero, and I wanted to be like him. And I also remember the first time that I was introduced or at least my first memory of Fountain Valley, And that was as a kid going to Mile Square Park watching my dad play in an adult softball league. And later, playing sports there myself and then watching my own children play in softball and baseball tournaments at the park.

And, I have family members who live in the city. I was married in this city. All three of my kids were born in this city, and I have tremendous respect for for Fountain Valley and the people who live here and the people who serve. And, you know, mister mayor, city council, I will do my absolute best to serve this city, and and I think that's what you that's what you deserve, and that's what I promised today. But again, I I would also like to thank chief Cox.

He has, you know, taken time to sit down with me and to help me be able to hit the ground running. I've had the opportunity, although today is officially my first day, I've had the opportunity to meet with many of many members of the department already. And and and chief Cox is absolutely right. This is a group of professional people and they do this job because they care and they love it and they wanna serve. And and my job is to, to support them and encourage them and to make them feel valued and appreciated and respected along the way.

And I'm excited about this opportunity, and I will keep my my comments short tonight because I'll have a little bit more to say at my swearing in ceremony. But again, thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak tonight. And and thank you very much, Maggie, for making this selection process enjoyable. I appreciate that. Thank you.

Oh, sure. Vice mayor Harper.

Thank you. I just wanna say thank you to chief Cox. You've really been a huge asset to Fountain Valley and appreciate your time here. One of the things that happened under his watch is we added some people in the police academy. And I think we I think we got seven or eight new recruits from the academy under his watch.

And that was, I think, a tremendous they're gonna be great future officers in our police department. And I also wanna take the opportunity again like chief Cox says, thank you to all the police officers and and people that work here in Fountain Valley. We're so lucky to have you working in the city and your dedication and professionalism is greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

I may I also may comment is thank you, Chief Cox, for your service. Although it's short, we wish you whatever you decide moving forward with long locks and prosperity in your life. Thank you.

Councilman Brandes. Welcome Chief Heredia to our team. And this is really what we have here as a team. And, I think you're really gonna enjoy being here. It's a lot of hard work, but, you've got really good people. And chief Cox, thank you so much for what you did. As an interim chief, you could have mailed it in a little bit. You could have, you know, did the the minimum and you didn't. You did the the absolute maximum, and we appreciate that. And you are now forever part of the Fountain Valley family. So with that, our community foundation's looking for volunteers third Thursday of the month. You're welcome to attend.

Oh, he's probably He's not already got me in the RSVP program.

I love it.

Well, want to say thank you so much, Chief Cox, and welcome, Chief Heradia. We're very, very excited to have you on board. And thank you, everyone. We really appreciate our first responders.

So I'm just going to go ahead and wrap it up. The community is invited to the swearing in ceremony for Police Chief Craig Haradia on Wednesday, 02/25/2006 at 3PM at the center at Founders Village, 17967 Bouchard Street. So we look forward to seeing you there and get to know our chief better in that setting. Thank you, mayor.

Great. So I wanna welcome chief Craig Heredia. It's great meeting with you and and and connecting with you instantly. And I wanna say a huge thanks to chief Rod Cox. I wanna embarrass him a little bit. I'd like to give him a standing ovation. So please stand and clap him out if he's leaving.

And, of course, we have to take a photo.

If counsel could come down, we'll take

Alright.

Okay. I'll move into the mayor's update. Hope you can join us tomorrow for the mayor's breakfast. It's gonna be at 08:00 for about an hour at Memorial Care Health Center, And in line with four of my sort of baseball themes, tomorrow, we're gonna be heading to first base health and fitness valley. So coming here about getting healthy and fit.

And I just wanna let everybody know it's gonna be a little bit different. Don't need to to quite dress up to these because we're gonna be doing some stretching and a little bit of it's gonna be a little bit more than a sit and soak. So just just come on out and find out. It'll be a lot of fun. We will have a speaker. It'll be doctor Lee Fan from Memorial Care, and he will share insights on health and fitness. So look forward to seeing you tomorrow morning. It's time to crown a new mister Fountain Valley. Join us February 21 at 05:30PM at the center in Founders Village. We have five amazing contestants.

Who will be the next mister Fountain Valley? Also join the Fountain Valley Small Business Conference in partnership with Small Business Development Center and the Fountain Valley Chamber of Commerce on February 25 from 08:30AM to noon. This is gonna be at Center At Founders Village. Also wanna mention that the city is working with Tripepe Smith to host a community workshop on Wednesday, February 25 at the recreation center. This will be from six to 07:30PM.

The purpose of the workshop is to gather feedback on the upcoming strategic plan goal setting for the next three years. A community feedback form will be also shared on the city's website for those who are unable to attend but wanna provide input. We're gonna be hosting national anthem auditions. So come on out and audition for a chance to sing the national anthem for one of our upcoming 2026 events. Call (714) 839-8611 to reserve your spot.

Auditions will be held on Saturday, March 7 from 9AM to 11AM. And I think this is a real fun opportunity for for all those that we know there's a lot of great singers in our community, and they really shine when they get a chance to sing our national anthem. And then lastly, join us at the City of Westminster's Tet Parade on Saturday, February 21 at 09:30. The city council and Miss Fountain Valley team will join many of us be elected from from different cities and nonprofits to celebrate and wish everyone a welcoming New Year. It's the year of the horse.

