City Council Work Session - workshop

Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. Good afternoon, sir. On this April 6, my wife's lovely birthday.

Happy birthday, friend.

Let us bring our work session to order. Can we have a invocation by council member Malik Davis? K. Let

us all bow our heads. Lord, we thank you for allowing us to make it here safely. We thank you that those that are on their way will make it here safely. We thank you that you give us wisdom to make decisions on behalf of the residents of this city, and we thank you that we'll do it all in unity in Jesus name. Amen. Amen.

Let us stand for the for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with

liberty and justice for

all. Well,

thank you everyone for joining us today. Can we get a motion to approve the agenda?

Move to approve, sir.

Mayor or mayor pro tem, we have the city manager's report first.

Yes. Mister manager?

Thank you, mayor pro tem, and good evening afternoon, members of council. Very short announcement today. Asked Chris Cawley if he could come forward and introduce a new staff member we have with us. Not

doing work session.

There we go. Good afternoon, mayor pro tem council. So about nine months ago or so, the city manager encouraged me to apply for a competitive grant through the International City County Managers Association. So we put in a grant application for a program they were working on for economic mobility and opportunity. We got awarded one of 16 grants in the country.

And so what that grant does is it allowed us to hire somebody with, appropriate background and experience to come be part of our community and work with us for a couple of years and to figure out, how we can address some of the things that we found in in a couple of studies that have happened over the years y'all might have heard of. One was a study conducted at Harvard called the Opportunity Atlas, and that talked about the likelihood that a child born in poverty would get out of poverty during their lifetime. And Fayetteville did not score very well in large metropolitan areas on that study. Similar work was replicated with Winston Salem State University a few years later, found similar findings. And so over the years, we've done a lot of work.

City council has invested a lot of resources and time and energy in addressing these issues. We don't know if we're any better off than we were in 2016. And so the hope with this grant is to bring in Terry, who

I'll introduce in just a second, and to really assess where we are as

a community, what long term viability of some of the efforts that we put in place are, and really come up with concrete actions that we can measure and hold ourselves accountable to to making sure that we can improve economic opportunity in our community. So with that, I'll ask Terry Slipka to come up here. Terry has, over two decades of experience working in economic development across the world. He's worked with local governments and states and even countries on setting up economic systems. We were very fortunate enough to to land him for the next two and a half years or so. And this is not the last time you'll see him, but it's our our first chance to kind of introduce him. So, Terry?

Okay.

Thank you. I appreciate the introduction from Chris, and thank you council members and attendees for the opportunity to introduce myself. With family who settled about fifteen years ago, about forty five minutes from here, I've really appreciated the opportunity to come and do what I can to help the council and the people of Fayetteville realize their economic opportunities. As Chris said, I've worked around the world, worked with over a 100 municipalities in a number of countries to do those very things. And I think the opportunity to come back and bring that experience and work with the people of Fayetteville to find what's needed here and really develop evidence based, ideas that help inform policy choice and help unlock the potential of the people here is a great opportunity for me, and it's an honor to come back here and work with you, with the council, with everyone here, the organizations, the private sector.

And I look forward to doing that and us to achieving great results for the city and for the people and for the region. So thank you very much.

Thank you, sir, welcome aboard. Just yes. Let's give it up for him.

No. No. No.

Thank you. Thank you. We we we expect great things, and we know you're gonna deliver great things. Just earlier today, I was on with councilman Mahendros. We were talking about the future of Fayetteville. And we need economic impact for the city of Fairfield so we can see so we can anticipate what we wanna see five, ten, fifteen years from now when most office most of us are off the status. So we welcome you. We look forward to you bringing great things to the city of Fairfield.

Great things.

Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it. That was all, sir.

Thank you, sir. So let us move on to get approval of the agenda. It has been motioned and properly second. Use your assurance systems, please. That is unanimous. Items of business, 6.01, Dogwood Festival.

Well, hello, mayor pro tem Thompson, council members, doctor Hewitt, and the rest of the Fayetteville family. I am super excited to be here. And for those of you that don't know me, my name is Kaylyn Suarez. I'm the current executive director of the Dogwood Festival, the forty fourth year and last year. So with that said, I'm here to talk about the Dogwood Festival and how it impacts the city of Fayetteville and the potential partnerships moving forward.

And for those that don't know, we just have two staff members, myself and my chief operating officer. She came on with me last July, and we have 13 board members. Miss Tucky's behind me, and we have another one in the audience as well. But with the Dogwood Festival, it takes an immense amount of volunteers. I would love to say it takes a big paid staff, but we can do it with just two. But it does take a lot of support behind just those two. So with that, I want you to know the faces that are paid to work there. That's who their the community is investing in. And also that if you'd like to volunteer, please see me. You have my email.

Most of you have my number. Historically, the dog the Dogwood Festival once upon a time was a ten day event. Somewhere along the way, it became a a three day event, and numbers still are pretty high. We have a hundred and fifty to two hundred fifty pre COVID in attendance, and that's over a two and a half day, three day period. That's the most people that come downtown all year.

That is amazing to say that we have the privilege of inviting community members both near and far, and right here at home to downtown. Otherwise, typically, they they come downtown, just trickling in. During COVID, there was a dip, and that's expected with when you have something of that size. But last year, we brought the numbers back up to 81,000 in attendance, down to our beautiful downtown Fayetteville. Now economic impact, I'm glad that I heard that earlier.

We bring a big one. Out of all the events that happen in Downtown Fayetteville, Dogwood has historically brought in a large amount, which means you've got beds and heads. That means you have people visiting restaurants. That means you have people visiting the downtown businesses attending other events that coincide with our event. So anywhere from 10 to $20 yeah, $20. But anywhere from 10 to 20,000,000 in economic impact annually from just the Dogwood Festival alone. I think that's pretty fantastic.

Yes.

And with that said, that means that's something you wanna keep around. But we are a tradition. We're not just a festival. We're not just some event that happens downtown that's a free concert to attend to. This is forty four years of something that's taken place downtown because this is where home is. But we're not we're not blind to the side that other events will be coming to this area, but I am proud to say none do compete with what we provide. For those of you that don't know, a house bill was passed back in 2023 that had pushed to make the Fayetteville Dogwood Festival the state dogwood festival. Somewhere along the way, the bill died. But it was passed. It was unanimous, a 114 to zero. That's pretty darn cool.

Yes.

But with all that said, I've already reached out to representative Smith. He's working to get it back on the docket for 2027 so that way we can hopefully push it for next year. And that'd be fantastic because next year is the forty fifth. But with the house bill, for those of you that may not know, and most people in this room do, but the house bill, once it sits still or stagnant for a period of time, it dies. And that's why it has to be reintroduced.

So between myself and my chief operating officer and the representative, mister Smith, we will be going through with this. And this is something that will not only bring more attention to the Dogwood Festival, but Fayetteville as a whole. Not that we don't already have eyes on us enough, but this one's in a good way. Now some people have heard talks of the festival potentially moving to other locations because it has become expensive to be downtown or that we just don't have the budget. But let's be honest, downtown needs the Dogwood Festival.

It is a an event that brings everybody downtown. Local nonprofits come to this event to share the tools and that and services they provide. So it's a way for the community to see things that they normally wouldn't have because people don't always look on social media or they don't always read, you know, the news or listen to the radio. Local vendors have become in brick and brick and mortar businesses. We have one that will be celebrating their one year anniversary this year at the Dogwood Festival.

If you've seen the Schooley Express, the big mobile art fest, she sell started at the Dogwood Festival last year. Miss Stacy Anderson is fantastic human being, and I'm super excited that she chose us to do her grand opening and celebrate her one year as well. But there's other businesses that have been impacted by the Dogwood Festival that have allowed them to grow. And realistically, we wanna see more of that. Let's go here.

Some of you might wonder how much we bring in or where our money goes or where it comes from. This year alone, miss Tucky has brought in $84,657.90 in vendor fees. That includes art and craft, food trucks. So she's doing a fantastic job. But that 84,000 only goes so far. And then our sponsors, which I just locked in another one. So the number is now 1,500 and and 7 or sorry. 100 and I can't you could see the numbers. Yes. It's been a long day.

But with that, our annual operation costs, not including the festival, just my salary, which is 60,000, chief operations offers officer's salary, which is 36,000. Insurance annually is 18,000. Rent utilities, office supplies, and software, 17,000. Taxes for employment, and additional taxes, 16,000. So that comes to a total of 147,000.

That's where we get our number from. That doesn't include the little things that pop up for permits or anything of that nature. But add an additional 146,000 that's how much the festival costs to run for that three and a half that three day event. Now with that said, I know the the it's been said why doesn't Dogwood Festival cut their budget? I'm proud to share that last year we cut it down to a 146,000 from the 200 to 300,000 it has typically cost to run that festival. And that's a very big amount when you think about it, but it's not. Because production costs anywhere from 40 to 50,000 for a three day period. Then you look at the the headliners that it takes. Yin Yang Twins cut us a deal. They brought it down to 21,000.

That's pretty awesome. Thank I appreciate them for doing that. But things add up real fast. So even getting to that 146,000 that's already cut a bunch into our budget. So that means less headliners.

That means less performances. That means less anchored activities because somebody's got to pay for it. But with that said, which I say that a lot I know, so bear with me, that's the rundown of what our budget is. Now historically, the city has provided some kind of financial donation, and I would be remiss to say that they, you know and overlooked the fact of the in kind donation. Whether it's waste management, whether it's groundskeeping, whether it's the park and rec team putting up with me, they don't get paid enough for that, or the PD or first responders of of all kinds.

All of that is a that would cost us anywhere from if you go buy Park and Rec's new measurement, 39 to $60,000. That's going by their scale. But historically, I've heard it be shared that it's more. But in in the transparency of things, 15,000 only goes so far. That doesn't even pay for a headline act.

That doesn't even pay for a second follow-up act to that. And that is something that we want to impress upon the community as a whole, that things cost money because it's free to community doesn't mean it's free to put on. It's also been said that Dogwood needs to plan more events. Well, if you missed out on some of the ones we've already had this year, whether it's the silent garden disco at Villa Marabella, which is the old Fox Hollow, or Uncle Carl's barbecue showdown, which was confused with the Mac and Cheese Fest because we're on the same street, or Crazy About Dogwood Kazoos, took place in partnership with Fascinate U. We have other events coming on, which this weekend, Dodgeball and Donuts down at DeVille Athletics off Merkerson.

Obviously, the Fayetteville Dogwood Festival, which is our crown jewel. We're working on other events following that. So it's not a shortage of events, and it's not a shortage of planning. It's the shortage of funds. Future plans for Dogwood, just to run through them real quick. We are looking to work with donors and sponsors. If you spend over $25,000, you get a vote in entertainment. So the whatever the final vote is for entertainment will be voted on by more than just the festival. It's voted on by the community and the donors. We are looking at providing local vendors in the Cumberland County and Fayetteville area discounts to be able to participate in the festival because economically, they're all being hurt right now because the funds just businesses that what it is for them.

And it's because they're a frivolous thing, not a necessity. So we wanna make sure that they know we see that and that we're finding ways to help them along with that. Local musicians will also take priority over programming and before headline acts instead of us seeking out in Raleigh or Atlanta or somewhere else. We'll also be aiming to add a Thursday night as a paid concert because we will not be charging the Dogwood Festival anything during the spring event because we market it as a free event for the community. It will stay a free event as to the community.

That is our whole mission statement and that is what we are built on if you look at it. So it will be in collaboration with Cork and Fork that night. We do continue to plan on working with other nonprofits and other organizers to continue to help each other as far as planning goes. We are removing at Fayetteville after fives. That will not be a thing.

