Town Council - Regular Meeting

We gather here after a period that was not easy for our town. A recall election by its nature is intense. It can stir fear, anger, disappointment, hope, and deep uncertainty, often all at the same time. And I want to name that plainly. This moment has affected people differently, and all of that feels very real. It is very real. What I also know is that when people step forward, speak out or organize, even in ways we strongly disagree with, it almost always comes from a caring place deeply about wanting the community to be safe, fair, and sustainable. Beneath the conflict are shared needs to be heard, to belong, and to trust that our community is moving in the right direction. We are one community. And in a time when our country and our world feel increasingly fractured, I believe we have both an opportunity and an obligation to do better here in our small town, not by ignoring what happened and not by relitigating it, but by choosing how we move forward together. Healing begins when we slow down enough to listen, not to rebut, but to understand. It begins when we remember that most of us want the same fundamental things, safe communities, decent jobs, a town that functions, and a future that feels possible for our kids and grandkids. We don't have to agree on everything, and surely we will not. Democracy does not require unanimity. It requires relationship, and relationship is built through consistent, respectful presence. And that work begins here, in these chambers with how we speak to one another as colleagues on the dais, how we treat staff and the public, how we hold disagreement, and how we lead by example. The way we conduct ourselves as council members, staff, and residents set the tone for civic life in this town. And I want to be very clear about an invitation. I'm asking residents to recommit to showing up in ways that work for you. There are many ways to do that. Some will speak at meetings, some will volunteer, some will organize events, support local spaces, or simply have thoughtful conversations with neighbors, and all of that matters. As mayor, I have a few personal goals I'm committing to in this next chapter. First, fostering healing through collaboration and respect, modeled by this council. That means continuing to strengthen how we work together, especially when things are hard. And I want to recognize my colleague, Vice Mayor Egger, who came to an agenda setting planning meeting. I thought it was very good, a lot of good input. We've already begun, Frank. So to support this, we will be hosting a short workshop at our annual council retreat on February 13th. It's about building skills, not assigning blame, and about leading with intention. Second, improving how we conduct our meetings so they are effective and productive. As I mentioned earlier, structural changes include adjourning the meeting by 11 p.m. And so I'm just gonna pause there and share with you some really interesting statistics that Christine Foster pulled together for us because the length of our meetings has been an issue long before uh my tenure and my tenure is six years already and it's one of the things that i originally campaigned on because i just thought it was so ridiculous that um you know fiscal decisions were being made really important decisions were being made at the wee hours in the morning it was not uncommon to have um meetings at two like last past two a.m and I needn't say anymore. So she did some research across all 11 jurisdictions in the county. And, you know, the length of our meetings average five hours or more. No one comes close to that. San Rafael, which is the largest population, average meeting is two hours. Novato, two hours. Mill Valley, two hours. Larkspur, three hours. And it goes on and on. No one even comes in at four. So then you look at, is it the average of items on the agenda? Are we loading the agendas? No, it's not the case. So we fall right in the middle as far as consent items. Those are items as a section on the agenda. If you're not familiar with how agendas are structured, there's a regular agenda items, and then there's consent agenda. And we fall squarely in the middle of consent items, number of consent items. As far as regular items, same. Everybody comes in at four, essentially. Court of Madera comes in at 3.4. So we're not an outlier is what I'm trying to say as far as loading the agendas. So it really, what do we have in our community that's different? And it's a very active, engaged community. And we don't want to change that, but we also have to continue to get the work done. So I'm asking all of us to be really prepared for our meetings. We've talked about this in the past. If you have questions, that's wonderful. We want you to roll up your sleeves and do the work. Ask the questions of staff. in advance so they have time to answer your questions, and then you can summarize the responses and share what you've learned with the community from the dais. There's lots of ways to be more efficient, and I'm not gonna get into that, but I ask for everybody's cooperation in getting through the agenda in a reasonable time period. And thank you again, Christine, for preparing all of that data. It was very, very useful. So again, the goal is a process that respects people's time, energy, and capacity to participate meaningfully. And third, continuing the strong momentum on infrastructure that protects our town and prepares us for the future. This includes ongoing work on the stormwater system, our bridges, there's several bridges that are in different stages of renovation, our building electrification. and EV chargers. I also want us to seriously explore the viability of the resiliency center at the pavilion. Our former colleague, Bruce Ackerman, has done amazing work, and it's very close to having a solid business case ready for public, private, and grant funding opportunities, and I believe this could be a meaningful investment for community safety and preparedness. I'll be hosting quarterly meet the mayor sessions with town staff to create space for questions, concerns, and open dialogue. And I also want people to know as they have for the past six years that you are welcome to reach out to me directly. My email is on the website and my phone number has been published. Many, many times, 415-250-5129. I urge everyone to support community spaces where you can connect with your neighbors, listen, and talk face-to-face. Our amazing locally organized events, these are the places where we see one another as neighbors first and where our town truly shines. If we can interrupt the cycle of mistrust, we may actually start fixing the things that matter most. And if we lead with care, honesty, and courage, even when it's uncomfortable, we can show that community still works. Thank you so much.

All right. So we are technically in the announcement section.

Does anyone have any announcements as far as things you would like the community to know, whether it's public events or celebratory noteworthy anything?

I just wanted to note that I believe the Hummingbird Cafe will be closing, and that's been a really vital part of our community for a really long time. I don't have it in front of me right now, but if you look around town, they're going to have a Mardi Gras celebration at some point later this month. And just putting that out there, because I felt like they've been very central to building community as a business in Fairfax. And the second one is maybe something that Heather or somebody else will announce, which is that I think we will be... um thanking our outgoing commissioner on the aging commission and um he's going to talk about that in the town managers good then i will leave that alone and that's it anyone else

Not seeing any. OK, I want to thank the Department of Public Works for lighting up the town over the holiday season. It was really wonderful. And for PD and fire keeping us safe during the storms. Obviously, public works as well. Everyone who worked to create a wonderful and successful winter market crafts fair and the Hanukkah menorah lighting. A couple other announcements. There's a free hand-building clay classes available for Fairfax, and I think that was announced through the newsletter. If you don't get the newsletter, please subscribe. And for the first time in 25 years, California's water supply... is categorized as we are not no longer in a drought. There's not a single square mile of California that is categorized as dry, according to the US Drought Monitor. So for those of us who have lived through several droughts, that's reason to celebrate. And finally, the AARP released its 2025 rankings of the top communities in the country for older adults. And Fairfax is in the top 25 for small communities. So that's noteworthy and worth celebrating as well. So with that, we will move on to the town manager's report.

Thank you, Mayor. Just wanted to give you an update on the business license process. I'm excited to report on the town's new online business license registration system, which was innovated by our own Jenna by Owen. So thank you. Staff worked hard to mail approximately 2,000 renewal letters to businesses who were registered up to five years ago, and we've been able to resolve any issues with the software, and we've gotten great feedback from businesses. The registration timeframe is still open through February, and we've already received 94 applications, so it's very exciting. I wanted to give you a little more detail on formula business ordinance update this Thursday. The planning commission will have a study session on the formula business ordinance update, and then there'll be a public hearing at the planning commission in February, and then it will come back to the council for adoption. A parklets update. I'm happy to report that all parklet payments are up to date except for two. And the planning director, Jeff Beiswinger, has done a great job in really following up on that. Age-friendly. As you mentioned, the Fairfax's liaison, Kristen Amelie, has graciously submitted her resignation. So we'll be recruiting for a new liaison and look for announcements in the newsletter and on the town's website. Disaster Council. is coming up the citizens disaster council meeting is scheduled for january 28th in this room at 1 pm so women's club and the public is encouraged to attend and the agenda will be posted on our website soon i also wanted to echo kudos to the public works crew in particular Recent storms brought a small landslide on Bay Road and also a collapsed drain on Spruce Road. And they did a really good job of preparing for the storm so that only minimal damage occurred, as you see. And they were able to clean those up very quickly. You have seen in the town's special news post that Ross Valley Sanitary District is doing a project on Sherman and Bolinas roads and that may cause minor disruption for another couple of weeks and then that should be finished. Looking further ahead, Marin Water is planning a project on Bolinas Road, which they anticipate starting in April. MMWD has sent out letters to addresses near the project, and then staff has invited Marin Water to speak to the council and community with more details, hopefully at the March 4th meeting. So look forward to that. Wanted to make a special congratulations to Maria Baird. She has brought joy to the town's recreation programs for 20 years, so wanted to acknowledge her service. The mayor mentioned the strategic planning retreat is coming up, tentatively scheduled for February 13th. This is a full day council meeting for council to set goals for the future. The public is welcome. And following the strategic planning process, then the town's budget is built and the three meetings on the budget occur. Animal Services, the town is a member of the Marin General Services Authority, MGSA, which funds animal services and the council approves the budget every year for that. So you'll be seeing a $58,000 check for that in the financial reports in the near future. We pay that twice a year and that service does everything from help protect the baby owls in the redwood grove near town hall and also helps you know cat and dog rescue as well and then finally the audit and mid-year budget report finance staff is working with the auditor on the annual financial audit we hope to bring the auditor to do a brief presentation at a council meeting in the spring preferably the same meeting that will be presenting the mid-year budget report so that you can see those all together so that concludes my report wonderful thank you heather uh moving did you have an announcement

I just want to add that I filled out the business license and paid for it, and there was a little glitch with, I think, the software that Jonabai Owens helped me with to get past it. So it's very easy, and I would encourage anybody to use it. It's really, we are moving into the future. Thank you, Jonabai.

Okay, thank you. Moving on to future agenda items. So I'm going to start with what I believe we've already talked about in the public forum as far as what's on the horizon without specifying a date, because I don't know that we have that figured out yet or it's not set in stone yet, but you've already mentioned a formula business ordinance. We know we need to make adjustment to the cannabis ordinance. We had very special and urgent circumstances last year, and we included an address in the ordinance of a site that will no longer be supporting cannabis, and it just doesn't make sense to be there. So that's on the horizon. I also understand the Planning Commission has been working on a dark sky policy, so that will be coming to Council. We have on the agenda this evening a subcommittee for naming the wall property, so anticipate that coming before the Council. And then... A fee study, I believe, where Council Member Blasch, you requested a permit fee waiver, a reduction for home hardening for residents. So I think that would fall under a fee study. And then I think you also raised objective standards and design in the wake of the housing policy presentation in September.

Yeah, but that was voted no.

Oh, it was? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then I also wanted to... advise the community that we will need to be, we as a council need to make a decision related to our sales tax measure C, which expires this year, essentially technically expires in March of 27, but we would need to renew it on the ballot this year. So that will be something that we discuss at the February 13th retreat. So does anybody have any other items they want to bring up, bring forward for a future agenda?

