Airport Economic Development Advisory Board - Regular Meeting

I'm in. Sorry. I'm gonna get out

and then

let you guys start your meeting. Go. Our video is on.

There we go. Okay. Clicked on. That's okay. You can go ahead, and you can start.

K. Today is Thursday, January 22. Calling to order the meeting of the air Erie Airport Economic Development Advisory. Roll call. Michael Bowden. Here. Kevin Kane is not here. Hannah Dowling is not here. Paul Hufftailing, here. Drew McClain is not coming. Lyle Martin? Here. And Jennifer Webb? Here. Okay.

That's 487, and we have quorum. Go ahead, Adam. United by States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Agenda. Everybody's got a copy of it. She has to read it. Comments? Questions? Motion

to approve. If we strike number seven, yes. Well, we'll get to that.

It's still on the agenda. K. Yep. Yep. Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Previous meeting agendas, did you ever minutes, did we get

any other? It was simple. Yeah. Almost like the agenda. Okay. And it was just

the one from last month? Yeah. It's just I Yeah. To everybody I haven't read it.

I've got three sets of each.

And Actually, think you choose One of the things You

have to sit down here. Doesn't exist. There was

you can't get minutes for this study session that

we had.

No. No. No. That one, I don't. Yeah.

Now giving you, Like,

I could else. Yeah. Let's take let's take a look. Guys, keep going.

Alright. Honestly, I have not seen the minutes from the.

I haven't seen them either. I don't Did you

kick this?

Said Did you send them to you?

Sent them to you, and it simply said the entire meeting was spent discussing the fee structures.

Did send them to me? Because I think that's what I used for your agenda packet. Sorry. I've been working with so many

boards lately on their agenda packets, and I'm pretty sure

see it.

I see it. I only sent it

to her.

So I'm gonna gonna suggest

since we haven't seen it, that we'll take that one and any other ticket to the next meeting.

You can, or I can pull them up. I think I can pull them up right now if you wanna take a look at them. It's up to you.

I don't

know how long they are.

It's yeah. It's super simple.

Okay. Great.

I think I can pull them up.

I got

you one liner.

Got it.

Okay. Alright. Give me a second here. Technology. Okay. So I'm trying this

one. Let's go.

Good time. Oh,

I got it.

Where's Julie?

Buena Vista, I guess.

Oh, is it? Yeah. I am. K.

I apologize. They do say sample on them.

I think that matters for all

But these are your minutes.

Correct? Well, that's No.

That wasn't the last one.

If it is

They basically didn't have anything under anything except for the the That's September's meeting.

Okay. September agenda, approval minutes, August minutes, and then this is not these aren't them?

That's not the the minutes from the last meeting.

Okay. I can let me

hold on just a second.

There's just one line under new business. Nothing.

Okay. Hang on. Let's go in. Let's do that. And airport.

That's the agenda. Yep. A e d a b special meeting oh, special meetings start 01:22.

Yeah. I don't have. That's just it's a friendly reminder.

I don't have him.

Okay. I'll send him again.

Alright. Let's Move on? We'll punt to the next meeting. Okay. But then we'll make sure we have all of them. We can clear out any ones that Okay. Excellent. Get them all caught up. Okay. K?

Sounds great.

Alright. Moving on. Public comment. Let's see if you go so I guess we don't have to do that. General business. A, agenda packet support presentation twenty twenty six.

That's me.

Okay. So hi, everybody. I've met everyone. I'm Michelle Crawford, deputy town clerk. I'm here to talk to you a little bit about agendas going forward for advisory boards.

It has been decided that what the town clerk's office would like is to keep a better record of your agendas and agenda packets and what's presented in your meetings. So what we're gonna do is much like what we do with town council, and that is when you send us your agenda and any attachments that you let's say you have a presentation, Loki has presentation, Julian. Any presentation that you have, even if somebody's coming from the outside, what we wanna do is get that at the same time that we get your agendas. So we're gonna send you reminders a week early asking for all of that information. Your staff liaison should be able to help you out.

What we will do is, like the meetings with town council, when you look at an agenda, you see live links on that agenda.

This one there is here.

Yeah. And when you click them, that will open up the presentation so you can review it before you come to the meeting. We will do the same thing with your minutes. So when you send them, I will attach them under the minutes, and you'll see a live link so that you can read them before, and then you can approve them right in the meeting. And we're gonna do this from here on out so that we will keep your packets in Laserfiche. So when the public goes in, if they've missed a meeting, they wanna see what happened, they wanna see a presentation, they can look at and see the entire packet. And so

It'll be just like council meetings.

It'll look just like council meetings. Yeah. So, we think it'll be a better way of tracking everything, for you all, and I think it's also gonna be really helpful for you when you're doing minutes because you'll have it to refer to, and you can go back. So I'm gonna see if I can pull that up again,

And then we'll see if we can or is that just gonna

there it goes. Okay. So for example so I can show you what yours looks like.

Share.

There it is. So this is the software we use. It's called Granicus.

Where do I

it's a it's a kind of a quirky little software. It it's actually kind of a behemoth of a software. So, basically, when we look at your agendas, your agendas look like see if I oh, and I go back over here. So when we look at your agenda, this is what it looks like for the evening, and it's all numbered. And you guys have all the advisory boards have a set of agenda for call meeting to order, the roll call, the approval of the agenda, the approval of the previous meeting minutes, general business, and adjournment.

