City Council - Regular Meeting

Is that you guys? Is it? That's Dwayne? You were in the 510. Yeah.

Yeah.

I love snacks.

We like snacks, too.

Oh, I love them.

It just means five extra minutes on the treadmill.

You still running? OK. Isn't that some flack? I didn't.

They added that one last minute. I didn't even get a chance. I thought it was next week.

Hello, everyone. Roll call, please.

Mr. Pinnebone?

Here.

Mrs. Rose? Here. Mr. Graziano?

Here.

Mrs. Hartrath-Bittinger?

Here.

Mayor Panto?

Here. We'll go on to the committee discussions concerning requests for loading and uploading for handicapped space for disabled clients being requested by Mr. Rich, the Director of the Private Industry Council.

Mayor, before we get started, I have one issue. I'd like to table FG&H. I know legally we don't have to advertise it, but public has reached out to me. I'm sure Crystal and Frank, they asked about the NIOSH. They asked about HDC. I told them it's not on the agenda. We didn't put it on until after 1 p.m.

It doesn't have to be on. It's a committee meeting.

We're not making any decisions. Yeah, but this is where discussions take place, the updates. We're going to hear from the chief, allegedly, about update on practices going forward. That's a big issue for not only Easton but all over, and it just doesn't make us look good, Mayor. And I don't want to get beat up from it from the press and the public because, and I'm telling people, it's not on the agenda. I mean, we talked about it before. I'm looking to bring a resolution for counseling yourself, Mayor, to look over that we put the things on the agenda and advertise within 24 hours to the public so they know, so they can weigh in on it. This is the most important part of the council.

Well, I'm against all of them, so I don't have a problem with it. I'm against any type of loading, unloading, 15-minute spots.

Well, wait, Mayor, I'm not talking about that, though.

You're talking about A? No, they were on the agenda.

I'm talking about FG&H that just hit the agenda at 32 o'clock today.

Let me add some clarity. The NIOSH report and the recommendations that were made, first of all, were discussed, and we did discuss them to council, and I thought that there was an agreement from council that we were going to, come back at the next committee meeting and provide, and not just discuss what we already discussed, but put it in writing and submit it. So that's actually all that we have for you today. I instructed the chief just to submit the recommendations. So tomorrow at the report, You can say that you've received them, and you can then discuss them at a future time if you like. But at that point in time, really the chief's presentation regarding the NIOSH recommendations and his written response is over. I mean, that's all we have to say.

And I know you mentioned it two weeks ago, but we published this, and Karen put it out on Saturday night. We published committee and regular so the public, the press can see it. And if they want to be here, if they want to ask questions, what have you, we didn't do that. And I'm not saying with the intent. I don't think the intent was to do anything wrong. But the perception is that we're trying to do things behind the scenes.

My recommendation is that the city clerk does not prepare an agenda for Tuesday night meetings. It's a committee meeting. If something major comes up that Mr. Graziano wants to talk about, he should talk about it at a committee meeting, not a Wednesday night meeting.

But if there's an emergency, I totally agree with you, Mayor. But this is when the discussions happen. The committee meetings are when you work on things. Why we're excluding the public from that is beyond me.

I'll defer to counsel, but technically we're not deliberating. These are just administrative, and according to the Sunshine Act and the law, you're just listening. There is no deliberation.

And like I said to you earlier, I can't speak to if we're breaking the law because that's not what I have knowledge of. But I know we look like assholes to the public. I'm gonna be honest.

I'm gonna defer to I'm gonna defer to our solicitor, but I'm not talking about legal I'm just saying publicly like our public should have a right to know when we're especially something like the public knows that we meet every Tuesday in committee and Wednesday in stated session What else is there to know then but I think I think you were overthinking that we're just submitting the NIOSH report and also it technically On these items, especially if there's something on the agenda for tomorrow, we can review administratively what the issue may be. So therefore, then tomorrow night, you can deliberate on it.

But all discussions and work should be during committee, right? The council meetings, you vote, you may have some discussion, but we should be working through anything here in committee. When you say working, do you mean deliberating? Deliberating, working, discussing, Q&A.

I will defer to our solicitor regarding deliberating.

So what I would say is there's a difference between official action and deliberation and receiving information. Essentially, engaging in a conference where the counsel, in this case, receives information does not have to even occur at a public meeting. That can occur in any format. whether it should occur in a public meeting is not within my realm to determine. Deliberation should happen, any matter that's going to be deliberated should be on an agenda, but you are not prohibited from deliberating. It's best practice to make sure that if you're going to, deliberate is just discussion. It's discussion that moves towards making a decision. So deliberations should be listed on an agenda, but there's nothing to stop you from doing it if it wasn't on the agenda. It's just best practice. Official action must be on the agenda.

So a legal question. Fire Chief Hennings presented us with two full pages of bullet points that he's going to present tonight. So if we just sit here and keep our mouths shut, it was just a presentation, we're fine. But if any of us have a question about reinforced compliance with crew integrity and two-in, two-out procedures or something else, we're in deliberation. It walks a fine line between... You said to talk to the solicitor.

