Airport Economic Development Advisory Board - Regular Meeting

K. Today is Thursday, September 8, and, calling to order the meeting of the Erie Airport Economic Development Advisory Board. We'll Okay. Call Michael Stoebe. Here. The phone or? Yep. Dowling. There's Paul. He's here. Who do claim? Jennifer Webb? K. Clive present, we have quorum. Pledge of allegiance.

To the flag of The United States Of America and to the republic for which it stands, our nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Does everybody have a copy of the agenda? Everybody's read it? I think that's the one that's got one. Just Question, comments, edits, additions? Nothing. To approve. Second. Second.

Favor? Aye. Opposed? Great.

Alright. Public comment. This gentleman here is not. That's going to speak.

Where would we I don't think anybody else is trying to. Right? Zoom. Are they able to Zoom in to do public comment? I don't. Yeah. I think so. Okay. I'm gonna assume there isn't. We have to come back. We'll come back. K. August 21 minutes. Everybody's got a copy. Everybody's seen it. This is the one with Michael Bell.

They're just with the staple. Any comments,

questions, concerns, edits? Motion to approve. But Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. Great. So if you're general business, officer reports, one thing I really have to offer is number one, said before in front

of these jokers, say it again. Excellent job.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. It happened if it wasn't for you and

And a bunch of other people. Okay. Jason.

Oh, yeah. You too. A little bit. Yeah. I was there.

Anyways, did we ever get the numbers? I you know what? I think we're around 5,000.

Is that more or less than that?

I think it felt like it was more. It looked like it was. So I thought the last one was close to that number, but I think we might have been a little bit shy of that. So, yeah, it it's I think we're easily at 5,000. So it would be safe to say as much, if not more. Definitely. Yeah. I I think the parking lot was more full. The ramp and everything felt like there was more people than last time.

Yeah. Mhmm. It was good feedback. I didn't hear anybody, maybe the exception of one person. Mostly positive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even to the point where they want him to do every year, which is not gonna happen. Doctor excitement's not gonna happen.

I think very careful, Holly. Seconds. I think there are probably winds of change coming our way, and we're gonna have to do a really good job of what we're trusted to do because I think there's probably some negative stuff coming towards us. I don't think it Yeah. But we need to just

before Halloween, you gotta say something. Well,

being a political guy, I'm just reading the political landscape, and I think we really got our work cut out for us in the coming months. I think it's It will become more apparent as we experience it, but I don't wanna create a big thing here. The other thing I will add is looking at the calendar, I think we should decide now either to not do Novembers because it happens on Thanksgiving Day. Yeah. Or reschedule it to a different day.

So ponder that. You don't have to decide right away. By next meeting, we have to.

And it depends on if anything's going on

with the ordinance? Yeah. I mean, we'll

get to that too. It's part of the agenda. But Yeah. I just kinda looked at calendar. I noticed the twenties. Thanksgiving Day is the fourth Thursday, obviously, of the month. Same date. This is the thirtieth. First third. I think no. I think we're double checked, but I thought we were going to bump up against Thursday, Thanksgiving Day. Correct me if I'm wrong. Just a second. Anyways, it's not that important to come on.

November. The twentieth would be our next meeting. So it's not Thanksgiving? No. Okay. Great. It's a week before.

I just said. Week before. That's all I really have about you.

Other than pat yourself in the back. No. You won't do that. As far as vice chair, Paul and I went to just three days after airfare, went to the town council meeting and presented our biannual report, which at that point in time was really too soon to, like, provide a lot of detail about the airfare, which I knew was gonna happen. But the big thing I wanted to discuss and what I presented at that was the 2025 CDOT study on economic impact.

Mhmm. So I had to kinda whittle it down because of size constraints, but the 2025 study said that the economic impact of this airport was approximately $23,000,000. To the town of Erie and surrounding area. To the town, yeah, and surrounding areas. There's a bunch of numbers that go into that. There's the numbers that the way they get the numbers I know you councilor Castorelli, you had asked about that before. They it's a long process, and they put out maybe you can answer this, Chase. They they contact you directly?

Yeah. They contact the FPO. They put out some flyers so when people come in, they can say where they're coming from, what they're doing in town. Okay. They also gather some data on based aircraft and those type of things. So it's Okay. It's a lot of data, but, yes, they they work directly with us. So they go to the airport managers,

and then they also contact the airport businesses, of which rough count that I did the other day, there's about 20 businesses that has direct access to the airport. And so there's the impact of capital improvement projects. There's the spending on administration. There's the payroll from the companies such Paul has one of them. Jason has one of them.

And the the payroll for that was, like, 3 and a half million alone. So I I think it's important that, you know, when you look at the investment that the town makes into the airport, the return is, you know, nearly 100 full when you look at that, those kind of numbers. So that was that was the gist of what I put forth in that. There were questions about well, every yeah. Most of it was about the airfare, but that was that was what happened, and Paul was there as well. Despite going at the end of the meeting, I think it went pretty well.

Yeah. I think our goal is always a short presentation. Spend more time gauging to you all and getting questions, trying to answer them, but I think so That's exactly we're Appreciate

the kind of different approach or different approach. Yeah. So

Yeah. That was that was kind of the point. I was trying to get that in there last time, but that didn't happen. See that it does this every five years. So there'll be another one after that.

What was the date of that one? 2025. What? Yeah. So it was very fresh.

Yeah. But the only thing that she said did you say they're thirty five years? Every five. Yep. Yeah. The number did go down from the last report.

Mhmm.

