Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call to order the uh planning commission for the town of East Troy for the month of November. Like the record to show that all the commissioners are present with present with the exception of Commissioner Degrave who is got Larry as they're listening. Thank you. Uh how we work is on a split meeting format. We uh this is ourformational meeting where we will have the applicant come to the podium, tell us what they're looking for, give us a little explanation. There will be questions from the commission to the applicant back and forth. Um then the applicant would sit down. We'll have a small discussion amongst uh commissioners. Then I would open it up to the audience if anybody would like to speak in favor of the proposal, if anybody would like to speak against the proposal, and then if necessary a small rebuttal from the applicant. We then adjourn for two weeks, come back in two weeks and make our decision. That being said, that's not by ordinance. So, if we feel it's a straightforward decision that we can make tonight, we will make it tonight. First item on the agenda was is to uh review and approve the plan commission meeting minutes from uh October 2nd. Anybody issues the minutes? [clears throat]

I'll make a motion to approve. We have a motion to approve. Do we have a second?

I have a second. All those in favor? I opposed. Motion carries. Next item on the agenda is a condition of use N8651 Stone School Road parcel PG RE 00006 Gary Derek's. Good evening uh members of the planning commission. Thank you very much for your time tonight. Uh uh I'm here to speak about uh the addition of uh solar panels for my property on Stone School Road here in the town of East Troy. Uh I've got a packet of information uh that was provided. Uh I've got a number of uh points that I'll cover and discuss and hopefully fill in uh any questions you may have. Uh this proposed project is going to consist of a metal framed ground mount which is a frame is a structure that holds solar panels so that they can uh collect sun uh to turn into electricity. Uh I'm going to be installing a system that's 21.48 uh kilowatts and I current uh this would be above the county current limit. The limit from the county is 12.4 kilowatts per residential parcel. The county uh currently though is working on updating this old limit of 12.4 kilowatt uh uh for a residential parcel, but it's been in progress. It's a very old uh standard that they have and they know this. It's going to be voted on and changed, but uh I'm under a deadline to try to get the system in prior to December 31st so I can realize some federal tax credits for the installation. Uh if I wait for the county, that will be too late for them to get those approvals done. So, the system hopefully will be installed and taking advantage of those credits. Uh and the county is working on that. I just can't wait for the county. So, I'm going to spend the money on the permits, jump start the process, and hopefully have your approval on a conditional use permit. Uh, the copy of the conditional

use permit for the county is included in my packet. So, I'm here tonight uh before the board or before the commission to get approval at your level because the county likes to see and have the town's uh planning commission and the board's approval uh prior to issuing any approval on their site. Uh in the past in 2016 uh uh we installed 28 solar panels for a total of 7.6 kilowatts of electricity uh on the system. This ground mount system that we currently have installed on the property. That system is run without fault and it's very bene beneficial to us the property owners. Uh over time the electrical needs of our property have increased and we wanted to add additional solar to take uh to take advantage of the sun.

Is that what you have now? No. Uh if you want if you wouldn't mind just because of our I I'll have you ask questions later if we could just have him get through his presentation. I can point that out. Okay.

I don't have a I didn't since I'm not focused on that but I can point out where it is on our property. Um the proposed uh system will be 24 solar panels and it will be 11.4 with an 11.4 kilowatt inverter. Uh the mount has a footprint of approximately 15x 45 ft. uh the area under the panels the mount is open similar to this. This is not what we are going you know this is not a picture of it. This is a picture of something from the mount which [clears throat] will look very similar to what we have. The air flows underneath the grass grows underneath. Uh it's very open. Uh included in the condition of the permit request in the documents I have and which I we can show on screen are the most recent survey map. It indicates the location of the ground on the property. It includes the distance and the details uh from the nearest property lines. uh an image right here of what the system will look like when it's complete. Details on the distance to the nearest wetlands. Various diagrams of the system design and structure uh that have been supplied to Wei Energies as part of their approval and design process for their engineers to uh uh go over and ensure that it's going to be safe and within all of their guidance and regulations for installing solar. Uh and finally product data sheets on the solar panels and the inverter and the ground mount and all the technical specifications if you want to get that nitty-gritty in the details. Right here in the back in the back picture in my organ slides is a similar system of the materials uh that we're going to use that solar mount. Uh the topography of our property and the vegetation ensures that it's limited visual impact to any of the adjacent properties. In fact, our old solar panels that we put in in 2016 are much more visible to the neighbors as they drive down County L than these will be. These will be completely shaded or screened within our property by trees and topography of the land. So, these are even more way. So, on our property right here, uh our house or residential property, the solar panels are going to

go in this location. They're screened here by the all the trees. This is our current solar panel installation. This tiny little one right here that if you're out on County Live that's Stone School Road or Stony Stone School.