So yours are pretty simple and straightforward. So what happens is when we need to add an item because you have a presentation such as the one for tonight, we have to do what is called an agenda item. And so it's actually another document that we open. There's a memo to it. And when what will happen is your staff liaison or the clerk's office will help you to put these together. And so, basically, what we'll need is a brief synopsis of what you're presenting, and then we can fill out the agenda memo for you. And then we can load up all your attachments.

So we no longer have to worry about getting formatting and everything on a Word document. You do need oh my god. Yeah.

No. You can send me your agenda. I'll put it all in. Additional. Yes.

You all will take care of that.

We'll take care of it. So this is the agenda item, and so this is what it looks like. It's a standard template that we use one for for town council, and we use one for planning commission, and we're using the town council one for you. So it's a standard. We won't use all of the items because yours are pretty straightforward, and they have things that are a little bit heavier, if you will. And so they'll have different subject matter titles. So in this one, it just simply says it's the agenda packet support presentation for 2026, then it's the administration operations department, which is ours. Clerk sits under that. Who's presenting? And tonight, I am, so I'm in there.

I estimated about ten minutes. And then policy issues, just that granted his legislator agenda packet preparation, and that we just wanna prepare the advisory board agenda packets when necessary for advisory board meetings. Of course, every month, you'd be approving minutes, so it will be a packet with the minutes in it.

We are not in this. You all are.

We are in this. Loki's in it.

We don't

Stephanie's in it. Look at Stephanie. My name. Julian's in it. So yes. Minute.

Are you on?

This is us. And then it we'll fill out some summary key points and some background information. We may not use all of this, and it can be as simple as one liners. When you look at a council member memo, it's meaty. And it then

I've looked at them. Yeah.

Yeah. And then what we do is at the very bottom, we have attachments, and we like the name of the attachment to be exactly the name of the attachment here. And so there it is, the sample minutes, and I had oh, I think I can open that up. I don't know if it'll allow me to open it up and see it again. I might have to stop.

Let's What type of detail are you

wanting and expecting of minutes as far as

Whatever you normally supply, what happened, who spoke, what decisions, you know, were made, and that's basically what we're looking for in your minutes. Your minutes are even what we do in town council minutes, you look at them, and your minutes over the course of your the history of your board have been fine. We do action minutes for the town council meetings, so they simply state what the item was. And I just you know, we discussed it. This was the decision going forward, and that's it.

Next item who voted yes and who votes?

What it Right. Records the votes.

Yeah. If you if you voted. So if you've you know, following people voted or all in favor, yes. Or if it was a split vote, just list who voted yes, who voted no.

Yeah.

They won't have the same we're not in the same software and meeting manager for them. So theirs is electronic. Yours, actually, you'll do by hand.

Have you considered and what have you allowing the recordings to be submitted to ChatGPT for summarization by AI?

We have

a wonderful job.

Yeah. We have talked about that, and there has not been a decision made on that. We have talked about that even for taking the minutes overall overall.

Some of

the boards have asked. The town has been working on their AI policy, and it is, I think it's complete at this point, and it's been approved. Now they're working on an internal bot. So they're still in the process of making those decisions. So it's been a long, go. I sat on the committee for it.

Unlike where you would use generative AI to create Right. Its interpretation when you have the summarization since

Right.

Very, very simple and Yeah. Fairly private. It just goes in. It doesn't

Right. Go to learning.

You know, it doesn't provide any learning for the AI. It just It's just reporting it. Summarizing Yeah. A recording.

Yeah. And TreeBoard's asked us for them

as well. Did.

I saw one of your HOA meeting, which is that. Think I think Braun did it. Yeah. Somebody recorded it, and Braun had

But the format Yeah. I do it. How you store the recordings right now, it it can't be used because it can't be accessed by ChatGPT, but that could be changed.

Okay.

Alright. So that's how we'll go forward from here. So your agendas could be as simple as they are now with just the attachment of the minutes, and this also allows us to keep up on the minutes. So every month, you'll just send us the agenda with the attached minutes. I'll fill out the memo for the minutes because that's gonna be pretty standard. And then any presentations, we will rely on staff to do agenda memos or help to fill those out. So your agendas here going forward could be as simple as just having the minutes attached. Or if you have presentations, then we'll add those as well.

Along with the standard.

Correct. So if you just have discussion items, Paul, and you're you you don't have anything attached to it, that's still just fine. That's fine. So that's how we're going forward.

Sounds very much structured and standardized,

but it does sound like more work for you.

You gotta

input it all into your

We're we're used to it. We're used

to it.

So it's fine.

Somebody needs to do that work.

And then the second part of tonight is about appointments. So we have for airport coming up, Kevin Kane is expiring at the April. Lyle is expiring at the April. Andrew, who's expiring at the April and has already notified us that he will not be

He is expiring in April, or he's expiring in 2027? He's still stepping aside.

He's expiring in 2026. That would that's what we have. So he is not reapplying is what he's already informed the clerk's office.

Regardless, he stepped aside.

Yeah. And then, Michael is 2026. So we have four, for airport that we need to, reappoint. We are gonna open applications, come February 2, which is a Monday. And the applications will be open for a month, and then we will close them.

