Parks & Recreation Commission - Regular Meeting

Now I feel like I've got to follow up on that. [laughter] All right. Uh looks like we're at 6:00. So I will go ahead and call the November 24th, 2025 Parks and Rec Commission meeting to order. Um and we'll start with public comment. Uh looks like we don't have any public comment in the in the queue. So, we will go ahead and close public comment and move to reported commissioners. Let's go ahead and start. You want to start on your end, Michelle?

Sure. I would just like to um say I'm very pleased to see the sidewalk entrance at the Cascade um point of entry into Manhattan Park. I'm very very happy to see like I think that's going to provide a safe way uh for folks that are walking and using the new sidewalk to access the park. Awesome. Um, I'm happy to see the lights working now at the [laughter] in the parking lot and at the in the exterior of the restroom building, the new restroom building in Manhattan Park. So, thanks Derek.

Uh, nothing from me, but um I just appreciate this time of the year where um the city puts out the lights and make everything magical down in gas light. So, looking forward to to that. I will uh follow along with the lighting um theme here and say, is there anything we can do uh for the dog park as the it starts to get dark so early? I'm watching people getting out of work at 5 and the dog park was packed um in the dark, which is great. And I know we're trying to probably limit the hours somewhat based on like park. I don't know how the pow if it does it say that they're like till sunrise to sunset sort of thing or is there like a till 700 p.m. on that sign? I don't remember how we phrased it.

I I don't recall off the top of my head either, but for most of our other spaces we say until 10:00 so that wouldn't be abnormal for us if we found a solution to allow for it to be open later. Yeah, this time of year. I mean, it doesn't have to be anything crazy or but just maybe something to accommodate them a little bit on these months where it's uh still warm but dark. Sure. I I can look into that and report back next month. And then uh just for me, I know uh Dererick will probably mention it a little bit in your report, but I saw the uh the pictures looked really good on the um the Remington Park uh sidewalk upgrades, which is really cool. I've spent a lot of time there, so it's cool to see those sidewalk upgrades there. Yeah.

Um, I've been to the dog park quite a bit recently and just wanted to recognize that the mud situation [clears throat] has decreased dramatically and I don't know who is in charge of that magic, but thank you so much because my dog is not a muddy mess anymore. Maybe it's the weather. I'm not sure, but looks much better. So, thank you. Good. Um, since our last meeting, my two-year-old daughter finished her Tiny Toes dance class. [laughter] I just want to thank the city for having things even for our littlest residents. Um it was a great program. She enjoyed it and the teacher was phenomenal. So signed up again for January.

Um and then on the note of the lighting just looking obviously this is looking forward not retrospective but looking forward to this weekend the gobble wobble and the tree lighting ceremony. That's always really fun events. Our kids look forward to it. We look forward to it. And it's just a great time of year to be in gas light. I have nothing to report. I um want to say, wow, the fields look really good that we've worked on at the middle school. Is that a bigger E than it's been? It looks like it is. The E in the middle of the field.

It's probably my old eyes. It's just jumps out and it's great. And I not sure if we're quite done at Lakeside, but things I know we're progressing. And if you walk by the middle school, drive by the middle school, that field looks beautiful. Uh about to get covered up with snow tomorrow. But uh and I always mention it, you know, fall sports just finished. The swim team were state champs again, which is absolutely phenomenal. Football team had a great year. And um we were second by eight points, which in cross country is about one person, 5 seconds, and uh you win the meet. That's how close that is. So we did great, but um

sometimes you're second, you know. But anyway, fall sports wrapped up and it was really a very successful I think crew team I saw some stuff they're doing well. I mean, just all the way around. SW sailing team, you know, did well. I I hate I hope I didn't forget anybody. Volleyball. Field hockey did well. Field hockey. So, a a lot of good sports, too. District champs, I think. Yeah, they were. Soccer.

Yeah, they were. And and beat the number one team in the state, I believe, on the way. So, fall sports at East continue to go, which is, you know, it's a sidebar of what we do. we get our kids active in this program and um then it pays off and uh I know um you know our uh coach our football coach is working hard on aligning the program. I appreciate that.

All right. So I think ne next on our agenda is the approval of our last meeting's minutes and this meeting was the since we didn't have a meeting now in October this was the September 22nd 2025 set of minutes. Do we have any comments corrections questions? I'll make a motion to approve.

Move to approve. Excellent. Do I have a second? I'll second. Any further discussion on that? Hearing no further discussion, the minutes from the 2020 or September 22nd, 2025 meeting, that motion passes. Those are approved. Great. And then next we have it looks like we have three events that we're looking for approval on. Right Derek?

That that is correct Patrick. We do have three um events. Um and I know sometimes we say let's take them all in one or sometimes take them individually. And I I think tonight might be a good opportunity to take them individually um and and vote individually, especially with um the the third one being a new to all of you uh conversation turn not new to all of us.

Yes. Um so if if if that's okay, I would start with the um discussion um related to the riata. Um so included within your pocket um as and and again just u for some of the folks that are u might be a little bit newer to the parks and recreation commission um anytime a a special event um comes up for either renewal or a new event comes before uh staff. Um we uh we work with the event organizer to uh fill out the appropriate pay paperwork and then u you know to talk about uh lessons learned from uh previous years or if any sort of adjustments need to be made. Um and then it comes before all of you for uh review and potential approval. Um we do have a special events policy that um outlines the the number of events that we're allowed to have per year and also how we have a a twoe event uh per month limit um to make sure that um you know we're having finding that balance of keeping our public spaces open and programmed. Um and a copy of that is included in the uh the agenda or the agenda packet for tonight. Um just to help with your um just kind of overall um thought process related to events. Um and then also we always do just include the special event calendar just to kind of give you that sense of like how busy the um the current year is. And then um t typically the um you know we're renewing the calendar. So the 2025 special events calendar that you have in your pocket um that has all the approved events um will look relatively similar for 2026. We just haven't gotten to those all of those approvals yet um for um you know because we kind of do them on a cyclical basis. Um but so the riata for 2025 was completed earlier this year and they um are happy to uh come back again uh next fall. Um, this is a September event that takes place on the lake and then also in John Collins Park. Um, I'm sure many of you have either uh

been there yourselves or seen photos, etc. It's a very um a busy day for the middle school and um and the um the staff there along with all the volunteers. Um they uh you know they're building cardboard uh boats for this riata. And uh then they have um dozens of volunteers to assist with uh safety and just making the event go off without a hitch and u making sure everyone's having a fun day. Um you may recall this year the event was moved to the the high school pool just due to some of that um you know that cyclical um turnover of the lake and there was just a little bit more of that algae in the water. But um I I think having an um an opportunity like that to to pivot and work with our partners at the school. I don't know if anyone here I'm trying to remember if I saw anyone there here that day. Um but it really um was a successful event despite the last minute change. Um but they um they really love being out at John Collins Park and and on the water and so are are requesting to come back again uh for 2026. So happy to answer any questions uh you might have about the middle school riata.

It's a great event. Yep. Great. Long-standing event, right? So, uh all right. If there are no questions on that one, I suppose we can move for Do I have a motion for approving that? So, moved. Second. Motion and second. Excellent. Any discussion? Any further discussion? No further discussion. Motion passes. Or I guess we should. All in favor say I. I. Just that piece of it. Sorry guys. [laughter] Motion passes.

