Zoning Hearing Board - Regular Meeting

All right. Good afternoon. We'll call the zoning hearing board meeting to order. If you would join me in the pledge of allegiance, please. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Amy, if you could call the role, please. Uh, yes, absolutely. Mr. Seabel, present. Uh, Mr. Johnson was excused today. Mr. Dawson, present. Miss King, present. And Miss Gunshin also present.

Uh, Lydia and myself are also here. Thank you. We have a quorum. Thank you. Moving on the agenda does not look like we have any new business today. So we'll move on to approval of the April 14th meeting minutes. Is there a motion? Motion to approve. Mr. Dawson, is there a second? Second.

Second, Mr. Seabalds. Any discussion? All in favor indicate by saying I. I. Any opposed? All right. Motion carries. All right. Next on the agenda, we have voting and announcement of outstanding decisions. And we have none. Next on the agenda, we do have one continued hearing from our last hearing in April. 21104 Hampton Road will be continued to May 21st. That has been duly advertised for May 21st at 1 p.m. All right, moving on. Hearing of the cases. It is my understanding, Amy, that the first appeal on the agenda for today has been formally withdrawn in writing.

That is correct. Okay. Thank you. All right. So, we'll move on to appeal number 1336. Amy.

Okay. Uh number 1336 is uh concerning a property located at 2690 Cherry Street. The parcel identification number is 14-1127-202 located in R1A lowdensity residential zoning district. The appellant is requesting a change to a nonconforming use which was a personal service barber shop to another non-conforming use to a retail small convenience store. Per section 205.2 retail is not a permitted use. You guys can present your case. Gentlemen, before you approach, a couple op couple things of housekeeping. When you come, anybody who's going to provide testimony today, when you come to the podium, please state your name and your address for the record. Amy, we do have a court reporter online, correct?

I am checking that is probably the girl that needs to let in. Give me one quick second. Madam Chair, I thought we'd ask that the reporter be present. We had Yeah, we did have um some comment. Yeah, we did request that. Um Sergeant Court Reporting Service is who we utilize. They are a regional court reporting service and they do not have anybody staffed in this area. Okay. Unfortunately, um oftentimes when I do have court reporters that come for my evening zoning hearing board meetings, they're coming out of like Pittsburgh. Okay. So, but it does look like Sergeants is online. Amy.

Uh, yes, they are online. That's correct. And they've been promoted so that they can speak. That is correct, also. Okay. Well, thank you. Appreciate that. So, when you come forward to the podium again, state your name and your address for the record. You'll turn to the court reporter and be sworn in. Sir, uh, good afternoon. My name is Craig Zone. I'm an attorney with Quinn Elder, 456 West 6th Street, Erie, Pennsylvania. Uh, 16507. Uh I'm an attorney admitted in the Erie County Bar. My client is Hassan Zakaria. He is the owner of uh the property in question. Okay. So, Mr. Zakaria, if you're going to provide testimony today, if you could be sworn in,

uh could the court reporter please chime in? Jessica, are you there? So, yes, I am here, but I just joined the meeting. Um, so I didn't get anything prior recorded. Um, I was having trouble um, getting on the link and no one verified that I was on. Jessica, we can hear you now.

I have no video. I I have a black screen. Um, I I'm just joining now and and are able to speak. So, I don't know if you want to start over or if it's okay if we just go on the record from here or if there's a way you can get me on the video. Um, that's where I'm at. My apologize, but we can hear you. Okay, great. She can't see anything. She can't see us, though. Are we also live on YouTube? We are. Could we take a time out? I don't agenda or exhibits on this. Okay, gentlemen, if you would give us five minutes. Thank you very much. We'll get our ducks in a row here. Thank you, Jessica. We're going to try and work through this issue. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. If we could just take a pause for a moment. Yes. Yeah. They're going to take a break and hopefully they can figure it out. I guess I'll call you if they don't or I don't know either. Okay. All right. Thanks anyway. Okay. Bye-bye. All right. Thank you. We'll come back on the record a couple.

Okay. I just I don't know if I'm sorry. I don't know if you heard me earlier, but I got nothing on the record of this meeting so far. I don't know if you're okay with going on the record starting from here or you need to start over or what. Um, I think the only thing we have taken a vote so far on has been the minutes for the approval of that. Um, and I guess this is what I'm going to do as a workaround that we don't have to redo everything. But I think if you could start taking down at this moment, I will recite to you what has happened thus far.