Yes, excuse me. Stone School Road. Uh if you're there, you'll be able to see that along our property line. Uh these will not be visible through these pine trees. The direction. Uh the distance to the wet land is noted on there. Uh we're quite a distance away from the wetlands we have on our property, so there's no impact there. Uh the timeline that we're looking at uh is of course to come here to the planning commission uh get approval get approval from the board and then proceed to the county for their approval and then go all out to get everything installed and approved by we energies and up and running by December 31st. I that's my quick and dirty explanation of what we're looking to do. I'm open for questions uh on the what we're looking to do here on our property. Any questions for the applicant?

I have one. Sorry, just I'll get to you. My my apologies. We just got to go through the this proper system. What will you do with the old system?

It's still going to be up in functional. That's we're the that's what puts us that system and this system puts us over the allotted amount of kilowatts. That's why the old system we'll put there. We're not we're not locating this newer system in that location due to our neighbors trees and our trees. When we put it in, there was a nice gap in the tree line where we could install those solar panels and get the sun. Uh, if we try to go either way, we're taking out some of the oak trees and Dale and Becky, our other neighbors on the other side, their pine trees are in the way and we don't want to mess with that. We have this available space that's fully open, this field in the middle of our property next to the driveway. So, we're going to install it there. Both systems combined will do that 21 point 21 kows of power for our property. Other questions then for the applicant?

Just curiously, I've often wondered if if a panel was injured and not injured, but damaged by a tree or whatever, does it affect the whole system or [clears throat] it would just limits the amount of output or the power. So like if you went out there and one of the panels was broken, it would just produce less power. So it doesn't replace that. It's easy to replace. Yeah, we we we would go out and replace that if there was damage and everything. The the lifespan of the the panels are warrantied. uh depends on the manufacturer, but these two sets of panels uh one is warrantied for 30 years and the other one's warrantied for 20 years and that's for just you know their warranty period and after that they'll function for 50 years or more as long as they're kept care of and not you know hit or struck by something that would damage them.

How do you care for them? I mean what do you do? Nothing. Nothing. I go out there and make sure that there's that hasn't it's the easiest thing in the world. You go out there. The only time I m have any issues with them is if we get a snowfall of about more than 6 in. And then I'll go out there with a broom and I'll just kind of thin the snow out on it because they're they're dark colored and so as soon as the sun comes up, it's like black top or a black roof. The it just comes right off. But if it's if it's really thick, it can take a couple of days for that to happen. So I just speed it up a little bit with the room. So it's very efficient. That's why you want it. And it helps with your

Absolutely. It's very efficient. It's very beneficial. It's uh no maintenance at all. I mean, the most maintenance I've had is when the the Wi-Fi router went out in our house and you got to reync with the system. That's the most complicated maintenance I've done on that season other than cleaning boxelder bugs out of the inverter fan. So, it it runs and operates. It's our current system has run for 9 years now. It's fully paid for itself. Uh generates electricity for us. It's very beneficial on that regards uh going forward. So now it just it's like a uh you know a little investment that just keeps pro providing money for us. for saving electricity and then and in uh indirectly saving the neighbors uh when I produce electricity in in a sample in an example in the summer where it's super hot out and sunny and everybody's cranking up their air conditioners and we usually have more electricity and we can any electricity we have goes into the grid and it goes into the adjacent neighbors which reduces the amount of load on Oak Creek or everyone else for shipping electricity in. So it it provides kind of like a little bit of insurance for brownouts and stuff like that. And if I'm not home, all that energy goes into the grid because I'm not using it.