Okay. And then next um before you this evening is the 2026 Gaslight Village Criterium application. Um I I will put the um the map here um for us to to reference as we're talking about the event. Um so this is another event that does have a history in East Grand Rapids um that um prior to 2020 there um there was a duration of time where the criterium event was taking place in East Grand Rapids. Um there was a couple of years where um they had uh taken off and um last year um the the group um reorganized and um was able to bring their first uh returning um criterium to Gaslight Village uh last August. Um they have um applied to return again in 2026 as as outlined in the application materials. Um this is an event that is a bike race that utilizes this course. So essentially um they are like circling the the high school campus. So the the yellow portion here as outlined is uh the the race course that has various uh races that go on throughout the course of the day. Um with last year being the the first time in recent history the event was taking place. Um, I did take the opportunity to to kind of hang out for the day and to um to kind of see how an event like this unfolds in Gaslight Village in East Grand Rapids. Um, and then following the um the event um we did have a post-race debrief uh with the race organizer who is here today um in case um you have any questions. Um and just some of my first impressions were that it was a really wellorganized event. um they really um did their due diligence in trying to contact property owners on the raceourse as best they could to communicate road closures, things of that nature. Um in our post-race debrief, we did talk about some opportunities uh to kind of beef up

some areas of um just areas of opportunity for improvement. So maybe some harder road closures in some areas or having some additional volunteers in some uh places. um and all with just safety um um at the forefront. Um and so um I'm happy to talk through any questions you might have, but um based on the uh performance of LA, um the event this year combined with some of the conversations for just improving the the event. Um staff is comfortable with uh the event returning um but would um happy to answer any questions you have. And again, uh the event organizer is here if you have any specific questions of of Ryan. So I have one. Um, were numbers down just a touch over like years ago?

And would you would you mind coming up just for the microphone purposes for um YouTube TV? Um, I would say probably so. Um, just being the first returning year of it. Um, I don't know offhand what numbers were historically. I believe 2018 was the last year that the or the the year prior to 2025 when we renewed this event that it took place. Um but in 25 we had about 175 participants um throughout the day [cough and clears throat] um including um the addition of a hand cycle event um during the day. Um so yeah,

I'm I'm fully supportive of it. I just think if those of us that were around a few years ago, it was pretty big deal. It was great. I mean, really big. I don't know what you call your packs of cyclists together, but um yeah, just like Bob Pelaton of people.

Pelaton. Yes, I should watch. Yeah. [laughter] Anyway, um so just just me being out and about looking looked a little bit lighter when we restart things. That's part of the deal. You know what I mean? You grow. Um, but I don't know if other folks have witnessed it five, seven years ago. It was a big deal. It was a mustgo event, I think, for a lot of fe people because the numbers were phenomenal. They were great. So, love it. Bring it back. Are there any concerns? Would the high school construction start by August? Absolutely. June.

Yes. Yeah. The um the high school construction will certainly be underway at that point. the um construction is tenatively scheduled to begin like as soon as school gets out um in June. Um and so that would be um an impact. I do know with this event um you know um taking place like in early August m that would u maybe be a little bit before like the busyiness of school kind of restarting and um I'm looking to Ryan to remember um was it later in August last year if I'm remembering correctly? Correct. We were uh August 23rd or 24th last year. Um it would be in session and we're moving up to August we're are requesting August 2nd for this year for 2026.

There won't be the parking lot at the high school that you know what I mean? That's one thing that won't be available. I can't imagine. Um so that's like the only thing that off top my head that I can think of would be a problem. Does this event block off the um entrance to the yacht club and will that affect any of the riatas or anything going on that day?

So um the the raceourse does um block off the um access to the to the club. However, the the great volunteers that they have um stationed at that corner. Um even this past year it it did as well and they worked to collaborate with um as people needed to come and go they facilitated that when the um it was a safe moment on the raceourse. Um so that didn't have um any closure or negative impact other than maybe folks having to wait a couple extra moments to go in or out. They just take a right and then head down in front of the park and get out. That's be the quickest way out. Sure. So if they're leaving the uh Yeah. would head north on

right. So then you're not going against bike traffic anyway, so that'd be safer. But they did um and that was something that um I believe that corner had some um really um the best way to put it here, they had been around for a while, the volunteers. Yes. Very experienced folks that remembered from the past that that was um um a requirement and they did it seamlessly. Great. Thanks.

I have a question that might be more of like a request for public safety is I'm on Argentina and with the increased traffic, I cars were really flying down Argentina and there's a lot more traffic than usual. Um, so I don't know if maybe we could do like some traffic calming like temporary speed bumps or something on Argentina, that area. I don't know. It just felt like people were gunning it to get around on the detour. Um, not a knock against anything, but just something to consider. would probably likely to them like saying, "Hey, this isn't my normal route, so I'm going to go a little quicker to make up time type thing." And that's something that certainly I can connect with our public safety team. Oops, I'm throwing stuff here.

Um to see what uh suggestions they might have, whether that be like having someone stationed there or potentially having um like staging a a public safely vehicle just for a presence. Um I I'll certainly um look to them for suggestions uh in that place. Thanks, Any other questions, discussion items on this one? No. Do we have a move to approve? So moved. Do we have a second?

Second. Second. Um, all in favor or any further discussion? Hearing no further discussion. All in favor? I. Any opposed? All right. Motion passes. And then third, it looks like we have the 2026 East Grand Rapids Fine Art.

Yes. So, included within your pocket is a memo related to the um the art festival permit application. Um from time to time, you'll see me write a memo for a new public event um or a special event um that maybe requires a little bit um additional explanation um or or in this case some history uh to help um everyone understand the full scope of the of the request. Um, and just in summary, as outlined in the memo, there used to be a um a fine arts fair here in East Grand Rapids. Um, it, you know, it had a um a history of being here for 54 years, which I was surprised when I started to go back and look. I I had heard about the art fair because, you know, it ended a couple years before I started, but I I I just didn't have that full um understanding of the of the history around it. Um, which does explain a little bit better now why we still five years later after there not being an art fair for five years still get calls to this day uh to the parks and recck department and to the city of people asking uh when's that art fair going to be scheduled or did we miss it and um we said yes for the last 5 years you've missed it because it um it hasn't been back since 2020 um as outlined in the memo that um of course the 2020 um year was cancelled due to co and I think just losing that moment momentum um combined with some of the volunteers that really uh helped keep that event going um maybe moving on or or um finding alternate uh ways to give back to the community. Um they kind of lost that support system. And so um for a couple of years we didn't have an art event in East Grand Rapids. Um, as outlined in the memo two years ago, um, we did start a partnership with Lions and Rabbits, which is a nonprofit organization, um, here in Grand Rapids, um, that, um, is in support of the arts and artists and artisans. Um, they've

helped the city through a variety of things. Um, you may recall the the storm drain art, um, that was, um, painted throughout town. Uh, Lions and Rabbits had a hand in in establishing that. And then of course the after dark uh party which has been um funded by the East Grand Rapids Community Foundation um with this um kind of with it the idea of um that event would help support Gaslight Village and create community opportunities etc. Um following the event this year that um in year two um we met with the event organizer and she was sharing some feedback that she was hearing in the artist community and um she um it was interesting. and she said, "You guys really need like a multi-day like art fair. That's what I'm hearing that um people are asking for." Uh well, here we are um six months later. Um I was contacted by the Ann Arbor Guild of Artisan Artisans um who were looking at um adding an additional art fair to their um to their [cough] annual calendar. [clears throat] Um and they were coming to Grand Rapids to research some um areas potential uh for their uh for their event. um and they kept hearing um you need to go check out East Grand Rapids. So I did I gave them a tour a couple of weeks ago um and they u and here we are. They've um committed um submitted an application to have an art fair in the June of 2026. Um just a couple of things to point out. Um you just heard me talk about the um after dark um special event that was meant for artists and artisans. Um I did touch on this in the memo. Um both the uh the Guild of Artists and Artisans from Ann Arbor and the Lions and Rabbits group have both have both said that they'd be happy to uh potentially collaborate um to put on this event. Um the the guild didn't um they weren't necessarily looking to replace an event.