What I would say is that that does walk a fine line between when the conference stops and when deliberation starts. And I'm not debating legalities of it, right?

That's just not what I have any knowledge in, right? So I'm not debating legalities of it. I'm just saying... Ethically, morally, the public should be included in the discussions. They should be able to at least know about it. Then why do we have Tuesday night meetings? To debate and go through everything. To do everything. And then you meet on your council and that's when you have your votes. But the work should be taking place today. That's when we're debating, we're asking questions, we're getting answers. Then we decide if we're moving it forward for a vote. Then when the vote comes on Wednesday, we're voting on it. The decisions should be made here. The public should be heard here for the council members to formulate their opinion if they're going to move forward with a vote yes or no.

Well, I discussed this with you earlier. I mean, if that's the action, if that's the way you want to conduct the council business, then my recommendation would put it towards some sort of formal resolution so you can, so the administration has a better idea of what's, What's expected. And you did tell me that. Because as of right now, as of maybe the last couple times that you had brought it up, Mr. Pinnabone, I've never heard that. I've never heard that request come from city council, formally or informally.

In 28 years, I've never heard it.

So I just want to make sure that we're operating under a certain... Understood.

Per our conversation earlier, I agree with you, and I took your recommendation, so I'm going to bring a resolution going forward. In the meantime, I'd ask that we table F, G, and H. Well, I will say then we'll discuss those tomorrow night in depth. Can we get it on the agenda tonight so the public and the press and everybody else knows that we're going to discuss it in depth?

It's under committee reports. You know we don't have to submit an agenda for committee reports.

But it's being taken off the committee.

That's what I'm saying, but I'm just saying you're asking to put it on the agenda for tomorrow? Under discussions. We can do that under our committee reports. Or you can do it during the discussion period after you take your first and second. I mean, it makes no sense.

But what I'm saying is, again, I'm not talking legalities. I'm talking about the right thing to do for the public. I'm asking if we can put it out there so when the public and the press and whoever else look at the agenda, they say, okay, that's nothing I'm interested in, so I'm not coming to the meeting. Or that is something I'm interested in, whether I want to hear about it or I want to ask a question, I am going to come. By us not bringing it up until 620 or whenever we get to committee reports, it's too late for people to hear it.

I'm okay with that. Like I said, I would recommend if that's the practice that you're going to do, I think that council has to discuss it amongst themselves how they're going to manage the information. The administration is just operating under precedent.

I mean, look, OpenGov, and I'm not blaming Mr. Lissanicki or anybody, but I saw the email come in about the OpenGov. I didn't even get a chance to open it. It came in like 2 o'clock. I can't even have an educated discussion on it. I didn't even look at it. You know what I mean? About a year ago, the mayor sent out an email that everything needs to be to Karen by Thursday so it can hit the agenda Friday.

It's Monday. It is on the agenda for tomorrow. What did you send additionally? There's a clarification from Mr. Graziano. He asked a question and I thought it would be good to share it with the rest of council because it was a, that makes sense.

I appreciate it. I didn't, like I said, I didn't get to open it.

There was no time before the meeting, but I just think going forward, I think the only reason, so the only, I understand transparency, transparency, but sometimes there's a need just to have a conversation. And, and so this is a good conversation. And I think what Mr. Lesnecki wanted to do, because, um, It wasn't necessarily brought up as an item for discussion tonight. Mark wanted to proactively put it on your radar that it's on the agenda tomorrow prior to you coming into the meeting tomorrow. Now, I understand that you probably read the agenda in detail. He just wanted to have a conversation. Nothing precludes us. I'm fine with that.

I didn't see what you said, so I'm fine with that.

Nothing precludes us. from having additional conversations, whether individually or in this committee workshop. I mean, it has been, and it's also been, I think, your understanding, and it's been my understanding too in different experiences that I have had, is that with regards to the formal agenda and actions that a board has to take, usually in a committee, Those items that are on the agenda are talked about here. Now, with regards to the NIOSH report and also the discussion with regards to the HDC, and in the NIOSH report is also the inspections. I mean, I thought we were clear that we were going to come back to the committee meeting and discuss them. So I. That's what we said at college. You absolutely said it. So I don't know why they're not on here. I don't know either. I don't set the agenda.

The other thing that we discussed during committee was that we were going to, I was told that we were taking a look and there, John and Mark, were you guys going to come back with some fee recommendations at different tier? We're going to talk about stepping back and seeing.

We have those two.

Do we have that prepared for today?

We, I mean, well, we did not. It's not on the agenda. So, no, we didn't have it for today. But we were getting ready to basically finalize it late last week. Yes. So we do have it. So we can send that to council and have it discussed.

I thought we were going to discuss that today as well. I need to be in terms. Because at the last council meeting, I asked. Not council.

We don't set the agenda.

No, but if council sets legislation, what have you ever been denied?

Anything you want on your agenda?

He's asking me who's puts it on.

Well, you do. I don't.

