Zoning Hearing Board - Regular Meeting

[Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. N. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat.

[Music] [Music] Heat. Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. [Music] [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] [Applause] Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. [Music] [Music] Heat. Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. [Music] Hey, Heat. [Music]

[Applause] [Music] I'm going to read the role call. Call the meeting for today, October 21st, a Tuesday, to order for the city planning commission. Okay. Um, Chair Richard Spiker here. Colin Russ absent. Um, Commissioner Jason Morurich here. Commissioner Douglas Bazari present.

Thank you. Director Jackie Spry is here. Assistant Planner Secretary Moore is here and our alternate member Carl Anderson here. Here. Thank you. And we'll amend the roll call box to include Carl from now on. Okay. Um first item is approval of the September 16th, 2025 minutes. Uh anybody have any revisions uh to the document as distributed? Hearing none, I will make a motion to approve. Second. A motion and a second. All in favor signify by saying I. I.

I. I. Cooper. Any public correspondence or comment? We have not received any public comment or correspondence. All right. Thank you. Uh the old under old business um we'll note that the salo amen amendments updates uh were approved by city council uh there at a previous meeting and are now in effect. Um you want to talk about it here or talk about it later? Um I think in the department updates.

Okay, we'll do it at that point. Thank you. We'll move on. Um, new business. We have a bunch of uh subdivision and land development actions. Uh, the first one is for Ganon subdivision involving 2030 West 6th Street. Um before we get into those, can I ask the commission to make a motion to amend the agenda to include one additional Okay. Um project.

We had a late submission um after the agenda was uh finalized and distributed. So we have a motion to uh modify the agenda to add this item. Mr. Mr. Chairman, I would make a motion. Thank you. Second. Second. All in favor signify by saying I. I. I. I. I. So, we've added uh another item. The last item. Excuse me.

All right. First item uh Ganon Subdivision, 230 West 6th Street. Uh my name is Jeff Kder Ker Architects and also representing Historic Eerie Preservation Trust. Can you hear? Okay. Yep. Yep. Um just correction on the minutes here. It says 230 West 6, right? That's not the property. Cooper, is that did Yeah, we can we can change that. What is the D? It's um 203

203

uh 203 West 6. So, um, Historic Era Preservation Trust has been working with Ganon to acquire the Carter Shannon House on the corner of 6th and Sassifras, which is known as 203 West 6th, and also to acquire the Frederick Dreky House at 221 West 6th. And with the removal of the Worly Hall dormatory this summer, um, and our recent moving of the Olds Norman house, which was at 216 West 7th, to now be at the old address of Worley, which is 211 West 6th. Um, all that's been going on and part of this bigger effort is to move some property lines around. So, what we submitted was on the corner um 203 West 6, we're moving the existing south property line north, making that lot a little smaller, and the part that we're um taking away from 203 is going to be combined into the Shuster Theater property. And then at two what is the old worly 211 we're moving that property north the same amount and that land is being then combined with the old old Norman house property at 216. Um, so we're just kind of moving some properties lines to the north and that is kind of letting that's the final piece needed to make this assembly of buildings um, work for what the trust wants to do and what Ganon wants to do.

Okay. Do we have a drawing that illustrates those? [Music] Yeah, it wasn't in the packet. No. Yeah. Okay. So, they're moving those lines to the north. Okay. Mr. KDR, it's about 20 looks like 25 ft. A little over 25 ft. Correct. Yeah. They're they're two different

35 ft there. Yeah. So, Okay. Right. Thank you. Cooper, just a minor clerical. Can you send us a copy of We have duplicates of the cover sheet in our email? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. All right. Anybody have any other questions or comments related to that? Doug, anything? If not, nothing for me.

Okay, thank you. Uh, can we have a motion uh to approve the repot? Uh, I'll make a motion. Second. I will second. Motion in a second. And of m Mr. Chairman, uh, and that is with the correction of the address 203. Yes. Thank you. Okay. All right. All in favor signify by saying I. I I Thank you. All right. Thank you.

