Council - Regular Meeting

Welcome to the uh East Lancing City Council regular meeting of May 12th, 2026. The meeting will come to order. Could we have the roll call, please? Council member Whan here. Council member Meadows here. Council member Singh here. Mayor Pro Tim Griggsby here. Mayor Alman here. Is there a motion concerning the agenda?

Yes. I want to make a motion to move uh item 3.4 up to 3.1. So motion by Griggsby to approve the agenda with item 3.4 city manager report as the new item 3.1 and the other items under three renumbered. Is there a second? Second.

Second by Meadows. Any discussion of that motion? Well, the reason why I made that motion um is I wanted to um hear from the city manager about some procedural steps um in some of our conversation that we're going to have tonight. I think is important uh for everyone in the room uh to understand as well as myself. Thank you. Any further discussion of the motion to approve the agenda? Seeing none, the motion is on uh the agenda as amended. All those in favor say I. I any opposed? That motion carries. The agenda is approved without change.

Uh is there a motion concerning the minutes of previous meetings? I make a motion to approve um the set of meeting minutes. Second. Motion by Singh to approve the special meeting minutes of 28th April 2026. the special discussion only meeting minutes of 28th April 28th 2026 and the regular council me meeting meeting minutes of April 21st 2026. Uh motion by Singh second by Griggsby. Are there any corrections to those minutes? Seeing none, the motion is on the minutes as presented. All those in favor say I. I.

I. Any opposed? Uh the motion carries. Those minutes are approved. Is there a motion concerning item 2.1 closed session? I'll make a motion for close session discuss consult with city attorneys regarding privilege and confidential attorney client leaveo correspondence that is exempt for disclosure by state law as allowed under subsection 81H of Michigan open meetings act. Motion by Griggsby, second by second uh Whan. Uh a roll call vote please. Council member Whan, yes. Council member Meadows, yes. Council member Singh, yes. Mayor Proim Griggsby, yes.

Mayor Alman, yes. We are adjourned to close session and we'll return after the close session close session completes.

We are back in open session. Um, this brings us to communications. The new item 3.1 is the city manager report. Mr. Bellman,

sorry. Um, thank you very much. So, I just want to kind of share some information's been um slow to be released from the city as to what happened last week and our need to pivot on the release of body cam footage or um vehicle footage associated with the incidents or events that led up to um the police officer involved shooting. and the um death of Isaiah Christopher Kirby. So, a while back as we were attempting to work through and learn from uh welcome weekend, uh we had conversations about reaching out to Lancing, former Lancing Police Chief Allerie Sby and kind of take lessons learned that he deployed and helping us um involve the public, reinstate trust and share information. So, East Lancing Police Chief Jim Brown was preparing a uh narrated um video of the events. um balancing transparency with the investigation integrity and um we started inviting in well we were working with our media team, communications team and then we started inviting in stakeholders uh the victim from the stabbing uh the ad u advocates and leaders for police and community trust which is known as alpac uh so KDO Sullivan and John John Joseph who is also the

Lancing Township Police Chief along with um Michael West and Sue Webster, yourselves, the city council. And then on May 7th, we met with the family of um Isaiah Kirby and and AACP President James Mccurtis. was at that point that we learned um some mixed messages were being shared between the LPD and the Michigan State Police. So after the attorneys finished meeting with the family, we came back or I joined them and and um Chief Brown contacted Michigan State Police and after making several phone calls learned that around 5:00 p.m. on the 7th of May that they had completed all of their interviews. And so therefore at that point uh they did not have any concerns with release of footage and in essence said it's up to the city of East Lancing. So that took us back to the drawing board and so uh communication that was released today uh since Thursday um with the assistance of the uh support of the Lancing Police Department. our staff uh have been working on uh preparing uh redactions or adjustments that are appropriate under Michigan law. So certain faces have to be um redacted as well as any information that was on incar uh computers which is lean under state law has to be blocked out. So that's

what they're working on. Uh the goal is to uh expand that narrated uh video include fully all of the way through to the end from the very beginning and simultaneously provide access to what is commonly referred to as raw video. But that too will have redactions required by state law. But there will be six body camera footage that will be posted to the city's website as well as the three fleet cam footage. So, anybody can watch the narrated portion or get right into uh the I'll use again quotes, the raw footage from the officer's body camera and the vehicle footage from that incident. And those are your remarks.

It is. Okay. Uh thank you. So that brings us to uh written communications. All written communications. I do have a question then. When will that be available for the public? So it's it's our goal to have that available this Friday. Okay.

Thank you for that. I meant to mention that. Okay. Uh that brings us to uh all written communications received by the council at the at the email account council@c cityblancing.com uh before 4 p.m. the day of the meeting are posted to the meeting agenda. Uh and council members and the city manager read those emails as they come in in real time. Next item on the agenda is the new 3.3 communications uh from the audience. Um, our first speaker tonight is uh Shelley Davis Boyd. Council members, my name is Shelley Davis Boyd and I'm here tonight as a mother speaking on behalf of my children whose lives were changed forever on April 15, 2026, the night their father Douglas Mock was nearly murdered in our community. Much of the public conversation since that night has centered on the man accused of attacking my children's fathers father and the action of responding officers. What has been largely absent and has not been acknowledged is the victim of this attack and the trauma it has inflicted on our family. To be clear, my children's father was not engaged in a confrontation. He was not participating in criminal activity. He was simply leaving a barber shop after getting a haircut when he was violently attacked from behind by someone he had never met as he was getting into his car. As I understand it, he sustained at least 12 stab wounds along with numerous defensive blunt for force injuries while fighting for his life against a man one-third his age. This happened just a few short miles from the neighborhood our family knows is home. That evening, I was attending a board meeting when I missed a call from our son. When I did not answer, he called his father instead. As I was leaving the meeting, I

saw and heard police cars racing down Abbott Road, never imagining it had anything to do with my family. Our son was on his phone on the phone with his father throughout the attack. I want that to sit with this council today. Our son was more than 50 miles away, finishing his junior year in college when he suddenly found himself listening in real time as his father was being ambushed and fought for his life. A brave stranger later picked up his father's phone and told our son that his dad had been stabbed numerous times. Moments later, our son called me in uncontrollable tears, saying that he could not lose his dad and was racing home from college as fast as he could. As I rushed home, I called our doctor, our daughter, and told her to meet me in the driveway because something terrible had happened. Together, we raced toward an active crime scene before learning her father was already on his way to the hospital, still not knowing his condition. While our son was frantically driving back to East Lancing, our 18-year-old daughter was suddenly being forced to make medical decisions for her father as doctors prepared life-saving measures because of the severity of his injuries. Before emergency surgery, our daughter briefly saw her father bloodied, beaten, and unable to speak and struggling to survive. After that fear-filled drive home, our son sat in the hospital waiting room for hours, not knowing if he would see his dad again. Thankfully, his dad survived surgery. But our son, when our son was finally allowed to see him, he collapsed on the hospital floor at the sight of him. Their dad spent several days in the ICU. People do not end up in ICU for superficial wounds or routine recovery. What our children witnessed was traumatic and terrifying. Despite everything, when medically cleared to leave the hospital, their father refused a wheelchair because he wanted our children to know that he had not been defeated. Our children are legally adults, but their father and I made the decision together not to have them here tonight because they've already endured so much more trauma than young people should ever have to carry. Our son missed the final weeks of his college

because he was afraid to leave his dad's side and felt like he needed to be there for our family as we figured how to understand what recovery would look like. Our daughter became fearful of returning to school and missed important parts of her senior year while carrying anxiety around the public attention that this incident has attracted. And layered on top of all of that has been the deeply polarizing public discourse from people who have no real understanding of what happened the day my children's father was almost murdered. Although their father survived, survival is not the same as being okay. What has been especially difficult is watching so much public attention focus on the person accused of this violence while the victim of this brutal and life-threatening attack has gone largely unrecognized and unagnowledged. The loudest voices are not always the ones carrying the deepest wounds. This was not a misunderstanding. This was not an altercation. This was not a mutual convert confrontation. This was an extreme act of violence. And while we extend our condolences to the family suffering unimaginable loss, compassion for one family should not require the eraser of another. I also want to acknowledge that their father is alive today because of the immediate response of the East Lancing police officers, firefighters, paramedics, surgeons, nurses, and trauma staff who acted quickly to save his life. Without them, my children would likely likely be planning their father's funeral instead of helping him recover and figure out how they knew live with this new reality. remaining.

I am not here tonight to inflame any division. I am here asking for humanity. I'm asking this council, the media, and the community to publicly acknowledge the victim of this violent attack and the lasting impact it has had on our family. My children deserve to know that their community sees them and that their father's suffering is real. And importantly, that victims of violent crimes and their families carrying the aftermath should not disappear from the conversation. Thank you. Thank you for your comments and thank you for being here tonight. Izzy Sinowitz. Sorry, I'm not very tall, so I got to I had to move that down a little bit. Good evening. My name is Izzy Savvage and I use they them pronouns. I'm a math secondary education student at Michigan State University, and in August, I will be a senior. Two weekends ago, I watched my fellow MSU students cross the stage on the floor of the Breland Center and graduate with their undergraduate degrees. As I watched each student have their name read aloud, get the get to turn their tassels to the left side of their caps, and celebrate with their family members, I couldn't help but think of an MSU student who shouldn't have been up there with them. His name was Isaiah Kirby. He was 21 years old, only a month away from turning 22, and about to graduate from MSU with a degree in zoology with a concentration in herpatology. He should have been there celebrating with his peers, friends, and family like the rest of his graduating class, but the East Lancing Police Department prevented him from getting that chance. The East Lancing Police Department shot Isaiah Kirby 17 times, according to his mother. In what in what world is shooting a child 17 times justifiable regardless of whatever crime you think they may have committed? On the city of East Lancing website, it states that the city council adopted a resolution in

2018 that, and I quote, acknowledges, apologizes for, and condemns racial discrimination in East Lancing. How can you claim to uphold this resolution and even promote this resolution when you refuse to release any of the video footage from the murder of a black child due to the city's own police department's use of excessive force, especially when the family has explicitly asked for it to be released. I'm here to demand that the East Lancing Police Department release any and all unedited video footage from the murder of Isaiah Kirby on April 15th in the name of transparency. His family deserves answers and so does the community. Justice must be served and no one, not even police officers, despite what they may believe, are above the law. Thank you for your time and justice for Isaiah. Tashika Torak. Hi. Uh the thing is I don't actually feel like this is a argument between the community about who deserves to be seen. What I actually feel like is that if the city would have released the information immediately to the family that has been requesting it, we would not be standing here. Everyone can be acknowledged. all of the grief, all of the pain, but violence at the hands of people who have this much power without any transparency or accountability, especially after we spent the time we have talking about Lonnie and Mason being pepper-sprayed and having the same problems leading up to this does not make for a solution. Our community deserves answers and it doesn't matter actually on which side you stand. Everyone should be able to get body cam footage that the community pays for. That is the standard. We are allowed to know that if someone gets shot 17 times or stabbed 12 times and the police respond, everybody gets answers.

So, can we please have the footage that is unredacted, unnarrated, that actually reveals the full picture so all of the people involved can actually resolve this matter and know what happened? That's all that's being asked and it's actually not that much to ask. Lots of police departments release body cam footage. If you go on any YouTube channel, you can find all kinds of body cam footage. We just need to have the answers so that the family can understand what happened to their son. I have children. I know that children act all kinds of different ways. I often tell people if you see my children and they're doing something and you're asking yourself who raised them. I did. And I promise you I told them not to be doing that. And so if you have something where you have a child of someone who has consequences that their parents don't understand, we often are found asking for answers. Whether it's a teacher, a coach, doesn't matter. We just want to know so we can address it, right? And so it's not unreasonable for the family to be asking for asking for this footage and it's not unreasonable for the city to release it. On top of that, the Ellipo and HRC, the ways that those two bodies have been limited only is going to result in more of this conflict. Nobody's family should have to watch people debate whether they deserve to die online because the information just isn't released. That is actually a part of your responsibility is the care of the community. And so I just would like you again just please release the footage. That's all that's being asked. No one has to be. We obviously we all well many of us want Jen Brown to resign, but first and foremost, we can get the footage. That's it. Thank you.

Thank you, Maxmillian Muckleberry. And I apologize if I got that wrong. Max Millian M is the last name. We will try that again later. Uh, Abby Takakei.

My name is Abby Takakei. I live on Blanchett Drive. I'm also currently serving on the East Lancing School Board, but my comments today are my own. I'm here to express deep concern and sadness about the direction of policing and accountability in East Lancing. As a former president of the Pinerest Neighborhood Association, I had established relationships with the ELPD liaison for our neighborhood and the neighborhood resource specialist team. I participated in Citizens Police Academy. I did a ride along with you, Council Member Whan. I provided letters of support to advance the career of an officer within our force that I believe is doing exceptional work. I did all these things to inform myself about an institution that holds enormous authority and consumes a significant majority of our city's budget, our taxpayer dollars. Concerns about implicit racial bias within our police force are not abstract. They come from lived experiences that have caused real harm and grow and a growing reality that accountability is always just out of reach. Residents continue returning to these meetings month after month, week after week, speaking through grief, anger, and frustration. And now it feels as though those comments are treated as an inconvenience to be managed rather than evidence that this community believes its leadership is still failing to adequately address these issues. Difficult issues in our city are too often buried in committee, delayed by procedure, and lost in technical debates until public attention fades. And that cannot be how accountability works in East Lancing. Accountability is not an attack on law enforcement. officers already have strong structural protections, including union representation. What the community is asking for is not hostility toward police, but transparency, truth, oversight, and reassurance that no institution is beyond accountability. I was also shocked and disgusted today to learn that not a single member of this council has contacted the family of Isaiah Kirby. Do better. I ask that you immediately release the

full unedited footage of the family to the family of Isaiah Kirby and the East Lancing Independent Police Oversight Commission and allow the Ellip to do what it was created to do. I also wish to amplify the request of Isaiah Kirby's mother that our police force immediately review and revise your procedures and training to use less lethal tactics in these matters. 17 bullet wounds. Thank you. Thank you, Robin Etcherson. to you, city council. You've not demonstrated in the five years that I've been observing you, you've not demonstrated your commitment to transparency and accountability. What you've given us is a lot of talk, a lot of words, but your actions have said differently, completely totally different. You changed an ordinance that gave us some powers, some insight, some abilities to be trans, hold you transparent and accountability. I say to you as city council, you need transparency. You need to be held accountable. You have not committed to it whatsoever. So I want to ask you right now, what part did you play and what part do you play? And what are you going to do now from this day forward? 17 bullet holes. How can that even in remotely be acceptable? You a police officer, retired police officer, you need to explain. I would like for you to sit down with me personally, however, and you explain to me how that they can justify shooting a human being 17 times and then cla and then that's it takes 17 bullet holes in an individual to to

render them incapacitated and no longer a threat. What part do you all play in it? Where do you go from here? What are you going to do about it now? 17 bullet holes. This happened on your watch. This will be your legacy from now on. You will not forget it. You will never forget it. East Lancing will not forget it. East Lancer will never forget it. I will not forget it. I've had sleepless nights over it. I will not let you forget it. As long as I have breath in my body, if I have to come back here 10, 15, 20 years from now, you might not even be here. But I will remind whoever is sitting in that position 17 bullet holes. That's unacceptable. And there's no way in any shape, form, or fashion that that can be justified. But that'll be your legacy. Again, I reiterate your lack of commitment to transparency and accountability. That is part of what got us here from my observation with transparency and accountability that would have sent a message to the police department and their policies. Conduct yourself. Take a moment to breathe before you do something, before you do actions. Excessive force. I've watched this police department over the last 5 years exert excessive force. doing things to contain situations and criminalizing citizens of East Lansancy unnecessarily. You taking you destroyed whatever little oversight or potential for oversight that we possibly could have had by what you did by you diminished all whatever left powers or perceived powers that the commission had intentionally. I ask you why. Why are you What is it that disturbs you? Why are you so afraid of transparency, accountability? Why is that such an issue? Why is that

disturbing? There's no profession on the planet that I know of that is not subjected to transparency and accountability. I've had Mark come to the council one to the commission one time and he spoke he gave some no disrespect Mark but a some watered down version of trans what they felt and why there was no commitment to transparency and accountability here again 17 bullet holes please what how did we get here the reason we got here is trans lack of transparency and accountability lack of transparency and accountability. And then you'd make a decision. You hire a police chief with no or very limited experience as a police chief anywhere. And she had been out of policing for a considerable amount of years. But yet and still, you found it acceptable that she should be the police chief over a police force that has also a low average of policemen with experience. And here we are. This is how we got here from my perspective. 17 bullet holes. But where do we go from here? I'm not going to forget it. I'm not going to ever forget it. I'm not going to never let you forget it. 30 seconds

because you bear some responsibility for this by your lack of commitment and your lack of commitment to transparency and accountability. Chief Brown bears some commit some responsibility a grievous amount of responsibility for her lack of commitment to transparency and accountability. It will never end here. But I want to warn you in these last few seconds if you don't do something about it, if you don't address it, if you don't get involved with it, it will happen again. We'll be here again. And one of these days it might be one of your own. Thank you. James Mccurtis Jr.

Good evening. Excuse me. On uh April the 14th, I came before the city council and said that um Chief Jen Brown needs to step down. She needs to be removed. And on that same day, I said, "What is it going to take for the city council to hold Chief Jen Brown accountable, Jennifer Brown accountable? Is it going to take another George Floyd moment?" That's what I said on that Tuesday, April the 14th. That very next day, Isaiah Kirby, his life was taken away. MSU senior, zoology major, young man who had a bright future, taken away by East Lancing police. Here we are. Your handling of this from the top down is abysmal. It's a disgrace. The people deserve better. The citizens of East Lancing, the citizens of this greater Lancing area, the community deserve better. Your handling of this horrible HRC is the only commission that came out with the report that held your police department accountable. You didn't do it. The HRC is the only one that did that. You want to take away their power? Ely, who oversees the police department. When things like this happen, you want to take away their power.

You want to reduce their budgets, both of them. You want to take away any type of power they have when it comes to oversight. There's something about East Lancing that just don't want to tell the truth and that that doesn't want to be transparent. And why is that? We should know what happened by now. We don't. We shouldn't have to wait until Friday to find out what happened on April 15th. We shouldn't have to wait until Friday. That video should have been released because the video put together for the family, family attorney, for the Kirby family and myself to see that was a farce. That video was a joke.

