Township Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening everyone and welcome. At this time I'll call this chamber to order. Will everyone please rise if you can join me as we pledge allegiance to our flag and our nation. Remain in place for a moment of personal reflection. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. It's been a long time since I forgot about that. I'm sorry. It's okay. Nothing was done on purpose. Attention clerk, would we please call roll and read our statement of adequate notice? Council member Hall here. Councilman Wendell here. Councilwoman Winston here. Councilwoman Zimbicki here. And Council President Mackoy here. Also present, Mayor Brad Cohen here. Administrator Joseph Chriso here. And Township Attorney Joseph Columbus here. Adequate notice of this meeting has been provided as required under chapter 231 public law 1975 by specifying the time, date, location, and to the extent known the agenda by posting a copy on the bulletin board located in the main lobby of the East Brunswick Municipal Building, providing a copy to the Home News Tribune and the Asbury Park Press newspapers, posting a copy on the township's website, and by filing a copy in the office of the township clerk. which will be entered into the minutes. Thank you. Council, you have before you resolution number 25, hyphen 217, adopting our meeting minutes from our

June 9th, 2025 meeting. May I have a motion to accept? Motion to accept. Second. Is there a need for correction or clarification on these minutes? Seeing none, roll call, please. Council member Hall, yes. Councilman Wendell, yes. Councilwoman Winston, yes. Councilwoman Zimbicki. Yes. And Council President Makavoy. Yes. Council, we have two proclamations this evening from the mayor's office. Our first proclamation will be recognizing July as Parks and Recreation Month. I can think of no one more instituted to offer this proclamation than Councilwoman Zambicki. Dr. Zambicki, the floor is yours. Thank you. Thank you. Excuse my back. We have our park and wreck staff. Would you like to come up with this? Yeah. Thank you. So, I'm honored to present this proclamation and thank you because Park and Rex is very dear to my heart, always has been working very well with um the East Bronzac Education Association and with the East Bronzac public schools and we appreciate everything you do. So, with that, whereas stand next to you? Oh, come over. Come closer. Whereas parks and recreation is an integral part of communities throughout this uh country, including East Brunswick. And whereas parks and recreation promotes health and wellness, improving the physical and mental health of people who live near or enjoy our parks. And whereas parks and recreation promotes time spent in nature, which positively impacts mental health by increasing cognitive performance and well-being and alleviating illnesses

such as depression, attention deficit disorder, and Alzheimer's. And whereas parks and recreation encourages physical activities by providing a space for popular sports, hiking trails, swimming pools, and many other activities designed to promote active lifestyles. And whereas parks and recreation is fundamental to the environment environmental well-being of our community. And whereas our parks and natural recreation areas ensure the ecological beauty of our community and provide a place for children and adults to connect with nature and recreate outdoors. And whereas the United States has celebrated Parks and Recreation Month in July to recognize more than the 160,000 full-time park and recreation professionals along with hundreds of thousands of part-time and seasonal workers and volunteers who maintain our c our country's local and state and community parks. Now, therefore, it be proclaimed that Brad J. Cohen, mayor of the township of East Brunswick and the town council do hereby recognize July as parks and recreation months and express deep gratitude to Michael Risyner and all of these wonderful employees with me today and all the others given under my hand and the great seal of the township of East Brunswick this 23rd day of June 2025. And I just want to say, you know, there it disturbs me when there is some negativity expressed about our park and recreation group because I don't think there's any place in New Jersey that meets what you do. You all do so much for the community. It's endless. You can find something going on

every single week in East Brunswick. And certainly the mayor highlighted the parks um in his little Facebook expose that he did, right, which was awesome. There's just so much. And thank you. Thank you for being great role models to our young um youngsters through youth council and also providing adult recreation as well. So we really appreciate it. So please say something. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Council President, Mayor Cohen, members of the town council. On behalf of Mike Risyner, the director of our department, uh my name is John. This is Ashley and Marissa. And we're here to say thank you for recognizing July as Parks and Recreation Month. This is the um 40th year that parks and recreation month has been declared nationally. And this year's theme is build together, play together. And truly that is what East Brunswick Recreation and Parks is all about. Our department works hard to build programs, services, and special events that help to develop and sustain our community. Residents should know that our team made up of 25 full-time employees and over 500 seasonal and part-time employees engage with our residents in so many ways. Whether you're enjoying time in one of our parks, playing with your kids, or walking the dog, reserving a picnic grove to celebrate a special occasion or birthday, calling in a tree request after a storm, learning a new skill in one of our programs, enjoying the sun at Crystal Springs, making summer memories in our day camp program, developing social skills at a social program with Adaptive Wreck, or loving our town at EB Day or Winter Wonderland. You're interacting with our department. This summer, you're invited to participate in Brunswick the Bear Summer Bonanza. We've got a full slate of events going on all summer to help everyone in East Brunswick make some family memories right here in EB. We also want to invite you, in case you haven't already, download the EBR Wreck app. It's the best way to stay uptodate with everything East Brunswick

recreation, available on the Google Play and Apple Store. And finally, at East Brunswick Parks and Recre, we are committed to enriching the quality of life of our residents by developing and providing affordable activities, programs, community, resources, leisure opportunities, and public spaces. And so, we thank you for the work that we do this month, and we hope to see each and every one of you and our residents in one of our parks or at one of our events very soon. Thank you. If I may call, please. I just wanted to uh first of all thank the council for recognizing and approving uh this uh uh resolution and recognition for the parks and recreation department. And I know that you spent a lot of time describing some of the things. I know John described a lot of the things that they do. Uh, but I don't want anybody in the community thinking that we're just doing this to pat ourselves on the back. The three individuals that stood here tonight have all been recognized by professional organizations in their own field and have been given awards throughout the state. So, this is something that the entire um park and recreation community throughout the state has recognized our leaders, our department and some of the programs that they do as standout programs. So, uh, I really think that for for a second we should all give them a round of applause because they're doing phenomenal stuff [Applause] and and council councilwoman Zambicki, all the all of the negative stuff that you're you're reading about and I and I truly believe that it's it's not a lot, but it is there is negative stuff. The bottom line, people are jealous. That's the bottom line. You you heard

what the program offers. You heard about all the employees and and and the volunteers and and and I know our athletes who are in front of us today and their parents as well. Everyone's visited or done something in this township and there's more to come. Any other comments from council? Okay. Uh next we have our East Brunswick High School lacrosse player, Silus Silas Vegas. um uh and his litany of awards. Um Councilman Wendell, will you tend to this? Sure, you can. I want to invite all of the players and coach up. Okay. Stand with Got it. Just give it a spin. Sure. Yep. Guys, Silus and teammates and come on up. Stand behind uh Councilman Wendell right here in the Deis. Yeah. Keep coming. You can just spread out amongst silence, you can stand here. Makes for a nice Makes for a nice photo. This is for you. Um, listen, I I I have to say, um, having been in involved in lacrosse in this town for many, many years and, you know, having had a break while my boys were playing college and and then when they went um onto their professional careers, uh, I was actually ecstatic when when both my boys and and the opportunity came up for them to be lacrosse coaches at the high school and to be able to go to the games and see these kids play and all the achievements and to watch Silas who was a lights out goalie. Um, you know, and I didn't even know all of these these accomplishments that he's had. But, um, tonight, you know, it was my idea to, you know, honor our student athletes, um, those that reach such high level. and and I'm proud to be standing here

next to Silas, having known him and his family since Silas was quite a young boy. Um, but uh tonight we have a proclamation honors honoring Silus Bo Vega. Whereas Silus Vega began his lacrosse journey with the Eastburns of Blackhawks boys lacrosse program in the third grade where he quickly found his calling as a goalie, which by the way, you have to be a little mental to be a goalie. um a position he would dominate for the next decade with determination, leadership, and sportsmanship. And whereas Silas represented the East Brunswick Blackhost with distinction as a three-time CJ YLL all-star and as a student in the East Brunswick High School, he earned a varsity letter as a freshman and never looked back, culminating in a stellar four-year varsity career. Whereas Silas's high school lacrosse statistics reflect his excellence between the pipes, recording a remarkable 715 career saves. Probably the highest high school ever. Yeah. And steadily improving save percentage is reaching 661, which is off the charts his senior year with a career goals against average of 6.94, a testament to his relentless work ethic and elite goalkeeping skills. Whereas Silas Silas's talent in sportsmanship earned him new numerous accolades including two-time USA lacrosse all-American, GMC sports award recipient, threetime GMC first team all-American, all all conference, two-time GMC first team all red division, two-time GMC MVP, two-time team captain, three-time EBH EBHS defensive MVP, and fourtime varsity letter recipient. Um whereas Silas demonstrated exceptional leadership beyond the field by serving as a liaison between the EB