If I may, Mayor, thank you. I've just got two. One is the former Fairfax French Laundry and Cleaners, the site that was burned out in 2021. And some of the neighbors have really been concerned about it. So I've been in some discussions with the state agency, and they're going to come into Fairfax and do a walkthrough with the community here. And I'm recommending that we agendize this for their next meeting to maybe set up an ad hoc committee with either the mayor, myself, or perhaps council member. Kohler, who at one time worked for that agency.

Vice Mayor, is the walkthrough already scheduled? Do you have a date for that?

They haven't set a date. It's going to be sometime in March, but they talked about having a council meeting, and I said, we really don't need a council meeting. We don't want to invite the whole town to the walkthrough, but if we have a mayor and a council member there and the staff there, a town manager and somebody from planning there, or maybe even public works, to do the walkthrough, and that way we'll have an idea what's going on. The owner of the property also contacted the state because they found toxics there, and so hopefully it's a state brownfield agency that's going to come in and do this inspection, and hopefully they'll be able to get some state funds to clean up that site so it can be redeveloped. I mean, it's been sitting here now for about five years.

So what I'm hearing is a request to put this on next month so we can get in front of the market and walk through. So do we have any nays on that or we think that's a good idea? Do we want it to...

I just want to say that I have worked on, I mean, I created those programs in the state. I didn't just kind of work there. And I've worked on a couple of sites in Fairfax pro bono. I am a consultant, but I've done them for free. For example, FitLab, I worked with the owners and There won't be state money to clean that up, but what would be is the owners would be responsible for cleaning it up. So hopefully it's not a big problem. But regardless, if I'm on the subcommittee or not, it would be good for me to review the documents.

Okay, good. That's one. The other item, and I've talked about this in the PACs, is the speed limits in our downtown area. A law passed in January 2024 that allowed cities and towns to reduce speed limits in downtown areas or wherever they thought it'd be necessary from five miles an hour. So we could reduce some of our downtown speed limits from 25 to 20 miles an hour. And then a new law went into effect January of this year, and it's giving cities and towns in the county the opportunity to reduce their speed limits in school zones. We have three schools, Longstreet, Francis Drake, White Hill, Manor, and Ross Valley Charter. So the state is saying to the cities, if you don't reduce those speed limits in those schools, in those school zones that they're going to put a state law. The state's got to come in and do that in 2031. So I think we ought to sometime in the future, take a look at that, reducing speed limits to make our downtown safer. I wanted to not setting a date at all.

But can I just note that this has been a big topic of conversation in the safer to school task force that I'm the liaison for, and they have been reducing speed limits around some schools. I think it's an ensemble. So it's it's an interesting topic and they should be

Well, I guess I'd want to understand the truth because you said you said a few things in there. So it's a pretty big topic. And there is overlap with the work that the bicycle and pedestrian commission is doing right now, too, with that consultant. Right. Is it not?

I'm not sure if the Bicycle Pedestrian Committee is going to look at speed limits.

Well, that's what I'm saying. Didn't you say crosswalk? You started with crosswalk, though, right?

Well, right now I'm just talking about reducing speed limits right now in a downtown area along Sir Francis Drake.

I think it would be good to get some advisement about who should be handling that issue, who is handling that issue, because it seems like there's different overlapping committees that are maybe looking at that. But I think it's important, and it did come up with Saferness to School. They are reducing, and I think they do have to have some criteria, though, to allow them to reduce them around schools. So it would be really interesting to follow up, like, who is doing that work? especially with the school. The other work around the general speed limits, you know, we might want to confer with Tam about that.

Yeah, I would like to understand scope again because there's a real inconsistency with speed limits throughout the town. I mean, technically in the hills in Fairfax where you can barely fit a car through, the limit's 25.

Miles an hour. Mayor, can I make a suggestion? I think rather than putting on the agenda now for future, I think we ought to have Council Member Blass, who's involved in TAN and Safe Routes to School, really figure out the scope of this before we decide to take it on.

But can we, like, raise it in future agenda items, like, say, at the next meeting? Just make a recommendation. But I'm going to say, I just wanted to drop. That's all. So I'm willing to commit to finding out more, and I'm sure that town staff are, but I don't want to let it drop. Yeah, I think that's fine. I just said not right now.

Yeah, but I would appreciate you coming back with a recommendation on scope and understanding of, like, where. you know, what bodies kind of govern or oversee the recommendations related to what?

I think we can get a copy of the two state laws that went into effect to allow us the opportunity. I know Santa Rosa, Petaluma, even the County of Marin is reducing speed limits in their downtown areas to 20 miles an hour or so. We can get a copy of those, the new laws.

Okay, thank you. Anything else, Member Garangeli?

Yes, I mentioned this about a year ago. and was basically a little bit shut down. But anyway, I'd like to lead a volunteer effort to beautify our downtown, including town hall, pruning, striping, fixing problem areas of sidewalks. We can do a lot of this work with volunteers. I've done some of the work myself with volunteers downtown near my businesses. And it just looks nicer. So the downtown should be something that will shine for the businesses. When the businesses thrive, more tax revenues come into the town. We will have less businesses struggling. And I think that's something I would like to have happen.

Do you want to lead that?

I don't know that you need a privilege.

Yeah, I mentioned that. I do want to lead that.

What about a suggestion to talk about it and focus it at the retreat and then you could take it on? The retreat seems like a good place for that rather than sitting up here.

I don't know that that really requires a vote, Mike. I mean, you don't need permission to lead volunteers to beautify the town.

I prefer that, believe me.

Thank you. So, okay.

Okay.

And also talk with the chamber about their interest in that because that would benefit the Chamber of Commerce.

Yeah, thank you. I have one other thing I wanted to mention. When it comes to safety concerns, whether it's... downtown, or even beyond any part of the town. We know that there are safety concerns, and I won't mention specifically where they are, but we all know where they are, some of them anyway. from crosswalks to whatever, and I think we need to not keep delaying these types of fixes we need, and I'm not sure how we're going to do it, but we need to expedite this fixing of areas, whether it's striping or... improving or even eliminating certain areas where we've had problems throughout the town. And so I would like to either to put that on the agenda or, and talk about it or, um, make sure it gets done without that.

Okay. Mike, would it be, would you be okay with, I'm hearing you on the safety. I think we all are aligned on the need for safety, pedestrian safety, especially, um, Would it be okay if you and I talk offline about how to really scope this? Because I didn't hear a crystal clear action item as far as an agenda topic.

I specifically didn't make exact.

But we can't agenda something if it's not specific. Well, it's about safety. Well, but safety as an agenda item is not, that's not.

That's not. No.

You can't put safety on the agenda. What would we vote on? What would we vote on?

areas we're going to address can we okay that's what i mean let's talk about this okay let's take it offline okay i'll give you a buzz and i'd also like to suggest if it's not a bound act violation since i'm usually the only council member there that um you can attend bicycle pedestrian advisory committee meetings as then do you do want to talk about what we get on the agenda related to that we could we could okay

Thank you all. Let's move on to the open time for public expression. This is the time for the public to address the council on matters not on the agenda. Each speaker is limited to two minutes. The council can take action or excuse me, the council cannot take action or discuss items not on the agenda as restricted by state law. If there are more speakers after 30 minutes, open time will continue at the end of the agenda.

Hi. Good evening. Todd Greenberg, downtown Fairfax. I want to speak about public safety, excess deficit spending, and proper governance and discrimination where jobs still aren't properly done. The lighting in the back of the room is not adequate. And as I've mentioned numerous times before, the agenda items are should be in 12-point type so everybody can easily read them. Otherwise, those with normal vision and handicapped vision cannot read them in the back of the room. I bring this up because by my math, the town is on track to spend over a million dollars in legal costs this year in at least four different categories. That's an out of control legal budget. So there are no, as I understand it, legal cost controls in place right now. The town continues contrary to law to not respond to numerous PRAs. That adds to town's liability and adds to the town's legal costs. What's going to be done about that? Why is there no report out from the last three closed sessions, special meetings? One might say, well, there were no votes taken, but that hasn't been mentioned in any of the meetings here. Is the town's Business being done behind closed doors? If so, those would be additional Brown Act violations. If there were Brown Act violations, the town would have to spend more legal monies. Why not prevent that? Cost controls need to be put into place.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Are there any other speakers in the room?

Good evening, Mayor Hellman, council members, staff, and fellow community members, Jody Timms, Cascade Drive. Two things I just wanted to mention tonight. One has already been mentioned a couple of times, but I'll just add my congratulations to us as a town to get our age-friendly ranking in the top 25 nationally of AARP's 20-25 livability rankings those rankings evaluate communities based on factors like housing transportation walkability health and community engagement and this ranking reflects the town's strong quality of life and our age-friendly environment And in particular, I want to express many, many thanks to Barbara Kohler for her years and years of support to this International World Health Organization's initiative here in Fairfax. uh second i just wanted to mention that the climate action committee will be hosting an electrification fair on march 15th here in the women's club from 11 to 1. we're going to have an induction cooking demonstration we're going to have information on heat pump water heaters several experts a lot of tables to discuss electrification choices that we have for our homes and apartments And speaking of electric buildings, I wanted to be sure the community knows that this building, the Women's Club, is 100% fully electric. If you didn't know, it is no longer powered by gas in any way. We have an HVAC heating and cooling system, heat pump, water heater, and induction stove in the kitchen. So we're hoping that maybe we can get a little sign or plaque or something out front that says, this building is 100% electric. um and many thanks to the council for and the staff for implementing these goals which are part of the 2030 climate action plan so thank you all for your support in creating a healthier town i like the tone mark bell fairfax like to go back in time a little bit uh

Councilmember Gearing-Galley several months ago kind of gave us a ballpark figure on what people were making as far as their salaries. Just to, I don't exactly recall the numbers, but I believe the town manager is about $280,000 a year plus. Planning director, $175,000 a year plus benefits. The town manager has two assistants. That's probably another $300,000 plus. And the attorney, especially with her overrides, is probably over half a million for her part-time job here in the town of Fairfax. So my question is, there was this announcement that School Street Plaza construction was denied. However, the attorney for the developer said, well, you missed your 60-day window. to raise the 29 points that you did, therefore we have, by right or whatever, the ministerial whatever the term is, to do whatever we want. So my question is, with all these courses, these people taking various online classes, how did everyone miss, let's learn how to count to 60. How come nobody could count 60 days for a response? I believe the total of salary that I just recounted is over $1.3 million a year. Nobody could count to 60? Really? And then all of a sudden, oh, wait, we were wrong. You can do whatever you want. Nice. Was that by design or was that by ignorance? Either one are disgusting.

Good evening, Mayor.