And then we will prepare the packets for the advisory boards. All advisory boards are going through this at the exact same time. We'll prepare the packets for you for your March meeting, and you will review them and make decisions on who you would like to move forward. And then we once you let us know that and you're in agreement on it, you'll inform the clerk's office. We'll prepare the resolution for the advisory board appointments for all boards, and that's gonna go

Sent agreement.

Correct. And then we will give that to council for their April meeting. We've got two meetings in April, and we'll give it to them likely the second meeting. And then those appointments will become effective for your next meetings in May, and we will start onboarding everybody for the May meeting.

And then the May meeting is when we would have elections internally of the three officers for the

That is correct. Yes. So your first meeting, you will then appoint your, you know, vote on who will be chair, vice chair, and secretary. Yeah.

So it's just most of are due up here in April. Do we have to reapply now? And it comes out in February?

Yes. So if if for any reason and we do have a few people that have been appointed to boards in the last six months, we have told them that we can allow for their application to stay. So if you applied if you were appointed in the last six months, we have your application on file, and we can submit that as part of the packet. If you your application was done, you know, six months and one day ago or longer, you're gonna have to reapply. Yes.

And it's a new application process that we're doing. It's it's actually pretty nifty. Same question or something? It it has a it it does have some new questions, one of which is, are you applying to more than one board? And then we want you to rank them so that we can let you know this person is applying for airport and maybe open space and trails, but they put airport first. And so if you, you know, select them, then They can serve on two. You cannot serve on two. Yeah.

So we would put them forward to you first. And because he was appointed how long ago? Was it a year and a half, two years?

No. A year ago. Barely. Yeah. So he's filling out the remainder of Scott Delaouise's term. That's why he's up now.

Oh, okay. Okay.

So the ones expiring are myself, Lyon, Drew, and who was the fourth? Kevin. Kevin.

Lyle, let me take a look at you.

Me, Kevin, and you, Jennifer, are twenty twenty seventh.

So Lyle was appointed 11/12/2024.

Yeah. So we'll need you to complete another application.

Yeah. Make sure you fill that out, buddy.

And that's all the information I have for you tonight, unless you have any questions for me.

No. Other than wasn't clear. Drew is not continuing. So we're good. Definitely help. It's fine. Okay. Yeah. He has he just he has.

Sent his

down the road, but just for everyone's edification, I am not running for chair again. Anymore. Down to six years, I wanna give someone else a chance.

That's in that's in May. Right?

That was the

That's in May. Yes. That's in May. Yeah. Okay. Any other questions? You may have all Thank

you very much.

Will depart. Thank you for having me. Thank you. It was good to see you all.

Sounds great. I mean, what you're saying? It's gonna make our lives a heck of a lot easier.

Yeah. Most of the boards have been very excited.

If for any reason other than I don't have to worry about formatting a next word document. Anyways, thanks. You're welcome. You know how to take a look at the end and record this one. Okay. Officers reports. I don't really have much to report on other than what's gonna come up in some of the other agenda items. Yeah.

Chair's point

of view.

Mister chair is absent. And secretary of this matter, anything new?

We work with the community involvement. Don't know anything. So, yeah, we did. Okay. Committee reports, airport fund report. Do we have anything that we really need to discuss with respect to that? Because the the airport fund report kinda is determining by what we kinda discussing about the About the fees. Fees.

So Yeah.

It's kinda double listing it, but that's okay.

Yeah. You know, we're working through the end of year audit and all that stuff for for all of the town's finances, so that'll include the airport. So once we get a year end snapshot of expenses, I can send an updated An update. Airport fund just to show how 2025 went.

Are your projections pretty much holding?

I actually haven't haven't taken a look at it recently, but I haven't heard anything to suggest otherwise that and, you know, the we we did set the budget based on based on those projections for 2026.

And that's around $3.75 something?

Yes. Total? Total. Yep. Including the airport manager contract, which was two the biggest chunk at 240,000. Right.

Well, this change impact that?

Oh, that's well, in order

It wouldn't impact the expenses, but it would impact the revenue side significantly.

Any questions? What what is the status of that

proposal for ordinance change and what are the next steps?

I think that proposal for ordinance change is secondary to the fee structure. That ordinance has the major a major component of the fee structure as part of it. I see. It looks like one I was wondering what the tenancy is working. Yeah. That's dependent upon Okay. What we present in our final recommendations and the council decides. In the end.

Yeah. Right now, the airport fund is receiving money from the general fund, so there's not really any money that the airport's generating in excess itself to to be worried about keeping in the airport. I think once you change the fee structure to potentially have the airport be net neutral or even be positive, that's when you see the necessity for a conversation about that ordinance and changing it so that the airport has, you know, the ability to to keep those funds that it generates.

Right. Whatever's well, whatever. Right. That's a part of that ordinance, but the ordinance does determine this the first word for price that ground leases and everything else is built on.

Yeah. It'd be it'd be two separate. Right? Because there's the the fee schedule, which is set by ordinance. So that's one you know, the town has a fee schedule ordinance. So that's one ordinance that would require being passed by the town council to change the fee schedule. And then there's the ordinance that sets up in the code how the funding for the airport works Right. Which you've also been talking about.