Yes, you do. When, when you say two weeks ago, you did say we're going to discuss it in two weeks. So that's all the more reason for me to believe it should have been on the committee agenda with everything else. When I updated the, uh, when I did the handicap and the accessible, I went to the mayor, got his approval, had the director send it to Carol and we got Karen. Sorry. And we got it on tonight's agenda for committee to have the discussion tomorrow for the vote.

Frank, I know you, this is your format. You want to follow this. So I know you want to put everything on the committee agenda. I'm just, you know, when we talk about it, there's a disconnect here. Right. And I'm just going to be honest with you.

Well, the disconnect is that sometimes, like today, OpenGov, I just was updated on that yesterday.

Again, Mayor, I don't think, and I know you, I know the directors, I know Karen, I don't think anybody's doing it intentionally to hide anything. But if the mayor just got it yesterday, right, put it on for two weeks. If it's not an emergency, put it on for two weeks. Let us all have a chance to digest it. Let the public have a chance to hear what's going on and make recommendations instead of waiting until the night of the meeting when we have to make a vote.

I would agree with that. I think sometimes it would be good to have the discussion at committee, have time to read, ask questions. Because also, tomorrow's agenda came fairly late. And so I was playing catch up on my lunch break today. We all have jobs and everything too. And you want to make sure before we're voting on something that we have the full context.

Yeah, I agree with other Frank as well. It's one thing having conversations during a meeting, but I think when we have bigger topics like this that everybody's focusing on, I agree. I think it should be on the agenda beforehand so everybody could see it.

Now, when you asked me to put it on the agenda beforehand, you also said put it on 24 hours beforehand. Is 24 hours enough to talk about big subjects?

My understanding is we're talking about two different things.

Okay. I'm talking about committee meetings.

I'd like to get them on Fridays if possible. So with my work schedule and family, I have time to review it and be able to participate with some type of education on the topic at committee. But for the public, my understanding is you should advertise it within 24 hours of the meeting for the public. You know, for us to review, I'd like to get it on a Friday so we can dig through and formulate some questions and have an understanding before we get to committee. But the public, 24 hours, they should know, you know, because I know people in the public that check the agenda Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. Okay, there's nothing on there. They're really interested in NIOSH. I got a call. Hey, I don't see NIOSH on the agenda. Yeah, it's not there. I didn't know it was being discussed until about 1.30 today.

You're talking about committee meetings, though.

A committee.

Yeah.

And I said it's not, but it wasn't on the committee, Karen put. committee agenda on as well as council meeting on. It wasn't anywhere. So I'm assuming we're not discussing it. Then to find out today, you know, nobody knew we were discussing it. So people that wanted to hear and wanted to weigh in, I mean, last committee meeting, you had firefighters here, you had individuals here. There's nobody here. I don't, nobody knew we were discussing it.

Except at the last meeting, at the last meeting, we closed it out and I was under the impression that the administration was going to come back and speak to not only in writing, because we did verbally, in writing submit a report with regards to what the fire department is doing under the NIOSH recommendations. I think that was pretty straightforward. And the other thing it was, and I think we reiterated twice, we said at committee meeting, and then I said it again at our council meeting under my report, that we were going to submit a report that looked at both the high-risk occupancy structures versus what has been inspected throughout the city. I don't know what else to say other than we were going to discuss that tonight. I thought it was very clear. I even confirmed it with Councilwoman Rose. To us? Yes. Yes.

At the committee, we heard that you were going to bring it back tonight.

That's right.

But publicly, we didn't. And I don't remember hearing at the last committee meeting, evaluate and expand Eastern Police operational roles during large-scale incidents, which is a great idea, but I don't remember us discussing that. So that's something new that we haven't discussed.

So submitting a use just a report and then the the final thing is that we were going to discuss because there was a table on the HTC on the HTC proposal And so I was expecting on the committee meeting.

I was disappointed to see it off the council agenda But I'm thankful to Karen for getting it back on before the 24-hour period That's fine.

I don't yeah, I like but the whole point was that we were going to come back to committee and discuss you know, our findings. Right. That's all.

And I don't have an issue with that. I guess what I'm saying is we need to make sure the public is aware of what we're discussing, and they need to have an opportunity to weigh in or just to listen and hear their feedback so we can decide what we're doing.

How is that missed, though? Like, how do we miss that?

I think it just simply needs to be on the agenda. That's all. I think that's the only thing that we're saying here is it should be on the agenda beforehand.

Who puts it on the agenda? The administration, not the council members. That was the administration should go to the clerk and put it on the agenda?

If you're saying we're bringing this up at the next committee meeting, then I would say it's your obligation to make sure it's on the agenda. Like the other directors, it's up to them to make sure that Karen has whatever they need on the agenda by Thursday. So if the chief and yourself and whoever else are bringing these recommendations in, then it's somebody's responsibility to get it on the agenda so we can have the discussion about it in advertising.

It's not council members.

If I'm bringing something, I make sure it's on the agenda.

But if I don't know what your plan is or how you're moving, there's been things that we were going to put on the agenda that we didn't because you guys weren't ready yet. I mean, when I look at all the, well, tomorrow's agenda, I didn't put anything on tomorrow's agenda except for two things. The rest of the agenda I didn't put on.

