City Council Work Session - Regular Meeting

. . . . So, Thank you.

All right, good afternoon, everyone, or good evening. We will call our Monday, June 8th Fibber City Council meeting to order. We welcome those who are joining us in the audience, those who will be joining us remotely. We welcome you. At this time, we will begin with our prayer invocation. I ask that Pastor Roger Pascal of the Cliffdale Community Church, Pastor, will come. We ask that all would please stand for the prayer and immediately following the Pledge of Allegiance. Good evening, Pastor.

Good evening. Good evening. Thanks for allowing me to be here. Let us pray. Lord, we come to you tonight with gratitude, with humility. We thank you for allowing us to gather in a system like this where we can share our opinions and share our voices and still do so in a peaceful and orderly way. We thank you that we're a part of a system and a nation that allows us as a people to affect change, to affect policy, to affect leadership and to affect laws. We thank you for the servant's hearts of the men and women that serve on this council. We thank you that they are so willing to give freely of their time, their energy, their efforts, their attention to do what they believe is best for the people of the city of Fayetteville. And again, we thank you for the passion and the zeal of the people of the city of Fayetteville that they come and stand for what they believe. is right. We ask you now for your guidance, for your direction, and for your peace, and for your humility over the members of the council, the members of the city, and all of us, and that we will bring you praise and honor and glory.

In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Pastor, thank you so much for the prayer. If you want to take a few minutes and tell us a little bit about yourself and your ministry.

Absolutely. Thank you so much. Once again, thank you for the invite to be here tonight. My name is Roger Paschal. Most people know me as Dale. I am blessed to serve as the senior pastor for Cliffdale Community Church and Cliffdale at the Lake Community Church, both located in District 7 under the illustrious representation of Ms. Brenda McNair. And we're so grateful to have her.

How much do you pay for that?

Absolutely. We love Ms. McNair, and we're grateful to have her in our district. We try to do as much as we can for the community. We have unhoused outreach, prison ministry, men's and women's ministry, different outreaches for the community. We just finished up our vacation Bible school for the year and our family fun day, our community, and we participated in the community cookout yesterday. So it's just a blessing to be here in Fayetteville. It's a blessing to be in District 7, and we're just so grateful for all that you guys do.

All right, thank you so much, Pastor. Let's give him a round of applause, please. All right, Council, moving to the announcements. I'll go to Mayor Pro Tem Thompson. Thank you, Ms. Mayor.

Just to make everyone aware that the month of June is Gun Violence Awareness Month. And they would like for you to distinguish that by wearing a touch of orange everywhere you go to let people know that you're in support of gun violence awareness. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Thank you. Councilman Davis.

You had a, okay, all right.

Maybe I saw something different on the SURE system.

All right, council, any other announcements? All right, seeing none, council will move to the city manager's report.

Mr. Hewitt. Thank you, Mayor, and good evening, members of council. Two quick announcements and a brief report by the chief. Next Tuesday, June 16th, we'll have another version of Doug in the District, and this one will be in District 5. It will be at the Dorothy Gilmore Therapeutic Recreation Center, located at 1600 Purdue Drive, and that will be, again, on Tuesday, June 16th at 5.30 p.m. And I'd like to remind everyone again about our Juneteenth Jubilee, which is on June 19th at 5 p.m. in Festival Park. Our artists will be Misha Fair and the headliner will be Kirby. It promises to be another great event put on by Cool Spring Downtown District. And I hope to see everyone there. And then lastly, at our most recent event, public forum, we had several staff members who presented issues related to traffic control officers and speeding in and around school zones. Chief, if you are here, if you could come and just briefly describe what we did before and after and continue to do to address the concerns that we all have about speeding and safety in school zones.

Good evening mayor, city council members, city manager. Yes sir, in regards to the traffic control officers and during the public forum, a lot of those issues that they raised during the forum, they were already raised through their chain of command. And so we explained to many of them that we already have many of the recommendations that they were asking for, such as the school zone cameras that will be coming on. So we also explained to them that that is a process that is actually being Approved through the state to through the commission. So, once that gets approved, we're anticipating that that will take place in January. The other issue regarding folks driving. In there, we're doing a whole lot of enforcement in the school zones throughout the city. I'm sure our citizens are aware of what's going on. We are stopping. Actually, we've had. over 1,500 citations since the beginning of the school year to curve this behavior because it is dangerous. It is actually dangerous in terms of what is happening out there and we just want people to slow down in these school zones. The other thing is in regards to the lights. Many times you may see you can drive at 11 o'clock or 12 o'clock and the lights are on. So we actually address that issue at least on three occasions with Cumberland County Schools. So we have some lights that our TCOs can actually turn on and off. Then there's lights that are timed. So those lights that are timed, we don't have any control over it. And it's Cumberland County Schools that has a electrician, they actually say it's an electrician that has control over that. And so we requested for them to go ahead and fix that so that we won't have these issues where certain times of the day when drivers are going through there, they're just so blind to it because they think it's not working or the schools are not in session. So we've already addressed that with them, so that's something that they have to actually take care of as well. And the third issue, what was the third issue? I can't hear. Okay, the fence, yes. So also right there off of Rayford Road at 71st High School, we looked into that and that issue is actually going to be addressed by Cumberland County Schools because that is their property and that they would have to be the ones to be able to do that as well.

All right, Chief. Thank you. Council Member Green.

I just want to give a quick shout out to the chief and to traffic services. One of the things that we heard during the public forum was the lack of a four way stop. It was only a three way stop in front of Mac Sabbath. There is now a four way stop there. I came through today and was shocked. There's enhanced pedestrian crossing and there is a four way stop there now. So thank you very much. Not sure exactly who is responsible, but whoever takes the credit, I'm thrilled.

Thank you, Traffic Services, yes.

All right, Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Chief, let me just say that I commend Major Hunt and his team in having those TCOs out there on posts, recognizing the deficiencies that we can improve on and keeping our youth safe. I believe, how many more TCOs do we need to have every school covered?

Well, we have up to 65, but it fluctuates because it's a rotating issue in terms of making sure that we maintain those positions vacant. I mean, filled. So it's a rotating we were. Fully staff would probably be about 70.

Well, I've been advocating at all of my community events for all those who would like to become a TCO, contact their crime prevention specialist to give them information on how they can. So I appreciate the work that you guys are doing. Yes, sir.

And, Chief, final question before we let you go. You have a time frame on the light repairs. You said some with some coordination with electricians. You have a time frame?

So that is outside of our control. We brought it up. on at least three occasions regarding that. To who? The schools? To the superintendent and their staff.

So maybe we'll reach out and see if we can help. Yes, sir. If we can give, does the manager have the specific sites that were referenced?

So one of the things that was told to us was that They didn't budget or they didn't have budget to get these particular repairs taken care of. But we've also had some dialogue with some of the vendors that we're looking at, and we also addressed that issue with them. And they believe that they would be able to remedy those situations as well.

All right. Does the manager have the sites though? So if we reach out to Dr. Bracey or send something to the school board, is there a certain number of sites?

Yes, sir. We can get that information, sir. All right.

All right.

Thank you, chief. All right. Thank you. Thanks.

All right. Uh, Dr. Hill, do you have anything further? All right. So council with, um, Moving to the approval of the agenda, Dr. Hughes, you had one of your items that you were looking to council to consider removal of. You want to speak to that?

Let's see. 7.086. And I think it was, was it Blue Street and the policies, sir?

Well, I think council is going to remand that to a work session. So let me address that with them.

It's just the item that... Well, we will bring back, if council would like, 7.0A3, which is, I think, a revision to the council policy that deals with nonprofits.

So... so a3 and a6 you're looking to approve with the exception of those is that what you're asking council i'd that'd be great sir all right is that quick Yeah, we're on the approval of the agenda, but there was going to be an item taken off, which would have been 06, the one he mentioned upstairs.

So what it would look like, Mayor, is we will, with Council's permission, we'll bring back A03 on June 22nd. And then I think, Council, based on what your interests were, was to discuss A6 at Thursday's budget work session.

Okay. All right, so council, if we can have a motion to approve the agenda, the removal of A3 and A6. So moved, sir.

All right.

All right. Is a motion by councilman here? Second by Ferguson? I mean, McMillan?

Is that a second? No, it's a separate item to pull from agenda. Okay. All right.

Is that a second, Council Member Ferguson? All right. Is the motion by Council Member Ferguson is seconded by, I mean, motion by Council Member Harris, seconded by Ferguson. Discussion? All right. Council, I look to you for your votes on that.

Excuse me, Ms. Mayor, I don't think you understood me. I have a separate, a couple of separate items to pull from the agenda. Is that going to, are you going to come up to me for those?

Yeah, so we're coming to consent. So I'll call on you. Okay. All right. So motion carries for 6.0. Now we're at 7.0. So count.

Excuse me, Mayor Colvin. He's, he's, this is the item from upstairs that he wants to add. So it would need to be done before the agenda is approved.

Agenda is approved. So you're pulling not one of the consents you're looking to add, what you talked about upstairs.

What we talked about upstairs was also the item that we mentioned upstairs, 7.0A4. That's the standardization of peer city analysis pool for discussion.

