Parks & Recreation Commission - Regular Meeting

you're like oh yeah KN that is no I'm just so you were yeah just for my senior year were good I'm just kind up to my brother sisterin-law in North Carolina with kid so we went there with for about we andity to hold a big thing about it was was I don't know the and it just turns into like what like if like oh we're going to get away how about you guys do we really want to defend something like that we've been twice sick twice Christmas going without pushing where he's just like well screw much I'm sell it to this a Florida develop he's going to build to the maximum amount allow and let a judge decide the L and Pete were very let's not do that that so we're on the safe page for that one good evening with that we'll call the meeting of the city of East Grand Rapids parks and recreation committee meeting January 27th 2025 to order are there any public comments from anyone in the audience um yeah just one I was just explaining to Derek um my name is Bill Schultz I'm a resident a long time here in East Grand Rapids over 35 years I've owned and operated business in this community for 30 years as well and uh I live right up on Lakeside Drive uh just a little bit

north of Durant Larry you might remember my son Grayson yeah ran sure yeah so you had a couple Sons yeah I did two of them cross country guys so he should know um I came here to speak just because uh not because of anything that's on your agenda at the moment for tonight but that may or probably will be at some point and that is related to the development project that's being proposed here in town uh you know living here this long it's not the first one uh we've all gone through this uh several times and maybe this will be one that actually gets something done I don't know um I'm not here to speak on that project per se but what the developer proposed in the meeting that was held a week or two ago showed a lot of drawings and maps and it included an idea of rerouting Reeds Lake Boulevard and creating park space um now that's not the first time that's been proposed um in the time I've lived here this is probably the fourth or fifth time that that's been proposed and it has been studied in the past and there's always been good reasons not to do that perhaps the developer has no clue that that's been studied in the past and I think um given who's developing it I can understand how and why that would want to be rerouted a little further away from home um but it it for me uh as a resident it would create a tremendous problem um I live just one house north of Durant okay and my driveway of course comes out onto Lakeside not on Durant if there was some kind of an intersection being put in at Durant and Lakeside and all the traffic from Reeds Lake were routed over there along with the traffic That's Heavy already on Lakeside any kind of stop there two cars if they have to stop at that intersection will now

block my driveway I can't get out and there will be more than two cars there all day long and there will be 20 at rush hour all the way back to Robinson if we had to do that perhaps when you're routing all that Reeds Lake stuff over there uh I just have a feeling at some point the developers are going to bring this to the parks and recck Department as part of their development and uh not against Parks I'm not an anti-p Park guy um but we have lots of places in East where kids can go play on gyms and schoolyards and we have tracks and we have fields and everything and and uh we have a park downtown right on the lake and another Park would be I don't want to say not needed cuz parks are great but at what cost and all the residents on Lakeside if that ever were to come to fish um I'm sure would be here voicing what I'm voicing now like they have in the past when different developments have proposed things like that um I hope it doesn't happen I mean I can remember the efforts to purchase that Land from the original developers they involved seed money and state money that were tied to certain grants that were designed to preserve Green Space um routing cars through it and developing it in a different way was not really ever part of how that money came along U but you know money change and plans change and people change but I would like you to keep it on your radar so when this comes to a discussion as part of the development project I know there were studies done in the past and uh I would like to hear at you have at least one heard voice as to how that would negatively impact our

neighborhood which is you know already a busy street we knew that byy in it in 1990 and of course it's only gotten a little bit busier but that's part of where we live I just don't want it to be worse I don't want the traffic to become an inability to get in and out of my driveway even right and uh any the other thing is when cars get routed if they were to get routed that way now all night long headlights shine right in our Windows as they would come across from Reed Lake Boulevard and um be very undesirable what the developer that's doing this is I believe associated with some of the what's it called Brownfield um Brown the BR the Brownfield R Development Authority yeah so I've done a lot of reading on that and the purpose of that kind of plan is to develop blighted areas of inner cities with the idea that surrounding communities will benefit from the improved blighted smaller area in the community well I'm not sure I would label what's going on down there as a blight um it's it's c ly uh is room for development but I don't know that our neighboring communities are suffering because of that our our home values and everything are not suffering because that parking ramp is torn down and it's a vacant property in fact a development that's proposed probably would decrease our home values because of the increased traffic on the road and things of that nature um so I don't even know if the BR is for is the appropriate way to develop that meaning I don't know that we fit that mold I'm not saying they won't try and it might be very profitable for the developer um because they get certain tax bases reimbursed for a while um back

to them to help pay for the development costs I get it that's business but is that really going to increase the value of the homes on Love It Up on Lakeside um even some on the other side of wealthy in East Rapids where my business is located um I I don't know my thought is at least where I live probably not anyone sees an increase in traffic from all of that development probably is less interested in my home than more but that's my piece I just wanted to give you guys a lay of where I would stand as a resident if it gets further along than idea phase of course I will be here again but and so will probably be many of my neighbors but if it comes to you guys maybe you'll just remember the conversation okay thank you thank you had to Grayson Easton thank you Mr Schultz was there any other public comment I briefly if I don't if you don't mind uh I think he raises some important points uh regarding development of another park in that area and rerouting the road just curious Derek have you been engaged by the city commission or the developers in any capacity related to that concept uh not to date no certainly you know can't predict the what might happen in the future but there's been no um discussions um that I've been a part of that would um result in that and actually to the contrary like um one of the agenda items uh this evening is to talk about like the next priority project um um to hear all of your feedback on that um and Waterfront Park um is on that list um and it it does not include any reference to um rerouting that space I would imagine and I really don't have an expert answer on this but I would imagine it would go re in the road would involve another couple of process steps Beyond buying and developing the property that currently exists and the infrastructure we currently have would that be sort of correct I mean rerouting the road is not developing a property so any thoughts on that or would the Planning Commission