It costs 7 to 12,000 bare minimum for one act and production, and we aren't seeing the return on it. So we'll be replacing it with a downtown street dance instead. But all in all, one of the things I do wanna share is that I do go to an event called Show Fest each year. It's where all the North Carolina festivals get together, and they talk about their partnerships. How much the city or how much the county supports them, not just an in kind donation but helping with production or with the the entertainment.

How much the tourism offices help them? And I'm just like, well, Fayetteville needs a little bit more collaboration when it comes to something that impacts the, you know, the local economy as much as it does. And Dogwood doesn't see a cent of that back. We don't have anything except our sponsorships or the in kind donations. And unfortunately, in kind donations don't pay for production. They don't pay for staff. They don't pay the light bill. So those are things that we are looking at and we appreciate, but we also have to make sure the dollars make sense for us. In order to see the fiftieth year, which is in six years, we have to start planning about those things. So we do have a six year plan.

We just need the city to work with us as far as financially goes so that way we can ensure the longevity because the sponsor dollars are there. The community support is there. But the bills are going higher. Things are costing more. Music artists are realizing, hey.

We can go back to charging what we used to. And I don't know if anybody's traveled recently, but the airlines aren't great. So that fees are going those fees are going up as well. But with that I did present three proposals to doctor Hewitt which was provided out and those are what we're looking at and some of them are a financial and in kind sponsorship. One is an in kind sponsorship and one is a legacy sponsorship so they range anywhere from 30 to a 100,000 I don't know if anybody's got to look at those or if there's any questions on those But that's where we're at right now.

And I've been pretty transparent about what's in the Dogwoods bank account. This year's festival again, $146,000 is what it's gonna cost. And Dogwood has 21,000 in the account right now. And that's with some sponsorship checks still coming in. That's with one of the headliners paid and those are things that people just don't see the behind the scenes and I want to make sure we keep that in front of people because while we are a free event to attend there's changes that are impacting us.

There are, you know, different parts of what we do that basically we're not able to keep up with just because Dogwood basically is running operation and the community is getting all that economic impact and we're not seeing any of it. So that's where we're at. I'll ramble on forever because y'all are the adults I get to talk to today besides my four and a five year old.

Thank you, ma'am. Council member here and then council member Green.

Well, of course, thank you. Thank you for what you and all of your great staff, do with the, Dawood Festival downtown. Been coming for years. Always been a great, great success. And I guess we do know around this diocese that we're probably gonna have to help a little bit more.

Yes.

Kathleen, you

mentioned that three or four day that that day those that weekend brings in you said around about did you say twenty to Ten

to twenty

10 to $20,000,000.

Yes.

Tell me how do you gauge to get that number?

Easy. We we hire an outside source to get that information. That's not some number that we make up.

Because I was trying to see it in your

Yeah.

I can pull up those studies and send them to you

guys. I'd to know how you how you come up with that number because that's a great number.

It is a good number. Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, mayor.

Alright. Councilman McGreen and McNair, and I had a question.

Thank you, mister mayor. Good to see you, Katelyn. Good to We appreciate the job you're doing and we recognize what you came into and you're kinda trying to dig yourself up from the from the hole that was kinda there and not through any fault of yours or anybody else's, just the way it happened. What is your perfect timeline for receiving back if the city were to do something? When when would you need that? Because we're in we're getting ready to start budget conversation. So I know that doctor Hewitt, you know, has different things planned and we as council always have our pet projects as well. So what does that look like?

Respectfully, it would be by May. But that's a very fast turnaround time, and even I know that's unrealistic. But that something sooner rather than later is what we're looking at, and I'm not gonna put a timeline on it just because out of respect for not knowing all the projects you guys have going on, that is something that would be deemed by the the city, not myself. Okay.

Doctor. Hewitt, do you have any I don't think we put this in the budget for this year or we planned for it because they really were back into the formulating plan again stage.

Thank you, ma'am, and thank you as well, Caitlin. You're correct. It is not something that we had a budget line item for, But if council expresses interest in providing some funding, then we can as long as Jeff if you can restrain Jeff Yates over there, we can find some money to assist before May. But it would be part of understanding that the council has not had an opportunity to really vet all three of the proposals. And there's also another proposal, as you're aware, that we're looking at for the nine one o Fest or other things as well.

But they do amazing work as you all know, but we can't find some funds if that is council's wish to assist before May. I don't note that 100, but I think any amount would help based on what I'm hearing.

Alright. Thank you. Councilmember McNair. Davidson and McNair. Thank you, mister mayor.

So, Caitlin, you said you attended a

conference. Correct?

Yes. So the conference you mentioned that they had you guys talked in the other cities and other counties do Mhmm. Collaboration. What did that look like?

Yeah. So that's a great question. And I if anybody wants to go with me next year, it's a fantastic conference to go to and a lot of the city officials do attend as well as county. But if any of you have been to Whirlygig Festival, they provide quite a bit of assistance. Autumn Fest gets a lot of assistance. The the Black Bear Festival also gets a lot of assistance. And what that looks like is whether it's production, the in kind donations that we currently already get, but also they do have options where they help pay for the entertainment as well.

Thank you. Thank you, miss.

Alright. Councilmember McNair.

Thank you, mayor. Caitlin, how are you? Caitlin, right?

Yes, ma'am.

How are you?

Good. And you?

I

have maybe one or two questions here. Mhmm. What contingency plans are in place should the festival not meet attendance or financial expectations this year?

So I'm not worried about the attendance expectations because as far as like for example, Fall Festival was our highest attended festival for fall. However, it was the lowest spending dollars. So attendance is never the problem. But if it doesn't meet financially, it just affects how the forty fifth does or does not move forward.

Okay. Do you have anything in place for the community's feedback post festival? Yes, ma'am. We do surveys as well

as anybody that reaches out. I usually have open lunches at my office as well. Hear a lot of feedback there. I do a lot of community outreach as far as getting their feedback.

So how how has it been so far?

So far, everybody's excited for the Yin Yang Twins. I know that. I've had more positive feedback than negative. But as of right now, the community has showed up in a way that I did not anticipate. And it's been a it's been positive. And it's honestly the reason why I've stayed in this position because I did consider leaving last spring.

Okay. Great. Yep.

So go Fayetteville. Alright.

Thank you, councilman McNair. Mayor Pro Tem.

Yes. Thank you, mister mayor. Miss Suarez, thank you for the presentation. It was great. As far as in kind donations, the security measures that we tried to implement with the Dogwood Festival, did that increase any of your budget obligations because of that?

I am so glad you asked. It did. So fall festival when we went to host it, it was gonna cost us $39,000 just for security and police alone. That has never cost us that much for any festival that we've had, whether it's the fall festival or any micro event we've done. So $39,000 does keep Dogwood from doing a fall festival and festival park or any other events that are not city sponsored. And what was the cost before that? Before for for security and PD, we paid right under 7,000.

7. So that's $32,000.

Yes, sir.

My next question is, and this question was brought up earlier today, have we ever thought about using transit to transport people from one of their hubs to the downtown so there's not a cluster of parking or where people trying to come and leave?

That is something I have mentioned last year in regards to the transporting from the Expo Center to here and especially because there was another event occurring the same day.

So have you contacted missus Neal to see how you can coordinate that transportation?

Not not with her, no. But I will.

Thank you. Thank you, miss Smith.

Thank you. Alright. How you doing,

miss Roy?

You know, I'm functioning, so that's You're a

doing good. So just a couple of quick points. So one is, you know, do appreciate you kinda stepping in and leveling that off. Dogwood has an incredible brand over the last several years that people have come to know and affiliate that with the city. And of course, we've had this predates you, of course, and and some members on council. But some of the concerns that have come up before and I raised a couple of them is a diversity of the entertainment, right? And so in times past that had been a conversation that it was geared to a certain genre because that's where the sponsorships were. Is there a plan in place to make sure the entertainment is diverse if the city dollars comes in which represents everybody?

Well, I'm just gonna throw it out there. This year, it's hip hop and rap. It's not country and rock. And also, the second day is not country and rock. It's throwback to nineties. So I feel like diversity is not the issue. When it comes to sponsors, I haven't had any issue getting sponsors knowing that those are our music choices. So we'll continue to rotate them as as long as I'm present.

Yeah. And that and that's good. And and every year it didn't have to be that. That was Right. Certainly not the the the implication. The other thing is, as the city considers your request, you you say you're bringing in roughly a 100,000 people and and or so. And, you know, I'm certainly a advocate and have been a champion for more outdoor events because that's how people gauge, you know, the vibrancy of the community.

Mhmm.

Have you spoken to TDA or the county at all?

You know,

they benefit hugely from from visitors, from the hotels, from the the food that people buy. The city gets none of that revenue. So Correct. What what were you about to say about that?

So the TDA grant, and there's a big misconception that once you get this $25,000 grant that you can spend it where you need to, and that's false. You can only spend it on marketing. We don't have an issue with marketing. We have an issue with paying other entities and bills.

So I understand that the the traditional grant program is what you described, but has there been a specific request to them to assist? My understanding is they're sitting over a little more than 3,000,000 in in the bank from these tax revenues. So they benefit from us from you bringing in people into the community.

Yes. So what I've been told is that this is what it's for and this is what it would be used to.

So you're not able to apply for anything outside of the grant is what you're saying?

There are other micro grants but they're for from what I have done the research, it's for grassroot grants or it's for other entities that are not already set up as established unless we apply for the marketing grant, which is the 25,000.

Alright. Let me frame it another way and I'm not I promise I'm gonna No. Because we got alright. So the same way you sent us a proposal to say, this is what I need. Have you ever done that to them? I understand that they have preset programs, but have you ever submitted a specific proposal for something different?

Not yet, but that is something that we're working on that will be taking place in May.

And then, of course, the follow-up to that is how about the county? The county captures alcohol sales. The council capture a lot of things that the city doesn't get any revenue off of.

So I'll be a 100% honest. The city is the first on the list for us because it happens But not the

last. Right?

Correct. Okay.

So yes. Not the last. But city was the first on the list because we are using city facilities to do it and it's in Downtown Fayetteville. So that's why we address the city first and May will be addressing the county in TDA.

Gotcha. Alright. Thank you. Council member Ferguson and Hondros.

Thank you mister mayor. Thank you miss Caitlin Caitlin for your diligence. My question is is the what is the I want a clarification on the ask because I'm seeing three options and you were saying there's another option coming. So are you asking for one of the three options? All of the options?

Ideally all three options. But I gave options because I know the budget fluctuates and it's not the same. So if the $100,000 is like, oh, no. She has she is crazy. Then there's other two options and it outlines in the proposals what each option gets and what each option helps provide. Gotcha. So they're

all So they ask us for all the options?

It But Ideally, it's all of them, but I will I will take a dollar at

this And there is another option coming?

No. That is from a different festival and entity altogether Gotcha. That I was consulted on.

Alright. My second question is, I'm looking at the assistance that the city has given you over the past Mhmm. Eight, nine years, and it's about 15,000. So my question is, you said that doesn't go far, and I understand that. Was that a request for that amount previously or

To anything that happened from 2017 to 2022, those were predate me. I've just took this job. I've been in it for the last year and three months.

Okay.

So I could speak to

The '23 was?

Not me.

'20 you were So I'm sorry.

December 2024. I've only been here for a year and three months.

So what what what was the amount in '24?

We didn't get anything. So the last amount was 2022.

Okay.

Gotcha. Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Alright. Councilman Hondros.

