Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

pledge in a moment of silence. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Please be seated. And roll call, please. All right. Um, Commissioner Edison, present. Commissioner Ciro present. Commissioner Paulroot

present. Okay. And let the record show that commissioners Sautille and Morose are absent.

Thank you. Welcome to the Elcohone planning commission meeting. This meeting is being livereamed on the city of Elcohone website. Appeals of the final decision of the planning commission may be made this evening. must be filed in writing with the city clerk before 5:00 p.m. Monday, September 29th, 2025 and must include a filing fee. If you wish wish to speak on either a agenda item or non-aggenda item tonight, please fill out the request to speak card located by the secretary and give it to the secretary who will call your name to speak when the agendum item is made up for public comment. We ask that you give your name and your last name and spelling. Speakers are limited to three minutes. The display on the podium as well as the other monitors in the chamber will show time counting down. At 30 seconds, the podium clock will readout will turn red, signifying you have 30 seconds until the end of your time. Applicants and individuals representing groups of people may be allowed more time if appropriate. All public hearing comments should be made addressed to me as the chair of the commission and not to individual commissioners or to staff members. Please turn off all electronic devices if you have not already done so. Pursuant to city council resolution number 114-79, a commissioner who has received evidence related to the matter before the planning commission other than an unescorted view of the subject property is required to disclose such meeting at such information at the hearing. At this time, we will take comments from any member of the public on any item of business within the jurisdiction of the commission that is not on the agenda. Under state law, no action can be taken on items brought before under public

comment except to refer to the refer to staff for administration or to place on a f future agenda item. Is there anyone who wishes to address the commission under public comment? Please come forward. Seeing none. Were there any public comments submitted prior to the meeting? No, there were not. Moving on to the consent calendar. A single motion will cover all items on the consent calendar. Does the commission wish to pull any consent calendar items for discussion? Nope. Does staff wish to pull any items for discussion? No changes from staff.

Thank you. I'll move to adopt the minutes as recorded. I'll second. We have a motion from Comminister Circle, second by Paul Rue. Please vote. Motion carries by unanimous vote of members present.

Okay. The first item under public hearing is item number two, project name, autoglass installation and window tinting. The request is from A1 Auto Glass and Window Tinting Company. It is sequent. Staff recommendation is to approve. Staff. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh so the proposed uh location for automo automobile services to include G glass installation and window tinting is at 944 Broadway. Uh you may be familiar with 944 Broadway. It's historically been a retail glass shop where people would frequently go get glass replaced for window frames or also for automobiles. Um the proposed business that's looking to move in will be doing um window tinting. Um and uh they are proposing to do all activities within the existing building. U so this is an aerial view of the subject site. Uh it's on the north side of Broadway between North Mollis and North Anza Street. Um the site is surrounded by commercial uses to the east and west and to the south and then to the north uh there are some residential uses. Uh the general plan designation for the subject site is general commercial and the zoning is also general commercial. Uh the site is a little over a third of an acre and there is the existing two-story building that's there um just under 6,000 square feet. Um they aren't proposing any changes to the existing structure although there are some uh improvements to the site uh including some landscaping um some permitting for fencing as well as some permits for uh signs. So here's the uh current condition of the site. So they have made some uh exterior improvements uh with some paint as well as the uh signs uh that are in the process of being permitted. Uh for the conditional use permit findings, uh staff believes that the

planning commission can make the findings to approve the conditional use permit. Um it would be consistent with the general commercial uh designation for the general plan. Uh there's no changes uh to the existing uh development at the site. Um the overall operation of autoglass uh tinting and installation uh wouldn't be uh uh creating any issues with surrounding properties and it wouldn't generate smoke odors or dust um etc. Um and it would uh maintain some continuity continuity with the property's historic commercial use of uh glass uh glass sales. So overall uh for SQUA uh the California Environmental Equality Act uh the project would be exempt as an existing facility uh with uh no changes and so staff's recommendation is that the planning commission adopt the next resolutions in order approving the SQA exemption uh as well as the conditional use permit. So that concludes my presentation. Happy to answer any questions.

Any questions for staff? I have just one question. Uh, is the property immediately east already an autoglass company or I may be confusing this because many years ago the there were two separate glass companies who were competitors and then at one point the one on the east bought the one on the west and so it was in both places and so I'm just is it a different company, same company? Um well, the property to the east uh was historically referred to as the Red Barns. Um the Red Barns uh were approved under a conditional use permit for auto sales um approximately a year ago.

Okay. Um they've been finishing up their site improvements and they painted the buildings recently. Um over the years there have been various autorelated uses inside the Red Barn. Uh but as of right now, they're only approved for auto sales. Okay. Thank you. All

crew. Do you have any questions? The only question I had was I've had window tinting in the past and they do use water to clean the windows. As far as I saw on the report that they're going to use towels for cleanup. Is there any secondary I don't think they use a exorbitant amount of water, but is is it just going to be towel cleanup? Uh, I know that um engineering services and our storm water division um looked at looked into this and looked at the amount of um of water that would be generated and determined that what was being proposed would be in compliance with our storm water regulations. Um, and the applicant is here and present in the audience and could speak to it. But um, generally the way it was characterized in the application is that it's really just minimal amounts of water that u do not generate a need for a drain or other use. It's just essentially cleaned up with towels. If there's no other questions, I'll open up the public comment. Is there any speaker cards?