So Happy Lunar New Year and Chukmung Namoi. That's the key, Rick.

Alright. So

I tried to get some of that spirit. I thought that was a lot of fun. Thank you, vice mayor. You had a good time. Okay. So next, we'll move into First City Council successor agency housing authority public comment. Oh, would you vice mayor like to get into the attire a little bit? Okay.

No. I'll let the let the city manager Lee, can you sort of describe our attire here and

So all the city council member are wearing Aoyai. It's the traditional cultural outfit in celebration of Lunar New Year festival.

Okay. And wonderful colors this year, just amazing. Okay. So moving to First City Council successor agency housing authority public comments on unscheduled matters. Do we have any requests to speak?

We have several requests to speak on unscheduled matters.

Okay.

First up is Katie Wright. For those of you that are new here, you have three minutes and the timer will be up behind city manager Lee.

Welcome. Thank

you. Welcome mayor, mayors, all. I'm here to give a public service announcement from the citizen's microphone, and that's the whole point of my public service announcement. Just gonna turn around for a second. Is anyone here wanting to make a public comment that doesn't know how to use the blue card? Everyone knows how.

Thank you.

Thank you. I did help one lady in the hallway. I feel almost like an unofficial sergeant at arms ambassador because when I find people, say, hey, do you know how to use this? So I'm gonna tell people how to use this. Hi, camera. Folks at home, you can call in on Zoom. You don't have to come down here. Once in a while, they run out of the blue cards. They're always referred to as the blue cards colloquially. Sometimes it could be white. Sometimes it can be pink, whatever color card stock is on hand. You put the date, your name. If you choose your phone and address, you can put it in. You don't have to. If it's an agenda item, there's a little line here that says agenda item.

The reason you put that in is so the city clerk knows when to call your name. If it's a non agenda item, I just put NA and sometimes I'll give a clue what I'm talking about. Then you take the card and a lot of people are confused about this. They don't realize. You need to hand the card in early on as early as you fill it out. You take it down here. You put it there. That one's blank. You don't have to worry about it. And the city clerk will check.

He checks periodically to look and see if there are any cards there so he can put it in the order. He'll find what agenda item and he'll shuffle his cards. And please, please make yourself at home to the microphone. This is our microphone. We let the city staff use it when they need to, but it really belongs to us. It's the first amendment right. I have three minutes. I have almost one minute left. And I cannot tell you how important it is that we come down here. You may be new at speaking.

I offer anyone the chance to come with me to visit any Toastmasters meeting. We teach people public speaking and leadership skills. It's my passion to make everyone feel comfortable up here talking about whatever it is you're going to talk about. I don't care if I agree with your point of view. I'm ecstatic when you don't. I'm ecstatic when you do. But there's nothing to be afraid of here. You're among friends. I get mostly smiling faces looking back at me from the dais. Once in a while there's an exception, but most of the time.

I either get a blank stare of someone in shock or I get a smile. And I want to see you all down here doing this. And again, if you read the agenda, this is showing on YouTube livestream. You can get closed captioning if you can't hear. You can get foreign languages if

that's Time's up.

And when your time's up, the city clerk will tell you. Thank you, Rick.

Victor?

Good evening, mayor, city council. I'm gonna speak on the the charter city. I was once given a good visual illustration of the beauty of the republic strategy from federal to local, and I think it's important here to just share that. Our president faces outward protecting our country. Our governor protects our state from overreach from outside.

Our sheriff of our county protects our county from overreach coming into the county, and the city council protects from overreach against this city. Now this is generally speaking, but that is generally the way things work in our beautiful republic that we have here in The United States. And I'm not now, I'm not speaking of anybody here in the dais nor am I anybody else politically. This is just for humankind. Unfortunately, some give into corruption when the right opportunity arises.

This can happen in Sacramento or it can happen here in Fountain Valley. It is far easier to deal with such corruption locally where it is better seen and dealt with than done from afar where we at the p as we, the people, at a minimum, can make our government for the people in the ballot booth. Careful crafting of the charter to not conflict with state items to yield the 10% to 18% savings is expense reduction that continues year after year. Me as a person, I'm retired. And I watch my money, and I make sure that where my money goes, I put it somewhere where I can make yield on it.

So time is truly important in this case. Local control factoring the potential local and state corruption is still better. Couple that with the savings wins my support for any city that wants to have a charter. And so with that, I just want to say that I truly do support the charter of Fountain Charter City for Fountain Valley on that. Thank you very much for your time. Deborah Wondrchick.

Welcome. Deborah

Wonder chuk. I'm the founder and CEO of Arts and Learning Conservatory. It's a nonprofit that is a music program that keeps the arts accessible and available to all students. We operate right here in Fountain Valley and for the last fourteen years, we've provided the band and orchestra programs that all the elementary school students do at all seven schools. The other job that I have is I am the Arts Commissioner for the City Of Costa Mesa.

So I am a huge arts advocate and all about children having accessibility to the arts. With all the time that we've been here in the district, we've seen how the music transforms young lives, how the students gain confidence, they learn discipline, they discover their sense of belonging and they carry the pride that not only into their classrooms but their pride into the broader Fountain Valley community. As a nonprofit, we're deeply committed to making sure every child has access to these opportunities. And even over the years, we've raised funds to help families with financial hardships in this district because we believe finances should never be a barrier to a child's growth. We're invested in our students, not just as musicians but as young people with incredible potential.

