Zoning Hearing Board - Regular Meeting

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right. Gold leading door. I pledge to the flag to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I roll call. Okay. Mr. Seabbo present. Miss King present. Miss Gunen present. Mr. Dawson present. Mr. Johnson present. We have a quorum. [snorts] We need approval of the minutes for November 11th. Motion to approve. Second. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. Voting. Voting an announcement of outstanding decision. continue hearing and not [snorts] hearing the case appeals to be heard. I can't hear you.

Uh Jeff, could you speak up? The court reporter is having a hard time hearing you. Hear me now. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Sorry. Swear them in the appeal. You ready?

Okay. Sorry. was trying to make sure we were on the right page here. Okay. Um, if you guys want to come on up, uh, the following appeal will be heard. This is appeal number 13328 by Leslie Felic on behalf of Moxy Properties LLC. This is concerning a property located at 1335 West 38th Street, index 19-6133-208, located in an RLB residential limited business zoning district. The appellent is requesting a use variance for a proposed to tattoo parlor business per section 204.5. Tattoo parlor is not a permitted use.

Okay. Your name and address. Well, first you got to be sworn in. Thank you. And when you court reporter, would you swear the can you please raise your right hand for me? Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes. Okay. Just make sure you um get closer to the mic. Okay. Is that better? Yes, that is. Okay. Okay. [clears throat] You're good. Okay. Is your partner going to Are you Are you going to testify? Yes. Well, then raise your right hand, please. Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

I do. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Show's yours. All right. Hi. Um, I'm Lesie. I'm the owner of Speak Up a little bit, would you please?

Yep. Can you hear me a little better now? There you go. Um, I'm Lesie Folic. I'm the owner of Andromeda Studios. Um, I've been open for almost 7 years now. Um, in recent times, um, my current location on the west side of Yura, kind of close to the airport, um, the lease has come to the end there. Um, and we have, uh, looked into other areas. Um, we worked on something at the Colony Plaza, but that kind of fell through. Um, and since my lease is coming to an end, um, Sarah here, who owns Moxy Hair Salon, um, thought that it would be a really nice fit for that space, my my business. Um, so we're looking to gain the variance at that location on 38th Street. Um, [clears throat] I think it would be a really nice space, um, being a little closer to the east side for both my west and east side clientele. Um, and I don't know what else to say as far as that or answer any questions that you might have regarding it. Um, I can say I've been open for almost seven years now. I've been a tattooer in the area for over almost 15. Um, and uh, born and raised here as well. So definitely um, looking to just improve my community wherever I can in my business at all times. Um we're definitely more women centric like to have a um very um safe environment for people coming in. Um my environment there is a little bit different than your typical tattoo parlor as you would kind of think of it. Um and I think we've done a really good job in the last handful of years. So

what are your typical hours of operation? Um it's not much different than what the um hair salon is right currently. Um, usually no earlier than 10:00 a.m., no later than 6:00 p.m. Um, typically it's like 12:00 to 5:00. That's what our hours are, but we do some appointment only type um, things. I work with the cancer wellness center. We do um, areola and nipple tattooing for like postmasectomy. So, sometimes I'll have like private se private sessions for those type of clients. Thank you. have anything? I don't anything. No. Any questions, Selena?

No. Is there anybody else here to speak on behalf of the variance? I will chime in. You have to come up and get sworn in. Well, let let her go. Oh, okay.

Hi, my name is Sarah McMillan. I own both Moxy Hair Salon and Moxy Properties. Moxy Properties LLC owns the building and it's currently being leased by my hair salon company. So, I've owned the building for 3 years and it is my second salon location. My other location is on West 8th Street by Frontier Park. And uh why I reached out to Leslie to rent the space is I just feel like it I'm kind of spread a little thin in my business and I just want to consolidate down to my one location. And so I think her business ethics, morals, everything very much aligns with mine and I think it would be a fantastic use of space and an asset to the city to have her business come to the city. So

any questions for me as the business or the property owner? Okay. Was there somebody else that might have you get sworn in? You can have a seat, ladies. I'm going to swear this belly in. You swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do. Okay. Make sure to speak into the mic. Thank you. Your name and address?