Good evening.

and council um i'll just make it quick san anselmo just changed their stipend from 300 to a thousand and something a month for the the council members i think we should do the same three hundred dollars a month is ridiculously too little for all the time that you folks put in thank you

Any more members of the public in the audience here? Seeing none. Do we have any folks on Zoom with their hands raised? All right. Closing public, or excuse me, closing open time for public expression and moving on to the regular agenda. The first item, actually, before we do that, I just want to address a couple of things we heard. We had a comment about spending on legal costs, yes, we have nine or more active cases, a couple of other potential out there. It's very expensive, and we do everything we can to avoid litigation risk. There's no action taken in the last few closed meetings, so there's nothing reportable. We don't report on anything that there was no action taken. Do you have anything to add to that, Janet? No, that's correct. Okay. And with regard to School Street, there was some activity in the last week. So I just want to clarify for the community where things are. There was a couple of letters exchanged. And my understanding is they're the clarifications requested on the conditions have been met and that the applicant has pulled their appeal is that that's correct okay um and i think that was it let's move on to a regular agenda item one is a public hearing with the introduction of an ordinance amending chapter eight Dot four for clean indoor and outdoor air and health protection, smoking regulations by amending definitions, establishing minimum pricing for packages of cigarettes, cigars, little cigars and smokeless tobacco, prohibiting the redemption of coupons and discounts, banning the sale of electronic smoking devices, heated smoking systems and tobacco or nicotine pouches and imposing other requirements. And I believe we have a guest presenter expert on the topic.

Yes, Mayor. So I am happy to introduce Anita Renzetti from the Tobacco Prevention Program in Marin and very thankful that the county has taken the lead and then fairfax is um the first of the jurisdictions to take this in um as our own as well so i'll turn it over to anita and then if you have any questions about the ordinance itself we'll turn that over to janet

Good evening, Mayor Hellman, the City Council members, the dedicated staff, and of course all of the wonderful youth and adult volunteers here, and everyone who is here either on Zoom or in person. I'm here tonight to talk with you about reducing youth access to tobacco and nicotine products. Not only do I work in this field, and I have volunteered and worked in this field for 20 years, but I lost my husband, Paul, to a smoking-related cancer. His daughter was only 14 years old. I am going to talk a little bit about what was passed recently at the Marin Board of Supervisors, a similar ordinance. And also, I just want to note, as a county employee, I won't be taking any kind of position or stance on the proposed ordinance tonight. Next. So Marin, as many of you know, is a public health leader in the area of tobacco and nicotine prevention. Specifically, there have been laws passed such as the smoke-free indoor multi-unit housing laws, outdoor smoke-free areas. You also might know about the flavored products that were made illegal way before that happened at a state level. and the end to all sale of tobacco at stores that have pharmacies. So this, again, ahead of the curve, ahead of the state, and often ahead of the nation. And thank you, again, to all of the people that make these things happen, the youth and adult coalitions, of course, Health and Human Services with the county, and these wonderful groups like this, the council members in all the different jurisdictions that pass those laws. And yet, I'm going to go to the next slide, please. While all of this is great and good, the health and financial burdens of tobacco are still here with us. They're better, but they're still amazingly scary. For example, the 40,000 deaths a year in California alone from smoking-related cancers, different cardiovascular events, all kinds of horrible illnesses where people are dragging oxygen tanks behind them. And then I also want to point out that it's costing all of us. It's costing in the state annually. Smoking alone causes $18 billion worth of costs, such as lost wages. And of course, also all of the health care premiums as they go up. A good portion of that is because we're trying to take care of people who have been using tobacco. And then the good news is that for every dollar that you spend on tobacco control, health care costs fall $231. So this is an incredible investment. Anything that you can do to slow down the progress of the tobacco industry at hooking more people, this is all financially very helpful to the state. And that means us. Also, I wanted to talk about real quick that there are health disparities. The smoking and use of tobacco products doesn't hit everybody the same way. In fact, it is adults in poverty, for example, and LGBTQ plus youth smoke at twice the rate of the general public. Also, black Americans are dying at a much higher rate from tobacco-related illnesses. And low-income communities, they don't have the same protections often against smoke, drifting secondhand smoke. So these are all to be considered. Next. What I would also want to talk about a little bit is that the tobacco industry is still trying to increase their profits, of course, but they have to replace those people who use tobacco who either die or quit or for one reason or another are no longer customers. One way they did this was, if you saw that, you might have seen the show Big Vape on Netflix. Well, Big Vape was kind of saying that we're going to use vapes instead. We're going to try and develop this product and save billions of people from dying from smoking. and it did not go well. Turned out that was not what happened. Smoking is one really tough thing, but if you look at the slide, you can see that the cigarette package there has the equivalent, 20 cigarettes is equivalent to 30, excuse me, 22, about 20 cigarettes are in this item, first one, but 37 milligrams of nicotine are in the Juul pod. It's similar to, then the Vuce pod is 82 cigarettes. It's equivalent amount of nicotine. And the most shocking was the Elf bar, as you can see, with 590 cigarettes. That's an amazingly crazy amount of nicotine. And youth who pick up these vapes, they don't know that the vapes themselves, they don't know when they've gotten to the point of what would be the equivalent of 20 cigarettes or five cigarettes. Because there isn't a little gauge on the vape saying when to slow down or when to stop. So they can end up in the emergency room, unable to breathe and having panic attacks and all kinds of other cardiovascular things can be going on because there wasn't like, it's not the same as the physical cigarettes. It's very misleading. So I was, again, advise you to see the show Big Vape to kind of get the inside. It's a series and it's excellent. So next slide. These vapes are, of course, as we have heard in the news and everything, they're addicting a whole new generation of... young people. And in Marin, it's first vapes and then nicotine pouches and then other items like cigarettes. So if you look at it this way, nicotine is affecting young brains. There is no good amount of nicotine for a developing brain. So youth and young adults, they're suffering from a lack of attention span, an inability to focus. It's hurting their learning, but it's also hurting their mood and their impulse control, things that you do not need to get worse when you're a young person. And in the research that we've had, the California Healthy Kids Survey, we found out that nearly half of 11th graders admit to having tried vaping, at least tried it once. And a third regularly use some type of nicotine products. These are 11th graders specifically. And nearly three-fourths of these 11th graders say that it's easy to get vapes, which is really scary. so whether they're getting from a relative or they're getting it from you know someone else this is very very concerning but as the word gets out about vapes next um they have not everyone has heard of xin and view all of these other brand names which are nicotine pouches they're little sachets in which they have a small they have nicotine in them and you can put it between your gum and your lip, and that way it's harder to detect. Like if you're a young person hooked on nicotine because you were smoking or using a vape, then you can tuck this in your mouth and be in the middle of class with no one being the wiser. And these are similarly destructive. There's no safe amount of nicotine for the developing brain. plus people also have said that oh they're going to help you to quit they're going to help you to quit smoking or they're going to help you to quit vaping but that hasn't really been what's happening so instead a lot of youth are using them both so in class for example they might be using the pouches and then smoking at a different time of the day when they weren't as worried about being caught And then about half of the pouch users are also vaping. So there's a lot of overlap there. And these items, these pouches are not approved by the FDA as a smoking cessation device. They're not the patch. They're not the gum. They're not the lozenge. They certainly are not approved for that use because it doesn't really work. So then, I would say that raising tobacco prices, which is the core of this type of an ordinance, is a proven attempt for not only reducing the tobacco initiation, you know, starting, and the consumption, but it's also been found to be especially true for youth, young adults, and low-income communities. next so some of the highlights of the fairfax proposed ordinance are similar to the one that was just passed on november 18th by the board of supervisors such as the pack the price of 12 dollars per item the pack size the end to all vapes and heated smoking systems some of which you might not have heard of but a brand name would be iquos as an example And then also discounts and coupons ending, no more promotions, buy one, get one free, download our app and get one for less money. And auto increasing the price from $12 to $1 more, in other words, 13, 14, 15, every two years so that it stays relevant and you don't have to come back to the town council. But one thing that was added, thanks to council member Barbara Kohler's suggestion, was to end nicotine pouch sales. That's in bold there on the slide. Why would you do this? Well, for the reasons that I was just talking about, where they're another thing that young people are picking up like crazy, and it's still maintaining that addictive cycle, addicting the whole new generation. And I should mention, too, that none of this is happening quickly. The ordinance that has been passed at the Marin Board of Supervisors level and any other ordinances that are likely to pass would probably go into effect for enforcement on the same date so that it wouldn't be different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. That's just the best practice. And that would be September 1st of 2026. So as you all know, next, the devil is in the details on things like this. You can pass all the ordinances you want, but if you don't enforce them, what's the point? So the first is for enforcement, I'll just mention we have a county contract that's been around for a couple of decades where they visit every single store in Marin, and they do the bulk of enforcement. we are hhs supports them and make sure that everything is like quarterly reports end of year reports meetings that type of thing so i can explain more about that if anyone has questions also we have wonderful quit resources and we're doing a huge ad campaign right now it's like across all different kinds of media you'll see it in the independent journal of paxa and You know, all the social media and the African American-focused post, it's called, the news group that has paper as well as online papers here. So we're doing all types of outreach to help people quit in advance of the September 1st, 2026. But again, this is a retailer bill. This is not a prohibition. This is not going to get somebody in trouble if they happen to still be addicted to something. It's not a gotcha kind of thing, it's a how can we help you. And with education, we're doing outreach to all kinds of youth and family and all the priority populations with our team of people who table, who give presentations, give out resources, and as mentioned, the excellent resources that are available on our website, such as Kick It California. So to wrap up, I just wanted to say that tobacco and nicotine are still huge threats to health and a financial burden for all of us. A minimum price ordinance with vape and pouch bands would protect youth. So whatever you decide tonight, I just want to thank you all. Thank you all for considering this important topic and know that the young people in particular have expressed to me that they are very, very concerned and I hope we'll be hearing from some of them tonight.

Thank you so much. Do we have any questions from the dais? Go ahead.

One. Does the ordinance cover cannabis?

Actually, no, there's nothing in this ordinance about cannabis. The definitions are very, very clear. That would be that is a different topic from this. And it is not it doesn't cover cannabis or alcohol or a number of other things.

So I know that I have friends that roll their own cigarettes. and friends that roll their own cannabis too.

Sure, they can call, yeah.

They can smoke cannabis okay, but they can't smoke regular cigarettes.

They can smoke regular cigarettes. This is not prohibition. This isn't a ban on your personal behavior. But if somebody is even the least amount interested in quitting, we have all kinds of wonderful educational and support services to offer them.

So this is really geared towards buying a pack of cigarettes at a store or a pack of cigarettes with a cigar.