And a new ordinance has the flexibility to specify a periodic review and maintenance of the fee schedules without having to change the order ordinance. Right?

Yes. Yeah. We could build an inflationary value into the the fee schedules. Right.

First one is the fee recommendations of admin adopting the fees. Second one would be the ordinance to determine the square footage pricing. Mhmm. And then the third one would be if there is if it's a positive cash flow on the airport fund. Yep. That makes sense? Yep. Any other comments about Hanger committee. In general, discussing hangers, my first question is the RFP queue. What exactly is it?

P. It is a p. Or a p. Yep. Okay. Have you all read it?

In the first draft. Mhmm.

But not the final. Not the final. Can we distribute the final to these folks? Yeah. I can send an email out. Okay. Have we had any responses yet or questions?

Yeah. The deadline for questions is tomorrow, and we received nine questions from two different vendors. So I'll be working tomorrow and early next week on responding to those questions, and the RFP closes on the February 6.

Have any of the comments or questions from the vendors? It's not enough time. No. No. No. I have received some feedback that they are are concerned about on it. Okay. Is there a process in which it would be extended? And if so, what is that process?

I'm sure there is a process. I'm not familiar with the process. I would recommend, have them, give them my my email and have them send me an email if

that's CC Julian.

And have them CC Julian and Stephanie if that's a a concern.

At this point, I think the likelihood of doing that would probably be kinda low, but we would repost it then if we got no submissions. Yeah.

It would be based probably be based on if we didn't receive enough submissions or quali I know high quality submissions that we could could repost it with an extended time frame. But

maybe it's not maybe it's not an answerable question. Do you anticipate there will be no submissions?

No. Since we got questions that suggest to me that there are people interested in responding, and I'm hopeful that we will have a a a few submissions to choose from. And I know Julian had said you'd heard from five or six different entities that might be interested.

So Might be interested expressed an intent to potentially do it.

Yes. Which doesn't necessarily mean they'll submit a proposal. That's more work than just saying, hey. I'm interested. But Well, of course. Yeah.

Right.

I'm hopeful.

You you might consider putting some weight in the the request for extensions based on the fact that when we posted the RFP and what have you, it was right in the middle of the holidays so that prevented people from spending a lot of time creating

a proposal. Well, it wasn't it wasn't published until, what, January 5 or something? Ninth. Ninth. Yes. It was held till after the holidays just for that reason. Okay. Alright. I got We knew about a way ahead of time.

Yeah. Yeah. Of

course.

January can be a slow start

for people. It was my interpretation that the ground ground lease was just a sample.

Yes. It's a sample ground lease.

Because it appears though it's more like the ground lease that is going to be prepared or executed for, like, the FBO, not somebody who's just renting the ground for a hangar.

Yeah. Well, it's it would be, you know, it'd be potentially executed with the the developer if they were, you know, building the hangars for rent. If they were building them for sale, then we'd have to think about how to transfer the the ground lease and make it transferable to whoever was Individual owners. In individual owners. But, yeah, we just wanted to include a sample ground lease from our airport attorney with some of the standard provisions to hopefully ease the process in the future when we're negotiating the contract and say, hey. Here's what we think will be in the contract. So if you have any issues with it if you have issues with it, let us know in your in your response. Right.

K. Anybody?

So you're send it out? We can go to the city website and look it up.

Yeah. I'll email a copy to the advisory board.

Yeah. Because I

Read an account. Yes. Fine. Yeah.

Not the easiest thing in the world too.

It's free.

Find it. Anything else on hangers?

Community engagement. You said during Nothing. Middle of the winter, and there's not much staff. Airport

manager's report, I just talked to him before he before he came. He's not coming. There really is no report. Final discussion of airport fees. Everything that we've discussed up until now is very public, but my intention was originally to have the final discussion today.

I don't really feel comfortable having that discussion now since three of our members are not here, and any final recommendations or votes that we would have. I really, really would want every one of them to be here. Yep. So if you're all are acceptable in agreement, I would move that we just table this until the next meeting that we have. Maybe it'll be early early.

If you're all good with that, we'll cover anything unless you have clarification, pertinent questions that you need answered in the in the interim. I don't wanna get into too much detail with respect to

So the city study session is February 17? Yep.

Yeah. So that was what I was gonna say is that we're currently on the schedule for the seventeenth to provide a an airport update, which will include additional things, but was when we were planning to bring a potential fee study fee schedule recommendation from this board.

Right. And our next scheduled meeting is the nineteenth.

To nineteenth. Later, that's not gonna work No.

We're trying to accomplish.

So what Can can we meet earlier?

Can we what?

A week earlier than nineteen?

Yeah. I think that's what we're contemplating, Anil, is is that we really in order to meet the deadlines that we're all trying to get to, we have to.

Yeah. I would recommend two weeks from now on the fifth, two weeks before that council meeting because with council meetings, we generally, as a rule, want to get all materials in the Friday two weeks before the council meeting. Yeah. So that meeting's on the seventeenth, and we'd like to have all the materials in by the February 6, which gives the whole next week for staff to review the materials and approve them and make sure they're they're ready to go out in the packets on Friday. So if you met on February 5 I cannot do fifth. K.

What's that? Okay. And when's I can do? Yeah. Absolutely. Just the fifth, I have a commitment for something in Denver.