have to be engaged at that stage or would there be any sort of other checks along the on the way to that yeah certainly there would be a lot more discussion related to that and I know that the um the city engineering department recently had done some additional studies related to that road rerouting discussion um and had found that it would be um quite expensive to uh reroute a road through uh through that space because of the um the wetlands that are present and the um much less than desirable soils uh that are present in that space so that there it would be a a significant undertaking not just from an engagement um perspective but from a constructibility okay and then I guess a followup you just uh pequ my mind on that that particular area I don't exactly know how the route for the proposal route adjustment or what the road would be but wouldn't that be somewhere in Waterfront Park phase three so that would disturb that existing plan correct gotcha all right anything from the other Commissioners Mr Schultz I just wanted to reach out I'm your City Commissioner um that's involved with the development on on more of a part than just the parks level um and I'm Ward one so I'm your guy uh I'd like very much encourage you to reach out to me personally um as well as we have an information session develop just about all of Ward one but kind of focusing on the development on February 10th with your other W one commissioner as well as your county commissioner as well as the mayor um right here if you'd like to come for more information on that as well I'll be here yeah that sounds that sounds good to know yeah the the developers brief uh display of what they had in mind um she admitted it would probably involve maybe they're optimistic uh as far as development goes about 9,000 extra inflows of traffic in Instagrams per day and that's got to get in here somehow and we have limited roads that come into downtown you know wealthy at the middle and Breton from the south and Lakeside

and a little bit of breed Lake Boulevard but adding the extra traffic and then concentrating both Reeds Lake and Lakeside into one road I just I see that as a a problem to developer hasn't thought through very yeah if you want to talk about it more I'd like love to sit down with you and and the only reason I'm here is because that idea would run through what is considered a part right now and in their mind at least in the developers it was going to be additional Park expansion as well as it was part of the extra o that they wanted to pitch really appreciate that exchange you for for you coming in today and bringing that to our attention and I hope we certainly do keep uh engaging with uh your representative to the commission and make your voice heard as often and frequent and as loud as possible all right we do thank you everyone uh moving on to the next agenda item four minutes of the regular meeting held December 9 2024 are there any edits changes number three on the agenda if one oh yes I'm sorry report of the Commissioners item I guess I'll start as always and uh I have nothing to report for the moment no report I was gone for a bit and came back so I drove around East and I it's really encouraging to see what's Always Going On by hoden pile rock and all of that there was a lot of trucks there doing work and whatnot today today we there yeah and then I drove out to uh Manhattan Park and not much happening there but boy there has been a lot that has has happened so that's great to see next no report no report okay I have a few and I might need Derrick's help on this one um City commission we met last Monday um and we uh voted to accept the master plan for parks and wreck but we did so with some amendments um I don't have the specific wording of the exact

amendments because I haven't seen them yet um but a lot of it was based around a lot of the public comment that we had received between the time that we had last met and when we were putting this in as our master plan so things that were identified that were added um again I don't have the exact wording but it revolved around public uh Commission G blazak was looking for public access to uh swimming on Reeds Lake um there was a consensus on identifying opportunities for toddler spaces uh tree planting downtown pop-up parks and then based on a lot of the public feedback that had came in um playing field maintenance improvements for the centrally located City Fields especially in lie of the high school construction and the loss of that track uh field um they're going to there's going to be feel they need to handle a lot more traffic so uh those are the things that were put in there kind of as as I took notes on them I I'm sure we'll get better language about them maybe even tonight from our from our lovely Parkson Rec director loveely that's all I got lovely thank you commissioner um moving on to agenda item four at the appropriate time minutes of the regular meeting held December 9 2024 are there any changes at its discussion on the minutes if not I will entertain a motion to approve the minutes of the December 9 meeting I have a few little typo ones do you want me to just email them to you or do you want me to read them off read them off for the record okay Goble wobble we had gobble Wabble in the special event discussion and then we have a uh Vice chair as in the hand Vice instead of uh Vice chair um and then uh oh Trailblazer we're on walk in our uh special event calendar we have as the 20 as 2024 not 25 and in the capital Improvement

project table formatting uh in Waterfront phase three it's showing 300 like $30,000 instead of $300,000 so we're just missing a zero that's all I saw thanks brother um did I have a second on the motion to approve the minutes second do I have a motion to approve the Amendments offered to the minutes by commissioner berck motion to approve uh to approve the Amendments not improve the Amendments sorry I have a second to approve the amendment to the missions um I guess the minutes are up for a vote as amended uh all those in favor say I I I those in opposition the eyes have it the minutes are approved item five special event calendar is in closed for your information anything to discuss nothing to add just keeping it there uh for discuss questions related to uh special event permits perfect moving on to item six election of the vice chair for the remainder of the FY 2024 2025 Year yes so as outlined in the U the brief memo um obviously um a bill has um been reassigned uh to the uh Board of Education and um that's why uh lelas here this evening is um our new um Board of Education at liaison and Matt richenthal has also been reassigned um but because of bill was the uh the vice chairperson that had been voted in um in July of this year um um we do need to elect a new Vice chairperson for the remainder of the the fiscal year so through the end of June um so as you may recall the the process for doing this is uh to have um open some nominations um once nominations are complete we can close that um and then we would um vote on those nominations in order of in which they were received and then if um anyone were to receive a majority um they would then be um appointed to that

Vice chairperson position excellent I'd open it up for nominations at this time I want to say Patrick again but I keep throwing it at him every other year that's fine I will accept but I'm willing to entertain other nominations as well too any others G to make it easy Patrick all right well I will move make a motion that Patrick Parks is designated as the vice chair for the remainder of the 2024 2025 parks and R calendar year second um all those in favor say I I I those in opposition there you go right excellent Patrick uh congratulations on your promotion to Vice chair of the parks and R commission awesome second time isn't it yeah four more years no 45 47 or something like that I um moving now to item seven a consider a request to approve the special events permits Derek yes so included within your packet this evening is the special event permit application from Michigan's cyclocross um this is the same group that has put on the kisscross event in the past and really they're just uh changing the name of the event um to to align with um they're doing a series of um cyclocross events at various Parks uh throughout the West Michigan area um so this application would be um a renewal application um they do have identified their their date um in the um in the fall of of 2025 um which we work with them to select that date to avoid um any other parks and recreation activities namely soccer um taking place in the park um and then also um we don't have a final um course layout that's something that um historically I've worked with