Yeah, the retailers only. This is all about... It's similar to when you had the tobacco retail license that Fairfax put into effect. This is only talking about retailers selling or not selling something. And honestly, I think you have five retailers currently, tobacco retailers in Fairfax, and A number of them do not sell vapes or pouches at this time. So we're planning, we are gonna help out by doing visits to those five stores and we'll keep you posted. We're here to educate and to support. Thank you.

Thank you.

Council Member Garangeli.

What is the age limit right now, or how old do you have to be to partake in any of this right now?

Yeah, that's a really good question. You have to be 21 or older to use tobacco products. And if, for example, when the sheriff's department goes out and they do their checks at every single store, that's one of the things that they're checking to make sure that they're always... asking for ID, and that they are making sure that they know that they can do the math, they have a way to find out is this person over 21 before they sell to them. Additionally, there are these big signs that have to be posted that tell the rest of us how you can report a retailer if they sell to somebody under 21. That should be posted at every single point of sale, every single cash register that sells any kind of tobacco products.

Thank you. Go ahead, Barbara. I think I have a question, but one clarification. I believe the last time we did the tobacco retailer ordinance, active duty members, veterans could be 18. It's my recollection that that was in there because they were a special case, right?

Yes, I can't speak to that myself, but that, again, if that's true, that would be, it's consistent with still having to card people, still making sure that you've got, yeah.

And my question is, and I wouldn't mind going back to the slide where you showed the cigarette pack, the...

comparison to the vape yeah all the different yeah i would i wouldn't mind going back to that yeah yeah let's go back to that and i'm sorry i was um trying to look behind me but if we could go to that slide again for the equivalent it's the equivalent amount of nicotine so one pack of cigarettes just a question as we're getting there were the nicotine patches on there No, nicotine patches are completely separate. Those are still allowed to be sold.

No, I'm just asking, were they on that slide?

No, no. There were different types of vaping devices.

No. Okay. So the question is, do we have, I realize that the nicotine patches are much more, they're newer, but do we have a idea of what the equivalent is to, um, you know, assumption?

Yeah. Yeah. So, um, most of them are 12, uh, right around 10 to 12 on the high end. But I think, um, when you say 10 to 12 milligrams, sorry, milligrams.

And so when you compare that...

It's like a cigarette, basically.

So it's like one cigarette? Mm-hmm.

Even though... Yeah.

You see one pack is 22 milligrams.

No, this is vaping. So did you want to talk about... No, I wanted to know what the pouches were. Yeah, yeah. So that's not this slide. Jeremiah, did you want to tackle that one? It's all right.

We'll wait till we get to that. I mentioned that also the milligrams are at the top and then the equivalent in cigarettes is at the bottom. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so just a question. At least my understanding is the nicotine patches are also a little more dangerous because you're putting it right next to your mucous membrane, so it's immediately getting contact with your blood system.

Yes, and when we're talking about the strength of them, we also have to consider that sometimes people use more than one to get the nicotine high, and have been, the tolerance can develop, and you end up having young people that have a whole bunch of them in their mouth, and not to get into too much more of it, but they have people called Zinfluencers on social media trying to show how cool this is, celebrities and other people that young folks look up to using these products. And again, the whole idea behind it is to hook more young people so that you can replace the smokers and others who are no longer buying your products. So it all, there are a variety of ways that people use the nicotine pouches, but I do know that they're getting stronger and stronger and that overseas they've had some really strong ones. So Dr. Jeremiah Mock has in the past shown, like at the Ross hearing that we went to the other night, He has some visual aids tonight with him, and he can also speak to these emerging products such as the nicotine pouches and how he has been able to purchase some that were incredibly strong here in Marin.

So we don't have really a general sense of them at this time because they're really getting more popular and...

Then they are strong. They are strong. And it's like, like I said, you could kind of pop one after the other. Sometimes they even put them in liquid and drink the liquid, like a whole bunch of them.

Okay. Thank you very much. I have two questions for you. Thank you, Barbara. You mentioned like promotions or downloading. And that sparked a question for me as far as online purchasing. There's no regulation of...

Yeah, there's actually there are regulations at the state level for things like you're not able to mail flavors, even like flavored vape replacement cartridges. So because you can't sell flavors and you can't mail them in the in the mail. So there are ways to report people or companies or businesses if you find out that they're doing some of this shady stuff. But at the Marin County level, we are not able to, say, handle anything that's coming in through the mail. We do know that a lot of times they need to have a signature, for example. And there are a lot of other considerations. But this particular discussion is really focused on retailers and what we have control over.

Yeah, I was just curious what the controls are. And then as far as the communication plan to like, what is the county doing to for as far as outreach to the retailers?

Yeah, it's been really amazing. We've had a bunch of meetings recently with different retailers as well as different experts and being able to educate on how to slowly transition away from tobacco products to other profitable products not just because of ordinances like this coming along, but also because the rate of smoking is going down. It's decreasing, and we are doing better in Marin than many places, including the rest of California. So to be able to say you... that's not a reliable revenue stream. Would you like to look at some other possibilities? For example, produce. You know, when you buy bananas for 20 cents or 30 cents and then you sell them for a dollar, that kind of thing. We have actually written up a business plan with input from different counties and different tobacco retailers And I can share that with council if that would be interesting. But we will also be doing not only the usual compliance guidelines, which we send out in English and Spanish to all of the retailers. We send it by email and mail before the unannounced sheriff's visits, the compliance checks. But besides all of that, we're also going to be doing little mini videos. So there'll be a separate video, say, if we wanted to teach somebody, how do you make sure all your tobacco products are $12? How do you finish off, you know, and make sure that you're in compliance by September 1st and don't have any of the items that you're not allowed to sell after that date? And of course, other things like promotions, we would have to give them examples of the promotions. So not just the written materials that we send and the meetings that we have, but also these little sort of mini recordings. Yeah, we'll be reaching out to all of the retailers, all 136 of them to make sure everybody understands what's happening.

So the 136 is in the non-incorporated?

No, it's in the entire county. We're going to continue to train in the entire county as we've been doing on other topics related.

Okay. Thank you.

I think we're ready to open the... Could I ask a really quick question? Sure. So I just noticed that, so we're talking about tobacco products, but actually I think page three of section two, and then it says number two, that actually it's a ban on any electronic smoking devices. So that would impact other things you might want to smoke in a vape, right? So it covers other stuff.

Yes. And the heated, well, at the heated smoking systems as well, the ones that have like, it's sort of a mini cigarette that you put inside of a device.

Okay. That too. Okay. Thanks. Just wanted to clarify. For sure. Thank you.

Okay, let's open the public comment, public hearing. Does anybody in the room wish to speak? Hi there. You want to push the button and

Hi. You can pull that way down. It's pretty flexible.

Hello, mayor and council members. My name is Sayaguchi, and I'm here to speak in support of the tobacco and nicotine policy you are considering. I'm currently a student at Terralinda High School, and nicotine use is something students see every day at school. I've seen students use nicotine products in bathrooms, at lunch, and even in classrooms. and it not only affects them, but also the students around them. Nicotine is highly addictive, especially for young people whose brains are still developing. When these products are cheap, discounted, and easily accessible in our community, it's much easier for teens to get addicted. One really prominent nicotine product I see around my school is the oral nicotine pouches, like, for example, Zins. Oral nicotine pouches are easy to hide. They don't smell like smoke and are often treated like they're harmless, which make them easy to use amongst young people. The tobacco industry is intentionally marketing these newer products as cleaner and safer as well, hiding the fact that they are still highly addictive and cause detrimental health harms not only to our bodies, but to our environment as well. In my community, nicotine use seems casual and almost unavoidable in your day-to-day life, and this policy will help protect students, families, and the overall health of Fairfax, which ensures the safety of future generations. Thank you for listening and considering this policy to keep our community safe from the harm of nicotine and tobacco products. Thank you.

Good evening, Town Council and Mayor. My name is Rhett Crowett, and I'm a senior at Redwood High School. With the spring semester starting, it's a reminder of the importance of focusing on the health of teenagers throughout Marin and Fairfax. Every day, I see my classmates and friends vaping and using zinc throughout school, destroying their bodies and minds, all because they are addicted to nicotine. What my classmates and I see every day is reflected in local data. Vaping rates in Marin County sit at nearly twice the statewide average, and cigarette smoking rates are triple. From my personal observation, Zyn is now being used at higher rates than vaping, cigarettes, or any other nicotine product. Nicotine is in these products that have been advertised and marketed towards youth by a tobacco industry whose only goal is to create the next generation of loyal customers. Nicotine and the products that deliver it, such as oral nicotine pouches and vapes, carry with them many negative health effects. These include increased anxiety, depression, and irritability, tooth decay, gum disease, headaches, nausea, and a long-term dramatic increase in the risk of cancer. When I was two and a half years old, I was diagnosed with leukemia. And over the next three and a half years, my doctors gave me hundreds of medicines intended to save my life. These medicines, while helpful, also carried with them side effects that I live with to this day. While the side effects of these medicines are inescapable, the detrimental effects of nicotine addiction are avoidable. By voting to approve these policies, Fairfax would be acting decisively to protect youth and community members from the deadly and yet preventable effects of nicotine. These policies before you will, according to the existing research, decrease the chances for youth to begin using nicotine products as well as discourage continued use. Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Maybe to clarify, Zins are nicotine pouches. They're just one brand.

So just because we've heard a lot about them. Thank you.

Hi, everyone. I am not here to express any support or opposition for the ordinance, but I did just want to clarify a question that was asked regarding the amount of nicotine in oral nicotine pouches. So a single oral nicotine pouch can contain anywhere between two milligrams of nicotine all the way up to like 20 milligrams of nicotine. And that's just in a single little pouch that's being inserted, as Anita mentioned, between the gum and the lip. And so in comparison, that's significantly more than a single cigarette. The slide that was showed indicates that a single cigarette has about one milligram of nicotine. And you can imagine as somebody smoking that cigarette, some of that's just being burned off. So they're intaking almost less than one milligram of nicotine. compared to a nicotine pouch, which can have, as I said, anywhere between, you know, two milligrams and 20 milligrams in just one pouch. So I just wanted to add that in.

Thank you for your time. Thank you.

Hello. Oh, you have, yeah, there you go.

