Council - Regular Meeting

Welcome everyone to the East Lansing City Council discussion only meeting of May 19th, 2026. The meeting will come to order. Could we have the roll call please?

Council Member Whalen. Here. Council Member Meadows. Here. Council Member Singh. Here. Mayor Pro Tem Grigsby. Here. Mayor Altman.

Here. Is there a motion to approve the agenda?

So moved.

Moved by Meadows. Second. Second by Grigsby. Any discussion of the agenda? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Agenda's approved. Communications from the audience. I will call the slips in the order that I have received them. First speaker is Erika Dziedzic Hernandez.

Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening. I'm an employee of the City of East Lansing. I report directly to the city manager. My purpose tonight is to share my experience working for Robert Bellman. Since the city manager reports directly to you, I feel it is important for you to understand my experience. In 2025, Robert sexually harassed me and was verbally abusive towards me. His nickname for me was Too Easy. The first time he said it to me, I had no idea what he meant. As a defense mechanism, I quickly turned it into a harmless joke. He would frequently say to me, you're too easy and laugh. To me, it felt like he was insulting either my intelligence or my sexuality.

Either way, I hated it.

But I truly didn't know what to do.

He's my boss and the city manager.

His former assistant witnessed him calling me this nickname on numerous occasions. It got so bad that she pulled me aside and told me she didn't like how Robert talked to me. I told her I was fine and I could handle it. One evening, Robert and I were leaving City Hall together. We were alone. As we walked down the stairs, Robert joked and said, come on pokey. I told him that I'm slow on the stairs because my knees are bad. Robert responded by muttering too easy under his breath. I felt disgusted and embarrassed. I immediately pretended like the incident never happened. On another occasion, Robert threatened my job. We were discussing a grant and he asked me rapid fired questions. He looked and acted frustrated. When Robert is upset, he tends to ask me questions in such quick succession that I don't have time to think of a response before he is on to his next question. As a result, I feel stupid and he acts as if he is in control. Such was this occasion. He angrily said, why do I now have two grant writers? How much do you, an unnamed co-worker, make combined in one year? $150,000? That would ease the city's budget deficit if I didn't have to pay for two grant writers. His former assistant witnessed this interaction and looked visibly shocked. Robert tried to intimidate me to follow his direction. He gave me instructions and I saved and I asked him questions, which led to a discussion. As he walked away from me, he mumbled something and laughed. I asked him what he said. He looked at me and smirked. He walked towards me, leaned in very close and whispered, I trump everybody. He laughed out loud as he left my office. I reported these incidents on others using the proper channels as directed by city policy. An investigation opened and closed. To my knowledge, Robert has not been held accountable or received consequences for his actions. I do not see measurable change in his behavior. Yes, the sexual harassment and outright verbal abuse directed at me has stopped, but that is a very low bar. When someone treats you in a degrading way and makes you feel less than, it stays with you. I am deeply concerned that he could repeat his behavior. Publicly, the city manager can appear friendly and thoughtful, however, he is a different person behind closed doors. Every day, I never know which Robert I will encounter, and it is stressful to consistently work in this environment. Three members of the 2023 East Lansing City Council hired Robert Bellman. even though his past in Saginaw County is well known. I filed my complaint against the City Manager during the tenure of the 2025 City Council. I ask this Council to do what the previous Councils could not. I ask you to break the cycle of abuse and hold the City Manager accountable. Silence perpetuates abuse. And I am done being silent. You have 30 seconds remaining.

Thank you. Thank you. Rashida Harrison.

Good evening. My name is Dr. Rashida Harrison. I'm a candidate for State Senate District 28, which is this district, a community member, and I am a mother of a little boy. I attended the press conference last week and had the honor of hugging Karen Kirby, Isaiah's mother. I attended because Isaiah could have been one of my students, and when I look at his picture, I know he could be my son. I am also here, I'm sorry, I'm here tonight for two reasons actually. First, I know firsthand the fear black mothers have for their children, knowing the dangers they face every day for just existing, while praying that you never have to face losing your child to state violence. I am also here because what I witnessed last week made something clear to me. When a city's response to community grief is to manage it rather than meet it, there is a governance problem. This is not just a police problem. Honestly I couldn't watch the video. I've been watching black men killed publicly by police officers my entire life. So I read and watched reports and talked to community members. And what we learn is officers open fired on Isaiah even as non lethal options were available. His mother counted at least 17 gunshot wounds including many to his back. The family's attorney stated that officers continued to fire after he had already fallen to the ground. The question before this council is not simply what the law permits. The question is what kind of community are we choosing to be? I also want to name what happened in the room last week. This council voted to reduce public comment from five minutes to three and to ban the act of clapping or other forms of human emotion to issues of justice and injustice. A former council member named it clearly. She said, now that the black and brown people are showing up, suddenly there's a resolution that reduces our public comment. These measures appear to give the council reason to bar community members. Essentially, you've criminalized the sound of solidarity. We are living in a moment where black and brown voices are being silenced and shut down at every level of this country, federally, legislatively, institutionally. I would hope that here at home we would choose differently. that this would be the place where we resist that urge and not replicate it. I would hope that we choose democracy, allowing the people's voices to be heard. I am imploring you, please govern using a politics of care where the people are centered. It is not only possible to do your jobs and govern empathetically, It is the only way to ethically actually do it. The people in this room are not a problem to be managed. We are your constituents and we are watching.

Thank you. Rebecca Kazin.

My name is Rebecca Kaysen. I come here as a private citizen, not on behalf of any commissions, organizations, or campaigns I'm connected to. I'm here because I'm furious. I'm here because Isaiah Kirby's blood is on your hands. For more than six months, this community has come before you, begging you to confront the racism inside the East Lansing Police Department. We came here with testimony, with evidence, with pain, and every single time, this council chose self-preservation over accountability. Isaiah Kirby's blood is on your hands. In August, two innocent young black men were pepper sprayed by an East Lansing police officer. Innocent. Instead of protecting those young men, Chief Jen Brown went on television and painted them as criminals. She released their names, charged them, lied about what they had or had not done, and she just continued to spread false narratives. She warned people that minorities from outside the community are coming here to commit crimes. There are children. They live here. Blackness itself was just enough to justify suspicion. This is why Isaiah Kirby's blood is on your hands. We demanded accountability. We demanded Chief Brown resign or be terminated. We demanded discipline for every officer involved. Instead, the city circled its wagons. One officer quietly resigned, and everyone else was protected by this machine. Isaiah's blood is on your hands. And while residents begged you to address the racism, this council spent its energy trying to silence dissent. You tried to bully the Human Rights Commission when we investigated the discrimination. You advanced racist ordinances disguised as public safety. At your last meeting, you went so far as to pass rules threatening residents with removal or arrest for clapping, cheering, or cheering at public meetings. Clapping, cheering, human emotion. You call it decorum. Let's call it what it really is. Control. Respectability politics. White supremacy wrapped up in parliamentary procedure. You are more disturbed by loud residents than by armed officers brutalizing black people. You are more offended by disruption in this chamber than by violence in the streets. You sit here demanding silence from the public while empowering people with guns, bazars, and immunity to kill. Isaiah's blood is on your hands. Then came Isaiah. A human being in the middle of a mental health crisis. A man holding a knife to his own neck. A man who needed intervention, compassion, distance, de-escalation, and trained crisis response. I know those responses are possible because I've lived it. I had to call 911 for a family member having a mental health crisis. The East Lansing police who responded treated my family member with patience, kindness, empathy, and humanity. Nobody fired 17 bullets. Nobody treated this person like a monster. Nobody decided their life was disposable. And so I have to ask the question this council refuses to confront. Why was compassion available for my family member but not Isaiah? Is it because my family member was white? Are we living in an apartheid city where public services, safety, patience, empathy, and humanity are reserved for people with less melanin? Because that's what this looks like. Isaiah's blood is on your hands. This department loves to brag about its CRIT training, mental health first aid, de-escalation, community policing. You hold press conferences and trainings and photo ops to convince the public that these officers are prepared to preserve life. But when the moment came to prove it, they emptied 17 bullets into a man in crisis, 17 shots. Not one officer decided that Isaiah's life was worth slowing down for. Not one officer decided to try and use non-lethal force. Funny how this department had no problem pepper spraying innocent black men a few months ago, but suddenly forgot every non-lethal option when a black man's life was actually hanging in the balance. That is not public safety. That is not protection. That is a publicly funded execution. Isaiah's blood is on your hands. And every single one of you who stays silent shares the responsibility. Every council member who hides behind waiting for investigations, every official who refuses to challenge Chief Brown, every person in this body who cares more about the city's image than the lives being destroyed by the people acting in your name. This did not happen in a vacuum. You were warned over and over and over again. You were warned that there was a cultural problem inside this department. You were warned about racism, about escalation, about hostility towards the community. And instead of acting, you treated the people sounding the alarm like they were the problem. Now a man is dead. Isaiah's blood is on your hands. and i do not want to hear thoughts and prayers i do not want to hear carefully scripted condolences 30 seconds remaining i do not want to hear about another task force another statement another promise to listen and learn we are far beyond that what happened to isaiah kirby was not an unavoidable tragedy it was the predictable outcome of a police culture that this council continues to protect a culture where black people are treated as threats first and human beings second a culture where criticism is dismissed accountability is delayed and violence is excused You built this. You defended it. You enabled it. Isaiah's blood is on your hands.

Thank you. Kath Edsel. Kath Edsel.

six months of us pointing out racism and more than likely it'll be sexual harassment that takes him down that's white supremacy three hundred years of humiliation abuse and deprivation cannot be expected to find voice in a whisper martin luther king junior While this council has made it clear they would prefer that we whisper, we are here to say hell no. A system of oversight that requires public comment is a system that does not want to be informed. A system that treats black dignity like a provocation and not a birthright is a white supremacist system. We are angry, we are frustrated, and we foretold this outcome for months and years before today. by now most if not all of us have seen the video footage released by the city of the police killing of isaiah christopher kirby most of us sitting in the gallery can hold space for two truths mr malek's assault was horrific and mr kirby's death was unnecessarily caused by excessive force committed by the east lansing police department After impaneling national and local experts on use of force, the East Lansing Independent Police Oversight Commission crafted a draft rewrite of ELPD's use of force policy in 2023. The department declined to implement our suggestions and chose to stick with the bare minimum standards and current paramilitarized training. One suggestion we made was to add the following. The Department recognizes and respects the sanctity and value of each human life and gives the highest priority to the preservation of human life and safety for all people involved. The Department initially declined but later added this because it was required for accreditation. We suggested that they keep the 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendments in the forefront as the lowest bar. They declined. The Fifth Amendment reads in part, no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. Mr. Kirby was deprived all three. We also suggested they include the U.S. Supreme Court decision, Tennessee versus Garner, which concluded that the use of deadly force is reasonable if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to other officers or others. How is a man laying on the ground, already shot multiple times, who appears to be holding a knife to his own throat, a significant threat? We are angry, we are heartbroken, and we know that 300 years of humiliation, abuse, and deprivation will not end today. We know this for many reasons, including a comprehensive police violence report released by the nonprofit research organization Mapping Police Violence shows that at least 1,201 people were killed by law enforcement officers across the United States in 2025. So far in 2026, 449 individuals have been killed, including 96 black people, or 22% of the total deaths in a country where black people comprise approximately 12% of the population. There have only been five days so far this year where police officers not killed someone. 95% of the deaths involving police officers resulted from police shootings. We also know that fewer than 1% of police-related killings result in officers being charged with a crime, with charges filed in only eight cases in 2025. Furthermore, black prosecutors, particularly black women, primarily represented those who pursued criminal charges in police-related deaths from 2013 to 2025. Although black women make up only 1% of elected prosecutors nationwide, they account for 8% of prosecutors who filed charges against officers. 9% of those who secured convictions and 16% of prosecutors who brought charges in two or more deadly force incidences. The Michigan's AG office is run by a white woman. The Ingham County prosecutor is a white man. There is no justice for a black man in a system of whiteness so entrenched on preserving white supremacy. As this council continues to focus on process and procedures, families are hurting in large part because process has never meant justice. East Lansing can and must do better than the lowest bar. I will close with another quote from Martin Luther King, Jr. For years, I have heard the word wait. This wait has almost always meant never. Thank you.

Thank you. Erica Schmidt Deal.

Hello, my name is Erica Schmidt Deal. I am a social worker, and I'm a resident of East Lansing. I am here to ask for resignations from Jen Brown, and I was not planning to ask for a resignation from Mr. Bellman, but now I will, having heard the first speaker of today. I find it appalling that Mr. Bellman would state that he is going to be transparent and that the city will be transparent with the Michigan State Police and the investigation when Ellie Pak's ability to do anything in terms of advancing racial justice in policing in East Lansing has been curtailed. Really Use of force and racial profiling are not issues that just go back six months. I know, thanks to many of our community members, these issues are getting much more attention in the last six months. But East Lansing has always been a sundown town. I think everybody knows that and I think it's time that we stop pretending. It's not I Think we need some radical changes Here in our city to make it more welcoming and more safe for people of color And I think we should really consider When has the NAACP ever been on the wrong side of history and if they are calling for resignations, we should listen Thank you any cases

Annie Kaysen.

Hello, my name is Annie Kaysen. I am six years old and and in kindergarten at Red Cedar Elementary School. I came here months ago, talked about how the police weren't fair to people with different skin colors. My young five teacher, Ms. Brace, taught me how to be . She taught me that when something is wrong, you are supposed to speak up even when it is hard. My kindergarten teacher Ms. Manetta taught me about perseverance, not giving up when things are hard. And so I have to come back again. And again, because grown-ups who are supposed to lead and protect people are not listening. A man named Isaiah died after police didn't use their I'm autistic. What happens when I am older? If I am having a really bad day, are the police going to hurt me or help me? If you say that they are going to help me, is it only because of the colors of my skin? My mom taught me that when someone is hurt or having a hard time, you are supposed to to help them calm down and keep everyone safe. You're not supposed to make things worse. Grownups tell kids, to use our words, to be patient, and to care about other people. I think police officers should have to do that too. I do not think people should be treated differently because of the color of their skin. I do not think people having a really bad day should be killed. It is not fair that kids have to keep asking grownups to do the right thing. I want East Lansing to be a city where everyone is safe and treated fairly. I want to listen when people say something is wrong. And I want you to be brave enough to fix it. Thank you.

Thank you, Nicole Kiway Biber.

