Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call to order the Fiser Board zoning appeals meeting for Wednesday, January 28th, 2026. Um, if anyone is here for VA2-23 or VA25-24, which are the Verizon telecommunication towers, if you're here for that uh matter, those matters have been withdrawn. So, if you're here for that, there's no need for you to be here. I didn't want anyone to to be here unnecessarily. So if if you are here for that, please feel free to leave. There's no reason for you to stay. If the petition is resubmitted, the petitioner will have to go through the notice process once again and you will be notified of the next public hearing. So with that, thank you. Um at this time, I'd ask anyone who is able to join me in saluting the flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you.

Secretary, would you call the role, please? Mr. Here. Mr. Here, here

we have a quorum to conduct tonight's business. The first order of business is approval of our previous minutes. Members of the board, do we have any additions, modifications, revisions to the minutes from December 17th? All in favor to accept the minutes? I

Minutes are accepted. Our first public hearing is VA-25-25, address 12590 East 116th Street, Starbucks signage, consideration of a development standards variance from section 6.17.6F2 6.52 of the city's unified development ordinance to allow an individual ground sign along a perimeter street for a lot located within an integrated center development. Our petitioner is Misty Nye on behalf of Starbucks. Miss Nye. Yes. Please approach the podium.

Good evening.

Good evening. So, my name is Misty Nye and I am representing Starbucks. They are asking that they be allowed to place a ground monument sign um there in the frontage there. The fabrication or construction of the signage will not be um any larger than the existing. there are monuments on that same road. Um, so it will also blend in with the property look very nice. It it won't stand out. Um, I mean it'll stand out, but it won't make it'll be similar as the other existing signage in that area. There is another, if you'll see the pylon that's behind it, that is a owned by a different property owner. So there's no place on that property or on that pylon to put a face for the Starbucks. And without a ground sign or a monument sign out there, it's very difficult for the customers to, you know, notice that location, that interest. If, if you've been there before, you know that that building does sit back quite a ways from the road. So traveling west of it, you might miss the location, miss the entrance of it. And so a ground sign would really benefit not just Starbucks, but it would benefit, you know, the community or the customers as well.

Are you completed now? Huh? Are you are you finished? Yes.

Thank you very much. We'll hear from members from the staff, please. Good evening. Grace WY, planner for the city of Fisers. Item before you today is a request for development standards variance from section 6.17.6F.2 two of the city's UDO to allow an individual ground sign along a perimeter street for a lot located within an integrated center development. This is for a newly built Starbucks store. 12590 East 116th Street is located at the northeast corner of Brooks School Road and 116th Street. Property is zoned C3 and regulated by the city's UDO. Surrounding area, as shown here, is zoned C3 as well. Across the street to the south is the Sandstone Village subdivision, which is zoned PUDM. Fischer's 2040 comprehensive plan designates this site as neighborhood mixed use. The purpose of neighborhood mixed use is to provide neighborhoodsized services, amenities, and gathering spaces in a pedestrianfriendly environment. The proposed sign is shown here. It will be installed at a slope with a total exposed area of 11.7 square ft along 116th Street. The sign height will be 3'4 in tall. The proposed site plan is shown here to the right. The aerial of the property is from before the building was built. So the green rectangle indicates the approximate location of the now existing building. The petitioner is proposing a ground sign along East 116th Street approximately 95 ft east of the existing integrated center sign which is shown here on the left. A ground sign would be permitted without a variance on the interior of the shopping center to the

north of the Starbucks store. City engineering staff have reviewed the proposed sign and have confirmed that it will not interfere with motorist sight triangles. One public comment was received from Doug Alman who listed 11595 Brooks School Road as his business address and expressed opposition to the signage based on concerns of fairness. Please note um this is a newly built Starbucks. Staff has no recommendation to the board of zoning appeals for this request. Should the board approve this petition, staff recommends it is done with the following condition. The approval letter and related documentation be recorded on the property Hamilton County Recorder Office. As a reminder, the board must determine that all of the above eight criteria are met in order to approve this signage variance. Staff is available for questions.

Thank you. Members of the board, do we have any questions for the petitioner or for staff? I I do have a question. I didn't see the Starbucks sign in the integrated sign that's there already. Is there any Starbucks sign along that corridor or is it a No, there's not the So, um, as Misty said, there isn't room in the current integrated center sign for a Starbucks to be added. So, there aren't any current Starbucks signs along 116th Street, just the signs that are on their building. Thank you. Does that answer your question? It does. Thank you.

At this time, I'm going to open the public hearing. If anyone is here from the public to speak to this, please raise your hand. If you're here to speak to the petition of Starbucks, please raise your hand. Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing and entertain a motion or additional questions from members of our board.

Make a motion that we approve BA2525 on the conditions that the approval letter and related documentation be reported on the property Hamilton County's reporters office and all the criteria for the approval of the variance of signage is agreed upon. We have a motion. Do we have a second? I will second that. Secretary.

Mr. Ginslade. Yes. Mr. Sylvie. No. Mr. Stevenson. Yes. Mr. Lannon? No. Mr. Fui.

Yes. Motion passes. Our next order of business is crew car wash signage. The address is 11578 Allisonville Road, case VA-25-26. This is consideration of three development standards variances from section 6.17.6.E E of the city's unified development ordinance to allow a second ground sign on a non-residential lot with less than 250 ft of property frontage from section 6.17.5 of the city's UDTO to allow an electronic message board and from section 6.17.9 C.3 of the city's UDO to allow wall-mounted drive aisle signs to be six square feet in size rather than four square feet. Our petitioner is Molly Peterson on behalf of Crew Car Wash. And you don't look like

I don't look like Molly. Could you state your name, sir? Yes, I can. Thank you. Uh members of the board, Joe Calderan, attorney with offices at one at 11 South Meridian in Indianapolis. So Molly's with Scraft and oftentimes I work with Scraft uh and particularly with the crew car wash account. Um, so they have asked me to kind of step in and assist in the presentation this evening. Um, Grace, do you have the slides that I sent? Can you pull those up? Yes, the if you hit the arrow, then they are all in order. Um, and should come up on the screen. Up arrow, down arrow, uh, side arrow to the right there.