The reason is was the last consultant, they linked businesses that, for example, a business might have an airplane on the airport, but their business might not be located on the airport. And so the last consultant linked businesses and gathered data from that business as if it was on the airport were really those particular so there were some businesses there that were contributing to the last economic impact number that weren't really. So, like, this one's probably more accurate. With the data that we have that we're beginning to collect on operations, which will be a few months down the road. They'll be able to incorporate that because we'll have accurate operational numbers K.

Where we did where there were there were more estimates in the past. Thank you.

That's all I have for now.

I don't have a report for this.

Thanks for arranging. You had a lot to do with that drone. Mhmm. Thanks for getting that.

It was a good learning experience. It was a good exercise for them.

Cool at night.

Yes. It would be and it was.

Sure did.

It it was a couple nights ago when Erie High School had their bash on Briggs and what have you. I think the distance that the drones were from the audience played a role in them being harder to see, and we have to see if anything can be done about that potentially for future show.

Actually a cloud behind

it Right.

Which actually helped. But

Well, I was wondering, did it help, or would Blue have been a better background? I I don't I have no idea. They tried using strobes to allow you to see them, and what would have been very helpful is if people had been able to have a QR code or something to see the video of what was going to be presented, and they could have followed along and said, oh, you know, there's that. It's cool. Yep.

I've never seen that.

Yep.

Back to you in terms of their care.

Yeah. So thank you to the town. Council member pastor Marelli showed up. Mayor Pro Tem Bell showed up. Mayor Moore was there. Probably a bunch of people that I didn't see because didn't notice. I think I saw former trustee was there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

I did not see that. It it was a great event. I certainly appreciate the the town support. You know, it's great to see a huge crowd of people happy about the airport. So that was good. And and we had we had veterans organizations there. We had Alex. Same with their, you know, the stem.

It was the innovation center.

Innovation center was there. Ames Community College was there with their interactive tent. You know, a lot of good stuff for the kids to come in and and learn about aviation because sometimes it could be kinda like this unknown one. Uh-huh. So that was that was great. Angela Terry was a huge help as the co chair, and then Ryan Maloney and many others. Thank you, Michael, for setting up the the drone. Mhmm.

That

was that was that was a cool thing.

I the tent for the performance drone team had six to eight people talking to them throughout the entire time since I was manning our table and whatever. They were just

Was it little bit or was it the whole innovation and study?

Signage talked about the innovation center, but I think it was primarily about the drones. I don't know. I I didn't get a chance to actually go and talk to them. So

Yeah. I I know.

So we had we had a lot more help this time in the planning and execution. We had two more people participating, and then we had a designated air boss this time, which was highly helpful in organizing that end of it. And we had some surprises as usual with people showing up. The guy that was about to retire from the air force that showed up with his plane. Oh, cool.

That was kinda interesting. But, yeah, it was a great event, and, we'll do another one in two years. So I

think one thing that might be helpful next time in order to allow the participants to understand what's going on a little bit more would be a event wide audio system instead of just the stage. Yeah. You could really only hear it if you were saying in front of the stage, but if we announced this was happening, this was happening, this was happening throughout the air show, I think that that would have let people understand.

I mean, you were on the tent and near the stage of.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

But, yeah, you're right. I I I don't think there was a lot of announcing other than the one really cool thing that worked out is when I got up on stage and introduced Mare Moore. Mhmm. And and I was, like, looking at my watch because we had a plane up in the sky Yeah. About ready to drop the skydiver. And so he talked for a few minutes, and and then Bianca got up and did the national anthem. And I think he kinda delayed a little bit, but the timing worked out when the flag came down, she was kinda getting towards the end of it, It was just cool. That worked out really good. Mhmm.

So

We might even consider at least signage, if not handouts of the agenda or or the schedule at the gate to help people.

Yeah. I think for, like like, some, like, sandwich boards. You know?

Mhmm.

That yeah. That, I think, would be helpful. Yeah.

I would add my apology because I kinda dropped the ball. I feel I dropped the ball. But You brought the tent. This is where I'm going. I think collectively, we could probably plan a little better in terms of

The AEBAB. Report board presence. Absolutely. It's a science. And

It should have been a much more informative.

I just I just assumed he was taking care of it, which was my bad.

So one of the things I know, I think it was council member O'Connor that brought it up, but the, I think they're looking at sort of just a a joint budget for, Boost if it's, you know, if it's the farmer's market or other events we have or this event that we would have, yeah, we would have, like, tents available, and it's sort of just like you check them out so that, yeah, that's a little less burden on you guys to, like, oh, we gotta come up with our own stuff. And yeah. So that will hopefully be in the works. I mean, certainly in two years, I would hope it'd be there.

But Yeah. We should only say it so that we could plan ahead, and Yeah. We could have a much better presence, if you will. I mean, I'm just I'm gonna make sure all of Nobody even knew we were

all of next year, we're going to have a much better PR campaign for the the airport with a lot more information for the community to

Anyways absorb. Well, then the other thing too I've forgotten about is Erie that Rotary, I think, raised about $2,000. And so that money goes back into the community to do projects within the community. So That's great. It's a good, you

know, good good thing for them and the community. Mhmm. That's all I have in terms of Fairfair.

Just thank you to everybody that was yeah. It was a lot of work from you. And yeah. Okay. Go ahead.

Should add David Janowic with the recess factory. He's done Yeah. Nearly every one of these events through multiple parties. There's a local business that not only does this, does other town events, sets up the ice rink and ice Mhmm. So his his staff did amazing and handled the parking of 1,600 cars.