I submitted a written public comment. I hope you guys read it. I just wanted to provide an alternative perspective, particularly around vaping. There's a lot of medical literature that suggests Vaping is obviously less harmful than cigarette smoking. I'm curious as to why we aren't leading with banning cigarettes. The evidence that exists in the United Kingdom is much stronger than in the United States because it has been studied longer. But the National Health Service in the United Kingdom actually runs public health campaigns encouraging smokers to quit with vaping. And its success rates are much higher than methods like Nicorette gum. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, Todd Greenberg, downtown Fairfax. I'm in favor of things that are for public well-being. And while I agree with all the good work that's being done here, and I am personally anti much of tobacco and a lot of these products, I'm concerned about how the process works that this is following. And I wanna ask if the council would ask the town attorney how much this might cost Fairfax if Fairfax were to be sued for price fixing. By imposing a minimum price, it appears that it's price fixing. My concern is that while there's every good intent in this that it might be bad legislation, that also it might best be done on the state level. There is urgency to prevent future addictions forming, but this council or prior versions of this council didn't seem to have any urgency when there was meth smoking up at the encampment. didn't seem to have any urgency when there were other drugs being done up in the encampment. This is something that should be addressed. I highly believe it should be addressed, but I think it should be addressed most likely on the state level where the town of Fairfax wouldn't bear significant additional legal costs when it's already running amok in completely out of control legal costs. I'd like these issues to be addressed before this is voted on. Thank you. Otherwise, I want to reiterate that I am in favor of healthy things.

Oh, you want to press the button? Thank you.

Good evening, Mayor and Council. Pamela Granger, co-chair of tobacco, of Smoke Free Marin. I wanted to answer a couple of the issues that have come up. The last gentleman will be real happy to know that you would not be the first one to do a minimum price and minimum pack. There actually are six municipalities up in Sonoma County that have done that. and of course your own county has taken that. There are other places in the state, but those ones are right at the top of my head. Petaluma's right at the county line as a point. It would have been so nice when vaping appeared on the scene if that was the panacea, if that was the way that we could get people to go from smoking to vaping and that would be less harmful. Unfortunately, what we found out is it's more like jumping out of a 30-story window versus a 20-story window. Unfortunately, now it's been long enough that there are studies that have indicated that there are serious health concerns, not the combustion, of course, but the other chemicals that are still there are impacting heart. We already talked earlier about the impact on young people's ability to focus, the chances of mental illness and constraints along that line. There's no one way to keep kids from starting, but the particular policy has put together proven strategies for reducing youth use, supporting people who want to quit, and saving us money. And what about the environment? Oh my God, what it's doing to the environment. If you don't care about the people, think about the environment. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Pam. I just want to mention that Pam has been here every time that we have brought the smoking ordinance tightening and tightening. So thank you for showing up, Pam.

Good evening, Mayor and council members. My name is Jeremiah Mock. I'm a professor at the University of California, San Francisco, and I've been working on tobacco control and prevention research and policymaking and also looking at environmental impacts for about 30 years. So I want to share with you some information. First of all, with regard to the comment about the National Health Service of England's position on vaping, it's very much out of line with the World Health Organization's policy on vaping and with most of the other countries in the world. And unfortunately, England is now finding out that what many people predicted, which is that they're seeing an increase in youth smoking as well. So as young people get addicted to vaping, they cross over into smoking cigarettes. So with regard to the other comment about potential legal exposure, There are, I believe, 22 jurisdictions in California that have already passed the bans on the sale of vaping devices, and the minimum price policy is very well established. So there's been no legal action against any of those jurisdictions, and I think it's highly unlikely that your jurisdiction would suffer any harm. any legal challenges. Of course, I can't give you legal advice on that, but based on what we see. I want to just show you, I went to the parking lot at Archie William tonight because people may disbelieve that nicotine pouches are being used. You've heard the testimony from the students. That's 15 pouches in the parking lot just walking around actually at about five o'clock and they're very difficult to see. We know there's been a lot of wind and rain. Sadly, these products are being used, and I'm happy if you would like me to, I'm happy to show you what the products look like and how they're designed to look like candy that young people are very familiar with and accustomed to eating.

Thank you.

Are there any? Mayor, we have two speakers on Zoom. Okay. Our first speaker is going to be Mina, followed by John. Mina, you are unmuted. You may unmute yourself.

Hi, this is Mina. I have also communicated with Anita about this and encouraged her to reach out to the retailers. I support evidence-based public health policy, especially when it comes to protecting our youth, and this does deserve serious attention for the youth, but also adults use this as well. And I'm concerned that this ordinance is being discussed without sufficient Fairfax specific outreach. We have very few tobacco retailers or small locally owned convenience stores operating on thin margins, which is what I also mentioned to Anita. And, you know, while there's been county wide outreach and education, that's not the same as direct local. face-to-face meetings with specific businesses that don't always have time to attend these meetings. I believe the last meeting I saw was in the middle of the day on Zoom, or no, I think it was in person. I could be wrong, sorry. But a full ban on an entire product category just seems like a major shift for a small town with such a limited retail landscape. And, you know, I'm not convinced that this is the right place to be moving forward with a sweeping approach. I believe in Marin County, only one municipality is doing this. And, you know, I don't know if we should be the second, right? So I just urge the council to pause, ensure that meaningful, fair facts, specific outreach happens before final adoption, not just education after the fact, because we want to be sure that we hear all the voices. Because I love seeing all the kids from Terralinda and Redwood High School and Smokefree Marin, but not any of the local retailers. So I just I'm a little bit concerned. So, OK, that's it. Thank you.

John, you are unmuted. You may unmute yourself. You'll be followed by Bob.

Good evening, Mayor and council members. My name is John Ma. I was the 2018 president of the San Francisco Marin Medical Society. I represent approximately 3,500 physician members in San Francisco and Marin. I'm honored to speak in support of the Fairfax Tobacco Control Ordinance this evening. The San Francisco Marin Medical Society and the California Medical Association have extensive policy about the detrimental effects of tobacco products Tobacco use is the leading preventable cause of disease and death in the United States, accounting for over 480,000 deaths annually. Eliminating access to tobacco products would significantly reduce the incidence of lung cancer, heart disease, stroke, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and type 2 diabetes, among other smoking-related illnesses, and also lower the healthcare costs associated with treatment of health conditions related to the use of these products. The San Francisco Marin Medical Society believes it is essential to take proactive steps to ensure that tobacco consumption is reduced by adopting the initiatives you're deliberating tonight to protect the health and well-being of your constituents particularly youth both now and in the future our letter signed by our 2026 sf mms president sarita sethpathy is enclosed thank you for your leadership and i urge your i vote this evening thank you the next speaker is bob bob you're unmuted you may unmute yourself

Hi, good evening, Mayor and council members. I'm Bob Curry, co-chair of the Smoke-Free Marine Coalition. I want to thank the tobacco staff for their informative presentation and thanks to our fantastic youth advocates for their work and commitment to protect their peers from the tobacco industry tactics. I also appreciate your support as a council and the continued leadership on this issue by Councilmember Kohler. I began my work in tobacco control in the early 1990s, 30 years as a tobacco control staff and now volunteer, over three decades fighting the industry. They have the same tired message every time we try to protect our youth from their marketing genius. First, it was Joe Camel, then the Marlboro Cowboys, and hiring actors and models, sponsoring race car events, all to make the product look appealing to our youth. Every time we try to address a new tactic or a new product, they come up with another way to addict a new generation. This ordinance addresses many of the new products they are or will be heavily marketing. The current products they are marketing to the youth is brain-damaging nicotine products. Philip Morris is currently building a $600 million Zinn Pouches plant in Colorado, the largest in the world. Nicotine is highly addictive. Exposure to nicotine during adolescence may harm the normal brain development. Specifically, the brain will be impaired in the development areas which affect attention, learning, and impulse control. and it may prime the brain for addiction to other drugs. Please protect our youth and adopt this policy. Listen to the same old industry PR tactics. This policy helps us in our goal to change social norms and end tobacco use. Thank you for your support.

Thank you. Any others? Okay, we'll close public comment. I want to thank everyone who spoke, particularly our youth. It's really good to see you all coming out and advocating for policy. I have a question for, I guess, yourself. Are there other jurisdictions? We had a prison, well, first, let me say, the MCCMC forum, so which stands for the Marin County Mayors and Council Members Association, right? So there was a youth organization that presented in Corte Madera, I want to say in April or May of last year. And there was a lot of interest in the room from our colleagues across other jurisdictions. So I'm just curious if there's any other jurisdictions that have this on the future agenda.

I can respond to that by saying there has been some interest. And I did have a meeting last week with the San Rafael Enforcement and Police Department who were looking into what it would take for enforcement. And they were really happy to learn about all the different educational and not just education of the retailers, but trying to engage them to be part of the solution to transition away from these products, and we went into details on the memorandum of understanding by which, for at least two decades, the Sheriff's Department has taken on the enforcement of all of the local ordinances. Whatever passes, they will, and we'll help them, but they will have a checklist, and they'll be going in and doing those compliance checks and making sure that everybody is, everyone's adhering to whatever is passed in the county, As well as if somebody didn't, maybe they didn't read our materials or they weren't able to come to any of the trainings or meetings, then they would work with them and they would come back and do a follow-up compliance visit.

Yeah. And I just want to I don't know. And none of my colleagues on the council have teenagers. I do. Two of my three kids are teenagers. And I can tell you that for Archie Williams, the administration has identified this as a crisis and they have prioritized communications, action plans. They have. I think they have security cards in the bathroom. I mean, it is an absolute crisis. So while I understand the revenue impact to our small businesses, I think having... Our town is two square miles, and we have five retailers that sell this. It is without question getting into the hands of our youth. And it is a crisis for... You know, we have not heard any... public comment against this policy, with the exception of the caller. All of the written communications that I've seen have been in support. Has anybody else heard from the gentleman? Yeah, you had. Thank you.

Yeah, go ahead. Well, I want to say, first of all, thank you. Subsequent to that meeting in April or May, I met with Anita Raven Twilling, who was up front, and also some youth. And at the time, felt that it was good. I brought the tobacco stuff three times to this council. I think it's different folks. But we wanted to wait to see what the Board of Supervisors was going to do before we sort of stepped out there. And I also want to mention I've been talking to Anita quite a lot. There's actually seven retailers. We were texting back and forth. There are a couple who didn't answer the phone, their phones don't work, but Anita has assured me they will make visits to make sure. But I want to point out that the enforcement doesn't start until September 1st, 2026. And first I thought, why are we waiting? But I talked to Anita and there's a lot more about making sure that people have time to transition out, You know, it's not tomorrow you throw out what you have. So I think that's great. And I also want to say just the other thing that we've talked about and was reported in the paper that both Tiburon and Ross, who don't have tobacco retailers, just banned them. So there will never be tobacco retailers in either of those cities again. So we are the second after the Board of Supervisors, and I'm proud we're bringing this. I think this is so important for our youth, and when I heard about it with the time I met with Raven, Anita, and our youth, I don't think those folks are here today. Then I learned about... You were here, I recognize you, is I learned about Zin which I didn't know anything about and I thought, well we need to not have those. Those are really scary and we saw the size and it's really easy and Anita told me that one of the youth brought up the case where a kid put like ten of them into a Coke and drank them. So they're just too easy, and it seemed like it was a really good idea for us to ban those as well. I mean, it's just, unfortunately, the tobacco industry is just looking for new ways to get our youth engaged in these products. And some of the data that you showed about the health effects, the costs, It's horrible. And I have friends who've died of lung cancer. You know, there's so many things. So I am in full support of this. I think there is one change that our attorney made, and I don't think it came out in the supplement, but we can get to that. But I just want to say I'm in full support, and I think it's time. And another thing Anita and I talked about was making sure that the sheriffs will enforce our document that has the one difference, which is the nicotine pouches. There was a concern that they wouldn't because it was different from the Board of Supervisors document. and Anita has assured me she's making charts so that they know what they're looking for. So I think we can do this, and I think there's plenty of time to do the outreach that you discussed and also allow our few retailers to continue in business but not include these products and change the cost. Thank you.