EB Blackhawks and EBHS lacrosse, organizing youth clinics, offseason leagues, and community scrimmages while also giving back as a goalie coach at Center Court Lacrosse High School program. And whereas Silas excelled as a scholar, maintaining a 3.985 GPA in a rigorous schedule of AP and honors courses, scoring 1360 on the SAT and earning college credits through the Middle Sex County College dual enrollment program. Whereas Silas is also an accomplished musician, having performed at Carnegie Hall in 2023 with the EBHS Orchestra, reflecting his diverse talents and commitment to excellence in all pursuits. Whereas Silas will continue his academic and athletic journey at Wheaten College in Norton, Massachusetts, where he will study biochemistry as a member of the honors college and complete his NCAA Division 3 compete in NCAA Division 3 men's lacrosse. Now therefore, it be it proclaimed that Brad J. Cohen, mayor of the township of East Brunswick, and the town council do hereby recognize and commend Silus Vega for his outstanding achievements as a student athlete, leader, and role model given under his hand and the great seal of the towns of East Brunswick this 23rd day of June in the year 2025. Congratulations [Applause] I have to put you on the spot if you want to say something. Thank you. I don't really have much to say about this, but I just want to give a big shout out and a thanks to Mr. Wendell and the rest of the board for an opportunity to get such a prestigious recognition. uh my teammates, most of them that came out to show support, my

past and pre my present and past coaches and the support of not only my parents but the rest of the parents of the EB lacrosse program. If it wasn't for the support of all you guys, I don't think I'd be here right now doing what I'm doing. Thank you. [Applause] This is yours before we sit down. You want to I'm going to photo photo snap. You want the council? Yeah. We're going to bring the town council up here. Mayor, you guys, let's all get in here. We're going to get a photo taken. We do this all the time. It's not, you know, squeeze in both sides, guys. Leave sideless in the middle and Anybody else wants to come up and take some pictures while we're standing here? How about no flash photography, please? [Laughter] Mom and dad. Mom and dad, you want to get in the picture? Yes, absolutely. Okay. And sister. Sister's coming up, too. She's the most important. How about aunts, uncles, next door neighbors? Blonde hair is something they did when they were in the tournament. by the way. All right, congratulations. [Applause]

Are you gone? Moms and dads and players, uh, there's no there there's no need to return to your seats unless you want a lesson in governance. Then you can stay here. So, we'll take a Oh, boy. Look how fast they're moving now. Room. All right. Thank you. Yeah, he's good. That's a good way to clear a room. Mr. It narrows the crow. We have a presentation from uh Miss Kate Keller from the LL LLC group of Phillips, Prius, Gregel, Lmani, Laanni, and and Hughes regarding the fourth round affordable housing element and fair share plan. Miss Keller, the floor is yours. Great. Um good evening. Hi everybody. Uh mayor, council. Um so tonight we are here to discuss the township's uh adopted by the planning board fourth round housing element and fair share plan. Um, I'm going to give a little a little a little bit of a background about the kind of where we where we how we got here going back uh to the prior rounds of affordable housing, what kind of work we've done thus far on the fourth round and what you're here to do tonight, which is essentially to endorse the plan just as

part of the compliance process. And I'll explain what that means. Um, you know, just no official action beyond that is being taken tonight. Nothing's being um no zoning amendments, no nothing like that is being changed at this time. This is just an endorsement of the initial plan. So, we will um I have a presentation that I've put together um just to discuss we're going to go through the introduction of why we're here and what the history is in the township and in New Jersey in general. Um we're going to go through the timeline that was set for the fourth round of compliance and the process there. um how we determine the fourth round obligation number and then finally the compliance strategy that's proposed for East Brunswick at this time. Um you know one thing that I think to keep in mind through this presentation is that we are this has been a very speedy process um as organized by the state and we are still in the middle of it. Um you know we have a plan that we've put together. um there's going to be opportunities from either uh from challenges from you know things that just change internally to uh finesse the plan to change things in the plan. So this is really just our initial proposed attempt at meeting this obligation. So just going through here. This is something you know it's it's a very it's it's biggest topic around the state all much of the time especially in once we're beginning of these rounds like we are right now affordable housing fourth round here. So just to give a brief history the definition of affordable housing in in New Jersey and this is really taken from the the national HUD and various um um ways of defining this but it's a dwelling affordable to a moderate income household. a lowincome household or a very lowincome household and these are defined as percentages of the regional income limits and we'll get to briefly what those regions are. So this is um you know it's a threecount region that middle middle sex county

east Brunswick is a part of and so the the affordability index is based on that. So that's just the the initial definition there so you know what we're talking about when we say affordable housing. Then the big question, why does East Brunswick, why does every municipality in the state have to provide affordable housing? This goes back to two lawsuits that um you've probably heard the name of, probably familiar with. Mount Laurel 1, 1975, and then subsequently what was called Mount Laurel 2 in 1983. The initial Mount Laurel decision, which these still stand, this is what forms the basis of the state's Fair Housing Act. The Mount Laurel one decision, the court determined that local zoning laws that violated, it excluded lowincome h families, whether that was only by providing single family zoning, whether that was, you know, not providing opportunity for multif family or any other type of affordable housing, was exclusionary zoning and violated the state's constitution. um because it did not provide this realistic opportunity and it was not um I believe equal equal protection in in that sense. So all New Jersey municipalities must plan for zone and take affirmative actions to provide for the realistic opportunity for their fair share and we'll talk a little bit about what those actions look like. That's things like inclusionary zoning. That's providing for units here and there. So that's that's really what the obligation is still. So then Mount Laurel 2 in 1983 reaffirmed this and it established the concept of um present need which is the amount of units in the municipality that need to be rehabilitated and the prospective need which is new units that the each town is obligated to construct in order to meet projections for low and moderate income housing. and Mount Laurel 2 also established what's known as the builder's remedy lawsuits and we're I'll explain what that means um shortly as

well but that's really provided an um a a mechanism for builders developers to um to litigate when a town was not in compliance with their affordable housing regulations. So, Fair Housing Act 1985, the original one cottified these rules and it created KA, the Council on Affordable Housing. And the goal of COA was that it was going to be an administrative agency that would develop the rules, develop the procedures, set the regulations for municipalities so that there would be a way that they knew they were following and they were satisfying the obligations. So, that's where these housing regions for calculations of the need and income etc. came into play. and it also created a process for reviewing and certifying that the need had been met. So COA was established 1985. Um so this is one of the one of the results of COA was the establishment of affordable housing regions. So they are based on two to four counties typically three and four now which exhibit social economic income similarities. Obviously they're also geographically similar. Um, and as seen here, East Brunswick is in region three with Somerset and Hunter counties. So, when we talk about the fair share that the East Brunswick has to provide, that's that's the fair share of this region's perspective need for affordable housing. It's not for the whole state because they they understand that different municip different counties, different regions have different needs. Like for example, deep south um region six has a different um you know, different types of municipalities than region three. So the the density that you know the economic status things like that. So that's what the housing region is supposed to accomplish. Um and then here we have you know going back to the um Mount Laurel 2 what is a builder's remedy? And this is a term that is thrown around a lot but this is what is this is basically the what happens what can potentially happen if a

town does not comply with their um affordable housing requirements. So, and this is a court imposed sightsp specific relief where a litigant that's typically a developer um files a lawsuit against municipality and the court typically if there's no protections in place will rule in favor of this developer and what they may be permitted to build has nothing to do with the underlying zoning. It often doesn't have to do with the context of the site. It has to do almost exclusively with what the housing need is determined to be. So, this is something you want to avoid. Um it's difficult, costly, and they're often successful developers are because if you're get if you're subject to this type of lawsuit, it means that you did not comply with COA. Um excuse me, or with the affordable housing rounds. That is not we are not at risk of this right now. I'll explain to this why and how this all factors into the fourth round, but the number one rule here is that it's always in a municipality's best interest to avoid this because you can essentially lose control of your zoning. So here is just history of COA the prior rounds affordable housing rounds and how East Brunswick has complied. Um first round consent order was in place 1984 that took the township through 1996. Second round 1994 1999 township was granted substantive certification that they had met their requirements in 1997. Third round 1999 to 2025. This was the last round and this is where things got a little complicated. Um, essentially the last rules for KA were adopted in the 90s and they were supposed to be updated at various points. They were delayed then they were invalidated and the rules were not adopted. So COA was not very functional or functional at all from approximately the late 90 around 2000 to 2015. And at that point the state and the jur and the judiciary

found that they were non-functioning and returned that back to the courts and that was the process the last round. It was chaotic. It was sort of ad hoc. um you know there was a lot of things that were constantly changing and moving at that time and the idea was um you know it was a scramble for a lot of municipalities. There are towns you know that's are just this year or have not even yet sub substantively certified their third round. So it was very complicated and the idea of the recently adopted 2024 amended fair housing act was to change that was to uh m make sure that the rules were clearer and expediently put into place. So in for the third round uh east Brunswick did reach a settlement agreement adopted the fair share housing plan and were granted judgment of compliance 2016. So fourth round 2025 2035 this is where we are um and this is what was set into place by the law that was passed last year. So fourth round we're moving ahead timeline and the process. So I'm just going to go over what the baseline is for the fourth round and the work that we the professionals the elected officials what we've been doing to make sure that the township is compliant. So amended fair housing act this was the law that was adopted last year March 2024. Um it was intended to provide a framework for all of this for eliminated KA prohibited COA really from coming back and it provided some clarity on methodology and calculations and for our purposes you know what we're going to talk about tonight is that it created a um a method of challenging of really of um of certifying called the affordable housing dispute resolution program. This is a program within the judiciary. It's um operated by the the um administrative office of the courts in Trenton and it

