Zoning Hearing Board - Regular Meeting

1 p.m we are going to call the city of erie zoning hearing board meeting to order for june 9 2026 can we all please rise and do the pledge to the flag i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and Thank you. Amy, can you do roll call, please?

Absolutely. Mr. Siebel?

Present.

Mr. Johnson has been excused. Mr. Dawson?

Present.

Ms. King? Present. And Ms. Genshin has also been excused. We have a quorum.

Moving on to new business, there is none. Approval of the meeting minutes.

We'll be doing those in July.

Okay, thank you. So we'll move on with none. Do we have any voting and announcements of an outstanding decision? None? Okay, so we'll move on to our appeals. For our first appeal, Amy, do you want to call or are we swearing people in first?

I'm sorry.

For our first appeal, do you want to start anything? Yeah, I can call it off.

Mr. Logue, if you guys want to come up. Okay, we have appeal number 13338. This is by Tony Logue, attorney, on behalf of Amy Grayson, concerning a property located at 2931 Gloth Avenue. Index is 185153-306. Located in an R1 low-density residential zoning district, The appellant is requesting a dimensional variance for a proposed detached garage. Per Section 205.9, the maximum square footage allowed for a detached accessory structure is 720 square feet.

Ms. Francis, before we get started, I just want to clarify a couple things. Do we have the court reporter on?

Yes, court reporter's on. Thank you.

And then, second, we had on your item,

This is the court reporter. I'm on, but I don't know who's who or who's speaking when they speak. I need names and the spellings of the names.

Certainly. We'll have people do that. Currently speaking, it's Lydia Caparosa. I'm the zoning hearing board solicitor, and that's C-A-P-A-R-O-S-A. But item five on the agenda was the continued hearing relative to...

Appeal 13-336. Yes.

Is that happening today?

We did not put them forward, did not contact. We were going to make the vote in June.

Okay.

And nothing had come about that.

Okay. I think we can move forward with the other thing. We may need to revisit this, though, because we're within the time window for rendering a decision.

So we want to make sure we do that.

Okay. To the extent we have any witnesses that are going to be present and speaking or providing testimony, if they could please stand and raise their right hand so that our court reporter can swear them in. The person is standing. You can't see her.

Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you give today will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

You can go ahead.

Thank you. Good afternoon. This, for the record, I'm Attorney Tony Logue. I'm representing Amy Grayson in today's variance hearing. Before I begin, I'd just like to mention a couple people that actually won who this chamber is named after, Mr. Mario Bagnone, who I consider like a father figure. And outside the chambers is a bust of a very good friend of mine, Larry Meredith. And every time I come here, whether it's for any ceremonial or for a function, whatever it might be. I'd like to mention those two individuals. The first one acted as a father figure to me. Mr. Meredith acted like a big brother to me. And I'd just like to speak their name because I firmly believe that if you still speak about somebody, that they still live on. So thank you for that brief statement. The way I'd like to proceed today is I'd like to go through certain factors with this board And then I'd like to call Miss Brittany Zillman of Zillman Design and have her speak to this board and introduce some exhibits. And then briefly come back up when she's done and finally address the board, if that's acceptable. All right, thank you. So the property in question is 2931 Gloth Avenue. And it's currently owned by my client.

This is Miss Amy Grayson seated right next to Miss Zillman.

And the property itself has a long history. Gloth Avenue, there was a Gloth subdivision. And the home that Ms. Grayson purchased back in 1999 is the old family Gloth Homestead. It was a farmhouse back then. I believe the house is approximately, was built in 1858. I can't do the math, that's why I became a lawyer in my head. So it's an old house. But since that time when she bought this house, she's been a good steward of this house. And she's done a lot of improvements to it. And she's done these improvements, new roof, new walls, new electrical, outside work to this house. She's done quite a bit. And she's currently, I'm not going to say her age on the record, but she's worked hard her whole life. And she's worked hard to make, she's been a good steward of this property. And she wants to continue to do that. and that's why we're before you and such. In that house, she raised five children as a single mother, doing this all herself. She went to Gannon University night school, became a registered nurse, still raising these five children all by herself. She then became employed helping our veterans at the Pennsylvania Soldiers and Sailors Home. She did that for over 18 years, doing that, As this time is going, she's still fixing this house up, and now she wants to fix it up more. And she retired from the Soldier and Sailor's home, but she's still working. And the project that brings us here is a product of her hard work. Currently, she's hired construction people, plumbers, Stonehouse Electric, Ms. Zillman as a designer, myself. So in this project alone, I was submitted to this board. She has probably spent over $45,000 already for this project.