the um the event organizer to develop that layout as we get closer actually the last couple years we've had to um develop it really close um to the event um because when we were working on the Fred bun multiuse Trails there was um you know the um available um space in the park was kind of up in the air during that construction and also when the Manhattan field number five project was underway we had to um they had to Pivot and then um this last fall um with the Manhattan Park uh construction underway um we had to work with them to um see what was going to be available come race week um so we're I'm excited to work with them on a a course that is going to have less disruptions than they have the last two years um but it's something that we U refine um and and we usually um typically we have two different courses that U we'll consider one of them would be like a fair weather course so if it's if it's dry um they may be able to use small segments of the Fred bun um Trails um however if it is um a wet um either rainy day or the conditions are wet um we have a backup course where they don't have to utilize the Trails um and the reason for that is uh the trails there's quite a bit of clay back there and and we ask Riders to stay off of those Trails when it's wet so um there's an opportunity for this event to Pivot um based on weather conditions um one thing I will add to is in the past um like sometimes um depending on the conditions you can tell that an event had been out there um as far as is like where they're making their turns in the grass and it um it can at times like the next day or few days after look like some damage has been done to the um the turf in the space um however they've been really good at coming back raking out areas and a lot of times it's not really damaged it's just muddy and looks dirty but um you know a couple weeks later um you really can't tell that they've been there so they've done a good job at um making sure if there are any areas that

need to be addressed they do so but really proactively try to limit those types of um issues at the park so happy to answer any questions you might have about the application is is this the third year or third time we've hosted them um so this event had it has been more I'm not quite sure how far in the past but it um they had um had events prior to my employment with the city uh so it's the third time that I'm bringing it um forward for approval but it had um been taking place prior to that okay so there's a history of this good stewardship with the park correct excellent do they run out the shelter too they have not in in the past um and um last year it wasn't there anymore so I know we're going to have a new one for this year with a bathroom and I I didn't know if that was a thing and if there was changes to rates or anything that was going to happen with that I don't I just honestly didn't know yeah so if if they were interested in doing that um we would um allow for them to reserve the Pavilion as we would in any other group they would pay that um reservation fee but um they have not utilized that in in at least in the recent um past okay Derek you may have mentioned this already but what is there a predominant type of bike they're using is it just a mountain bike like a standard mountain bike or are they using you know motorized kind of bikes or what's the what's kind of the roster that they're using for yeah so there are there are no motorized bikes um and my um a little bit of my ignorance in um the different types of bikes is to show but um they use um it's a pedal bike it's it's again it's not motorized but um and I've heard some of them use like gravel bikes um and again I don't know all of those details like different tires and weights and things but it is that's part of the challenge um that they like for this event is that um you know they have to work through the different obstacles in

the past they've had to ride their bike through the volleyball court area in the sand and or pick up their bike and carry it um through or over obstacles um that they put that they bring in for the event um but it would not be um motorized and that's where I know the like when you see the cyclocross um that's something you might um think of when you see that but it um that is not um the type of bike they're using okay cool thank you any other questions or discussion thank you Derek moving on to agenda item eight Parks and Recreation 5-year Plan update um chairperson Abraham if if we could action requested yes do I have a motion to approve the special event request permit so moved second second uh um do I have on consideration of the uh motion to approve the special event per permit those in favor say I I I those opposed the eyes have it agenda item 8 yes so included within your packet this evening is just a brief memo and then also a um some supporting documentation um as commissioner berck had had referenced uh previously the at the um City commission meeting last week uh the the commission did review the um the final draft of the community Parks and Recreation uh plan and also they did have a public hearing um of of which no one um came to speak during that time um so there was a discussion by the city commission and those items that commissioner berck noted were added um the the um the document that you see here included within the the packet the spreadsheet that has the list of all of the parks Improvement projects that is not the same spreadsheet that is going

to be included within the the um Recreation plan that's going to the the DNR um it will be um the other documents that were part of uh the capital Improvement schedule um from section 8 this document I put together just to help with the discussion for this evening because part of the um City commission meeting um and if I'm not mistaken actually commissioner berck might have brought it up is uh that one of the needs of the city commission is to direct staff myself um as to what the next uh preferred Parks Improvement project um um for us to start working on um it needs to be and um it was um suggested that that come first here to the Parks and Recreation commission for all of your discussion um really to help prioritize what um projects on the list are um of of the highest priority because within the master plan or the or the recreation plan the projects are not listed in any sort of preferred order there were um just all of the projects that had um come about from the process were put together which is very typical um to not have them prioritized um and to allow for uh commissions and Boards such as yourselves to help um with that prioritization um so for this evening was really hoping that all of you could have some discussion uh related to the items on the list um to see what um you felt like may be the the next priority project um a couple of things just to point out about that list is um you know one of the intentions of as you may recall if you were on the board um this past summer and into the fall was one of the reasons for renewing the recreation plan at that time was so that we could apply for a DNR Grant this uh cycle um which the the DNR Grant cycle runs April 1st um to what is it is there 31 days in March to March 31st of of the following year so essentially I have until April 1st to submit um the next Grant

application if we want to meet that deadline for this year um and in order to do that I would um need to know from all of you and the city commission um which project is of the highest priority to submit um also secondary to the the DNR discussion um there may be some projects that um would be of high priority um but would not be eligible for DNR grant funding uh because they would not score well I I could tell you um already like this this list of projects in the middle that I that I have outlined um they'd be a great project for the community but the DNR would not get behind like a maintenance related project they really like to see whole comprehensive projects um such as like Waterfront Park phase three where you um where it could potentially mean additional access which could mean parking um you know Ada improvements um they really like Trail related uh projects so those um projects that incorporate Trail improvements or connectivity to existing Trails uh tend to score uh really well and then also environmental components so if there's any sort of wetland restoration or Environmental Education related to um um environmental items those tend to score well so so again looking this evening to hear from all of you may maybe um a prioritization list for the projects that are in that top part of the chart um and then also a prioritization of the projects that wouldn't necessarily be eligible for grant funding but still important um and and um potentially if there were a hybrid of the two of where those um projects that wouldn't score well for Grant uh projects or for Grant funds would fit into the overall um prioritization um from all of you um so I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about the um the project list or um any related to DNR grants but