It was great to see all the community come together, and I saw the excitement in the kids' faces, like, seeing all the events over there. It was great. I was saying, can we do it every

year? Yeah. Like, this weekend is a huge air show up at Loveland, which they're doing every two years.

So alternate that will be

And and

and Longmont, they're doing every two years. Yep. And it it seems to be I I go to a lot of air events, and that seems to be kind of every two year. I wonder

if would do you think llama might let us have a booth that that there that that might be some more just sort of cross pollination that we could

yeah. Since Yeah. I could could ask, you know, board board manager there.

Agent there is the same year as ours that they do in No.

No. They they went last summer. Now they they have the benefit of much more space. Yeah. And so they actually are able to Do more. Close the airspace, not just the airport, and

do a full blown. And they've got four rows of tarmac for static displays.

They, yeah, they, yeah, they have a bigger rail space too. Yeah. And then they they put vendors down this one road. Yep. I wanna think they had 9,000 people. Oh, Recess Factory did the parking on that one too. That one as well. Cool. Community engagement. Anything to report other

than

No. Just rep other other than, like I said, for 2026 or what have you, I'm gonna really plan a whole PR campaign that participates in the summer long Thursday night things, the touch a truck, the spring festival, you know, everything that the town does put on will have an opportunity to be able to provide some education and engagement with the community.

I wanted to put on the agenda review and questions regarding the airport fund report, which we got last meeting. Just wanted to make sure if y'all had any questions regarding that since we all poured over it so intently since it was presented to us. Anybody have any questions? You know what I'm talking about. Rough, buddy.

Well, I'll just recap a little bit on my side from the airfare. I mean, I agree with everything. We've all talked about it. We're off really well. The kid stuff was great.

The innovation stuff was great, but logistically, from a safety standpoint, I felt like it went really well as, you know, I'm always looking at it from that perspective, the success of the amount of people and the kids and all that, all the things that are there to do. It isn't secondary, but, you know, with all the moving parts, there's a lot of opportunity for things, you know, safety concerns and stuff like that. I felt like, you know, between the parking and the volunteers and, you know, the opportunities there were for people to come in off Highway 7 and potentially jam up Airport Drive, and then that stuff really happened. And so I was happy to see logistically how well everything went off. That's a testament to and that Angelo, Tiers, Reese's Factory.

And So it's really good to get one of things over with and everybody's safe, and everybody had a good time. So I appreciate all the efforts that everybody put in. So I'll just reiterate that. As far as other things, the construction on the airport was delayed. They were supposed to cut across the taxiway, that accesses the flight park and the Schofield Hangars. The fifteenth through the seventeenth, that came to a screeching halt when they dug out some tires and a couple batteries and a couple propane bottles that were from the eighties. Is

that right?

What a great combination. Somebody called

us You were hoping they wouldn't find those.

Yeah. Well, that's not that that even predates me. So, you know, they say found some tires that had nineteen eighties in it. And so, yeah, it's it came to a screeching halt. I just got a message today that they're looking to reschedule that.

So it sounds like they've gotten past it, but they kinda shut it down till they could make sure there was no hazmat issues or anything like that. So and then our other project, which the the sewer is not really necessarily our project, but it's impacting the airport, but our capital approval project for this year, which is the relocation of the runway light vault, which runs all the lighting for the airport. That's probably gonna be pushed to the spring just because of mostly Excel's schedule, their ability to provide the support that. So Should

we decide if we're gonna put it now?

It's I don't know if it's a 100%, but it's probably gonna be looking very close to that. Sorry.

I'll bet you. So How big is it? Is this like a bunker?

Yeah. I mean, not just It doesn't matter. Yeah. It no. I mean, the one that's on the backside of the building is is gonna be the same size. Yeah. It it holds couple big regulators, a breaker panel, and probably has some room for expansion in it. So it's the size of a large walk in closet, probably. That's $350,000.

Is that solely for the purposes of all the lighting and infrastructure at the airport? The lighting specifically. And they will pull a line because the line is already there for the tractor building, I call it.

Yeah. Yes, sir. Yeah.

So certainly knowing it. Proximity to that becomes important.

Yeah. That I mean, it it just makes sense for it to be there. That's the, you know, kind of the maintenance building for the airport. So there's already utility there, and so there there's a lot of things that go hand in hand with that location. So

That's won't interfere with where you might dream a new terminal would be?

So. That that's one of the other reasons to put it close to the SRE Building is that Yep. That space has already been reserved for that Mhmm. Use. So, there were some other little places that were little nooks and crannies on the airport, but, you know, from a servicing standpoint, you know, if there's tools and equipment inside the snow removal building that we would use to service the the equipment that will be in that, vault. So I just I I think it makes more sense.

Are we gonna charge off the electric aircraft?

Yeah. I mean, we that's been a question, but we

don't If one And if and if you're asking if it will impact building by the location, no problem.

That's that's what I have data on projects at the airport. So and I did mention that we we are starting to gather data on operations. So the equipment's been installed. The software's being tested. There's a lot of input that we have to do.

Most likely be presenting that data as part of the board reports that and I can provide the same report here, but they'll be presented as part of

reporting. So you wanted at least six months of data to

Yeah. Just to make sure that yeah. And there's some opportune there's the ability to put in some of the based aircraft so you can kinda differentiate between base aircraft and non base aircraft.

Does that involve any, camera based image processing related to detect things in the air?

It's all done off ADS B, which is the transponder systems that are in most plates.

