Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

road process. Um I guess uh the more immediate uh news was the bargain market grocery store is going to be open on February the 12th 10:00 ribbon cutting. If anybody wants to attend, they're welcome. The one in the old Target space. Yeah, the former target space. Right. Exactly. And the scooters. Scooters came up with the EDA last night, too, right? Wasn't that Yeah. Uh, in what context?

We're getting back into the scooter business. We're doing it in a in a pretty big hurry. I mean, we're I mean, you know, we're getting on with it. They're trying to get the language uh improved uh based on what we had precoid. You know, we had a whole plan and scheme and co knocked all that flat and a lot has been learned from other jurisdictions that have gone ahead with it and benefit from their experience and but my impression was u that there was interest in a in a trial plan u another pilot

a pilot pretty immediately you know there was some discussion of well let's try for a year and see what we well that's that's and affect what we're doing uh trying it for some period of time. Anyway, I know that was a topic of interest for a lot of people in the community and so watch that space and once the snow's gone maybe uh in June the snow will have melted enough that we can we can replace it with scooters. Interesting.

Anyway, they are moving forward on that. Yeah, the scooters was on the work session yesterday and it will be on the agenda for next week's uh city council meeting. I will say it's uh staff has been working on it for several months. Um I happen to know know that it went to the CAC back in November and I think environmental a little bit before that. I'm sure they're I mean considering the problems with you know scooters being you know littering the the the the streets and the sidewalks. I mean the biggest problem with the scooters is that you know you see errant abandon you know abandoned in quotes scooters littering you know like the the sidewalks left in left you know falling down on you know in the gutter and so I hope there's a plan with whatever vendor we use because I know there's there and there's so many of these companies many of which you know kind of come onto the scene and then just as quickly go off the scene and so I think we have to be careful um and make sure we you know it's something that there's a plan to deal with that because you you see it with the scooters from outside the jurisdiction that still somehow find their way in um and then get abandoned and sort of left for weeks at a time sometimes just cluttering the sidewalk and other places. And so again, just something to keep in mind balancing the pros with, you know, what comes along with it. So I'm sure the groups who are working on this are looking at that because you see it in the other jurisdictions that have worked on that. But, you know, I don't think we should just assume that scooters are something that everyone thinks is fantastic and we need to have them as soon as possible without making sure we have things in place to balance um you know what some of the negatives that do come along with those um you know again given our slightly different you know built environment from let's say DC or Arlington um as far as the demand to use it. Um many people here I just yeah I just you know again I I don't know how how strong the demand is for a scooter program. I mean again we've kind of I'd

be cur I know the capital bike share bikes some of the data shows that you know the usage has been I don't know sort of uneven um and so anyhow I'm sure people are looking at it but I don't know you know how much the city's devoting and funding wise I forgot if it was in our CI or in the CIP um but where's the funding coming from I don't know our council leazison knows

so it'll be out open for uh it'll be on next week's agenda and I also know that it's going before the CACT transportation again ne at the next meeting um there'll be a couple of opportunities for public comment I I will say they've definitely taken those into account and I Matt maybe you can correct me but I don't think there's any cost to the city there it's really more of a question question of how much revenue we might be able to get from them I see that's my understanding as well it's more of a contract in terms of what we are willing to permit

and uh initially starting up a maximum number of scooters and then kind of drilling down into are we comfortable with that as just one operator? Do we want multiple and again back to all the other issues that were previously addressed but I think the previous effort constrained the parameters such that nobody was really coming in to take advantage of it. So, this next pilot, and I emphasize pilot because I think we're going to continue to engage during the piloting phase as the live experiment continues, uh, but trying to see if there's any additional corrections that need to happen and probably regroup at some point to update or remove and see how we need to act further. Yeah.

Yeah. And there isn't a plethora of um, scooter companies like there were the previous time. It's basically fl the market is kind of flushed out and I think uh Arlington has three, Fairfax has one. Um so we're not going to see a gazillion different scooter companies cuz they're they don't exist anymore.

