City Council - Regular Meeting

Oh, I'm a lot better than most people. It's like somebody left the gate open and all the idiots got up. Oh, like that. That's something you don't really want to tangle with me. Um, Carol is not joining us tonight. So, um, just to start out, we are going to table the city seal discussion.

Yes. My lips are Oh, wow. Okay. Good one. Let's see what you did there. Sealed in wax. So, Doug Park, Doug Park. So, uh I gave you all a memo um sitting in front of you. So essentially, we just wanted to catch up with you. We had a community engagement opportunity last week um on Thursday at the War Center. All of your absences were excused because you were at a council budget workshop.

Um it was, if you all remember, it was a pretty miserable afternoon. It poured rained pretty hard all day. Um so for that reason alone, we're grateful that we had about 12 people in attendance. um overwhelm going to back up for a second. There was also uh a survey that Ebony put together that went out prior to that that's still in circulation. I think we're up to 57 58 58 responses. So while it's not a representative sample of the population, it leaves us at least it gives us something to go by.

Um so back to the community engagement that went pretty well. thought um I think overwhelmingly our interpretation of what happened is people support the idea of a dog park. Their primary concerns were how is it funded and where it's going to be. Um we told them which is still the case that we've identified multiple funding sources for this various grants. Um the way we're approaching it is um at this point we don't see any need for taxpayer investment. is going to be 100% funded um through grant money. Um let's celebrate that for a little bit. Yeah, we talk fast. Yeah, celebrate that.

And the grant money. Um have you identified there's a T-Mobile Hometown grant that we have already applied for? Um which we should hear about this week. That's free money. Yep. And then there's is it Pyina who sponsors the park for your park? Yeah. So that's it's

they have a $500,000 dog park in Prescott, Arizona that was paid for by the Purina Park for your park grant, which is the same one we're applying for. We didn't ask for $500,000. Um, but basically when it came to financing and funding, the story I tried to tell or the picture I tried to paint is we can if we want to go that direction, we can install a dog park with very minimal upfront investment. All it needs to be is a space that we can maintain that has some fencing in a place to park.

As we monitor the use level, we can put more amenities into it. We can add splash pads. We can add shade. We can add agility and fitness obstacles for the dogs. It can grow with use. So, it's a 100% scalable investment based on how we're doing with our funding sources at the time. Um, the other concern that came up um was the location. Uh there was some conversation about um that being prime commercial real estate. Um we did bring up the point that um given that it is either on the high school's campus or right next to the high school's campus, we would need to be very mindful of the type of commercial entity we allowed there. Um, and I made the case that by locating a dog park there, it jives a little bit better with the current feel of the environment, letting people know that this is a space for community engagement, public health, public use, and recreation. Um, the other thought with locating it there, um, it's immediately accessible from the pedestrian bike path, which goes right next to it. um

which is looking at being expanded. Is looking at the additional phasing of that to expand that. Yep. Um and with the best controlled pedestrian crossing anywhere on the route 1A corridor being right there, we can also tie it into um existing trails and sidewalks, pedestrian routes and as well as future um projects if we have in mind for that area for that side of high street as well. how the city acquired this piece of property. I what came out of the community engagement piece, a citizen did mention that the city purchased it,

but I don't I don't know that. I have no reason to question the individual's facts, but the um the city purchased that when u they were redoing the entrance and stuff to the school to the high school. Okay. So it was because it where the the one over by where the tennis courts Yeah. made it to be a dangerous intersection by moving it over where it is and it gave a straight line of sight and the DOT engineers and everybody said yeah they would go there's a fourway in this section.

Okay. I I don't know what the big pl you know like because it's always pretty good for a place like schools to have two ways a way in and a way out just in case something happens you know and that's actually the other access road is closest to the athletic field the tennis court which the chief I see is here he probably could attest it's a lot easier to carry someone to the ambulance It's closer to the road than it is to lose. So

So the but okay that's helpful. Thank you. So the property was purchased for municipal use related to the high school and but then it was not needed because of the DOT. No, no, they used they did use it. They did use but so there's the remaining property. Yeah. Part of part of it they I think the city gave a right away uh an easement so that uh him and lumber back when it was over with builder supply could have access because it's kind of a hassle getting their trucks

so seems to make sense considering the city bought it for use in this location. The question I have is, you know, probably with small dogs it wouldn't be too bad, but you get a bunch of larger dogs and American and whenever I gave a block of instruction in the military, I hated disruptions, especially when they start making loud noises and stuff,

you know, but There's other parts too. It's like the uh the landfill. That would be a huge area away from anybody. And I see a lot of people using the road out through walking their dogs. Some of them cut them loose. I think in our conversation about that that that suggestion was made at the engagement as well.

Um that isn't as accessible for a lot of people. You can't necessarily walk to it. Um and it what we're looking for is something that has more of a high impact investment for the community. Something that's upfront. Um we definitely do want it to be high visibility. The idea that people who are visiting the region, every single one of them will drive by that dog park. they'll pull into the dog park if they have a dog and want to let it run. Um, it's a great opportunity to advertise some of the things that are going on in Ellsworth and maybe encourage them to not just drive through Ellsworth, but to stop, have lunch, buy something, spend some money while you're here. Um, so the um the opportunity for it to attract some business as well, but not necessarily members of the community. Um, we don't want to miss out on that opportunity. I I'll add something too and it comes up about monitoring and enforcement later on, but you and I had conversations about this site versus other sites and it really came around to this one making sense and one of the things is the high visibility, not just for the economic impact of people seeing it, but for safety that um you've talked about, you know, for security, but just having it highly visible in a busy area um is going to just make it a safer place for for people to be if they're there just there to larger crews

in in wanting to install lighting, security cameras. Um, and then potentially, you know, we will want watering stations, potentially a splash pad, potentially a bathroom, having access to city utilities on site would be a big consideration as well.

Wanted to ask about the maintenance needs of a dog park. How does that how's that different from a regular park? Um, so one of the one of the big considerations that we're seeing would happen on the front end is to make sure there's adequate drainage because we don't want it becoming swampy, messy, wet, um, and then allowing guns to run through it because it tear up the the field. So with our initial site prep, um, when we put in a driveway or a parking lot rather, we'd want to make sure we have underground drainage, we tie in all of our, um, utility access points to be used in the future. Um, and at that point, it's just like any other park. talking about the grass. You empty the garbage. And you guys tick some fleas. You could treat. Yep.

Oh, you really should. That's actually a really good suggestion because uh Yeah. Yep. Hopefully people will make sure the dogs. What's the size of this? cuz um my ex-wife when I was married at the time took took the golden to a dog park in water and we ended up having to incur vet bills because she had killed

and that is um another piece of this is you know this is something that happens all over the country if not the world on a regular basis in all kinds of municipalities and it's managed very well and efficiently and what people usually find is the the folks who visit the dog park are the ones who are enforcing the rules they take ownership of it And if anybody's out of line, the people who frequent it will let them know. So I also want to throw out there, you said shade and the arbor commission obviously those trees in the nursery might be Yeah. And you know as a match to you know you're applying for think about that

and since you mentioned trees there's a couple of dead leaders on the north side of the property. Those are the only um existing canopy that we would be looking at removing. All the other trees on the property would stay. I was going to say they're two goodiz trees and then a lilac tree and then a giant lilac. The only thing we might do with the lilac if we have to is just relocate and about drainage. Um my dog and I did some research on Saturday. It was great. We parked at the at the high school and then walked down and we're able to walk around and I was looking at how wet is it going to be after all the rain and wheels on. So you got a thumbs up from a dog with more thumbs.

Yeah. The whole concept of being able to I think having it on the bike ped for people who live along that way having it in town and on the entrance as people are getting ready to start their vacations and you know way finding signs has already been that process but certainly signage there for since you stopped and there are things that you can do on your way. The um the other consideration we had for accessibility is making sure that we have ample parking so folks who aren't who do have mobility restrictions um seniors or anybody with ADA restrictions. Um having a nice groomed level parking area where they can get out and quick access to the actual park facility is a plus. Great.

So um so looking for next steps uh on the last page of the memo um we are willing to evaluate other potential sites um if we need to. Um we've already identified some funding opportunities um as part of the community engagement. We have 10 people who've requested interest in being part of a committee to to continue pushing this forward citizens. Yep. We got two we got two at the meeting and then a bunch from the survey. We had a question that was can you 12 then 10 from the survey and we also engaged with I don't most of you will remember last year the um young student who won the MMA

um one of the essay awards we he had mentioned dog parks in his what would make his community brighter so we do engage with him on this process too with his mother and he gave a bunch of ideas all of which were incorporated in the initial so cool have you talked to the neighbor at the church next door. We haven't yet. I wanted to get a kind of a feel from this group if it's worth going to talk to them because I don't want to potentially ring the alarm bell for no reason at all. Um but I think that's that's what we're looking for from you folks is and you talked to Amy at school. I have. Okay.

Yep. And there is a vegetative buffer between the church and this property that we intend to maintain and actually any infrastructure that we build in would be set back from that as well to create a a natural buffer. Um the other consideration we are preparing for a land and water conservation fund grant application. Uh and if if this is the site that we want to pursue, we can add it to the land and water conservation fund grant application and then that would leverage any grant funding that we have coming in would be matched 50/50 by land of water conservation fund. But we need to make sure that we're set on this property because any land of water conservation fund would take that property and cover it with public access for duty. So we want to make sure that this is where we want to go. That deadline is June 31st. So we would probably look for like official approval to be able to move forward with that intent.