Uh yes, I have one speaker card, Donna Hopewell. And and I should say that uh Donna had uh indicated support uh for the request. I believe was representing the uh property owner um but didn't need to speak. Okay. Donna, did you want to come up and speak? Are you present? Thank you for coming. And as you come up, can you just give us your name and spell your last name?

H O P E W E L L. And I was just here to comment on my father is the owner of the property and we were um concerned about the fencing in the back. We noticed that you had a concern about it. Uh the prior fencing was a 6ft wooden fence across the property line and um it just got demolished. Homeless people were coming in. The previous tenant we had, you know, almost two years trying to get him out of there and it was just the property was a disaster. And so we removed the wooden fence and according to the fence guy I used, he said it was okay to put an 8ft fence. So we put an 8ft fence, a chain link. Now we did put barb wire across the top which can be removed if it needs to. But ever since the fence has been replaced, there has not been any problem with homeless people. And there was drug activity, we understand, on property. and everything's been clean since we've secured the fencing.

Fenced the fence. Okay. Does anyone have any questions for the speaker? I know it's your father's business, but with the auto services you're doing there. What type of what? Oh, father's property. Yeah, the property owner. So, you don't know about the auto services that are done there? No, but the owner of that company, our new tenant, he is here present. Okay, perfect. And then I have to comment, thank you for the fencing because I actually I've had issues before with the window thing because of prior employees. So, I'm glad that that has helped. We're sorry for that. It was okay. It was a mess.

Okay. Questions. Thank you for coming down. Are there any more speaker cards? Not for this item. Anyone? I move to close public hearing. I'll second. We'll vote. I think it worked. Motion carries by unanimous vote of members present. Okay. So, any discussion on this item? I don't think so. Pretty clean, pretty straightforward.

Does anyone want to make a motion? I will be happy to make a motion. Perfect. I move to adopt the next resolutions in order approving the SQA exemption and cup number 2025-000016 subject to conditions. Second commission commissioner circle seconded by public group. Please vote.

And motion carries by unanimous vote of members present. Congratulations. Thank you for coming down. Bear with me. Okay. Second item, uh, excuse me, number three item uh, agenda item project name tobacco display area and economic limitation condition. The quest is to consider increasing the tobacco and related products display area and provide a relocation opportunity for existing smoke shops. It is SQA exempt staff recommen excuse me staff recommendation is to provide feedback on the preferred alternatives. Staff. Great. Thank you. So, uh this item was initiated by the city council on July 22nd of 2025. Um they asked staff to look at options for increasing tobacco display areas and for potentially allowing um as well as considering um potentially allowing the relocation of existing smoke shops. Um, and then we're also eventually we'll propose some uh language for uh cleanups based on some state law changes related to tobacco sales um being uh 21 years of age now instead of 18 years of age. So there'll be some additional clarifications from staff uh in the final version of the ordinance. Um so just to start off with definitions um so a tobacco retailer is allowed up to 16 cubic feet of display area. Anything above and beyond um 16 cubic feet uh is classified as a smoke shop and a smoke shop requires a conditional use permit and it has to meet certain uh separation standards from sensitive uses and residential. So the smoke shop ordinance was approved in 2006 uh with those spatial standards and any smoke shops that were existing back in 2006 uh were uh deemed legal non-conforming meaning that they were legally established but they didn't meet the regulations that were in that 2006 code and they were required to obtain a

conditional use permit. Uh so currently uh citywide we have a total of 89 tobacco retailers and we have eight smoke shops for a total of uh 97 uh tobacco retail sales locations. So this map shows the 97 total locations. Uh uh so we went out and actually visited all 97 of the locations in advance of this hearing in order to get a feeling for uh what was going on at the tobacco retailers. Uh, one of the concerns um expressed at the council meeting was that um the 16 cubic feet of display area wasn't sufficient to accommodate the display of of hookas or uh hookah pipes uh just because they can be larger in size. And so what we wanted to do was to go out and look and see um citywide how many of the tobacco retailers are actually displaying hookah. And so what we found uh here is the the green ones uh were displaying hookah. That's a total of 24 of the 97. So about a quarter of the existing uh tobacco retailers. So one of the difficult concepts to understand is the 16 cubic feet um maximum retail display area. Um so 16 cubic feet uh for easy math purposes would be a 4x4 cabinet that would be um 1 ft in depth. Um alternatively you could have a cabinet that was smaller in depth. So, if we went to an 8x4 cabinet uh that was only 6 in in depth, that would also be a total of approximately uh 16 cubic feet. Um what I've done here is I've taken a generic picture of a 7-Eleven um as an example. So, this is not a location that is here in the city of Elcohone, but I I thought that it would be good for um to illustrate kind of the the spatial areas. So, um 16 cubic feet is generally what you would see in that yellow box there. So that

would be approximately an 8 by4 display area with maybe six inches in depth with you know six to 10 packs of cigarettes uh behind them. Uh the pink area there uh is intended to illustrate approximately 32 uh cubic feet. Um so one of the options for the planning commission to discuss this evening is whether or not we want to um increase from 16 cubic feet to 32 cubic feet. So, um that pink box there would generally um show what a 32 cubic feet display area would look like. And then uh the last option that we brought for the commission's consideration would be to look at a uh percentage uh display area. And so this uh type of display area um max u is or the maximum maximum area for display on a percentage basis is used elsewhere in the code uh like for alcohol sales. So for at a convenience market, alcohol sales are limited to um 10% of the retail display area. So um the commission if they saw fit could decide to change from a you know 16 or 32 uh cubic feet um measurement to a percentage basis which is kind of similar to alcohol. So the uh the blue box there uh was intended to illustrate uh what a percentage limitation could look like. So, if you have a standard uh 1500 square foot uh retail uh convenience market, um that area there approximately 15 feet in linear length allowing display all the way up to the ceiling because you're no longer working with a cubic square foot measurement uh would would equate in general to a low percentage of the floor area for the convenience market. So again, just to summarize, the three options that we're bringing forward tonight would be to um to increase the display area from 16 cubic feet uh to 32 cubic feet. Um to modify the the display area to a percentage of the retail floor area. Um