Right. Okay. Yeah, well, that was kind of under the consent. That's coming next. All right. All right. All right. Council, we clear on that? All right, let's clear the board when we take the vote. There's a motion by Hare. Second. Seconded by Ferguson to approve with the removal of A3 and 6. Right. The other items on consent we'll address, and Councilman McMillan, I'll be coming to you in a minute. Is that what you?

Yeah, you're not forgetting the last item, though, 11 point. Are you? We discussed this upstairs.

We haven't got to the 11 points yet.

Okay.

Right on.

Got you. All right.

Yeah. So, there's a motion on the floor by Harris, second by Ferguson. to approve with those changes. Now, Council Member McMillan has asked, you had an item you wanted to add, because that needs to be heard before this motion on the floor goes through. If you're looking to add. Now, the 7.04 and the consent to pull for a separate vote, we can, we'll get there.

Yeah, would like to add an agenda item pertaining to a motion to approve a moratorium on data centers in Fayetteville.

All right, so that would take an amendment to the motion, correct?

He's asking to... Madam Attorney? Yes, sir, Mayor Colvin. The first step would be to add to the agenda the motion to reconsider, so asking council to reconsider that.

All right, but we have a current motion on the floor, so I'm trying to see how to dispose of it. Is that an amendment request?

It could be a friendly amendment at this point. You already have a motion in the second.

Right. And so I wouldn't, wouldn't be able to withdraw it. So, uh, the makers of the motion is, are you looking to amend your current motion to include what he just mentioned? But I don't think we can do it that way because you need a super majority, correct?

Right. So what you've done is asked to approve the agenda with those changes. You can split those out and take each of the motions. The motion to delete and the motion to add separate.

Gotcha. All right. All right. So we'll split that. So the first motion on the floor is to delete A3 and A6. Okay. All right, so we'll take a vote on just that, and then the next vote will be for the consideration of what Council Member McMillan said. All right. All right, Madam Clerk, who, okay. All right, motion carries. All right, now, for clarification, Madam Attorney, the motion to add that, and then if that goes, then that's when the motion of reconsideration.

Yes, sir.

Okay, I got you. All right, so Council, the second component to that is Councilman McMillan's motion before the agenda is approved to add 11 point, I guess it would be 11.01A to set a public hearing for moratorium, which is the motion on the floor. Is that correct, Councilman McMillan?

That's correct.

All right. Does he need a second? He needs a second for that. Mr. Mayor, one second.

I need clarity. Is it for a public hearing for a moratorium or is it for a moratorium?

For public, you can't set the moratorium without a public hearing. That's the first step. So it would be a public hearing for it.

Okay, because earlier, okay, I thought I heard before a moratorium.

Okay, thank you.

All right. All right. Is there a second?

Okay, so I'm sorry. Madam Clerk. Madam Attorney. I'm sorry, Mayor Coleman, for not being recognized first. I just want to clarify. The motion here will be whether we add it to the agenda. Right. If that is approved, then the motion will be to reconsider. And we can't. adopt a moratorium or set a public hearing for one without the moratorium ordinance.

Right. So, so it's multi, right. But first step is if we're even talking about this tonight is to add it, add it and then reconsider. All right. All right. So as much about council member McMillan, there is a question.

Yes, sir. Thank you. A matter of a term. How does the 120 day policy and play into that? I know it's a lot of moving pieces.

Yes, sir. That is why the motion to reconsider is required, because council already acted not to have a moratorium. So this is asking the council to reconsider that decision.

Okay. I wanted to provide some clarity for some residents from earlier this morning. Thank you. All right. This motion by Council Member McMillan. Is there a second?

All right. Motion fails for lack of a second. All right. All right. All right, so next we'll move to the consent items. And just for clarity, tonight we have a lot of important work for the city. We appreciate all the residents who are here tonight and the passion, the zeal. As the pastor said, we will try to maintain, we're going to maintain order in here, okay? And so if you can work with us, we certainly don't mind any expression at the appropriate times, but we still have to get on with the business of the people of the city. So we'll look to have a good, productive evening. regardless of our excitement or not on any item. So now we're moving to the consent.

Mayor?

Yes, ma'am.

I'm sorry. You guys still need to actually approve the agenda because you only moved to remove 7.083 and 7.086.

All right. So the next item is the approval of the agenda. Let me clear the boards for me, Madam Clerk.

If I may, Mr. Mayor. Yes, sir. I just want to also remind you, we need to come back to that item 11 for removal. Yes, sir. Right. Thank you.

Yeah. All right. Can you clear the board for me? No. No. Here we go. All right. So, Council, this is a motion to approve the agenda. Mr. Mayor. All right, there's a motion by Mayor Pro Tems.

Who's the second on the approval of the agenda?

All right, seconded by Davis. All right, council look to you for your vote. All right, Madam Clerk, motion carries unanimously. Agenda's approved. Seven point consent items. Council Member McMillan, 7.084.

Yes, Mr. Mayor, thank you. I would like to make a motion to pull item 7.084 as approval of standardization of pure city analysis for discussion.

All right. So is that a motion to approve with that exception? Yes. All right. All right. Councilman Green, you had something?

I'm not exactly understanding the motion or I can second it for discussion.

So I think he wants to pull it for up or down vote.

Oh, well we already did that, right? No, no. Okay.

So we removed items and this was a little tricky tonight. So we removed items from the overall agenda, which were happened to be in that same section. And so now we're about to approve consent with the exception of this item that he wants pulled separately.

Okay. I will second.

Second. All right. Second by council member green. Any discussion on 7.0 a four, but the approval,

I'm sorry, Mayor Colvin. Council Member Green, did you still want to pull Policy 135.01?

Yeah, we pulled it completely off tonight.

We moved that to June 22nd. Sorry. Thank you. That's okay. Thank you. All right.

All right. So there's a motion by Council Member McMillan to approve the consent with the exception of 7.084, which will be taken for a separate vote. All right. Council, I look to you for your votes on that. All right, motion carries. Council Member McMillan, 7.084.

Yeah, I made a motion to pull that.

Yeah, so it's for an up or down vote. What would you like to do with it?

Yes, of course, my own motion.

You have the floor, sir.

Yeah, we'd like to make a motion to pull that for discussion. Yeah, it's pulled.

So now we're discussing it, so I'm going to turn it back over to you.

Peer city analysis. Council Member Hondros, remember when this discussion first came up, had some valid reasons for having a solid list of 10 cities that we can look at as peers to guide the staff in much of our decision making. I had some thoughts during that night that I think have developed a little bit more into something I at least want to bring up. In terms of pure city analysis and staff direction, I would hope that staff also understand that city council expects us to look at peers beyond North Carolina and beyond that 10 city list. I thought about the legacy of North Carolina as a Jim Crow state. I thought about North Carolina being ranked close to last in terms of education spending. I thought about North Carolina being repeatedly listed as one of the worst states for workers in the nation. And all of the things that we need to correct in North Carolina to have a fair and equitable Fayetteville. and do not want to get staff in the mode of only looking at those 10 in direction, especially when it comes to innovation, especially when it comes to living up to our moniker as a can-do city. So I wanted to say that in discussion and also open that up to my peers for any discussion or any input. But I would hate for staff to get that 10 and limit us, especially when it comes to things like independent oversight, especially when it comes to innovations like Office of Community Safety, to having North Carolina as being as far as we look. There are cities that have been doing independent oversight, especially a city like Philadelphia has been doing it since the 80s, and I think it's only a legacy or the shadow of Jim Crow that really prevents us from moving forward on levels or issues of equity and fairness. So that's what I wanted to say, and I wanted to make sure that that was on the record for staff, especially as they do deep dives into things that could be innovative and could really move us forward. So thank you for that opportunity. And would love to hear from my colleagues on that as well.

All right.

Council Member Green, you had your light on?

Yes, I do. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I think that when this was originally made, this was made in the spirit of being a little bit more consistent than we have been in the past. Because sometimes we expected staff to be able to read our minds and have this sense of they knew what we were always thinking, and I don't think that we practice that very well. I think there are times to deviate, and I think this allows deviation from that 10 to your point. I understand, I mean, there are many times that y'all hear me talk about, and particularly in work sessions, about New Bern. I think New Bern does a lot of really great things in their downtown that we miss out on. I realize New Bern has water that we don't have necessarily, but... I think there are a lot of cities that are considered our peers that aren't necessarily of the same size and the same demographics. And that's why this list was originated. I don't think it was meant to be the list that nobody can deviate from at all. It was just a guiding post maybe. That was my sense of it anyway. So I hope that helps some. It was discussed at length last year in the UDO discussions.

Thank you, Council Member Green. Council Member Jones. Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor. That was my question as well, and you all can correct me if I'm wrong, especially you, Councilman Honduras. My understanding of it was it is not a total list, only 10. And I can be corrected, so I just want to make sure I'm only 10. It was to make sure that when we do, when staff does do the peer evaluations, that peer evaluations, that they at least look at these 10, because I'm reading here where it also says, where applicable, staff will supplement local peer comparison with national best practice research to ensure FedVis policy services and programs are evaluated against the standards of municipal government. sources, and then it lists national guidance areas. So I just wanted to make sure, and Councilman Honduras, you can definitely help clarify with that, if I am mistaken in that as well. All right. Thank you, Councilman Jones.

Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Let me emphasize that Fayetteville is unique. It's hard to compare Fayetteville to other municipalities when we have We have different structures. We have different workforce. We have the largest military. in the world right at our next door. These are the things that we discuss when we talk about host military communities. Those are the ones that we should be comparing to because they are compared to us by having the military. The military is a great impact on what it does for and sometimes what it does against our community. So when we talk about peer cities, these are the things that we need to take into consideration. Uh, and on another note, North Carolina is one of the fastest growing states. I think it's the third fastest growing state in the United States. So our workforce, as far as economics, is valuable here in North Carolina. We're trying to capture that here in Fayetteville, and it's hard to find that comparison somewhere. It's easy to find it somewhere outside of these 10 cities. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. All right.

And before I go to Councilman Mahindra, I think the bigger piece that we need need to take into account is that the state of North Carolina, the way cities work is they authorize you to do certain things in your charter. And so what North Carolina allows for the cities may not be the same as another city. Now I'll agree. There are some best practices and ideas that you can get from various places. but in terms of some of the things that we deal with, the first question is on a lot of these items is, is it allowed in North Carolina based on whatever it is that we're talking about? So I think that was some of the premise behind just getting the 10 largest ones so that we're not comparing some, we've got some that are larger, we've got some that are smaller and I think we're kind of right in the middle with some of the policy deviation. And again, um, I would say that the entire South has a history, and the way to overcome a lot of that, a lot of those policies that you referenced, Councilmember, were economic policies that people couldn't buy homes, they couldn't get jobs, they couldn't do certain things, and they were bound in certain situations. But I will say that it's also home to some of the fastest growing cities in the country, with Raleigh and Charlotte, Greensboro. and us positioned right in the middle to learn some of the good things that may come up in our comparison, but I think the basis was, because it wouldn't do us any good to get a city from another state, and the law wouldn't allow us to do something, so I remember, I wasn't here when this particular item came up, but I do know that that was some of the background to the thought process. I'll go to Councilman Mahandros, you were the author of this, and then Council, we gotta move.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. You kind of just articulated a lot of it. I was going to ask the city manager and or city attorney to speak to some of the things you just spoke to. So routinely, whatever program initiative we're discussing as an agenda item, staff has already included peer cities from the state for those very reasons you articulated because of the state statutes. But the purpose of codifying the 10 largest cities. So excluding Charlotte, um, we're number six. So you would have four cities with the same state statutes larger in four cities with the same state statutes immediately smaller. So that would give us the, what I felt and what the consensus on council was, was the, the fairest, um, most relatable, uh, comparison. So with that, I'm prepared to make a motion to it.

All right. You have flow, sir.

All right, move that we adopt these Peer City Comparisons Code of Funds.

All right, this is a motion by Council Member Hondros to approve that. It's seconded by Mayor Pro Tem. All right, Council, I think we've had robust discussion, but I'm looking for any more. All right, look to you for your votes. Madam Clerk, who are we missing?

Council Member, never mind.

All right, all right, motion carries. All right, councilors, we move to the eight-point items, the Stormwater Advisory Board Annual Report. Mr. Byron.

Yes, good evening, Mayor and Council. I'm going to pull up the presentation and then turn it over to our SWAB Chair, Mr. Whitaker-Grantis. Good evening. Good evening, sir.

How are you?

Good. How are you doing? Good to see you. I did want to take a quick moment and thank the attendee who let me jump in front of them in line because I don't believe the fire marshal would have let me in otherwise. I had no idea that there were this many people interested in stormwater that were going to come out here and hear me speak. Stormwater is not really as sexy as some of the other topics you guys may have tonight, but it's a very important topic. Infrastructure is not easy. One of the things I want to mention later is it's not quick. We're talking about some projects that have been in progress for years here that are finally ready to go to shovel this year. So the Stormwater Advisory Board is a citizen board made up of nine members appointed for a two-year term. We can do two terms. Councilman Hondros, of course, is a former member and former chair. Our meetings are held the first Tuesday of the month at 5 p.m. It is open to the public. We'd love to have anyone on the council or anyone from the city to please come and find out about what's going on with stormwater. The SWAB, as we call this, the Stormwater Advisory Board, is required by the city's permit for the National Pollution Discharge Elimination System. So basically, we have our duties and our powers are listed on the screen there. And the DAP, the Drainage Assistance Program, is one of the things that we have final authority to approve the DAP projects. How our authority is created is listed here briefly. The federal government creates legislation, flows down to the North Carolina Department of Environmental Protection Agency, flows down to DEQ, then flows down to the city of Fayetteville, and we are a requirement of that. The stormwater program has two parts. We're focused on quality, which is the focus of the MPDES permit, making sure pollution doesn't get into our stormwater runoff. And then quantity. And quantity is the sexier topic, if you will. It is what we all saw during the hurricanes. If you've been here recently, you know that part of our aging infrastructure struggles to put up with the hurricane storms we're having now. Nice little slide. Pictures of some of the stormwater damage that we've seen over the years in Fayetteville. The Stormwater Advisory Board has been very busy. We've gotten educational programs on each of the MPDES program elements. The DAP program, which is a big benefit to people who have houses that are 50 or 60 years old. We've had 14 program requests for that. And I believe in the current budget there's $300,000 allocated to fund that project. We continue to go over the ongoing stormwater capital improvement projects. There are three capital improvement projects that the city is planning to break ground on this year. I think that's exciting. It's something that we talk about a lot in our meetings whenever there's one available. I love to hear about them, how the engineers go through and identify problems in the stormwater system and find creative ways to fix it. And then the watershed studies, of course, are in progress. They've been working on that for probably close to 10 years. I believe we are getting close to the end of those. I want to say that there are two more stormwater studies funded in fiscal year 27, and then they're starting to work on a stormwater master plan to combine the information from that, I think, 10 or 12 different studies together into one action plan. The Hazard Mitigation Grant Program is a FEMA program that uses money to address residences that have been impacted by floodwaters twice in the last 10 years, gives them buyout or either options to be bought out or to have recovery money put into their house and make their house able to take the stormwater floods. The impervious area analysis and tiered rate structure. One of the things that the city funded last year was an analysis on how we are billing commercial properties for their impervious surface. The city did a full geographic analysis with LiDAR and satellite images and all sorts of stuff. over the city and identified areas where we were under billing commercial properties for the amount of impervious space that we have. And I believe we found there was a million dollars in fees. Does that sound about right? About a million dollars in fees that have not been collected before now. They're not gonna go back and collect that money from people who didn't have it collected before, but that's gonna help fund the stormwater program as we put shovels to dirt more and more often. We've got the ARPA-funded stormwater projects. The city's got a great stream gauge and precipitation monitoring program. They continue to add gauges at different streams to help raise awareness. There's also a new program where residents can go through and put an alert, and they will be notified if their stream gauge near their house gets too high. That system's not designed like a 911 system. It's not that reliable, but it is a great indicator that the streams near you are rising. And then we've had two meetings where we've talked about the Cross Creek Channel Improvement Project, which is something directed by council to study downtown stormwater drainage and look at ways to try and improve the fundamental issues with downtown stormwater. I'm excited about that because I think there's an opportunity to create a new greenway downtown that would be used for stormwater retention in a bad storm and that otherwise could be used by residents for recreation. uh... impacts of those updates the community flood maps we just got new maps from female that impact your insurance so if you have a mortgage or more and you're in a floodwater stormwater flood area you can be required to have flood insurance that could be changing in the next year to for you with these new maps capital dashboards projects of the great easy way for citizens and find out where our money are star these are being used for a stormwater projects educational program on street maintenance and divisions those street sweepers that go around one of the reasons that there is not just beauty it's to try and remove debris before it gets into our stormwater system clogs it up and causes more problems that's one of the number one problems causes of flooding in city of fable is the stormwater system gets clogged with something reported on the fafixit app somebody will go out there and check it and unclog it and get the system to be going again you got stormwater drains in front of your house pull out the pine straw that's a huge thing before there's a big storm pull out the pine straw And we had, in my three and a half years on the board, we had our very first appeal of a notice of violation for a developer who's building a subdivision who put a pipe and bypassed the stormwater quality runoff things and basically was just draining his property. And that notice of violation was upheld. As we go forward, we're going to discuss public outreach efforts for the stormwater building. We'll continue to review and approve eligible drainage assistance programs. If you've got a drainage problem at your house, I urge you to call the stormwater hotline. I don't have it memorized, but it's on the city website. And we will hear appeals if there are any more appeals for that. And, of course, the annual review of the stormwater management plan. The issues for the stormwater department, ensuring adequate funding for the compliance with the state and federal, which is basically an unfunded mandate that we have to do things with our stormwater. And then the capital improvement projects that are needed to address some of this aging infrastructure that are not keeping up with the new storms we have nowadays. And then, of course, increased public awareness and community engagement. These are some... Big news things that just happened recently for the stormwater department. A million dollars from the Golden Leaf Foundation. I will let you guys read them. I don't want to go through all of them. But there's a lot of grant money that we've received in the last year. One more. And return on investment, a really big thing, is taking those stormwater fees and making them as impactful as possible, finding grants to help multiply that. It's got a quick list on here. I don't want to spend any more time than I have to reading it, but $11 million in ARPA funding. There's a lot of great funds out there that help make our stormwater fee dollars go further. And then, of course, this is my third and a half year I'm gonna be rolling off this board. This is my second time presenting to you guys as the chairman. Thank you for letting me come up here and do it. I've really enjoyed my time on the board. It is a very fascinating topic. Some of you guys may know me as the bee guy. I also consider myself a stormwater nerd. I've really enjoyed and appreciated the opportunity to both learn about the stormwater and come and talk to you quickly, and the people who just happen to be here to hear about it also.