And it makes no sense. The only way, and I plead to the people, to the citizens of East Lancing, the only way we're gonna have any change is if you vote every individual sitting up here out of their office. Amen. Amen.

You need a different city council. You need a different city council because the city council doesn't want to hold the city accountable. The city manager doesn't take accountability for it. Chief Jen Brown, Jennifer Brown doesn't take accountab account accountability for it either. They don't want to be held accountable. We've been calling for the chief's resignation since I'm talking about the NAACP and other citizens been calling for her resignation since August because of what happened with the whole pepper spring incident. And now we have this tragedy. We need new city council people to stand up. We need new candidates so that everyone up here at this pod at this table can be voted out and replace the city manager and replace the chief of police. That's what needs to be done. East Lancing's house is dirty and it needs to be cleaned.

Thank you, Kayla Gomez. Kayla Gomez.

Good evening. My name is Kayla. Sorry. Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Kayla Gomez. I'm a resident of East Lancing and a member of the Human Rights Commission. I am here speaking on my personal capacity tonight. I am heartbroken by the actions of the city and lack thereof. Um I chose to move my family here for the diversity and amazing community that it provides. You've done nothing but proven that that might be the wrong choice and that breaks my heart. My kids don't feel safe to go out in the community as they don't they don't have a white appearing appearance and that's devastating to me. I have shown up at every chance and asked for support from council personally and as commission members and the lack of response has been devastating. We have asked for Jen Brown to be stepped down or to be released with no response at any turn. And I'm just here to say do what's right. Get ahead of it now please for the families involved and to stop this from happening again. Thank you, Steven Shablinski.

Hi, council. Thanks for hosting this meeting again today. I am an East uh Lancing resident and an educator here in the community, an educator of students the exact same age as Isaiah Kirby. I'm here today to re reiterate a lot of what others have already said about uh what we've all been talking about so far. There is a lack of urgency around the transparency around this event. I also want to reiterate what Tash Mika has said powerfully. I'm not here to take sides based on confusing information. This is about the process that has been less than transparent. I'm deeply disturbed not just by the event itself. A person was stabbed and almost lost their life and a shooting death. A young boy shot 17 times. But now more than ever, a clouded message from the city, from ELPD about what has transpired. I'm concerned from what I've seen in the media and the pre press release from the ELPD. Why has city council not demanded the unedited video be released as fast as possible? This seems imminent to me. City Council should be the first to want to show to the public what happened so that everyone can understand the truth behind this. I am here then to strongly encourage the council to urge accountability on behalf of ELPD. And I'll reiterate what I heard at the Kirby family's attorney's uh press release

today in Lancing. Please release the raw unedited footage immediately. Thank you. Thank you, Nazita Lajivardi.

Good evening everyone and thank you uh for having us here. I'm also an educator in the community. I also educate uh students Isaiah's age. You can probably guess where I'm employed. At my job, I care for, I nurture, and I teach students who are the foundation of this community. And I'd like to remind everyone here that students and people aged 18 to 24 constitute half of the city's residents. The shooting of Isaiah Kirby has alarmed all of us. And I think it is natural, if not necessary, for the residents of this community to ask themselves, how can 17 bullets in a child's body be warranted in this situation? And I feel it should be the duty of this city, the duty of all of you to mitigate concerns and to immediately prove that the level of force was necessary in the moment that it was deployed. On a professional level, I have students coming to my office hours who are sharing how scared they are for their lives when they're pulled over in the aftermath. A colleague of mine is sharing her grief over losing Isaiah. He was a talented student in her classroom. She said he was one of the most engaged and vibrant students she's had all semester. and going to graduation and knowing that Isaiah would not be celebrating his accomplishments was such an awful reality to have to confront. Not just for us as faculty, but for his family, for his friends, for his community. And I just thought about him all throughout that evening. On a personal level, I cannot help but grieve all of the investment that Isaiah's family has showered him with for everything that was ripped away from them so suddenly without explanation. all the water, the soil, the sunshine, and the nutrients that Isaiah's family has showered him with only for it to be taken away in that split sp second. And I keep thinking, and people have been raising this over and over again, but

someone tried to take out the president of the United States, and that person is still alive. So why is Isaiah dead? That is a question I cannot make sense of. So I am here to echo other people who have spoken here tonight for transparency and accountability in the following form. That is for the records of the following in their complete raw and wholly unedited form to be released. First, all body camera footage from every officer present at the scene from time of dispatch through conclusion of the incident. Second, all dash cam or vehicle mounted camera footage from every LEPD vehicle dispatched to the scene. Third, all recorded or written statements, notes, or information obtained from passers by bystanders and witnesses or near the scene on April 15th, 2026, including any voluntary accounts given to officers on the scene. And I just want to say that by not releasing the full footage or releasing it in drips and drabs, out of order and in pieces, this is causing the family enormous distress. And they have not only had to grieve their son, which they're not able to do, they are spending their time right now filing motions, holding press conferences. This is awful to have to take all these legal procedures and not be able to grieve your son. So, I understand that this is an ongoing investigation, but the family and the public have waited several weeks now, almost a month, and this is almost like a slap in their face to not have accountability and full transparency. What is the point of qualified immunity when you're shooting someone in the back? That is another question I keep asking myself. How can you fear for your life when you shoot someone in their back? That is a question I think I'm not probably I'm probably not the only one thinking about it, but I think others are thinking about it, too. Okay, I'll close with this. 17 bullet holes. It is unacceptable. This cannot be our city's legacy. We still ostensibly live in a

democracy and you, the democratic elected leaders of our city, have a representation to the residents of this city. Thank you.

Kelly Ellsworth Etcherson, please. Good evening, council. On January 4th, 2025, the ELPD made contact with a black man eating at McDonald's. They approached him and told told him that the manager wanted him trespassed. The bodywn camera footage shows him getting up and trying to leave. Then he's asked to present his ID. This is important to note because at the point that he began to leave, the trespass is over and therefore he doesn't need to present ID. Yet officers in this community escalated very quickly and tased him. On August 23rd, Mr. Nathan Leslie Warner, a 21-year-old, was tased and arrested for brandishing a knife during welcome week. A non-lethal option allows Mr. Warner's family to still have their son. Miss Karen Kirby entrusted her son, her beloved son Isaiah, into our community's care when he selected MSU. Your law enforcement failed the Kirby family by acting as judge, jury, and executioner. And now you, city council, are failing this community and region.

Councilman Chuck Griggsby, while you have proximity to the white power structure, as a black man with black children, you and they are also at risk. Maybe not with this police force, but within other communities. Y

I stand before you requesting the removal of Chief of Police Jen Brown and I ask for the full release of the video, not just for the Kirby family, but as Shelley Milock, um Shelley Boyd, sorry, Shelley Davis Boyd, sorry. And I know Shelly, we work together. Um, but they do also deserve cuz this isn't this isn't us against them. They are suffering as well. And the family of both victims need transparency and accountability. And you need to serve the community that elected you to these positions and not take them for granted. Thank you. Kayla Forest Huitt. Kayla Forest Huitt.

It's Carla Forest. I'm sorry. Carla Forest. Thank you.

Uh good evening. My name is Carl Forest Huitt. Um I am here as a mother. I live in the community. I've even worked for the city. I think that when we get to a point where we hold the things that bring us together hostage to budget, budget discussions and and talk about uh things in ways that remove the humanity from the things that make a community great, the things that bring us together is problematic. We cannot continue to dehumanize each other. We are people. Not because we have different skin colors, one matters more, right? And so I say I'm a mother. I have three children, three boys, three black boys. And so my anxiety is very high, right? I chose a small community to live in because I know these are realities. And the reality that because my child looks differently, he can be questioned by some random stranger. Are you lost? Right? This happens to my child. And to me, because of the positionality, it means something else. It means this person is looking at my child and asking whether or not they belong here. Right? This should not be happening. Right? Things like this are allowed to happen when we continue to show that we do not have bonds or ties to each other. It is important that we cultivate care, a love ethic. Like Bel Hook said, these things are important. We cannot just sit and be distant from each other. The Hannah Community Center is important. It matters. lives. People's children grow here and and grow into adulthood. The

MSU students who come to our community matter when they come to welcome week not because of your skin color. You are allowed to misbehave. Right? You cannot treat somebody completely different because of their skin color and say you are denying their right to exist if you do not allow them to make mistakes to live a full life. Why do we think that we must use power and oppression to deny human beings their right to exist? It is important that we think about our decisions and when we make things, accountability matters. Accountability is essential. It makes us feel that you care. It makes us feel that you care. And the thing that hurts the most is when there's indifference, silence, no eye contact, no followup, nothing, nothing said, nothing done. And then robotic things like I won't even say, but they have no value.

Human connection is what matters, right? For all of us. For everyone who comes into the city, belonging is essential, right? And in order to cultivate that, we have to make different decisions. We cannot be the same as we were yesterday. We have to be better. We always must be better. And it's not just our thoughts are just part of us. But the decisions we make, regardless of what we think, is essential to how we are going to be remembered and how the future will unfold. Thank you. Good night.

Thank you, Josh Huitt. Um hello everybody. Um just firstly I just want to say to um um Douglas Milak's wife um I'm sorry for what happened to your to your husband. Um if it happened to my wife I I would feel the same thing too. I would be angry and I'd want answers as well. So I think her coming here and asking for answers I don't think that's a bad thing. And and and what a lot of people said before as well. We're not against her. It's it's not about a debate as to who's wrong or who's right. We just want accountability. We just want something to be released where we can see what the truth was. So again, from from the bottom of my head, I'm sorry for what happened to your husband. I really am. Kathle has said multiple times, two things can be true at the same time, and I think that's a situation that we're facing here as well. Um I want to go back to what happened to Lonnie and Mason um during welcome weekend. Um, and and I think it's connected to what's happening here today because we've been asking for something to be done. Um, you council members, I I I keep asking like just for one person, um, Robert Bellman, Jen Brown, or just one single just somebody just stand up and say something, please. We've been asked I I don't want to be here tonight. I'll be honest with you. Carly is my wife. We have three kids at home. I don't want I don't want to be here, but I've been asking the NAACP um um leader um James Mccurtis has been asking Simone Parazza, he's been coming, he told you guys about the issues facing regarding the young police officers and how they react to situations. We've been asking over and over Robin Etcherson in the police oversight commission meetings, I've been going two years ago, I I heard him saying over and over accountability, accountability, transparency, and nobody's listening. So I'm asking again you council just one person please just stand up and say something. I know a lawsuit is pending and there's stuff that can be said but we never even needed to get to that point when the situation took place in August

25th. I think the lawsuit was filed sometime in November if if if I'm if I'm not mistaken. You guys had two months to just stand up and say, "Hey, we saw the body cam footage. Well, we saw the body cam footage and we saw the surveillance footage from from Dave Saw Chicken." And it was pretty clear that Jen Brown lied in terms of what took place and what what what was the truth. And not a single one of you guys stood up and said, "Hey, Jen Brown, come up here so we can talk. What you did was a lie. You need to at least apologize to the young men that you pepper-sprayed." That's the start of it. And not a single one of you guys said anything. Is it you have a son, Chuck? You have a son. May All I know I I know you don't have kids, so there's a possibility you may not see things the same way somebody who has kids does. And I I won't I won't hold that against you. I've come here multiple times and I've been angry and that's that's not me. I don't want to be here. I don't like being beat out in public. I'll be honest with you guys. Eric Hullman, I'm asking you. I I disagree with a lot of things that you've said and done and I I want to move past that. I want to move I I I would I would even I I would want to talk to you even if it's something that I don't think we can find common ground on just because I want to see change.

I I want to move past the hate because I I I just I dislike you because I've been paying attention to what you've been saying. But I I want to move past that. I I'm I'm begging you just please somebody just say the right just do the right thing. That's all I'm asking. Let's do the right thing. Thank you, Sarah Zurkl. Sarah Zurkl, please.

Good evening. My name is Sarah Zwickle. I'm sorry. It's okay.

Sarah Zickle. Uh I am standing here as a u member of the East Lancing community. Um a mom. Uh our house is near Abbott and every time the police respond to a shooting, my two daughters um are up and have some um recurring fears around that. But I want to read something today. I'm standing with my friends and my community members, Carla and Joshua, and I want to read something to offer as a possibility. Um, words maybe to just reflect on written by somebody who was also killed with gun violence. Um, as grief grieavves in full and our community, I hope decides in good faith to move forward with each other. Um, I'm going to read something from the past by Dr. Martin Luther King from jail. He's writing to clergymen and this is what he said. In any nonviolent campaign, there are four basic steps. One, collect the facts to determine whether injustices are alive. So, please release the footage. Two, negotiation. So many community members have been coming to you for so many months now. Three, self- purification. And four, direct action. We have gone through all of these steps in Birmingham, he's writing in 1963. Birmingham is probably the most thoroughly segregated city in the United States. Its ugly record of police brutality is known in every section of the country. Its unjust treatment of blacks in the courts is notorious reality. There have been more unsolved bombings of black homes and churches in Birmingham than any city in this nation. These are the hard, brutal, unbelievable facts. This is 1963. On the basis of these conditions, black leaders sought to negotiate with city fathers, but the political leaders consistently refused to engage in good faith negotiation. Then came the opportunity to talk with

some of the leaders of the economic community. In these negotiating sessions, promises were made by the merchants the promise to remove humiliating racial signs from the stores. And on the basis, the clergymen and the leaders of the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights agreed to call a moratorium on any type of demonstrations. But they were the victim of broken promises. The signs remained. We had no alternative except preparing for direct action whereby we would present our very bodies as a means of laying our case before the conscience of the local and national community. We are not unmindful of the difficulties involved. How do we go forward? We went through self- purification. We started having workshops on nonviolence and asking are you able to accept blows without retaliating? Are you able to endure orals of jail? And you might ask why direct action? Why seditins? Why marches? Isn't negotiation better? You're exactly right in your call for negotiation indeed is the purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action creates such a crisis and such a creative tension that a community that has constantly refused to to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. Dr. King says, 'I must make an honest confession. I am gravely disappointed with those more devoted to order than to justice. Who prefers a negative peace, which is the absence of tension, to a positive peace, which is the presence of justice. Who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal, but I can't agree with your methods." Who feels that they can set the timetable for another person's freedom. who lives by the myth of time and constantly advises the black person to wait until a more convenient season. Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

So again, these are words to maybe foster what we can do going forward together. Instead of always focusing on the negative, something's got to be done. Some kind of direct action to bring about the crisis that will bring about the change. So to move forward, let's listen to these words from the past. Thanks.

Thank you, Kath Edel. On April 25th, 2022, DeAnthony Van Anton was shot twice by ELPD. Immediately, the propaganda began. Allegedly, he was in violation of his parole and therefore his shooting was justified. Then Chief of Police Kim Johnson reached out to the East Lancing Independent Police Oversight Commission. Within days of the shooting, Chief Johnson produced video footage and later even more footage as requested by the the commission. While this is not in any way a perfect process, the attempt at transparency and institutional knowledge that video footage under the control of the department can be released to the public at any time has been known and restated by Ellie Pac to the current police chief and city manager on multiple occasions. Furthermore, the city of Grand Rapids has on multiple occasions, the first being the murder of Patrick Loya, released video footage within days for the city manager and chief to claim that this was not known to them as either a lie or incompetence or probably both. On April 15th of this year, I was in a meeting of the East Lancing Independent Police Oversight Commission when the chief and city manager abruptly and without explanation walked out. We were later told there was an officer involved shooting, police euphemism for we shot someone. When we were asked why the city manager and chief did not explain their exit, the city attorney said they did so on advice of councel. The cover up had already begun and Isaiah's body was still warm. Next, I texted my children to make sure they were safe as I already knew in my heart that the person or people who had been shot were black. Long before I joined Ellip, I had too many experiences with the LPD to know the history of violence against again euphemistically called response to resistance toward black people to not recognize the threat to my own children. At the same time, I knew immediately there would be another mother joining Nadia, Kelly, Dee, Deanony's mother, and many others in the process of grieving and trying to obtain

justice. All the while trying to prevent any other mothers from having to go through this trauma. Devastatingly, Karen Kirby now joins this group that none of us want to belong to. As I shared before, the history of this department is troubling, but has worsened since the chief's arrival. In my memory, ELPD tased a black high school student who was protecting a female friend. ELPD on two separate occasions smashed the faces of black men into the pavement, debriding the skin on their faces. One for videotaping his friend's arrest and the other for not using his turn signal. And while the officer involved was put on death duty for a while, the department attempted to honor him with an award until the public backlash was too great. An ELPD officer lied about a sexual assault that led to public defamation of an involved individual, a man of color. The LPD shot a black man at Meyer, smeared him publicly based on a probation violation for a minor issue, and the officers who fired eight times into a busy parking lot were lauded as they offered first aid after inflicting the wounds that nec necessit ne necessitated first aid. ELPD illegally searched and then forcibly transported a black man who was recovering from a seizure and who had declined transport to the hospital. ELPD tased and arrested a black man eating a breakfast sandwich at McDonald's because he could not or would not produce identification. ELPD threw threw a 15-year-old black child on the ground and handcuffed him as he awaited his ride and could not or would not provide identification. ELPD forcibly arrested a latinex non-bordinary person as they awaited their ride, which is allowable by law after being asked to leave an establishment. ELPD tased a black man as he stood with his hands in the air after discarding a knife he had been carrying and was then given six seconds to comply. Even though he was not showing any aggression towards ELPD, the public has no idea what he was asked to do as ELPD officers did not activate the audio on their body cameras. ELPD pepper- sprrayed and arrested two young black men and charged them with fighting with no evidence of a fight and then withheld evidence that there was not a fight and defamed them in the press release. An

officer who no longer works for ELPD violently shoved a black man who was videotaping during the same weekend without repercussion. ELPD bodys slammed and arrested a BIPO woman who raised her arm to point at another officer and was labeled verbally aggressive. In fact, in the same month, the LPD use of force report labeled 14 individually individuals as verbally aggressive to justify use of force on them. 12 were identified as black people and two as non-black people of color. This is a department bent on harming black people and other people of color. This is a chief who is over her head and unable to comprehend even the basics of running a police department, working with the community, and racism 101. When this chief, most likely at the encouragement of the mayor, brought her white supremacist fan club from Newman Lofts and downtown business owners to proclaim the downtown area war zone, followed by the chief publicly stating and reaffirming her claim that a disproportionate number of minorities were coming to East Lancing and committing crime to justify the disproportionate number of use of force incidences involving black and brown people. Isaiah's killing was predestined and not one of you is willing to speak up and prevent it from happening because white supremacy is a powerful drug and every one of you is an addict.

