Parks and Recreation Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay.

Welcome, everybody. I'll call us to order. We're just not quite a minute after 3 o'clock. I have to look and see what date it is. September 4th. And welcome, everybody. We're going to get started with our Pledge of Allegiance. Please go ahead and stand. Pledge of Allegiance. To the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, It's good to see everybody again. We have a couple of individuals today that I think are joining, but we'll just join a little bit late. So we'll welcome them when they arrive. Yes, we should embarrass them as soon as they come in. Please do so. Okay, so let's move then into adoption of the agenda and approval of our consent calendar. And the consent calendar includes this time the minutes from our last meeting. which I know I reviewed looked pretty good, but I'll wait for a motion on that. I'll just note it does not include any review of artifacts, although that has been taking place. And it's just with a timing thing. And I'll take blame for that because I thought I was getting that in on time, but I didn't get it in on time. So my apology for that. Otherwise, we would have been reviewing that. So we'll just have a set of items to review in our next meeting or as part of our consent calendar for our next meeting. So item 261464, do we have a motion to approve the minutes from the previous commission meeting from August the 7th?

I'll make a motion.

Michael Leclerc- He's going to be on a second. Michael Leclerc- Okay, wonderful. All in favor. Michael Leclerc- All right, any opposed. Michael Leclerc- Okay, excellent. Michael Leclerc- And let's see, I mean, we've got that the consent calendar and we'll move into report from staff 2614 65 directly level. Thank you.

Michael Leclerc- Library director crystal. Could you bring up the Oh, you already have a perfect training. So the first item that I have to discuss. We have some new museum and railroad bookmarks. So there's two different ones, and so four different images in total, front and back. Could you, let's see, I guess since we have them in the room, all the commissioners are able to experience them. For anybody watching in the future, They're contained within one of the attachments. And these are more classic bookmarks. They just have photos from our historical photo database and then the museum and the railroad branding. So they're more conversation pieces to be used at outreach and other events and also for the public to enjoy. But they're more traditional and classic. So thank you to Abby, one of our library assistants for creating these Yeah, it's exciting to have a One of our newer deliverables so as we continue to update our brochures and packets and other items. This is one of the first steps Crystal Back to your report. Yes, okay the great train robbery whodunit I So the El Dorado Western Railroad has switched it up again and they continue to be very creative with their programming. So this is a recent program that the department approved. So it has, of course, a mystery element and who done it? It's on the 5th and 12th of September. And this flyer, one of our librarians, Annie at the South Lake Tahoe Library, created this for us. But we're continuing to roll out all sorts of different types of programming for the railroad. And I think this one might be sold out. Of course, all of our events sell out. It's just a question of how soon they sell out. The shorter report today, so we only have four items. The third item is Placerville Union Cemetery. There's a fountain there. And it could be that folks in this room are familiar with this. My understanding, the fountain was stolen some time ago. So with the county structure, facilities takes care of various elements at the cemeteries throughout the county. Not all of them, some of them. are the responsibility of the city of Placerville and other entities, but there's a fair amount that they oversee as far as landscaping and some of the related activities. But they reached out mentioning this and they were curious if the department had any thoughts on something else that might be able to be put there. So I wanted to mention it to the commission so that everyone could start brainstorming. What's that, Kelly? Oh. Start, or just for their awareness, but also if we want to put this on the agenda, or likely we'll put this on the agenda for next time to have a more formal discussion of possibilities for this space, potentially through a historical scope. And I want to say that maybe this fountain was stolen a decade ago. I'm not sure. I don't know if anyone is aware of that.

Someone had mentioned, and this is what I thought today might be about, actually, and I was excited. I had someone mention, oh, I've got that in my backyard. It was lying on its side at some Save the Graves event. I was telling Commissioner Rigoli, someone mentioned something, and I was like, wait, what? And I was trying to connect them with Mike Roberts from Save the Graves. And I thought that someone had come in and told you and or Kelly, I have this fountain. I want to donate it. But that's, and I was so excited for this part of the meeting.

That's, well, and, you know, with information spreading throughout the community and word of mouth, maybe the fountain is living in the backyard somewhere. So, Maybe during Save the Graves, we have a picture of this, and it just says something. Do you know where this is? Have you seen me? Yeah. Yeah. Like Lionel Richie. You know, please return. Yeah. You know.

Or a stamp mill.

We can chat about that all day.

Is there a picture of it?

There is. In your collection. I have it on my computer. It's beautiful. Your desktop wallpaper.

Well, I was looking at it last night. So, so excited. I thought you might have pictures of someone who reached out and what it looks like. So I think this could be an opportunity, especially with Save the Graves coming up. Maybe we do an entire, I'm one of the volunteers who helps create content, you know, history, you know, vignettes, historical vignettes for the program for Save the Graves. So I think if, if the museum and library are interested, maybe we can put together something, a call-out, actually.

I think that's a great idea. I think we can also promote the photo database.

That's right. But who knows? We could do some interesting things with that.

And I was excited when facilities reached out to the library department because something like this, bringing it to the commission, but then Also the historical society and as Sean mentioned with Save the Graves coming up. So it'd be great to highlight this and who knows, maybe we'll be reunited in the space.

You never know. Or, you know, Save the Graves has some really, really gifted blacksmiths who do pro bono projects in the cemetery, restoration projects. From building the framework that holds up the old monument. Hi everyone. Sorry, I apologize for being late. It's good to see everybody.

We were ignoring you, Sean, because you were being late.

No, Sean was late. And I wondered, especially if somebody does have pieces of the original, but even if they didn't have that photograph of what it looked like, wouldn't it be neat to restore it? That could certainly be a project that Save the Graves could take on. if it doesn't exist somewhere else. It could be restored either way or just refabricated as a reproduction.

So where actually is this picture with the buildings and stuff? Where is it?

That's the Bullion Cemetery right at the top of the hill as you kind of crest into the cemetery. Keep going out turn left and there you'll see the mausoleum, this mausoleum at least right over there. It was not to denigrate the mausoleum itself, but boy, the pictures that Sean is referencing, for example, are from a time before the mausoleum existed, and it was so pretty. But, you know, that's kind of how cemeteries sometimes evolve, and I don't have anything against that, per se. They did have that beautiful fountain, and it was elegant. Really, really pretty.

It was there in the 19...