All right, that's fair. I'm just getting clarity. Yeah.

I asked the mayor, and then with his permission go to Karen, to put things on that I'm working on that I'm bringing forward, but I don't know what you're doing.

I would like to suggest that we do A, B, and C, or D rather, sorry, A, B, and D, We table them until the administration can come back with some semblance of order between a handicap accessory a handicap accessible space a loading unloading zone and right now because right now single museum is asking for a handicapped spot in the front on a 300 block of With chemistry and they have a loading unloading zone in the back where they park all the time and

Yeah, but they have steps, and it's closed off for deliveries. You can't ask handicapped individuals to climb up the steps and go over. Then they put a ramp in.

I mean, should this be part of the parking study?

I suggested we put it on today at the staff meeting.

I think since we're doing the parking study anyway, it would help maybe give us some data to clarify what our strategic direction should be with those spots, perhaps. I am starting to get a little nervous because we're getting more and more some on the same blocks now, too, and that's really going to impact parking.

We're going to get a lot more because everybody's going to get one. Everybody wants one.

Well, there was there was handicapped spots on Northampton before they reconfigured and they got rid of all the handicapped spots.

Yeah, but we have handicapped spots in areas where don't even have a ramp. So you can't get on the curb under the sidewalk from your car if you're in a wheelchair. I mean, we should look at those types of things. I'm fine with looking at it.

Can I ask a question? I've actually always wondered this and I never dug into it. The Private Industry Council, what is it?

I don't know what they do today. It's right around the corner from my house. Yeah, I don't know what they do today, but they used to hire pick workers.

Yeah, and they used to have classes there for them.

Yeah, they still have classes there.

I've never seen anyone go in or out of that building.

So, Mayor, for clarification, you're asking to table A, B, and D. For example, the county has asked us to put all the meters around during their construction of the docking down to the parking garage.

All their meters at an hour. Well, in my mind, no disrespect, Mike, but in my mind, the only person that would be in the courthouse for an hour would be lawyers at a hearing. I don't know why they need to, they may need more than 15 minutes, they may need 30 minutes, but I don't know why they would need an hour. And I know I keep preaching this, but it's about revenue. We would lose all that revenue. It would be perkier all day.

Mayor, is it because of the construction that really took place? Yeah, that's what they said.

And I have no problem changing it for the county. I just want to know what we should. Is it 30 minutes? 40 minutes? I don't know.

We don't know the purpose of why.

No, they didn't say.

Because they're knocking down the parking garage. I know they're doing construction. And they're saying those people that would normally park there are going to have to park on the road.

I know that.

But they also have lots that are empty.

There's a packet in here from the county.

On here?

Yeah. It's, I don't know. Yeah, there's a letter D in red. Email from Jason Hazleton. Do we need to do a motion and a vote at the table?

No. We'll just take it off the agenda.

You can't deliberate. Like, you can't vote.

I didn't know how we get it off.

We don't discuss it.

Sounds good.

So that means tomorrow... tomorrow officially you will take action.

To table it?

We'll table it short term. You're just gonna have to take it off.

Yeah.

Because this is probably gonna go, it's either, we're either gonna look at it or it's gonna be part of the parking study. Because this specifically was not part of the parking study, which is on the website today. So we officially rolled it out, the RFP.

How many people do you anticipate applying? or organizations? Is that something that usually draws a big group? Three.

Yeah. Two to three. Yeah, we have to go out and reach out to folks. I'm going to, again, see this is fluid, right? I'm going to be at a parking, myself and Dave Hopkins are going to be at a parking conference in Bethlehem tomorrow and then the following day. So my hope is that around lunchtime, like usually go see the vendors, I'm going to go look for additional parking consultants. I've already received a handful, less than a handful, only two actually, recommended parking consultants that other cities have used. So we sent it out today, but it's formally on the website. Sounds good. Thank you.

So can you edit it on the website to include the handicapped parking study?

we could change the scope. I have a, I have language in there that allows us to change scope. So that's okay. That's okay. Cause I'm going to need, it's, it's fluid. It's not, it's not in like a box cause you don't know what's going to come up. Yeah. So, so once I get a proposal for about probably 95 to 98% of it, then I could add or subtract cause I also want to stay within a budget. So that's just the other thing.

Okay.

All right, Mr. Pinnabone, your accessible handicapped space is off. Your housing, bill number 12. Thank you, Mayor.

After discussions and last council meeting, I went back to the drawing board. You'll see one of the changes I made was the rent is not to exceed 30% of yearly gross income, utilities included. You'll also note that today I added a word to it, the word heat, H-E-A-T. Apparently, utilities doesn't necessarily mean heat if it's oil heat. So even though we're not, I see our solicitor shaking his head. I didn't know that. I thought when we said utilities, we're talking about heat, electric, gas, but we're not. So I added heat there. So the big change is 30% would include all utilities. In addition we added studios one bedrooms two and three. I know a lot of development We're not getting three bedrooms, but you know possibly it could and we don't have to go back and redo it For the studio and efficiency Units should be affordable to households making no more than 75% of the median income and then we go up to 95% for the three bedrooms and What is the same as my original presentation? I'm not using the area median income as Lehigh Valley because we know that areas such as Palmer and Forks and Saucon Valley, Parkland, so on, drive up the median income. So we're only basing it on the city of Easton, Southside, Downtown, West Ward, and College Hill. So those are the only changes. Everything else pretty much stayed the same. And I'm sorry.