Does there have to be any studies that you It's already as part of the land water conservation fund. I have to get project clearance from main natural area program mainland fisheries and wildlife and the main historic preservation commission. And we did include this property on those requests with the understanding that if we don't move forward that property, we just don't include it in the final grant application. But that's already the initial site assessment included this property and that's been been given the blessing by Bureau of Parks and Lands. Then we brought in those three other agencies and they're working on reviewing the project. And the time frame on when you think you'll

do break absolute earliest would be next spring. I like it. So yeah, so we will form the committee and um get to work and we will plan on including that in our land and water conservation fund grant application and we will be coming back with great Thank you. Yeah, great work.

Okay. Library renovation financing discussion. So, I did not print out the 68 page feasibility study for everyone. That's okay.

No, thank you. We're trying to save on our printing. Um, so I emailed you all that this morning. Um, one of the most important findings from the feasibility study was that donors want to see city support. So what do we do if we don't get federal funding? Um, the board has met. We have come up with a plan that we can slash the project in half, which is basically doing the HVAC and the new entryway and that's it. Um, and that would be $3 million. Yeah. And you still but you still need to match for private fundraising. So the feasibility study they found that

which I I hope it's a conservative estimate. They think we can raise a million one million. Do you need two million city in that scenario? Um we think we could. I'm meeting with Mike Sander tomorrow. Um we think we could get the project down to about 2.5 if we had to. Um, so a million city match would be minimum which would cover most of the HI. And what if we vote to approve the match for the two for the CDF? Do you want to give an update on the CDF?

So I had emailed you all. We went through for King. So we're anxiously awaiting will announce on Monday. Um, today I have been working to put together a list of businesses and organizations in the area that are willing to sign on to a letter of support that we will hopefully send out next Wednesday. I don't know if that's too late, but we're doing everything we can. Um, so if you all have something you would like to add to that list, someone we should be targeting, we We have about 15 yeses, but we're trying to get about 30 by Wednesday, which we should be able to get. But

I assume you're thinking regionally, of course, not just elsewhere. Yes. Great. This is exciting. Yeah. So, King was really good news, but we really And do we know what um what funding stream he is is going through? They are both rural development. Okay. So we haven't um done anything to secure the band bond or just so everybody not there's been no process for that yet um initiated. So, um if we wanted if we are not successful, which I'm thinking we will be soon,

but um if you if the council did want to pivot in and look at um using that band bond for potential match to donations, we would just have to make sure we were thoughtful in our language around that about what the band uh bond would be. I think we'd have to vote on it would have to be. Yeah. Yeah. And it is in the CIP, which we'll cover tonight. Um so it is part of our short-term projects um the the um total project not the um phasing

great word getting king and for colle we'll be signing thank you thank you very much yes that's where we Just an update. Fingers crossed. Yeah. If you have any questions, let me know. That is a Yeah, that document is 68 pages. So, you shared it with us. Yeah. Read it at your leisure. Seriously though, you guys have done so much work on this. It's been a long It's been a long time. Regardless of what happens,

almost two years after we started, you been with us three and if I could have started at month one I would have but it's okay. Yeah. Give you a pass. Yeah. Yeah. It was uh last week one of the boilers went out and we were like okay we made it through the winter. It's okay. It's okay. Like this is why we're doing this. It's like this stuff will just keep happening. Sounds like a weird affirmation, right? It's like I just Isn't it just lovely to have an old building?

I mean it is. I love it. I love that's why I moved to Maine was because of that building. So yes, it is lovely. Well, I mean that was part of the discussion of the when we had the capital campaign presentation some folks were like why aren't we just moving the the library and not internally but like externally. What are you going to tear down? We're like because it's such a cornerstone of our our community. There's no way. What a historic building. You know, it's like I the house I live in that was built the year my grandfather was born. Yeah. His name's on the building over there. Special. Yeah.

And and then the house next door basically the reason why I bought it. property line is so close, barely the distance you might want. Well, thank you for taking another look at phasing. I know it's not ideal, but it does give options for if HVAC stands for new boiler or new heating system.

Yeah. Yeah. New total heating system. And then we had a woman who fell down the stairs like two weeks ago and I was just like standing there watching her like lying in the pile of mulch under the bushes and I was going Oh, we cannot have a new entryway. That's why that it keeps rising to the top is like the new entryway is so important. So, the front and the back front door. Yeah, that front one that's looking out at downtown. You walk in and it's the children's and that's also like my kids are there. They'll just walk. They're like, "We're going to play outside." No, you can't do that. Yeah. So, you know, well, thank you all. Thank you. Thanks for that, too. Yeah,

fingers toes crossed. Yeah, May 11th. Okay, think good vibes. Up next, so yeah, we're not going to do the city seal discussion. So, we're up to thriving communities followup discussion, safe streets for all grant.

Um, I'm going to recap just very briefly where we're at with thriving communities program. And I have on here also which is the item after the one that follows this one the public restroom proposal. So they're both on the same side and top. Um I think I did them backwards. All right, we're going to go to thriving communities first. Here I'm just giving a a brief overview of the timeline. Um just the most recent timeline. On uh March 31st, Santech did a presentation of the High Street corridor to a stakeholders group. As you know, that prompted a bunch of phone calls and emails on our concern. Um and then so we were talking internally about that a little bit and and all of that. I had a few members of EVDC, the EVDC board, reach out and say, "Hey, can we can we talk about this a little bit and give you some suggestions about how to proceed one which I appreciated very much. One of them was to sooner rather than later set up a follow-up stakeholder meeting to um let the public kind of air their concerns and just yeah, just be more as we're not more transparent, but as transparent as possible about where we're at and what the study actually meant and all of that. So that led to a scheduling of an April 28th meeting which we just held. Uh we had 60 plus people come in person and a bunch more online. So that was you learn quickly like what people care about and why and that was um that was good in my opinion. It was yeah nice to see people show up rather than not have anyone show up or care at all about city matters. Um and so now today as of today feedback from that meeting um and our other stakeholder meeting was due to

Stantech for consideration in their final report which they'll give to us in June and um in that internally we have suggested and we're waiting to see if if funds can be found outside of the city i.e with our cap. Um but to ask if Santech would consider kind of duplicating their study but then tweaking it according to our feedback a little bit and our concerns. So they would take away the road diet. They would take away the closing of Gilzab. They would restore you know Bob Merrill's entrance points that he was concerned about. they would um you know put back the parking spaces at McDonald's that folks were concerned about but leave the green infrastructure um and some of the sidewalk addition up to myri. So you know kind of taking what people liked and taking or you know keeping that there and then and then taking out what we consistently heard was an issue so that we have two reports um in hand. We don't want to disregard, you know, the first one because that was what Santech was hired to do is to look at the safety aspect of High Street. It wasn't really a traffic study. It was a safety study, a multimodal safety study. Um, so we want to keep that, but then also really, you know, take the feedback into consideration. So, it looks like we'll have a little extra funding from our ARCAP consultants. they're going to go back to the US DOT and see if there's a little wiggle room with the money that was given to them to pay Stantech to do that additional piece. So, um, that's where we're at with that. And then what next is, you know, based on again the feedback we've heard and just understanding the the sensitivity around this topic, we have committed to increase stakeholder communication. Um Amy already has a city web page that's dedicated to the high street border project and we'll be updating that

regularly. Um econ will also do a monthly newsletter with the support of the planning department with project updates and then we'll continue stakeholder meetings and the next one is scheduled for August 25th. And then the the question that I'm bringing to you tonight is we do have our ARAP consultants for a few more months. Um and what is the best use of our final time with them? Is it that we ask them to more meaningfully work with us in stakeholder engagement? Uh is it this safe streets for all grant, which I'll talk about in a minute, or an option that Sarah brought up a few days ago was um a more focused engagement with main DOT.

So, Safe Streets for All is due on May 26. I'm jumping right to the bottom of that. Um it is a planning grant. The one we would be applying for is a planning grant focus on safety. Uh it would give us a comprehensive safety plan for High Street um the high street quarter the same one we've been studying that section. Uh it would include as part of the safety study that a more in-depth traffic and engineering study which I think would satisfy what the public has been saying about like this would need a lot more studies and it it would give it that

um and we could we depending on how much we ask for in the grant do a demonstration project that would probably prove what everyone is saying is right. Like let's say for two weeks we just we do the road diet and everyone's like and then we're like okay we all admit that's a bad idea right but like the the projects in it it's like I don't know. So that's all part of that. Um the cost of the city is a 20% match. So we let's say on the very low end did 100,000 which I think may be the lowest amount you can ask for then that's 20,000 for us and we have to decide where that comes from. It could be tiff funds but we have to look at that for the coming year. Um you said can be mostly in kind.

Yeah. So, right. So, Sarah, do I want to help? There's a break for sure time.