Perfect. Okay. So, I'm going to, uh, run through just a few slides. Um, as you all know, uh, Crew Car Wash is got a pretty good footprint in the city of Fisers. They moved their headquarters here. Uh, they are in the midst of finishing up a new, uh, store at 116th in Allisonville, the former Jiffy Lube. Uh, and that should be open in pretty soon. Uh, one of the last things to come about as part of the permitting process is that their sign package, which they call a brand book, has gone through uh scrutiny and there were a couple of signs that did not meet uh the letter of the UDO. So uh we have decided that uh those signs do have merit and we hope that we can convince you of the same even though that they require uh variances. So this parcel has been uh around a long time. It does not have direct access to Allisonville. So, what we want to point out first and foremost is that what we're presenting to you tonight will not interfere with anybody walking or driving on Allison Mill Road, which is the primary way that is on the um east side of the parcel as you also probably know. uh and we have other car washes in uh Fisers and in Hamilton County. There's a lot of change in that industry. There's a lot of choices that customers have to make uh in terms of well, what kind of wash am I going to get? What kind of added services? Do I do this one time or do I do it for a month? So, you've all seen

the evolution of the car wash business uh over time. It's not just pick one and put your 50 cents in and and go the way it was many years ago. So, what we're trying to do with the sign package at Crew is to essentially come up with a signed plan and this is uniform throughout their locations that will provide maximum efficiency for their customers. So, as you can imagine, there are peak times when there's lots of cars in queue and those cars, each driver has to make a decision as to what they want to do. And the sign program is all part of maximizing that efficiency to get the flow through the car wash, avoid the spill uh onto uh nearby streets, etc. And we think the sign uh package uh helps move that along. So this is a picture of an aerial kind of showing the footprint of the sign. The uh various letters uh indicate the sign locations. What's in play for us today is the EC4 sign which you can see uh kind of on the east end of the building. And that is the second freestanding sign that uh staff has identified as part of the variance. Staff looks as it at this as a ground sign and it is it's groundmounted. However, um the it does not compete or duplicate the information on the traditional ground sign that is already existing from the old Jiffy Lube days that is oriented on the corner of the property to Allisonville traffic. In fact, the

digital menu sign, which is triggering two variances, is oriented to the west for cars in the drive-thru lane. In other words, if you're on Allisonville, you're not seeing this sign other than the structure. You're not seeing any of the copy on it. So, we think and we hope that you will agree that that particular sign, and I'll show it to you in a moment, really functions the way a drive-th through restaurant would in terms of a menu board. When you think about it, this is all drive-through business. Cars queuing in line. They have to make decisions. It's just an opportunity for them to see what's available, how they place their order. This is a site plan uh that is in black and white that kind of shows you the queueing coming off of Fischer Landing, entering in and queuing three rows moving uh to the east towards Allisonville. So, the sight lines are such and the signs that we're sharing with you tonight are all designed to uh attract uh the attention of those drivers that are already in Q, not people that are on Allisonville Road whatsoever. As you heard from the um introduction, this is a uh two-part or three-part variance. Uh the ground sign that I spoke about briefly uh is uh treated as a second ground sign without the requisite frontage. Uh our view is that the sign not being oriented to traffic on Allisonville should really be thought of and we hope you agree as kind of a drive-thru menu board sign.

This is the ground sign that is not part of the variance but shows you what people on Allisonville Road would be seeing. It's just a replacement on the existing base from Jify Loop not in play from a variance. But this is the sign that is permitted and does not trigger variance. It's important in context because the next slide that I show you will not be anything like this nor will it be oriented to capture business uh from Allisonville Road which is the main travel way. This is the sign that we're talking about. Uh the specs of it are fine if you consider this to be the equivalent of a drive-thru menu board sign. Same meets the height requirement, meets the square footage requirement. This sign uh faces the cars that are already in Q does not face Allisonville Boulevard. That the three panels there are digitized so you can change the pricing, you can offer different promotions, etc. will not blank flash and could be restricted. We can even or you can even condition this sign as uh being approved subject to not facing Allisonville Road. The other signs that are in play tonight are what we call or Scraft calls snap frame size uh signs and these are kind of similar to what you might consider a preview menu. These are placed on the frames of the canopy when you're in the drive-thru and you're driving up. And we are asking for a two square foot uh increase in size. Nothing more. These are not flashy signs. These are static signs. But again, they are just size so that the information on them can be more

easily read. It's kind of like going to the eye doctor and having to squint or being able to see something clearly as you're going in. So this would be the uh exact sign. You can see that there are uh several bits of information. The smaller you make the sign, the more difficult it is to uh to read. And again, it's just a matter of adding a couple square feet to make them more legible. It doesn't stick out beyond the the frame of the canopy. It fits within the canopy is taller. So, it is not really discernable from a public standpoint other than it's just easier to read and that would be the smaller sign square uh the 4ft square. So, uh, we're just asking for a little bit more, um, size so that again, it it's easier to read for the customers coming into Q. And again, these are not facing Alisonville Road. These are just sitting on the drive-thru canopy structure for customers that are getting ready to make their order. Um, we understand where the staff is. They need to support the UDO. We're asking you as a board to understand where we're coming from, which is that the UDO actually allows for a digital board sign as we're proposing for guess what? Drive-through restaurant. So, distinguishing between a drive-through restaurant and a drive-through car wash in our mind is just not really legally distinguishable. You still are going to have cars and customers that need to make decisions. We're just trying to make it easier for them so that we can efficiently move them through the car

wash. None of these signs will adversely affect the community. They're not designed to attract or distract from traffic on Allisonville Road. They're not in any clear sight triangle. We think they meet the other criteria that you have for sign variances, but uh from a state statute standpoint, we don't think they hurt the community. We don't think they hurt, uh the neighbors because they're they don't impact the use or v or visibility of any of our neighboring properties. This is strictly for customers that are already in the queue at Crew Car Wash. So again, we really have two types of signs that trigger the three variances that you heard. The digital board sign uh triggers two variances. One being a second freestanding sign without the frontage and two having the digital element. So, our position is that because that particular digital board sign is cute uh uh oriented to customers already in traffic, not to Allisonville, that it can and should be treated differently, much like your UDO does with a drive-through restaurant. And then the preview menu boards, it's a minor deviation in size. It fits right on the structure. Just makes things more legible. It just helps the customer experience. It helps uh we think the community by allowing uh customers to move through more efficiently. Not aware of any objectors but happy to answer any questions that board may have at this time. Thank you.