Um but because of our special event policy that limits the number of special events to two per month, um it um the kind of the policy outlines that uh really we should be looking at um one event over the other. But in this scenario, as outlined, the um both organizers have said, "Hey, we're willing to work together and um utilize each other's strengths." Um so that that would be um one opportunity for this event. Um but the um the main reason why I wrote the memo and wanted to have a little bit more dialogue um with the commission here this evening is as as you might have noticed um the request is for a three-day event um and uh typically we are issuing permits for for one-day events. Um the reason for the request for for three days is um this really fits the model of of what most of the art fairs that this group is putting on elsewhere and um like in Brighton and Ann Arbor and on the east side of the state. um they have noticed that they really can draw people in for the weekend or maybe for multi-day um opportunities not only from a visitor or from a shopper but also from the um the artists and artisans wanting to come in and um really make it worth their effort to come put on put on a big show. Um, and so the their request does um does include uh shutting down Wealthy Street in Gaslight Village uh for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Um, and I apologize, I just realized this map was printed in u black and white. Um, so it's a little bit harder to see, but some of the um you'll see the white boxes on here. These are all vendor booths that they um are proposing to have lining this uh wealthy street. Um effectively the same footprint as the um harvest festival. So from the Chase Bank

uh to the DNW entrance, which uh limits um the disruption of road closures and um still allows for uh the Rapid to run and pick up um and and drop off their riders. um but it's um for three days instead of one. Um so I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about the event, but really wanted to highlight and and focus some conversation on that request to have a 3-day event over the um the normal 1-day event. Um there's a couple of other points to um to bring up um in the application um that one of the things that we were trying to target down is um like how busy would this event actually be? Um they um were trying to be conservative in their estimates. They they mentioned, you know, approximately 5,000 spectators. Um I'm told that the art um closine art uh fair in the past um would have closer to 6 7 8,000 people. Uh so I think their numbers are conservative here, especially in comparing with some of the numbers they see on the east side of the state with um some of their larger scale events. um they simply put they have a following and and people um do go across the state to um to shop their their art fairs. Um the other thing I I'll note is that um this is a relatively um recent application. I forget when they um it's been a quick turnaround. So they uh came and toured the city with me. I think it was two weeks ago and then they worked kind of talked as a team and submitted this application. Um, I did have a chance to bring it up at the GVBA at their most recent meeting um, last week um, to let them know that this was coming up for discussion and if they had strong feelings either way um, either in support or against to shoot me an email to let me know. Um, certainly that's not a full representation of Gas Lake Village. That's just the businesses that are more active. Um, and and so there's

a couple restaurants and a couple of shops etc. I've only heard uh feedback from uh one um and it was actually from a non-B business owner just um highlighting that these events, multi-day events um can sometimes, you know, take over a community effectively um but um they weren't um quite sure how that would work in ease, but there so I haven't heard any direct either yes, we really want this or no, we really don't want this from the business community. Um, but happy to answer any questions you have or or talk through um any of um the requests either that they have written or maybe some things you have that aren't outlined in their application.

Being it's redundant that I'm the history guy here, but um two things. One, this is what it looked like when we were full-fledged. This was East Grand Rapids. It was that crowded. It also went all the way, it didn't stop at Chase Bank. there were double lines all the way down to Lakeside. It was more on this end and it still went way down there, but um and I don't know if that makes a difference to the layout, but it used to go all the way cuz to me it doesn't affect as many things when you get past Chase Bank towards Lakeside. If you're going to close Lakeside, close Lakeside, I guess. You know what I mean? Um, I yeah, I guess it does because you can't go to the back parking lot, you know, up to the bank, take a right, go into the famous Jade Pig lot. Um, you still can get to it by going the other way. But, um, yeah, those are my two points. A, it was this crowded, and B, they used more of this end. So, just if that alters anybody's thinking, good or bad. Was there any discussion about doing like we do with the harvest beer festival where we put the uh vendors in the middle and so that the traffic is towards the businesses as opposed to the other way around? Um we so we did not specifically discuss that with this group. Um for the main reason being is um for this year for the harvest festival. We actually ended up going back to this type of setup with um more items on the curb. Um in uh like in concept that seems to be like the best idea, right? To try to force the

[clears throat]

um shoppers and people that are visiting to the business storefronts instead of being in the middle of the road. Um what we found is that it's really hard to maintain um a public safety lane um when we're putting everything into the middle and then it forces you to either choose if you're going to cheat everything to the north side or everything to the south side which kind of takes away some of the reasoning for that. Um and so for the for the harvest festival we uh switched to more of this type setup and um just from the and it's not just not just for public safety but just accessibility too. And when we start having um two booths back to back and then you start to some of where some of the bumpouts are, you start to have less room for um this ingress egress or maybe if there might be people in mobility devices, etc. Um so we didn't we didn't specifically uh talk with this group about that be just because of how we switched over back over to that for the harvest festival. And um I I think maybe at some point in time if um we could um define areas where that would be permitted where the bumpouts aren't um playing an impact. Um and and al the other reason being is um some of the harvest festival folks needed electricity and it makes it a little bit harder for them with that. But but so that's just the reasons why we didn't with this group specifically.

Yeah, that's fair. In terms of for, you know, anticipating this event, it sounds like they have a really good following, which could be a positive for drawing people here potentially for the businesses. But in terms of parking itself, too, would we be advertising using the middle school lot, elementary school lots, and people could walk, you know, down or how would that, you know, message be sent out in terms of or what would suggested parking be for folks that are traveling into town, I guess?

Yes. So, I think that um if this event uh does get approved, that will be part of our follow-up discussions with the event organizers that we there absolutely needs to be a parking plan that is included on their website and and um and is um taking information from us that we're providing. Uh we do have a a map that we've put together that we've used for other events and even even for our Aquinus swim team when they're um you know every every year you get the new freshmen that don't know all the parking spots and where you should park and where you shouldn't. Um and so we utilize that map that um that shows where the um private parking areas, paid parking for the um surface lot now. And then um or just like the public lots and streets or people are able to um park on. Um that's something that we also have discussed internally of if this event does come and if it does um in year 1 shows that um the numbers would um support maybe some sort of shuttle type scenario of u like parking at u Manhattan Park or somewhere off site to shuttle people in. That would um be part of future discussions once proof of um proof of attendance uh would happen. But I think for this year certainly we would have to really um get ahead of that with the event organizers and um promoting the the areas where we really would like for parking to go.

Where are the vendors going to park? Where are these people going to park is what I'm wondering. We're not talking about 6,000 people coming, but if there's 150 200 tents, where are they going to be?

Yeah. Yeah. They'll have to be part of that parking plan. And um certainly may maybe um the on the map here you're one thing you're not seeing that we do see during the harvest festival is utilization of regata plaza. They're not showing that on the map cuz um they wanted to uh receive permission for the event in general first before starting to talk to some of the other groups. um that potentially would be part of their next discussions of if there is something they could do in this space and maybe that um maybe some um some sort of agreement could be made with that property owner for parking in their lot um from like a um like a lease type perspective but or or we'll have to work to find something off site for them

and it is a yeah to Larry's point it's a hundred vendors is what they would be bringing in which is significantly We won't have high school lot. I mean, so at the risk of being a knucklehead, would it be beneficial to have, you know, it start in front of Bodies, this is where it's closed off, and then go a little bit down, I can't think of the name of the street that there's very few businesses on next on the side of uh Trazy Charlie's and all that going uh this way and then taking it to Lakeside and opening up, if you will, this side of the map, if you will. I mean to move shift everything over because it affects less businesses.

Okay. You do have to get the people in and out of the um apartments though. But they have another entrance. Mhm. But that closes the Bagley lot for parking, doesn't it? If you It doesn't have to because you could just go down to where they still can get in and out. You know, you could go down. Sorry, I don't if they could go this way if you could help me with that, Derek. Down that way a bit. Um, and just have it around the corner. Just a different way of looking at keeping more businesses with less of us in front of them.