really hoping to um just get feedback from all of you is what you feel like the next um couple projects would um be of highest priority quick question is the Interurban Trail Improvement ptha Santa Cruz is that the one that's just north of Grace Church is that that Trail there yes okay can you talk about what a popup Park is a little bit please yes so the um so the popup Park um and I kind of um you know slashed it with the the pocket park is um it could be a flexible space that could be um utilized for a variety of things um you know kind of I think a good way to um a visualization of here in the community like the um the is it rata Plaza um so the the turnaround um within the um gas light village where the the fountain is right um so if that weren't a road um that um drove through that like a space like that in the middle that could be used for events like we currently use it for the tree lighting it gets used for the um they used it for the Harvest Festival they um they used it for Taste of yeast in the past um but maybe isn't necessarily designated as a park so a space that could be utilized for that um o or there's um um some communities um would turn like Alleyways into a a pocket park or a popup space that could have seating and a gathering space um within the social District um the reason why that's on the list that actually came up during the uh 2021 Parks Improvement millage discussions as a priority project at the time to um to try to identify a space kind of in that downtown core area where um without the need for shutting down roads to have a gathering space um it wasn't part of the previous Recreation plan um but because of those discussions

in 2021 and also um it continuing on throughout the time um that has been added into the the recreation plan as as potential certainly it would require um acquisition of land or some sort of lease partnership with um a land owner so we don't have a a space um identified for that but um keeping it on there in case the opportunity uh does come up um for us thank you questions or discussion I'll go um Waterfront phase Park Phase 2 has been on the list for quite a long time um I know it does not incorporate Trails as you mentioned it's a little lower cost than the other uh related sort of Trail improvements any Hang-Ups there with prior prioritizing Phase 2 as it seems to me as a long-standing member of both this commission and resident of the city that uh hold Waterfront phase Park Park Phase 2 has been next on the list for quite a long time so personally I'm in favor of that but I'd like to hear from you what Hang-Ups or what expediencies might might be behind that project sure and and uh and Nick I think you're certainly right the um you know while it would be a valuable project for the community it wouldn't be something the DNR would necessarily get behind um as as it currently stands um you know when I look at this list and I see Waterfront Park Phase 2 and three right next to each other there may be an opportunity um you know given feedback from all of you of um that could be a one-phase project and um have it all happen at the same time potentially and that would check quite a few boxes um from the granting um agency perspective so um certainly the prerogative of the commission to um to to give give me that feedback but you're you're right it wouldn't um from a DNR perspective wouldn't score well for okay

yeah I appreciate that looking at like the Remington hod and piled Trails as well as Waterfront Park they almost touch right there is that something that we can kind of package together again to make it more of a DNR friendly application um and I just speak from the several members of the commission um expressed to me that those were Waterfront Park phase two and the trail improvements were high on their list of what they were kind of looking forward to getting to Once we'd kind of finish a lot of the playgrounds yeah certainly the um the DNR would be open to that like a coordinated project or like more of a linear Park um and as long as um like um as as long as we were tying those together for example sometime communities might put in a grant for one project um and then for another and and if they get one or the other they might forgo certain um amenities um but if we were to tie them together um we would have to um accomplish all of the items that we're putting in there um from as far as scope items and I guess when when I say that just to back up a little bit the way that the DNR works is that uh when you submit an application they're not expecting to see final engineered drawings they're they're expecting to see conceptual designs that's going to show Trail um where they might go the um they're going to um you know if there were a restroom facility which I know there's not in this case but where that would potentially go where a parking lot might go or where playground structure might go um and then they they understand because it is a two-year process for the DNR grants they understand those items might um move they might we we might potentially add Trail linear footage or remove some um playground structures would obviously change um but provided we don't remove remove um a playground

structure from the plan or we don't remove trails from the plan um they would still um see that as one project and and would um be supportive of a a combined project again if we um kept all those major scope items in place so there are some challenges associating with scaling up the project there's challenges with it being too small right trying to find it thread the needle uh two questions can you remind to us um what the remaining budget is and from the 2021 millage um I can remind you that it's approximately $2 million um I I don't have the exact figures here this evening but that's fair yeah okay and uh second question is the Wetland restoration and in the description it talks about there was fill and that we would REM remove the fill to restore Wetlands is that primarily south of the um of Remington Park like in that area it it all seems fairly Wetland to me and so I'm I'm trying to visualize what that means and and is would a DNR Grant be contingent on that that we would have to do that so you are correct it would um the area would be like to the south of the DPW building um within Waterfront Park so basically between the parking lot um that's currently existing in Waterfront Park is that what you're you're talking about the Waterfront Park Wetland restoration is that correct yes yes yes so from the existing parking lot in Waterfront Park to the

um the channel That that runs uh through and and um to the south of um the DBW building and then also to the West um thank you I believe it it butts up to Lakeside I think is what the the street name is there um and then as far as the um the dnr's perspective on that certainly if they were um contan contaminated contaminated I can't even say it cont animated we all know know what you're saying portions of that um there may have to be some remediation but they wouldn't necessarily require that we um that we restore all the wetlands and I think part of it too is that that um the the Wetland restoration piece would be one of the educational components of the project if we did have um if that were included um so that's it was kind of um covering two bases um from a Grant application perspective can you um you know I know that feedback from the community was saw on the parks were there any like threads of what people were really hoping for like we love walking around the lake we'd want more views or Trails or we we really want more playgrounds or any yeah I would say that the um as Nick alluded to the um you know having an additional play Space has been in the plan for a while and we we did hear that quite a bit um from the community and and more recently is when specifically the um the thought of it being a lower um like um prek or um preschool age playground is has come to light because we invested all of um in all of the other playgrounds for the lower elementary and upper elementary kids um but the opportunities for preschool age kids are quite limited right now the um currently with

Manhattan offline the only um play structure that's designed for that age group is at Bret and downs on the back side of the school um and then and um although there's some components at each of the three elementary schools that um that would meet that age group they're not able to um play on them during majority of the time of the year when when school is in session um so I would say that was one definitely we hear a lot um not just through this process but just in general every time we have an engagement session um we do hear about more opportunities for walking trails and um we we hear riding Trails as well but trails in in general people um in this community really seem to um enjoy them um I I would say those would be the the two things I heard the most um I I know there's when you look at the the survey results of of the plan M um commissioner Brown and I were talking about this a little bit earlier um like John cin Park was actually quite high on the list for people wanting to see improvements there uh but um it it's not as defined in um for that space as to what they would like to see but but I know that parcel was high in the list that parcel is also highly restricted in what you can do right so right I can't seem to find them trying to dig for it um do we we got emails from the public comment for this master plan that ended on the 10th right correct yes do you know where those are or what those can you speak to what those came back as yes so a nearly all of the uh the feedback that we had heard at um from the emails and they all all the feedback that we received was in Incorporated in the the final uh Recreation plan so every um all the survey results and then also all the emails um are appendices to

