Zoning Hearing Board - Regular Meeting

[laughter] I know. I know. I know. Yeah,

the building. They should have lined it up.

Don't worry about Just quick double check. with the ladies.

Yeah, I know. Yeah, I just want to see Quick announcement.

Yeah. I just want to make sure I know what you guys have. Do you know do you know if you have the actual land use appeal that was filed to city council like a set of copies? I don't mind going public. [laughter]

Get us on here on the system. Good evening and welcome to the uh Eastn Planning Commission meeting of the East and Planning Commission here in City Council Chambers on Wednesday, February 4th. Before we uh get started, I do want to welcome a new member to the commission, Mr. Shane Raymond. Um it's a pleasure to have you. Um you've taken you've knocked the average age of this group down by quite a bit and we appreciate having some fresh perspectives uh on the work that we do. So, welcome. Thank you. Um well, we'll go with roll call. Mr. Mangus, Mr. Shipman here. Mr. Hman here. Mr. Raymond here. Dr. Green here. Mr. Mr. Hutcherson here. Miss Wagner

here. Uh before we move on with approval of the agenda, we did have an executive session at the end of the last meeting. Mr. Shear, would you like to speak to that? Yes, thank you. Um we met after the uh conclusion of the meeting just so I could update um all the members um most of whom were uh named defendants individually in their capacity as the planning commission members in a what's called a mandamus action and um uh so we discussed that and that's attorney client privilege and um the um I I see you each had a packet this is excuse me this is regarding the Wood Avenue warehouse.

I'm sorry. Yes. This involves the Wood Avenue warehouse and the fact that the um uh developer who was denied approval of their land development plan uh filed a a mandamus action against the planning commission to compel them on the theory that there is no options, there's no discretion, that you just have that that it was incorrect to not just give the approval. Um the um that's what was filed. There's also been filed, even though you're not parties to this, a direct appeal to city council under the land use law under the MPC. And at the same time, I presume to protect the record, they filed a direct appeal to the zoning hearing board. If you read our our city code, there seems to be two potential options. Um and we um we'll we'll be determining how that proceeds yet. Um the the two things that that the members of the planning commission in the mandamus action were served. Uh uh one has to do with a request to assign one individual judge to hear these matters and the other is this request for an exemplary judgment would just be a um an accelerated procedure uh that the developer is seeking from the court. Um, just so you know, and it's against public record because it's been filed, uh, but the the solicitor's office is defending this and preliminary objections have been filed to the mandamus action, uh, indicating numerous reasons why it's believed mandamus is inappropriate and therefore should be dismissed based on the pleadings themselves. Um, so I just wanted you to be aware of that as far as these two. So the exemplary judgment request is just part of that mandamus action. And the the other the other thing you were

served was a request to have one judge assigned. We did have a conference when the motion was presented, but it was presented to a regular motions court judge. Uh having a single judge assigned to a case in Northampton County would only be the prerogative of the president judge. So the matter was going to be forward to the president judge. We have not heard back from the president judge. Just so you know, Northampton County is pro I don't know if they're one of the few counties left that doesn't just generally assign a judge to a case. Um and and is and when you don't have this one judge assigned, there's this tendency you file preliminary objections decided by one judge and then something else comes up, it's decided by another judge. So we we did not object to that to the concept of having one judge assigned, but we're waiting to hear. So um there's nothing you know we've entered our appearance on behalf of all the members of the commission and if there's discussions on the merits we do that in executive session because that's all going to be attorney client privilege but I felt this it's totally appropriate to just share this with the public as to where we are because there's nothing that's happening here that isn't on public record.

Thank you Mr. Shear. Um any any anything for Mr. Shear on that? Is this something we're supposed to do in public or Well, I I mean, I might Is your microphone on, Ron? No. Well, then maybe we better wait if if if we Yeah. If we're not dealing with with, you know, uh just a general question about process, we should we should talk about an executive session. Yep. Agreed. Fine. I'll wait. talk to you privately.

All right. Thank you. Um on the agenda, um we had a revised agenda placed at our seat tonight. The only thing I believe that was revised is a number eight was listed originally as a discussion on commission procedures and um it's moved to adoption. We were intending to we've we've already had discussion on that. Other than that, Mr. Magnus, are there any changes? No. Right. Can I have a motion to approve the agenda? So move. Second. Second. All in favor? Opposed? Okay. Then the minutes of the January 7th, 2026 meeting. Are there any additions or corrections? I have one correction. Okay.