Okay. Um, so Chairwoman Gunshin called the meeting to order at 10:02 p.m. Uh, we did the pledge of allegiance and then Secretary Amy Francis called the role and Laura Gunin, chair was present, Selena King, vice chair, was present online. Ed Dawson was present in person. Mr. Jeffrey Johnson has an excused absence. Mr. Tom Stebald was present and secretary Amy Francis is present and myself uh zoning hearing board solicitor Lydia Caparosa was also present. Um there was no new business. The meeting minutes were approved by a motion from Mr. Dawson seconded by Mr. Seabald by unanimous vote. Um there are no outstanding decisions. There is a continued hearing on 21104 Hampton Road that will be continued on May 21st, 2026. And we have now moved into the hearing relative to the matters today. Um, appeal number 1335 that was filed by John Stewart concerning property located at 430 Cascade Street uh was confirmed to have been withdrawn in writing by the applicant. So, we will not be proceeding on that matter. And then we've now moved on to appeal number 13336, which is where we had just gotten to and that was for property owned by Hassan Zakaria. And um I believe attorney Zona and his client were about to present their information and Mr. Zakaria was going to be sworn in. Think that is where we've left it.

Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Now we'll have the record conceding from continuing from there, gentlemen. Thank you. Now we're ready. Thank you, Mr. Z. So, we're going to swear in Mr. Uh, sir, could you raise your right hand, please, and let me know when it's raised? Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I swear it's going to be the truth. Thank you. Good afternoon. Just remember to speak directly into the microphone. Thank you. And if you could state and spell your name for me, that'd be helpful. First name is Zakaroya. Last name Hassan. Spell it.

Could you please spell it? Uh, Z A K A R I A. That's the first name. Last name is H A S S A N. Thank you. You're welcome.

Okay. So, just for the record again, my name is Craig Zona. I'm an attorney with the Quinn Alder Law Firm. I represent Mr. Zakaria, we're here on a uh application for a change in nonconforming use to the property at 2960 Cherry. It's currently zoned R1A. Historical use is pretty interesting. I don't know if had an opportunity to look at it, but it looks like as far back as the 1930s, it was a service station or a gas station, maybe up until 75. Then it became a pharmacy and then a travel agency maybe in 2004 and then a barber shop in 2012. Um those were non-conforming uses. The property was sold to my client in 2019. He changed the use from barber shop to a small convenience store. No per no permitting was obtained. He had no idea that he needed to do any of those things. So he he assumed he was he was he was good to go. It wasn't until March 2026 that uh Amy Francis met with Mr. Zakaria and informed him that his non-conforming use was not acceptable under the current zoning that he would have to file an application to change it from from personal services to retail. So that is how we got here. And with that, I'd like to put some some statements on the record, maybe ask Mr. Zakaria has some questions just to to get that all on there. Uh, can you state your full name for the record?

Zechariah Hassan. Are you the owner of 2960 Cherry Street? Correct. Yes. Do you know what was the property used for before you bought it? Used to be a barber shop. Did you change that use? Yes. When? In 2019. Is that when you bought the property? Correct. Okay. And what's the current use? Is a convenience store. Small convenience store. Okay. Can you describe that store? What's your customer base? Most the customer is from the neighbor. It's the one they live around me. And do you have a lot of people that walk to your store? Yeah, I have a lot of people they walk to the store. Is is there a building on the property? Yes.

Um, generally, can you tell us what the size of the building is? It's 1,092 square foot. Okay. And section 3024 uh of the zoning ordinance requires one parking space for every 350 ft. Um in your scenario that would be a little over three. How many parking spaces do you have? 10 space. Okay. Any fuel pumps? No. Any outdoor mechanical devices? Nothing over that. Any like outdoor refrigeration? Nothing of that. Sound transmission? Nothing. Okay. Is there any screening between your property and the neighbors? Nothing. Okay. Is is screening helpful in your situation? No.

Okay. And tell tell why the screening wouldn't matter here. Okay. It's like between me and my neighbor. Right. Right. Yeah. It's because the neighbor like you're talking about the one. I'm sorry. I can't I didn't hear your answer, sir. You have to speak right. Okay. Just tell them why you do not think screening is appropriate here. I didn't get this question was Yeah. Yeah. Your neighbors. Go ahead.