Isaiah's death had been foretold by so many of us as recently as April 14th when NAACP President James Mccurtis spoke to all of you and said, "If nothing changes, East Lancing will have another George Floyd moment. The blood is on your hands." Thank you for your comments. Carara Solano, please. Carara Solano.

Good evening. I came to speak to agenda item 6.2 to and really just to express my gratitude one more time to Stephen and his colleagues in public works for all the help that they did as my neighbors and myself worked to make our neighborhood a better place. So, thank you, Stephen. I really appreciate that work and I appreciate the council's attention to that matter. As I've stood here and I've listened though to my neighbors and other community members in East Lancing and I think to other meetings that I've been to, hearing about the matters before you dealing with the unhomed community, I can't help but wonder how you come to the decisions that you make or how matters come before you and you see them in a way that ultimately does not relieve the harm of a community in pain. I ask you to spend time reflecting on that

to think about those steps that you're taking and those assumptions that you may be running on that bring you to certain actions or inactions that do not relieve the harm. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh, Dana, Dana, please. Um, hi. Um, I'm going to begin today by reading um, a quote that I found. Power is not willingly relinquished. Oppression requires the silence of others and that true power lies with the people resisting, not the oppressors holding authority. It's very interesting looking at this uh updated resolution on procedures and rules that you want to remove us and you'll even go that far to remove us by a sergeant- of- arms. that sounds like a gun or a police officer and I'm assuming they get to pack or have their tasers or whatever it is that they get to all that they get to carry on themselves. Um, but you won't remove those of power that we've recognized are a problem for this community and we wouldn't expect you to make that decision to step down yourselves because again um you see power differently than how we see it. Um, I think there's uh going to be a request for public comment. Someone talked before about the length of public comment and how much it takes up space and um your timing is uh really interesting. Uh it it uh it's feels like discrimination now that the black and brown people are showing up suddenly. We want to have a resolution that reduces our public comment from 5 minutes to 3 minutes. And so I hope the data shows that there's been no other time and you've been with us a long time, Mark Meadows. There's been no other time that

community showed up this strong that council decided to diminish that. Not to mention that you're not responding to written comments. You won't hold a town hall. It's hard to gauge whether or not you're receptive to us and uh something's going to give. Something's got to give. So, you want to get us kicked out by a police officer because we clap. That will increase your use of force cuz that's use of force, right? Forcing me to leave the area because I clapped or or booed or said yay as you all have. And that'll bring me back to Mr. Rose. Remember the back and forth y'all too would have with Mr. Rose during public comment? Remember when you called him deplorable? my how you've grown

that now you want to silence us

and you want to make sure that you all have control. So my ask is that you please don't vote on these changes such as decreasing our public comment and not offering us any other space. And by the way, Ellie Pac saved our community when Mr. Dean Anthony was shot at Meyers because there was a place for people to let it out and have a back and forth. And also in our community, we not only have ALPAC, we have Lancing 360 and Chief Brown is consistently asked to show up. We meet for an hour all of community and she doesn't show to that space. So why is that? You know who does? City of V city of Lancing staff, the mayor, the Ingam County prosecutor, the chief, uh then some on their page. Why isn't she showing up in that space? There's use of force. There's gun issues in the city of East Lancing. So, that's another space that she could come to where us as a community can also be able to have a conversation like we do and we're able to pull off on a weekly basis. Um, I'm asking you to please vote no on uh having issues with audience clapping and otherwise showing approval or disapproval. I'm asking you to please vote no on taking us out by an armed a sergeant in arms or a police officer for clapping or cheering cuz we're the disruption. Why are we the suddenly disruption? We were the disruption before. Um, is this separate but equal? People were standing. People were standing because they showed up at 6:30 and there was a lot of people out there and staff still has space. I had to ask and someone did. Make space so folks can sit down on this side. Is this is that

separate but equal? Cuz because it's not. You have 30 seconds remaining.

Thank you. I have a foyer request. I am requesting the calendars of three council members. uh including you mayor and mayor prom because you're not meeting with us. You're not holding a town hall. You're not responding to us and so I want to see who you are meeting with or that you're just not meeting with anyone and then that is a serious problem. This is a foyer request asking for your calendar meetings which is public access. We get to see who you're sitting down with since it's not us. Max Millian. Last name starts with an M. Max Millian. Okay, those are all the slips that I have. Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to address the council? You can leave that up on the podium. Thank you. Hello, I'm Simon Pza, a resident and um also sit on the East Lancing Police Oversight Commission, but I'm here as a private resident. Um I grew up here in East Lancing. Um moved here from Detroit. I say I'm the Fresh Prince East Lancing and um went to really nice middle school. This was my middle school back in the day. Um went to East Lancing High School. Um took off like a lot of young people do. Went to the big cities. lived in Chicago, San Diego, LA, and then it was time to have kids and raise a family and s put down roots. And I said, "Well, that that boring place I grew up in actually is a really nice place to grow up." Um, and so decided to raise my kids here and brought them brought myself back. you know, I had I've been bragging about this community for decades um because I saw the opportunities that I had in this community um that I didn't have in my in my old community. Um

the we had five overlapping police departments that we had to deal with as young people um at that time. Um and East Lancing Police was number one on my list. They were the most professional. they showed the most restraint. Um, and there were times where, uh, I remember in the old university village, um, we were shooting a video and we had some toy guns that looked too real. Um, we're in high school, probably 10th grade. Uh, this is for a class, and of course, people are scared. Cops show up, guns drawn. We're so lucky that those cops were so professional. Um that they took the time to make sure that we were kids with toys and they made created a relationship, gave me the card and said, "Hey, if you want to shoot videos, it's fine, but give us a call. You know, we can we can help." Um this is a place where you can make mistakes and learn from it. You get to survive and learn from it. I was in the diversion program as a youth. Um, and I and these are the types of things that I go around bragging about East Lancing. Uh, I wish everybody had these things. I don't like the way that the city of East Lancing is talking about our kids. There's something that I'd ask you to really look at in terms of your communications and the statements that you guys are making. There seems to be a very clear um distinction about who belongs here. Even when college students that don't go to MSU, but they live here in Okamus,

they live here in East Lansing, they're the first thing that the city says is they're not MSU students. don't worry, they're not MSU students. As if they don't belong where they live. Um, and then when an MSU student is killed, it's never mentioned by the city that this is an MSU student. And so with racism, you can always figure out when when nothing makes sense like uh the one drop rule for of black blood in this country, the uh threshold of evidence that you must have to uh show your indigenity in this country. Those things are completely at odds. The only thing that makes them make sense is racism. The fact that you can take land and take people as property. Um, and that's kind of how I feel like I'm looking at the way that we're talking about our kids. Um, MSU students are our kids, right? That's why we're always like, they're not MSU students. Don't worry, parents, people. We hurt some kids. They were out of line, but they they weren't MSU students or at least eight out of 10 weren't. But you're not talking about the fact that these kids live here in East Lancing and Okamus, or they are MSU students. Um, and so the only thing that is consistent is that you you don't belong here if you're black or brown, even when you live here.

30 seconds remaining. And so it's a genuine request to look at the way you guys are talking about our kids. Please, these are our kids. We live here. This is where I grew up. Don't treat us like we don't belong here, please. Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to address the council? Please state your name for the record.

Nadia Sers. You know, it's been over 260 days since I've been able to get justice from this council from my son. I thought what happened to my son was horrific, but my son came home. Isaiah didn't get to have that opportunity. But you guys had an opportunity to make sure Isaiah did go home by taking what happened last year during welcome week more seriously than you have right now. Because when the leadership of a police department tell the police it's okay to kill black and brown people, to pepper spray them, to harm them, when they make comments to the press that minorities come to their own community to commit crimes, that's a setup for failure. Now you're making the public afraid of African-Americans. You're making the police put their hands on their gun even before an incident happens. Then you end up with a tragedy. What bothers me is that you people sit here like you have power over us, but you don't. You thought the incident that happened on the 24th of uh August last year would hurt my son. My son graduated with honors and I thank you for that. I don't know who you are or why you're elected to do the job that you're doing, but I think you might want to reassess the power you think you have over the people cuz you have none over us. You sit up here, you look at us, you look down, you don't make comments to some, you make comments to other. You devalue us as African-American people, which is a common trend happening in the White House right now where your ass is not in Washington. You're in East Lancing. in these lands and we do things differently because we're not going to take that. You created an HRC to investigate civil rights complaints, but

you never thought one would happen against your own body. So what you do, Carito, you sit there and you try to block the investigation of my son's complaint, but you can't block God's plans for my son. You can try to spend everything you want to sit up here and look at us like, "Oh my God, I can't wait for them to leave." Well, unfortunately for you, black people was brought here by you and we're here to stay. Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to uh I think Chris was up first. Then

I'm Chris Rude. I'm a resident here. I wanted to um speak to the same issue that Dana Watson uh was talking about, which is item 6.7 on your agenda about procedures for your meetings. Um, I spoke about this uh the first time this came up. I think tonight is the second time. And so I don't know, but I think that means you're likely to vote on it tonight. I hope that you won't because you can see that people have been consumed with other issues. And I think we're not really clear on what changes you're proposing. Um, but when I spoke the first time, it was explicit that one possibility uh that you were considering was that at the beginning of the meeting, people could make public comments about things on your agenda and but if they wanted to talk about things not on your agenda, they'd have to wait till the end. Of course, all almost all the comments tonight have been about a topic not on your agenda. So, this is a very real issue we're talking about. Um, now I can't really tell what you're planning to do, but I noticed that number eight that's crossed out says, "Every agenda shall provide a time for public comment on any agenda item or non-aggenda topic." And that is crossed out. So, there's something about that that is proposed to disappear. you know that that there won't be public comments at all at every meeting or that there could be on agenda items but not non-aggenda items. These things matter a whole lot to what we can can and can't communicate. And then um Dana quoted from this the section about if somebody violates the peace they can be thrown out by force. That is a serious threat of violence for free speech.

I think that will make things very much worse. Um, if we're trying to have a place where we can actually communicate with each other, but people who are on this side of the rope are being told if if they do something that breaches the peace, and it's not entirely clear what that means. um that they can literally be forcibly removed. Now, if somebody is using force is somebody's being violent, you know, starts to come here and then goes and attacks somebody in the audience or attacks somebody on council or attacks somebody on staff, then I think we have an issue that that needs to be addressed. But I sure have never seen that happen at city council. And I think creating a situation to address something that like that is really really going to harm relationships in the city.

Thank you. Is there anyone else?

Please please state your name.

Yeah, my name is Amanda Morgan. Um, I um came mostly to listen tonight because I actively I wanted to actively listen to everyone. Um, but I also want to respond to the changes to your that they're talking about um changing the time of public comment as well as changing when comment and who can comment. as well as um you're going to allow police officers to touch people if they somebody doesn't look at you right, doesn't speak right, doesn't um move right, um that is whiteness. And what you're saying is black people don't get uppety because we will arrest you. And that's exactly what you're saying. That's exactly what you're saying. You're not saying anything else. You're saying don't come here and talk about stuff. We're not even talking about ICE. Have you seen across the country where people get a motive and then the people come in and they break arms and they hurt people? We haven't even done that yet in East Lancing in Lancing. But here you are. You're trying to control the conversation. I'm a commissioner. I'm not here as a commissioner, but what you should know is um as a commissioner um when I first started, I took PTO every month so that I could be a commissioner for free. You get a little bit of money and you're in a political role. If you can't listen to public comment, you shouldn't be here. Part of your job is listening to public comment.

That's right.

Part of their job is looking at your whiteness and your male gazes and people. Yeah. Tokens can come through the door. But you must protect male whiteness, not protecting me because I'm speaking up and betraying my community. I hope for you as the mayor. I know you like trees, but it's pretty questionable whether you like black people. And you got a lot of work to do because you all are falling all over yourselves. Bureaucracy loves whiteness and whiteness loves to silence the conversation. Those two things are not separated. They're together. And by the way, if I ever somebody ever says I committed suicide, I did not. I just spoke the up. Excuse my language. I apologize. Apologize for the f-word. I'm concerned. I'm concerned because East Lancing has had two police shootings in their entire lifetime. As I understand, police have not shot people till now. And they were both black boys between the ages of uh 18 and let's say 22. We know that it's a little bit smaller than that. Black men, police officers, East Lancing police haven't shot anybody until Diddy Anthony. And then they haven't killed anybody until the gentleman I cannot talk about. So that's profound. And history is going to talk about all of this. And they're not going to see any of you as heroes. Especially you white. I'm sorry, but where do you speak up and confront these people? I know Dana does, but I've yet to see you do anything but sit there and be silent. You're unaccountable. Shame on you. You I've seen so many women like you who just get rise up and rise up and yet you don't do anything to make things better. You're just benefiting from the privilege. So may may what happens to

these boys happen to you. May your silence be the thing that happens to you when you need people to speak up. You too, sir. But mostly you gentlemen, you got to get over yourselves. If you're not here to listen to the citizens, you shouldn't be in that position. This isn't about your power. And people are coming for that because you've set yourself up to lose it. You have to participate in the group as a whole. Now, you can no longer be um the only thing that the US Constitution protects. white male property owners. Women got um constitutional rights to vote, but we don't have freedom. Only white men have liberty. Only black people only get freedom in the constitution. They don't have liberty. The only people in the United States Constitution who has liberty are you gentlemen. We had to get amended for the rest of us.

And now it's time to share. And if you can't see that vision, don't be here the next election. Especially you, sir. You got some learning to do. You have 30 seconds. If you're going to be a political party that just rises up, fine. We'll write you off now. But you got some learning to do. Thank you very much. Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak?

Please, please state your name for the record. My name is Dr. Maxine Henkins Kaine. I live in Lansancy, Michigan. I have no idea what I'm going to say, but I have to stand here and say something. One thing is I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I'm 80 years old and I am still fighting the system, still being disrespected. I'm sick and tired of it. I want to first of all say to the young lady right here whose husband was attacked. All of us feel your pain and we wish you and your children the best. That's the first thing.

I have four sons. How many of you had to tell your sons how to act when a police officer came and stopped? Did you have to tell your son to when a policeman comes? All right. Now, be respectful, make sure you hold your hands out up, don't reach too far to get your driver's license or too fast to get your driver's license. That's what black people have to do to protect our sons from those who should be protecting them. Now, this is my first time here at your meeting, and I hear that you want to limit the times, etc. Don't do that.

Don't even think about that because you're only going to have yourself in a bit more trouble. My question is, why is it that you do not want to release the full scale of the the videos? That's the question. Why, ma'am? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why do you not want to unveil the truth so it can be seen by everybody? What are you trying to hide the truth?

Why are you Why? What the truth? Please respect us as black people cuz we ain't going nowhere. And one thing I always say this, as long as there are races of people in the world, racism is going to exist. And there will be a time when none of us are here. We're all gone. When there will be no blacks and whites and all that, you'll be gone. People looking like you will be gone. and you going they going to all look like like like me brown. So get used to that

and accept it and before you leave I hope that you get the in the contact information of the president of the NASCAP because you need to listen to what we're saying. You need to listen to what you're saying. Listen not to respond, but listen to understand. That's all I'm going to say. But I'm going to end again like I began. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. This is my last thing I'm going to do. I want you to listen to this. I want all of us to feel this. Gunshots.

That's a murder.

Is there anyone else who would like to address the council? Please state your name for the record. My name is Jordan Evans. Uh I'm a Lancing resident. I just want to take first a full minute of just silence for Isaiah. I'm 35 years old. I've lived in the 517 area my whole life. Last time I was in this room, I was a a a community member for the Outback meetings. We used to ask for transparency. 10 years ago, I had a dig in my dresser for a shirt that's 10 years old. Black student, please don't shoot. For it to still be relevant 10 years ago.

To say I'm pissed is an understatement. I want to take my full five minutes because I hope it is inconvenient for y'all. I hope it does keep you up at night because as a black man, I am scared to death to come to East Lancing. I've been pulled over more times in this community than in Lancing. I hope it keeps you up because it's kept me up and wondering if my cousins are going to get home safe, if my grandmother is going to make it home safe, trying to come get some food to enjoy the gardens here. We've been asking for truth and transparency for years, for decades. We should not be leaving it to the public to figure out what's going on. I'm tired, y'all. I'm 35 trying to figure out how am I going to keep the fight up that I my elders I see showing up years and years of doing this No cop should be judge, jury, executioner. That's what I believe. I would assume that's why y'all are in the positions y'all are in because you do believe and have some I would hope some good intentions to take care of this community. I didn't write or prepare anything. I just know this is my community.

I want it so folks can come home safe even on their worst days. Especially on their worst days. And I've worked here long enough to know that uh young white men, especially on St. Patrick's Day, can walk around drunk with impunity. I don't think I've seen a white young man get shot on St. Patrick's Day. I actually hosted a workshop on St. Patrick's Day downtown and I had participants getting bodied by these young these young white men and no one was shot. It's unjust, y'all. I know you can do better. I know we can do better. I have 30 seconds remaining.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak?

Please state your name.