50s when or 60s when the mausoleum was built so here's one picture from the county's collection from the county museum's collection right when the mausoleum was freshly built and of course this was only done and we look at that and say oh my gosh what were they thinking but it was done because they were desperate for revenue streams to meet in the cemetery.

You guys here for the Commission meeting for the historical society or the store museum.

Yes, for us.

Come on. I don't know where to sit.

You see, we're so excited to be They want to thank you so much.

Seriously. So it's my job.

There's very few photos of the cemeteries in general in the 19th century. We can pass that on.

I wonder if it's a Mountain Democrat. We're talking about a hoop wall.

There's a lot of cemeteries that were fortunately stolen some time ago. But this is an original.

Probably some high school kid on a project. Yeah.

I've seen the base of it.

I'm not sure if that's that. I don't think that's the original base. But if you look at this later picture, you see this is certainly the base we're all looking at now. Yeah. The original looked like that. Now, that could just be the angle, and we're not quite seeing it.

It could be the same.

Yeah. Who knows? But anyways, this is fun.

I completely agree. And I don't know if there's a possibility to ever have a water element again. I think there's multiple challenges to that. But as first steps in bringing more awareness to this, I agree it's exciting.

So actually, how big is it? I mean, it's huge for someone to steal.

It's relatively large. It would take me five full steps to cross that distance. Really? Yeah.

I've never felt like it was that hard. It's shorter than you are.

Yeah, I'm shorter. But the point being the fountain proper, the part that's missing, you know, the tiered portion, you know, that's, it's iron and they usually, there's couplings and, you know, you build it up. So I imagine, you know, it can be disassembled and it's not that heavy.

Okay, we pause for a quick second. Since administration mind if we pause and welcome them. We're so glad to have members of the public, new members of the public.

I don't count here. Not today.

Join us today. Do you mind introducing yourselves for a minute? I'll say first, my name is Jacob Rigoli. I'm the chair of the Commission for the Historical Museum. And we'll go around and introduce ourselves after yourselves.

I'm Haley, and like, I got a bridge.

I'm Elena, and I'm a senior at Oak Ridge High School.

Okay, both Oak Ridge and Elena? Is that right?

Yeah.

Okay. And so you said it's a class project that you're here for, or can you tell us more about that? Okay, fantastic. Any outcomes that they're looking for specifically so that we can make sure you get what you need also from this? Or no, it's just... Yeah, okay. Or it's just you're here, and then you'll do a report or something?

Yeah, like a three-page essay.

Three pages. We got to give you some content. Oh my goodness. And the good thing is these are filmed live. So that little screen you see in the right-hand corner, so you can go back online to the county website and watch this for your assignment when you're writing your report.

If you write down every word, you've probably got a page.

And is the broader context of the report sort of just about civic engagement, or is it more narrowly focused on history, for example, or something else, if you know?

Yeah, civic engagement. Just like participating in society.

Oh, very good. Okay, fantastic. Well, this is a perfect spot to do that for sure. You've got an intersection here of government itself, right, for the county specifically, and then individuals who are part of a commission which serves at the pleasure of the Board of Supervisors for the county, but they're individuals who are deeply involved in various aspects of our community. We happen to be mostly involved in history-related preservation, promotion of really many things, certainly history itself, but also culture within the county. So great thing to observe because it's sort of a public voice and the county administration kind of coming together and working towards a common purpose there. Do we want to go around to quick introductions really fast? I know it's off topic a little bit, but if you guys are okay, just so that they've got it for their report.

We are very excited to have visitors. My name is Bryce. I am the library director. I also oversee the historical museum and the El Dorado Western Railroad because the railroad is a living history program. And those bookmarks have some historical photos on them and we have a database.

And you're here for the premiere. So you're the first civilians.

I think so.

I think we can use that. Yeah. Numbers of the public have received these bookmarks.

They're collector items.

Hold on to them.

Find the typo.

John Manwaring, commission member.

Dee Owens, I'm the commission member. The Historical Society and the Trails Association.

I'm Kelly Jordan, library and museum employee. I'm Crystal Owens and I'm a library employee.

You know him. Randy Mitchell, I'm the assistant chair and history has been really important to everybody here. Almost everybody is on at least one other committee or commission or event kind of thing. So this is It's not just the one thing we do.

No. Jeanette Beard, Commissioner, CAR, Doctors of American Abolition, Colonial Bank, and the CAR of Children of American Abolition.

I'm Dariana. I'm her daughter. And I'm usually the only public member here. But I'm also part of all those things that she's a part of. Oh, and I've been volunteering with the railroad.

We're glad to have you here. So we're going to jump back into our agenda unless you have any questions before we do. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. So back to Director Lavelle then, because we were talking about the fountain here. Is it okay if I actually interject with one quick clarification to pull you back into the cemetery conversation? Sure. So did you say earlier the county administration had come? Who was the request originating from to contemplate this space? And was there any guidance related to that insofar as, you know, kind of a hope for a certain outcome?

So the facilities department, so part of the county of Colorado, somebody from that department reached out to bring this to my attention. It's from the museum scope. They were curious if there was an artifact or a cultural item that I was aware of that they would be appropriate to put there. But with facilities in their role and in the library department, so now that we have that communication channel in place, then we'll work more closely together when there's topics like this that come up that I can bring into commission. attention. Of course, there's so many wonderful groups that need to be aware of this. So who knows, maybe the stars will align and the original Falcon will come back. I don't know. I hope so.

Is there anything else on that topic that you wanted to cover?

No.

And then did you already talk about logo branding kind of as a part of the bookmarks or?

No, this is separate. This is a separate piece. This is the last piece, or the last item in my report. So if you go to, or Crystal, sorry, that last. So as you'll remember, we were highlighted with, was it Friends of the California Archives, the historical photo database, and with being

kind of mid-process with a logo and branding element.

And then working with their deadlines, we just used the text and the colors, and they highlighted us through their website. And of course, some of the other colors that they used, kind of like a cream-ish lighter color. As we've been working with this, it works very well. And so the department plans to continue to implement this branding. I mean, previously we explored different icons and abstract elements and looking at our mission and vision statement, so it guided us that way. And so continuing to move forward, we find that this works very well. So the department is planning on using this for the official logo and branding. And you see it in use printed in real life on the bookmarks. There is an artistic choice, an element below the branding piece on these specific bookmarks. But that's not something that was part of the official logo. So I wanted to mention this and see if there's any thoughts around it. Again, it's part of my report. So shorter conversation and comments are warranted. And if that leads to certain things, I'm always happy to put it on the agenda. Department's intent is to continue using or adopting this as our official rank.