Yes. My name is Brad Prince. Uh my home address is 5370s Grand View Boulevard. Uh, the building I own is right next to the building that they want to put the tattoo place into, and that's at 1343 West 38th Street. Okay. So, the Go ahead. Okay. So, the reason I'm here is I've owned that for about 16 years, just shy of 16 years. I'm opposed to having that uh that type of business at that location. Um, a few of the reasons I have is it's still a residential and commercial business area up there. Um, I feel that's a a factor. Also, um, there's a school about a half a mile away, less than half a mile in that area. And in general, being there 16 years, I just feel the functionality of that area works very well the way it is. I mean, we have um we have counselors there, we have attorneys, we have chiropractors, we have notaries, there's a appliance store down the street, a restaurant, and several insurance companies. And I just feel they all work very well. Now, as a side note, I have the property right next door and it's I have it well marked. I do not want parking in this lot. And several times I've had to go next door with the present business and tell them to not park in my lot. I have not towed any cars yet or I'm putting notes on. I really don't feel there's probably enough room in their parking lot. That's why they're parking in mine. And I feel if another business comes in, I'm going to be constantly out there monitoring that or have to enforce it.

Any questions from the board? What What is your business there? Like the property you own, is it a residential house or is it a business? Sorry, I can't hear you. Sorry. I what I asked him was um what use is his property there? Is it a business or a residential home? So at the present time I do use it for well there's a lot of storage there at the moment on a personal level but um it was a business which is no longer functioning but I am a sole proprietor. I still am a licensed massage therapy and I've been doing that for almost 28 years and I still use it part-time. Ed, any questions?

I'd have questions for the previous own the owner. Um, let's Well, why don't we why don't we finish up with we come back. We switch back to them. Um, do you have any questions for him? I had one or two. Go right ahead. Okay. Um, so your your primary concern is um parking. That would be the first factor. Um, I I just don't feel it flows with what's in the area as the other businesses I mentioned earlier here that are in there. Did you have a problem with the salon being there? No. What do you think is going to be different about this?

I just don't feel it it's most businesses are, how do I put this? Uh, I just don't feel it's a good fit for the area in in just general. I don't I don't know how to be more specific than that. Um, you know, I I just uh I I don't like the thought that there's uh more people coming and going. I I don't know what's going to be like the hours operation and stuff. I mean, well, she said that the hours of operation are generally going to be between 12 and 5. Okay. But maybe sometimes 10il 6:00 p.m. Okay. Is that parking?

No, those are normal hours. But part uh I didn't know that till I came in here today. But in general though, I just the parking is definitely one of my first concerns with that. I'm going to constantly have to be reinforcing it because I'm doing it more than I'd like to right now. Okay. So, with the with the parking issue, you guys have separate driveways, right? Is it just people mistakenly parking in yours? Thinking I don't believe so. I see the same cars there sometimes or what? It's pretty obvious there's separate entrances. And then they would have to walk over grass to get to her building as well. Okay. Yep. Thank you. [snorts] If

you guys would come back up so Mr. Dawson can ask you some questions.

So I there is a specific time frame that he is talking about. Last year I had Angela's roofing come and redo my siding at the building and it lasted about five days, five work days and unfortunately their trucks are huge and they did take up our parking lot. Uh his the gentleman's building has been vacant for about a year and a half and so I did have a couple employees park in his lot because there is no on street parking on West 38th Street but that was last November and it was 5 days and we have never parked there again. I can assure you. I have 15 employees between my two locations and our working hours are 9:30 in the morning till about 8:00 p.m. And so the current state of that building is has far more traffic and more coming and going of clientele and the public than what Leslie is her business structure is. So, if that's the gentleman's concern, I really don't think there is anything to be worried about with the transition to her business.

How many parking spaces do you have? Two, three, four, about nine. And how many employees does the business intend to employ? Um, we only have four artists altogether. So, if we had um four artists as well as four of their clients all at the same time, which is very rare because we are appointment only. So, we try to schedule accordingly. Um, we'd only have eight cars at the max at a time. There's also, um, alternative ways to park in that parking lot on the side of the building to save even more space.

Yeah, there is a gravel lot before. And like I said before, Angelos's had their truck trailer, which took the dra the gravel area up on the uh, east side of the building, as well as the employees, a couple of them, the Angelos's employees, a couple of them parked in the parking spot. So it so could you could you hold that slide for a second? Could you pull that back? Where's the gravel area that you're speaking of other than the parking that is indicated?

It is right to on this photo it would be to the right of the building. So where it says 43128. Yeah, that's a graveled area. So unfortunately during the time that there was construction, I mean all of that was taken and the majority of the parking lot and I wasn't there when the gentleman came over and asked my employees to move their cars, but they did immediately. There was never any issue past those days last November. This past November,

last year, November of 24 is when it was. But there hasn't been issues since. And like I said, that building has been vacant for quite some time. We didn't we didn't think we were imposing anything because there is no on street parking. But once he said, "Do not park in my lot," we totally respected it and never did again. You indicated that you're going to have four employees, which would then have, I guess, four people coming to see those employees. Sure. So that's eight.

