Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. That one's yours. Yeah. Okay. Let's call the Wednesday, April 15th, 2026 meeting of the Falls Church City Planning Commission to order. Uh Mr. Trainer, can you call the role, please? Mr. Pinsky here. Mr. Duncan here. Mr. Kont I'm here. Mr. Stevens here. Miss Freedellander here. Mr. Kinsky here. Thank you. Mr. Kraner's absent, but we have a quorum. Great. Thank you. Uh, any comments on the agenda? If not, can I have a motion to adopt it? Madam Chair, move to adopt the meeting agenda. Is there a second? Second. All in favor? I I Okay. Uh I summary of written correspondence. I think we had a couple things in the packet. Yeah. The um Bike Falls Church wrote to the commission uh submitted two separate petitions uh both that were budget related.

Um advocating for different transportation improvements and um bicycling and pedestrian safety um items in the upcoming budget. Great. Thank you. Appreciate uh including those. Um, do we have any inperson petitions tonight? No, chair. Okay. Okay. So, that I think brings us to our action items. Uh, the first is the Oak Park subdivision amendment, sewer easement. Welcome, Mr. Zang. Thank you. Good evening, Mad Chair, members of the planning commission. Uh, for the record, my name is Henry Zan with the planning department. Uh this subdivision application in front of you is very limited in scope. Uh basically it's to amend the uh sewer eastman boundary. Uh the planning commission is requested to hold a public hearing and take final action on the proposed amendment uh on the final plat of subdivision of the oak park to accommodate as build conditions on the subject site located at 150 North Oak Street. Uh just a quick look back. This is the first T1 zone site plan and for for 12 town homes approved by the planning commission uh back on May 1st, 2024. Uh following the approval, the site grading work began in December 2024 and the site infrastructure completed in the first quarter of 2025 and the construction of the town home basically lasted whole 2025. Um the final cos were issued in uh February of this year. Basically currently 12 town hall are all occupied. Um the reason for this amendment because a

few error happened. Uh the one of the main hole constructed outside the boundary of the eastman. Uh on the exhibit number one, you will hear this is the asute site conditions. Uh the red dot uh on the um coast to the end of the alley. That's the new location and the black dot that's the original approved uh manhole location. uh this proposed amendment does not have any impact on the previous finding of approval which are will remain in full force and effect. Uh on the exhibit number two you will see two graphics. The upper one uh is previously approved sewer eman to be vacated and the proposed new sewer eman is on the lower uh graphic. Uh staff recommends that planning commission approve the proposed amendment and the motion. Uh this concludes the comments. Um, I assume there's no impediment to people going up and down that uh that driveway. No, sir. Cuz it's it's flat. I went by and looked and it seemed like it was I couldn't see it hardly. It was just invisible. But yes, sir. Nobody will be able to see it uh because it's not on the public right away because within the alley between the two row of the town home. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Any other questions? I mean, it's a pretty straightforward item. Uh, if there are no other questions or discussion, um, would somebody like to make the motion that staff is drafted at the top of the staff report? I make the motion.

Great. Thank you, Mr. Kinsky. Uh, proposed motion. Whereas the planning commission finds that the proposed subdivision application meets all the applicable requirements of the city subdivision regulations chapter 38 and zoning ordinance chapter 48 as they currently as they are currently applied and the subdivision application is consistent with the comprehensive plan. And whereas the proposed debenient is previously approved, uh sewer easement on the final plan will accommodate the asbuilt conditions on the subject site. And now therefore, I move that the planning commission grant approval of the final plat with the revised sewer easement in the alley of the 12 unit town home development that has been constructed and occupied. Is there a second? Second, Mr. Duncan with a second. Uh, could we have a roll call vote, please? Mr. Trainer. Mr. Pollinsky. Yes. Mr. Duncan, yes. Mr. Stevens, yes. Miss Freellander, yes. Mr. Kinsky, yes. And Chair Common, yep. Thank you. Motion passes. Thank you. Thanks for coming out tonight. Okay, that brings us to our second item, which is our minutes from the March 18th meeting. Uh, I had one small change. Did anybody else have any changes? Uh, I had a couple of little very little things. Outline's yours. Uh, let's see. It was on the um urban design master plan. In my my comments, I also recommended,

let's see, it says considering ADA, universal design, commercial ground floor activation, the public realm, and city gateways. Um I had also included in my list um bicycle infrastructure or bicycle yeah bicycle infrastructure or bike facilities and shade. Yeah, thank you. Um what was yours? Mine's minor on line 43. I believe we want discussed instead of discussion. You know, I had a comment on that, too, but go ahead. Go ahead. Mine. The next one is a little further down. All right. Well, on line 43, it says, "Mr. Stevens, I think it's supposed to be discussed." Yeah. Uh the proposed, and I don't think it was quite net zero. That would have been good if that design was net zero, but I think it was just low low emissions. So, it would be the proposed low emission design. Okay. And my other one is line 73. I meant to look it up to make sure. But if something is complimentary to something else, is it e comp? It's with an e. I think it's with an e. Yeah. Even if it complements it, it's complimentary. Well, I mean, maybe the material speak. I don't know. Yeah, complimentary. That's all I had with those changes. I move adoption of the minutes of the meeting. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. All in favor? I I Okay. Thank you. And thank you, Mr. Trainer, for capturing those. Uh I think that brings us to our work session, uh which is 8:15 West Broad Street, site plan. Welcome, Jeff.

Uh, good evening, uh, Chair Kont and members of the planning commission. I'm Jeff Holland with the planning staff. Uh, tonight, yeah, Jack, if you can bring up that letter, that'd be helpful. Thanks. Um, uh, tonight, uh, staff is requesting feedback and recommendation on a new site plan application for the redevelopment of a dental office at 8:15 West Broad Street. Uh, the subject site is located across from St. James Catholic School and directly west of the Broadfalls mixed use uh project or building uh and is the current site of Broadway Dental Associates. Uh the applicant is proposing to demolish uh the existing structure to construct a three-story office building and expand the existing business. Uh given the constraints of the site uh with the size and the shape, uh the ground level will be primarily uh surface parking and a drive aisle. Uh the drive lane and spaces will be partially covered by two floors including um 10,466 ft of office space to be used uh by the dental office. Uh city staff wrapped up its first review on Monday the 13th uh so two days ago uh and generated the list of comments uh requesting items uh such as uh but not limited to uh parking calculation correction and the request for a parking modification. uh missing infrastructure detail and storm water design issues uh and then also landscaping uh and canopy compliance. Uh these comments were transmitted to the applicant team yesterday on April 14th. Uh as part of the staff review, uh we look at the proposal's conformance with the city's comprehensive plan and the relevant areas of the West Broad Street small area plan. Uh the proposal addresses several strategies from chapter 4 of the comp plan that ask to promote thoughtful redevelopment of commercial and office areas uh to strengthen economic stability and

enhance the city's character. Uh the West Broad Street small area plan also promotes redevelopment like this but with a greater focus on varied building materials, ensuring sanitary sewer capacity, and expanding tree canopy coverage. Uh last week the architectural advisory board met uh to discuss this proposed project uh and provided a recommendation to the designated agent with requests that the applicant find ways to enhance the blank wall on the west uh west facade and incorporate some variation throughout the long rows of windows along the east facade. Um I do think I have that mixed up uh on the uh letter here, but uh this is right. Uh timing on the application um is under the 40-day review window uh for in in place for site plans. Um an official submission date of March 27th, 2026 means that the designated agent action deadline is May 5th, 2026. Uh that's it for my staff report. Uh I do know that there are several folks uh from the applicant team that are online um that can help answer any questions and I'll stay here too. Okay, great. Uh would the applicant like to make any comments or the team like to make any comments before the planning commission asks questions? Uh surely u madame comment um my name is Shafi Mukquadin and I'm part of the engineering and development team. We try very hard to be consistent with the small area plan as well as the comprehensive plan and uh as Mr. Hollerman mentioned uh the constraints of the site uh lend itself um uh we were limit limited to what we could do with this site because of how it was uh configured. So, we did the best we could there and we want to enhance even more as we discussed it with the

architectural review team and um we're here to do whatever we have to do to make this a model project for the city of Falls Church. Great. Thank you. I think that's our shared goal. Uh all right. Well, any questions or comments? Would anybody like to kick us off? opinion as to how we comments. Are there particular areas that you want to want more information on? Um I think general questions I had um and thank you for joining us tonight. Appreciate you you being here with us. Is there aside from the dental office, is there already um companies that are intending to lease the space or do you have companies intending to lease the space there? No, not at all. Um sir, this is only contained for the dental uh uh professionals and everyone that's connected with that. So it's all inclusive for just the dental office in the dental business. Okay. So this isn't an extra office space on top of a dental office. Not at all. Not at all. Okay. Go ahead. Uh let me just jump in on that with a little more specific question. Thank you for joining us tonight. So the current dental operation occupies about 900,000 square ft. Is that what the materials say? And the new building will be 10,000 square ft. So that's a considerable expansion of the current business if it's the current business that aims to go into this space. Do you have any thoughts about that as far as scaling up