the 3% um number was suggested in the agenda report. Then obviously the third option would be uh for the commission to um not recommend any changes to the code and just to retain the 16 cubic feet limitation. The second aspect of what we're talking about tonight is the option for um smoke shop relocations. Um so um just a minute ago we talked about how in 2006 all smoke shops that were um legal uh they were made legal non-conforming they obtained conditional use permits um and that they those smoke shops that were legal non-conforming and had conditional use permits um are located um closer to residential and closer to sensitive uses than is allowed in today's code. So essentially what happens is those existing smoke shops um they can't move, they can't expand, they can't really it's very difficult for any changes to be made. And so one of the things that we're encountering is that um at certain locations we're seeing uh properties redevelop or we're seeing new uses come in and we're seeing a demand um to be able to modify some of the smoke shops that are out there. So being that um you know most of the areas along East Main Street and Broadway are within 500 ft of residentially zoned properties, it's it's really hard for any of the ones that are along those uh those roads to relocate. And so what we were asking for feedback from the planning commission on is to um consider a some new a new language in the code that would allow those um smoke shops that are legal non-conforming and that have conditional use permits to um to modify their location as long as they are um no less compliant uh than today. So if they were 100t away from residential today and they wanted to move to a location that was 400t away from residential, we could support that. but they couldn't move to a location that was 50 feet away from residential. So, they would have to

be in more compliance uh with the code as it was drafted. Um the intent would be to continue to require a conditional use permit and then uh the only way that they could move again would be if there was an increase in separation from those sensitive uses. And really, it would be an opportunity uh to support local businesses if they were succeeding and wanted to make some modifications um and to enable that change. So, for staff's recommendation, we're just requesting that the planning commission uh consider the proposed changes uh to the zoning code and provide feedback. Um this is a public hearing and we do have public speakers that want to speak on this topic. Um, so we're asking you to consider um all the input from the public uh provide feedback to staff and then we would uh continue the public hearing to October 7th of 2025 and then we return with a draft uh draft resolutions for um the planning commission's consideration. So that concludes my presentation. Happy to answer any questions.

Anyone have questions? I know I do.

I do have a question in regards to the display. Does it affect maybe this is free knowledge for me? Um the displays for outside. My concern is is that there's a lot of the not a lot. There are a certain number of smoke shops that were within walking distance where kids do walk past them and um does this affect the outdoor displays where they're interior but their displays are outside if that makes sense. for um for tobacco display um it has to be um separated from the public. So it can't be self-s served. So it would be behind a counter and so I I wouldn't anticipate a circumstance where any type of tobacco merchandise would be displayed outdoors.

It's not so much as it's displayed outdoors as the inside display is against a glass window so it's visible from outside. I I think what I the way I would address that would be to say that the any smoke shop still requires the conditional use permit and as part of the conditional use permit the overall layout of the floor plan and display areas could be evaluated by the planning commission. Um, so if we were to have one that proposed to relocate, uh, we could look at, um, you know, the visibility and and the commission could entertain the idea of whether or not that is compatible with the surrounding properties and uses and whether it's detrimental to the surrounding properties because of the visibility of those products. So, I think it would be probably most likely addressed on a case-by case basis. And the only other question I had, I saw the alternatives. The the concern I had with going to a percentage would be for the larger smoke shops, it could be it would be a little bit disproportionate compared to other ones. Could is this something we could make and make an amendment and a cap? Should we do a percent recommend a percentage? Um certainly that was one of the uh issues that we identified as being a potential um problem. So you know a larger store if it went on a percentage basis could have a pretty significant uh floor area devoted towards uh the sale of these types of products. Um a cap is certainly something that the commission could consider. Um so instead of just doing a percentage, you could do a percentage but not to exceed. So maybe that's you know 300 or 400 square feet. U but that's the type of feedback that staff would would be looking for this evening. Okay. Any other questions for staff?

Well, let's open up public hearing. Do you have speaker cards? Yes, we have um Vince Coula who is speaking for um others have seated their time to him. Okay. Hello. I don't think your mic is on. I think I might be me. Try that again. Good evening, Chairman Edison. There you are. All right. Cool. Uh, I have, uh, 10 speakers here with me today. They yield their time to me. I don't need all 30 minutes. I just need four minutes. Well, let's put you at five and see where we're at.