We're proud to provide exceptional teaching staff. Our teachers are professional musicians. We have over 50 teaching artists that work for us that are here in Fountain Valley and beyond throughout Orange County. I would like to personally invite you all to come and see the impact that is happening with the instrumental music program for yourselves. On May 28, we'll be hosting a district wide concert called the Monster Concert and it's a monster. There's going to be several 100 Fountain Valley students performing but over several thousand Fountain Valley community members will be in attendance. Again, is May 28, two performances five p. M. And seven p. M.

And this will be at Fountain Valley High School. If you are going to come, I would love to know about that so we can let the school district know and honor you as guests at that event. Again, I want to thank you for your continued support of the arts. This is a district that loves children, loves the arts. I feel it every day when we work here with our students. And I want to thank you for supporting the children and the families of Fountain Valley. It makes a lasting difference. So thank you once again.

Michael Hutton.

Welcome. Thank you.

Good evening, council members and mayor. My name is Michael Hutton. I am a twenty three year resident of Fountain Valley and previously a twenty five year resident of Huntington Beach. I'm here tonight to request you, the council, to please consider putting a measure on the ballot for the November to become a charter city. Here's your chance to listen to the people and truly represent your citizens.

Some benefits of being a charter city, mostly it's an issue of local control versus state control. More local control. Who signed the agreement with OCPA? Certainly not the people. Fiscal responsibility, 92 out of 310 employee credit cards, who's watching the piggy bank?

Smarter public works cost savings, once again, local rules versus state rules. Local land use and housing control, well, look across the street. Empowered voters, secure voting, CHB, Huntington Beach. Local accountability to local voters, not the state. In closing, I urge all of you to strongly consider giving the people the power to govern and determine their destiny destiny. Thank you for your consideration. Marsha?

You mean Martha?

Oh, sorry. Maybe it's Martha.

Sorry. Bad handwriting. My bad.

So I'm getting familiar with your system and trying to figure out the agenda. So I mislabeled some of the earlier content, so I'm gonna work backwards a little bit. First, Patrick, I wanna city councilman Patrick, you did great and you survived. You were pretty scared when you were wishing us a happy new year,

so thank

you. But I here too am excited because I learned about Fountain Valley through another fellow citizen that you guys are actually had put the you guys voted to have a charter city and to put it on the measure. But what I'm a little unclear on was I heard that it got postponed or something. I don't I I wanna encourage you as well to bring it to vote, for this November election. There were so many benefits from it.

From business perspective, doing business, cause I'm in the construction relation like related industry, the paperwork, the accounting and the overinflated costs that it costs the city, it's not it's not efficient. And, you know, assuming I'm assuming that it's coming from the tax dollars that as you care for your community, you guys actually allow for far more influence. As people understand how it affects them personally and not the layers of bureaucracy that just gets spread over time and it gets diluted, it's not effective. You're gonna be able to engage with the community far much far far better and you're gonna be more efficient. And like if you can put like a commission, like a percentage for the monies that you save for your community, you guys would do really, really well.

And I'm talking about it from a functional side. Another thing is a couple of meetings back, there was a I think it was a question about translation. So I'm Chinese and I just want to just really want you to know, Google Translate is good for certain things, like if you're doing interior design, you want color, like basic stuff, but conceptualize, it is not good. So I'll give you an example. Rather than someone telling my mom, they say, come have your barbecue, what was communicated to her, horse, go climb that mountain.

Okay, so I want you to understand that having a proper interpreter is really key, and that Google Translate doesn't do well for contextual cultural concepts that do not translate literally. There is no words that are equivalent to that. And the next thing is, so, you know, I'm going back and catching up on your city council meetings. And so, think it's really important you guys all have varied aspects, right? I just was kind of troubled by the fact that you all are concerned about the community.

So I'm just curious, it just seemed a little bit hostile about asking about what the breakdown is for the expenditure. It is the city, so I think both parties have the right to ask. So I know you kind of thought that he was doing a

Martha, your time's up.

So thank you for your time.

Ursin Russell.

Good evening, mayor and council. Boy, you got to stand away from this thing. My name is Ursin Russell and over the past four and a half years, I've traveled to 24 counties across the state. I built a statewide organization educating on our election systems and promoting civic duty because we just have really great people in our city government, school boards, and so forth. And they need our support as citizens, right, to let them know that they're doing a good job in those things.

I understand you guys have been talking about a charter city. We know that a quarter of our cities in California are charter cities. We have nine of them or 10 of them here in in Orange County alone. Huntington Beach is obviously one that has gotten so much notoriety for their fight and going after what their citizens thought were important. People can argue whether that was a good move or a bad move, but we have nine other charter cities in Orange County already that are being run successfully. We also need to understand that there's charter cities that only have 222 residents in population. That's the city of Vernon. And the city of Industry has about 260 residents population, and they're also a charter city. So these are things that are pretty simple. And the reason is why we wanna have that power locally.