Um on the second bullet point, my last name is misspelled. My mother would be upset. On that same bullet point, so is mine. So we're two for two. All right. You can. And fortunately, in the rest of the document, all worked out well. You can blame the system for that. I will blame. It's a system failure. I'm sure it is. I'll put the E and then I'll change the 10 I. Yep. Thank you. Notting eyes and getting. All right. Any anything else? Anything substantive? [snorts] Okay. Hearing none. Do we have a motion to approve the minutes? So move. Second. Wagner. Second. All in favor?

I. Okay. Uh we now move to uh privilege of the floor. Um, is there anybody from the public who would like to address the commission on anything that is not on the agenda? Hearing none, uh, we'll move to our first item on our agenda is land development for sevenstory mixeduse building at 101 South Third Street. This is a final approval. This has been before the commission previously. The applicant Surface London Development LLC has submitted land development plans proposing the demolition of a two-story commercial building for the construction of a seven-story mixed juice building located at 101 South Thirdrd Street. There will be 73 condo units which will consist of 15 one-bedroom condos, 36 two-bedroom condos, and 22 three-bedroom condos. The first floor will have have a 2542 ft retail commercial area. Also located inside the first floor will be a 43 space parking lot for the tenants that will be accessed from South Bank Street. The property is located in a downtown street corridor zoning district block class B where the proposed mixed use is permitted per article 59520B per 59520 F11. This application also required a special exception for the building footprint being proposed at 22,367 ft. The maximum building footprint in the downtown is 16,000 square feet but may be up to 24,000 square feet by special exception. Also, historic district commission approval for the design of the building is required with this application. The applicant received conditional preliminary approval from the planning commission on September 3rd, 2025. The zoning hearing board granted the special exception and the variances for the building footprint compared to other buildings on adjoining properties. The proposed building design is one continuous building. The primary facade of buildings longer than 30 ft shall be designed to look more like more than one building. No public plaza,

common areas, and a new building without a porch, portico, or stoop at their October 2025 2025 meeting. These granted variances and special exception are noted on the plans. The historic district commission recommended approval on October 14, 2025 and received the certificate appropriatives from city council on October 24th, 2025. These are noted on the plans. The proposed mixeduse building is permitted is a permitted use within the downtown zoning district. This proposal is appropriate for this location considering the area is both residential and commercial in nature. This proposal is consistent with the city's comprehensive plan objectives 1.1A and 1.3A, which encourages active uses and storefronts that enhance the city's downtown image as a place to visit and do business and prioritizes revitalization of vacant lots throughout the city. Therefore, the submitted plans titled mixeduse development appear appear complete enough to support conditional final plan approval with conditions.

Thank you. Um, would the applicant like to make any statements, any comments to us beyond what's been said? Sure.

Hi, Kevin Surface. Um, with the, uh, development team. Um, just been a while since I've been in front of you. Um, just want to give you project updates. We've been hard at work since since, uh, uh, we were last in front of you and in front of city council and HDC. Um we are um as you know the one of the first major condo developments in quarter century in the Lehigh Valley. Um we've been working hard and we are um opening our sales gallery which has a model unit inside of it um at 16 center square at the former Wells Fargo Bank. Um that opens February 11th um and we're welcoming um potential buyers to come in and and kicking off pre-sales on February 11th. Um to date we have almost a thousand people signed up for our list with interest. We have 127 um tours already scheduled. Um so we're booked from now all the way until March already. Um so we're seeing a ton of interest which you know we're all fingers crossed hopeful for. Um but um yeah, we're we're anxiously ready to get started if the ground ever falls out. Um so yeah, just uh that's the update. These are all for sale, not for rent.

Correct. I Mr. Shipman, you got to start it off. Do you have any other questions? Why don't you I'm sorry. No, it's all right. You can you can start. No, I'm I don't have any other questions. Okay, Mr. Hileman, are these all if you don't sell enough of them, will you build the building anyway? Um, I don't anticipate that problem based on the interest that we've had. Um but um I mean we do have some minimums for financing. Um I anticipate exceeding those within the first month. Back to my original question. Bill, I don't think your mic I don't think your microphone's on. Now it is. Yeah,

now it is. So back to my original question is if you don't sell enough of them, will you not build the building? Is that possible? Um it's possible. I don't think it's it's realistic. Okay. You know, certainly if nobody walks through that door, the bank isn't going to say, "Here's $30 million." And and and and I know we went through this before. Could you explain the parking thing one more time?

