Airport Economic Development Advisory Board - Regular Meeting

To reject.

Okay. Today is Thursday, May 15. Calling to order the monthly meeting of the Erie Airport Economic Development Advisory Board. Roppo. Michael Bowden. Here. Kevin Kane is not gonna make it. No. Damn it. They're dowling. Paul Hefftaley is here. Drew McClain. Lyle Martin. Here. Jennifer Webb. Here. Great. We have a quan. Pledge of allegiance. Everybody?

Pledge allegiance to the Republic

Of The United States Of America and to the republic for which the senate is. One nation under God. And indivisible. We're gonna change this for all.

You're not just

for real. Everybody has a copy of tonight's agenda. There's more here. If you don't join, you don't need one. Nope. Yep.

It's in

my brain, man. K. Still putting on the screen.

Yeah. That's yeah.

Hey. That one's a bargain. Chance to look at it. Uh-huh. Comments, questions, concerns, motion to approve. Motion. Second. I second. Favor? Aye. Closed. Okay. Excellent. Again, we don't have the other previous meetings minutes. We'll pick Correct. Next time,

no problem. We don't have anybody here for public comment. I do have a question about those meeting minutes, though.

Yes,

sir. Because we post the recordings online and the minutes online, is anybody opposed to me using generative AI to create summary for the minutes? I'll have to defer to the powers that be, which is probably Debbie Mhmm. Or Michelle. Correct?

Usually, the only thing that is really required by minutes is any kind of action, vote, direction, stuff that's Results. Yeah. Discussion stuff.

If I give the recording to Generative AI, it'll do a nice summary of everything.

I'll say out of six advisory boards, there's six different types of minutes that are taken.

Is that right?

Some of them, it's detailed almost verbatim. Every discussion point, this person said, this person said, some just said this was discussed.

Okay.

So it's it's up to us.

I'll I'll try it once, and we'll see. I know some other people are using it for their meetings,

so we'll see. I'm sure somebody's got a problem with to let you know. Alright. Mister secretary. Okay.

No public comments. Nobody's here besides us.

Is there a participant?

I think that's us.

Oh, okay.

We don't know how to push buttons up there anyway. And, also, I think we said at the last meeting, but people can only speak public comment if they're here

and If they're here.

No more hybrid. So even if somebody's watching at home, which they can't, we couldn't bring them on anyway.

Oh, gotcha. Officer's report, you have one thing that is, I think, significant, but to give you kind of a backstory. So our friend, Todd, reached out to me probably two months ago, and he had received an email from senator Hickenlooper's regional director up in this part of state. And she reached out to him to, number one, congratulate the town of Erie for the receipt of the grant money that was used ultimately to fix the runway and the tarmac. And she expressed an interest to come and see what was done and talk about the airport.

That meeting happened two weeks ago, but it was at the airport. Brandon Bell was there.

Council member O'Connor? O'Connor. Right. Jason.

Who else?

It was Jason, O'Connor, Sally from Hicker Looper's office, Brandon, and you.

Yeah. It really was a great meeting because she was extremely interested in what's going on at the airport, what the goals in town of Erie are, and we were happy to express both our thanks for the grant money and how really interested we would be in their assistance to achieve additional goals, primarily what we talked about Yeah. Was road. Yes. She was on top of her game, I have to tell you. She was very knowledgeable about

There you

go, Paul. Airports in general. It's on

the record.

Yeah. It was and she came she had some really, really great suggestions how she could help.

Who flew that?

I'd like to help. Park there. Not normal. And I didn't know this. She says, oh, we got a disc discussion about Boulder versus Erie. Again, we have no desire to close the airport. We wanna expand the public use of the airport, give more people access to it. Then she says, well, who flies into here? And as evidenced by the photo Yeah. The tail.

Jason did a great job. He pulled out the brand new Cirrus, parked it on the tarmac, pulled the the Pilatus right there, and we're having this conversation. And she has a question about, you know we were saying, well, Boulder has no IFR approach. What does that mean? So Jason kinda explained it to her. He says, well, we have one. And she says, well, this might be a really good airport to focus for folks who are coming in. And I had no idea, but the Sundance Film Festival is relocated. Yeah. It's moving permanently to Boulder Yes.

In 2027. So she's like, oh, we should have a concerted effort to encourage those, you know, folks who have planes like that to land in Erie, and maybe we could figure out the shuttle, and she was on top of it. So it was a great meeting. She's very interested in trying to help us kinda do some of the projects that we're wanting to do.

That's awesome. Yeah. It was really, really thanks to Todd, kinda facilitated that. Would she be able to connect us with, like, the actual logistics organizations for Sundance? Because we would need to get ahead of some of those things. But if we're, like, on

their radar instead of Broomfield. Sure. Touched on that. And Just feels gonna be on Earth too.

They are. There are a lot of planes that can only go there, and they'll saturate it. So we're the next next step up. She was very like one.

She was very open to coordinating, discussing, and having conversations to that point exactly.

We can have something in the town of Erie associated with the festival and the airport and what have you that Jeff can't.

Exactly. Mhmm. So put your thinking caps on and

what time of the year is that?

January. January. Not this coming one, though. I think it I think it moves in 2027. This could be the

first one to How they pulled that, Ash?

I don't know. But it's Robert Redford.

Yeah. Yeah. There's there's one reason they pulled him off. Right? Yeah.

He does have ties to both?

It was either us staying in Park City or going to Cincinnati. Those are the three finalists somehow. Is that right?

And I don't know how it moved out of Park City.

I mean, that was

And we gave them a lot of money.

That was Thank you.

There's a $34,000,000 tax credit that the state legislature intentionally approved this session just so they could do that.

Oh, is that right? Anyways,

quite a coup. Now we've got doesn't roll. We've got three major festivals in Colorado between Telluride, Boulder, and there's a pretty good size one in Lions for Bluegrass stuff too. Wow.

Like, it is just the Bluegrass. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's run by the same guy that does Bluegrass, the Telluride Festival.

I see.

He he owns that. That's a that's a lot of public entertainment in the town. That guy see our size and everything. That has the rights to Telluride Mhmm.

Festival in the Rocky whatever that one is that's on the the grounds in Lyons.

I see. Yeah. That guy lives there.

I see.

We were in

In the bedrocks.

We were scheduled to have our wedding there Oh, yeah? September 2013. Mhmm.

It's gonna Let's close. Thursday,

the first day before our wedding, which was a Sunday. The water was up to the headers in the pavilion. Wow. Yeah. We got a fun. We ended up moving it to Windsor.