I think it makes much more sense because we were all slightly confused by the wagon wheel. This says, there it is. There's no question, no doubt.

it's simple it's clean it presents really well i like it yeah it looks good is this a mountain range is that what this is that was um i think that's just a transitional piece that uh abby had put in there um just kind of a artistic discretion but in the future uh that isn't something that you see everywhere it's not part of p

official and to make sure a decent transition.

Other comments from the commissioners? How do you guys feel about it? Randy shared.

Look how much less discussion this guy and the wagon wheel.

And not all

Progress is linear, but it was, I think, an important pit stop for us as we continue to reflect on the mission and the vision statement and what's needed as far as branding and imagery. And this is also, as Brandy mentioned, it's potentially the straightest line to communicate what we are and then Visually, as we create bookmarks and other items, it lets the photo elements shine as likely timeless as you can be. It is unique in the colors and the stacking. It's also unique in that it's a

And our role as commissioner is one of the things that we intend to do and feel strongly about too is, you know, helping to support the work of the museum, the administration, especially towards having at minimum like a good strong brand identity that we can take out there and be recognized for. And so, you know, I want to you frankly don't have to get any approval from the commission for any of those changes. And we recognize that. We sure do appreciate, though, that it's being brought forward for just reflection and comment. So I'd love to hear from each of the commissioners, just if you feel good about this. If you don't, I mean, that should be something that you feel comfortable saying as well. Maybe we'll just go around, if that's okay, real fast. Commissioner Manwaring was kind of

why starting with me? I love this. I love how clean and simple it is and that you can incorporate historical or archival images from the collections of the county museum easily with this. And I love the U of Tocantin here. It makes me so happy. I can't even tell. I looked at Kelly and I'm like, So I love these. I think they're beautiful, and I really like how you've incorporated the railroad right onto the back. It's seamless. This is great, and it's actually going to have people go, wait, what? This is part of the county museum, so it's good.

Right, and I'm unsure if you're here for the first part, but they are intentionally minimal, traditional. There's no QR codes, URLs. They're conversation. They're... They highlight... historical photo collection. So we're very happy that Abby did reach out. And she selected the photos.

Beautiful. I mean, this is a very well-recognized and beloved photo to post.

And two, as she was looking through some of the collection, then she inquired if she could create more than one bookmark. Because, of course, we have 1,000. 1,000 is a great book.

Hey, Abby. We know you'll watch this later. Nice work. It really is.

Well, the clean idea, I like that.

Simple.

I like it.

I feel that way, too, for my part. I really do think this presents well. And it's so easy to use. And it never prevents us from coming back in the future. Rebranding is sometimes needed. It may be a long way off. But I did like that original wagon wheel. But I do think this is the right direction to go. This is better.

It is. And it is better. Yeah, it is.

Well, I liked how you actually brought it all together, different parts, like the and then the Asian person in here. And I think it really went good. Are there going to be others, maybe?

Yes, this is somewhat a, I wouldn't say trial run, but seeing the quality of these, I think there's potential for the future to make ones that are even a little bit larger, utilizing different photos, using, I mean, these are matte. You can experiment with glossy. I think these are great. emotional piece. Kelly and I are very excited about having these during the same graves. It's been a while since we've had up-to-date deliverables that feature the museum and the rental.

It's a great idea to put them on sets like Pokemon. Collect them all. And also using a full set of museum bookmarks.

Exactly. Using this format, seeing it in print, seeing it online, it just feels appropriate. There's a crispness to it when you pair it with other things. And again, looking at our mission and our vision statement, this pops us even a little bit further ahead Ashley recognized, you know, we don't need a symbol at all. Even an abstract one, we can go further than that. So it makes a lot of sense.

Like them all. Like I didn't collect them all. Yeah.

Or any number. All right. Let's come back then. And just to reflect our does the commission have any questions either on bookmarks on the great train robbery? Who done it? on plasterville union cemetery or on logo branding or any other topic for administration at this time not hearing any then i'm going to open it up to the public and let me since the first time we're opening public let me read the statement that i am to read at that moment uh i have it in front of me this is the legal i can summarize it i don't i don't have that number it's um you do all right don't worry about it so basically we just limit uh public comment we open it up for a comment on the topic that's being addressed um and in addressing that uh topic we give it would speak about what the topic that was just addressed And there is also an open forum at the very end of the meeting where other items can come up at that time. But for now, this will be just about this item. So I usually turn in the room to the room first and just ask if anybody from the public today has any comments on this on these items. And then I'll turn to the online which still shows this blanket. We're not depressed about that, though. and see that. So any comments from the public at this time?

This is where you get extra credit.

I'll also say something. I do like the logos are really nice and I like how you kind of streamlined it because if you're coming from outside and you're like, why is there a pizza slice on this? You're like, what is this? What's going on? But I also really enjoy how like The railroad has, you know, obviously railroad stuff. You kind of see that. And then you just get the museum just streamlined right there. So I think that's really nice to look at. That was all my comment.

Thank you. Well, in a brief history with the railroad medallion, so you didn't want to do a full refresh of that because it's gone so much or hurts. It's on locomotives, and it would be very cost prohibitive. But we did simplify it, and then it changed to green. And the green complements the burgundy in the museum logo, which complements the blue for the library logo. So as a trio, it all goes together. They complement each other on flyers. So that's exciting to some of us.

It really works. Questions or comments from anybody from the public? No obligations, but civic participation.

From the public? Is it going to be free, or are you guys going to charge money? Great question.

So with riding the train, there's a fee. With visiting the museum, there's no fee. And then with all of our library applications, There's no cash being in the space or borrowing any items from our collection. It's a good question because the railroad does charge for rides on the train.

And did you mean for the bookmark? Like, are we selling the bookmark?

We'll both, I guess. Oh, bookmarks are, there's no charge. We've already put them out of the library.

And then, because I do have to take notes of Can you give me your first initial, last name? Elena, oh wait, A, and then Mac, M-A-C-K. Thank you.

Any additional comments or questions at this time? Let us know. Jerry?

Gee, Mitchell. I'm glad to see you while I was gone. You've been working really hard. These are lovely. These are great. Good job. Thank you. All right.