Do the businesses are they like wanting this as like a way to generate traffic for downtown? I um yeah I think in general so I I have the pleasure of attending most of the GVBA meetings and um generally [clears throat] speaking when there's an opportunity for us to bring in a group of people for a period of time that um you know where the assumption can be made that a portion of them will be shopping and buying food and drinks etc. Um I I would say that generally they're supportive of that. I think they um the the one thing I just don't know here again with this multi-day is then would that

drive you know would that um prohibit some people from coming into the day um into town because it's going to be too busy and would some of their regulars maybe not come but they would be replaced by a couple thousand other people. Um, but I I think that was the sense that I I I I got from the group and just in general is that they're willing to try new things and see how it goes and then um they're not uh shy about giving us feedback on um events that uh maybe don't have that impact. Um and I will say um even with all the great positive things about the after dark party, I know that that wasn't necessarily a a great busy weekend for afternoon for some of those businesses. that had good turnout. I mean, we're probably 1,500 to 2,000 people for the um after dark party. Um but it was um more so maybe people coming for that event than trying to spend the day in gaslight, which um from what I'm hearing from people that go to art fairs, that's that's more of the the plan for an art fair is you're going for the day and going to shop around and spend more time there and um um and and the businesses would benefit through that. I think this sounds really exciting. I'm always in support of a new event that you know it supports the arts. I was wondering has there been any discussion with um our like public works or like public safety because I'm assuming it's a three-day event that they're going to set it up and then they're not going to tear it down each day. So, are there any questions about security at night or what's going to happen to those booths and those, you know, art pieces or things that they're selling in those booths? Are they going to be requesting, you know, do they have security or what are they going to or does the city have carry any liability if there's vandalism, theft, etc. And then are there any uh questions about

you know um public service in terms of like are we just going to have to set up you know portaotties obviously but for so for that volume of people for an extended period of time have have we collaborated with the other departments for those questions?

Yes. So we u we meet weekly um the department heads do and so they're familiar with the event in the past and also the the request to come back. Um the just to touch on a couple of the points the um you know the event organizer they are responsible for um the um kind of the security of their space. They do have the ability to uh request from the city uh public safety staffing. So like for the criterium event um for example um they do have a public safety officer that's assigned to that event during the day and they they actually manage the um the corner at Lakeside and um well Breton and Lakeside essentially the busy corner. Um and um so that was something I did talk through the event organizer. They actually hire private security firms at all of their event locations and and so when the events close for the evening, the private security comes in and they stay overnight um because u there are um a lot of these booths do have valuable items or fragile items as well. And um they um they're quite um familiar with this process and so they do like pack it down at night but they're not picking it up. They're leaving it in place. Um and um but the security team would um handle that.

One of the big concerns of Taste of East was trash. Um and God bless you for cleaning up and picking up trash a little bit. Um and with you know four times the amount of people I know it's over days that that was concerned at Taste of East is as you know because you are helping. Um, second thing in my thought and my little brainstorm of going down is you could actually put tents up in Girkin Plaza too. Um, which again doesn't affect any businesses [clears throat] with school permission of course. Um, but if we went down that end as far as keeping more things open on the west side that direction, I don't So,

is it possible to call it sort of a pilot or kind of um give it a shot? It's really exciting and fun. I I really hope the business association is on board with this because it greatly affects and impacts them. Probably in a positive way, but you just never know, right? Um but um I mean are we required to offer it again the next year? Like I think I felt like in our policy it said something about um if they're returning event then they have the opportunity to reapply and it would would it have to look the same or can we just say like h this was a little too much for our sweet little community?

Yes. So we um you're right in the applica or in the um policy it does outline that returning events essentially have the first right of refusal is kind of how we [snorts] look at that. So, for the criterium event, um they're they're allowed to um apply just a little bit earlier before um before a new event could come in. Um and effectively, we work with them to kind of hold their spot and um within reason, of course. Um but, um we don't look at it as though it's a rubber stamp of them being allowed to come back next year. Um if especially if there are issues that we need to resolve, um I have the ability to place requirements. um or stipulations on the the permit. Um so if there were something that we noticed um if if this were to get approved um and um in this this year we noticed something we could require additional layer of [snorts] safety or whatever the case may be. um that was um actually for the criterium as well, like I noted um in my discussions is um they did a really great job year 1, but um just I just saw some things that um we'd like to do a little differently next year and um we expect our event organizers just to to work with us to resolve those um as part of the permit process. Um, so I wouldn't feel as though um approving it um this year if if that were the main concern of of saying, "Well, if we do it now, it's um they're here in perpetuity." That's not necessarily the case. Um we're um we can work with them to make adjustments if if needed in the future.

For those that are on the um foundation, um you know, we really relied and paid for uh Lions and Rabbits to provide the volunteers, which as we all know when we put on events, the volunteers are the key, right? because we don't want to do that. And also, didn't we rename after dark because the whole thing's done. Well, I think the discussion was to rename it. Yeah. After dark because it takes place before dark and it's going after [laughter] dark. So, I think it was summerfest or something considered summer celebration. Yeah. Something along those lines.

Anyway, but volunteers. So would then who pays lions and rabbits is what I'm wondering if if that's the organization that's going to provide the volunteers or am I or or does this organization provide the volunteers cuz we won't be able to not very much.

Right. Right. So with the um so for this permit approval the um this is all um artisan artisans uh of the guild of artisan artisans from Ann Arbor who would provide the um the volunteers actually had um garbage um you know talking trash uh is uh sometimes fun with event organizers. Um so we we've talked about having a plan for that. Um the the lions and rabbits their potential involvement would be something more of like a value ad to the event. So, like we see here, they've got the um the artists and the and the booths and everything lined up. Um they plan on having music. Um but um like street performers or like a dance area or some like kids games area, something along those lines is not something that is uh normally incorporated into uh the Ann Arbor uh groups um events. But that's maybe where uh lions and rabbits could come in and do something um like later in the evening or or or whenever, but just have it be um something that would be an extra draw maybe more for kids, families, community members um um as part of the event. Um so and lions and rabbits, you know, they benefit uh from exposure and um expanding their volunteer networks through these events. Um, and so it wouldn't necessarily uh require um community foundation um funding. It could be something on a smaller scale that that's done just to add value to the the art fair event. So I guess to dovetail off that question too, I was kind of wondering, you know, in your memo, I think you mentioned kind of like three options with the lions and rabbits piece of they would be, you know, willing to collaborate best case scenario. The other option I think you mentioned that they are willing to sort of give up the date if they if they don't you know participate or collaborate. Um would there be um

would there then be would that be that that event would just be replaced or would the thought be that after dark would be sort of or summerfest would be reimagined in some different capacity as a as another event that we would have to approve. What's the So what's I guess maybe the better question is what's the have they fully fleshed out that collaboration yet or is it kind of once this event gets approved then the discussions between lions and rabbits and the artisans would take place and they would figure out amongst themselves you know what that collaboration would look like.

Yeah I think it's more of of the lattered um and part of that is just because of the kind of the quick turnaround um that we've had. Um but um I I did um we I set up a meeting with Lions and Rabbits um their their director to talk this through because certainly uh we value that partnership with Lions and Rabbits and uh didn't want them to feel like hey uh something uh new and shiny came along we're going to uh pivot directions. Um and um through that conversation, that's kind of where the options came about that you mentioned, Patrick. They um Lions and Rabbit said, "Hey, um if if this other event wants to come in, we think this is what people are asking for. It maybe better aligns with uh what uh could happen. They're they're happy to step aside if if that were the case. Um but also they'd be really happy to collaborate. And so I I think maybe to your your question is is that um it it it would potentially replace that event. uh and the after dark event may um not have fit in um to the the schedule of events for the community. Um but with the with the strong hope at least I have the strong hope that they would find a way to partner and both groups I I talked to both independently. Yes, they're both happy to um coordinate and are excited about that opportunity but no like formal commitments have been been made.

Cool. Cool. And then I guess along those lines, if if so this is the event before us, if this is approved, kind of the artisan group would lead that process or would you guys be working with the artisans and lions and rabbits or would the artisan group kind of be the lead event and lions and rabbits would be um kind of absorbed into that where you wouldn't have to be working with both teams to try to coordinate? I think we would certainly facilitate those initial discussions and um provide our um input um as city staff as to what we think how we think that collaboration would um could look like and also you know just introducing um you know connections and um and helping build those relationships. But ultimately the the guild of artists and artisans from Ann Arbor would be the permit holder. they would be the ones that um would kind of be driving the bus in that scenario.

Yeah, I guess that was that was exactly my question is like more of it would it then be streamlined as like lions and rabbits would be the partner but they would be the partner of the artisan group rather than us having to work with two separate partners on on this. Yes. Yeah, they would um I would most of my communication other than like initial introductions and brainstorming and providing opportunities would be more with the guild of artisan artisans um knowing that um they will work out whatever arrangement with lions and rabbits that they all prefer. Cool. Cool.