Thank you, mister mayor. Thank you, miss Suarez. Great presentation. We talked about TDA and the county, some other partners. What about the Arts Council? Have I know, the city and the county fund, FCDC, we got here to represent them as a partner. The county and the city fund, the Arts Council, I know they have some grants for cultural events. Have you spoken to them?

Yes. So we received a rapid response grant last fall for 5,000 and I did apply for a larger grant that should be announced in May if who the recipients are.

Awesome. Yeah. Was just thinking, you know, the city, I think in the last few years, we've put on through Cool Spring Downtown District with those partners, the New Year's Eve event as well as Juneteenth. You know, the mayor kind of asked a lot of or pointed out a lot of the points, you know, the ABC tax, the sales tax, the on food, or even the sales tax. Now that the distribution methodology is switched, the county gets the lion's share of that.

The hotel motel heads and beds tax, I mean, we get none of that. So as much as we like to help, I I just think it's a great event. No doubt about it. The the question for me is, you know, how much can the city fund? Because the Fayetteville next, formerly the Millennial Commission, I think they're coming.

They're the ones with the nine one o festival, I think. So, you know, and more on the radio show this morning, you know, the government can't solve all of our problems. So it's a collaboration and a partnership with the citizens, the elected public servants, well as staff. So, and and I'm by no means an expert in any of this stuff, but I think in my preliminary research, a lot of cities do fund kind of as you were saying that the in kind with first responder and and whether it's solid waste or parks and rec, whoever does kind of the cleanup. So be interested to hear the discussion where the concession consensus lands. Thank you.

Alright. Councilman Jones. Oh, it it

I do have something that I wanna say before anybody else ask questions. The redirection has been to the county and I just want you guys to know I have spoken to the county and that means that they will most likely ask for us to move to a county location. So just for that to be something that's aware.

Pardon?

Yeah. That that

is something inside Cumberland County. But

keep in mind though that when when that comes up that is a conversation that is to be had as well as I have been approached by neighboring communities that said well what do you get and I have shared what we have received but that's because they're trying to start brand new events. The mention of the nine one zero Fest I have been consulted on. It's great that we're getting another festival downtown. But not to toot our horn or anything, we're the one that's providing the numbers.

Good deal. Councilman Jones has.

Alright. Thank you. Thank you so much for the presentation. Just had a quick question. You may or may not know this. Do you happen to know roughly what the percentage of the vendors are local?

So with it, most of ours, but I can find out the exact number for you and send it to you.

Okay. That's fine. Alright. Thank you.

Alright. It looks like we've made the round on the questions. So Okay. Is there any official action needed or just a presentation?

No. I'll follow-up with counsel, and we will work to talk to our folks, friends at Dogwood.

Alright. What did I get in line with? Yesterday. Yesterday. That's what I okay. I just wanna make sure that we gave an ample enough time. Thank you.

Thank you, miss Royce. Alright. You too. Alright. Council moving to six one zero two. Proposed annual action plan. Mister Baker, how are you?

That's the man right there.

Good, mayor. And I hope you and fellow council members are. Mayor pro tem, it's good to see y'all today. I've been asked to talk with you. Sabrina.

Miss Wells. I've been asked to talk to you this evening or this afternoon rather about our annual action plan. For your consideration, this plan will align funding priorities with HUD requirements and our local strategic goals. Overview of the grants that we administer here in ECD on the city's behalf, we administer CDBG, HOME, and ESG. These are entitlements that we get directly because of our size.

And so each of them has some requirements that have to be met, but this does allow us local control. So how much money are we talking about? As you look here, you can see we get 1.7, 800,000 and 150,000 for home, which is the 800,000 CDBG, which is 1.7. And then HOPWA will go away at 150,000 Another new program that we've received the last couple of years have been ESG funding as well. These funding measures are currently at this level of this year because we have not received our HUD allocation letters at this point in time.

So you'll see that while they trend upward normally, they are flat with last year's because we are budgeting at the same amount. So let's talk about those anticipated resources. The first line you'll see is the entitlement, the amount that we get directly for each of these appropriations. The second line item you'll see is the program income. You'll notice that program income, we do make out loans to small private developers as well as business loans.

You'll see there on program income CDBG, which is the economic development loans, we anticipate $40,000 but we do anticipate some significant program income under HOME of $710 which will greatly increase the program. So that's a total of $750,000 That brings the total budget with new resources up to $3,700,000 There is a match component to two of the programs. Home requires 220,000 in match, and then ESG also requires an $11,000 match. Let's take a closer look. There are some guidelines on how this money can be expended with CDBG and HOME.

You'll see there are caps on administration. CDBG is 20% and HOME, respectively, is 10. Under CDBG, we also have something called per public services. You can think of that as a social service cap. We like to fund gaps in social services. So part of this, we held to find out what those gaps are. We can max out 262,000 thereabout in helping fill some of those gaps. We cannot go above that number. The cap is 15%. Under home, we have another 15% requirement.

That is not a cap. However, that is a funding limit that will go to community housing development organizations. And so we have currently in there, the minimum is 132. You will see later where we make a recommendation to fund our, what we call CHOTO's Community Housing Development Organization at 150. But that is not a cap. That is a minimum threshold. And then we keep 7.5 for administration of ESG. So this is a long process. We start in November, as you can see here, engaging the stakeholders to find out what those gaps are. And then we produce a notice of funding availability that stays out from November to January over that three month period because of the holidays.

It gives people plenty of time to respond. Then we come back and we prepare a draft based off on that, and it goes out to the community for February and March to receive feedback. We have also consulted with the COC and we hosted some citizen participation meetings. We have presented this to our Fayetteville redevelopment, our advisory board and we're now here at the work session. If you approve and agree to a hearing at the end of the month, then we can wrap this up and submit it to HUD in a timely fashion.

Citizen participation, you'll see here we held those four meetings in Massey Hill, Smith, Westover, and E. E. Miller. And we had approximately 50 people in attendance. I do want to talk a minute about the strategy in this funding. You'll see here we took last year's and we did some plus and minus so you could see our strategy. We have decreased some areas so that we could increase economic development activities. Those programs hadn't been revamped in a couple of decades. And so to be more impactful, you heard about the economic mobility to be more impactful with those programs and resources. Are looking at significant increase, and we have offset that in the budget, as you can see.

At the end of the day, it does represent a balanced budget. So I want to talk to you a little bit about the recommendations for nonprofit funding. We did have a NOFO that was open, a notice of funding availability. We received 32 applications. 24 of those were for that that part of public services or also social services in the CDBG that we talked about earlier.

Out of those, four, five were incomplete and could not be scored. I did want to share with council that we did open as a courtesy, those applications back up. Unfortunately, they did not take the opportunity to complete those applications, so we did not consider them after that. Out of the nineteen, seven did not meet the minimum score threshold to be eligible for funding and were not aligned with the CDB national objective, which is eradication of phlegm and blight or service in low to moderate income people. Of the 12 remaining applications, we had almost 3 quarters of $1,000,000 right at 750.

Again, the cap was at 260,000, leaving us almost a half $1,000,000 deficit for local funds to nonprofits. I do wanted to share with you real quickly what the funding level recommendations for the nonprofits that we received, a workforce readiness program that is in partnership with FTCC to push folks through trades there. Combined unified service was fully funded. Better Health, Myover Reef, Connections of Cumberland County. They requested 95.

We are going to we have offered them 30 and a recommendation of 30. We have some ESG money that we would like them to begin taking because their program is ESG eligible. And so we're trying to shift them to that part of money, and we can talk more about that when we get to ESG. Legal aid of North Carolina is also similarly with a program that pays for rent. Roots mentoring is 16, fully funded there.

FTC Foundation, which pays for bus passes, is fully funded at an even 10,000. Action pathways, they sought some assistance for the food bank after the reduction of federal funds. As you could see, we didn't have really the whole full $200,000, but we thought it was important, and so we plugged them in at $31,230 which was all the funding we had remaining. Communities and schools, we funded at 20. Fayetteville Urban Ministry, they fully funded them at, we recommended at 15.

And then Cumberland Health is another one of those agencies. They asked for 40. We gave them 20 of CDBG, and they took 20 of ESG funds, again, to switch them over to a different pot of funding. But I do wanna highlight that they still had we still had a deficit of a half $1,000,000 to fully fund their their their request. Home recommendations. Again, this increases affordable housing within our community. You see there, we started off with a 1.7 in affordable housing development. That is a 40% increase. That is driven by that program income of $710,000, that repayment. So we're able to put some more there.

We doubled the homeownership assistance. You may know that as Homebuyer Heroes. That program has been tremendously successful, and so we'd like to continue to fund that. And we have done so at a recommendation of a 100%. The CHOTO set aside, again, that was more of that 132, that 15%, that minimum that you had.

You'll see here that we're recommending the CHOTO be continued to receive funding at 150,000, the same as last year. And then, of course, we keep $88,000 to do program delivery. Again, the result of 42% is directly tied to that $710,000 in program income. Next, we'll move to our low income housing tax credits. We have four applications that are being considered at state level.

Three of them are for new construction and one is a rehab. We anticipate two. We anticipate the rehab to be fully funded and they wanted a new constructions. So you'll see here that they have all requested $400,000 and we're looking forward to seeing which two shakes out on that. Here's the locations of all those properties. Rosehill Garden is the rehab you'll see there, and then the other three are on the western part. The last program I'd like to talk with you about this afternoon is our ESG. We have some recommendations that we bring forward here. ESG provides street outreach, homeless prevention, rapid rehousing, and emergency shelter. Those are the allowable things.

Some of those programs that are providing that rent payment or preventing the eviction from occurring, we're trying to switch those programs from CDBG to here to streamline that program and use resources appropriately. So you'll see that, again, we're funding this at the same level that we did last year, so there's no change. However, I do want to focus in, we had $38,000 last year unallocated. And so now we have a new but a budget of $177,000. In this next, I'd really like to talk about that unallocated a little bit more, and so that's the reason why we're pushing these folks so that we can get that money expended.

You'll see Fayetteville River Ministry requested 50. We're fully recommending their 50. Myvarice at 40. Cumberland Health Net, again, you'll see I called attention. They had asked for 40. We only gave them 20 in CDBG, but we made that other 20 other up here in ESG and made them whole. They do street outreach and coordinated entry. Many of you may be aware of them. But however, we only had $90,000 requested, and we're distributing one ten. This program is a little challenging because it has a one for one match, a dollar for dollar match.

So even though we are making award to February Ministry, a recommendation of $50,000, they have to have $50,000 that they can put with that to expand. And so that has been a little difficult and challenging for our community with our nonprofits having some cash strapped. But we are working with them. We have capacity building within our program. We have a staff member.

And so we have been meeting with them, looking at ways that we can increase their support in in kind donation and not necessarily a monetary donation because all the match does not have to be a dollar for dollar. It can be in kind. It just has to be valued at the same. So we're working at that, but right now, we do have a problem with $67,000 unallocated. And so we will spend the next couple of months.

We have also held that in anticipation. Right now, we are funding the county to fund the Salvation Army, and so we will spend that time in the next couple of months working with the Salvation Army, making sure that they're prepared to take the 67, almost $68,000 in allocation, in the near future. So that's, the recommendations, the timeline is if you find this acceptable, then, we will look forward to having a hearing on April 27, which would allow us to get that to HUD by the May 15 deadline so that we can wrap these programs up and start them July 1. At this time, mayor, I'm happy to answer any questions you and council may have.

Do councilor Maher has one. I have a couple.