Thank you very much. We'll hear from members of the staff and if we have questions back sir.

Thank you. Grace Wy, planner for the city of Fisers. Item before you today is a request for three development standards variance. The first is a variance from section 6.17.6e of the city's UDO to allow a second ground sign on a non-residential lot with less than 250 ft of property frontage. The second is a variance from section 6.17.5 of the UDO to allow an electronic message board. And the third is from section 6.17.9 C.3 of the UDO to allow wall mount wall-mounted drive signs to be six square feet in size rather than four square ft. 11578 Allisonville Road is located south of 116th Street and west of Allisonville Road. Property is zoned C3 and is regulated by the city's unified development ordinance. Surrounding area, as shown here, is zoned C3 and C2. Fischer's 2040 comprehensive plan designates this site as regional mixed use. Purpose of regional mixed use is to provide a community hub of commercial, residential and institutional uses in a pedestrian-friendly environment. The proposed signage is shown here. The first proposed sign is shown here with proposed location indicated on the site plan. Sign is a is a proposed digital ground sign. Propost sign area is 20 square feet 6 feet tall. Two of the variance requests are related to this sign. It will be located internally to the site. Site has an additional existing ground sign along Allisonville Road. Per the UDO, this is only allowed one ground side. That is the first variance. Additionally, digital signage is prohibited in Fisers except in the

case of drive-through restaurant menu boards. That is the second variance. The second sign is for proposed wall signs. They are proposed to be six square feet in area each. The UDO allows wall signs of this type to be up to four square feet. The signage shown here has been approved by city staff and is compliant with the standards laid out in the UDO. So, this includes building signs, entrance sign, um liability sign, and the um ground sign at the along Allisonville Road. No public comments have been received. Staff recommends denial to the board of zoning appeals for this request based on concerns that the signage will be a distraction to motorists and is not consistent with the UDO. Should the board approve this petition, staff recommends it is done with the following condition. The approval letter and related documentation be recorded on the property with the Hamilton County Recorders Office. As a reminder, the board must determine that all of the above eight criteria are met in order to approve this variance. Staff is available for questions. Thank you. Members of the board, do we have questions for the petitioner or for staff? I have a question for the petitioner, sir. you you're asking for uh a variance from three development standards which essentially is the second ground sign digitally and then the increase from four to six feet on the pillars.

Correct. Correct. Those pillar sides. Yeah. So this came as one petition and I my assumption is you want us to vote on each one of the aspects of your variance. So procedurally, Rodney, when we do this, is it three motions or is it one motion on one petition? That's what I think too. I choice that. Okay. Now, we could I assume that we could do it in two because one is the second ground sign digitally. We couldn't just vote on digital signage without the second ground sign. Is that true? Um, I have no problem doing it either way.

Um, I I don't know if it makes a difference whether that what I call the menu sign. It if it's not digital, it's still a second ground sign. If you want it doesn't matter to me if you combine them, but if you want to separate them, it might provide an opportunity to have something for those folks. Understood. We'll do it as three separate ones. Yeah. Okay. And and members of the the staff, I have a question. In terms of u restaurant menu signage, could you give us a primer on digital restaurant menu signage at a McDonald's, a Burger King, an Arby's? Uh what's our existing

rules there? What I'm sorry, I don't think I understand your question. Um is your question just when is it allowed and when is it not? Do we allow? I don't believe we allow digital signage for menu boards at restaurants. Yes, we do. We do. Okay. Yes. All right. You do. Uh quick service restaurants with the drive-throughs. Very good. That That's what I was asking about.

Yeah. And and the size of them is up to six feet and 40 square feet. We're less than the square footage. So, we're not asking for anything above what would be allowed for a drive-thru uh restaurant. in terms of brightness, different times a day. I assume that's in our UDO. Yes, we do have standards. So, you could, if you were to approve the digital sign, you could um add a condition that it has to comply with the UDO brightness.

We'd be comfortable with that. We'd also be comfortable, as I mentioned in the presentation, with a condition that that menu sign not be oriented to Allisonville Road. I know staff mentioned that they thought it was a distraction for motorists. Well, it's not a distraction for anybody on public ways at all. So, if you want to add a condition to have that menu sign only face internally to the site, that would be fine as well because that's our intent. It's not to advertise to anybody on Allisonville Road, hey, come on in for this special. It's to let folks know who are already in line in Q what their options are and you know certainly sometimes what promotions might be.

Thank you sir. Thank you. Question for staff. Tom. Go ahead. Um you're this is for staff. I'm sorry. Uh you're re recommending a denial for this. What is the other than the the three variances that we're talking about here that we're trying to get through? What is the underlying? Is it a public safety issue? Is it a traffic issue? Is it uh property value issue? What is it that that would be the denial aspect on your side?

Um we there's two maybe three things. So we are concerned that the light from the um electric electronic message board could uh be a distraction to motorists even if it is not facing Allisonville um in the dark. Um we also are concerned with the lack of compliance. And then thirdly, there is a concern about um sign fatigue along Allisonville Road. There's a significant amount of signage on Allisonville already that um is a distraction to motorists. And so additional signage in the Allisonville area um is something that we're concerned about. So your main issue then was the distraction to traffic on Alisonville.

Yes. Yes. Obviously if this isn't oriented to Allisonville that takes some of that out of out of the equation. Okay. Thank you. I I have a question for staff. Uh the the reference to this this sign with potential orientation to Allisonville was represented as as item number one on your uh u info infograph. Uh the ground sign is item one. Item one. Yes. Would you like me to go back to it? Uh no I don't think so. Okay. Thank you.

I have a quick question for Sn. So, I live at 116th in Alville in Sunwest. I I know where that's going. Is the McDonald's sign just north of that or I guess yeah, just north of that a distraction even though it doesn't face Alisonville. The build the the signage that goes there when you're going into order. I can't speak to that sign, but uh is an existing sign, so it's not also being quick service food, it is allowed by right for McDonald's.

Okay, having no other questions from the board to petitioner or staff, I'm going to open the hearing to the public. If anyone is here from the public to speak to this petition, please raise your hand. Anyone here to speak to the petition of crew car wash for additional signage? Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing and entertain a motion. Uh, and we have to take them again. We'll take them one at a time. Do we have a motion for uh the first item, which is the second ground sign on a non-residential lot with less than 250 ft of property frontage with a voluntary condition that it be oriented not facing Allisonville Road. Is that correct, sir? Did I state that correctly?