The seventy five year flood.

Anyways, it's a big deal. Yes. She was very, very positive, very supportive about our ideas and what we could use help with. So we're gonna follow-up Absolutely. And have a conversation you know, continuing conversations. Maybe we could

but she was all over it. That's awesome. Cool. Let's love her. Well worth it. Much as we can.

You guys have anything else? Wasn't there something else about that might maybe be able to look for money for road project or

Yeah. So part of it is somebody at the state, I think, via CDOT had reached out to Jason about money that's available specifically for access roads to airports. And he followed up, but he hasn't really gotten an answer. But we're like, hey. We heard from this person. Oh, yeah. I know them. Yeah. So she's gonna help us connect to that. Is that what you're talking about? Mhmm.

Yeah. As far as opening up access and what have you, we currently have a no authorized entry, no trespassing situation, which makes it very hard for the community to be involved with the airport. So solving that problem

And she was all about, well, you know, the safety issue with the fire department that probably could get you some money, and then we probably could help with some additional congressional funding. And my philosophy has always been,

yes. We'll Yeah. Any help you could give us. Yep.

And we would be very appreciative of any ideas and help you could give. Yeah. Okay. Because it's just like her in the shot. I gotta comment. Put her

in the spotlight and make make a big deal about everything she did to help us.

And what

I It doesn't hurt that senator Hook Hickenlooper is up in 2020. Yep. There is that. I have an incentive.

Uh-huh.

That's all I'm gonna say. That's all I have

for me.

It's a big report. Sir, I I don't know.

Got nothing? Came empty handed? Not totally. Oh, okay.

I was in Nepal building houses for Habitat for a month, so I have nothing from the last month. Yeah.

Airport enterprise. We're gonna cross that word enterprise. The airport fund finance report. Mhmm. Can we get them on the calendar for the next

So I talked to finance. Our request to them was providing the written quarterly report and then them attending twice a year. Right. So the next quarter would be today would be for the first quarter. They attended Sarah attended in February, which was the end of year report. So the next next quarter would be three months thereafter, which would this month in May. I talked to them today. They don't have it ready for tonight's meeting, but said they'll have it ready maybe even tomorrow or later, early next week. So as soon as I get it from them, I'll forward it to you guys. We can review it at next month's meeting, but I told them if we're doing it every six months, the next time they would come at ten would probably be August.

Okay. Oh, just Just send it have them yeah. Just send it to us, and we can have a discussion amongst ourselves

at the

next meeting,

and then we'll have to have a chance to look at it.

Yep. And any direct questions or conversation with them, I think they'll be on the hook to come and join the meeting in August.

If somebody had a question before June's meeting

We can do it by email.

Talk, but we could ask them before the meeting, and they could give us answers so we could have

Yep. Yeah. And any information that we need between now and then, I can bring them back to the next meeting too.

Okay.

For those traveling this summer and what have you, I experienced because of the heightened security measures implemented by the IT staff in the town of Erie, you can't get into your email if you're far enough away that your IP address looks like you're coming from a foreign country. Yeah. But, dude, we're in Nepal. Yeah.

Things are finished. For security settings, shut off email access at the border.

Yeah. I think so.

So security setting, all of IT has it. So it doesn't matter whether you're staff, a values board, or council, there's no email access.

So you

can't work from home from Cancun? No.

No. I ain't canceling my trip. So yeah. Okay. Do we need to have discussions on this item regarding your memo with respect to the ordinance?

I don't have additional feedback on that unless you had heard anything from The

guest numbers weren't here at the last meeting. I know we said that's your your liaison. Let's use them as liaison and make sure that they support the next steps. And if they do, we can then have you guys with their support sent to cancel.

K. My thought on that, unless there's any feedback here, which we'd be happy to discuss, would be just to refresh that request with Brandon and Anil. Tell them that in the next meeting, we would like to have, like, a thumbs up, thumbs down on actually submitting that forward to the rest of the council and solicit their feedback on that timing.

K. Really, Anil is out of town.

Brandon has kids graduation email a little bit ago.

I'd like to see them show up at the next one. Maybe we could all schedule one.

Well, I think you guys have the choice at the end of the agenda if you see there's the next meeting falls on Juneteenth and we're shut down, so you guys could figure out for June if it's the week or the week after. Right.

We can talk about that when we get to it, but alright. Having said that, hangar committee.

Yeah.

The only update is the little draft questionnaire I sent around. Intent here is just to capture data points I thought would be relevant, kinda going for a widespread. Like we had discussed before, my intent would be to send it to those that have already filled out the anger interest form, not necessarily going for a broader solicitation than that, just those that have raised their hand at least for a first pass. I am very interested in just, like, from whatever data we get from there, breaking down to see, like, what what variables correlate to tell something useful. Right?

Like, that's people with a plane, like smaller hangers, or everyone on that interest list doesn't actually have a tail number to provide for a you know, like, whatever that may be. Right. But I think that that would inform how we could shape or which type of proposals we would pursue that kinda meet what the community is saying thereafter. And then broader, introduce that to the community, you know, that we have already gotten some degree of feedback that this format, this price point is what people on the interest form are are looking for.

Has everybody looked at it?

Yeah. It's quite extensive. It is.

So we can definitely trim it down. Like, I went for throwing more at it. If there are things we definitely don't think are useful, I'm happy to strike them. I I certainly don't wanna take anyone's time up filling this in.

Well, we can see the behavior of people on the first couple submitted. And if it seems like people are willing to tolerate it, more information is better than having to do more surveys. Anything like that. No. First sentence.

You mean air store your aircraft on airport lanes. Right?

Yeah. Thank you.

I think it's pretty darn pretty darn good Right. In terms of what you're asking and how you're asking it. I know you and I talked about it. I think you provided some personally, I like it. I think I would probably this as far as getting it out and getting some data. So to you, what would be the process and how would we do that?

Soon as this body agrees on the content, we can put it into our form. We through our website, the the form module is called Civic Optimize. We just put it into our form. And as soon as we have the link ready, we can send it out to everybody on the list. We've got a 187 people on the Hangout request form right

now. Yeah.

Looks like every one of them has an email address, so we can take that form and just mass send it to everybody on the list.

We also make it available on the website around there for those that are not on the list yet.

Yeah. You guys.

What do you all think? I mean, you've got feelings about just doing it to the list for now? Or

Personally, I'd rather not throw it on the website just yet, but give a period of time where those that have already, like, indicated interest have a chance to, like, have a a prime voice in this very first thing.

I would've

And that's, like, two weeks.