Good evening. Interesting to see the in the agenda, the training update that we're gonna be privy to apparently later. It says things like de-escalation, trauma recognition and mental resilience, ethical policing, building trust, professionalism. I think it was maybe Sunday, I actually had an interaction with the East Lansing Police Department on my suburban street, very quiet place. I look out the window, I see one of their vehicles, three officers across the street from me, there's a black family. There's a young man standing and speaking with them. Well, even right now, my heart starts racing. So I go out and go to get my mail, because it's across the street. And I asked my neighbor, are you OK? He says, yeah. I said, you gave them permission to go into your house? He's like, yeah, I'm OK. I said, OK. And I said, ready? Just go across the street. checking in on him. And one of the officers says, ma'am, we'll come talk to you afterwards if you want. I was like, whatever, okay. So I stand and I watch and there's a bit more movement and eventually the young man goes inside and they come over to my side of the street. And they say, oh, did you have a question about something? I said, I just wanted to make sure he was okay. They're like, oh, well, they called us in. I was like, OK, thanks. I just want to make sure he was fine. That could have been it, right? That was the interaction we talked about. One of the officers says, is there a reason you assume maybe things weren't OK? I was like, wow. I was like, okay. I mean, I'll bite. I'm not scared to speak up. I was like, a lifetime of experience. I was like, I'm a brown person. I grew up in a black neighborhood. I see something like this, I'm going to ask if they're okay. The officer who, by the way, is the biggest tactical gear vest you can picture, ends up saying to me, well, I don't even think of that. I was like, well, okay, well, I do. And I guess you have the privilege not to. He says, I'm not hyper-focused on race. So who here thinks that's not an implication that I am? But of course, when I say that, I'm like, oh, I don't think I'm hyper-focused. I was telling you my life experience. And he says, I wasn't saying you were. I was just talking about me. Oh my gosh. This is over and over the way it's framed. The problem is us. Y'all don't see color, right? That's supposed to be like the magic wand that says racism doesn't exist except in your head. So you see things like trauma recognition. I directly disclose my life experience. His return to me is, you're hyper-focused on race. Oh, excuse me, he's not. Building trust and professionalism, incredibly condescending. Geared up with tactical vests does not make me feel safe. So y'all are the ones sitting in these positions. You can call for a resignation of that police chief, and it sounds like you need to do one for the city manager as well. And by the way, limiting people's time to comment, I was kind of proud of East Lansing, like wow, we get five minutes. I have so many situations in my life where I get just bare few minutes to say something that's, in this case, a life and death matter. When you limit time, you're undermining the voices of the differently abled. Did you think about that? I've encountered so many people are so nervous, are not used to public experience. Our voices matter deeply to one another. That's why people are probably watching at home. That's why people came here. We want to hear each other. Why don't our voices matter to East Lansing leadership? And what is it you're thinking to lead us to? 30 seconds remaining. You should be listening and thinking this is the most important part of every single meeting because it is.

Thank you. Kayla Gomez.

Hello, my name is Kayla Gomez, resident of East Lansing. I'm up here basically to, again, ask for the resignation of Jen Brown and Bellman. So everybody else has done a great job. I will let them speak.

Thank you. Carla Forrest-Hewitt.

Good evening, my name is Carla Forrest-Hewitt. I spoke last week about how much It is important for us to move forward in a different way. All the voices that shared their opinions today are important. I don't think that we can move forward without trying to involve change. We cannot disregard the things that are said. Silence from leadership is a dismissal. using policy as a stone wall to prevent voices from being shared is also problematic. I think that the employee who came forward and shared her story should be listened to and this shouldn't be the platform where it is shared. It is really, really horrendous that someone who had this experience has to come publicly and share this in an open forum. In addition to that, my son is here today as a person that I care deeply about and their other mothers. Rashida shared her story about being a parent and I think that As a small community, we have the ability to make changes that are impactful. We can make it where East Lansing could be a place where when you come, you know the police officer is gonna tell you good morning and wish you a good day, not dress you down, right? And it is so appalling to me that We cannot, we hide behind this idea that there's potential danger. But by putting officers in this space, you're inviting that vibration. I do not understand why this is the move that you make. All of you have lived experience, and this has never happened in this space since we've been doing this in the Hanna Community Center. And I have worked here. And this is something that I do not think will happen unless you invite that. And I also think that the training that our police officers have on a global scale and on a national scale needs to change, because this is not something that helps us respond to the needs of our community. Police officers are supposed to protect and serve, not dominate and kill. And so, with that said, What are you going to do going forward? I mean, so many voices have been shared, recorded. Things have been said. Things have been put in the news. There's a history. There are things that have been done before this council that have worked. Why are we not looking to those changes? Why isn't there representation in the city that represents the diversity of our community? Why won't we put people in leadership positions, they do not represent the community. This is why we continue to have the same decisions. This is why a lot of the work that I try to do to create spaces of belonging has been rolled back when I left. And I'm really, really tired of trying to hope that you do better. I think Going forward, the weeks, the days, the months, every decision that you make going forward should be a thing to do better, to include voices. Even if you don't like what is being said, listen and think about how it might be something useful, impactful. If you don't have children, talk to people who have children and experiences that are meaningful, okay? It is sheer terror a mother feels when she lets her child go into the world, knowing that when they grow up, the world will start seeing them differently because of their skin color. And I've seen it happen. When Isaiah was small, he used to be adorable. And then just by association, he becomes a person of interest. And he's still young. And I'm not making it up. It is not in my imagination. And so, as others have said, we need to hold our police officers accountable. When people do wrong, they should be held accountable. It should not just only be for some, okay? It should be for everyone. Everybody should be held accountable for when they do wrong. And I think that... 30 seconds remaining. I'm really disappointed. I'm very disappointed. I'm so disappointed it hurts.

Thank you. Josh Hewitt.

Hello, everyone. I really have no idea what I'm going to say. I feel like I'm trapped in this loop coming here. It's tough, but either way. Last week, during Commissioner comment, Mark Meadows, I think he addressed something Tajmika said. And she said that pretty much if we saw the video footage, chances are most of us would not have been here. Mark Meadows said he doesn't think that's true. It's interesting that you guys address stuff when you choose to address stuff, and important stuff you guys just choose not to address. I want to ask you, Mark Meadows, and I hope you can answer this question when you have your commission to comment. You said, you pretty much said that what James McCurdy Jr. from the NAACP said in terms of the officer lunging, Isaiah Kirby lunging at the officer, you said what he said was contradictory. You said that he lunged at the officer. I showed the video to so many people and I watched it myself. I even showed it to a police officer. I have a cousin who's a police officer in New York. I was like, man, I call him. I was like, objectively, I'm not going to tell you what I think. I want you to look at this video footage objectively. Call me back and tell me what you think. I asked him, did the police officer lunge? He gave me a lot of feedback about a lot of things that were handled, in his opinion, not correctly, but some things that were handled correctly as well, just to be honest with you guys. I asked him specifically, did the police officer lunge? Did Isaiah Kirby lunge at a police officer? And he said no. So my question to you, Mark Meadows, is I'm pretty sure that you saw the video footage that came out Friday. Just address that for me. If you were wrong, just admit that you were wrong. That's all I'm asking. Robert Bellman, I hate to go back on this, but the reason we're in this position is honestly because of you and the decisions that you made in terms of hiring Jen Brown. I mentioned this in public comment months ago, and again, I had to sit down with you, and I asked you not to hire Jen Brown. So again, a lot of this stuff is seeming to be reactive, but again, it's not reactive. Again, we're just frustrated, and we've been asking, we've been asking, we've been asking, and you guys are just not listening. When a lot of community members showed up for the meet and greet for the police officers that were running for the police chief position, again, I said this in public comment, you made the whole thing seem as if we had some sort of, our input would be valued, but again, it was just a complete joke. You didn't listen to us at all. So again, this is why we're in this position. Kerry's saying, you might consider yourself white. I don't know if you are. You have a husband who's not white, clearly. You have a son who's clearly, obviously not white. I just hope you guys don't wait until this happens to your own kids that you start taking action. Please. You guys stand behind these institutions and all this talk about lawsuits and all this BS. What happened to those guys downtown? It never had to get to a lawsuit. You guys should have told Jen Brown, hey, let's just meet together and talk and we can make this right. So don't say just because it's a lawsuit now you can't say anything. Again, don't wait till it happens to you to say something and do something. Chuck, I don't have anything to say to you. Eric Altman. Jen Brown said that minorities come to East Lansing to commit crimes. The criminals I'm seeing actually also came from outside of East Lansing. Robert Bellman doesn't live, he lives in Saginaw. I think Hetzel said like 85% of the police officers are from outside of East Lansing. You're from Canada. You came to the United States to do the things that you do. When you retire from MSU and you decide to, you and your wife Kathy, when you guys decide to retire, you're probably going to run back to Canada and leave the mess for a lot of people to clean up. That's not cool at all. You have no kids here. You have nothing that's keeping you here and making you want to do the right thing. You're going to run back to Canada. That's it. You're gone. We don't hear from you anymore. You don't come here. You don't come to somebody else's country to do the things that you're doing. Again, I wonder who the criminals are here. Robert Bellman and you. Mark Meadows, my wife used to work for the city. She's had interactions with you before. I would say, Carla, Mark seems to me like a decent guy. I keep having some sort of level of hope in you and Keri Singh to do the right thing. I've been saying this for months. I've been asking you guys for months to do the right thing. Steve Whelan, my wife has had interaction with you as well as a police officer. I don't know much about you and that's why I've never said anything. I've never come up here and said anything bad about you because I don't know much about you. We need three people. I asked for one, but I realize one is not going to make a lot of change in terms of stuff that we're trying to do in terms of policing and just racial justice in East Lansing. I'm asking for three of you guys. You have 30 seconds remaining. Please do the right thing. Steve Whelan, Mark Meadows, Kerry Singh, please, just again, I've been asking for months. Please do the right thing. Eric Altman, I shook your hand last week and I thought like after all these people gave public comments about like not limiting public comment to three minutes that you would do the right thing. And again, you just continue to disappoint. Yeah, that's all I got to say. You all have a good night, all right?

Thank you. Amanda Morgan.

Hello, thank you. I'm going to take a sip real quick. I am here today as a guest. I stuck around this town because after I went to MSU and I really liked it. I like this culture in this community. I felt like we had a mix of people and a middle class that was progressive. I'm here today to kind of address one simple thing, bureaucracy versus community and leadership. You can't be a leader in bureaucracy. You're a rules and order people. We're seeing that here today. When you use rules and order to tell the community what to do, you galvanize a movement. Congratulations. You've galvanized a movement. You know, the best way to reduce public comment is to listen. You know, pepper spray is not a deescalation tool. A vigil is. And just because we have rule and order that silos information up and down a chain of command, there was nothing that stopped you from holding a vigil, Mayor. People are here today because they're challenging you to grow, to take the community as a whole, not just be a bureaucrat that takes care of the people who put money in your pocket, not just take care of white culture and middle class and academia. I'm a white person telling on myself because I care about you all. And you're kind of doing it wrong. You're doubling down on power and control. not on active listening in community. In February 2020, George Floyd lost his life to a police officer. In June 2020, I talked to my business that I work for, that's public mental health, and I said, there's a problem coming and I'm worried. And in that letter, I described exactly what I was afraid of. I didn't tell the bureaucrats in my business that stuff because I wanted to be a good old tushy, I'm sorry, you know what I mean. I told them because I cared about the people in the system that were doing the jobs, that things were coming and I was using my foresight to try to prepare us. I am here today to continue to advocate that you all strip off some cultural privilege that you received, and the higher up you go with power, the more people kiss your butt. In bureaucracy, praise goes uphill and shit rolls downhill. Excuse my language. I will speak to you today, Chuck. I see you. It took a lot of acclimating to white culture to be where you're at. Sometimes we have to completely shut off our community and what it's going through to survive white culture. And your community today is just asking you to be brave enough to risk your whiteness. They will have your back. if you call this BS out. Same for you. Your husband's a man of color, you're a white woman, and until you do the work, you can be a racist too. Again, I go back to, I stuck around this area and community because I really like the space and place and people. It's an intersection of strength and power. I'm really sad and I'm not surprised that white culture and MSU and East Lansing are doing the bureaucrat way, rule in order. And by the way, if this is the advice of your city manager, he's really doing you wrong. Before the next meeting, I hope you all set up a vigil. People may not show up because they don't trust you. or set up a, I don't know, something. At this point, you gotta step down and listen to people. I appreciate your time.

Thank you. Yesenka Murillo.

Good evening. I am a concerned Lansing neighbor and a mother of a mixed Afro Latino who's five years old. I used to live in East Lansing as well. I stand before you tonight carrying grief, anger, and urgency after the killing of Isaiah, a young black community member that got shot by police. Too often these moments are reduced to headlines, statistics, Investigations or public relations statements. Our community deserves better. We deserve transparency, accountability, and action, not silence, delay, or defensiveness. We deserve systems that protect life while acknowledging race, and not regardless of, but acknowledging race, neighborhood, age, or background. Acknowledge treatment differs based on race, ethnicity, and skin color. That's a good start. And we deserve leaders willing to confront the reality that black and brown community members continue to experience policing differently and more dangerously than others. Tonight, I ask the council to do more. Invest in community-based safety and crisis response strategies. Community-led. Let your community tell you they know the best way to do things for community, by community. Strengthen accountability measures and civilian oversight. Commit to ongoing dialogue with impacted families and communities, not only in moments of tragedy, but consistently. This is not a conversation about anti-police or whatever we wanna call it. This is a conversation about pro-accountability and pro-humanity. We've lost humanity. We're losing humans, literally. For many black community members, incidents like this reopen generations of pain and fear. Young people are watching closely. They are asking whether their lives are truly valued and whether those in power will protect them or protect systems from scrutiny. Your response matters. We cannot build trust without truth. We cannot build safety without justice. And we cannot ask communities to heal while avoiding the changes necessary to prevent future harm.

Thank you. Abby Takaki.