Thank you. Yes. I make a motion that we approve just said. Okay. Since it's not written down anywhere. So, so the the motion, correct me if I'm wrong, the motion is approval of a second ground sign on a non-residential lot with less than 250 ft of property frontage, provided that or with the voluntary condition that the sign is not facing Allisonville Road. It's oriented to Fischer Landing Drive rather than Allisonville Road. I would only change the word voluntary to mandatory.

Okay. With the condition with the condition that the ground sign not face Allisonville be oriented to Fischer's Landing. So we have a motion. Do we have a second for M? Mr. Silly, did you have a question? I I do have a question about that. So oriented but still visible from Allison though

or face. What I meant by that is that the sign copy the sign face would not be oriented to Allisonville. You could obviously see the back of the structure from it. Uh but the sign face where the copy is and the messages are would not be oriented to Allison bill. They'd be facing west. see the side of the sign, the back of the but so it's facing the copy on the sign is facing west if I have my orientation correct. Exactly.

Not visible from Alisonville even at an angle. I don't think so because it's, you know, really meant to be square with the drivers in Q. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. We we may try that motion again. You want to try it again so that we're we're clear because we want to be clear.

Uh okay. Make a motion that we approve uh VA 2526 development standards variance from the unified development ordinance to allow for the second ground sign on non-resident residential block less than 250 ft of property frontage and to allow the electronic message forward with conditions that the Okay, did I get that No, I'll make deal. Let me turn. Okay.

Okay. So, the motion is approval of a second ground sign on a non-residential lot with less than 250 ft of property frontage with the condition that the sign face be oriented to the west and not to Allisonville Road so that motorists who are traveling either north or south on Allisonville Road uh doesn't doesn't see the digital copy the face of the digital copy. Correct. Okay. So, we have a motion. Do we have a second? I'll second. Have a motion to second.

Mr. Yes. Mr. Sylvie. Yes. Mr. Stevenson. Yes. Mr. Lannon. Hi. Mr. Fui. Yes. That aspect passes. Uh the second request is that that signage, that second ground sign allow for an electronic message board. Again, it would be oriented to the west, not to to the uh to Alisonville Road. So, we have Do we have a motion?

I'll make that Greg. I'll make that motion also assuming the conditions that the staff has regarding the approval letter and the related documentation being recorded on the property with the Hamilton County Recorders Office. If I may amend your motion that they uh comply with all lighting standards for electronic digital message boards as as it exists under u for quicks serve restaurants. Yes, I'll accept that as a part of the motion. Did you get that K? So, has made a motion and my second comes from Greg. Greg,

okay, sir, do you understand what we're looking? Yes, we absolutely agree. Okay, so we have a motion. We have a second, secretary. Okay, Mr. Ginslade, yes. Mr. Sylvie, yes. Mr. Stevenson, yes. Mr. Lannon. Hi, Mr. Fuuchi. Yes. So, that passes as well. Sir, may I interrupt real quick? Mr. Landing and Mr. Sturgite, could you ensure that your mic is on? Thank you.

Thank you, Chris. Uh, so we have the third aspect of this, which is to allow all-mounted drive aisle signs to be six square feet in size rather than four square feet. Do we have a motion? Motion. Mr. Sylvie moves that uh motion to approve. Motion to approve. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Do we have a second? Second. Secretary.

Mr. Ginslave. Yes. Mr. Sylvie. Yes. Mr. Stevenson. Yes. Mr. Lannon. I. Mr. Fui. Yes, that ma that motion passes as well. Thank you very much.

Thank you, sir. Uh before I move to the next public hearing, if anyone is here for the Verizon matter, we had a couple people enter just after 6 PM that those have been withdrawn. So, if you're here for uh the telecommunications petition, we're not uh we won't be entertaining that. So, please feel free to to leave. Seeing no one and I'm glad for that. We're going to move to the next public hearing public matter which is BA-25-27. The petitioner is Christ the Saver Colombarium land use. Address is 10500 East 126th Street. consideration of a land use variance from section 5.1.5 of the city's UDO to allow a cemetery use in an R3 zoning district for the placement of a colombarium. Okay. This request is also being in conjunction with VA-25-28. Is it Mr. Bite?

Thank you, sir. Um, please step forward and proceed.

Good evening. Before Mr. Buck height. I'm pastor Brian Dar, a tenure uh resident of Fischers and during that time I've served as lead pastor at Christ the Savior Lutheran Church. So, thanks for hearing us tonight. Um, we've also brought with us some of our uh leadership team. So, Scott Dyke is our administrator who's done a lot of the frontend work on uh everything to do with this. uh as well as uh Steve Moros, our current uh president of the congregation and Mark Smith who's leading the team to help us beautify uh the space at our property. Uh part of which is the hope to have that columbarium. Um we've also been working closely with site architecture folks Emily and Brad Smith and thrilled for their skill. Um, Christ the Savior has a 40 plus year of serving in our community and we're excited about this beautifification process as a means of continuing to invite folks to enjoy the property that we have at 126th Street. I'll turn it over to you, Kevin.

Thank you, Rody. Thank Miss Bennett. Thank you. I

think this is my first time before you in this venue, so I may need some help with technologies as we go here. Um, my name is Kevin Buckite and as Rodney said, I am a land use planner by education and experience working for the law firm Creek Developed in their Carmel office. Here today to represent Christ and Savior Lutheran Church in these two applications that are before you. Um the property site is approximately 34 plus acres. Um the improvement area around the proposed column area the memory garden area is about 1.4 acres and each of the colar structures are approximately 50 square feet in a footprint just to give some perspective of all this. Um, this is located on the north side of East 126th Street, approximately 3,400 ft east of CL, I'm sorry, Cumberland Road. And the address is 10500 East 126th Street. Um, this location has the church building and the surrounding grounds that include areas for recreation, the garden, and then the paved parking and drives. Um this uh location is is surrounded by residential zoning and by residential land uses um on all sides. There is another church generally directly across the street. And the only other zoning district that comes into play beyond R2, R3, R4, and PUD R would be the I69 overlay. and that only extends to 126th Street. So, does not affect this property. Um the request before you, the first one, and and I'll do the combined presentation for you today. Um just to keep it moving forward, um the church is proposing to add Colar structures to the property. We'll have some graphics to