has mediation from retire via retired judges that throughout the state and then for each county there is a Mount Laurel judge who signs off on everything and I'll go through how we dealt with that earlier this year. Um it also established timelines and required deadlines in order to for municipalities to retain their immunity against those builder's remedy lawsuits. Um and then one thing you know that was a change policy-wise from the prior rounds was that the the legislation was spec specifically encouraged you know redevelopment of property specifically commercial office retail underperforming properties. It looked um it recommended or supported family housing really things which really just means anything that's available to a family with children. It can be onebedroom, two-bedroom, threebedroom um and supportive and special needs housing provision in municipalities. So those are all you know just examples of compliance mechanisms that we're going to be using in this round. So this is just um you know a lot of information here but this is sort of the calendar that we've been working off of. Um and you'll see that the this starts everything in purple is dates that we've already hit. The light green is where we are today and then we have the future. So October the DCA Department of Community Affairs initially issued the municipal obligations. January 2025, the township adopted our our obligation. We'll and I'll go into detail about how how that was done. Um challenges took place in um February. We went we went to the settlement and went went through the affordable housing dispute resolution program in a March and April. And by June 30th, as long as municipalities adopt and endorse the housing element and fair share plan, they are immune from builder's remedy lawsuits. So we are on track for that. Um the future you know we'll see how this is where things are going to be subject to change but there's going to be challenges which we anticipate in all municipalities not just east Brunswick

anywhere can be challenged over the summer resolution by the end of the year and then final adoption of the implementing ordinances is scheduled to take place by March 2026. So that's um you know another nine months ahead of this where things are you know I think our we we're confident in our plan but there's also going to be subject to change. Um so here's where we are now and just to go through um prior round I'm not going to go through this in detail but this was a required component of the fourth round plan we had to look at and just you know reertify really that we did comply with these previous rounds. So this was the earliest 87 to 999 or this was excuse me the second round 648 units the township created 735 carried over 87 to the third round. Third round because this was such a large period of time the obligation was 1067 units as a result of the settlement agreement. Um and the township's been really successful with this. um either a total of 994 units have been approved or constructed and the remaining 73 that are left between that and 1067 we believe are still um valid and developable for future affordable housing. So we will not be making changes to those and I'll go through that later. Um and finally, and this is some good news, is that in on top of the that uh 167, there was an additional 63 credits that the township realized above the third round obligation um that can be moved carried forward to the fourth round. So that's just the background there. And this again, this is the chart of the third round. This is just sort of for reference. We need to come back to it, but again, this was things that were required for the plan. So determining the fourth round obligation um I'm going to here I'm going to go through how we arrived at the number that have we have

to provide which is 296 and where we started what what the process was in order to get there and then finally we're going to talk about how we were proposing to comply with it. So, as mentioned in that time schedule chart that I had up there, in October, DCA issued their non-binding fourth round municipal obligation numbers. This was a big old spreadsheet and a big old PDF full of methodology that talked about um you know, basically a bunch of they crunched a bunch of census data. They crunched tax data. They did a review of land use and development um in order to get these numbers. And in East Brunswick, the present need was, which is the rehabilitation of a unit's obligation, was 170. And the prospective need, which is the new construction obligation, was at 314. So perspective need is the big number to focus on here. And this is the share of the regional needs. So again, going back to region three, Middle Sex, Hunter, Somerset, based on DCA's projections, the estimate was that over the 10-year fourth round period, that region would require 11,64 units. So East Brunswick's share of that was calculated to be 314 based on a combination of factors. One is the equalized non-residential value. that basically has to do with your commercial um land use value. It's a way of measure. It's it's sort of meant to be an equivalent for jobs in a community. Um and that's just based really on the tax roles. So we didn't have you know no issue we took no issue with their calculation there. The next is income capacity which is a measure of the median income in your municipality as compared to the lowest um income municipality in the region. So again this is really just based on specific data sets that we could not we took no

objection to those. Um and then finally the last factor is land capacity and you know just just to the each of these is represented as a percentage of the total share of the region. It's a little complicated but I think it you know it makes sense how we got this why we decided to get this number why we strove to get this number down and where we ended up where we were. So, the land capacity was measured by DCA as just kind of like clumps of developable land throughout the the township. Um, it does not mean parcels that could be developed. It didn't have to do with the zoning of it. It looked at things like, you know, whether it was already developed, whether it was um a right of way, what the land use was because it's really only supposed to consider vacant land, which can mean, you know, an open space parcel. Um because vacant means like for for example if um it's because it's based on land use land cover data from NJD and it get it gets very granular and it's rather inaccurate because they were doing this from Trenton and they were trying their best but you're doing this and you're doing this with environmental constraints too. You're doing this for the whole state. They could not look at every speck of every town. So that's where uh we stepped in with Keith um Keith Kip's office with a lot of help from them and we did a thorough review of that data and if you look at the bottom here they indicated that there were 175 developable acres per that strict definition in the township and we reduced that to 44.7 um by you know going through and seeing you know this this is classified as vacant but it's actually the township um it's a it's a water tower you know things like that it's a sewer month. So, and that's just one example of some of the things that we did there. So, the council, this council adopted a resolution 25-763 in January and accepted the present need number of 170 and uh this was a binding resolution and sought to reduce the

prospective need from 314 to 265 and the 265 is the equivalent um percentage reduction of that land capacity factor for the whole region and all of that. So we had to submit all of this methodology to the state um and all of our details of our recalculation and the methodological errors method methodological I think I got that. Um so that was where we ended up with initially as of January binding resolution 265. However again going back to the the timeline that was set up once that was out there that meant that it could be challenged. it could be challenged by any interested party. Um, in some municipalities that was the Fair Share Housing Center, which is an advocacy group in South Jersey that, um, you know, was really like a watchdog for this throughout the state. Fair Share Housing Center did not challenge our number. However, the New Jersey Builders Association did. Um, this is um, basically the trade association that represents um, mostly residential home builders, but really developers throughout the state. and they challenged not just East Brunswick, they challenged every municipality who had um uh proposed recalculating their number. So, it was sort of like a blanket challenge across the board. Um because of that, we proceeded through the affordable housing dispute resolution program and this involved a settlement conference held with the um with retired judge Jacobson who um was kind of the mediator there. We have a special adjudicator formerly in the last round they were called special masters. Those are professional planners who are experts in affordable housing. And so, you know, we kind of made our case to them. We um the we were um on the call with the builder association representatives at certain points and we did not reach a settlement there because the builders association was not willing to give. They wanted the full 314 units and we said we don't think we're we

don't think that that's appropriate for the reasons that we stated. So, we had to go back. We had to wait for the judge to make a decision. And Judge Jacobson came back a couple weeks later with recommendation for 296 units. So, higher than we had hoped, but still lower than the 314 that we had initially been given. Um, and this was confirmed by Judge McCloskey, who's the Middle Sex County Mount Laurel judge. And then we finally got that confirmed number on April 24th. Bless you. So, just go to Bottom line, final obligation for the fourth round, present need of 170, prospective need of 296. And these numbers at this point, just it, barring any sort of major policy change, these numbers are fixed. These are what we're going to be working with for the remainder of this round. So, how are we going to meet that? And here is our compliance strategy that we are proposing here, 2025 to 2035. Present need, as I stated, is 170 units. This is um the rehabilitation obligation. Um this is done in the past. It's been done largely in collaboration with East Brunswick Community Housing Corporation. Um where they provide um and Susan's here and you know she does a lot of they do a lot of incredible work with East Brunswick Community Housing Corporation that has set this township honestly really put you ahead really put the township ahead of the game. many other municipalities in terms of provision of affordable housing in past rounds and setting us up on a great foot for the fourth round. So they do some rehab there and then there's also as of the third round the the um the township is partners with the county to provide the housing rehabilitation program and this is a Middle Sex County program. It's actually run the administrative agent is a another affordable housing um administrator nonprofit I believe that that does that. Um and that is something

that is eligible to all township residents. Um you I'm not sure if there's income limit or if if you if they're eligible for the income limits there or whatever is needed. Um and that really looks at replacing major systems in the home. So, you know, part of this is that over the 10 years, 170 units for rehabilitation is not um, you know, we don't think that's going to be a problem and just, you know, encourage the council, encourage everybody to ensure that these programs are, you know, made public as much as possible and also we'll keep an eye out as new things come to come into play. Um, because there is some money not so not so much for rehab, but the state is aware that there's a lot of units that have to be created and maintained and rehabilitated in the next 10 years. So that's the for the present need and then prospective need the future. So 296 units. Um on top of that we're continue to provide realistic opportunity for 73 affordable units on inclusionary sites from the third round. Um these are um tracks on Cranberry Road that were reszoned at that time um and that have not been developed but we you know given the current conditions and just you know we don't see any issue with keeping them as is and we continue to meet our obligation because again the township has to provide the realistic opportunity and by reszoning those that's providing the realistic opportunity. So we are in continuing compliance there. Um again as mentioned there were also 63 credits that we identified that were over and above the third round plan which I have listed up here. Um 13 of those were supportive and special needs uh rental bedrooms. So that's total of 26 credits and we'll go into the bonus credits that are available as well. Um then there is market to affordable family rentals which is a program of East Bronzo Community Housing Corporation in which