I would be more at ease saying yes today if there was a sense of strong support from the business owners. If we were to table this until next month to give them a chance to mle it over, [laughter] would we risk the guild uh saying, "Oh, we've got another town in time in mind. We'll we'll pull our application." Um, so you know, I wasn't even quite sure if we were going to meet this um meeting deadline just again with the the freshness of the coming and um but um we we strove to make it happen for tonight just um so we could have this discussion and I I I had the sense that that um that might be a possibility from this evening um as as far as not necessarily taking action and and having questions that you wanted answered ahead of time. Um, so I um the um the staff at the the guild from Ann Arbor um didn't indicate one way or another like hey if we don't have um approval cuz quite quite realistically this was again like two may maybe it was two and a half weeks ago now at this point that I initially met with them but it it's um it's been a quick turnaround and so um I don't believe that if it's not necessarily approved tonight um that they would pull their application um but don't have like I don't have that directly from them to say that.

Are there opportunities between now and our next meeting that that you'll have a touch point with GVBA? Um I'd have to check. I don't believe that we have another GVBA meeting. Um um just cuz around the holidays they tend to maybe skip, you know, like the December time frame,

etc. Um um but I mean of course everyone's who wants to be available via email always is. So that that could be an opportunity um if if the group um was compelled to have maybe some more specific feedback from the GVBA. Um that could be um we work closely with the the president of GBBA who could send out like a small survey or something along those lines that um that wouldn't be too much of a a burden at all. It's the threeday over three-day piece that's that gives me the most apprehension. Sure.

That seems to me like it would be wise to get that additional feedback from the GVBA if we can. And then in terms of do we I should know this. Do we have a meeting scheduled? Our next meeting would be January, right? Because we wouldn't be meeting December would put us right around between the Christmas and New Year's. Yeah, I know we do always have it on the calendar, but to your point, Patrick, sometimes it does fall in interesting 22nd. Yeah. So, this one's not as bad as it has been in years past. So, yeah, it's the Monday the 22nd of December um would be the the next scheduled meeting for this group.

I guess the concern would be not knowing if we would have a quorum then and then also um if we then move it to January, we're talking late January. Is that a time frame that the the artisans group would you know find difficult and maybe as like a third alternate [clears throat] option? Is this something that we could if we got the additional feedback from the GVBA and we kind of discussed as a group is this something we could approve over email? Um can can we do that if if we needed to? Yeah, unfortunately for the um we wouldn't be able to do it via email, but we could do a special meeting earlier in uh in December.

I guess I always think downtown gaslight looks its best and east shows its best when we have events happening down there, right? So, I would hate to put us in a position where we're turning away like an art um an art fair like this um out of an abundance of caution when it sounds like Derek has gone and talked with GVBA. It's not like he's coming back to us with them saying, "Whoa, hold on here. We have a problem with this." He got he he got a granted not a 100% approval of it, but he got kind of a this could be great.

A a willingness. Yeah. And it's not like we're locking this in for a 20-year contract. We're locking it in for a year. I guess I would support this even without every single business owner pulled on it. I'm not sure if we're going to get that over the next month anyways to try it for a year.

If it go if it turns out to not be a good event, which I I highly doubt. I have we have yet to have something go through Derek's office that hasn't turned out just splendidly. Um, but if we did have problems with it, I feel like this commission is very good at bringing in what we learned from the year before and applying [snorts] it moving forward. So, I'm I I guess I'm in support. I totally get your point about wanting to get that full commitment from all of the business owners, but seeing this as might be two months, I'd be in support of doing it, dealing with the problems as they come up [cough and clears throat] if we get any problems and then adjusting moving forward as we as we need to just so we don't lose an event like this cuz I do love when the downtown is is got stuff going on down there. Check this out Friday night.

And for context, how long did an art event run prior to 2020? Like how many years had we had in our event? Did you say 54? 54 years. And was that a multi-day event? That uh that one was not a multi-day event. That one was um yeah, more more local event. Um I think it was Grand Valley artists and artisans. Um so Okay. Thanks. Yeah. And I'll say I lived in Ann Arbor um one summer with the um and went to the Ann Arbor Art Fair and they ran a wonderful event. It was a lot of fun. Um it's in one of my children's books at home. Like it's [snorts] [laughter]

so park and wreck folks, I'm sorry, um foundation folks, we we were not going to bring back Lions and Rabbits for our event. Right. Right. We were not going to fund that again. Now, make sure I understand this because I get a little older. Um this would be the third, fourth, and fifth. We're not going to come back two days later and have another event, right? We're not going to have an after-d dark party after one day. Okay, that's the way I understood it. I just want to make sure that it's out there that we're not going to we're gonna we're going to give you a day to breathe, then we're going to lock down the streets again for you guys. How about that? No, there's no way. This has to be That's the way I understood it, right, Derek? Is that this after go away or the misnamed after dark? Yeah. Yes.

Maybe that's the opportunity. Maybe there's um later in the evening on one of these days there is an after dark opportunity. No, that could be. is already happening. Move it from the 7th to the 5th or the fourth or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So, I want to pull on the GBBA thread just a bit more. I get the sense that for other events, road closures, we bringing people in that those are are pretty strongly supported by the business association. And so if that's true, I think it is,

how much different was this conversation than prior ones with prior

similar but single day events. Um just as far as like the dialogue with them like so for example when the criterium came up um and when because that's that is when I go to the meetings if I know about a new event coming up I bring it up at the meeting and um again sometimes we might have eight um businesses in attendance and other times there might be 15 or 20. Um the this particular um most recent meeting was one of our better attended ones, but it was um you know, I would say it was relatively similar kind of outlined the the multi-day component. So I highlighted that as part of the discussion and how it would be a replacement potentially. I don't think I fully had um at that point had it flushed out that um lions and rabbits could potentially piggy back on. Um, not that I think that um, just quite frankly the business owners that they they're not necessarily going to care who's running the event or the name of the organization, but just that they're bringing people in. So, uh, I don't think that would have been a concern of of theirs. But, um, yeah, it's I I would say it was just relatively similar conversation to others that I've had in the past. And um sometimes, you know, as with any group, you have sometimes we'll have uh some folks that are more vocal about um changes or different ways of things that have happened. And it was relatively I I think what people were trying to just wrap their heads around it and think, okay, how could that um how could I make that work for me more more so than wait a minute, hang on, we I I have some concerns um from the start. Um, but so I didn't have a lot of feedback e um either way. But I I I would think from what I've learned enough about being with the GVBA meetings the last 5 years is that they're they do to Ryan's point, they have that desire to have these events and bringing people in. And it's it's not so much the event itself. It's when

people have a good time in East and want to come back again for future weekends and when they can have that exposure of four or 5,000 people that maybe aren't from East coming in and [laughter] if 5% of them come back for the weekend in the future that that's what those businesses are looking for. And I I think I think their wheels were definitely turning but um they didn't have strong opinions at that point. Okay. And from that meeting to today, like how how long has it been that folks have had a chance to send email if they have concerns?

Yeah, it would have been um a week, a little over a week. I think our meeting I think our meeting was last Monday or Tuesday, so they've had a full week and I I did get the one email, but it again it was from a non business owner, someone that just had the the past um experience. They lived in Ann Arbor as well for a period of time. So, they kind of had that sense. And I I don't think that we're talking about doing this to the same degree that Ann Arbor I think they said they had like 400,000 people go to there. [laughter] That'd be pretty incredible. That's We don't have enough parking. Yeah. Okay, that helps. Thank you. Well, you could do it like a U of M football game and sell parking spots your front yard. $50, right? Let's go. [laughter] There you go.

Let's go. We should give it a shot. And if it doesn't work out, then we can always rethink it for the next year. If we're not stuck with what what we decide tonight forever, then why not? And it's not great. That's okay. I agree. You use the word pilot program. Pilot attempt. I think that's a good way to capture it. If that's see it and if it works well and they want to make changes for the next year, it' be great.