The fourth has Other meetings. Other meetings as does the third. The second does not have another meeting.

Is there a alternate room we can have our meeting? I think so because the technology and everything is set for meetings. I didn't know there was only one. The only

other one

is the big. The one this guy sits at. And then the old one is

Or the this I don't know.

That wouldn't work. Would it be a would it be a big deal if it was the following week?

I I think because this isn't anything because it's a study session. The council is a study session. Yeah. Because the council meeting will be a study session, and they won't they won't be approving anything. We could probably make it work if you met on the twelfth, but I'll have to talk to the clerk's office and other staff and and make sure that's okay. But

But for us, it's better to have the numbers in the study session.

Mhmm.

Well, yeah, either way, it's beneficial for you all to have the answer from us before that study session. Yeah. Because then after the study session, presumably, the council will meet again and actually have a formal discussion and vote.

Yeah.

But you can't vote on the study session.

I I I think meeting on the on the twelfth would be better than trying to meet later and push that council study session back or have the study session without a fee study because then that would really put the fee study the fee schedule

What about Yeah. Yeah. Right. I like I said, I can do the twelfth. What about you all? Yeah.

I should be back. Yeah. You should be? Well, I'm flying back from Michigan the day before, so if everything goes fine, I'll be here. You're flying yourself?

No. Oh, commercial? Yeah. Oh, so there's a high probability you'll be okay.

Yeah. If I survive If he gets to Michigan.

If he could survive, you wouldn't.

My trip to Michigan.

Well, that's my point. You're not flying yourself. That might be a little bit more

Do we do we have a you know, last meeting, we went through a lot of detail, and I think we have a pretty sound structure of what it is that we'd like to present.

Yeah.

Do we have a summary of that? I believe you had your

I had one, but it's obsolete at this point. But it wouldn't be that hard to modify it. And quite frankly, I would ask for assistance from Julie and Stephanie to kinda put that together knowing how I think it'd

be good if we could put together some summary of the structure that we're looking at Yeah. And get that out as soon as possible to the advisory board and others.

Before the meeting on the twelfth.

We're meeting on the twelfth.

That's a great idea. I agree with you. Mhmm. Yeah. Just so we can get to where we want tested in Yep. Yeah. We have a deadline. And, essentially, since we're scheduling it, the deadline really is the twelfth to right? Mhmm. And that would facilitate us meeting more likely meeting that deadline. So I I think it's a great idea.

Alright. So

You wanna do it? Not really. Okay. Okay. We can put something together for that meeting and get it to everybody for that, which is what you're suggesting. Yes. Yep. I think it's a great idea.

Yeah. Do you want me to run through what I think I understand the structure as proposed is real quick?

Right. Do do you have you read it, or have you heard what we discussed last meeting? I have. I think you need to hear some of that right now at a high level. Yeah. The devil's always in the details, and, you know, we got a lot of stuff to work through. But I think the structure is there to get us to a revenue neutral position. So so I think it'd be good for you to hear.

And, yes, you know, you don't have a video and Because video wasn't working last meeting, so he can't watch and see the form that was on the screen. It wasn't working? No. It's blank. Okay.

Oh, dang. It's unfortunate. It is very unfortunate.

Alright. My understanding of the the proposal was that we were going to basically split through the fence and kind of two into two, a through the fence access fee and a base fee, like a basing fee per airplane. Correct. The through the fence fee would be applied to all properties that have through the fence access to the airport, which should be on both the commercial and the residential side.

So Fundamentally, that is correct.

Yeah. On the residential side, we are going to split the through the fence fee between improved access and unimproved access through the fence.

Explain. But there's three categories, but it's worth explaining to Neil what those categories are. Go ahead. K.

This is your categories.

Category three, and I'll work up. Category three is someone who actually lives at the airport, has a property within the airport, does not have taxiway access, does not have a hangar. They really are just there to have a house. They will pay no fees. At least that's the recommendation. Then there's those who don't have direct taxiway access to from their property, but through right of way easements

Deeded access.

Deeded access. They have the right to get to a taxiway or a runway indirectly. Would that be a good word? Yes. Going going between two other houses to get there, that would be a fee, and we had discussed that it would be 60%. Is that right? Going by memory or 40. 40%. 40% of whatever the category one ends up being.

And category one would be direct access. So those that are on the runway don't have to cross a road, that sort of thing.

Okay. K. Now that that fee would be

$800 was the number we were I remember being thrown out in Yeah.

And I think that's subject to But it's fine then.

Absolutely. Study session. That's where we ended at the last meeting. You brought your comments and kinda like, alright. This is this is significant. We need to dig deeper in this. And, honestly, that's probably the primary point to cover and figure out at the December 12. At the twelfth, February 12.

Yeah. I think, you know, just to sum up my thoughts from the last meeting was, you know, how do we get all the stakeholders to

contribute equity? To read parity is the word I came away with.

Yeah. I think that's good. And, you know, when I look at the airport residents versus Schofield hangars, you know, we don't have parity. Are we gonna get to parity? Correct. I don't know. But correct. I had a discussion with our HOA board as a resident, not as a part of this board. Right. And, you know, I think everybody as long as they sense that it's an equitable solution will get on board. Devil's in the details. There's, you know, lot of questions about deeded access and that sort of thing, But as long as it's equitably applied across the airport, I think we'll be okay.