Thank you. Next item. Uh Eerie Trinity Church Subdivision, 3952 Pine Avenue. Is there anybody here to speak on behalf of that parcel? So, Cooper, what's going on here?

I don't see anybody unmuting online either. Sir, read this as the residential parcels being separated out on the corner to the South west corner. That's what it looks like, doesn't it? They don't need to be here, right? Do it.

I I think the applicant was supposed Okay. It's helpful. I don't think it's I don't think it's required that they be here. It's helpful. I take no issue with it other than their absence. Yeah. I Well, I'll make the decision then. We should table it until request that someone who can explain what's going on, what they intend um shows up. Was the applicant supposed to be present?

I don't have any emails saying that they would be here. Um I don't know. Do we know anybody that's reviewed the SAO language recently? Well, it's not required. I mean, obviously representatives here to present their application. I feel like we did them like five years ago without I feel like we did them before like we were doing them five, six years ago. I don't think they were all here. I

Does anybody have object to any of the commissioners object to uh any of uh this action going forward? Anybody willing to make a motion to approve? I'll make a motion to approve that subdivision. I think it's clear they're just sub separating that house out. If you look on on Google, there's a driveway that connects to the church that's off of that property line of the house. Um I would take you think

Yeah, because we process is that the applicant should be here to present and if there are questions from the commissioner, they should be here to present the application. Mr. Chairman, uh my my apologies uh as this being my uh first voting meeting. U but has this applicant not been here at prior meetings to to um I don't think we've had any prior meetings with this applicant. Um I don't think they're required to be here and I can tell you that the city has also done its internal review and no issues were raised with this

subdivision. Who's the surveyor? See that? Jason Robert.

Verdantis. Yeah. Do you know that? That's the That's the Gotcha. Well, we have uh a motion on the floor. Um is there a second for the motion? Got it. Hold on. All right, Jake.

I just have one comment to make just for the benefit of the commissioners. Just so you know, I'd spoken with um the the owner, the property owner quite some time ago. intention is to separate the house from the church property, right? And just to let you know that, you know, I've done it review of looking at the subdivision. There's no issues with setbacks and, you know, lot size and things of that nature. So, it it passes those end zoning tests. Just want to make sure you guys

Okay, sir. Is there a second for the motion?

M Mr. Chairman, before uh I we move forward, could we uh and I know you're saying they're not required to be here, but could we move this down the agenda for the time being and see if we can reach the architect and ask them at least to get on the phone? U is is that would that be a proper procedure? But just to update you on since this is your first meeting, the salo process that we're going through. This is basically our second meeting of of administering this process since it became official again.

So it's hard to uh hold anybody to previous attendance uh when for the last six years this process didn't really exist. So yeah. Um objection to moving on? We'll circle back at the end. Y to the end. All right. Item C, Mercy Center Subdivision, 8:16 West 26 Street. Um, is there anybody here representing the Mercy Center Subdivision? Um,

I'm here. Can you hear me? This is Steve from Lairs. I'm via Zoom. Yep. Okay. Thank you. Uh, can you guys see the drawings in front of you or do you want me to share my screen or how what's easiest for you guys? Cooper's going to share it.

All right, we can see your the plot. All right, hang on one second. We are proposing a subdivision. If you can see this on the screen, we're looking to subdivide 816 West 26th Street. Uh it's the Sacred Heart uh facility here. Um we're proposing to separate it into two lots as you can see on the subdivision plan that I put back in front here. uh with a ingress and egress easement going down the center which is centered upon ah the driveway here coming off of 26th Street. That easement kind of corresponds with that routing through there.

Uh it'll it'll create two lots which separates the church from the school. Uh, and ultimately this second lot I believe is being sold to the Mercy Center for Wentw. I believe it's been reviewed by the zoning office there and I don't think they had any objections to what is shown on the screen. Okay. And I'm happy to answer any other questions if you guys have them. Thank you. Any questions from the commissioners? uh position where I have to abstain my vote. Um Mr. Chairman, I I'll make a motion then. Thank you.