Yeah. Well, hopefully there'll be a thorough vetting so you know public can provide input on it. Um I imagine you I guess yeah I just would caution that it's probably not something that is unanimously viewed as a positive um in the city by all just throw it out there. It comes with a lot of you know negative consequences. So you get to balance the revenue we might get with some of the negatives. Um so and if it's not managed properly because they're dockless so they just they they are where they are. um you know someone decides I'm done with it in here and they leave it you know leaning on someone leaving front of someone's house on their front lawn. So I've seen it I've seen it in Arlington um and I know people in Arlington again it's not unanimously loved as as a huge benefit by all. So just it has to be done right. So

yeah I'm sure we'll learn a lot in the pilot. They have they can have their drawbacks but from a micro mobility standpoint I think there's a lot that's very attractive about them if you're doing it right. Shared mobility. That's the phrase. Mhm. Shared mobility. Um near the school, you may see a lot of scooters piled up in your front yard. So be very careful what you wish for with those things cuz they're all piled up in front of your driveway. You might not like them so much. I'll just take I'll ship them over to your house. All right. That was was described as the la the last mile of the last mile. So you take the take the metro, hop on your bike share, ride it to the bike share station nearest your house, hop on hop on the scooter and go to your front door. I mean that's that is the

a lot of moods. That's the dream. That's the hope. Someone's dream. Yeah. Well, it is. I mean, that's exactly right. It's it's a vision of the city that in some ways is new, but in other ways is sort of the way kids used to get around on their own. you know, leave the house on your bike, go to the little league practice, you know, I mean, people who talk about growing up here in the 50s and 60s, that was the kind of mobility they had and their parents didn't ship them everywhere they had to go. Yeah. So, anyway, it's an interesting I think we will learn as we go along though, benefiting from what other jurisdictions have

done that they've used. Just interesting that you know the two of the highest use opportunities are the metro stations neither of which of course is in the city. So the other jurisdictions if they program their scooters to knock off conk out when they get to the city border then you know that shuts us off. So opening ourselves up to east and west uh creates opportunities.

Great. Well, thank you. Anything else? H oh there was people have been following the discussion of the restaurant community and other businesses uh there was a good bit of discussion of uh of their interests in marketing and promoting and uh the next meeting of that group that's meeting periodically I think it's February 10th uh to talk about opportunities for the city to help the business community promote code itself. Any early returns on restaurant week? Uh there was some discussion but given all the weather and uncertainties that

Yeah, they extended it but um imagine it was a challenge this year. Ask for a report at their next meeting. So they did extend it. All right. Any other reports? Okay. That brings us to the director's report. Uh Mr. over.

Uh so there are two items uh in the report. Uh both should be somewhat familiar. Um the first one is the uh quarterly report uh produced by Emily Basemore um and capturing the last 3 months of calendar year 25. So these are all the planning and zoning updates uh and events that have happened as we kind of rounded out and completed uh the last calendar year. So, a lot of helpful images and uh things that the planning staff and zoning staff were uh in the middle of. Uh so, plenty of materials to kind of uh discover there. The second item is from Jenna Braum who is uh compiling the monthly update to the uh neighborhood traffic calming program. So again, a lot of uh helpful milestones of where every single project is, the recent steps that have taken place and really aimed just to demonstrate progress uh on all the various things that both our department and DPW are working on to uh effectively implement a lot of different improvements throughout the city. So uh plenty of bedtime reading there.

Great. Thank you. Do you have a question, Mr. Duncan? I do. Go ahead. I have a few. Okay. Thank you, Matt. It is indeed an impressive document. People have no idea how much work goes into running the 2.2 square miles of our fair city. Uh, as I went through it last night at bedtime reading, I did jot down a couple of things that I wanted to just ask you about, follow up on. Uh, so I'll try to be brief and feel free to be brief in responding. Is a speed cushion and a speed hump the same thing or something different? I believe it's the same thing, but I'm not the expert. I can get back to you on that.

Okay. I just wondered. I never heard I like the phrase speed cushions, but I had never heard it and I wondered if there's a difference between cushioning and humping. Sorry. Was that the hardest question or we're building our way up? Phil, there having lived with these for a while, there there is a difference. Um the difference between a first off everybody in the public refers to them as speed bumps. Speed bumps are what you see in the parking lots. They're very steep. Yeah. And severe. We don't put those in the city. Speed humps are the gradual ones that we see throughout the city for the most part. A speed cushion has those two slots for um emergency vehicles.