I currently serve on the East Lansing School Board, but my comments today are my own. Mayor Altman, I urge you to reject the idea that we should simply let the process play out. Delay is not neutral, delay has consequences. And you were not elected to observe problems, you were elected to respond to them. And I know you're capable of acting quickly when you choose to because when a drunk driver destroyed my elderly white neighbor's mailbox, you were there to check in on her before I even made my morning cup of coffee. So I have to ask, where is that same urgency now? Why does a mailbox seem to inspire faster action than the lives of young black men? Waiting for another procedural step protects bureaucracy, but it does not protect the public. Strong leadership is politically inconvenient, and I understand the attorneys and city manager do not want you to speak out or take action, but you were not elected to protect lawyer's procedure or liability management. You were elected. You were not elected to make the city manager's job easier or give a failing chief of police endless opportunities to demonstrate that she understands the population she is serving and is capable of protecting them. Your job is to make sure they are doing their jobs. History will not remember who followed procedure. I support the demands that will be put forward by the Citizens for Justice group later tonight and I ask that you act on them immediately. And I also serve as chair of the Lansing Regional Smart Zone and I am charged by the city of East Lansing to promote tech entrepreneurship and stem the flow of brain drain out of this area from MSU and I can't do that with the reputation that we're building here in the city right now. I am also a crisis advocate for the MSU Center for Survivors. I believe survivors. I was also once party to a lawsuit against a municipality for gender-based pay discrimination. And I met you, Council Member Singh, at a gathering when you were campaigning at Maureen McCabe Power's house. And I asked you what you were going to do when this exact thing happens, because we knew it was going to. And I think you said something about allowing more opportunity for city employees to be able to air their grievances or something. It's not a great answer, but I thought that's okay. She's on the campaign trail. Probably nobody's asked her that yet. Hopefully she'll think about it now. Is that what this was? I know Ms. Hernandez. She's a friend of mine. Please, all of you, do better.

Thank you. Tashmika Torok.

Hello, I am trying to gather myself because I also know Erica. She is a former employee of mine. And I'm so full of rage. I'm not sure that you are aware of what just happened. I'm a survivor of child sexual abuse. Most of my body of work is related to sexual violence. Most of my body of work is related to stopping people from being violent in intimate ways. The patterns of violence that have to do with power and control are happening here. When survivors speak, you silence them. You shorten the time that they can speak. When people show up for them, you close off half the room. When they tell you you protect the city, you do not protect the person. The only reason for any of you to sit here and act like due process matters is because you were protecting this fucking city from when they win that lawsuit, because then you will really be broke. The reason why you are okay with what has happened to the black people in this community is because you are operating on power and control. You have allowed this city to operate on the same dynamics that allow sexual violence to happen in the first place. you are sitting in a dais right here with a perpetrator of sexual violence. You have enabled police violence against your own community that shows up every day and you act like you're being victimized by it. You act like this is the worst possible thing that can happen, that you have all these people you have to listen to. Do you know how much love and faith it requires for people with generational trauma to get up and come here and talk to you every week as if our humanity is in question? There are people here who won't speak to you because their nervous systems can't handle it. And you should fucking leave. We are not waiting for a process. If you wanted to do something, you could. If you wanted to choose the people over the city's budget and the risk of what a lawsuit means, you could. If you wanted to believe Erica when she came the first time, you fucking could have done it. You are victimizing this community by making us wait. And I hope you understand that. that you are in the lineage of white supremacy that didn't allow black people to even move here in the first place in 1968 when the HRC was created. You ask us to come, you say we're listening, and nothing happens. We ask you questions, you say, I don't know, I need your help. What more could we tell you? What more policy proposals could we bring you? What more statistics could we bring you? If you would like the info, if you'd like to, my name is Tajmika Torok, you can find me, there is literally no one else with this name, but if you would like the information about how child sexual abuse and perpetration of violence and the dynamics come together to create exactly the fucking dynamic we're experiencing right now, let me know. I have a digital archive that I would love to send you. This is unacceptable. It is unacceptable that this is what you require of people who are being oppressed by the police in this community. When you go back in that room and you talk, you should not, first of all, be sharing the table with someone who sexually harassed one of your employees, first of all. Second of all, you can do things now. You can fire Jen Brown today. You can fire this sexual predator right now, and you can offer a fucking policy that actually changes the way that the police interact with people of color in this community, because they are dying. Because a child sat on the floor, cutting his own fucking throat, and they shot him more than 10 times. And we all watched it. And you know, just like fucking sexual violence and the Epstein files, you all want to tell us what we saw. Like I don't have eyes in my head. Like this is not the first time. Or like this is the first time we've ever seen police shoot black people. There was no lunging. There was a child, a human being who was hurting themselves. And then they performed medical aid. Hey bro, we want to help you. Just put the knife down. Oh, get the chest seals. You don't even roll them over. You zip tie his hands and leave him on the ground to die. It is unacceptable. You should be ashamed of yourself. If you are not ashamed, then you should be embarrassed. It's disgusting.

Thank you. Maximilian Muckleberry. Maximilian Muckleberry. You know you can pause for a second before they say the names.

Hello. So I'm actually, my name is Max Huckleberry. I'm from Lansing and I did work all day, but then I drove myself here to do this because that's how much I care because I'm horrified. You know, like when people, when I first heard about this happening, I was like, oh no, it didn't happen again, did it? Right? I mean, you know, the thing that cops do where they like hurt people and they didn't need to, that they do all the time. This isn't even the first person in proximity to me through community that has been killed by the police this year that I know. This is crazy. This happened 10 minutes from where I sleep at night. It keeps me up, honestly. I like to usually try to take all the information available to me before I try to write something to say at a council, but I could only watch one body cam angle one time. because it was so terrible. I will never unsee that, ever. I hope if you watched it, you will never forget it either. Because what I saw was You know, we don't know what happened before that, but you know, he's a suspect and obviously that's, he shouldn't have done those things if he did. I don't think anyone's arguing about that, but it didn't even look like he was running at the police. He was just running. He did something terrible and he was running away from it. That's what it looked like. And then they shot him multiple times. He fell on the ground, started hurting himself with his own knife, and then they shot him more. How is that okay? Like, and then they use a riot shield to pin his hands down after shooting him over a dozen times just to grab the knife and handcuff him like he's still a threat somehow as he's bleeding out. It's incontrovertible. Those people should be fired. And honestly, if you ask me, I'm not I don't know much about the law, but like, at least manslaughter charges like oh my god. Maybe they didn't mean to kill him, but they did. And just because someone commits a crime or may have committed a crime doesn't mean they should be murdered. And if you don't all take a stand against this, you will be complicit in an execution without due process. I don't even know what's going on with this guy. It sounds really bad. Jennifer Brown should resign in disgrace. I mean, I don't know. how she's still here, how she got hired in the first place. On God. Yeah, but this, you know, this has been keeping me up at night and I hope it keeps you guys up at night too.

Thank you. Virginia Caldwell.

So this is the first time I'm coming to the council to speak, and I'm just really hoping that we're all not wasting our time. I see a lot of poker faces, and I'm hoping that behind these poker faces are hearts that are receiving what a community is saying. I understand that we can only do the best that we can with the information that we have at the time. But it seems like there's like a master's degree of information coming into you right now. I can't imagine what it's like to be in your shoes. But I'd like to share with you what it's like to be in mine. I have three children, two of them being boys. We're Chicagoans. I came up here to MSU for college. We stayed, I stayed. 24 of my 28 years as an adult have been in East Lansing. The four years we were in Chicago when we had our two sons, Laquan McDonald in 2014 was gunned down by the police. He had a knife in his hand. He was also going through mental health issues. He walked away from the police officer that was demanding that he dropped the knife. The police officer said that Laquan lunged at him and then unloaded his clip. He was shot 17 times, I think. It was only because of the body cam footage that we really found out the truth, that he was just shot. After that happened, I decided we were moving back to East Lansing because I wanted to be in a small community. I didn't want my children to have to face the aggression that I saw happening. Here we are, 12 years later. Do you know what it's like to be a mom and have to sit at the table and rehearse what to do if they ever get pulled over by a police for a traffic stop? Do you know how much time I've wasted? It's not a waste because I want my kids to come home. I have to explain to them that you have to be calm so you don't trigger the cop. You have to remain calmer in the situation so they don't think you're aggressive because you know, cultural competency says that we all communicate differently. And so some cultures when they're passionate, they speak louder, but that's interpreted as aggression. Have you had that conversation with your kids? Have you sat at the dinner table and wasted time talking about how to engage with the police and not to over advocate for yourself so that you're not looked upon as a threat? Right now I'm passionate. I looked into how many non-lethal options there were. that could be used. And I know y'all got the budget for it because I pay taxes as a homeowner in the community. I pay taxes and I am demanding change for my preteens who will be driving soon. I don't need anyone. not understanding how to deescalate their CPI training. I've worked in mental health. Maybe these young officers need to go to a behavioral health unit and understand what it looks like when someone is having a mental health crisis so that they can be better on their feet to analyze the situation. None of this is okay. And I guess I came here because I just wanted to make a comment. But then after hearing the comments and looking at the responses, I'm asking, where are the hearts in the room? 30 seconds remaining. Where are the hearts? There doesn't need to be a wall here. We're a community and we need to solve this. I don't care what any other city's doing. I don't care what any other state is doing. Change happens here because people want change. Change can happen instantly. Instantly today, right now, change can happen. We can make decisions, but walls have to come down and hearts need to come out. And we need to see everyone else's struggle.

Thank you for your comments. Your time has expired. uh... katisha erickson

Hello, everybody. As you said, my name is Khadijah Erickson, and I hold many titles, but I'm coming to you today as just a citizen. I've been thinking about what it is I would say, and as I'm listening to everybody talk about Isaiah, It made me think a lot about the students I had from MSU this year young minority students undergraduates who were juniors and seniors and and The day after Isaiah Kirby was murdered was a very quiet day in my office. The students who were normally laughing and so joyful and excited for life were very quiet. very upset, very depressed. And as the reporting came out and I listened to people describe Isaiah as intelligent and humorous, somebody who was gentle and kind, I thought of how that's exactly how I would describe my students that I get to spend so much precious time with and I watched the murder of Isaiah too many times because statements had to be written. And so I unfortunately had to continue watching and see all of the camera angles. and watching his distress, hearing his distress as he brings a knife to his own throat, and then to see that the police officer's response is to shoot him at least three more times. was a lot um i unfortunately in my very short life have witnessed a lot of black trauma a lot of black bodies murdered at the hands of police unfortunately i have had to give comment like this before maybe not necessarily here And also think about how not too long ago and for several months in a row every week that I could make it here, I was asking you to consider humanity just like all of they are for the homeless in the community because for far too long you considered how you could treat them as inhumanely as possible and get away with it. And those two things are connected. They very much are connected. Your willingness to be cruel to the vulnerable, if you can codify it in the law, is upsetting. Very deeply upsetting. And then here we are in this situation, which was predictable when you consider how Welcome Week went last year, how all of that unfolded, how it continues to unfold, and we are here today. And now someone is dead. Isaiah was supposed to graduate this year. Isaiah had plans for what he would do after he left MSU. He wanted to go down to Texas and continue his work with animals. And I think about how my students spent the last academic year filling my brain with fantasies about how they too would just as freely as they dream in my office. get to live that out. And I can't help but just dwell on how unbelievably cruel it is to think of how Isaiah freely dreamed about a future he wanted to build for himself. And it was stolen, likely by officers who are under trained for the populations that they're dealing with. I am once again encouraging you guys to make the right decision for your community. You know, I said something to you guys several months ago about how you cannot arrive at humanity and dignity when you start in a place of power and control. You have 30 seconds remaining. And you've heard a lot about how you need to step away from your urge to engage with power and control a lot tonight. And I suspect until you actually make moves that are visible and tangible to the community, you will continue to hear that. You, once again, have the opportunity to do something different. Model real accountability for the community and display real leadership by applying pressure you can to ensure MSP's investigation is actually independent.

Thank you for your comments. Those were all the slips that I had. Is there anyone in the audience who has not yet spoken who would like to address the council? Please. If you could state your name for the record, please.

Yeah, my name is Rasha Thomas. I'm going to remove my emotions and put aside the rage. My wife and I moved out in East Lansing. She graduated from Michigan State. I know the police is shady. I get pulled over like twice a night, twice a week, visiting my fiance. Got one moving violation in my whole life. I'm 51 years old. Pulled over way over 100 times in East Lansing. So I know the deal. I know how to move. You know, it is what it is. We have two kids, graduated from East Lansing High School. I'm doing phenomenal. My daughter just graduated from Eastern Michigan. My son's on a full ride, Dean won football scholarship down there. We are terrified when they come home to visit. Terrified. And I'm not a scary dude. I can't protect my kids if they wanna go down to the strip where they went to all through high school. They wanna just visit with their other friends on holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas. Because I don't know what the hell y'all gonna do. We already know you don't have to do nothing wrong. You can just be accused of something. I'm not a big guy. I'm not small either. But my son is 6'5", 285, playing D1 football. My daughter is a foot shorter than him. So if she drives her little brother somewhere, he's like the bum thug dude, as y'all like to call us now thugs, that's got this girl and all this stuff. Someone said something about teaching your sons how to act in the car. I'm like, son, just be still. You can reach the dashboard from where you're at. Daughter, just do what you want. Roll all windows down. Hit the dome lights. Do all of this. Why? So you don't die. Sorry about that. I got a little emotional. Dig this. I hear a lot of stuff about police training and whatnot. It's always an excuse as to why they did something wrong. I think maybe trying to have a solution, not just being upset or angry, get some better people. Get some better people. It is a very strenuous job, a high stress job, a very important job, a very deadly job. Y'all got some bums out here being cops. Not all of them, but enough, obviously. If you are that damn scary when you have to go into a situation, that's not the profession for you, period. If you are not a good leader, you won't be a football coach. If you're not a good doctor or assessing doctor stuff, you won't be a doctor. Some jobs because you want it and you didn't excel at something else and they're hiring does not mean you need to get that job. That's what, no shade to anybody, no emotion, not attacking anyone. UPS is hiring. The post office is always hiring. You cannot be an EMT and then running to help somebody and save their life and be like, oh, they mouth look nasty. I'm not getting close to them. It's your job. So if you got a pool of people that's not from this community, come from God knows where, to police or help this community, and they're scared of the community, that when something like this happens, and it is a high stress level situation, it could be dangerous, it was dangerous, and your first thing is to pull your gun, be like, stop, please stop, boom, bang, bang. Come on now, you don't need that job, period. You just don't need it. Find something else, if you're not a leader. Jim Brown, get out. Why do, I'm not gonna assume that, it seems to me, like a lot of people, would like to try and defend something instead of having all the proof why it should be removed, just not removing it. We're gonna keep it because we're gonna make it right. I don't understand that. I always say know better, do better. I'm really hoping that you guys have heard what anybody has to say, that you know better, and you actually start doing better. I ain't taking no cheap shots at nobody. but there's so much more that can be done. And I'll be damned, y'all just be like, eh, whatever. Stone face all across here, no emotion. You don't gotta clap, ain't gotta be special. Just listen and do better.

Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak, please? Please state your name for the record.