Yes. Um so, I actually in my previous life was a successful recipient for the safe street for all grant for five municipalities in Bangor and it was like a $600,000 grant. So the inind tracking is just basically our hourly rate um fully loaded with benefits. But then there is like a volunteer rate or if somebody from the planning board, we have a planning board member who is a traffic engineer. So his volunteer rate would be a little higher because we would just have to track those rates. And I think we calculated it that it would be about between like 600 and 900 hours to over the life of the um grant depending on what level of of volunteer it was. So um it is a pretty hefty volunteer commitment or staff time for tracking, but you can do a hybrid. You can do $10,000 u match and um the rest $10,000 worth of in kind. So, but we could mitigate the the dollars we'd have to cash with. I mean, obviously it's opportunity cost. You guys are working on other things,

but you have this grant. You have to have a pretty robust steering committee and things like that. So, um if you have a really engaged steering committee, it won't take you as long to get those in kind hours. So, ultimately, it's from a tax dollar out of the general fund expenditures can be significantly through I think tiff funding and um in kind and then you got to get do oh they'd have to be very much a part of this too. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's an overarching theme that we just need to be may you know have in the front of our minds that high street is main dot's responsibility. So nothing can get done on high street without main d's blessing. So we would have to be in lock step with them whether that be through an SS4A grant or a they have a um similar thing oh sorry um to the MPI the municipal partnership they have a PPI which is a planning partnership initiative um so either way we certainly would want to be strong partners but Main Dut has partnered with many municipalities across the state on the SS4A harbor has an SS4A that essentially comes goes from the um head of the island into downtown. I mean, they have different signaling concerns than we do on High Street, but they also have them.

But if we applied for this, we would we would become part of that study or section of High Street, the PPI.

Yes. So, if we were if we were accepted into that program, then we would kind of be molded into the this ongoing study that DOT has um or the one you already mentioned, but it would take longer. it would take longer and the PPI, the planning partnership initiative. Um so this is when there is a state facility that um municipalities want would like to partner with to look at you know planning exercises to to identify recommendations that would be implemented on state roads. And the nice thing is that when a state road comes up for any sort of treatment, they take elements of those um planning partnership initiatives and implement them. Unfortunately, we just paved High Street, so we were we gonna be a while.

Yeah. But I mean, it probably will be seven years. Yeah. We can't do anything. It's better off to plan it, right? Yeah. I mean, but I'm so glad they didn't put a roundabout from McDonald's because they they've been doing that. cuts down on uh maintenance and all of that and traffic lights and once people get used to the roundabout the the flow is actually better yeah they are improvement

yeah and and there's room for making it uh a man lost the aesthetically pleasing right there I got it wasn't aesthetically pleasing. Today on the Bahav,

a planning partnership initiative would take several months to years to do and fully engineer it to have plans ready to be built. Anyway, so and there's nothing saying that you can't do off system improvements like if we wanted to um fund a um a sidewalk up on Myer Street, we could do that off cycle. That's that's um fine. So, there are pros and considerations for both.

Um, the Iowa Commission, our IRA grant actually covers some planting around Cardbrook on High Street. And, um, I it's not in this year that we were planning on doing it. It was next year. Um, at the end of our grant was the plan to do High Street. So, it sounds like that might we might want to move the trees to a different location. I just want um make sure I want to follow up with you guys on that. So, I'm not planting or we're not planting anything in an area that you know a few years more down the road we would have to move those trees or whatever. Just so you guys, but it it is a little portion of high street there.

Okay. I think the the main DOT public um the sorry planning partnership is probably going to be more expensive than the 20% SS4 match um to get something that's really valuable to us to be able to implement something and it's not um there's not an inind option. It's just like the village partnership initiative um with a scaling match. I don't know exactly how that match works um for the planning but we have a follow-up meeting with main DOT Wednesday or tomorrow Wednesday um to talk about this and because I think what our thought is is that we have a lot of initiatives within DOT right now and we want to pursue the one that's going to get us actually something built

um that we need. So I think that's what we want to do with them. But

so yeah, just hearing more from them will be helpful. And then back to this, unfortunately, we are on quite a time crunch with it if we're going to go for it. The application itself isn't that extensive. You need some letters of support and all that, but it would, you know, it's just more knowing that we have your support council that we know how to engage with the public and explain, you know, why we're moving forward on this. And really it does come back to having this safety plan that then after that we can use it for future applications whether state or federal. So I don't think it's a waste at all. I mean I think it would just further inform what we want to do on high street but you know there is that match and and that doesn't like preclude us then I mean could we still move forward with PPI if we do safe streets for all since that takes longer. I think it's just a matter of what we want to focus our our staff time on immediately. Um, we did put this on the May council, I believe.

We haven't public noticed it yet. I don't think there's any, but I I mean we would public notice it soon like immediately if council wanted to move in this direction based on this workshop and it could be just a placeholder for um additional engagement on high street corridor studies whether that be the the main DOT version or the safe streets for all version. Um we could just have a placeholder for that discussion because we will have more information um in May. Well, we're in May. Had me worried there.

Um, how about this? In two sentences or less, can you describe the difference between safe streets for all versus the PI? I think I got kind of blended for me. So, like why this one versus that one? But maybe that's this one's federal, the other one's state. I mean, both both grants are intense as far as time tracking and all that. The federal is worse. So that's going to be more staff time. On top of that, it is if we're going to do a lot of inind that's, you know, the opportunity cost you mentioned. U this one's more focused in my opinion on safety. Yeah.

And we got a very kind of clear deliverable which is the safety comprehensive safety plan. Um yeah, I would say the other um component is that the safe streets for all was um part of other previous administrations um uh I forget what the bill what that version of you know I 100 years ago it was um so

this is the last year for it and you have to do planning to get implementation funding. Every administration has a safety transportation safety component funding thing. So it may be transferable, but this is the last year. So um the main DOT one it's going to be a little bit more expensive probably but you know your partners are going to support implement implementing this because um even if we applied for a federal grant you know a build grant on high street DOT would essentially have to say yes we want that um out of all the grants in all of the state they would have to say this is our priority so it'd be good to get going in the rowing

could we still park could we still like engage MDOT with the safe street like that process. So it's not necessarily they would be aware and to get feedback knowing that ultimately they have to sign off on it. Absolutely. They are engaged in every safe street for all grant. Um so absolutely I think um their engagement is going to happen either one.

Question on the bottom of this one. It talks about connections with the village partnership initiative for Main Street and other areas in the downtown. Would that also be true of the safe streets for all? I mean, I would think that if we're talking about Main Street, Water Street, High Street, that they're somehow connected in these discussions. I mean, yes, we can we can Yeah, probably. Um, we can define the study area and the scope. Um,

more money though. Yeah, it's just going to be more money and the larger the area, the more watered down I guess your recommendations and and your plans get. If you want like if the goal is to get an engineered set of plans that we can then apply for shovel ready projects, you probably want to have a predefined scope. So what is the scope now of because we talk about high street, but it sounds like it's not the length of it for the current thriving communities. Uh it's from Main Street. Okay. and High Street down to my Okay. So, it's the same stretch, but you're talking about this being maybe a narrow piece. No, it would be the same one. Not not if we included the village partnership part.

I'm just saying to the not to overlap with it, but to at least come up to it so that we have consistency. Yes, that would happen. We just wouldn't go down main water. Yeah, that would that would seem redundant. But I noticed there's a point here. I just wanted to make sure that it would be the same for you in the program. Okay. What do you guys think we should do? I was just going to say we're pushing it back on you. Yeah, it's a hard one, but I do think

it is a hard one because there's pros and cons to both. And um you know, main DOT it's we really have to kind of pull answers out of them sometimes to say what would what's going to align us for success. Um, the other thing is we can apply for the safe streets for all and say we don't want it if we get it. We could always apply for it. And I mean that's not always great to say no thank you for that grant money. But if main do comes back and says, "Oh, we're going to right do this thing for you." I mean, and we could do both. We could segment it and they and they could be just kind of waiting because uh it all depends on the commissioner and

the election. But I have and and you know like I said because that's what happens sometimes you know but you know we are we ought to really think hard about like I said making that whole corridor safe and not just because you're going to go from one spot up and we got that middle section near Oak Street that goes down through. Think about it. We can do all prettiness up there, but you still got crack to get to.

Yeah. You see what I mean? You're like painting the car and then realize you pull the engine out. They wonder why you scratched the heck out of the fenders and the hood. I would also note that main DOT is doing a safety analysis of some sort that they have not released yet

from Brewer to Bar Harbor. Um like by uh by Winkpong where those ballards that's part of that they that was part of that. So um either one of these is going to hopefully dovetail with that effort. Um, so and it could be to Twilight's point looking at a hybrid and doing a section and maybe it's, you know, the the Merrick Street sidewalks. We really focus on that with DOT to get that done and the other section is an SS4A. Um, we could look at it different ways. I don't think either one of us is ready to say which one is the best or

but we know we have to apply for the SS

SSA and it's and I believe it would require a confirmation of match which could happen at the May council meeting if we you know come back and have a copy you know provide a copy of the uh application and just the budget and so you all can see exactly what that looks like and then but yeah we'd have to have council approval My opinion is that we just think it's there's value in it and it would make sense and we don't know the possibility of the other one at this point. We know this is here and we have to make sense to apply or at least bring us what you guys would do in May. Maybe you'll have more information too whatever but I think it makes sense to proceed to this one for otherwise on Wednesday.