And I'm gonna use this word very, very clearly and and and effectively is that we have an enemy in Sacramento. And an enemy is someone that opposes or is hostile towards someone else or some group or some entity. We had 1,611 bills passed in the 2324 session. Those are bills that affect the city, affect families, affect businesses, affect the cost of living, and it affects this city having to go and constantly change and what's coming down the pike and what's coming in '27 and all these things and constantly adjusting. And there's parts of that that you as the city can clearly take over ownership of the municipal affairs.

I think one of the other things long of charter cities is you guys actually like coordinating together on, gosh, we've got 10 or 11 charter cities here. Aren't there some things that we can do collectively to stand for these communities and let Sacramento know, look, we're charter cities for a reason. And you keep pushing these things on us and pushing these things on us and trying to represent your local community. So those are just some of the values that I've seen from the charter cities that I've I've worked with and and traveled to and talked to and so forth. And it's there's nothing perfect in government.

There's the top down that's always gonna be trying to push down all these policies and laws. And and hopefully, it's something that you guys as a council can figure out. I did hear there's some comments about, you know, that we're not prepared or planned for it. If that's the case, I'm gonna give my cards here to the city manager. If that's genuinely the concern, then let's work through it. Like, let's work through it and get those plans on paper and make that happen sooner than later, not two or four years from now. Let's show this community here that this is serious if you're concerned and put power back into the local community's hands. So I thank you so much for letting me share tonight.

Linda?

Welcome.

Thank you. Welcome, Mayor, and rest of the council members. I'm not as well spoken as the last couple of speakers, so I'll make it short. But I wanted to speak on the city's consideration of being a charter city. I think this is an exciting move that would afford the city more local control and self governance, which would be more equitable to serve the needs of our citizens and our community as well as by saving us time and money without being bogged down by Sacramento. Thank you.

Lindy Jordan.

Welcome. Good evening.

Haven't said that in a while. My name is Lindy Jordan. I'm a forty year Fountain Valley resident. And I want to thank you for your attention and your smiles to each of the Thank you so much. The last meeting I attended, I was concerned about there was a little bit of discussion about the Citi credit cards and the number I was actually pretty shocked to hear that the number of credit cards between the different departments is 92.

And so, I just would like to request, since we're a mid sized city and Fountain Valley seems pretty small, I would like to request that we look into that and determine the need, maybe reassess, does everybody need to have a card? I don't particularly care to pay for people's lunches. And with an it's an open door access to extra spending. And so that would be my request, if you wouldn't mind looking into that. And also, I would like to state my support for becoming a charter city.

So I know you're putting it on the ballot in the fall. I agree with all the points that have been made and I am very much in favor of that. So I'd love to have you guys proceed. Thank you.

I have no further request to speak.

Mister mayor Councilwoman Constantine. I think we probably need to give some information to the public unless I miss something. Are we gonna have the Charter City matter on our ballots in November? For sure.

I think where we left it off, we were at the stage of a survey.

Right.

And so that's really the next action item, is to bring information regarding the survey.

Thank you. I mean, hate to put you on the spot, it's just we have public speakers and they came here with a certain idea and maybe didn't hear the latest from a prior meeting. Thank you very much.

Okay. Mr. Mayor?

Yes. Mayor Mbuoy?

Not only we are going to a survey, but I think you have request to have two additional company rather than just one survey company. And we also put we have this councilor decided to put a break on it and we're not going to revisit the item possibly either 2027 or 2028. That's my recollection. It's not just waiting for the survey. I just want to make sure that we convey the information to the public. We must convey the entire information.

That is correct.

Yes. Okay.

All right. So the public understand that it's pushed back.

Okay. We'll move to public comments scheduled matters only. Do we have any request to speak?

We have no request to speak on scheduled items.

Okay. Next will be consent calendar items one to six. These will be approved simultaneously with one motion unless separate action and or discussion is requested. Does anyone want to have any item removed?

I'd like to pull item six, please and I will go ahead and move items one through five.

Are there any other wishes to remove any items?

Yes, I'd like to pull item number four.

Okay, so items four and six are pulled.

So I make a motion to approve items one, two, three.

One, two, three.

And

five, thank you.

I'll second.

Thank you.

Okay, please vote.

Items one, two, three and five of the consent calendar passed five zero.

Okay why don't we go numerically. So item four was pulled by council member Bui. Would like to speak?

Thank you Mayor. The reason why I'm pulling this item because I want to dive in and just clarify a few things. What it was said at the last meeting. So at the last meeting, our city manager stated that our city goes above and beyond in its auditing process. And we are fully and we are a fully service agency and we and we hire an independent auditor to review our financial records.

I believe her and we should because there is no reason not to trust the professional we hire. The public entrust us to select the best leadership to serve our community. However, after carefully reviewing the auditor report, it is clear that the audit performed was a full financial statement audit. This type of audit is comprehensive for accounting and financial reporting, but it does not have a comprehensive operational or compliance audit of city activities or spending practice. So we must understand the distinction of the two type of auditing.

The audit does not fully review the credit card control, purchasing compliance and department spending behavior. These area usually require a separate internal performance, compliance and or forensic audit rather than just the annual comprehensive financial report audit. I'm not saying there's a real concern here. What I said at the last meeting, and I'm saying again today, was simply that we should evaluate whether issuing 92 city credit card is operational appropriate and justify. However, at the last meeting, some of my colleague quickly defend the current practice and saying that saying no change are needed because the system has always worked.