Sure. Interesting. Any other questions for the applicant? So you strictly use this electricity for your personal home? Is there business involved?

There's no business. It's just us in our house. Uh we've got our when we sized it originally, we sized it just for the use of our house, like just the house itself. Uh that and we didn't have kids. We didn't have as many electronics back then and all that kind of stuff. Uh so now we've got, you know, teenage boys uh and the uh panels don't produce enough to cover our bills anymore. So we want to put in more panels to cover it. We've also purchased an electric car. The electric car uses a lot more energy. And so this allows us to instead of buying gasoline, we just let the sunshine on our property and we put that sunshine in our vehicle. It it's a cost savings

in the winter time though. I mean you have less sun in the winter. No just just balances it bal the average balances out over the year. I mean the sun goes down it changes the angle and stuff. We get less electricity in the dead of winter from the angle of the sun but it's not it still produces a significant amount of electricity.

He's still hooked up to we energy. So when the sun's not out he draws from the energies. When it's out he doesn't or even sells back to we energy. Yeah, it it does reduce it. Uh the two best months are fall and spring because that's the best angle for the solar panels when they're at the fixed angle. But one beneficial thing of these new panels is the metal ground mount allows us to pivot them. So we'll actually be able to take a better advantage of the winter and summer angles because we can go out there and physically manipulate them several inches and and change the angle on the panels and it produces more electricity then. Yeah. improvement.

So, I'm curious on your discussion with county um I reached out to them as well. So, apparently they indicated to you that um they're increase they're they've had discussions about increasing correct? Yes, they they uh Kate at the planning office there indicated they've got a couple of more meetings to have. like they've got the stuff. They've worked it all out, but they've got to do the meetings to have the votes and put it on the books and they don't have those scheduled yet. And so,

so I shared with the commission my communication with the county and it was a little vague. Nick said, and then he talked about changing it to 100 kilowatts from the current 12.4. So, that's a significant increase, but um timing he wasn't sure that it hasn't been scheduled or anything like that. like you said and I don't know how many discussions he said it was just talked about. It's pretty informal. Sure. So I would say 100 is a big jump. Yeah. And I'm only going to 20. You know how many um other solar panels you may have in your area in

any other questions for the applicant then? You included this picture. He says it's going to look a lot like this. Correct. Is there any reason you didn't include an actual picture of your current system? I can get it for you on my phone if you want, but I'm not The closing isn't built yet. Okay.

Yeah. This is what I'm This is what I'm going to build. This is a picture of from uh someone that's different from what the system I currently have is is a wooden ground mount that I built myself. So, we didn't buy a fancy metal wooden rack back then. Being stretched for dollars. I I created it out of wood by based on the plans from the the manufacturer. And so it's a wooden ground mount system. And so this time because I wanted to take advantage of being able to tilt in the in the winter in the summer. You can't do that with a wooden ground mount. It needs to be built nice and sturdy and fixed like a deck. And so it it's it doesn't allow me to tilt. The metal one is stronger with the metal frames which just allows you to have that pivoting. Anything else for the applicant?

Great. Thank you. Thank you. Uh quick discussion amongst commissioners. I guess I was going to surprise that we had to give conditional use for green energy, but that's the case. And maybe we're headed down, you know, 100 kowatt um situation in the future. It's not now. He wants to take advantage of federal tax credits. Um I've got my two cents. It seems to make sense. It's a well put together. You know, there's no bait and switch here. There's no nothing, you know. Funny that I see. Any other discussion amongst commissioners? Just that it's very interesting. I'm way over my head. It's coming. It's coming. Yeah. Y.

All right. At this point, I could open it up to the audience. And I'm just going to say if you'd like to speak in favor of the proposal, it does not necessarily have to be a phase or against. If you still have some questions, uh, we can we can route them to the applicant, but would you like to speak at this point? If you could just give your your name and address for the record, please. And go to the microphone. Thanks. [clears throat] Name is Greg Kolicowski. I live at W811 Greystone Circle. I'm about well, two lots away, really. We're number four. Yeah, we're lot number four. Okay.