That we move forward. And I will second it. Have a motion and a second. Um. All in favor signify by saying I. I. I. I. Any abstensions? Uh Cooper, for the record, I have to uh abstain from this vote. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay. Item D, McKinnus World Rings Land Development, 1533 East 12th Street. Good afternoon. Good afternoon.

Cooper, if you want to bring up C400, probably a good plan. Uh, yes. Uh, my name is Steve Caruso. I'm with uh, Civil and Environmental Consultants and I'm here representing Matt Ericson with McKinnus Road Rings. This project is a 42,000 square foot building expansion uh located on the back side of the McKinnus facility uh site as you can see there on on the drawing. Um this project is going to include proposed paving grading storm water conveyance utilities. project will also consist of a an emergency access drive around the back of the building as well as an emergency or emergency a fire hydrant loop around the entire facility. So, the biggest push for this project is going to be the historical fill um move um excavation on on the site. If you want to go to C 100. So, as you can see on the right hand of the drawing, the historical fills from the excavation from past um expansions. Um that material is going to be placed on the west side of the site. Um, as part of this this project, we will also be submitting a a general MPDS um, submission to the county conservation district. I've been in touch with them throughout the process, our design process. Um, so they're on board with everything that we're proposing. Um, if you can pull up C300, it shows the overall grading of the PL of the site. As you can see on the west side of the site, that's where the ex the excess material will from the excavation will be uh placed. And as I mentioned, we'll

be submitting our MPDS package in approximately uh two weeks. As part of this uh project, um as far as the storm water management goes, there's an existing detention basin on the site. That basin was actually designed to handle a full buildout of the entire uh site. Um I believe in three phases. this particular project would be phase two. Um, so we're able to meet uh volume, water quality, and rate uh requirements with that existing basin. And all the information on our storm water uh report was submitted to the city. Uh as far as the utilities go, uh we're basically extending all the u existing utilities to the new building. Uh there's existing electric, water, sanitary that would be um extending to the existing building. Um everything is going to be on site. We don't anticipate any public taps in the streets. We are coordinating with uh Eerie Waterworks on a on a new uh hot box for the fire loop that is required. So we're uh coordinating with them on that. Like I said, all the utilities are going to be private on site extensions. And I think that's about it. Any questions?

I have not start anything. Motion to approve. Okay, we have a motion to approve. I would be on to second. Okay, a motion and a second. All in favor signify by saying I. I I Thank you. Thank you. Thanks to Mc Minis rolled rings for their investment in the city. Okay. Gone through the items on the agenda. Do we have the the last edition? I mean, yeah, the one that we forgot. The one we added. No, no, I didn't realize.

I remember what it was. Yeah. And who what's the the one we added? Royal Homes. Yes. Um I don't know if like to come talk about the project. Just a little introduction.

Good afternoon. Good afternoon.

My name is Donald Krenshaw. We are the builder developer for this particular piece of property. and it's been a long time coming. The city of Erie had stated that these plans had to initially go to BIOU before they could actually be reviewed by the city. And that's the procedure right now. And that was done back in 2023, early January. After taking the plans to BIOU, they reviewed them and stated that we had to consolidate this piece of property. after consolidating the property took place, changing it from two lots to one lot. Before they could actually be reviewed, BIOU had to actually stamp them and bring them and I bring them to the city of Erie. And the city had stated before they could review them, after I brought the property, the plans here, that BIU had to sign them after BIU addressed us or required us to consolidate these plans after they were brought here to be reviewed by the city. They then were taken back to BIU in order to be actually signed. After I took the plans to BIOU in order for them to be signed, I brought them back to the city of Erie after taking them out there after

originally being here for BIU to sign them. BIU signed them. We brought them to the city. The city then reviewed them and after the city reviewed the plans, they had stated the property had to be now subdivided back from where it originally was. Instead of two lots, now three lots. I had the property then 30 days ago subdivided back. After the property was divided back, we brought the property the plans back here again for the city to approve these plans so that we would be here today. It is a very frustrating procedure and very stressful as being a builder developer of the city. I feel I think we've built more affordable housing than any other individual for-profit developer in the city of Erie to go through these exercises bringing plans here having them first before they could be looked at taken to BIOU BIU addressing us telling we have to consolidate after consolidating bringing them to the city the city reviewing them saying that no you can't consolidate the lot you have to subdivide the lot then having to subdivide the lot and bringing them back here, gentlemen. It's very, very frustrating as a builder developer. I appreciate the fact that those have done what they've had to do to get me before you today, even to amending and adding it to the procedures for the review. And as you look at the property, we've originally owned the property for probably 25 years. As a builder developer, the project has been funded and approved downstate for four years. We're now at the point where we can