share with you shortly. Um Colarium is not listed in the UDO use table. Um but so it fall under cemetery. Um the definition for cemetery is land use for the burial of the dead and dedicated for cemetery purposes including colombaria crematoras um mausoleiums and mortuaries when they are operated in conjunction with and within the boundaries of the cemetery. The narrow focus of the request is not a cemetery under that definition but the column area part of this. that we had to fall under cemetery for this this request tonight. Um the Oxford dictionary defines colaria as a room or building with niche niches for funeral urns that hold cremated human remains uh for storage there and again the use variance is required because the cemetery is not permitted in the R3 district. Um no mortuary services will be provided on this site. The development standards variance then is to not require a perimeter wall or fence. The general regulations of the UDO require cemeteries to have a wall or a fence because this is very pinpoint um request for colar structures that are interior to the overall site going to be buffered by landscaping and the existing landscaping on the perimeter. Um we're requesting to not have to do the wall or um uh fence in that area. The co the um the column area are architectural structures and I'll show you those details shortly here. Um it's part of an area of the the church property that they've identified for reflection.

Um, and it is separated from the nearby residential properties by uh over over 200 feet to the property line more to the um individual homes themselves. Grace, how do I get to my slides? If you just press the right arrow, then it should cycle through.

There we go. Um, this is I don't know that that caught everything that I had. um put into the slide. Let me describe this to you. The the the church has done some comprehensive planning for their property and they've identified in in activity bubbles within their 34 acres areas for connection, for exploration, for gathering, for growing and this is an area for reflection that is generally south and a little bit east of the bu the church building itself on the property. Um, as I mentioned, the the columbarium structures are about three feet deep by about 13 feet wide between end caps and about six feet tall. There will be two of them. The uh c the the niches themselves come in as a prefab pre-fabricated unit and they're 8 in blocks that allow for the storage of the remains. Um, the other graphic I had was just showing a cross-section that show the support structure underneath the uh the colarium structures. Um the arrows that you see on the uh slide right now are uh indicating the locations of the two colaria. They are very internal to the overall memory gardens area there. Um the um the uh labyrinth that is the red circle in the detailed red circle on this slide is uh already in the ground and it's flush with the surface. But that's kind of an orientation point for some of the rest of these slides for you. Um again this this slide shows though that the distance to the nearest improvement which is a pathway to the property line is about 105 ft. The distance to a feature wall that I will

show you that's part of the memory garden area is about 238 feet. And the distance between the perimeter property line and the nearest point of the nearest column barrier is about 275 ft or just short of a football field length. This is a view of the uh memory gardens area. Very close up perspective of this. The yellow arrow is indicating where one of the column barrier is. Um in the foreground or in the background you see what I the feature wall which is a curve linear structure that rises from the left side to the to the right side. You see the human figures that have been put put in there to help show what the perspective is of the overall design and scale here. And then in the very center you've got the the garden itself with with the cross and the uh benches for sitting for reflection um located throughout. This is from more of a perspective that is would be in alignment with the church directed behind you looking toward the uh the circle the center circle with the cross to col there uh uh indicated by the yellow arrows. All of this landscaping that is shown here is is um sketch landscaping to show you what can be done, what we intend to do on the site uh to beautify it and and make a serene atmosphere for the reflection that is intended for the site. This is from the labyrinth looking toward generally to the south to the uh memory gardens area. Again, the two column barrier indicated by the yellow arrows. And again, the two column barrier. This is an elevated from somewhere between where the labyrinth would be off your left shoulder and the church off your right shoulder.

And then this is a a really elevated sketch here of the whole site showing how the landscaping works, both the hardcape and the softcape. Um where the column barriers are located, the benches, the feature wall, and the center part of the memory garden across. I'll leave that one up. Um, I could spend a lot of time going through the findings of the fact, but I believe you got those as part of um the packet. Um, I'm not going to do that. Uh we believe that we've put forth pretty strong statements that favor um that we do meet all the findings that are required by the state and I ask that they be added into the record as if I had read them to you. Um we've got them both the five findings for the use variance under VA27 and three findings of fact under uh VA28 for to not uh require the fence. Um for the recommended conditions they're the same for both of the petitions that are before you. Uh the first one is the approval letter and relative documentation be recorded in the recorder's office. That one is acceptable. The third condition that the variance be tied to the place of worship. That's acceptable to us. Um the fourth uh condition is that the columnarium shall not expand from the footprint proposed in the variance application. While the design is close to final, it has not be fi been finalized pending the outcome of this process. U so we propose this alternative language for your consideration. Um the final design and location of the column barrier structures and the immediate ground improvements shall be substantially similar to the design and location presented in the variance application

that allows a little bit of wiggle room for the final design tweaks and any other concerns that might be raised here that we need to address. Um but we have presented what is intended. Um but the design again is is not quite final. The second condition is that all landscape elements must be native species per the fiser planting guide. We do object to this condition and let me explain why. Per the Fischer's planting guide, landscape elements for new development are not limited to native species. The guide does not require this limitation to native species only. City of Fischer's Parks Advisory Committee is responsible for the creation and ongoing update of this guide. The guide was last revised and approved in 2021. As a standalone document, this guide represented city policy that had been vetted through a public process. At some point, the guide was incorporated into the UDO section 7 6.7.3 general landscape landscaping standards by an ordinance that was duly adopted by the city council and it made the policy into law. The guide includes, and I'm paraphrasing, general information regarding the desired native and non-native species. again the desired native and non-native species to enhance and promote biodiversity. The following statements all come from the guide. Creating diversity among plantings provides key environmental benefits with a bene with a diverse number of plantings in a specific region. The diversity of the plants will help stabilize the ecosystem. Diversity of plantings is valuable because it balances the ecosystem, protects watersheds, mitigates erosion,

moderates the climate, and provides a vast variety of shelter for animals. Diversity among plantings is important because it encourages more and even new wildlife into the region. This guide includes 19 pages of lists of approved native and non-native plant species for trees, shrubs, ornamental grasses, ground covers, and vines. Native species are not required and non-native species can be used. This is all directly from the guide itself. The conclusion conclusion that I came to is that diversity plantings including its benefits is the reason that Non-native species are approved for planting of fissurers. The church simply wants the opportunity to design the site under the full allowances of the code. UDO section 6.7.3.E E addresses invasive and poor characteristic characteristic species and states that while they shall be avoided uh and not counted toward plant requirements, some species some such species may be suitable in certain c locations under certain conditions. So for all all the good that is derived from the code in the policy guide, the language in both um acknowledges that the list of species both permitted and prohibited may not be absolute. The church will avoid using invasive and poor characteristic plant species and those plants listed as unapproved species in the guide. the church will guide will abide by the guide and the UDO. I don't know whether this policy has um been revised since 2021 through a public process to prohibit non-native species.