Thank you. Well, we hope that the admin ... Oh, let me check online. Nobody. Okay. Not seeing anybody online. We will close out a report from staff, 26-14-65, and we'll move ahead in our agenda to discussion and action items. There's one item for discussion today, which is 26-14-66, an update regarding the Bergstrom organ. And I'll provide that very brief updates and then we can open up for any questions or conversation. This staying on our agenda in part does a carry over from quite really arguably decades, I guess. The beautiful historic Berkshire Morgan, which is currently sitting in the organ room right outside of where the historical museum is located, is you know, still part of conversations among multiple different entities as to what should happen to it and what could happen to it, right? Including its refurbishment. And so in advancing, skipping over all of those details, I'll just say, catching up to now the present, the Fair Association Board most recently reached out to our contacts that we had established in Benicia with the Schoenstein Workshop for Organs, which is led by Jack Cathart's And Jack sent up an expert to El Dorado County earlier this week who was spent really a full day. I met him at the Oregon room that morning at about 8 a.m. a couple days ago. Made sure he got access and our thanks to the fair board for having everything open and ready. He went in, spent a full day, didn't leave until they closed at 5 p.m., right? So he was there that entire time and just, I think, in heaven. For him, that's kind of his thing. So we did hear from him yesterday that he has completed his report, which is to say it's mostly informational, to give to Jack and that now Jack will do a more formal report, right? Because he's truly the owner and the expert on this. So that report will go to the Fair Association Board since they commissioned it. We hope we will get a copy of that as that comes through as well. And that report would contain presumably a realistic scope of work required to accomplish maybe like a good, better, and best. I don't know that he's actually laying it out that way, to be clear. But a range of potential possibilities for refurbishing that work and getting it back into a state good in my mind but just my mind i'm not saying that this is formal but is that the exterior of the organ it has been bumped and dinged and you know missing some medallions and things like that from uh from these last several decades and you know those are all very repairable oh quick interesting side note the uh gentleman who was here doing the observation said he's he's He thinks that the side panels of that organ are made out of redwood, which makes perfect sense. 1800s at that time, the late 1800s, that would have been sourced, obviously, locally, relatively locally. The front portion of the organ, the front facade, is made out of Dominican Republic mahogany. And he said that is incredibly rare and it really speaks to the quality of the organ and how unique it is. And he's is encouraging. He will, I think, encourage maybe it'll be the report or not. But he did say generally that that struck him as being noteworthy and that it would be wonderful to see if nothing else, which is to say, if not the interior of the organ fully refurbished. Yeah, that it would be that maybe the exterior could be done, that that would clean up beautifully. So, you know, somebody in the past really stained it dark. He said, you can't tell how beautiful that would be if you were to strip it. There's no issue with stripping it. It's not, you know, somebody already, you know, had done that work, you know, probably in the 1960s when it was moved to its current location. So anyway, that report will inform the Fair Association Board and all of, and several other organizations insofar as cost. And then hopefully that will result then in the groups, which is mostly historical society, as well as the Fair Association Board, coming back together to talk then at that point and hopefully advancing a path forward for some positive outcome for the organ from there. That's my hope, at least. So that's my report on that. And I'll look at the commissioners and administration next if there may be any questions on that.

I think I'll just help our guests. Have you seen that organ at the fairgrounds?

No. Have you gone to the fairs? Yeah. You didn't see that. You're going to have to go in there.

It's in the little building next to the really big one that you go in and see all the stuff in. I want to cross from that. But it was in a church here, and it's a very rare organ. You see it's big. It's huge. And we're hoping to be able to preserve it. That's what this is all about. It will not be cheap. So that makes this a very interesting...

And I'll extend that too and say, and it belongs to the people of El Dorado County and the people of El Dorado County, I think, you know, would want to see this, would want to see its representatives and its government, you know, sort of protecting these types of assets. And that, in fact, is what's happening, right? I think people are getting together to try to talk about that. There may be some intersection there with, you know, sort of the unfair, but a need to ensure that the space of the fairgrounds is being, that it's, you know, giving a return on the investment that the fairgrounds should be getting for its assets, which is to say the space the organ is in is taking up a lot of space. You know, maybe that reduces the dollar per square foot that you might hope to get for renting that space out. And we understand that. But we hope that there's some acknowledgement of positive externalities, which is to say that there is greater public benefit than the dollar value for some things. And those things are sometimes just having a space where you have your history on display and that you might even be able to market, frankly, if you turn this around. So that's sort of the perspective that we have at the moment. Any other questions from the commissioners at the moment? Administration?

I think that's fascinating that the wood is rare. I mean, all the wood used, of course, has its own history and rarity. But in particular, with the front pieces.

Yeah, the presentation layer, if you will.

Where they, so to speak, were clearly imported during a time where, well, it's fascinating. It'd be lovely to extend the museum to that building and utilize that space solely for museum services. I don't know if that, there would be a, a reality, but I'll continue to explore it. It's a big element of the . Yes. And hopefully, I'm sure with a detailed report, there will also be an estimate in what it would take to, again, have the Oregon fully functional. Yes. Good.

Any other questions before I turn to the public? Okay, so let's open it up to the public in the room first. Are there any comments or questions on this agenda item?

Is there, like, any way that we can, like, preserve the Oregon for, like, ideas?

And do you mind first initial, last name, and Crystal will record that?

H-C-A-R-E-L. Great question.

Yes, we think that there is a way to do that. And it's probably more of a topic than we can reasonably cover in this meeting today. But we hope that the public also might want to kind of maybe even if we hope may not be necessary, but if it goes this direction where we kind of need to, you know, really come together as the public behind an asset like this, right, the org and that, you know, the public might be willing to do that. And we would share a lot more about its history. You can find a relatively recent article for its history. And is it okay if we just go there really quickly? I'll show you where it's super easy to find. And it's in EDCHS.org. We know it's going to be expensive to fix it. We just don't know how expensive. And scroll down just a little. There's a little link there that says, tell me more about the picture above, the monthly historic photo. And then if you do a search that lets you, you can just type in Oregon. It should take you right down to New York.

Then you get to your control F. Oregon should do it, or both of them, either.

Because most of them have destroyed it.

Try for extreme PRG instead.

There you go. So here's the website. Back in November of 2025, this write-up was done on the organ, and it gives a great background and history for any organ there.

So I know that it can give you an image with a person in it, so you can just see how big it really is. Oh, we have video. There we go. There's the keyboard. You can see how big the organ is. No, that's right. It was in the San Francisco Chronicle

That was December of last year, when the Chronicle had it. Yeah.