Thank you.

Council Member Green. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Mr. Grannis. I just want to personally thank you because one of my recent, well, it's been about six or eight months ago probably, time flies. On my radio show, I asked what occurred to come and talk about stormwater, but we also talked For those of you who don't know, he's the local bee guy, too. He's our most knowledgeable, probably one of the most knowledgeable people about bees and beekeeping and honey in the area. So if you ever need a good honey hookup, he's the one. So anyway, thank you. And I did laugh when he told me he considered himself the official stormwater nerd. Thank you. Probably embrace it.

Cool, cool, cool. Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Grandes, I just got a question about the DAP program. That's something that's always been an interest. to everyone on council about how we help those who can't help themselves. As those cases come to you, what is the percentage rate of those being approved and those being disapproved? And how much money is left in the DAP program?

So we are the final step in the DAP process. And so I believe we've got 100% passage rate because it's already gone through about eight or nine gate checks to get to us. I want to say the DAP program has got about a million dollars. No. No, we don't have that. I don't.

Byron, don't quote numbers.

I don't have the exact number of the ballots, but we can get that for you.

Thank you, Byron. And the DAP projects are $500, and the DAP projects are $100,000. And almost all of them deal with infrastructure that's been there since the 1970s or earlier. And so that's what it really is. If somebody buys a house, they have no idea, and then suddenly they have a sinkhole in their backyard, and some developer in 1975 put in a pipe that has now failed after 50 plus years, and that they're now stuck with a bill that there is no way that a small homeowner can actually deal with. I mean, you're talking about a $100,000 bill potentially.

Well, that's why I wanted you to emphasize it to let our residents know that they can apply to this program that will reduce some of the flooding, not just at their homes, but in their neighborhoods.

And that's an urgent issue when people have that problem. And if they call the stormwater hotline, I believe the IT we say service level agreement is a three days, a stormwater engineer will come out and look at the project, take pictures, and do an analysis and see if there's anything the city can do. So it's not this, it may take longer to get the project approved. It's got to go through all those gate checks. But they will send an engineer to your house within three days to actually look at it and find out what's going on.

Thank you for all you do, sir. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

All right. Thank you. Council Member Jones. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just want to thank you for your service and commitment just speaking on what you do. A lot of times the infrastructure part of what municipalities do often coincides are taken for granted sometimes because they're not seen, they're not visible, but they are extremely, extremely important. I know my folks over on Sunbury are extremely excited about the work that had been done there. So Mr. Mayor, if there aren't any other questions, I will be ready to make a motion. I'll circle right back to you. I think Councilman Mahandras pressed this button.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Chairman Grandis. Question for you and or Director Reeves regarding the NPDES permit. That's the National Pollution Discharge Elimination System permit. So that permit is issued to us from the state. Is that correct?

I believe the permit's issued by the North Carolina Department of Environmental Quality. NCDQ. Through the authority of FEMA and through the three national legislatures, or the EPA. Okay.

I appreciate it. And then, so the NPDES issued by NCDQ and the stormwater ordinance, chapter 23 of our code of ordinances, allows the city to, in the way of environmental protections, protect stormwater runoff quantity, as you mentioned, and quality, correct? And this may be a more technical question for Director Reeves. Is there any other, in public services, is there any other environmental protections that the state constitution, general statute, state legislature grants the authority to the city for environmental protections that you're aware of?

Not when it comes to stormwater, no.

What about anything in public services?

No, we do stormwater, so we don't do things like air quality. We don't regulate drinking water. We're strictly stormwater.

Very good, thank you. Jones, if you're gonna make the motion, I'll second it.

All right, so there's a motion by Council Member Jones, seconded by Hondros. Only question I had, Mr. Granitz, is do you have what swab, the information the swab had for the proposed cross creek channel improvement that could serve two purposes? One is storm water retention and the other is recreation. Where about was this located?

We had a presentation, we had two presentations to our group because our group was so interested in the first presentation, we asked them to come back. I have a PowerPoint presentation from the second time that talks about the early, early analysis. I believe they said they had about a 20 or 30% analysis to it. And they basically have looked at the Cross Creek stream and have identified choke points, if you will. Like one of the major ones that's gonna be expensive to fix is one of the railroad lines that goes through there, there's a bridge. that really restricts the amount of water that pushes through there. I'd be happy to.

Yeah, we had talked about it some years ago. So, Byron, you can get that to us later.

Yeah, but they essentially are evaluating from Green Street all the way up to MLK.

Yeah, which could be an opportunity to open that up as an amenity as well, as you were saying before, right in the downtown. So I'd be interested to hear that at some point.

I did have one more quick question, Mr. Mayor. So last year in the budget, we did earmark $100,000 from the Stormwater Enterprise Fund for the quality side. Did we ever come up with any ideas this year on what we can use that for?

The SWAB talked about it. I don't know that the SWAB came up with any ideas. We had a great presentation. I'm sorry.

No, you're fine. No, we're still looking to identify what that $100,000 is going to go to. A lot of the... capital projects that we've been focused on are really addressing flooding and quantity right now.

Yeah, we really want to get out to that quality as well. Thank you.

The violations are eye-opening. What people think they can get away with, pouring down a stormwater drain. I mean, sewage and all sorts of things is remarkable.

All right. Thank you for your work, sir. All right. We have a motion by Council Member Jones, seconded by Hondros. Council, I look to you for action on that. All right, motion carries. Thank you. Thank you for your work. 8.02, Fayetteville County Senior Advisory. All right, hello. How are you?

Good evening, Mayor and City Council members. How are you? I am Jackie Washington Brown, and I am the chairperson for the County Senior Citizen Advisory Commission, and we are happy to be here. We do have a team of 13, and I'm happy that I have my backup, six members of the commission.

They want to wave their hands so we can say hey. All right. Good to see you.

This is my first time as a chairperson to report to you, but we're very happy about that because we take senior citizens very serious. Some of our main goals is to increase senior engagement. We would like to host four community forums throughout Cumberland County to gather information on what the senior citizens need. what their quality of life is, what they are lacking. We also provide resource awareness. We distribute quarterly newsletters or digital advertisement so that we can reach them and help them know what resources are available. We also plan to submit a minimum of three formal recommendations per year to the city and council addressing senior related concerns, i.e., transportation and health care. So those are some of the goals that we are working on. The things that... we are developing right now is a complete senior citizens community needs and quality of life survey. Once we finalize that, we're gonna take that survey out into the community and it's gonna encompass a lot of needs that the seniors have. And once we get the feedback, then we're going to compile that and hopefully we will be able to meet with you. We will invite y'all to our meetings and you can tell us how you can assist us in helping the seniors. We are doing a lot of community outreach and engagement activities at the four senior citizens in the community. And also, we will be providing recommendations to the council based on the feedback that we get from the surveys. Some of our accomplishments thus far, we have developed an informational flyer in which all of you should have. And if anybody else would like a flyer, if you are a senior citizen, we do have some available for you to tell you what our goals are. And also, it also lists a lot of resources. We have created a continual update of the Senior Citizen Commission Facebook page. We do have an active Facebook page, so if you want to know more of how we can help you, you can just go to the Facebook. We supported the Mid Carolina Senior Games by recruiting volunteers and participating in some of the events. We also invite guest speakers, i.e., from Mid-Carolina Regional Council and Council on Older Adults so that we can create a partnership because we all do the same thing. So why work hard when we don't have to? Some of the activities that we are currently doing, we are visiting the four senior citizen, Senior Citizen East, Tokay Senior Fitness Center, the Bill Crisp, and also Spring Lake Senior Citizen so that we can get together and find out what they need in their prospective areas. We're planning community engagement efforts to gather input from the seniors because we're having a hard time with exposing ourselves. We're not getting as much feedback from the seniors as we should. So that is a priority of ours. How can we get feedback from the seniors so that we can let them know what we can do to better assist them, especially for their quality of life. We want to be more visible sharing our resources in the community. Issues that need to be addressed, money, money, money, we do not have a budget, so if there's any money left over anywhere, we would love to have a budget so that we can print more brochures, we can get banners, we can go places in the community just to help us fulfill our mission. recommendations to the city council we would ask that you continue to support senior engagement outreach initiatives throughout the community and support efforts to gather direct feedback from senior citizens to help develop future planning and decision making we have a t-shirt that says we love our seniors and we truly love our seniors so if you are a senior we ask that you take this brochure and you read it to see if there are some resources that can possibly help you. If you're not a senior citizen, then take care of the senior citizens in your area. We take this very serious. And again, we are a committee of 13 and we're doing the best that we can to, with the goals that we are setting out to do. We meet the second Tuesday of every month at the Bill Criss Center at 2.30. If you have any recommendations or any concerns, please feel free to come to our meetings and we can hear whatever needs you have. And again, when we finish with our survey, when we compile everything, we would love to invite members of the council to come out so you can hear firsthand the feedback that we received from the community. Thank you. And with that said, okay, because I'm going to say no questions. I'm already nervous. Not quite. Not quite. I'm supposed to sit right back down.