Yeah. Again, if DOT says on Wednesday we're not supporting any more safe street for all on our roads, then we know and we won't waste any more time on it. We will pivot and go in a different direction. But um I think the takeaway is that we learned through the thriving communities um process that we need another phase whether that's through main DOT or safe streets for all. We need an additional phase that's going to get us to implementation on some level. So, we've got to continue that.

And to your point earlier about we have those consultants still for a little bit. What's it seems to me that public engagement with MD dot makes the most sense considering what you guys just went through. Um, you know, end of the day, right, DOT has to sign off on this and and then we can let people get mad at MDOT instead of us. Which they were involved the whole time. Yeah. And that's wishful thinking. I think part you know better.

I think part of that engagement is telling that beautiful story that Charlie has been telling about our growth profile here because I don't think we've done a good enough job with our state partners on doing that especially. So um because we're just another four-lane road that they've got to worry about in the state you know. So um telling them our story about what that means to us here is part of that engagement. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Busy toilet. We're all busy. You're leaving without talking restrooms. Oh,

I I didn't see it on the agenda. If you want to just go ahead and keep sure unless everyone needs a restroom break after.

Oh gosh. Just need you're you're too fast for it. I know. I'm zoom. Is it all right?

Okay. So, uh, this is a proposal for the public restroom. I'm going to quickly go through the objectives, which is our, you know, what, who, why, when, how thing. Uh, so we're trying, as you all know, to install install a safe, permanent, climate controlled ADA accessible public restroom in our parking lot here in city halls. Um, and we're trying to provide that as a reliable solution for our residents, visitors, and downtown event attendees. We are doing this because it will support downtown economic vitality and tourism and just provide a practical solution. Um and when would be beginning hopefully this summer and this will also u be done this summer like

well end of summer you'll see in the timeline but if we get approval at this council's meeting to move forward with the budget it could probably be in by August August. Uh and then so how we're going to do this in such a short time frame is to use in-house construction support to reduce cost but also just how quickly it can get done. Um, this is so I just have to laugh at my very rudimentary way of showing things in these meetings, but one of the costs is that the utility pole, which which is in the background, would have to get moved over closer to the garage, and then that would leave room for the 20x 20 restroom to go in where the shed and the pool are. Now, if that makes sense. And the entrance would be facing that handicap space or like more like toward the fire area instead of facing what is it called? What storage?

Yeah.

So hopefully that's clear as far as location. And this is um based on what Brian Moon provided to me that they're thinking uh it would look like. So, it would be two uh ADA accessible and unisex stalls kind of right next to each other with a storage area in the back. Um they would put a mini split up top kind of above the sinks there that would service both sides so it would be completely climate controlled. And that's the layout and then the um budget. So, the first the first and only really full professional quote I got was for 725 and that was a modular that was going to be dropped onto a pad that we would provide and then we'd still have to finish the inside of it. I don't know. Anyway, that was and after that is when I started talking to Mike and then Brian about like can we do this ourselves for much cheaper and it came back that yes we can. So, uh, we have a quote from Handon Lumber that comes up to 2481, 24,81 for the full restroom buildout. That includes all the fixtures, all the finishes of the actual bathroom, but then there's still the cement pad, the water heater and mini split, utilities, that's the plumbing and plumbing and electric that would be brought to the restrooms. And then Versent is saying between five and 10,000 to move the pole actually. So, that's a huge cost, but I just put kind of ballparks that in the middle.

Have you talked to them about naming rights? Change for that cost. Um, but it's kind of really hard to do it at that location. If we don't move the pole, then the where the dumpsters are now would have to take up a few parking spots and it would go back in that corner where the dumpsters are. And it just I don't know that just feel and and then the little shed that Ronnie uses would stay there which needs some TLC and it it just doesn't like I guess we have to ask ourselves is it worth in the lower run 7500 to do this so it looks nicer. Well and there's a safety component too if it's if it's more around the corner it doesn't feel quite as yeah safe.

Is there any concern with the location and the fire trucks? I haven't had an opportunity to see what the overlay looks like from a looking down the sea. Um, my only concern would be, you know, what we always deal with, especially during the summer time, is the amount of foot traffic that would be there. During the summertime, the parklets uh there so our traffic has to go out the church street anyways. Um, so I'm not worried about necessarily the trucks moving in and out, but um, yeah, that would be my only concern is is how much encouragement it does into actually city hall plaza,

the roadway. So I just haven't had a chance to look at it overlay yet. We should just Yeah. go out with you and measure it, I guess. I can Google my op draw drop draw a 20 by 20 on there. That should shouldn't be a big deal. Another question. So, you said you you've got one estimate. Is this something we would want to put out to bid if it's done internally? I don't think we have to. We don't have to if we do it internally. Okay. Just as long as we're we just find the materials um and install it ourselves. Okay. Yeah. As long as we're following policy. That sounds good to me. I think it's great if

if our guys and gals can do it. And Sounds like No. half of what we got, you know, proposing for. So, yeah, as long as it works with fire and all that, I think it's great. And the intent is to have um Ronnie's team add that into their um their rounds for their summertime bathroom rounds, right? Um, you know, we've told PD about just, you know, patrolling the area because that obviously is a concern that it's not going to be used for its intended purpose. But, um, especially. Yeah. Well,

well, it makes sense though with the bus stop here too. That was going to be, if I remember right, that was going to be time locked also, wasn't it? Yes. So that after dusk it's not accessible. If there are events in the parkland that run later we can obviously change that but in general it would be after dusk. Y is it year round? It would be year round but not 247 right but year round. Yep.

And then as far as where the funding would come from in FY27 econ has $30,000. It's currently under professional services. Um, but this would become kind of our, you know, instead of paying a consultant to do all that, since we're doing it in house, that 30 grand would go toward the restrooms. Um, and that is an eligible source of TIFF funds. And that that line item does come from our Beck with Hill TIFF. So, that's all fine to appropriate in that way. And then we would have to pull from the TIFF unallocated 10 grand from there. I originally told Charlie, I said, I think it should come from parks and wreck because it's like kind of he was like, I don't think like that. I said probably not. I wouldn't and I don't know and maybe there maybe there is money for that but but you know if not I think it can come from the tip and allocated and then that rounds out.

It does seem economic development for the downtown. Sure. Yeah. Which car? Yeah. I just have a couple Sorry. No, that's totally okay. My gosh, no problem. Um I just have a couple of questions. Um the first one is um is there a reason why this site has been the spot that's determined and then the other question is have there been other sites sort of thought about um and just I'm just yeah

um in part it was it was just where water and sewer is the easiest to connect to according to public works and then where it would not stand out as much um or take away parking spaces. So right now it doesn't take away any parking spaces and it's really close to water or inhibited snow storage or snow right and snow removal. I mean it's just easy even though it's kind of tucked in there. It's it's easier like it it pretty much just fits where the little shed and pool are now. It's not quite as visible. I understand like it's not over in that corner where the porta potty was.

Well that's okay. um that but I guess I guess what I will say and I know this is another conversation and another project that you know you're working on we're all working on however that turns out um but sort of considering some wayf finding signage I just feel like it's really far from the events and um you know people being able to but obviously a problem because it's not a problem until it's done and then it won't be done till August you said is perhaps a shoot of the idea

I mean I think Um, I think that it would Yeah, it might be better. It would be if it's up top or where it was, but with good signage, I think, you know, I don't know. I'm thinking of like Camden's Camden's um when you get down there. Like, it's right if you don't know where it is. You're walking around a bit before you find it. But it's not so far from any which way. It just is where it is. Like, you just have to learn where it is. And then it's not like it won't be that much further from where the portab was, right? Just needs good signage. Yeah. It's on the I mean it's on the other side a little bit but it's not like I mean my understanding it's on the other side of the parking lot though right it's right here and the porties were or were like down a little bit from it or quite cy

well they were all the way over staircase but that's still yeah I mean it's not quite as close to the downtown yeah we get another hopeful sign good call Sarah to your budget Yeah, but I do. But thank you for clarifying the whole thing about sewer water because obviously I wasn't thinking about that. So, thank you. Um, what do you what um does that mean for those trash uh or those dumpsters? They stay there. Oh, there's room for the Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. If you go back to here like that,

it's so hard to tell from like this picture, but it there is room for it to go there and it would kind of be right right up against it. the back part where the storage is that the guys would get into. The public would not have any reason to go back near the dumpsters. They'd just be going in the front. Okay. Great. Um and then so where we're at now, um I've been holding planning meetings with public works and I've been reporting back at management meetings and then proposing the work plan right now and then we would submit public notice for the 20 May 25th council meeting where we would present the implementation plan, have the public hearing at that time and then if that is approved, we could begin ordering supplies. Brian said with uh uh six he had invoicing terms with everyone so that it doesn't have to get paid till July, but we could begin ordering and construction start in June. Look, you got to get creative around here. I'm trying to get it in before September.

You're preaching to the choir, right? If that if that were all approved then and everything starts rolling in, they could start construction in June. Um and would hope I don't put 46 that's supposed to be 45 to 60 turnaround. Uh, and then we would arrange a ribbon cutting in the heart of Ellsworth for the open date. Say naming rights. Have a ribbon cutting. Well, we want a sandwich first before get one leads to the other. Thank you.

