City Council - Special Meeting

man Robertson,

thank you for putting this together. And um I want to thank um let y'all know that LGC, the local government commission is in the room right now, Miss Nice Canada. And I appreciate her for being here. So, but I want to be very clear. She said at at the meeting, this is a cash flow problem that must be solved by reducing expenses, not by increasing revenue in the short term. That's what's stated directly, Mark. You're not going to solve this problem in the short term with revenue. You have to solve this problem by cutting expenses. So, with that guidance in mind, I want to start um looking at what you presented to us today. And um one of the largest expenses um in the state audit that he released last Monday was personnel. But yet in this plan there's no furlows, there's no lay layoffs and no meaningful restructuring of salaries and benefits.

So instead we are cutting programs, reducing services and considering rates and rates on residents while leaving our largest cost category lar. This is not a balanced approach. Before we raise rates on our residents, Before we raise rates on our residents, we should be looking at furlows, personnel adjustments, renegotiation of contracts, temporary closure is necessary.

We asked for um I think Councilman Harris, we asked for um Allen Card, we asked for a menu of things we could cut along with the budget impact, the financial impact of those things. Um, Mr. Manager, do do we have that?

My understanding that you have it. We presented information for you for the last several weeks inside several months. And I stated at the beginning of this session is that this was just not the the end result. I think council member Blackwell stated that that we would have to make further cuts. And I also stated that uh when we start looking at the fiscal year 27 budget, which we should be in the process of doing now, we would be looking at restructuring across the board. So I don't disagree with the statements that you made under stating that we just said that literally about 5 minutes ago.

Well, I know I don't see it because we was talking about like the you have the Imperial Center which you've taken off. I'm happy that you all are but I asked for like the event center if that wasn't a freeze on that cuz I believe that's I wanted we all wanted to know what was the charge on that because we was getting it was losing $4 million a year. Um Councilman Dorch got it was losing seven and something million a year. So I don't know how we can make informed decisions if we don't actually have a menu alley cart. This is like a fixed menu. We want a alley approach where we have things that we can close and the financial impact if it's because this

it's affecting a lot of we putting it on the back of the citizens with the utilities and we're not doing the cuts that the LGC this is nothing political the LGC themselves we can't put that they say said raise race I don't see anywhere in that statement where they told us to raise utility rates so we have to look at a balanced approach and that menu will help this council make informed decisions of what's the financial impact if we take certain actions. Thank you, Mr. Yes. If you will, I'd like to recognize Councilman Walker, but I'll absolutely do you want you want to respond?

No, no, no. I was going to respond. I said this is a slide where I I specifically asked for what you just requested. uh is that the the issue that the staff has had over the last I'd say couple of days or couple of weeks is that you know we hear from individual council members but as a governing body I need to hear from the majority and give me directives. I don't have a problem doing whatever you say as long as it's legal and ethical. If you get four votes staff will implement it. My job is to carry out what you all recommend that we do as long as it's uh ethical and uh legal. So that's the menu. Tell me what you want to get cut and we will evaluate that. Thank you, Mr. Manager. I recognize Councilman Forest Walker.

So, I have two questions. See, man. One of them, what's the what's the saving cost for the longevity cuts? Thank you. Uh, right off the top of my head, uh, the initial longevity cost the city about uh over a million dollars. I think it was about 1.3. Uh, but again, uh, that information has already been provided to council. I don't have that today, but I think the new policy uh with the current amount of people that we have still for longevity, it would be a savings of about 500,000. Another question too. I know I see the imperial center was taking off with the summer camp. We are still going to have summer camp at this moment. Correct.

Uh that is not uh on the table at the current moment. I think uh in the budget we were going to have uh one summer camp available, but uh again that was not a mandatory service. So, uh, the current recommendation is to not have all the summer camps opens at this point in time. It's about $30 to $40,000 to host, uh, each summer camp. And being that it wasn't mandatory, the recommendation is not to host that. So, not the host, not even So, right now, as it stands, there's no summer camp. Uh, my understanding is that there is one one summer camp. Council,

thank you. Um, I think it's very important to represent not pieces of information but the whole uh bundle.