Good evening. My name is Nell Kunminch. I'm a resident of East Lansing, Michigan, and I apologize for not getting a card in. I just arrived in town. I'm imploring each of you. I know each of you individually. I've worked with you. I have a tremendous respect for the abilities that you have. I'm imploring you. to listen to what is being said tonight and to do far better than is being done. I too watched those tapes and I was saddened and angry by the fact that our chief of police led me to believe that that young man was running at a police officer with a knife and that's why guns were pulled. I'm not excusing what that young man might have done before he was running down the street. But he was running down the street. Anybody who watched those cameras knew that. He was not attacking anyone. And when he was brought down, and told to put his hands behind his back when he had a number of bullets in his body already and probably was in a state of shock if not dying right there and then shot. I don't remember if he was shot again after that and I really don't care whether he was or not. I have been astounded. Those of you who know me better than others know that I spent an awful lot of my life professionally working in and around state government. And I have been so saddened by what is happening in our country and in our world by people who are in positions of power and are not using their power and their responsibilities to their constituents to do what is right. And I believe that we have a responsibility as a community, and I think as our elected officials, that responsibility lies with the five of you. And we need to figure out how to make this change so that we don't ever have this kind of situation again. And I don't know where you're gonna find police officers, but when I heard that those police officers, one of them had at most three years with our force, some of them were there for a couple of months, and I didn't know that they were not, many of them, members of our community. It's just way too easy to do what they did. And I understand it's not an easy job and I understand it's a stressful job. But there is unbelievable disdain for life that causes one to pull a trigger. on a young person who was not attacking them and who, from the looks of the arms that I could see on those cameras, could have easily taken that young man down without having to shoot him, but after the first shot, could probably have handled everything. And I just implore you, first of all, I implore you to seriously consider getting rid of our chief of police. A person who talks about minorities coming into our community to do criminal acts. It sounds like the people who used to tell me when I was on the school board that the minority kids that come into our schools who are causing the problems with our scores, that wasn't the case. That just wasn't the case. And we hear that kind of rhetoric in our country all the time now. from the highest levels and it's disgusting and it's disturbing. I believe in government, I believe in democracy, and I believe in accountability. And I would like to say I believe in the five of you. I would like desperately to see you do what I believe is right. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak? Please state your name for the record.

Good evening, Kelly Ellsworth Etcheson. I want to remind you of a fundamental promise that seems to be lost on the East Lansing Police. That fundamental promise located in the 14th Amendment of the Constitution called due process of law. when state or local governmental bodies have the authority, the power to take life, Liberty or property. That's why it's there so that there is a due process. Mr. Isaiah Kirby did not receive due process. Your position comes with great responsibility. Here's your opportunity to right this wrong. Remove Jen Brown and Robert Bellman.

Thank you. If you could state your name for the record, please.

Good evening. My name is Farhan Omar. I wanted to discuss a few things real quick. This case is not about the difference between stopping a threat. This case is about the difference between stopping a threat and continuing to use deadly force after that threat no longer exists. For example, imagine an intruder that breaks into your home and steals your property. The law still places limits on what you are allowed to do. For example, you cannot shoot a person in the back as they flee. Even though they broke into your home and they stole your property, you cannot shoot them because they are no longer a threat. The justification for deadly force disappears. The same principle applies here. The moment Mr. Kirby was struck by the initial rounds of gunfire, he no longer posed a threat to the officers. We know this not from speculation, but from one of the officer's own words when they said, let's use less lethal force. Those are not the words of someone facing an immediate deadly threat. Those are the words of someone recognizing that that danger had already passed. So there was no need to keep shooting the young man. He did not pose a threat to those officers or to the community any longer. With that being said, I want to directly address Mayor Altman. Mr. Altman, you are gambling with black people's lives. You are single-handedly gambling with black people's lives. You pose a colossal danger to this community, to the black community. You pose a bigger threat to the black community than the chief. Some of the things that you put on this agenda Some of the things that you put on this agenda, whether it's intentional or not, it is harming this community, the black community, limiting how long we can speak. Sergeants in arms in this place? Really? How many times have we all witnessed, after a Michigan State versus Michigan game, a bunch of white kids setting couches on fire in this city? how many times have we seen white kids climbing poles in this city how many times have we seen black kids setting tire white kids setting tires on fire in the city i've never heard a chief describe them as a problem to this community i've never seen a mayor try to limit the voices of white people when they pack this room I've never seen or heard sergeants in arms being recommended. When I look at you, Mr. Allman, you remind me of the governors back in the day and the mayors back in the day that used to use the National Guard against the MLK. They used to use the police force, the dogs, the water hose. It's 2026. We see it. We notice it. Stop it. Stop it. We've been coming here for months, for weeks, telling you guys, a black kid is going to die in this city if y'all don't stop. I've come out here. The black community, black leaders have come out here. The NAACP have come out here. It wasn't enough. And then guess what? Another black person is going to die in this city. Unfortunately. And then what? What is going to be your response? This is the same body that has made it impossible for Dana Watson to do her job as a council member. You guys ran her out of council. It is you guys. It is you, Wheeling, it is you, Mark Meadows, it is you, Allman, and it is you, Missing, that keep passing every single harmful law or ordinance in this city. It is y'all. And there's also the city manager, which responds to you guys. You guys are their boss or his boss. So therefore, the blame comes to you guys. I'm so sick and tired of the excuses. I'm so sick and tired of everybody just looking at us in disgust as if we're the problem. Really? Have you ever been pulled over by a cop? Do you get scared when you get pulled over by a cop? I do. And my record is just as clean as yours, Mr. Allman. I have full insurance just like you. But I still get scared, not because I'm a criminal, but because I'm black. You should be ashamed of yourself. Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to address the council?

Lee June, I was not planning to speak, but there's been a group of people meeting in the community, and they formed a coalition called Citizen for Justice. And we've kind of tried to concretize all of the things that you've been hearing here tonight in terms of eight demands and that we hope to follow through and work with you in bringing about. We come in the spirit of Amos, who said, let justice roll down like waters. Micah, who said, I will tell the immortal what is right and what does God require of you, but to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with God. So our first demand is for the immediate removal of the police chief, Jen Brown, through termination or resignation. We've talked to some of you and you indicate to us that the city council does not hire. So our second demand is going to ask for a meeting with Mr. Bellman, so we can talk about things within your jurisdiction and we request a meeting before May 29th to talk about a series of things. Now let me go back to the number one request which we are making and you've heard that in detail. In my experience, when someone is leading an organization and multiple things happen, at minimum, you generally remove that person, even if you're doing an investigation. And we'll kind of puzzle why she has not at least been temporarily, but we're requesting her removal. And we do that, she might be a nice person, but that's not the issue. She has lost her credibility. And when one loses their credibility, they're ineffective as a leader. The other five demands and my clock is ticking is we want to Police policy rewritten with the East Lansing Independent Police Oversight Committee that requires extensive anti-racism training for all East Lansing employees approved by the Director of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. We want a police policy regarding de-escalation, and would you bring those sheets up? I don't have time to go through them in all details. We want to restore full funding for ELIPOC and HRC, requiring input from ELIPOC and HRC on various things, and I don't have time to go through all of them. But what we're gonna do as a coalition is to continue to monitor these and ask you to act upon them in a reasonable time. So, you've heard those demands, and we think they're reasonable. Now, we also have empathy for Mr. Mealock. We want people to know that. We wish his continued speedy recovery. But this act and his act are two separate ones. And we appreciate two things that I know this happened. It's my understanding that the mayor and the city manager did speak to Mrs. Kirby, and if that's true, we appreciate it, and we appreciate you, Mr. Grisby, in terms of having your session yesterday, but we need to move forward on these kinds of things. I watched the videotape, and I debated whether to say this, but I came away, and one word struck me, and that word was slaughtered. And I looked up the definition of slaughtered, and slaughtered mean to kill in a brutal, violent, or indescribable manner. It is most commonly referred to butchering livestock for food or mass killing of humans in war. And I walked away feeling that this young man was butchered and slaughtered. So we are disappointed in what happened. Dr. King, you talk about him. I heard him speak in person a couple of times. But King said there can be no great disappointment where there's no love. And so we come in love. We want to work with you. We've talked to some of you, and we'll continue to do that. And we love this community. And we want to work together with you to make this happen. And King, I'll stop with this, he often told us as young people in Alabama, he said, how long? Then he would always tell us, not long. And then he would remind us, I know my time is up, I got 10 more seconds. He would say, how long, not long, because no lie can live forever. How long, not long, because true structure will rise again. How long, not long. because the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice. Thank you for your comments. I can predict tonight, I'm sitting, is that eventually Ms. Brown will be let go. Thank you for your comments. Your time has expired. We're just curious why it's taking so long.

Is there anyone else who would like to speak to the council?

Good evening, my name is Jacqueline Humphrey, and I'm a resident of Lansing. And I didn't come tonight to speak, but this situation reminded me so much of Patrick Leola. who died at the hands of a police officer in Grand Rapids. And I happen to know the family personally because my husband and I started an outreach ministry with the resettled refugees back in 2005. And this young man was only, he was stopped because of the license plate on the car. And Patrick Rand, a policeman, tried to tase him. He grabbed the taser. The policeman then ran after him, and as he held him down on the ground and handcuffed him, he was on his stomach, the police shot him in the head. And there was no justice for him because there's an all-white jury who were hung, and the police officer did not spend a day. He's not going to spend any time. I hope there's justice. I hope there's justice for Isaiah. and the police officer, regardless of whatever they come up with, that he should definitely spend the rest of his life in prison. I'm sorry, that's just how I feel. But it's so sad because we have a son, and for years we told him, if a police officer stops you, get to a very well-lit area, a gas station, and call us. We want to be there because there's people that don't believe profiling is real. It's extremely real. And our daughters, when they graduated from high school, wanted nothing to do with Michigan State. They did not want to go to a white university. And they chose to go to HBCU where they care about them. And they graduated and said that was the best experience they could have had. but they did not want to come here because I was an employee at the time and they could have gotten their tuition half but they did not want to come and we certainly didn't force them and so there is the issue here and you know as others have said the faces and as you're looking I hope you have the heart, that your hearts are not so hardened that you can see that there is a serious problem here. And I just want to say, as an associate pastor, if you don't do the right thing, God will fix this. God is going to take care of all of this. And so if you can't come to a decision, he's going to take care of our president, he's going to take care of this country, and he's going to take care of each and every one of you. So I just, I just hoard you all to please think about what you're doing here. The people who are affected and the fact that I say no person needs to have 17 bullets in their body. Only one could kill a person. How many times and whatever was going on with the police officer, it didn't take all that. It didn't take seven teen bullets. So Patrick being shot in the head is no different from him. And I know for a fact that Patrick was scared. He ran because he was scared. And all they really had to do is put handcuffs on him and take him to jail. But they didn't. They shot him in the back of the head. So that's what we call justice in the United States, and it's a sad state that we're in. It's really, really sad, and it hurts my heart. And I thank Theresa, who's the attorney for the family, because I know she's going to work hard with the family and will seek justice, and I just hope that there is justice for Isaiah, but more so there's justice for the people of East Lansing.

Is there anyone else who would like to speak?

Hi, my name is Marissa Gaines. I've never been to a city council meeting before. It's been very entertaining. I also didn't plan to get up and speak today. What everyone has said has been very enlightening. I didn't watch the video of Isaiah because I didn't think I'd be able to handle it. I grew up with him. We grew up in Baltimore City. We grew up in Baltimore City. The crime there is unbelievable. And we both were at Michigan State. And a lot of the times when a person from Baltimore City gets out of Baltimore City, we say that we made it because we made it out of Baltimore City. Nothing happened to us. We ran track. We were close. We were family. We made it out of Baltimore City. the fact that he couldn't make it here in East Lansing, that's not okay. It's a really difficult thing. When we found out that Isaiah passed away in East Lansing, but he made it out of Baltimore City, It's not OK. I don't have that much to say other than that. We were just two kids from Baltimore City in college trying to get our education. We thought that we made it. That was our I made it moment. He was headed to Texas. He was going to get a good job. He was excited. I didn't watch the video. I know very limited information. I just know that we are two kids from Baltimore City who made it, and then he didn't. And we're just calling for justice. That's all I have to say. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak? Please state your name for the record.

My name is Antonio Gomez. To the crowd, I'm going to apologize. I'm pretty emotional right now, so not really sure what I'm going to say. But I watched the video like a lot of people did. It's clear there's a severe lack of training within our police department that they would put themselves in danger and use an excuse of deadly force because they put themselves in danger. And it just makes me mad that you were given the recommendation that this police chief was not a good fit for this city and you are putting the city in danger you are putting us in danger by having a police chief that obviously is not doing her job correctly with unqualified officers that put us all at risk for any small thing that could happen. And I'm not really sure you're listening to us. I've only just started talking recently, but I know others have been here time and time and time again. And it just looks like nothing's getting through to any of you. I guess these next remarks go to the crowd. I just don't have faith in any of these people. If they want me to have faith in them, it's too late. It's gone. been taken away by their lack of action across the board. Like, I do not have faith that a former police officer will hold his people accountable. I don't have faith that a person I've seen lie to people will start telling the truth. I don't have faith that someone I'm worried might be a racist will soon find themselves to be a good person. I don't have faith that like, A coward will find the courage, and I don't have faith the lady that seems to just look the other way time and time again will just decide that she's going to actually pay attention when serious accusations are brought forward against the city manager. I don't have faith anywhere. I don't have faith in you at all. I don't know why you want this job. You should just all resign. You are putting our city in danger. You are turning your power against the people here. Leave. Get out. I don't want you here. And I'm pretty sure a lot of people don't want you here.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to address the council?

Hello.