Now, what I'd like to do is go to certain sections of the zoning code.

And I want to speak about some various factors here. Now, I know we have the application. And I moved to make that. Miss Caparosa, maybe you can help me with this. Can I make that application exhibit one? And there's some letters that are attached to it also. issues, I don't want to have those published. So, I'd like to have that as exhibit one, maybe a cumulative exhibit with those two letters attached to it. Also, I have some supplemental letters with respect to that, with respect to Ms. Grayson herself, based as unfortunate outcome from

Hi, I'm sorry to interrupt.

This is a court reporter again. I cannot hear anybody unless they're talking into the mic. So can we just make sure that we're talking into the mic, please?

Yes, it is. Can you hear me now?

Yeah, I can hear you now. Thank you.

You're welcome. So under 508.9 of the city code with respect to variances, I direct this board's attention to section 508.94. And that speaks about the essential character of the neighborhood or district, that this project is not going to alter or permanently impair the appropriate use or development of the property and such. Actually, when Ms. Zillman comes up here, she's going to show you pictures of what was existing there at that point in time until that was taken down and this new building has been erected. And again, you'll see that there will be an aerial photograph that will be introduced as an exhibit, which shows that there's more than enough property here for this. Under Section 5 of the Variance Code, that it represents the minimum variance that will afford relief and will represent the least modification possible of the regulation in use. And again, I'll have Ms. Zillman speak to this board about that. But more importantly, turning the page here and looking at subsections six, seven. And again, I don't want to be critical, but you have the letters attached to that application. And unfortunately, my client is doing this to provide relief to the neighborhood. Her son, and again I'm going to be guarded with my wording here, her son unfortunately travels the neighborhood at night time, disrupting various neighbors and noise and things. They understand his condition, but they're very concerned. Ms. Grayson then acted affirmatively and built the structure, which would include a workout area. Her son likes to exercise and such. And if we had this workout area, and that's what we're here for, we could then, I'm coaching my words, I don't want to say confine him, but he would be more than happy to spend his evenings inside there exercising, working out. He loves to exercise. I spoke to this young man. And he likes that, and he said he would love that, and he wouldn't feel the need to walk around the neighborhood. And unfortunately, he does have spells where he does get a little loud and burst out with language and such. So he would like this, and that's what we're seeking here. So under the Americans with Disability Act, I think those letters from his doctor, from the letter that was just provided to this board, also show that. So I think they're... is an exception here, a hardship here, that would allow this variance to go through. And again, 7 speaks about the applicant proves the disabilities. So I think we approve that. And I think just on that alone. But however, the zoning board also has this other issue to think about under 508.10, special exceptions. I'm not going to read this to you, but it does state this, that we are allowed. The law does provide for that under these exceptions that we have been shown you that this variance should go through. It's a dimensional variance, not a use variance, a dimensional variance, and that's what we're seeking. And based upon her son with his difficulties now trickling down to her, I think we've met that burden. So I'd like this board to consider that, please. Again, I believe I've had, Amy, if you can help me on this, I think we have the exhibits, the application, cumulative exhibit, and then that letter. That will be part of that. Okay, thank you. Now, what I'd like to do at this point, and again, I know we have other people here, so I'm not going to take too much more time. I'd like to present Ms. Zillman, have her come up. talk to you, introduce some exhibits, and then I'd like to come up and finish up, if that's possible. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, thank you. My name is Brittany Zillman. I have some exhibits, so I will hand them off to you.

Could you please spell your last name, your first and last name for the corporate?