I agree. I think it's worth the try, especially given the success of the previous art fair, even though, you know, we [clears throat] don't have the direct three-day comparison, but especially if this group has a following, that's that's impressive, too, to be able to get new [clears throat] people that maybe haven't been to East before into East. It seems like a great opportunity to do that. And we don't really often have that. So, and as far as road closure goes, this is that subset of gaslight. So we don't end up using one of our road closure credits, right? [laughter]

Sure. Yeah. Yes. So this is um wholly contained to Gaslight Village and um the reason why that's important in the past if an event were um utilized a road closure at all, it counted towards the eight per year. Um but u recently, a year ago approximately, the um this uh commission provided feedback to change that. And so now events that are contained to Gaslight Village um don't count towards that. So there would still be that credit uh that you notice to have a different event that maybe falls outside of Gaslight Village but um utilizes a road closure.

And a three-day event counts the same in our book as a one-day event. So after dark went away, right? It's not counted as three days. It's counted by the event. We It's count counted by the event permit. Um so yes in this scenario because um since we only allow two events per month um in June this event would be one and then the second event would be the uh Reeds Lake run would be the other event for June. Cool. Any more good discussion? Yeah, great discuss. Any more discussion? I think we've pretty much covered everything, right? Um so with that, do we have a motion to approve? So moved. Do we have a second? Second.

All right. Um, all in favor? I. Any opposed? Motion passes. It was so big back in the days. It was so cool. Just remember it being really hot. Yes. Like when we did the after dark, I'm like, "Oh, thank goodness." [laughter]

Like the only people that didn't like that were the Dunk Tank people. They they wanted it hotter, but Okay. So, next next item on the agenda here this evening is um I'm just requesting some feedback from the committee related to Manhattan Park um pickle ball uh courts. So, as as you may recall last spring, as we were leading up to the grand opening of the the re-imagined Manhattan Park, we had discussion here at the Parks and Recreation Commission level um related to the the pickle ball court specifically. Um and so, um prior to the redevelopment of Manhattan Park, um um the parks and recreation department does rent out pickle ball courts and also tennis courts and sport courts um throughout the community. We allow community members to reserve them on an hourly basis. Um so so for example, someone's going to have a you know family party where they want to use a baseball field or a group um of um you know neighbors wants to have a a standing reservation for a pickleball court reservation, they can do that. They can pay for a reservation to reserve their space. Um in all cases if a court's not reserved um it's open for first come first come use. Um and one of the discussions around the U Manhattan Park pickle ball courts u prior to the grand opening was um that finding that balance of if the courts were going to be available for reservation at all times, if there was going to be um some sort of um um maybe a a sense of allowing for more drop in open play and not allowing the courts to be reserved at Manhattan Park. Ultimately, the um the parks and recreation commission did decide that the the courts would be reservable. Um and and part of that came from support from staff in that um we we were um knowing how busy these courts

were going to be and and how um how many people wanted to be using them and having a reservation system sometimes can provide a little bit more structure to that. Um you can see here we um the courts opened uh right around July 18th. Um so shortly after the grand opening um and based on the usage uh data here you can see we saw very significant use uh reservations of the courts. All of these numbers are um just for reservation numbers. These are not included in anyone that would have casually dropped in to play on their own. Um and um so in addition to the high usage, we also did receive some feedback over the course of the summer. Um it it wasn't um anything. We weren't getting daily feedback or um like you know um long emails of of folks that maybe were that were upset with the the structure. Um but we did over you know over the course of the summer um probably heard from maybe 8 to 10 people with just various inputs on um the the process and and how it could be signed for reservations etc. Uh but the um one of the main things that um we um we did here throughout the summer was that it would be nice if there were one court um that was not allowed to be reserved. Um, and really, um, when that comes into play is, um, you know, for example, if I were to go up there at nine o'clock in the morning and and see a court wide open and, um, you know, get my maybe my spouse or my friends to come meet me over at the court and then, um, and and then 20 minutes later, somebody shows up for their reservation um, and unfortunately the folks that are um, dropping in to play are are bumped from utilizing that court. Um, so it wasn't something that we heard on like a daily basis, etc., But that um that seemed to be the uh kind of in um the most common um suggestion or um I guess concern complaint that we heard um and so wanted to uh because we we said that we would

we would bring it back to look at it after the season. Um now that we have a um a season of usage um you can see the you know um like on the second page of the memo like court number one definitely is the court that was reserved the most. Um, I expect that number to probably be close to double next summer when we actually have a full season of use instead of just July, August, and September. Um, but you'll you'll see that some of the other courts didn't quite get as much use. And so there potentially would be an opportunity to um without disrupting a number of reservations to um to designate one court as um drop in only or um as as evidenced by the uh the data there is a high demand for court reservations. Um and um but since we said we'd bring it back for discussion, I wanted to um to hear from all of you on on your feedback on that and what the the preferences might be of if if we continue year two with allowing reservations of all four courts um or if um consider um removing one court from the reservation system and allowing it for drop in play. Um just to highlight um like I did include tennis court rentals there. You'll notice we we don't have that same problem with any of our other rental areas, athletic fields, um tennis courts, etc. We're really just talking about pickle ball at Manhattan Park. Um and um each community does things differently and I was just hoping for some feedback. Would there be I was thinking about this earlier. Would there be any benefit to changing the window for reservation so that folks would have to reserve say 24 hours in advance so that you wouldn't end up with people, you know, going in and reserving at 7:59 [cough] and then showing up at 8 a.m. or whatever that looks like, right? Is it would there be a benefit to keeping

things the same but then just [cough] being stricter on that reservation window and closing it off you know the day before so you give staff time to update it as well too.

Yeah, we um that certainly would be an option. the um and to Patrick's point, the um so the reservations are done all online and um well, they can someone could call in um and reserve a court if they would like to, but they also have the ability to do that right online. We were able to work with our um reservation software company to to get that set up. And um it ended up being a little bit more streamlined than we had thought it could go um in the spring. We do have the ability to limit it to um so currently it's reservations can be made at any time. Uh we do have the ability to limit it to like a 24-hour in advance. So we might still have some of those um instances depending on which day of the week it is. um that um someone could um book on Friday night um and then um after you know our offices are closed and then we wouldn't have someone coming in to put up signs for Sunday morning for example. So there still could be some of that when weekends are involved. Um but um that could limit some of those specific scenarios.

Is there um is there an app that we could work with? I'm sure there's like some apps where you can find open courts so it the so the city isn't running the reservation system and maybe people can just see if courts are open and we just take reservations to that. Is that an option? Like

I'm I'm sure it is. Um we we simply we just use our reservation um software because it allows for us to like book the facility and take payment and have it be all connected to our like our daily deposits. Um but um I'm I I have to assume for sure that there's some there apps or other software out there that we could um I'm sure there it would come at a cost that we could pay for it. Um um but um I we have not researched um something separately.

So if I'm understanding this correctly, someone can look online and see whether or not the court is reserved in an hour and potentially go in and do drop and play, but then there's a risk that someone might reserve it and then they would go. Right. Right. Right. But it could be solved if they go and check and then reserve it themselves. like if you know the rental fee is like $8 or something. So people could always guarantee their spot by renting it, right?

That Yes. So um yes, they could always reserve it assuming that it's available um for the time frame that they're looking for and residents do get the discounted rate of [clears throat] I think it's like $6.40 to reserve it. And that um that scenario that you shared would be one of like probably a rare occurrence. Like for example, if you look at 8:00 and it's available for 9, like what the chances of somebody booking it before 9 are probably not super high, but it is possible. We we we try to run all the scenarios through our heads of of what could potentially happen. I think a lot of the times it's um um people that want to play that are hoping to just just to be able to show up and maybe they got to wait a half an hour for their turn. Um but they're not looking at the calendar. They're just hoping like, hey, we should be able to drop in. If the court's a there, if nobody's um has it um nobody's playing currently, we should the thought is we should be able to hop on and get our hour in before getting bumped. I think and I think that's what happens a lot of times is they're not thinking to check or maybe um and that is something that we can do in year two um do a better job of like pushing it out there where to go look as opposed to here's the here's the schedule of um what we knew was going to be booked. Um but pushing that a little more. Um but you're right there would be those scenarios where

Can I ask a financial question? It looks like by October 31st, you almost made $5,000 in rental. Correct.