My name is Carolina Wheeler. I'm a rising senior at MSU. I moved here from Kentucky in 2023. And one of the things I was most excited about, about going to school out of state, going up north, was thinking that things would be different, largely more progressive. And while I certainly see less Confederate flags flown around my neighborhood, Y'all, it's very real down there. There are certain things that I'm learning that are so pervasive and insidious within American society and American institutions that there is no escaping them. Even what seems to be a liberal college town. So I suppose I was naive. But I started off naive. I was raised in Kentucky in the South by affluent white Republicans. And I remember being taught about the police as a child, not much older than or fairly probably younger than the child who spoke here earlier tonight. and being taught that the police were brave, valiant public servants whose job was to protect people and ensure order and keep society safe. Obviously, throughout my adult life, I've learned the true history of policing in America, starting with the incredibly violent history of slave patrols, the enforcement of vagrancy laws through the 70s. That's crazy. The brutal crackdowns on the civil rights movement, the war on drugs. There's no denying that policing in America is rotten to the core. and that's something that no city can escape, no town, regardless of purported reform or changes in leadership or, you know, really, really much that they try to do to make policing better. And so, I've presented two sort of definitions of the American policing system here. One is that they're brave and they protect us, and one is that they are deeply flawed, and the original intent is something much graver than is presented to Americans. And in light of this incident with Isaiah Kirby, There's really only two conclusions you can make, one for each of those. Either A, the specific officers involved in Isaiah Kirby's death were in fact not the valiant public servants I was taught about in school, but rather cowards in body armor and tactical shields and armed with tasers and pistols and foam thingy? I forgot the term for it. I saw them load it in the video. It's interesting that there was no attempt made to deploy that, but it wouldn't have changed anything probably. Anyways, B, the second option is that the Carlson Institution of Policing in America is irrevocably intertwined with racism towards black Americans without exception. I kind of already said that. Anyways, to wrap up, I wanted to make the point that Violent crime is not something that ever happens within a vacuum. It happens because societal conditions are created by the institutions and they are sustained by these institutions. Violent crime is contributed to by mental health crises, substance abuse, housing insecurity, and even as we see now Episodes of psychosis triggered and or egged on by the sycophantic tendencies of unregulated large language models which cities around the country are promoting via allowing data centers All of these are also interconnected with broader societal issues and as we see the American government shift towards more authoritarian rule and defunding public service programs like healthcare, et cetera, and housing, these are only gonna get worse. And East Lansing has to figure out a way to deal with these problems that cause violent crime at the root and not to try and cut the buds.

Thank you. Is there anyone else? Please state your name for the record.

Yes, I'm Dr. Sharon Hobbs. I'm a clinical psychologist. I've been here 42 years. I was born and raised in Harlem, New York. I am not a small town girl. I'm also on the East Lansing Independent Police Oversight Committee, Commission rather, and I have watched for the last four years this council's unwavering effort to take away any voice that we as commissioners could expound on in terms of the needs and concerns that citizens in East Lansing have. We were supposed to be by ordinance their voice, but the council has felt that it's best to keep us quiet. Early on when we had concerns about how police officers were handling all citizens, not just black citizens, how they did not know how to deal with mental health crises. Mental health issues are not just with the black community. There's mental health issues in all aspects of our community and our police have not been trained to handle them. Many years ago when my son was a teenager and he was about six feet tall and about 200 pounds, he and his friend were sitting across the street from my house in Shaw States. He was smoking. He had finished smoking by the time the police drove through. But the police officer felt that there was a need to get out of his car and walk over to my son and his friend who was also African American to ask why were they there. my son said i live across the street and he pointed to our house which was a very unusual looking house and the officer said that's dr hobbs's house and he said i'm dr hobbs's son the next day that police officer came to my office to apologize because when he told his wife his wife said that was racist And so he came and apologized to me and later apologized to my son. I feel sorry for the police officers who shot Isaiah because I don't think you all give a damn about those officers. I think you care much more about East Lansing and the glory of East Lansing. When you shoot someone, even if they're your enemy in war, it hits you in the heart. And we put these police officers in these positions without giving them the training and the sensitivity training that is required. You can't be a police officer and not think quickly on your feet. When your police chief says, minorities coming into the community are the problem, and you see this young man with a knife, is that not a minority who's come into this community, this wonderful community, to cause problems? I mean, the police officers have been set up And I think there's a lot of work that can be done with our police officers. I don't think they're all a piece of crap. And no, I don't want these men to go to prison for the rest of their lives. I want them to have plenty of time to think about what their actions did, not only to Isaiah and his family, but to all of us, black and white. The Commission said Jen Brown after having served as a temporary person was not right for this community But I I interviewed I interviewed the candidates and she was not the strongest candidate but our city attorney I mean rather our city manager seemed to have a special liking for her and so that even the questions were geared for her. How can somebody who's coming from across the country know about our annual reports? So even the interviews were geared for her. I don't know why he is so enamored of her, but I do know she is not good for East Lansing. We've got to do better. Some of you I've known for a long time, like Mark, and I must say, Mark, I am very disappointed. I thought you would be at least a voice here and be heard. And I've known your husband forever. We've got to do better.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak? Please state your name for the record.

Olivier Stroud. First off, I just wanted to say what I saw from the body cam footage was a young man who was shot several times after he was already on the ground. And in international law, this is considered a war crime. Shooting somebody after they're already down is considered double tapping. Also, on the 13th, one of you guys said that you can't predict this kind of tragedy, and I've heard nothing but the community telling you that this was predicted. I mainly wanted to come up here to say this. I apologize. It's going to be hard for me to get through this, but I lived by where this incident happened. I lived with a young black man who dreamed of being a baker. He would make me the food that he hoped to put in his restaurant someday. Right after the MSU shooting, he seriously wasn't doing well, and I reached out to the city because he, like me, didn't have a family that I could go to, and I've had multiple white friends who I've been able to get mental help for when they really needed it, you know, and I wasn't able to take care of them anymore because I had to go to a surgery and was going to be away for a while. The city sent the police just made him a lot worse. And just with his mental headspace, it could have ended up like this incident, which I think the police handled awfully. When I returned from my surgery, I walked into an active unmarked crime scene where I found the remnants of my roommate's last days. And so I guess along with the fact that the police should have handled this situation completely differently, from my experience, I don't understand how we help people retroactively. So that's all I wanted to say.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to address the council? Seeing none, are there any callers?

There's one caller on the line. Caller with the last name Austin, you are now free to address the council. Caller with your last name Austin, you are now free to address the council. There are no callers remaining on the line.

All right, thank you. That brings us to communications from council. Council Member Whalen.

It's very difficult to know what to say in a situation like this. Obviously our community is hurting. Staff are hurting. I wanted to originally talk about the Art Fest and how incredible it was where people from all over the state came in to enjoy our community. Myself and Mayor Tim Grigsby went to a Michigan Municipal League training this weekend on how we can be better at doing our jobs and it was very informative. I really appreciate my colleague. Just a reminder that we're not the investigative bureau of the situation. We are not getting any formal comments from the man who was stabbed many, many times. We are not seeking other eyewitness accounts. We're not talking to those involved. And video does show just a portion of the situation. We're leaving this to the Michigan State Police because that's appropriate. It's not appropriate for the East Lansing Police Department to investigate the situation, so we need to have an outside agency investigate that. That investigation takes time. There is lots of rules with council. We can't get together and talk. There's an Open Meetings Act that is critical that we don't do business outside this room. So I do ask for patience and due process and patience in the situation. I do think there's a lot of people that have seen this and it's traumatic. And I think I want to make sure that we can reach out to mental health professionals to be able to deal with issues and it's just very, very difficult situations for everyone involved. It's very traumatic and I appreciated several of the comments that addressed that. I guess that's all I have to say.

Thank you, Council Member Meadows.

Well, I'll try to be fairly brief here. I just want to say that even though we may have poker faces while we're listening to people, I think that most of us want to make sure that people know that we are listening to them. And by reacting, sometimes it may indicate that we're not. You asked me specifically about lunch. I don't actually remember ever using the word lunch in relation to this in particular. It may have been a reporter's question and they used the word or something like that. But as I indicated last week, what I saw as of last week was the abbreviated version of this particular incident. And in that incident, there is a moment in time just before this ends, before that ends, where Isaiah moves from the bike lane into the regular part of the street and seems to be heading towards the police car. That's what I was referring to. But I want to emphasize the other things I said because they were characterized as being insensitive by the attorney for the family who I've known for years. And I want to make sure that I am not insensitive and want to emphasize that I meant what I said when I began to talk last week. Nobody who has a child wants to outlive that child. And I think the tragedy of this is widespread. Even putting aside the number of bullets that might have been used, The question I asked then is the question I ask now. We need to know what triggered all this. What was this mental health crisis? And I want to, I represented the Department of Mental Health for about 10 years and as Assistant Attorney General had numerous lawsuits that I handled. And I just want to mention that This sort of schizophrenic burst is often, we see that as between the ages of 18 and 24, and particularly among individuals who are highly intelligent. And by all counts, by all reports, Isaiah was a highly intelligent student with a life that he was planning to have. So how did this happen that night? I want to know the answer to that and I'll have a lot more to say about both the video and all of the evidence that we received because we don't have the toxicology report or the autopsy report at this point in time. But clearly, if this was a sudden mental health crisis, this is even more of a tragedy than it seems to me to be at this point in time. I agree that everybody who does wrong should be held accountable. And I think somebody mentioned that at the microphone. That is the objective. That's the objective of the investigation and the objective of this council. There's been a number of comments with regard to due process of law and due process is a big deal. And more than a big deal, a big right of everyone who's involved in any incident like that. And that applies both to Isaiah and the due process of law that he had a right to and the due process of law that someone who may have violated his right to due process of law has in relation to that. And we will go forward with that. I think that there are a number of issues that were raised in my mind with regard to the video as I watched the entire video that was released, and I will have further comments with regard to those at what I consider to be the correct time. I will note that while I appreciate all of the comments that were made tonight, Dr. Hobbs' comment is the one that stung with me. I don't want you ever disappointed in me. And like I say, I'll have a lot more to say about this.

Thank you. Mayor Pro Tem. Yes. So I just want to thank everyone that came in and spoke tonight. And I love the fact that you guys are organizing together as a community and really showing out for what's important. I also want to just say to the group, Citizen for Justice, I'm glad that you guys have ORGANIZATION AND YOU HAVE A LIST OF THINGS HERE THAT I SEE AS WHAT YOU CALL DEMANDS. AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHERE WE ARE AT. I MEAN, YOU GUYS HEARD ME TALK, TALK AND TALK ABOUT THINGS HERE IN THIS FORMAT. AND I'M READY TO WORK AND READY TO LOOK AT HOW WE CAN GO FORWARD. SO I'M URGING THE CITY MANAGER TO MAKE SURE THAT HE scratches out time for the individuals that are involved with this. By the deadline that they set, I think it's important for us to rearrange whatever schedules we have to start looking at this as we go forward. UM I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS I HAVE A LOT OF THINGS THAT I DON'T I DON'T UNDERSTAND UM I PLAN ON ASKING SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS TONIGHT UM AND AGAIN WITHIN THAT FRAMEWORK UM AND I KNOW THIS IS NOT YOU KNOW BUT THERE IS A DUE PROCESS FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED JUST LIKE COUNCIL MEMBER MEADOWS SAYS AND THAT IS REALLY THE STRUCTURE, THE FRAMEWORK THAT THIS WHOLE DEMOCRACY IS BUILT ON FOR US TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS. I KNOW YOU WANT IMMEDIATE ACTION. I KNOW YOU'RE TIRED OF ASKING FOR THINGS YOU'VE BEEN ASKING FOR AND DEMANDING FOR IN REGARDS TO EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN SAID. and as i've said before i said i wasn't talking but as i said before we have everything in front of us we have the process that has been set out by law and we are in a situation where we can act upon those in this particular setting in this particular role and the particular responsibility that we have to the city and the community here in the city i will just do that so i think it's um absolutely imperative that we continue hearing from you continue hearing your stories your experiences um and some of you have worked with uh in the past when it comes to some of these issues and these issues were here before we got here these issues are happening now these issues going to be having here after we're gone. So we have to do what we can, why we can, and as I said before, it is so much more easier to do it with you than without you. Thank you. Thank you. Council Member Singh.

I, like many of you shared from the podium this evening, am sad, angry, and sick. The video that was released that many of us watched was incredibly disturbing. from that review i have submitted a set of questions to the city manager and city attorney and i hope to gain some answers stemming from the release video i want to recognize that the community we are in collective pain and um And this is going to be a long road ahead. I don't pretend that this is something that is an easy set of solutions that we are faced with, that this has got to be a collective long-term path that we commit ourselves to. And I want to recognize beyond the awful events that happened April 15th that there is a larger conversation, which I appreciate the list that was shared that recognizes some recommendations. I wanna lend some appreciation to the community members I've been able to have a dialogue with over the last several days. I look forward and welcome that continued dialogue. I do also want to share that the conversations I've been able to have both with city attorneys and with city managers, there are personnel questions that I've asked. That's as far as I'm going to go this evening. There's a lot of work to do and again, you know, thank you for coming here and I do recognize that, uh, especially for those with generational trauma, that this is something that is, um, continues to be difficult to come here on a weekly basis. I also, I do want to do a slight mention on the extreme weather events that we had last night or yesterday. The Ingham County Emergency Response, SIRENS. I know I spent time in my basement yesterday. I know our schools, you know, students are in the hallways for extended amount of time sheltering. and just want to give a shout out to our DPW folks and others that have been part of the community response as it relates to, you know, the downed trees and other property damage. So while this, while we have really important matters the city business of tending to the community on all facets continues so I want to recognize the city employees that are are weighing through that so with that that's all I have this evening thank you that brings us to communication from the city manager mr. Bellman I have none this evening

Okay, that brings us to item 3.1. Is there a motion concerning item 3.1? Mike.

I move that we go into a closed session to discuss and consult with the city's attorneys regarding privilege and confidential attorney-client legal correspondence that is exempt from disclosure by state law under MCL 15.243, paren 1, paren lowercase g, as allowed under subsection 8, paren 1, lowercase h, of the Michigan Open Meetings Act.

Motion by Meadows, second by Whalen. Roll call vote, please.

Council Member Whalen? Yes. Council Member Meadows? Council Member Singh? Yes. Mayor Pro Tem Grigsby? Yep. Mayor Altman?

Yes. We are adjourned to a closed session. Okay, we are back in open session. Next item on our agenda is discussion of police and fire updates. We'll start with Interim Chief Newman from the Fire Department.