Yeah. My thing is if you then you have a reasonable way to gauge, okay, of those 180 that have been putting their names on for the last two years Yeah. Company drop off. Otherwise, you'd have to cross check and let it come up.

That's a good idea.

So maybe we do what you're suggesting. I think that's a great idea. How do you all feel about creating a deadline in which to

respond? With an explanation of why we have urgency in the deadline. Sure. I think I

can add, like, a sentence. It's like responses will be reviewed at the next board meeting by blah blah blah. Something simple like that. Just to, like It

can be a little bit more elaborate of of why we need this information. The the gravity of the decisions we're trying to to make that are based on this information.

Yeah. That's true. I just think to your point, like, at some point, this does become publicly hosted. We allow more people to fill this in. Like, there's no deadline that I wanna ignore incoming data.

Mhmm.

But for people to know, like, why they should respond soon, that's Yeah. Because we want to create a sense of urgency and, like, do something about this.

Yep.

I just don't wanna create the false sense of people thinking we're gonna break ground on hangers or something next six months because that is not what's gonna happen.

Yeah. I think that's not

That might subdue the responses if we say that. As much

as I would love that to happen myself,

I don't see it happening.

Yeah. So maybe we do, like, two weeks from the date that we submit them. We'd send them out, blast it.

Babe, respond by such and such date, and then it's not like a hard deadline. You're just trying to get

Yeah. Financial. And you got 200 interested parties already. Maybe some of them are in the construction industry.

Yeah. I mean, I because some of them were fairly old. When did do we know when we started doing it, Julian? Yeah. To new

It was 2022. Yeah. Looks like December 22.

So I would expect that some of those will come back and say not interest or they're just not gonna respond because,

Yeah. They already found something else.

Yeah. But

if you get a 100 responses, that's still a lot of damage.

Oh, yeah. Honestly, it's a little bit overwhelming. But yeah. It's just figuring out, like, what things correlate in responses to allow us to, like, establish a meaningful narrative for what we should pursue. Right. Yep.

There's one comment I'd have as I was reading through it, and I I didn't study it in-depth. But what would you be willing to pay for a hanger in the first one that was less than 145 a month? And I'm like, where would you find a hanger for 145

a month? No.

No. Port Of I don't think

not anywhere. Well, that's the we end

up because we're gonna get to the point where I'm gonna say, okay. Yay or nay for what we have. So that's a very valid point. Do we wanna tweak it?

We absolutely can tweak everything. Yeah. Think the ones number should be It's probably unreal. Bullishly low to, like, self eliminate people that aren't serious as far as where the process would eventually Speaking

speaking, I'm speaking, and 45. We're looking for a a down. The tie down with the Shouldn't Yeah.

Yeah. We can send them a link to Jason's, yeah, $10 a day.

I think the bottom is the $1.50 to $2.50 because you can't even find that.

Yeah. Even the little temporary hangers are $2.50 on them.

Yeah. Are they on the porta ports?

I met someone just the other day that just put a airplane in one of those. He that airplane just bought. So it's able to The sit

down for you?

Yeah.

Get very lucky to

That's my

you somebody. That's my neighbor's hanger. Oh, your neighbor owns He has four. Four. Okay. And that's part of one the things I was thinking about is if eventually we do get to the point where hangers are built, it's gonna be where those where the hangers are. Right?

We don't Eventually, in a perfect world

the new road is not

In a perfect world, you build something new somewhere else. Offer it to all of them. And then once that was done and all that space had been used, then the next portion would be would likely be something like that.

Yeah. And Jason wants to move the taxiway through there.

The FAA wants to pull the taxiway. And that would solve our problem of walking across inactive. It's kinda like one begets the other

begets Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of a domino effect.

Yep.

Kinda interrelated the road, a new FBO Mhmm. In a new terminal building. Yep. Hangers, box hangers versus tee hangers. Honestly, like I've always said, the road comes in from the north, parking is there. That dirt lot goes away. Now you have land that could be developed for other projects, but one has to happen before the next. As far where they'd be, we have no idea.

If they were where the port hangers are, it's like, we don't need a 187. We need a 187 plus 25 because we're in displaced 25 people in hangers right now.

Right. Well and and, you know, you bring up a good point too that I had really thought, you know, back where I grew up, they they had T shape. Well, they might have them at centennial too. You know? Dude, you could convert some of the existing tie downs to T shades and potentially, you know, charge more for

them. Yeah. Right.

You have to, you know, get your investment back. But in a place like this, when you have days like yesterday

Yeah. And

who knows? You know, maybe you put you could put silver on that if if that doesn't create a a glare problem. Right?

Yeah. They're pretty popular down in the Phoenix area. A lot of shade in this one.

I bet. Right. Green lease, Kevin? We get we the airport fund gets ground lease money for those porta ports. So to displace them prematurely would not be a smart idea. So it's like, get some over here so that when you decide that you're ready to go where the port ports are, and then give them sort of first right of refusal to relocate.

Yeah. Each one of those ported ports are they're paying them through the fence $600 a year for each one.

They're paying are they? They're paying Are they paying the ground lease? They're paying ground lease.

According to my neighbor, I think he pays the $600 through the fence for each of them. Alright. Each one's. Mhmm. But the

bottom all bottom line is you don't wanna Yes. It's a social. Right. It's a little amount that it is cut off your nose to spite your face. No. Any other points on that particular Alright. Question?

Like, if we're getting everyone spun up, getting excited about this, can we offer them, like, a time frame, like, maybe, or how long they're willing to wait?

Well, that is part of the questions at the very end is what what kind of time frame are you looking at? Help me out here, Drew, because I'm not so much

It's true, but that's more to benefit, like, our understanding of their readiness, in my opinion. It's such a process. I think we could articulate the complexity of the process. I think it's important that we say, like, there will be a lot of time for public feedback in the process. I I I would be really hesitant to dangle, like, you know, hopefully, in twelve months, it's there or whatever. It's like, that's where I'm like

That's what I'm trying to avoid because then it's gonna blow up. You're gonna have all kinds of people calling him Mhmm. Yeah. Emailing us, calling Jason. But for the public record, everybody, we're not ready to break ground. We're getting gathering information to determine, to your point, what would be the appropriate type of hangars to build first? Best to proceed with the the master plan. Exactly.

So I have a question with the process once we get this information back, you know, assimilate it. What what what what do you see as next steps? What what is the process to the point where maybe hangers Yeah. I think time exists.