My analysis was done with based on what I was able to find publicly and the link to the code that I got from the planning department. Uh, so we respectfully request that recommend recommended condition number two not be included in any motion if you choose to support the variance request before you. Um, I communicate with planning staff this afternoon regarding remmonstrance. They had uh heard of uh we knew of one who was supposed to uh file something and then there was a second one was in favor. The second one was not in favor and I believe they're here tonight. So you'll hear from them directly. Um and with that, our request is that the board respectfully requests that the board approved VA 2527, VA 2528 as presented based on the findings and with staff recommending conditions 1 and three as presented and four as modified. Thank you

staff. Grace Wy, planner with the city officials. Items before you today are as follows. Consideration of a land use variance from section 5.1.5 of the city's UDO to allow a cemetery use in an R3 zoning district for the placement of a columbarium. The second is consideration of a development standards variance from section 5.1.3 sorry 5.3.1B.1 of the city's UDO to allow a columbarium structure to be constructed without a perimeter wall or fence. 10500 East 126th Street is located north of East 126th Street between Cumberland Road and Promise Road. property is zoned R3 and regulated by the city's UDO. The surrounding area, as shown here, is zoned R3, R4, and PUDR residential. Fischer's 2040 comprehensive plan designates this site as suburban residential. Purpose of suburban residential is to include single family residential at two to four dwelling units per acre. The proposed site plan is shown here. The petitioner wishes to build a columbarium for the storage of cremated human remains on the church property. The proposed colarium will be located at least 105 ft from the nearest property line. The red dot on the lower right image shows where the columbarium will be located on the property. First variance is a request to allow a cemetery use which colaria are classified as. The second variance is to allow a cemetery or colaria in this instance without a perimeter wall or

fence. Shown here are elevations and renderings for the proposed colarium. Three public comments have been received. Two were from the same person, so they've been compiled into one. These were from Wendy Johnson of 12793 Turnham Drive. She expressed support for both variances. The second or third the other variant other public comment was from Sandra and Robert Bennett of 10603 How Road who expressed opposition due to concerns about property value, potential future burials of noncremated remains and the health effects of living near human remains. Please note that this variance would not allow any burial nor storage of noncremated remains. Location of the proposed columbarium is shown here by the red dot. Staff has no recommendation to the board of zoning appeals for these requests. Should the board approve VA27 and or VA28, staff recommends that it's done with the following conditions. The approval letter and related documentation be recorded on the property with Hamilton County Recorder Office. All landscape elements must be native species per the fiser planting guide. Varants shall be tied to the use as a place of worship unless otherwise approved by the department of community and economic development. Colarium shall not expand from the footprint proposed in the variance application. Uh staff does not have an issue with the proposed modification to point 4 that the petitioner mentioned. Um substantial substantially similar would be acceptable to us. And then fifth, which was not included in the staff report, but staff has added um for the presentation is that when the property ceases to be used as a place of worship, all remains should be removed from the property. Uh staff is available for questions. Um

particularly happy to answer any questions on native plants as those did come up in the petitioner's presentation. Thank you. Members of the board, do we have questions for the petitioner or staff? I do have a question for the staff. Um 2527 talks about allowing cemetery use in an R3 and there's reference to the columbarium, but cemetery use to me also implies coffins and six feet down in the ground.

So how do we enforce just the colari? Um so uh part so the variance states that it is for the use of a columbarium. Um so then the variance would be restricted to only allow a columbarium not all things associated with cemetery use. So we're wanted to add an additional condition to make extra survey you could but the intent is for a columbarium to be allowed. The intent is not for um graves or anything of the sort to be allowed. Did you hear that sir? Mr. But

is there is there an objection or for that voluntary condition of it just being a colarium and not for not at all. That's that's our intention regardless. And just to clarify, the fifth condition that made it on the screen but not in the report is acceptable. C could you speak up a little bit, please? It's my voice. Uh the fifth condition that was on the screen but not in the report is also acceptable. Okay. Additional. Okay. That was number five. Yes. Yes, believe on on the approval list. Okay. Uh members of the board, any other questions for petitioner or staff?

I guess one question. I guess it's historical as a question. I think I recall us having a similar issue like this several years ago and it may have been by Heartland Church um regarding a similar situation. Is that correct? Yes. There was a a petition for a columbarium at H Heartland Church in 2021 that was approved. Okay. Thank you. Um and and just to repeat, I think you said that the staff does not have a problem with uh the Fischer planting guide getting away from native plants. Is that right? Did I

um the staff does not have a problem with the change language um regarding the condition for the footprint. Um staff would like the native to remain as a condition. Okay. Thank you. At this time, I'm going to open the public hearing. If you're here to speak to this petition, please raise your hand. Okay. So, we've got two folks. Ma'am, why don't you step forward, state your name and your address, and then back

we'll uh we'll have other folks go. The only thing I ask is that a couple things. First, your comments are limited to three minutes. And if you have heard something from the person before you, please let us know that you echo or reiterate what they had to say and give us new information rather than just repeat what the person said before you because we we take each comment. We're we reflect on those. In fact, if there's our decision-making, there's no need for you to repeat the same thing for the person in front of you. So, go ahead.

Hi, I'm Sandra Bennett. I'm here. Sorry, I'm nervous. I never do stuff like this. I'm here on behalf of myself and Robert Bennett. We live directly where we'll be in sight of visual of the 10603 How Road. We were the number two I think up there. Thank you.