All right. Thank you. All right. Good evening, Chair Edison and members of the Alcohol Planning Commission. My name is Vince Cula and I represent Alcohon Cash and Carry located at 1198 East Main Street and immediately adjacent to the Harbor Freight. The business was established in 2007 and serves primarily as a cash and carry for general retail merchandise and hookah products. The business has maintained a city of alcohon business license and tobacco retailer license since opening in 2007. Hookah, as some of you know, is very unique and different than other types of tobacco and holds very special religious and cultural values throughout the Middle East and elsewhere. Alcohon cash and carry is known throughout the country as one of the premier distributors of rare and hard to find hookas which can only be sourced from the Middle East and found here in Elcohone. The business owner, Mr. Rammy Tomika frequently gets requests from all over the country seeking special hookas with some of them valued in the thousands of dollars. Some of them are considered pieces of art and in many cases they serve as centerpieces in homes or decorative pieces a top fireplace mantels. I've brought with me today a few examples. Both of them please. Where did you go? I've brought with me today a few examples of rare hookas. This one is called Bablot Taha from Iraq and this one is Khalil Marm from Egypt. And one of the very first things you notice about on about it is the very distinct

size as opposed to a traditional pack of cigarettes. As you can see, this hook is almost 4t tall and very quickly takes up the allotted 16 cubic feet. Uh about four maybe five of these can safely be sat and take up 16 cubic feet. While in comparison, this traditional pack of cigarettes can fit approximately 1,500 packs in 16 cubic feet, which includes about 150 different brands or types. In addition to the hookah itself, there are components that are required such as tobacco, coals, hoses, and other necessary pieces. Whereas traditional tobacco user that might smoke cigarette just needs a small little three and a half inch pack with a small lighter that probably fits inside the pack of cigarettes. Because this individual business was established one year after the deemed approved ordinance was adopted, Alcohon Cash and Carry is unable to publicly display these hundreds of hookas it has in its inventory. Essentially, what happens is a customer will come in and ask to see a specific size or color or brand, and then an employee then will proceed to the stock room, pick out a few samples that they think the customer might like, bring them out, and then the back and forth starts happening where they're bringing out different ones that they might like or might not like. And the employee often, as I mentioned, will go back and forth, which, as you can imagine, is a substantial disservice to not only the customer, but also the business. We don't believe that hookah should be held to the same display size restrictions as a 3-in pack of cigarettes. So therefore, as an effort to help mitigate, I think the incidental impact to hookah as part of the existing tobacco ordinance that was adopted in 2007, we recommend option number one, a percentage of floor space that's limited

to hookah products only. So if we went to 10% or 3% or 5% whatever you recommend, this wouldn't be inclusive of cigarettes. This would be limited to hookah products only. We also recommend that you consider requiring a business to have a minimum of 4,000 square ft with a maximum of 10% floor space devoted to hookah. Similar to the alcohol sales in a grocery store as referenced in the staff report, we would even recommend taking it a step further and limiting the total square footage of hookah products to 500 square ft of floor space like you mentioned earlier so that someone with a 20,000 square foot store doesn't have 2,000 square feet dedicated to hookah products. All we're asking for tonight is fairness and social equality for the different types and sizes of cultural tobacco products such as hookah, which requires substantially more space than a traditional pack of cigarettes. Thank you for your consideration. I'm available to answer any questions,

but I should I take these down? No, no, you can leave them for now. It's actually good to see. Do you have any questions? Um, not an immediate question, but uh I have some neighbors and I don't know what was going on, but they had a hookah that was maybe another foot taller than this. And as they were pulling it out of their van, they dropped it and it was glass and I can't imagine how much that was worth. This one's 800 right here. It made me nervous when he put it up because I could hear that it's glass. You could hear how slowly he moved up. I mean, this is expensive inventory here.

Um, I know it makes sense because that is definitely larger. It's just common sense in a pack of cigarettes. But regards to the hookah, the products that go along with it, what is that going to inclusive in the space that you're going to be having for the hookas? That's inclusive. Okay. Yeah. Perfect. That's inclusive. And none of this would be available to the general public. It would be behind a counter. So a customer could come in and see it and say, "Can I see that one? Can I see that one? Can you give me a pack of Kohl's? Can you give me a pack of this?" And so forth. Okay. Thank you. May I just clarify one item, please?

Um I did want to be clear. The way the tobacco ordinance, tobacco retail ordinance is structured now is that it's um it's limited in display area to the 16 cubic feet. Uh but it allows the display of all um tobacco related materials. So it does allow hookah display as of right now. It's just limited to that 16 cubic feet and hence the the spatial constraint that the speaker is alluding to. Uh but um all tobacco products, pipes, tobacco related paraphernalia is all allowed for display under tobacco retailers license as of today. Um and I think from staff's point of view and from an enforcement perspective, I think what we're recommending is is not to uh carve out different display areas for certain things. is just to set a standard of, you know, either a 16 cubic feet, 32 cubic feet or a percentage of the floor area and then anyone can display anything that they want that's allowed for display under the tobacco um retail regulations.

That was going to be my question. I think you answered it. So, just so don't go away, but I want to make sure that I understand. So hookah, cigarettes, cigars, it is all going to be under this one cup or are we bifurcating it? Just to make sure I'm understanding.

So under tobacco retailer regulations, so at a 7-Eleven any convenience market, anyone can come in and get a tobacco retailer license. Once they have that tobacco retailer license, they can display up to 16 cubic feet of tobacco um retail merchandise. that includes um any devices for smoking. It includes um cigarettes, um tobacco papers, any any types of items that they want to display. So there's no conditional use permit that's required and they so they can display um hookas. So at so when we went out and visited uh the 97 different locations, uh we did observe uh you know multiple gas stations where they have you know a small 16 cubic foot display area, but maybe they have like one hookah that's you know sitting on or next to the cabinet. That makes sense. You answered my question.

So, if it was a percentage of the floor space, they could they could do 10 hookas or they could do 200,000 cigarettes if they wanted to do that with that percentage of the floor space. Okay. Yes. So, yeah, that that would be the intent from staff because we don't want to uh we want to um just allow the display of all merchandise and then let the market determine uh what needs to be displayed. Perfect. Thank you. The question I had for what was the business that Alcohon Cash and Carry. What's the size of that business? 4,500 square feet. Okay. It's primarily a grocery store. They have um everything from toilet paper to eggs.