Um if you want to get technical which it sounds like we are the LGC the letter from the local governing government commission read you face a dual challenge. It says the first bullet says you must immediately reduce spending to improve your cash situation. This cannot wait. Your staff's estimates show that as of July 2026, you will no longer be able to make your debt service payments, pay your staff, or operate key services unless you make budget cuts. Now, the second bullet, which we're acting like did not exist, you must adopt an austere. That means

closely managed, no frrills, structurally sound, structurally sound, balanced budget for fiscal year 2627 that is built on accurate revenue estimates which we've been questioning and trying to understand. And that improves the cash position of every fund. Every fund. Every fund. Do y'all hear that?

Every fund. We have had extensive presentations in council retreat and now in the public that have showed us we're operating our utility funds in the deficit in the red. And we've been told by the local government commission which is the state that we got to cut the budget significantly. And that's why I asked the question of the manager, is it the beginning or the end? It takes time. We had this letter given to us within a week. And when we start asking departments about what to eliminate and who to eliminate, it takes more than five minutes to do that. It takes time. We've had more study time to evaluate if we're operating revenue utilities or revenue from utilities. We've had more time to figure that out and we've had commission studies and you've now heard what those studies have proposed. So from what I see, this is a phased approach. LGC has said and and the manager has reiterated and we got a letter to say so that on April the 1st. They want to see what this city council is going to do to reduce expenses and increase the revenue. And they're calling the manager, the mayor, and the mayor prom to stand before them to see if we got the guts,

the backbone, and the decision making ability to do what needs to be done.

Am I right or wrong? So what I'm saying today is that some of these questions that are being asked cannot be answered quickly. You can't throw around big numbers without understanding other implications. And if we going to have a debate, let's understand what we're debating and not confuse people with pieces of information and posturing cuz there's an endgame that somebody else wants to see.

I just want to see Rocky Mount stable. I want to see us not have to change and shift everything that we do and who we are. I want to see us operate in integrity. And I don't want to have to pay no more than I have to and not you either. And at the same time, we got to pay our bills. Just like everybody else. Thank you, sir. Thank you. I'll recognize Councilman Harris and Councilman Knight. Councilman Robertson, you have your mic lit. Is that something you Yes, I want to speak for I'll recognize you afterward. Council Harris,

I'm going to make my remarks uh short since uh Councilman Blackwell so eloquently stated what I heard from LGC last week as well as the letter we received. Again, we're at the PL.

I can't make it any clearer than that. I want us to put that car in reverse and get it as far back as we can away from the cliff. We cannot find I don't know what the additional revenues. I hate this. I personally hate it. I hate it for all of our constituents. By golly, I've been a part of this council for four years. I have skin in this. And I wish I could have done things different. I wish I could have spoken more broadly and and more passionately about this and this and this and that is my mistake and I apologize. We do

but by golly we are going to work to make this right and we will have to increase revenues. Last week I also heard that there is two sides in the balance sheet and there's an operating statement behind the balance sheet

since 2012 long before most of us on this council utility rates were not increased. Looking back, I wish they had done incremental small increases, but times the city council save our residents money by having the lowest possible bill possible. But right now, we have got to work together. We're going to look at continuing ways to see what reduces expenses can be reduced between now and June 30th. January, excuse me, July 1 is a new day and we going to continue to look at ways to reduce expenses, but by golly, I know some ways that we need to look at increasing revenues. One of them, we issue code enforcement fines. There's a lot outstanding in code enforcement fines. We don't have a staff right now to properly collect those. Let's hire a third party and pay them one/3 and let us keep 2/3. 2/3 of something is better than nothing. So there are ways that we can look at increasing revenues and we're going to look at that because at the end today in a few years I want us to lower our property taxes possibly. I want us to lower or keep level our utility rates. And that's what I'm committed to do. is a hard decision to make and I appreciate Denise Kennedy being back here today, but by golly, I heard last week if we don't have something to her by March the 24th, she's going to put something on the agenda for April the

1st to take over this city. She has given us some more time. She has asked as council Blackwell four people including our financial director to be at the LGC meeting April 1st. And I'm hoping that what we have done and I commend the staff all the hard work they have done over the last six seven days. They have been uh hard at work overtime in putting this together. We're not finished. They're going to continue to be revisions. As it said right there up there, we're going to look at revisions from what coming to us on the 27 budget. We're going to scrutinize those to see where we can make further improvements. But we're at the stroke of midnight council Blackwell. We got to do what's in the long-term best interest of this city. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank the council.