Oh, the neighbors. Okay, it's most of the customers from my neighbors you know all of them they walk most of them they have no cars you know it's kind of close to me and like when I say like probably about almost 75% of the customer the one they live around me uh let's help the neighbors you know uh we open from 9 all the way to 10 okay so what about screening like screening around the building why wouldn't that be appropriate for you to put up screening around your building like the fence or something. Okay. The one is next to me, the neighbor is next to me. He parked his car all the way inside. That's why I did not put no screen in between me and him because I'm trying to make space for him to park his car.

Okay. So, for me to clarify the reason I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm getting a bad echo and I'm having a hard time hearing. If he could please repeat his answer. This is going well. So, here here's let let me clarify the qu I'll ask the question a little bit differently. So is the reason that you don't think screening is appropriate is because you the neighbors park their vehicles in between your building and their property and some of that's on your property and you're okay with that. They use it for that. So if you put up screening they won't be able to park their cars. Correct. Yeah. And most of the time when is the snow when sometime when the blowers come to take the snow away so most the you know the around me the neighbors they park in my parking lot for a minute to move the snow. So you allow them to park in your parking.

Yeah. Allow them you know to park up there. Thank you. You're welcome. Um, see how how is business there in the neighborhood? It's doing pretty good. Okay. Do you have any plans to expand anything at this time? Nothing. Okay. No further questions.

What was the impetus for the contact with Miss Francis in March? My understanding is that the impetus for that was he was thinking about trying to expand his kitchen inside the store and several people came out to look after he inquired or made that application came out to look to see what you know what he had there and then at some point after I think uh Miss Francis contacted him because this probably became like hey what's going on here so she informed uh Miss Francis informed Mr. Zakaria that hey this use you're you're kind of out of the ordinance so you're going to need to file something in order to get this nonconforming use changed.

The question if I may was to put in a a chicken fried window to expand the kitchen and put in a walk up service window. That's the question that came in. So when I looked at the record that's where we found the discrepancy. Yes. Is the this the article the one he correct? Yeah. So ultimately then in our request is the change in the non-conforming use to the retail which he's using now and which he's been doing since 2019 when he bought it and relief from the screen planting. Correct. Although if it's decided that's appropriate, he's happy to do it. Just doesn't think his neighbors will appreciate it.

Okay. Which neighbor? Both side. both this side to the right side. Okay. He parked his car all the way inside and I don't want to like bother him, you know, just put screener right there for him. Sorry guys.

Sorry guys. While we're waiting, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to interrupt, but it's not showing me on Zoom. Who is the female that was asking the questions just now? Was Tom seal? Oh, I'm okay. Thank you.

Yeah, if everyone could just identify themselves before they speak, that would be really helpful and I don't have to interrupt. Thank you. Here we go. Is that better view for you? Yeah. So you're saying you're saying the White House is the one that uses the spot, not the not the blue one. They have their own correct it looks like. Okay.

This is Laura Gunin. So Mr. Zona, you are aware that demonstrating a hardship is a requirement for a variance request. We've not heard a lot about a hardship today. If you could articulate what the hardship would be in that if I look at the laundry list of uses that are acceptable in R1A, part of your argument today is why this property can't be developed in strict conformance with the zoning ordinance. Basically, why all of these uses don't fit that building and this retail use would be the only thing that can. Well, I I think that the first off, the reason it's a a hardship is because of the structure itself. Uh, you know, I think that to convert that to anything else would be cost prohibitive. Certainly, you can't go back to residential. That's an impossibility. Uh, and I think that most of the other uses have been business uses which were accommodating people in the neighborhood, services, the pharmacy, which also is retail. And this is just really a continuation of that. Um I think to do anything else in that building would require an investment that probably no one would do.

Okay. Other questions from the board? I didn't hear where you live. Where where do you live? Where do I live? No. Yes, sir. 11 M Creek 5810 Public Stone Court EDPA 16506. Yes, I hear him now. And was the fence ever erected before? Did you tear it down? What happened? Was there ever a fence there when you owned it? When I owned it? No. Never.

Can't speak to before that. Is this use going to involve the sale of alcohol? It is no alcohol. Tobacco. Do you sell tobacco products? Yes. Like cigarette and Yeah. Okay. Do you intend to expand to include the sale of alcohol? We do not. No. Does this request include the expansion for your chicken piece of it? Chicken frying. We're not planning that at this time. No. Okay.