Mhm. Is there a waiting list or is there do you anticipate more persons coming at a time? Somebody if I'm anticipating coming and I'm waiting, where do I wait? If four of us have already in the lot and four of you are already parked, where do I where do I go? Well, I mean, there's nine spots, so that's an extra car already. If there's eight people, um, because there is overlap once in a while with appointments. Um, but like Sarah pointed out, there is also a gravel area that my employees could easily park in as well. Um, yeah.

And like I said, I've I have numerous employees and we always some of my my clients double book and things like that and we usually don't have issues. It was a very specific one week last November and I understand it's private property and he was very upset that we used it. So, but is not a an ongoing thing. I don't foresee it being an issue with her business. Well, I think it's important to add now that we know we can definitely be respectful of that as well. You know, that's not going to be a problem whatsoever. Um,

my current space, we actually share a parking lot with um residential tenants and so we have to communicate with them as well, you know, when to be able to use those parking spaces and such, you know. So, just just as a point of clarification, do you do walk-ins? We uh we rarely do walk-ins. We're mostly an appointment only studio. Um we do call aheads to indicate if we have time. Um but no, we don't we don't um advertise as a walk-in studio. Yeah. Anything else from the board? Anybody else to speak and be Thank you.

I have question for the owner. You said you were there for how long now? Um, I purchased the property August of 2021 or 2022, I'm sorry. Yeah. And we opened Moxy Hair Salon opened its second location September 15th of 22. And you said just it's been active. Yep. For the past, it's active two years. Yeah. As of today. But with the current state of the economy and stuff, I just feel like for my business, it's it's better to consolidate and just go back to the one location that I have near Frontier Park. So, it hasn't been an issue about renting it out, finding a tenant cuz you were the tenant.

I've been Yeah, I'm the tenant, but I've been looking for about a year to I mean, not publicly. I haven't posted it for rent, but just like talking to my realer and stuff like that. And and then Leslie came to me a few months ago discussing how she wanted to move her location and that's when I made the decision that would be best for my business to consolidate and I reached out to her first. But it is a very specific size and shape like it it would be very difficult. It would be very difficult to partition to make it an office or something. It has vated ceilings. It's a converted home. In 1991, it was converted to a um commercial property. And that owner took out the second floor and vaulted it. So, it basically is just like one big open room. So, perfect for what she wants cuz it's all white walls. It's very beautiful. Looks like an art gallery. But other than a hair salon, which are closing all the time right now, or something like her business, like a tattoo studio, I think it'd be very difficult to find a tenant that would want that setup of basically one big open room.

Thank you. Anything else from the board? But thank you, girls. Thank you. Come, come right up. name against Are you sworn in? Not yet. Not yet. No, I'm not sworn in. All right. Well, [clears throat] I'll be sworn in, please. Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay. Name and address, please.

Kathy Schoff, 2437 East 43rd Street. I am very familiar with East 38th and West 38th. Um, and I lived on 38th Street on East 38th Street for many years, but 38th Street from east to west as far as you go is pretty much more commercial than it is residential. And uh I just drove past there yesterday, that area, and there are businesses across the street and businesses where they are located. And um I have never been to Moxy Hair Salon, but um I do uh get my hair done um down the street at Mirror Mirror, which is on 38th Street as well. And I affirm womenowned businesses and the days of uh tattoo parlors being uh a no no is obsolete. Uh my daughters are both in their 30s. It is a form of art and it is an experience. It's not um to be uh looked at in a negative way. I think it's a wonderful thing that she wants to move her business from Mil Creek to Eerie.

At one time for quite a while, the Burton Plaza was empty a few years back and it drove me nuts every time I drove past it. Empty, empty, empty. and it just sort of brings the whole neighborhood down when there's nothing in buildings that could be occupied and could be affirmed for our city. So, um thankfully Burton eventually um did accommodate and there are businesses there. But um I affirm women businesses. I affirm the art of the tattoo experience and um looking online and driving past um I would definitely um think it would be a fine thing.

Thank you. Thank you.

Anybody else to speak on behalf of the variance? Anybody here to oppose the Is there anybody here that would like to speak opposing the variance? Last call. Okay. So, the only thing that I would add is uh to remind the board that over uh the past year and a half or so, we've had several uh occasions to review uh applications for variances with regard to tattoo artists wanting to go into RLB districts. And uh uh I think it was just within the last probably 2 or 3 months uh we had an extensive discussion about that uh where uh Mr. Czech from the solicitor's office also chimed in. Um we had looked at it as a uh because of the the lack of definition in the zoning ordinance itself as a permitted use uh under under the theory that it was a a personal service. But as Mr. check pointed out that it could also be viewed as a professional service both of which are permitted uses in the RLB. Um and uh based on those in the past you have approved uh the requests.