the traffic that you get there now compared to what you would hope to get to fill up uh the seats in a 10,000 ft² dental facility? Excellent question. We asked that same question when we were designing this and uh the answer that came back to us from the client was they have two locations and they spread their clients out under these two locations. But what they would like to do is bring everyone to this one location and stagger it based upon appointments as well as the staffing to take care of all of their clients. So they feel that if they do this new facility and propose this new facility that they'll have increased business and they will not alienate any of their other clients. So it's only for uh the the dental clients for the two locations that they have. The uh current availability of parking on the site is how many spaces? We showed uh Are you asking me or you asking? And I assume you probably know it better than better than anybody else. The staff knows a lot, but they do a great job though. They do a great job. Um we showed 24 spaces. The requirement was 31. And the reason we had that 19% reduction is because in discussions with the client themselves, uh they thought that they would not need the 31 spaces. In fact, they thought that 24 spaces was more than they needed based upon how they schedule their uh technicians and their doctors and they schedule their appointments. So, um, we scratched our head on it and we trusted

their word on it and we actually asked them to do a little, uh, a little chart so that we can know the timing and they simply said we schedule based upon uh, what the needs are and we don't overload any of our uh, technicians or doctors. We're not we're not doing that. So, we took their word for it. Okay. That's I I should have been more specific in my question. Let let me return to that last point you made after going back to the first one. The current use of the dental facility has how many parking spots and do we have any notion or data that show what the fill rate the fill percentage of those current parking spots is? In other words, right now, if I go to the dentist at your place, am I going to run into, you know, a parking lot in the front or back, mostly in the back that has ample room, or am I going to, you know, we want things to be as tight as they can because we don't want to waste space on parking, but we do not have a lot of other options along that stretch of Broad Street for parking. If it isn't self-contained on your lot, then it isn't. So, back to the question, do we have any count and usage data on the current parking lot? That would help us judge whether we can trust what we're hearing or we need to verify it. Sure. Sure. And uh that again, um well, I'm not the owner of the property. We are the developers and the professionals to help the client uh get to the finish line on this. Uh but we asked that same question if they could give us some data to show that. But if you were to go anytime, you will find that the parking lot one is not full and two, you'll always have a space because of how they

uh schedule their appointments is what I was uh told to do. All right. That's uh if uh can I add something? Sure. We're doing I'm I'm Bisho. I'm a civil engineer working uh with Sheffy in this project. So if your question how many barking we have right now the existing condition showing three barking in the front and there's an asphel bed in the back. So I'm not sure if they using it for the barking or not. So technically we can say we have only three right now in the front. I'm looking at uh Google Maps and it looks like the there is there are at least like three or four maybe five vehicles parked in the back from the satellite view. Um so you know but I think you're right it looks like there are three in the front uh and then there's some number in the rear of the property. I think it would be helpful to the I think one of our recommendations to the designated agent could be to have a table with the or request a table with the current parking availability and utilization and then um yeah please go ahead. If you open sheet three the existing condition you will see that we have um uh emphasize that we have three parking spot in the front but there is no marking or anything. There is asphelt parking in the back. Yeah. Yeah. I went over and looked at that back parking lot. It's It's pretty bleak back there. Yeah. Yeah. They're not striped, but they're being used. It's a It's a space that you could could park in. Yeah. Okay. Well, I have other questions, but I'll just ping one right now since I interrupted. Go ahead. No, you go. Uh it's the discussion that you've instigated on interval scheduling. So, Danny Danny and I are going to go to the dentist and I'm going to be done at 11:00. What time is Danny coming for the next appointment if he's next in line after me? The reason I ask is the reason that I'm and I maybe you know the answer, maybe

you don't. We have learned in doing developments around town of many different sizes that there is ample parking for, you know, the person who is in the chair at the time his or her appointment is scheduled. What we don't have ample parking for is the person who comes in after them and is 10 minutes early because the person in the chair hasn't left yet. And this is especially true when it comes to staff. You know, your dental hygienist is on shift at 8:00 and runs till 2:00 and the next one starts at 2:00 and runs well, the second one's going to be there at 1:30 just to make sure he or she's on time. And we don't have the parking to accommodate that sort of shift turn. So, this is the first opportunity I can think of on a building of reasonable scale. It's a pretty good size building for false church to make sure that we're not going to have people complaining, frustrated, parking who knows where in the apartment parking lot, which is going to get them towed. Um, you know, if if you've got some magic interval parking formula that you're confident will work for uh patients as well as staff, I feel like that's something that we'd like to know about. So, we'd like to apply it to other future developments that may come down the road. That that's excellent. That's an excellent uh uh question and statement. And uh I think that we could work with the owner and based upon their two locations, we can put a uh matrix together which could show that and could uh include uh the patients as well as staffing and the time intervals for those that come early. And then those well hopefully they're not late but for those that come the for those that come early and making sure that there's ample parking for that so we can work on that

matrix. All right. Okay. Thank you Madam Chair and thank you Danny for letting me cut in. Yeah. No, not a problem. Um Mr. Duncan's out of luck cuz I'm always late so I'm going to be taking up space in his appointment before he ever gets there. Um question for you. I'm looking I did some back of the napkin math and I'm looking at three or four chairs, dental chairs in the current 900 footish building and then I'm guessing what 20 Do you know how many chairs would be dental chairs would be in the new building? I'm guessing 5,000 half the square footage is actual area. I don't want to guess, but I would like to ask the uh the owner how many specific chairs between the two locations would she like to have, right? Or plan on having at this location because that would be part of our matrix as well. Yeah. And this is an adult dental facility or is it pediatric as well? No, it's Well, uh my understanding is it's adult, but if it is pediatric, I'm going to have to uh get more input on that, but uh it's supposed to be adult. And so any qu Mr. Holler and I the formality of this gets me every time. But question for you is this is there any is this site plan for review or for approval? Is this a special exception or is it a byite? No, it's by right use. So, it's just a commentary. We're providing Yeah, we're providing uh recommendations to the designated agent. Yeah. So, like the question is can does Mr. Matusig? I'm This is like an honest question. Does he have a decision to make or is this just Yeah, he has a decision to make. If they are requesting a variance for or a a whatever waiver, thank you. For the for the parking waiver, that would be something that he would need to grant. So, they need to provide evidence that they've they that these 24 spaces that they're proposing is sufficient.

I believe it's 28 that's needed. I'm not sure what the 31 31 is needed. Yeah. Well, that's it's 28. 28. Uh I think well there it's a little bit of confusion on how many there was some confusion because I think that they used a different uh the wrong parking ratio uh on their initial submitt. Um on the sheet itself it says uh one space for every 450 square feet. Uh for a dental use um it's one per 300 square feet which which itself is pretty arbitrary. Yeah. There are um and so uh and then there's also that uh the 1,200 square ft that uh for office uses that gets kind of taken out of that equation. Um so uh so yeah so part of staff's comments was that 31 spaces are needed. um they are providing 24 um so I think it's about a 19% reduction they'd be looking for um and and I also just wanted to mention too is that part of that parking reduction request they would need to submit a TDM narrative or justification um and so we did ask for that on a on a next submitt um and that would hopefully clarify things like you know um you know how many seats maybe they have you know dental seats that they have you know how many customers come in and go and during the and and uh and also uh I mean a lot of these uses use you know they're close to a certain bus stop or they're you know they have bike parking or you know so yes um that would all be clarified on a TDM great thank you Mr. Holland uh Mr. Kavinsky or Oh, sorry. Were you Go ahead. Oh, sorry. Okay. Go ahead. Are you I didn't I'm all good. Okay, good. Your turn. Uh so, just to clarify here, um this is by right. Uh no waivers, no variances. Uh the only thing that the designated agent is going to rule on is an

exception for parking once he reviews the transportation demand management requested it. But uh they will be requesting a 19% parking reduction 19%. But that's the only thing that is any variance to the goat. Yes. that that the otherwise the designated agent wouldn't have necessarily any grounds for disapproving the site plan. Um the the designated agent um does go off of you know your recommendation but also staff's recommendation right now given the long list of comments um that staff has provided. um this current application um I would say is not approvable only because you know there's certain um storm water requirements that they need to meet um zoning requirements uh that we need on the site plan and so uh right now I would say that this is not something that staff can recommend to the uh designated agent because of missing elements in the application yes code necessarily variances to code right no but they may need to once Once a list of shortfalls are identified, then they may need to come in for for waiverss. So, let me just understand what the decision is on the parking. Okay. So, we'll make a recommendation to the designated agent. Um, the designated agent will review the transportation to TDM and make a decision as to whether they he recommends reducing the number of parking spaces or not based on our recommendations, based on his judgment. I'm I'm I'm a little confused as to what his criteria are in terms of evaluating that reduction and whether that 19% is

acceptable or not. When I look at for instance the updates to the code associated with um the new designated the naming of the designated agent when you look at for instance the landscaping code it's very well defined as to what his left and right limits are but in this case let's say the designated agent looked at the TDM and said and it it justified he wouldn't do this but let's say he said all of my patients are bikers, so I don't need any parking. Uh, he could in fact accept that rationale there. There's right there's there's no left and right limits that says he's not allowed to accept that rationale. I I think that the designated agent would um would would probably uh a use his best judgment on that and also be um you know he would he would take into account what the comp plan says and what the small area plans say. He takes all of that into account and what the code says. Now if somebody so they are code required to have some parking um and the uh and and so the reduction is just because uh really it's always very vague. Sometimes uh given the use they don't need as much parking. For example uh one of the site plans that was approved last year for econized closet. That's a great example. that one uh that one had a lot of square foot square footage but didn't need as much parking because there wasn't very many customers coming to the site at any given time. So I think the planning commission was ultimately the one that approved that one but uh you all were able to say well look that makes a lot of sense um they don't need as much parking because of this. Okay. So yes we made a subject a subjective decision that that made sense. Yes. And we approved it as the planning commission.