So we had the study session in which we, like, looked at our proposal for a very simple hanger and, like, the cost associated with that. I see this information as helping us tune, like, maybe getting a different and and better, like, tailored proposal or probably two to three proposals that match, like, what the data says. People are interested in buying in the short term, that have an aircraft, that meet, like, the criteria that we collectively discuss and think, like, brings value to the airport in the short term. With those proposals, then I think the remainder of the process is we figure out, like, of the three which are the best, which might be willing to, like, do a deal in the short term or be the best with long term later options. Like, we assess three potential companies and proposals for that.

And then we take that information and the information in here about some of the finances and willing to do down payment. Think we take that and put together a project plan that says we can we, as the airport board, could initiate a process by which people would put money in in advance. We would be requesting the town to support the remainder of the capital for development that they would recoup on sale. And we just put the proposal together with what the business flows look like when revenue is, like, received, when capital is, like, you know, overall met, whether through rental or or sales.

And this is gonna be a phased approach. We're not doing I think

we're only even talking about phase one with any of this, though. But, yes, that is true.

So does that ultimately lead to a an RFP out to developers? Or

I think not even ultimately. I think the RFP is, like, at least for a ROM sized quote and and soon based on what we think this information says people are wanna buy in the, you know, probably 20 to 40 units max sort of range. We figure out what the right size looks like for that phase one, and we propose the idea of this, like, combination of money down, little bit of airport fund, and town fund being able to move that process along that, otherwise, like, we haven't seen happen just through, like,

a commercial vendor. And maybe if we're going to sell hangers for the first bunch, maybe the premium, we tack on something that helps fund the port to port transitions.

I don't know if that helps Yeah. Port to port transitions. I mean, the port to

port.

Because that's part of the master plan. We need to do that, and we we need ways to fund it. And if we're giving them the first right to move into the new hangars, you can pay something for that.

I I would I would suggest that more in line with building in some money that would go into the airport fund to help fund the next step, whatever that next step is. Yeah. I don't think initially I've always thought that the the initial hangers that get built, whatever they are, I don't think you'll have any shortage of people who are willing to step in Mhmm. And commit to whatever it is that you're going to build. I truly believe that that won't be a problem probably for the first

10 gonna be focused on what they get out of their purchase or have you. It it's a special time to get the first ones or have you. We should take advantage of the fact that those type of people most likely have the ability to also help fund a little bit of the rest of the project.

I I think we'll all flush that out as a result of the respondents and what they say and how we Yeah. Crunch the data. But I would

It's kinda like a a a view premium on a lot. You know? The people who want the premium place are going to pay a lot premium for that view or or whatever.

I think we'll know more on, like, how to qualify, like, what what these people are interested in buying. I I also, like, very much don't wanna take it for granted that this even moves forward, let alone that there are additional phases beyond this that would displace, like, the porta hangers. Like, this this may die. Like, this may not actually have the legs to go end to end, or we may, like, do this one phase and realize it's it's not achievable to continue to expand this. Like, I don't wanna assume that at this point.

Know what we don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I think it in the next couple of our meetings, we would take some of that data, maybe have another study session where we can discuss what we've gotten out of this kind of I think when we had our last study session at my office, That was kinda what we had figured was to have this study session, which we did come to the conclusion. We'd like to do this survey. We do the survey. We get crunch the numbers, and then the airport will have another study session where we can focus.

But it is absolutely our job to put a long term plan that that That is good. Optimistic together and present it to

Yeah.

Town and say, you know, we can do this or we can do this or we can do this, but we've planned out all the things we can and think we should do and what would be great for the town.

And the town ultimately decides, yep, we like this idea or we don't like this idea.

Yep.

Because we're not I mean, we're not gonna be project managers for this No. Or advisory board advising, you know, council. Right.

We need to advise them on their options. Correct.

We, as a board, have a lot of discussions and analysis to do Mhmm. To that point. Yep. And then we get to that point.

So how does the airport manager fit into all this?

He runs the airport. Good question. So Well

the same information that we've come up with, does that go to Jason, and then Jason goes to the town? And who's decision?

I think part of our recommendation to the town, and and I would a step further, is, like, here are the options. I think our it does say, we believe you should do this. Yeah. But some of this is, okay, Jason. If we determine that we the data reflects that this is the primary project that we would start with as airport manager, we need input from you as to, okay, what's the location? But I I it is my opinion.

To your point, you know, Vector has managed to build, you know, the storage building out there. And that, as Jason has described, that was a process of, you know, working with the town to plan that, what it's gonna look like, where it goes, all that kind of stuff. So he ultimately managed the building of that project. Is that correct?

I think the town staff had a huge amount to do with where it was gonna placed, what it was gonna be.

And Any facilities that are owned by the town are ultimately managed by the towns. Planning, zoning, building. Yeah. I mean, obviously, it went through all those steps, but the facilities team manages all the town's buildings. So I'm sure facilities oversaw construction. Right. Jason might have been in some local boots on the ground, but, I'm sure it was our team that led it.

I think Jason's Jason's point

of view is as he's told me more than once, the FAA is gonna say have some input as to where a building, any type of building, its height, whatever is gonna depend, where it can be in proximity to the runway, the taxiways, and whatnot. So, again, to my point, it's going to take a fair amount of input for what number of entities. But my philosophy is don't give the the trust of the council a lot of choices. Like, we've done our work. We know what really should be done.

We've done the analysis. We've gotten the data. We've talked to the town staff. We've talked to Jason. It's like, here's what we wanna build. Here's how we've we're gonna fund it. Here's all you guys need to do is say

Yeah.

Yes. Formed this board specifically so that you simply have to make a decision.

Opinion. Yeah. There's a reason why they only give you a couple of color choices on new vehicles. Because if you have too many choices, you won't make a choice. Yep. But I think it's within our purview to do all of the work and get a project to recommend to them and say, this is what we believe. We've done all our hard work. Should be done first.

And if they have additional input, we have q and a.

To your point earlier is is there's the town builds it, and you do a proposal that way. And the other way is you come in with a developer who gives you a a a proposal on how they're gonna do it and sell it. So, ideally, you know, it to go that direction would be ideal, but it could also go to the point where, you know, NASA development goes in and builds bunch of hangars. But it would remain on airport property, so there would still ultimately be ground leases for all those hangars. And then back to what you were working on with the the the change of the ordinance says increasing those fees for laces.

Ground leases and everything that goes with the airport because showing that we have a plan to move forward to not only expand but increase the revenue to try and get this airport to a point where it's, you know, more cost neutral but providing, you know, opportunities to have more economic benefit to the town. Yep. Correct.