Brittany, B-R-I-T-T-A-N-Y. Zillman is Z-I-L-L-M-A-N. um i own zillman design company i'm a drafter designer who would be helping amy move forward with doing the drafting that would be required for the next part of this after zoning was approved for the building drawings the construction set of drawings so In those pictures that you'll be passing, sorry I didn't bring additional sets, you'll see the site layout is exhibit A. That's the top view of the property. North would be the top of the page. That shows the existing garage that's there. In exhibit B and C, you're going to see the existing garage that was demolished. Obviously not only not nice to look at as an eyesore, but it was also dangerous. In exhibit D, you will see the new garage that has already been constructed. It does not have the doors on it as of this point. It's kind of open so you can see the construction of it. It's a pole construction. In exhibit E, you're going to see the rear view of the garage. That would be actually from a neighbor's house, so you'll see the fence that has been in line, and that would be Amy's fence, and then over the fence would be the new building that has been constructed. In exhibit F, you'll see the corner of the new construction, which is the blue building, and then the existing concrete from the previous garage is still in place until she's ready to repair that. So that is what I have for you. I have been to the site several times so I could tell you anything about how the building is constructed, but I think that's saved for another time.

Before you go, Ms. Zillman.

Yes.

Any of the board members have any questions for Ms. Zillman?

I guess I have questions for both. Okay. So where do we start?

with Ms. Zillman and then we can do attorney when he comes back. Thank you.

So did you design the garage and so forth?

I have not. No, I was hired after the building was constructed. So I would be helping draw what is built, constructed, put it onto paper with all of the information as far as what size wood was used, what pitch of the roof was used, the height of the building. I would be putting an as-built drawing together so that we could get through the next part of this.

You're not the person who constructed or didn't get approval for the construction?

That's correct.

Okay, then I need to hear from the attorney. Okay.

Do you have more questions?

Yeah, yes. Are you involved in the rest of the design? Can you tell us what the finished product is going to be inside and out?

Yeah, so most likely on the outside it's already metal siding. The inside is built with purlins and it's six by six posts. And then on the interior we're mostly going to fire rate drywall on at least two sides of the building. And then the finishes from there could be as little as drywall. Obviously she's going to want to insulate this so she can use it most of the time. So those drawings that I would be completing would show everything that would be needed to construct the rest of this from here on out, including door sizes, if there's any windows, that kind of stuff. And is it gonna plumbing electric what all what all is it gonna have so there won't be plumbing in this building she is working on so I was hired to do a future building which is kind of on hold until we get through this and Electric would definitely be brought into the building. I believe that she would have a concrete floor poured And then some sort of heating so she can use this more than three seasons Thank you so

All the permits that are necessary for the things that you just mentioned, you know where to go now?

Yes. So I would, after this would be completed, I would create the drawings that would get her through BIU permitting. Yes.

And one more question. Is it within the height? Is it within the 15 feet or what is the height?

Um, so I don't know the height. Um, I do know it's a four over 12 pitch. Um, is there's a height restriction for the total building? Yes. Oh, and it's 15 foot. Okay.

She currently needs that, right?

Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.

Um, this would be a question probably for, have you been out there? Um, are they good on all the other dimensional things like distance from property line and such? It looks awful close.

As far as I can see, everything else looks appropriate at this time, even right down to lot coverage. Brittany and I worked very closely. We are under 35% for everything.

Okay.

And to clarify, I understand it's a dimensional variance, but what is the amount of the variance you're asking for? So I think it's 720 feet is what is permitted square feet? Yeah, 720 square feet. So what are you asking for in a variance?

Mm-hmm.

It would be 840 square foot is what it has measured to for the total.

So you're asking for 120 square foot variance.

Correct, yes. Yes, I'm sorry. She wanted us to do math, Tony.

That's why, as I said, I became a lawyer. I can't do it in my head. It's been answered.

Okay.

My question's been answered.