Okay. That was my only question. Thank you. Is there any other speaker cards? Well, I have a speaker card from Ramy Tom. He indicated do you want to speak or do not? He's the business owner. Yeah, if you have any comments, this is your time. Just please state your name and spell your last name, please.

Hello, my name is Rammy Tomka. My last name T O M K I A. I think I spelled it right. I've been u I've been in Alcohon since um 1992. I opened um the store in 2007 and I've been serving Alcohon City since then. I have no violations in my um sorry no violations at all. And um just to let you guys know, I get people from all over America that come to me. We have hookas that nobody has. These hookas are made in Iraq. You know, nobody in America has them. These other ones made in Egypt. So I'm known for for all this stuff. And um we have no problems there. We have many religions that come to us. They believe in us. That's all. Do you guys have any questions for me?

No, I just want to give you an opportunity to say your piece. Is there any questions for the owner? I do have a question. Yeah. Um I I've seen quite a variety of hookas in the last two decades in Elone. Um would you say these are probably some of the larger ones? Yeah, these are one of the largest ones. Okay. What would you say an averagesized hookah would be? about maybe like a three-footer, two foot and a half, maybe something like that. Okay. But we specialize in these items and people know us for this, you know. Yeah.

Like just this hookah, I probably have a hundred of them, different styles cuz we like import them from Iraq. This one we imported from Egypt. We have many different ones, you know. So like people come to us. And one more thing is a lot of the like um uh Muslim community and the the Christians and they feel comfortable coming to us. They don't like coming going to like a smoke shop. They just feel more comfortable to come to us and you know they they just I don't know they they they don't like to see all the pipes and all that stuff, you know, the bongs and all that stuff. So that's it. You know they they love our place and we have never had a problem there. Yeah, of course. Different.

All right. Thank you. I have no other questions. Any questions? No, I'm good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any other speaker cards? Yes. Samantha Cruz. Hi, good evening. Well, I don't know if it's if it's on. Can you uh uh I don't hear your mic yet, but can you uh say your name and spell your last name, please?

Uh my name is Samantha Cruz. Last name is Cruz C R U Z. And just want to say good evening, commissioners and chairman. Um and thank you for the opportunity for allowing me to speak today. Uh I work with Kasa Neighborhoods, a nonprofit here and that does a lot of work here in alcohol with preventing tobacco use among youth and just trying to reducing it to among adults. So I just want to come out and just kind of just strongly recommend that you guys just adopt alternative three just not to change anything to the code as there is no demonstrated need for the tobacco and smoke shops to be granted more display space for tobacco products as the reality is that the number of legal products available for sale in California um has been greatly reduced in recent years due to strong state laws designed to protect public health. Since 2022, uh the Senate bill 793 has prohibited retailers from selling flavored tobacco products and flavor enhancers, which were a major deliver driver of youth tobacco use. And just this year, Assembly Bill 3218 went into effect, requiring that only products included on the state approved unflavored tobacco list may be legally sold. And that list is also set to be finalized as of December 31st of this year. And uh these policies mean that the range of tobacco products retailers can now offer is extremely limited. So therefore there's going to be possibly more space for them to even advertise or put their products up for display if knowing regular tobacco products are going to be a lot more restricted of like the occasional like cigarettes and vapes. So because of these restrictions um increasing the display space is not only unnecessary but also risks undermining the progress that we have made for public health efforts. Larger displays can create appearance of greater product priority and normalize tobacco use particularly among young people. We know that the retail visibility in the

marketing directly influence experimentation and addiction especially for youth and vulnerable populations. By keeping the current code intact, the city will be supporting the intent of these statewide public laws and sending the clear message that protecting our community from harms of tobacco remains a priority. For these reasons, I respectfully urge you to adopt alternative three and maintain the existing code. Thank you. Do you have any questions for the speaker?

I do. Um, thank you for coming first of all. I appreciate it. Um, do you see a distinction between tobaccof flavored products that are aimed toward youth and hookah?

Uh, yes I do. I have I'm also aside from um the work that I do, I'm also a tobacco researcher. So I I do a lot of research in tobacco control and also prevention. So aside from, you know, despite cigarettes rates being really low, great, awesome, you know, as many youth or just people smoking in general, um the highest thing that was recently put out by the California Department of Public Health is that the highest most used product among youth now, those under the age of 21 is hooker products. So um it's interesting to see that. So I have definitely seen that of course also just tracking media, social media um posts and stuff like that. It there has been a shift of going towards hooker products among youth.

And what do you think the solution would be to that? for the solution for that is to of course for California laws and as of course as you know localities um law enforce um policies be including of hookah into their restrictions and their comprehensive TRLs and not be excluding it. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you for answering my question. Thank you. Are there any other speaker cards? Yes. Donna Colbert. Hello. Can you spell your last name, please? Hello. Yes, it's Colbert. C O L B E R T. Thank you.