Have a raffle to see who gets the Christian. I mean, I'm more excited about this. We don't have to choose. We're going to manage to like I just can't believe that we're all here and that we made it to this point. Sarah pointed out that I would be here by myself on May 25th. I might be better for you. 18 18 18

But the good thing is these two public hearings were uh submitted in advance of tonight's meeting. So they are at public notices. So they are were good for the and both for the safe streets for all in case that's what you all recommended and for the public restrooms. So any other questions? Good. I want a naming contest for the bath. I want the raft or dunk. I have ideas already. Let's talk about the duck take at the the track fundraiser. Yeah. I heard who's going in it.

Yeah. I don't want to do the bathroom duct tape. That doesn't make that look so bunch of I don't use porta. This is a sailor basket. Yeah. But I've been known to put a bucket in front of them. Step out and talk nice to me. Patrick, do you uh you have a lot of

I think one of the things is that based on that 20 by 20 push it down. Push the dumpers down. dumpsters can't move because cassell comes in has to drive straight to them. So say if you were to push them because of those parking spaces

yeah I mean I'll still do the layout to see what encroachment there is because I have some ideas about this. Oh, you know create some additional which will help some of that. I have a problem. Just out of general discussion, if somebody was to ask you, "Why can't we turn it this way and make it fit like a Lego?" We can't move in dumpsters because Cassell won't have access to Well, that's helpful. Yeah. We're going to start problem solving. Workshop.

This is what it's for. Yeah. No, it's for work. Exactly. Um, great. Well, yeah, this one's less fun than Well, I think it's fun. Um so I have put together uh what you have in front of you is a proposal for rules of procedure for council meetings and then also this is from the main municipal association's um packet on public officials. That's us as a council. And then in the appendix they provide supporting materials about meeting procedures and notice requirements. At the very least I think this is a this MMA packet. There's a lot of good information in there. I think every counselor should when you have time to read it. Um, but the the gist of it in here is talking about how do we conduct our meetings? Um, what are challenges that other municipalities in the state are facing and how can you conduct an orderly meeting as best you can. Um and ultimately the main municipal association um has some proposed um language and and procedures that municipalities follow. They include a few examples um in the packet. Um the one in here is the one that I've looked to give a kind of a basis which is Lewon's rules for participation. Um I trimmed it down. Um there was a lot more in there than I think is necessary, but the way I drafted these rules is that they could always be amended and updated um and added to. But the um but you'll see in the appendex from a municipal association, there are some also some articles from various um like think tanks and organizations. Um one being don't get in back and forth exchanges during public comment. um 50 guide lines for of for public comment.

Um and so managing meetings in challenging times. Um you know, we've had a couple spicy meetings lately and um the these rules are in place, would be in place if we adopted them as a council to one make it clear to the council, but also to the public just how we operate the meetings. Um, since I've been chair, I think I've been pretty close to following what's I've drafted in here. Um, I've based it off of this these guidelines. Um, just in my own practice, but I think it's good it would be good for the council two things. One, for to have a discussion about what, you know, what how do we want to conduct our review? Um and then two, if we feel if there's enough consensus about how we want to do it, I think it makes sense to adopt these rules of procedure. Ultimately, I don't think it will change much. You know, if we adopted these and you know, at the main meeting, June meeting, um you know, my practice of being, you know, chair wouldn't change much because there's a lot in that's more or less how I try to run meetings. But I think again the important thing is is it would provide clarity to everyone about just you know how we go about things. Um the I think some important things to note as as I have drafted and would propose is we'd still use Robert's rules of order for like parliamentarian procedures on motions and amendments and all that. I don't I'm not aware of a better way to do that in that kind of process. This is more about um the kind of the structure of the meeting and how it is conducted less

about the parliamentarian you know motions um but in essence it's um you know again how we've been practicing um counselors would you know speak when recognized by the chair again this is for any chair in the future it's beyond me um but uh again and this is these These are proposals. These are rules that many many municipalities and main practice. This is the kind of these are this isn't something new. Um so as far as you know just giving out guidelines about when um you know when you know counselors speak it also sets up guidelines for public comment. Um the and again this is what I've been um lately there's been people pushing back on you know 3 minutes or when do we have public comment or how frequently um the public comment language in here I didn't I took directly from Louis so this is what you'll see again it's what we've been saying um you know public you know our our monthly meeting public comments are permitted um but there. We're allowed to limit how long they are because ultimately we need to then go do an entire meeting and pass the 20 things on the agenda. If there's a lot, the way it's been drafted is if we would limit public comment at the beginning of the meeting to 18 minutes. In theory, that could give six individuals the opportunity to speak. I took that directly from Moses. I don't know why they picked 18 minutes. I mean, makes makes sense to me, right? five or six people could get up, have three full minutes of public comment. If there were more people that and that that's just for general public comment, that's for comments on city business that are not otherwise on the agenda. If there were

more people that wanted to provide public comment, the rules would say if we wanted to as a council, we could allow for it later in the meeting, allow us to get some work done and then see, you know, if that's still something we want to entertain. Um, and then, uh, it just, you know, it just sets expectations. You know, public comments are not a back and forth. They're not, um, they're to be directed at the chair. The chair is really the only person that should be engaging with the person coming. Just again, it's because it's to keep things moving. Um, but also to make sure everyone has that time to provide their public comment. They're important. We want to hear from the public. Um, but we want it to be respectful. We want it to be orderly. The And then there's just some language in here about different meetings as far as uh you know just kind of making clear our regular meetings are the third Monday or workshops are the first Monday. Um workshops and special meetings and things of that nature. It's really ultimately I would say it's the default is there aren't public comment periods for that but it's at the discretion of the council if they want to allow for public comments that's language again I this is taken directly out of Lewon so I didn't I'm not changing this I'm not adopting this for and you know it's it's right out there and then if you go through so that's so this could be there could be a lot more in here but I figured Um I wanted to start with kind of the basics and then this council and future councils can build on this um as you know as things arise. Oh it should be good to have be better to have clarity on this issue or that issue. Um but I will say I think if you before you know I want to hear from every

counselor their thoughts on it. Um, but before you kind of, you know, make up your mind on what you think about this, I would encourage you to read this packet because there's a lot of helpful information in here. And then, um, but, you know, I would I'm happy to send an electronic copy to everyone. So, if you guys want to look at it and make proposed changes or if you want to write it up and scan it or whatever, I'd like to have it. I think if there's Unless there's reason not to, I think it'd be great to get it on this month's agenda to get it enacted. Um, and then again, it's just it's as much for clarity for the council as it is for the public. And the goal is to run a good quarterly meeting where we get the work done in the city and then we also have, you know, opportunities for public.

Patrick, how's this different from our current rules? We we just have Robert Turles. We adopted something at the beginning. Yeah. Um those are I think this is more like the nuts and bolts about like actual how we're doing things that is more about setting out I think it's kind of broader stuff. I think you want to make sure they speak to each other. Yeah. Um so that's again this isn't a final version and that's definitely something. Um but for the most part I think this is really there might be some overlap but this is um an accept this is more granular on the right the operation of the meeting itself.

Well and I'll I'll say the lines in my time with the legislature it was similar to this that it is you address the chair simply for decorum and so that you avoid the tendency to go into conversation. Um the one thing that sometimes clarifying questions would be helpful like not getting in a dialogue and I don't know how we might um work with that although I think it's been pointed out before following up with emails. People do have other ways to reach us. Yeah. And I said in here like you know leave information with city staff or you know again that's part of you know the

you know there's a balance right? But we need ultimately we need to be able to have an orderly meeting and get this the business of the city done. But we want to have public comment. We want to hear from the public. But the public that's just it's public comment. It's not public discussion. It's not public dialogue.

But that doesn't mean we don't listen and then we don't have staff follow up and then maybe it spurs a workshop. Maybe it spurs an agenda item. Um I also put in here um in the workshop section that you know we could als you know it's kind of be clarifying what we've done in the past like whenever we get to a specific issue like oh we should have a workshop on that right you know like cannabis ordinances or what have you. This is just clarifying like we can call a workshop on a specific issue um and have that workshop be more designed for public discussion, public engagement if we wanted to to kind of you know if if the opport if the you know there you know basically if it's a single topic you know bring folks in and then we can you know have you know invite rather than this workshop right we're just trying to we're working through with staff half and with partners on things whereas you have a different type of workshop where it's on this issue that's

like the the old way like the overlay. Exactly. Because I'm pretty sure you all get the same kind of emails I've been getting. Yeah. And it's like maybe that needs a little more listening and finding what's going to actually work. You know what I mean? There's there's some there some concerns about the overlay. Sure. And I think there's and the nuts and bolts of the ordinance in regards to Yeah. You I'm

Yeah, we had you know we had multiple workshops on the cannabis or you know there's

um but that's you know that type of example. there's you know any number whoever whatever comes up next right you know throughout whatever the thing of the month is but um but again I think it's the goal is to make allow us to have an orderly meeting have everyone has the same understanding and expectations about how the meetings will be conducted um but then making space for public comment and if we think we need special meetings and special issues and topics then we can call them so that was I was trying to find that balance, but I didn't do a lot of I basically just trimmed down else Lewis's and then you know they have a may mayor like an actual mayor that doesn't actually vote and then so they I just had to change you know ours is simpler just we have council chair every counselor's vote is worth the same it's just that the chair is the one overseating the procedures