No, not quite.

So, great. First of all, thank you for the work you're doing.

And the seniors, you know, they provide a lot of wisdom to us. We recently had a senior literacy initiative brought to council to where it teaches seniors about technology, how to use their iPhones, how to use TikTok and and so that partnered with the Fayetteville County Youth Council and I believe they introduced it to the older adults. Wanted to make sure that you got it to your members and understood and those free teachable classes will take place at the Bill Christ and at the Senior Center East. Have you had an opportunity to familiarize yourself?

Yes, we have and we have a brochure like a monthly brochure to have all of those free offerings. And so they're displaced throughout the different centers. Gotcha. Okay.

All right. Council Member McMillan. I want to start off with thanks.

No hard questions here. But thanks for what you've done to change the dynamics in Western Fayetteville. I get a lot of compliments about the Bill Crisp Center. Now that's changed lives for seniors out in West Fayetteville.

Yes.

I've gotten feedback on the free classes and how we want to increase opportunities for those, things like chair yoga. We really look forward to and would just encourage an expansion to the greatest extent possible for free classes for seniors. And I'd also like to invite you out to West Fayetteville on the 18th to engage with some of our folks who'll be coming out to a community meeting. But I appreciate the work that you're doing.

Okay, you said the 18th?

Yeah, it'll be June 18th at the Lake Rim Recreation Center, 7 p.m.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, well, thank you.

Thank you so much. This wasn't too hard, but we'll be back again.

All right, thank you. All right, Council, we need a motion to receive a report. Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor, I move that we receive the report. All right, motion by Council Member Davis, seconded by Ferguson on the shore system. Council, I look to you for your votes to receive report.

All right, motion carries, and thank you again.

All right, Council, moving to the public hearings that are scheduled for this evening. All right, at this time, we are preparing to hold a public hearing where the City Council formally seeks your input. On a specific item, individuals designed to speak in the hearing must have signed up to speak with the city clerk by name before the beginning of tonight's meeting. We will begin with the staff presentation. Ms. Keisha will then move into the formal hearing. 15 minutes will be allowed for those in favor and for those opposing the particular item. Individual speakers are limited, however, to three minutes each, unless by previous arrangement there's a single spokesperson that has been designated, in which case that spokesperson may use the entire 15 minutes. When the city clerk calls your name, please come to the podium. Please clearly state your name and address for the record. You may then address the city. When the light changes from green to amber, that means you have 30 seconds remaining. Again, at the end of your allotted time, the light will turn red and you will be notified that you're out of time. So with that, I'll stop with you, Ms. Parker.

Good evening, Mayor and members of City Council. Good evening. The Covenant County Hospital Systems has filed a petition to close a portion of Fargo Drive to further develop their property. The portion has never been used for right-of-way or open to the public. As you're aware, North Carolina General Statutes dictate the process that must be followed. Staff has followed that process, and on April 27th, City Council set the public hearing for tonight. The property on each end of the portion of Fargo Drive has been posted and certified notices were sent to the adjacent property owners. We also published in the newspaper for four consecutive weeks notice of this public hearing. Fire, EMS, and police were contacted to identify if there were going to be any issues with the closure, and there were no issues reported. Utility companies did ask for a blanket utility easement to be reserved, which is being addressed as requested, and real estate has received no response from any of the public with any issues with the closure. Do you have any questions?

I don't see any yet, but with that, we'll open up the public hearing. Madam Clerk.

Mayor, we have one speaker for this item, Mr. Jimmy Kaiser.

There he is.

Mr. Kaiser, how are you?

I'm doing fine, Mr. Mayor. How are y'all? Good. And yourself? Good. Hanging in there as best we can. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to come before you tonight. Jimmy Kaiser, 115 Broadfoot Avenue here in Fable. Ms. Parker did a wonderful job of summarizing what was going on. The hospital's expanding. As we know, the medical center's teaching facility is getting ready to have a groundbreaking. This is all part of that overall process. They wanted to free up some of that space. That right away was limiting with setbacks and things like that. So we were trying to get some of that space back. And I'll be happy to answer any questions if any of y'all have any.

All right. Mr. Kaiser, thank you for that. Council Member McMillan.

That's an old.

That's old? Okay. All right. Council. All right. Great. Thank you. Y'all have a good evening. All right. Thank you. Madam Clerk.

We have no further speakers, Mayor.

All right, so council, seeing that, I will close the public hearing and look to you for a motion. Whose district is this? Council Member Green? All right.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'd like to make a motion that we adopt the resolution and order permanently closing a portion of Fargo Drive.

All right, there's a motion by Council Member Green, seconded by Hare. Discussion? All right. Let's see for your votes, Council.

Thank you, Mike.

All right. All right. Motion carries. Thank you, Ms. Keech. Thank you. All right. Item 9.02, Project Odessa. Mr. Van Gans, good evening. Good evening, Mayor.

Council, thank you for this opportunity to be with you today.

You know you're a popular guy. Go ahead and introduce yourself.

Robert Van Gians, Fayetteville Economic Development Corporation, 611 West Russell Street. And where is my PowerPoint here? Well, I can talk you through it if nothing else. So what you have before you tonight is the U.S. arm of a Ukrainian company that is considering establishing their first U.S. manufacturing. Oh, it's on a PDF. Yes.

Thank you.

Thank you. That is considering establishing their first U.S. manufacturing. facility and a relocation of their corporate headquarters, looking at an older vacant building here in Fayetteville. The size, scale, and type of project syncs perfectly with our overall economic development strategy, which is focused on technology and innovation. The company has two decades of manufacturing experience in the Ukraine originally. producing fixed wing aircraft and then transitioning into the UAV space after the Russian invasion. The product is used for data gathering, images, radio, linking and creating airborne Wi-Fi networks, and the like. And the aircraft is made from machined aluminum, fiberglass, and the positions are skilled but approachable and accessible to our existing students at FTCC and those coming out of the military. I think importantly worth noting, the product will not be exported, and the CEO of this division is a US citizen. So they have visited with FTCC. They wanna hire as many local people as they possibly can, and all positions in this 162 would be new hires. We are competing against companies in Nevada and Oklahoma, and this is the building that they are considering here. Uh, I think it would be a great opportunity to redevelop the spaces behind the old will be still called the black and Decker building currently zone heavy industrial. No changes required. And as mentioned before, we are requesting your support as we compete against 2 other States. State of North Carolina has made a very. Impressive and aggressive offer to help secure this project. We are asking you as our discretionary grants at the state level require local match to approve a $750 per job incentive, paid in installments after the jobs are created. If the company does not maintain the jobs, there would be a clawback provision, your total grant. would be $121,500. Simple request is being made of the county. We do do econometric modeling that talks about what the other stimulus will do to our economy. And you'll see here that it does actually create a significant number of new jobs up and down the supply chain. And with that, I'm happy to take any questions you may have.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Van Gaines. Council Member Jones. It's old?

No.

Oh.

All right. Dean. Thank you. Robert, you always bring us some good news. As I stated upstairs, and this is probably more for the public than for us on the diocese, I wanted to make sure that when we look at these created jobs of 162 jobs and what the salary ratio is that begins at an average of 70,000, approximately 162 jobs. I think it's fantastic. What I wanted to make sure or ask, if you could restate that for the public, in building that scope or the UDO or the contract, whatever it was gonna be called, can we put conditions there of hiring our local community, our city of Fayetteville folk. If you could explain that in some way, if you could, please.

Yeah, we can absolutely put in actions that the company has to take. They are very, what is it, trust but verify?

Yes, sir.

But part of this grant will be for training at the community college here at FTCC. which has an incredible program that works in the machined aluminum. They want to hire those folks. They want to hire the folks coming out of Fort Bragg. But we can get them to commit to holding job fairs, to working with those transitioning out of the military, to working with our current students, to work through internship programs. Ultimately, the final person has to have the skill sets needed. But I know that they'd be very happy to commit to that. And truth is, as many people as we can send to them from the local community, that's what they want to hire. They want to be part of this community here.

Well, I look forward to supporting this item tonight. Thank you, Mayor.

And if I could, sir, I apologize. I went very quickly. The lowest paid position is $50,000 a year. Sometimes we've got an average that sits here with a whole bunch on the bottom and a few on the top. But here, the lowest paid position, $50,000 a year with an average of $70,000.

All right. Thank you, Councilman Hare.

Councilmember Jones. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Really quick, thank you, Dean, for that. That was one of my questions, so that's knocked off. Could you share with the public very quickly the meaning of when you noted 159 direct and indirect or indirect and induced

I did jump through there very quickly, sir, and that's where I did catch that I forgot to add a fact in that. So when, as we all think about any jobs here in manufacturing, somebody has to bring in the product, somebody has to ship it, the employees go out to lunch, they do these things. And actually that 159 is a total stimulus of the economy across the board. 28 additional positions are projected to be here in Cumberland County based on our makeup. So that's 162 from the company and then another 28 in the county generated by the activity of the employees, the suppliers, the maintenance workers, and the like.

Absolutely. And then, uh, lastly, I know you mentioned you've already identified some, uh, potential, uh, talent work workforce pools that, that could pull that the company could pull from to actually hire. So thank you for that. Then my last aspect with that, uh, if you could explain, I know what the clawback provision is, but again, for the public, what that, what that clawback is, I'm glad to hear that. So I'm in support of this, uh, as well, but I wanted you to at least explain what that. clawback means for our program.