Anything further from the board? Nothing from me. Well, I'm guessing this is more a question probably for you. Um, is there something in the ordinance I'm sorry, who's speaking? Tom Seabald. Is there something in the ordinance um that gives a not a grace period, but he's been in business for six years doing this. When when is that triggered? Never. because

there isn't, as far as I'm aware, like a grace period in there. The reality is when you're changing a use, you're you do need to check with the zoning office to confirm. Um, you often see that we find out after the fact and we do a lot of we're trying to correct the issue. So, that's what this scenario is. I think if Mr. Hassan had come in at the beginning, we would have said, "Hey, that's not a permitted use." And we wouldn't be here, correct? unless they were seeking a use variance. But um yeah, the preferences on the forefront versus on the back end. I guess I'm just trying to erase the the old grandfathered in thing which would have been the service station and nothing else after. Correct.

But then you kind of get into the when was that use abandoned and at least under the current one if it's 2 years and to go from a gas station to a barber shop, I think that's a very clear abandonment of like a gas station or convenience store. Um, and I don't know when it was a convenience or a gas station rather. I mean, I'm like it's true 1975. Yeah. So,

just a couple of more years than two. Um, I mean, you can there can certainly be a change from one non-conforming use to another non-conforming use, provided, at least in the ordinance, provided that is like the same level of intensity, doesn't involve the sale of alcohol, um, you know, similar foot traffic if you will. Um because I mean technically speaking personal services isn't a permitted use in that district. So it would be from one non-conforming to another non-conforming. Okay. So thank you.

All right. I I I just want to reaffirm that there's no cell of the use of alcohol. There's not and there is no plans to do that. Never. I never plan for our call. Any other questions from the board? Okay, gentlemen, you can have a seat. Thank you. Thank you. Yes.

Anyone else to speak in favor of this request? Anyone else to speak in favor of this request? Last call. Anyone else to speak in favor of this request? Hearing none. Anyone here in opposition of this request? Anyone in opposition of this request? Last call. Anyone in opposition of this request? Okay. Hearing none. All right. We're actually going to move on and hear the next appeal. Then we'll take a brief executive session and come back on the record for the voting. Okay. Thank you. All right. Amy, if we could move to the next appeal. Yes, absolutely. Dr. Matthews, if you want to come up, we'll read your record.

Excuse me. This is appeal number 13337 by Dr. Rhonda Matthews. on behalf of Erie's Black Wall Street. This is concerning a property located at 16161618 Parade Street bearing an index number of 15-202-202 located in a C4 traditional neighborhood commercial zoning district. The appellent is requesting a use variance for a proposed mixeduse office and commercial recreation use. Per section 204.9, commercial recreation is not a permitted use. Okay. Thank you.

Uh, my name is Rhonda. R H O N D A Matthews M- A T H E WS. Which address do you need? My home address or our business address? Business is fine. 650 East Avenue. Sweet uh 113 area PA16503. Thank you. If you could you could be sworn in. Raise your right hand. Court reporter. I swear you in. Thank you. My hand is raised.

Whenever you're ready, Jessica, you're on mute if you're speaking. Jessica, can you hear us? You're on mute if you're trying to talk. There you go. I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was muted. You're good. Um, the witness has her hand raised. Okay. Uh, do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes. Thank you.

Before she proceeds, Madam Chair, are there other people who are going to testify so that we don't have to go through this separately for each individual? Is there anyone in the audience that is intending to testify relative to this matter? If you could just stand and raise your right hand.

Are people standing with hands raised? Yep. Yep. Okay. All right. Um, do you swear or affirm the testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Thank you.

Thank you. You can be seated. Okay. So, um we um are requesting of variance to our uh property, the property that we're renovating at 1618 Parade Street. Um we propose meeting and assembly spaces um com for use in um well we propo we propose use of the spaces for meeting an event uh meeting and assembly uh commercial recreation um community events um and we are seeking um a minimal variance. The reason that we are doing this work is that it's part of our neighborhood revitalization planning. The improvement is intended to revitalize and improve the Parade Street neighborhood. Um the building has historic uses. It has um been a staple in the African-American community uh in Erie. Uh it served at one point as the Bay City Lodge uh number 68 which is one of the oldest in the city. It was a Prince Hall temple. Um it was uh at one point the building that the NAACP used um and it's housed Central City Neighborhood Action Team um organization which is also known as NATO. And that was from 1974 to 1984, I believe. Um, the our primary use, I'm sorry, is professional services. So, I guess that's kind of the general overview.