Oh, thank you. All right, just to finish up then, unless you have any... Does the board have any questions for me? Well, obviously, you've heard from Ms. Zillman. I think she presents well. And again, those exhibits, I'd like to have her. She did alpha on the photos. I'd like to have those admitted into the record also then, please. But I would like to ask this board to grant the variance for substantial justice to Ms. Grayson. I think she's been a very good steward to this property, to that neighborhood. Due to circumstances within her family, that's how this came about. Yes, I wasn't there when this all happened, but I just ask this board if you could maybe just look past that and look at what's going on and what she's trying to accomplish there. I think that's very important. Now, to do the lawyer thing, I do want to speak about a case, and it's a seminal case by the Pennsylvania State Supreme Court of Pennsylvania entitled, Hertzberg versus Zoning Board of Adjustment of the City of Pittsburgh at 7-21, Atlantic Second, 43, 1998. I'm not going to cite the whole case, but I just want to talk about this. In this case, which is a Supreme Court of Pennsylvania case, still relevant, says, to justify the grant of a dimensional variance, courts consider multiple factors including the economic detriment to the applicant if the variance is denied, the financial hardship created by any work necessary to bring the building into strict compliance with the zoning requirements, and the characteristics of the surrounding neighborhood. To hold otherwise would prohibit the rehabilitation of neighborhoods by precluding an applicant who wishes to renovate a building in a blighted area from attaining the necessary variances. You saw what was there, what was there existing. She took it down. She's trying to not only do something in this neighborhood that she's done. As I began my statement in the beginning, it's like a book. You read it in the beginning and come to the end. You understand it then. And that's why I gave the history of this woman that house and what she's been doing there and what she's continued to try to do. And she's doing it not only to make that neighborhood better. She's doing it for her son and herself because you have those letters. So I would just ask this board if you could grant this variance. And I don't think any more missteps will occur in this matter. She has a team now, and I work very closely with her, and hopefully I can handle the legal issues. But please, grant us variance. This lady deserves it. Now for the question. Yes.

When was the building constructed?

The building was constructed, I believe, was it this year? The original garage that was taken down, that was in 1905.

The new building.

This year, two or three months ago.

Okay. And is that the piece that did not become, the city did not become aware of the building had no permit to construct?

That's correct. There was a plumbing permit taken out and the plumbing inspector had been called out for an inspection.

Any questions?

All right. Well, thank you very much, everyone. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else to speak in favor? Anyone else to speak in favor? Is there anyone to speak against? Anyone else to speak against? Okay, hearing none, we will go on to the next hearing. Thank you.

Just before we go on to the next one for the court report's benefit, the woman who was just speaking was Selena King. I know she wanted us to identify herself, so I just wanted to clarify that.

I honestly cannot really hear anybody that well at all. I can't hear if when the board is speaking, I'm trying my best, but if nobody speaks into their mic or even a little bit away from their mic, I cannot hear a single thing.

Okay, can you hear me now?

Yeah, I hear you when you speak into your mic, but even if somebody is very far away, I can't understand them at all.

OK, thank you. So again, this is Lydia. The woman who was speaking before me that may have been softer was Selena King. She's vice chair today. The gentleman who was asking questions about when the building was constructed is Mr. Ed Dawson. And the other gentleman that is asking questions from the board is Tom Sebald. I don't remember what you asked last time, but again, as a reminder of everybody, pull your mic close and speak into the mic, please. Go ahead, Amy.

Ready? Okay. We'll move along to Lynette, if you want to come on up.

Also, I need the name of who's speaking currently.

Sorry, that's Amy Francis.

Thank you.

Yep. This is appeal 13339 by Lynette Thompson on behalf of Red Doors LLC. This is for a property located at 1007 West 6th Street, index 17-4031-208, located in an R2 medium density residential zoning district. The appellant is requesting a dimensional variance for a proposed three-family home. And per Section 205, 6,000 square feet of lot area is required. 19, I'm sorry, 1,991 square feet is available.

Can you please swear the next appellant in?

And any witnesses that are intending to provide comments for or against or as witnesses, if you could please stand and raise your right hand.

Can you raise your right hand for me, please? I can't see very well.

Can you see the witness?

Every time I speak, my, like, my... picture comes up, so I can't see anybody when I speak.

Okay, she has her right hand raised. Okay, thank you.

Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you give today will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

I do. Thank you. And then can you give her your name, please, for the record? My name is Lynette Thompson. You can go ahead. I own this property located at 1007 West 6th Street. I've owned it for two years, and my initial thought was to try to make it a laundromat, but I ran into a lot of problems, so I have plan B, which is to create a three-unit, small, tiny apartment studio. I've been calling the zoning board, well, permits, and I'm talking with Amy, and she informed me that in order to have three units, it would require a 6,000 square foot lot, and mine is only a 2,000 square foot lot. So that's the rule, but I'm requesting for a dimensional variance to create these three-bedroom, this three-unit small studio apartment complex.