I didn't know and if the chair isn't available, you know, and I also I relate it back to the city charter because the charter does have some language. Charter is the ultimate document. you can't contravene the charter, but the charter says for a meeting if the chair is not present um prom

pro. So you would base the remaining council votes or who do you want to be chair for this meeting and that's then you take it off and also I'll just note in here you know checks on myself and all future chairs the council can always overturn a chair's decision through a vote if someone wanted to call you know if the chair was up there and says I'm we're ending this or that council has the authority So say I move

um it is like this one um consideration at the end of 2.2 2 3 1 um this is again this is language directly out of Lewis but in consideration necessary if considered necessary of grave disorder the council chair may adjourn or suspend the meeting for specified time such an action may be overruled by the minimum five votes of the council I think there are um well I can't it's in there when you sit down read or it's that the council can vote if it wants to. I think public com

Yeah. One other question on page four number 2.6 workshops. When we talked about workshops adding value, I was stridened in saying they are 6 to 8. We're no longer at 8:00. I think council meetings are going to go as long as they're going to go, but it says right here at 6 p.m. unless otherwise posted. And I don't know if there's value in saying 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. unless otherwise. Yeah. To set that expectation. Yes. Patrick, can I have for some insight?

Oh, yeah. So, coming from where I came from before I got here, um, what part of what he's discussing actually does work. The council chair set the tone for public comment. However, they verbalized every meeting. They verbalized that process. It said this this session is open for public comment. Public comment is not supposed to exceed 3 minutes. Public is to direct all discussion to the council chair. At no point in time will the council respond back to any comments and we'll follow up with emails as well or we'll follow up as needed. So, that's how they did it. That's how they did it and it kept things on task. Setting that expectation,

right? But it was the count it was the council chair's responsibility to set that tone prior to opening up uh public comment so there was no um misunderstanding and the back and forth was was eliminated. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's good to know it's not and that was South Carolina. Yeah. So yeah, I think the you know these the home of Robert's rules of border. There you go. My county was the home of Robert Robertsville, South Carolina. There you go. Straight from the from the source. That's pretty. Oh my.

Yeah. So I I think that just goes to say like this isn't some this isn't like this is pretty standard. we just didn't have this written down and um I'm just I think having it written down and having it as part so every counselor when they start you know they get the packet right and this is one of them and you know that's why again I want I didn't want to make it that long right so you know four four or five pages you read through it um and then yeah as it moves forward the council can always update this amend it but I think it's I wanted to kind of be starting place yeah I asked two questions. Um, is this also intended to extend to like finance committee meetings?

Um, yeah, I think so because I think I had Well, that's a good question because I have workshops, but I think we could we could definitely extend it to committees. We could have it if the council wanted to, it could be adopted for committee. I mean, the finance committee is a little unique because it's all a subset of the council. I mean other committees I I wouldn't want like the rec committee necessarily to have these stringent of rules but it feels like a committee like the the um HR committee the finance committee that is only a subset of the council it feels like it could be there could be a placeholder for that.

Yeah I like that a lot. The only other question I had which um I don't have any feelings about really but it indicates that public comments can only be from elder residents or taxpayers. Y um and I know that Lewon does that as well. Um just I know that we get a lot of people because we're a service center that sometime want to come and address the council that are not necessarily they do business in Ellsworth, they provide a service maybe to Ellsworth but aren't Ellsworth residents or taxpayers. Is that going to be kind of like a case by case say with with permission maybe um because we do want to hear from

Yeah. You know what like in like towns that do a town meeting um typically you can allow non residents or non- taxpayers to speak if there's a vote to allow it. Um but I we could or we could say we could give preference to citizens and taxpayers. Yeah. I I mean I don't I just you know I think we just need to think how we're going to address it if and when that's why I wanted you know want feedback and if if folks in the council want to again I think

it's I'm happy to take any thoughts now but if you guys have the opportunity to read through it if you want to send an email to me and just say just when you get when public hearings like on licensing things like that, you know. Um sometimes sometimes when you when you you've got questions about something, sometimes you have to ask it and then the chair could also make sure that refereeing it because sometimes applicants no matter they get frustrated with the process, they get upset.

Mhm. You know what I mean? But it time, money. Mhm. And some some business owners are like speaking from recent experience. Oh, no. before. Yeah. But if it's if it's during a specific like a permit process, that's a different, you know, like you said, licensing and certain permit certain things, you know, I mean, when you get a public hearing, you want to you want to make the right decision about No, I think it's a good point, Pat. The you know,

you know, the you're the referee, but some of us have to ask the question. Yes. And if we don't if it's not a decent uh try to use they need to use the proper that big the big people language. Yeah. You know what I mean? They don't need to be using diverse gesture. Yeah. Big word. That's that was I have to rest now. Yeah. There was something in here about decorum and polite. Yeah. So that so then like you know NFL rules. Yeah. You got a fivey penalty. Yeah. So what I did there or again a lot of this is just from Louis

um in 2.3.1 on the first page the third paragraph says council may speak only being after being recognized by the chair shall confine remarks to the question or debate direct comments to the chair unless otherwise grant permission avoid all in decor language or reference personalities and that there like in a public hearing pat you know someone's up there and um you know if you know the way I've been practicing it's just you know raise your hand counselor Shay and if you have a question for the you know technically you're supposed to ask me the you know ask the question to me but in those instances

you know asking the questions asking the question it's just then there shouldn't be a dialogue between I just you know you know get recognized I have a question for the applicant and then you can either say go ahead and ask it. Most me going Yeah. No, exactly. Ask the question. I mean, and then I think the expectation is then it's not a dialogue. It's just the question I want the answer.

Thank you. Does anyone else have a question? That kind. That's really what we're going for. Um, and you know, it does put a lot on the chair. That's the role of the chair. You got to So, you know, I guess no one fools enough to do it. You know, it's you know, it's it's that extra effort. it's managing the meeting, but um you know, it's better to have it running through one person than it is to kind of have a freeforall. And there could also be a way of asking the counselors, do you have any questions? You're kind of collecting the questions and then the the person applicant or whatever can then respond to Yeah. the questions so that it's more structured and less likely to go off the rails.

Yes. So, but I think it's Pat does raise a good question is like does that mean you guys should never talk to anyone during a meeting? I mean I think technically that's what this is saying whether you know and do we want to you know follow through with that or do we want to have you know clarification where counselors can at the permission of the chair counselors can ask direct questions during public comment but shall not engage as long as it doesn't get to being a big snowball going along in this and that. That's why it's it's to be safe. If it does get like that, if it does get like that, then you're you know, the chair is the referee.

And it's on all of us to call each other. It's out of control. Yeah. Um the other way I've seen it done is just through the chair, like through the chair, I want to ask and it recognizes that formality. I think that makes sense because then it's just again you're getting to ask the question but it recognizes the formality but you're really getting to ask the question but it also just reminds everyone that's like this isn't like you just get to start talking to them like there's just it's just this is to have an orderly meeting that's really what it's for

and I think too in this um stressing there are other ways to reach out to us reach out to us ahead of time. Um, there is an what the email that goes to all of us is a council at Yeah, I believe so. So, people can write one email and it goes to all of us. I don't actually think that works. I I think Well, no, because it can't go to all of you. It can only only if you have a city email to at the city that doesn't go to all of us and it has to go to all of you blind copy because I thought there was one email. If it goes to all of us, I can look into that. I if it but some of some folks have it set up differently. So, right. And if it goes PCC, that's fine. I understand. I'm not getting into that daily.

Yeah. Well, and that's another thing to think about. We also have like public comments at work. Exactly. information. I like that. So, it's easier than trying to create an email with all that is then, you know, provided to us, but it's not it's but it's designed to cut the back and forth. Oh, yeah. Can I say something? We kind of have that. Um, but it all comes to the clerk's office and then Ebony distributes it to whoever it is for. That's the city hall email. Yeah,

it's the clerk's info. Yeah. So, um if and that's very active and so if something came and they were directing it to a certain counselor, she would forward it on to you. But my point is just making it clear there are other ways to reach out to us. Yeah. Well, and I think it's but to Sue's point and I think it's a good opportunity for us to look at what we have in place and again the goal is we want those public comments those questions coming to the council but then council doesn't turn around and I'm not interested in really getting into a long draw.

Yeah. But then you have it and then at the next meeting or whenever this comes up we're informed about this issue. Maybe you really I want the dialogue with Exactly. But then you have the dialogue with us. Then you say, "Hey, that's a great idea. Hey, you know, chair, I want to have this on the agenda next month for to address um or let's put it for a workshop." And then we can let the people know like, hey, this is so um Okay. Well, this is good. Um this is helpful. So yeah, if you guys have if you want a electronic copy,

yes, I will I'll just email it out this up to these two documents again to the whole council. Um, and then if you want to propose any changes or have any questions, just put them in there, send them back to me, and I'll try to synthesize it and hopefully we'll have it on the agenda for our meeting. No, see, I got to sit down. That's some good easy reading on Lincoln. I like reading. All right. No pictures. So, look at that. I gave you 10 extra minutes. Sarah, you're so generous. Thank you. It's a sippy. Yeah, a sippy. I like that.