Yes. We have 40 parking spaces secure in this lot. There's a parking agreement in place uh with the city of Beaston. And then we have parking in place inside the building on the first floor. Um in addition to that um we are allowing tenants or residents to the option to install car lifts. So you can install a you know a car lift so you can park your weekend car on top um and then you can pull out you know take your weekend car out. So you technically have ability to have two cars so we can double our parking spaces. Wow. So that actually account for two parking places. um planning or uh planning doesn't look at it that way, but we are you know that's the way we're okay

we're looking at it. Is this relatively new? I don't ever remember. This is this is where we've taken ideas from you know other cities other urban environments and said hey what can we do here? Okay that's all I have. Mr. Raymond no questions. Mr. refresh my memory on the roof of the uh building.

Yes. So, there's a um a second floor um which is the roof of the parking garage, a portion of the roof of the parking garage that is our landscaped courtyard. Um so that's accessible to all the residents in the building. That's, you know, off grills. Um It's being um programmed by an architectural uh architectural landscape architect. Um so seating areas, fire pits, all that kind of stuff on the elevated portill. And then the very top of the building itself, very top's unoccupied. Have you looked at putting solar panels up there? I have to ask the question.

The the economics aren't there anymore. The the these um grants or subsidies just just like they did a couple years ago. Different administrations. That's a sad sad sad state of Okay, thank you, Miss Wagner. Um, back back to the parking point. Um, absent the lifts, you are already in compliance with the zoning requirements. Yeah, we exceed. Right. So this is just a a measure to meet the needs of your residents. Just operations.

Yep. Okay. Um when we when you met with us in September, there was another uh item that's not um at least I didn't see it here. Um regarding easement approval that you had to get approval to reduce the you know to reduce that. What what what path did that take? Yeah. So we um we worked with the city um Our attorneys worked with city solicitor. Um I've signed it and um I guess it's going to the mayor for signature. Okay. Um so it's I don't know if it's reported yet to be honest. The attorneys have been handling that. Mr. Shear, are you aware of any of this? Um are you talking about the easement for the sewer? Yes.

Um yeah. No, we're actually we talked about it this morning. Um uh yeah, we we've been it went to city council already and I believe city council approved it. Okay. So, so that the fact that it's not listed here is a another condition is is not a concern for us. Well, if it wouldn't hurt if we just put in there confirmation that the easement has been uh agreed to and and recorded. Okay. Because I'm not certain. I remember we discussed it. I remember was on the agenda, but I'm just not certain how it what the conclusion was.

Confirmation of easement approval. Is that how you uh the easement was uh approved, executed, and recorded? Executed and recorded. Yeah, I'd imagine they Well, actually, I don't know. I don't know if we would record it right away. You may wait for the plans. So, it would just be it just be approved and executed. Yeah, approved and executed. Okay. Um, other than that, and congratulations on the uh, you know, the other approvals you've received from the historic commission and and uh, and from zoning. U, are there any other changes beyond the ones that we uh, noted? You know, any other changes to the plans of any substance that we should be aware of? No.

Okay. All right. Thank you very much. No, I'm sorry. I do have just a couple other questions. Okay. out on the plans before this was undertaken. Uh were you active in the scouting to find out what was available in the city? Yes.

And do you have any information or opinion that you can offer us? Do you know how many how much space in the city there is for these kinds of units that you're building? Um we didn't particularly look at um available um spaces but um we did look at available um owner occupied units. Um this one project this single project will increase owner occupied units in the city of East by 1.5%. Just one project which is which is by by by the result that you're building to sell.

Correct. Y My question is, did you observe or and I don't want to hold you to this and you may not want to even give an answer. Is there room down here for more of these buildings? Um, it's going to be mostly infill. Um, and um this this was one of the last larger lots available. Um, when when did you find this lot? Do you know? About a year ago. Who was the owner of that? Uh, that was the Benners. If you remember, they were looking into the 12 story, I believe.

Thank you. I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'm just trying to get an idea where we are. How much are we going to look at? Yeah. Well, if this is successful, we're going to be looking for some more. [laughter] Okay. Thank you. All right. All right. Thank you very much.