Good evening, commissioners and chairman. Um, I thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Donna Colbert and I'm the executive director of Community Action Service and Advocacy, CASA, an organization committed to protecting youth and families from the harms of tobacco. And I specifically want to talk about uh tobacco retailers and not smoke shops. Uh, we recognize the health risks of tobacco and hookah, Samantha explained, are already well documented and understood. Uh, what's before you tonight is not a question of whether these products are harmful. It's whether the city should expand how prominently they are displayed in our retail stores. Tobacco displays are powerful advertising. The larger they are, the more unavoidable they become for young people. Research shows that youth who are regularly exposed to the to these power walls are twice as likely to start smoking and vaping. Moving from a fixed cap of 16 cubic feet to a percentage of floor area would allow large retailers to dedicate entire walls to tobacco. Normalizing these products in the same way as snacks or soft drinks in the re in the tobacco retailer stores. This is not just an advertising issue. It's an issue of equity. Expanding display space would increase exposure for those communities already carrying the heaviest burden of tobaccore related disease. Um, alcohon has been a leader a gold standard in tobacco prevention especially among youth and the existing cap is proven safeguard weakening the policy risks years of progress. We respectfully ask the commission to recommend no changes to the current display area restrictions. Protecting our youth from unnecessary exposure should remain a priority. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there any questions?

Okay, I'll I'll bite. I do want to ask you, it's more for curiosity just to get both views. Gives us a chance to make a a more educated decision. um going to a local grocery store, not given any local grocery store, and you pass by a large area that's within their parameters, going past there, is it any more significant than going to see a hookah? Is there a difference? I think for me personally, you know, I I'm thinking about when the gentleman was discussing how alcohol is is based on um square feet. When you go to a grocery store, that stands out to me, you know, not so much when I when I go to the local Vans here, their area is not super large compared to the whole store. So, that's my personal perspective. I don't have any statistics on that.

No, I I get it and it was a question on the fly. I appreciate it. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Any other questions for the speaker? Do we have any other speaker cards? Yes, I do. Rebecca Brandsteader.

Thank you for coming. If you could spell your last name, please. Glad you're sitting down. It's B R A N S T E R.

Thank you. My name is Rebecca Brandansteader and I also work for CASA as a public health advocate. And um first of all, I'd like to say that so much of our quality of life is determined in this meeting as residents and businesses in Elcohone. And I just want to thank you for the time that you take to make these decision these decisions that determine what our neighborhoods are going to be like. Thank you for that. Um, I'd like to address the proposed change um to the zoning code regarding allowing the grandfathered smoke shops to move. Um, they they were locked in as as Mr. Obby mentioned um when the when the code changed in 2006 and the proposal is that they would be allowed to move to one of four designated residential zone I mean commercial zones um office and professional neighborhood commercial general commercial and regional commercial I believe the ones and um they would as long as they they could move to those locations provided they had a greater separation from um restricted uses. Right now they're in the middle of residential areas as as as Noah pointed out and um that seems to be the the the issue that's that's there. So what we're talking about is definitely better um because because of those residential uses under section uh 1724070. But I will say that the minimum distances that are specified in 70 172 240 Z se 070 are solid and overall better for public health and exposure to children and youth. Um with only one exception again the minimum distance that is violated under the grandfathered locked in smoke

shops has to do with residential how close they are to residential areas. And I brought um this map and this again about smoke shops. And the dark gray is where a third of the residents are under the age of 21. So they're right in the middle of all of that. Um, again, I'm not going to fight this because it's better, but in a perfect world, um, it would be great to serve and serve the city best, I think, if, um, the new locations would also meet those minimum distance requirements. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Do you have any questions for the speaker?

No. Thank you. Thank you. Do we have any other speaker cards? No more speaker cards. Move to close public hearing. I'll second

public comment. Excuse me. I think I missed um Can I have um try again? There we go. The motion carries by unanimous vote of members present. Oh, so what say what comments? What do we got?

Commissioner, you need to speak. We do make the space bigger based on square footage or, you know, percentage of the square footage. It still has to be behind a counter. Correct. It can't. That's correct. Okay. Okay. wouldn't be self-s served. It's still Yeah, you'd still have to say I'd like a skull or whatever. Okay. Okay. Not that I'd chew tobacco. It's just what came to mind.

Oh, sorry. I was picturing a skull. I've been reading Hamlet. Um, well, I want to say that uh, hookah are pieces of art and there there's a lot of variety. It would be hard to take a sample size of that and compare it to a wall of cigarettes. Um, at the same time, if we were to say 200 square ft is the maximum, I don't know of any tobacco retailer who would fill that whole space with cigarette boxes. That would be jarring and I don't think it would increase any sales. It would just be a monolith. Um, but at the same time, I I kind of want to discuss the possibility of percentage of floor space with a maximum cap because I think uh a 7-Eleven doesn't need 200 square feet of display space. They couldn't fit that much behind their counter, but we don't need Walmart to have two aisles behind the counter. So, I think that would be the the direction I would tend especially for some of the larger retailers. And we'll just talk about cash and carry because that's the the problem that's been presented to us is they have a large store, they have a large supply, a large selection, and there's still 16 cubic feet. So I think uh the percentage with a capa maximum would allow for some variety without giving

without giving cash and carry a monopoly on space. Um, and also even though it's not a straight percentage like alcohol, it would still allow for some sizing differences between different stores without going too far overboard.

I agree. It's almost like a meeting in the middle. Instead of just changing it, it's we're going to cap it at the same time. The question I have for staff was to her point of I was her map that she put up and the grandfathering of moving of different uh smoke shops. So I drive around town and I to her point most of the smoke shops not your establishment so much but most of the smoke shops I see are in strip malls. Uh there's two that I passed by that are within walking distance. One is direct without giving their name. I mean kids walk to school all the time there. So her point is valid as far as moving. Can you speak to that a little bit because we've been talking about percentages, but now I want to talk a little bit about that point.