Good evening, Mayor, Council. Thanks again for having me. John Newman, Interim Chief, Fire Department. I know that last month I had mentioned that we had a young firefighter paramedic who was separating after just a matter of a few years to go raise a family. Well, Genevieve was born on Mother's Day, so I wanted to make sure to at least close that conversation. Things are successfully moving forward for Julia and Chris and Genevieve, and I just wanted to close that piece out right at the beginning of the presentation. Following the Wells Hall event that we had responded to with MSU Police Department, we wound up actually having three different hazmat events on campus within the last one month period. There was the Wells Hall event and then there was this event here at the MSU Regional Chilled Water Plant. This was actually the deputy chief on duty that day activated this as a metro hazmat response due to the fact of the chemical mixtures within the building. The MSU employees had reported that there was a liquid chlorine spill along with a hydrofluoric acid spill and that creates a toxic corrosive poisonous gas, chlorine gas. They had evacuated with minor irritation from the gas and then we had the response from the Metro team to actually enter and make sure that we had the the spill evaluated so they knew the content the quantity of the content as well as making sure that if it needed to be damned or mitigated in any way they could get that accomplished before any type of contract cleanup occurred and also limit any type of exposure to anybody else but it was just a i had stated at media meetings prior that sometimes there is no reason for the change in calls or the volumes of calls It just played out that way that there were three hazmat calls that we responded to within a 30-day period on campus the last one I'm referencing as of as the three the last one was today there was a complication today with the nitrogen gas that's utilized at the chemistry building to control environments for their experiments and studies that they do, the graduate students do within chemistry building. They utilize reactive metals in their studies and the one thing about those reactive metals is they can't be exposed to oxygen and so they put them in a testing cage container, and then they completely envelop it with nitrogen to make it an oxygen-deprived atmosphere. Well, there was a complication with that today. They were actually running out of nitrogen with multiple tests going on. So we actually were on site for that in order to make sure that we didn't have any reactive metals. beginning to combust until they had everything mitigated and had the nitrogen back in place. So that one actually turned out to be not so much a concern of the gas as the reactive metals that were in the building. The next photo on the next slide just shows two of the staff. They're in their one size fits all suits. I thought that the picture actually did justice. The individual on the left has a smaller stature than the one on the right, but yet in the same size suit, and then they are going to be entering that space through that door there in order to monitor the airspace within that room. Outside of the report that I had presented separately to you, the written report that I left for you to just have the information without reading all that information to you, this page here, I added data as you had requested in comparison with previous years. built this basically on a guess, not certain exactly the information that you were looking for. But what I want to know from you, I need feedback from you. Is this the data that you are looking to obtain and review? Is there additional data that you want? Is there a different format that you want to receive it? We can adjust what we need to do with this. You can see within the report that's in here, I did include in there mutual aid that was provided outside of the city, as well as mutual aid received within the city. And you'll see that those numbers are quite a bit different over the last three years.

Could you point to those in the bullets?

In the bullet points? Yeah. So if you're down, the top half of each one is specific to EMS calls. And if you go to the four bullet points, inset bullet points, and you go towards the bottom, for 2026, there were 17 EMS calls that we responded to outside of the city of East Lansing. Got it. And there were two that we received mutual aid within the city for that we could not cover.

So there's a big imbalance there.

That was just for 2026. If you go to 2024, we had 18 that we responded to and 13 that we received assistance for. Much closer paradigm in there. Now, 25 is even more of a marked difference than 26.

So if there's a long-term imbalance there,

Well, we'll know that as we continue to move forward collecting that data for you.

So I think I was the one who had asked for this year-over-year data.

I would wager that we're going to see a shift on that, the opposite direction, come August, September, and October. Got it. Yep.

Okay.

Just with call volume. So these are monthly stats? Yes. Okay. Yes. These are specific to April of each year.

So it'll be useful to track that over the months because it could reverse.

Yes. And you'll be able to see that as we move forward. And we can do that. We can show comparison with six-month difference as we move forward and still equate that with varying years.

Yep. I think this is great. This is kind of what I was envisioning when I asked. Kind of what you were looking for? Yeah.

All right. Thanks. It's been interesting looking at the data. One of the items that I had discussed with Mr. Bellman today during our face-to-face was we had a response that we provided outside of the city with automatic aid to Bath Township for the fire at Village at Chandler Crossing. And one of the things that was identified with that event alone was the frequency that we are working with those fire events with Meridian Township, Bath Township, and making sure that we have policies, tasks, directives that are given over radio communication that everything is equal and mirrors each other so any changes or differences that there might be with a different department we need to make sure that our training reflects that information and we bring things in in line so that everybody is working off the same page Now that that's been identified, we will be working towards holding joint training sessions together with the departments, not just within our own department, but with outside departments to bring that together and try to marry those tasks and those services together. But outside of that, that's a brief bullet point of what we've been doing at the fire department for the last month. Testing for one new hire position next week. Yes, next week. So we will be doing the written and the physical agility. And then we will be holding the oral interviews after that to fill that one position. So we are actively working forward to get that position filled.

Questions for Mr. Newman? Mr. Whelan?

Maybe it's more of a comment. I actually had someone talk to me about the fire up in Bath, and they were very impressed with the multi-unit where different counties, different cities, the fact that everyone worked really well together, that helps us if we have an issue also. So I think the coordination within the departments is impressive, and I'm glad for that. Thank you.

I do have a comment, if I can.

I just really want to compliment you on bringing these departments together in a training for training. I mean, that was one of the issues. I want to say I don't remember how many years ago it was when we talked about Combining Meridian Township and East Lansing's fire departments, there was a huge disparity in training at that point in time. And obviously our fire department responds to things like a hazmat issue that other departments locally probably don't have to train for. So having that joint training, I think, is extremely important and also means that we'll have equally trained individuals responding because we're going to be back up or first in on, you know, any number of things over the years. So my compliments to you in getting that done. That is great.

Mr. Grigsby. Yeah, you just stole all my thunder. Literally, words out of my mouth. I thank you for doing this. I just want to be appreciative of the work that it takes for you to get prepared for this, present to us, get this information, do the work that's not necessarily in front of people. I just want to ask you in these presentations, do you feel like the work you put into it, the energy and the time, that the benefit of doing this going forward is something that's advantageous of your time and the frequency that we were doing it in. Does that make sense?

I do. I mean, it does take some time, but part of that is it hasn't been done in the past. So building the foundation to move forward to be able to continue to glean the information over and over and over. Once the system's built, it should flow, and we'll be able to gather that information as we need it, not just on a report basis to you once a month.

Yeah, that's my concern. I just want to really make sure. I know I benefit tremendously with just learning so much of some of the inner workings and some of the data that's been presented. I just want to make sure on your side that you also feel that this is a good investment for something that you're creating in the system.

I'm finding information that I'm utilizing on my own collection of data. So there's pieces that I'm looking at myself that I'm starting to collect that not necessarily are going to mean anything currently, but they may over time. But being able to see that and identify that, well, that's something I didn't know.

Yeah.

Maybe it'll give us some benefit down the road.

Absolutely.

Thank you. Council Member Singh. Yeah, so it's also, I think, helpful for the public to see trends. It's helpful for all of us to see trends over time, and I'm looking at pretty steep uptick in overall EMS calls in April 26 relative to April 25 and potentially also April 24. It'll be interesting to see if that holds up over the months.

Right, and see what changes as we move forward.

Yeah, and I think that's real important for the community to be able to see also that the burden on the fire department keeps growing.

Agreed. Agreed. So thank you for your presentation. Absolutely. Thank you for your time.

All right. Thanks, Chief. Good night. Okay. Chief Brown and Assistant Chief Kraft and Captain O'Hario, welcome.

Good evening, Mayor Altman, Mayor Pro Tem Grigsby, and council members. Thank you for the opportunity to provide an update on several important initiatives within the East Lansing Police Department. Tonight, I will briefly discuss hiring and promotions, training initiatives, technology and transparency efforts, department activity and community engagement. I am pleased to announce the hiring of our newest police officers, officer Washington and officer Mosby, as well as the promotion of Sergeant Woodruff. We also had one individual start last week, officer Kendall souls. I will be introducing these new officers to you at the June discussion only meeting. I was planning to introduce them tonight, but officer Mosby had a military obligation. Currently the department has 55, um, budgeted officers and we're currently staffed at 47. We have one officer in the Washtenaw Police Academy and five other conditional offers extended to potential candidates. Training continues to be a major priority from our department. Last week, our personnel participated in a two-day training led by Joe Smaro. He is a nationally recognized speaker. We actually had two two-day sessions of training that focused on de-escalation, trauma recognition, and mental resilience. As you're already aware, our command staff completed training with Dr. Ike McKinnon focused on ethical policing, building trust, and professionalism in leadership. And that same training is now scheduled for all non-supervisory police personnel in July of 2026. Lastly, all of our personnel completed implicit bias training with Darnell Blackburn. And we're already looking into 2027 and looking to bring nationally recognized speakers like we've done in 2026. The department continues to invest in technology that improves efficiency, accountability, transparency, and officer safety. We're currently working with Axon on the development and implementation of Axon standards. As you've heard before, this platform will help us streamline use of force reporting and complaint tracking. We still have a go live date for summer of 2026. Our team continues to meet with Axon representatives on a weekly basis to make sure that the system is customized for our department needs and best practices. The next slide will provide a snapshot of department activity comparing March of 2026 to April of 2026, as well as a year-over-year comparison from April of 25 to April of 26. So compared to March of 26, in April we had an increase of 311 calls, traffic stops increased by 32, and OWI arrests increased from five to nine. And then comparing those same numbers to April of 2025, We had calls increase by 132, traffic stops by 74, and a slight decrease in OWI arrests. In April, we had six warnings for loud exhaust on vehicles and one citation was issued for loud exhaust. Community engagement continues to be one of our priorities, and over the past several months, our officers and staff have participated in numerous community events and outreach initiatives. Some of those recent examples include our participation in the Kiwanis egg hunt at Patriot Park, and our attendance at the Tech Forward Men of Color recruiting event, which highlighted careers in trades, technology, and public service. We also had a successful completion of our 2026 Citizen Police Academy, where we had 19 individuals graduate. Even during periods of staffing shortages and increased demands for service, our team continues to prioritize public safety and community partnership. Our community expects when they call 911 that they'll receive quality service in a timely manner. One example of this is over the last month we've had two separate swatting calls at the East Lansing High School. these incidents very quickly absorb all of our resources and often require assistance from other agencies. And so even with staffing shortages, we responded to those calls and had a successful end to those. So again, thank you for the opportunity to provide this update and I'd be happy to answer any questions that you may have.

Questions for the chief? Mr. Grigsby.

Yes, thank you. Thank you for the report. And thank you for all coming in tonight. As you know, we have a big community incident that we are dealing with, that you're dealing with, we're all dealing with. And I had a few questions. And these are questions that I think hopefully can start giving at least me some understanding about what I don't know and how it works from your perspective in a baseline way. And I apologize if my questions are, I don't know, not the best questions. So work with me here in regards to that. But my first question is, can you walk me through like the deadly force policy and like in plain language as best you can, you know, specifically to what mass officers reasonably believe before daily forces authorized. Um, I just don't know how that works.

Sure. Again, we can't get into specific details of the case, but broadly, first of all, I want to draw attention that all of our policies and procedures are accessible to the public. They are on our website. They're part of our transparency page. We have quite a few policies and they're all accessible. In terms of our deadly force policy, I first want to reiterate that all of our response to resistance is governed by case law, and that's Graham versus Connor. So East Lansing Police Department's officers are trained to assess three key items before making a decision to use deadly force. And those three prongs are the severity of the crime, whether there's an immediate threat to the public or to officers, and whether there's active resistance or flight. And so that is what guides that deadly force language.

Okay. I have some more questions. I don't know if you guys have follow-ups. Can I go ahead and keep... Okay. So... Can you help me understand? I'm trying to distinguish between a person that is armed and a person that presents an immediate threat. I don't know if there's a proximity thing. I don't know if there's a level of the scenario or weapon. Can you help me understand? at least how officers are trained or what the policy may be in regards to, and I know some of this is very situational and there's a little bit of discretion involved with some of it, I would assume, I guess with how that works.

I can answer part of that question. Our officers are trained to assess each situation as it evolves. And they take in that Graham v. Connor case law into consideration, which they have had training on. Our officers all exceed the MCOL's minimum standard of training, which is also publicly available on the MCOL's website as well. But again, just to reiterate that, To your question as you pose it, they do take in the severity of the crimes that they are investigating or responding to, the knowledge that they actually have when they interact with anybody. It's not hindsight 20-20. They are not judged on that. They have to only what they know at the actual time. The immediacy of the threat, not only to officers, but to the public and other people out in the public. And then just the, again, active resistance or flight of any person that they deal with. So that's really how they address that situation. And as you said, it is very situational. They have to take in the totality of the circumstances with the information that they know. And at times in law enforcement, you have to make split-second decisions with very limited information. And so that's how the court views it. Again, weighing very heavily on the factors outlined within that Supreme Court case of Granby-Conner.

Thank you. And I know we have an independent investigation that's going to look at all this and whatnot. But one of the most confusing things from the video is the And I'll just say plainly, there's officers who are looking to do non-lethal, and then there's the lethal aspect of that. And I'm not quite sure how that works in a live situation as a person that sees this video and sees two different types of levels of response. And I'm just curious, with respect to the investigation, if that could be addressed or not.

Unfortunately, it can't be addressed. We haven't interviewed officers, and so we don't know the reasons for what they did at the time of the incident. So again, we can't speak to the specific case. Those are questions that would have to be answered by the Michigan State Police.

OK. And this may be similar. So can you do you have a general timeline of when EMS was requested to the scene and the timeline when the medical aid was actually rendered? Because from the video, I look like there there was a timeline thing there, but then in the other footage, it just seems like it didn't match up. So I'm just curious if you have that information just yet with kind of understanding when we were able to render aid to the individual involved.

So again, just speaking broadly, not to the specific case, the East Lansing Police Department for policy on rendering aid says that we need to make sure that the scene is stable before medics can render aid to any individual. And so again, broadly speaking, that is what our policy says.

Okay. That's all I have for now.

TODD BANDUCCI- Further questions, Councilmember Singh?

I just want to build some understanding on the, during the release footage last week that a lot of the public has taken in. I think you have language there that talks about the internal investigation or internal review. What, and I know I privately asked this question as why I want to reflect that, but I think it's important to understand. At what point with the independent investigation of the Michigan state police, um, the timeline of that internal review.

Yeah, that's a good question. Um, standard protocol for East Lansing police department is an internal investigation into any critical incident will occur sometime after the Michigan state police completes their investigation.

And then is there, when you are conducting an internal review of something, what, how long does that typically take the ELPD?

So I think our last critical incident that was reviewed, um, comparable in size would be the Meyer shooting. And I wasn't around during that time.

So I'm looking to Adrian if he remembers, I know at a minimum of several months, we only had one investigator looking into that at that and that critical incident. And that didn't, uh, that incident was not as complex as this one is.

And then you internal investigator, can you explain to me how that works within the police department?

regards to just do you have a separate position that's an internal investigator or is it someone amongst administrative officers i don't know so yes in this instance it would probably be an administration team member that was doing that level of internal investigation correct for a smaller internal investigation sometimes they're handled at the shift level so a sergeant may do a very minor internal investigation if it rises above that a lieutenant might do it like a shift lieutenant but in this instance due to the magnitude of the incident probably going to be one of the administrators

And then you mentioned in response to our Mayor Pro Tem's question, in terms of our hirees, they all exceed MCOLs. What does that mean? Is that passing the exam exceeds standards? What does that mean?