Like eight plus times what you would have made in any other year. Is that a line item you're counting on? Or is this not fun money, but you know what I mean? Money that this is great because could help other programs or whatever. I I don't need to know your entire budget, but are you is there a certain amount you need to get out of rental of all your rentals to to make things go for you? We certainly um when we do our annual budget, we um we do have our like facility rentals for the community center and some of our other rental um agreements that we have with like Waves and um NFL football, etc. Um that we um we track closely but aren't necessarily relying on those revenues to um fund the Sweetheart Dance or something along those lines. Um and um actually we um we underestimated this year quite greatly actually on what we thought the reservations would be for Manhattan. And so um when we're doing our budget process for next year, it's it's really more of just trying to um show what those revenue projections could be, but um it wouldn't limit our ability to um meet our mission if if if we if that number went down. That's what I was worried about is if you know you had to have this income coming in to make things work well. Okay. Wonderful problem to have.

I was just going to say sounds like you've had minimal complaints so far. Correct. Is that what I'm hearing? So for me I would think we just kind of carry on the way we've gone before cuz uh it's just you know it doesn't seem like a problem at this point in time. I guess the way the system's been running uh as far as reservations. Yeah, I would say the the feedback that we've gotten um like I'll I'll I'll say 10 people probably over the course of the summer and of those 10 like we've heard like hey your prices are too high for reservations which I I feel like that's less than the cost of a movie um and it's usually for four people um we've heard that prices are too low um and which is always interesting to hear um but and then u so probably like 60 to 70% of the um of the feedback back included something like that. But the other thing that um I should have said this from the start is that these are not the only pickle ball courts in town. There are pickle ball courts at Wealthy Elementary, Lakeside and Brett Downs that are not dedicated pickleball courts, but to [snorts] maybe the more casual player or someone looking to be able to drop in at their convenience, those other um locations do lend for that opportunity.

Could we kind of just view this as growing pains? cuz I have a feeling that if someone makes this mistake one time, then they're probably just going to rent the court the next time. Um, and see if that number escalates for I I'd be comfortable keeping it kind of how it is as well and seeing if that if that if we just see that number escalating and more and more people getting angry about this, then of course maybe we look to adjust. But it seems to me like first year people are figuring out how the scheduling system works, figuring out how busy the courts are going to be and when. Um if you were going to get complaints for this, it would seem to me like the first year that this happened would have been the year that you would probably get the majority of them. Sure.

And and is that how the conversation went and the feedback? Here's how you do reservation [cough] like more learning curve type conversations.

Yeah, I would say it was a mix. Um, and a lot of th that feedback comes to me and and sometimes it was um folks sharing that experience, but then me being able to educate them a little bit more on either um the reservation process or where else you can go um in the meantime for um you know for dropins, all the other courts I just mentioned. Um, you know, I do I do also think that the um like some of those it is actually some of the people that do reserve as well. So like they learn the process and then there's a lot of other courts in the area that that just don't have this same process. But um and so um so I think it's just unfamiliar territory for them a little bit. But it's it's not as though our process is difficult to to learn once you go through it once and find where it is on the website. So I think it's just um maybe more so that um like they like to share what other places are doing that seem to work well, but every every area is different, right? So, and I and I do feel like of the however many hundreds of um reservations we had over the course of the summer to have 10 complaints and if only only a handful of those maybe um weren't reserved in courts, maybe that is kind of part for the course and to be expected. Um we just um anytime we had a complaint this summer um because it was so new and fresh, we let people know, hey, we're collecting feedback and we'll we'll kind of review it at the end of the year and and so we are doing our due diligence right now. Um so then if next summer we can share like, hey, we did talk it through. It was um low um low complaint basis and um a lot of positivity. Um, I think that would be an easy conversation for us to have with with folks as well as but but but also saying yes, we did talk it through and um made an informed decision.

One one thing about

website um like when you talk about pickle ball courts and there's alternatives um is it possible and there's peak hours. Is it possible to get more of that general information online so that when people are looking they're like, "Okay, the peak hours are this." So, if I want to drop in, I better go maybe not during the peak hours. Um, or if I want to drop in, I should go to these other pickle ball courts during peak hours. Like, is it possible to kind of put that online to help alleviate the issue? It it is now now that we have this great uh data to to show and we can u we can drill right in and look and see the um right on the uh schedule the times that were the busiest and um provide those suggestions of the courts that we know aren't um being utilized as much. Absolutely. We can do that. And and one perk of using our reservation system and and maybe just a couple dozen people logged in for the first time to see it is that it hopefully opens them up to all the other programs that are available and they can stumble in and see those.

Yeah,

it's exciting. I'm glad we build them. Oh, I do want to say uh the [clears throat] sound barrier fencing that is phenomenal. I was on the other side of it, no more than 20 ft away and I'm like, is someone playing pickle ball right now? It was it was pretty impressive. Thank you for sharing. Agree. Yeah, I was um you know, obviously I watched all the videos, read all the research. Um but when we were hanging it and I went and walked and stood on the property line and I could tell like where the sound was coming from and where it wasn't, it it is um I think it's doing what it was intended to do. Yes. All right.

[cough] Is this [clears throat] something we vote on or is this I don't think Yeah, I don't think we're voting on that, right? It's just feedback. Yeah, just just feedback. And I think I have the sense of of the group that we're willing to give it another try as is for the summer and we'll um we'll continue forward with that unless um we learn something um that would suggest we consider something otherwise. But um and then we'll do the same again this summer. We'll just collect data and and feedback and um see how it um goes in year the first full year. Um, which I'm excited to see where those numbers uh end up. So, got to look at as successful. That's phenomenal usage and sound issues being taken. I mean, you know, being good stewards of our neighbors and congratulations. Yep. Yeah.

All right. Well, last on the agenda that I had for you tonight was again another feedback opportunity. Um, this another I'm bringing unique uh requests to you tonight. That is the the theme here. Um, as as outlined in the memo, we do have a a naming and recognition policy that I did include in the packet. That was something that was put together last year. Um, just as we had identified in in the past, there have been a number of um, efforts or initiatives to um, you know, get different projects done with naming opportunities. This building for example being one of them. You when you look around the facility, you see like uh, commission chambers being named after um, the Meer Inc. etc. Um, and that was kind of done on a oneon um or a case by case basis. Um, but we worked with the city manager's office last year to create a policy that was approved by the city commission. Um, and outlined in that policy um there is kind of a um um at the very end there's a a recognition plaques for small items that was targeted in there. um which it does outline that you know the parks and recck department we consider requests for plaques on like public public benches, table sets. Um we do also um have some um trees throughout town that do have like a plaque on them from a named perspective. Um but I had a unique request come in that I was hoping just to get feedback from the group. Um, as outlined in the memo, we do have a waiting list for benches. And so sometimes when someone uh reaches out requesting for one, they might have different ideas. Um, and that is the case here currently. We have a a family in town that would love to uh recognized a loved one um who enjoyed um you know the Reeds like trail and the and the lake and all the things um here in East Grand Rapids um with the request to place a like a viewfinder or like um it's essentially I'm sure if you've been to like the um Niagara Falls or places

like that with good viewing opportunities, this is essentially a similar unit to that um that would provide for bird watching and other nature viewing. ing opportunities um in Waterfront Park. Um so include included within your pocket there is the memo with um kind of some of the um [clears throat] uh um details about a unit like this um and in doing research with the the family um they make units that are non-coin operated. So we're not looking to have um people plugging coins into that. it would be um just open for community use in a fixed location in Waterfront Park. Um the way that they um build these, you can adjust the viewing angles, so you can only pan so far right or so far left to avoid um as noted in the the memo, avoid direct views of maybe neighboring properties, but um to concentrate the viewing on like the open areas of of nature, etc. Um the u these units cost um between $4 and $5,000 and require some special hardware for um installation. Um and the family has indicated a willingness to uh pay and cover for the entire cost um with the u ability for them to put a memorial plaque somewhere on the uh the viewfinder. Um so just due to the unique nature of the request, you know, if it were a bench or something along those lines, I would just um work administratively. Um but just wanted to make sure um since we're placing something unique in a park to get feedback from the commission. What does the I was just curious what does the um the structure look like in terms of um is it its own like independent structure that it's sitting on or is it on like a spent piece or like what is I guess how easy is it to move if we were to need to move it