Thank you, Councilman Knight. I'll recognize you.

Yes. Uh thank you uh to the manager and the staff and to the LGC for being a part of our discussions for the last couple of weeks. And part of the discussion from the LGC was stated few minutes ago and post on social media, but the entire response and conversation was not because we didn't want to make it um political or even bring that out um in a way would be um to to drag the LGC into that and and thank you Rubin for clear and clarifying the rest of the response that council member Robertson read. I just want to say second Timothy 2 and 15 is a study to show thyself approval unto God. A workman that needeth not to be ashamed. Rightly dividing the word of truth. We know how we got here. You read the auditor's report. You read the minutes from 2023 to 2026. look at the council's videos of committee of the whole and council meeting of various statements that all the council members made. I'm very adamant about the former keep manager Ke Rogers. I said it in the public. I'm going to

end it today and say it again. Council members in Dumprey said early on he comes to a city this size or larger, it's going to be 10 times as worse. It's what happened in Dump. It was said repeatedly. reports and information. We asked frowned upon said to get a full report. So we know how we got here. We look at our financial start from 2023 from 115 million to now. Read the information rightly dividing the word of truth. And I appreciate the LGCB in view because we are elected to make decisions and they clearly stated if we don't make the decision

then they would make the decision. We gave our city manager the direction to bring us back a plan which was four scenarios. you recommended at least ser scenario three and four. Only one that um part of three and four I was really concerned about was not the only one but the interior center and I say that up front and I thank you for working away to keep that. I think that is important and it is a complimentary to our event center that brings thousands of people here to our city. Regardless of what people say about our city, this is a good city. Regardless of what has happened in the past and what's happening now, it's still a good city. and it complements our event plan in our children. I'm still concerned just a little bit about the summer camps because if we don't have those, that's a camp that started when I was young at South Rocky Mountain. They kept me out of the streets and we can see the violent crimes with youth. And I would like to see how we can at least keep those camps to keep our youth engaged. So again, the data is out there. If you really want to know the truth, stop reading this stuff on social media.

Oh, come on, man. Most of it's garbage to create division and brother division.

Just pick up the manual and read it. The last thing when you're doing your Bible study, you know, you just read the King James version or whatever you study or whomever you studied in the Bible, you always have a reference point. Some have King James version, the NIV, they have all these and then they have other reference to be able to rightly divide the scriptures. So I'm just using that as a parable today. We know what happened. We got the report. Read the report compared to the minutes compared to the videos and rightly divide the truth and where we are today. We have to make those decisions because of the failed mistakes that we did not oversee our city manager and the numbers that we were presented in budget sessions saying that we had money. That's how we got here. And I'm like Council Member Harris, I don't want to put it in reverse. I want to go over the mountaintop to the other side cuz we can do that. Thank you. Just the mayor pro tip. I just want to add um so we did mention about the summer camps and right now possibly only having one open. Uh but the the goal right now for a cost saving measure is to to just have that one open but continue to have the centers that that most of the uh camps are held to still have those operable. So it won't be like staffing a summer camp but kids will still be allowed to go to like South Rocky Mount, BTW, that type of thing. Yeah. And then the other thing I would like to mention with regard to our cost moving forward as we talk about uh adopting the revised budget for this current fiscal year and next fiscal year

I re reiterate uh what was stated in uh our financial audit and the audit that was done by the aud office of the state auditor. Our biggest expense is our capital and our personnel. So, while this plan uh we try to incorporate all of the things that were discussed over the last couple of years, uh a lot of what was mentioned in this presentation are one-time expenses. My goal is to work with council and staff on identifying the reoccurring expenses because that's where we're going to get the biggest bang for our buck with regard to savings now for the short term and the long term. And so we're going to have to look at restructuring the organization from top to bottom, citywide, and see what savings we can find by combining positions, eliminating positions, and seeing what uh we can do basically uh more with less. And then delaying some of the capital uh projects and only focus on the mission critical projects. And then if we uh review what we have coming in from a revenue side, hopefully we can continue to build back our fund balance and not delay before we get too far down the road. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Appreciate it. I appreciate that. Looking at cutting expenses, but um we can hear it straight from the horse's mouth because we help the LGC here. Um and Oh, she Nothing wrong. We have a great our great finance director that work with the LGC. if these the 15% because I don't want you to get caught in scared tactics or and that we have to increase the utility 15%. This is what the LGC told us to do. Um is the LGC recommendations for us to increase the utilities by 15%. And I would love to hear that from the LGC or either our finance director that work with the LGC because what I'm saying is the first thing that was read was to reduce expenditures. So if we reduce expenditures and one of the biggest expend expense and I know Bradley um you said that at the retreat is that um administration cost that administration fee right that's taking up a big portion of your money. So until we're able to look at that and what the LGC did say is we had structural deficiencies. So if we have a bucket that have a hole in it and we keep pouring water in it, that's not going to fix the issue. So we at a reset moment. So clear that the LGC said we that um raising revenue at this time is not going to fix the problem. I would love to hear so it's not anything political if the LCGC is recommendation of us raising uh utilities 15% or is that staff recommendation?