Yeah. EMCOLS has a minimum standard and all of our ELPD officers are trained at the EMCOLS minimum standard for licensure and firearms and officer's response to resistance is guided by case law. So EMCOLS has minimum standards that are on their website, particularly for the licensing, the amount of academy that they have to go through and so on and so forth. There are new standards for continuing education that EMCOLS just put in place back in 2024 as a pilot program. And again, all of that is publicly available and we could share it with you if you want. We can get copies for you if that's what you would like. But that information is there. The East Lansing Police Department, the MCOL standards is a minimum. All of our officers exceed that minimum.

And then the new curriculum that you are referencing by M. Coles, what percentage of our current 47 officers have been a part of that recent update in curriculum or standards?

All of them have to be.

So they've all been hired since 2024?

No, they all have to go through the standards. These standards are set for a year. So there's like a bank for 2024. They have to meet all the standards. And then there's a bank of education that they have to meet in 2025 and so on and so forth.

Okay.

So in regards to 2026, you have the whole year to work on it. So officers are going through that right now.

Okay. And then what, beyond MCOLs, what additional training, which I recognize as you've referenced, it's on your website, additional policy or training policies that officers go through? Like de-escalation. We purposed a bunch of dollars for other trainings in the last eight months or six.

Are you asking beyond the ones that I mentioned in the presentation? Yes. So again, to your question regarding policies, first of all, we have a software system where all of our policies are at and all of the officers are required to sign off on those electronically that they understand them. So that's part of training. And then we do an annual training each year in either January, February, or March. Each of the officers or swarm personnel have to go through three full days of training. That includes everything from first aid, CPR. We also do taser training. We do de-escalation, health and wellness, resilience, the topics for those change from year to year. But again, we do a wide variety of training during that annual training. And then officers additionally go to training for which they, it might apply to a specific position that they're in. So for example, our canine officers attend canine training. both on a monthly basis and then again annually. We have bicycle officers and they go to specific training. So again, all of our officers get very specific training each year and then if they're specialized, they get training beyond that.

And the crisis intervention training, is that required by EMCOLS or is that an East Lansing PD requirement?

So critical incident training, from my understanding, is not required by MCOLS, but that is a priority for our department. And the last time I checked, which was a couple weeks ago, we have 37 of our officers that are trained in CIT.

So 37 of the 47 that are? And do you have an awareness of police departments in mid-Michigan that require that? Do we require it or it's a priority for the department?

It is a priority. We don't have a requirement.

It's not required. Okay.

We're just globally trying to get officers through. From my understanding, they only offer that twice per year. And so again, because of our staffing levels, we're only able to send a couple officers to that training at a time.

And who hosts the training?

Ingham County.

Ingham County. And I know a number of our officers come out of Lansing Community College, is my understanding. And have we had meetings with the faculty that conduct some of the trainings to talk specifically about what we're seeing in terms of community needs and what is instructed in the classroom?

Yeah, and I'm going to let Adrian speak to this, because he's very actively involved in Lansing Community College Police Academy.

I actually teach there.

So, yes, at the end of every academy there is a debrief where chiefs and high-level executives are able to come in and kind of critique and provide suggestions to the academy. The academy standard, I believe, I think I wrote it down on the notes for MCOLs, 590 hours. The LCC, as an example, does well over 700 hours of actual educational purposes for any recruit coming out of LCC. I can't speak to any other of the academies. But all of the academies are governed by the Michigan Commission on Law Enforcement Standards, MCOLS. And so they are all overseen by MCOLS. And the curriculum is actually designed by MCOLS as well. They do curriculum review as well, but I don't know the specifics on that because I haven't interacted with MCOLs that directly very often. So if that answers your question.

Yeah. I mean, part of it is I used to do workforce development. and other professional areas. And a lot of times, we would work specifically with higher ed entities providing the training or the degree programs to specifically outline needs that we have in our or an employer would need to help match make and develop that curriculum. I understand this is a bit different in terms of the standards that are outlined by the state. very different than an engineering degree. So I'm just, you know, balancing what I know professionally to, you know, what you have here. Well, it's a good question.

There's a lot of information on the MCOLS webpage. If you had any questions or needed some assistance navigating it, I'd be more than happy to do that. Part of that curriculum or the curriculum that MCOLS sets forward for academies to be taught is on that webpage.

Yeah. Thank you for referencing that. I know verbally, I learned verbally, so I appreciate this description as I'm sure the public does as well. Um, let's see, I want to go back to, um, Um, for in this, you know, what we've just experienced, um, as well as, uh, I know you mentioned the Meyer event a few years ago. Can you describe to me a little bit in terms of how videos are compiled, um, whether that's from fleet or body cam footage or even, uh, available footage at storefronts. The video compiles like in regards to acts on body and one camera videos after an incident that we, you know, you know, how does that come together for East Lansing police department? How do you compile a video after a significant event?

Yeah, I can walk you through that. So we spent hours and hours watching camera footage from both the body worn cameras and from the fleet footage. And again, wanted to provide the public with as much detail as we could in a short amount of time. So from our experience, again, partnering with the Lansing Police Department to create this video, we learned that most agencies narrow the video down to about between 10 and 15 minutes. As you know, our final product was just over 22 minutes. And so again, we had to create a timeline using that footage that we have available to us. And some of that footage was hours and hours in length. So again, we tried to provide as much information as we could in that short amount of time that we were able to create for that narrated video.

And in terms of, um, you know, what would, and, you know, heaven forbid, we don't go back, you know, through anything like we've experienced this, this spring, but, um, you know, in terms of what would cut down the time, uh, to develop a video, um, whether that's reflective back on the Meyer case or, uh, currently what we've experienced.

I think one of the biggest hurdles we ran into was just lack of technology software to be able to put something like that together and just knowledge. And so that's why we kind of leaned on regional partners that had folks that had some experience and the ability and the software to do that. So hopefully we never have to come into this type of situation again, but we do have folks now that we're working alongside our regional partners to be able to gain that knowledge and have that software available now so that we Could do a little bit more of it ourselves and be a little bit faster, I think.

And does Axon also do this service?

Not to my knowledge, no.

But there are vendors that work with local police departments.

I'm not aware of any vendors, yeah.

Mr. Whalen, you were making a motion toward your microphone.

Um, and we haven't talked about this. Can you help me with the perception of a police officer where they would use either less lethal or lethal force? What would be part of their decision based on their perspective? When is appropriate to use less lethal as compared to lethal?

So again, they would have to refer back to their training, which again is guided by case law, which we spoke to in terms of Graham versus Connor. That is exactly what they would have to rely on to make that decision. And again, it's a three-pronged approach. So that is the severity of the crime, whether there's an immediate threat to the officer or to the public, and whether there's an active resistance or a fight.

OK. And maybe I need a little attitude because I'm going to ask a personal question. Can I ask Chief why you became a police officer? You can take a second to think. This is an interview. I'm just asking.

Well, I think the answer that I hear most from others when we do interviews is that they want to help others. As you all are aware, I spent 15 years in law enforcement. I left and went into the private sector. And I watched my daughter, who graduated from the police academy and went into Lansing Police Department, and watched her passion and love for helping people in the community and trying to make her department better. And I truly miss that. that's what brought me back into law enforcement is I felt like my job as an officer wasn't done and that I could really help this police department in particular and this community that I knew was struggling. I knew coming into this position that this department and this community needed change. And I'm honestly trying my best to do that every single day that I come to work.

Thank you. And I'm sorry, associate chief or deputy chief or what's your title? Assistant chief. Assistant chief. You might have asked you, what do you look for in new officers when you ask them? I'm not sure if that's still a question you ask why they want to be a police officer. What are things you look for? And there's lots of people that want to do this job, less than before. But now that there's less people applying, maybe you have to be more discerning. What do you look for in police officers?

I think simply just a passion for public service, folks that want to give of themselves to make the community better and to, you know, help people on their worst day. In 27 years, I've never had anybody call me up and say, you know, hey, I'm having the best day ever. That's not typically the calls that we get. So folks that are willing to shoulder that and provide quality service in the moment and have that passion for helping others.

Okay. I have nothing further.

Mr. Meadows? Just a couple.

I want to confirm, I think you said this earlier, so I just want to make sure I got this right, that the M. Coles policies are the minimum policies for every police agency in the state of Michigan, correct?

Yes, because MCOLS governs all of the agencies within the state. And obviously, for those that are not aware, there are many small agencies that don't have the resources that much larger agencies have to burden. And so the policies that MCOLS makes has to also take that into account and encompass what those smaller agencies can do. So again, you are correct. It is the minimum standard.

And to the extent that we have different policies, they're just basically expansions of the MCOL policies, perhaps even more detailed than the MCOL's policies. Is that correct?

Yes, that is correct. And we are an accredited agency through the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police as well, meaning that our standards have been looked at thoroughly by outside sources and are best practice.

And then I want to ask you, you know, in an officer involved shooting, is there a policy which applies as to what happens after the event has occurred?

Yeah, so we've been relying on all of our policies and, you know, making sure that we're following those on a daily basis. There's several policies that apply. Again, these are all on the site, but there's a deadly force policy. There's critical incident policy, the response to resistance policy, a media policy. It's a combination of policies that we've been following very, very closely over the last month.

And in an officer-involved shooting, there is an investigation that takes place after the event has occurred. Is that correct?

Yes.

Is there a standard policy that applies to that with regard to the officer involved?

So there's not a specific policy that states that, but that has been protocol, so that's what we will be following.

And a protocol would be to place the officer on administrative leave?

The policy, or excuse me, the protocol is for us to do an internal investigation sometime after the completion of the Michigan State Police investigation. Is that what you're asking?

I'm asking if the officer involved is placed on administrative leave while the investigation takes place.

So the administration for the department has some flexibility in terms of what the status of those officers are after the completion of the Michigan state police investigation.

Okay. After, but during what happens, we still have that flexibility. Okay. And in the end, when the Michigan state police investigation is complete, that report is provided to who?

So again, do you want us to speak to the specific investigation?

Are you asking specific to this investigation or just in general investigation?

So in general, we can speak that, um, other agencies in the county have experienced it where the Michigan state police have completed their investigation. They turn it over to the Ingham county prosecutor's office where the prosecutor will then make a decision. And typically those cases are turned over to the attorney general for their final review.

And that would be our expectation, that this particular incident in that circumstance, based on what we know from Ingham County in the past, that the local prosecutor is likely to turn this over to the Attorney General's office for a review.

I think that's a fair expectation.

Okay. And is there any knowledge as to how long those reviews typically take?

We do not.

Do you want me to just from experience, they can take several months, uh, upwards of a year or more or more. Okay.

And our expectation would be that that's the process that we're expecting to be followed going forward. Is that right?

That is correct.

Okay. Thanks. That's all I've got.

Yeah. Mr. Yes. Um,

I'm sorry, is it Lieutenant O'Reil or is it Sergeant? That's Captain O'Reil. Oh, I'm actually sorry about that. That's OK. So I know I met with you at the de-escalation training that we just went through. And I appreciate you allowing me to come in there and allowing me to kind of get a view of that training. But you also talked about the other part of your job, I think, that is responsive to the community, is that correct? Or can you explain to me what you told me, what you do when it comes to contact with the community?

You're talking about community engagement? Yes. Yes.

Is that part of what you do?

Yes, that is part of what I do.

Okay. So, and I'm just asking in general, I just know that with this going on and some of the timelines I'm thinking that we're going to deal with, is there a capacity to possibly work with an organized group of the community, just talk with them and meet with them in an appropriate type of way in order for us to all be working together as opposed to them doing this and you guys doing that? in a way that respects the due process of everything that's going on. Is that something that we could consider? And not specifically you to your job, but I just was thinking about when we talked that I didn't realize that there is a capacity possibly or opportunity within that. in a way to, I mean, because look, we're, I mean, eventually we'll be in a situation where we'll be going forward. And I think going forward, we have to do it together as best we can when we can, however we can. And I just want to throw that, I guess, that abstract idea out to all of you. And for the community also to be in a situation where they're prepared to also want to have a productive going forward eventually when it's appropriate time to kind of do that. So could you respond to that please?

Can I answer that please? So we are always looking for ways for community engagement. Again, the difficulty is because there's an open investigation that could be several weeks or up to a year, we would be willing to have those community-type engagement events. But it will be difficult because I think the community will expect specific answers to questions related to this case. And so if there's ways to have engagement and conversations allow us to get feedback on how to do things better we're always willing to make that happen but again we wouldn't be able to answer any specifics about this case yeah and i and i understand that i think to a certain level a lot of people do understand that in the community i just think um

maybe in more of a general context as far as policy, policy education, policy goals. I'm just having a conversation with community members who are willing to learn more about that so then they can advocate in a way that is something that's intertwined with the department's goals as far as the community is concerned and that connection. I think that's what I'm really asking about and just that appetite for that and really quite frankly the necessity of that for us to go forward as a department and a community and being able to start eventually a process of healing.

So the chief did talked about that and actually was presented in the slideshow We just did graduate 19 members from the community from the citizens Police Academy and currently our capacity is still only host one Citizens Police Academy a year because our staffing is so so short and so low We do other community engagement events including recruiting fairs at LCC, which was the tech men of colors We're doing recruiting events if we have staffing at the glam coming up as well as And community engagement events where we have tables and we interact with people the Easter egg hunt that was talked about in the slide So we do quite a few but in regards to your specific like education piece The Citizens Police Academy and there's people that have graduated that were in the audience today that have graduated from the Citizens Police Academy and has been very Successful or eye-opening for many so if you're interested in that I'd love to have you jump in that class, but those are always held in the early spring, winter, and those classes are always full.

Thank you.

Any further comments or questions? I had just one question related to actually the swatting incidents. So you're understaffed. Those things are probably pretty intensive in terms of the response because you have to be prepared for whatever could be going on there for real. Could you address a little bit how you managed to cover those incidents given your staffing levels?

So when we do have a drain on staff of a major incident like that, it does pause essentially everything that is non-priority or that is a lesser priority, which causes potential concern that we're aware of. And if we need to, we call in mutual aid to assist us. So we have mutual aid agreements with all agencies that surround us that will come in and assist and back us. Some of them will respond to the primary scene, in this instance, the high school. Others will just kind of backfill if there's traffic accidents where injuries occur or things of that nature. they'll come in very similar to the fire department you saw some of the stats on mutual aid runs as well so yes that's why it is very concerning that these swatting incidences tie up resources that could be used for other real emergencies as in real occurring emergencies And so as we look at that, we are working with partners, including larger partners, state and federal, because some of the swatting investigation is being collaborated with them to try to find out who actually did it. And we will hold those people accountable if we can prove who they are. So it is very serious.

Did the admin have to get involved? Pardon? Did the admin have to get involved?