close. And I just hope that the subdivision, which I call it a replot really, but because of the new SOLD, whatever the acronyms are for the procedures and what we're going through, I can appreciate it and I can understand it. But I want the board to recognize as a developer and wanting to build even more affordable housing and to be a devel developer in this community, we do need to get things coordinated a little bit better, maybe change procedures of instead of going to BIOU first and having them review plans that may need to be reviewed by the city first from a zoning standpoint to see if it meets the requirements. ments because obvious in this case we were directed to do something that had to be redone and at a re a very decent cost we've had to pay to have it subdivided correction consolidated and then subdivided. A developer shouldn't have to go through those challenges. So as you look at the property, basically two lines was added on the original overall size of the property. We will be developing three buildings. One building will be four units of town houses. The next site in the middle is four unit of town houses which will be eight town houses for lowtood income people for rental. The far west property will be a threeunit handicap livable units. So at the end of the day, the city will receive 11 new properties in the city. We're a for-profit developer, so 100% of tax bases always been. We're building affordable housing in our community. We've built over

60s something houses in this neighborhood. We've built over a hundred something in other neighborhoods, but it does seem very challenging when we have to go through these kind of steps and the most recent being this that I would just ask that the planning commission board maybe look at the procedures and how they're addressing things that go to BIOU and especially if they go there first and BIU makes a recommendation that may or may not be correct that the de builder developer needs to have a communication ability between the two agencies to reduce challenges like we've had to have on this one.

Well, Mr. Grenaw, I I can't speak to the rigor you've been run through, how it came to be. Um I think that uh the implementation of the new salo um will ought to improve the process and and I think as a commission we're committed to um moving as quickly and as expeditiously as we can with respect to um approving the necessary changes necessary. So, you know, I it sounds like you got run through the ringer for uh no good reason that I can understand and I would uh uh personally I would apologize for that. Um I think it's uh uh it impedes the ability of uh the city uh to have critical needs addressed. You know, I think you have a long history of of doing that in in the city. So, thank you for that.

Um, to deal with this issue, does anybody have any questions regarding it? No problem. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Anderson,

uh, Mr. Crunch, I appreciate uh, the frustrations that you have and you're sharing those with us today uh, and working through those frustrations to continue uh, this important project for our community. Uh I also want to thank the professionalism and the staff of the people uh here at city hall. Uh I know that ultimately in the end we all have the same objectives uh to move forward, move our community forward in a positive way uh and for them to be able to bring this to us uh to be able to amend the agenda uh today. So I want to recognize uh those efforts as well. Um could you just uh state the size of the project that that you're undertaking?

Well, the entire development that has been approved and we're heading to our closing and why the importance of this and being on the agenda today is the construction and renovation of 26 units of affordable housing. Um the development cost is a little over 10 mil and at the end of the day there will be 26 people and three of those individuals will have perfect livable accessible units. So when you look at the overall size of the project, it's 26 units of new affordable housing that will take place starting hopefully here. November 15th is a closing date that we're shooting for with all approvals so that come next year by the end of the year you will have 26 new uh affordable housing in the city of Erie.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, you're welcome. Uh I'll make a motion to uh approve the subdivision as presented. Second. I have a a motion and a second. Um, all in favor signify by saying I. I. I. I. I. I. Thank you very much. You bet. Best of luck. All right. So, now having gone through all the items on the agenda, we're back to item B, the Trinity Church subdivision. Any chance to Yes.

get a hold of anybody? Yes. Can you hear me, gentlemen? Yes. Um, good afternoon. Good afternoon. I'm uh Shad Sandell. I'm the surveyor here at Berdantis. Okay. Can you explain uh what under consideration for the subdivision? Sure. Is there any way you all could bring it up? That'd be great.