I was amazed at what is up in Norco with the I mean, those computers know everything that's going on within five, ten miles of that airport, whether you can see it or not, whether

The virtual tower of that.

It's amazing.

Yeah. It's too bad the controllers don't know the system.

Yeah. So you just had

a in there and they're like, where are you coming from? I'm not from here, so I don't really know where you're talking.

So I just donated my iPhone iPad. You know? Here's an iPad with around the middle of traffic app.

So Five miles directly to the south, buddy. Because he didn't know we're here. I think I said, come to the very fly. Like,

don't know where that

Where is he? Okay. Dee, update from council on proposed ordinance change.

So I don't have anything specific other than to say. The next time we will talk on the budget is gonna be October 28. There is going to be it sounds like another airport study session. I don't know when that is is going to occur, and my hope is that that will involve this group too. So I need to talk with Malcolm there, counselor customer only to get that set up. So that's that's TBD.

Last month, you said it might be able to be included on the agenda in the board retreat. Is that still a possibility?

We had the board retreat, and unfortunately, that was yeah. The the vast majority of that board retreat was about, like, town priorities and Yeah. Yeah, which the there you could go to this past Tuesday's meeting and there is, if you go to the agenda on there, there is a spreadsheet that kinda shows just it's was basically all the town projects that are currently underway at just sort of raking staff, like, we're, you know, what what we're gonna try to concentrate on for for twenty twenty six with budgetary priorities because the the budget's coming up. So so I'm hoping that we can get something. It's probably not gonna occur on the twenty third, but there's this there's a study session on October 7.

And there's a regular meeting on October 14. So, hopefully, one of those two, we can get some things.

We can open that soon.

I I am hoping so because but if you get to the twenty eighth, it's gonna be hard to get it in for this budget session or for for '26. So that's yeah. So I will shoot an email off to Sarah.

When you find out or get

a sense as to when

that might happen from a calendar point of view, can you let me us know? Yep. Because just a reminder for everybody, we have a meeting here Yep. From today. Yep. Study session. The sole purpose of the study session is to discuss fees and defense fees. And my desire, goal would have been discuss it, but then have a vote in terms of what we would propose for the fees at the October meeting. Okay. K?

If your meeting was having was happening on the fourteenth, I might suggest that we have our meeting early.

Mhmm.

Okay. So that by the time you have your meeting or the next you said you were gonna have a study session on the airport. It would be ideal if we had a proposal in terms of fees that we came up with at that study session. Okay. Yeah. We can't we can't vote on it Thursday. We can only talk about it, but then we could vote on it at the next meeting. How's that sound?

Yep. Yep.

Just wanna keep Definitely. Mean, that's think that's what a part of the ordinance. Right? Yes. Segment of the ordinance is not the entire ordinance. The ordinance covers more than that. Fun. But fun Yeah. Includes fees, which is what we intend to talk about next week.

Sure.

Yep. Alright. If you all in anticipation of that, I know you also get jammed up in the work travel schedule. But if you see that something in that part of October, potential meeting happening early is going to be a conflict, let me know. Obviously, we don't wanna have a early meeting if we can't get everybody least core up there to talk about it. Ideally, I'd like to have all seven people there because we have a vote. I wanna make sure everybody can vote on it.

Yeah.

Yeah. I will be out of the country in the October.

Just to look. We'll we'll figure it out. And then it may it may not become an issue if your meeting, your study session for the airport

gets a different day. Yeah. Anyways.

Did you all watch the airport study session that they did have? There was that came out of that section e. Right? And I just wanted to put that out there so that we could get you all to come in. So Explain to us because this was requested by Julian to put on the agenda last month, and we missed it. But there were some directives that came out of that study session. Right?

Yes. A part of that so we had that executive session, which can't talk much about that, but there was we we we were talking about specific to to hangers and and and development, around the airport property and that's probably as much as I can Sure. Say on that. The but, the the the second part, and I guess, I I don't know, Stephanie, I know if Julian filled you in on any of that because I know there was another, another group that apparently was I I think there was some question over whether there's another group that wanna do another study, and I don't remember the dollar amount, but I guess we were questioning since we had the the $100,000 study that wasn't that long ago is are we gonna get anything different than what we we've gotten two years ago, but I I haven't had chance to talk to Julian about it.

Yeah. You should see my notes that

he get well, that I

took off him for this meeting. It's pretty bad. Yeah. The truth is I don't know.

So Okay. There you

So I think maybe

I think for the benefit of every everyone that was here, this did not get put on the agenda because I didn't submit what Julian sent me to the town clerk to get it on the agenda. I didn't get it and send it in time for the agenda. Your agenda, which you always do, had already been submitted, so we couldn't add this to last month's agenda Right. Per Julian's request. One of the subjects was do we want to spend money to have someone come in and tell us what we should be charging for

the new fees? And and I thought the question was, didn't didn't we No.

It wasn't a question. We all You you you proposed that I said no. We had a vote. We all agreed. I think it was unanimous. No. We don't wanna spend the money, particularly students. Yeah. You know, we're getting a lot of heat these days from, oh my god. You spend so much money on the airport. Well, okay. Fine. So we're not gonna spend any money. It's fine. We're all pretty bright guys, gals here.

I think we can do a really good job. And the part that you all didn't understand or I didn't understand it at the time, there were three people here sitting in this meeting. Those individuals were from the consulting firm that had contacted Julian and trying to push the issue to get a consulting fee to do what it is that we said we don't want them to do. They were here.

That's who they

He knows this. Julian knows this. Julian probably told you. I don't know if he did or not. I have a huge problem with that.

Okay.