Any other comments? Yeah. I just wanted to say thank you to Anita for coming and speaking with us, but also thank you to Barbara for just staying on this. I know you've been interested in this for a long time and really keeping track of how things developed. And I appreciate that a great deal. And of course, to all the speakers. I did also want to mention another health disparity, which is that people with mental health issues, particularly schizophrenics, a huge percentage are likely to smoke. And that used to give me a little bit of pause because I know that it helps them. Actually, it's like a way of self-medication that helps them process information better. But at the same time, it's also one of the factors that makes them have one of the shortest lifespans of just about... any disadvantaged group in the United States. So I think it's, you know, another group that would be helped, although, you know, it's always a little painful at first to make it less available is kind of important. And I do think the public health evidence is pretty strong. We got a large number of letters from professors at UCSF, et cetera, about this. And I just wanted to say, so it sounds like we haven't necessarily notified local businesses in advance, but that they would be notified. They'd have plenty of time to change their practices in time for this to be enforced. So I think that's correct, right? Yeah.

Thank you. Go ahead, Vice Mayor.

Thank you. So are we saying that smoking marijuana is not an issue with young people or high school-age children in Marin?

No, that actually is a totally separate topic. There are e-bikes, for example, can be dangerous. And that is a separate topic from what we're discussing, which is tobacco retail and youth accessibility, the availability of nicotine and tobacco products to youth. So, yeah, that is a separate topic. It can be yes and yes, this is an issue and that can also be an issue. But tonight we're only talking about I've only was presenting on nicotine and tobacco prevention, especially in terms of youth. Do you have a comment, Frank?

Well, it's interesting. You know, I I started smoking in college. and smoked for a number of years. And then our granddaughter was born and our daughter said, if you want to see your granddaughter at your own home, you quit smoking. She laid down the law. And I quit smoking. I haven't smoked since. So thank goodness for that. But, yeah, I'm going to support the ordinance. But I think we should go further. But that's just my thoughts.

Thank you. Any other comments?

Yeah. Yes. So. Well, first of all, great job by everybody. Appreciate your viewpoint. I've never smoked or vaped or chewed tobacco. I know people that have, and I've seen people not do well with it. But the bottom line for me in one viewpoint is there's laws that are made for the youth to that don't necessarily need to be applied to people that are 21 and over. That's kind of the real world. So if it's illegal for the youth to partake in these products, then that's what the focus should be. And I'm against more rules and more regulations and more enforcement of going in and snagging a couple guys. They should not be selling, by the way. They should be enforcing this anyway for the under 21. But I'm going to be voting against this ordinance because I believe that when you're 21 and over, you serve in the military, this is the kind of thing I think that it's your choice. And in addition, I've seen the marijuana problem. Last time I was on the council 25 years ago, marijuana was what everybody didn't want to happen. And the youth were getting it all the time. And it affected people greatly. And this town actually not only has one cannabis industry, dispensary but there's none in operation right now no cannabis well we improved one right but there's no well i think it's my turn maybe i'm not sure no i just want to clarify okay well there's one that's approved just recently just a month or two ago and there's one that we was that got shut down that was here for 40 years and um And I've seen some bad things with marijuana, believe me. Then there's other people that find some benefit to it. So next question is, what's next? Is it marijuana? What's next? Is it don't eat too much pasta? You might look like me. I mean, what's going to happen? The point being, it's not a joke. You can laugh. It's okay. And I think it's serious, by the way. I'm in a business where, unfortunately, sometimes we have to, and I feel I'm very apologize because I think you said your daughter. Oh, he passed away at 14. I thought it was your 14-year-old daughter, which by the way, I'm sorry for that too. But I've seen at least 17 families and 17 people have to deal with instantaneous death from fentanyl that I've been involved with helping people facilitate that. So I don't know, quite frankly, of anyone who's dropping dead from vaping, but believe me, I don't want my grandkids, I have a 13-year-old granddaughter, I don't want her touching cigarettes or vaping or any of that. But I think when you guys get 21, I think it's your choice. So that's where I stand. Thank you.

Okay, I'm ready to entertain a motion. I think we have one changed by our attorney.

May I just, so that we can clear up exactly, you know, what we're having, what we're doing here tonight. Let me read into the record what the ordinance is really quick. Sure. Okay, thank you. You see Section 1, where we are deleting three of our existing definitions because we're adopting better definitions. Section 2, which was new today, Chapter 8.44.2102. subsection i subsection one is hereby amended to read as follows number one any single cigar whether packaged for individual sale unless the price conforms to the minimum pricing set forth in section eight point four four point three four oh f as in frank That section deals with a potential conflict between the new regulations and our already existing regulations about cigars, as does the new Section 3, Chapter 8.44.210. I-3 is hereby deleted, and that section is just deleting language that says any package of cigars containing fewer than five cigars. This subsection I does not apply to the sale or offer for sale of a single cigar for which the retail price exceeds $5. And as you can see later on, we have a larger section. price. It's $12, not $5. So we then move to Section 4, and this is where we pick up the new definitions that we're adding in to our definition section in 844. And Section 5 is our new language where we're adding in

Janet, I'm very confused.

Section 4 is severability.

Yeah, you're looking at the old one. No, I'm looking at what was printed out, which I said does not include the changes that you and I... And I'm reading those changes into the record. I have to be honest. I can't follow what you're saying, so you have to take us through this. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not following the changes you're making. Okay, there are only...

I'm going through everything that you see, but also everything that... We added in today. I added in today. Okay, but can you start over?

Can I make a suggestion? Yes. So do you have a red line version of what we have in front of us? Because that might be helpful to do it that way.

I... So added two new things. So let me just say, look at what you have in front of you. And you see section one where it's getting rid of three definitions. You've got that. Yes. So there's a new section two. Right. And we're amending our existing language about cigars. And I read that part into the record. Got it. Okay. And then section three, we're deleting some of our original language about cigars. And I just read that.

There is Section 3.

You don't have it in front of you. That's what I added today, Section 2 and Section 3.

But there is a Section 3.

And I renumbered them. Okay, so you need to, so after Section 2. There's the Section 3, the one that we have, Janet. No, Section 3 is new as well. Chapter 844.210I3 is deleted. And so that's in our existing code.

And what is that section again?

844.02. Let me see. .210. Okay, wait a minute. 844.02. No, no, .210. I3.

Three. And that's deleted. Yes. And that's the one that has the inconsistent. Yes.

Both of these new two sections are dealing with the inconsistency about cigars. Okay. And then section four is you have it in front of you.

And it's now section four. Yeah.

And it is now section four. Okay. And so that's all the new definitions. Okay. And then you go to the new section five, which used to be three. Wait a minute.

Where's new section five? It's, it's our section three. Okay. Wait a minute. I'm, I'm still confused because when I go through this, we have section, you added a new section three and that's the deleting of 844.210I3 deleted.

I also added a new section two.

Wait a minute. Above that?

Uh-huh.

Wait a minute, but we already have a section. But we added the definitions of Section 2.

Right, but we have all those. Well, I renumbered them. So the new Section 2 is 844-210-I1.

But what about the 844-020 definitions?

Yes, it comes after it. I just inserted a new 2 and 3. Right after one.

Okay, so what is new section two again?

The new section two is chapter 8.44.210, I1, and we amended the language to talk about single cigars and to ensure that the pricing conforms for single cigars with the minimum pricing in our new section.

Okay, are you going to read that?

Yeah, the language is, for the new Section 2, Chapter 8.44.210I1 is hereby amended to read as follows. Number one, any single cigar, whether packaged for individual sale, unless the price conforms to the minimum pricing set forth in Section 8.44.340F. And so this is a conflict with cigars only that Council Member Kohler pointed out. And so we were fixing that today.

So then you have what was Section 2, Chapter 8.44020. Is that Section 3 now?

The new section, no, that's new Section 4.

you're moving the definitions all the way to four yes okay and and then the one that you had which is that so 8.844210i3 which is deleted that's another section three that's the new section three okay

And just when this comes back to us, can we actually get page numbers? I put them on there today. It was supposed to be what you got, but yes.

I do see page numbers, but I find it very confusing what we're voting on just because it's so reorganized.

And then you get to what was Section 3, which is Chapter 8.444, and that's now 5? Yes. Yes. And then that's it?

Yeah. And that is adding in the new part, right? And then you have section six is now what we call severability. Used to be four.

And then so severability is number six since what was section five is number seven effective date.

Right. Okay. Okay. So the only changes that I fixed today when I fixed the word about cigars are the new section two and the new section three that I read into the record. Okay. And they are amending and deleting language from our existing code.

And the reason that was done is it was in conflict with the new language.

The packaging of the cigars.

Right. It was old language that we added the third time.

Yes, yes. Okay.

Okay. So with that, I will entertain a motion.

I'll make a motion to... to move to introduce and read by title only, waiving further reading with the changes mentioned by Town Attorney Colson of an ordinance amending Chapter 8.44, Clean Indoor and Outdoor Air and Health Protection Act, smoking regulations by amending definitions, establishing minimum pricing for packages of cigarettes, cigars, little cigars, and smokeless tobacco, prohibiting the redemption of coupons and discounts, banning the sale of electronic smoking devices, heating smoking systems, and tobacco or nicotine pouches and imposing other requirements.

I'll second that.

I heard a motion Kohler and a second from Blash. Can we get a roll call vote, please?

Yes, Mayor. Council Member Blash. Yes. Council Member Garangeli.

No.

Council Member Kohler. Yes. Vice Mayor Ager.

Aye.

Mayor Hellman. Yes.

Motion passes. Thank you for coming. Thank you for presenting. Really applaud your work. Moving on to regular agenda item two, establish a town council subcommittee to collaborate with the Fairfax Open Space Committee on name recommendations for the wall property. Who is presenting on this?