Kelsey Osborne Gar. Uh I'm a doctoral student here at Michigan State University. I live in Lancing, but I pay taxes in East Lancing. I wasn't planning on speaking tonight. I wrote something up really quickly because I didn't really see any MSU student representation up here, but I wanted to say that we are here and we're listening. We may go home for the summer, some of us, but our hearts are here. Do you know one of the first things I learned about East Lancing when I came here? You guys don't like us. You find us to be a nuisance. You find us to be a temporary inconvenience. You like our money, but you don't like us. We keep our we we pay your bills. We keep your businesses open. We're the reason your downtown doesn't look like Lancing's downtown. And I love Lancing, so that's not a shot to Lancing. But we pay your bills. We keep East Lancing thriving. We're part of this community. We deserve safety, dignity, and respect. We don't deserve to wonder if we're going to experience excessive force for being in the wrong place at the wrong time or for whatever reason. If East Lancing wants the benefits that come with being home to Michigan State University, then it also has to accept the responsibility of treating MSU students like valued members of your community. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to address the council? Uh, could you hang on a second? Dr. June was up first and then we'll Lee, did you want to speak? Lee June, resident of East Lancing for the last what, 26 years, I guess. Um, could you raise the mic a little bit just

Yeah, thank you. I I guess all I want to say is you're in power and we recognize that. I mean, I know most of you. I know your husband, I think, and you know, as a student, he was a justice fighter and I guess he still is. We met you at a reception across the street from our house. We were colleagues as professors at Michigan State. I've known you over the years. And uh you know I've been in so-called administration for a number of years and when I went I wasn't naive but behind closed doors I used to say to the president of Michigan State Provost I said why if you think about things usually the demands that people make are realistic and they're justified. And why is it that power seem to always make us force you to do things? My guess is in the end the police chief is going to be fired. Eventually the full report is going to be released and a lot of other things we're asking for. You're going to end up doing it because we are demanding it. And I used to say to power truck, why do you put us through all of those hoops? And I used to play games mentally, but I knew better. And I knew what Dr. King said, and I knew what Frederick Douglas said. But I'm still hoping that someday we would prove them wrong. Frederick Douglas said, "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never has and it never will." And King came along and said, "Freedom is never voluntarily given by the

oppressor. It must be demanded by the oppressed." And so I'm just appealing to you is why don't you all make King and Frederick Douglas wrong and just do the right thing. Well, it's too late to do that because but you should do that. And I guess I would urge people and I've done that in the past in power to really begin to listen as was said listen not to respond but to understand and the reason people come here and I come week after week is because we love the community and we want to see it improve. So my challenge to you even though you all later violated his policy when you go behind the closed doors let's make King and Faggler Douglas wrong and you concede to us what we asking before we have to quote escalate and the last point I mean she made the the four steps that Dr. King had and that's what people are basically going through. And if you don't respond because we're trying to negotiate, you know, we're doing other kinds of things. All that's going to happen is this is going to escalate and let's cut it out and do the right thing. I know you can do it. And I'm going to trust you

that you won't that you will that you will. We'll see. Thank you.

Thank you. Please do please state your name. Uh my name is Antonio Gomez. I don't particularly find myself good at public speaking sometimes. So, um I'm pretty upset like the rest of the public here today, it would appear. Um, I find it funny that you're only really giving the people something after a closed session to release video footage after a press conference had to be held across town earlier today. Um, we moved to this community in 2016. I have an interesting background with police. Coming from Ann Arbor, I've been almost shot by police three times. one when I was 12 with a stick using it as a walking stick having a police officer cruiser hop the curb and get out guns drawn on a nerdy little kid who's just walking with a stick is a disturbing thing that I have to remind my children to be careful at any given point that you could just be using walking stick and you get gunned down in a park. I had been out here for work several times prior to moving here and I had had better interactions with the police during those times. So, I felt comfortable well more moving here versus Ann Arbor with my negative altercations with the police. Um, and I just don't see that being the case. I moved here for It seems we're going down the wrong path. And unfortunately, I don't think any of you are qualified to be sitting where you are today.

Unfortunately, Mr. Mark Meadows, I've seen you lie to the public on stage at least once. I've been an observer of most been here a lot. Um, you've made questionable remarks towards ethnicities on more than one occasion. You, I was hoping would do more considering your husband seems to have a very good background in politics. And you, Mr. Chuck, have watched as you've sat by and just mainly been silent. And to me, there's a special place in hell for people who don't support their own ethnicities in times of need. I think you should all get the out of here. To be honest, you don't deserve to be sitting here. You don't seem to be supporting the people in their time of need or what they're asking you for. And everything you do seems like a power grab or sitting silent and doing nothing as they try to strip away the diversity, equity, and inclusion powers, take it away from the police oversight committee. You are attacking the people's power on all fronts and I don't like it.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak? Please state your name.

Hi, I'm Susan CR. I'm a resident of Lancing, but I am a faculty member at Michigan State University. I was not planning on speaking here tonight. I came here to listen. I came here to listen and keep my mouth shut until I had something to say and it's not prepared. But I teach in a scientific discipline and most of the people in my department look like me. Most of the students in my department look like me. We've known in my discipline for a long time that this been a problem. I've been making efforts, colleagues have been making efforts, mostly some of us more than others to try to make it feel like it's a place where other people belong. And I know that that's never going to change until someone that doesn't look like me has my job. And I can't get we can't get we can't get to that point until we can educate someone that doesn't look like me to get and take my job. and that people will actually interview them and they'll get my job. The zoolology department was right down the hall from where I work. And all I could think and I was at commencement and I was watching our students walk across the stage and all I could think was here was another scientific discipline where somebody who didn't look like me had a chance to take my job and be the person to inspire someone else to go on and do these things and see themselves in those positions so that I don't have to be the on to try to encourage people that they belong. I just

Why can't we make that happen? That's all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak to the council? Okay, seeing Okay, please state your name.

Yes. Uh, good evening. Uh, my name is Julian Sanders. I am a JD MBA student at Michigan State. Um, I do have remarks prepared. I attended uh the press conference earlier this afternoon at Union Missionary Baptist Church. Um, and after attending that conference, uh, I prepared some remarks. Um, Isaiah Kirby is not just a headline. He is not just a case number. He is not just another name added to a painful list that this city and this country too often forgets once the cameras leave. Isaiah Kirby was a 21year-old young man. From what I learned today, he was intelligent. He was ambitious. He was preparing to graduate. He had dreams. He mattered. And tonight, many of us are asking ourselves a painful question. How many more? How many more young black and brown men with bright futures must lose their lives before this city and this nation finally decides that our humanity deserves protection, too. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. once dreamed of a nation where people would be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. Yet here we are in 2026 still gathering in churches, in chambers, still gathering in mourning, pleading for transparency, accountability, and pleading for justice. Our ancestors marched, bled, fought so that we could live safely, freely, and fully human in this country. And yet,

black and brown families are still forced to bury people that they love. And as a student at Michigan State University, I am disturbed. I am deeply disturbed because East Lancing is supposed to be a place of learning, a place of opportunity, a place where students from all backgrounds come to build their futures. We market the university as a college town, as a community where people want to come to. But what does a reputation like that mean if students don't feel safe? What does prestige mean for Michigan State University if black and brown students like myself continue to fear becoming the next headline? So, we're not asking here for special treatment. We are asking for humanity. We are asking for truth. We are asking for transparency and accountability. This moment demands moral courage from each and every one of you sitting here. I appreciate your time but your time is not enough. Your effort is, your courage is, your respect for the families are what matter and you doing something, providing the necessary transparency and accountability is what matters. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to address the council? Okay, seeing none, are there any callers? There are four callers on the line. Caller with the last name Ericson, you are now free to address the council.

Hello. Hello. You are now free to address the council.

Primarily about releasing the unedited footage regarding the incident with Isaiah Kirby. Um the community continues to come to you requesting transparency on a number of things. whether it's how are we arriving to decisions about unhoused people in our community and now how is our police engaging with our community and I think Taz Mika made a wonderful point at the very top of this in that none of us would be here if the footage had been simply released. Um, finally, and I don't want to take up too much time, but as far as limiting the amount of time people have for public comment, and they can comment on, if the goal is to reduce the amount of people who engage with this process, that won't necessarily be the outcome. Even in communities where you only have three minutes to speak, they still deal with long public comment periods because people are engaged with their community and they want to have an impact and they want to see things um function the way that work for them. And so if the goal is to do that, I think it it really is the wrong move. And so you could consider maybe engaging more thoughtfully with your community when they come and speak with you such as and I thought Dana Watson's mention of a town hall would be a great way to engage with the community in a slightly relaxed setting in which you could have a real back and forth and and hear what they have to say and explain yourselves so that we could have some sort of understanding about how the process has even happened in East Lancing. Um, thank you.

Thank you. U, next caller, please.

Caller with the last name Moody, you are now free to address the council. Caller with the last name Moody, you are now free to address the council. Caller with the last name Wolfart, you are now free to address the council. Caller with the last name Wolfart, you are now free to address the council. Caller with your phone number ending in 954, you are now free to address the council.

Can you hear me? Yes.

Did that work? Yes.

Okay. The maybe after my comment, try the other callers again because it keeps going back and forth between you're muted and you're unmuted. So, it's really hard to um do it. Okay. Um my name's Nicole Kiwa Viber. Uh really appreciate everyone who's spoken tonight. Um, I'm glad the previous caller brought up Dana's um comments because I really look forward to the foyer to see who you have been taking meetings with. Um, I started today, um, actually this morning going to the Michigan Economic Development Corporation because they were considering giving a bunch of our taxpayer money, uh, weapons manufacturers um, associated with the genocide of Palestinians. We got a minute and 30 to speak to that. Um, I'm not there tonight in person because I was working on another group of grassroots citizens who are very concerned about the fact that um, corporate interests have a say over the health of our water even though people time and time again say this is what's important to us. And now here we are to round out the night. We have person after person telling you that this is a travesty. And I'm not even talking about just releasing the footage at this point. You need to get rid of that police chief. You just do the I'd say the city manager not very good. Not really working out. said something about having to the balancing act, but truthtelling versus what? Running cover for a racist organization

that's wrapped with lethal weapons shouldn't be a a balancing act to protect people. I'm heartbroken. that young man, the life he was making for himself. I dream of that from our young people to care about the natural world to devote the light your life and your intelligence and your heart to those without voices. Sounds to me like he's probably having a mental break if what happened shows is what happened. And how terrible that a child would know someone's coming at you and seems dangerous, you can shoot in the leg. How many times are my good are we gonna have to think that awful obvious point? Why are you shooting to kill? You have a police chief on your hands that has done nothing to make sure that those officers are not using excessive force on black and brown people. Isn't that shameful to you that person after person still has to point this out? Do something. Get rid of the ones who obviously cannot do their simple basic job of protecting and serving the public. It shouldn't be that hard. Stop focusing on your PR because I've had it up to here with that marketing reflex being all that we get from our

so-called leadership. It's about doing the task at hand which is serving what our interests are and we we are plainly telling you is the expectation. That's awesome. Thank you. Next caller, please.

There are no callers remaining on the line. Okay, that brings us to uh communications from the mayor and council members. Uh council member Singh,

thank you. Um this evening I want to echo the calls for openness, transparency, and leadership. On April 15th, our community experienced a horrific event. One that left one of our residents in the ICU for several days and another community member dead. While Michigan State Police complete their investigation, it is important to remember facts have not been fully established. And as I mentioned in our last meeting, I am anxiously awaiting the MSP report. In this room this evening, I've heard uh really we all are searching for the similar outcomes, transparency, truth, accountability. Along those lines, I have I've said this directly to our city manager, mayor, attorneys that I have found the video footage timeline uh for the release unacceptable. It is my expectation that the city based on their statement that they issued earlier today will release the video footage in an expeditious manner so those involved and the public can have access to it. That is all.

Thank you, Mayor Prom.

Uh thank you. Um, I just want to start off by sending my condolences to the families of this incident and um just speak to the violence and how much it has affected our community. Um, and it has affected me uh personally as well. Um and uh the criticism in regards to video footage and the timelines um and not having that out is warranted and um I take some responsibility for that. Um, and I think that for someone that is in my position, um, I think that you deserve to be able to have at least that, um, out to the community as far as the sake of transparency. And um so I think that's warranted, but I also want to really talk about due process and really understanding as council member Singh talked about that um the facts are not all out there. Um and we have a due process. We have an independent investigation currently happening so we can have everything in front of us to be able to do something about going forward. Um so this does not happen again.

I I've heard a lot about since I've been here literally just December when I got elected and I've had a chance to listen to quite a few comments from the audience and about Chuck Griggsby and who Chuck Griggsby is and what Chuck Griggsby isn't and all these different things that um to be quite honest with you the criticism. Um, that's that's not really the big deal to me. The big deal to me is that it hasn't went further. I have said many occasions, many a times that I'm available and to reach out to me anytime. I guarantee you everyone that's called me, everyone that's requested to meet with me, everyone that's wanted to understand uh what's going on in regards to what I am doing. um that's still there and always will be. I take this opportunity that I'm in um very very seriously and um it's unfortunate that some of that from some of you it's only went to questioning my identity, question my blackness, questioning um just things that I I just they're really it's really odd to me. If you're really in a situation, if you're not connected to the issues themselves, and you're really about change, you're really about moving forward, you're really about these issues, then I expect better of

you in a situation where you expect better of me to have a conversation. Now, your responsibility to picking up the line and calling me, you don't have to do that. Um, but until um you come up and talk, I don't really understand and have an opportunity to really work with you. I don't have an opportunity to be able to do what um you think I should be doing. If you think that I'm not doing a good job, you think I'm not paying attention, call me up. Let's talk about it. There's not one person that I can think of that's called me up and asked to meet with me to talk to me about what's important to them. It's easy to sit back and forget that we're human beings. I was in a meeting the other day and as simple as it sounds, you know, there's a big difference between hearing someone and listening to someone. And I'm doing my best to listen to what I'm hearing, doing my best to do what's right. I moved to this city in 2018 with my family. We've been coming to East Lancing back and forth for over 30 years before that. My wife is originally from here. So, we knew about Insansing and we finally thought, you know what? Let's move to East Lancing to a smaller town from where we were because of the values that we saw in this city. I got here, fell in love immediately with the city, immediately with the atmosphere and the people and the way that my mixed family was embraced. After a little while after I got here, I started to learn a little bit about the

historical context of East Lancing and some of the issues that East Lancing traditionally had had. And I made a decision to get involved with the city. I made a decision to do the work. I made a decision to be uncomfortable and put myself in a situation to do good. Now, I can go on and on about all the things I've done in this city for the issues that a lot of you have platforms that I've been a part of making stronger platforms that you have to be able to exercise your advocacy for the issues that are important. I can go on and on and on, but what's most important is about where I'm at today and where I would like to see us go going forward together. I challenge you if you are looking at me and you're talking to me about what I'm not doing or what I don't care about or what you think I don't care about, I would challenge you to call me up and we can talk about so you can be very clear if you walk away from that conversation, that meeting um or that opportunity to have that conversation with me to know that that's the truth. Again, the criticism, the doing better, the transparency. Oh, there's work. There's got to be done. But if you're going to sit there and not work with me, then you're going to have to be a lot more patient because it's a lot harder without you. It's a lot harder without you, but I'm doing it regardless. And I

have listened to you tonight. I've listened to you as best I can, in the best ability I can in regards to what's important to you. I'm not a robot. I'm a human being. I have feelings. I have emotions. I have I have things that keep me up at night. I have a life. But I also chose to be here. I chose and had opportunity to serve for the city of East Lancing and I'm not here for any other reason than that. So again, all my numbers and information is public. All of it and we can start from there. If that's not something that you want to do, you can write me, you can send me an email. I I try to respond to every single email I get. So again, when it comes to the issues of tonight and what most people spoke for, there is a tremendous amount of work that needs to be done. I've been working on these issues ever since I got here and I took a break. I came back here. I got elected and here I am ready to go forward. I just got here and we got some immediate things that need to be taken care of like yesterday. But again, if you're not going to do with me, it's going to be a lot harder to do without you and it's going to take a lot longer to do it. So, I implore you to take this next step further in regards to your advocacy. Get away from the person and let's get back to the issues. Thank you.

Thank you, Council Member Meadows.

I do have a few comments. The uh you know, one of the one of the uh persons who uh spoke at the podium tonight said um you know, none of us would be here if the footage had been released. And I really don't agree with that. I think that um we did release the footage almost immediately uh regarding the the shooting at uh the Meyer store. And um like almost any observe, we all have a different observation as to what may have happened or occurred during that. So, I believe that we would all be here if we had released it and that we should have released it immediately. U my belief is and has long been that um when you have evidence, you release the evidence so that the public can digest it and that we can digest it because simply stated, we haven't seen this either. um you know I have seen the edited version that was showed to the family that's it and at that point in time I and um council members thing said we need to see the whole thing. So I think the idea that the council has not pressured uh to release this information because that's what it is information to the general public uh is a wrong um conclusion for anybody. My heart goes out to the victim of the stabbing and I'm glad that Doug is recovering from the stab wounds. And my heart goes out to the family of

Isaiah Kirby. No parent I have four kids. No parent wants to outlive a child. And there's another thing about this that that was not discussed by anybody tonight. What happened? What happened to this brilliant young man about to graduate from university who first robs uh a pizza store allegedly.