Thanks, there any member of the public who'd like to speak on this application? Seeing none, uh we have a staff recommendation um that the submitted plans appear complete enough to support conditional final plan approval with conditions. Um recommend we add the confirmation of easement approval uh being being approved and executed. Um would somebody like to make that motion or any other with that addition I that you just mentioned I move that we uh adopt a resolution.

Thank you. Second. I'll second. Discussion. All right. Hearing none. Um go to roll call. Mr. Shipman. Yes. Mr. Etches. Yes. Mr. Raymond. Yes. Miss Wagner. Yes. Mr. Hileman. Yes. I will vote yes as well. Uh you have uh you have the conditional final approval. Best of luck with the project. We look forward to what you do. Appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you.

Uh next on the agenda is the uh determined blighted properties. Um before you there are eight determined uh blighted properties that the vacant uh property review committee recommended that be uh blighted. So um I'm going to group those eight together like we usually done in the past just to vote on the resolution. Can I can I ask a question about that since you're trying you're clarifying that? Yep. Maybe I don't know if I mis printed pages, but I found the eight and then there was apparently a ninth one that has a resolution without that. Yes, that's a certified one. That's okay. Oh, that's a certification. That's a certification as opposed to a determination.

Yeah, that was before you guys in April 2024 and you Okay. You know, voted on to be determined. And and to be clear then, the determination is the the first Yes. the first the first date and the criteria is why it was determined determined brided just want to make sure I was clear on that okay thank you y no problem certification that you need from us is contained in the whereas clauses and the now therefore yes all right so you're you're u combining the the the eight determinations yes okay is is there anything that you need to tell us about those

they just met the criteria to become become blighted um once they're determined they'll get a and they'll have like 30 days to respond and uh tell us if they're going to make any approvements or try to fix it. If not, then we we'll take it back to the vacant review committee for certification. Okay. Um just for uh my own sense of protocol and in case Mr. Weber's an owner of one of these properties, the the the properties are at 127 South 9th, 159 an Street, 623 West Lincoln, 625 West Lincoln, 815 Spruce Street, 1052 Butler Street, 1071 Bushkill Drive, and 131719 Lehigh Street. Is any owner or person of interest here like to speak? Not not at all. Okay. Uh then we have um we have eight resolutions that are being grouped uh by staff into one. Do we have a motion on that or any other on these eight determination properties? I'll make a motion that the uh lighted conditions condensed in not condensed but be adopted on ba on mass and these are the determinations the eight determinations. All right, Mr. Shipman with a motion. Do we have a second?

Second. Motion and second. Do we have any discussion? Okay, on a roll call. Mr. Shipman, yes. Mr. Etches, yes. Miss Wagner, yes. Mr. Raymond, yes. Mr. Hileman, yes. I will vote yes as well. And then the one I was questioning is the C certification. Yes. Uh, like I said before, that one was before you in April of 2024. You, uh, made the motion to adopt to make it determined blighted. Uh it's been almost two years. Haven't heard a thing. Nothing's changed. It went back. It's going to be certified right now.

Is is that I I I know we've we tend to have these where they're grouped and we get them and then maybe a year later or a year and a half later we get another group. So I'll excuse me if I don't recall this, but is this a typical length of time between determination certification? No, I think um what happened is because of the directors being turned over, it got lost in the system for a little bit. Okay. So, but you know, and their code officers are out all the time, they see it. They know nothing's going on. So, it was reported and then Dwayne took it over and I think it was last October that it was the was in front of the vacant review committee.

Okay. Very good. Um, do we have a uh a motion on on this certification of bladed property at 1073 Lehigh Street? First I should ask, is there anybody here? Okay, seeing none, do we have a motion? So moved. Second. I'll second it. Motion and second. Any discussion? Roll call. Mr. Etches. I. Mr. Hileman. I. Mr. Shipman. Mr. Raymond. Yes. Miss Wagner. Yes,

I will vote yes as well. Okay, next item on the agenda is the adoption of planning commission operating procedures. Uh these have been discussed at the July 2nd, January 7th meeting. We've taken input. Uh they are in um I think a a final form. Um is there any further discussion here? Okay. Hearing none, I would like to make a motion to adopt these 12 items as the operating procedures of the East and Planning Commission. I would like to have these placed on the reorganization agenda at each January for review and readoption and then to have them posted on the planning commission web page for public access. Uh so with those three points, that's the motion.