Thank you, mayor. Thank you, mister Baker, for the great work that your area does all the time. But I see a couple of holes in it that I want to ask you about. If you go back over to CBDG allocation page. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Just just we just spotted something, I'm pretty sure. So the the neighborhood revitalization, you said there is a change in there of 27 I mean, a minus negative take away deduction of 27.31 over in the new programs for neighborhood revitalization. Explain that and whenever you do explain, because that's such a major thing in our community, You just said at the ending piece of ESG that you was trying to find a place for $67,848, which is a great place for it.

And if you can answer that question along with, and I can repeat them if necessary. I want to know how do the citizens find out about in the ESG rent support? How do they find out about that that is something that is available? And well, I do I I just got something. I I let I'll stay right there for a minute, please.

Certainly. Mhmm. So here, councilman, you're absolutely right. There is a decrease in 27%. So to increase 27.31.

Yes, sir.

To increase our economic development activities, those those loans for small businesses, and and to really expand to think beyond just small business support. That's where we'd really like to go, and we're gonna come and talk to you some more about really doing some economic development. But before we can do that and make those changes, we would like to talk with you and put this this money in position. So neighborhood revitalization consists of a few things. They consist of, you know, demo, and we'd still be doing those demos.

They consist of sign program, which you have failed funded, and we'll continue to do those signed programs. But the minor, the small reduction of a $130,000 does go to enhance our economic programs. Now back over here to the ESG with this $68,000.

Before you before you slip over there to the ESG, I'm still waiting on a little bit unless I just didn't understand what you were saying. Are you trying to see how we can put fill in that gap or put back in that gap for the 27.31%? Alright. Did you say that? Or I didn't hear you say that.

No, sir.

So you just

In order to fund economic development in the trajectory in which we're trying to go, we would have to offset some of the remaining programs that we administer under CDBG to make up that cost because we're increasing economic development to 50 by 50 some percent. So, unfortunately, we had to take from other pots of money to make that up. But I couldn't take the ESG money to close the gap here.

Yeah. And I don't know how we look as far as other partners for these things outside of, you know, the the funding that we get that we we put there. In May, if I'm not mistaken, the business committee, which is chaired by my colleague to the left here, councilmember Hondros. We are going to be talking about the institute.gov and hopefully we can see if that can end up being a partner somewhere for us. But I hope that we can fill that gap.

We don't need to go down with that because it is still out there. It's still growing. Continue,

sir.

And so I think you had also asked me about ESG. And so with ESG, sir, I'm only allowed to do these activities here, street outreach, homeless prevention, rapid rehousing, and emergency. So I would not necessarily be able to take this 60 some thousand dollars to fill that hole in neighborhood revitalization. But if a person would like to find out how they can access those, they can certainly call us here at 433-1590, or they can visit our website, and we're happy to connect them with those agencies that have made an award, such as Connections of Cumberland County Fairmore Urban Ministry.

Yes, sir. And and I think you all do a great job. But what outside of what you just stated, how is it that the citizens are aware if you go back to ESG yeah. Keep going. Oh, okay. Yeah. Right here. Yeah. Go back. Yeah. The other one. The one just before that. Yeah. Right there. I was just wondering how do you make them aware? I know they can just call. But

So the entry point for this is always the continuum of care coordinated entry. So we always folks that are needing their rent or eviction prevention, they're always to call our coordinated entry. They can either call or visit us at the Day Resource Center, but they have to go through coordinated entry. And coordinated entry will actually make the referral.

And before I let it go, mayor, thank you, I I would love to see something that we keep talking about, telling our story, making people know, making people aware. And I've seen I've I've noticed the the difference. I mean, after every meeting, the mayor has given a a hot point tonight while we were just waiting for the meeting to start. I saw it come in popping up all over on on our station. If if it was not our city clerk, it was someone else talking about some things that's going on in the city.

This type of support where where citizens really, really need that affordable housing support, heating, renovations thing, I mean, that's that's just as important as those things, and we might need to start doing little little snippets on the podcast and things along that line for residents to know in any other way. But thank you, mayor. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank

you. Thank How are you?

I'm good, mayor.

I hope you're So I did have a couple three things I wanna talk So to you looking at the recap of the strategic plan this year, it's not on your sheet.

Yes,

sir. Alright. Goal two, f y '27 council priority, commit to expanding housing and neighborhood revitalization, emphasizing affordable housing needs. How does that priority align with your recommendation of deducting 27.31% that he was talking about?

So very good question. So affordable housing, we actually increased almost 12 in neighborhood revitalization. That really is the the sewer connection. That really is those programs that, like the sign program, that are driven by demand. And we have not seen the demand.

We have forecasted on the the demand level that we currently have. And so we have some dollars there that we feel that are languishing, that are underutilized, and we thought that they would be better appropriated given the strategy that we're gonna come to you in the next couple of months and talk about revamping and really moving away from just small business assistance to how do we create economic development in our community. We introduced Terry tonight, and we wanna keep on that theme in the next year or two and build as we build on the ICMA, EMO, economic mobility opportunity that we talked with our

I got you. I got you. I'm glad you cracked that door open for me. Underutilized programs. Right? Now we took our homeownership program that was underutilized, and we tweaked it and added something, loosened it up a little bit, and now it hopping pretty good. Which I say? Alright. Same thing on the sewer connection. Right?

And we have one applicant. And West Fayetteville, PwC is saying, you know, we're laying pipe in the ground, but we don't have the connections at the 50% rate or more to make it viable for us to ex speed to speed that up. And it's going on 20, and our cost is popping up. So we brought that back for consideration. So as we look for tweaking, I don't think that means take it from vitalization and put it in another pot because then you're not meeting the council's goal.

So what about these programs can be changed? I understand it's the CDBG. So do we have the rules that they're the most viable? Because what we're asking is what about, the folks who work every day who may be what is the the max on this? 60% AMI?

80%.

80% AMI. So that's $40,000. So you may have a cafeteria worker, school teacher, bus driver, custodian, maintenance person, and so on, and all of the the gamuts just like we did on the on the housing, what are the other encumbrances? Because when I think revitalization, I'm talking existing neighborhoods. If someone needs new vinyl siding, new windows, they need they need to do something to the current, but it may it may not be financially feasible.

One of the barriers that I'm looking at, as you're saying that you got $67,000 remaining in the ESG because the nonprofits haven't came because you've got a dollar for dollar match. So if they had the money, they don't need our money. Or they can take their money and leverage it. What about the companies who are strapped or the nonprofits that don't have the money? Or what about the person who really applies for this because they make 80% AMI, but they don't have whatever our requirement is? What are what are we requiring? Are we requiring them to go buy it and then be reimbursed? Or what tell me the let's talk about the rules of it.

So the so under CDBG well, we have lots of neighborhood engagement programs, neighborhood revitalization programs. Under CDBG specifically, we fund demolitions in support of the general funds work that development services does already. Right? So we do some voluntary ones. We also help cover some that the general fund can't afford for demolitions. We have funded that at the same amount we did the year before. Why we have a savings here is because we have elected to do a specific capital project in the parks CIP in a low income area. And so that capital project, Parks and Rec gave us an estimate of how much that project would cost, and you'll see that reflected in your CIP.

So so you've already decided what's gonna happen?

We've we've set the funding aside, and then you guys will review and approve a CIP.

So we don't have any input about what emphasis we wanna see for revitalization is?

So we have we have two programs under this pot of money. We've got demolitions and then physical improvements.

Right. Let's stick with that for a minute. Now I'm gonna prolong this, but it's important because you you're asking us to to bless this. It's a five year plan. Alright? And so One year. So so two things. So it's one year on a five year basis recurring, but the point is is that if we wanna see more improvement on older neighborhoods, then how are no options being like, when do you get from council what we want? I understand you got a version of it that says we wanna drop a park over here to us that's neighborhood revitalization Right. Versus the council saying you know, let's say the demo money.

Right? That you're using the money for demo purposes. And that's how we've been doing it since since I can remember. But is that the most effective when you're trying to revitalize neighborhoods or restore confidence or you know? Because now you've got people buying homes that rented them. Right? On your home on homebuyer's part. And then you got folks in there now because you've got a new homeowner across there, and they own their home. And now everybody on the street has a sense of pride, but I don't have money to paint and upgrade my house. So is there an opportunity to do that and maybe we find the demo money elsewhere? Like, you're saying we're changing it, but we're keeping all of the legacy rules in place.

Well so the opportunity to help that homeowner fix up their house is the $335,000 we have under affordable housing with CDBG. That helps with that pays for our homeowner repair program.

Through Urban Ministry?

Yes, sir. Yep.

K. What's the income requirements there?

With all of CDBG, it is 80% AMI or below.

K.

So the example I gave, only option for me is to go through urban ministries, which I've sent a lot of people to you and you, so many times a week and the urban ministries, but, you know, the list is long. We're out of funding. We have to apply next year. Like, I've got one lady that's a senior. She works couple of jobs, and she's she's been on a waiting list for a couple of years. They helped with with a part of it, didn't didn't now she had to come back. So there's no way to provide another vehicle for that if the council said we wanna prioritize. I just think we gotta have a

Yeah.

Have a conversation on the front end about the emphasis and what the council's vision for it is because we picked it out during their strategic plan to say this is what we wanna do. But I I don't like that it's already decided or baked in by the time you bring it back to us.

Well and I and I wanna talk about that for a minute. This is not baked in. This this is the work session. Right? This is when you guys give us feedback that we go back and fix before you adopt it. Right? So that this is exactly how this is is working as intended. Right now, our biggest challenge, with funding more of our homeowner repair program is that our partners are capped. If I were to ask Fayetteville Art Ministry to do more, I need to give them a sufficient amount more money to justify them hiring a whole another person because they are processing as quick as they can go through. Right? If I were to bring someone like Habitat on board to do these programs, I'd need to justify them standing up a program. Right?

So what amount are you saying? 100,000? 150,000? For for an existing program like

Double this. Yeah.

Another three.

Another three. But you got a 130 that have been cut out of here. So really not another three. A 100 another 160, 70?

Well, yeah. So you could you could look at cutting economic development back down to 300,000 there. Right? And moving that $1.50 up into affordable housing. And then you could look at cutting demos or cutting the park CIP project and putting that in affordable housing as well. Alright.

So we're just saying options. Last thing I'll say, let's go over to your home ownership assistance program. Right? We all that's our flagship program. I brought that to council for them to consider that council was very aggressive in making sure we create homeowners. Ran in met with a group of realtors and mortgage brokers the other day, and I sent this question to you Yes, sir. Regarding front end qualifications. Okay? And so we we tried to make this easier so people would use it. But I I had a hard time understanding when they said that they had people who were declined because they didn't have enough debt. Not credit, but debt. And so I asked for some clarification on that. So this is what I

got back

from Michelle Smith wrote it. Yes, the program includes a debt required ratio standard. Front end must be between 2035%, and the back end cannot exceed 45%. So really, you got a 20 to 15% window. So so how am I being punished for paying off my bills responsibly and making sure I'm not

That's what

I'm in debt, and and that makes me disqualified? So I need to go take out more debt and take out a mortgage? Explain that.

Yeah. So there there, functionally, it would not make sense for someone to be disqualified for having a lower debt coverage ratio than 20%. What that means is they can afford a larger first mortgage, which means they need less money from the city to cover the gap. So we would ask them to go back and recalculate their loan officer to go back and recalculate their first mortgage so that they would have at least 20% of their household income encumbered to pay for a house. And then that what that lets us do is that lets us decrease the amount of the gap assistance they need and serve more people.

If we don't have that 20% in place, then they can come to us and say, hey. Your program says $30,000. Give us $30,000 even though they could only need five.