Price per unit went up, didn't it, from 25 to 30?

Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, Mayor. Thank you. It's still they have to allocate 25% of the units to workforce housing And I did increase the fee from 25,000 the door to 30,000 as their opt-out So that was the that was the change Since was on the agenda, I want to make sure it's good discussion.

I have I will be voting in favor of that I

You will or won't? I will be. Okay. Thank you, Mayor.

I also will be. I'd like to change it. We have the information that came forth was important that when we change the median income from year to year when they come in, because normally what happens is that you do a yearly. And if their Social Security would change, in my case, if their Social Security would change, it would always mean that the tenant's rent would go up, but it's really flush and stand with the 30% of the...

I want to make sure that we put somebody in the administration in charge of the annual review, because I remember when the city still owns four, where you grew up, Rest Lawn. Don't ask me why they called it Rest Lawn, but they called it Rest Lawn before you die. But... I'll be quiet about that. Okay. They were supposed to put up the rate every year commiserate with the code and we never put it up and we owned it and people were paying the same rent they were paying here back in the 60s.

Mayor, I do have a question. You said you want the city to oversee it. So according to the plan, Home Easton was going to oversee it.

Is that okay?

So Home Easton will make sure that the building owners are compliant and they're running to the right people and collecting the fees and those things.

I just want to... What are they using for that? I'm sorry. A model lease for that? Using a model lease?

I don't know if they're using a model lease or not. They should because the model lease is the one that Penrose did over at Nelson Heights. That's the best one around. But I just want to remind people that If I'm living in a building and you're putting people with affordable rent in that building, same building, you destroyed that building to an extent. I have no problem with that because I grew up in public housing, so we had people who were a lot poorer than my dad and I, our family, but you take that building over there, you put 10% occupancy or 25% occupancy, affordable, and it changes the perplexion of that project.

I don't know. Mayor, I don't even know what to say on that. Mayor, I don't believe that just because a person doesn't make a lot of money means that they're going to bring down the property.

I certainly agree. I think I'm an example of that. But I certainly agree with that comment. But that's not the case in all cases. It's going to be up to the landlords to do their homework like we did. Credit check. Police crime check. I mean, that's what it comes down to.

And most of them do that now anyway. One of the requirements is to do that.

And also, Mayor, if you look at the rates, you know, you're down into the high 40s for inefficiency. So, you know, I mean, these are people that are working that, you know, that unfortunately they're busting their butts like everybody and they're just not making enough money.

I agree. I have no problem with the ordinance.

All right. All right. Looks like that's all we have. All right. Everything else off the agenda?

No, the health code. The health code.

Health code.

Dwayne.

We'll have Jared explain it.

Jared's going to explain it? He's too new.

Don't pitch out.

Well, you're coming off of a big weekend. It was a good weekend, but it was a big weekend.

I'm usually up there.

Sorry. So I'm just submitting some ticket increases and then a late fee on our temporary licenses for the council to hear. It would help encourage just enforcement out and repeat offenders of violations. There's two classifications of violations, risk factors and good retail. I did send out an email. Hopefully everybody got it. I'm not sure if it was forwarded on. But basically, the two classifications are risk factors, which are known to make people very sick, very fast, foodborne illnesses, and then good retail. So good retail is basically just keeping up with the business, cleaning, physical facilities, simple things every owner should be doing. I'm sorry to cut you off. Do we do grease traps, anything like that? So grease traps would fall under the code as well. Placement and everything else wouldn't be in my purview. But the cleaning and things like that and making sure they're functional, yes. Okay, thank you.

They're horrible to clean. I cleaned them at the store. They're horrible. They stink.

So that would be the first part of what I submitted. And then the second part would just be a late fee added on to just temporary licenses. There is a significant amount of vendors that don't get in applications in a good amount of time for me to review. And it provides collecting in the field. And with larger events, anything over five vendors, it's extending the inspection times quite significantly. And then it doesn't allow to make sure the city is protected.

Jared, when you say a lot of vendors don't submit it in enough time for you to do your review, when does it call to be submitted now?

So currently, there is nothing in writing. I typically tell my organizers, hey, try to get it five days to two weeks in advance business days, so 10 business days. I can tell you off the last event, I had the current event coming up this weekend. Let me talk about that one because I know the numbers. I only have four complete out of 25. and we're Tuesday for a Saturday event.

So you're going to stipulate you want 10 business days. If they're within 10, less than 10, they're going to be charged late fee?