So it doesn't extend all you you've seen that. And then the speed table is kind of flat on the top. Right. Okay. So, is the So, so that's the difference between a speed h um speed cushion and a speed um hump is those two slots. Gotcha. Good. Thank you for that cuz that's I wondered if the ones on West Street had the the cushion category because of the the slice in the middle. Okay. Good. Thank you. That's that's exactly it. And that is not because of my council. That's because I've been in CACT forever.

Yeah. Right. Now I assume that that's your CACT the advantage of that background. Uh other items that are called out in the report include the West Falls phase 2. Did I hear at one of these meetings that I've been to that there is a meeting Matt coming up fairly soon about whether phase two of West Falls will be a go-ahad or whether the option the developer to put up money instead. Is that is that decision coming up pretty quickly?

I think we are a few weeks away from that decision. Uh my understanding is early March. Uh I think a formal update should be made available. But um our teams uh are meeting pretty regularly uh two or three times a month uh on that coordination. So I think once we know something officially we'll definitely pass it along.

Good. Okay. I hope I I hope hope for everybody's purposes that um we know the answer to that question as we go into the budget season because it probably would have some effect on some of the other projects that I'll ask about here in a minute. Uh does anybody have a date for the fresh market as as far as its opening or is there work going on inside? Is it still projected to open sometime in the late winter?

Uh my understanding is they're very close. Uh we've had staff from uh our economic development uh division uh working closely with them. They've frequently stop in with questions. Uh it looks like a great team, but uh I've not been made aware of a specific date.

Okay, good. Hopefully we'll get revenue from that project before uh the end of the fiscal year. Certainly by the beginning of the next fiscal year. Scooters, we've already talked about I asked you about the roundabout which is proceeding. I mean, right now it's obviously not going anywhere because of the snow mountain, but with the roundabout in Annadela Maple will proceed once the snow melts and is projected to be finished sometime in the summer. Is that Ryan? Yeah, I think we it's snow is one thing. I believe temperatures are another as well. Uh depending on the phase, but uh yeah, hopefully by springtime we'll we'll see more construction activity out there.

Okay. and uh the Yini project you as the designated agent approved that. Um is there a date and that we can expect some activity at that site? Uh I do not have a date unfortunately. We have some confidence that they will keep at it or I mean if they've gotten approval. Uh it's been fairly quiet. Uh, so I'm not sure if they're just gearing up and getting all their building permits in place, but Okay, I can follow up on that.

Sure. No, that's fine. And Southly 106 108 that that idea, concept, whatever you want to call it, uh, your document says to expect official withdrawal of that proposal um, as the next step. Um, it's the first time I'd seen that written in black and white quite so much anywhere. So, the proposal to do a number of town houses is off off the books or will be off the books if they officially withdraw. Is that right?

I would say a fair assessment of that is in the current environment given the way our adopted policy, comp plan, zoning ordinance are structured and written, uh it's a withdrawal. If any one of those documents changes uh in the near future, I wouldn't be surprised if we may revisit that. But right now, I think the path forward is very uh unpredictable and therefore I'm not expecting any updates on that.

Okay. All right. And there was some discussion about the bike trail and uh along off it and through the park and so forth and and the nature of the discussions with the Falls Plaza Condominium Association and residents there. Uh what what was your I'm curious to know if you can tell us what your takeaway has been from what's been said about that in the last 3 or 4 days. Is prospect of something happening in the Falls Plaza condominium uh is there a prospect for that or are we more at a a we're going to go this far and then we may have to stop?

I think at the moment there's still prospects. Um I think there's some education and collaboration ahead of us and kind of trying to realize uh an agreed upon vision. Um sometimes these difficult uh connections really have to navigate delicate conversations with different property owners. Um and we also have a lot of topography changes there and some engineering challenges. But uh if the property owner is not willing to participate that certainly makes things more difficult. Uh but uh I'm hoping the next few conversations really get past that issue.