they purchase um units that are for sale and they convert deed restrict them and convert them to affordable rentals. So there was um there was a requirement for 48 units as part of to be acquired as or as part of the last round and the as of the time of 2016 I believe that they had acquired 38 of those and so there's been another 20 I think there's 21 one more is in the works right now. So this um so there was over and above the third round requirements um extended affordability controls for the commons at Kingswood station and we have four extra inclusionary units were constructed at legacy place as part of the redevelopment. So 63 additional credits and then going to go through the rest. We have various compliance mechanisms such as some of those are listed above and then we have the new um proposed um sites. We're not going to be proposed. We are going to be talking about very generally because they are in the plan. I I don't think we should be talking about proposed sites in public. The I will leave this to you. It was discussed at the planning board meeting and it's it's public record. All of it came out of the planning board. Yeah. Well, I I don't think it should be public yet, but you know, if it's already out there, it's out there. Joe, you have a comment on that one? You can. So, it's it's the the housing element in fair plan has already been filed with the state because the planning board adopted it. Um, so it's readily available. It's posted online. Um, nothing in there is really confidential in any way. Thank you. Yes. And we we do have one change that I'll discuss from the planning board. Um, but I will say that the sites that are going to we're going to be discussing tonight, everyone is they are they are aware. this is not not a surprise to the property owners who will be going forward. Um so just before we go into this just briefly talk about bonus

credits. This is something that you're going to see up on the screen. Um and it's a little complicated but um the ch the bonus credit structure was changed from the last round. Previously the big winner was that if you had a family rental unit it was a one for one bonus credit. They got rid of that in the new legislation, but they gave you a ton more bonus credits if you can figure out where to use them. Um, we're doing very well with bonus credits. We actually are maxed out because you can only you you do up to 25% of your obligation. So 74 bonus credits are available to the township, which means that um 296 units minus 74 bonus credits means that for 200 provision of 222 new units, you're actually getting credit for 296. So well that c that's part that's included in that calculation. Yes. Um so we'll talk about how these apply but you know special needs housing supportive housing market to affordable 100% affordable and then there's a lot of opportunity for um half credits for redevelopment of commercial sites and sites within a half mile of transit etc. So there also is some requirements for unit types and I put this up here now because this is something again where we do have some flexibility over the next few months as we you know work on confirming the plan as the there are a lot of unit types that are available within the sites that I'm going to talk about um only a few but um and as long as we stay within these parameters then there's flexibility for what can be provided you know for example for site where we, you know, we may be proposing it for now. We think it may be family affordable rentals. We have enough family units in this plan that those could be able to be subbed out if the opportunity presents itself with um you know, veterans housing or some other type of supportive housing or special needs housing. So, you know, that's just different. There's a lot of options here

as long as we are within these thresholds and as of now, we well exceed these thresholds. So, and it's really really the idea with all of these is that you have rentals available and that you make sure that towns have some availability for families. Um, and that is not an issue here with the plan in place. So, going through some of the compliance mechanisms, some of these I already discussed, but the extension of affordability controls was done for Kingswood Station. There were nine nine units that were not extended in 2016 that were identified and those were extended. So that means that those for sale units will remain affordable for another 30 years. Um market to affordable program again um community housing corporation 10 have been done so far as the surplus and we're proposing 10 additional over the over the 10-year period of the fourth round. So that will be a total of 40 credits that are available there. um supportive and special needs housing 13 have been provided and as I just said and as I have it listed on here that's 26 credits in total and there's the potential we don't have any listed in the plan right now because we're not aware of um you know the specific opportunities but if there's the potential for additional bedrooms additional units additional developments of this type as the plan is formalized um compliance mechanism assisted living facilities these um since I think about 2002 all assisted living facilities in New Jersey are required to set aside 10% of their beds for Medicaid patients and those beds um are considered as part of meeting the municipality's affordable housing obligation. So since 2017, care when which is when the last plan ended um or excuse me, last plan was prepared. Care 1 has been approved and constructed 10 credits there. Bright View has been approved 10 credits there. And then the

East Brunswick Assisted Living, which was formerly CSH, which is now um I believe Benchmark is the new operator's name. They're before the zoning board for amended approval, but we have every inclination that they will continue with that project. So 30 credits were available through assisted living facilities. And again, if any other ones come to the town over the next 10 years, those would also be eligible for additional credits either for the next round or the fourth round. Um then here we have a proposed 100% affordable development with a municipal contribution. This is something that is just in the beginning stages. Um this would be the township would be collaborating with a nonprofit developer to provide approximately 26 units between 2530 most likely. Um as of now the proposal is town houses on the former Sixth Street bus terminal site. This site is um located in an industrial zone right now, but it's next it's adjacent to a residential zone. And actually it's a it's a there's a stream corridor in the rear that really provides a huge buffer from industrial uses. Um so that's a good opportunity for you know being able to connect it more to the community and not um you know putting an industrial use here which currently at current zoning it could go there. So this would be a 100% affordable development with the municipality would sponsor it and that they would be um working with the nonprofit developer to give the land and that entitles the plan to uh double bonus credits. So if it's 26 units that'll be 26 bonus credits for 52 in total. Um so that is a you know this is something that details will be coming into place. Um we had we will have to you know there'll be many other for all this project and anything else that comes to fruition. All of these will have to be reszoned which would entail you know full um public hearing before council planning board everything. So

this is just very very initial phase of this process and none of this is you know no actions being taken to do this tonight. It's just our proposed compliance. Um second is more inclusionary zoning and redevelopment. And this is where we do have one change from the plan that was reviewed by the planning board. We have eliminated one site that was proposed for inclusion then which was the route 18 lumber/ plaza hill office building um that was that is no longer considered um to present a realistic opportunity at this time and will be replaced. Um one option again we have not we have not um formalized this via zoning. nothing's proposed to be changed. Um would be potentially Ferris Farms over on Cranberry Road, which um there was prior interest in that for a townhouse development, something like that. So that is a potential site that would be include included for inclusionary zoning. And then the other two sites that we have would be the um Brunswick Square Mall potential residential redevelopment and the Arisa property behi on Main Street uh just um west of 18 behind the the um the the development that was part of the last that was constructed in about 2020 2022. So again all of these are at the very nent stages of what would be there. Um our goal is that all the development will be um it will all be complimentary to the surrounding area. It will be um the density will be appropriate for the sites. Um and it will still in combination provide approximately 120 units, 45 bonus credits, 160 credits. And this is um you know this is kind of the the the something that will be you know this is you'll see this whether it's a redevelopment plan for the mall. this is something else that will come way before the council several times. Um, so there is a lot of opportunity for

both public comment for all of these parcels. Um, and everyone will, you know, it'll all be part of the public record what's going to go here once those once that's determined. And to be honest, you know, we don't really know what that's going to look like until we get this plan formalized and see if we any challenges to it. But this is what we are proposing now. So the density is to be determined and the set aside is to be determined if they are inclusionary zones. So that is really the summary of what we have. Um so if you look up here, this is everything that I just went through. I know it's it's a it's a lot of numbers. It's a lot of numbers. If you look at, for example, the bonus credit table, that's doesn't add up to 74, but we're capped at 74. Um but, you know, that is really the summary of where we are. what has been done so far, what we are proposing and what the next steps will be. So, you know, if happy to answer any questions um you know whether about you know where we are right now, what this the council is doing tonight or what needs to be done in the future. So, thank you all for your time. [Applause] Council, any questions? I have one. Yes, you could have in the timeline that you presented um you were talking about from now until March of 2026, right? Going forward like the challenges what what would be some of the challenges that would potentially that we would have to face? Sure. So, it would be similar to in some ways it would be similar to the the similar parties that challenged their numbers earlier. So, we anticipate um maybe the New Jersey Builders Association um maybe Fairshare Housing, maybe a separate developer. Um you know, like for as an example, there's some towns that had more developers interested in properties than they had than they had units that

needed to be built. And basically what these groups, whether it's organizations or de developers, they're going to look through the plan, see if they can find flaws. Um whether that is, you know, you know, some some may be in good faith reviews, some may not be. Um we'll see what what it turns out like. And then they have to file a challenge in due time stating what they think the plan's deficiencies are. And then we'll go through that process again with the um the dispute resolution program, the judge, etc. So one and done doesn't work, right? No. All right. Thank you. Helpful. Mhm. The uh uh Miss Keller, the presentation was outstanding and overwhelming. I don't know how you retain all that information, but uh with much difficulty. It's a credit to your professionalism. Thank you. I did want to recognize uh quite a few uh people in the audience who have a interest in the welfare of our community and they would be uh Susan Fine from the housing corporation, Wilbur Pan, Mary Pan, Wilbur is a board of ed member and Mary's part of the planning board, Mr. Larry Saxs who was an attorney for the planning board, Charlie Hel former president of the uh chairman of the zoning board. uh Keith Kip who you mentioned quite quite frequently and I hope I didn't even Oh, I see Jeff Smith from the zoning board. So, we see a lot of people from the community who have a uh vested interest in uh the direction that we're going. My questions were were all answered. So, uh, I was very serious about, um, veteran housing as this all as this as this all comes to fruition. Um, special needs housing,

and there's there's no one who's going to disagree with me on those two issues. Um, the bonus plan that you talked about at our planning board meeting as well as tax subsidies. And the only question that resonates is going to it's going to be the public relations portion of this plan here in East Brunswick to make sure that we comply with not just these numbers because they're numbers, but for the welfare of the of the community. Uh I would like to ask though if we could get a hard copy of the PowerPoint presentation. I'm looking at Mr. Kip. if uh each one of the the uh council members could have that in their in their notes. So, whenever you get around to that, that's not that's not tomorrow. But again, thank you very much, Mr. Killer. Thank you for your time, Council President. Oh, Mayor, I didn't see you. Thank you, Council President. Again, thank you for the presentation. You heard a good portion of this the other day at the planning board. Uh as most of you know, some of you have been through this the last round. So, uh, this is a controversial topic as Kate said from the very beginning. Uh, it is hotly talked about throughout the state. It is hotly talked about on social media circles here in the township and the decisions that we make, which is only the start of this now. Eventually, you're going to have to decide on the zoning changes for whatever plan uh we go ahead with. uh these this process uh is just very difficult to understand and it gets very often complicated and misinterpreted in the public and uh I don't think that the biggest issue people have is with the need for affordable housing. Anybody that has a kid coming out of college and wants to try to live in New Jersey or just tries