So uh I I will take the first stab at that and uh Cheryl please feel free to come up to the podium but the LGC is not going to tell any local government at the current state uh where they're not taking over the books on a specific percentage that needs to occur. that is the governing body's job based on the recommendation of professional staff and consultants. Uh that percentage is what was recommended by staff uh which uh most of the staff had outside help with consultants and that's what you have before you today. uh that percentage could be more that percentage could be less but again uh where we are now the financial audit that was recently conducted by our outside third party Morgan Jenkins uh showed where each of our funds had no fund balance including the general fund I think the general fund was at a negative 13%. And so you can't cut your way out of that. It has to be a multi-prong approach, which is why the first slide that I have up here says trifold approach. Reduce spending, amend the current fiscal year budget, plan for fiscal year 27. There's no silver bullet. If it was a silver bullet, we would have done it a long time ago. But we have to be realistic on our uh expectations. And again, as council member Blackwell stated, this is not the end. This is just the beginning. But I want to be clear that uh no outside organization uh from the state is going to specify what a local government percentage should be. Our percentages are based on the calculations that were presented in the financial audit as well as outside consulting. And Cheryl, if you want to follow up with that, feel free to.

Thank you.

Thank you. um talk a little bit bit about enterprise funds and um and what the expectation of enterprise funds are. Um when we've done the services, it is imperative from financial perspective that um that those services are um and that the revenues cover the expenditures. And um and as we've talked earlier today, there's there's two ways that um public um services are are provided. Um and a number of organizations, especially those who that only have water source um and storm water, you know, keep those within, you know, within the city. and um and then um other or then some organizations do decide to you break that out um and have a s a separate organization. Either way, uh the utility funds have to be self-supporting and they have to in include the services that are either provided um under the city umbrella um or se you know or separately um such as green utilities commission. um for a number of years I worked for um a public utility um the um it was um that public utility is Cape Public Utility Authority and it's in New Hampshire County and um and New Hammer County and the city of Fedville and city of Wilmington, New York County, city of Wilmington um were under some federal consent decrees that were very expensive because they were allowing sanitary sewer to go into um the the pristine water that uh that they have in um in New Hadmer County and what um so

they decided to combine their utilities um into a separate organization that only handled water, sewer, storm water and then the collection of um for some of the other city services separate organization. So that's separate organization had to have a CEO, they had to have finance director, they had to have all you all the services that some services that in that um those of us who choose to have our enterprise funds um under um the city or the county government, you had have to pay for. So um so it is imperative that um that we have self-supporting enterprise funds and they include those services that a non you know that a you know enterprise fund like Ringwood utilities or Cape for public utility authorities are having to pay for um would separately that is not it's not a savings that they said you once that happened. We We had I was there six years and there was six years of um lots of customers hating Cape Pure Public Utility Authorities because our rates went up every year and they didn't and they were not small rate increases either. But we had because we were forced to we had to you cover our services um in um the way that we are set up. we have some leeway in um in how you know how the how we make these self-supporting but the the things that I saw presented today um they have to you we we've heard we haven't raised rates since 2017

one or the other and um and the cost of providing you know services has gone up so rates cannot stay the same

if the cost of services goes up. The um the main focus um you know and some of the um discussions today has been the administrative cost. Well, the administrative cost are those type things that um our enterprise funds have to have. And um I look in our in the audit report, you can look at the general fund and you can see which fund which um departments have a utility administrative fee coming out of it. And um and it's and um some of the departments it's a large percentage. If they if um if the organization was standing on its own the 100% of that charge we need to suggest that we do um a a good calc you a calculation an independent you know a calculation of what the service fees should be for for each department. Um right as as one of our council members mentioned um the the less that the lower percentage of the um utility fee administrative fee that is paid by the enterprise fund has to be paid by taxes. It's but it has to be paid.