I'll present this one. The Fairfax Open Space Committee created a subcommittee to focus on providing naming recommendations for not just the wall property as a whole, but specific trails in certain areas. So this item is being brought forward so the council can create a subcommittee to work with FOSC to further refine naming recommendations and do a little bit more research on what will then be brought to the council. So tonight you're just going to discuss creating a subcommittee. and that subcommittee will work with FOSC to refine the naming recommendations for the wall property. And appointing members to the subcommittee.

Okay, great. Vice Mayor, did you want to add to that? Thank you, Christine.

The They're also recommending that we provide some signage, and the county has some suggested signs, and I think Santa Fe has them too, as far as do's and don'ts in the open space property. Dogs on leash, no motorcycles, no mountain bikes on single track trails, things like that. And then there's a naming of some trails, and there was some concern expressed in our agenda meeting that perhaps the trails shouldn't be named by trail, that we might take on some liability if, in fact, we name a trail and it becomes publicized and it shows up on maps. So we're going to talk to the Open Space Committee about that, about those issues, those kinds of issues. We want to somehow include in the signage those who contributed from the Coastal, not the Coastal Commission, but the Coastal Conservancy, the County of Marin, um dr wall um and vice mayor anchor the uh um ted bright jessica green we've got we've got

I just wanted to reiterate that the point of the discussion is to set the subcommittee to appoint the council members to the subcommittee. And then what you're talking about right now is what will be talked about amongst.

It's in my report to the council as far as what the Open Space Committee did. So we're just going to recognize those who could do it. Ted and Diane Bright and Jessica Green and most for putting it all together. Somehow they're going to show up in a sign. Okay.

Okay. Council Member Kohler.

Yeah, I'm assuming that the subcommittee would be the mayor and vice mayor, but one thing I wanted to mention is when we were working on the wall property, at that time, the council appointed myself and former council member Catrano to work with the federated council Indians of Great Rancheria who are the federally recognized tribe on potentially some naming issues. So I would encourage the subcommittee, probably the mayor reaching out to them. They are the federally recognized tribe. They represent Coast Miwok. But because we didn't do that, there was a lot going on at the time. So just to make sure they're involved. Thank you.

On that note, I did speak with former council member Catriona. So he made sure that they got the survey and had the opportunity to. participate in that in that recent survey. Anyway, any other clarifying questions from the dais related to this before we take public comment? Sure.

I just was wondering if we had had any recommendations from FOSC about their desire to have, you know, whoever on the subcommittee. And then why would it be default mayor and vice mayor? I was just curious because I know that Council Member Kohler has worked on this for a really long time and seems like somebody who should be on a committee.

Just say a couple of things since vice mayor is the open space liaison. That's a great idea. And also dealing with tribes, they don't deal with low level people. So it's important to have the mayor involved. And

i'm happy to defer i did my work and i have confidence that things will work out very well so thank you for thinking i just wanted to say that and i'm i'm you know my original thought was that it would be council member kohler and vice mayor egger because he's the liaison but i understand your reasoning so thank you thank you for bringing that up okay um with that i'll open the public comment on this item

I taught Greenberg speaking I regularly attend the Fairfax open space committee meetings and despite as I understand it numerous requests from the Fairfax open space committee cheer. The town and most have still failed to provide transparent financials into this transaction. It's hard to make decisions when all the finances aren't there. I would request that this council provide every assistance possible to the Fairfax Open Space Committee and request of most for all of the financials of this transaction provide an audit report, have the finance director prepare an audit report for all the financials related to this transaction. Additionally, the committee, I would request of this council to authorize recording of the committee meetings which are held in this room where these meetings are recorded. It's a public meeting. The rest of the public should be able to learn what's going on in those meetings. Then to provide and present written reports, I would like the council to authorize and require the Open Space Committee to present written reports that are available to the rest of the public as part of the Fairfax Town Council meetings. There needs to be greater transparency in this town and such things as naming, the public should be aware of. They should not have to go hunt for the information. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other public comment in the room? Seeing none, let's move to Zoom.

Mayor, there are no speakers on Zoom.

Okay, closing public comment on item number two. Any other comments or deliberative thoughts before?

I'll make a motion. Okay. I'd like to make a motion to appoint Vice Mayor Aker and also Mayor Hellman to the subcommittee.

I'll second that. We have a motion from Council Member Kohler to appoint Vice Mayor Ager and Mayor Hellman to the wall naming property subcommittee and a second from Council Member Blash. Council Member Blash. Yes. Council Member Garangeli.

Yes.

Council Member Kohler. Yes. Vice Mayor Ager.

Aye.

Mayor Hellman. Aye.

Yes.

All ayes. Motion carries. Thank you.

Moving on to item three, our final regular agenda item. We will be discussing and considering town council boards and committee assignments for this year. And so on the flip side, if you have your paper packet, that's the list of the current assignments and

I would just mention... I would just mention two things. Yes, I will present the staff report. This is an annual... discussion, deliberation that the council has where we review your board and committee assignments. If anybody wants to give anything up or request for a seat at another table, this is the time to do that. It was pointed out to me that the MCCMC City County Services Subcommittee was suggested to be removed last year and the council all agreed on that. So that was my mistake for not removing that. And the BPAC committee should be under Council Member Blush as she is the liaison for that committee. So with that, I will hand over the discussion to the council to determine if there are any changes for this upcoming year.

Other than the subcommittee that we just formed. I have a recommendation. Okay, let's start with you, Councilmember Geringelli.

Yes, I would like to be on the Ross Valley Fire Department Board.

Noted.

I was an alternate, but there was no chance to serve.

Okay. Anything else?

Okay, I'd like to point out a couple of things. I am not interested in giving up the fire board. It looks like I will probably become the vice chair. And I was the alternate for a number of years before I became the full board member. A couple of things. There's the Ad Hoc Pedestrian Trails Subcommittee. I've been on that for a number of years. It may be something that Vice Mayor Egger might want because there is a member on the Open Space Committee who, John Reed, has been the lead on pedestrian trails for a number of years. So it might be something. I'm okay with giving that up. Measure K Oversight Committee. I only took that because nobody else wanted it, and it hasn't met in my memory ever since I've been on it. So I think we still need to have it because we still pay on that, but there's no new bond issuance. And the only other thing I would—so I would like to keep what I have. Just a couple of changes. is the second one, Community Development Block Grant Committee, hasn't been called that for a while. It's called the Countywide Priority Setting Committee. And Marine Clean Energy is now called MCE Clean Energy. So just for clarification. Thank you.

I think I don't have, I think I'm your alternate on Barbara on MWPA.

No, actually. Am I not? You are my alternate on MCE and council member Blash is my alternate. Okay. But I used to be, I think. You were, you used to be. And I'm the vice president of that now.

Okay. And the MCCMC Homeless Subcommittee has disbanded. Is that right?

I don't know if it's disbanded. It hasn't met. I sent another request to Rachel Kurtz. Chance Gushano was like the co-chair. There hasn't been a co-chair. It hasn't met in the entire time that our new council members have been on the council. But I think it's pretty important that it does meet for various reasons, largely because there's been a lot of changes in policy and changes... at the local level, but also at the federal level, and at the state level. So I wrote another email to her asking to meet Mark Milberg, and I were going to do that, and unfortunately he passed. So I want to hold on to that one for a little bit and see what happens with that. I mean, I want to say that for the first two years I was on the council, I think I was on not a lot of boards and committees, but I was an alternate. And so I just went to or watched online those meetings so that I was up to speed once I transferred over to those committee positions. And I do want to hold on to my committee assignments. I'm okay with letting go of some of my alternate assignments, but I feel like I've kind of halfway through some of the work on some of these. So I'd like to stay on them.

Yeah, I'd really back to the pedestrian trails. I would really like to see some movement. We heard from former council member Reed that, you know, he was going to kind of spearhead some of that. And I'd love to see it because it really has been little to no energy on that one. So if any.

And I'll take it on if nobody else wants it. But it seems like, well, you know, somebody else might be a better.

The mayor has been on it. So there's two members on it. I'm suggesting if Vice Mayor Egger.

who's the open space liaison, isn't interested.

But Mayor Hellman has been the other member. And, yeah, we never met last year, and it's something we want to continue.

Mm-hmm. Any comments, Vice Mayor, from you?

Well, you know, I wasn't going to ask for anything. I was just happy with what I was doing. So, I mean, if you want to give something up, I mean... How often does that trails committee meet?

Well, it hasn't.

That's the problem.

So usually we meet once a year. And what we do is, I mean, but we didn't last year, is we go through a priority list of what we can actually take on. And it's not a heavy lift. So I can tell you that. And the one thing you have to be careful of, there's many encroachments. on a lot of them. And so at one point several years ago, we're going to try to see if we can unravel those. But I just noticed that another city that has these steps and trails, they just focused on the ones that they could that didn't have encroachments. And usually former council member Reed has a pretty good feel for the ones that you could actually work on. And there's not a lot of money that we spend on those. So I just, I mean, if you're not interested, no problem. Council Member Blasch will go on it. But I do think it needs some movement.

Yeah. Do you have issues like folks building a fence across the public? Oh, yeah.

There's several. I mean, I have my old notes from the past, if you would like those. that talk about the encroachments there are several that people have there's one that they have stairs i mean you know and i i kind of what we've been doing and what we wanted to do years ago was start writing them letters about these encroachments we that didn't happen or that did and it didn't produce anything

But I would just say it also identified a couple of that didn't have those issues. Right. And so those were sort of the clearest. Yeah.

And that's what we've tried to do when we have Matt take on the ones that you can take on that are not crazy.

Some stairs around or some bridges around, things like that.

Yeah.

Pedestrian stuff. Okay. Yeah.

And if you're interested, I can share my file with Mayor Hellman.

I've got enough files. I know.

I'll share them with Mayor Hellman because I have great notes.

Okay.

All right. Sounds great. Any other comments before we open public comment or questions, I guess? OK, I'll open public comment on item number three.

I, Todd Greenberg, downtown Fairfax, I'm going to suggest that you table this until the next meeting or the meeting after that or call a special meeting, as there seems to be no council committee member rotation policy in place here. San Anselmo deliberated at length after one of their councilwomen was repeatedly denied the ability to be on the fire board. And it took quite Sometime in public comment, if you want to keep your meeting short, you might just look to send and Selma for a well conceived council rotation policy. And here's why I'm going to suggest that you need a formal council rotation policy. A, I think it's inappropriate. That either councilwoman Hellman mayor Hellman or Barbara Kohler remain on the fire boards anymore for the following reasons. They did not ever provide for a Promise Tool Loan program. They did not take steps to mitigate fire hazards at an encampment that almost burned down downtown Fairfax with arson for years. They've banned gas powered garden equipment, which limits the ability to properly practice vegetation management. There is a complaint that was filed against Councilwoman Hellman with the FPPC about conflicts of interest and undue influence related to her position on the Rouse Valley Fire Board where she received $25,000 as a consultant for the Fairfax Simon Seminole Children's Center. It's inappropriate that she continue in this position of influence and create fire hazards in downtown Fairfax. Okay, those are two examples. Thank you.