that to that document um and I I believe all of them except for one were related to um really three items um one is improving the athletic fields really joint facility athletic fields so we obviously recently renovated Manhattan Park uh field number five the big soccer field there um so we're are doing our best to protect that um and um and keep that um as as High um you know as as maintained as nicely as we can and then obviously we have the um manyy field and Memorial Field um but the Athletics um the green spaces at wealthy Elementary Lakeside Elementary Breton downs elementary and then the Middle School back has a a natural grass field um the only fields that received any sort of improvements as part of the playground process were at Lakeside some drainage was added um and then at Breton Downs as well some drainage was added um but wealthy Elementary was untouched and the middle school back was untouched um and so it could benefit from um increased or different types of Maintenance maybe some drainage um there's no irrigation at any of those spaces and I I know that the um in speaking with the school district that's um maybe not high on the priority list um but so that was kind of the first prong of those emails there also uh was um feedback and requests that the city assist um with identifying um Athletic Field space um during the construction so certainly while the high school is under construction um the community track and the the infield of the track um is going to um be unusable because it will be used for construction um and and that's a field space that the lacrosse East Pride lacrosse uses uh

during the Spring um and so trying to find um places for like East Pride lacrosse and also our Middle School football program that are going to be displaced during construction um so because of that we've um started reaching out to aquinus college Calvin College Grand Rapids parks um we've been look scrolling around looking at the different um at maps of of different um churches or smaller school districts that might have green space that they'd be willing to lease um US during um those construction periods because we need somewhere for all of those athletes to go um and then lastly um the um again a majority of those emails had requested the city and the um well specifically in this case the city um investigate some indoor um Athletic Field um space such as like an indoor facility or um there's some of the comments were related to potentially um investigating the um the option of having a dome over man field seasonally um to provide for um you know wintertime indoor field use that was an idea that was in the comments the Dome I've never heard that before an excellent idea it's an excellent idea sounds expensive and then um Leila I made a couple notes going through comments um so in addition to a centrally located playground um there was quite a few comments that were very emphatic about cutting down the least amount of trees as possible keeping our natural areas as natural as possible and then another um another one that I saw a repeated theme of was the Boating launch at John Collins Park that it can be quite congested and um I had heard before I joined this commission there had been discussion about having a boating option

at Waterfront Park where there's not quite as much congest congestion where do they going to park well where are they going to park now I mean it's it's it's cons right it's a consistent thing um okay so where I'm going with that is has the that been vetted out like does Waterfront Park is it a good fit for that type of of um access I I can say we uh internally haven't uh specifically investigated or or studied that I know that there was some discussion really actually related to the um the the resident that stopped earlier with the rerouting of the road there had previously been discussions of if um if I wish I had a map right here to show everyone but um basically if we were to reroute uh Lakeside over like he was um suggesting um in Waterfront Park was expanded that that would might provide some opportunities but it never was like fully studied or anything like that I mean I don't know much about the depths of the lake um but that area by Waterfront Park seems quite shallow and seems quite vegetated like lots of vegetation I I no longer own a boat but I owned a boat on re late for a long time and you don't boat over there you fish over there but you don't boat over there which is why there are fishing docks yeah at Waterfront Park I have a question just about um Waterfront Park um and the construction project that for the city and how close they are in proximity and curious if we had two projects going in the city at

the same time if there would be any difficulties getting different trucks and people in and out and um how does that sound like a hot MK When you say when you say the con like the high school construction project I meant like the City Construction Pro the new construction that's being talked like we would add a third project right in the area right in that right there in that same like mile space and I'm just concerned that's a whole lot of trucks and stuff in the same spot at the same time um you know definitely there would be a lot of logistics yeah um I I think that uh we we do a really good job of coordinating things when we can but certainly to your point yeah it would be a a busy whatever time period overlap that that would be um I know that the um the proposed development um on the the Ramona property or The Gaslight investors property um would likely have a much longer time span than anything that we would be doing at Waterfront Park so um there there certainly would be some overlap but um I'd have to um talk a little bit more with some construction professionals that um know a little bit more about mobilization and things than I do I will say two on the boat launch thing while like we might not be able to move that there was some discussion um between commission members about possibly having longer spaces if we were to add parking spots over in like Waterfront Park phase three so you could fit a trailer so they might not be taking up three spaces right in front of uh the parks downtown MH it was a thought if we can't do like the big move like maybe that's kind of something that's a middle ground or we can find another place that that might can you clarify that just a Long Lake Side there you would just take the existing parking spaces and make them longer well they were talking in some of the plans for water Front Park that I've

seen Phase 2 and phase three includes more parking right and so instead of having those parking spots maybe be two that are like front to back you could just have it be one long one that you could fit a trailer and a boat so it would take two instead of three in front of you know in front of roses or closer to downtown I understand that okay gotcha I do want to focus back to the list here of projects that we want to recommend to the city commission uh these are all Parks related um projects that have been on the books for a while we're aware of these I appreciate the discussion about all those kind of extra things those are interesting ideas but for the purposes of keeping this meeting um focused on what our objectives are I'm going to request that we discuss in two separate pieces first the recommendations we'd like for priority on the first box of projects following that recommendation to Derek I'd like a recommendation for from the body on the projects that cannot be prioritized and I have some questions about those for grant funding but as to the first question on the projects that are eligible for grant funding I will make my prioritization known others disagree that's great but I think that's the exact kind of feedback Derrick is looking for I am very much in favor of Water Park Waterfront Park Phase 2 and phase three I think the IDE idea to combine the two is an interesting one I might want to know a little bit more about that but if you think combining them makes a better proposal to the DNR worth worthy of additional scoring points and I would think that would be the way to go I'd look at definitely as commissioner um uh berdick mentioned potentially incorporating the REM Remington hoden pile Trail improvements into that I'd look at you know potentially each on their own each together every iteration of that seeing