Yes. Right now that that decision process is with the designated agent and he can there there are no specific code to say 19% is acceptable but 21% is not. I I I do believe uh somewhere there is some some more guidance on on on that um as far as what is um you know getting into the territory of being a variance. Um I'm not sure exactly where I read that, but I I do think that once it gets to a certain uh a certain extent then there will probably be a you know a BZA requirement. And I I was just looking at the designated agent responsibilities. Sure. that uh that are in the code now. And it really just says that he's, you know, he has to take, you know, uh car poolool and van pool spaces into account and bike share stations into account. He looks at the transportation plan and then he ultimately makes a decision based on his best judgment. Yes. Yeah. And the only thing that I would suggest is if we're going to give that authority to the designated agent, we may want to suggest that the code be a little bit more specific as it is with the landscaping section to say here's what he's allowed to do and here's what he's not allowed to do. Not that we don't trust a designated agent, but you know, it it does seem as though he should have some left and right limits as to what he's allowed to approve and not approve. It's been before council for a couple of years now, the intention to go through and kind of refresh our our code on parking. It's just something they haven't gotten to yet, but I think the intention is there to do that. Yeah.

I mean well that and that's good. Well I think the recognition is that the current requirements that we have are from ages past. It doesn't kind of reflect uh you know kind of current behavior but trying to change those uh requirements is I'm sure not an easy task. So, but if we're going to get put the approval, take it outside of the public review process such as the planning commission and a public hearing for approval, then I think we need to make sure our code reflects what in fact the designated agent could do. It should be part of his whenever we get to it. That's that was my only comment. Thank you. Uh, yep. Go ahead. Can I just piggyback on this for just a minute? I think it's really important to to take into account that the example that we used for Econise, they had their occupancy plans, their charts, their full floor plans. So, it was very easy for us to understand what is going into this structure. This on the other hand, I'm I mean I do this for a living and I was really challenged to understand what this was actually going to be developed as until I got the staff letter yesterday. That Thank you for putting that together because I was literally combing through stuff trying to understand what's the overall square footage growth. How do we justify like the square footage growth? how many dentists, excuse me, are actually going to be practicing. And I think to your point, the occupancy of that square footage starts to dictate the need. And without that information, it's it is subjective, right? You could say anything you want. So I think it's

really important that our even if it's by right that the site plan has to have some basic information in order to even make it through the first review. I mean, this client is clearly or this this applicant is clearly putting a substantial investment into the this property and the redevelopment of it. And it's something that is going to be in our city and affecting precedent for future development for the next 50 years potentially, right? If it's if they're using the right materials that are going to last, things like that. So, I think it's really important that there's some clarity to what we're actually reviewing and agreeing to saying, "Yes, this is actually by right. It fits into the code. It fits into the zoning." There's it was really hard to even see that they were there were setbacks until I got the um documentation from the city staff. So, I mean, if we're It was really surprising just the lack of detail that came across. I mean, the most detailed item was the trash enclosure, which is the whole that's like in the back at the very back and buried, you know, on the site. It's not even something that would be part of the pedestrian experience. So, it's like really hard to take a look at this and really understand is this does this actually meet the comprehensive plan intent. I don't I don't know because I'm fully behind what the AAB recommendations were, which was more detailed to the materials, specification of them, the color of them, what's the quality of them, right? I know it's by right and it's all something that they can do, but give us the bare minimum. This isn't even the bare minimum to make

an educated, excuse me, an educated choice decision on how to recommend acceptance of this. Um, so you know, I it sounds pretty harsh, but the amount of investment that is going into this, it's such a waste of everybody's time and resources staff-wise, boards and commission wise, and for the applicant to have to go through this process again, right? Because they don't have enough information. So, um, that's that. And that all of that aside, I do have some questions just about overall how the site is working. Um, so uh the easement that is shown here, that is the driveway easement that is shared with the adjacent property. How does that work with the new garage setup and parking setup? Um, is that still noted as a shared easement on the new set of drawings? So, what happens to that other property's other easement? I'm I'm assuming that big horseshoe driveway is a shared easement. Yeah, we we looked at that as ourselves. So when it comes on to uh the owner's property uh we were looking for a vacation at that point of the easement as it relates to the property and once it become comes on to prop onto the property if it's needed uh to utilize any part of the travel access way then so be it. But uh you know that that horseshoe was something that we looked at ourselves and we just thought it was uh it it seemed to be that whoever owned the adjacent parcel was looking to do

something together but then these were split and uh it was would then be treated differently. So that's a little challenge that we have to have but it's vacation of what's on the current site. So I would I would assume then that staff is that other property owner is being consulted about that. I I don't know. I'm not a zoning person. I don't know. Uh there's um outreach whenever we do any of these site plan applications. There will be outreach on this. So yeah. Okay. I I that was part one of my questions. So uh I think the adjacent property is batanological. Yes. Has that owner had uh voiced any opinions about this development or have you not staff? No, but you've reached out to that owner and that owner uh we have not yet. Um there is a certain um there's a 10day uh window before u the designated agent action. Um so I'll be noticing them actually tomorrow. That's on my list of to-dos. It was anyway even before you asked that question. I still have more. Okay. Is that okay? Yeah. All right. Um, so, uh, for Hold on, I lost I lost. So, I'm I'm 100% behind the AAB's recommendations. I think we do. And I I do I did read their frustrations in the process and the lack of detail that's part of this um, submission. And I don't know if it's actually a complete submission because I saw the application and it said, "Oh, it's there. It's there. It's there." And I couldn't find information. So, um um I was surprised to see that there were no buffers. Um, I'm I do appreciate

all the staff's uh in in agreement with all of staff's um comments so far with regards to buffers, with regards to the parking and really evaluating that, having the landscaping and the parking, the arborous comments on coverage and tree canopy um as well as um uh landscaping. Uh let's see. And then storm water calcs. I did have a question with regards to the post development and DA post uh what was it DA post routing. What are what's the difference between those two graphs? Unfortunately, I'm the wrong person to ask. Okay. No, there might be some one of the applicants. I'm trusting that that department of like public the DBW like storm water is on that because those calculations look a little bit like close and I would hate for redevelopment to really create a larger problem on that northwest property where the slope goes down and more runoff is created. So, um, I was looking at those graphs and I didn't quite understand the difference between the post I understand the difference between pre-development and post-development, but I don't understand what DA posting was because that seemed to tweak the graph just enough. Um, so I'm trusting that staff is got got that as well. Hilu Kel is the staff person. We have actually like several people that are looking um at storm water staff. It's a lot but but but sure would you like to give a little dissertation on that as you spent so much time on the pre and post scenario here. Sure. Sure. So if your question about if you can open sheet number 20 20 for now then we're going to move into 21.

So, I think you have it there. If you scroll up a little, Jack, it's that that's 20, I think. No, it's Yeah, it says 20 there. This is 19, I think. Yeah, this one. So, this is pre and posted. Yes. Okay. So the DA bre this is how much flow will be generated with the existing condition right now right and the post one if you go to the post down this is how much flow will be generated without the BMP if you go to the routing which is in the next page the routing after we implement the beam B the CN number which is the refer to the uh surface type will be reduced when we uh uh use this uh um new CN number uh that in out of the uh B&B the flow will be reduced to this amount. So this is uh this is what routing mean because we implemented the storm water management the CN which is the curve number for the surface soil will be reduced and based on that the flow will be reduced but wouldn't that be isn't that what postdevelopment is what are the BPMs that you're using to to make the changes in the in the flow it's it's again it's really hard to tell from the lack of detailed plans. What do you mean lack of details in the plan? Here is the number. You can see the flows. If you if you zoom if you can zoom into the big flow, you can compare the number. And if you can move into the next page,

but what is the what is the actual BPM that that you're using to mitigate the off flow? BMP. What is the BPM? Sorry. BMP. Are we using uh poor asphelt premium premium premium base? So is there an extent of the porous asphalt shown on the documents? It is. It is. Okay. If you go up to sheet number to um uh uh the site plan sheet number three, I think four or five something like this. See if I can go down. Down more. Yeah. This here. You see this hatch? So the hatch that is like the honeycomb hatch is Yes. This is the P. Yes. I just I missed that on a legend. I couldn't see that. Poor is concrete pavement. All right. Okay, thank you for explaining that. You're welcome. And and we apologize for the confusion. Um we can go a little further and designate these uh differences so that a lay person may be able to understand or try to follow what we're trying to communicate with the plan. We understand that there are some uh deficiencies and when we did the design and submitted we found out that the soil itself had some issues. So we were going to make a modification uh to the storm water analysis and we mentioned that to Jeff. So we're in the midst of doing that now. So there will be a modification to that and hopefully that will make it a little more simplistic and easier. Let me ask you a question. Have you seen that sheet?