Absolutely. So the way we do all of our incentives is that the company must first perform, it must be documented, then they're eligible for the portion of the grant that they have qualified for. So in other words, after year one, if they've created 80 of the jobs, they'd be able to get 80 times 750. When year two comes, If they don't have all 80 plus the additional, they get no more. And that goes throughout. And then after the grant is complete, they've completed all that. They have to maintain them over a period of time after that. And if not, then we would go after, pursue them for recourse.

And the state will do the same as well. Thank you so much, Mr. Mayor. And again, I just wanted to put that out there because that's one of the initiatives. I know the council even before me and now it's been focused on is the development that, that talent pipeline. Thank you so much.

Thank you, sir. All right, Council Member McMillan. Yes, thank you again, Robo, for bringing this information to us. I have some comments, some concerns to address, and then also a couple of questions for you. Just start off with an understanding. My sister Cynthia said, all that glitters is not gold. Another way to say it is all money ain't good money. And I have concerns about hitching our star as a city, as a region, or as a county to the military industrial complex. I'm thinking about President Eisenhower's caution to all of us decades ago, many decades ago, about the excesses of a military industrial complex. What happens when war becomes business? What happens when there is an incentive to have war to make money? And then also, I'm a three-time combat veteran. I spent close to two years in Afghanistan. We can talk about drones and drone technology in a detached way, but on the battlefield, there's often civilian casualties. There's death on the other side of drone strikes. And I just want to acknowledge that. I know I'm not the only person that feels that way in Fayetteville. I told you when I first heard about this that I think this would be contentious to many people here. Also, I made the immediate connection to the war in Iran when I heard about this opportunity. with an understanding that drone technology from Ukraine has been offered by that country in order to provide weapons to Israel and to the United States in that war. And that is a war that many people do not agree with and feel is unjust and . All right. Thank you. Also, I have a problem with forever wars and what that does to the people we should be protecting and serving in this community, some of our soldiers based on Fort Bragg. Two questions. One, is it now a strategy of your office or of us as a city to go after, to pursue companies that are in the military industrial complex? That's the first question. Is that something that we're actively trying to do? Are we trying to woo them? Second question, With an understanding this war in Ukraine has gone on for years, I would assume that they're trying to find peace and end that war and end suffering. What happens to this factory, to this opportunity when hopefully there is peace in Ukraine, there's peace in Iran? What happens to those opportunities? What happens to Fayetteville if we hitch our start to this particular opportunity?

I'm happy to answer both those questions. The latter one first, if I may. With regards to this product here, it is a high-flying, long-life. It is used in a variety of applications from monitoring pipelines to radio frequencies to creating broadband links across open spaces. So it is not a one-purpose product. vehicle in that way, and so the purchaser of this would be the US government. And so I think we would think that drones and unmanned vehicle systems will continue to have a market here regardless of the current conflict there. On the other side of it, Innovation around defense and technologies and emerging technologies and how they're applied, be it robotics, be it medical devices, be it hologram systems, AR, VR. Those are part of our strategy for economic development and something that we want to incubate and grow that next generation of evolutionary technologies here. We want to see entrepreneurs here creating that, and that is part of our economic development strategy.

Could I ask one other question? Quickly. Yes, sir. I don't think a lot of people knew that this public hearing was going to happen. I wanted to ask if we could make a concerted effort to get some publicity around deals of this type that we know may be conscientious that people may want to come out and speak about. If that could be a commitment in the future. Thank you.

How, beyond meeting the statutory requirements, how we do that is up to council, and we're happy to do and comply with whatever directive we've got from our elected leadership.

All right, thank you. Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Let me just say, being a retired vet, that unmanned technology is now the way of the world. We don't fight battles the way we used to. Back in the day, we used to send a reconnaissance out on the hill. To look for the enemy in half your platoon or half your company would be blown up trying to do that. Today's age, we don't do that now. Now we send unmanned people to do that for us. We're not going to do that, yeah. Not only that, it saves lives. For us to even consider not doing this would put our government in danger. behind other governments who are doing it. If you want to be the strongest force in the world, we need technology. This is the part of the technology that we need. But my question, Robo, would be is the incentives, who came up with this incentive and how is this incentive different than Nevada's and Oklahoma's?

It is actually a blend of state incentives and then a proposed local and county incentive there. So we work with the Department of Commerce, the Secretary's office, to put together a package that we believe will be competitive. And that, again, has a heavy component of workforce training grants, things to help up fit the older building and put it back to productive use. And then there is a discretionary component as well.

So do you think this is sweet enough for us to get it over those two other cities?

They had a wonderful visit here. They believe in our community college. They believe in this community. I think we have a lot in common across our ties that I think we have a great opportunity on it.

Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

All right. So, Robert, thank you for that. You know, I'll say this. Unemployment amongst, first of all, what tier one community, what does that mean?

It means that we are one of the 20 most economically distressed communities in the state. And we are the largest, we're the only city above 100,000 with that designation.

Right. And then, in addition to that, one of the criteria that they use is unemployment rate?

Unemployment rate and average wages.

Right. And so, with that being said, you know, I've heard it talked about, you know, it was even referenced today about comparing... Our city, pure cities, this is a good comparison because it shows us where we need to get to in this community. It shows us our unemployment rate is higher. We talked about the Jim Crow South. The unemployment for black folks is almost 7.5% since this administration is in here. So people need jobs. We talk about economic mobility and advancement, but we need jobs. And so you don't have to necessarily agree with the concept, but what we know for sure is that people in this community have a higher unemployment rate than the peer cities, that we are a majority minority community, and that unemployment for black people in the last 12 to 18 months is higher than anybody's, right?

Absolutely.

All right. And so these are $70,000 average salary, and it looks to put 162 people to work directly. And what did you say, the indirect impact? An additional 28 jobs here in the community. Additional 28. With health care, I'm sure.

Absolutely. And I think importantly, these jobs are achievable for people that are willing to go through the training programs at FTCC and have that next level of opportunity in their life.

Right. All right. All right. Thank you, sir. All right. Councilman McMillan, you had a second round.

Yes, sir. I just want to respond to two things that have been said. First, going back to the Mayor Pro Tem's comments, we're both veterans. I want to offer a different perspective on how we can protect lives and save lives. Just celebrated Memorial Day, and many of us understand the loss of lives, a lot of our peers, colleagues, and friends. that died in wars that were unjust, unneeded, unnecessary, people who should be here today. There is now in this time more than ever a recognition that forever wars must end, that our precious capital of people, of the soldiers, of the friends that we lost, need to be protected, and that there's policies that are attached to that. So I just want to offer a counter to developing technologies. And maybe the framing should be how do we prevent sending people to die in needless wars in the first place? Not a local decision. Right? All right. If we invest heavily in this, it becomes more of a local issue, I think, because we're feeding into the resourcing of the death that is a result. Also, Mr. Mayor, the reasons that you give to embrace these sound a lot like the reasons that you're giving to embrace data centers. And I have to call that out.

All right. And if I may, let me finish, please. All right. Well, thank you. I see you.

Let me finish, please. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. It's not good enough to say that because we're a tier one city or county that we should embrace things that bring harm. It's not good enough to look at an opportunity without looking at the moral implications and without addressing that. And I think that there's a room full of people here today because they're tired of us ignoring the moral implications. and i think it's time for us to listen and i appreciate this information because this room full of people now understands there's other things we need to weigh out in terms of our investments our resources in fayetteville and i appreciate the time to say that yes sir and uh before i go to councilman here to respond to that um the very reason that you just gave is the reason

that I would also give or present back to you that you talk economic mobility and plans, but you don't embrace any economic policy. You're against technology.

Yeah, that's fine, that's fine.

So council member, you have people in the community that have to have jobs tomorrow. I know they're not as fortunate as yourself or some of us others to have a job, but there are people who need jobs A lot of times that the people who have an opinion about it, because we're tying something that is a global policy to the fact that they're looking to make a product that is not necessarily just used for the things that you mentioned. So the talking points are good, but it has to have some economic strategy because people need to pay bills and they can't pay bills with talking point. So council member here, I'll go to you. Uh, thank you, mayor. I, I, I moved to option. This is not a debate with the audience, so we've got business to handle. Now, any other? Absolutely. And right now, you're in the people's house, so we'll ask Chief Bryan, if you could, if there are any that will continue to disrupt because we're going to handle the people's business, not only the crowd that's sitting here, but 200,000 people. Paid for tonight's service tonight. Chief Bryant, if you could.

Mr. Mayor, just de-escalate if you can, sir.

All right.

De-escalate.

That's it.

All right. Council Member here. Thank you, Mayor. I move to support option one to approve the request of incentive grant to be paid on a prorated basis for the three installments.

All right. This is a motion by Council Member here. This is a second. Second by Mayor Pro Tem. Discussion? All right. Council, look to you for your vote.

Madam Clerk? All right.

Madam Chair, motion carries nine to one. Those voting in opposition, Council Member McMillan. Motion carries. Thank you, Mr. Van Heer.

Thank you very much. Thank you for the discussion. All right.