Um so I'm on behalf of us as a residents and also on behalf of Pleasant View Homeowners Association. I represent them here also. Um, our concern is that if we use this as a cemetery, because it is a cemetery and as you stated that makes you think burials, could this open the door in the future? There is a large area at the church that that could be something they want to go for in five years and then we're living next door to a true cemetery. What we all think in regards to a cemetery. Um, with that that also makes us think of our house property values. You know, we all want a good average price for our house when we go to sell. And I don't want a buyer to walk away from my house because they can look out and see a cemetery in my backyard. I mean, that's just not something that I want um nor if I wanted to live by a cemetery, I would have bought by a cemetery. Um those are just not things that we want in our yard um to have to see.

Thank you, Bill. Appreciate your comments. Thank you. I think there was a

Please approach the podium and state your name and address please. My name is Becky McNichols and I live at 11146 Stratford Drive, the parks at White River. And I would just encourage the zoning committee to support the native plant rule because it's very critical for us to continue to start putting native plants everywhere because we're overrun with invasive plants that are not good for wildlife and they are not good for our community. Thank you. Sir, please step forward. I

uh I own the home at uh 12724 How Road and looking at the map configuration for the placement of this colarium. It's almost directly behind that home. Okay. And I think I saw that there's supposed to be a 200 foot from the property line in I didn't understand where the parking was going to be that was shown in the map. Okay. Uh another question that I have whenever you do have and someone called it a cemetery and basically it is you have services at that cemetery when people are laid to rest. How is that going to be handled? because sometimes there's a lot of noise, things going on that could uh not be good value of the home in that area. So, I have a concern about that. Uh the plant species, I would not want non-native plants because it'll blow right into the yard if there are seeds. Don't need to deal with that. And my biggest concern again, uh, property values, as someone else has said, that it could negatively impact that area, especially where we're at because we're right there. And I I just don't think that's a good idea. And I also question the positioning of where this is. Why is it in that location and not further into the property uh where it wouldn't affect houses and their value?

Thank you. We'll we'll have the petitioner uh perhaps the pastor and the petitioner as attorney address some of your comments. You had questions about parking. You had questions about services that take place at you know. And then finally, you had questions about the location on the parcel. So yes, Mr. Buckite, would you like to step forward and address some of those things for us? Uh excuse. Thank you. Is there anyone else from the public here to speak to this petition? I see a hand up from anyone else from the public.

Well, I'm not sure. I'm sorry. Ma'am, ma'am. Ma'am, anyone from the public? who who's who who saw the official notice and is here as a result of the notice that was placed on the property. Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing. Okay, Mr. Buckeye, my intent here is to answer questions for your neighbors so they understand the project in totality.

Absolutely. Um the request on the use variance application is very narrow. We had to advertise under cemetery because that's where Colombarium is included um in in the ordinance, but our request is only for Colombia and nothing else that's in the cemetery uh definition. There will be no mortuary services on this site for the burial or for the placement of the gains. Um So if the church in 10 years or 15 years wanted to do more or something different, they would be right back here under the UDO to have this discussion again. Public hearing would be required, notice would be required, and this conversation would start a new for the proposed additions. That's not in the plans though. But the opportunity to speak again if it were to happen is there. It's it's baked into the process. Can't really talk about home values because that would be all over the map. We have the required distances for cemetery structures from property lines. Um and frankly once the entire um memory gardens area is constructed and landscaped the two column area structures are a very minor part of that and they're going to blend into the overall atmosphere of the memory gardens and anybody stopping by or having to glance that way is not really going to recognize those structures as a cemetery. That that's that's my position on that. Um I'm going to skip ahead to the last speaker. Um talking about services pastors.

Yeah, I would say that um Lutheran aren't known for rockus funerals. So uh most of the time when we're talking about both the position of it and any service that would happen there, the reason that the position is within proximity to the uh church building is that there is the possibility that we would have a service inside the church building and then move and do the um in earnment. Uh at that time the only possible thing I could foresee that would be uh making noise would be if we had a military veteran who was getting honors uh the 21 gun salute. I don't know what the rules are about that, but that's the only thing that uh that would possibly be of a noise level that could be problematic to our neighbors. I also just want to say I'm grateful that our neighbors are sharing their uh thoughts on this and mention that really the overall plan for the property is to create a more park-like structure where it's an inviting space for folks to have a place to reflect, to to pray, to uh simply dwell. And so, um, as with our community garden, which has been a amazing connection to our community, we look forward to these areas, uh, being able to explore, uh, for our neighbors and a place of reflection and repost. So, thank you.

Thank you. And finally, ma'am, one other question. Uh there was a question about parking associated with this project area and there are a few spaces that are added off of the main drive into the the church grounds itself and that will be on the far side of any of the uh residences to the east. So it's just a few and farthest removed for this project area. Um lastly uh we'll talk Emily will talk about the limitation on native plant species.

My name is Emily Smith. I'm a landscape architect with site architecture and we've been working with Christ the Savior to develop these um plans. Um I hope this is not ours. Grace, how how would I access some of those images we have? Paul, are you able to bring the PowerPoint back? Give us just a second and then it'll come back. Um, I would like to speak to the kind of overlay requirement of having native only species.

I I I appreciate that and and your colleague there spent 15 minutes talking about native plants and non-native plants probably as long as the calibarium. So, if you could just summarize for us what you want to say about native versus non-native, that would be helpful. That's what I plan on doing. Please. Thank you. I am a landscape architect and he is a planner. These are planners. So, I'm actually the only person that can really talk about that in the room right now. Um,

what I want to say is that it's really been an honor for me to design a space like this. And the objective of the space is to have a place of beauty and reflection um for the church members to come to. And with that brings um a more intentional design. And when we're limited to native only plants, it's much harder to do that because their blooms are less predictable. They are not part of the more um I guess traditional like nursery plants which have been bred to be um pestfree um lowmaintenance, low watering. They're just suited um to be the best type of plant to care for with a lowmaintenance um desire. Um so, okay. Is this what I have now or Sorry. I just wanted everyone to know that we have concerns about native plants going.

Is there a specific slide you'd like? There's a plan that since we'll be planting we won't be using so

which I'm a plant lover so I understand that and right now just so you know we're planning on this area being a pollinator garden so this is probably about 75 to 100% native planting perennials and grass. So that is what this is. This is more dedicated to our memorial space. So we would like predictability um and more long-term beauty. And um I suppose you guys are familiar with peony with roses with hydrangea with dillies which I don't even think we have dillies but these are recognizable plants that you can assume I know it'll bloom in this month or for this duration where native plants are they do have their beauty and their place this memorial garden is not it. Um, I would also just like to mention, um, well, I actually forget what I was going to say. Um, do you guys have any questions about the native plant takes? Oh, I did want to know what is your purpose for wanting only native plants?