Say that again for sure. I'm asking her if she had seen that sheet. I've got I've got the packet. Yes. I just I have it. It's already called out over there. Bor's concrete pavement. Thank you. Y welcome. I think it's it's it's especially important to make it clear what your project is about. um you have to assume that somebody else doesn't understand your project when you're creating the drawings. So I do this for a living. I I distill large sets of documents for very large projects. So in in not a lot of time because that's I I have to pull information out of them. This was very challenging for the scale of project that it is. Um, thank you. Thank you for that uh information and and thank you for the recommendation. We will utilize it. Um, we we kind of pride ourselves on putting together drawings that communicate well and uh the mere fact that this did not communicate well to you uh is a problem uh for us. So, we'll fix that. Thank you. Um so also include um some floor plans for some uh understanding of the overall occupancy and square footage. Um and I do support uh the expression of some kind of mural or something on that large expansive empty um elevation. It's very hard to understand what's going on there. I see lines on it. It looks like those are the demarcation of the floors um across the elevation. So it's I I don't think there's any articulation of the materials there. So I think it's important to pay some attention to that especially since that will be highly visible um for the pedestrian environment as well. And we're of course

wanting to create a unique sense of place in the little city um in our comprehensive plan. So, I think it's really important um that that we pay some attention to that detail and that level of detail. Um especially when we're reviewing the site plan. Um yes, and and that information was communicated to us last week and we have already begun the following day on making those adjustments with the architect uh based on those recommendations from last week. Great. Thank you. You're welcome. Um, one other question I did have which was with regards to again to the floor plans and the roof plan. Um, it seems like there's an opportunity. Is that roof occupiable? Is there an opportunity for a green roof to mitigate some of the storm water and uh issues that that you know you're very tight on your calculations but also to reduce the heat island effect of this property as well. Yeah, that was uh that same question was uh put out to the architect and we are exploring that and that will be something that uh could help in the overall scheme of things and so uh pretty exciting to be able to have something like that too. Okay, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Uh Mr. Stevens. Okay. Um, I'll start out with a couple of highlevel observations. First of all, um, I mean, this is a a local business that wants to expand and stay in the city. So, from that perspective, that's that's a good thing. So, uh, you know, I think we're kind of glad to see that. Um, unfortunately, with this property and trying to to maximize its use, you get this very long, narrow building. It's kind of a shotgun uh type of a of a of a, you know, appearance. and uh you

know with the blank wall on the one side and uh just windows on the other it just it's it'd be a lot of uh reaction to a building like this I think in the city but but I understand that's the lot the lot is a long narrow lot and um there's no requirement for setback on the sides and I think it's 20 ft for both the front setback and the rear setback and you've kind of maxed out what you can do to do that. So that's what we get. You know, this type of a of a building. So is it good overall? I think, you know, I would hope that the city could uh get a better result, but these lots are what they are. So uh you know, it's it's hard to uh to overcome that. Um couple of things. Are is are there any uh bike racks that are planned for the site? Uh yes, they are. and that will be put into the uh uh TDM narrative that we'll be putting together. And to your point on the blank wall, I wanted to regress a little back to to that. We are looking at the art society to try to get an artist uh to do something with that because we too do not want that to be just a blank wall. And that was brought out last week, right, in the architectural review meeting as well. Yeah, I heard the AAB uh comments. So, you know, that that's good. Um, let's see. I'm just wondering, Mr. Holler, have you mentioned CPACE to them as a as an option, something to be aware of at least? It just, you know, probably as a routine matter just to let people know that, hey, we now have this capability. CPACE if they are thinking of financing, you know, borrowing money to to uh to finance this, CPACE could uh could help them. Okay. Um, I did not mention that. No. Yeah. Um, okay. So, I mentioned bike racks. Uh, couple of things that I

routinely mention to, uh, new developments here in the city is to encourage the developers to pre-wire the buildings for EV chargers. So, I'm hoping that some of the spaces that you're putting in will come equipped with uh with electric vehicle charging uh u fixtures. Yes. Um and any other kind of energy efficiency upgrade be beyond the uh building code, you know, would certainly be appreciated as well. Um I I guess I tend not to have as much of of an issue with the parking reduction that they're asking for. It's first of all, 31 is like I said, it's kind of an arbitrary number. And if they've done studies that show that um 24 will accommodate their expected client base um I mean that's probably as good as as any information that we usually get uh in trying to decide what's the appropriate number of spaces. Um there's a little bit of uncertainty because as I understand it, you you're taking the existing business and then you're adding to it uh another location, the business from another location. So that, you know, creates some uncertainty. Uh I noticed there was a very large uh London plane tree right at the front. I'm just wondering since uh there is that 20 foot setback, do you know are there plans to uh keep that tree as maybe it's even in the city's rightway? I don't know. We would love to keep that tree. We're going to try everything in our power to keep it however we need to do it, whether it be any adjustments or uh whatever else. But uh we are looking closely at that. That was something that has been brought up uh more than three

four times. So So yes. Yeah. Well, it's it's in good shape. Yes. And you know, we don't have that many uh street trees along that part of Broad Street that are in good shape and that one is. So I know you don't want to have a tree in front of your entrance. I you know that's understandable. But hopefully it's back far enough that uh and the I noticed that the the trunk on that tree is fairly high. So it does still give, you know, a lot of visibility. So you know, I'll put my vote in for I hope you can uh save it. Um let's see if I had any other comments at this stage. you know, it just is going to be a challenge for staff because it seems like there's so many, you know, kind of shortfalls uh from the code that, you know, there's almost a complete brand new submission would have to be uh would be made. So, uh and in turn, I think that makes it challenging for us to to have a lot of comments at this at this stage without seeing what that new um you know, filing will be. I guess that's u that's all I have at this point. I accept that I will also agree uh that a lot of the comments that were made by the architectural advisory board seem to be good ideas to try to make the building a bit more attractive given the dimensions that it has. So thank you. Yes. Thank you too for your comments. Yeah, please go ahead. Um, Jeff, have you has anybody reached So, I know Econise may or may not be actually doing the thing that they already came here with. Do you know if there's been any other outreach about the other two buildings that are in between where this building would be and econ?

Uh, not to my knowledge. Um I I did just wanted to say too is that the um when the architect was on with us at the AAB meeting last week and he did mention um that part of the reason that that um that the condition for that facade um is to anticipate um some type of future redevelopment there in those other parcels. Um I don't know um you know the conversations with the owner. I don't I don't know if they if they know something we don't. But um that was the intent on that wall that way was to anticipate redevelopment of those. Yeah. I think there's like an opportunity for us to really figure out how to make that all work together instead of four um you called them bullet bullet buildings. Shotgun shotgun buildings. Um instead of having four just very long buildings in a row there next to a large apartment building next to like like a way to make that more holistic. Um I know I I know we are discussing the site plan right now like about this building and before we get into like posts site plan conversations about what the look and feel of the outside of the building should be I think there's I think it would be helpful and from a false church perspective if we stopped and looked at like is there a way to combine properties here uh to make that make it make a more holistic more effective building reducing curb cuts making it more pedestrian friendly uh biker friendly things like that I that really does feel like an an opportunity in this conversation. Did you want to respond to that, Mr. Duncan? Go ahead. I want to say I'm in 100% agreement with that statement and it's the same question that I asked the econ folks when we gave approval to their project and the answer from the owner was that's just not part of our deal. You know, we're not looking into real estate uh to that degree. But I guess I would uh like

to hear what the owner thinks about just the concept of a building that has some elements that are a little more uh what we're aiming for than the garage entrance being on the side of the building. Is the is the pedestrian entry to the building designed to be on Broad Street or am I going to get into the dental office by going down the parking alley under the building and then taking an elevator up from the middle of the building? No, it is the entrance has to be from Broad Street. Um I'm now we're not the owners. I'm I'm conflating I'm conflating personalities, but you know. Yeah. Yes. But uh they are all on board on presenting something that could be appealing and in line with the small area plan and a product that everyone can point to as an example. So they want to do a great job uh with this so that the board can be happy. Uh the architectural review um board can also be happy. The planning commission everyone can be happy in this case. uh they want to try their best to supply all needs uh and we want to help them to that end and we make strong recommendations to them and they listen to those recommendations. So Okay. Well, that's good. I I guess uh go find a couple of comparables in the city that uh along Park Avenue, for instance, there's a couple of buildings that have the sort of concept that you're presenting here. shotgun parking and drive-thru on the right side, you know, entrance on the left third that look

okay. They're not my idea of a cup of tea, but they're okay. And I think we'd like to see something like that on Broad Street to try to continue the notion of activating the storefronts all along Broad Street, at least with entrances, if not uh not businesses. One housekeeping thing, uh, Chaff, the residential property behind all of this, they're included in the notification, I assume, even though it's residential, not on Broad Street. Everything within 200 ft of the site gets noticed. Okay. So, just let's make sure that the occupant of uh the property up behind is uh is included. some somebody make that their their job so that we don't surprise them because the questions that were raised about storm water runoff I think are significant enough that if I owned that property I would be interested in you know making sure that whatever was going in on Broad Street was capturing as much of the water before it got to my house than you know might might otherwise be the case. Um, I think the one thing uh out of the many pages of staff comments which were excellent and I went through them and the only thing I would call special attention to would be the sanitary sewer line. There was a flag put up that noted that the current use of the uh property, the thousand square foot dental practice uh has a certain amount of uh sanitary outflow and a project that's substantially bigger. Is the piping and sanitary sewer structure going to have to be replaced from scratch or can it