So is it safe to say it's another tax? It's the it's the it's it's no it's a it's a cost of service to the utility fund. And the reason I went through that my whole conversation about the independent ones. These are the type things they're have you they would have to pay for anyway. and and they include such, you know, like the um you the governing board, um community services, city manager, community, um communications and marketing, downtown development, business and collection services, technology services, network administration, um system administration, um project management office, um finance administration, accounting, purchasing, central services, um community development, neighborhood redevelopment, human resources, human relations, engineering, and public works. So, it's a that's, you know, it's a large dollar dollar amount, but it's covering a portion of the cost of each of those um departments that unless those departments go away, they got to be paid, you know, for somehow. But um so that's kind of what the administrative fee is. um which organiza which department should be the ones paying it. Um that's we should have and um and it should um it you should you there should be kind of a a formula that's developed that that you know it determines what percentage it is and um and it's mine you know suggestion and I believe it's you know you hope hoping it will happen that we have that done right now any of these that we pull out of the enterprise funds again being paid. So they had the you know the the bill has to come somewhere

and that's what I was saying earlier when I was talking about doing like the cost of service analysis. I think we need to you know have someone do that for us. Do what we can internally but just look at across the board citywide and you know allocate appropriate but again uh you know I don't think we can act swift and just say okay we're going to start from scratch and just pull the plug because as you just stated the you know the funding has to come from somewhere. So over the course of the city's history, uh they have relied uh heavily on the enterprise fund to support the general fund. But what that means is that the taxes were low. So regardless of whether you call it a tax or fees, the way local governments work, we get we get our revenue from from the government from the from the government at the federal state and from the citizens of Rockel.

Thank you for that because there a lot of those departments you name I don't think they what do they have to do with utilities? But I guess with what he said that they're paying for other departments. So that our utility bills are paying for other departments in the city. So if we was able to cut some of the expenditures expenses in those departments, then our utility rate may not have to go up as much. Is that correct? If cut the overall cost the sharing Yeah. the the amount that it's a shared expense.

It's a shared expense. Every department that she mentioned uh relies on each other. You can't separate one department from another. They are enterprise fund because that's the legal structure in North Carolina. But we're all a part of the city. IT department, for example, if Bradley's department, if a computer goes out, I'm not saying you don't have qualified staff in there to fix that computer, but guess who they're going to call? It is a water leak out there. Not going to call me the city man. Actually, I do receive separate calls with their water leaks, believe it or not.

But we're going to call the water department. We're all in this together. You can't separate an individual department out. It's a city. We're a full city and it's collaboration across the board. Now, what I will commit to is like Cheryl recommended looking at that cost service analysis to figure out how we can allocate the appropriate amount, but it's not something that's going to happen overnight. We have to have incremental change. what percentage of the utility funds are going to those apartments? I heard like the downtown apartment and the different departments you was named. Um because I asked him what's the he paying his fair share. Are they paying um what percentage is being paid from utilities to fund those other departments?

Yeah. Standing here at the podium, I can't tell you the percentage, but I just said say if you um look at the um the draft um audit report that you that you have um of which we expect to have the final draft tomorrow. Um but but these numbers haven't haven't changed. If you look at um in you know the general fund, you'll see a utility fee coming out of each of these departments and um and so that can be calculated. Thank you. Um Council Dress, I recognize you.

Thank you, Mayor. Um, council.

Okay. Uh, I appreciate you. You can you can sit down. I appreciate what you said and and um surrounding the admin service fees and I've been working on this even before I was on city council and and I appreciate the work that's going to be around that. Um, and I as much as I would like for it to be addressed today, we don't have time to address it today. I recognize that. Uh don't don't like that, but but it's the reality that we're in, especially with your finance department. Um and it would be nice if we had a consistent uh percentage moving forward um for each department and uh the impact it's going to have on our enterprise. And it sounds like that's what you're going to do. And that way each year we can determine um it's not pie in the sky which is what it seems to be. And so um I applaud the work that you committed and Mr. Mr. Manager what you've committed to do. So I appreciate that. Um earlier I think there was um are we going to act today or act on Monday? I I'm of the uh opinion that we need to act on Monday because um we need to first of all we haven't had public comment. Um and I I don't think there's much sway or we don't have many options quite honestly.