And the building that it's in currently is great for acoustics. It's a larger building, so everything breathes. It's got higher ceilings. Some of the challenges are to restore it would be expensive. If it was moved, it would be expensive to move it. If it were to be moved, where would it go? Where would it be safe? Current building that it's in, the fair would like to modify that space so that they can boost revenue. And that's not exactly compatible with the Oregon.

I think hearing about how rare the wood is and everything, could go to, because they ideally want to rent it out and everything, that could boost people wanting to go there. Because he said it could be cleaned up by some, hopefully. So that ideally would be really nice, to keep it where it is. And they would enjoy having it there.

And it does keep that 100% functional, or if there's elements or entire organ lists stored. How do you protect it in space that's also open to the public?

Yeah, it would seem that that space could be utilized differently. Not that it should be in making that claim, but boy, it could be utilized differently, and this could become much more accessible to the public. I think the public would love performances that take place in a space that is the backdrop. Maybe we're off on...

historical society and the successful programs that are offered, being sold out, or of kind of topic. Imagine if the concrete was stained, now you could modify that, that space and feel to host types of

Any other comments on this particular item before we move on? Yes.

Thanks for not letting it disappear, drop out of it. Keep working on it. It's nice to see that it's still a tough topic.

It is.

And we don't want to lose it.

If on that point, if the Fair Association Board felt at any point, for example, that, you know, this has just been taking too long to get enough attention, I do hope that the very consistent intent and effort that is being put into this is a demonstration of an inevitable path to a positive outcome for that organ, the intent for that positive outcome. So we know that they want the same. There's no question about that. So it's just, okay. It is doable. It is doable.

And to remind everyone, if I may, that the Bergstrom descendants have been vocal in their support of preserving it. They've flown up to Los Angeles, Oregon, and Hawaii and have pledged and offered their support too. So the descendants of the men who built it. So there is a lot of positive.

Yeah, it's a great news story to see that concluded.

And the county has an agreement with the fair. Ultimately, that building is owned by the county.

which is a very important point. Okay. Well, let's say before we get into this too much there, I just wanted to give you that update that there has been a step forward and we should get more information. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks, there was no commitment as to when that report will come out, but I think reasonably it's probably within a couple of weeks. Fair Association Board will receive that report first. I would assume they commissioned the report and then Hopefully we'll also get a chance to take a look at that shortly thereafter and then get different groups together to continue to advance the path forward. All right, I'm not seeing anybody online for comment. I'm going to close this discussion and action item out and move us ahead in the agenda. Collections Committee, we don't have that this time. I apologize to earlier. we do have actually quite a bit of content, so to speak, that has either already been reviewed or has been, it's going to be reviewed and we'll get that into our next meeting.

The ladies know what we're talking about. One of the things that we do here is we look at items that people have brought in for the museum and one of the things that we do is to decide whether or not they have a value to the El Dorado County because sometimes it's not from San Francisco or it really has no historic value. So our job is to make sure the stuff in the museum is the right stuff and has a value for the future. We just don't have anything today to talk about.

OK. So let's move into museum program updates. And we'll begin with El Dorado Western Railroad. I don't know if we have a regional representative. Keith's not here today. But is anybody else filling in for Keith this time?

and was supposed to fill in. Bryce, do you have anything to share about the railroad? I think there was a training.

Yes, we have the train robbery mystery whodunit program that I mentioned earlier. We will also have a program with live music. It's It's a kind of a country, Western, like, bow-down sorts. But there will be live fiddle and harmonica. So you'll see that advertised, I think, in the next three weeks or so. And then there was a training event. We do these quarterly. And this fulfills the requirements for volunteers that want to become an engineer or one of the other specialized functions with the railroad. So that training runs about three hours or so. We do this quarterly, but that one's just completed that on Wednesday.

OK. Oh, yeah. I know. So after this month, September is our last. Or actually, we have the two Saturdays, which are, of course, programs. But then October, we have three Saturdays for the Pumpkin Patch Run. And then so we're going to have everybody's going to be going. And I think it's three runs each day. So we're going to have nine. And then November goes back to the two. But we're going to have, I think that's the one that's doing the hoedown. I don't live with Gloria, so I kind of got a little rundown on it. But we're having a program then. She's trying to go for more themes per each month. So we're having that as like a buffer between the two main holiday ones. And then December, we're back to the three runs for each Saturday. So that one is going to be the Santa one. So I think we're going to have two different Santas and I think we're going to stagger it. So one of them is going to be at the station for two of them. And then one event, we're going to have him on the actual train. So he's going to help the kiddos and everything. And then we're back to a break in January, I do believe. January to April, I think. So yeah, this is the last normal one. And then we're going to go to the three two and then three again for the big holiday ones.

We have started some discussion about having an actual train robbery. Oh, really? Not just a mystery robbery.

Yes.

The Haintown Marshals robbing the train. Because it should be done.

There's continued interest in this, and I like the idea. So once we explore some additional details, then I can run it through the county side. But I've even had members of the public mention this recently, that they have people like being robbed if it's not real.

You get those guns that go bang, with the little flag.

I do have them.

Yeah, it's cute.

Ours just go bang.

Back to the training that happened, was there pretty good participation? I imagine it varies on interest.

We were expecting more people of the volunteers, but the people that are usually running the train, every one of them were there, so that was a good six, I think, because Peter, of course, runs it. But we were expecting more volunteers, like newer volunteers that were showing interest. I think I was the only one that came, but Mark, who was doing the music and everything, we wanted him there just because, you know, safety-wise he can learn because he's on the trains. with the conductor and everything, he's right next to them. So we wanted him to really come, but he didn't make it. Um, but we've had, I think they were saying about five new people showing interest and trying to like, just life has been getting in the way, but we're really excited for them to start coming.

Yeah. We, uh, this is the first time that we've offered the training on a weekday in the, in the evening, trying to accommodate everyone's, uh, varying schedules. So we'll do that again in the future. Historically, the trainings have happened on a Saturday. So we'll probably increase the frequency that we offer training. We are seeing increased interest in becoming a volunteer for the railroad and also the museum. So we'll continue advertising. Of course, one of the best things we're about, but from the commissioners, we're out there in the community as well, but we're seeing a steady increase, which is fantastic.

Anything else on this topic?

I think I said all that I remember.

Questions from the public on El Dorado Western Railroad? Not seeing any in the room, I'll turn online. Nothing there online? Okay, so we'll close out that update and move to the research group.