But but but the the income limits meet that. Right? And so so I guess my my question is you want them to understand what you're saying that you don't want people who buy a $200,000 house and and they've got $10,000. But how is them being in debt helping that? You know what I mean? Because to me that income takes care of what you're concerned with. The people who don't really need the money get That's from if I'm understanding what you're saying.

No. So the 20%, the lower end on the front end ratio is to ensure that the mortgage that they're getting to pay for a house is of an appropriate size and that they're not cutting their mortgage down just to get free money from the city. So they wouldn't

be denied for that. They would just be asked to increase

their mortgage slightly.

They can't buy a less expensive house. What do you mean when you say cutting their mortgage down? So So even if I my income is is at the 80% AMI and I wanna buy a house, they say I qualify for 200,000, I wanna buy a $150,000 house. You don't you don't encourage that?

Yeah. If they if they could pay for a $150,000 house without having more than 20% of their debt in on the house, then they don't qualify for the program. They don't need down payment from

the city. I I would like to see that come back. We want the program to go and and and impact the most amount of people. Like, I understand what you're saying that, but that's that to me is a is a is a trick that well, not a trick, but it's just a a criteria rule, a rule that now disqualifies people who ordinarily would qualify.

Well,

it it trying to take the the dollars and stretch it farther versus the council making a decision to reload it. Like, the the whole goal is to create more homeowners Well is what I attended when I when I brought it for consideration.

So, you know, council could potentially, I'd need to check with the attorney's office to do something different with local funding. But with the home funds, we have an obligation to prevent oversubsidy. And so if the owner if the if the prospective buyer can afford a mortgage, reasonably afford it, and only 20% of their income is going towards their their debts, their mortgage on that house, then we cannot subsidize their their purchase because it would be an oversubsidy. Right? And so that's that's why that floor is in place. And the challenging part is our floor is 20% while the state's is 28. So we already go from 20% to 35% while the state program goes from 28 to 32.

Right. But we we that's why we're using general dollars. I mean, the state and the federal have different objectives. Ours is to grow more homeownership. Like, the state didn't have a 60% renter to 40% owner ratio. Fayetteville does.

Understood. So we would not be able to use this money for for that if we were to over if we were to decide to oversubsidize the buyers, we wouldn't be able to use the the HUD money.

But it just says you go up to that amount. It doesn't say you have to get 30,000. So I want 30,000. There's there's a language that you can say that it goes up to not to exceed a certain percentage of the of the mortgage, but encouraging people to take out more debt to me is.

Well, yes, it's encouraging them to borrow the amount of money that is appropriate for their income and then to for us to fill the gap. That that's the way that it's kinda designed there. And I I can definitely understand that this does not make sense when you look at it like this, But what what I've been working on is is a tool that I can hopefully bring to you guys where you just plug in numbers and you see it shift, and you see that, oh, if this person can afford a $115,000 first mortgage, they they only need $15,000 from the city or $20,000 from the city. They don't need the full 30 just because that's our cap on the program. Right?

And and so but if they can afford more of a mortgage, then then they should take more of a mortgage so that the city is not covering expenses that they they could have covered. And we're not stretching anybody because we're capping it at 3535% on the front end anyway. Right? So so the people that get denied with us are people whose their mortgage costs are are so much more that they're paying more than 35% of their income, and and we would call that person house poor or or unstably housed.

I I get the paying more than Right. That makes sense because you you you want a lawyer rate of default. So what I'm what I'm having a real hard time is understanding encouraging people to go in debt in order to qualify and get more money. Like, because normally, any other normal scenario is you pay off stuff so that you can prepare to buy a house. But I'll I'll move on from that. Alright. Councilmember Green and then McMillan.

Thank you, mister mayor. I'm not sure who can answer this and it's fine whichever up y'all want to tag team. That's fine with me. In listening to mister Baker go over these numbers and various things that were kind of a shortfall and where what he's had to do to make some of this work, I've thought about the, 12,000,000 in bond money, the housing trust fund for homeownership. Where does that play in? We've been three years and we haven't utilized any of that. Is there some plan for that? What does that look like? Can it address some of these issues that we're having?

So right now of that 12,000,000, we have allocated 1.8 for a rental development project on the Catalyst site and we've allocated 2 and a half million for rental and homeownership to go pair with our choice neighborhood application for the Merkerson Road area. Rough math, that leaves us 8 and a half million or or so left over that we have unprogrammed right now. So that money can be used principally for three things. Right? It can be used for additional down payment, which I'm gonna need very shortly because these programs are running out of money.

It could be used for homeowner repairs for lower income people, and it could be used for rental, gap financing.

As the mayor was speaking also, I know that NC Housing Finance used to have a program, I believe it's probably gone away, which a lot of those have, for down payment assistance. And as the mayor was speaking about increase in debt, I know that I ran into a situation where I had a client that had a great employment history, had great credit score, but did not have the cash because he focused on paying his debt. So he did not have the cash to put as a down payment. So is that the trend with some of the things you see, or is that not likely? But I know that did does that still exist in NC Housing Finance?

Yeah. It it comes and goes as funding becomes available, but they've got the community lending c community pool long Carl, help me out. CPLP. Yeah. CPLP. There we go. And then they also have a $50,000 second mortgage pro private a program that they do. And so with that, you're talking about $65,000 worth of subsidy for a qualified buyer paired with our program. You know, that that's really the power that gets unlocked when folks like Kingdom CDC get involved with working with a buyer. On on the debt piece, right, so, what we're looking at when we're looking at those ratios is is not just, you know, have you do you got a $700 lease on a car?

And when you know, it it is. That goes into your back end ratio. Right? If you're spending more than 45% of your income on housing, buying a house right now is probably not the best step for you. Right? But to your example of somebody who focuses on paying down their debt, especially high interest debt, and now they don't have enough cash on hand for the down payment, that's what these programs are for. Right? And and I'm happy to come back and talk about some of the the structural pieces that are in this. What's challenging is that we did start out with a goal of making our program as generous as possible, and we're running out of money. And so we do need to look at program design, what the state does, what other cities do, and how that works in the future.

Well, I personally and I don't I can't speak for my colleagues, but I personally would like to see that information brought to us, particularly as we look at where that remaining 8,500,000.0 is gonna be utilized and where it best benefits our strategic plan because our strategic goals are set. They've been the same for the last two years pretty much, and I would really like to see some of those ticked off our list a little bit more. And I would also like to see the money utilized now rather than, you know, we're ten years in and we have bond money still not spent. So we're at three years now, and I'd really like to see that plan brought up brought back.

Yes, ma'am. And I I think, you know, five years ago, we did an affordable housing study. We've accomplished every one of those goals on that study. It was a ten year plan we did in five. I think with $8,000,000 in play, I I think it would it would be nice to have a new strategic study for what we should put money towards and what the greatest needs in our community are.

Okay. Thank you. Yes, sir.

Councilmember McMillan.

Yes. Good afternoon, and thank you. Thank you again for your work. Thank you for for bringing this information to the council today. Just wanted to give an affirmation of alignment with what you're doing, with the work that's being brought forward.

I think right now we are at a time when this council will be meeting just even in a couple of days to talk more broadly about our strategy and about how we emphasize certain things within that strategy. What I see is in alignment with what was laid out last month. What I see is in alignment with the overview and the broad strategy, the broad brush strokes that the council has already laid out and wanted to to give appreciation for that. Also, I understand the shift and allocation of resources towards economic development. We've had some some discussions already about traditionally, we just had this discussion last month, traditionally how we have focused on housing, how we focused on physical structures and not economic mobility and the people that actually live in those structures.

And I think we're living in a time when it has to be both and, where we need to start thinking more broadly about economic mobility. And that's one of the reasons I applaud your grapple tutor. So I just want to give an affirmation of alignment. I think we are at a time when we also need to have some trust in your execution. We we don't need to be in a in a foxhole zero in your weapon.

And as I as I heard the process of strategic planning, that's that's what was emphasized, I would ask that we show some discretion at this point in our interactions with the staff in terms of criticisms on getting down in the weeds on programs and support the staff as as much as we can without being in the foxholes, they're on the weapon. That's I appreciate the time to say that.

Alright. Thank you, Councilman McMillan. I know you. Councilman Jones.

Thank you. Very quickly. Thank you, sir, for bringing up the point that you all reopened the grant process. And I'm bringing that up because of things you often hear I often hear in the public. So thank you for doing that because that's giving individuals another opportunity to come in.

If if we don't take advantage of that many organizations, that's that's nothing we can do about that aspect. The other part of that, could you speak very quickly to, and I can get with you later, but just for the public to hear, some of the ways that you hold organizations accountable that are receiving these monies, KPIs, key performance indicators. I know there are some strict guidelines depending on where that funding base comes from, which thank you again for bringing that clarity for the anticipated resources as well.

So whenever we contract with a nonprofit, if it's in their first year, they're highly we do a risk assessment. So they go through a risk assessment. If it's during the first year, they're high risk. And so we work with them, hold their hand really through that whole process, visit them in the first quarter, things of that nature. If there's someone like Fayetteville Urban Ministry, as we've discussed tonight, that we've had a long standing partnership, you know, they're gonna score lower on that risk matrix.

They don't require the handholding. So it really depends on what kind of activity you're doing. Have you ever worked with the city before on these kind of activities? If it lies outside of your mission, if you're getting scope outside of your your your organization,

goal

and objective, then all those things factor in, and we put them in a risk, matrix system and then, monitor by the contract. What was your deliverables? What was your goals? What did your contract say you would do? What did your application say? And is that needle moving? And are you expended in a timely fashion?

Okay. Thank you. And that's that's what I wanted to the the public to hear as well as some things come up though that definitely answered the question because the last thing I think people want is any organization to get content with receiving funding by slacking off. It sounds like you already have those parameters in place and I want the general public to hear that as well. Thank you. Thank you for the presentation.

Thank

you. Thank you, mister mayor.

Councilman Davis. Thank you,

mister mayor. Question on the revitalization, funds. I think you guys mentioned that you're not getting a lot of applications for some of the physical, like, I e, the signs for neighborhoods. Is that correct?

So our neighborhood sign program and our water sewer assessment are both general funded activities. But, yes, we they ebb and flow year to year. We've got years where we've had over a dozen sign requests. We've had years where we've had three.

Alright. So from what I'm understanding, I know I can only speak for district two. We have a lot of our seniors who are community watch leaders. Right? And they have a hard time on the application process. And so I also learned that as as council members, we can't request that if it's done be put in the neighborhood. It has to come straight from the community. So I'm not sure if this can be a, mister manager or your staff or whomever. There can be some type of, extension that council can on behalf of the residents who are not able to do the application process or go through it, because they're senior. They're little elderly.

So I think that's a little that's been a little bit of issue in my district with some of those that want signs. They just don't have the capacity to go through the whole back and forth situation. So I just wanted to throw that out there.

So that's that's a policy change. Y'all can fix that. On Strickland Bridge Road, does it sign, Emerald is it Emerald Garden? To the left, it's been knocked down. It's been knocked down for a while. I mean, there there's probably a a process that the council can review, to help with stuff like that Right. Rather than one single person doing it. Let me say something real quick, mayor Proton before you get there. Two things. One, guys, is, this is this is our job.

So I know some of us hadn't been through any strategic plans to be able to know what the next steps look like. So we're supposed to go through this. Two is, economic mobility to me is more than a talking point. Homeownership is the fastest way, to increase your economic standard. And so taking a renter to a buyer or taking someone whose home is valued at one thing, doing some improvements, and now they have equity in it, that is mobility. But I'd love to hear a little bit more about, about the plans. And, certainly, we got an item or two from now coming up about economic development and tax base growth and jobs. So I'm I'm looking forward to how we do it. But it it's it's good work. We're supposed to do this. So, I mean, y'all y'all been through this and dealt with us before. It's not your first day with that, but we we appreciate your patience on that. Mayor Proton.