to upgrade and move into New Jersey, it's a very expensive state. Um, I think the biggest problem they have is the number of fullpric units that come in when a builder sets aside a percentage for their affordables. And then we bring in the full price units and now we're talking about a large number of apartments that are coming into the township and that's what gets everybody um, I think upset. Uh, as I mentioned earlier, there's things that the state could have done that they don't do that I think puts us in this position, uh, most towns, not just East Brunswick, uh, where, um, they could have looked at people that no longer qualify for units, and we don't do a good job of doing that. Uh so people who are in units and no longer really meet the income requirements, we don't do a good job of following up on those individuals and allowing them the opportunity to leave and make those units available to people that qualify. Uh but that all having been said, we have a phenomenal housing uh fund uh community housing corporation here that has done this almost back to the beginning of the Mount Royal decision in 1975. I think our housing corporation's been around about that long. And um while it may not have started for that reason, it started because of the Victory Gardens. Uh but ultimately it served the purpose of helping us provide affordable housing and keeping our number very reasonable uh and in a way that gives people who need these units dignity that the whole world doesn't need to know where they are, who they are, where they're living. And they've done that seamlessly for decades. Uh and so that we owe them a debt of gratitude. And you look at other towns that are similarly sized to ours, if you looked at the fourth round

obligation that came out, they were significantly higher than what our obligation was here in East Brunswick. Same thing, by the way, for the third round. um some towns um argued and went to court and um and such as uh I'm not going to name the towns, but uh and they were penalized for having done that because they weren't keeping up with with their obligation. Uh and so uh when you look at our number and and really look at that massive spreadsheet uh the number that we have well we we will we will do what we're obligated to do. Uh and um and I think that we're here uh really to start that first process right now with the simple uh adoption of of this plan that will be worked on over the next couple of months. Uh but we absolutely under no circumstance want to be in a position ever where builders who already demonstrated to us that they weren't even happy with the with the uh 265 that we thought was reasonable. They couldn't agree with that. Took us to court. um not going to ever let the builders have control of this township by going to builders remedies which essentially allows them to go to the court to to uh contest anything that we don't agree to and then bypass entirely our land use boards which I believe have done a phenomenal job of making sure that we keep to our obligations and keep to our master plan. uh that's uh that's their role and failure for us to adopt this tonight puts us in a position of allowing builders to come in and do basically anything they want in this township. I can't imagine how you would

want to do that. So, um thank you again for your presentation and for explaining this complicated topic to the public. My pleasure. Mr. Chris Gulo, any final thoughts because you did play a big role in this whole process. Just really a big team effort including you. Uh, council president when um we did have to appear in court uh hats off to Kate, too. Sometimes we found out at uh 3:00 one afternoon that we had to be in court the next morning at 10 and then we found out that they changed it to 1:30. you know, we're all sitting around and uh it was nice that we got the support of the council president. I think that helped out with the um special adjudicator adjudicator that you know we had uh administration there with our planner and that the council president was in presence. So I think they were were impressed that not uh not only that the administration and our planner uh the mayor and and the governing body was actively involved in making sure this the one thing that I also want to point out to the general public affordable housing is not section 8 housing. That often gets confusing with people. There's not housing vouchers. There's none none of that that goes out. I know Kate knows vary the the distinct difference of this. The importance once again as the mayor said getting this done tonight is we have a June 30th cutoff date tomorrow. Hopefully when this gets approved uh Joseph will take the approved resolution and the uh adopted plan that that we have before us and we'll submit it to the court.

as followup to that. And each one of these organizations, these watch groups will be are sitting there waiting to look at that and they're also sitting there waiting for to see who doesn't submit it on June 30th. Now, I know uh quite a few other towns have submitted their plan. Joe and his team at Hogland have done four or five of them already. So, I'm confident they'll get it submitted tomorrow expeditiously because he knows I'm going to call him about 2:30 to ensure that it is and I'm going to want the receipt. But just thanks to everybody on the team, the planning board, Mr. Saxs, naturally the mayor, and you, the council, that's also been very supportive and seeking to be knowledgeable on this topic. It is a difficult topic. I mean, I've been doing this job for over 20 years, and I've gone through this process in three different municipalities. So, uh, that's all I have to say. And once again, thank to everybody for their support and, uh, everybody in the room that I won't mention again, but it it it's arduous. Council president. Yes, please. I I thought that was a ter terrific presentation. It it clarified a lot of questions I've always had about the process and what was going on. Um, I don't want to belabor this this issue because I know it's a presentation, but um, I do think the public might just want a brief explanation of how these properties are identified as the planning board. How do they come about deciding which properties are ones that they want to seek out for redevelopment? Sure. So, the the the only properties, you know, there's really only three that are part of this plan now. Um, the first it with the the mall, the Brunswick Square Mall. Um there as far you know I don't know the details of it but I know that the the pro the property owner was interested in pursuing a mixeduse development there.

Um that's we we started off by declaring it an area needed re redevelopment earlier this year. Um no redevelopment plan has been you know proposed nothing like that. So there's still, you know, a lot of debate, you know, not debate, but, you know, there's still a lot of details that will be ironed out there, including, you know, how much of the site will be used for residential, like what kind of residential that might be, whether it'll be inclusionary, whether it'll be some kind of supportive housing, something like that. But so there's a lot of options there. Um, the Arisa site on Main Street, that was also something where the um property owner was interested and approached the municipality. Um, they approached us with what they wanted on the site. We said, um, okay, we'll think about it. Um, but we think it's an appropriate site for affordable housing and we'll be working with them over the next few months to um, you know, see what work on a density, what this exact set aside will be, etc. Um, and then finally for there's a few other sites that we had looked at around the township. Um, and initially we had looked at some on Route 18 just because it's centrally located. That has not um not not we that that's been eliminated at this point. We're going to have to formally amend the plan in the next couple weeks, but as long as we hit the June deadline, we're fine. And again, no formal action. And I believe the owners of Ferris Farms, um, they had previously been interested in redeveloping it. Um, and that under under a different developer, that person, as far as I'm aware, they are no longer involved, but the property owners also are interested in pursuing this. So, um, that's how those came to be. Um uh so we you know we feel confident that those are um you know everyone but we're going to have a cooperative negot process in setting forward you know how they're going to be reszoned. Thank you. Sure. Sure. And I would also note you know and this goes to what the mayor stated um those are as of now those are the only properties where we are proposing um inclusionary which means you know one about usually 20% set

aside. So, and that's um that's only about half the plan. So, the remainder of the plan as of now and we have there's room for to change this even more so can be met without um you know that type of inclusionary development that that gives you four market rate units for every or for every affordable. So I think that that that was a goal and also looking at um you know not not focusing on you know developing um big green field sites you know open space things like that really focusing on redevelopment as much as possible per the um state directives. So okay thank you very much Kelly. Sure. Thank you all. Appreciate your time. Thank you. and our audience, you can either you guys can scadaddle if you choose to or you can hang around for our continued lesson in governance. Having said that, we're going to move on. Um, we're good. Everybody good? Okay. Council, we have an ordinance for a second reading in a public hearing. Township clerk, please read ordinance number 25-24 into the record. An ordinance of the Township of East Brunswick, County of Middle Sex, State of New Jersey, amending chapter 135, article 9, health spa and related uses, and chapter 228, zoning of the township code. And may I have a motion to approve? Motion to approve and a second. Second. I'll now open this matter to the public. Is there anyone from the public wishing to address the council president on this issue? Seeing none, we'll close the public port for roll call, please. Council member Hall, yes. Councilman Wendell, yes. Councilwoman Winston, yes. Councilwoman Zimbicki, yes. And Council President M. Yes. Moving on to our reports section of our meeting. Mayor Conn. Uh, yes, Council President. Thank you. Two quick things. one a as school gear comes to a close uh many people know that we start

to ramp up our uh road work that we're doing in the township to include some of the roads that we would deliberately held off because of the fact that we didn't want to interfere with uh busing and transportation of of students. Now that the school year is closing, you'll start to see more of those roads being done now. And um and finally, since it is the close of the school year, uh I wanted to wish my hearty congratulations to all those who are part of the graduating class of 2025. So, congratulations. Township uh township um business administrator. I have nothing else to say. Okay. Thank you. Our township attorney. Uh nothing to report. Okay. Township clerk, Miss Lawful. Nothing to report. Okay. committee council committee or board reports. Yes, please. Just real quick, we have a few resolutions for tonight. Um that was a highlight of our last meeting um doing one basketball court and two tennis courts at Pine Ridge Park with a new material that has a 50-year structural warranty. So, that's something that, you know, is definitely going to benefit the township and as well as that same material is going to be used for um Lape Park in also doing the tennis courts and there'll be a pickle ball um overlay on it as well. Um, and just one other piece, the um, Country Lane playground that we voted on a while ago, the the equipment has been removed and it is or is in the process of being removed and it is slated to um, start with the new equipment right after the 4th of July. Thank you, Council President. Please, um, what is this new material we're using? It's like a concrete is how they descending concrete. Oh, it's not new. We don't Well, new for us. No, it's not. We we've used it in a couple other