Yeah. I don't think any record. Yeah. Nobody knew. Nobody knew when they did not introduce themselves, and they didn't come here and say, hey. We're here. K? Bad form whoever you are. Don't do it again. Yeah. K? That's what prompted this. Yeah. Okay. So as far as my conversations with Julian and you all, it's like if you're gonna be a consultant wanting to get a contract that affects what the airport board is gonna do, let us know you're here and be upfront and tell us what you're here for and then don't just sit there in the corner and don't say anything because there were a number of emails after the fact.

And, frankly, it was a little put offish because he's saying we don't know what we're doing. That's essentially what that consultant said. There's no possible way they can we could get it right because we don't know what they're doing. I take exception to that, and I'm just letting you all know what has been going on behind the scenes. And just stressed last month that we could take a first stab at it

and maybe do 80% of the work and then farm out.

Oh. And that individual was sitting right here in this room and never slept.

So so just to so my understanding here. So the 2023 study, we we haven't implemented any of those fee schedules, right, that they wrecked that they wrecked. No. I get I guess my question and we'll bring this back to council because that's part of what the the airport the future airport study session would would be to discuss fees. So that's why I think we need to get input from this for some

of week. That's where we are too. Yeah. Yeah.

So with respect to that, it it's like it seems like what I I it's it's been a few years, so I can see, you know, inflation, things like that that, you know, prices maybe need to be adjusted on that. But I I think probably from this group, what would be helpful is to figure out, is there a delta between what we got from the 2023 study and what we need to know now. And I agree with you, it doesn't I don't think it makes sense to bring in an entirely new group when we with respect to the public's money, know, we spent $100,000 on that study. We didn't implement any of the fee schedules from that and to it's just from speaking for

myself to implement future money on on Great. Doing essentially the same thing. Yeah. So Wealth of information that was provided in that other study that we spent our money on. All these people here are very bright people. He's gonna be there. Sure. We have a good sense as to what other airports are charging for through defense fees, and he's got a huge amount of historical knowledge, which will be imparted to everybody in next week's study session to kinda hash it out and figure out, okay. What are the options?

Sure.

Yeah. Well, I think I don't think we need to spend more money to get those answers at this point.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it's conceivable that with the the the consulting information that we have in 2023, we could have just implemented that fee structure back then. So Yeah. I think it's pretty simple to just say, look. You know, in 2023, the, these are the the rates that we potentially could have put in place, and then you just look at, I think one thing that I've always advocated for was because it's an ordinance, if that's how it ends up being again, we should put an escalator in there so that we don't have to come back and revisit this.

You know? That makes sense.

That part of what we discussed.

So you just take the 2023, and you decide what the escalator's gonna be, and that's '20 the 25 number. Okay. So I don't wanna spend too much time to labor on it

now because we'll have plenty of time to do it next week. That is the only reason we're having that meeting is to discuss the defense duties and structure and whatnot. Yeah. Anyways, again, trying to make sure you all understood what the one on the scenes. Yeah. Yeah.

It's good for good for the public. Yeah. Yeah. We were not nothing's really going on. It was, yeah, unbeknownst to us and yeah. So yeah.

And for them to come in here somewhat covertly to strategize how to propose. It's a little shady.

I don't know if I'd use that word. It it I just don't appreciate it Yeah. Bad form. And then the the planet that I live on in the political world, which is my business, no Yeah. I I don't think

they helped their cause, but

as far as I'm concerned

I think if they had made comments, they could have helped themselves. They could have Yeah. Little little sales pitch from during public comment. Sure. Right. Yeah. You know, maybe they could have convinced us that they did. We didn't. You know? At

a minimum Yeah. Or the meeting starts. Hey. I'm so and so from this company. Just you don't mind if I sit in. How do we know? Problem no problem. Yep. Yeah. And I would've had a discussion with them one on one at after the meeting. I had no idea until the meeting was over until the next day that Julian reached out to me that I found out that no, dude. Yeah. One other item I'll be around. I think everybody's probably interested in putting in their 2¢. Number two, letter d.

And that is.

They all earn 2¢ to put into it. Yeah.

Yeah. Why don't we go around around the table?

Yeah. Okay. That's a good idea to start with on this side, we'll go around and spend Let me just

board member first or What's that? You want me to speak as an onboard member first?

Does that matter? Well, what is the other way you can speak as other than interested As a

bring bring in the information as a

As network manager.

As a

Yeah. You serve a lot

of roles. Hey. If you want me to talk, I'll talk. Yeah. Yeah.

Just make sure we everybody can have it, and I'll go last.

Yeah. I mean, I there's a lot of things going on with airport fees. Historically, other airports, airports in California. There's a group called Vector, ironic. Just No connection. No connection. Yeah. That that actually collects those fees. They got sued by an airport up in Montana for collecting airport fees on general aviation aircraft. They lost, my understanding.

I haven't read the details on it. They've actually they're probably one of a couple businesses that are focused on collecting those fees for municipalities that wanna do that. They have actually, my understanding is they will not collect airport user fees on aircraft under £6,000. Cost to collect the fee and the success of collecting those fees, they're averaging $25 to collect a fee. A lot of them are not getting collected, air aircraft.

The data they're using, sometimes an aircraft someone might own an airplane. They might have several homes. They may base that aircraft out of state. They may have it under a business name. A lot of times, the the fee is going to nobody or to a place that doesn't exist. And so difficulty in, collecting them, the low success rate for the small general aviation aircraft. Then there becomes a difficulty of how do you administer it. I think the FAA has got something to say about that. I'm not gonna speak on the FAA's behalf, obviously, but I think the FAA is gonna step in. You know, who do you who do you administer those fees to?