And I think that's what the approach we've taken from the beginning, and I think we've done a really good job at it to get to theirs, but your devil's in the details comment is sailing in here. Excuse me. Because that parity question has not been answered yet, and we need to we need to come to that. And that really is the fundamental number one topic at our next meeting because all of the other topics other than the actual dollar amount, I think we all pretty much agree to.

Right? Mhmm. Yeah. And you have on your laptop there the spreadsheet that we were discussing on the screen all time with the

Yes. Yeah. We had

So one day I finish your synopsis for him and then let him see the spreadsheet because I think it'll be Yeah. And now

how do we compare with the nearest airports, this 800 fees with Longmont or other airports? We used

those as a kind of benchmark for how we arrived at some of the answers that are part of

Yeah. But it's really hard. The residential component where is very unique. Like, most places don't have an airpark with residential through the fence fee access, so there's not really a good example to go off of for through the residential through the fence fees. We're we're pretty unique in in that aspect. But the commercial through the fence fee, on a square foot number we talked about, currently at 25¢. We talked about moving that up to 32¢.

A raise between 32 and 30¢.

Is in line, with other, airports in the region. And then so that would be for all commercial properties with through the fence access. And then there would also the the base fee would just be per plane. Basically, like, you know, you get a a fun sticker for your plane that says you're based at the Erie Municipal Airport, and that would cost the same per plane, whether it's residential or commercial or industrial, whatever.

Cobb, Cirrus, Pilatus. It's a vehicle with wings that lands at the runway and stays here overnight.

So another question may here, in other words.

I I I think in general, we were proposing fees that were at the higher end of the comparisons, the comps, to the other airports. In terms of the the square footage price? Just, like, landing fees or or not landing fees. That's high down fees and things like that. When we compared it to two or three other airports,

we were on the higher end. We were not the cheapest.

Yeah. I know. Course.

We don't don't think our we don't think the Erie Airport falls at the bottom of the barrel either. We think it's in between Rocky Mountain Metropolitan and Platte Valley. Is that a good one? And we

were comparing Not really. And we were comparing ourselves to one month. Boulder. Boulder. Yeah. One

month. Yeah. Boulder is a better one because Boulder we're our facility is is better than Boulder's for a number of reasons. Most importantly, Erie has an an instrument approach to the runway. Boulder does not. So in weather certain weather conditions, you can't go to Boulder. You could do it here.

Go ahead. Question I have is, did we consider when their rates were changed and when ours changed? Because if they do a change, we'll again fall into the bottom, and did we consider putting little higher than them because what if they change and Sure. We fall

We we consider that that where we were projecting going forward that they would catch up to us.

And our current recommendation is that every three to five years, that would be reevaluated in terms of bringing it up to

a bit of a discredit.

Yeah.

The other thing that we found and and don't let me step on your time. No. The other thing that we found, a good example, is airworthy versus nonairworthy aircraft. And the best example we use that we got from Emmett is riding down the Metropolitan Airport charges, like, 200 and some odd dollars for an airworthy airplane to tie down on the tarmac at the airport. That's just outside ropes holding it down.

For a nonairworthy aircraft, it's more than double, which was surprising. But as part of that information and analyzing what it is that we thought would be a recommended price for both tie downs here and ground leases ever, we came up with an escalation in the tie down rate for on a flat fee whether it was airworthy or not. But most importantly, we we came to a conclusion that for the porta ports and any prospective ground leases for hangars that there should be minimums. And we determined it's at a 150 or trying to remember. It's on machine.

It's on the machine. Yep. We have a minimum of a 150 per if you take the square footage price of even 36¢ by 40 by 45 hangar and calculate the the lease rate, it's less than a $150 a month. So our position was, look. We should have some minimums, and we came in at a minimum for the square footage price. If you get over that minimum, then it's gonna be more. And that's kinda where we are with those numbers. Go ahead.

We're making some big moves. Know, Paulie, I'll give you some examples. So, like, Main Street business that they have access to their park. Many of those businesses are not doing anything associated with using the the airport, but they have hangars. They could be using it. They have not been charged so far Mhmm. Access. We're proposing that anybody that has access to the airport shall pay a three or three times fee. You know? So that's gonna be a bit of a change for those folks.

Over in that same complex, we have one operator that has a minimal amount of square footage that he's being charged rent for, but he has 10 airplanes. So right now, he's just paying a square foot fee for his maintenance hanger. Under our proposal, not only would he pay that at an increased rate, but he would pay $800 per airplane. So, you know, we're not talking little notes here, and there's gonna be, you know, lots of discussions gonna be needed as this goes forward. On the airport business, that currently is a negotiated fee based off of the fact that it's commercial, industrial, not all of them are using the space for airplane purposes.

Our proposal is every square foot of that facility will be charged a fee

going forward. That's a big change. No more negotiate.

Yeah. No negotiate fee. On the Schofield hangars, and and this is where I'm struggling a little bit with comparison with the airport folks. The Schofield hangars right now pay 25¢ a square foot for a 104,000 square feet, roughly $26,000 for a through the fence

for a

$100,100. So they're paying $260 per hanger on a through the fence. As an Air Park residents, we pay $600 per year for through the fence. So the discussion is why is there a difference there and how do we get that more? You know, part of it is, well, you know, they're commercial. They don't have quite as nice a hangers, whatnot as we have. My argument would be we're private residents. We can't have commercial activities by a code. Mhmm. You know?