Second, second by Mr. Etches. Any further discussion? On a roll call, I will vote I. Mr. Etches, I swagner. Hi, Mr. Raymond. Hi, Mr. Hileman. I Mr. Shipman. Yes.

Okay, those pass. Thank you very much. And uh our final item is a discussion on data centers. Um between our last meeting where we introduced this discussion and this meeting um LVPC uh offered a training on their new uh guidance document uh on industrial land use. Uh I know Mr. Raymond and I attended the evening session along with uh Councilman Graziano. Was anybody else able to attend that day? Yeah, I'm scheduled to go on the 11th. Okay. All right.

I think Bill as well. I I mean we I guess we'll we can talk a little about it. I think the um having been to a few of the trainings, uh the work as they described, basically showing us the work that they've done was uh I thought excellent. Um it it is really a very useful guidance document. Now, it is focused on industrial land use, which we don't have many industrial land use zones in in East, but the ones that we have um are certainly up for people to take a look at and to consider doing something with. So, I think that's uh uh it was a really useful training. Um, we also heard from a uh planning commissioner from South Whiteall. That was one of the um model ordinances that we got a chance to look at. I think there was some confusion um on whether this and I think it even says it in the minutes. The minutes aren't confused. It was stated that it was potentially this was a model ordinance that was being developed. It's not a model ordinance. It's guidance for for producing model ordinances. Um, and considering we've had, you know, a most recent and high-profile industrial land use case before us with the with the warehouse, my my mind kept turning back to that and thinking about some of the things that um something that I brought out during the time of of the discussion was yes, this is considered a warehouse and yes, this is an approvable use, but it isn't the same use as warehouses were when they were produced, when they were, you know, when when the zoning was created 40, 50 years ago. This kind of use isn't it's not even the same use as when it was a pigment plant for all those years where you might have had, you know, 25 trucks in and out. We know

this is going to have considerably more than that. I'm not relitigating that. What I'm saying is it it a lot of what was being talked about was fresh in my mind because it was very similar to what we've gone through. Um and so the talk about data centers, this was just one of a number of what they referred to as emerging new land uses, the different ways. So that example of the warehouse and an example of data centers, I think as we probably know because we're reading about them all over and how important they are to, you know, future economy and AI. They're not what data centers were 30 years ago. They're very different. So, I think it's really timely that uh LVPC developed this. I think really helpful. I would encourage you to if you can't get to one of the trainings, just simply go to their website and look at the guide. It's very user friendly and um so I just thought the training was was really sharp. I don't know if uh it's

just a signal. Yeah, that's emailed to us. Uh yes. Yes. Gotcha. And it says Lehi County on it and it was explained to me that they did a previous guide on a different land use a few years ago and it was based on Northampton County. So this is intended to be applicable for the entire Lehi Valley. So that's that's was neither here nor there. Um

Mr. Chairman, I think your comments [clears throat] are most apppropo. I quite frankly was not aware of them until they came up here. And I've been I've been trying to do what I call wifi uh checks and and I understand that the demand for electricity, water, all the air conditioning, all the demands for other kinds of power are astronomical with these places.

Uh they run all the time. and they demand enormous quantities and I can see now where uh people are are afraid the federal government's afraid of them actually. So [clears throat] I think it's you're wise to to bring this up and to make us aware of it and I'm going to try to get to the meeting a meeting with the Lehigh Valley Planning Commission. Well to be thank you and to be fair I went to the training but Mr. I think brought it to our attention. Mr. Raymond, anything you wanted to comment on on the meeting itself? And

I mean, outside of just the fact that I thought it was really useful to see the potential impacts and everything, too. There's the guide's very helpful and actually outlining exactly, you know, topics to consider. And it's also broad enough that we can make it to what we need for the city. It's not just a a black and white here's what you need to do. It's it's multiple to what we need and what we think's best. know knowing that we're going going to be going at some point in the near future next couple of years to a review of our comprehensive plan. It was also instructive that they moved from comprehensive plan guidance on comprehensive plan to guidance on zoning rigs to guidance on um salo uh you know where that goes. So it's so it's really comprehensive I think and uh again it's I think worth your read. Um something else I took away from it was this discussion as I said there were multiple emerging uses. I just you know data centers is one um warehouses as fulfillment centers as opposed to you know the old warehouse was just a place you stored goods and fulfillment centers do something quite different which is why the use even though they're declared that is much more intensive. uh advanced manufacturing centers was another one. So there were there were maybe eight or nine and um guidance that the planners uh the woman who presented the u the evening talked about and one of the things that struck me was having having an approach that's a mix of generality with specificity which sounds vague but you know when we looked at those model ordinances they were very specific there was you know six seven pages pages worth of specificity um to define what should be looked at with a data center.