I stated five, five business days on the ordinance update. I think five is significant enough for me because typically most events are weekends, right? So having Monday, getting them riled in and getting everything submitted on Monday would give me significant time.

I'm working on the pub call ordinance right now, and that calls for if it's between 5 and 100, or no, 5 and 250, it's 30 days in advance. And if it's over 250, it's 60 days in advance. So we might want to make them commensurate and the same.

I would go with whatever is more congruent.

How was your weekend? How are the vendors at the crit?

It's the start of a season, to say frankly. Are the vendors cooperative? Oh, vendors are always cooperative. We have a good group here in Easton. Everybody needs a reminder here and there.

Good way to put that. Anything else for Jared? No, Mayor?

No. As I mentioned before, I thought we were going to be talking about fees tonight, and I think there are a few people who wanted to speak about their experience, if we could give them a minute.

Who's on the agenda?

Well, I mean, we had asked. I don't mind them speaking on non-agenda items, but I don't know how we can. At the last council meeting, we did say we were going to discuss it at this meeting.

I agree, but we didn't put nothing on the agenda. I mean, we could hear non-agenda items. They could speak, but I don't think we should be going back and forth.

I mean, if we could do that, we're at the end of the meeting. I'd like to request that.

I just want to say, I'm going to, Karen, You hear during council meetings that an item should be discussed on the agenda. Can you take note so you can put that on your list?

I was doing that.

Okay.

But I need follow-up on that because they discuss making changes and coming to the Committee meeting with changes and I never hear anything again, and then the meetings have been canceled a lot in the last six months.

So what do you think you need to make?

I need an email from whomever is putting something, want to put something on the committee meeting.

Who's they? Is it administration or council?

Administration, council, anyone. I need to know that you want to add something to the committee meeting agenda. I don't take for granted anymore that just because you mentioned it in the meeting because no one ever followed up on that, ever. Okay, and you would know you wouldn't hear about it again on what on any topics like if you discuss something in council and Someone said well, we'll discuss it in the next committee meeting or the next council meeting at this subject And I can't give you an example off the top of my head, but it never comes up again We don't hear about it and I would start preparing the agenda based on that and then the meeting is cancelled or I don't hear of any updates or I'm not giving any direction as to whether you're still gonna follow through with that.

I think that this is a good discussion. And it's not like you had said, Frank, this is just a good opportunity to express that there's just a better way of working.

Let me put it formally, a process. The email comes to me as a chair that they want to put something on the agenda, and then I will meet with Karen to determine whether that goes on or not.

That's how it always was, right?

That's the way it always was, but I don't get any emails from anybody.

By Thursday.

By Thursday before the meeting.

Wednesday is the deadline. Wednesday by 4 o'clock. Yep. Wednesday by 4 o'clock.

Now it's Wednesday now?

It's been Wednesday. Well, when I first got here, it was Friday.

Then we pushed it to Thursday.

We've been doing Wednesday at 4. And then if you have any additional changes for that particular... Well, for committee?

So your committee is going to go that early? Why don't why don't I mayor I'll work with you to put a resolution together a policy if you will That can detail how we work together because it really should go through the the the committee chairs And the directors of the department it's a two-way street like it's not that one leads the other but the two should be working in tandem Just make it makes things a lot easier Because right now, I agree with all the statements. I just want to put a policy together that makes it a little bit easier.

I guess the way this council has worked in the past is that committee meetings, no deliberations are done, no decisions are made. It's just like an executive session. We don't have any decisions. But we go into executive sessions because it's a confidential topic.

Well, in the executive session, too, we don't. You know, I think it's on the similar vein, but a little bit different scenario. But in generally speaking, we can talk about two items, real estate or personnel, right? Acquisition.

Or litigation.

Sale or disposition or litigation or personnel. There's several items.

Just a reminder, tomorrow night, you should have got an email from me. 530 is an executive session. We're up at the neighborhood center, so I'll have to find a room. Where we can meet in private. Wait, what?

Since you, Mayor.

Tomorrow?

No, that's first week in June. We're here tomorrow.

Oh, we're here tomorrow.

Oh, good.

Yes, we're here tomorrow.

Okay. So, Mayor, I'll work with you to put together a policy, and then maybe we can circulate it to the council members. I mean, we'd like to discuss it at a committee meeting, but at the expense of it not popping up on a committee agenda, I'm just going to circulate it to everyone.

I WANTED TO SAY, JUST IN REFERENCE TO MR. DIRECTOR, IN REFERENCE TO OPEN GOV, I DID HAVE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH HIM NOT ONCE BUT TWICE IN REFERENCE TO IT. SO I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS BEING DISCUSSED A LITTLE LONGER. BUT I DO UNDERSTAND COUNCIL'S, YOU KNOW, CONCERNS ABOUT IT ALSO. Updated and told, and we spoke about what was going on and what we spoke about last committee and council meeting.

I'm not, just for the record, I'm not saying that the administration is not informing council members. I'm talking about the public that have a right to know what's on the agenda.