So why should we be paying more? Those are things we gotta get worked out, and I'm talking about, you know, the the parity and equity. On the Aeropark side, we're talking about going from $600 a month to 800, maybe a thousand. We don't know yet. We're still gonna figure that out.

But then you would also be paying per airplane. So for me, as an example, right now, I'm paying $600 a year. Under our proposal, I would pay 800 for the three defense plus another 800 for my airplane. So I go from 600 to 1,600. We're also proposing that those residents, as Paul mentioned earlier, that have needed access to the runway and there's we need to get the count right. There's previous studies at 55. I'm not sure that's accurate.

There needs to be an audit.

Yeah. There needs to

be an audit.

But let's just use the previous study that said there was 55 lots that had deeded access. 33 are currently paying through the fence. Not all of those are direct access, but most of them are are the direct access folks. So we're we're gonna include the rest of those 55 as part of the fee structure at a reduced rate. And so that goes back to the 40% versus, you know, the 100% I'd pay because I have direct access.

And then on the the tie downs, I think we're going from 50 to a 100, and the square footage fees, which we haven't bottomed out on, go from 26 to 32 or 35 or whatever we Okay. But the bottom line is this takes us from a net revenue of currently a little over a $100,000 per year, 150,000, something like that. Yep. It gets us pretty close to being at the $3.75 number that we need.

It gets us incredibly close to the town's general fund not having to provide any money towards the airport on an annual basis.

I think last time when I heard, we were, like, 70 or 80,000 below that. And now with all the changes, we we'll be,

like, net net It'll be really, really close. It won't be quite there, but you can see that with the addition of the dish of hangars, the increase of the square footage price, the nonnegotiating, the people who aren't paying the, you know, the folks that are operating a commercial entity and have nine airplanes on the located here while each airplane should all of those together get you incredibly close to, if not revenue neutral, revenue positive. It's gonna be painful for some people. For me, similar similar to your scenario, you know, I don't have a hangar. I rent a hangar from a resident.

That resident will pay the through the fence fee for the hangar on an annual basis. But to be honest with you, I pay $700 per month just to keep my plane inside a hangar. That's separate and apart from a through defense fees, but I would potentially also pay an $800 fee to the airport because my 700 goes to the owner of the resident. It's not part of the fund, but my fee for basing an airplane, which I will continue to do at the airport would go to the fund. So I got 700 a month plus 800 a year. It's similar.

The challenge you're gonna have as a council member is you're gonna have a lot of people that haven't had to pay before that are now being asked to Yeah. Be a stakeholder in this thing.

Yeah.

You know, and they're you know, like Paul said, there's gonna be some pain involved with that. But we think this is a structure,

not quite applicable yet, but hopefully, we get a little closer to the

the parity across the board.

This was not touched, like, in many, many, many years. Right? Like, the free structure. So This is all new. Yeah. So And it's trying to We'll see some resistance, which is okay. We just have to do those community engagement and see how like, public comment and see. From our perspective,

we think it's a justifiable, and the mayor was here at the last meeting. We we touched on that. Is that the cost of operating the airport, that burden is placed on the users of the airport primarily, and it pretty much eliminates the criticism of those other residents who have no interest in using the airport and don't come there, don't have a plane, don't do anything there, the primary burden of operating the airport is no longer on them. And we think that makes sense. Mhmm.

I think it it makes sense. And we're not and we're not suggesting nor do we support landing fees.

No. The touch and goes are not there.

We're not doing we're not suggesting. We're not incorporating any landing fees.

What do other airports do? Do they have landing fees?

No. Not any of that are around here. It's being discussed. Commercial airports. Yeah. Most most

of studies about, GA airports have done landing fees. It has negatively impacted them instead positively. And

in some cases, it has a potential of affecting your ability to get grants from the FAA.

Yeah. We believe the FAA is gonna be proposing at the congress level legislation that would prohibit the use of ADS B for the fees. So, you know, it's just a path. We don't It looks gonna do us a lot of good. Let's look at other opportunities to get what we need to go to.

What's gonna be on that?

Not too much. I think you've provided a a great summary of where your conversation went last time for the fee study and Yeah. Where you're at now. And, you know, I have I have those details in a in a spreadsheet so that at the next meeting, we can play around with the numbers and and move them around as we see fit as as

we the conversation evolves. So who has the action to put the summary that we can get out here in the next week or so?

That's me. I'll I'll put the summary together and send it out to the board.

I can help you with it too if you need any Okay. Assistance.

And I just wanted to say that on the briefly going back to the airport hangar RFP, it looks like Julian did send that out in an email on the twelfth

He did. To all of you. To all the board members.

With the with the PDF of the final RFP and the

check that email one more time.

Email. I know. I don't

Can we get on Outlook for

I have my I have the airport. I have my airport board email, my town email on my phone. So, yes, you could do Outlook and Yeah. It's very easy. Okay. Doing it on a computer, though, is a little tedious. Do you you wanna send that spreadsheet to Daniel? Yeah.