Yeah. Okay. Well, I'll say alleged allegedly also, but reportedly, let's say, robs a pizza store, stabs an individual he's never met before, and runs down Abbott. What happened? Is there this mental health crisis that occurred with regard to him? We need to find out what happened with regard to that, too. I don't know if anything that we have a video of is going to reveal any of the information that is critical to us to really evaluate that evening and what happened because that is also that is also

that issue responsible public comment is closed. Good afternoon. Public comment is closed. Public comment is closed. It's our time to speak now. Use the right language. Sir, you're I am using the right language. You don't use

the the the explanation of what happened that night is critical to anybody's evaluation. That doesn't take away the tragedy, but there is something that changed because that was not the young man that we have heard so much about whose success was so clear and whose movement towards graduation from university seemed to be eminent. No history has been indicated of any problem. So, I think there are a number of unexplained act actions that evening that we need to find out about it. I don't know if the video I don't think the video is going to answer that. I don't know if the state police report is going to answer that because I, you know, we haven't seen that either. We want to see it just as desperately as the public wants to see it. So, I have a number of questions that I have with regard to this that have come that I wrote down as a result of the comments that were made this evening. I want to know whether the autopsy report is available because that's one of the items that has to be also shared with the public. I don't know if legally that can be done, but I think it's critical information that we have to find out. Everybody mentioned the 17 bullet wounds. I really don't have any information to either say that's accurate or inaccurate and I don't know that we have at this point in time any way to evaluate whether that has happened. I know the family observed the body and they have I think un they they are the source of that 17 bullet wounds and we need to find out. I think the

autopsy report should show that we have uh an argument that he was shot in the back and I need to know that that is a critical element of the discovery that will take place in this case. Um I do want to mention um that um somebody mentioned that you know DEI was under fire in the city of East Lancing as I mentioned at the last meeting. No discussion of any kind whatsoever has taken place with regard to stepping back from DEI. We believe that it belongs here as a department and that it's uh the director has not been removed from that department and we're not stepping back on being a sanctuary city either. So um I'm not sure where that's coming from. Um probably the movement uh from uh the liaison position has prompted speculation that we would be eliminating DEI. It's not happening. That has been a policy of the city even before we had a DEI department. So So I apologize if it offended anybody that I didn't use the word alleged. I'm relying only on the newspaper reports and the other reports that we've received because frankly we don't have the information that you have been asking for either and we want to have it as soon as possible. I know we're talking about Friday at the latest. I hope it's Thursday. I hope it's tomorrow. We need that information in the public as soon as possible. Council member Whounc

very very very difficult times. So first of all the video there is from what I understand there is an investigation from the state police because East Lancing should not be investigating their own situation. So, from what I understood, the Michigan State Police said to not release information beyond what they were planning on doing last week. Because there needs to be an appropriate investigation, the Michigan State Police told the city to only release up until a certain point. So from what I understand, there was this video that was to that point. That is typically what is released before there is a full investigation because there's a lot of things that need to be investigated about this whole situation. There's other video, there's witness statements, there is many, many things that go into investigation. It is not just body warn camera. So from what I understand, the city was told to not release beyond a certain point based on the integrity of a full investigation. that information changed. I think it was Thursday of last week from a directive from the Michigan State Police actually changed their course at that point. Now the city has had to pivot. So even if we all would demand

certain things be released, the investigation is really really important to make sure that everyone gets to the very bottom of the situation. So now that the state police has said it needs to be released, that's what the city will do. I will say that we have to be very we one that once that goes out that goes out. I am a little concerned with some young eyes seeing that. It is um I'm sure a very violent situation. I'm concerned about what some people may use that with and uh protect Mr. Kirby's dignity. Secondly, the truth. The bottom my whole desire and I can't speak for counsel is the truth comes out. The truth comes out in every step of this investigation, including autopsy, including video, including other people's video statements. An investigation is a very complex situation. Investigations don't finish in four weeks. They take a long time. Want to make sure the truth comes out. Also, the totality of the circumstances. Again, the video is just one small piece. You also have to hear what the video doesn't show exactly what a police officer sees. The video doesn't show exactly what a victim sees. shows portions of it. Totality of circumstance is very important. Due process is extremely important for each party in

the situation. We all deserve due process. Mr. Milac deserves due process. He deserves to have as much animinity or as much public information that he chooses because in order to go from being a victim to a survivor, a a victim is continuing to be repressed by what's happened to them. A survivor goes through the process, takes control of that as much as they can, and then goes on from there so that they don't have to walk out of a barber shop and be terrified. Or to get in your car and be terrified that someone's going to come upon him. I don't think this man will ever or his kids will ever walk the streets exactly the same way as they did that day. We all deserve due process. I think what Mr. Meadows stated about what happened to this young man before this, there's something there. I'm very confused by that what happened. The other thing is to have a rush to judgment on any side. We have to be very patient and and very careful about making sure all the information comes together. And lastly, humanness. I think we have to not forget each one of our humanness. Each one of us have passions. Each one of us have concerns. Each one of us are affected by things differently. But we're all human in the morning and we're all human at night.

I think if we would have asked any one of these subjects that are involved in this situation between Mr. Mock, Mr. Kirby, any of the police officers involved, anyone else that's connected at all, they would asked how their day is going to end that day. No one can predict this kind of tragedy. is to remember that we're human. I'm not saying for myself, I have been in the um public realm for 26 years, but I think we also have to remember our humanness when we're talking about other people and talking about their families and their situation. Just because someone is sitting in a certain place in this room doesn't mean we all don't have compassion for those we love. love for the city as a whole and our fellow man. If we don't have that, we don't have anything. So, let's be careful not to judge each other, but just to be careful. I need to be careful. Each one of us need to be careful. So, Chuck said, I'm sorry, Council Member Griggsby said, "I chose to be here." We did choose, each one of us chose to be in this room tonight. You chose to come in to make um statements. I'm not sure how many of the staff would like to have come in tonight, but they've come in tonight to be a part of the community. They've invested their lives here. Thank you very much for being here. Each one of this table have all chosen to be here tonight, and I do think we can continue to strive. I chose to run for city council because I love this town. And this is an amazing community and I

think it will. Our brighter days are still ahead of us. That's why I ran for city council and that's why I want to sit here today. Alls we can choose for is today. We can't choose the future. That's all I have. Thank you very much, mayor. Thank you. That brings us to the city attorney's report. Mr. Jopic. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. No report this evening. And that brings us to the consent agenda. Mr. Bellman.

Yes. Tonight's consent agenda 4.1 is approve the following appointments or reappointments to boards or commissions. Lorna Greening to the planning commission for a partial term ending December 31st, 2027. 4.2 2 is approve a contract with Able Concrete for the FY2026 hazardous sidewalk project in an amount of 400,000 which includes a 15% contingency and authorize the city manager to sign 4.3 is approve a contract with KLMcape and Snow LLC for the 2026 street tree planting contract. contract in an amount not to exceed 100,000 and authorize the city manager to sign 4.4. approve a contract with Kone for elevator maintenance service for the seven downtown parking system elevators for a term of five years with an annual a annual authorized amount of $25,896 and authorized city manager to sign. 4.5 is approve a letter of agreement between the city of East Lancing and the Michigan Association of Public Employees and authorized city manager to sign. 4.6 is approve a service agreement with my green Michigan for organics/foodwaste composting services. 4.7 is to receive the 2025 annual report of the city of East Lancing's board of review and 4.8 is received the city of East Lancing financial health review committee's interim reports.

Would any council member like an item removed from the consent agenda? Is there a motion to approve uh Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented? Moved by Griggsby. Second. Second by Whan. Any discussion of the consent agenda? I just have one. Yes, please. I on the financial health report um or review committee. I just cons I this may be a question for the city manager or Mr. Meadows. Are we when are we expected to see a report and is it before we adopt the budget? No, I think the final report will come in June.

So, it'll be after you adopt it. But as we've mentioned previously, the budget can be amended to incorporate any recommendations that may be brought forward by the financial health review committee.

All right. I just I I want to make the point that when we initially talked about um establishing a financial health review committee, I believe it was a year ago, February, and we delayed. We put a ballot on the uh parks and wreck millillage. It failed. Um we have a number of challenges. Maybe not for this coming year's budget, but there is a cliff coming with the income tax. Um so I just want to put out I am disappointed that I'm voting on another budget without a full report from the financial health uh committee. as I said a year ago, February, I believe, when we first talked about establishing and appointing a financial health committee. So, I just want to say that for record's sake, um, as the committee continues to work and uh, progress is made towards, you know, future recommendations for uh, the financial health of the city.

Any additional discussion of the consent agenda? Okay. Um, so the motion is on the consent agenda as presented. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed?

Motion carries. The consent agenda is approved. That brings us to the first of two public hearings. Uh, item 5.1 is a public hearing to consider the preliminary fiscal 27 budget and property tax rate. I'll invite our chief financial officer to the table. Good evening. Audrey Concincaid, CFO. Um, do you want me to discuss before we open the public hearing? Yes. Okay, please.

Um, so attached to the agenda item tonight, I have a draft of the budget resolution um that will be coming to council for approval on May 26. This um resolution draft includes the discuss discussed changes from the last two meetings or budget work sessions. Um so this is a little different from some prior uh draft resolutions in that we've amended probably most of the funds because we're incorporating the two health insurance changes across all funds. So typically our uh preliminary budget document mirrors the resolution for most if not all funds except for the general fund. In this instance, because we made those changes across the board, the preliminary budget document is going to look different than the budget resolution pretty much for all funds. Then uh so those two health insurance items again were uh making sure that we for vacant positions we modified our budget estimate for um from our family amount to our double amount and then also incorporated the employee contribution that will be in effect July 1 reducing the employer contribution. Then the remaining changes to the general fund and then as a result to the parks and recreation fund were um discussed at last budget work session. And so those included removing sidewalks. Um a portion of the hazardous sidewalk project was the largest amount and then reducing the parks and wreck transfer. Um and so then those changes also trickled into the parks and wreck fund and they modified several things. Um they modified expenses, revenues, and they adjusted some fees at the same time. So, attached to the draft resolution at the very end is a recommended fee schedule. And those mirror what was in that comparative 5-year comparative other than the changes recommended by parks and recreation. And we specifically left those highlighted for you so you could

you could see which specific fees were adjusted to accommodate some of those changes um for that reduced transfer to parks and wreck. Questions for staff? Uh, one question. Actually, I thought maybe the city manager had this act. Uh, but I understand that we also increased at least slightly the budget for Alipac uh, as a result of finding out that um, some money that was excluded because it wasn't spent was actually spent. Is that accurate? That is not currently included in that draft. Is that a change that needs to be made? I can certainly make that before. Okay. I was not aware of that. No.

Thank you. I think the city manager is aware of it. Okay. Further questions. Do we know if the city manager will be returning? Did uh did he leave a note or anything? Okay. All right. Um check the t the chair. See if there's a note on there. So yeah, Mr. Well, every time we talk about the income tax, I'm sorry, we every time we talked about the property tax, which isn't necessarily, it's mentioned here. Can you remind the public how much of our property tax actually goes to the city? About the percentage third. Okay. 30%.

33 I would say. Yeah. Thank you.

So, I just had a couple comments. Uh, one is I want to thank uh, the director of parks and wreck um, director Dranki for very fast and very thorough work um, detailing the changes in response to them. So, thank you and it was really impressive sort of how broad ranging the actions you took were to absorb those um, reductions and also um, I think how effective that process was. I wanted to thank uh everyone from staff who works on the question answers. That's a lot of work that goes into that. But I think it's worthwhile and I don't think I'm saying that just cuz I asked a lot of the questions. I think that other people may have some of those questions also. And it I think it's a great record and I appreciate the previous rounds of that also. And again, I know it's a lot of work, but I think it's I think it's worthwhile. Um, I'm glad we're talking about uh the relatively small amount of our property tax bill that goes to the city. Um, about an equivalent amount goes to the county, right? Uh, but it's the city that collects it, so we get sort of tagged with it. I want to give a sort of my very brief synopsis of some of the changes that went into this round of the budget compared to the previous round. I just want to give a couple of examples of some of the major changes. Some fees are going to go up for certain programs. Some uh for example, the uh uh aquatic center I think is one of them. Um before and after school care is another one. Uh some infrastructure isn't going to

get worked on. Okay. We're taking $250,000 away from sidewalks. Some assumptions change, right? So, we were we had assumed that we were going to spend half a million dollars on election equipment that the state descertifies every few years, but now we're going to assume that the state's actually going to fund that mandate. I hope that's an accurate assumption but if it's not an accurate assumption then we will have to ease into fund balance to pay for that uh that difference and then the last thing is the vacancy factor which acknowledges that we have a lot of positions open that are not going to be filled on July 1 and then remain filled for the full year is I believe one way to understand the vacancy factor and that's important to budget in however uh I want to point out that with a number with a relatively large number of uh police positions that are currently unfilled. We hope that that vacancy factor is going to get smaller and so that in future years we won't be able to rely on that as a way to avoid eating into our fund balance. So there's a a set of different things that went into getting us from a a reduction of 2.3 million of our fund balance to what is now about $30,000. And people work really hard on this. Um, but some of it reflects what happens if we don't have enough money, which is fees go up, infrastructure doesn't get worked on. Um, and we have to try to cover some of our shortfall with vacancies. So, those are the costs of uh what happens when revenues fall short of expenditures. Question for the city manager. Is there anything you wanted to add concerning the budget?

No, I understand there were some questions about some items that were removed in the preliminary budget and I'm happy to answer those if those questions

No, it was really just a short question about ELIOX. Uh apparently when we re reduced the amount uh that had been unspent uh the previous year we found that there was some portion of that that was spent that was going to be restored to their budget. Is that correct? So I don't there was some amounts that um I had recommended be reduced that were under contract and so yes my representation that they had not been spent was not accurate. That has not yet been added back. That's going to be at the direction of this body. Okay. Thank you.

You're welcome.

Any further questions for staff or the city manager? All right. So this is a public hearing. Um let me therefore open a public hearing to consider the preliminary fiscal year 2027 budget and property tax rate. Is there anyone in the audience who would like to address the council concerning this issue? Uh I'll take 45 seconds I hope. I'm Chris Root. I'm a member of the um oversight commission. Um the amount we're talking about is $6,000 for a contract for data analysis of uh quantitative information about use of force during 2025. Uh the city manager has just said it will be up to you to decide whether to add that back into the budget. We did receive such a report uh last year. I think it's incredibly important for the year 2024. I think it's incredibly important that we not stop doing this uh gathering and sharing of information for the community. Um so I hope that you will add the 6,000 back in. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to address the council concerning this issue? Okay, seeing none, I'm going to clo close the public hearing. And uh there is no action on this tonight I believe because our decision will be two weeks from now. Um and so at this point uh we will move on to item 5.2 2, which is a public hearing to consider the city of East Lancing's community development block grant 2026 to 2030 consolidated plan and PY 2026 FY2027 annual action plan.

Yes. So, uh, HUD refers to it as program year and then they refer to it as what the beginning of the year was, not the end, just to make things confusing for us. Welcome, uh, Mr. Apostle and Mr. Prefontaine. So, please.

So, hello. I'm Nicholas Prefontaine, community economic development specialists here at the city, um, with Matt Apostle. Um, and so we're just going to go over um, first what the community development block grant is. Um, because I know last time we came and talked about it at the budget workshop um, and we didn't really get too deep into what CDG was. So I just wanted a brief overview of that. Um, so it's a federal um, grant program that's administered by the US Department of Housing and Urban Development. Um and they allocate um every year to uh communities all across the United States um that to help uh with low to moderate income residents um and uh just activities like public services, infrastructure um and uh accessibility projects um and things and housing. Um so we uh get a allocation uh this year was 39395 or 907 but we for finance um we lower it to the to the nearest five. Um and these uh support a variety of public service programs, public facility and infrastructure improvements and program administration um throughout the community. Um and so we base our budget off the past year. So we didn't get the allocation till after we recommended the budget and then so we allocated all the allocations went down um uh equally. Um so the uh the proposed budget continues to prioritize programs and projects that address community needs including housing stabil stab uh excuse me stability um accessibility improvements, homeless assistance, youth services and neighborhood infrastructure. Um, so if we could pull up the slides. I'm not sure if they

Well, now might be as good a time as any to bring up the fact that uh we're currently in the last year of a 5-year consolidated planning process for CDBG. Uh so with that in mind, this public hearing is not only about the fiscal year 2027 CDBG budget, but it's also about the next five-year plan we would have, which if you can believe it is 2026 to 2030 CDBG consolidated plan. Uh so in addition to the budget that is before you that would be up for consideration at the same time as the budget at our next regular council meeting. Uh we will also be considering the CDBG 5-year consolidated plan. Um as part of that in the presentation there are lists of priority needs that are prioritized uh as part of that consolidated planning process uh of which there's no uh there's no big surprises. It's a lot of the same uh great work that CDBG has been used for for the past several years in East Lancing. Affordable housing, public infrastructure, uh assisting uh agencies that are working to uh prevent and assist individuals experiencing homelessness, uh public service activities and program administration. Uh so, and then we of course did a a relatively robust public participation process for that consolidated plan. We had uh three community workshops as well as a focus group uh specifically on campus to try to target MSU students and community uh partners. Um and yeah, happy to answer any questions you have on the consolidated planning process.

Questions for staff on the planning process?

Mr. Griggsby, you look like you're considering a question. Well, I could you turn on your mic? So can you tell me about the actual process? So I heard you say what you just said, but when we talk about the consolidated plan for 26 through 30, what are you saying the next step is for that? What what what is happening with that?

Yes. So current so we worked with a consultant Wade Trim to work on developing uh a lot of data analysis using the census and the American community survey uh regarding uh essentially building a community profile about East Lancing and then some data about the housing market and potential needs and then developed based on a combination of the CD advisory committee developing that first budget as well as those community workshops as well as uh historical context from staff on what has been funded in the past and what the needs might be. Uh developed a strategic plan for over that 5-year period and that document is is together and a draft of which is attached to the agenda item report.

Gotcha. In the community profile, does that dramatically change from the last cycle to this cycle? I mean, is it just kind of circumstances or things that you guys consider or is it pretty standard from each cycle? Um it's pretty standard what our communities cuz we don't get like a huge amount of money but and the needs that we address are pretty much the same each time. We do get some different public um service ones like if we have legal services. We haven't gotten that in a couple years. Um but we usually are usually homeless, housing um and public infrastructure projects like sidewalks um and program administration are the focuses.

And then so the trend has been the money's being less and less each time, right? It fluctuates like we've I think we've gone lower than this amount before, but it it definitely has been going down the past couple of years. Yes. But historically, it's gone down quite a bit compared to say two decades ago. Uh and for each of these past five years, it's gone down. But prior to that, for the five years before that, it was going up. So, we hope that trends change. Yeah. Yeah. Well, again, I I ca came in on the end of that process for this last round here, and I just uh I'm looking forward to kind of what you guys cook up next round, too, as well. So,

further questions concerning the planning process. Uh where are we with the Oh, there they are. Excellent. Nick of time. Okay, good job, everybody. All right, please proceed.

Yes. So the first slide is just showing the budget for uh this year's CDBG. Um and the first half of it is the public service projects um or public service um applicants that are receiving funding. Um a lot some of them are housing or not housing uh homeless services um uh services for elderly to get um food um and uh MSU migrant student services, youth scholarship program. and then our successful leasing program that the um city administers which helps with uh first month's rent and um security deposit. And we are adding a eviction prevention um that you'll be seeing in the future that we're bringing to um to council in the next month or so. Um and that will help uh make sure that people aren't are not getting evicted and they can get some help with that. Um and then we have some uh infrastructure projects, the combined sewer improvements um that should be happening pretty soon. as well as the northern tier trail extension. Um that will be adding an extension to up near is it over um near Chandler? Correct. Sure.

Fire station. Fire. Oh, that's okay. That's fire station. Okay. And then uh Spartan Spartan Housing Cooperative are are rehabilitating one of their um co-op houses. And then of course the program administration that helps um us do our work. So, next slide.