Doing that for every industrial use isn't practical, right? So that's that's getting too specific. And so her point was that some of your uh land uses may be fine just being general. You don't have to take fine tooth comb and you know because you look at data centers you go well what else is out there that we should be looking at? And uh so I I thought that was interesting and it's a conversation I would like to pursue and and will pursue with uh Councilwoman Rose because she had announced to us that she is working on language for a um for an ordinance. So I know we've looked at models, but she she is going to be actively working. I assume with staff has she spoken yet or is potentially going to work? I know she she had intended to do some broader work than just her own work.

Right. Right. I I believe she once she gets what she needs and then she'll come to us and then we we'll you know look over it and you know see where we can incorporate it into the zoning code probably within supplemental standards. Yep. Is probably the best way to do it just like we did like warehouse we put you know all list all the things that they have to do and meet you know the conditions they have to meet. Yeah. And uh I think in our code um Mr. Tilman had pointed us to the uh data and information centers or something that that's that's another a use that he felt it probably fit in. Right. Right. What we'll probably do is make it its own definition too, you know, so it's not like grouped like

like it's like a mixed uses an A12. We'll put it in there underneath the industrial stuff. Make it its own give it its own definition. So, and then you know put it where it could be a special exception.

Great. Great. So I will also have that conversation with her about are are there any other industrial uses there that you know we think might deserve some more specificity and so it may not may maybe they'll come back with something a little more than data centers but those certainly are hot topics uh out there a as as I look through the um the presentation that was done by South Whiteall and the kinds of things that they put into their um their piece they mostly made sense and I think they were things that were under our consideration. ation when we discussed when when the warehouse project that the recent warehouse project the one that stood out that was not part of that and as Mr. Shipman said is a is a huge part of data centers is this draw on utilities on water and electric in particular. Um notice that that never came up in our discussion of the warehouse. Not that not that this fulfillment center would have anywhere the draw of utilities that a data center would, but certainly more than we might have expected a previous warehouse to. But yet that wasn't part of our thinking on that. So, that's just an example of like some things are things come up that you're not you're just not really thinking about and I'm glad that uh I'm glad that uh uh that we're at the point where we're being proactive. So,

well, and if I may

Yeah, please. No, it's open discussion, please. I think that the [clears throat] I think you raised a good point in terms of being specific but also being general in the coming iterations of technology whether it's a data center or a uh robotics operated manufacturing center or whatever. there may be an opportunity to look at this um on a general basis um based upon a projected um energy consumption model. So that um as part of the definition of a project there would be a projected megawatt usage for lack of a better term um for the project to sort of put that piece in perspective. Um, and so I think is that as this progresses along um, really just from a standpoint of uh, I'm sorry, I'm still I'm seeing all the pictures in my head from the presentation from the folks at Palmer where they were talking really did it the Palmer presentation, not the ordinance itself, but the presentation did an excellent job of putting into perspective uh, how many megawatts we're talking about. why Pennsylvania um has so much potential for these kinds of uses because of our because we operate in an in energy surplus right now. And um starting to think about what kind of a of infrastructure is required to service a facility that has in one example 10 20 megawatts of power that's required uh in order to run the facility. So, as we're starting to think about, and one of the things, of course, I liked about the uh the Palmer presentation was that they started to talk about uh u offsets, energy offsets

being part of the requirements for some of these buildings. So that um in in the case of the presentation from Palmer, they actually talked about uh requirement for buildings to be solar ready um and to offset the um how do we say it's the non-server elements of the building itself. So uh the the building would be a net zero on energy consumption for everything except the servers which are are the big drivers in terms of the servers and the coolers which are the big drivers uh in terms of that. So I liked the idea of thinking about this holistically from a um some sort of mandate to offset some of the impact on the infrastructure. I also but I also think that to your point can that the uh that there may be a general utility consumption element that we haven't really bothered to take a look at that could be helpful to us in the future as we look at whatever the next whackadoodle thing is that comes down the pipe. How does the energy supply grow with the data center? I think is the question. What are they going to do up there on