Thank you, Dr. Matthews. I have a similar similar question to you that I did to attorney Zona. Part of the deliberation of the zoning hearing board is to hear about the hardship basically why this property cannot be developed within strict conformance of the zoning ordinance. So if I look at C4 neighborhood traditional neighborhood commercial permitted uses banks and financial institutions bed and breakfast churches cleaners computer user center convenience store daycare center dental and medical clinic eating and drinking establishment fa family daycare fitness center gym florest funeral home. I I mean I could go on and on and on. Part of that hardship articulation is to tell us why this property cannot be developed into one of these uses.

Hi, my name is Dalon Hooks. I'm also a part of the board of Eeries Black Wall Street. I'm the vice president. Our Madam Chair, we need to identify who we're speaking. You said his name Den. My name is Dalen Hooks. I'm the vice president. Can I have his spelling, please? D A L E N H O Ks.

Thank you. I'm the vice president of Erie's Black Wall Street. Um, our primary use is professional services which qualifies under the C4 zoning. Um, as a nonprofit, um, a lot of the use for your building is non-traditional. So, we do plan on providing educational services. I don't know if you're familiar with our organization, but we do a lot of education on um, home buying um, and entrepreneurship. and that will be the primary use um which qualifies or which is falls under the C4 zoning. Um we're really going through this process because of the secondary use that we intend to use the building for, which is to let other small nonprofits have small meetings um or for us to gather for small meetings or small events in the space when we're not using it for our 9to-5 business use or professional use as a nonprofit. Okay, now let me speak. So this is Rhonda Matthews again. So the hardship aspect of this would be that any of the uses that for instance that you just um um listed would take a great deal of money way past our budget. Also those are not the things for which we will use this building. We are not we will not be offering dentistry services. We will not be offering a skating rink. we will not be offering those kinds of things. So if we if we were to to be asked to convert the building into those spaces, you'd actually be asking us to spend hundreds of thousands more dollars than we have in our budget to do so for uses that we don't plan to have.

Okay. For clarification purposes, I hear you. I thought I heard him say you were going to be using for meeting purposes, for educational purposes. Is is that true? Are you going to be renting out this building for commercial use of anybody else to use your building?

Other people will be able to use it. Yes. Um but for purposes of events uh and meetings um if people want to hold a meeting, they can rent the space um or they can reserve the space. Sometimes it'll be um a small fee for rental. Sometimes it'll be just uh to reserve the space. So there will be some fee involved for some of those types of events. Yep. Hang on.

Um again, this is Dalen Hooks and just to chime in on the answer, we don't intend to do concerts or like big huge commercial events. The space is not equipped for that. We're talking about other nonprofits to have board meetings or for um a a a small church to have a board meeting. We're not trying to do like a fee for entry concert or some type of large event that you would do downtown or at like Rainbow Gardens or places like that. That's not the the intent here.

Just to clarify, this is Lydia Caparosa, solicitor. Um so on your application you indicated that EBWS is seeking commercial recreation designation to align with building codes for assembling people. So the building code and the zoning code are two different components. And so when I look at the definition of commercial recreation in the zoning ordinance, it's a commercial or institutional facility which offers various recreational opportunities for its patrons, including but not limited to such as indoor concerts, psychic readings, computer use, golf course, bowling, ice skating, swimming pools, video, and various games. Um, is that what you're meaning to do with commercial recreation or are you looking to do more so with meeting space for nonprofits? the meeting space. So, we we part of our part of the explanation that we were given is that even though what it is that we want to do is not technically in the letter of the zoning um ordinances that this is where this is the category under which it was placed, our request was placed. So, that's why that's there. But no, we won't be doing any of those things. As Dalen just said, I'm sorry, this was Ronda Matthews again.

This is Ed Dawson. And then to Amy, then why the request for a commercial?

I can explain that completely. This is what the predecessors have used as meeting assembly space for these types of events or education or you know some sort of baby shop, anything like that is going to qualify under the commercial recreation use. At this time we do not currently have a definition for event center. So this is what uh predecessors before me have chosen. So as I understand it that's the precedent that this board has set just because you know there's no there's no updated language to fit the kinds of activities that we will be doing. And then to our attorney,

and if I can just chime in again, the reason why we acquired these buildings is because of the rich history and in this footprint of this particular neighborhood. Um, it's really um designed to mock after a lot of the things that the Prince Hall did in that space that they had been doing for years. We want to continue that work and they had already been in this building doing those similar things. So we didn't think that it would be an issue to continue that legacy and that history in this neighborhood. Yes, Mr. Dawson. Once again, then why the need for commercial use?