Would the board like staff to answer that question? the purpose of I think we've heard enough unless you gentlemen have any more questions about non-native and native plants I think

okay I just wanted to mention down the road guys Christian it has been somewhat of a campaign for people like me to try to educate the public that native plants are more than a weed patch because often when you do have just like maybe a native seed mix that's interpreted by the public as a weed patch it kind takes a more educated I'm glad we have here to understand the the value and I do understand the value of native plants and fishers. I'm just saying this very specific area should not be required to only have native plants. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, so we're at a point folks where if we have no more questions, we're prepared to entertain a motion from the board. Can I ask a question of the public here please? Ma'am, I have a question for you.

Question off. Everybody take a deep breath. We're going to be good. If you have a question, ma'am, approach the podium. Ma'am, you're done. Thank you very much. I'm sorry. You just said ma'am. Were you talking to me? I I didn't say anything to you. Someone said I had a question you back up. We have a question. I didn't say anything. I I guess the only question that that we have is if this is a place to have people do memories and just a nice garden, why do we have to have human remains in it? Why can't we just have it a nice garden for people to come to? That's my only question. We'll take that as as a comment. Ma'am, I still have a question. So we

earlier when you first approached the podium you said that you represented the HOA. Yes, I'm part of the board for the HOA. Do you have a letter to that effect? Do you have a vote from the HOA? Do you have anything else that says that besides you? Just the board discussed it. I didn't realize I would need to bring a letter or anything. Okay. And to clarify, are you speaking on behalf of the entire board of the HOA? Yes. Thank you. Okay. So, we've closed the public hearing for the second time. Uh, and now we're prepared to entertain a motion. I'll make a motion. Go ahead.

I make a motion that we do not approve VA25-28 and VA25-27 due to the potential uh detrimental to property values in the area. Second. So, we have a motion and we have a second. Can we have comments before the vote? Sure. Yeah.

Appreciate the motion. Um, I would, you know, we'll have the vote here in a second, but I would have voted yes in favor of the petitions. However, limited to the narrow scope of um the Coline there as opposed to a a actual burial. um and also the recommendations of the staff, you know, but just wanted to make those comments before we So, we have a motion. We have a second to deny the petition. Um if I may have a point of procedure, why don't we take 27 first because if 27 is denied, then 28 27 go. Okay.

So, why don't we go ahead and uh entertain a motion on VA-25-27. Okay. Go ahead, sir. Uh, then I make a motion that we not approve V8-25-27 due to potential land or property value issues. We have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. Mr. Landing. Second. Okay. Go ahead and call a roll. Mr. Green Slate. Uh, yes. Mrs. To deny. Uh, Mr. Sylvie, no.

Mr. Mr. Stevenson, no. Okay. Mr. Lannon, I Mr. Fuji, no. So, that petition fails. So, do we have another motion?

Yes. I'll make a motion that we approve um VA-25-27 with the recommendations um by the staff. The it's not on the board anymore. Number one, that the approval letter and related documentation be recorded on the property with the Hamilton County Recorders Office. Two, all landscape elements must be native species per the Fischer's planning guide. Three, variances shall be tied to use as a place of worship unless otherwise approved by the Department of Community and Economic Development. Four, the columbarium shall not expand from the footprint proposed in the variance application. And five, when the property ceases to be used as a place of worship, all remains shall be removed from the property.

So, we we have actually two two motions, right? I'm sorry, two two matters. VA-25-27. Let's take them one at a time. Sure. Okay. So that on 27 we're being asked to allow a cemetery use in R3. You had made a comment, Mr. Stevenson, about just being calarium, not physical burial. Yeah. So I would want that to be a part of the motion that I know they had to file it under the cemetery use. Um but I would want to focus on narrowing it to the columbarium use and no expansion of that use. Believe the petitioner is in support of that. Thank you. Okay. So, we have that as a motion. Do we have a second? Second. Motion. Second.

Mr. Grenley. No. Mr. Sylvie? Yes. Mr. Stevenson? Yes. Mr. Lannon? Nay. And Mr. Fucci? Yes. So that motion passes. So now we have VA-28 VA, excuse me, 25-28. So Mr. Stevenson, you had a motion.

Yeah, I have a motion for VA-25-28 as well to motion to approve um that um petition as well um subject to the um following conditions from the staff um as enunciated one through five. Yeah, I'll repeat those. Number one, um staff does not have a quibble with the petitioner's request to have point4 be develop or um substantially similar. If you would like to alter what is in the presentation to allow the colarium footprint to be substantially similar to what's been presented rather than exactly just an note before you give your condition.

I can barely hear you, Grace. Is are you saying the staff is okay with that? staff is okay with the footprint being substantially similar to what's presented, not identical. that would be relevant to point four listed on the um there was some discussion that the final design is not quite prepared and that uh the columbarium uh shall as as presented in the application is substantially similar in design and location versus that it shall not expand from the footprint proposed. Okay.

Did I say that correctly? Yes, you so you can include what's written there, but the petitioner did request um what Mr. Fuji said and staff is fine with that change from what's written. Thank you. I'll make that a part of the motion. Secretary, did you catch that or do you need us to repeat it? We'll repeat it

somehow. I don't know if I'll get it verbatim. Uh motion to preview approve VA-2528 um with the staff recommendations. Um the approval letter and related documentation to be recorded on the property value with the Hamilton County Recorders Office. Um all landscape elements must be made of species per the Fischer's planning guide. Um varants shall be tied to use as place of worship unless otherwise approved by the Department of Community and Economic Development. the columbarium shall be substantially similar as presented

um as presented um in their application from the petitioner and then when the property ceases to be used as a place of worship all remains shall be removed from the property. Did we succinctly summarize that? Hopefully we have a motion. Do we have a second? I will second that motion. All right. Mr. Ginslade, no. Mr. Sylvie, yes. Mr. Stevenson, yes. Mr. Lannon, nay. Mr. Fui,

yes. I'd like to thank everyone for their patience and their input and their comments on this. So, we'll move on. Do we have any old business? Any new business? staff communication. Okay, I'm going to close this evening's board of zoning appeals meeting.