Councils, we move to item 10.0, evidentiary hearing. At this time, we've already had that, so we just need to continue. All right. So from a procedural standpoint, Madam Attorney, do we need to reread the rules?

No, Mayor Colvin. One of the council members is prepared with the motion.

All right. Councilman Mahandros.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move that we approve the special use permit with the proposed conditions. Condition one, the salvage junkyard shall be in compliance with all applicable standards, conditions, and specifications of the EDO and state and federal law at the time of development. Number two, the property owner shall install a new six foot tall screening berm along Russell Street inside the front fence line. Evergreen screen trees shall be planted along the top plateau of the berm that will grow a height of four to five feet. Condition number three, property owners shall maintain the existing fence surrounding the salvage yard and enhance the existing fence to a solid opaque with privacy screen. And then I need to move on to the six findings of fact. Finding number one, special use complies with all applicable standards, conditions, specifications in this ordinance, including in section 30-4C, use specific standards. The proposed salvage yard is a permitted use in HI zoning district with a special use permit. As we heard the testimony on May 26th, from the applicant and their team. Finding number two, the special use permit will be in harmony with the area in which it is located. The proposed salvage yard will be located in an area with other commercial and industrial uses. Finding number three, The special use will not materially endanger the public health or safety if located where proposed and developed according to the plan as submitted and approved, again, with the testimony from May 26th. The proposed salvage yard will fully comply with all relevant environmental standards and regulations to mitigate its impacts. The proposed salvage yard will not accept, process, handle, or handle any toxic chemicals or materials. Finding four. The special use is in general conformity with the city's adopted land use plan and policies, plans and policies. The location and character of the proposed use, if developed according to the plan submitted in the public hearing was presented on the 26th, will be in general conformity with the plan of development of Fayval and its ordinances, finding five, the special use will not substantially injure the value of the abutting land or special use is a public necessity Again, as we heard at the May 26th public hearing and testimony, the proposed salvage order is consistent with other uses in the area and will not cause a decrease in value. And finding number six, the special use complies with all other relevant city, state, and federal laws and regulations. The applicant will comply with all applicable local, state, and federal regulations.

All right, there's a motion by Council Member Hondros. Second. Council Member Jones? Or did we clear the board? Council Member, all right. So I have, Council Member McMillan, was that from the last time or this time? All right. So there's a motion on the floor. Is there a second before we go to question?

I have a second.

Second by Council Member Green. All right, you had a question?

Yes, sir. All right, discussion. To the city attorney or... or maybe our city manager. As I look at the pictorial diagram with all of the very tall trees and landmarks, I can't see the streets that they're running abut to, but those that I see within the preliminary drawings there, can I add to the findings, the facts, an amendment, let me say it and then you let me know what I can and cannot do, that we don't clear cut all of the trees and things that are there so that they can still be there to service a part of a buffer other than going and getting the small shrubberies that we do to align with the borders for buffering. Can we use some of also what's there?

Um, councilman here, the conditions that the applicant suggested are the conditions that are allowed in our ordinance. And so you're asking for additional conditions.

Well, well, because the, they are already there within the setback, they're already there, at least within the photos that I'm looking at. Uh, why allow all of those trees to be cut down? Yes. to go back with smaller size trees along that line for buffers. That's what I'm asking.

I see the client's attorney here. Did you have something to add, ma'am? Oh.

Yes, Robin Tatum, Smith Anderson here on behalf of the applicant. That is our plan to use as many of the existing trees as we can to satisfy the buffer. And we... It's not the time for us to do that definitively, but I think that we can say that we will save as many trees as we can to meet the landscaping and buffer requirements. It's preferable to us. We've driven by there, and it makes a whole lot more sense to leave them.

Yes, yes, yes. I mean, I wish that was something that I could actually add to your facts, but I'll accept your oral statement in our minutes to move forward. Okay, thank you. Thank you.

All right, Council Member Jones, you had something? Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Very quickly, again, Madam Attorney, can you just speak to, just to provide some clarity, can you speak to the nature of any testimony that had to be presented in opposition to that, since this is not a straight result, and just to give the public how Uh, particular that these, uh, the evidence has to be on the other side of that. Thank you. Mr mayor.

Yes, sir. Councilman Jones, any rebuttal testimony would have needed to be given during the hearing. And if there is none, then the applicant has basically proved its case and the SUP shall issue under the statute if all of the findings, all of the standards are met.

Right, additional caveat, so that testimony can't be hearsay? That's what I'm getting, can you speak to that part?

Cannot be hearsay, yes sir, must be competent, substantial material evidence. Cannot be layperson testimony, which means you must be qualified as an expert to testify as well.

All right. Council member Hadros.

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just to piggyback on my colleague to my rights question just now, could you just speak a little bit for all those present and listening a little bit of the difference between an evidentiary hearing such as this one, which is quasi judicial versus a public hearing, which is a legislative hearing. I think that may be what Councilman Jones was asking.

Yes, sir. Councilman Hondros, legislative hearings or rezoning hearings are decided basically however council would like as long as you don't violate the law in providing a reason for deciding one way or another. But the special use permits are evidentiary, which means they are like court proceedings and the appeals are to the superior court.

All right. Good. Councilman hundreds. All right. So there's a motion by councilman Mahindra. She was seconded by hair.

All right. We've had discussion council. I look to you for your votes.

All right. And of course that motion carries, uh, those voting in opposition, Ferguson, Thompson, Colvin Davis. All right. Motion carries six, four. All right. Uh, council moving to item 11.01, uh, request to set a public hearing for the proposed amendment to the UDO regarding telecommunication and data storage facilities. All right. Mr. Manager, who will tee this off?

Mr. May, if I may be recognized at this time.

Hold on a second, let me see. Doug, did you have any staff directive?

No, sir. We can answer any procedural questions that council has, but this came forward for council to provide direction about setting a public hearing.

Right, okay. And council, again, as we discussed upstairs before, I'll go to Council Member McMillan. 11.01, the request tonight is whether a public hearing is set. If there's agreement with that or not, then a date will be proposed or chosen, and that will be regarding a presentation which will include a review of the Unified Development Ordinance regarding the regulation of data centers, and would include staff and other presentations for, and to give the public an opportunity to see the presentation and to weigh in on either side of that issue. So we're not, we'll get into the merits if we can, but to whether the post-question night is to whether you would like to set a public hearing or not. And Council Member McMillan, I'll go to you.

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Council, I'd like to move that we table item 11.01, which is a request to set a public hearing for the proposed amendments to the UDO regarding telecommunications data and data storage facilities.

All right, there's a motion by Council Member McMillan to table 11.01. Is there a second?

Council Member Jones, is there a second? Can I, is it appropriate to ask a question? I have to go ahead and second it first. Yeah, I need to get a second. Second.

All right, second by Council Member Jones. All right. You had a question, sir?

Yes. With that tabling, when are you requesting that that come back?

Yeah, I would request that it come back as part of the moratorium process.

No, I mean a specific... specific dates, specific dates. I've already looked at the table until a specific date.

Let me ask the city attorney, is there a requirement that we have to fix this to a specific date? And I want to come back for more more on that too.

There's no requirement. I think he's just asking if you have a date in mind.

I want to, if I could go back in time, uh, many of us have been involved, involved in a process to bring back independent oversight. Uh, independent oversight was something that the city moved towards in 2012, uh, had staff heavily involved, even had a draft ordinance for CRP citizens review board. Uh, this council with the power that they had tabled that indefinitely. And now we are 2026 and that indefinite table on that specific mission for independent, that specific requirement for independent oversight is still tabled to this day. So I don't want to get pressed, I don't want y'all to feel like we were pressed to set a date on tabling this agenda because in other items it has not been affixed to a date and I would ask you to consider that in voting for this as well. My intent behind this is to bring back this UDO as part of a comprehensive strategic approach to addressing the harms that have been clearly identified by the public. And if I may, could I just ask if you could make some noise if you came here tonight to say no to the UDO. Another question, could you make some noise if you came specifically to press this council for moratorium?

Yeah, council, come on. Moratorium! Moratorium! Moratorium!

Moratorium!

Moratorium! Moratorium! Moratorium! All right, thank you, thank you. Thank you all for your enthusiasm. Council Member McMillan, I'll move from that. Did need to make a point of correction. Let me make sure we got the second straight. So it was a motion by Council Member McMillan. Is the second Jones? All right, so we're in the discussion phase. Just a point of clarity on the citizens oversight, the police oversight board. There have been at least five resolution requests by the city council to the legislator to do that. The state of North Carolina statutory laws do not allow

local governments to do that.

So I wanted to make sure that we were given accurate information. Can I come back? Yes, sir. So it wasn't quite true about the table since 2012 because there have been five, at least five resolutions, even though I wasn't on in 12, but I know that we've at least sent five to them. But I'm going to the second round. Let me make sure everybody's first round on the discussion phase. Council, any other discussion, areas for discussion on the McMillan-Jones motion to table? All right. Councilman McMillan, second round.

No, I just appreciate that clarification, Mr. Mayor. My point was that the tabling indefinitely was the strategy that was used. Okay. to delay that, and to this day, it has not been put back on. I also want to make the point, when you hear that a city cannot pass a CRB, technically that's true. It has to go through the state, the local delegation, which is state representatives. If we had the political will on this council to tell our state delegation to have a CRB, we would have one, like four other cities, at least, in North Carolina have.