Yep. All right, it's up now. Can you see us? Can you see that? Yes, I can. Okay.

So, if you could see that small lot to the lower left hand corner, correct? That was the rectory for the church. Um what they have decided to do is to subdivide off the rectory and sell it outright and then to then sell the church property um you know separately. Okay. Has this been looked at by zoning at all? Do you know? Yes. Yes, it has. So it complies with all the Yes. setbacks and requirements in that respect. Yes. Correct, sir. It has.

Okay. Uh make a motion to approve. Another motion to approve. Second one on the ship. Is there a second? I will second. We have a motion and a second. All in favor signify by saying I. Be before we vote, Mr. Chairman, I I just want to thank uh our staff from the planning commission uh and the executive director for making the ef extra efforts uh on behalf of this project uh to ensure that we can keep it moving today. Yeah, thank you. Agreed. So, all in favor signify by saying I. I. I. I.

I. Motion is passed. So that'll be done. Thank you. I appreciate you all, gentlemen. Thank you very much. Thank you for being available. Absolutely. All right. No items under resoning, weather waterfront conditional use, or blighted property designation. Um, next item would be the Department of Planning and Neighborhood Resources updates.

This image for me first if you can find it. If not, I have it printed out. Good afternoon, commissioners. Good morning or good afternoon.

My name is Jackie Spry. I'm the planning director for the city of Erie. Also want to give a shout out to Amy Francis who was um who actually got the um surveyor online for that last project. So thank you. Um I I want to start off by just giving you a little bit of a recap from the APA American Planning Association PA conference that four staff attended last week in Harrisburg. Um it was from October 12th through the 14th and the theme was planning the keystone shaping a resilient future. So um Cooper Moore went the assistant planner Hannah Oleski Liz Reyes both from neighborhood resources and I went as well um represented a pretty big contingency for the city of Viri. um not a lot of uh representation from the east side of uh the state, but we were there and there were others from Mil Creek. So, as well as an elected official was there from Mil Creek. So, um I think we had a a pretty good representation. Um the conference uh I felt was um we we were able to learn a lot and bring back some really good ideas to the city of Erie. I just wanted to share with you a few of the sessions that we went to that I think we will be continuing to research and delve into and also um have several uh connections and meetings around these. Um we went to an uh a session called artificial intelligence and community planning enhancing efficiency and effectiveness for public sector planners. went to a work affordable workforce housing. What you may not not what you may not know um

went in went to a downtown Harrisburg active transportation infrastructure tour. Harrisburg does have a bike share program and um also was able to see the kind of active transportation that that Harrisburg has that hopefully we can um bring into our city. um went we had a very interesting lecture by Jeff Sigler who's a consultant in Pittsburgh about civic pride and civic apathy and then lastly went to a um workshop I did on energy and what you need to know and what you need to do and that had to do specifically around data centers and zoning ordinance um amendments. So, that's something that I hope to be talking through with you in the next couple of months. Um, we are at a time, we are at a critical time right now to start talking and thinking about this in our community, especially that we're on the on the lake. Um, some of the other staff also went to some very interesting um sessions on trails, parks, which were right now in the parks plan. Um and I know also community engagement which is very much part of our team. So just wanted to give you a good update and hopefully next year um you'll be it's in Bethlehem maybe some of you will join us for that conference. Next up I want to talk about the SAO amendments a little bit and um Cooper if you wouldn't mind passing this out to our our uh our commissioners. this one. Two more. That's That's one. That's I have three copies here.