Okay. All righty. Uh I think that's it. Uh some of the other stuff will probably come up when we discuss the CIP when we next get that report, which is Are we next up for a CIP report or is it a council that you're making that presentation to next next week? The CIP I think is on the upcoming agenda uh on the 18th. Yeah.

Okay. So, it comes to us on the 18th. All right. And there were a couple of references on the traffic calming document itself to uh projects that go bum. We've been at them for three or four or five years sometimes. Uh, one that caught my eye was on Fowler Street, which seems to have gone through a torturous process and is on the verge of being dismissed. Um, I know there was some discussion at one of these meetings, I think it was the retreat maybe, about where we're going with neighborhood traffic calming process and approach and so forth. What what what what have you taken away from the discussions that you've heard about these projects that you know come up from the neighborhoods and seem to take years to complete years of time that staff has to spend and the neighbors have to spend what what what have you come away with thinking?

Uh very deep philosophical thoughts. Um, I I think some of us view those projects as neighborhood building uh opportunities and establishing relationships with key stakeholder groups in certain neighborhoods. And I think as you do that um and enough projects get added to the queue, at some point you have to thread the needle of becoming efficient and cost effective while still allowing folks to have an opportunity to participate, engage, and influence uh because these are things that they're going to have to live with. Um and in many cases, I think impact the appearance of certain uh streets uh and front yards. So, we're doing our best to make sure that people that do feel strongly about some of the designs have a chance to be considered, but we also have a process that I think everybody agreed to follow. Uh, and at some cases, I think we have to execute and actually complete these projects. So, um, certainly some of the active ones are allowing us to kind of reflect back on the way we are engaging these in, uh, future projects. And I would imagine uh in the spirit of transparency, we'll probably have additional updates in the near future about um how can we be more effective not just with staff resources, but making sure that everybody can expect maybe a more timely execution of these projects that still allows some opportunity for feedback. Uh and that's not a, you know, simple process. Um and I think we're going to have to have some conversations about rolling that out and making sure um everybody's on board.

Okay. Thank you for that philosophical answer. Good uh good thought. Okay. finally in my neighborhood and my fellow commissioner here. So, uh, Founders Road to Madera's parking overage situation, whatever you want to call it, uh, staff's decided to, as I read in the report, put a zone 3 designation on the 200 block of 200 block of Southwest Street and part of Ellison Street. Is that is that route being rolled out? cuz I I haven't heard about it but I assume at some point there'll be information about it

that will be rolled out. Um the reason for the limited geography of that program is uh following uh overnight occupancy surveys um and working with our you know police department we've been able to indicate that certain blocks I think probably could benefit from that program. Uh others don't seem to be as impacted upon the survey. Uh so the ones that I think were more heavily utilized and clearly are uh providing some impact to the community will have uh the restriction placed uh but we still have to go through the process of manufacturing signs and and waiting for the right conditions to kind of implement that and clearly we're probably a few weeks if not months away given the weather and ice.

Okay. Two two questions. uh is the nature of zone 3 u what hours are covered by the signs that will go up whenever they go up. I'd have to double check and get back to you on that. Okay. All right. What action is necessary to to expand the parking zone? The council has to do that. Who who who does that? I'm not sure if there's a formal legislative process. input. I'm just wondering who gets to decide whether or not you know public street gets to be

I think it's more administrative if certain criteria are met and in this case some of the criteria are met so it's not a full implementation it's only going to impact about two or three specific blocks closest to Madera and is the thinking that um uh the current no parking signs on the north side of Ellison Street go or stay or become zone three parking areas themselves or is that the sort of information that will come to us in the fullness of time? Um, we can come back and embed that in the next director's report. Okay. Great. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Yeah. Thank you. Any other questions? Uh, Mr. Stevens. Yeah, just one item. I appreciate the, uh, all the information and the effort that, you know, staff put into producing this. One thing that caught my attention was um towards the end of it uh under the BZA cases and hearings. I think it's page 28. Yeah.