So that's the only thing we're talking about.

I want to make that point. Also, I can come back to some discussion on the motion that's on the floor right now. If it's time for that right now. Yeah, it's the second round of time. So we're going to hear the vote. So it is not you. It is us. I want to say that. It's unmistakable what the public wants on this with all of our residents.

Thank you.

You are not alone. You're not alone. You have support on the council, though not consistent enough support. You do have support on the council for this moratorium. Because of what the council did a few weeks ago, this has to have a super majority to get pushed forward on a moratorium. What you see tonight that is happening is an effort to get something that is less than a half measure in place. and in this UDO amendment. What this could do is signal to developers that have been watching this community since late last year, that have been welcomed in by some of the comments by people on this board, it could signal to them that we're willing to start allowing them in. And I think that is dangerous for us if you are for halting progress, if you're for halting development on data centers. The only statutory path that we have in this community to do that and then also to develop a strategic plan is a moratorium. Understand that. This UDO amendment does not get us there. And I think this public, this board understands this.

If they vote for this UDO amendment tonight, it is not because they don't understand, it's because they do not care. So remember that. Thank you. All right. Council Member McMillan. Both have been called, but I do need to go to Council Member Greens for her first round.

Thank you, Mayor. I'm a little unsure about the date. Do you want a date set for the motion, or do you not want a date?

I don't. Do you want one? Is that what you want to speak towards?

No. Well, my concern is exactly what you spoke. that if we don't put a date certain on it, we see a tendency for it to sometimes, for lack of a better term, fall through cracks. So I tend to think that we should attach a date.

All right, we're doing good now. Let's not interrupt. Councilwoman.

I tend to think we should attach a date to it. That's just my personal opinion. So I'll leave that up to you.

Yeah, I would like to speak to that.

All right. Well, no more speaking. That's either a friendly amendment or not. We've had two rounds. Is that an amendment, a friendly amendment you're requesting? No.

It is a friendly amendment request if he'd like to set a date to it.

All right, so the makers of the motion have to accept that or not, but no more discussion on that yet.

No, and I'll tell you why. Okay. It's part of the motion request. So, okay, all right.

So the motion on the floor, as it stands, and the question's been called, we've had a couple rounds of discussion. The motion on the floor between McMillan and Jones is to table with, as mentioned. All right, council, look to you for your votes. All right. All right. Motion carries. All right. All right. We're doing good, y'all. We're almost through it. I understand the passion, but we've got to maintain the order. Okay. We've got to maintain the order tonight.

All right. All right. All right. All right. Enough, please.

All right. Now, Council, I'll go to you for Councilman Mahindra's 11.01.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move that we set, uh, August the 10th for the, uh, legislative public hearing on the proposed amendments to the UDO.

All right. There's a motion by councilman Honduras to their second.

Second.

All right. Second by mayor protein. All right.

Discussion council member.

Uh, I mean, uh, Ms. Clark, can you, Ms. Jennifer, can you clear the board so I can see who's, You said it is? Not on my end. All right, so Council Member Green.

I'd like to second that for the point of discussion.

Well, I think it's been seconded already. Oh, it didn't get seconded? Yes, ma'am.

Okay, great. I'd like to have a discussion then.

It's on you.

Council Member Honduras, would you be willing to add to your motion? When we voted on the 120-day pause, we, I won't say we, I'm going to speak for myself. I and several council members that I spoke with believed that we were going to receive additional information from other agencies and from other sources and from people that we all deemed as experts around data center sizes, what they look like, what their needs were, closed loop systems versus all these things that I never thought I would need to know in this lifetime. But here we are. So I would like to know if you would be willing to include that we receive that information between now and the date of the public hearing, and that include the opportunity for the public to have a session where they hear the same thing that we hear.

Absolutely.

All right, so is that an amendment to your motion? And just to make sure that we're consistent, in that 120 days originally, there was some language that talked about doing the same thing, pretty much, and making opportunities to make trips to see how the impacts were in person and to receive some of those things. Is that concurrent with that? I just want to make sure that the clerk. Correct.

So that August 10th dates roughly 60 some odd days from today. So we're about halfway in that period. So yes, that should give us the opportunity to receive the information and whatever trips.

Right. I just want to make sure that we receive what we assumed we were receiving with the 120 day pause, because I don't believe we've received that yet.

Agreed.

Thank you for the amendment.

All right. And to that point, it's probably more of a staff directive, but the things that have been mentioned the most that the public is most inquisitive about, Mr. Manager, I know that staff had a presentation that took place on the planning level that would come from a staff perspective, but Council, would it be consideration to get information on power usage, on water usage, kind of congruent to what you said, but some of those questions that we know that they have brought up or raised, In addition, on those public hearing dates, in addition to just a regular staff presentation, to have some subject matter experts that speak to those things, pros and cons of those things.

Yes, Mr. Mayor, if I might. I also believe that it includes anything that has come up during the public forums, just like we addressed the school resource officers and the traffic coordinating officers. We need to address this in the same way. for that. And I appreciate Council Member Honduras for making that amendment.

All right. So, Councilman Harry, you had a question? Yes, sir. And thank you to my colleague to my right. I had the same concerns that I asked upstairs. But let me also just get a little clarity. Within the motion, the original motion, and I support the amendment in the original motion upstairs, I was asking, did that mean that we would receive what had already been given to us by planning and things that we thought we were supposed to be receiving from planning when we sent it to them? Could that be done at the set public hearing when I asked upstairs? So apparently the amendment, has addressed that, and if it has, I can support the motion.

I don't know if Dr. Hewitt wants to add, but I envisioned the same presentation we got on the 13th. I would assume we were going to get that presentation from staff with the opportunity to ask questions on the 10th of August.

But with the additional things that were added.

With the additional things. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just want my colleagues to understand it is our job to do the research and add what we feel as though is pertinent to the situation here What we do is we seek information from other communities, i.e., as I was mentioning to the city manager, we went to City View, and they have a planning department up there, and if they have something in their UDO that we don't have in our UDO that pertains to the data centers, that is something that we can talk to our planning about, about adding it to it. So every time you add something, you could come up with another public hearing to make sure it suffices everybody on council. That's the point that I'm trying to make to you. So thank you for the friendly amendment, Council Member Honduras.

Right. All right. Thank you. Council Member McMillan.

Yeah. Some exposure time. We'll give you all some homework. If you could, go back and look at the work session. Watch it in full. Work session for March of this year. It's March 2nd, to be exact. This same group of people, what Councilmember Green just asked for, this same group of people was asked if they would back direction to the staff to do exactly what she's asking to do in the next 60 days. to bring back information about a moratorium especially, but about this process, because there was already concern. By that time, we'd already had 2,000 signatures on a petition started by Rashad through this community. So let me tell y'all, this is political theater, what you're watching.

Particularly, you're right.

This is political theater.

Amen.

If you think that your concerns are gonna be met in the next 60 days, equally as they would be in a moratorium that's usually designed to last somewhere between six months and three years, then you're not looking at this in any type of realistic way. And if this board was serious about directing staff to bring back information on a moratorium, about protecting you from the harms, they would have done it back in March when they had the opportunity. Also wanna speak to something that it's really important to understand that North Carolina has laws against down zoning. So the things that we put in place 60 days from now in August could very well be permanent for this community. That means if you fast forward 10 years from now and we're dealing with the impacts of a data center and we're not able to down zone because of North Carolina laws, it will come back to this board and this night. And I want y'all to remember that.

All right, thank you. All right, we're doing good. I understand the passion. I understand the passion. So, all right, listen, we've already crossed the line, so we're almost there. So, Councilmember McMillan, you're right about a few things, particularly about the political theater.

That... Let's de-escalate if we can.

Well, you escalate, and then you ask them to de-escalate. Let's de-escalate if we can. How many people cheer for this? How many people cheer for that? So you're escalating. But at the end of it... At the end of it...

Let's deescalate if we can. All right. Excuse me.

Excuse me. Let me have your attention, please. Let me have. No, listen.

Listen. Deescalate if we can. Attention, please, Councilman McMillan. We are trying to deescalate. That's enough.

We are trying to deescalate. We have been patient. We are letting you go ahead and express yourself. But please be respectful. That's all we're asking for. Let whoever's on there, let them speak. That's all we're asking for. We've been very patient. Yes. Okay, so let's, we understand, but let us do our job, let them do their job, but you guys have to be respectful. That's where we're at.

All right, it, all right, you know, Council, Council McMillan, so you've had your chance to speak. All right, we've had two rounds. Council, I'll look to you for your vote.

Okay, good. I was calling for the question.

Yeah, posture is part of the escalation.

Yeah. All right. This is the schedule of the public hearing with the terms. All right.

All right.

Who hasn't voted?

All right. Who's the vote? Who's the vote? Who carries those votes in opposition? Jones and McMillan. All right. Council, to you for motion to adjourn. No, what do you have?

Mayor, before we move to adjourn, I want to make sure that I got this in place. On our administrative reports, item 12.01 and item 12.02, just wanted to make sure that those will be going to our work session. Mr.

Manager, you're tracking that?

All right. Thank you.

Yes, sir. As council does not have a work session in July, we will bring it as soon as we can. But thank you. Yes, sir.

All right. Motion to adjourn? All right.