Or Kippy. Yeah.

Um before I forget, I wanted to just let um give everyone an update on the ordinance rewrite. Um that's been kind of a fastm moving process with this deadline looming of June. The um fix it bill did get passed. So that pushes that deadline for what was um kind of driving our schedule for the ordinance rewrite to be approved in June. So the planning board is going to take a look at it to um tomorrow. When tomorrow I believe um this week we'll say they're going to take a look at it. So, our goal is to bring this back June 15th for approval, but there is some wiggle room. If um it doesn't if there's you want more time to look at it, you can elect to do that. I will note that um it will be noticed in the proper way ordinance have to be noticed, which are a little bit more in in detail. So, if you table it for some reason in June, um it may it'll cost us a lot more money in time. So, um, just sorry. I'm just kidding. It will cost us more money. But I'll be happy to have an update to have Charlie give an update during the management report in May on if the planning boards found anything that was like a big problem. But again, it is just like clean up. No major.

This is phase one. This is

phase one. Yeah. Yeah. So, I just want to give an update. I promised Danielle I would do it. I probably didn't do it justice. She probably is like, you should have said this. But anyway. All right. Kippy, here we are. Um, let me get my slideshow up. So, um, this was tabled the other evening. Um, as we didn't have a lot, we didn't have we had three counselors that weren't there and, um, our time was we were pushing up against the time limit. though. Um, this Patrick um is going to be your Kippy SIP CIP workbook. Okay. So, in this you're going to have a memo, a cover member outlining um outlining the SIP process, CIP process, the summary of projects, and then individual project sheets, which I'm going to get into what that what that means, what that looks like. Um, but just for orientation, everyone has that. So, um I just want to provide an update on the capital improvement plan. And this is um really been work about being more intentional and long-term in our structure on how we make decisions about investing in elder infrastructure. Did that change? I'm having a twilight issue. Oh, we got to click on the thing.

Um, so the agenda for tonight, I'm just This again was literally the workshop agenda presentation. So, I did not change anything. I just looked at it like at 4:45 tonight. So, um, didn't change anything. Um, I'm going to start with where we're at in the process and then we will talk about um, what we've learned from our assets in our needs assessment and walk through and how we prioritize the projects. I'm going to highlight some near-term recommendations and then um we'll have a discussion on funding strategies and next steps for the council and for staff who's um doing this process. It's just not do it this way. Okay. So, what is the capital improvement plan? So, just to level set, this is a multi-year plan on how we decide about our capital investments. It shifts us from reacting to issues and into a more forward planning ahead strategic vision with datadriven analysis. It also connects projects to funding and long-term community goals. And I would also state that our city charter requires that we have a 10-year capital in investment plan and that we update that plan annually. So this plan is really allowing us to be in compliance with our charter. So where we are at um I've come to you I think once before about um this process. So right now we're right in between this lighter purple and dark purple. We have the draft CIP prioritized projects and we are going to be finalizing it. And as you can imagine as you get out five plus years your projects are really just placeholder. These are things that we know are going to come up that we're going to have to incorporate into our um capital investment plan. So the key step in um the asset condition documentation was understanding the condition of our assets. Uh this includes roads, utilities, facilities, equipment,

rolling stock, anything that has wheels. So that doesn't include just fleet but also trailers. um like we have a portable um a portable compressor, things like that. Um we identified the immediate needs and where more proactive investment will save money long term. So here we have um our uh wastewater infrastructure, our water infrastructure with the rolling stock um of our the wastewater compressor. We have equipment to support um public safety, our roads, our parks and wrecks facilities, um snow plow equipment and road maintenance equipment, our facilities, just our buildings, and then um more parks and w infrastructure with our splash pack. We compiled a full inventory of the city assets. Um what this shows is the scale of what we are managing. Um, you know, we have 90 miles of roads, 37 miles of water manes, 14 miles of station of sanitary sewer, 71 units of rolling stock, and 11 major city facilities. So, that's the magnitude of the things that we're trying to maintain. Um, key takeaways is that delaying investment increases long-term cost. Uh, 2020 was the last time that Ellsworth really had a SIP. Um it was that time that with population growth um we needed an effort to identify and fund implementing projects to continue to maintain infrastructure at low costs and not defer capital improvements so that we could maintain what we have but also grow for the future. So how we did that we um got together all so all the department heads put projects to get they submitted project sheets which I'll go through in a minute not all the project sheets but what the structure of the project sheets

were they everyone submitted project sheets on every project they could could could think of in their departments um and so then we asked them to refine that a little bit um uh put a finer point on that and identify short mid and long-term project. So shore is really like one I'm calling it and and I just want to caveat this with don't get hung up on the years. Those are just like where we're starting. So I mean that's like if we're able to fund this entire capital improvement plan today. This is what we would like to do. These are our our near-term priorities, but the years can shift a little bit. I will say that the estimates we have are probably never going to be less than this. Like these estimates are never going to get cheap. So um so so put a final point on the um need and timeline and then um all the department heads got together the head projects in the capital plan and scored the projects based on the five criteria from our comprehensive plan. That was um the document that we decided to use as our strategic vision for this for this CIP. Um it just was the a lot of work went into that plan. Um it's been adopted by the council. It seemed like a solid place to start. And then we went into even more refinement with the status of the scope. Is it shovel ready? Um is the just does it have support and what's the cost status and if it has you know other funding mechanisms with it. So we um had 220 initial projects. We um narrowed it down to 66 near-term and 66 midterm. We refined those even further to 52 near-term and 49 midterm. And then we refined it even additionally down to

23 year 1 quote unquote projects. 8year 2 and sevenyear three. Again, don't get hung up on the years. Those are just kind of the placeholders for the project. I'm hung up. New laptops for year one. Yes. No, this is a new laptop. It was supposed to be Troy's, too. You forget it. Where's was you say something three times less magically appear.

Yeah, I click my heels together. Um, so this is just another summary of the projects um by category. Um, and I would note that a category that we really need to think um about adding some projects in is the plan and intangible assets. So, this is really where we could put some money in to create shovel ready projects. Um, one of our projects that you'll see is a potential expansion at the city garage. Well, that's going to take a long time to engineer that, plan for that. um that is an area where we could shift some of our projects into that and we should really think about starting kind of a conveyor belt of of projects to get them quote unquote shovel ready or purchase ready. I mean Chief Gilo he I think your um apparatus planning process is a good indication of that is that as soon as you are given the go-ahad you still have a long lead time to plan for purchasing some of these things. So, if we know we need a new, like if we were to do it over again and we knew we needed a a new engine, we might have started that planning process a while ago um to get it ready for prime time. Okay. Again, this is um just another way to communicate and visualize the the projects. The highlighted projects in bold are year one projects. So, um, by facilities, and I'm not going to get into these because we're going to spend more time on the project sheets at subsequent workshops, but this is just to kind of give you an order of magnitude. And I have to give a lot of credit to the department heads because they really looked outside of their departments when prioritizing these projects. And it was a really um, valuable exercise to look at what the city needed as a whole, not just an individual department's um, need. And it required the department heads to to advocate for their projects too to to

kind of really articulate what the need was. So um it was a good exercise in that way as well. So these are the project um information sheets. So each sheet in the each project in the CIP is required to have one of these sheets which um which is all your um near-term projects are all in here. Um it is a project um description, a justification, when was the last time this was replaced you um what is the useful life of this project and then also um um an image and any expenditures that have been to date if you had been planning for it. If you had um received a grant to um do engineering on a project, it would be um communicated through this project sheet. So, so Sarah, these in here is the top priority CIP project.

Yes. So, it's in there in a couple different ways, Patrick. Um, you'll notice the CIP, we like to communicate the same data multiple different ways. Um, but yeah, you're going to have the first two is by priority. So, listed by priority. Then the next um set set of is by department. So, it's not necessarily prioritized. just by um and then the project sheets are behind that. You know the project sheets all of these? Yes. Okay.

They should be all of them. Yes. Um so one that we wanted to highlight that was received um overwhelming support as you can imagine with our local roads and sidewalks. Um it's been a consistent um comment that we get from our the public is the condition of our roads and sidewalks. I think we heard it with the dog park. Why invest in a dog park when your foot roads are falling apart, you know, things like that. So, and we invested in street scan data. So, we wanted to highlight that that this is how they interface. So this is all these roads and these segments are a result of the street scan data work and um what that kind of process looked like what that spit out for what we f felt were was a reasonable set of um roads within that budget for the first year. You will notice the police station parking lot is in there. that was not part of street scan data, but for economies of scale, um it doesn't make any sense to go out and bid the parking lot outside of a local road paving contract. They should be together. Um so that's so um I will just point that out that you could eliminate that out of there if you didn't want to do the the parking lot. Um and then the sidewalks are um they're very specific segments on High Street essentially from Bar Harbor Bank down to Governor's but right where the sidewalk exit Governor's um that would be the year one sidewalk plan. The year two sidewalk plan would be the top eight kind of up on Main Street and then there's another section up um I think it's McKenzie in Beal on Upper Main. So those are the most critical and I would note with sidewalks these are our existing sidewalks that they evaluated. They didn't evaluate gaps. So that could be a next phase is that we actually go out and evaluate gaps like my street um

is a big gap in sidewalks. So um I I just have to ask a question. The police excuse me the police um parking is there any opportunity for cost share now with the owner of the property? We can ask. I think they've said no. I think last year they said no. Um but and what about other tenants? There's another I think the sign has several

Yeah, I think the area is really only for the police station. Um it's not part of any other facility. It's really at the police station. And I think the the thought with the no is that our this parking lot is going to have to probably be paid maybe one more time in the in our police term. Um but we can certainly approach them and ask. Yeah, maybe we might want to go find another place. That is not in the CIP, but um could be next year. That ship has sailed several years ago. Um so, oh sorry. Oh, I have people break leases all the time.