This is their perspective on oversight. I have a different perspective. To clarify further in the audit report, the independent auditor responsibility is limited to expressing an opinion on whether the city financial statement are fairly presented in accordance with GAAP, Generally Accepted Accounting Principle. The auditor does not guarantee detections of all fraud or errors, does not provide an opinion does not provide an opinion on the effectiveness of internal control and does not provide assurance regarding operations or policy compliance matter. This is the real reason concern why I'm calling the need for assessment to see if there's a real need for the 92 credit card.

And if I recall on the last meeting, Council Member Hopper has also said, okay, we'll go ahead and rely on staff and be prudent about it. And that was it. But there's no clear indications are we going to look into it, whether is this appropriate, proportional to do the right thing as an oversight? So that's where we're at.

Okay. Councilman Buoy, just for clarity. So on Item four, which is approval of the registered demands, is there anything else we want to cover as far as that action?

As far as the actions I approve except on the P Card because I don't I have not looked into the detail of that. So therefore, the reason I'm bringing that up is I would not approve that because I have not seen I can't approve something that if I'm not clear on certain concern that I have in there. Understand.

Mr. Mayor, I have a Yes. So also too for the member of the public talking about open door spending not wanting to pay for a staffers lunch. You know, we hear you here. We we have the 92 p cards. Our city manager has mentioned that the monthly statements are reviewed constantly. There is a policy in place. I'm not sure who knows what. So I just wanna let everybody know besides city hall that we're sitting in right now with many departments within, we have police, fire, the city yard. I just wrote this tonight.

Founders Village and the recreation center, etcetera. So I don't know if you guys know, but the city operation is a big one. We have a city manager on board who, to the best of her ability, has fine tuned our P Card system. They're reviewed quite regularly. We have no improprieties. I I don't understand what we're making here. And you, council member Bui, last meeting referred to the process of reviewing these statements as tedious. Staff is not saying they're tedious, so that was your opinion. So this is relevant here. So I don't understand.

We have no problems. It sounds like we're going into a zone of a problem. Why?

Thank you, Mayor.

Councilor Kim Kunstin, obviously, you have a different way of viewing things in terms of oversight. Let me ask you this. Do you know other city that has according to the state controller data have 1,500 employee? Do you know how many credit card do they have? We have three ten employee.

This is not relevant.

Is absolutely relevant to the point let me see here.

When you place these phone calls to the different cities, I can only imagine how the calls went.

Here is because there are several city, I'm not going to name any city, there are several city, more than one city throughout state of California has evaluated the number of credit card relationships to the number of employees because there is not saying there is here, but there's a need to verify if it is need to have them a credit card. Those city have made a change because there were situations that it didn't get caught until a later use later. That's why they have reduced down their number of credit card. I'll give you an example. The 1,500 employee they have on staff, the percentage credit card issue to the city is roughly about 8.9%.

If I was doing the math in North City, with almost 30%. They have 1,500, but they have only 9% credit card issuing. We have three ten employee according to the same bureau. We have almost 30% credit card. You only see this you don't see an issue, that's one city.

Are you suggesting improprieties? I mean this is a yes

or I'm suggesting that we need to look into it and evaluate how many credit card is really needed out there. Am I also understanding there's credit card that's been out there, but it has not been touched for years by the employee?

There's nothing There's wrong with

nothing wrong. But my point is, why have so many credit card if there's no need for it? We need to evaluate how we conduct business. That's amazing oversight.

City Manager Lee, Yes. Do you want

Our Finance Director, Ryan Smith is here. So he'd be happy to share some of the process clarification.

Thank you, City Manager, Mayor, Council. Yeah. And I think the concern about having so many cards, I think it's valid. It is a lot of cards to administer. My staff does spend quite a bit of time going through.

We make sure every single transaction has a receipt attached. We make sure that everything on the receipt is an allowable expense. So doing that every month is an administrative burden on my department. And I've been on the other side where I've seen cities that don't have that many cards. And I think one of the, you know, kind of the balance that you have to do is, you know, a city that doesn't have very many credit cards is still being used oftentimes by many people.

They'll have one card for a department and there'll be many people in that apartment using that card for different purchases. And so that can become an issue when people aren't taking ownership of certain transactions, who did this, who did and it's hard to say. So on this side of having one card issued to so many people, it provides a level of accountability. You know, when we're when there's purchases made by the city, we're able to say, you know, exactly this person made the purchase or is responsible for that card. So it's definitely a balance that we're trying.

We're also trying to make sure we're operationally efficient, that we're able to empower employees to go out and, you know, do their job and make the purchases necessary for them to do their job without the finance department, you know, holding them back. So those are just some of the considerations, But I don't necessarily disagree. We're definitely going to look at, as an executive team, is there ways we can reduce this number? Because I know my staff would welcome that for sure.

Okay.

So it's so when you look at a city, there's x amount when it's a full service city. We're a full service city. The one that you mentioned is probably a full service city with 1,500. And there's x amount of positions that need a credit card within the city no matter what the size. And if you take a look at your example, 1,500, 10%, that's still a 150 people with a credit card.