what you think you know what is the best in your eyes you know what DNR does following that the San L triangle is a quick hit easy one people walking around grab shade in the summertime it's low cost that would be my second priority the other ones would be following that I have one more funding question before I can weigh in on priority for the Manhattan Renovations and I think this would would also apply to Shoring up some of our local Fields centrally located fields to offset um the construction taking up the the field where the track is and whatnot that's that's 1.3 million of um Renovations is um is there any maintenance budget within the parks and wreck that can help cover those costs or would we only be looking at millage funds for those yeah so um certainly the um so the list of projects that we have here all of them included far exceed what millage dollars would be available um so once the um you know once we get down the list of priority projects and the mill dollars have been spent um we would be looking at um you know general fund dollars from the city so um like requesting within the annual budget of the city for additional funds to do these it it wouldn't be happening within the millage um and some of them like Manhattan field number three for example just depending on what happens in the future and the timing of this um that is a um joint facility field um that um in the past when they had a Varsity Softball program they would utilize that space if they did have a Varsity Softball program in the future that may be a collaboration opportunity with the school district for

some shared costs um but I do I personally look at this this um the the middle group of projects as those being something that would be chipped away at over time um with the city general fund dollars and not not millage dollars and and for two reasons one because not millage at all not millage at all for those projects for for two reasons one I I think the um the list of projects at the top um for prioritization um would utilize all the available um millage dollars um but then also these um this list of projects are it would be great to improve those but um you know it it's not necessarily um an improvement to that like a capital Improvement to that space it's more of like a maintenance Improvement um and those are things that could be done one field at a time well into the future if um depending on what funds are available whereas um some of these other projects I um and this is for all of you to to tell me as a staff member but some of those other projects maybe were more tied to the the millage funding discussion whereas these um projects in the middle are new projects that had come up okay that's that's very helpful um my thoughts for order of um of priority are uh Waterfront Park Phase 2 because I think that playground area can apply to DNR and and the natural education piece and also check the box for a centrally located playground um I've talked with um Comm I've talked with director Melville before about where the bench is in the piece of the park that's between Lakeside and reads Lake Boulevard um there's quite a bit of

invasive species but if we could go back into that space we get rid of the evasive species we could have a small toddler focused um natural park that's within trees and then if we could have some type of uh way to keep kids from going in NE Road and then um if the parking um what's called out in our plans is to take that half Arc of a plot of parking lot and make it into a full Arc then that gives parents the opportunity the ability to park on that side they don't have to cross the road to go to the playground are you able to zoom in on that by chance yes yeah I did have a map I forgot I did thank you yeah um so and it's and and pricewise assuming we do we we can um get some uh some DNR dollars like that's we only have to put in half and we get to we just get a lot of bang for the buck for that one it's not yeah it's it's trying it's like my eyes these days that's not just me yeah but um just slowly happen Michelle you were talking about this space here in the corner right Y and then with the potential that's backwards with the potential added parking lot there and I don't know if we need quite that much parking but um but that idea I I've spoken with several residents that have talked about Waterfront Park that's alongside the lake while there is that kind of open um grassy space there um this is a a pretty peaceful Park um to sit and have a meal to enjoy the nature and

um and kids can be peaceful and sometimes they cannot be peaceful and so that I I really like that and and it has has the part where you have to walk across if I if I hear you correctly you're saying that this space up here is more peaceful and so that's why you yes and then um Second and my priority list based on everything is the Remington um Trail improvements again bang for the buck um I think it's a great setup um I the piece of hesitation that I have is that that's very Wetland and you can tell walking that trail um that there was an effort at one time maybe in 1992 I don't know um where there's markers and that sort of thing and so I'd want to make sure that we're really conscientious about the feasibility of it and I I I think there's environmental groups that will help us with that um and that there's materials that are used that um that won't rot because it's a it's a perfect spot for that M and then um third on mine is um Waterfront Park phase three and I um I would like to see millage dollars go in go in for that effort uh in the literature I think it's our third most visited park I think that was noted in here and so I think there's some justification there is the Remington hoden pile Trail improvements is that towards the lake bouard or new map he's going to get us lined up

here sorry I got a lot of pages here it's up here um in this area like north of the field so this of course is just conceptual um but so the Remington hoden pile would be I'm so like this is the um the baseball field at at Remington and um so um like there's ex some existing Pathways and things through here that are not ad accessible they're weather dependent so they can get quite muddy back there um so it would be a combination of um items that could happen on the um I guess this would be the north side of the road and then U potentially some tie-ins on on that side as well any other feedback I think with the dog park right there completely agree those are used quite a bit more and and um yeah I think it would be great to improve that uh for use I'm going to Echo what everyone's saying here I think it's the hod and pile trails and Waterfront Park Phase 2 and three if only because it's using some of these Mill dollars for other groups outside of just School AG children um we can serve our older uh citizens with these trails that we've been getting asked for as well as the toddlers um and younger families and um it's hitting all of the pieces of centrally located Parks it's hitting the pieces of environmental stewardship and then if we can get some Grant funny uh grant funding on top of that uh through the DNR that's just like icing on top um I also like the Waterfront phase three um additional parking as well D just a quick question is there a threshold for the grant size that we would I know some of it probably depends on the project and percentages of submissions but is there a threshold

that we would be targeting for grant funding um so the it depends on which um so there's multiple DNR grants so there's the natural resources trust fund there's the land and water conservation fund and then there's recreation passport um the uh the trust fund is the one that typically gives out the most amount and would um based on my experience these projects would be best aligned for those um from a scoring perspective because they are competitive you know they they'll receive a couple hundred applications and only the ones that receive scoring within a certain um bandwidth receive the funding um it also the um the application process there's different um levels of points that you can receive based on how much of a match the community is um offers so if you offer 0 to 25% match you would receive a certain amount of points um and knowing that this community will uh likely never receive um a certain point category that's tied to economic status of the of the community we need to try to get as many points elsewhere within the application as we can so I always recommend um doing more than 50% match um and so and the um trust fund has a maximum Grant um Award of 300,000 um so for for these projects it would be trying to um line up um you know having let's say for example Waterfront Park Phase 2 and again all these numbers will potentially change depending on what the final design is um but if we going to be asking for a $300,000 Grant um it should be for a project that's at least a $900,000 project so we can say hey we're doubling up our match on that right so why the mismatch then on the Remington hoden pile Trail improvements with 250 250 in city funding and 275 in matching in uh Grant yes so that that project