Yeah, I understand. Well, I mean, I appreciate that. I understand the public component of it. That's why I don't argue against that. I think it makes sense. It's a good idea. It's like I told you, it's not necessary, but I understand why you want to do it, and that makes sense.

I think sometimes it gets hard.

I know for me, when we have something on the agenda, tomorrow we're going to vote on it, right? So we come in tomorrow, you know, you don't know what you don't know, right? Now somebody else who might have more experience in that matter, they make a comment. Now I've got to process their comment and vote a couple minutes later. It doesn't give you a whole lot of time for everybody to weigh in and prepare for the vote.

I don't think we should dwell on it too much more. I want to have a policy so it's easier for us to follow. I am going to say that maybe the agenda should be... We had a short week this week. Maybe the committee agenda should be finalized by Friday. That's all. I don't think it has to be in by... like a Wednesday, but I could be wrong. I'm just gauging opinions.

That seems fair because we may... It just gives some time to throw something on for discussion. I think that seems reasonable.

Okay.

Because you're not going to be providing things for a packet or a thing. It's just Tuesday's discussion.

Well, the other point is it's an administrative update. It's an administrative discussion. Right. So... We'll work on something and we'll send it out. We'll send something out. Anything else? Lewis?

No.

Mark? Dwayne? Didn't you want the public to speak that was here? On fees.

If anyone has anything to say about fees. Time's up.

We appreciate you coming out.

Thank you.

I was unaware of Jared's proposal. So my matter has kind of shifted again because I encourage you to seriously consider it before it gets put into place, before you vote on that. Because like I had stated in the last council meeting, Health fee went up 66.7% from last year to this year. So it used to be $45 a day, and now it's $75 a day. Okay, fees go up. And I was okay with it because it said that the fees were going towards the health department to help grow it, possibly get another health inspector. We're one of the cities with the most festivals, and we have one guy who runs around with his chicken with his typecoat off. So we pay all this money. Now he wants to invoke the late fee, which, granted, because he's doing so much work. But as a business owner, I mean, there was one festival two years ago. Joe came to my tent and stopped me from setting up because I forgot to fill up my health fee. And I had to pay him on site. And we had to do this whole thing. It slips my mind. And granted, OK, there should be some kind of late fee. But now the fees are really high. And nothing was discussed regarding some kind of tiering program, which I was told that the finance

We did we did discuss the cheering and but that needs to be discussed before a late businesses who have a business in Easton Yes, get it. What is the percentage rate?

33% off Never I've never got a discount. Oh, no, we're just starting.

We're just we're just discussing this now.

Okay.

Well, we haven't we haven't We have a draft and we took your input Mark and company took your input into consideration, which was good. But we have a draft that just has to be presented to council.

I guess my concern is how are you going to impose a late fee? You're going to vote on a late fee tomorrow and then vote again on a tiering program? You've got to put it all together. You're right.

It should be tabled and brought together.

It's not on the agenda tomorrow.

I am taking more festivals in Bethlehem. I'll be honest with you. Compared to Easton and Bethlehem, this year I'm doing more in Bethlehem. Their fees are less. And I love the city. And we've been here 15 years. I'm the oldest bakery besides Easton Baking. We've been here 15 years. And I will do any festival in the city. but it has cost me almost $5,000 to do all the festivals this year, and I just can't. I can't anymore. So some kind of tiering program, some kind of discount, I would appreciate anything, but I just want to make sure everything, I think that all of your intentions are good. Everything that you guys have done is good, but sometimes you just jump. It's just like, oh, let's do this, and they're like, okay, vote. Okay, well, what about the business owners? And I just want you guys all to take everything into account.

Well, this morning we talked about the same thing with that. Downtown Easton is a business district. It is our business district, but it's also a neighborhood. And that's the reason for the pub call ordinance. But Saturday night, there was no parking in downtown Easton. So all the restaurants were hurting because people go to a restaurant. They can't get in. Right. They can't park.

Yeah.

So we're going to look at that more carefully next year. Okay.

Mayor, when you look at that, can the administration also look at just what it costs the city? And I know we talked about it last year. What it costs the city per event? Because I think that has a lot to do with fees as well. I've said it numerous times. I'm not looking at the city to make a profit, but we shouldn't be taking a loss and putting events on the back of the taxpayers. So if we can look at what we're spending versus what we're netting, That would help us on fees a lot as well.

We spend more on small events than we do on large events because the net loss on a small event is greater. But when you have 150 vendors, you make money. You don't make money. Our parking makes the money. We break even. We make enough on parking to cover all the overtime.

Well, this year you will see an increase with your festival fee. Remember the $50 we were talking about? And I know that we talked as a solicitor about not being able to not charge people. So maybe some kind of discount along the lines of $50 for out-of-towners or... $50 for us and $75 for out-of-towners. Yeah, you want to cover your costs. I understand that there's fees, and I think my friends and the business owners in town understand there are fees, but it comes to, like, we're here. People come to see us. They don't come to see you guys. No offense. So, like, you know, just help us out a little bit.

No, we're going to hear from the... Other than the retailers, we're going to hear from the restaurants very shortly.

Okay.