We're at 92, which is about 30%, but there are certain positions that you have to have, and that's why. And if you look at like the rec center, for example, if they have to go buy balloons for an event, are you going to go to procurement and fill out a requisition form and get a purchase order to get it $10 in balloons? Or are you going to make the employee come out of pocket, pay for it and then get reimbursed? That's not right either. That shouldn't happen. So when you look at the numbers, again, there's a certain number of positions within each city that have to have it no matter how many employees you have.

Thank you from that perspective. And I just want share a little story that took place. And then after that I'll ask or what is our process? What is our procedure in term authorization on credit card? So three weeks ago, I was in Washington DC.

And unfortunately, our travel has to cut short because of the storm that's coming in. So all of us who were there, you know, when I say all of us, myself and including other electric officials from different city, including the county, we were scrambling because we were supposed to fly home fly home on on the the planned date was on a Saturday, but the Saturday, that's where the storm was coming in. And none of us really want get stuck out straight out there for weeks, right? How could, you know, it's going to be detrimental, you know, to be out there that long. So, I had a virtual, you know, the luxury to be able to make that combinations through my own credit card, which is great.

I could see that if it was an employee, that would be the great that's awesome. But what I observed was the county, including the supervisor Nguyen, she could not make the change on the flight unless she sent a request her staff had to send a request to the CEO CEO of the county to get approval before they make the change. So that got my wow. The supervisor of District 1, she has a credit card ready. She could swipe it.

Her staff could swipe it. But they didn't do it. They have to wait for the the CEO for from the county to get approval before they could do that under the justifications, the storm is coming. We need to head back home. So by say by sharing that story, I wanna know in our city, if there's an immediate change, whatever the reason is, immediate expenditure, does it goes to our city manager for approval?

Yeah. I think at the at the director level, it would definitely go to the city manager. I think at the staff level, if there was something, they would go to their director, and then that director would have discretion whether they would go to the city manager about it or approve it themselves.

And and that's the process. It's good to know. Okay. I'm just I'm asking you to to get a clarification what is our process because a lot of us don't understand the intricate moving part of the city. But for me, that was wow. That's an oversight from the county. So that I I really like that.

Well, council member Bui, perhaps it was because of former supervisor Do's impropriety's financial

well, I'm not kidding.

You know, we're not over that yet. I don't think we can even compare this.

Mr. Mayor, I'd like to approve item number four.

We have two requests to speak. Excuse me, Council Member Grant. We have two requests to speak. Is there a clerk?

Katie Wright?

So the number 92 is a great dog whistle. Ordinarily, you don't hear dog whistle, but what the heck, we're all a bunch of mutts. I got up and spoke about this last time as well. And if there's no problem, why are we looking for a problem? I came from an environment at AT and T many many years before it became AT and T again. It was SBC. Before that, was Pacific Bell. I was in the Interesting ceiling tiles, buoy. Very rude, but okay. There was a policy that you never let anything go to Simplex.

You made sure they kept supplies on hand to replace everything. Hundreds and thousands of dollars for each little motherboard. Imagine your computer, but, you know, a size of a huge 10 story building. Eventually, they got down to the point, once they were taken over and taken over again, where they got rid of having supplies on hand at the site. They went to the just in time process where they would have to order a part and FedEx it hoping it would come out by the next day.

I can't tell you what that does to an infrastructure that had been designed to constantly be protected, to suddenly have it have no protection except for a last minute phone call to get a piece just in time which they may or may not be able to do. One of the reasons I was so glad to get out of there. They let the infrastructure down. Just saying. People are getting tired of hearing a particular person grandstanding to try and look like he's solving problems that are not there. I'm just saying. I don't think I have to name names, but it's disrespectful to keep beating a dead horse when there's not a problem. Thank you.

Martha? Commissioner Mayor.

I got it right this time.

My handwriting was better.

Can I respond to that?

So I guess what's troubling me is why would you not be concerned about how money is being spent and being preventative? So I'm just gonna tell you, the company I worked for at one time had 700 employees, not including another side. They only have 90 P Cards. That's about 12% to 13%. So I'm going to go back and work like of like percent of P Cards issued for 700, that's 90.

And you guys have what, a little over 300? So there shouldn't be any pushback about being fiscally responsible. Like you guys have to manage your own household just like everybody else. So if someone's using your your p card, your Visa card, which easily gets actually, I don't even have it out of my wallet, I even have an RFID protector. And multiple times my card has been scanned and purchased.

And now the new scam is actually not large purchases, it's like $25.30 dollars purchases which I wouldn't even catch. So actually, this is actually accountability. I'm not quite sure why there's so much pushback about it. And when you talk about hostility, look, I like to think you guys care about Fountain Valley. So when these digs happen, this is just putting out transparency and accountability. So I I I don't understand why it's like if it it broke, why fix it? This is huge opportunity for fraud. The last company I worked with, we had we had P cards to pay for our gas because we we were in sales, and it was completely abused. So what they did is they split it out. They had gas cards.

That excuse me. So so they had gas cards then. It minimized the fraud, but they were still cheating there. Right? They were paying for other family members or other people's gas. We found a way to track it, but it was still wasted time. So there's a way to spend and plan better, right? You guys are a business. I mean, you guys have to be the example of that because businesses and people pay into this. So, you know, when you talk about rudeness, they're trying to be respectful here, but I'm seeing it from other places here too.