Well, you're working still to... We have lots of people, lots of research requests coming in. And I've been working on those. And I've been working on the maps. I'm close to 2,000 inventory maps. And I feel like I've created a monster upstairs because you can't hardly all the maps. But now the challenge will be to sort the ones that we need to keep at the museum and decide which ones are going to be in storage. We'll still have the inventory, and if someone wanted that map, we could go to the library where they'll be and find that map. We'll figure out how we're going to store them. Then there are also maps that the surveyor's office can't. And they're all back there. And we have the list of them. However, we don't know how to find the map. We're working hard on it. Kelly's got some ideas about where. We have the inventory, but it's not at the location. And there's probably another 2,000 we have to check.

Oh, wow.

Hopefully, we can figure that out so that we don't have to inventory all of them . And those are mostly parcel maps. And I remember using them before the pandemic when someone would come in and ask about their property. And I had to go through every map in the drawer that was the right township and range. So this will make that a lot easier. And other volunteers are working on what Glenda is working on, inventorying the corners, indexing those, preparing those for movement storage underneath the library. And that will give us more space, put more maps.

Oh, boy. I'll say that.

We'll know where they are.

Yeah, that's important. Oh, yeah. That's what's the point.

What's the earliest map you've worked with?

The oldest one?

Yeah.

I don't know right off. Have I mentioned the layup maps that are there? We have the premier layup collection in the United States. It's beautiful. We're going to be nationally known.

For many reasons of which that's just one.

And I just had this vision one time about the organ and the room and the play of maps. I can just see that organ and where it is, all beautiful. And then a display of the play of maps. They're the most beautiful maps. We have, I don't know how many, hundreds. Yeah, we have hundreds. Lots of information and pictures of life and letters and everything. It would be such a beautiful place. Do a nice modern exhibition.

One of the things that you do, Dee, actually a quick question for Brody. I know she wasn't feeling well recently. In case you've heard from her, she's doing okay.

She's fine. We were working all day yesterday and today in 1848. Wonderful. research requests we get from the museum here.

You and Rhody together, and others certainly, but do so much to help serve the public more broadly with research requests that come in. And as far as I know, we're still not charging, nor am I saying that we should, any fees for that work. And it's really just very selfless and helpful. That's a comment to you, but also to the museum more broadly for empowering and enabling that to happen. Certainly. And beyond that, too, the launch of Catalogit earlier this year, powered by the friends of the specific branch was the Colorado Hills. We're grateful to them, too. But if I might ask, how is progress going? It might be more of a question. I don't know if Bonnie has been doing this mostly, but how is it coming in terms of getting the photos in there and other assets sort of digitized within that. It's slow, I'm sure, but I'm just curious if there's any update on how you feel that that's going to. Is it okay if I pose that question to you specifically?

Yeah, so we've kind of put a pause on uploading any new photos in there and just kind of cleaning up, completing, making sharper what we have in there.

Also really nailing down the control vocabulary that we're using in that and how we're using the information that we're doing that. But I also am continuing to upload objects in there, kind of getting photos and uploading objects there, and getting them right now minimally cataloged.

Because the same idea I have is maybe going over and just checking it out really fast for the record also to see how you've got Dolly there.

With the maps. Dolly has things at the plastic holder. I'm just going to say it. Oh, my God. The site crashed this last week for Imagination Library Day. So am I going here?

Yeah, to the photo collection. Exactly. And down. I wanted to point out, too, how there's an object, right? Strange community in El Dorado County, and there's many 56 items that are in there. But just to comment about how nice that looks the professionalism of the photography as well with the white background it really helps the images to pop and i know that's intentional i know that you went through some effort to make sure that that could happen uh so i just you know want to say that that's really very nice this is new for us as a department and kelly

continues to do a great job. She's experimented with the technology that we have available. And then with the goal, the intent of we want these high quality scans, photos, and to not be edited to the point where they so you will still see the shadows and other elements because you look at it through the scope of preserving and sharing but also the experience piece so that's all taken into consideration and that's one of the reasons too why we've slowed down with importing items and staging them and we're focused on kind of fine-tuning some of these methods and also looking at our metadata. And then once we have some more structure around that, then we'll go ahead and increase the pace slightly of output. So we always have it to where cataloging is being worked on and there's items being imported. It's just right now it's more of a, slower pace and then we'll increase it slightly in the future.

Yeah, now that we do have some inventory in there that doesn't look sparse, we can put the brakes on.

And this adds an entirely new dimension to the database where it's even more of an experience for everybody. cultural items and artifacts. And of course, as most folks in this room are aware of, there's just so much potential, so many things that we would like to put in here. So it continues to be a priority. Yes.

Crystal, show a map.

Is there one in particular? Well, the Doolittle is a good one. You can blow it up.

You can also zoom. It is beautiful.

That's not only on El Dorado Canyon. One of the GLOs, there's El Dorado Canyon.

There we go. Sorry, I moved all of my stuff over.

That's 1869.

And this is a great example because previously you had to be, potentially aware of its existence, and you'd have to physically go to the museum to view and enjoy this just as everything else in the database. And now you can access it wherever you are where you have internet. And remember with the discussions with the commission in the past and the department, we don't have watermarks or anything that's going to take away from that enjoyment. And you can even download the item and then view it in other programs . It's very accessible.

So there's mining maps, and there are all the GLOs, I think, in most of the counties. There you go. And there are three county maps, 1895, 1908, and 1925. They all can be enlarged quite a bit.

I wanted to take a few extra minutes today on the research room in particular to just kind of call out the attention that it definitely deserves as, frankly, one of the cornerstones of how the historical museum serves its community. And it is so obvious to all of us. But it's nice to be reminded of it too sometimes. so any comments from the commissioners on this item at this time on the research room yes not seeing any we'll turn to the public in the room first any comments or questions at this time how about online we do not have anybody online one day i invited people Okay, then I'll close out research room and we will move next to the last on this list of program updates, which is exhibits and tours. I'm not sure who's covering that.

Sorry, I didn't check with you guys to see if you wanted that on the agenda. Any exhibits and tours to talk about?

I know we've had steady visitors. We do have a larger tour coming in the, well, it's the first Friday of October. And then that's going to be about 20 to 25 people that's coming in. So that will be at David and Maria. Oh, that's great. Yeah. Nothing new with the exhibit.

And that's not a school tour, is it?

No, it's not.

It's men. Just 20 to 25 men. It is. It's serves. It's the serves. Oh. Yeah. So it's something in retirement.