Yeah, to answer your question a little bit more specifically, so Assistant Chief Kraft was at the first swatting incident as well as the second one. So he led that first incident command. Again, regional partners had to be drawn in to assist with that incident. The second one, Assistant Chief Kraft and I responded ourselves, again, to make sure that the city was taken care of and the high school was safe. But for the second one, we had enough staffing of our own to be able to handle it. But again, Captain O'Hare is spot on in terms of the amount of resources these take, and it pulls away from other incidences that we should be responding to. So again, if it's something simple as a traffic accident in the city, even when there's no injuries, who wants to sit at that traffic accident for an hour waiting for a cop to arrive? So it definitely depletes and defers our resources on hand.

So it's all hands on deck in that sort of situation?

Absolutely.

Any further questions?

Council Member Singh. This is more directed to the city manager to work with ELPD. Two of the items that came from the Citizens for Justice talk about police policy, numbers three and four. If you could work with the ELPD team to create potential options for those two policy areas um within the cited legal cases um i'd be interested to see that that's it anything else anything from the city manager that we need to hear okay any anything else we need to hear from

Police Administration. Thank you for all thank you for coming tonight. And for addressing our questions. Okay, so that brings us to item 4.2. Discussion and proposed 2026 2027 strategic priorities, I will ask whether people are up for forging ahead with us.

What's the goal out of this? Because I know it's been in our budget packet, so it'd be good to understand.

Yeah, so I'll let the city manager address that.

So the goal tonight is to review these drafts, strategic priorities for 2026-27 so that ultimately you will adopt them and they will become formal for us to use in guiding allocation of city resources in the form of property taxes, income tax, grants, water store revenues, fees, and most importantly, staff time.

I have to admit, with everything going on, I just haven't had a chance to really thoroughly go through this. And I'm not quite sure if I'm the only one that hasn't. But I would love the opportunity to kind of really go through this in a way that i can really appreciate um the 133 pages of information so i can better wrap my head around that um and so i don't know kind of where everyone else is with that but that would be something that i would hope we could consider others other thoughts

I just say if the question is to defer this to the next discussion only meeting this is that would be after the budget has been uh approved hopefully and if um if anything any part of this really impacts the decision that we're about to make i guess at the next business meeting for uh with regard to the budget then we probably should keep going but By the same token, I think it's a good idea to give everybody an opportunity to really get into this and think about it. Some new members were not involved in the strategic priorities we established two years ago. And I think it'd be useful to make sure that maybe we have a little more sort of background information on what we were trying to accomplish at that time.

Council Member Singh, did that answer your question? Did you have a follow-up?

I mean, it sounds like the purpose of tonight's session is just to prepare us to vote on the budget and agree with the strategic priorities.

So the purpose of tonight is to go through the proposed 26-27 and offer any opportunities.

Strategic priorities or budget? Wait, we've already done that. Strategic priorities. Yeah.

And offer opportunities to amend, add priorities that may not have been captured or amend some of the ones that are being proposed.

So if I understand what you were saying is that we need to go through this process in order to stay within alignment with our budget decision that we have coming up. Is that what you're saying?

No, I'm not saying that. Actually, I think that it is related to the budget because our priorities, you know, basically establish the budget. But the establishment of strategic priorities is a thing of its own. This is the council's priorities. This is not staff priorities. You know, hopefully they agree with them. The reality is this is us setting the priorities for the next two years in terms of what our expectations would be. And I'll just say that in the, you know, when we established the first set of strategic priorities, it had its own meeting, basically, so that we had an in-depth discussion on each one of these things. Frankly it was a big deal and every one of the five city council members made a presentation to the public on one of the priorities. So it's changed over the years in some respects but this is an important document. that the public I think needs to see, that we need to spend time with. And so all I'm saying is we've got a budget coming up to the extent that this may dictate something in this budget. then maybe we got to spend the time right now to go through this. If it's not, then we can have it on at a meeting and spend the whole time digging through this and making our comments with regard to it. So I don't know what everybody wants to do, but I don't have a problem with... waiting to do this. I just don't want it to impact what we're required to do, which is to vote on this budget, I think, by the 20... I think it's before that, except the third meeting in May. Next Tuesday.

The reality, though, is 98% of our budgets, I mean, in terms of the recommendation for this year. Right. the staff priorities that you put together is how you built the budget because you had staff meetings yeah there's some stories that are not fun it's a little yeah it's a little it doesn't matter if we do this tonight because that's the punchline essentially this is us saying

regardless of this budget, that over the next two years, this is our expectation. These will be our priorities. These are the things that we want to accomplish and that we need to be working to make sure that those are accomplished during that time. It doesn't mean we don't add things or that other things come up, but this is sort of the game plan.

Mr. Whalen, did you have thoughts on this?

I thought I did get through most of it. I did not get through all of it. Is there any way we can have a bridge version of the changes? Is there significant changes from the last two priorities?

Well, part of my presentation was to identify those that were being carried over from 24-25, but the other ones are new. I'm sorry, which ones are new? I said part of my presentation would to identify the ones that are being carried over from 2425 and the others are new. And which ones are the new ones? I'd be happy to walk through those with you this evening. They're not noted on the document you have.

Okay. Okay. I wish, I tried to devote enough time for this, but there's a lot of other things that can't get in the way. And I do appreciate Councilmember Singh mentioning that this is kind of a staff generated. My concern is there's something in there that I missed. all of a sudden and say, wait a minute, this is your priority. Why aren't you doing this? So I guess I'm leaning heavily on our city manager to say that this is where This is where we're heading, and I just want to make sure I can sign off on it. So I guess between now and next Tuesday, I will dive into it more. I'm just wondering if there's a cliff notes of some of the changes that we need to be aware of, because I don't know what the, I don't know what they were two years ago. Does that make sense?

Yes, I understand.

So how long would it take for you to present the changes?

I can identify the ones that are carryover from prior years if you want me just to highlight those this evening.

I suggest we do a little bit of work on that front. Does that would are people okay with that? Highlight the carry overs that will get us thinking about it. And then I suggest that we just carry this over to our next deal meeting, so that we all have a chance to finish the review.

Is that I think that's a good way of going there.

Pro Tem. Yes, sir. Council nursing.

Okay.

Mr. Bellman, the floor is yours.

If I may, 2026-27 strategic priorities include 60 goals under six focus areas. Focus areas are financial stability that have nine goals, strong economy that have four, sound infrastructure and environmental sustainability have nine goals, safe community has 12, sense of place has eight, and high-performing government has 18. so i'm going to just highlight the ones that carry over from 24 25 and there are under financial stability goal eight and goal nine carry over from the prior strategic priorities Under the focus area of a strong economy, goal one, goal two, and goal three, carry over from prior strategic priorities. Under sound infrastructure and environmental sustainability, the opening statement is really continuation of 2425, goal seven, number A. And goal number two is a continuation, as well as goal three. And goal four, action item L. Goal six. Go seven and goal eight. As well as. Goal 10 in that focus area. Under the focus area of safe community. Those were all new. Under sense of place, goal one, goal two, goal five, goal six, our carryover from 2024-25. And under the final focus area of high performing government, goal one, goal five, goal seven, goal 10, goal 18, carry over from 24 to 25. Now I can send that out in a memo to you too, if you would like me to. I know you have strong recollection.

So we've had a request to do that. Okay. Any reactions to that brief overview? Questions or comments? Mr. Grigsby?

I JUST THANK YOU FOR ADJUSTING I MEAN I KNOW OH YOU'RE WELCOME YOU HAD IT YOU HAD A SOMETHING PROBABLY ELSE IN MINE I MEAN I LIKE I SAID I DO APOLOGIZE THAT UM I JUST DIDN'T THOROUGHLY HAVE A THE CAPACITY TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THIS AND I REALLY WANT TO APPRECIATE IT AND LEARN UP BECAUSE I YOU KNOW THIS I THINK THIS IS IMPORTANT AS COUNCIL MEMBER MEADOWS MENTIONED AND THERE WAS A LOT OF WORK PUT INTO and I just want to make sure that I'm on the same page as I visit departments and meet with people and just kind of really make sure that I'm understanding how to best serve going forward. So thank you.

And if I may, the biggest component of the 133 pages is just a recap and kind of summary report of the 24-25 strategic priorities. You know, we tried to identify in a graphic format those that were completed had a checkmark, those that were still being made or progress being made had an upward arrow, and then those that no progress was being made was a downward arrow. after that as a lot of details that were shared by departments identifying specific actions events program services that supported those summary reports just so as staff was going through some of the fire chief that

is it increasing cost recovery by 3%? Right. Is that an achievable goal that staff felt comfortable in including?

I believe so.

Okay. And then for the, um, I think there's another one in terms of the parks and rec, um, reducing the general fund contribution. Yeah. By 10%. Yes. Um, do, is that achievable?

so we're we're close when we did the adjustment at the last meeting of about 400 000 you know we were just shy of 10 because i think we're 2.6 million so that would have been about 520 so about 120 000 shy i thought that was a nice attempt and i'm i know they'll continue to work on trying to shave off costs

And has the Parks and Rec Commission had any feedback for our director on that goal?

Not that I'm aware of. I know he was provided the flexibility of how to absorb that reduction in $400,000, and I know he was going to take it back to the advisory board to share with them some of his conceptual approaches. I don't know if that's taken place.

And forgive me, because I am skimming back through the presentation. I'm looking at some of the sense of place, and this is definitely. You know, one of the best attributes of the city of East Lansing, but one I would argue is in a challenging time right now. Like when you talk about address barriers to participation of community outreach and analyzing program participation and demographic area, is that going to be department wide departmental wide across the enterprise?

yeah i'm sure uh the approaches across departments but it's going to focus on you know i know matt apostle is doing some of that through dmb and tracking who comes to events i know parks and rec and arts have been doing it through all of their programs the scholarship that they offer allows for those that may not be able to afford outright to attend to be able to attend and participate in some of those programs so that hits some of the points that fall under that goal including demographic area you know in this the whole

equity piece that has become a bad term under this federal administration. I know once upon a time we talked about, or at least privately, you and I had a conversation about publishing demographic data on our workforce.

Right.

And moving the needle. Do we have any of those pieces outlined enterprise-wide? And I say that's across all departments.

That's where some, I mean, the work that still needs to be done is to report on it and see if we are, in fact, having positive impact through the investments we make either through DEI office and through HR and our recruitment efforts are training opportunities and trying to get at the organizational level, the work group level and the supervisory level all aligned with inclusive type activities, policies and behavior.

And how like action IMD leveraged mutually beneficial partnerships to provide relevant opportunities to responsive to that are responsive to community needs. Like who's in charge of that?

Which one are you talking about?

Sense of place, action item D you want to talk? I'm talking it's because of whaling whaling. We're still here. is that under which goal i'm sorry sense of place it's on page 47 page in my document here okay but there's a goal is it go one item d it's after safe community sense of goal one action item d b d is in dog okay

leverage mutually beneficial partnerships to provide relevant opportunities that are responsive to community needs.

It'll be Parks and Rec.

It'll be, you know, other departments that do have partnerships through our neighbors. Be it the university. Be it the downtown. But I'll get you further clarification if...

I guess at the end of the day, you're in charge, ultimately.

Absolutely.

All right. I'm done.

So a couple of comments. I like this approach. I think I've been through a bunch of versions of the strategic priorities, as Mark was saying earlier, and I like this idea of having staff because they've got hands on every day and generating, you know, ideas, and then we get to sort of snapshot them in place. So I like this approach. One of the things that struck me during your recitation of the carryover is that there's a lot of new goals and action items on here. And I guess my question is whether there's too many or an appropriate number or whether it sort of dovetails with what we're doing anyway. I guess my point is I don't want people to think that we're asking them to go beyond what they have the capacity to do. That's kind of my question. And so I don't know if... I hope that appropriate level of realism is already built in here, but I hope as we sort of review this that people should feel free to say, okay, this just is too much for us or something like that. I don't know if you want to address that comment.

Sure. That is in part why this approach was taken. If you recall back in 24 in January, departments got up and just told you some of the challenges and opportunities that they faced, and then council shaped the 10 goals that we adopted in 24-25. This one is, one, it involved all departments. They all have some element of goals and action items in this document. Two, they tried to focus on what they're already working on. Three, yes, there are 60 goals in here. We may not get to a mall where we say at the end of two years, they're complete. Some of these goals are going to be ongoing, um, and require continuous conversation with council coming back about implications of IE, the stormwater authority to pursue examine setting up a stormwater authority is going to have multiple levels of discussion with council as to what does that look like? What is the implications financially and how will it benefit the city moving forward?

Okay, that's helpful. So as long as people know that not every goal needs to be accomplished in two years, I think that's important.

Yeah, no, as you noticed, too, some of the ones that were not completed carried over.

Yep.

I'm sorry.

Was there, Council Member Singh, did you have something you wanted to contribute?

I'm just reacting to your statement like it's just strange to me to have a goal document and then say we're not we may not achieve them like that is bizarre to me from a planning standpoint from a strategic plan from an operational standpoint

they are there with the intent of trying to achieve but as we all know you know this document will change it's supposed to be a living document based on what we face over the next two years some of what we may get challenged by bump some of these off the front page and become secondary definitely experience that

And there's also, that opens the door to opportunities too, right? So if things change in a way that make it possible to make progress on a goal that we couldn't make before, then that's an opportunity. Exactly. I did have one comment, having said that I think there might be too many goals, I want to float the idea of adding a new one. to the sense of place. Yes, you absolutely do. Which is something that's grown out of the conversations we've had the past couple of years, which is under sense of place to add a new goal to maintain stability of residential neighborhoods. AND I CAN THINK OF A COUPLE ACTION ITEMS THAT MIGHT BE CANDIDATES FOR THAT. ONE IS TO CONTINUE TO HELP HOMEOWNERS AND REALTORS UNDERSTAND OUR RENTAL REGULATIONS SO THAT THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GETTING INTO. um and also uh work with realtors to help prospective homeowners to try to prevent violations of our rental regulations before they occur and i suspect we're already doing those things to some extent but if we are then it might not hurt to add it but i think there is this issue of sort of helping people understand uh how we got to where we are in terms of our sort of the landscape of our neighborhoods and how the regulations are relevant to that. Any further comments on that or anything else? Okay. So we will plan to then see this on our next deal meeting agenda, um, a month from now or three weeks from now, three weeks. Um, and we'll, we got the ball rolling tonight. So at that point we'll have a sort of fuller discussion.

Any further comments on anything else? Okay.

That brings us to, uh, item five, which is a German. Is there a motion?

I moved to adjourn.

Moved by Singh, second by Whalen. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Motion carries. We are adjourned. Thank you all.