I don't understand why transparency and accountability is is so difficult. It's just talk to a business person, like us even like a like a private business owner with a small business. It's not that complicated. Mister mayor.

Councilwoman Constance, before we get to you, Councilman Bui wanted to comment on

the first speaker. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. To our resident, Katie Wright, I guess you don't you probably don't have a full understanding of the job functions and responsibility as council member. One of them is oversight. And I'm exercising those oversight. Whether you agree or disagree, that's your opinion. Thank you.

Mayer, if I may please call up Ryan, our Finance Director. Thank you, Ryan. So Ryan, to date, have all the P Card statements been reviewed? You said you did have receipts attached to everything. Have there been any improprieties? Are we fiscally responsible? Are there any red flags? Any situations that have come up?

No. I mean, the only situations that we'll have is is occasionally an employee will accidentally use it for a personal purchase.

Sure.

And that's usually that's always just reimbursed by the employee back to the city. But other than that, we haven't had any instances of fraud Sure. Or malfeasance any that that way.

Because, you know, we are fiscally responsible, not only the council members, our city manager, our city staff. We try to plan as best we can for events. Every once in a while, it's true. We need balloons or something like that. And we trust that Ryan, our finance director, will further fine tune if need be with a city manager.

So I'm not coming after any particular public speaker. Of course, I wouldn't do that. I just want everybody to be aware at this point that we don't have situations and we don't want situations. We're always going to be reviewing. We're not sitting back and just saying, oh, we're fine, you know, nothing to see here. We don't do that. And that's all I'm gonna say. Thank you so much.

Councilman Lui. Thank you, Mayor.

I thought that was a very unfair questions. Can you imagine any senior manager that would say, yes, we do have fraud,

when you ask that kind of questions?

No. Hold on. Is inappropriate.

That's what you just asked him. Is there any fraud? Senior manager in their right mind would say, yes, we do have frauds, we have to look into it. It's not appropriate questions. You could have asked and said, do you think there's a need to reduce credit card? That'd be more appropriate. But you ask him to give a question of that in the right mind, no finance director will say yes.

Council member So that

is my just my point that that's My

question was how are we up until this moment and have we had situations? And finance director Ryan explained that occasionally, you know, somebody will one of the employees will use a credit card. We get paid back. There are no situations. So they are gonna look into fine tuning to possibly have lesser credit cards. I don't understand what the issue here is. This is a non issue, and your comments have been extremely horrendous. And I caution against that in the future.

Mayor? Yes. Councilman Horrendous.

I'm just curious, Councilman Bui, just your thought on how many is the appropriate number of credit cards and how do you come up with that number?

That's a great question. That's why I have said in the last meeting, if you would look into it to determine what is the most appropriate number of credit card. I never said how many we should have, right? I've said, can you look into it? But to my colleague here and to my other colleague, defend. It's not broken, don't fix it, don't look into it. And I disagree.

Council member Bui, we're not saying it's not broken, don't fix, don't look in. We never said I never personally said that.

Okay. We're gonna try to approve item number four. I'll open it for closing arguments and then I'll move item number four he's removed moved and moved again. And I'll go ahead

I will go ahead and abstain and because I have not seen into the details of the P Card. So therefore I'm going to abstain on item number four.

You could vote no. You don't have to abstain.

No, because I don't know. It could be nothing wrong. That's fine. Review your prerogative. And then do we vote on item number one earlier as well?

Yes.

Okay. Let me

Item number one, two, three and five were approved five zero.

Corrections. Can I go ahead and amend that one? Item number one because I have not got have the opportunity to sit down with our city manager, which is on the item that I abstained. Last time I spoke with the city manager earlier and she will schedule with me to have a sit down on some of the concern that I have on item number one. So I'm going to abstain item number one.

The minutes?

On consent calendar until I have something to review with the City Manager.

On the minutes?

On On the minutes, yes. On the draft and file the minutes.

City Clerk, Maryland, is that

Yes. I'm just curious as to what

the issue is in the minutes, but

Because I'm I have seen last time anyway, so I continue until I have my clarifications.

Okay. So on Item four, please vote.

Item number four passes four zero with one abstention by council member Bowie.

Okay. So item six was pulled by councilwoman Constantine.

Sure. So it's, let's see, item a no. I'm sorry. Item b subsection two and then subsection subsection d. So the word is the person three times in here. And so instead of person, I think it should be replaced with council member, and I missed that one last time. Okay. Because we are talking about council members becoming mayor and or vice mayor. If you want me to read the paragraph, I I don't mind.

You don't have to. If you I'll make the motion. I'll second

for the public to

That's minor.

Okay. I also agree with that.

Okay. Thank you.

So make the motion as amended.

Oh, sure. I make a motion, substitute motion on this ordinance regarding section one b, item two

I'll second.

Two b and then two d to change person to council member in all three instances.

And since this was a consent item, it now is is able to be discussed, councilwoman.

Oh, actually, wait a second. I gotta this is a second reading. Is that gonna is that gonna break?

So you can make typographical errors and minor errors. This doesn't change the substance of the section. I consider this of graphical error that we can change on the second reading. You're changing person to council member and the word means the same.