And it, tell you the truth, I didn't even know you had panels up, you know, so I I never even saw them, you know. And uh the system you're talking about sounds pretty good to me. Uh it uh uh does the current system uh handle all your needs for your house? No, it does not. Not anymore. when we when we first put it in and all we had was the house and we didn't have kids and we didn't have the electric car, then we we it's that that original system is sized for that. And so any additional load we put onto it, we I also built myself a workshop and and that load is in excess of that calculation we did 16 years or nine years ago.

So with the addition of the panels that that you're going to be putting in, that will power your whole house. The goal the goal is to have a a with Wii Energies. Wii energies does not provide uh uh one to one payment for excess generation over about what you use. They pay you at less than a third of of regular retail rates. So anything I produce over and above what I consume, we energies will give me money for it, but it'll be less than onethird the retail value. So it is not beneficial for me to have my system size bigger than what it should be to power to power what I need because otherwise I'm just giving we energy staff excess money to their benefit and not my benefit.

So I would cost me more money to do that to build a system that doesn't benefit me. So you very much do that math and calculation when you're putting in a solar system under those type of constraints and and that has no effect on uh say your cable or uh your uh uh any kind of uh radio or TV transmission that you might be getting in over the airwaves. No, because it's it's all it's all I mean there's probably more interference from the line coming from we energies to the house. I mean that's, you know, that's providing huge amounts of electricity compared to what the panels do on a day-to-day basis when they power up. Yeah.

How high is it? How high is the new installation? The new instight uh the back end of the panel I think is depends on which angle you have it on, but 10 ft. Okay. Depending on you know summer versus winter. Who's doing the installation? I am in my solar company next energy solution. So I'm Oh, you have this is your your really this is what you do. No, no, no. My mine is my contract right now. I I have myself and I have the contractor. Oh, you're the you're the actual

I'm going to be doing a lot of construction. I uh I founding finding that solar company, most solar companies want to do turnkey. They want to come in and they want to do everything for you. And of course they want to have you pay the bills of everything. Um it's crazy expensive to do it that way. This company that I work next Energy Solutions partners with you and allows you to do as much as you can on your own. So like putting in the mount itself and fabricating it and putting it up and assembling it all. Okay. Because I don't need to pay technicians to put nuts and bolts together. How do you handle that? Okay. So, um, do you have to when you're first installing like, um, solar?

So, if if you don't mind if you guys have other discussion that's maybe more technical and not so much about the the conditional use, if if you guys could do that maybe after the meeting. That'd be great. Okay. Does that have anything you wanted to say, sir? Uh, no. It sounds like Okay, great. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Um, I mean, I'm hearing no no uh negative comments. I think we could

The only thing we might want to do is if we pass it, we would say it would be contingent on the county passing the increase. Um, well, not necessarily because in my mind, and you tell me if if you disagree, but in my mind, a 21 kilowatt solar panel, he's asking for a conditional use because it currently doesn't 100 it. It's currently over what the county allows. So, that's why he's here asking us for it. So, even if the county said never did that, I I don't know that I would have a problem with approving this conditional use. Even if the county never changed their standards, it would just mean the next person who wants to put in over 13 kilowatts would have to come back to us again. We'd have the same discussion and we approve or deny it. Again, that's just my take because I would hate to hamstring him because that would stop him from doing his construction and he would miss out on his his federal subsidy if we were to tie it to the county cuz we the county doesn't even know that they might approve it. the countyy's keeping him from building it anyways

unless unless he approves the conditional use. So if we approve it, the county would act on his conditional use and potentially give him a conditional use to build it before they did anything to do with increasing the regulations to 100 kow. That's why he's I mean [snorts] even if the county if this wasn't on their radar, this would be the process he would have to go through. Sure. So all right. Uh would anybody like to make a motion then? Motion to approve conditional use for the installation of a metal frame ground mount for holding solar panels to generate electricity for residential use. We have a motion to approve. Do we have a second? Second. All those in favor?