So this is Tom Sebald. So what's in there now? They're just vacant? What were they before? Tell us the history of it.

Sure. So I've owned it for two years now. June 7th will be two years. Prior to that, it was owned for five years, and it's completely empty. It's a shell. There's nothing at all. No plumbing, no like, well, it's a light electric, but no plumbing. It's been completely gutted. So seven years total, there's nothing but a vacant building. Prior to that, that owner had it for 22 years. And if you look at the photos, you see a martial arts studio. And over on the other side was three, it was office spaces, three offices. And so it hasn't had any, there hasn't been anything going on for the past seven years for seven years that I know of. But prior to that, it's been a while since it's been a martial arts studio. I tried to look up more information, but I couldn't find anything.

OK. Thank you. I guess this would be a question for Amy. This is Tom again. So for a two unit, do they still use the same 2,000 square feet

Yes, correct. In our two districts.

So it's just exponential.

It's just standard.

Okay. Could you repeat that again?

Were you saying for the two unit? So I was asking if you have the same, if they just, it's 2,000 square feet per unit you need? Yes. Of lot size. So I was just asking if that's what that meant.

Questions?

Just to clarify, so the dimensional variance that you're asking for is, because from the application it indicates that- Looks like 4,000 tenths. You have 1,991 square feet available and that you need 6,000. So you're asking for a dimensional variance of 4,009 square feet?

That is correct.

Have you considered less?

I know that I could have a two unit, but three would be better, of course. And here's why. So it's like a pilot. It's going to be a small studio apartment, open floor plan. As you can see, I pulled some photographs to give you guys an idea of what it's going to look like, right? I didn't get an architect drawing of it yet because I knew I had to get an approval. Why pay all that money for an architect and design it? and I need to come here first, right? I've been pursuing this for over about a year, trying to determine what would be best for this property. It's plenty of parking space, and the neighborhood is mixed with residential and business. So what the studio apartments would do, you know, inside is 1,700 square feet. If you divide that by three, you get over about 566 square foot of space. living space. And so I also have considered and gotten estimates for increasing it to a second floor. I don't know how that works, but I have to come in front of you guys. I don't know what the ordinance is for height, but my contractors already gave me an estimate to increase it with a second floor. So having three units is better than two because you get more income. You're able to provide more affordable housing to more single individuals that are getting beat out of the two and three bedroom housing that is normally available. We're looking at seniors, students. We're looking at traveling employees, things of the sort. So in rentals, you know it's usually 90 percent of renting you know you might get someone to move out at least you have those two units still functioning right to cover all the expenses um of of rentals um which taxes mortgage uh insurance etc so um this is why i like to pursue the three also As an investor going further down the line, I want to retire and I can at least live in one of them. Those are some options as well. So this is why I like to have three versus two.

And to Amy, what does the square footage per unit allow in the city?

We do not have a minimum per unit. Yes.

Okay.

Is that? No, I don't have a building minimum. It's a lot. There's a lot square footage, but not a building minimum.

No, I'm talking about living space.

It's not in the zoning code.

Thank you.

Now, the lot, like the 2,000 square feet per unit, is that the density? Correct.

Yes, sir.

and would this with this particular lot like the dimensions of this lot with the use of with the building that is currently there would it can does it conform with all the other like setback requirements or is it an existing non-conforming structure it's an existing non-conforming

All right. Thank you, Ms. Thompson.

Thank you for hearing me out. I appreciate it, everyone.

Is there anyone else to speak in favor? Anyone else to speak in favor? Is there anyone to speak against? Anyone else to speak against? Hearing none, we will go to a brief executive section and come back with a decision.

Amy, we're ready to call for the vote.

Regarding the case of 13338 2931 Gloth Avenue, do we want to make a motion or are we just?

Motion for approval. We'll second it.

Thank you. And I just want to clarify for the record that's an approval to the extent it's granted or approved of 120 square feet variance. Thank you. Clarification.