Okay. I'll second it then. So I'll open

it for discussion. Any further discussion on that?

Hearing none, have a on this particular item. I want to ask our city attorney on the legal basis of these items, another word that there's a lot of rules in place, including the tiebreaker, but all these rules are going to be supersede at the end of the day council decision, whichever route they want to take. Am I correct?

Yes. All

right. So having said that, I see that this rule is insufficient in term of legal enforcement. It's like you have all this rule, but it could be changed by counsel. So it's not a rule. To me, that's like word salad.

It sounds good in theory, but all that could be decided under the council. So what is the real concern here? The real concern here is in the future, if you have a certain body of council that is heavyweight on one side, there could be a disadvantage for the other counsel. Am I correct?

Yes. This is a discretionary as it is.

So therefore, this could be very interjected in the politics. So therefore, it's not a good rule. So if my counsel, obviously, there's a amend and a motion on the floor, you know, I will not vote on this matter because of that political ramifications I could have down the road. I could foresee that. So my only thing is to my colleague is democracy depends on majority vote, but a founder warned that a majority is not always right.

James Madison remind us that decisions can sometime be driven by the force of the majority rather than by fairness or justice. Our duty as council member is not simply to count votes, but to ensure our decisions serve the entire community, including those who voice may not be in the majority at a given moment. Good governance requires wisdom, balance and considerations for all. And I'll leave at that.

So I guess I would like clarification from So council what you're saying is that we make it the rotation that we have, we're suggesting that you say it is now mandatory and we don't have discretion to skip over a council member if we choose to?

No. That's not what I'm saying.

Well, what are you saying?

I'm saying that all these rules, the tiebreakers at the end of the day, it's just like pony show because it is a council, they make the determinations who is going to be the next mayoral Am I correct? So therefore, it's a rule, it's just to sound good, but there's no legal mechanism because at the end of the day, at the day, it's a council that decide who

is So you want a legal mechanism? That's correct. So you want it mandatory that we rotate like I said, you want it mandatory that we rotate the way that we normally do. Or any other suggestion you may have? Well, if we make it mandatory, then you're still behind me in terms of rotation. So if you're okay with that, I'm not sure what you're looking to get. If that to reference thank you

for asking the clarifications. Mr. Suitorne, can you give the clarification on the existing rules that is

No, not go into that again. We did that No, last because

that's interpretations

of the rule. So what you're saying though is you think that we should make it mandatory and your interpretation is you should skip over me as

I'm not saying my invitation, I'm asking the

same I'm asking you.

No, I'm asking you

Are looking to skip over me as

I'm saying that whatever rules that we want to implement, that's how we should apply the rules.

Okay. And if we apply the rules the way that we've done for the last thirty years and we do the rotation the way we're supposed to, I will follow Councilmember Constantine. Are you okay with that?

I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. But just for clarity, because obviously, I we have a different understanding of the interpretations of the law. You have different interpretations of your of that law. I have a different invitation of law. And I think it'd be fair and appropriate for the CDTD to have what the interpretation that was written, if you could explain that.

We've already done that.

No, we did not. Why you have to be concerned about the interpretation?

That's fine.

So based on the if you could give clarifications on the old rules and please explain the rotations as it is written, not as it was the intent.

No, the intent matters because it's the same way we've done it for thirty years. The We've skipped one person in thirty years because they weren't willing to do the duties of mayor, so they skipped him. So whether your technicality of what they're looking for in terms of timeline is the year, not the day and the minute, it's the year. And that's your interpretation as you're trying to find a loophole so that you somehow can skip over me. Because if you didn't wanna skip over me, then this isn't an issue.

Let me ask you this. What I'm asking the attorney is to his interpretation, not my interpretation, the interpretation as is written and the intent was different. There but the rule that was written is was wrong.

Why don't we allow to the attorney Burns to speak.

Thank you.

So the way it was written before, it said whoever has the longest consecutive counsel service since their last election or service as mayor, whichever is longer. So if using council members Bowie and Grandis, both of them have served as mayor within the past two years. Both of them were elected over two years ago. So the way the ordinance is written, they both have a their longest consecutive service quote, whichever is longer, would look back to when they were elected. They were elected at the same time.

And the only reason you But wait. Let finish. Make this mandatory is so that you could use that technicality to skip over me.

Point of order, mister Mayer. Should this attorney has a full until he's conclude with all the explanations then be interrupted.

We'll give city attorney Burns.

I thought he was done.

I I I was. That was my explanation. I I can also say that it was it was meant to be discretionary. So those that's the interpretation of the rule. Okay?

So mister mayor, it also has to do when we first get elected because the this is a different public that was here than last time, and who knows who's watching at home. But so when we first get elected, the number of votes is important. Like for example, in 2018, council member Harper had more votes than me and he served as mayor before I did. Upon reelection, the situation was different. So therefore, the rotation is now at the end of mayor Keene's term, it would be council member Harper as mayor.

And then, well, it's kind of complicated because there's an election. But anyway, then I would be the vice mayor. And then if certain things happen, then I would be the mayor. And then after myself as mayor, the council member Grandis, council member Bowie, it goes on and on like that. So if it were

if it were done the way you wanted, then right now, member Constantine would be vice mayor.

Right. Absolutely. What the question