I mean we it's been Councilman Blackwell and Councilman Harris have certainly described that and I agree with what they're saying on that. um our options are limited and um and the time is is limited but I think we could at least wait till Monday and I would request Mr. Manager if you could because there's some things that we can vote on on Monday or today but I'll prefer it on Monday. That's that's my preference and we need that probably very succinct with how we make a motion. I know the city clerk will probably appreciate that. Yeah. Our goal is to have a revised budget based on the feedback that we get today and then you will have that available on Monday to vote on.

But also also the motion to make sure that we're legally compliant and everything. Yeah, I will I'll depend on the clerk and the city attorney for that. But I'm just focusing on the the line items. We'll have that ready for you. Whoever does it, I just think we need to make sure we include because some things can't be included until after we

um have the the public hearings and so forth. The one thing I will ask uh the mayor and the council consensus today that we include on Monday is that um each one of us receive aid and we receive a travel stipen and I think that we need to um suspend that um until we get into a position to where it can be reinstated. And I would like a consensus today um from this council and the mayor um where that can be included on Monday's um

agenda. I'm obviously in favor of it and um I think it's only right if we're asking the staff and we're asking the public to step up. That's the least we can do. This is not an interactive event. This is a business meeting. And at this time, I'd like to recognize Councilman TJ Walker. Thank you, mayor. Um, I know the manager was asking today, and I don't know if this was one of the items that, uh, Councilman Dun was asking that we uh, defer to Monday, but the consensus on core services, uh, the manager was asking for us to give him direction today. Was that what you were requesting? Was that one of the items you're requesting to wait till Monday?

No, no, no. I was saying uh get direction today because again uh as I stated earlier today is just the first step. This is not the end. It's the beginning and so we will continue to be evaluating uh operations across city uh citywide and looking for further reductions. I think I what will help me be able to make some decisions about this being able to associate um as one as we heard I got the enterprise uh funding percentages from each department but then also the um operating cost of each department. And I see listed uh what is essentially deemed core uh as far as your perspective enterprise obviously that's where community comes from the mandated and quality of life these would essentially be the only two departments that uh you feel right now are quality of life. Um I'm looking for direction for the board. This was just a a conversation starter, but that's up for you all to decide what you want. The only thing that is mandated by the state is the uh building inspections, but uh again, in in most cases across uh the state and the nation, uh things like parks and recreation, some of your quality life departments aren't necessarily essential. And I will add that when you're looking at a quality of life situation uh across the board uh from my experience in parks and recreation at the county and uh at the local government level from a municipality uh they are not uh intended to make a profit. Uh they are uh not even intended to have full cost. Those are things that jurisdictions do for the quality of life. Now, we are in a situation unlike other jurisdictions of our size where uh we can't afford to do a lot of those things. And so, unfortunately, we're going to have to uh make some difficult decisions. Uh staff will make some difficult recommendations and what you all decide on implement. But that that's really the purpose to kind of separate and get the

conversation started, kind of guide you to uh where we feel uh we can make some potential cuts. But again, at the end of the day, it will be uh you know, council dispersion. council midnight. One more thing. And so, uh, while staff will provide you with with all the information that you requested in a in a timely manner, some of the information you can already have because, uh, it's in the previous year's audit. So, the audit that we just done, even though it won't be exact, it will have the operation, uh, numbers for every every division. CN,