Any questions on the fisc year 27 annual action plan budget or the five-year consolidated plan? Because I think we've pretty much gone over most of the other items. Yeah, on on this slide, we've kind of gone over questions concerning this recent information. Um, I just want to you've mentioned this before, but I just want to make it clear for folks. There's pretty rigorous reporting requirements to make sure that people who take advantage who who receive funding from this program are connected to East Lancing, right? They have to all the the community organizations have to uh give you records of correct people who receive services from East Lancing. Okay. Yeah.

Yep. Right. Just wanted to reiterate that. Anything else? I just recognize I know Heather Pope had a lot to do with this in the past and now I just appreciate all that you do for this. I think it's a huge service for our community and I think it's rigorous and accountable and I appreciate all that you've done in the past and all that you're doing now. Thank you. Thank you. And again, we are not voting tonight, right? We are considering this two weeks from now. Yes. The May 26th. The May 26th. Okay. Great. So, I think that concludes this agenda item. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, yeah.

Oops. Thank you. It's a team sport. I appreciate it. This is great. Okay. I will now open the public hearing to consider the city of East Lancing's community development block grant 2026 to 2030 consolidated plan and PY 2026 FY 2027 annual action plan. Is there anyone in the audience who would like to address this issue? Okay, seeing none, I will close the public hearing. Uh, and I believe that concludes the agenda item. Thank you.

All right. Appreciate it. Thank you. That brings us to uh our business agenda item 6.1 uh is to introduce ordinance 1571 and ordinance to amend ordinance 1466 an ordinance amending chapter 2 article 5 division 9 of the code of the city east lancing titled university student commission uh director Hajes please. Good evening. Good evening, council. Elise Sajes, director of planning, building housing, and I have with me a guest. Go ahead. Okay. My name is Eleanor. I'm a thirdyear PhD student at Michigan State and also currently serving as member of the university student commission.

So, what we have before you is um an ordinance to update the USC membership. Um earlier in the spring I presented this task to the USC really because there was an organization that no longer existed in the same way that it used to and we needed to update and fill in that spot. Um I was surprised and excited that the USC really took the ball and ran with it. They wanted to make many more changes um to clarify some things uh adjust the the timing of the uh the term that they serve. Um they even added an extra meeting during exam week just so that they could make sure that this was done and voted on and approved so it could be um reviewed by all of you. So the biggest changes I'll just review quickly. We're cleaning up the membership language. Um not every organization that was was listed is technically an RSO, a registered student organization. So we wanted to broaden that definition to really accommodate the organizations that already are listed. um the Oland Health Center no longer had a student organization that was feeding into the USC. So the students um and Elanor can speak to this as well really had valuable conversation over several meetings of what organizations made sense to fill that hole. Um we the chair reached out to several organizations um on campus to see if they were interested in a spot. Ultimately, the Mosaic Center um for outreach and education were selected as the one to fill the vacancy that we had. Although they did also reach out to the office of international students and scholars. They are also very interested in uh potentially filling an ATL large membership role next year as sort of a trial. Um and so the other big change was like I said the timing of the terms. Right now their term expires September 30th. um which means uh they come back for one meeting in the fall and then in October we start with a new group. Um many of our members move on in April, they are uh elected into those roles and

those elections typically take place in the spring or over the summer. So many of those members aren't even eligible to come to that September meeting. And so ending the term in August made made more sense so that when we start this the fall semester, we can start right away with that group in September. but still leaving the open um it's still in there to save if an atlarge or if a position hasn't been filled we do give them until September 30th before it becomes an atlarge an additional at large position so that contingency is still there just kind of allows the students to move on with whatever their next uh position is or graduate because we do have students that graduate in April and cannot attend that fall meeting. So those are the big changes. I'm happy to answer any other questions that you might have um related to anything that's in the redlinined copy

questions for staff. I just have a comment. Just want to commend um the USC uh commissioners as well as you Elise. I think the body had a very thoughtful conversation and um I think it's an important uh piece to evaluate uh the ordinance commission um framing ordinances to make sure it meets today's needs and also reflects today's environment. Um like if the organization still exists. So, I just want to say that out loud. And I wish I could torture you more, Eleanor, so you could tell your mom. We're going to keep her around. Yeah,

we're going to try really hard. Oh, I love that. I love that. Oh, she's turning red on that.

I do have a one. I want to give a shout out to Doug Jester, former mayor of the city of East Lancing. Establishing the university student commission was his idea and uh the council at the time supported it and it has been great over the years. But there has been a problem uh at various times having one of these organizations nominate someone to to actually serve on the on the university student commission even after several attempts to get them to do so. Um and um I think these changes are terrific. So improving this ordinance, getting it more modernized, I think we'll continue to get the great work that we get and advice from the university student commission. So very supportive of these changes.

Further questions? Uh I just have one. Um, ordinarily we would introduce and refer to the commission, but it sounds like this ordinance, these changes are a product of the commission. Correct. Right. And so you're not recommending that we refer back to the commission. No. No. Because they they did vote on the April 28th meeting to approve all the changes. That's great. All right. So, uh, is there a motion? Yeah. I'll move to approve um to approve ordinance 1571, an ordinance to amend ordinance 1466 and ordinance

I believe we're move I believe we're introducing Oh, I thought we were going to approve it. Introduce and approve. We can't do both at the same night. Yeah, we have to have two meetings.

Okay, let me first move. Why do I always do this every it gets to this period of the night too and I screw up the language. Okay. Okay. So, I am going to move to introduce the ordinance 1571 and ordinance to amend ordinance 1466 and ordinance amending chapter 2 article 5 division 9 of the code of the city of East Lancing titled University Student Commission. Uh moved by Singh, second by Griggsby. Any discussion of the motion? Okay.

Should we specifically say to to to put it on the May 26 26 um meeting schedule? So we've introduced and to um refer it to the the May 26. There any objections to council member Meadow's amendment? No. But on the calendar for May 26th. Okay. So, the motion is amended to put this on the the meeting agenda for the 26th. Got it. Okay. Any discussion of the motion? All those please.

What about the consent agenda on May 26th? That's a wink to you, Whan. Absolutely. I agree. And I think that's a great amendment. Oh, I agree with that. Oh, Chuck, you did my second. All right. I want to ask the city attorney uh for his uh opinion on this.

Yes. Well, the consent agenda will have the same action uh in effect. Uh it's uh obviously something that is not typical, but in an instance such as this, it's in your discretion to do that. Certainly, a lot of times when you're adopting an ordinance, that's the final act and and you don't do that, but there's nothing prohibiting this. Okay. So, I'm going to take that as an amendment to the motion to put on the consent agenda on May 26, 2026. Are there any objections to that amendment? Okay. Without objection, that amendment is adopted. Are we ready to vote? Okay. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed?

Okay, that motion carries. And uh 1541 is on the consent agenda for May 26, 2026. All right, thank you everyone. Next item is 6.2, Two, consideration of ordinance 1574 amending ordinance 1364, an ordinance to modify the Chesterfield Hills resident permit parking resident parking permit program. Mr. Clayton, good evening, council.

Uh, Stephen Clayton with the DPW engineering. Um, here before you is the second reading and adoption of that ordinance that you just read. Um I'll we've gone through this at length, so I'll be brief. Um this was in response to resident requests uh to establish a parking permit program uh in relation to several cars um most notably near Michigan Avenue. This is for Cali Avenue between Michigan Avenue and Oakidge Avenue and then Oakidge Avenue between Cowi Avenue and uh Kensington Road. uh staff responded by uh gathering data which supported the uh the resident's concerns. Um and in alignment with the ordinance uh we took we presented that to the commission the transportation commission which uh voted unanimously in support of it as well as uh staff continues to support this ordinance change due to u the maintenance concerns. uh a ballot was sent out uh and returned with 21 in support and eight opposed. Uh and then the only uh addition to the last uh agenda was we did clear it with the attorney as far as the ordinance language. So if you have any questions

questions for staff on this. Okay. Motion. Yeah. Please move to adopt ordinance 1574 amending ordinance 1364 ordinance to modify Chesterfield Hills resident parking permit program. Moved by Griggsby. Second. Second by Whan. Uh any discussion? Again I think this is a um long overdue situation and I think it really will serve the people in that community. Any further? It's been through the transportation commission and due process.

Yeah. Any further comments? I will just reflect very briefly that the uh parking permit program that we're amending here was one that we put in 10 years ago and that did not go so easily as this one that was contested. And I think a couple of things changed here. I mean, it's a different stretch of road, but also I think uh staff did a great job working with the neighborhood on this. So I appreciate the the outreach and also uh the input from um DBW concerning keeping the grates free and all that stuff. So a lot of people weighed into this and also um the neighborhood association which I think was pretty fow 10 years ago um was uh I think played a role in making sure there was good communication. I think it points to the importance of neighborhood associations as being a a locus of um trying to get people on the same page about projects like this. So, this one has gone a lot smoother than the last one. Any further comments on this?

No, I just note that we also have 10 years of experience with on street parking permit in that neighborhood, which wasn't in existence at the time, 10 years ago. So, it it helps that people realize it's not going to ruin their life. All right, any further comments? All right. Uh, all those in favor say I.

I. Any opposed? Uh, ordinance 1574 is approved. Thank you. Which brings us to item 6.3. Introduce and refer to the planning commission ordinance 1575, amendments to the to chapter 50 of the city code, the zoning zoning ordinance, and to chapter 4 of the city code to modify requirements related to electric vehicles and charging stations, parking ratios for automobiles and bicycles, landscaping, green space and trees, and the keeping of bees and chickens. Yes, Grace Whitney, associate planner. Um, this ordinance originated with the green code study committee that met over the course of summer of 2025. Um, and then staff presented the results of and their suggestions at the December discussion only meeting and from there we went to um including some of the language that they went over in the ordinance. I think the uh committee anticipated that um some of the things that they decided on more of the fine details would get worked out at the planning commission and commission on the environment levels. Um so it's kind of a template. They wanted to add some requirements for example um for different electric vehicle charging stations um but they weren't sure you know what exact ratio that should be. So, um, as it goes through that process, we anticipate there'll be some changes at the detail level.

Thank you for the summary. Questions for staff at this point? Okay. Is there a motion? Mr. Whan, I move to introduce and refer ordinance 1575 to the planning commission for the commission on the environment. the planning commission and the commission on the environment and the commission on the environment. Motion by Whan. Second. Second by Griggsby. Any further discussion, comments? Mr. Griggsby? No, I don't have any comments. All right. All those in favor say I.

I. Any opposed? That motion carries and ordinance 1575 is uh introduced and referred to the planning commission and the commission on the environment. Uh, next item is 6.4. Introduce and refer to the planning commission ordinance 1576 amendments to chapter 50 of the city code, the zoning ordinance to require special use approval for multifamily residential units in certain business districts, clarify requirements for retail sales of alcohol for off-site consumption, and add requirements for use of certain building incentives. Mr. Mr. Bartley.

Uh, excuse me. Thank you, Mayor. Landon Bartley, principal planner. Uh, yes. This this is an ordinance meant to modify the zoning ordinance to essentially correct uh some items. Uh, we unintentionally opened a loophole for the diverse housing requirement. We want to close it. Uh, and this would do that. We want to clarify our approach to retail sale of alcohol uh, in line with state uh, state requirements. Uh we had a a different opinion a couple years ago and we need to change that uh how we approach those. And then uh a couple years ago we adopted an ordinance that incentivized uh certain building characteristics with additional height. One of those uh that was sort of laid ad was uh to have uh an incentive for lead gold buildings uh but we didn't have sort of clarifying language about how we how we could approve uh that incentive. So, we'd be adding a requirement for pre-certification essentially and certification after the fact uh for lead buildings. So, this step is uh simply to introduce and refer the planning commission.

Questions for Mr. Bartley? Anything? I'll make a motion. Okay. Please. Uh I'll move to introduce and refer ordinance 1576 to the planning commission for public hearing and recommendation. Motion by Griggsby. Second by Meadows. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Okay. Thank you. That ordinance 1576 is introduced and referred to the planning commission.

Thank you. Next item is 6.5. Consideration of the scheduling of a public hearing by city council on June 16, 2026 to receive comments on proposed ordinance 1559 which would amend section 50-94 of the zoning ordinance which defines a diverse housing requirement in downtown East Lancing. The amendments would allow for a fee in lie to be paid uh in to a fee to be paid in lie of meeting the requirement the diverse housing requirement define a formula for that fee and allow for the transfer of diverse housing credits from areas outside of downtown. Mr. Bartley.

Uh thank you mayor. So uh yes I think that sums up the um the ordinance uh that's proposed. uh the planning commission, we we've discussed this uh with the council and with the planning commission uh at some length. Uh and the planning commission on April 22nd uh recommended approval of an ordinance with several changes. Uh I'd like to give a brief report on what those changes are just as a way of giving this this council report on where we are with this ordinance. Uh but tonight's step would be to schedule a public hearing by the city council uh for June 16th, 2026. Uh so the planning commission uh unanimously recommended approval uh but with several changes. They uh proposed to reduce the diverse housing requirement where it applies uh from 25% to 10%. Uh they proposed a fee in Lu that would be based on the residential construction cost of the building uh which would be 5% of the residential construction cost. We could look that at that by floors or by square footage. Uh but essentially basing it on the construction cost of residential uses within that building uh with some reductions that are possible. So again the fa the base fee only would be 5% of residential construction cost. Uh planning commission proposed a uh 1% reduction if the building is uh uh majority mass timber. Proposed a.5% reduction for a building that's lead gold certified or higher. Uh a.5% reduction for uh providing car share vehicle uh or.5% require or reduction for uh providing transit passes uh to all the residents for 5 years. Um the planning commission also proposed uh to allow transfers of diverse housing credits essentially access diverse housing credits which is currently allowed in downtown but the planning commission proposed to allow that that to happen the transfer to happen from projects constructed outside of downtown uh specifically south of Sagena Highway and uh within the districts B3 or EV. B3 being downtown, EV being uh East Village

uh which is essentially south of Grand River uh west, excuse me, east of Bogue. Uh that would be transferred on a 1:1 basis. Then also uh proposed uh allowing transfers from B2, RM32 and RM54 zone districts uh but with a slight disincentive. So each credit would count as 1.1 credit to transfer to one credit uh within downtown. Uh the planning commission proposed to create a commission or committee that would uh sort of manage uh recommend uh the dispersement of funds received uh through the fee and loo program uh requiring at least one planning commissioner and one housing commissioner to be on that committee or commission and restricting uh the funds to have something to do with housing. Uh recommended a one-year review of this ordinance by the planning commission and council. Um, one thing I just want to note too is that the planning commission stopped short of recommenda uh of of recommending what staff had recommended which was uh expanding the area in which diverse housing is required. Uh we had proposed to expand that to the entire DDA area instead of what where it currently is proposed which is or required which is the DDA area west of Collingwood Road. uh that that we had received a couple comments uh specifically from folks in DDA saying we didn't really know about this and we're not interested. Um planning commission essentially said yeah let's leave it up the council is whether or not you want to uh expand the area. Staff had proposed that uh sort of balancing out the proposed reduction of the 25% requirement down to 10%. So thought that it would make sense to expand the area in which is required. Uh but the planning commission stopped short of recommending that. I think that that uh summarizes the changes proposed by planning commission. Again, tonight our uh the step is to schedule your public hearing by council for June 16th of 2020.

Questions for Mr. Bartley? Clarifying question. So is one of the recommendations then to extend the requirement of what is now proposed as 10% to the EV district because currently that isn't a requirement over there. Uh correct that is not and that that extension is not proposed. The planning commission okay stopped short of proposing any expansion of where diverse housing is required. I have a question concerning that sir. If we decided to expand the area would that require a separate notice I don't

and hearing to the people in that area because this came up during the planning commission hearing. There were allegations of due process violations if we expanded the region to which the diverse housing requirement applied without a separate notice for a separate ordinance. Stephen, can you Yep.

And uh Mr. Bartley can confirm this for me, but my understanding is that the notice that's been provided for this uh is not the type of notice that goes within 300 ft of a district. This is the type of notice that went citywide. Um um and so this isn't in other words the notice that goes out to property owners within 300 feet is usually within a district and that's when you're specific notice the designated areas. I'm not sure that that was a question. I think that it was a question of whether or not

the you could uh expand the area without that specific uh change having been in the public notice. That that's my question and what's driving the question is if I'm a property owner uh for example east of Collingwood in the DDA and suddenly find that my property is subject to the diverse housing requirement. Am I facing do I have a due process issue claim against the city because the notice did not include that right u

if that's a sensible question. Again, this is subject to I' I'd want to review the exact notice that went out. I don't think that the notice was specific in terms of the finer details of the ordinance. However, the ordinance that would have been provided probably wouldn't have had that provision in it. Um, if council is going to go in that direction, um, now would be the time to do that such that you could have, uh, clear notice in that regard. it would be uh appropriate to do that. Um and I um I can't say the notice that is issued publicly is going to specify that detail of the ordinance, but it could and uh you might direct it to do that. Uh either way, it specifies what the ordinance generally is going to do and and that would probably need to be added to that in a general sense, although the exact language wouldn't be in there. So, I think it would be a good idea to do it now. If you're going to do it, if you do it later, um I'll be a little more prepared to be able to provide you better guidance that we got to we have to hold another public hearing and do another notice. Uh safe bet is to if you're going to do it now would be an opportunity to take advantage of that.

Uh Mr. city attorney. I'm wondering if uh

if we were to include language in the notice that said XYZ and the consideration of potential expansion of the area in which this requirement applies, would that sort of vague language be acceptable for notice? Well, I I you know, I think it would be better to have the language prepared ahead of time uh and or to at least know that it's going in there and have that part of the discussion this evening so that um it's not a potential. The idea is to give them notice of what is being brought to council for adoption. Um I think it would be again better to have that more clear and more definite if you're going to head that direction. So my questions were largely academic uh and I'm not going to propose that we add that language but others may

I want to clarify that. So, um if we were to consider expanding, uh uh eastward, uh say to um to Hagadorn, uh or all the way, um you know, across the EV district and in include the entire DDA district. Why wouldn't we just today because we are scheduling a public hearing authorize uh staff to mail a notice to each of um the property owners in that area indicating that we will be considering that at least so that they can show up at the public hearing uh and we wouldn't run into any of the problems that we might run into if we make a change and they haven't received any notice regarding it.