So, uh the SAO amendments as you know we worked on for many months. Um it was a internal effort along with Michael Baker, our consultants who worked through these amendments with the planning staff, with um public works and engineering and with our zoning uh zoning staff at the city of Erie. Uh we had multiple meetings with the planning commission. We had um uh we had a 30-day public review of the amendments and then we had a public hearing also at our council meeting. Um then there was a requirement of two votes. Um and we had no uh we had no uh public feedback other than I think one comment from a resident that we brought forth to the planning commissioners. Uh and then on October 1st, the city council voted uh and approved to adopt the amendments in full. And um those amendments went into effect immediately. Uh there are times that an ordinance will wait 20 days and then an enactment will occur after the 20-day period. this amend these amendments went into effect um immediately and the mayor signed them actually on October 6 because he was um out of the office. But that being said um we are following the uh the amended salo what you have in front of you and Cooper I don't know if you are able to share it with the public but this is this will be up on our website by the end of the week. Um, it says at the top of the page, does my project qualify as a major or minor subdivision? But before I

before I get to that, let me just also mention um that replats, which was which was in um the previous SAO, uh was a process that is now obsolete. So, you're either a minor subdivision or a major subdivision land development. And so everything that we um that comes through the planning department, the first stop is zoning. Obviously, if the zoning is not isn't is not meeting the ordinance. If if it's it's not complying with the zoning ordinance, then that applicant would most likely need to go in front of the zoning hearing board. We would not receive anything until it passes the zoning test. That's really the first stop. So, um, anything that you see that comes in front of you always will go in front of our chief zoning officer and our and our zoning uh and our our zoning team.

Um, and and we'll be will be in compliance. Um, however, for the community, for developers, for the architects, for the surveyors, this is our threshold that you see in front of you and this is in the SAO. It says, "Does my project qualify as a major subdivision, major land development, or a minor subdivision, minor land development?" Um, if you have five or fewer dwelling units, you're considered a minor subdivision minor land development. If you have 5,000 square ft or less, you're also considered a minor. six or more dwelling units is a major and 5,000 square ft or uh or more 5,000 ft or more is considered a major subdivision or land development. So, what does that mean? And essentially what that means is that if it's a minor subdivision, you can go right to final plan. It still will go in front of this the planning commission but you you'll go right to final plan review and it will come in front of planning commission. If it's a major then it is required to have a preliminary plan go once in front of the planning commission and then submit a final plan and again go in front of the planning commission. Now you as the commissioners you know that you're delegated the authority to approve these plans. So it does not have to go in front of city council. So the buck stops here, right? Um, uh, so I just want to explain the change that that's quite a quite a large change for for the threshold in terms of what we are now reviewing, what is now going to be presented in front of the planning commission and what will be transparent to the community as well. Any questions on that? First and foremost,

uh, for me, the only thing I would say is I'm one of the my questions after listening to Mr. Krenshaw's ordeal was the flowchart. Um, we're getting to that. Yeah. So,

sure. Um, so that's the first step though is in determining where you lie and what the process will be. Now, and I know the the people watching can't see this, but again, this is going to be this is in the SDO. These workflows that you have in front of you are in the SDO already. We will have these posted by the end of the week on our website. Um Cooper, I think, is going to probably pop it up here from the from the website. Um but uh as you can see these are the workflows that are required per uh per state regulations. Actually we're in compliance with all state uh municipal planning code um uh requirements. So the minor subdivision as you see um a pre-ketch plan is optional optional but encouraged. Um we ask that we have some kind of internal meeting from there. Uh uh you would prepare a final plan. That final plan submission would go right to the planning department of course with a zoning review first and foremost and then there 30 days for the city engineer and county planning to review that land development. Within 90 days it has to be posted and um come before the planning commission. Of course, that's 90 days that we might not need, but that's the allotted time that is given to the city to get to get it onto the planning commission agenda. Um and then for a major subdivision, again, a pre-ketch plan meeting, which we've had already, um for a developer to come in front of the planning commission

to explain the project, you know, give some preliminary drawings, um make the planning commission aware of the project. We encourage that. And then a preliminary plan would be submitted. Again, that would be 30 days for review, internal review by the um different city departments and the county planning. And then within 90 days, that doesn't mean we're going to have to have 90 days, but we're given 90 days to get the um the plans to the planning commission. And then again, a final submitt is required and the same time period is um is given for a final plan. So the process um not only do we have workflows but we then have checklists which which are also part of the amendment and in the SADO as well. Uh Cooper has um thankfully simplified the check checklist both internally and for um developers for other for applicants that are coming through this process and will be given out to an applicant so that everything is on the plan when it's submitted and we can move forward hopefully quickly and seamlessly. So, Cooper, do you want to add anything? Cuz you're working you're working in this right now and you're in the thick of it. If you wanted to add anything to it, what I've mentioned,