But we'll know more as we get further along on this particular project. So at this point, I don't even think we know what all the questions are, much less all the answers. And it will take some time for us to flush this out. Juliet,

who who in that town staff would or what department would handle building a new town owned structure.

What what type of town owned structure? Like hangers?

Hangers. So

I

I'm curious to see what the outcome is of the questionnaire because that'll dictate the size and scale.

To see the necessary.

Yeah. I think based off the work we've already done in this in this group in the last couple of years, the hangar market study phase one, phase two, the updated economic development strategy document done last year, the crosswind runway evaluation done last year. I think we have a pretty good grip on hangar options and even ballpark hangar costs. And the what I'm thinking, what's kinda hit home for me the last year is looking at what is the best financial decision for the town on considering hangars and the the risk reward of the amount that has to be invested as the town to financially build, own, and manage our own hangars and the cost that is required to build that kind of a facility and how long it would take to recoup that investment over a longer period of time and what that real rate of return for investment is versus what I think is the preferred alternative is I mean, what you were saying is ground lease option. Identify the space, identify the size, identify the target number of hangers and size based off the input from the questionnaire, put together a competitive RFP, RFQ, and seek a third party developer partner.

And that is an it's way less risk. It does not cost us anything. Right. We're receiving a ground lease that is a substantial, reliable source of income, and the developer's taken on all the risk, and they have to finance it, pay for it. They get their own rental sale rates, whatever they choose to do. We just get a nice steady income, and we support another, whatever, 50 to a 100 points. That is from sitting in this chair for the last three and a half years that I'm predicting that's the outcome.

Yeah. Well and then we were talking about this before out in the spaceport. The newer some of the hangers out there, they're paying taxes in addition to

ground leases, or is it one is it one or the other? No. I mean, that what I've discovered with a lot of these airports where they have a scenario where it is a ground lease, you own the the structure above ground, you're still gonna pay property taxes on that structure. However, it's considerably less. For instance, the 50 by 50 box hangers that are owned at Erie Airport and you own the ground, essentially, they're condominiumized.

Those 50 by 50 box hangers, their taxes this at this time run about $1,000 a month for a 50 by 50 boxing. Similar hangers in Longmont, which is obviously Boulder County, they get an exemption or a reduction from the town from the county because they don't own the ground. So the appraised value is considerably less. You're only paying the taxes on the structure above ground because if the wind comes and blows the thing away, you got nothing, but the town still has the infrastructure, the pad, everything that's still there. The town owns it.

So they've been able to turn a 10,000 to $12,000 annual tax liability to about $1,200 a year. Yeah.

The land is still tax exempt. But when there's property that's owned by municipality and there's private interest operating on that property for profit, I think the term they call is like possessory interest, and that allows you, the county, to impose tax on that private entity but still not tax the land. Correct. And that's why when we did the whole economic impact study last year of the airport, the airport itself generates, like, $6 a year in property tax because it's that small amount. But

that would fundamentally change. Mhmm.

Yeah. More hangars, more private profit, more taxes paid on vertical improvements.

So the tax liability is the individual owner Mhmm. For that structure, but the airport fund receives the ongoing ground lease for and as Jason puts it, if you have a 50 by 50 box hanger, it's not 50 by 50 ground lease. It's, like, 15 feet beyond the footprint of the building to how the ground waste is calculated because you occupy not only the building, but the space around it is tied up. So it's beyond the footprint of the building, Courtney, Jason, to set. But you're you're also correct.

The the the the ordinance establishing the ground lease is all tied into the through the fence fees and everything else. Everybody that's ever opined based on what we've paid them to opine on has said the same thing, that the 25¢ rate that exists now, I think it's been, like, twenty years that the ground lease has been at that. It needs to be adjusted for inflation. It can't be it needs to be raised, number one. But if it's significantly low, it's way too low, and it needs to be changed. But it's that should have an escalation.

Of course. Was there a suggestion in one of those report earlier reports? Mhmm. Yeah. They're all okay.

Yeah. That 300 page document from ABS that recommended all the separation of airport manager and FBO agreements, and that stuff also did analysis of the fee schedule. Okay.

Yeah. So a 50 by 50 box hanger, 25¢ a square foot. If you don't count the apron, it's $625 a year. It's peanuts. You know, way too low. But that number sound familiar? Mhmm. It all dictates through the fence fees, and then Jason says it also translates into tie down fees. It's all based on that initial calculation of a 50 by $50. And stuff through the fence fees for the airport residents.

Is it $6.25 or $6.50, something like that?

600 a year.

Per year. Yeah. They're all kinda tiny.

Does it matter how big your hair is?

Yeah. It just makes sense. One airplane per hair, which, you know, we've had discussions about, well, you know, neighbor has four airplanes, so she paid four times 600 or or not. And then rental dues, You pay 600. Right. You know, a lot of I I hate to use the word inequity, but there's 55 houses that have access to the airport. 30 one was actually paid through the fence. Some some of us have one airplane per hangar. Some of us have more than one airplane per hangar. So, you know, it gets complicated fast.

Sure. I have a question on some of the studies that have been done and haven't I don't know the history that you guys do. If we get to the point where we're talking about developers coming in and building private hangars on public land, have you thought about what the long term lease agreement would be? How many years? And I bring that question up because when I lived in Washington, I went to.

And we were about twenty years into a thirty year ground lease. There is no guarantee at the end of thirty years that that lease would be renewed. So in essence, my hangar that I owned in ten years, potentially, if the airport didn't extend the lease, would turn into public property.

Interesting.

What that did to me as an owner is I instead of having an asset that was increasing in value, basically had an asset that was decreasing in value because the one we wouldn't have leased, you know, whoever bought the hangar said, we got ten years left before. Who knows what happens? Well,

you know, they're going to want to renew the lease at a higher price.

Yeah. I mean,

the general thought was, well, you know, the the city will probably renew the lease, but they didn't have to. Mhmm. And that's a big uncertainty when you come to, you know, how you develop this. What kind of lease is the city looking for? Are they looking for thirty, forty, fifty years in New Hunt? So Yeah. We have no

idea at this point. We've had a couple third party developers who have experience in Jeffco and Satania that have come to us directly and said, hey. We wanna be your development partner in Bill Eggers. That's where it stopped. We haven't talked about length of leases or type of leases. We've been consulted with our airport attorneys on what traditional leases look like. You know, we we rely on the experts in that. We are not.