Again, um I think it would result in a change to the ordinance and if if you're not going to head in that direction, uh there's no need to add that and it and it could only confuse what is going to happen. If you're going to do it, we can add that language with your motion this evening to the ordinance and have it on hand. if somebody gets that notice and says, "I want to see a copy of what that language is going to look like," it will be in there. And that's what I was trying to advise, uh, that we know that we need to put it in there and bring it back to you with it in it, um, for your consideration or even an alternative ordinance that has it in it and not in it so that we have something to provide

because and the only reason I'm asking that is that whether we Assuming that we we do expand it, the one of the planning commission recommendations from the staff report is is to allow transfer of credits from areas outside of downtown and that would be recommend one to one credits transferred from B3 to EV zone districts. even though if we don't expand it there, it's pointless to have this language recommended and in the ordinance anyway. Uh so I think we need to talk about that. Do we are we this is a public hearing. Are we planning on passing this at the

No, this is uh introduction. Oh, this we're setting a public hearing. No, I know. But the public hearing at the public hearing, would we be able to vote on this ordinance at that time? you you can vote following the public hearing. Uh I my understanding is generally you try to hold the public hearing and and then do it at a subsequent meeting, but there is nothing prohibiting you from taking action at that meeting after the public hearing.

All right. I just I'm a little concerned about it and so I'm I'd rather give too much notice than too little notice, I guess. But I'm not sure how enthusiastic I am about going that down in this direction. And so if we're going to signal something that we're not going to end up doing, then that seems like it could cause some confusion. That's that's my take. Worst case, it would add another two weeks or two meeting to send out another public notice, right? Like that if in our public hearing we decided this is a direction we want to go, we would then notice again the external area, which I know that would be correct. Yes, I think that's a good point. So let's

it's a two weeks. Yep. All right. So, I did have um Oh, if I may, Mr. Mayor, I'm not sure that two weeks is enough time. No, it would be it would be a little over a month. Thank you. Yes. Because of snail mail, because of the timing to get a notice of the paper and to say, yeah, to send mail out, we we require typically five weeks, but it would be a little bit shorter than that in order to get the turn the notice around. It's under state law. the amount of notice that has to be given it wouldn't fit within two weeks to be it needs to be 30 days. I it needs to be 15 days. 15 is right. Yes.

But we can't get it to the paper but it requires a little lead time to get it to the paper in advance of those 15 days and and because council is on a Tuesday and the paper is published on a Wednesday, we actually have to go a little bit further. So it requires additional time. Okay. I think yeah your point stands I think in my view I have a couple of um sort of higher level questions and comments in one sentence can you tell us what's the policy goal of this new ordinance

I would say that the policy goal is to um continue to have a diverse housing requirement that has several options uh for compliance. Okay. Um fair enough. Is there a simpler way to achieve it?

Uh I I would say yes. I'm I'm not quite sure on how exactly to do that without some more thought.

So context for my questions. Um the reason we did the diverse housing requirement initially 10 years ago in my mind my reason for wanting to go in that direction was to diversify the demographic profile in the downtown with uh side goal side benefit of diversifying the business profile in the downtown because if you have a more diverse residential profile then retail follows residential. What we've done with this ordinance is we've really let go of that goal, right? We've said you can transfer credits in from places outside the downtown area, which means you don't have to build the diverse housing in the downtown anymore. You can build it somewhere else. And so that goal has dropped off here. And um when I was listening to the planning commission discussion of this a few years ago or a few weeks ago years Freudian slip um my reaction was that this is an enormously complicated ordinance and you recited some of the ways in which it's complicated. um creates a new commission. Uh all these different parameters. It sounds like it creates a lot of work for staff in various ways. Um we already have 30 or so boards of commissions. Another one I'm not sure I think we have to be very careful to add more to that. Um, one of the the policy elements that came up in the discussion is that this is about affordable housing, right? It's a way to try to trigger building of affordable housing. Um, I think a good way to build affordable housing is to build more housing. Full

stop. Um, and a good way to build more housing is to remove regulatory barriers. So to the extent that affordable housing is our goal and we've set aside the goal of diversifying the down the downtown demographic profile, my inclination is actually to just remove the diverse housing requirement completely. just get rid of it because if we're not going to go with that original goal, which I think was worthwhile, but I understand why um it might sort of it's time may have passed. Um I'm saying this now not because we're voting on this tonight, but because I want to add to the conversation on this issue um over the next few weeks until we end up voting on this. Um, anyone else would like to address these issues? Mr. Whan?

Yes. I My personal goal is to make development more attractive and appropriate in our city rather than less. I agree with the concern. I think the goal was great at one point about the diverse housing component, but I also am a what do people want and what um so I think we have made it very very complicated and I think it's um this is an impressive document getting through it was yeah it was it's just very very complicated I We've got so many hurdles to development in East Lancing that we haven't had development in East Lancing. Um I think the arguments about all the different percentages and all the different things. And again, I think the intentions were fantastic. I don't know that we've lived out those intentions that we have not really been able to provide a variety of people to live here. We just have not provided more opportunity for anyone to live here. That is my concern and I am in agreement that this is very complex and I think it's too complex and I think we should make it much simpler to for developers to um build here.

Further discussion.

All right, I'll throw a little more on if I can. The uh well, first of all, I don't think that the diverse housing requirement has been a failure. I think that uh we had two major projects within our community. One resulted using this to provide senior housing in the downtown. Uh the objective at the time I think was a worthy objective to it was more about uh economic diversification in the downtown. And uh that's not to say that we couldn't have because we have Deer Path. We had another uh project over off of Coolage which is now market rate but but at one time was low to moderate income housing and those had been successful but they're a long way from the downtown. And so this was the objective was to provide economic diversification. I don't think that 25% is like a magic number uh of any kind, but I am worried about us going so far down to to 10% uh as we go forward. So, I need a little more convincing that uh we shouldn't just ratchet it down a little bit and see if if that makes a difference for developers. But I think the lack of development in the downtown has a lot more to do with CO than it does with the diversified housing requirement and we are now seeing projects being proposed. And this is these two that are pending or are were preceded by another one uh involving much of the same property. And one of our issues is where can you build you know what do we have in terms of either vacant land or re uh land that can be restructured uh to provide this. So I however the

incentives are that we need to have available to us and maybe this payment in loo can serve as a as long as it's large enough u can serve as a way for us to encourage it um I think we should head in that direction but getting rid of the diversified housing requirement I think is a mistake um that it would be a mistake for the city to do that. Uh so whether it's 10% or 15% it still is a requirement to try to economically diversify our downtown area. I, you know, um I'm sure we'll have the debate with regard to expansion of the area, but I also don't think that limiting it to the B3 district between um Collingwood and the western uh edge of that district is magic either. So, the proposal to have uh properties available south of Sageno, which we do have some properties that I think could uh be used for redevelopment. Um those are that's a worthy area for us to take a look at. So that's my two cents at this point in time and I'll await the public comment but um I do feel strongly that we need some encouragement and requirement from developers to provide for low to moderate income individuals to live in our downtown area or in the very close surrounding neighborhoods.

Further comments council member Singh. Yeah, I'm just I'm trying to imagine at least listening to your comments, mayor, and Mr. Whan's comments on if we re remove the diverse housing, what would be built, what would be proposed? And again, this isn't Austin. I feel like we've had this conversation along the lines like, yes, we have a university and guess what? Only students are going to be able to pay for market rate. So if we want something other than market rate housing, we do want to leverage that desire to build, you know, whether it's affordable or whether other attributes. I would love a simple solution. You're looking at a gal that loves bullet points. Okay. Like I would love a simple solution. I'm not sure if that's um achievable. Um, even though Landon, you indicated that you may have a solution here, something more simple than what you put before us, but um, you know, anyway, I just those are my comments, you know, on the discussion thus far and, you know, we'll we can talk more at the public hearing.

Any further comments? Okay. I think this was useful to have a conversation about this. Is there a motion? Yeah. I don't have it in front of me. Yeah, there's a motion. Uh, we got Griggsby. Griggsby's. I think I got it. Um, I move to schedule a public hearing by city council for June 16th, 2026 to receive comments on proposed ordinance 1559. Okay. Move motion by Griggsby. Second. Second by Singh. Uh, any further discussion? All those in favor say I.

I. Any oppose? Okay, that motion carries and that public hearing is scheduled. Uh item 6.6, consideration of a request from 246 Equities LLC for a site plan approval located at 601 Abbott Road. The applicant request is to convert the existing office building to a 9 unit apartment building. The property is zoned RM32 city center multiple family residential district. So, um the application before you is a request to convert um the existing office building within the same footprint to a 9-unit um apartment building. All of the units that are proposed are three-bedroom units um with proposed occupancy for three uh people in each of them. Um the planning commission had their public hearing um at their April 8th meeting. They did not receive any public comments. Um they uh voted unanimously to recommend the proposal at their April 22nd meeting. Um between those two meetings, the applicant was able to address some concerns that they had um such as the removal of the walkway on the south end of the building. The planning commission thought that that would be um advantageous to maintain um for pedestrian access. Um most of the exterior changes are related to the parking lot and um various walkways located on the site. The applicant is proposing to remove some of the paving in order to be under the uh maximum paving percentage allowed in the Sony district which is 60%.

Questions for staff? We previously approved something in here like condos, right? Yes, correct. And that that project is no longer moving forward. Okay. And is it the same ownership? It's the same ownership. Um the applicant for the previous project was different. Um they had entered a purchase agreement, I believe, is my understanding. Um but the ownership of the property at that time was the same as this applicant in ownership. Okay. And any changes, those were also three-bedroom condominiums. Um, so the condo units that were proposed, I believe there were about 30 units and they were all one-bedroom units within that. Got it.

And that was within that was a different building. They were proposing to demolish and build a new structure. Okay. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Is the applicant with us? No, they are not. The applicant is not with us. Okay. Um, so I have a question, I guess. Um, I would like to add when we get to a motion, I would like to add a commit a condition that would uh require the applicant to reduce impervious surface area on site such that storm water runoff is reduced compared with the existing conditions. My understanding from staff is that they're proposing to do that anyway. Correct. Yep. That is what is shown on their plans

and I just want to formalize it as a condition. Do you have any concerns with us doing that? Um, as long as the city attorney feels comfortable with that, that's what is demonstrated on their plan. So, I think that would be consistent with their proposal. Mr. Chopic, yes. I I don't have any legal issues with that. Uh, provided as indicated, it is on the site plan already. So, it is essentially a requirement. Uh, by adding it as a condition, you're emphasizing that the importance of that.

Exactly. Any further questions? I've got one question which is uh are we are we requiring um the ability to charge electric vehicle with regard to this this particular project?

They do not have any um EV spaces provided or proposed to be provided. Um the ordinance doesn't require them unless there's a required um 50 spaces or more currently and they're only required to have 23. So they're not required to have one. Any further questions? All right. So, I have a motion unless anybody else wants to beat me to it. I have a motion. Um, I move to approve a site plan request from Andrew Aboud at of 246 Equities LLC, including site plan approval at 601 Abbott Road for renovations of the existing office building into a 9-unit apartment building and associated proposed site work. Findings. This decision is based on the findings and determinations as to each standard applicable to the site plan proposal under section 50-38 of the city zoning ordinance that were remended recommended to city council by the planning commission at the commission's regularly scheduled meeting on April 22nd, 2026 with reference to and reliance on the applicant's application, plan submissions, public testimony, city staff analysis and review and other submissions relative to its propo its proposed development. The city council adopts the findings made by the planning commission in its approval recommendation dated April 22nd, 2026. Approval conditions pursuant to zoning ordinance sections 50-36D and MCL125.354 sub4. The above approvals are subject to compliance with the following conditions of approval which the city council finds to be reasonable and necessary to ensure that the plan conforms to all applicable requirements and to otherwise comply with the requirements applicable to approval conditions under section 50-36D and MCL125.3504 sub4. Number one, approval is in accordance

with the plans provided by the applicant and per testimony subject to revisions as required. Number two, all required permits shall be obtained from the department of planning, building, and housing for all interior renovations as well as for exterior signs in accordance with chapter 32 of the city code titled signs. Number three, the project shall be designed and developed in accordance with all applicable state and local statutes, codes, and regulations. Number four, the applicant shall provide adequate recycling service to residents. Number five, the proposed dumpster on site shall be screened as required by zoning ordinance section 50-147. Number six, all plant materials installed shall meet the size requirements of article 9 of the zoning ordinance. And condition seven, the applicant shall reduce imperous surface area on site such that storm water runoff is reduced compared with existing conditions. That is my motion.

Second by Meadows. Any discussion of the motion? Yes, Mr. When. Um, so there's neighbors on Evergreen right behind this property. Have they been So I'm sorry. When is it going to the public? So, uh, the public hearing was held at the beginning of April at the planning commission. Um, and any properties within 350 ft would have received a notice in the mail. And was there significant comments or No, there were no public comments received regarding this application.

Okay. Because what I understand, there's a parking lot then that's an alley. So, there's no homes that face that alley. They all face evergreen. So this is kind of far in their backyard and then there's a parking lot and then the building. So there's a little bit of a buffer zone between the apartment the new proposed apartments and this neighborhood. Mhm. And they did not come in. Yes. We did not receive any comments. Okay. Planning commission. Thank you. And this is for site plan review, not SU. So for site plan review, we don't have our own hearing. Yep. No, that's good. Any further questions or discussion? Okay. Seeing none, uh, all those in favor say I. I. I. I.

Any opposed? That motion carries. And that site plan request is approved. Item 6.7, consideration of policy resolution establishing amended and restated rules and procedures for city council meetings, resolutions, council agendas, mayoral responsibilities, and council member authority. We have discussed this before. Mr. Jopic, any comments you would like to make? Uh I don't have any um significant comments other than to uh you know explain here that um this is a policy resolution that amends an series of other policy resolutions that have been adopted uh by various councils over the years. Uh each council is uh able to adjust the rules and has over time amended them several times. Um this is uh um an effort here to take a look at these rules up and for council to consider updating them uh uh to um fit uh the the the council to clarify a number of things in the rules. There are some areas that are unclear or worded in an unclear manner. There are some parts of the existing rules that um are questionable in terms of charter compliance uh and clarity in terms of the differentiation between regular special and discussion meetings and how different rules apply to those different types of meetings. Um there is um uh in fact the adjustment in terms of how

public comment uh would proceed. It uh it does not uh uh limit public comment to agenda or non-aggenda items. It allows public comment on any item. Uh and and it's um so it really is not any differentiation in in terms of that in terms of what can be covered during public comment. It remains as is. Uh members of the public can comment on agenda items during public comment or other items as they so wish. Uh it does adjust the time from five to three minutes and it provides uh for some clarity in terms of the mayor uh calling speakers and um how speakers are to direct their comments to council uh during their time allotted. Uh it addresses some rules of uh procedure under Robert's rules. City Council has never formally taken action to adopt any formal set of procedural rules. Uh many if not all of the boards and commissions operate with Robert's rules. So this is kind of consistent with what many of your or all of your boards and commissions are doing in terms of uh adopting a formal set of rules. But of course, those rules um do not apply if they contradict your ordinances or or um state laws that require you to follow a different procedure. For example, you have public hearing requirements. You had a couple of them this evening, not as much contemplated under Robert's rules and how those proceed and so on and so forth. There are some differences and how votes are taken and so on and so forth on specific items. It addresses roll call votes in terms of providing uh

for a rotating basis at the meeting. Um so that the same member of council is not the first vote every time which is a change from the past to help spread out who votes first and and and allow that to proceed in that manner. Um, it also clarifies some of the issues regarding resolutions and the differentiation between policy resolutions and other resolutions. Uh, all to to try and bring it a little more in line with the charter. I don't think it was directly out of line with the charter and things are going to continue the same terms of listing on the website policy resolutions and other resolutions. Uh, the numbering is going to be a little more consistent with the city charter we feel. Uh but that's all provided in here as well. Um it does provide for uh under the mayoral repres or mayoral responsibility section. Uh it does provide um for clarity in terms of who is the presiding officer of the meeting. I think it's always just been assumed it's the mayor, right? But your rules have never said that. And your we found that your city charter doesn't say that currently. uh nor do any ordinances. So, uh good idea to put it somewhere and uh and make that clear. And in the mayor's absence, it's the mayor prom and and so forth. So, um those are covered in there. Um and uh I think that about covers it. If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them or if I missed anything, please let me know.

Just the effective date. Oh, apologies. Yes, I we plugged in an effective date of July 1st. So, it will not be effect if you do adopt it and proceed with it tonight. It will not be effective until July 1st unless you choose another date and want to put that in here. Of course, that is in your discretion.

Questions concerning this ordinance for the city attorney or anything else? I do the uh I just because of uh some of the comments at the microphone tonight about the sergeant-at-arms um issue. I just want to make sure what we're doing here is not in conflict with 4.7g of the the city charter that specifically provides that uh you know for the requirement of attendance of council members uh and provides the council may enforce orderly conduct at any meeting period. Any member of the council or other officer of the city who refuses to attend such meetings can be brought in and uh shall be deemed guilty of misconduct in office. The chief of police shall serve as the sergeant at arms of the council in the enforcement of the provisions of this section. So I I think we have the authority to create this language here because the council may enforce orderly conduct and that's in line with that but we don't specifically I think say the chief of police is going to be the the sergeant-at-arms although the charter says that. So are we okay with this language? It's not in conflict with G or that's what I'm asking.

Yeah. Um, I would say it is consistent with G in terms of that's where the language sergeant-at-arms was borrowed from your city charter. It establishes that position to keep order at at business meetings of city council. So, that is naturally where the city would go to, as do many other cities and other um governmental bodies that try to keep order at their meetings and so forth. they have somebody in a a position that is in that position of sergeant-at-arms. It's an it is admittedly an old-fashioned term, but it is still used in your charter. And so, we borrowed that and plugging it in here. And um um to help uh maintain that consistency, I would note that uh subf in the charter specifically says council shall determine its own rules and order of business uh in connection with its meeting. So here again you see you are able under your charter to adopt these rules of procedures. You have for decades adopted rules and procedures for your meetings. Open Meetings Act also allows you to adopt reasonable rules and procedures for your meetings. So, you do have the legal support for this and um there is the ability to have an individual to help you maintain order if that were to ever happen. Um it's there. I um I I don't think it is um granted I've I've been here 6 months, but I've never seen anything come anywhere close to needing any sort of uh um that type of order be kept in a meeting, but uh

most 30 years and I haven't seen any. So, it's not an uncommon provision to have in your rules of order uh to have it on hand if something happens at a meeting. Um

yeah, I'll note that uh you know in the past uh when we were operating out of city hall and having our meetings there, there virtually was always police officers in the back of the room to enforce order in case necessary, but we were never needed to utilize that. The other question I have, it's just a confirmation. the Robert's rules of order, the language that we have are adding in this in this proposal is that we may follow it so that if we were to deviate from Robert's rules of order, we couldn't be challenged on something that we did. Is that how you read it as well?