Because they're all getting a little bit upset. Saturday night was very difficult to eat in downtown Easton.

Yeah.

And they usually attract about 5,000 people a weekend.

Yeah.

A weekend night.

I was out on Saturday night, and the restaurants were full, too. So people figured it out.

I got three complaints at home about the roads being shut down. The only thing that shuts down all of downtown is the bike race.

Yeah. Yeah.

We have a rule now where you never close the Ring Road and Larry Holmes Drive. That's why Heritage Day is mad at us because they said, no, you're not shutting down Larry Holmes Drive an hour, two hours before you closed it. You open up the ring road. You need to be able to traverse downtown Easton.

And there are a lot of logistics, and we won't go too far back. Regarding fees, I want you guys to really take into consideration everything before just like, yeah, let's vote.

Well, the one thing we're going to take into consideration from now on is if they have a brick and mortar in downtown Easton, they get a reduced rate. We're not going to cater to out-of-towners.

I do agree with her. We need to look at everything before we discuss fees so if we can find out what we put in versus what comes back and everything else. We need to know the whole thing.

I know the farmer's market, they get a big discount on health fees. The $175 for the whole season, but then you go live at the falls and you're paying per day. It's the same exact spot.

Yeah, I think we have to look at the size of events, too, because I would hate to see that, like, Live at the Falls, which is a smaller event, you know, that fee is the same as doing a bigger festival. And, you know, part of the experience of these smaller events, it does bring people in. I just would hate to see them go away because they're very volunteer-driven people. We have a lot of local people vending at Live at the Falls, for example, too. And they're not making much money there. And if you're pulling up a check, I understand you have to check them for health reasons and everything like that. I'm not arguing that. But I also want to be sensitive to the size of the event because those smaller events also make our residential experience better. So I don't want to see those go away or those to see... be so watered down where they're not a good experience.

I look at it as a negative loss. We spent a lot of money on farmer's market. But it is America's oldest outdoor farmer's market. It goes back to 1752 when we were founded.

It's not that I'm... I'm not saying anything negative against the whole... I know what you're saying. If I were a vendor at the farmer's market, which the old carry, the old owner was, you pay $175 for the entire season. So it's almost 32 days. But if you go live at the Falls for four days, you're paying $300. But that is not...

Let me just say that the City of Easton sponsors no festivals. The only thing we do is what the Moose does. If it says sponsored by the Moose, it's the Moose.

Right, and there should be fees to cover your costs. Mayor, I understand that, but I'll end with just look at everything and make sure it's fair across the board. That's all I'm saying.

It's a good point. I appreciate your time. It's a good point.

All right.

Thanks, Andy. I agree.

Mayor, why don't we're going to send you the draft and And then if you want to, if you feel it's ready, circulate it or discuss it with the council at the next committee meeting.

Okay. Anyone else want to address City Council? No?

Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. We're out of here. Thanks, everybody. Susan. Yes, sir. How are you doing? Very good.

Okay. Yeah.

Not much. What's going on? What's that? That's a lot of stuff.

Everyone knows. work is, because we're eventually going to, are we going to have that contract? Tomorrow. Yeah. So it would, when did he reach out with the question? Okay. Yeah. So it would have to be, I guess what I would say is because it's a forum, so you can answer his question directly, or it can, because it's already on the agenda for tomorrow, meeting the day before? I don't know. Because it sounds like what Frank wants to do is have all the debate happen in the committee. Yeah, I don't think he'd want to do that. But that's the point of the council. That's what council meeting is.

You could get all your input, you could get all the discussion and formulate your opinion that you can voice at the council meeting.

Maybe we'll get out your ideas here and talk about it and maybe change your mind overnight. Yeah, maybe. So I guess that would be one option would be just Just be attentive. where you're in the audience, someone's up front presenting, maybe they're in a Q&A session, probably not. And I don't know if it makes sense to, like when you send something out. Obviously, But you don't send it out until... Is that enough time given the fact that we have these random Monday holidays? So if the agenda for council moves out Friday and it's either understood or it's automatically in that email, any agenda items, is that in the email already? Well, but then we missed it. Yes.

Yes.

It's something that seems like it would be of interest to the entire council. Why don't we put this on committee discussion?

What's up?

Well, as long as it's on the agenda, you can deliberate. You can. So you can deliberate it on Tuesday? Yeah, you can deliberate. If you wish to discuss the committee, make sure to let us know by this date, by this time. By noon Friday, by noon Monday. Is that enough time for you on Monday? You get it by noon Monday. By committee? Yeah. Assuming it's not a holiday. Is that a viable, is that a good way?

... ...

Okay. Good morning. It's going to be open to anyone. It's open to anyone. I don't know that department heads should necessarily do that. I think department heads should be distributing information to council as information. Then council can decide does this warrant

Okay, fine, we'll do it.

Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. He wants to be a doctor. It's a good school for that. It's crazy. Five of the top 30 kids. You're going that way too? Yeah, you might as well go that way too. Five of the top 30 kids that used to go to Pitt. Really? All either biochem or neurochem.

Thank you.