Seniors in retirement.

Seniors in retirement, yeah. And they focus on cultural enrichment.

So there hasn't been a class visit to the museum in a long time, from my understanding. Recently, a school reached out inquiring about that. So we'll see. what could be. Greg Morney and I have been talking about that. We have frequent field trips where the students come to the Plasterville Library. So our hope is that we can weave the museum into that, potentially the organ as well. Great idea. Great idea.

And me, we need a docent who has the experience to believe in kids. Can we go into that? Sure.

Okay, Jim. You should get my mom to do it. My mom's a retired California fourth grade teacher and absolutely lives for it. That's where I got my love of state history. And I think she'd probably kill me, but... I would need Jill, too. Oh, Jill. Yeah, she has two ways.

Just take her name and put it in the recording. I mean, how would I be able to

And she's doing field trips at the Gold Bog, but seasonally. Yeah. Availability changes. And then on the Historical Society Board, one of our board members, Sarah Pagano, is a teacher in Meno and is working hard on a traveling trunks and carpet bag program, but also wants to collaborate with the library. And I just, it's my fault. I just... to you and Kelly, but she would really like to create something where she can bring the students from Camino to the entire school. She collaborates with the other teachers of her campus. So I will get that done. Is she trying to create a traveling trunk? She's putting together traveling trunks, but she also, on behalf of the Historical Society for the whole county, but she also wants to work with the county museum to build a field trip program. I remember you did that for a long time.

Yeah, I'd be glad to assist on that.

Here's our docent also for the floor guide too at the County Museum. You mean for the traveling trucks? Yeah, that's what I used to build. That would be amazing. I'll put you in touch with her. Have you met Sarah before? I'm not sure. Okay, I'll add you on.

What I'm curious about from the discussion is why don't we create a program instead of kind of waiting for them to come to us? We should start to say, what do we have to offer? How can we put that into a package once we've got that package? Then we put it out there. If you build it, they will come.

I think it takes a lot of volunteer support because library staff is stretched. And so if we have people that are expert and are willing to show up and help put it together, I absolutely think that.

Put that together with a traveling trunk. You don't need as much there because they've already got an introduction. When they get there, they've got specific things they're looking for. It's designed to pull together.

That's one component. The other, of course, is... Questions are so much better. Yeah. And it's nice to have something tactile like that for on-site field trips, too, so that kids can touch things. Yep. So, yeah, that's a good idea. I will add you to that introduction.

Any other comments or questions related to exhibits and tours at this time? from commissioners or staff. Okay, so how about from the public in the room, any questions or comments? Excuse the formality, but it's required. Okay, we'll turn online. Nope, nobody's joined us. Solitary YouTube channel. Okay, then we'll close out museum program updates and move to museum commissioner comments at this time. We have one item there, which is community engagement updates, but more broadly, any other updates that commissioners may have at this time. So we'll just kind of go in the same sequence again, if that's okay, and begin with Commissioner Vanbrink.

Do you relate to that role? I love that we keep saying that, rubbing that in. I, by the way, was working on something that will benefit the County Museum, and that's why I was late. That's why we started this deal. Just a few quick notes. One is, Commissioner Rigoli, did you already speak to the trip to the Amador County Historical Museum? No.

In fact, it occurred to me a little bit later, and I thought maybe you'd bring it up. Do you want to cover it, or did you want me to do it? I think you, if you're okay with that, because you'll tell a better story next time.

There was an item that had been donated from the National Park Service to the, excuse me, from the Forestry Service to the County Museum previously. There was a reproduction uniform, I think 1930s to 1940s, roughly, of a ranger in the El Dorado National Forest and what they would have worn. And that was accepted by this commission, you know, for interpretive purposes and exhibits But there were also some photos that we later discovered, historical photos that they donated that showed rangers in the El Dorado National Forest, but on the Amador County side. We only later discovered that, that we had previously accessioned. So we took that, formally deaccessioned it as a commission previously. And the Amador County Historical Museum did express interest in it. And so with Kelly's, as an assignment from Kelly, At the museum, Commissioner Regal and I drove that down with the release form and had it signed by the administrator of the Amador County Historical Museum. It's all in catalog. It was a great process to have all these deaccessions formally logged in there. And we continue to work through a long list of items that don't have provenance connected to our account. So we are reaching out to the donors and or to other institutions that these may hold relevance for and returning them. So that's rewarding too. I know last year, Director Lavelle and Commissioner Rioli went all the way to Weaverville to do that. So with a crucible that was from Trinity County. Next thing is why I was late. And that's because the Eldorado County Historical Society is piecing together, organizing, developing an exhibit that'll open two weeks called Heritage of Harvest, the History of the Apple Hill Growers Association. And so I was meeting with Pam Harris, the current president of the Growers Association, and doing a transition or doing a loan agreement for all these artifacts from the founding families that she rounded up. Several of them are historical photos. They're photos relevant to the history of the founding families and in as much as Apple Hill is concerned. And then also interviews that I don't think anybody's ever heard before. So recorded oral and filmed interviews. So I asked for her permission from the Growers Association. I said, we'll draft up an agreement that the Historical Society will, as one obviously, but that the County Museum can do for it to be added to catalog it. I explained to her what that looked like and she said, absolutely. So I think that's exciting that that history can be preserved. for public use and research. So we'll work on that. So that's exciting news, and that's why I'm late. We met at 2, and I thought, oh, it'll take 30 minutes. And it was like right down to the wire. And then last thing is that we have the Apple Hill exhibit coming up. And please do come see it. We're also going to do a pop-up reprisal of our three sold-out sessions Lost Chinatowns of El Dorado County. We are doing a, we're going to reprise that, do an encore for November. And now that that exhibit is back home at the County Museum, coordinate with Kelly and Heather to, after the tour, the first time we did this, the exhibit was at the Fountain and Tallman Museum. So people walked to the Fountain and Tallman. The way this will work now is we will do a walking tour of Lost Chinatown of El Dorado. And then people will be directed over to the county museum where Heather will interpret the exhibit you have there and lead a tour of it. So that'll be fun. The idea is to get 30 to 50 people into the museum that day. I was just like, no. But I mean, that's always a good thing, just not all at once, right? But that is being worked out and developed right now.

I think Bryce wants you to be there that day.

I would love to be there that day. Those are my updates.