Um this is a little I'm just going to break down the funding strategy as part of the framework for the larger projects. Um, we wanted to have additional project expenditures that could be broken out like design, rightway, um, utilities, contingency, construction, you know, projects that are just oneoff that is just a direct purchase of something, you're not going to see that additional breakout. But these are for the larger projects. So, we wanted to give space for some of those larger multi-phase projects. And then um I will say that I think one of the weaknesses of our CIP is that um we have a lot of considerations to work on as far as funding strategies. We have historically utilized um a single funding source essentially which is um bonding and debt. We have an incredibly low debt um debt um we're carrying an incredibly low amount of debt for a municipality of our size with our tax structure which gives us a lot of opportunity but the consultants having experience across the country were a little bit like we don't really have reserve we don't um do a lot of we don't have any fees or things like that so there is a lot of opportunity to look at how we on these things which I think is going to be um the mission of this group over the next three six months as we hopefully dovetail this into the budget cycle next year

because money drives the root of all evil. It's nice to be able to secure good funding, you know. I mean, obviously it's okay to bond, but sooner or later the the dog's going to come home and you're going to have to pay for it. And so, yeah, we need to have some sort of reserve to cover that. And some departments have been really good at that. I would say our our um uh enterprise accounts have been really good at reserve but um you know they they operate a little differently as far as their structure. So

um some future funding considerations is the reserve and you know being intentional about setting aside money. We Yeah. Sorry. So are you thinking of reserve almost as like part of the SIP plan like in part of investing in our infrastructure and investing in our financial to this is reserved towards a specific pro towards specific projects. Okay. So maybe even being intentional about saying we want to start a reserve for this year three project. Um and then it would like go on this like oh we're starting Yeah. sidewalk maintenance, compact, utility, tractor, purchase, reserve.

Very important thing. Yes. Um, so, but it also could be it could be twofold because it also could be because that's kind of like the pay as you go, but it also could just be a reserve account for it just CIP reserve and then there's a process for selecting what we're going to fund out of that once we look at our total, you know, FY whatever CIP. um

their debt service policy um you know set clear targets on how much the CIP will be because as you've seen well in my two years kind of in this budget well year and a half you know we have someone comes to the council with a request for a capital investment but you don't have necessarily the full picture of what else is needed. You know, like last year it was the tanker and the track, but we didn't know the full

suite of the need. I'm super happy we got those things off our capital um capital improvement plan. Um but wouldn't you would that have been the same decision if you had known the full picture? So um it's really important to know that. And then um I think it also this plan has also highlighted just the importance of having a strong finance team which we have and we're working on. But that I think was a constant um kind of theme throughout this is that having a really strong finance director that is tuned into all of this that can plug and play with things and shift things around um is going to be enormous for us to start ticking off some of these. Um so considerations is just acknowledge and affirm the methodology and framework. Again, it's really about a process that we've set up. This is while this is a one-year snapshot, it's going to be a living process, a living plan. Um, review and provide feedbacks on these capital project priorities. We fully understand that while staff has put a lot of time in prioritizing these, this is the first time you've seen them. You probably are going to have a lot of questions about them. Um, you're going to want to get into maybe some of the details about why is that a priority over another thing. um provide direction on funding strategies and the financial policies and then um finally we're like confirm the five and 10 year plan at the outset when we're done with that. This was really the most uh this is really the meat and the heart of it um right now and the process was really the big points. So for us next steps um you know continue to get feedback from you all develop the the tenure project list um and we are going to be developing story maps that will be on our website and

public facing so folks can click on understand what the funding um structures what what's being proposed what's being asked things like that um one this is great I'm really impressed this clear a lot of work going into it. What program is it that did you make this in? Uh, it's Excel. It's Excel. Yeah, the consultant made it, but it I believe it is Excel. Okay. Well, it's just it's I like how it's set up. I like the, you know, it's like got the framework for it, but then you say

it is. And I like the pictures like, oh, I saw popups. Yeah. picture. I would also um know that there are um less than a handful of projects that were originally proposed through the general budget and we intentionally moved those to the CIP. So, it's going to be really important when council is thinking about funding um that while they may be not top prioritized again, that's why we move them because it's different when it's coming to you through one department's budget versus an entire CIP plan.

But for example, the switches for it for our system, those really have to get we've got to prioritize those. And I think they are number one. And then I think um Chief Gillo had both the tanker 4 which was a last year's discussion but we we dep prioritized it for the engine and the rescue boat. Like we actually don't have a boat that floats to go out and rescue people on or to um if we have to do any sort of um approach from water to fight a fire, a boat fire or whatever, we have no vessel. So that's we would have to borrow someone borrow try to get one here from a neighboring town.

Zodiac didn't pan out. Well, we actually got quite a bit of time on it. It's just it's end of life. It's no longer seaorthy and it's been evaluated and taken out of service. I don't really I don't think Zodiacs last very long. They last longer than rubber. It's a It's a 30-y old boat. It's served its life. Yeah, I mean I got one last run out of it when we grabbed the plane out of the water. Mhm.

So I think it would be helpful from um our perspective if our I'm speaking for the the CIP group if we maybe either dedicate like a a large chunk of time at a workshop or have a specific CIP workshop where department heads can come and answer questions with council um about the projects so that we can start moving some of these along because I understand that I had this like very Polyiana vision that I was gonna present this plan and it was gonna be like we will fund the top five projects and that's not how it's going to go. But I get it because that's it. That's that's not how it can go. So, but I would like to I really think it's important to keep the conversation moving and start ticking these projects off. I think um either having a focused workshop makes a lot of sense

and I I think what it's helpful for me is being able to look at these in the context of both the the one five or 10 year like here's the focus here are the priorities but let's just remind the council like here's here's the plan right here's the other things have been identified but these are the ones we've brought to the four, you know, and then um I guess putting into context of the budget, right? If we're going to this should be something we do, the council should do every year, right? Like we're going to have our CIP workshop every year at a certain time. This year, the CIP, you know, done there's almost like a it's similar to the budget process, right?

It's like a catchup. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like okay on such and such date of the year we do the workshop and such and such date you know and then it's like because I guess the question I have is moving forward is the the the hope that we have the CIP focus so it ties into the budget process then when we vote for next year's budget we you know we've identified year one priorities we picked which ones are getting paid you know done and then when That's done. You go back to the plan and go, okay, they approved these, but they didn't approve that, but then they brought that one forward or something new came up.

Something new came up and now we recalibrate the plan and then it's ready to go for the next year. So if that's So I don't know. That's just how my brain thinks about it. Um, but like are these for so for these projects are we going to be look are are any of these in the budget for FY27? So these are all FY28 29 or off cycle. Or off cycle. Yes. Or it could be, you know, an offcycle band on. Okay. So, and so if there's anything that's like pressing, we we go off cycle ban bond potentially if the council agrees. Yes.

But otherwise, this is getting us ready. So when we hit the ground, council hits running for FY28, right? approved in FY27. Yes. My hopes would be in FY28. is exactly what you said that the processes dovetail together and when you approve in June whatever that you're approving your general fund budget and your CIP budget at the same time like whatever your package is for that year

and I think for FY28 this is another maybe Pauliana but hope I'm very hopeful some some additional funding strategies like start that reserve start you know those things but also this helps us to, you know, Twilio's presentation on SS4A mid-year grants. If we have a priority prioritized list and there's a grant that comes in that says all of a sudden we're going to give you, you know, a million dollars for highway GR expansion planning. You know, we can say we have a project that's prioritized and fits right into that perfectly.

And that's the reason to have reserve. We've already set aside that money. And if I might, yeah, I'm a man, but typically men don't plan a lot. But I something I learned in the military and being in engineers, you always keep planning. Okay. So you you take this and you just keep Yeah. going on and on and on. So there's no stop like you ran into it. Yeah. Well, I think that's what that's why

just keep going along and it those this three and five turn eight we get 10 and then 15 and it then when councils change it's like this is you guys want to change something in here then or people like me change and I think that's No, you're not going in.

No, I'm not. That's not in the living. Right. Because I mean when I came in and and it was like here you have to do the CIP. It literally was I think like your first budget just pieces of paper with no real justification or numbers. So it and it also helps staff know what the expectation is when doing a project or requesting project. So I know that was a lot of a lot and we're past the time. So thank you. But I will work work on scheduling of CIP specifically. This is a great intro and like setting the stage for there's a lot of hard work on

and department heads did bulk of it. So thank you department heads. Was there any crying? Um there was some pouting but not no tears at not in the meeting.