I know Jeff Cole Mhmm. Rocky Mountain. I had a contract to buy a hangar there that had a lease. I wanna say at that point, there was, like, five years left on the lease. But the airport authority was fully prepared to execute a new lease. Obviously, it was at a higher rate than what their current owner was paying once it ran out, but they were more than willing to execute a brand new lease. And I wanna say it was a twenty year with an automatic five year extension if you wanted to do that.

And the town could tie the increase to some other economic indicator, like inflation or or whatever that gave the person who was looking at buying something that was going to expire an idea how much Yeah. It's gonna cost.

Bottom line is Rocky Mountain Metropolitan Airport has no interest in getting further deep in the weeds with owning, repairing, maintaining hangers, and they do not want it didn't want it that time. They did no interest in becoming hanger managers.

Yeah.

They just didn't want to do it.

They have some in the cap, but the county owns those at Jeffco. Right?

I'm an accounting figure, and it's a month to month lease. They could they could terminate the lease tomorrow and tear it all down and put up, you know Right. More of the really big stuff that they've done over at my shelter. But that's for the county owned hangars.

That's for the county owned hangars, but there's but the other buildings, the ones too, mean, that built built the hangars with ground leases, they were fully prepared to execute new leases. But it's they escalated Mhmm. Certain rate.

And what

The county had that down writing that they would commit to not because that was the problem we had.

I had a lease ready to execute, but I didn't close on the building. That's what happened. But I had a document prepared that they were willing to execute with me at closing should I had I closed on the building. I wish I had, but the owner

was

a little

If I wish I Yeah.

Up in in the Washington situation, we we couldn't get a commitment on the city that they would re release it at the end of five years. It's timely. They're staying silent.

But isn't that something that kinda would be within our purview to make recommendations to the town in terms of what kind of structure it would have would have? And, again, I would see that as an ancillary or secondary, part of what it is that we're just now getting started to do.

Is that one more question on the questionnaire?

No. I don't think so. I don't think so, but I think it's to your point I mean, what what to the council length of it and give them a recommendation. It should include the recommendation that we believe that you there should be twenty year ground leases with the right to extend for another ten.

Yeah.

Bottom line is

I'm asking thirty years, we're all dead. Yeah.

I'm asking the experts, which in this case is ChatGPT, and it's gonna be some pretty good stuff.

Oh, excellent. It already has them, and it's been a meeting, but yeah. So my recommendation at this point, unless there's other additional suggestions in terms of the questionnaires, I would suggest a vote by this group as to proceeding with the questionnaire as it exists in that hall and Julian's assistance, get this published and start getting some data as soon as possible.

I move to approve that

plan. Second. Thanks. I'm second. In favor? Aye.

Oh, we've identified a couple, like, things to adjust in terms of you didn't like one fifty at the low end. I've got a typer on hanger grounds. Like, I I take the I am in favor and take with the boards in favor of proceeding.

Let

me, yeah, let me circulate, like, a final copy and then allow a chance for just feedback by email before providing it to the town.

Okay. I'm all good with that, but how many times have I sat here and asked people to give this guy some input if he didn't get any? So I really, really want to move this forward. I don't wanna be having this discussion. Yeah. So appreciate what you're telling.

I'll just send an update around and say that I will send forward to the town whatever days, you know, pending any feedback.

And put an expiration on feedback if you don't get it. That's an implied consent.

Are we good with that, or do we really can we really just have a vote pass it now to move forward according to what you're saying? Because I don't wanna have another vote.

No. No. Sorry. I I take the vote as, like, we are good as a board moving forward.

Okay.

I will circulate a final copy to this board before officially sending it to town. That's all I'm saying.

If you don't get a response from somebody, they didn't have any useful feedback. Fine with that.

Okay. So that vote we just had stands, and your vote also is in favor?

It is in favor of that. Yes.

Yep. So you'll record that in time. Excellent. Perfect. Job well done. Thank you very much for doing that. Yeah.

No problem.

Okay.

Airfare.

We have one? Oh, yeah.

If I can remember the correct date. September 7. September 7. September 7. Yeah. Sunday. Ten to two. Can we go an hour earlier than before? Having a meeting tomorrow at the airport with Janowicke and Angela and Hector to talk about moving forward. So we got about four months to go.

Let's see here. Talked to the guys about the park. I I called and left him a message from the land adviser for parking. The the the parcel that we used last time off the county line will probably be the parcel we use for everybody because of all the uncertainties regarding Airport Road off of Highway 7. Right. The signs say through October. And who knows what that'll look like in September? I looked for some stuff online. I couldn't really find much. No.

No. I mean, there's a CDOT's doing a whole you know, from Highway 85 all the way into Boulder. So there's a lot going on there. Let's see here. Jennifer, I sent you that. Is there a way of getting that out to all the residents in the airpark as far as here's what's going on? One of the biggest ones might be one of your neighbor, Ron, making sure

here's a backstory there. I talked to him recently.

Yeah. So, anyway No. He hasn't. Volunteered to release the area. Okay. Yeah. So we have conditional approval. There's a whole I I try I I reached out to Brandon about the permit Mhmm. Thing that's, like, 15 sections, but I can't find, like, a button that says save your save your progress on there.

Okay.

So, like, you exit, and then it says you're losing all your work.

That's weird.

So it's like you have to have everything done and then put it in there. Anyway Have you gotten

an answer back?

I have not.

Okay. I'll ask too.

So, yeah, we're we have a band, a stage. I haven't gotten pricing yet on the event management. That'll be a big part of it. Looking for volunteers, of course. But Angela's participating too. We're trying to spread things out a bit. Big one's gonna be volunteer coordination, vendor coordination,

and then

aircraft parking. Those are gonna be kind of the three big ones that we're gonna need help with. That's about it for right now. Got more tomorrow. Interested in any kind

of drone show from the high school or the innovation center? Something.

Jennifer, did you say that Ames had a drone thing? Were we having to talk about that?

Yeah. I think that they're more interested in bringing the the simulators. Okay. They have a trailer with simulators in it that I know a lot of the public would be interested in.

That's awesome.

If you want the drones, I can ask for that too. Or I I'm not sure how much space I can have.

Let's let the the Towne Berry students have a chance to put on a show. If if we want a drone show and they're interested, that's

they're very local. So wait. Who are we talking about then?

The Saint Brains School District with their drone team. Oh, sure.

The last time we also had Erie Police had their drone. Mhmm. So they flew flew it out there as well. So yeah. K. That would be a good good way of engaging the community. Yep.

Didn't know they have one.

They have a award winning drone team. Is that right? Yes. I've heard of drone soccer, but I haven't heard of that.