spaces and we've had successes with it. Yeah. So, posture concrete, Jimmy. Yeah. Okay. I just I didn't think I was surprised if we're moving away from the post tension based upon the success we had. No, it's been working out good. We had a couple cracks and easier to repair and and so on. So, uh we're going to continue on with that, especially over at Lenipe. So, both parks are getting the overlay for pickleball. Oh, good. Both. Yep. We're We're getting the best stuff. We are. There we go. Okay. I'll now open the meeting to the public. Miss Laughful, could you read our public comment statement? The public comment portion of our meeting is to allow the public to bring to the council's attention their concerns or comments. In accordance with NJSA 10 col4-12A and the East Brunswick rules of council, the council asked the public to limit their comments to 5 minutes or less. At the conclusion of the statements or questions from a member of the public, the council president at his discretion may choose to respond or not respond. Thank you. Is there anyone from the public wishing to address the council president? Please. Naltofell, Tolluk Drive, East Brunswick. So I'm once again standing before this council to demand that East Brunswick immediately sever its sister city relationship with Yavn and Israeli city complicit in apartheite occupation and genocide of Palestinians. It it is appalling that many residents in our town don't even know we have symbolically tied to a city in a violent

settler colonial Israeli regime. That silence and ignorance must end now. Maintaining this relationship is not neutral. It is an endorsement of crimes against humanity. Israel is not just a danger to Palestinians anymore. It is a destabilizing force in the entire Middle East and increasingly a threat to the United States itself. Our government funnels billions of dollars every year to fund Israelis brutal occupation, ethnic cleansing, and now open warfare across the region from Syria to Lebanon to Yemen and just this week to Iran. Think about that. Our tax dollars are burning refugee camps, flattening hospitals, starving children in Palestine, and then killing them in hundreds every day while they line up to get aid. I am seeing videos of Israel literally using gun machine to gun down starving Palestinians who are in line to get food and they are starving. So this is the so the so these people who live in Yam maybe they are part of that IDF because apparently every Israeli needs to serve in IDF. So they are all complicit in this. Um, and now Israel wants more. Not just our money, but the lives of our soldiers. This weakened reckless, unprovoked attack on Iran carried out with US weapons is a terrifying sign of how far Israel is willing to drag us into this wars. Who pays the price? Not the Israeli government. It's American soldiers and American families with our taxpayer dollars. Iran is not our enemy. It is Israel's enemy because it it refuses to go to apartheid and refuses to normalize ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. While corrupt Arab regimes have sold their soul, Iran has not and for that it is targeted by Israel and USA. It is long past time to recognize what Israel has become. A rogue genocidal state, a threat to justice, a threat to peace, a threat to us. East Brunswick must not

lend its name or goodwill to this regime. End this shameful sister city agreement with Yamn. Cut all symbolic ties that stand on the right side of the history with humanity, with justice, and with the people fighting for their freedom. And I really hope that um I'm coming here every week. I really hope that you just take five minutes to just go back home and just see what's going on. And if that doesn't melt your heart to do something that's in your control, we cannot end the war. But we are just responsible for for our own action. So Mr. Meaw, what action can you do? Like what is the thing that is in your power that you can do? Just do that. And we are all responsible for the individual actions. That's it. Thank you so much. Anyone else wishing to address the council president please Tom Ingressani dear field road Mr. Mayor count council Mr. President, I heard good news on the way here today. The war in Israel and Iran is going to be over as for the having reached an agreement and Trump considers this war within the next 12 hours to be ended and a peace agreement will be made. I don't know if you heard about it, but I was driving in. Maybe you're up here. So, that is good news. Um the other thing is um do anybody know when the diner High Point diner will open up? No, I don't think we have anything. I noticed Red Robin closed down, right? And uh you know and uh Oh, I asked two weeks ago about that increase we're supposed to get in electric rates of 16%. But the government of Jersey is supposed to give you credit every month for the

next six months. What does that come out to? $100 for the six months? I mean, I don't know. Anybody know the answer? Can't help you on that one, Tom. All right. Because I'm hearing all stupid things like it's going to be $30 for two months and then spread out till January, February. Mhm. But all right, I just want to tell you we have good news with the Iraq and I mean Israel and Iran. Thank you, Mr. Husani. Any else for a public portion? I'll close the public portion. Uh council, we have one resolution that's on a with a separate vote. Township clerk, could you plead resolution 25- 218 through um we'll do that separately. Right. Yes. Resolution of the township of East Brunswick County of Middle Sex, State of New Jersey approving June 2025 housing element and fair share plan. May I have a motion to approve? Motion and a second. Second. Roll call, please. Council member Hall, yes. Councilman Wendell, yes. Councilwoman Winston, yes. Councilwoman Zimbicki, yes. And Council President Mackoy, yes. Move on to the consent agenda. Um, can we separate 2519? 2519. Also 25 221 and 225 222. 20 I'm sorry, Denish. 25221 and 25222. May I have a motion for resolutions? I don't have the number in front of me. 220 say all of it except for Oh, all all of

the uh except for 219 22 except for 219 221 221 and 222. Motion on that. So moved. Second. Second. And roll call on that. Council member Hall. Yes. Councilman Wendell? Yes. Councilwoman Winston? Yes. Councilwoman Zimbicki? Yes. And Council President Moroy? Yes. Um, we got a resolution on 25219. Can you Can you read that? Y. Resolution authorizing a change order number one with Atlas Technical Consultant LLC from 150,000 to 250,000 to perform additional special inspections and test and services for the township of East Brunswway. Councilman Wendell. Yeah. Um this stood out to me uh in a very big way. I mean, taking a $150,000 special inspection technical consultant from what was originally deemed a $150,000 contract to now be looking for an additional $100,000 for additional work. Um, after requests to Mr. Krisculo, I received quite a bit of information from uh Mr. Kip in engineering. Subsequently, I had conversations with Mr. Kip. Um, and in my mind it comes down to this. We are using our special inspectors in a completely incorrect manner. While they're doing the special inspections that they're required to, we are keeping these inspectors on site all day long to witness the installation of materials. That is not the role of a special inspector. special inspector is to go inspect welds, bolted connections, not stand there while the

welding is being done at 18 feet in the air, which they're not seeing anyway, not to watch blocks being set. A special inspector is supposed to take mortar prisms and take them back to their lab and check them at 10 days, 28 days, and 58, 56 days to make sure that they meet the compressive strength of the design. Also with concrete, they're supposed to inspect the soil before it gets poured. They're supposed to inspect the rebar before it gets uh before the concrete gets poured. And then while the concrete is getting poured, they take cylinders and do what we call slump tests to make sure the mix is not too thin. And also take the cylinders to make sure that it meet the correct compressive strength. Now, I've reviewed um the daily reports, and I see that we've been having inspectors on site to inspect masonry, which they're not qualified to do. Most of these guys are just certificate holding persons that went through a class to understand how to take mortar cylinders or or um grout cylinders or things like that. They're not qualified to inspect the work that's being placed. It's not within their scope of work, but yet we're keeping them on the job. No fault to Mr. Kip, you know, but we're keeping them on the job. Sometimes anytime they go on site, they're there for eight hours and then if the Masons continue to work another hour and a half, we're paying them for 9 and a half hours including overtime. It's my suggestion we've overspent this account by $60,000 at least just for having this manpower on site. Now, I I equate that to two things. We are paying $170,000 or more. I don't know if there's been a

change order or not to DMR as the architect, design architect, design professional to be a construction administrator to which I've spoken to Mr. Kip. We've only received one report from them in all the time that this job's been going on. We've seen one reportly construction administration includes change orders, RFIs, changes in the work, interpretation and attendance at meetings and um monthly reports at least on the progress of the work and the the quality of the work. Instead, we've been trying to use this this Atlas technical to supplement them. And I can tell you what, they're not qualified to do that work. Now, in that regard, you know, me me and Mr. Kip spoke and I I I expressed to him and I believe Mr. Kip agreed that we should stop all of this all day inspections and only pay those special inspectors for the amount of time that's necessary for them to be on on site to take the necessarily necessary um do the necessary inspection or take the necessary concrete or mortar cylinders to test that all of this stuff meets the design compressive strength. Um, so with that, and I'm satisfied to approve a change order based upon my conversations with Minister Kip, but at this point, I would propose that we approved. Now, we are already over budget, just so you know, we are we are currently at $169,000,

which by the way, if we're at $169 thou,000 spent to the end of May, we've been using them since. So, we've got another month. But my question to you, Mr. Kusculo, is why was this not addressed two months ago when we were approaching exceeding this contract? Why are we why are we being presented a change order after we've exceeded this contract by 30 days and we're $19,000 over budget? You know, why are we being notified now? So, Not to interrupt you, have have you concluded? Yeah. My conclusion is that I would What do you want? I would do $50,000 additional rather than $100,000. I'd do $50,000 because at this point in the contract or at this point in the stage of construction, I don't think we have that much more work to do as far as special inspections go. We're going to be pouring the two ice rinks. So, we're going to have inspections for that concrete and the subbase. And then we're going to do be doing spray fire approving. Those are the last two disciplines of special inspections that are necessary. You know, Chriso, do you want to comment on the comprehensive statement made by the council? The first time that I knew we were over was when I received the email from the planning and engineering department um regarding the details for this change order today. So I was not aware that we were over um at all. So you know that that's the answer uh to one question. I would ask Mr. Mr. Kip who's here in the audience um you know to weigh in on how much work is needed to complete the project. Um and you know we lost a uh our engineer that that gentleman was not qualified to do any