Uh talk talks about 9006 Madison Lane uh had a proposed ADU which was denied. So that caught my attention. So I went back in and read the minutes from the BCA. Turns out the application wasn't really an accessory dwelling unit. It was, you know, kind of different set of circumstances that they tried to label as as an ADU. Uh but it did raise a question of uh just how many applications we've had for ADUs. And it'd be interesting to hear from our zoning folks as far as uh what their perception is of what's been happening. You know, how many people have come in and made inquiries and once they find the details, determine that it's, you know, it's too difficult or just any other kind of data like that that might help us understand the uh impact of our uh of our ordinance a little bit better. That's it. Thanks.

My understanding, I'm not sure if that's the same case, but we only received one formal application this past summer, August, Septemberish. Um, I don't think it preceded or maybe it was withdrawn at some point. Maybe it's the same case. Yeah, this one involved a second driveway and it turns out they just wanted to get to their garage to work on cars. They weren't going to put a bathroom or any kind of plumbing or anything like that. So, it really wasn't, you know, an ADU.

And is it's difficult. uh at at this point to draw conclusions where you know even within the first year of existence is it just market conditions or was there something in the you know language itself where it just had too many controls and makes it impossible. Um but we can definitely kind of verify if even informal conversations happen because those are more difficult to quantify.

Right. Yeah. Thanks. Uh, one thing to add, our neighbors across the street are building an ADU in the back of the house and volunteered if anybody wants to come over and see what it looks like. Uh, I believe they think I they think it's the first one since we changed the byite rules. Um, but it's on Patterson Street. Uh, if anybody wants to come by and take a look at what they're building and sort of what it looks like for the spacing.

That's great. We'll we'll also uh be putting together a summary report of the first year's worth of activity under the um ordinance update. Uh so that'll be going to city council in a year following its adoption which will be in the spring. And so we'd be happy to bring that to the commission too. Um I noticed there's a really large uh structure going up in the rear of a yard on Spring Street. Did you all see that? I think it's like an artist studio. Um it's about the size of the house. So just something to note. South.

Yeah. On if you're going down on the right side um uh near right next right near a few shy the scout house. So I don't just take a look at it. I think it's something to think about like is that is that sort of the the kind is that an accessory use to the principal dwelling? Um, is that familiar with that or is that just a by right? Do you know the address or intersection?

Uh, it's on South Spring. It's probably if the scout house is. Yeah, maybe 116 or so. 118 South Spring Street somewhere in that neighborhood. We don't have to talk about it now, but I just I'd encourage the commissioners to to go take a look at it because I think it might be something that um we would want to talk about. Um can we like take a look at the look ahead uh Mr. Matusk cuz the February 18th meeting this is something just by the way that we used to do kind of routinely and I think we kind of fell out of the habit and it's useful I think for um the commission to take take a moment um at the end of the director's report to take a look at the look ahead just so we have a sense of what's coming up. Um so the February 18th meeting is looking pretty meaty. I'm assuming all these things have to happen on the 18th of these public hearings.

Uh they do. However, a number of them involve just subdivisions. Uh, so they should be quicker,

at least one or two that we've looked at with this body earlier. So, there's a lot of return visits and then I think you have some housing and CIP updates on their um uh ongoing work as they kind of prepare for uh upcoming meetings. So, uh, difficult to say, I guess, which one's going to be the longest, but I I don't anticipate the initial ones. Um, will take too much time. Uh, including the, uh, facilities chapter update, which recently was discussed by the council at their work session and is really covering a u pretty hefty uh, response matrix to comments received from the last four or five months of feedback. Um, so I think Zoe and others kind of really help format that document so you can quickly catch what's changed.

Um, but there's really nothing substantive in terms of issues, but more just accuracy and and kind of responding to considerations and suggestions from the last few weeks, months. Okay, that sounds great. Uh, and then for the next meeting, we'll have the tree canopy zoning amendment and we saw that in work session I think in November. Mhm. Have there been any substantive changes to that in the interim?

Only technical. Um the core recommendation remains the same. Uh we did discover there were two minor tweaks uh to ensure this complies with the state provisions. Uh so you'll see those and we kind of direct your attention to that. But the 10% is still there. And um we're kind of using this as officially establishing a baseline from which we expect to reach much higher targets through other policy documents that don't have to live in the city code. Um but this certainly helps with some of the ongoing conversations with the development community.