I opposed. Motion carries. Thank you. Next item on the agenda is a discussion of possible action um to two things. So, I'll just take them one at a time. And uh where these two came up from was our efficiency study that the town did. They brought these two things up that had to do with the plan commission. The first one is to move to a single meeting format. And when Chairman Jones called me to discuss it, my first initial reaction was, well, why we we do decide a lot of them on the first one. Why not have the option to do a second meeting? So where it kind of came where finally uh chairman Jones, Jim and I sat down and kind of had just a poll about it with the quasi jur judicial things. So if if we were to have a meeting such as this, get our information at our decision-m meeting, that's not a public meeting. and we it's it's it's up in the air with attorneys whether we can go do our own research and bring that to the table and then make a decision. So if we were to go to a single meeting format and say something like tonight we we couldn't decide on we would push them off one month. Now, at first I was like, well, that kind of screws over the applicant. But it doesn't because if we push them to the decision-m meeting, that's already passed the town board meeting. So, that does push them around to a whole another month, even if we push them 2 weeks. So, now say we we can't make a decision, we table it. we can now do research, come back to the next month, and now we're in open forum again where it's public input and any new information is now put back out there. And I think it's a little bit more of a CYA on the quasi jurial

situation where we're not kind of doing our research on our own, coming back, shutting off the public, and making our decision and jamming it down their throats if if you will. So, I kind I came full circle and I said, "Well, then I I think it's it's kind of a win-win. It's we kind of cover our behinds on the quasi juris jurisdictional. We're not hampering the applicant because they're going to have to wait a month anyway because the town board meets the second Monday. We meet the first and third Wednesday. So, they would miss the town board approval anyway. So if we don't make our decision the first night in this format, they're pushed off a month before they can come back to the town board anyway. So that's why I think I think that's a a good thing because it it kind of covers our quasi jurisdictional thing and even if someone is not intentionally trying to stir up or do I mean the reason why we have the two weeks is to do our due diligence and make sure we can make an informed decision. Now, we'll have a month to do our due diligence and reppresent it in open forum with with the with the public involved.

So, that's we don't have to deal with a situation where no, you can't talk. No. And the same thing where obviously like the double D's things, I was knocking people down. And it's not that I was trying to beat them down cuz I was so in favor of this proposal. That was just our

our situation. So I was trying to just keep meetings running the way I was supposed to. This way now I can open it up twice essentially and again any new information or or say we don't have enough information from the applicant. Okay now between now and a month from now get us a survey or get us whatever we might be missing. They can get it to us. We can present it in open form and for all the public to see, for all of us to see. And then, you know, we thought maybe do we put it down where you can only have two kicks at this or something like that. But I thought that made it a little bit too muddy. If we decide like, hey, you've had your chance. Let's just deny it, you know, cuz we have the right, you know, hey, you don't have enough information here to make a decision. Motion to deny and deny it. Or again, we, you know, we do that once, we do it maybe maybe twice or but if they don't have everything we need to make that decision by the second or third, then we can just deny it and they're not just coming back, coming back, coming back. But we would we would essentially table it at the first meeting, which will now be the only meeting. We would table it. They would give us any other information. it would come back up as an agenda item the next month and then we would potentially make a motion and act on it at that point. I would feel for Jen. [clears throat and cough]

Honestly, it's the same amount, by the way. And I think the important thing to notice, even if they're coming to that next meeting, that next month, we're not charging a fee. They're not going through the application processing. They're just getting additional information that was requested to us. But you have to explain it. Correct. But I mean I think there's less liability having them provide the information themselves than must go hunting for it because again with that quiet judicial we technically are not supposed to be hunting for information. No, we're supposed to just act on what's in front of us. And so then then the second meeting is useless any

in a conditional use situation. And Mills is telling me now all of them are quasi jurisic judicial some are not. So this kind of to me is is a ca so that they're all in open forum now. We're not potentially not shooting ourselves in the foot and doing doing our due diligence is what we would think somebody would say, you know, breaking the law or going against the quas judicial system. So I like the idea of now the public can speak.

Yeah. the most important that always felt funny to me is like, gee, you got people here want to have input on what the situation is and say, no, this meeting you can't talk. So, I like the idea. So, now there would be no meetings where where I'd have to shut anyone down. Yes. Unless they were out of turn or out of order. Right. I think the one meeting format works very well for a lot of communities and they've been doing it for me. The village has been doing it for decades and it seems to work out pretty well. Y and if there is a rush situation where somebody needs to come back right away, there's nothing stopping a special meeting. Sure. To do that.