somehow be reused and adapted? My I don't know hunch would be that it would need to be re started from fresh is that is that your impression? Uh we were thinking that we would calculate the effluent that would come off of the building uh which would include the necessary chairs and the regular restrooms whatever that effluent amount is gallons uh per minute. Uh we would make sure that it would not uh tax the existing uh sanitary sewer line. So uh that's something we have not done yet but we need to do. Okay. Yeah. has falls into the category of things that the staff identified that you're still working on. Um I I also agree with what I heard Jeff say about the staff's impression that there's this this is not going to be the last and final. There's a another uh at least another goround on this. As I understand our process now though, we won't get another look at it. This is our one shot to communicate to the designated agent. Am I right about that? Or if they resubmit, does the clock start again? And do we get another chance to go into some of the details? Uh, it's difficult because any resubmission um is on a 30-day clock as opposed to 40. Yeah. Um, but I think, you know, there's going to be um there's going to be an effort by staff uh to fit in another uh meeting with you all if if time permits. Um especially if there's large changes to what you saw this time. Um and and the same thing goes uh what I said to the AAB as well. Um if there's if there's a lot of changes to the facades um then we'll try to get them back time permitted. Well, I would appreciate that. I'm glad that I asked

if it's a possibility. At least I think some of us would like to take a another look at some of the details that are going to be filled out between now and the next round. Okay. Thank you. The the only thing I would also The only thing I would also mention too is on that 30-day resubmission, um because it's so tight, even tighter than the 40-day that we're on now, um I can't guarantee that you're going to have staff comments at that time. Staff may still be reviewing it. Um we give staff two weeks um for this round. They just so happen to finish Monday. Asking what I think is a dumb question. Is that 30 business days or 30 calendar days? 30 calendar days. Yep. Yeah, that's fine. Go ahead. And so the plan that's before you, that particular plan uh has been improved since then that which we have internally and we will even improve it further based upon the information that we receive tonight. So you will have a uh significant uh plan that I hope that will be more clear and easier uh communicated so that it could be understood. Thank you. Uh Mr. Kinsky, go ahead. Uh so just to clarify, the current uh submission says that final action will be May 5th, but that's not going to happen at this point. um that would be when the designated agent would make his decision, but that's not going to happen. What will happen is there will be a resubmission and whenever that resubmission happens, there's 30 days from that resubmission. Is that correct? Uh no, sir. So, um the the designated agent has to make either an approval or a denial by the 5th. So, there will be an action at least by the 5th. Um, typically we haven't actually denied uh

a lot of projects in the past. Um, but in this case, uh, if it's not ready to go by 40 days, meaning it's addressed all the comments, then they will be denied. Um, and then a resubmission of the same um the same project would come back. There'd be a new there'd be a resubmission fee and then that would be on a 30-day clock because it's a resubmitt, not a new application. And then also there is a um there is uh a limit to what staff is able to comment on um on that resubmitt. Um staff uh is not allowed to comment uh new um uh new things on a new um on a new resubmitt. Um so when we when we do this first round, we really want to make sure that we get it right the first time. So, if the applicant can put in can resolve all of these issues by May 5th, then the designated agent could in fact approve it by May 5th. If not, he would reject it and then it would start once once the new application comes in, it would start a new 30-day yes clock. I'm sorry. Go ahead. So, yes. So, we're we're learning as staff too um how this 40-day window goes. Um and you'll remember re very recently we just had something on 258 North Washington Street. Um so uh we had urged them to um come up with a resubmitt like like as you mentioned before uh the designated agent date. Um what had happened in that case was that they did resubmit um following your comments um following you know staff comments. uh we got that resubmitt about 10 days before the designated agent date staff that is not enough time for them to review the the re-review the

materials uh before that date. Um and because of that there was some confusion then as to what set now are we approving? Are we approving the first one that came through? Are we are we approving a um revised set? So my suggestion going in the in the for the future would be that we when when comments are this lengthy u as they often are for a first submitt. They almost always are. Uh we're not going to suggest that an applicant try to fit in a resubmitt before the before the the date. It just it's not feasible. Uh we want their second try to be the right one. Um, so, uh, I would say that in the case of a site plan that only has maybe labeling errors or small things, um, then I think it's possible that staff can take a look and say, "Yep, that stuff was taken care of, and we can get it in before, you know, the designated agent action." Um, but when, uh, the comments are are like this, I don't I don't think that, um, a resubmitt uh, a quick resubmitt is is advised. No. And and uh with regard to your process, I mean I I'm pretty I understand you're trying to fix an airplane while you're flying it and the process uh you're you're doing a pretty incredible job keeping the process going. All right. Any other thoughts? I have a few. Um well, my colleagues have already covered a lot of the ground that I wanted to ask about. So, thank you all for your careful reading. Um, I did want to ask about one thing that hasn't come up. That's water quality. So, I understand I think the applicant is proposing purchasing storm water nutrient um credits offset storm water offset nutrient offset credits instead of treating on site. Is that correct? And I guess I'm wondering does the city have a

preference on that? I would imagine we would prefer that people treat on site to improve the water quality that our our neighbors are maybe experiencing or this that you know is traveling into our streams. So, um but we don't have any sort of policy or preference stated. Uh not that I know of. It's either or. Okay. It might be something that maybe we should think about or talk about as a as a community. Um okay. Yeah, I was wondering about that. Uh, and then how do we confirm that they actually are purchasing these offset credits before the project is approved? Uh, we do ask for um we have a receipt or something like that. Okay. Um, uh, I would agree with my I actually sent an email to uh, Mr. Matusk and uh, Mr. Trainer asking where the staff report was for this because I had a very hard time understanding it. Tip for my fellow commissioners. I don't know how much any of you are using AI, but I just dropped the PDF for the plan into Claude and it it told me lots of things about what was being proposed and some issues that maybe we should think about as a commission. So, pro tip, next time just there's no if you're just trying to figure out what's happening, drop it in the cloud. You have to trust but verify. Um, but yeah. Uh, so that's one way, but I I'm curious uh why I know we have this new process. So, are can we expect as a commission that there will not be staff reports for these kinds of quick turn 40-day clock projects or is there even like a summary like this is a dental office would have been helpful um because the use wasn't listed in the site plan. So, Sure. Yeah. Um, so, uh, we are no longer doing the the staff reports kind of as you have come to know them, um, for these types of projects, but the letter to the applicant, um, that's attached to the comments, um, that is like the same format.

Um, so that's what we've been using as your staff report. Okay. Yeah. And the letter was helpful. I think you heard a few folks here tonight talk about how it was helpful. Um, I guess yeah, as a as a lay person, um, I don't do this for a living, like Miss Freedellander, like, and she had trouble figuring it out, like I appreciate that kind of overview of this is what the project is. Uh, and maybe that's just some feedback I'll I'll share with our planning director. Um, understand that staff may not have the capacity to do that and, you know, these these timelines are tight, but I think it's really difficult for us to engage um, with the project. Um and then I also maybe also from that perspective I could see in the sort of timeline um uh the dates you know with that you all have been talking about this since November and there were some pre meetings and so I'm assuming that there's a lot of feedback and back and forth before the even that first submission is made and I I expect that your goal is to have help set the applicant up for success when that first so do you feels like we didn't meet that goal this time no criticism of staff of course, but just like what are we doing with under with this new process for as long as we have it to like help set applicants up for a better success the first time? Yeah, the um we've always uh encouraged folks um you know to have a pre-application meeting. Um but definitely given the 40-day review window, what we we really start to push it a lot more and even include it as part of our process for a site plan now. Um, and and I think a lot of those um have evolved a little bit where, you know, it used to just kind of be planning uh or maybe even economic development that met with an an owner, an applicant. Um, now we've started looping in uh members of public works of building safety, really our whole review staff whenever possible. Um, it is a large group, you know, to to sometimes get in a room together,

coordinate. Yeah. And so, um, you know, and and and what the applicant has at the time of that pre-application varies. Uh, we've had some people who are ready to walk through the door, um, and and and apply. Um, we've also had some pretty early on conceptual drawings. So, it's very difficult um to say, you know, what we're going to do every single time. Um but you know we are you know trying to our best to kind of walk through the process with the applicant what we're looking for give early concerns um if we have them if we can possibly know them. Um but it's it's difficult. Yeah. Did you have a an Well, yeah. The one thing I was listening to the AAB committee which was actually kind of helpful because I guess they had successfully gotten some information before they started their discussion because they seemed to know the kind of a little bit about the building you know what was what was happening and the fact that it was a dental building and so forth. Um, so you know that was good, but the architect during that meeting said he had 2 hours of advanced notice to be able to do um, you know, various illustrations. And I thought that was odd, you know, that we would only provide, you know, such a short amount of time. Um, I all I can say is that I I email and keep a prize to all the people who are on the applicant um, application form. um if they don't um tell their architect or they don't tell their engineer um where to be and when, I I can't. Right. I'm sorry. Got it. I I will I will add to that as well. Uh the architect was emailed immediately the information, but the email address that we had for him was no longer working. So, we were wondering why we were not getting any feedback. So, we had to call him when it got critical for the meeting time. And that's when we found out that we needed to use a