work inside that building anyway. He's a civil engineer and not a structural or construction engineer. Understand? But he was helping out. So that means nothing. Don't Don't even go there, Joe. I'm irrelevant. All right. He's not qualified to be inside that building. He's qualified to do the work on the outside. Okay. So that was the first time I I knew that we're So I'll ask Mr. Kip for his professional advice u on on what has what has occurred. uh why the overage uh and uh the request for the change order and how we came up how he came up with the $150,000 he thought he needed for special inspection. He's he works in the industry and um and where he got that number from. And I'll ask him too as part of this what is exactly DMR doing? what is exactly uh the the inspector doing and what exactly is the township doing that and with the $50,000 cover right okay and throw in the inspectors according to Councilman Wendell who are not qualified which I just find that one just on that I I had a conversation with Mr. Wendell and he brought up some very good points. Um I would argue that they have much more qualifications than just taking cylinders and with the proposal we got from Atlas, we have countless expertise and certificates and licenses. And I do I understand that we're over budget. The $150,000 number was given to me by DMR as an estimate when they prepared the plans and specs. Now, this, you know, typically I deal with $4 million, $2 million paving programs. I'm really good with that. This is a $35 million building. I took their advice,

$150,000. That's what they said we needed. I put it in the budget about two months ago. I saw where we were heading and I'm like, we're going to be over this $150,000 and we still need more inspections. So, I I asked the the contractors, everyone, let's let's knock it off to whatever degree we can, which it it turns out I can't. I need their certifications. We're doing welding. We're doing steel. The masonry is structural. There's rebar that's going in that masonry. So, it's just not a matter of of throwing block up. That's structural, too. So, understood. But they they review that before the grout is poured. They can see where the where the Right. But I I don't know if you've seen the speed that we're moving. That's why we need inspectors there. The contractor is really moving fast. But I do agree that it's winding down now. The the main thing is is fire protection, which I estimate we're about 25% through. So, we're going to need them extensively, and I need that certification. It's nothing that my UCCC guys can provide. I I have to rely on this this atlas to do this. But the fire protection guy doesn't need to be there during installation. The fire protection guy when he does his inspections, he sticks the probe in to check depth and that's it. Right. And we do spot sampling, but we have extensive fire protection, but they don't need to be there during the entire installation process. Understood. And I will do everything that I can to keep it down, but I need to get the certification at the end of the day. So, we can leave Councilman Mandel, we can leave this as is, but but move forward cautiously. No. 50,000 and that can be that can be changed right now. that we can add another change order at a later date. Well, that's what Keith and I spoke about. I think I'll be back to you in two or three weeks saying, "Okay, right. We're we're over, right?" Okay. But, you know, well, we're going to I appreciate Mr. Win has expertise in this and he asked very good questions and again I'm at at the recommendations of our architect. They have done these size

projects before. I don't think they gave us a good number, but this is what I have to move forward with. And I need they're searching their responsibility off onto onto the special inspector where is in my mind we're paying construction administration. We're not getting the work that is respon they're responsible to do. I will say that and that's a good point. One of the things at the beginning of this the architect wanted not just to do the construction administration which is reviewing all the submitts for everything that we're building which there's a lot. There's a lot that goes into this. Every single piece of equipment, every pane of glass, every piece of flooring, everything has to be reviewed and confirmed by them, which was overwhelming for my staff. We couldn't have done that. But they also wanted to do more of the construction management dayto day, which based on the design history, I didn't want to go down that route. I'd rather have my staff do as much as we can. That way, we're responsible for for change orders, for whatever we go, it has to come through me. So that I can't just have whether the contractor and the architect are on the same I don't know but I want to see everything that's going in like I explained to you I'm on the roof in the hop because I want to see what the roofer did. Now we have special inspector for that too but still I feel I'm responsible this project I want to see as much of it as I can and that's why we took on a big role in doing the construction management as as opposed to the construction administration which DMR is doing. Well, they're not doing it because they should well when they attend the meetings and when they're on site, they should be doing a site review and giving you a report on a monthly basis. I I showed you the one report. I know one from December. Once I saw the report, I said, "Well, I don't need the reports anymore because I'm here every day. I know exactly what they put in the report. But what I do need them for is to review all the the complex machinery and equipment that goes into them. I I really have at the end of the day we're overpaying for them then if they're not performing the entire scope of work that is required under construction administration.

I will say it's been a challenge too pushing DMR to keep up to keep up with us. Like guys, we we're at a point where we need your approval to move forward and I appreciate your diligence on that. I really do. So, okay, at this point we're not going to we're not going to move on $50,000. We're going to just be a little more cautious when it comes to the No. Well, I I would I would propose that we change this resolution not from 150 to $200,000, not from 150 to$250. We're already over budget by $19,000 that's been built. Still, we have we have language that's written here. I want to live with the language that we have. We can change it. I don't want it changed. Okay. You want it changed. I don't want it changed. Okay. This is a document that's been put together by our professionals. You've come out with this and that and this and that. That's your opinion. And we respect your opinion. As a council president, I'm not going to change this right now. Okay. I move the table. You're you you're you're going to you're going to need a a second a second and a vote on it. Yeah. Second. Council. Go ahead. Council President and I'm going to ask there's a motion on the table already. That That's true. Go ahead. Got a motion. Motion. You have a motion in a second already. You have a second already. Who second? I second. And who who did who? Who? I made the motion. Okay. Roll call. Council member Hall? Yes. Councilman Wendell? No. Councilwoman. Oh, wait. This is on the motion table. I'm sorry. It's Yes. Motion table. Yes. Yeah. Stop. Councilwoman Winston, yes to table. Yes. Uh, Councilwoman Zimbicki, no to table. And Council President, no. I think that was a very unreasonable

request by you, Council President. I was willing to meet them halfway. Mhm. And provide money to continue move forward. Yeah. At the 11th hour. Jim, you know, when did we receive this? Oh, I don't know. You know, this is And I asked my questions today. Cuz what? Come on. What? If I would have received this two weeks ago, you you're not going to get it two weeks ago. You're going to get it on a Friday. You're going to get it on Friday. And you got it and and you and you didn't you you didn't accept it. And so I said no to your arguments and then we move on. That's it. Okay. Well, now we can't do any special inspections. Council President, may I now? Please. We're basically stopping the project, stopping construction. Stop. We're He's going to notify the contractor, right? And and Keith and Joe, help me out here that now we can't do any inspections. Period. So, he's going to notify terminal that stop basically a stop work and they're going to say, he doesn't need to notify terminal. He needs to notify AAL. They can or or Atlas Atlas and they can continue to do work until such time as they need a special inspection as required by the specifications. When do you think they're going to need another in your opinion, Keith? You're on site almost every day there. I see you there sometimes on Saturdays. Yeah, I mean as Councilman Wendell pointed out, we're already over budget. I owe I'm in a rears to Atlas currently. Um the only other options I would have to continue the project were to somehow make terminal pay out of their contract which is coming out of our pocket at any any either way you slice that we're going to be end up paying for it. That's typically a contradiction um and a conflict of interest to have

it. That's a conflict really. I I'm I'm saying it's an option, but you you you know it's I understand and that's DMR just so everyone knows they they set that in as a provision in the contract and we said guys we can't do that. We have to pull that out. But yeah, I mean I'll tell Atlas that we got to hold off. It could slow things down. Question, please. So what is the consequence of stopping work at this point? I I can I would imagine there's some Yeah. involved or Oh, yeah. It's the schedule. It's a very aggressive schedule. We're looking at just after the 4th of July, the ice ice builders, which is the actual under the slab, under the rinks portion is ready to start. So, we're hurrying to get all the work under underneath the roof over the ice rinks done so that we don't have to get in the way of the ice builder. So some of that may be pulled off because we can't do the fire inspections and that may delay that and and Atlas AEL was a relatively smaller company that was owned by people that they easy to work with. Now Atlas is a corporation. Yeah. And there's no way if I tell them that I don't have money for you, they're just going to stop. So what would you deem in your professional opinion is the a number that maybe the council can consider and the council president I don't want to put him in a predicament just to keep the project moving with the controls that councilman Wendell has asked for what in your professional opinion because I'd like to keep council president I'd like but we can't stop work going um I know we're we're over Please don't do that again. Um, please get, you know, we got to keep tabs on them. They also have a contract with

that not to exceed in it. So, they should have been warning you, waving the flag that we're going over this. So I think they need to be given a little bit of a stern talk to what in your professional opinion at least for now to keep the project going and then if we run into the predicament you could have a a conversation with Councilman Wendell of some of the situations you're running into why you need uh additional funds to go there. So what is reasonable? I think councilwoman keeping in mind our next meeting which I is July 14th, right? So we're like 3 weeks out. And and the council woman I just I think when I asked the questions or responded to the questions you had asked how much to keep does he think he needs right to have at least to keep the project going and I don't believe that question was not answered that. Well, right now I owe I owe them money. They've exceeded the $150,000. So, I would need probably $9,000 just to get current. 19. What's that? I thought you said I thought it's 19. It's 269. It could be 19. Yeah. Yeah. But moving forward, I mean, listen, my my my suggestion is that, you know, and this is why I was suggesting the 50,000 when we spoke today. It gets you, it gets you through the end of June with all your invoices and allows you to float into July and possibly early August and get you past the ice rink poor and then we will have a much better um understanding as to what the balances should be. Well, I feel at the $50,000 level I would be back to you in in a few weeks saying I need more money. So that that's