Oh, thank you, mister mayor. And it's a coincidence that you brought that up because I just went and talked to that homeowner on Saturday. And sometimes we have to be careful how council gets involved when trying to ask for these signs because most of those signs are community signs. Most of them don't want city signs. They wanna reconstruct their own community sign the way it was before. If you go to Emerald Gardens, there's three. Emerald Gardens one, two, and three. Hickory Grove, they have a sign, but they don't want a city sign. They wanna construct their own sign. So before we arbitrarily say we're gonna get them a city sign, it's best to talk to those homeowners, especially if the sign is on private property and not in the easement.

You gotta get their permission to even remove the sign or put in a new sign. So there's a lot of things that we have to make sure that we research before we just arbitrarily say we're gonna get this done for a resident or a constituent. So thank you for bringing that up, mister mayor. That that was a good point. And, unfortunately, that homeowner had passed away. So now it's another obstacle about trying to get a city set.

Right. And I and I don't know. You know, everything is not gonna fit everybody. Okay. But what what he's got going on in District 2 may be different than some of the other ones. But but what we're saying is we're expanding options. Mhmm. Right? And the more options we have, the more people you have participating in this stuff is the hope. So anything else for for these these fine gentlemen? Alright. Thank you. Thank you. Alright.

Thanks, guys.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Now, counsel, what what I want you to consider, the questions, clearing up our questions on, I do wanna have a little bit more conversation about the home homebuyers hero program since that was mentioned in here. What what's your deadline to have this adopted by us? I know you run

on HUD deadlines. So to put the money in place, ideally, we'd like to come back to the last meeting in April for a public hearing. We could we could push that, a meeting or two if we needed to. For program design and construction, we can come back at any time.

So, counsel, since this was a a part that we've gotta adapt so they can get it to HUD, and I know it was it was a, extensive amount of questions, do you all mind, them coming back with some of the questions, answers to the questions that we had at one of our upcoming meetings that are coming up? Yes. Yes. Yeah. I mean, if if they can get it guys, you know the the schedules of what we have, but if you can get it on a way that doesn't impede your your goal of getting it by the end of the month.

Yes. We we have to tweak this a little bit. We just got an email while we were sitting in here about our HUD allocations. So we'll take some feedback from council tonight. We'll put together a presentation. You can kinda go through this with your normal regular budget process as well. That's what this is designed after. And so we'll bring that back with, some tweaks to the public hearing presentation. Hopefully, we'll hit the mark, and you guys can adopt it.

Gotcha. Alright. Councilman Ferguson, you had a question?

Yes. Thank you, mayor. Real quick. We were just talking about the signs. Is is there a distinction between a is there a city sign? Like, there's no, like, standard city sign,

is there? So so we we contracted What

does he pay?

So, yeah. We we we with a vendor who puts out a sign. Then so we have a a a set design that we use with that vendor.

And

so for subdivisions, right, so that's what we're talking about is subdivisions that the developer built a sign twenty years ago, the developer's gone, nobody owns a sign, what happens to it? You know, we we haven't found any other programs to best practice in the state. And so we were going through this where council was getting a lot of consternation because it was taking months and months for a community to to decide on the design that they wanted for their sign. And so we we decided that the best course of action was to offer a sign. So we have a vendor. They they have a signed product. They go out. We contract with them. They go out, get all the permits, put it in. There's a lot of challenges with that program.

As mayor Pro Tem mentioned, sometimes the signs need to go on private properties. Sometimes they're in the street right away, that requires DOT or somebody else to sign off on it. It's it's a very challenging process. And I'm not sure why, but we don't see there's no other cities that we can go grab and borrow examples from. Okay.

So because it's pretty it's a pretty simple process, it seems to me, in in most instances, in most cases. But are you saying that there's only one standard sign that every person can get? Once you apply for it, there's one sign, one looking standard sign.

Single sided and double sided. Yes, sir.

And that's the city side.

Low on the Again, it's a council policy. So it can be changed, tweak, go adjust.

Yeah. Absolutely. It has to be.

Alright. Thank you. Alright. Alright, guys. Thank y'all. Yep. So we'll look look forward to Alright. 603. Sorrows.

Chief.

Good afternoon. Good afternoon.

How are

you, sir?

Alright. Yes,

please. Help me out here. Alright. Good afternoon, mayor, mayor pro tem, city council members. I'm here to provide you an update regarding the school resource officer program.

As you know, we started our program when the sheriff's office was unable to provide the support to our city schools back in June 2024. Since that time, the city, in conjunction with, Cumberland County Schools and, and our department have worked diligently to provide SROs to high schools and middle schools, during this, period of notification. It first initiated with a nine officers that were provided, then we moved to 14. And, this past January, we were able to, meet a requirement of 18 officers at this time. So what I'll do here is to provide you the latest here, which what we are working under the current memorandum of agreement with the Cullman County Schools.

Key parts of the agreement, just wanna make sure that everybody's clear. Some of the key things I wanna make sure is we are providing an increase of communication between law enforcement and the school community. We're also building a positive relationship with those students, which we have already started to see paying off dividends in some of the community events that we have where our SROs are already familiar with a lot of the students. But one thing that we wanna make sure a few things we wanna make sure that you understand that the SROs are not employees of the county or they don't work for the principals. They are under the police department, and they conduct themselves in accordance to that.

Currently under the agreement, CCS reimburses the city for the actual salaries and their benefits. As I stated before, we already have 18 SROs covering nine high schools, six middle schools, and three floating districts. I can elaborate a little bit on that. And, currently, with the agreement, it's either party can terminate that, this MOA and, within a ninety day, written notice. So as I stated before, this is a role in terms of, the SROs in there.

We do not enforce school disciplinary rules, only criminal law. The principles are not directed by the SROs. They must go through any, North Carolina general statutes in order to do any type of searches. And, you know, classroom instructions, all that belongs to to the schools, and we don't get involved in any of that part. As you see here, these are the nine high schools, and you'll see the middle schools that are also and then we have the three floating.

So what we do have, we have three officers that float between the different, districts in order to, make the necessary coverage as you'll see some of the like, Howard Learning Academy in the fall is not as busy. And then we will have in the spring, it tends to be a lot more, populated with students, and then that's where we make the adjustments and and go accordingly. Ideally, it would be great if we have three more SROs to, fully, staff, this particular plan. As you see here, these are the budget that's been allocated for staffing our SROs and traffic control officers, currently about 930 k. This brings us to now here, April 15.

There has to be a notification to CCS regarding, the advancement of this particular MOA. And, so currently, this is where we are at right now. As you see some of the, the renewal, extend the contract to a three year agreement. And instead of having a a very short window of notification, we're, actually recommending to have a twelve month notice of nonrenewal so that we don't have that rush, on the school system to be able to provide any, particular SROs if that does come about. As you see, there's some, other discussions regarding the red light camera being able to help as a funding source, but that's where we're at in in terms of that right now.

So at this point, we're just requesting guidance from council regarding our fifteenth, April fifteenth deadline and how we're gonna move in in in terms of the providing SROs within the schools in our city.

Thank you, chief. I did have a couple questions. Councilor Maher and mayor Pro Tem.

Thank you. Thank you, mayor. Chief, as I look at make sure I'm looking at the right one here. Yeah. As I'm as I look at this $930,000 budget, when we were having our discussions with the school board members, if I remember correctly, they were and I was trying to see it in your budget.

They're They're in by 60%. Mhmm.

So it hadn't been any issue at all. They took care of their budget.

I'll defer that to ACM Yates.

Yep. She said he don't cash the check. Yeah, sir.

It's a massive, sir.

So rebuilding the actual cost.

Great. Great. So

cost neutral. You are, sir.

So as we continue to grow with SROs and the budget grows, we will continue to see that funding request go and be paid from the school board. Okay. That's fantastic. Alright. Thank you, sir. Deputy Thank

you, mister mayor. Thank you, chief. In order to get the first, tell us about your staffing. Because in order for us to give you three more SROs, you would have to incorporate them from some that you have on hand or wait for another recruiting class to come to take their place. Tell me about that.

Yes, sir. So as we're moving in the positive direction in our staffing, that's how we're gonna start backfilling some of these other SRO positions as well as some of the other priorities that we have in our detective bureau and some of our other specialized units. So what we're doing is the staff will sit down and and figure out where where we need to go ahead and put these personnel as we're graduating each of these basic law enforcement training classes.

Now I remember when sheriff Wright left, he mentioned that it is optimal that we try to have an SRO in every school. How would that look on your staffing if we have, what, 29 schools in the city of Fayetteville?

Well, it's actually 49. Sorry.

49. I'm sorry. 49.

That that that would be a that would be a heavy lift

Mhmm.

In terms of being able to provide that. But I I think the the strategy that we have here is placing the SROs in the schools, especially in the high schools and the middle schools, which are really, you know, where we would have more of an impact. The elementary, we don't seem to have that need as much. And so so that's that's the strategy that we're utilizing right now so that it won't be so manpower intensive.

Let me ask you just two more questions. Earlier today, we had a conversation about sidewalks around schools, and our TCOs are just important around our schools as the SROs are. How many TCOs are we short, and what are we doing? Because I know I've talked to major Hunt about coming to some of these community outreaches that council members have to put the word out that we need more TCOs.

So we're allotted allocated for 70, but we currently have 64. And that number fluctuates from week to week.

So is the campaign helping or not?

The campaign for recruitment or Recruitment. For for police officers? Yes. TCO. TCO. Sir. I am constantly signing on new hiring packets for whatever reason. This this is a lot you know, you're about part time workers that are working approximately four hours per day, two in the morning, two in the afternoon. So you may have, individuals that may are doing this that are retired, and then you might have other individuals that are just doing this temporarily until they find full time employment.

And that's what? $20 an hour, isn't it? Yes, sir. That's what

I thought.

Last question. How is I read where it says I can't see where I have it at, but how is OCS coordinating with Cumberland County Schools? I've read it somewhere.

Yes, sir. So we we have been having director Jones being, you know, aware of this. But as they build their staff, you know, they're currently still growing their program. So I I don't wanna speak for director Jones, but I know there is plan for once they build their team and and fully get their self fully staffed, then they will be able to

Assist with SROs or?

Well, not necessarily SROs, but deal with those youth that may need some guidance and some other services in the schools.

Gotcha. Thank you, sir. Thank you, mister Mayor.

Alright. Council member McMillan.

Thank you again, for this information. Seeing this through a community lens and I was actually in classroom when there were discussions around school to prison pipeline in Cumberland County. A lot of those, a lot of the disparities that were noted years ago are still important to our students. And I'm wondering if there is any analysis, if there has been any analysis since FPD took over as in the SRO program of things like arrest rates or juvenile justice referrals or or even the same racial disparities that were that were noted here around ten years ago in in Cumberland County?

So I I don't have that at this time, but I know as time goes on, we'll be able to provide counsel, more information in regard to that. But what I will say in terms of our relationship with the students in that community is definitely building. But, what I would also state in terms of when we're looking at the juvenile justice, system and and how that works, I mean, there's we are, I would say, FPD is the one that's actually, coordinating with them and and trying to make, you know, whatever referrals that would take place, but it's, it's not a as as simple and easy as as many folks think there is. It it it takes a lot in order for the juvenile justice system to really actually get involved. And many times, we, you know, find ourselves if there's a criminal situation that we are taking some of these juveniles directly back to home.