Do you not administer them to people that are based on the airport, administer them to other people that are coming in? Do you only administer them to, flight school aircraft? You know, all this becomes really complicated. The FAA is usually their position is is that what what's for one is for all. And so now you start penalizing your base aircraft, and, so that gets really complicated.

I think there's a probably a push within the FAA. You got an hour to speak for the FAA, but the equipment that allows us to use and administer these fees is called ADS B. It's a transponder that aircraft were required to have most aircraft were required to have as of 2020. The one of the biggest issues, let's so that's a piece of equipment that's in your airplane that you can turn off and on, and that piece of equipment is responsible for sending out traffic data to other airplanes, and we live are equally one of most congested pieces of airspace in the country because of the four airports that are in close proximity. And then we've got mountains, and we've got a big international airport that, kinda make a little tunnel of activity.

But a perfect example would be if an airplane came over to Erie, and there were two or three airplanes that were doing practice landings. And if we did have fees, a person considerably shut off that equipment. They become invisible to other airplanes, and now they don't have to pay the fee. But now you're taking a piece of vital safety equipment, and you're disabling it in the interest of not paying a fee. So Colorado Pass Association has a really good section on their website that talks about the concerns. Most So of the things I've talked about, they have links to the lawsuit in Montana, things like that. But, ultimately, most of the places where they administer fees are they're doing it to discourage general aviation activities?

It's actually the FAA says that it you cannot do that.

Yep. So

You you cannot use it to prohibit airport operations or discriminate any type of aircraft. Detriment.

Yeah. Is is that from,

Google AI?

That yeah. But it came from General Aviation News and other places if you want.

Could you send me that link?

Yeah. Mhmm.

So you you take the the challenges and the cost, you know, to try to you know, it was brought up in the context of generating revenue for the airport, and I think that there's plenty of data out there to say they'll do the complete opposite of that. So if you're not doing it for that, then you're doing it to discourage the business that you're in. We're in the general aviation business where general aviation are important, and we're discouraging general aviation operations. That seems a little counterintuitive, but, you know, I would equate it to you know? And all you're gonna do is push the problem around.

You know? You're gonna and right now, in a perfect world, we're all kinda sharing, you know, all the air traffic that's happening in the train traffic, which is one of the biggest concerns, but we're all sharing it if one airport administers landing fee, and now all that train traffic goes to Longmont, Then Walmart does what then, eventually, you just end up pushing it all to, you know, one municipality. That's where the FAA, I think, comes in and says, no. That's that's not fair. It's not fair to push it.

You know? If it got extreme enough, we would have them at all these airports around here, then everybody goes agree. Well, it's not fair to agree really to have to burden all that. I mean, the reason the FAA invests in the and puts capital into our airport is to relieve the burden from the other airports. We're all sharing that burden, and that's why, that's why we're a federally funded airport because we're part of the structure. It's like adding a road. You know? They they they fund our airport so that we can relieve the pressure from the other airports, and that's how that's why we exist. And so that's just some of the data. I I would encourage you to go to Colorado Pass Association.

They've done a really good ride up on it. There's a lot of links on there. You know, in in other countries, general aviation user fees are pretty prevalent, and they essentially don't have general aviation. It kills general aviation. So you don't wanna be in general aviation business there. That's what it's a good way to do it. So

So we put you down against.

Yeah. You put me against. Yeah. No. I I mean, honestly, I mean, I'm for generating revenue for the airport if I thought it was a good idea to do it, but I think the data's out there, and then then you've got the safety aspects of it, then you got the FAA's potential opposition to it. So And it would be detrimental to our long term objectives of the airport.

Kevin. I think the economics of it alone make it not very attractive, but I think that combined with the regulatory difficulties that you would face make it really challenging to see any positives in implementing that kind of plan.

And I mean, keep in mind, the FAA has the ability to pull their funding immediately if they don't like it. I mean, so, you know, maybe we On the naughty list. Maybe we collect 20 or 30 I don't know what the number would be, but, you know, if we collect $50,000 a year every year in landing fees, that's Get out of there.

That's pennies.

That's pennies compared to the if if they decide to pull what now is probably 25 or $30,000,000 they've invested in this airport over the last thirty years. So

you have a comment on one way

or the other,

or is it appropriate for town staff not to say monorail? I

don't don't know.

About the the fees? Planning fees.

I as far as I know, I mean, everything I knew that FAA is not a fan of it, and that is what Julian told me. So I know that. But I he didn't pass on whether or not we were in favor or not in favor. Just and I think we do wanna keep the FAA happy. A lot of the other decisions we've made as a group have been based on that. So

We just have a donation to her in the FBI.

We need the raise money from

the people that land here. I think it's a

bad idea for many reasons. Sir, come come back to me. Whatever. I wanna hear from you guys first.

Watch. Yeah. No. I'm not a fan. I don't

think

it's a revenue generator for us that, you know, is low hanging fruit. So

And there's not much of it.

ADS B, you know, when it was sold to the pilot community starting back in '15 or so, it was never intended to be revenue generator. It was always about safety. Right. You have to take a system that was sold to a community of safety oriented and say, now we're gonna make a revenue generator is disingenuous, and I don't think we have to support

They've even gone to the extent they are not allowing the ADS B data to take action against pilots because it's the same thing. I mean, you put this the FAA talks you put in this equipment. This equipment varies from five to 20,000 to even more than that for the bigger airplanes. They FAA wants you to put that equipment in there, and then you put it there, and now they use that data, you know, the date where maybe you accidentally were too low or too high or you know

You get people afraid to use it near in the airport.