different email address, which we did. And that's why he had two hours. That can happen as well. Yep. Um, okay. So, I I do have a couple comments like I know I know my my my colleagues are are would prefer to sort of consolidate these lots. Um, but I guess I'm I'm thinking about like these this doesn't require any side setbacks. We're anticipating a party wall. you know, the some of the most beloved uh buildings are those like one and 200 block of Broad Street where you have these like long shotgun buildings and there is a lot of variety. They're very narrow. Um so, you know, no guarantees that like these other parcels will redevelop in that same way. But, um I do I do like the fact like Mr. Stevens that we have a business in the city who's reinvesting in their property. um and in their business um and you know is anticipating similar development down the line. So for me like I you know I know there's no guarantees but and maybe we will be looking at hopefully a very lovely mural for as long as it takes for those other parcels to redevelop. Um but yeah, so I'm I'm actually kind of okay with this long shotgun. It just see it feels like more traditional urbanism to me. It's just kind of standing on its own. Um, one like for me though, like the the fact that the, you know, that we're trying to get the parking into this like nice traditional urbanist building really detracts from the sort of street level activation of this parcel. So, there's really nothing happening for somebody, you know, walking or driving by except for the um the front entrance on the right side. I I think that's in it's in the curtain wall, right? That's where the entrance is beneath the 815. Yeah, it's hard to tell on the the

drawings that the architect did in two hours. Um uh but yeah, but then the rest of it is just really car access. So I think that's, you know, from a planning commission perspective, that's un unfortunate. Um but I I don't know how else you would this with such a narrow site, how else you would accommodate parking. Um so just an observation from me, not a request. Um, and Mr. Stevens mentioned the bike facilities. Do you know where you might anticipate placing those? Would they be um sort of out at the street level or would they be um within the covered parking area beneath the building? We have not looked at that yet, but we would welcome a recommendation. I would think maybe closer to the street level, but uh again that's open uh for recommendation. Yeah, I think it it should be convenient close to the entrance either uh either on is you know on like right off of the street there or in one of in a very uh I don't even know where you would place it within the garage cuz all of the where you have all the parking spots. I think that's probably the only place what I would not want to see would be parking sort of stuffed in the very back of the lot. So you the cyclist would have to ride through um the parking area to the rear um for safety reasons. Yeah. Yep. And and you know just accessibility reasons. Uh okay. And then I wanted to ask I couldn't tell from the staff comments, but it sounds like we're not meeting the um new um tree canopy requirements. Is that correct? Not yet. No, I don't I don't think we are now. Okay. So yeah. So that's this might have been uh pre pre Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that might have some significant impacts on the design. Um if you need to to get 10% tree canopy in here. Um and then as far as the sort of

like landscape buffer, there would be a buffer potentially in the rear of the property, but if we aren't requiring setbacks on the side, there would be no side buffer required, right? It's just the rear. It would just be the rear. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And that is not currently provided either. Uh I didn't see a landscape plan in here, but if I missed it, there is a landscape plan. I think it's on the very one of the very last two pages. The last two pages. Yes. Ah, okay. I did see these trees. Uh okay. So, I see a few trees back there. It's the last one. Yeah. Yeah. Right there. and in the front. Okay. All right. Well, I I know the arborist noted that. So, um I think he is on it. I just wanted to understand what the requirements are. So, the buffer requirement is in the rear only of the lot. Okay. Okay. Uh all right. Uh, I guess the other thing I would hope we could ask for would just be some additional information on the materials, the building materials. I didn't I didn't Is that was that included in any part of the plan? Um, there there are um written materials on it on the u but no uh you know sort of like visual representation of like this color brick or Yeah. No, it's so AB also ask for that. Yeah. So, more more more detail on the materials that we anticipate using. Um, I do like the um the what is it called? The glass wall. The um curtain wall. Yeah, it's kind of cool. Kind of 70s. Awesome.

Uh okay. Uh, and I guess my other recommendation would be um, you know, as you're considering the mural, Fure City has a um, a public art advisory board and they might be able to make some recommendations. Uh, I I've captured a pretty long list of um, recommendations to the designated agent based on our discussion. Do you want me to read should I read that back? Uh, do we need to do the do we need to do the comments tonight or just I think we that's how we've been that's within our practice, Jack. Is that right? Are there any other comments or suggestions, questions for the applicant? Yep. Just a just a quick comment. I mean, the the shape and the scale of this is very similar to the meeting house and Godfree and that when I first saw that it's wider though has more room. It has a little bit more room to squeeze that driveway to the back to get that parking. But it might be worth taking a look at that because I think that's a pretty successful redevelopment of an existing much more preferred than the parking over what do they call that? Um the overhang the hotel. No overhang or sorry. No, that style where you put your parking in the bottom level of the building. It's like common in like beach communities or something. What's that? I don't know what it's called. like tartar. Tarters mentioned it before. He doesn't like it. I just can't remember the term. Yeah, I'm learning Tarter's feet. Yeah, I don't I don't like it either from a from a sort of planning like creating a a space that people want to spend time in. Um, you know, would you give us an address of the meeting house? It's two doors down, I think, from you just on the other side of Godfree Godfree Bakery of Broadmont. Okay. Yeah. And it was just recently renovated. It's a It's a hotel which is the meeting house and Godfree is the

bakery and um yeah across the street from Solos or the Solus. Yeah. Mhm. Yep. Yep. Thank you. Sure. Um okay. Should I read back the list that I have here? Maybe y'all can tell me what I missed. I was trying to take notes as everybody was talking. Uh are you ready, Jack? Okay. So, how are we setting this up? By making its advisory planning comm has the following recommendations, comments. Um, maybe we'll just Should we just go by topic first? Sure. Just want to get the list out there and then refine the language after that. Yeah, that's fine. So, uh, so I I said like we'd like to request a table with the current parking and utilization to determine if the proposed parking is sufficient for the expanded use of the dental office. That's what I heard from Mr. Duncan. And just basic occupancy as well and square footage would be helpful, right? I think it was the Yeah, the total number of chairs. Uh yeah, include floor plans uh floor plans and total number of chairs to understand usage or you could figure that out on the floor plan. Yeah, I think the floor floor plan probably gives us enough and but it's using chairs as a proxy for Okay, so floor plans to understand uh usage uh intended usage or um something like that or just floor plans. It's fine. Okay, sorry. Uh let's see. I had the we'd like to the mural. We'd like to request a mural on the blank wall, the blank future party wall on the northwest elevation.

Uh we need to designate a location for bicycle parking and ensure it is easily accessible. uh uh more detail on building materials. Uh there was a recommendation for or a question about whether a green roof could be considered to mitigate heat. Um and then we need to confirm the applicant is meeting tree canopy requirements and uh landscape buffer and parking lot landscaping requirements. Uh, anything else? What else? What pre-wire for some EV charging stations? Recom I should start that out by saying recommend. Yeah, these are recommendations. I think it's fine. They're going to the designated agent anyway, not the not the for his consideration. Anything else that Sure. I in um more detailed building materials, I'd like to say um building elevations and renderings as well with color so that we can kind of see what what it what those materials are intended to be. Mhm. Um and how they fit with the environment. Um and addressing I would say storm water addressing all the storm water sanitary and um you know runoff and water quality concerns. Yeah. I mean, buildings larger than this, but still this is a building of pretty good size have had

underground capture basins to help with storm water, peak peak storm water, and I don't think that's part of the plan for this one. So the approach of having porous concrete is we'd like to know more about how that's really going to work. Mhm. And maybe an example of where it's used to give us confidence that it can work. Sorry, I missed that first part. Mr. Duncan, what was the first part? How would you summarize? Basically what Miss Freellander said, just listen to her. Storm water management, storm, you know, storm water and affluent management. Do we need a comma after storm water? Storm water, comma, sewer, and storm water. Yeah, storm water management. And you're good. Storm water management and quality, right? Yeah. Um, can we add to something about um the activation of the pedestrian streetscape? Yeah. A little bit. Thank you. Um, anything else? Notification. So, they notify all the surrounding, anybody that abuts the property. So, the rear Yeah. anyone in 200 ft. in 200 ft in any direction 360° like yeah I think we can trust staff on that you can go knock on their door uh okay uh for the green roof recommendation who

whose recommendation was that or question yours do you want to flush that one out a little bit uh where is it yeah recommend a green roof to I think it was more as a mitigational measure to mitigate storm water issues, right? And also to mitigate a heat island effect, right? Like you're killing two birds with one stone. Green roof to mitigate storm water. Is it a recommendation to include to consider? Yeah. To include or consider. Yeah. to mitigate the storm water and heat island. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Zang. Thank you. One more thing, Madam Chair, if I may. Uh, please could you come to the microphone? Yeah. One more issue I think is very one more issue is very important you during the discussion which I heard and and taken note is about a share access eastman actually uh under the city subdivision code subdivision regulation uh all the eastman had to show on the final plat that's the reason we have that you know case before this we had to change the final plat because of the eastman changes mhm And then in this case I heard applicant mention they want to vacate the share eastman. I think they didn't have any sub I mean subdivision application and then they cannot do that. So uh they had to tell us what's the east they're going to do with the eastment share eastment because initially share with the adjacent property. Now they if they want to vacate it they had to have the approval from the planning commission. Okay. Thank you. Uh, so let's see where where should we