They put on they put on oh, they they put on

the fourth of July drone show. For who? That was here. Oh, there was oh, Canada.

So it sounds

great when it's dark and they can do something with lights, but I do believe that they can probably do something interesting during the day.

You have you have Contacts up there. Yep. You have connection to those? Mhmm. Yeah. Will you take care of that?

Yep. Awesome.

We can add that to your Mhmm. Community engagement. Exactly.

Yeah. We're taking, like, more of a engage in the community tact and and less volume of, you know, static display airplanes. Uh-huh. But, like, the space in front of the terminal last year, we had three airplanes there. One of them is gone, but the Super Chipmunk Actually, I think the turbine beaver lives somewhere else too, but we could put more right there in front as well to have that space. And then the helicopter, maybe maybe not. We did okay last time without it.

Yeah. It was

a cool thing when it was there in the past. People like that. Right.

And I will see if I can get anybody interested in bringing a flying car for static display.

The oh, like, one of the

There there's a bunch of different kinds nowadays, so I'll see what I can get.

Not not the one up at Longmont. That's

They had one for their show last year. I don't know who that was.

I saw that. That was I don't know if that would be in Florence.

But they have certified if you are ready. And I know someone who works for a company developing them. Braun knows somebody. We'll see.

So the meeting at Becker tomorrow, do you need any assistance? Or

Yeah. Anybody that wants to come is welcome to come.

When when is it?

That's at 10:00 at Vector. Don't have more than two of you. Yeah. I was just Oh, wait. Oh, that's right.

Yeah. When

you said anyone Was that? Okay.

Yeah. I will tell you right now.

Okay. That's fine. It's I mean, we're four months out, so it's kinda a little bit preliminary at this point. The big thing was meeting with the event management company who has done every single one of these And then and talking to Vector and kinda working through the logistics of of, you know, what happened last time, what could be done better this time. So, yeah, that's that's about what it's gonna be.

Think you mentioned this. Did we mention the airfare to senator Hickenlooper's person from that office.

We do not.

Don't It'd an interesting invitation just to demonstrate. Like, here's a saturation event at the airport and, like, potentially, it also, like, they would point us at some resources that might wanna participate. It's a good idea.

There are people who might wanna be seen at an event like that.

Yeah. One's one's running for reelection, and one's running for governor. Yep. In '26. Yeah. It's a good idea. I just talked to Todd about it today. He would have sent me an email how he wants some spawn out and something like that into

Yeah. And the Goose likes to show up to these things all the time too. He was just at Arbor Day

or day last couple of weeks.

I think it would be very important for us to have a pop up tent with some posters and what have you explaining some of our potential plans for the airport.

You guys had a booth last time?

Yeah. We did. Yeah. The board should have one. Yeah.

Yeah. Absolutely. We had a booth, and then

I think all the other boards weren't allowed booths if they wanted. And one thing that Boulder did is they had a bunch of sticky notes, what have you, and they let people specifically comment on certain things, and they collected the feedback that way as opposed to, here, can you fill out this form or something? They just gave them sticky notes and

I don't wanna say we all took turns doing an hour at

the booth for the board. Sure.

But the community needs to know. We are thinking about things. These are the things we're thinking about trying to get some type of Sitting on our

hands. Yes. We're talking about

Yep.

You can make boards. One thing we did for the town is we made these huge ground maps, and it's like a rollout map the size of this room for the entire town. And same thing, like, kinda sticky notes. Hey. We want more art here, more playgrounds here, more parks here, whatever. You could do one of those for the airport and just have it, like, be the size of the booth from the ground. You can literally walk over it and look at all the things and drop little pins on it. You'll take care of that.

Yeah. Sure. Not? Appreciate the volunteering.

That's the QML show.

That's a great idea. Yeah.

We offer it. I mean, planning did it. Parks has done it. You guys might as well do it too.

Sure. Why not?

Yeah. Right. Yep.

And, mate, can I distribute that, doctor?

Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. Please. Yeah. If you wanna kind of be a little bit of a liaison Yeah. You know, with the airport, both of you guys.

We have a logo. The logo? Yeah. For the airfare?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. The red air. I did not fit that on there. But I do yeah.

Let me I I'll send

you another one with the logo on it. But yeah. That's right. We have a bunch of signed dinners. Right? The logo's on there? Yeah. We had well, we put out Mhmm. Yep.

Cool. Yeah. We have we have the social media part, Facebook. You know, we had to create a new site because trying to find the old people from the old one Mhmm. Just became too problematic. So but the new site had was 2023 Erie airfare. And Angela is trying to redeem that now to the Erie airfare. Mhmm. But it's it's easy. Oh, no.

But, yeah, ultimately, we'll have the yard signs out probably two week ten days, two weeks before. We didn't really have to do a whole lot of advertising because we're not go we're not trying to have 20,000 people here. We are expecting three last time, and we got five. Yeah. So, you know, we put out a 100 yard signs, I think. And we did. Social calendar.

What's that? Calendar and everything was Did it get on the calendar? Think it did eventually.

As soon as it's finally permitted, it goes on the calendar. Okay.

But but that won't be until

Closer to

thirty days ish. Is there an agreement with the e EDC in the town? Do you know?

There should be. If there's not, I'll check on

it. Okay.

Yeah. The money's there. It's just who has it.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And I told you, they said they're they're good to go. I think it's just as soon as they have the money, you

guys talk to them. Okay. Cool. Cool. Community engagement.

So like I said, the what we just talked about. Inability for anybody in the community to access the airport is not a aircraft owner and things has put a little kibbutz on trying to improve that. So I will focus on the air show for the next few months and just visibility of what's going on at the airport.

And you'll open up that conversation with the drone.

Yes. Mhmm.

K. Jason? Oh, he's not here. He's never here just

for

the public record. Actually, I I'm gonna recommend to Jason because he's a really busy dude. And as many times as I hear that he's coming, he says he's coming, something comes up. I'm gonna suggest to Jason that if he can't make it, he have someone else from airport management to come and at least attend the meeting because I think it's important for us to get some input from It's a great idea. Airport manager. If you guys are cool with I'll reach out to him and ask him. Does he have someone else that he'd feel confident in? I think he does. Okay.

That dilemma alone would get hit.

But I'm not trying to not trying to squeeze in the middle either. Like, that's that's why I asked you.

I'll squeeze a seat. Saw you. Well, I think it would be helpful because he could certainly brief this person. Hey. You got the meeting. You need to talk about this, this, and this. I know he's got some people there that could probably

He's an important part of the He is.