Sure. Um I think from staff's perspective, you know, we are seeing more demand at some of these uh underutilized um strip commercial centers where they're looking to convert into other uses. Um so like as an example at Broadway and Second Street, uh there's the former uh Conroys and so that location uh has a an existing smoke shop uh that was granted a conditional use permit and is in close proximity to residential. um for for that location. Um you know, it's it's a good candidate really to demolish the entirety of that shopping center and to redevelop that with something new. Um you know, we recently had Dutch Brothers Coffee going in down the street. There's been some demand for for new drive-throughs going in in that area. Um so the issue is is if that shopping center were to be demolished, that smoke shop really wouldn't have an opportunity to relocate elsewhere in the community. So, the thought process behind it is is that it's an existing business um locally operated and giving them an opportunity um if they were to be asked to leave that shopping center to move to another location as long as they are not um as long as they're improving their separation from um sensitive uses. So, you know,

oh the sensitive uses educate me. Is that state law or is that city? Uh it's it's our local uh municipal code and so it it requires a separation from uh residential religious facilities, um nurseries, courouses, uh playgrounds, um schools, and um other tobacco shops. That was 500 ft you said or 100 500 feet from residential and then um 1,000 ft. Okay. That that's good to have on the record so that way you guys at least know at least why some of this is happening. It's it's due to where we're locked in as far as the city ordinances or city codes.

To follow up on that question, if we were to say you can't relocate within any of the zoned already in you're allowed to move, but you have to move completely into the clear. How many places in Elone are completely in the clear? like 600 ft away from sensitive uses, 500 ft from residential, 1,000 ft from any other shop. How many spots do we have like that? I believe that's two in the vicinity of Parkway Plaza. Two. So, if we put one in a thousand feet away from that would disqualify the other one or Okay.

Yeah. So, it really does become it does become challenging to to lo to relocate a shop uh because of those requirements and and again because of East Main Street and Broadway being in close proximity to residential um you know it's it's very difficult to find a location along those corridors and so you really end up in the larger regional commercial corridors to meet those standards. We don't really have any places that are far away from residential areas, right? Yeah. Okay. I was curious about that because I was trying to think where do we have in the city that fits all of that.

Um so and this is only for existing businesses to relocate. This isn't a new business wanting to start up could follow these. They'd have to follow all this, which would mean a new business wanting to have a smoke shop or a tobacco shop would have to basically locate in Parkway Plaza and take one of very few opportunities to do so. Yes. So really the intent is to make sure that you know if a a shopping center wants to redevelop, there is an opportunity for that successful business that's been operating for for 20 years to be able to find a new location as long as they didn't worsen their conditions.

Okay, I understand that and I appreciate that. Uh move unless there's no other speaker cards, I'll move to close public uh comment. We already closed public comment. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We did already close the public hearing, but I would ask uh following deliberations and guidance to staff if you could uh reopen the public hearing and then we'll need to continue it uh to October 7th. You want to reopen it? Uh after the commission can finish their deliberations. Okay. Before we do that, I'm looking at the options. We're not really it's not really addressing so much as the relocations. It looks like it's just talking about the displays itself tonight.

Well, the relocation is the second part. So, there's two things we're discussing. One is the display area. The other one is the ability to relocate. Okay. And those are both we're going to provide them with feedback and then they'll come back. Okay. Again. Thank you. Okay. So, what say you?

Well, we talked about doing percentage with maximum capacity, but we didn't talk about what that capacity would be. And uh that's something that I would probably ask for more public feedback in the next public hearing, right? Where we be like, I know we got a suggestion of 500 square feet. And barring the very large hookas, that does sound like a lot of space since that's floor space, not cubic space. Um, but maybe we could have some suggestions from staff on what what a good maximum capacity would be, maximum area. Um, because I don't have a grasp of retail floor space. That's not my expertise. I can tell you how many roundts will fit in there, but not what the retail capacity is. Um, but I I think having a certain percentage and we didn't talk about what that percentage might be. I know you mentioned 3% at one point. Um, so I think I'm just saying I'm not sure that I have a percentage that I would be saying yes, this is the percentage and I don't also know what the maximum capacity would be. I think that for hookas having 16 square cubic feet diminishes their ability to display. And so I want to be mindful of that. At the same time, I also want to be mindful of not having ginormous walls of display for kids to go, "Oo, I wonder what that does." So, uh, I'm not sure if I'm providing direction or if I'm just gabbing right now.

I think I think I agree. Um I think we need to be I think it's very disproportionate to have a hookah to to a cigarette box. I don't think that really works. I think that I agree with you 100% going by a percentage with a cap, right? Mhm. Um but what about the second part? The to her point of the relocation. The relocation it's an improvement. I mean, right now, some of these are just around not even a block from residential areas and they're stuck there.

They don't have the option of packing up and moving somewhere else. And then the point of my asking where fits all the qualifications really, it's Parkway Plaza. So, this would allow them to move farther away from residential and sensitive areas and expand their business without going deeper into residential areas or having to be in Parkway Plaza. I don't think we want Parkway Plaza to be the hookah king capital or tobacco capital or whatever. And we already have the uh thousand foot away from another business. So, I think this is a good um allowance for those eight businesses that have cups that are currently locked in to too close. If they decide that it's worthwhile to move, they can find a better spot even if it's not the best spot. all group.