Mr. Greenberg, the FPPC sent a letter advising that claim was bogus, and I'd be happy to share that with you. And if you could limit your remarks from disparaging myself or my colleagues, I would greatly appreciate it, per the decorum and the protocol that I read at the beginning of the meeting. Thank you.

That was pretty snarky. Looking at the assignments, one thing that jumps out at me is Flood Zone 9. We should be trying to get out of Flood Zone 9. They've collected, what, over $55 million, and they've spent $2 million. And I believe that they're trying to get a 60-year bond measure put on the ballot. Why would you trust them? They've spent $53 million on what? Coffee? And I think we also need different representation for transportation authority of Marin. I think that looking at Wiener's influence and what he'll try to do further on is to create or reduce what's required to be a transportation hub. Fairfax has one bus, or is it two, which come on schedule, but it's no hub. And if you're going to continue to fast track high density, high rise building in Fairfax, then we're going to have to see major road changes, transportation changes, et cetera, which is only going to worsen the already existing bottlenecks that occur and increase the impossibility of being safe in our town if there's any type of disaster. You can't get out. You won't be able to get out. We will just be sheltering in our houses as the fire leaps from hilltop to hilltop at thousands of degrees. Think that you're going to survive that? I don't.

Thank you. Are there any hands raised on the Zoom?

No, Mayor, there are no speakers on Zoom.

OK, thank you. We will close public comment. And does anyone have anything else to raise?

I just want to raise that I've been on the fire board for one year and I served as the alternate for several years. So I would like to stay on. And I think it takes a while as an alternate to come on. And so I'm giving up. Vice Mayor Egger will take on the pedestrian trails. I can stay on Measure K Oversight Committee because I didn't see anybody jumping up and down for that.

Mike, are you interested in that? I know you're always concerned about finances and spending and so forth.

Which one again?

Measure K. I think you were on the council when Measure K was...

You want to? Well, you already said no one's met. Well. Actually, I think we should go through this and see which ones don't really do anything. Like that one. But no, that's okay.

Okay.

I wanted to be on the, I used to be the president of the fire board. I'd like to be on it again.

Well, I'll make a motion to approve what we've discussed, and you can keep me on Measure K oversight.

Is this a voting on item, or is it just a discussion, an agreement?

She's voting, but I could go over the suggested changes.

Yeah, why don't you do that? That'd be great.

So from the top, Marin Clean Energy is MCE Clean Energy. That's being changed. The Community Development Block Grant Committee is the county-wide priority setting committee. Councilmember Kohler is stepping down from the Pedestrian Trails Ad Hoc Subcommittee and Vice Mayor Ager will be taking on that role. council member blash is a member of the bpac committee that is on her list and as recently voted on mayor hellman and vice mayor agar are now the appointed subcommittee members for to work with fosk for the wall property naming i make a motion to that effect

Yeah, I just with a friendly amendment. Is BPAC on here?

It is. She just mentioned that it's not on here, but it could be.

Okay. So that's my motion.

Is there a second?

Second. Second.

We have a motion from Council Member Kohler and a second from Council Member Garangeli. Council Member Blash? Yes. Council Member Garangeli? Yes.

Yes.

Council Member Kohler? Yes. Vice Mayor Ager? Aye. Mayor Hellman? Yes. All ayes. Motion carries.

Terrific. Moving on to consent. calendar number four the council can approve all items on consent calendar in one action alternatively any council or staff member can remove items for separate discussion and voting public comments for consent calendar items are taken collectively not item by item during this period speakers may address any item on the consent calendar with each speaker allotted up to two minutes and limited to one comment session Does anyone have any clarifying questions on any of the four consent items before we open it up for public comment?

I've got a quick comment. On the financial report, the type is pretty small, and the print is really light.

So print is a little bit lighter in this packet because there was a toner saver. default selected. Um, so that's the only reason that the font is a little bit lighter throughout the entire packet.

But this, I think he's right in that it is really light. Um, it almost looks like it's printed in gray and it's not as light as, I mean, it's lighter than other items in the packet.

Yeah. So that's all, it's not actually that the, the financial statements are not printed in black font. Typically. I think it's like a So maybe a green color when the report is produced or blue so it's even lighter because the toner saver option default was selected.

I think is the size and the prints color. I mean, I'm the one who brought up the idea that this whole packet was really light. But, um, is the size of the font and the way it's like, there's a header that's black and then whatever the other color is beneath that, is that what comes out of the software? And there's probably no way to change that. So, but I think if we get away from that toner saver, it might be better.

Yeah. That was an accident. Okay. Any others? Hearing none.

Let me just make a quick... Oh, sure. I'm sorry. I'm not going to pull anything tonight, but I do have a question. And, you know, I'm trying to track the legal costs. And I noticed that at the last meeting, it kind of... We were told that... that some of the legal outside of town attorney was showing up in a non-departmental. But I was just trying to see if there was some expenses for either BVK or other outside. I see Bertram is in here. And then there was another law firm. And it wasn't a lot of money. It was like $3,000, I think. But it'd be good if we knew where all the legal was. It ought to be in one place. And I don't think Non-departmental is a good place for it. I think we need to have a legal section so we can see what it's costing us.

I appreciate the comment. Of course, our finance director, Michael Vivret, cannot be here tonight because he has a standing commitment on Mondays, and this is an unusual day. But But regarding the history of how the non-general services legal expenses were put into the non-departmental, that is something that we talked about as a group in this past session. sorry, strategic planning retreat. So everyone here on the dais was there at that time. And the suggestion was made that in order for you to see more visibly what was BBK and what was the general town attorney, that that be split so that you could see that more easily. And at the time that was favored by the council. Um, so we can certainly go back, um, each time, as you know, that we, um, make a change, then it can be, you know, um, a little bit more difficult to track.

And, um, so that does not, let me just make sure, sorry to interrupt you. So, um, We made the decision as a council for the similar feedback that we want to isolate the litigation costs that are separate from just start the day-to-day city attorney fees that we incur for preparation of this meeting and all the other legal issues. consult she does for us. So we isolate. So is there anything in that non-departmental or whatever it's called? Is there anything else in there besides litigation costs that would be like noise in the numbers?

Under the attorney's fee line? No, there would not be.

Okay. So Frank, are you looking for a cumulative? Is that...

Basically, yes. If someone asks me, how much has Fairfax been illegal? If you ask San Anselmo, they'll give you a number. But I couldn't give anyone a number. I don't know how much we're spending on legal.

We can certainly provide a cumulative number. And also in the spring, we'll be bringing the mid-year financial report. And that might be a good time to talk about sort of where we're at. Yeah.

Well, whatever the non-departmental is, we budgeted $1,140,000 and we've spent $739,798. We've spent 64%. That's through November. But I don't know what that fund is.

You're right. So those numbers are much higher than we expected because we have much more litigation than we expected. And we've given updates in closed session on each of those litigations. And so if you were to look at one of the recent closed session agendas, you would see the case numbers for all of the litigations. There's nine current.

active. Can I just mention, I think what Vice Mayor Egger is talking about, we discussed making sure that we showed the differentiation between Janet Colson's charges and all these other charges. We didn't discuss putting those in non-departmental. And I think that's what he's talking about, is that is there some reason where we can't have it under legal, but have the breakdown? And I think that's what makes more sense than something called non-departmental, unless it said non-departmental outside attorney fees.

That's why I was asking if there's anything else in the mix. Otherwise, you can relabel it if it makes more sense.

Yeah, I know we did experiment with some different ways of showing it and this is what we came to, but that doesn't mean we can't experiment more and get to something that's better for clarity.

I think that would be great.

And just to state the obvious, cases don't run by fiscal year, right? So you need a cumulative, if you really want to look at it, Frank, you need to look at it against what we forecasted for the budget. But then it's really important to look at how much one particular case cost us total, you know, I think is important. So we can talk more about that when we meet at either our retreat or fiscal planning session. So thanks, Frank. But needless to say, it's important that we do what we can to mitigate our legal risks. All right. I will open the public comment on consent.

Todd Greenberg, downtown Fairfax. I'd like to ask that items A and B on consent calendar be pulled, A and D, pardon me, namely the financial reports and the audit report as they relate to each other. That being said, to follow on Councilman Egger's comment, to add a little information here, non-departmental currently adds up to over a million dollars, 1.1 plus million dollars. Why not sort those appropriately and put the legal in the legal everywhere throughout here rather than it being in more than four different places? Why not in the income statement as is elsewhere in the financial reports, have a percent year to date. So you don't have to calculate how much has been spent so far this year in expenses for each group. So you can easily go to each category and go, wow, we're X amount over budget again for five years, five out of the last six years in legal. Now, your explanation is, wow, we can't anticipate how many cases we're going to have. But I and other people would contend that the town's been very poorly managed and continues to be poorly managed with no legal cost controls in place. It's my understanding that the council doesn't get to vote on how the town attorney proceeds on things. They're just informed that the town attorney is doing certain things. And the town manager and the town attorney confer, and it's a runaway train. And that's why we're getting sued so much, in my opinion and others. So not being able to talk about the audit and how little is being spent on roads when the town's legal costs and increasing liabilities are running amok is really detrimental to the well-being of everyone in the town.

Thank you. All right, I don't see anyone else in the room. Anyone on Zoom? All right, we'll close the public comment.

I move consent.

I hear a motion from Lash. And I'll second. Second, Kohler. Can we get a roll call? Yes, ma'am.

Just a quick comment. Sure. You know, to respond to Todd Greenberg, Next month we're going to have mid-year numbers and we 50% into the year to be a lot easier to figure out where we stand. Next month with this with with with with this report rather than to doing it from the just November so next month will include first half of the year and I think that's that's that I will not be in the March meeting.

At this point, I can't promise February or March, so it would be February or March. I was thinking March. Okay.

Well, we got to November now in January, but we won't have December and February? No.

I just, I need to check in with the finance director to make sure, you know, the timing changes with the holidays, et cetera. But yeah, definitely want to bring it to you as soon as possible. Thank you. Okay. Can we get a roll call vote, please?

Yes. Council member Blash. Yes. Council member Garangeli.

Yes.

Council member Kohler. Yes. Vice mayor Ager. Aye. Mayor Hellman. Yes. All ayes. Motion carries.

Moving right along council reports and comments. I think that is rather moot at this point. Um, I'll move on to the adjournment in memory of Ernest, Ernie Carlson, Robert Gelfie, Jerry Gale, Barbara, Mary Davis, Nan, and John Elam. Meeting is adjourned. Thank you.