eventually to a different location or um

yeah so the answer to that is it depends um because there are different ways you can install these you And in um there um so specifically at Waterfront Park and um hopefully this is showing up bigger on your photos, but there's that overlook here that would be the um the southernmost overlook um that's has deck boards on it. Um, it [clears throat] could be affixed to deck boards um with a there'd be like a pl a plate that it would be drilled to and then those could be affixed to the deck boards or other locations they do affix it directly to concrete and so it would require for us to um put like a small concrete pad um with um just sunken into the ground a little bit just to help it. So if there were um you know any anyone trying to hang on it or anything like that, they could um the concrete would support it. And so it would require yeah just a little bit of uh digging, excavation and uh a pad to be poured. Um we're uh quite skilled here in the city of replacing sidewalk sections and um doing small scale stuff. So I don't think that would be a um um that wouldn't be a major hurdle. just um to your point, if it needed to be moved, um we'd have to just brainstorm that if we're going to rip out the concrete that was put in and and move it or uh but the deckboard option would be the the easiest, most flexible.

Cool. I think it sounds like a great idea. Be a really nice addition to that spot and a nice way to memorialize somebody. Can you talk a little bit about the viewing angle and how far how much how far someone would be able to see? Um I mean, for example, there's a newer home that went in on the lake that I'm pretty confident would not want binoculars to be able to see it. And it's a little difficult for me to picture this without being able to see like some of those homes right there.

Yeah. And I'm um sorry it's hard for me to do this and have you hear me still, but um like for are you are you referring to the homes that are more to the south here or the homes that are more like across the lake? North. More to the north. Okay. So yeah. Yeah. So the um the viewing angles what we could um limit it so they're not looking to the the south. Um the best viewing for like bird watching etc would be through this area here.

Um and so we would still want to preserve um them to be able to pan to the north to view that. Um I I think the um the viewing to the homes to the south is almost like a you know direct pathway. Um which is why those definitely would be limited. Um the ones um to like the north and to the east a little bit more. It wouldn't be like looking straight into their their home per se. So it would be more of like viewing like the shoreline on on an angle.

Okay. Um these do come in different um kind of viewing opportunities like a couple hundred feet up to a couple thousand feet um to help um help you take a look at different different things. And so I think the intention would be for it to be one of the lower scale like we don't need to be looking thousands of feet to see the birds. So have it be one of the ones that's lower. Um but um you would still be able to like see shoreline like shoreline activity but not as though like you're zooming in on someone's This is kind of your neighborhood, Ryan. Mhm. Any any

I'm not worried about the stuff that way. I I'm totally down on the stuff that's closer to those places that just got built by roses. That would be fairly intrusive. But it sounds like they can block it. I don't know. I can't see this thing being like poor vision like all the way across the lake, right? That would be you probably see more from a boat more on the northern part where there's like that newer home that went in and it's very visible and and they seem particular about security. [laughter]

I I think at least my opinion on this is as someone that also can um can be viewed from lakeside into our home in our backyard. One, you kind of sign up for it. Um, and two, uh, boats going by, crew like rowing going by, fishermen going by are all, I think, going to be a lot closer and a lot more access than this would be. That's fair. That's my thought on it. It's a good thing to think about though. Yeah.

In terms of like the location itself, I think was there an X there? So, it' be like the way I'm seeing it, it'd be like more in a corner, too. So it wouldn't be right straight on there blocking folks who wanted who you know didn't want to use the device.

Yes. So um the the intent would yeah have it be more in in the corner where um it wasn't going to block. So this unit wouldn't necessarily block views of someone just wanting to sit on the benches that are there. Also I know like you know sometimes people will go out fishing over there and not not wanting it to be something that gets in the way of another um activity. Um, I I do think that there's space there either on that boardwalk area or in proximity to that that would provide two good options for it to be kind of seamlessly put in without disrupting that space. Okay, that's good. That was my only kind of reservation there is didn't want to disrupt anybody who's not using it.

Yeah. No, we Yeah, we would place it in a um convenient location but not um something that would disrupt And I agree. I think it's a really lovely way to memorialize to a loved one. And we we actually uh were looking at the um so rent fun, our kayak reservation system, which is going really well. They've started to branch out to do other things like um having smaller scale lockers for renting pickle ball courts and they've actually started doing that with binoculars um and and so that was on our kind of on our thought process. But something like this where it's open for everyone and then you don't have to worry about credit cards and all that type stuff, it it would accomplish the same thing. So,

put a little stool or something on there so little kids can get on there without awesome job. Awesome idea. Um, and I think this was just a feedback item as well, right? So, you're not looking for and I think I think I've gotten the feedback that I need. So, next item is I think is our last item is report of director, right?

Yes. So, I I'll just touch on a couple of things here. It was was brought up. Um the the Remington project for sidewalks did get completed. that was a a joint effort um between the city and the schools. Um we were able to actually um get that project completed for a really great cost cuz we could piggy back on the uh sidewalk replacement um bid that was recently completed by our engineering team. So um kudos to them for um helping us out and getting a really great price for that. It was such a small project it would have been hard for us to even get someone willing to come in and do it. and we were able to um do it for below budget. Um as noted, the the dog park um the SAD project um took place um you know earlier this fall, late in the summer. Um and that was our first project that we've done sad with here in the um recent um history. And and um it the reason why sod sometimes you worry about it with um that it's you know you're not going to be able to water it enough and it's going to die off or it's not going to um kind of root in. Um, but you balance that between the the length of time that you need to have something closed when you're receding. Um, and we felt like at the dog park it was successful. Um, we'll likely we'll be doing a project on the small dog side now um, next year um, when we when we can u work with SAD. Um, and if anyone has been up at Manhattan Park recently, they completed that water mane project and that was one of the things we were really watching closely is when they were going to be done and um to uh preserve our spring soccer season. We were able to uh get sod placed there as well before the um the weather changed too much. Um so I think we're um going to start utilizing that as a solution not only just for um restoration purposes but when we have high wear uh from high use um the the kind of that cost benefit is um shows that um just doing a quick sod project

really um really is worth the cost. The um I forget the exact cost for the dog park but it was a couple thousand dollar and it had it looking like almost brand new again. So it was like 1,600 bucks. Yeah. Yeah. So, um that's right. You were in finance that day when we talked about it. I couldn't believe it. I wanted it for my backyard.

Um so, we'll continue um finding those opportunities there. Um and then, um tree lighting that did get brought up here. Um that's um this week Friday. Um we're expecting another great turnout. I'm again that's a GVBA event that I help um coordinate um just going to those meetings. And um this year they're going to have a couple of characters walking around. So you might see the Grinch and um Frosty the Snowman. So they're just looking at different ways to engage the community and um but that will be Friday um at 5:00. Um so hope hope to see you all there. See my wife says I'm the Grinch, but

Oh, [laughter] no costume needed. Like the other 364 days. Some of the ballet dancers that'll be performing in the Nutcracker in December will be be doing small performances at the tree lighting as well. Super cool. I had brought up the foundation, our community foundation, and there's a couple other members and we need more people. If anyone is looking for another uh fairly light commitment, but important commitment, um we could use more help on the Grand the East Grand Rapids Community Foundation. Did I speak out of turn or are you guys with me on that? No, I think that's I think you're exactly right on that, Larry. So, thanks for

Yeah. Or if you know somebody who would be really good um because we support a lot of these projects, a lot of the good projects. We're not asking for money, but I mean, [laughter] we'll take it. Sorry. Were you done there? I was done. Yeah. All right. Uh, any questions on anything Derek mentioned? No questions. All right, with that, I think we can go ahead and adjurnn as it's our last item. All right, [snorts] [laughter] out with a bang. Ice everyone.