I know they said the 3% and kind of taking that into account. A 7-Eleven, okay, that's if they're 1,000 square feet, that's 30 square feet. It's really not much bigger than they have already. Plus, a lot of times their counters are in the middle. So, you wouldn't want to go much bigger because you got to see who's taken stuff from the liquor cabinet behind there. So, I don't think it'll make much difference in those instances. But regarding like a grocery store or something that are in Alcohon where they have, you know, 10,000 square feet. I don't think they're that big, but let's just say 5,000 square feet. That's a much bigger area, but then they're always behind customer service. So, how much can they really make bigger? You can't No one's going to I guess they could make a customer service counter bigger, but logistically speaking, I don't think this is going to make a huge difference in display unless someone wants to be really creative. Now, the movement of the stores just because there's not a lot of places that will be an improvement and would be economically viable, you know, let's go by the airirstrip. Like, I I don't know how many people are going to drive by the airirstrip because it's farther away from homes, but it's not really somewhere someone's going to go drive by to go get themselves some hookah or some cigarettes. Um, but it definitely is an improvement. I just don't know the viability of it, like how many people are going to actually move. But it would be nice. Um, but that's my only concern is I mean, how many people actually is this all 97 or just the eight that could move or or how how does that factor in?

It would only be the eight that are approved by conditional use permit that could relocate. Okay, then that makes more sense. Maybe a couple of them will move. Okay,

my final question is there a distinction between Yes, we have to be at the counter, but I have seen and I'm not saying what CD I've seen them in that they're on the counter. Uh that doesn't protect kids. It does to me that the spirit of the the ordinance is that's that's skewing the lines. It is there a distinction that it has to be behind the counter or are they allowed to put them on the counter because kids I mean are or walking are walking in there and the closer the more liable they are to um to want to experiment. I don't necessarily think that that's with every business. Matter of fact, I'm almost positive. But is there a distinction between on the counter and behind?

Um it can't be self-s serve. So, um, so you shouldn't be able to access it, uh, yourself. You should need a an employee from the store to be able to get the product and scan it for sale and then give it to you. So, they technically it shouldn't be on the counter unless it was a a large counter where it's not accessible. Okay, that was my final question. Since this isn't we provided feedback, but is there an action item other than that? That's

I think it would be helpful if we could have a motion um to reopen the public hearing uh continue the public hearing to uh the uh next planning commission meeting and then to um formally um guide staff to u move forward with a percentage um of the um retail square footage

and and with with a cap. And then we can further explore that as we dive deeper into the code updates and maybe um work with some of the speakers uh who had some concerns about the square footage and cap and look at um some more of those specific locations where um this might come into play so that there's more information for the commission to consider at the next hearing. So motioned. Do I have a second? I'll second. Motion by Commissioner Edison, second by Rude. Please vote.

Motion carries by unanimous vote of members present. Right. Do we need a second motion to continue the public hearing or was that rolled into it? Well, Commissioner Edison um simply went along with the uh statement. So, we'll we'll consider that one motion to uh address all three subjects. All right.

Can I ask one more quick question regarding these sites? Do we have like an average square footage? Because if we're taking in percentage of square footage, do we know like generally what the square footage is of most of these places? Because if they're all small, then I think the three or 5% seems feasible, you know, depending on the site. I know they have a larger store that's 4,500 square feet, but how many of these locations where they sell these smoke items are larger stores? Are they all just smaller type convenience store type things?

We inspected all of the tobacco retailers to ensure compliance with the code approximately a year ago to make sure that they met the size limitations. Okay. um we didn't take into consideration an analysis of of how many stores are are separate from kind of the convenience store model. Okay. But I think based on the direction from the commission, we can uh look into that and come back with kind of more information about the kind of uh I would cl classify it maybe as the middle area where there's some larger stores like Cash and Carry which spoke tonight um and uh and bring that information back for consideration at the next hearing. Thank you. Is there any other communications from staff?

Uh, no other communications from staff. Commissioners,

I have questions on two properties. Um, well, one's a property and one's a set of properties. Uh, do we know what's going on with the Department of Transportation properties? all the Calrans purchases that were for the 54 freeway on-ramp and I know that the Department of Transportation cancelled that project, but it seems like Calrans is still buying properties. Do we know what's going on with those? because they keep mowing the fields and we've got a lot of vacant properties in the city of Elone that are now owned by Calrans that could be developed into lots of houses.

Um yes, so um Calrans does still own many of those properties. Um they have been slowly taking those to auction periodically. Okay. Okay.

Um, so, you know, probably over a decade ago, there was the property behind Outback Steakhouse where the Park and Ride is located. Um, that one was sold and then redeveloped with housing. Um, I did get notification uh this past week for um two properties uh that CALR will be auctioning off and I'm trying to look up the date of the auction. November 7th. Um, so the November 7th auction um is includes two properties. Um so the first property is next to fire station uh 8. It's the property that extends between um Oakdale and Madison. That's the old mini golf course. Yes.

Um so it's a very irregularly shaped property, but that one is going to auction. And then at uh Third and um one in close proximity at North Third Street as well. Um so those are two properties that are going up for auction. They just they haven't done them all at the same time and so they just been slowly selling the properties but they're not acquiring additional properties. Okay, that's good to know. And then the other question was uh have we heard anything more on the uh town home development at Maine and Oakdale? I I saw the they're building they've got the frames going up for the little four houses on that corner next to school,

but I haven't even seen anybody surveying across the street. Uh there has not been any new submitts for the property um across the street. Uh the one that's at uh the corner next to the school um is under construction. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Glad I wasn't the only one that remembered the mini golf court. Okay, it's good to know. Anything out there for any other comments? Okay, then I move to close. Move to move to adjourn. I'll second. Motion carried by unanimous vote of members present. Thank you for coming.