that? That's why that's why they want to open reopen Three Mile Island. I mean, you basically have to open up your own nuclear plant. That's what I thought for the center of Pennsylvania. But when you get closer to the urban areas out across the river, we don't have generating stations here. No. No. No, you'd have to take over Greenland and start using their water supply and [laughter] so and solar energy. Mean Iceland back and forth back and forth. No, no, actually I mean Greenland, [laughter] Iceland. Iceland. Oh my. Iceland has the steam though.

No, but one of I mean one of the difficulties you run into is not only the power that needs to be on site. How do you get it there? Yeah.

Right. And the point that was made in a couple of uh places in in the in the literature that I looked over talked about the infrastructure and the transformers that would blow out trying to to to bring that much power into one location. Now there are plenty of engineers out there that are smart enough to figure out ways to do this sort of thing. not um the potential particularly you know I mean we're east um and I what I did appreciate was the tiered approach of looking at how what a data center was a microenter basically being you know in a bank or uh even in in on a mobile unit and then stepping up from there all the way to a mega campus um that often needs to be built right next to a power plant. So I do think the tiered approach in terms of looking at uh what could be put in place from a data center standpoint is important, but I also, you know, I sense the, you know, the uh the uh getting too specific. We end up with a code that's that that's as heavy as the lawsuit that we got. So I think if there's some generalities from a consumption standpoint like as I mentioned on on utilities that can help us a lot. I do think defining some different thresholds in terms of what would be considered a data center is is is good. So I think we can be specific on some of these things particularly where we have some some uh visualization of what we're talking about. Um that could be helpful but again the generalities I think will help us in terms of that as well. The key is to really have tools to properly evaluate uh not only evaluate a project but on but clearly understand the impact on our community. That's what we're here for.

Yeah. You know, so uh uh I think that uh uh I don't want to beat it beat it to death, but I think that that that those pieces could help us a lot.

There's a lot ordinance right now that is pretty good to um you know towards like a data center. Um it's like the document 99 that we would have to get that that's the letter that comes from the energy companies that tell us all the power and everything that is required. And um I think that it would be important to like participate in act 14 notices as well when it comes to something this big

and and and you're referring to, you know, specific putting those kinds of specific things into some of these specific uses. The our ordinance already requires the document 99 from the power companies. We got to make sure we demand it, right? Okay.

Anything Anything else? Um I don't I don't know if we're ready for for this this evening. We we certainly put this on as a discussion, but um I'm I'm wondering if the commissioners think that our end goal may be I mean, ultimately, city council writes ordinances and writes zoning changes, but um whether we think that they'd be looking for us to continue to do some research and provide some kind of recommendation with maybe some specific points to it. Things like um Miss Wagner's point about we already have some good things in code. We ought to make sure that we're, you know, utilizing all the tools we already have. like the idea of a more general statement on many of the larger projects on utility utility or energy consumption standards. Um things um you know so things like that um whether we should come up with a recommendation that says you know ple you know please consider ABCD as you move on. Are others of a mindset to do something like that and make some kind of recommendation to city council? Is that is that our proper role here as you see it?

I I believe the planning commission certainly within its province can introduce concerns like this. Also keep in mind we have a liaison Crystal Rose who comes to all the long meetings. So I guess she figured she she was entitled to whatever whatever it is. This is if you're going to miss a meeting, this was the one. But um I I think it's a good I I think you could do this. And I think what would be the best way to move it forward is to speak to council person Rose and discuss the idea of having a committee meeting, a city council committee meeting in which commissioners would also attend and be part of a discussion on some of these changes. And that would be, you know, then then city council certainly can uh tell staff that this is what what they're looking for as far as drafting uh some, you know, some ordinances now rather than wait for the the bundle of our long awaited zoning amendments.

I mean, my only concern on that though would be and I and and I I agree with you. So, I think it'd be great to be uh involved in in uh a focused workshop or a committee meeting uh in terms of their development process. But I also think it might not be bad for us to even if it's just in bullet point form, offer some thoughts that um just so they don't get lost in the in the in the discourse, some thoughts uh going into that. if that makes any sense.