So, you know, I I say there's still some work to be done with juvenile justice, and, you know, we'll just continue working as we can you know, as we always do with the FPD doing our part.

Right. I don't wanna volunteer anybody, anybody's help in this or aid, but I know the the school board was deeply involved in those discussions and and conversations with community around SROs and their their presence in Cumberland County. Education council, the NAACP was deeply involved. This was around a decade ago. But would love that attention to stay on our interactions with the kids. At the end of the day, the students are what's most important there in their safety.

That's

correct. Also, I noted that the red light camera system funding seem to be tied into this. And I don't know if this is a question for you or a question for others that were on the council at the time this was decided. But does this connect us to funding automatically the red light camera system? And if so, is there a connection?

What do you mean? I understand your question.

The red light camera.

So does what connect us?

The SRO? Does funding of the SRO program

No. Because we weren't doing it then when when the red light cameras were were, brought on. Okay. But the it it was a state law that said that the the proceeds generated from that had to be remitted to the schools. We just would send them the money that from the fees less the operating costs and that's what the whole lawsuit was about. Whether you could deduct operating costs or not. And I think they've worked through that. Yeah. Which is why they're back. Yeah.

Can we have an update on that or may I request an update on where

this is? I think it's coming to us anyway because the lawsuit's concluded. So it's coming back for consideration. Okay.

Would love to, as as soon as possible, have have an update on on where that stands.

Alright. Thank you, sir. Council member McNair. Councilwoman McNair. You don't have

to raise my hand. Yeah. About to start raising my hand. Okay. Thank you, chief. I think mayor pro tem kinda, like, touched on this a little bit. I was was geared towards expanding responsibility. I do believe that OCS is actually taking on the responsibility of addressing mental health in the high schools, helping students with resources as far as students that are in crisis.

So I I I don't wanna speak on again, on what OCS' role is, but I I believe that CCS already has a a mental health component within their system Mhmm. That they have. But, you know, there's also some intricacies in terms of making sure that they just can't provide services for a student just because a student is in crisis. They have to get that student's parents or guardian's permission before they can actually provide those. And as as and as I say, don't wanna get into what they do, but I know that they already have a somewhat some type of comprehensive mental health, services provided, within the school system.

Okay. So would that be something that you would be, educating yourself on?

That that's outside of my realm.

I would Director Jones.

Jones? Yes. Alright. That's what I wanted to know if if that was his area. Alright.

Alright. Chief, real quick and and then council, we will look for at least a consensus action so that this can get to us. I know you said August, April 15 was a a date that we had to, to five. Let them know whether we wanted to continue with the process. And, you know, and I remember, bringing this a few years ago. Was on the crime commission in Wake County. I was on there with Wake County sheriff at the time as well as, the municipalities, and and I brought it back because they were explaining how they do it. I saw a reference to the Wake County model in in your report today. Tell us a little bit about about that.

I I know this is proceeding myself in terms of what was but I think that's what we did as a city. We looked at that particular model and modeled the, Cumberland County SRO program based on that or for the Fayetteville PD in order to do that. So I I believe that is the model that we are utilizing.

Yeah. I can help with that. The chief is correct. One of the things that, we were most concerned about is some of the questions that y'all have touched on is that we really wanted the SROs to be engaged with the students and not just seen as disciplinarians. And so you often talk about Sheriff Pitikin and your interactions with him as being positive and role models and supportive that people not necessarily look at this as a that the police officers are there just to enforce rules or to try to cite issues.

It was really a partnership with the school system. And Wake County had a very comprehensive model, too comprehensive actually for some of the things that we wanted to do. And so the chief is here and our goal is, number one, unless there is some concern, we would like to let the school system know that we do plan to renew because if we don't let them know it automatically renews. But that we are also in agreement with the conversation that I had with the superintendent and the chief, deputy chief and other staff members of the school system as well for a three year agreement with a twelve month cancellation policy. We would continue to fund to fill the positions at the high school and middle schools and any additional positions that are needed the three that the chief mentioned would all be provided subject to staffing as well as full cost recovery from the city.

From the schools? From the school systems and the tie in to the red light cameras, a council member McMillan, think that was your question. The original model is that the state provides money to the school systems for the SROs. They do not provide money for the TCOs. And so when we started the program it was the school system was going to pay 100% the first year, 80% the next year, 60% on down until the city actually paid for all the TCOs as well.

And with 64 currently and 70 at full strength is what it is? Yes sir. Full strength. That was going in $20 an hour at four hours a day. Two, a minimum, usually a minimum of two per location, thereabouts I guess.

Yes sir.

For the school system. That was going to not be cost neutral for the city. And so the school system anticipates using the red light camera revenues if and when it is reinstated to pay for that. And they also seemed agreeable to do something that they had not in the past, which I think Mayor Pro Tem was looking at how they can improve traffic and pedestrian safety around the schools. The Mayor will recall this, that before we were asking them to upgrade some of their playground facilities and equipment as well to make it available after hours to the neighborhoods and the school system had uncertain revenues at that time and so they could not commit to using what they saw as these bonus revenues to say we're gonna do X, Z with them.

And so based on our conversation with Doctor. Bracey I think that they are very amenable to that and they see the pathway for that not only as the red light cameras but also as the speed zone enforcement cameras which are really going to make a significant amount of money. And to the earlier question I think it was ma'am that you asked about when will that be coming back, staff can be prepared to come to you at your work session in May with a schedule. We will issue an RFP for the red light cameras and get that program started. One of the things that we would be looking for, which was of great interest to me, is if we can find a vendor who wants the school speed cameras come online that could possibly be an add on to their contract.

But one of the vendor that we had the last time met with myself and staff was it last week?

Yes sir.

And one of the interesting programs they had that we wanna pursue is they not only have red light cameras, they also have the school zone speed cameras, but they also have the quiet zone cameras. So that if you had a program that, an ordinance that says you can't drive past a certain spot and have so much noise from your car, they could actually take pictures of the car. And again, don't know if that's legal in the state of North Carolina yet, but if nothing else it would give us an alert. If you could imagine putting it at the front of downtown and then signs could possibly flash to say your car is making too much noise. And then an officer who's down the street could say okay I'm looking for a white Range Rover or something like that.

Not calling anybody out. Could throw in the Mercedes too,

but yeah.

I think that's the mayor. He got that too, sir. But it was really interesting to see how technology and which one of the items coming up, how technology is really taking over society. But that was a tie in to the red light cameras and they were very, very supportive of that as well last week.

Alright. Thank you, miss Hugh. Thank you. Chief, so counsel, is there a consensus that overall support so that when this comes back, we can get this adopted at the next meeting? Alright. I'll look to you on your Sure system for that. Those in favor?

Don't speak. Alright.

That's nine one. Motion carries. Those voting opposed, council member McMillan. Thanks, chief. We look look forward to it.

Thank you.

Alright. Council six point o four, this was a follow-up discussion on the policy committee's, announcements where we shifted everything. We got a lot more room tonight. So, you know, we appreciate the audience and and those who are coming for the second half of the nice meeting, as we've made the adjustments to get in the recognitions. But this is before us. Mister Hewitt, who's doing the presentation of this item? Okay. So, counsel, where we where we left this was, there was some discussion about, you know, when we acknowledge like, we have one, two, three, four acknowledgements tonight, and there was some question about whether it'll be televised or not. And I think that was one of the key elements. And if I'm missing some

Mister mayor, another key element was about announcements. Some announcements are sometimes before the first Monday and sometimes before the fourth Friday. They won't remember them a month long, if I'm getting that correct. So they wanted to make some type announcements at least every time we had a meeting the second and fourth Monday.

Okay. So so it was to to leave the announcement section because some of it is time sensitive, and then the other part was to whether we Televise. Televise. Recognitions. The recognitions.

Correct.

Alright. So those are two areas up for consideration. Council member Ferguson. Jennifer you had something we missed? Oh. Council member Ferguson you had something?

Thank you, mayor. As we were looking at this, my my thought on this is the purpose of the change of the time before council was because of the time. So if we bring back the acknowledgments and the announcements, then it seems like we would be defeating the purpose of why we changed it in the first place. So my my recommendation would be to record the the announcements in the public forum. If you did that, then you would still be doing what we already always have been doing.

Not only that, it would be a win win win because it would still save us that time. We wouldn't even have to make any policy changes in that instance because it would only add all we had to do is record it because that seems to be the issue. All we had to do is record it where it is now, first Mondays, record both the public forum and the announcements and acknowledgments. So you have it recorded. Everybody's happy. We're good to go. We don't have to make any policy change. That's just my.

Right. So I think it it was a couple things there that that we wanna make sure that we are tracking the separation of it. So the public forum time was expanded from thirty minutes to an hour. Exactly. Alright? To give more citizens a a great opportunity to speak without cutting some off or or doing that. And so that was the thought process behind moving it to a meeting during the day like like this. Right. And we wanted to start it as close to the time that they were kinda used to as possible, which is why we have the gap in between the adjournment of this meeting beginning of the next. The other thing is the recognitions and announcements.

Announcements may be this coming Saturday as an event over at Thus and Such or the we wanna acknowledge women's history month. We wanna you know, that's an announcement. Whereas the recognition is what we're gonna do here later to where we're recognizing people for specific accomplishments. And what they were saying was doing that all at the same time created a longer start time. So I think if if the council unpacks that, the the bigger issue is like when the girl scouts received their recognition for the hard work that they did One recorded.

Is it recorded? Right. And so so if we can if we can acknowledge the the recognition component first, then we can go to if y'all want to move something back or or if you wanna I think the public forum piece worked. Last time we had more people than we had seats. Now we've got more seats. And so we'll see if if that works. But both will be up for council discussion, but I just wanna make sure we don't conflate them and we we take them one at a time if if possible. Alright. Yes, sir.

I just wanted to say if we recorded those two on Mondays without changing policy, it would address all of those issues.

Alright. Councilmember McMillan McNary. Yeah. Thank you, mister

Mayor and members of the city council for the record I just want to put on the legislative record that there's precisely something that's being done with this and it what it looks like is segregation of the public forum and I'll talk about why. For years, the city of council broadcast this public forum on camera alongside awards and recognitions and regular meetings proceedings. Residents could go online and watch their neighbors speak to this council. They could watch the testimony and form their own judgments. That televised broadcast was a cornerstone of democratic accountability in the city.

What is what has been proposed and what I'm formally placing on the record is removal of the public forum from on camera televised proceedings and segregation from other meetings. Under the structure before us every function of the city or most functions of the city will remain on camera with the exception of the public forum and citizen speech will not. And I would appreciate if that if that sentence is is included on the record. Fayetteville is a limited public forum under the first amendment. This council has wide discretion over format and the timing of the public comment.

What we do not have is the authority to systemically regulate or relegate citizen speech to a lesser or nonexistent place in the official record while other facets of expression enjoy full broadcast protection. When the government selectively archives its own speech and erases the record or diminishes the record of citizens speaking back to it, that's not administration, that's suppression. To the residents of Fayetteville watching or listening to this, you have rights you have remedies. The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression or FIRE takes government censorship cases at no cost. The ACLU of North Carolina has challenged municipal speech restrictions on in the Fourth Circuit, which governs us.

The NAACP Legal Defense Fund has pursued equal protection challenges as well. These organizations can be reached today. The legal intake forms are online. If this policy is not corrected today, I encourage residents to contact them. But litigation should be a last resort. The first and foremost powerful remedy is the ballot box. Residents of Fayetteville, pay a close attention to which council members vote to remove your speech from the on camera con broadcast today. Make note of who supports your right to be seen and heard and who does not. Every seat on this, diocese is an elected seat. Every vote here is a public record.