I have this. Did I cover everything? Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, um

just a few other uh reminders about the SAO amendments. The duties were shifted from the zoning department. um to the planning department. So all applications, all payments will be received by Cooper Moore who is the secretary of the planning commission. Um also like I mentioned the replatting um was amended from the existing from the 1989 SDO and is now rebranded if you will as a minor subdivision and will require commissioner's approval. Um and then uh also the major subdivision and major land development. Um this is has a checklist and uh the process is much uh much more spelled out and clear. There are less gray areas in the new amendments. Any questions? Um I'm happy to continue to reiterate this at our uh at our meetings. The plan is is that we are going to be working um with a local architect in town to um have a training session for developers, architects, surveyors um like a like a you know a um a webinar maybe or a training info session so that they understand the new process and can ask questions um at that training session and hope to have uh continuing education credits attached to that.

Good. I think that's key reach to reach out to the professionals in land development um in the region. I think that's important. Yeah, we hope to do that at the beginning of November.

Um because this is a new process. Um, we're our website will be, you know, it will be it will have as much information as we can, but we're here to help the community. Um, we we're here to help through the process. Cooper is going to be, you know, this is new to us, but as we work through it, we're going to work through the pain points, but we're here to help help and please reach out. Certainly

I would like to just quickly discuss I I think there's a this flowchart is perfect for the salo purposes but it omits um sorry it omits all of the process points that were the bust in the example of Mr. Krenhaw. There's nothing in here that tells average Joe if they were going to develop a property when they submit to BIOU. and they don't that was that came in as a permit application, not as a subdivision. So that's that was the confusion.

Uh people don't know this. The general public doesn't isn't aware. If I want to develop a property, what are the steps I have to do? This only tells part of the story. It doesn't acknowledge all the other steps that you have to do to get the building approved. Mhm.

And that should be there should be another one of these that's a customer service product by you guys that's that tells the average person what every step they need to do and when they need to do it because if you look at this he you would never submit a project to BIOU until the end and then you've lost six months of time that you could have over overlapped this work effort because in all reality every development project you're designing the building the same time you're looking at the site design. It kind of happened hand inand as part of the process. Yeah. And I think we've looked at the Lancaster example. I think you even sent it to us, Jason, in terms of um sort of the processes that not only are through the Salo, but also what happens with permitting and

and we we we've looked at that and we've kept that in our back pocket. I think it's a matter of developing that interdep departmentally. Acknowledged in here somewhere that at some point in this process, Mr. Kra or whoever else needs to talk to another entity that is an extension of the city.

Um there's other suggestion there's other other municipalities in Erie County that use BIOU and we as architects don't submit to BIOU. We submit directly to municipality and they forward it to BIOU. That's not the process here in the city. Architects are and the developers are on their own to deal with BIOU directly. So you if you don't clean up that process, you have to identify those steps for the public to be aware of them because it's different in Mil Creek, it's different in Northeast, it's different in Harbor Creek, and they're all using BIOU. They just have different arrangements and contracts than the city has. So to it's entirely confusing to anybody that doesn't know where these borders are um if you don't put that process on your website and tag it to this. This is just the land development part, not the building part.

Noted. and we'll we'll work on on flushing out those workflows a bit more. Um, I do also want to note that once we get word that we've received the that map grant to rewrite the SAO and the zoning ordinance in completeness. Um the hope is that we'll look at those processes during the rewrite of a full SAO and we'll be able to talk through some of the concerns that you have. Okay. Other comments? Thank you. Okay. Thanks.

All right. There's nothing else but adjournment. So motion to adjurnn. Second. Okay. Have a motion, a second. All in favor? I

I thank you all. [Music] [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music]