I'm sorry. I think councilor walk the main things too uh councilman doctors I know when you say like travel that's fine I think but I've since I've been on council we got called about 2720 red lobster when it closed down um highway down when it was knocked down. So you look when you going to economic summits you got to let them know what rocky mount has to offer. So I think if one of those opportunities come and somebody on council can go and bring them back. I know people say we got a lot of chicken spots but those will spike. Those was locations that people were complaining about. I know Red Lobster uh at one point I was running a lot a lot of homeless people was taking it over. So you look with when we go in the room I think me and TJ go in the room with Raising Kane and they agree to come. He not only agreed to knock it down where the city don't have to pay anything, but he was willing to knock the building down to put something there. People was complaining about it. So, it's not a blighted blighted area anymore. Same thing with Slim Chicken. You look at out the Rodeell Group, which is in my ward, people were saying with the land like you said you was going to do this, going to do that. We was able to bring investment back here. So I think if along the way while we are in this situation of even if the mayor is somebody who's economic developments Rocky Mountain something to offer and we can go sell it and make it bring it back and bring tax dollars back. I think that's key that we should be able to make that happen. So I think people sometimes think that counts with travels and it's like a party. It's not a party. It's work. But I do think of something that can be talked about, but also we have brought things back when we have traveled since I've been on council every single time. So that's my stance on that.

Councilman,

I just want to say uh again just the comment made about utilities. You know, one thing, you know, I hope hopefully we all respect veterans. been on the front line, especially those been out on foreign ground in Boston um to protect the lives of the American citizens so we could have freedom and this whole utility piece which started a little over 20 years ago with this council and before this council when they made the decision to enter into this agreement uh with the Kemper, but you have to know your history so you won't repeat your history. And I don't want the story to be said that the council raising utility rates on the backs of customers, the citizens because we're broke. We have seen the presentation We have tried to hedge off any increase with rate stabilization which we no longer have. Um, even with the rate increase, uh, if we vote on it Monday, we still are compatible to surrounding cities, towns, and that we have to raise the rates because of what Duke is doing, not just to Rocky Mount, but to everybody. You have to understand that is is if we go to the gas station when we leave here, you know, you got to pay if you want to drive, you know, you may go back next week and

the prices are going to go tremendously because of this form. You know, the the the the business owner of the gas is not going to absorb the cost. He's going to pass it on to the customer. So what I'm what I'm saying is that's not true that we just raising utility rates on our citizens because we need all this money. We need the money but then we are facing as Bradley said um that we have to pay for it ourselves. So I just I just want to be clear on that. You know, for some it's just saying, you know, we've been very and I know I've been very passionate about it and been fighting it and I just don't want that to be spreading across this city and that is not true. That is not true. Thank you.

Thank you. I'd like to take a moment of executive privilege here. We've been debating this and hearing information from our staff for the past 3 hours. And I want to say each member of staff, thank you for the work you put into this. This is no small task. Thank you, Mr. Manager, for coordinating all that. I would like some specific clarity from council as to whether or not we're going to extend this to Monday. However, I'd like to say one thing. Uh I appreciate the uh reductions that we have and I understand that it's not the menu that perhaps we would all like but I have seen nothing in the list of proposals to reduceenses that shouldn't be voted on today and implemented today. So I like to remind you that time is the one thing we don't have much of at the moment and execution matters. It requires that our management team execute anything we say go forward on. And expense reduction is just that expense reduction. Uh we can't go up on the utilities until we've had a public hearing which is scheduled on March 30th. I think that's right. March 30th.

And so at this time I'd like to entertain a motion that either we take this vote for the budget, the amended budget or these expense reductions either today or Monday. Before you give a motion? No, sir. I'm not recognizing you. I'm looking for a motion. So I got a motion. Council 52 take the vote. Monday. Monday. I have a second for Monday. Is there a need for discussion on this? Yes. What's this? Yes, sir. Council member Robson, I recognize you.

Well, if we're going to push it to Monday, I want to know, do we have input on some of these reductions? because I was just sitting with the homeless shelter and I told them based on what I was told that they weren't get any money and they have start setting up ways to close the homeless shelter. If they close that homeless shelter, there's going to be a number of homeless people out on our streets. So when I see reductions and I see some people still in here giving money, is there going to be a way that we can have input and these reductions and suggestions? Question.

Okay. Uh questions been called. All those in favor of pushing the uh this uh budget amendment or I guess reduction or proposal to Monday, please say I. I. All oppose like sign. Okay. Motion carries. The uh issue will be resolved on Monday. With that, I'll entertain a motion to go into close session. So move. Is there a second? Second. All in favor say I. I. We're now in close session. We're going to close session for economic development. I'm sorry. We're going close session for economic development.

Yes. Whistle water. Yeah.

Uhhuh. You already got this. So I got to I didn't say that. I'm lost.