Okay, motion to approve the variance for 120 extra square feet.

Who was the first and who was the second? Tom.

Motion by Ed Dawson, second by Tom Sebald.

Thank you.

I think I'd also like to add that in the future, and for anyone else that you understand, you must come to the city for approval.

Okay, so Mr. Sebald.

Approved.

Mr. Dawson.

Approved.

And Ms. King? Approve. Okay, motion has been granted. Thank you. Okay, in the case for Lynette Thompson, appeal number 13339. This is for the property located at 1007 West 6th Street.

So we talked a lot about this back there. And we're all kind of in for affordable housing. The density issue is something that planning's been looking at for, I would say, two or three years now. And I don't know, that could be two to 10 years from now. So what we looked at was kind of a compromise on that. in noting the neighborhood it looks like there's tons of two unit buildings on lots that wouldn't support a two unit under the current zoning just similar sized lots the tiers so the motion we would be proposing if you're amenable is that we would allow you to do a two unit there two unit residential or leave it as a three commercial oh can you come to the mic please

So isn't it already approved for a two-unit?

I don't know because of the dimensional scale. You need 4,000 square feet of lot for a two-unit under the current code, at least if I'm understanding that correctly. Correct?

Correct. That's correct. 2,000 per family unit.

So we'd be doing a variance of basically 50% allowing it to be a two-unit.

OK. So I have to only do two units and not three.

I think the option mentioned was to go back to the original and you would consider three commercial.

I'm sorry?

Three commercial versus the two residential.

And then the other thing we had talked about too, and it's not really our purview, but once you go from two to three units, you also have a host of other building code related issues that just make things exponentially more expensive, like sprinkler systems and things like that.

Yes, I understand that. I do understand that. And I'm okay with that.

So yeah, so my motion would be to approve a dimensional variance for a two unit.

Is there a second for that?

I would second that. Ed Dawson.

Are you okay? Well, before we do that, are you okay with that? The two unit?

I would like the three.

So the two units off the table for you?

If I can't get the three, then I'll take the two, please. Okay. Just wanted to make sure.

It doesn't meet one. Okay. So can we do the motion again, please?

So this is Tom Sebald. I would make a motion that we approve a dimensional variance for a two-unit development. Ed Dawson, second.

Thank you. Mr. Sebald.

Approved.

Mr. Dawson. Approved. And Ms. King.

Approved.

Okay, motion has carried for a two-unit for a dimensional variance.

This is Lydia Caparosa. We're going to go back to, I guess, the unfinished business we had from earlier relative to the continued hearing for appeal 13336. Yes. Yes. Yes. This is with Attorney Craig Zono on behalf of Zakaria Hassan concerning property located at 2690 Cherry Street. Seeking to change non-conforming use from one to another non-conforming use from personal service to retail. This hearing was initially held at our May 12th meeting, and we tabled the decision until this meeting. It does not appear that anyone is here on behalf of this matter. I just want to confirm, is there anyone here on behalf of appeal number 13336? Seeing no one. Okay. Is the board prepared to make a decision relative to this matter? Yes, we are.

Amy, can you call for the vote? Yep. Mr. Sebald?

I would deny it.

No. Mr. Dawson?

Ms. Lydia, do we have a motion?

Thank you. Sorry. Getting ahead of ourselves.

So this is Mr. Sebald, Tom. I would make a motion that we deny the use variance.

So motion to deny. Mr. Sebald?

Second, Ed Dawson.

Thank you, Ed. Sorry.

So yes, I would be in the affirmative that we're denying it.

Thank you. Mr. Dawson?

Affirm, deny.

Okay, and Ms. King?

Deny.

Okay, motion has been denied for a convenience store or small retail store at that location. Thank you.

Thank you, Amy.

One more little piece, if I may add. We're bringing back Matt Puz as our chief zoning officer. I just wanted everybody to know who he was and that he was with the city for many, many years and came back to us, thank goodness. So we're very happy to have him here.

Hello.

Welcome back, Matt.

Welcome back.

Thank you.

It's like I never left you.

We've heard all appeals. Can we have a motion to adjourn?

So moved.

Meeting's adjourned at 2.06 PM.