Just imagine the energy that's being used in this city now compared to even 10 years ago when you just walk up the street or lights up. I just had to replace all my appliances last December. I bought like a little device called a TING and you would be surprised like how many times we have brown outs. We have a lot right now. just wait. They're going to be fired.

Any other any other thoughts? So, I I threw out the idea of potentially making a recommendation, you know, like a something formal that we vote on with with some bullet points and Mr. Shear brought up the idea of in in its place or or in addition to looking at attending a a committee meeting. Yeah, I I I would say it would be in addition. I think that you would create this whether it's a a series of bullet points but then coordinate with with council person Rose how your input how the commission's input can be shared directly with city council and to me that step should be the committee process.

Okay. Well, I will certainly take it upon myself to speak with her about that. Um but shall we keep this on the agenda for the next meeting? Yeah, sure. Okay. I also think, sorry, let's go ahead to to possibly have a checklist for anything that Lehigh Valley Planning Commission comes back saying is a an application of, you know, regional development. We definitely need a better process developments in the valley.

Um, yeah, we'll change that um for next instead of discussion, it's called recommendation that their our intention might be to come up with a recommendation. And in the meantime, I'll I'll do as a council suggests and meet with councilwoman Rose and see if that's you know if that's something that will be helpful along with participating at the committee level. Okay. Right. Thank you. Uh for the good of the order, anything did you want us to all meet for any questions dealing with the pending litigation or do you want Mr. Shipman just want to talk to me? I'll just talk to you. Okay. Not Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Thank you. I mean, do you feel there's anything we need to know?

No, no, we're we're nervous. I I don't want to say we're we're in control because we're not we, you know, unless they appoint me the judge. Um the the uh but but we're we're doing what we have to do at this point.

Uh Mr. Chairman, I have one thing I would like um I would like us to consider Adding to the agenda for the next meeting, uh the development of a resolution [clears throat] uh for city council to discuss um compensation for the planning commission under the municipal u planning code section 202. Non-employee planning commission members may receive compensation fixed by the governing body, which would be city council, not to exceed the rate paid to members of that governing body. Um there's a lot of work that goes into this. Obviously, we can get sued. Um and um it has uh I think I've been on this now for five years. Can't remember, but it the amount of of uh time and effort that's required to do this job correctly um has uh increased exponentially year to year. So, I would like to put that on our agenda to discuss a uh resolution for city council to consider uh compensation for the planning commission.

Now, do you know I I do not know offhand what the zoning board members get paid. I think it may be like $25 a meeting or something. I think they get 5,000. No. No. Zing hearing board. Um, the chairman gets 35 a meeting and everybody else gets 25. $25, which $25? Yes. Yes. Well, whatever. Yes. Yeah. You're not you're not getting more than the zoning hearing board. I mean, you you have every right to just get Listen, nobody gets involved in any of this stuff to make money. My point is there's a lot of effort that goes into this and and we should be compensated for it.

That's all. So um um proposal to add to the agenda. Does anybody have objection to adding that discussion to the agenda? No objection here. Hearing no objection. If we can add that to the uh agenda, Mr. Mangus, and then we'll uh we'll take it up then. It up at the meeting. At the meeting. Yeah. At our meeting next time. Well, I tell I tell you, you're short one member right now. And if you get it up, if you can get like $25, $35 a meeting, I'm sure you could have a flood of people asking to be appointed. And and at the door, considering that I will probably be here only one more meeting before my retirement, this could give me something to look forward to. You're just trying to make

but but I'd have to wait a whole year because I'm not allowed to take a job that gets compensation. Um and we will after that point, Mr. Mr. Sher, we will sincerely miss your delaying tactics keeping us from adjourning, which we will do now. Motion to adjurnn. So move. Second. Second. Yes. All in favor? I. We are ajourned.

Okay. compromise. I'm just I'm just sad that I don't have my Let me shut this in my dining room. It's in my dining room as well. I got rid of the the big rolly tree trunk. But I still have a lot of the other stuff to get rid of. I saw your message. Not really. I saw that. I was like, spare no expense, man. [laughter]

Take it out of my bag. [laughter]

[laughter] and look like I said they're not here to make money. The point is it's a lot to do and [laughter] you know I'm not going to sit here and say that you know I'm not going to submit anoice for gas

especially baseball I I think I was on the paper.

We had a great great great one of my My wife went to temple.