And in this city, an informed electorate, it turns out consistently has changed this council. These changes are not happening because citizen engagement has failed. They are happening because citizen engagement has succeeded.

Council member McNamee Miller. I'm supposed the question at the end.

The residents of this city have shown up. They've asked hard questions about data centers, about police accountability, about closed sessions, about who this government actually does actually serves. Frederick Douglass gave us the words for this moment more than a hundred fifty years ago. Power concedes nothing without a demand. Never did, and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to, and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them and these will continue till they are resisted with either words of lows or with both. Do not submit quietly.

Councilman Milley got

to break down. Need to be on the record to be seen and heard. Alright.

Alright. Thank you. Alright. Councilman McNair.

Thank you, mister mayor. Along with what councilman McMillan is speaking of, would there be an opportunity for public feedback? Am I talking to

Pro Tem?

Would there be opportunity for public feedback regarding these changes before finalization on April 13? If so, what mechanisms would be in place to collect and address this input?

Alright. So couple questions that that are before us, tonight. One is, the announcements and recognitions well, let's deal with the announcements. The announcements are more time sensitive, and there was a a request or a question whether to keep that, on every meeting as we have it. Okay? Because some things are more sensitive. And so we'll we'll take a we'll take a vote on that first, and then we'll we'll dispose of that. Any any questions on that? This is just the announcement part.

Okay.

Oh, I mean

Yes, sir. Don't need the community.

Announcements for just the council members to announce community events that are happening.

Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's an announcement section to announce community good. You know, in other words, there there are certain public service announcements or community good related events that all of us get or want to make sure that we're aware of. That's what we're talking about. Alright. Questions on that? Anybody?

I have a question on that.

Yes, When

was the decision made to to separate after after the, the decision to lump the announcements together with the public forum? When was that made, and and by who was that made?

Well, we're back here because the council, when they heard this presentation, wanted to have more discussion about it and bring it to a work session.

So my my specifically about what

we're doing. My question is is that there that the things that we're addressing tonight were the discussion points that came forward. One was, as council member Ferguson led this off, whether it was an announcements and recognition being moved back to Monday or to leave it where it is, and then two was the recording. And three was if the public forum was gonna be recorded or if it was gonna remain. So you you had scheduling and you had announcements recognition in public forum.

So right now, just so that the issues are clear, we'll see if there's a consensus to do the announcements. If you wanna then add, as we move down to recognitions, to have that same question asked, if you wanted to make it announcements and recognition at each meeting, we can do that. And then we'll get to the public forum component of it to see if any changes or recording questions or the other things that came up from the previous meeting. But all of what we're discussing tonight was some of the highlights that we started this meeting now. And, Jennifer, am I missing anything from from those minutes?

No. I just want to confirm that when you say all meetings, we're talking about announcements now on the work session So currently,

at at the beginning of our council meetings, there's an well, it's So originally, before the change was made, there was a a place in the beginning of the meetings right before we go to the city manager's report that you said

Yes. So this is members would

say I

have an announcement.

Right. But this item is specifically talking about taking the announcements and recognitions back off the work session at the end and moving it just to the second and fourth.

Right. Under understand. Okay. Which we're here now to make a decision about that. So as we've talked about it, there were a number of things that came up that prompted this to be kicked back to the work session.

So you remember when this was presented to counsel and and there were a number of questions and discussions that came up to include, is it gonna be recorded? Do we need to move it back? And then then it also came up when council members were trying to in fact, council member Hondros, some of the folks that council member here had put in a request to make a presentation to it, scheduled a date, and then we had to make a special exception for that after we had moved it. So we're just trying to clean all of that up, those kind of things that came back. But I'm trying to not let's take it one item at a time just to see.

Because at the end of it, if we end up where all of it's on the same we make the same decision about all of it, at least you you know, that's that outcome will be there regardless of whether you take it one item at a time. But right now, we have different components of each one being conflated, and so I wanna make sure that we're understanding what we're talking about. So at the beginning, there was an announcement. The the first question is about announcements.

Mhmm.

Did you want council members do you want council members to continue to be be able to make announcements at the beginning of council meetings?

For the second and fourth Monday.

Right. That that's the question that's on the floor. Okay. And then we can we can take it from there.

And no longer on the work session then?

You can make announcements on the work session. Yeah.

All all Yeah.

Yes. Right. All council meetings. Is there a place that you wanna reserve in the beginning of council meetings for announcements?

Can I can I just ask a question procedurally, mister mayor? Procedurally, the procedure for me if I want a motion on the floor, if I want something to be addressed on on a meeting, I spell it out in a council member request. I put that in. It's it's very clearly clearly articulated for everybody. There's not this splitting up of issues on the diocese at on the moment. I don't have the power to do that. I'm wondering procedurally does the mayor have the the power to do that. Where is

your council member request? It's no longer a request, it's an item.

So this item by splitting up in three the way you're doing seems to be betraying what

is Well written on the I understand your opinion but as of right now 6.04 is asked to be considered. It doesn't have your name, it's not a request. You get

ten minutes to I'm not asking you.

Asking for

understand. But right right now, I I have have a proposed I'm asked for a proposed motion to consider item number one. So I I I'm chair of meeting. You can actually proceed with your question shortly. Alright. It's count may I pro temi had something on that? Because we

Yes. I was ready for the vote, mister mayor.

Alright. So so the vote, it's a consensus. Not in official meetings. This is just a consensus. Is there and this vote will be is there a consensus to keep the ability of council members to make announcements at the beginning of meetings? If if there are, you know, if you have an announcement, it's not a mandatory thing, but if if there's the discretion to make announcement. Alright. You had a question? Turn your mic on. Turn your mic on. Ma'am?

I said the purpose of moving it from the beginning was what? What was the purpose?

It it was moved to it was moved to this meeting altogether. Right? But then you have council members who just like we had to adjust for the seating, you didn't foresee every particular circumstance. So you had events that were coming up that couldn't wait till next month to announce it. So this would give the council members the ability to make those announcements at the beginning of a meeting. Maybe a community good that comes up Saturday, but if you say it's only gonna happen on the first Monday, then you'll talk about it after the event has passed. Oh, okay. You see what I'm saying?

I just need a little clarity.

Right. Only for

Right. Only for announcements.

Yeah. We're gonna get to Okay. Alright. Alright. Council, we're gonna take for action on that.

Who are missing, madam clerk?

Council member Jones.

Alright. Alright. Alright. So you got a clarity on that. Alright. So now it's the recognitions. So, counsel, any any amendments or changes to recognitions? Recognitions was recommended by count, by the policy committee. It was, supported by counsel to move the recognitions to occur this evening on the first Monday work session. Okay? And that is where we acknowledge people for their community contribution or community good. And so that's what we're talking now. Councilman Ferguson, you had a question?

Thank you mayor. So you're saying that's where we are now but we we've already moved it from the second to the first.

It is. Are there any changes that you would like to make to it? That's the question. So some of the discussion that came up before was do you want it recorded? And there were there were there were conversations, so it's on the floor now for discussion.

So the as far as it's saying is the question is do we move it back to the second Monday according to

That could be a question or it could be you may just wanna say I wanna have it recorded or whatever rules the council wants to put around that, this is the time to discuss.

So and I and I'll go back to my first statement. We've already made that move. If we're gonna try to move it back to add more time that we were trying to get rid of, we are defeating the purpose. My thing would be to record it as is. We don't have to change

the policy.

The policy has already been changed for a reason. Just record both of them and we everything I'll look at it. Everything that both right now we changed it back to the first Monday. Correct? Right. Like today. If we record the public forum and we record the acknowledgements, we've satisfied everybody.

You're never gonna do that, brother. But okay.

I'm say And and we don't have to change the policy and bring it back to what we just took it from. Why not just record because that's We're

the

not

public forum. We're recording. Those are the issues. If we record both of them, we will issue will be resolved, and we wouldn't have to change policy.

Thank you, sir. Thank you, mayor. Alright. Councilmember Jones.

Yes, sir. When appropriate, I would make a motion or move to allow us to record recognitions in the public forum at that time. I'm in I'm in agreement with that. We made the shift so I think for me it's just the recording of it is fine.

Alright, council member McMillan.

Yeah, I just wanted to offer a friendly amendment to the mayor in terms of how this is packaged. I think it is different if you split them all up, all three up. We're gonna get some different inputs and different votes But would you be willing to lump these activities together and say that all of them should be recorded as a first vote?

We may get there, Councilman McMillan, but right now speak your piece on this because right now we're dealing with recognitions and then we'll get the public forum and we can have That was a

friendly amendment offered. Sir? It was a friendly amendment offered.

Alright. Well, it it's gonna be council member Jones who I'll go to for it and he can entertain that or or not. Alright. Council Meandros.

I was just gonna second the motion as is.

Alright. Alright. So so councilman Jones, you wanna repeat that?

The motion was to record the recognitions and the public forum as they are set for the first Monday's first Monday work session meetings.

Alright. And is there a second to it?

Well, let me let me clarify first, mister mayor. We're not talking about the public forums once again, so it has to be separate in your motion. We're only talking about the recognitions. And I think the recognitions is also the first Monday and the fourth Monday.

It's So

But that's that's my particular motion. I mean, may die. It's fine, but that's that's just the motion.

Right. And and and then any and and listen. Recording is just one component of each of these. Right? And so I'm still gonna go to whether this passes or not to see if there's any other discussion we wanna have with the public forum just so we clear this up. And then that we would we would have we would have addressed announcements, recognitions, and public forums completely.

Just for clarification, Mr. Mayor, are we talking about video recording or audio and video recording? Because there is a difference.

Alright. Councilman Jones? What's your motion? Both. Thank you. K. Alright. May I pro tip my head? No. Comes. Alright. Alright. So, motion or the consensus motion is to record announcements well, excuse me, recognitions and public forum, audio or video recording of of the meeting, which is basically recording the meeting. Which yeah. Alright. Alright. Counselor, any questions? Alright. Look to you for your votes on that. How do we miss?

You, sir.

Me? I voted first.

You voted, sir. I saw your

Alright. We good? Alright. Alright. Now any discussion, or changes that want that council desires to have a conversation about the public forum? Okay. Alright. Alright. I'm just I'm just clear clear in the air because we're we're trying to move past this once we give them

you

had a question? Yeah.

Yes, sir.

Yes. Alright. Council member Davidson here.

I don't have any question. Thank you, miss Mayor. I'm sorry.

Alright. Council member here. Thank you, mayor. And maybe the clerk or anyone on diocese can help me to understand and give me some full clarity. So what we have basically done, what had taken place in the policy, for the most part has completely gone back. No. Hold hold hold it. Let me let me finish. Had basically gone back to where it was outside of thirty minutes to one hour. The hour part is not to change.

We were thirty minutes to one hour. We've gone back. That's the only part that we didn't change. Just give me some clarity. No,

sir. So before that was taking place on the fourth Monday of a council meeting. So the biggest change was it moved to its own day and its own meeting, and you're able to extend the time by doing it that way. So it's an hour versus to thirty minutes. So we didn't change the date or the time. All we simply did was change the fact that when they're recording a meeting, it'll just include recording that component of it. So is that everybody's understanding what we just did? Yeah. So so no other changes were made that I that I heard captured. Received. Understood. Councilmember McMillan and then here I mean, in McNair.

Yeah. Thank you, mister mayor. Just, on on the record, this this is a change that should have never been made. No no citizen, no resident ever asked us to to switch these around.

Councilmember McMillan, all due respect we've already moved past that. It if this is something germane to that then we've got a meeting but no no more to something