Right. Right.

And to my point, I mean, it's it's you can disable it.

I certainly don't want anybody turning off their ADS B. Me neither. Not where we live. Yeah. Yep.

That doesn't work.

I won't Jason? I've got relevant comment. Oh, sorry.

We be

after the So we can't. Okay. Yeah. It's it's only the public comment period. Yeah. That's I appreciate the audio, unfortunately, we can't. No problem.

I don't have any topic.

Do we have enough time for your

oh, yeah. No. I I mean, Jason Jason covered 99% of of what and we had we had a conversation about that before. There's definitely a safety aspect here. If you're discouraging people from, you know, practicing, and you know, because practicing leads to proficiency, which leads to safety.

And so I I think it would be a detriment to safety, and I and I also think, you know, there could be an issue with with grantsurances in the FAA. So I I I I'm not not a fan of it. And, you know, out of the 66 airports we have in Colorado, there might be a handful, you know, that charge it for commercial traffic, and that that makes sense. You know, that's a very logical thing. You talked about the 6,000 pound, you know, rule for collecting on that. We don't get I mean, we may have, what, three airplanes above 6,000 pounds

Right.

At your rate. GA airports are supposed to be serving the general public aviation community that they're charging. That's all I have.

Here's what I have that you've purchased. I'm gonna use an example of Humboldt County, California. They have $23 landing fees that they initiated countywide. And then the pilot apps, as you all know, you can put comments in the airports. This is just one of them, but it's pretty universal. Do not land here. $22 landing fee charged off your ADS B. This also applies to four other airports in the county. I used to fly into all three airports and spend my money. I will avoid at all cost.

This county hates general aviation. That is the universal perception in my mind by pilots. What happens in agreement with you is people stop coming here. People stop buying gas. The idea of ever building a restaurant at the airport to get people to fly in, it's never gonna happen.

Well And then guys like me who face their airplanes at Erie Airport, if I'm gonna be charged a landing fee, guess what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna move. I'm gonna leave the area, and I'm gonna put my plane in a different airport because I don't wanna pay it, and I don't think I should pay it. This is what's happening in Humble County, California. It's just a random one that I found looking at places. The reason I found it is because my cousin lives in Humboldt County, and I wanted to go fly and visit her.

And it's even having the the concept is having effects on retail malls as they start charging their customers for parking at the mall.

The attendance is going way down. Another example would be, let's put a toll booth on Erie Parkway to help pay for roads. Guess what? Nobody's gonna come to Erie. So in the long run, it ends up hurting a lot more than the revenue you would get for that. Yeah.

Anyways But imagine the impact of the the economic impact number that we're talking about. I mean That'd be huge. You know, someone's flowing in from another state, and those are the primary people that are affecting the economic impact. Correct. And they're looking at three airports saying, well, I can't wait to pay 25 or $50 or whatever. I can go to Longmont Land for free. Well, that's another ten minutes for me to drive from Longmont where I was gonna go. So it's like, well, we lose that economic impact.

Yeah. They'll do it just on principle, Nathan.

Yeah. That's right.

Yeah.

Yes, sir. So I'm just waiting for me. Obviously, I had some concerns around this. I think one of the big things is that I'm I when this came up at the I'm trying to remember that study session. It's in August. It's in August. Yeah. So It's August. I was a little thrown back from it because it was the first time that I'd heard of that. That was not in the in the 2023 study.

So I don't I don't know where that came out of other than it sounded like from from Malcolm that may have been in in some staff discussions. So I think that this is why and I I had a other email that I copied Malcolm on That, you know, I talked about just generally with the airport. It's like, you know, we we hire the town hires Jason to to manage the airport. And so we need to be those those types of, discussions, I think we need to make sure we involve you and that also in addition to decisions that the council makes that, just like any other advisory boards that flow through here and then it comes to council. So I see a little, disconnect in in our process, which I'll address, you know, some point in our council meeting where where, when you guys meet next well, I'll be here too.

But when when the study session meets, now you can't vote at that study session, but I I would suggest that there is a formalized vote on this that that goes to council. So there's a recommendation from Sure. Airport board to this so that that, when we have, our council discussion that that that can that can flow up. So, I think, yeah, there's some I understand the the thought process on on why they wanna have this in here, but this this to me seems like a solution looking for a problem more than, yeah, trying trying to resolve something. And I I know that there's been a few groups that have been, you know, the the the the touch and go landing thing has come up before, but that is a when you're retaining your pilot's license, that's a general maneuver that every pilot's expected to to be able to perform and and yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah. With respect to restricting general aviation, that that that's I'm sure that's gonna run some things with with with the FAA. I think that's, you know, talking about outreach and things like this, you know, that may be something we we consider. I I wanna be careful in this group that we don't go outside the scope of what this group is, and I don't I don't think it's it's not really our job to, feel resident resident complaints about aviation that that should go to the airport through Jason.

But I I think, you know, we can through outreach to education pieces just because a lot of people aren't aware that, yeah, when a plane's in the air, that's that's a phase domain. The town has no say over that. And and so while we do control things like fees and things like that, we we do need to be careful because we are getting the grant money from the FAA. And I think that's another piece the the the public needs to know because that's, yeah. There there's a lot of money in that that we could, potential ham hamper other things we're trying to do with the with budget if we start messing with that.

In in my mind, you're better served creating more activity for, say, gas.