add that? Thank you for the reminder, Mr. Zang. Uh, and just to be clear, we were only talking about the vacation on the subject property, not the other uh properties. Yes. And then this had to be validated with the original share access. You can't just like uh I mean on one side you want to vacate Europe but we had to look into the why where why we have that shared access easement established in the first place. Correct. Correct. Uh so so maybe is it um applicants request to vacate shared easement would require subdivision amendment approval? Yeah, a subdivision approval. Research as to how that came about is one. Yeah. Applicants request for vacation of access easement needs to be examined. I do I do Yeah. Like I'd like to work the word subdivision in there if that is a potential because that's a bigger um uh applicant's request for vacation of e access easement. that require the sub may require subdivision approval. Yes. Yeah. Okay. That implies it will we will need some research. Yes, that's correct. All right. Um Okay. So again, these are our recommendations to the designated agent Matt Matis who's the planning uh director in Foster City. Uh anything else that we missed? I just want to make sure kind of all the the language um because that's

ultimately what you'll be voting to send to the designated agent is the language. I think maybe mural on party wall northwest elevation is essential. C can we add that um to investigate public art or local artists or you know Yeah. What's the commission? Uh maybe we can you know humanity. Yeah. Encourage encourage. Yeah. including mural on party wall northwest elevation in consultation with um what is it the uh arts and humanities council with the arts and humanities council. Yes. And you'll be happy to know that we've already started that. Uh excellent. Thank you. Yeah. Godfree has a mural too by the way if you go check out that building. They did install one because they are a very long narrow building and they had a very big blank wall. Actually about half the size of yours vertically I think. Well, maybe not. How many stories is this? No. Yeah, a couple stories. This one needs a a person with a big row of teeth. Yeah. Well, right. I don't know. That might be getting into our sign ordinance territory. Just him. Just kidding. Brilliant idea. I do like the biconetic uh mural, though. So, yeah. Uh okay, probably a grammar issue here. But uh on the next page going down uh just since these are recommendations just instead of saying recommendation to just say consider including Yeah. Okay. It's a pretty uh So madam chair, could I ask one more question? Sure. So, what do we do tonight when I go home and somebody asks? Uh, I'm saying that we took as deep a dive as time permits into this application for a new building

and have a number of bulleted recommendations to the designated agent. Uh I also heard I think everyone don't let me speak for you but say that we concur with staff's current assessment that as the application is before us now it is not ready for final and that a resubmitt would be expected. Is that an accurate way to portray what we've done tonight? I would agree with that. I think that's especially with the staff comment letter and all the extensive uh if that can be memorialized just to make um if I can if I can uh suggest something usually what um what we do with the AAB at least um is we say that uh the AAB recommends a project with these comments or doesn't recommend with these comments. So yeah, that's what I don't want that's what I don't want to do. I I agree. You're right. And that's why I brought it up because the when I read the AAB minutes, I thought, "Oh, AB thinks it's okay." Yeah. And that's I don't know that we know enough about it at this point to recommend it or not. Your scope is much smaller than yours. Yeah, exactly. No, I understand what they did was right for them, but based on what the chair just said. I at least would not be able to vote to approve the concept or whatever we call were addressed. Um, if all these things were addressed, uh, maybe then, you know, it would be ready to ready to bake. I'm I'm just suggesting that that language somehow be included in the documents that we have. Could you scroll up, Mr. Trainer? Um, uh, what's the what's the top of this document?

Discuss several topics. Okay. You're going to fill in the topics, right, Mr. Trainer? Okay. Um, so what is the motion? I think I think there it's at the bottom, but um it's really the motion is just about sending the comments and recommendations to the designated agent. That's all the motion does. So, but I like Mr. Duncan's like of like the planning commission's general sense was that this project was not ready for approval. Like capturing that explicitly, maybe even as like a separate I mean this document is malleable. Can we scroll back up? We need uh can we do something like we support the need to um identif you know to fulfill the shortcomings that the staff has identified. Maybe better words than that but in other words supporting staff uh staff's u observation that there's a lot of things yet to be done. Mhm. At the top of all our list of recommendations, that's kind of like the part of to our recommendations like that we agree with staff's process and that this is not quite ready for approval as a project but with these recommendations a resubmitt. Yeah. Uh Mr. Zagnes. Madam Chair. Yes. Thank you. If I may, I would suggest ch just go up. Uh there's the this paragraph is list will be listing the topics. Basically this paragraph will will be filled out by Jack according to topic we have. At the very end that paragraph we can say something like uh due to lack of uh sufficient information and uh uh the planning commission believe a resubmitt is necessary. Mhm. In order to have a complete review something like that.

Yeah. and after the topics and then at the same time you can after that you can have this recommendation as well. Yeah, that's the exact placement I was thinking of Mr. Zang. So thank you. This Yeah, this part acts as like a mini like a bridged version of the meeting minutes. Okay. Even right so like even the meeting minutes will be a little more detailed but here we'll just capture the topics but I I think that's a great suggestion that this this could include that specific suggestion on on the So could we make that like a separate paragraph? from it. It wouldn't be part of that bullet, Jack, but it would be a new paragraph separate from the next one and it would say um Mr. Zang, you just had some really nice language. Can you uh remind us of the language that you just suggested? After that, uh not not the not a bullet, Jack, sorry, separate. It's a it's a new sentence started basically said the planning commission believe uh the current submitt does not have sufficient information for a complete review and they expecting the resubmitt in future and and then after that you you still have the issue and recommendations. How about that? So just getting back to this process issue, it may not be a resubmitt. In other words, if the applicant can provide all this information, all of these recommendations by May 5th, then it wouldn't be the resubmitt, right? Well, actually given the long list of the issue, they had to have the submission because this is not complete set. Basically, if you look at the issue, the bullet point we listed here, it's not a complete submission. So, the the city will likely reject this application and start the 30-day clock over. Yeah. By the May 5th,

with so many issues outstanding, I think most likely, I can't speak for the DA, but most likely will be rejected. They're pretty hard to approve it with a long list of of deficiencies. So yeah, given they asked for the waiver of parking without any TDM, you know, that's non-starter basically. So most likely. Okay. Yeah. Is that uh does that language jive with your intention, Mr. Duncan? Any any edits or Yeah, I think that's fine. I mean, you know, we we do encourage a resubmission. We're interested in the project. We know that a lot of work has already been done and we appreciate uh the applicant good faith effort has been made and will continue to be made on both sides to see if uh we can come to agreement. So I would keep it simple and just say we recommend a resubmission. Thank you. And um and maybe that's uh something that we can make part of the template going forward like just like what's the general de you know position of the commission on the project. It may be that we're in disagreement. I guess we can cross that bridge later but uh um can you scroll down? Sorry in our recommendations one last time. I just want to look through them one more time. The street activation one. How do we capture that activation of pedestrian streetscape? Um, I want to say something like Yeah, that's fine. Okay. All right. Any other uh we have a stray bullet at the end. Got a hand raised. Oh, uh, yes. Go ahead. Sorry. I just have a question for clarity with the green roof. Is the green roof a requirement or is it something that we

can consider looking at um to determine if it benefits the overall uh project or is this a requirement? It's it's a consider it's a consider and it's and these are our just to be clear these are our recommendations to the designated agent and he will decide which of these he carries forward to the applicant. Sure. Um but yeah, we're we're recommending because I know some sometimes structurally like th those can be quite heavy. Um yeah, it Yeah, it may or may not be possible, but they can make a big difference and they could really help with some of the um storm water uh issues that have already been identified. Yes, it's a lot of space. Absolutely. Absolutely. And thank you, Mr. Zang. Yes. Thank you, Henry and Jeff. Uh okay. If uh if there are no other changes, Jack is going to fill in the topics just based on this discussion. Uh would somebody like to make a motion uh to approve our recommendations? Yeah, I can do that. Um, I move that the planning commission provide the above recommendations comments regarding the 815 West Broad Street redevelopment site plan, munus number 2026-0147, and transmit them to the designated agent for consideration. Is there a second? Second, uh, Mr. Gavinsky with the second. Okay. And a roll call vote, please, when you're ready. Mr. Trainer. Okay. Mr. Pollinsky? Yes. Mr. Duncan? Yes. Mr. Stevens? Yes. Miss Freedellander? Yes. Mr. Kinsky? Yes. And Cher Kle? Yes. Thank you. The motion passes. Great. Thank you for coming out tonight

and thank you to the applicant team for um being with us. Appreciate it. Uh and thank you thank you chair for coming. Great. Thank you Mr. Holler and Mr. Zang. Appreciate you both. Okay. Uh so and then you'll fill in the motion pass 6. Okay. Thank you, Zach. Jack. Um, all right. So, that brings us to our information items. We're running a little ahead of schedule. Uh, any commissioner reports? I guess we could attended the EDA meeting last week and there was lots of discussion on Virginia Village and a lot of it had to do with some concerns within the EDA membership um over the viability of the project. I guess that would be my description. Maybe they would choose different words. uh they were also concerned about the size of the money that was being set aside to uh engage a consultant. Um so I mean it's it's mostly I think internal discussion within the EDA and I got the sense that it wasn't the end of the discussion. It was kind of midstream. So that's why I was a little hesitant to get into uh to very much detail but u anyway it was it was very entertaining discussion. So, maybe worth going back and listening to it if you have a chance. Yeah. Uh, Mr. Duncan, Midstream seems like an excellent way to put it, I would say. Uh, how many of us have been to one or the other of the Virginia Village public availability situations? Good. Okay. I haven't been yet. I haven't been.