would be one that we could potentially um get a recreation passport Grant on um that's one of the few that they've um they've said that might be more aligned with that program but it's it's um it really like and they do change they change the criteria not yearly but every few years but it's a possibility for that one of course I have a question about the Remington hogen pile Trail it's obviously you know Wetland area and really soggy if you've ever been on those Trails do we see bikes on those Trails I have one time we I mean if we improve them do you want do you want to see this as a designated biking trail or more just a I want a des a non biking trail that's that's where I was headed I don't know how you enforce it but how do we see this do we see it as a biking walking trail because it' be really nice for some of our community just to have a walking foot traffic only running or walking yeah I I think you've got a good point Larry especially with part of our community that has has been uncomfortable with the multi-use at Manhattan um this would be a nice nod to here's a place we found a place for you it's also for the dog park too right if you're walk you're already walking right I don't know if that's something that's is that a reasonable thing to ask for that I mean certainly if that's the preference of the of the city um I know to your point Larry like there are segments of Waterfront Park that um currently are supposed to be non- biking because they're like some of the um the aggregate stone pathways and um we know sometimes bikes are going on there um certainly I don't think the design would be optimized for bikes either way no um if if it were um open for any users or

you know just um designated as walking only versus like at um the Fred bun Trails like with the um banked corners and rollers and things so it um I I don't think that's ever been part of the discussion um but that's a community decision I I I do recall hearing that actually during um I heard someone mention this the during the the Fred bun Trail or the Manhattan Park Trail discussions of well maybe in the future a trail development could um be limited to you pedestrial fo traffic only but um I mean this is a it's a wet area there's a lot of mosquitoes there so I I don't want to promote it it's like but I think it's well suited for walking traffic only one quick question when was the last time the city received a DNR grant for a park upgrade um water Front Park phase one would have been the the last time I I believe um and then prior to that was John cins Park and when you think about like just the properties themselves like being adjacent to water and um and like the you know the for John Collins Park a little bit less U related to the environmental pieces that we have at at Waterfront Park um but those would have been the last two we did apply um trying to remember if it was for Manhattan park I think we applied for Manhattan Park recently um and and then we actually before my time here they had applied for uh Waterfront Park Phase 2 which at that time Phase 2 was um really kind of what we're calling phase three um and it was not funded at that time it was it was close um but um the our other application for Manhattan Park wasn't

really close because of the lack of trails environmental connection mhm well important points to to remember as we're prioritizing yeah any further discussion on the prioritization of projects eligible for DNR funding is there any reason I mean commissioner gr blazic had broughten up swimming in reeds Lake and it's not on our list now and I just wanted to bring it up as that was input from the city commission is there any appetite for that or is that even something that the DNR would like is that something we could even do I like honestly don't even know um I I I do think that the the DNR would um be supportive if we were adding um water access um to a to a park project um I know that the like it is included within the um the community plan um as as far as um like doing an investigation and trying to find like do some more surveying of the community specifically related to water access and swimming um it didn't make its way onto any of these projects um because we do know that um John Collins Park specifically does not allow for that based on the deed restrictions um but um I I don't know that um having swimming versus fishing and just access would be any extra points for okay so it's baking it's like still in the oven it's not made it to the list it'sa I I have a followon question to that um I think when people think of swimming in Reed's Lake or any Lake that there's kind of two ideas like one is athletic swimming where you just want a place where there's not boats and you can get a good swim in and then there's a beach where you have your kids and they can be playing in the water um for the first type of uh so the the beach with the kids and the swimming

like Waterfront is got a lot of vegetation as we talked about John Collins we talked about and then the access point um by the the fire station it's quite small and and so also not a great option for like a beach experience um but that area is there any reason why and I don't even think this applies to Grants necessarily is there any reason why we couldn't set a couple buoys off as a swimming area that the athletic swimmers could go there know that boats would not be going there is that something that we can explore um that that's something that could be explored as part of the kind of that swimming investigation um I since technically we don't um oversee the lake itself that's like the state of Michigan or the Kent County or whoever is in charge of like the operation Lake itself we would have to um coordinate with them on the placement of any buoys or anything like that but it's definitely something that could could be talked about as part of the the larger swimming discussion okay yeah I mean that's where we have our kayak um option right to is all right there too and that's quite honestly where people like maybe if they have a standup paddle board or one of the kayaks where you don't have to get down in it um they end up maybe jumping in there anyways once they get out under the water yeah yeah thank you additional feedback um I I don't want to drop um the popup Park alog together um so I I guess I'd like to just say that my my preferences rather than for property acquisition for that piece um

would be to lean towards some type of partnership um with a private owner for that and I don't know what kind of funds that would look like that I think it be a hard sell to to say we want to buy this property specifically only for a park but in terms of prioritizing projects here for DNR funding I mean it's yeah I understand it's a concept and I think originally when that popup Park appeared Ramona had been sitting vacant for quite a long time and I think that was part of the calculus then we could do popup Parks back there clean that thing up up a little bit but in any case that's under different discuss discusss now I would suggest we don't prioritize it that's my personal input there given that there's absolutely no parameters around it no space identified for it no funding tied to it absolutely no chance of getting DNR funding um so let's prioritize it is in that list yeah I know but I mean okay take note but let's like let's move forward here with you know one just one last comment as I'm looking at the shorter property in sty Woods like if Tre and viewing the lake you know lots of people walk around the lake are these potential links to people that do the whole circle of the lake to having more visibility of the lake and more natural areas that they're walking along as you know as they go around the entire Lake cuz that's like kind of a a huge Pastime in East um I'm I'm not entirely sure just looking at this yeah they're essentially wooded Trails by the lake Dowing like but you know you're going on your your 5 Mile Loop of the lake and you know this is you you take this detour and you get to see the lake and then you hop back on the road like is that would that be

that's essentially exactly what that is I look like looking at them schroer 2618 like can you like it's not not just an out and back but like you're like walking you know what I'm saying instead of like oh cuz people want purpose people want to like keep going not backtrack I think the perk of those properties also is that I don't think that they're going to be have the as intense of a mosquito population either I I could definitely be S swayed to focus on that area for Trails as opposed to um as opposed to Remington or maybe doing less at Remington and more on those properties I think it's a really good point the other funds part made me wonder about it especially for the sty Woods so Derek do you have a good set of feedback here on the eligible for DNR funding or should we continue this discussion I I think I have a a good summary that I could then share with the city commission um and I think the only Point uh extra that I wanted to add is the um the downtown popup pocket park um the only reason it's in this top list uh because it is quite ambiguous at this point of to be determined on everything right uh but um the DNR um you haven't heard me mention this because it hasn't come up before but um in addition to the trust fund uh for development they separately have um a trust fund for acquisition um so that was kind of the intent of having it on this list is that if a property did come up um the the DNR um does provide Grant funds for acquisition and they um their scoring systems quite different because they they love to see property get turned into park projects but again that's oh something would have to come up um in order for us to apply for that so yeah I wouldn't prioritize until we've identified a property that would be uh suitable