Again, I know that this is a past practice um maybe under either the previous administration or the prior zoning officer um or the chief zoning officer rather. Um, so it may be something to evaluate how we're applying if there's no commercial use. I guess Miss Francis, if for example, if there was a church because a church/place of worship is permitted there. I mean, there's I assume meeting rooms there that people use. Do we um make any requirements when a church is going in there about meeting rooms at all?

So, all of that's going to a church is going to have its own designation. We have a you know a definition for that. Um in building code when we don't excuse me this is how it's explained to me when we don't have a specific use that's stated we have to look at what is the build what are they trying to do they're trying to assemble people at this time. So then we have to find that best definition that we do have that fits here because they want to there the other use was office which is permitted.

Yeah. Professional services. So again, this is just for that secondary to help with the building code toad to keep building code, excuse me, to keep those kinds of things together and to keep it uniform. Okay. I guess I just struggle a little bit because again, the building code and the zoning code are it's two separate. It's not been an easy one to define. In the next zoning ordinance, I do hope to define event space.

Okay. Yeah. So I think again past practice I mean it's up to some of it is an interpretation by the zoning officials that are reviewing this. So um but I I don't think within the meaning of commercial recreation at least as it's defined that this is what they're intending we're not going to be having psychic readings and um skating concerts skating rings you know and that was their first question to me was what do you mean we're commercial racks? So, and again, we've had to explain this one quite a few times to much of the public.

So, so I guess my concern with that would be if we sandwich that into commercial use like that. It's not what you guys are going to do with it. We hope it's there forever and what you guys want to do with it. It's somebody who comes after. But I think we have the ability to restrict that, right? Restrict out almost all of those things in the commercial uses thing. I think we could probably place reasonable conditions on what's going on there. Not just a blanket. You can put whatever commercial recreation you want in there. Okay. Are are you saying um for us or are you talking about a blanket statement for you specifically for this specific property? Okay. I I think that's what you're meaning, Mr. Zel. Correct.

Okay. Yeah. in those conditions they're as long as they're conforming with the complying with that um if they change that and do something different. If they wanted to for instance start having concerts and we said that you couldn't have concerts then they would need to come back to request permission to have concerts um or install a skating rink or um that those types of things. But um if there's a change in the zoning code though that supersedes everything that we've granted permission for and allows it to be a permitted use, then you wouldn't have to come back here. Okay, that's so yeah, that changes down the road from a zoning perspective.

Okay, that's a zoning office question, not necessarily a me question, but yeah. Okay, so this is Rhonda Matthews again. So my question would be um that this permission I guess is the best way that I can describe it. this permission would be specific to us for this particular variance request for this particular building. Right. Um and so it it's not blanket. It's not a generalized change for anyone else but specific to what it is that we're doing. Correct.

Okay. So in in that permission, what I'd like to make sure of is that just as that this the current definition of of uh commercial wreck is broad that that we are not restricted in your language from the things that we are trying to do with that building. Correct. Okay. So the restriction we were talking about is that you're not going to hold concerts, you're not going to have psychic readings, you're not going to have a skating rink in there. If we were to grant this variance today, the reasonable condition would be that the variance is granted based upon the very narrow definition of commercial wreck that you've put in your application. And that's it.

Yeah. All right. That makes sense. Yeah. Okay. All right. Any other questions from the board? Nothing for me. No. All right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else to speak in favor of this request? Anyone to speak in favor? Last call. Anyone to speak in favor of this request? Hearing none. Anyone here in opposition of this request? Anyone in opposition? Last call. Anyone in opposition? All right. Hearing none. We are going to take a brief executive session and then we back out on the record. Thank you for your patience and thank you for your patience with all the clunkiness today. This is not the best look for the zoning hearing board, but we'll do better. Thank you. All right. Thank you for your patience as we deliberated some very complex requests. It is the purview of the board that we're going to make a motion today to table both of these requests for further information. Solicer, did you have any further comment for the record?

No, I do not. Okay. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Mr. Dawson. All those in favor? I I

Okay. Any opposed? All right. For both of the applicants today, Miss Francis will be in touch with you accordingly to let you know which agenda onto which agenda these requests will land, whether that's the special meeting that's coming up next week or if that will be the regular meeting in June. And with that, I think that was the last thing on the agenda for today. So the only thing that's left is a motion to adjourn. So move. Thank you, Mr. Dawson. Thank you all. Thank you.