Yeah. Uh, the most recent one was last night at Columbia Baptist. Uh interesting that as they have gone on they have collected more people in attendance which is a little unusual and good. Uh word seems to be getting out that this is a you know concept that we're seriously pursuing and that obviously nine quads of the 20 have already been put into city's hands and so um something has to happen. Uh since Matt is away tonight, I won't speak for him, but I thought he did a pretty good did a very good uh presentation last night to a crowd that included a number of people who reside in the Virginia Village Quads now, as well as other neighbors and others from the community. And the the takeaway that I uh took was uh that uh there's going to be some disruption and we might just as well be candid about that and upfront with the community of folks who live there that if we do nothing, the non city-owned quads are going to be redeveloped by their private owners. at whatever schedule suits the private owners with whatever buildings suit the private owner's pocketbooks and the current residents would be displaced if we pursued some sort of comprehensive redevelopment situation with all the four acres and all the quads. Uh it would be a heavy lift. It would take some number of years, but it would have the advantage of uh enabling the city to

help the current residents with relocation and uh assistance uh returning to the property once it's redeveloped. Thought that was an interesting point. Anyway, I would encourage folks to try to go to um one of the upcoming uh events. I I guess this is coming to us during the month of June. Jack, you would know what day we are formally supposed to hear about where things stand. Yep. Uh that's in the look ahead. One of the things I wanted to specifically call out. So we have So your next meeting actually is uh reserved um or at least is the only item on the agenda. We have it scheduled uh to actually be a joint work session with the housing commission. Uh we've reserved the Dogwood room for that. Typically these um meetings are sort of better suited for the Dogwood room than than chambers. Um and that meeting will largely be a kind of synthesis of the feedback that we heard across the four uh community meetings we held in March and April. Um uh and so that uh yeah, so that'll be again a summary, excuse me, of of that feedback heard. Um and then we'll have uh you know also summary of of the the current guidance that was presented to the community in the comprehensive plan and the small area plans and um just kind of uh introducing that to um both of um those boards you all and the housing commission. Um and then later in June is when uh we've mapped out returning with um actual draft um amendments to the small area plans reflecting both the feedback we heard um at those community meetings and from you all.

Thank you. Yeah, that's a good submission. So u as part of the meeting prep for that session, the document that we've been handed when we went to these sessions will be included in the packet and you can see sort of the four categories and what people have said and like like you said what degree of uh range of opinion or consensus uh has been reached and then we can roll up our sleeves and talk about it. The only additional fact that would be nice to know there was at the table that I was at last night at least there's a lot of interest in the Quinn building and how's the Quinn building coming and how tall is the Quinn building because of course it's going to be the cross street neighbor of you know whatever happens at Virginia Village even if nothing happens. Um, and so I know that's operating on its own separate track, but it would be useful, helpful if people could visualize what's going to be across the street from Virginia Village in the form of uh, one of your posters had the picture of the building as it's the Quinn building is supposed to look. Just make sure that's current and include that in circulation. Okay. Yeah, we can certainly do that. Um, I'll also point out that the Quinn renderings um are still on the project web page. So that so the project web page for that development still has a lot of good information including some renderings that actually show it to scale with Virginia Village. Um, go ahead. So there's some renderings that have like a Google Street view of Virginia Village with a two-scale um rendering of the Quinn development uh kind of superimposed on that. Yeah. Uh, so we can Yeah, we can definitely include those in in the materials. I forgot, but I'd also put a plug in for for that project page, too. That's helpful because several of the people that I spoke with at the meeting last night were not aware of just how much open space there was going to be at

Quins and that uh, you know, that was going to be available for people who live in Virginia Village to wander over and take advantage of it. Thank you, Jack. the fundamental uh I don't know discussion as it emerged at least from the meetings that I went to returns to what we've heard so many times before here over the years which is do we have dedicated uh housing for folks whose incomes range from 30 to 80 AMI uh as part of a comprehensive redevelopment or do we basically just take the buildings that are there now and spend the money uh to rehab them I suppose I mean most of them are 80 80 plus years old so there's a lot involved in that but there are those at the table that I sat at and others that I listen to who prefer that alternative so we need to have a community discussion about what's the best use of that 4 acres of land, which is a significant amount of land. And to what degree do we use that land to express our values? That affordable housing is a pressing need here. And it needs to be included uh in a discussion with height and traffic and all the other considerations that that come into play when we redevelop anything anywhere. Anyway, it's a good discussion to have. Thank you. Thank you, Bo. Quick question. Yeah, go ahead. Um, can are there going to be more of those public outreach meetings after after our next work session or like are there any more planned? I know there were two. So, we Yeah. So, we've had four actually

to date. Um we had two in March and that was uh labeled as a you know visioning exercise about you know kind of pie in the sky uh you know what what do you kind of see for this site obviously with you know the some some history on how the city's um posture has been the last couple years and in acquiring the properties for you know the purpose of expanding and redeveloping uh new affordable housing there. Um and then the two April meetings that we had um yesterday and last Saturday uh were you know this is what we heard or what we think we heard um and that those were broken up into categories on things about urban design and neighborhood compatibility um open space and accessibility different uses um and then uh housing and density. So, so we had we had the feedback broken down into those four kind of themes and we had um again just kind of a summary of based on the notes that we all took um that were facilitating those conversations compiled them uh and that's how we kind of presented the feedback saying this is what we thought we heard you know how does that look and sound to you and and so we had a lot of um as Mr. Duncan pointed out, especially yesterday's last night's meeting, we had a lot of new participants and so there was a lot of uh initial reaction, which was fine, which is great. Um I think we've we've continued to uh reach people as outreach has has continued. Um and so that's that's how those those two those four meetings were conducted. We have um those so those four were with the general public. We had back in February an initial outreach session to Virginia Village residents specifically. Um and we have another one that we're scheduling for either next week or the

week after that to catch up specifically uh with Virginia Village residents. So that'll be um not not public, you know, accessible to to the larger public, but a more targeted approach. Um, we also went to a brunch session with um some um uh Winter Hill residents. They have a standing kind of brunch uh meeting in their clubhouse that we attended and uh that was a lot of fun. Um so we've had several uh public outreach moments. So that we're kind of moving now into the board and commission's phase. Um and that's specifically with the small area plans. Um, following that, you know, recognize we'll need to identify any zoning amendments that may need to happen to actualize and realize the the feedback that we got and amendments to those plans. That'll be a future step. But as but as far as the small area plan amendments go, um, we're moving into that board and commission public meeting phase. Okay. No, thank you. And I I apologize. I wasn't able to make either of those and I must have slipped past me those other two that you were talking about. So, I do appreciate that. So, um I'm looking forward to more. Thank you. Thanks. Uh Mr. Trainer, I know we that summary of what we heard will be included in the work session items, but could you share that with commission with the rest of the commissioners because it sounds like two folks I can see they have the materials, but the rest of us don't who weren't able to attend. Could you share that just as an email out to the commission? The materials. Mhm. Sure. That summary that you were referencing. Yes. Yeah. Um Okay. Uh, and I actually have one I don't know if it's a request or maybe it's a question, but um wondering I don't the mention of 258 North Washington made me wonder if there's a way that uh you know if projects are changing or like is there a

way that the commission can kind of be apprised of um how things are proceeding in this new world because that's been denied, right? Yeah, I I T-58 was denied. I don't know for certain. I I actually don't want to speculate because I don't know for certain. Yeah. And they submitted some new uh elevations. I think they shared them with the uh AAB. So, it'd be good if if those could be Yeah. shared with uh with us as well. I know Jeff was just talking about there was some confusion about how to handle a resubmission, right? Um, so I I can check on the status of both or that second submission and um, yeah, and then just send I'm not sure what our protocol should be for kind of keeping the commission in the loop as things move along. Not not all the way through, but um, I don't know headlines. Yeah. I mean, maybe maybe even um I'd like to know, you know, we we are giving these recommendations to the designated agent. if he's making approval, if he's approving, like which of our recommendations is he um accepting or taking, you know, forward to the applicant and and which is he not. Um I think it would help us make better recommendations to him. Um or and maybe understanding a little bit of the rationale for what he maybe does or or doesn't bring forward. So yeah, just closing the loop a little bit on some of these projects because in pre previously like when we approved the site plan that was it and that was then we went and got built and now we're giving these recommendations but then we don't really hear anything. Um so that's that's really what I'm some in some way where it's not a ton of work for staff ideally. Uh any other requests? Just one other thing to the look ahead when the general assembly is finally finished for the year. Do remember to give us a briefing uh on uh whatever

housing measures they settled on and how that might affect the city. Is that something that Cindy would do? Miss Meister? Yeah. Would be helpful. I' if Miss Mester could come, if she does this kind of briefing or I mean, I think if she does this for council, then maybe we can watch the council meeting to have her not have to come out twice. But transport, I'd be interested in a lot of different elements. Transportation, energy, other any anything that we should be apprised of that would impact um our work here. Okay. Any other requests, questions? No. Okay. Uh I don't think we have any correspondence and there's no director's report tonight. Correct. Correct. All right then. I think we are adjourned. Thank you all. Thank you.