I think And you'd

be better off adding 2¢ a gallon to the gas to generate the revenue by sheer numbers that would north that offset over a period of time, what you might get for a short period of time in landing fees. Sure. I think it's just a just a ill informed solution that creates a bigger problem. Yeah.

Yeah. So I'm doing some digging with, just talking with, some staff people and just figuring out, like, where I was kinda thrown for a loss when that came up. So I'm I'm trying to the other thing is is that and and I'm happy to meet with I I I know you mentioned you've reached out to a lot these groups, and I'm I'm happy to meet with any member of the public to to talk about these things. I work right by Rocky Mountain Airport, and I know, you know, they went through, whole brouhaha with, you know, there was a group that tried to sue the airport, and it was just, you know, a big long drawn out thing and it and it and then the dad, I think it got thrown out. Right?

I mean yeah. So it's yeah. I I think

we we we I

mean, you know, I know you guys wanna be good neighbors and I I think that's I was just saying and then I know that I think you've told a couple of times you've maybe had some problem children that you've been aware of and you've gone out and dealt with Yeah.

I think ultimately Yeah. You know, I think from this board standpoint, I think the recommendation needs to be, is this really a moneymaker? Because it's an economic board.

Yeah. Yeah. That's Yeah.

Start talking about, you know, are we gonna use this for other purposes?

Yeah. That that gets outside

of I think that gets outside the scope of board site. I think the you know, it is a, user fees or landing fees as a viable source of revenue. One would be the last thing we would try, but I think there's plenty of evidence and plenty of data to support that is is not a a natural revenue generator. Yeah. You know, lower hanging fruit, like hangers development, land lease fees, know, through the fence fees, and those type of things that we can start generating money on tomorrow and doesn't really you know, it, that money is people that you that live at the airport, that use the airport that are, you know, spending their money at the airport. And so

You brought up a really good point. Just the potential legal fees in defending imposing them could

Yeah.

Wipe out the revenue from them itself.

But you would agree that it is within the purview of this board development to opine Yes. And defend should we all, as a group, decide to defend it in opposition to that. That's certainly within our purview of the board. Absolutely. Yep.

Right. Kinda obvious where majority of us, but it's not an official vote. That's all I have on the agenda. The question I have for you all is a procedural thing for next week. At a study session, are we allowed to draft yet not vote on a resolution?

I I would run that by I would run that by

Kendra or or yeah. I'd But you could find out for us?

Yeah.

Yeah. And we're supposed to submit all of our inquiries and whatnot through product channels, which would be Stephanie. And

I I think

You will.

From past study sessions, I think you can you can come up with, you know, discuss sort of general directions of things. But, yeah, there there can't be any actual vote or anything like that.

Right. But is is the is the drafting of a resolution in its rough draft form

Yeah.

That's Yeah. Item They or Let me

run that by Kendra. And then

because we can't do it, we won't do it. If we can't do it, we'll spend some time.

I think if you can't do that, you could you could have or you could designate one you could I I think you could probably have discussions on the topic and then have One or two or two people to to Sit down. Offline draft. Yeah. But I'll I'll double check on both those things because I yeah. I don't know.

And so that I am prepared this time since there were so many inquiries for it last time. Are we going to have meeting minutes on this study session?

We're not required. Not required on the study session.

And why didn't they keep that I

I don't think You have to have an agenda. Published agenda in the meeting is public.

Yeah. Anybody can talk. K.

Why? Because the the purpose of minutes really is, like, if there's actual items, like No. There are. Yeah. So there are no action plans. No.

But there is an agenda that Okay.

The agenda is essentially an Online attendance. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I do have to post it.

Okay.

Thanks. I don't have anything else. Anybody's done anything for the good of the order?

Just, FYI. So, at the at the last study session, so we're talking about there's I think I brought this up one time before. So we with the town charter, our elections are in November, of an even numbered year, and the council comes on in January of of the odd numbered years. So this attempt to realign future future boards and everything. So for for this group, like, if you're sorry.

If you're in '20 if your term runs through '26, nothing's gonna change. I mean, there for if any of you were appointed in '24 and went to '28, there is gonna be a change in that your term will end in April '27, and then you can re up, and that is just and then going forward in '26 when we re up, that will run to '29 just so we can get everything in an odd numbered year. April April of an odd numbered year. So you have the new council coming in in January of an odd numbered year and a and new, potential new board appointments coming in in April of an odd number. Right.

Makes sense. More than half of the board more

than yeah.

Will get replaced in any one year. Yeah.

So same overlapping things. Yep. You and I can get together and go through each one of these members Yep. And their dates so then we can let them know exactly what because what you just told me just now. Yep. Okay. Alright. I'll I'll Just like that? Okay. Alright. So But as part of that, we need to figure out, like, when our positions as officers is

off. Yeah. That's that's a good question.

I said a couple times, and I don't think Julian knew. I don't think anybody knew. If we could kinda get a handle on that.

On that part of it. So I

don't want anybody to come sit here because I'm gonna be here forever. It's for it is not the case.

Yep. Yep. I I I will ask that. I believe isn't the process, like is that every year that that's or is it every two years?

Typically, every year But you're told, like, last April when it normally happened that, no, it's not happening until

Maybe the town clerk can send Yeah.

And I don't think last time when I asked Julie, they didn't know. It's like, we're still trying to figure it out. So if they figured it out because if we need to do elections, we'll have elections. Yeah.

Yeah. For officers. I will I will find that out.

Okay. Billy, anybody? K. Meeting's adjourned.