sure any other discussion or I think we're good on number one on the box one so I uh moving to the projects that cannot be uh will not be eligible for grant funding um in terms of priorities you know you have Manhattan Fields 1 2 and three they're all you know in similar states of needing maintenance um I guess and four and then so to me you know these are all essentially maintenance projects and I would prioritize them based on need what is what is the worst performing what's the one that requires the most maintenance what's given your staff the most amount of Hell on a consistent basis that's what how I would do that uh and joint joint facility Athletic Field improvements would be alongside that if there are opportunities to get funding from joint facilities or there's projects identified that are feasible and needed you know proed but if there's any thoughts you have on the rankings of Manhattan's Fields 1 two three and four I would love to know sure um I I think just as we stand today the um really the list as we're looking at it in reverse order would um probably be the priority list that I would recommend um so I put them in order just cuz that was the order of the field numbers right but um I do think that the um all the fields at Manhattan in my opinion um are in better condition than the other um some of the other joint facility fields and so for that reason the joint facility projects would be the number one um and then um going in the reverse order so four field number four would be the next um highest priority that's the it's a shared lacrosse and football field that's that's kind of in the corner there used to be baseball diamond there it's no longer there and never was maybe

properly renovated to be turned into Green Space um and that's I mean that's where football is practicing and Lacrosse which tend to um just require higher maintenance levels than baseball just from like the the use that's happening on them right um and um it it's also one of the the lower cost items as well cuz there's not significant fencing or outs or anything like that that would need to be uh replaced um and then as far as um the other fields um I I would have to talk a little bit more with the U maintenance team I know that a couple of years ago there was a a drainage project that was implemented for um for the benefit of field number three um that wasn't any infield drainage it was um some they're called slot drains that were installed like in the sidewalk areas to collect water um but still that um that space case can um can hold water um but I would need to talk to them a little bit more about of fields 1 2 and three which kind of which order would be so Derek with the return of Middle School softball looks like that's going to happen which means in a couple years we may have middle school or high school softball and we haven't had that for a while does that elevate the priority for field three is what I'm wondering because that field hasn't as far as I know hasn't been used regularly by the higho school for a few years now they hasn't been a softball field team yeah they haven't had a softball team since 2021 um and then um yeah since then they haven't um I I think that um I hear your point Larry I maybe Fields three and four maybe could um be some um because they're connected they're right next to each other and maybe there's some efficiencies if we were to do both at the same time um and and when I say this what I'm proposing is if if anyone saw the work that was

happening out at on Remington baseball field so this would be like a type of project that wouldn't completely wipe the field clean and not allow for use of it uh for a period of time it would be like a 12-week project that could happen over the summer so to then still allow for fall use and spring use in the following year um field three Derek and I'm going back quite a ways here to early 2000s we used to have a cross country meet out there and we've had some wet on and field three um it would get so wet it would suck the shoes off Runner beets real drainage issues in the Outfield um just just saying that maybe there's a little more there than we haven't looked at it in a long time so um wondering if there's more to it than you know when you open up a project there's these little surprises oh yes we love those surprises and um yeah and I I I I do think though that just knowing the um CU we are we do currently use uh field number three we put soccer field lines down in the in the fall and the spring um and I so I do think that the drainage project that they did is helping um I so I I guess the more I think about it I do think that that field four would just kind of nudg the field three by by a little bit as far as being a higher priority U but to your point Larry like if if we notice um that's the beauty of this right if we notice um like softball is coming back stronger than expected I think we we have like 12 girls signed up for the spring which is great um that um that project that we did at Remington we were able to pull together the specifics get someone under contract a specific contractor under contract and scheduled within like a six-month turnaround um partially due to the great work of the like the city commission and the Board of Education through the joint facilities committee said yes let's make this happen we do have the ability to

speed things up or slow things down as needed fair enough is this still I I agree with uh director Melville's recommendations for that group just kind of flip it upside down as do I any other discussion I'm I'm especially happy to hear about the wait wait wait wait um joint facilities Clos to the high school are are and a higher priority than than Manhattan definitely while the construction is underway it seems pretty responsible to do that so any other discussion or comments for the director Larry you know I always have comments I can I go down to the bottom real quick and talk about the Interurban Trail yes we we've already submitted a grant for that so um the city engineering department um you know through the way of um they've been working on safe routes to school projects and other infrastructure projects um the um to your point Larry that seeing that activity down on the Down By The Rock um that was another project that engineering department had helped um spearhead and getting some funds um so they it was not a DNR Grant it was um some other um Grant sources that they've been um been able to acquire I'm not sure how familiar the committee is about that trail it's absolutely wonderful in the fall but it is not even close to Ada comp I mean you can kill yourself on that thing because of the roots and there's some elevation drops and stuff um it would be a wonderful thing if it could be ADA Compliant because it's a cool little Trail back there totally agree that Creek yeah by the creek mhm that's nice yeah that's how my grandkids walk to Middle School it also DEC conflicts pedestrians with cars and I'm all about that yeah yes yeah any further discussion on any of the park

topics hopefully you have enough I think you got a lot that a lot of input yeah thank you everyone all right excellent lost the agenda um moving on to item 9 report of the director you you know what um I think the only thing I'll share is just an update um the recreation Sports supervisor as you may recall that was a a new position that we're adding to the Parks and Recreation Department to help with our vertical alignment effort so connecting our youth programs to the the high school programs in in a variety of ways um we've got some really tough decisions to make internally as as as far as um which candidates we're going to select but we're we're getting really close we had our final interviews last week Friday um so we're excited to to move that forward um and um but I think um my my summary spoke aloud enough there so well that's a great additional update any questions for the director all you do yeah thank you yes thank you this is very informative all right uh agenda item 10 any Communications to report not this evening no all all right with that do I need to make a motion to adjourn the meeting or can I just adjourn we'll have the meeting adjourned at 7:23 p.m. excuse me