I I do. And in fact, Robert's rules has provisions in it to allow council by consensus to operate other than as indicated in Robert's rules. Um, I've never had to I've thought through the question of does Robert's rules create some sort of legal u requirement that um the city can be challenged on. Um and I've always come to the conclusion that um because it allows you to operate on consensus and not necess and also wave the rules that you have that discretion uh within your authority. Again, as I've counseledled before, it always goes back to reasonleness and not acting arbitrarily and being consistent or as consistent as you can be. So that's um that's always there though.

Further questions? Council member Singh.

Yeah, just a couple of pieces. One is um uh by and large I am supportive of all the changes. I think recognizing that you know we do have um a community in crisis and uh we have a date listed of July 1 for it to be enacted. What about if we said September 1? um at that I'm saying September one cuz I think the state police had mentioned they would you know potentially have a report or referral at that time um in August. So just a thought uh for consideration and um

can I respond to that? I'll kick that back to Yeah, I think uh if there's I think by design you were proposing um to delay this until July 1st. We only have two meetings after that until September 1st. So I don't think it does any damage to go a little deeper uh into the year to make it effective if um a council member feels that that's appropriate. So So what we could do when it comes around to making a motion is make the motion and then propose an amendment. Mr. Whan, you had a comment.

Two uh actually several points. First of all, this this came about in my first week as a council member at a Michigan Municipal League conference. Um there was approximately 100 people in the room and almost unanimously it was a threeinut um discussion and I want more public comments rather than less. I really want to hear from everyone from the community that is available and around. Um I think sometimes the length of time it takes for someone to stay on the phone or to stay in the room is preventative. So I think the answer is I want more speech rather than less. And I think that possibly atones this situation. Um, also I do appreciate uh a well-run meeting where whoever is speaking, whether it is someone at the podium or someone on the council, they'd have the get the respect in the room that they can be listened to. Um, so I think these these issues address those things. Um, I'm not concerned about the exact date. I think it is um I think I know my value is and I'm assuming that is ours is that we want more speech not less and we want to hear the perspectives from the community on issues and I welcome that and I applaud that in a meeting in the context of decorum and respect that we can do that. I think that um some of the concerns about a heavy-handed situation I think we can

trust um the process and when there is a concern that people can be redirected and deescalated and encouraged to for decor. Yeah, I I'm the lone wolf, I guess, here, unfortunately. And I respect you guys's stance. I think the five minutes is um what I've always known and I don't see a good enough reason outside of some of the different things that we talked about previously about changing that. I think the earlier times um was a good compromise in relation to that. And um you know as as this is I that's my my my make or break um just to the second part of the sergeant-at-arms and that um is I think you said this already but is is that written in most municipalities in their charter and their rules when it comes to having someone designated uh um to remove people because of disordered on that.

Uh yeah, I'm not I I'm not going to say that the term sergeant-at-arms is used everywhere or even still common place, but it is in the city charter. And I know that it does exist in some other communities. Regardless, many other communities would refer to um uh public safety officers or police officers to assist with enforcement. Um and uh a lot of times that comes with and should come with instruction to um any such individual to exercise the deescalation efforts. Uh cuz a lot of times if it rises to that level, emotions are high. Uh and um um so that sort of instruction to uh the if a scenario plays out, it would often involve uh the mayor uh first having provided the individual an opportunity to come to order and to come into compliance with the rules, letting them know, look, you're outside the bounds of the rules. You need to come to order. We have rules and you're not abiding by them. And if that if the individual fails to comply and come to order and continue with their presentation or continue sitting in an orderly manner in the meeting, uh then nothing happens. If they don't, then the mayor's next step would be to we're going to take a moment here. I'm going to ask that we receive some assistance with uh you know the the public uh safety officers in the meeting room to assist escorting the individual out. They are out of order. They've been declared out of order and they have not come to order and asked them to be escorted uh from the room. I would

encourage an opportunity for the officer to be able to attempt to deescalate the situation um and and bring calm back such that it it can be an orderly manner of addressing that situation. uh not immediately going to physical um contact uh as the first resort and that that I think as I understand it is the the normal method that would be used um in such situations.

Okay. Uh thank you. Um yeah, I just generally speaking to the atmosphere and some of the different things with the clapping and the cheering. Um, you know, you know, that's fine if you know that's I I I I believe you've done a great job managing that. And um I think with the amount of minutes that have been before us, those minutes of disruption have been very minimal overall. Um uncomfortable. We can we can talk about that. But um but yeah, I I just I'm I'm just not here. I don't know. I you know, so I those are my thoughts.

Further questions, Mr. Meadows. Mr. Whan,

my last point is that we we make these in sometimes very large decisions at 11:30, midnight. And I think that um again my argument for more people being able to speak is I think people more people could come to speak if it's a little bit less time. But I agree. I think I think there I love I do appreciate how there has been some flexibility. I think there's some encouragement when I think tonight I thought this meeting was very well taken care of. I think when there is a name read right away, I think a lot of people say, "Who is that next person?" So, I think we're heading in the right direction with this thing. Um, but I I really value a community that people are willing to come out and we're we're so approachable. I think that we have people from outside of East Lancing that want to come also. So, I appreciate that. And I appreciate also um Mayor Prom for your view also. Mr. Meadows.

Uh just uh a couple of things. One, um you know, I have a little pride of authorship on the five-minute rule. U when we didn't have any rules, uh adopted by council when I was elected and myself and Dennis Mcetti put together the original package of rules. So there was no magic to the five minutes because the rules provided that the mayor at the beginning of the meeting would say to the public who were going to approach the microphone to please keep it to 5 minutes or less. That was the specific language. But I think over a period of time, most of the units of government that I've dealt with have had a threeminute rule uh established. And it probably is sufficient under uh most circumstances for three minutes to to handle anything that anybody has to say. I think the one thing that I would say might be missing here is the ability of the mayor to allow a longer period of time in certain circumstances. And I want to make sure that we have that authority or the mayor has that authority uh going forward if we adopt these rules. In other words, it seems to be set in stone, but can the mayor allow a longer period of time in certain circumstances? There may be somebody at the microphone who's making a very good point and in the middle we would be cutting them off and I want to make sure that there's an opportunity to allow a little extra time at certain certain times. Let me let me let me finish because I want to also indicate that um I think that it it isn't it's it's sort of like the the 25% versus the 10%. There's no magic

to it, but we want to make sure that people at the microphone have an adequate period of time to actually address us, provide their ideas or their criticisms. and I just don't want that I don't want that ended. You know, that's a very important part of our work. So, Mr. Topic,

yes, thank you. Uh I I do see some um rules of procedures in other cities that have a specific provision that allow an extension of the time by vote of council. Uh the rules don't include that, but I don't think they exclude the opportunity for two things. First, the mayor if a person reaches their three minutes uh in our mids sentence or midthought to politely ask the individual could you your time is expired could you quickly wrap up and finish your comments and or or you know your time is expired and allow a a short grace period before you know cutting you know taking any action to discontinue the presentation. Option two um would be if if um with the consensus of council, you know, turn say, you know, under some circumstances, um you know, I'm not sure what those circumstances would be, but maybe turn to council and say, I'd like to provide a short additional period of time to this speaker. Is that okay with council and with your consensus? It's your rules. If you all are under agree that to provide that certain individual some additional time for some reason, um I think that's fine. Um I think it's something to be um cautious about doing uh in terms of making sure you have a good reason to do it. uh because if it becomes a common practice, then you get a situation of well, if you say no to one person and yes to the others and there's no reason for it between the two, then we're back to what I was talking about earlier of unreasonable or arbitrary enforcement of your own rules. So you kind of tread in an area a little bit there that you

really do need to be careful and and not it it it only do it in very specific reason for good reasons and specific circumstances. Be judicious in how you apply any sort of consensus like that.

Okay. And if I can this I promise this will be my last question. Given uh the provisions in 4.7 FNG, do we really need to have in our rules anything about the sergeant-at-arms and the ability of the mayor to ask the sergeant-at-arms to to remove somebody who might be disruptive? I you know I really haven't taken a close look at the the uh FNG to evaluate that. Um I don't think it hurts to have it in your rules so that it's more accessible and you know consistent with your charter and provides some more detail about it and shows it implemented in your rules. Um, so I think it can only help you. Uh, that's without really doing a thorough, you know, comparison side by side to see what the effect might be if you're if you were to remove those provisions, but I can certainly report back to council if you would like me to on that issue if it's important to you.

So, I want to speak to that issue. Um, F says the council shall determine its own rules and order of business. And I believe that the council and in G it says the council may enforce orderly conduct at any meeting. So the authority is in the body, right? the authorities in the body. And I mean, I've spent a lot of time thinking about eventualities. And uh I think we've been fortunate that the meetings have been I think the discourse, as I've said before, has been u well within bounds. I'm concerned about the unanticipated eventuality. That's what I'm concerned about and have been for some time, for over half a year actually. And I think that it's appropriate for the body to enforce orderly conduct at any meeting. Um, but there are potentially timing issues where we might not have the opportunity to have a vote on how to proceed on something. And that's where I frankly have been looking for more guidance from our policies because I don't feel that we have enough in our current policy resolution. I I'm doing my best to follow our resolution as it's laid out. Um, and I will tell you that I don't anticipate anything changing about how these meetings are run in the future under under these proposed rules. Um, but I would feel better having a written policy that tells me what to do and that's why I think that this is important. Were there Mr. Joffic? I I if I can I I was listening to you while I looked, but I did look at the at the charter um and

had a chance to to notice a couple things that that are I think are responsive to your question, Council Member Meadows. And and as I look at F and G in 4.7 of the charter, it just says the council may enforce orderly conduct at any meeting. It doesn't say how. And these rules have some detail about how for the first time. And so if anything, it helps explain that so you have less um you know, you have more direction and what to do and f you know, Mayor Alman and future mayors will have that direction in these rules. Okay. It says I that the council may enforce an orderly conduct, but who on council? Well, in your rules that are proposed, it identifies the mayor as the one or if the mayor prom is there, it's the mayor prom is the one who does what the charter says for council. Um, so you provide that detail of how to do it. Um, and um, it it just says you can determine your own rules in order. It doesn't say what they contain. So you're basically taking the general language in the charter and you're filling in the details of how it's implemented.

Council member Singh. Yeah. I have a motion uh to defer this uh issue until the first business meeting in September. Uh moved by Singh. I'll second it. Second by Griggsby. So the idea is to adopt the to move the entire POS policy resolution to September. Okay. Any discussion of that motion? Mr. Whan,

I am more comfortable I think making the decision now and then implementing in December or se September. Um, and then my other side thought is what if we did not do a 30- second warn. If we did adopt this, we would not do the 30 second warning, but more when it hits the 3 minutes say your time is up and then that naturally would have that person if they need to finish out that last sentence. Otherwise that at two and a half minutes that's pretty quick to they're gonna get usually people get and get their thoughts interrupted then and everyone's kind of watching their minutes and I think people can see the minutes too but I would rather take care of this tonight rather than taking care of it at 11:30 on September 1st.

Further questions Mr. Yeah, I I I'm you know, I don't have any problem with delaying the implementation of the 3minut rule to September 1st, but we've had a long conversation this evening and I'm I'm ready to vote on it. So, okay. Any further discussion of the motion to postpone? Okay. Uh roll call vote, please. Council member Whan. Oh, I'm sorry. Hang on. We're voting for the postponement. We're voting on the postponement, the motion to postpone. Okay. Thank you, Senator. Please proceed. Thank you. Okay. Council member Whan, I'll vote first. No. Council member Meadows, no. Council member Singh,

yes. Mayor Pro Tim Griggsby, yes. Mayor Alman, no. Uh, that motion fails. Are there any further motions? I'm ready to make a motion. All right. I'm not sure there's a proposed motion on this. Is there?

There is. Yeah. It's under the recommendation in the air. I didn't see it. I see it. I like I'd like to make a motion. Commotion to adopt the policy resolution establishing amended and restated rules and procedures for the city council meetings, resolutions, city council agendas, mayoral responsibilities, and council member authority. Motion by Whan, second by I'll second it. Second by Meadows. I do have a an additional change to that.

Okay. uh an amendment which would be to delay the implementation of the 3minut rule to September 1st, 2026. So that would be to modify the current date of July 1st correct to be September I accept 1st. Um are there any objections to adopting mayor or council member Meadows? It's late at night. Uh amendment to September 1st. Are there any objections? Mr. topic.

Not an objection, just an observation. The current ordinance in your packet says it's it would be effective July 1, uh, 2026, and that would be the whole resolution wouldn't be effective until that date. Um, is the prop I I have a question, I suppose. is the proposed amendment to the motion to uh add to that effective date uh that the that the resolution will be effective July 1st, 2026 and the provision regarding the 3minut rule will be effective on September 1st. Correct. Is that the motion? That was my motion. Okay, that is the motion. So

I accept that. All right. So the effective date is July 1st except for the 3minut requirement which is September 1st. Any objections to that amendment uh okay so that is the motion. Any further discussion of that motion? Mr. Wellen, you look quizzical. I I'm I'm reading a facial expression. Council member saying you sorry any sorry this is what we do.

Okay. All right. I do not want to interfere with that communication. All right. Um any further discussion of the motion? Okay. Uh roll call vote please. Council member Whan. Yes. Council member Meadows. Yes. Council member Singh. Yes. Mayor Prom Griggsby. No. Mayor Alman.

Yes. Uh the motion carries and that resolution is adopted. Um I would like to ask before we move to the next item whether we can develop a communications plan concerning the time the change in the time per speaker uh at some point before that becomes effective. And I would also like to suggest uh other jurisdictions if you Google their guidelines for public comment, they have a web page that specifies guidelines. And if we could develop uh a similar sort of web page for us as well, I think that would be useful.

May I add to that, please? And with our meeting changes, I think even getting the information rather than just be on our website, if we can get it out that we have changed the meetings to be earlier and when I know we didn't know about special um when there's a special close session, but um just that we're getting as much communication out there as possible for the times of our meetings. And I've had several people call me today saying, "What time is the meeting tonight?"

And I think what's the change? We I think we need to be as consistent as possible. I know the ordinance says up no later than 7:00, so we're following the rule, but I just want to make sure people can know when to come to our meetings. And my understanding is that we will have an announcement in the print version of the dialogue concerning the new times. Um, could we add, is it too late to add something concerning September 1st as a switch from 5 minutes to three minutes? It's not too late.

Okay. I think that would be helpful. Appreciate that. All right. Thank you. All right. Um, that brings us to item 6.8, 8 which is consideration of Dickinson Wright PLLC request for attorney conflict limited waiver. Um Mr. Jopek.

Yes. Uh thank you Mr. Mayor. Uh we have uh received a request from uh attorney Nolan Moody of Dickinson Wright who's present here uh in attendance uh has been here for the meeting uh and uh has submitted a request uh to city council. Dickinson Wright does serve city as bond council. Um and uh they are requesting a limited waiver of a conflict of interest to enable them to represent the state news uh before city council in city council proceedings only um relative to the u uh development uh known as the Howard that is likely to be well it's presently before the planning commission and could become a matter before city council. in order to do that as as an attorney um has to identif Dickinson right has identified the conflict of interest notified you of that as is their duty under the ethical rules uh and is requesting a limited waiver only to the extent that it would enable them to appear uh before the city and its planning commission and other bodies rel if if any other bodies consider the um this particular proposal if uh their client, the state news, decides that litigation or any adversarial action and any administrative body or whatnot beyond the city is is desirable to them. Dickinson writes waiver of the conflict of interest would no longer apply. Uh and they would, I understand, cease to represent the state news at that time or uh notify you otherwise. And if you have any questions, um, uh,

Mr. Moody is present as I mentioned. Questions for Mr. Jopic or Mr. Moody? I just have Mr. Question. So, for the city attorney, do you have any issues or concerns about this?

I do not given the limited nature. First of all, um Dickinson Wright is not obviously general counsel to the city. They serve on a limited basis to the city as its bond council only. This project uh would not involve any bond related issues as far as I understand it. And um the waiver being requested uh is limited as I mentioned would not involve any litigation against the city or other uh adversarial type proceedings against the city. It would be limited to just appearing before these bodies, assisting the state news in presenting their objections uh and otherwise advising the state news as their attorney relative to that single matter. So I I don't see any issues under those circumstances as they've been presented. I think I've represented them accurately. See Mr. Moody is nodding his head. Yes. So uh with all that I Yeah, I don't see any issue. I know we talked about it um uh internally as well in terms of whether it would create any issues administratively um uh through Mr. Bellman and everything they have going on with bond counsel and I I don't want to speak for you.

I'm good with the uh requested waiver being approved. Any further questions, Mr. Griggsby? No, I'm just going to lean in on to his position. Okay. All right. Can I make a motion?

Yes, please. Mr. I move to approve Dickinson Wright PLLC's request for a limited conflict waiver and consent to DW's representation of the state news with regard to proceedings before the city regarding the special use permit and site plan proposal for the Howard located at 401421 427 East Grand River Avenue with the understanding that the waiver is limited to the city proceedings and does not include Dickerson White, PLLC representing the state news with regard to any litigation and adverse proceeding against the city or any city officials, employees or representatives and to authorize Mayor Alman to sign the limited waiver letter provided by Dick son Wright PLLC for this purpose.

Motion by Whan. Second. Second by Griggsby. Any further discussion? All those in favor say I. I. I. That motion carries. And that limited conflict waiver is approved. Thank you for sticking with us. I move to adjurnn. Uh motion to adjurnn by Singh. Is there a second? Second. Second by Griggsby. All those in favor say I. I. I. We are adjourned. Thank you all.