Okay, great. Thank you. Uh and then it looks like we have a pretty quick turnaround on the CIP. We have the work session on the 18th and then the public hearing on the 4th. I know some um commissioners appreciate the binders. Are you all creating those this year? Yes. I was going to ask to see I know Caitlyn I think was going to default to seven uh hard copies. Is that preferable? It's helpful. Okay. Yeah.

I'll relay the message. I I think those should be available by um uh sometime next week, I think is what she told me. So we might have a little time to um to review those before the 18th meeting. Yeah, that be good. Yes.

Is that where may I ask is that where the discussion about the reshuffleling of the greeny of Lincoln various projects is going to live? I I know that's been discussed here in the last week or so. Changes, funding, ARPA slough, I don't know, all sorts of acronyms being thrown around. Is that all going to be attempted to be resolved by the time we see the CIP? Um, I I think any CIP issue would be fair game to to raise and talk about with Caitlin during during those uh during the work session.

Okay. Well, I'd suggest just having listened to other council and particular talk about that issue. Yeah, it would be helpful to get as much as we can as early as we can on that. U because it did strike me as something that some folks might have some thoughts about the greening of Lincoln and Lincoln and any any other specific

Yeah. and the couple of projects drop off the list because of funding constraints and how do we feel about that? How do they feel about that? is that is that well I understand we need to spend the money and all the money is going to be well spent but at least a couple of projects elsewhere besides the Lincoln area as far as I can tell are going to have to be put on the whatever the calendar is that's way down beyond down the road and that just needs to be the public needs to be aware of that as we go through the CIP process. Yes.

All right. Any other thoughts? Uh any correspondence tonight? No, chair. Okay. So then I think uh our next item is a close session. Um Mr. Stevens, did you want to do the honors?

Yes. Uh I'll go ahead and make a motion that the planning commission convene immediately in a closed session as authorized by Virginia Code section 2.2-3. 2-3711A88 for consultation with legal counsel employed or retained by a public body regarding specific legal matters requiring the provision of legal advice by such council to consult with the city attorney regarding a specific legal matter requiring the provision of legal advice by the city attorney. Specifically, legal advice concerning authority for the review and approval of site plans. Is there a second? Second. We have a roll call vote. Mr. Pollinsky, yes. Mr. Duncan,

yes. Mr. Kryner, yes. Mr. Stevens, yes. Miss Freedellander, yes. Chair Kat, yes. Thank you. Okay. So, we'll move into close session. Um, and then we will return here to chambers and adjourn. Uh, come back into we will reconvene and then we will certify the closed session and then then we will adjurnn. So there's no other substantive items for tonight. All right. Thank you. Please let us know where to go.

want to just get let me know when you want red. Wait for Phil. Oh, there he is. Right. We have to go back on TV. Yeah. The bunker. I forgot about our desire. I guess I'll just do the one right after the other. I think we just vote on each. Oh, okay. All right. All set. All set. Yeah.

All right. Um, I move uh that we uh that the planning commission having concluded its closed meeting at 9:10 reconvene in open session. Is there a second? Second. Second with Mr. Pinsky. Uh, can we have a roll call? Mr. Pinsky? Yes. Mr. Duncan? Yes. Mr. Kraner? Yes. Mr. Stevens? Yes. Miss Freedellander? Yes. And Chair Com? Yes.

Thank you. Next, I move that the members of the planning commission certify that to the best of their knowledge, only public business matters lawfully exempted from open meeting requirements and only such public business matters as were identified in the motion by which the closed meeting was convened were heard, discussed, or considered in meeting by the planning commission. Is there a second? Second. Miss Freellander on the second. Roll call. Mr. Pinsky? Yes. Mr. Duncan? Yes, Mr. Kraner. Yes, Mr. Stevens. Yes, Miss Freellander. Yes, Cher. Yes, thank you.

Okay, thank you all. And then I think uh I think with that we are adjourned. Have a good night. Told you quick. There's a