Thank you. Call for the vote or you have a so in that vein the motion would be to is the variance necessary or it's unnecessary relative to it's an already an approved use. you you you would you would be voting to say that it was a permitted use. Okay. With that, I'll make a motion that this um this appeal today is a permitted use under RLB. Second. Second. Madam Secretary, we'll call for a vote. Okay. Mr. Seabolt, um approve. Miss King, approved. Miss Gunen, approve. Mr. Dawson, approve. And Mr. Johnson

approve. Okay. Five to zero. Motion's been approved. Thank you. Thank you. Merry Christmas. Thank you very much.

What else do we have on our agenda today? [clears throat] Excuse me. Um there is no unfinished business, but we would just go down to the new business with I think Art is going to handle for us.

All right. Sure. So the the first uh the first thing is just a note. Um if you remember, I'm sure the uh the Perseus House situation uh where again we looked at the zoning ordinance and and determined that the actually determined that the variance that they requested was denied because they didn't need to seek a variance. Um, some of the folks who were here speaking in opposition to Perseus House going into that property in the first place filed an appeal. That matter went up recently for a status conference in front of Judge Walsh at the Erie County Court of Common Please. Um, and uh, Judge Walsh issued an order on the 14th of November um, dismissing the appeal. And the reason he dismissed the appeal was because the there was nothing there was nothing for these people to appeal if that makes sense. You know, typically if you come in front of the zoning board, a variance is either granted or it is denied. And if you're unhappy with the result, then you file the appeal. Well, these folks came in speaking in opposition to the variance. The variance was denied. So they had nothing to really appeal from. They weren't what we would consider to be an agrieved party or what the court considered to be an agrieved party. Um so in discussing in discussing that with uh with these individuals um as long as well as uh the uh uh folks from uh Perseus House uh and and myself present, the judge decided that he was going to dismiss their appeal. So that matter is done. It says that the appeal was dismissed without prejudice.

Theoretically, that means that they could try to reinstate it. But the issue there is, uh, they've got the opportunity or Perseus House is going to have to come in front of the planning commission. They're going to have to, you know, get a building permit and stuff like that. Um, so to the extent that these folks feel that there's something wrong in that process, then they could seek an appeal. But as a legal matter, I don't see how they could try to um uh re reinvigorate or resurrect the zoning appeal because the issue is going to remain the same. They opposed the variance. We denied the variance. There is nothing for them to appeal.

Okay. Okay. Thank you. Anything else for the good of the order? Um, I had reached out to to a solicitor for a contract. I have not received any response back at this time. So, we are still looking for a board solicitor for 2026 as today is Art's last zoning hearing board meeting with us. So, thank you for your service as well. I've I've appreciated the opportunity and it's been a fun little run. Well, thank you, Arthur. So, you're not coming back. I will not be back in this chair. You might be someplace else. I might be someplace else, but I will not be back in this chair. Well, I hope you have it. All right. Well, that said,

no, I have a question. So, what happens if we don't have a solicitor? If nobody's applying, you need to have a solicitor. I was going to say I'm going to defer to your solicitor for today. Yeah. [laughter] So, the city I I assume the city solicitor is looking for someone for us.

Well, I mean, so it's really not the city solicitor's job. Um, obviously, you know, somebody like that would would would be vetted um by, you know, by by the mayor's office and by the solicitor, but the ultimate approval really comes comes from from you folks because, of course, the the solicitor for the zoning hearing board cannot be the solicitor for the city. Can't work for the solicitor for the city. Can't work in the same law firm as the solicitor for the city. It's got to be separate because sometimes the position of the solicitor sitting up here for the zoning hearing board is going to be different than the position for the city. So, um it's really got to be somebody independent. Um again, I I I don't know if you'll hear back from the individual that that that we had discussed and I'm looking for other folks that I could recommend. Um but you do need to have a solicitor that is required by state law.

It is uh the appointment comes from the mayor's office. Is that what you're saying? No, no. the appointment comes from you, but I mean obviously the mayor's office is going to have somebody take a look and see, you know, is this is is this the the the quality of person that we want, right? And if there's anybody you suggest, please just shoot me an email. I have a letter already drafted ready to go out to those individuals and we'll just you can all you can also do an RFP if you need to. If I need to. Thank you. So, but yeah, no, thank you guys. I appreciate everything. Okay, I'll hand out new I'll hand out some new business cards for you in a second here. Motion to adjurnn. Second for that. Second. There you go. Merry Christmas every holiday.

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