I can send it to him.

Yeah. If Julian has sent it to everybody, I might have it. Right? Or this

is This is Neil. This has on set up.

Was shared with everybody. But since you weren't here, you weren't

Yeah. Please.

Benefit of it. And then you could just plug in the numbers, kinda look at what we got. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm happy as long as you

the one. This is is my version. Okay. I can your your version has some pretty coloring

to it. It's pretty in it. If you change the online, if you change the price for the per square foot, it'll change everything. But do whatever you

Sounds good. Thank you.

I'm happy as long as the general fund is not bleeding. Revenue almost neutral is what

It it is a huge step forward to, I think, collectively Mhmm. Wanna try and be. Now the rough part is up to you all. Yeah.

Yeah. And then council will also be feel comfortable with, you know, all the changes. I don't see you know?

May I The mayor was he was engaged. He spent a lot of time. We were all very thankful that he was here because he provided council input, not just as mayor, but as council in terms of where we're going. And We had a pretty in-depth discussion about it.

So you wanted to know how fast we could put it in place.

Yeah. The more we delay, the more it'll bleed. Right? Yep. Mhmm.

Anyways, I don't know how long it takes for you all to once you get it to open it up for public comment and take the arrows and

It also depends on the resistance we are getting and, you know, how much we need to educate people.

That'll be the key. That'll be the key. I think the general population will be people who don't live there don't that the town's not spending

Those people who don't live there do care. They want it to be revenue neutral.

No. In in the sense, there will not be any resistance from them. Like, other issues we see, like, the entire time coming and giving inputs. Right? Here, you'll see probably resistance only from that area. From the users. Yeah. And everybody else will probably not even attend this in this in here.

Yeah. Right.

Yeah.

K. Good? Yeah.

Thank you.

I'll put together the summary sheet and send it out to the board. And next meeting is the twelfth, not the nineteenth.

Correct. I will jolt to the other three and make absolutely certain that they don't make conflicts. Hopefully, they know. Yes, sir.

Running out of time.

We're running out of time, and we don't have a lot of options. Yep. Alright. There's not anything else. Thanks for coming.

Yeah. I did so much.

Over here. I do have a question that, you know, once we get this to the council, the study session happens, and let's say that we move forward with a structure that's collectively agreed upon, How long does a

public opinion process take? What do what do you see? So depending on that study session format also has public comment. So when people know this, I'm sure they'll come to this study session and have this. And if there are a lot of people, then maybe we will advise staff to do some more education towards the people there, get more surveys or whatever out and get that engagement going on. And I think maybe the next time this could come on to the council is maybe what is that? In April?

Yeah. I don't have the schedule. The

town managers and the mayor sit and put it in the agenda for next one. It's all packed, so the next one could be a month or two away. In that time, maybe we'll advise to do this education and And

we need to do some outreach because this is gonna be new to a lot of people. Yeah.

And we need something that will come with

go out to them and say, okay. This is why this is happening. And even though they may be unhappy, at least they have an understanding of

why we're With the facts and where we are and where we can be And,

you know, whether that's something Jason can kind of, you know, as the airport manager, kinda take the lead on and because they're gonna the the community is gonna start hearing it, whether they're listening right now or, you know, it's gonna start getting out there. And I will say in my discussion with the HOA board, again, just as a neighbor Yep. You know, there was a lot of information that was incorrect that they were hearing.

Correct. And and thank you for doing what you did because like I said, that AI synopsis of the meeting, I know you were there, and you did a good job trying to tamp down the misinformation. Because based on what I read is for the minutes from that meeting, there was, like you say, some misinformation. So we have we have our job to do as part of all of this to provide as much outreach and information as possible because you're absolutely right too. And I

I Most comes from misunderstanding.

Right? I think

we'll have enough time between study session and the next council meeting where we vote on it to do some outreach.

Well, I yeah. And and I think it's important that everybody understands by no stretch of imagination have we been taking the approach that we're ramrodding this and shoving it down anybody's throat. It has never been our attention. Hell, how long have we been talking about this when the first study session we had in my office was probably six, maybe eight months ago? Yeah.

So just for the public knowledge, it has never been our attention to shove anything down anybody's throat. We've been thoughtful about it. We've done a whole lot of hard work. There's still some work to be done. And then we all, along with the council, we have another set of responsibilities to make sure that everybody knows what's planned, everybody has a chance to provide input and discussion about it. It's not gonna be an easy

I did wanna just jump in. I got a message from Dave Pasic earlier today, and I meant to share it with you guys a little bit earlier. But he did say that he wanted to clarify with this group regarding the fees that any proposed fees would need to be vetted by staff and our airport legal counsel. So That was assumed. K. Just wanted to make sure it was in black and white.

That was never misunderstood.

Yeah. Now it's on the record now. It's been said.

We are just an advisory board, and we don't make any problems. We we kinda That's true. Kinda assumed that would have to

be vetted. K. Just wanted to let everybody know.

So the through the defense fees have been collected for this year. You know, we we all pay for January 1. So it it's kinda like we have this year to get this processed Awesome. It's settled out. Yeah. Before the next cycle hits.

Cool. Any other questions, comments, concerns? Alright. With that, stay on the journey. Thanks, everybody.

So with the side by have you guys

read the

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