He he just as much as he says, you know, I'll I'll be there. Next thing you know, he's got a flight to last minute and scheduled him to be in Montana. I'll ask him and see if we can get something if it's not him. So airport manager's report, we don't have one. D, we kinda already discussed the ordinance because we need to have council members here.

Yep.

So maybe, again, I'll reach out to them, and and I gotta be here at the next meeting because we're kinda waiting.

Yeah. And I think I I said I would take the action to just follow-up because I had emailed them the note and just say that we're looking to, like, actually pass a motion on it in the next meeting and, you know, please send any response beforehand.

On that point, the next meeting, like Julian said, Juneteenth can't happen. Our next meeting, regularly scheduled meeting. So Michelle had reached out to me and said we can do

is that four Thursday after? What's that? The twelfth or twenty sixth.

I believe that's what she said.

What she said. Those two Thursdays are open. Mhmm. Would be the third so it would be the June or the June. I will tell you right now, the June, I can't make it. I'm not here. I mean so my vote would be

Does it have to be Thursday, or is it just as convenient for somebody?

Think she's she threw out those days because she already knew that the room was there.

And there's other advisory boards, plan commission, councils. Yeah. Other week. Yeah.

I also can't do the twenty sixth but could do the twelfth.

Everybody else do it. So rough it is. The twelfth. Yeah. Was your flying schedule you don't know yet? Or

No. I I have it. No. I'm going to a Rockies game then after. I'll be

there too. Yeah. Should be fun. What

time is the game?

01:00.

Yeah. Oh, so you possibly could be done in time.

I might won't have any beers before the meeting.

Are you driving? You guys going together? Because if you were, I'd be very concerned.

Somebody's gonna have to drive both of us.

There's no prerequisite to provide you from having beer before you attend the meeting. You wanna come with the meeting. That way, you know, accept that as long as you bring one for me. Alright. Any other items people need general conversations, discussions beyond what we already covered?

I'd like to talk something to see if it's something we should be worried about or waiting on.

You have the floor.

Why? Thank you. I I just have seen and been told there was a lot of Howard Airports. Like, I know NOCO is limiting aircraft. They allow you a pattern, how many aircraft they have in this pattern. And so a lot of the schools are, like, coming to Longmont, Erie, and Greeley. And I was just wondering if you think this board needs to do anything about

it Right.

To increase traffic.

I think the trend is technology and what have you. If there is ever air traffic control here, it would be done through a virtual tower.

That seems to be getting a lot of traction because it's so cost effective. Can you clarify your statement? Are you saying is there anything we can do about the greater influx of traffic coming into Erie because of the limitations being put on those aircraft by the towered airports?

Uh-huh. Yeah.

That's Okay.

That's more what I'm asking. Like, do we need to do anything proactive, like, contacting some, like, schools, tell them how we'd like?

I think Jason has already done that, particularly with McAir and the other school. I'm not sure if there is anything we can do other than having those conversations short of getting out and start shooting at the airline. It happened in Longmont last weekend. Yeah. So know them on it too.

I got Wow. So

flew over Longmont right around the time into Was that

somebody aggravated by Yes. Airport noise?

Yeah. The the kicker the kicker, which is baffles me, she self reported.

Told somebody.

I'm shooting at these airplanes, and I'm gonna continue shooting at Really? Oh.

House is stupid. Anyways,

I think,

you know, if Jason was here or a representative of the airport management was here, they could probably fill us in. But it's my understanding that Jason has reached out. I wanna say it came up in our meeting with the Hickamooper's representative. The increased traffic, what we can and cannot do. Right. I mean, the only thing he could do, I think, at this point is deterrence in the form of, like, laning fees and whatnot, but I don't think any of us wanna go there. It's a good question to present to Jason because he's very knowledgeable.

Is it because these students don't want to learn how to talk to a tower?

No. Tower is limited.

Oh. Yeah. I see.

Well, there's there's always so much capacity in Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the amount of flight school traffic has grown significantly in this area in the last four years in, you know, in a direct response to the massive amount of hiring that happens at the top airlines. That trickles down Okay. All the way down to CFIs

Got it.

And people starting up. And so, yeah, there's been a huge increase. And then, they're having, like, some other places, controller shortages and issues with that. And then, you know, there was a lawsuit that was just dismissed against the airport from Boulder County and Superior and such. But, yeah, I you know, I think Jason's probably doing what he can to try and interact with other flight schools and say Yeah.

You know? But the I mean, there's only even it in a perfect world, there's only so much traffic they can support on the South Runway at Jeffco, And so all of that has to go somewhere else. And so it all you know, the CDOT study that came out, you know, was from 2023, which showed airport operations estimated at 45,000 per Erie, which is a pretty good increase from where it was previously, which I think it was closer to 30. But, yeah, all that gets distributed out, and it's it's all a big cycle. You know?

That as hiring goes up, everything goes up. Then when it goes down, it all slows down again. Whether that will have an impact here. You know?

I'm curious, Jennifer. Have you personally had an impact or seen an impact?

Oh, no. I just received an email from NoCo saying they're gonna limit how many aircraft they allow in pattern. And, therefore, these other airports are are having to absorb it.

Yes, sir.

And I know Flight instructors will stay away and take them somewhere else.

Yeah. They have to because they have to get their training in. And so the ones that are being affected are Greeley and Longmont and Erie. So I just thought, well So then that's the front range. Yeah. Or is there something we could do to help our airport and educate more on an education standpoint? You know?

Right.

Just, you know, what how our runways you know, I know Jason says, we wanna limit some, you know, use of one six during the summer because of rising train, just education, and and how close we are to Metro's airspace so we don't have any Yep. Violations. I was just more not in the landing fee because I don't like landing fees. No. I'm more just in the education since we are gonna have more people.

So what specific message would we have in educational materials?

Well, like like I know you said, Jason does have a lot of that.

With Jason because I'm really don't.

And I've had some discussion with Jason, and he has reached out

Right. Not only to his people,

but to other flight schools and said, hey. Come and do three touch and goes in my airport, and then go do three at Long Long, three at don't do nine at my airport. That's the kind of message he's putting out. I see.

Very simple. I do know Centennial. I've never experienced it because I just don't go there, but they will know touch and go. I have experienced it. I don't go there very often now, but in the past, I've tried to go to Jeffco. So, like, you know, in down for touch and go, and they're like, not today or not.

This was

just Please go somewhere else.

Published. It it's it's now published out there. That Alright. That airport is not gonna allow Yep. Certain amount of planes in the past. So Right. I just thought, well, that's gonna affect us. And it's Absolutely.