Thank you for the updates. Thank you. Any questions for Sean? Okay. Inclusive of the public at this time? No. Okay. Nobody's online. So we'll move to you next. If you have anything.

Okay.

All right. Very good. For my part, I'll just add for Save the Graves. That's coming up really quickly, and it's so worth going to. I don't know for our public this year, if you've heard of Save the Graves, it's such a cool organization. They spend all their time in cemeteries. Once you sign up with Save the Graves, which you will definitely do, then you become an honorary taphophile, if you've ever heard of that word before. But that's somebody, T-A-P-H, taphophile, that is... I mean, it's how you usually, as one normally does, chooses to spend their weekends or evenings or, you know, in cemeteries. It's like the natural thing.

So, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, writing up a task, perhaps. Anyway, so the Save the Graves organization does a lot of good in serious disparate county cemeteries. They're a nonprofit organization. They do a production once a year in a cemetery, which is the Placerville Union Cemetery on B Street, where they graveside right next to where these... individuals are buried they tell the life stories of that person that's buried there it's so much fun and so uh really kind of uh empowering for the community and you know in uh remembering its history and some of the people who really helped to shape local history here in the county or otherwise so that's on october 17th and everybody's invited to come to that. It's a lot of fun. Several performances happening basically every 20 minutes or 30 minutes. Any questions for me on that?

When you pick this graveyard, I know where the graveyard is, but the person there, how do you know you're going to pick this one or maybe pick that one over there? Is there a criminal here or

They come out and tell you. It's my turn. Do a little channeling, you know, see who comes.

They tell Mike they're ready for their close-up.

Sometimes she wants a real answer. There's a selection committee.

It's a selection committee.

You could be a part of that selection committee if you're ever interested. It's something that's very open. We're always looking for help.

They have great t-shirts. designs last year, t-shirts for sale, great food, a lot of engagement from the library, museum, and railroad scope. We interacted with hundreds of people. It's a very positive thing.

That's where we met Joe Conley, and then that's ended up being a really good partnership.

He's working on doing his presentations at the libraries now.

So how many, I'm getting back to this, how many do you honor or do you have to, the person that's presenting themselves to that stage, how many do you have?

Some years have been more than others. I'd say it's six this year, I believe. We have two stages, but actually that mausoleum that we saw the picture of earlier. So that's, if you zoom out a little bit more, you'll see that that's like on either side of that mausoleum, yeah. On the exterior sides, that's where the presentations happen. And in the interior, we close this off with drapes because the actors are in there and then they refresh and come out. It's like a green room, exactly. So that's where it happens. But with two stages, really there's three stages, but The third stage is a special stage for other things. But the two stages, one performance at a time on each stage. And then another character comes on. And then we repeat it again after that about four times during the day. So you can come any time and still catch all the performances.

Do they go to the actual headstone?

Yeah, we will have balloons tied to the actual headstones so that everybody can find them and know exactly where that person is buried.

When possible, the performance is gravesite. But often, that's not logistically possible to put out seating because it's in a really bad area or it's, you know, the elevation's off. Yeah, so that's why they've now set up stages. But yeah, when possible. So when the blares were done, the blares are buried just to the left of that fountain. So three blair performances took place there, and you were literally looking at their grave. But it's just because they were adjacent.

So you go by the mausoleum, or do you go right by the actual ones that are in the ground?

We pick the characters, not where they're located. So they could be buried. And that's why I say the balloons will be, if it's a little further away from right here, well, you'll see the balloon. So you'll know where it's at.

Thank you. I heard the library museum is going to give out bookmarks there. All right, well, we'll advance then over to Rami.

The stagecoach will be running not this Sunday, but next Sunday, 1230 to 330. Where? Starting at the tower. Bell Tower. Yep, running down Main and around on to Stagecoach Allie. And I hear they're going to get robbed. Oh, man.

Aren't you going to suffer? I'm going to write that down. What was the time?

1230 to 330. And what were the days? Sunday was the 13th, I think. We're usually running on the third weekend, but

Looks like the weather's going to be nice. We got everybody all involved. You know what it's like to find volunteers all at the same time?

Yes.

That's going to be the week Amber don't.

Any questions for Randy? Okay, we'll move to Jeanette.

Okay, the Eagle Scout thing where they were asking us about all of our family members and other veterans that we knew, they finally have it up, not on Main Street, it's like, Around Main Street. So it's in, like, the parking lots. And over by the Fuel for Less, they're on the lampposts. So they finally got those up. So you can see. I don't know if they got all 40 of them that they were aiming for. But they have pictures and everything. So it's really exciting. And they're rank.

And the pictures are big. They're like that. They're just absolutely wonderful. We haven't found ours yet.

But they're veterans, right?

Yes, all of them are veterans that either lived here for like the last half of their life or were born and raised.

The banners are beautiful. I've noticed them along Main Street on the back end by Highway 50.

You know, the quilt, when you're talking about around town, the fundraiser they do with the quilts that's in many of the stores in town and you can get a little brochure that'll tell you which places have them. So we have it in the gallery.

Okay.

Okay. That concludes, I think, our commissioner updates. Are there any questions or comments at this time or additions to that before we open it up to the public? No. Okay. And the public in the room first, any questions or comments? Okay. And looking online, we still have nobody joining us.

Let's get

Yeah, go ahead.

Next meeting, I will be online, okay? You'll be online, okay.

Online or in the room, but also online?

Be online. I was thinking about going online. That would make Jacob feel so good. Yeah.

I'm under no delusion. It's not so popular. It's a logistics thing. It was nice to have members from the public attend today and we hope that it does for them spark an interest in participation at any point in the future of your lives to just get involved with things that are happening that you like in your society and your culture. Yeah. You're deserving of extra credit.

If you're in class, wants to take a field trip to see the organ in the museum.

So how did you get this assignment?

Let's do public forum.

Public forum is an opportunity for members of the public to address the commission on subject matter that is not on the agenda, but within the jurisdiction. Comments during public forum are limited to three minutes per person. Is there any public forum comments for public forum at this time? Not anticipating it, but just to make sure. Okay, I'll turn online. I do not see that anybody joined in those two seconds. Therefore, we are adjourned. Thank you, everybody.

wanting to get it on the record, why they're here.

Because maybe we'll- No, we did it a little earlier. We did it earlier.

We did, yes. Oh, but I mean, why?

How come this committee- Because they wanted to be given the third degree by a venture. Right.

This is what happens when you have an ex-history teacher.

It's the same with the address and the time.