Sure. Did that for the sewage district? We have just only time I've ever done one. But yeah, but agreed. Agreed. Um, are we supposed to make take action on this? So, I think I'd like to take action one at a time. If we could on on 3A, if we could. Yes. Make a motion that we move to one meeting for my We have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. All those in favor?

I opposed. Motion carries. Then the next item on the agenda was just the possibility of changing the meeting from Wednesday to Tuesday. The biggest reason, again, I was kind of like, you know, I'm the grumpy old man. Change is change is bad. But this when when we decide on Wednesday, Jen, you have what you say like 8 hours in the morning to get it ready or No, no, I have till 9:00 a.m. the next day. So late tomorrow morning by 9:00 a.m. She has to have the resolution for what we approve tonight. So if there are five that's five resolutions I'm staying tonight to have ready for tomorrow because I cannot do that.

Right. Right. So that would give her an extra 24 hours. Um you know we're not in in shooting on any board you know Tom board. I think it's a no-brainer and especially if it makes your life easier, it doesn't make my hurt my feelings at all. The only thing I have is I have ski club on with the elementary school on Tuesdays. Five weeks. I was going to say the other option is to move like to the second or third Wednesday because then it would be for the next month meeting.

Sure. I mean, if but if we do do a Tuesday, the first Tuesday, then we could still get it. I mean that that gives you 24 extra hours to get it on the agenda for town board following Monday and if you think that's okay. Great. Do or or would you rather see timeline for Kim at all or does that work for me to get that to Kim? Thursday. Thursday because I mean this is Thursday and you want this packet presumably sooner than that as a town board because they're only getting Friday, Saturday, Sunday to look at the packet Monday decision. I mean those are loaded agendas.

So that's the whole purpose of moving up this timeline for me is because it it's a loaded agenda. Sure. The only so all the other agenda items are due by Wednesday. Well, actually the by Tuesday of the meeting and then we don't have this until Wednesday. So then it would still be like the last thing added to the packet. Um whereas if we like the second week then it would be plenty of time for the next month's meeting and then have it at the same time and then I don't know

and then I don't know when the county meets what week right after the board. So it's usually that third Thursday or not the second the second Monday and then they meet the third. So then it it and again I don't really care when we meet. So if it was the second say we leave it Wednesday but second Wednesday it would whatever stew until the following second Monday of the following month and you guys would have plenty of time and then it would still have time to go from town board to county. Um

if Wednesday if if anybody's here is like hey Tuesdays are terrible I bull on Tuesdays or whatever fine you know and so if it's second or do we leave it third Wednesday I mean because I guess just cancel the first Wednesday and leave third Wednesday since we're now on a one and then we make that first Wednesday like you see here on the schedule on the TV you could we could make that date the due date for the packet two weeks. So instead of having that written as initial request, I could write a packet and then this is posted on the website. Okay, I know this is going to be due no matter what month I'm applying. That's my date. Y

I I'm using that decision making kind of poster there. So I mean that is an option that would be maybe more clear for the Sure. you make an [laughter] um is there any other any other discussion? I I just think we have to be very careful about making it clear when we're making these changes um for the public. Sure. Sure. I mean, we'll figure it out. Correct. Correct. Um

I mean I guess like any other change it'll be posted right and I guess also if when someone comes in Rich to you know hand their stuff in okay you know to do this date and the meeting date is the third Wednesday the meetings on Wednesdays sure process I feel okay know when the debate is You know, very rarely does someone come in without actually having a conversation first. I think the only one who would be shocked would be my person because he just is so good at the so long time. He just does it. Sure. So,

but he also has to turn it in at one point and Right. So, I probably call him [laughter] Well, then you got to call Lynch and then you have to call all the other surveyors in the in the town. They always call me just Okay. Okay. Any other discussion then? I mean, I would make a motion that we switch to the third Wednesday of the month. I second. We have a motion. We have a second. All those in favor? I opposed. Motion carries. Is there any other business amongst commissioners? Any public comment? Then I would take a motion to adjurnn. You adjourn. We have a motion. We have a second. Second.

All those in favor? I. I oppose. We're journed. Thank you.