why I wasn't sure that 50 would would cut it, but can we split the difference to get a resolution for you so you can move forward at 75,000 at this point? No, not as far as I'm concerned. I offered the 50. I offered the 50 right off the bat and and council president turned it down. So Jimmy, I also agree that we should, you know, with $75,000 that we should not stop this project at all. It's not stopping the project. The $50,000 does not stop the project at all. doesn't I would be comfortable saying at 75,000 you wouldn't see me back. 50,000 you'd see me back. Mhm. But I'd rather see you back to get an update as to what's going on. Even if you came back on the 14th, you could report as to what changes were made, where we stand, and you'd have a much more accurate dollar value as to what was needed. If if we do to 75 and you still come back in July saying I need more, you know, I'd rather I'd rather give it out in pieces. So what I'm hearing is this could be very problematic for your project at this point. So I would like to make a motion to take this off the table and amend. Can we do that? It's tabled already, right? It has been tabled. What? Right. I I think you can move to amend amend. Okay. If it's been we can't amend finishing that, but you could take it off the table. Yeah. I I don't know what the Robert's rules is on this, but I don't think that the council members re realized when they made their vote that this essentially halts the project. And I think that had you known that, you might have voted differently. So, I think that there needs to be a mechanism

in place so that we don't halt the project. And whether it's $50,000 or $75,000, I don't I think we're splitting hairs on a $35 million project. It sounds petty. Uh, I understand what what you're saying, but the vast majority of the issue is the 169 that's been spent so far that didn't have or didn't need to be there for the number of hours and may have been overbuild. We can't do anything about that. We can only do what's going forward, which is a much smaller portion of that total bill. So whether you did 50 or 75 right now, personally, I don't really care. I just don't want the project to stop moving. I don't want the ICE people not who've already planned on being out here for right after July 4th to be put on hold. So whatever you need to do to get this moving along, I'm also concerned about potential penalty and fines that would now increase this way past what we're looking at right now potentially. penalties and fines for what? For stopping work. I mean, isn't there I I I don't have extensive knowledge like you do, but I have Well, they would they wouldn't stop work until there there's a need for a special inspection. But So, what I'm hearing though from you, Mr. Kip, is you're going to need special inspections very shortly. Yeah. Yeah. Tomorrow, I think they're they're going to be outside. Okay. That's what I thought. But that's why I proposed the 50,000 so that we did not have any interruption in work. Keith and I talked about this today. I was on it probably by 8:30 in the morning, you know, getting our packet on Friday, you know, so there was no delay on my part. I did my research over the weekend and I requested the data I needed to understand what's going on.

First thing Monday morning, Keith and his office uh through Mr. Crusculo were very, very diligent in trying to get me everything that they could so that I could review and we had a conversation after that and and I indicated to him that I would propose that we change it to $50,000 at this change order and Keith while maybe not ecstatic about that understood at least that's the way he represented to me and that we could continue to you know we didn't talk about stopping the will $50,000 get you to the next council meeting July 14th. Are you going to be in a predicament? No, it will get me to and I know that Mr. Wendell said that we can float that. I'm not really sure how that works. Can you do that? Is that $50,000 would get me to the next council meeting. It'll get you It'll get you paid through June. It'll get you paid through June. Whatever the June invoice is that we haven't seen yet, right? It'll get that paid, which is going to give us another month to understand potentially what it is that we need. And how about complete? So why is the 75 just just in case because he can't live with 75 at 75 he still may have to come back. Mhm. So why not why not let's just do the 50 keep the project moving. Got to keep the project moving. So I'm going to ask this again. gives us an ability to get an understanding to $50,000 be and we're not meeting till July 14th or is this conversation? No, the $50,000 will absolutely help. It'll keep things moving. But that gives you $31,000 to get you to that particular pay because you got to pay the 19th and more invoices. Keith, the councilman is right. If we're getting close to that,

this vendor needs to know that they had a not to exceed and they should have, I don't know, kept us informed earlier that they were getting close to that $150,000. So, I agree with Mr. Wendell 100%. So, they shouldn't be sending you bills after the fact when they already exceeded their their contract under public contract uh local public contract law. Well, I mean, you understand that they are they are a a firm that builds by service. Agreed. You know, so it's not a fixed rate. It never is with special inspections. You do the hourly, right? It's hourly plus it's by the test. It's hourly by trade by Do they do they send the concrete out to a firm to get in? They do their own brakes. So, do you know do they know what their brakes are? Of course, we get all what it costs. I mean, yeah. So, it's in their bid when they gave us the first proposal. The brakes are like $18 a cylinder or something. Yeah. But they need to do a better job of making sure that they don't exceed that not to exceed number and keeping you informed. I don't. So, that 19,000 as much of as a shock to Mr. Wendell, it was also a shock to me. But they need to to manage that. And when they're a month ago, they should have been saying to you, "Hey, we're dangerously close to that 150 and not give us a bill when when they've already exceeded it." So, who who I'm sorry, whose estimate was the 150? DMR or Atlas? So, it's DMR's estimate. They put together the engineering plan. So, I would imagine they would have a good idea what inspections needed to have been done. They're $100,000 off at least

on that estimate. Yeah. But they didn't expect that we were going to have inspectors watching all of the uh assembly and and daily, you know, hourly for installing concrete block and all of that. that's not in the normal scope of work for third party inspections. So, I would like to make a motion to take this from the table in the interest of not stopping work and getting this accomplished and um revising resolution 25219 to make the change order for an additional $50,000 and not $100,000. I believe we need to do that in two votes. Two steps to take it off the table and then a vote. So off the table. Motion to take it off. Okay. Second. All right. Thank you everyone. Thanks. Don't go anywhere. Now you need the second motion. Paul need a second. Yes. Councilman Wendell. Yes. Councilwoman Winston. Yes. Councilwoman Ziki. Yes. And Council President Mavoy. Yes. So now a motion to amend 25219 from 150,000 to $200,000. Motion approved on the additional special second. Second. Roll call. Councilman Bhal. Yes. Councilman Wendell? Yes. Councilwoman Winston? Yes. Councilwoman Zindiki? Yes. Council President Mavoy. Yes. Um motion for resolution 25- 221. I just have a question. Yeah, one way we so from May to September, our township ordinance only allows two firework display per month and the township celebrates 4th of July with firework

display. So we should only allow one event for the month of July. the the township one doesn't count. Yeah. Yeah. But again, you know, technically there three will be too much for the residents. 4th of July, 6th of July and 30th of July. Especially for the month of July, we should consider only one extra event beside township event. That's just my opinion or you know been it's been debated before I think. Yes. Now shut down. We have a maximum amount that occurs. There is a schedule, right? I I we've debated this so many times certain months and right what goes on in the winter not as much as what goes on in the summer September. I do think it's I do think it's much but two per month private events and these are these are geared towards the private businesses that want to shoot the fireworks whereas the the township on July 4th doesn't count in terms of this dynamic. Didn't we have Didn't we also have a a um period of time before the event that they needed to uh you know make the proposal or make the you know a minimum amount of time so that it could come before council at a you know not at a such a rapid pace of July 6th. I mean I'm not I'm just asking for it's right around the corner. Right. Yeah. But I'm just asking I thought we I thought when we did this we proposed like you have to be in a month before or something like that. Don't recall. Can we research? Can we can we look into that and find out if there was anything within that fireworks ordinance that we try? I know Baker was working on that pretty extensively. He might even recall.

Yeah. I mean, listen, I'm not I do think that that the three is going to be quite a lot. I'm I'm happy that you got the fourth and the sixth because on the 6th you're still going to be having other town shooting off their fireworks. And uh the 30th I think is a is a you know it's two weeks or two three weeks later. I don't think it's that dramatic. But I do I I do feel sensitive to the residents and and agree with Councilman Bahal that we need to I think our attorney is trying to look at the code right now. So, so if I may you may um section 104-3 of the township code uh subsection A only one firework display may be conducted within the township per month except May through September which shall be two per month. Historical uses such as the beginning and the end of the Middle Sex County Fair and the Township Fourth of July celebration or other township sponsored events shall not be counted in the above monthly totals. And then um nothing about a timeline when I'm I'm I'm still reading the code, but if I can find that. Yeah. I mean, listen, it I I you know, I think the six is rather quick, but I you know, if they missed a deadline, they missed the deadline. I'm not I'm not in, you know, so, you know, concerned about it at this point. But I think if they did miss a deadline, we need to reiterate to them that, you know, there are specific timelines that you need to Our attorney will definitely look into it. Yeah. Um, Councilman Behal, are you good on 221? I guess if everybody's okay, you know, I I I still have concern that we'll have three fireworks. Fourth July is the largest firework and then sixth and 30th in a month. We have people before in our council room requesting not having too many fireworks.

Have Have we ever asked them to consider drones? Yeah. John and I did a did a visit when they were going to test some drones to to to show us. Went nowhere with with with the with with the uh management over Oh, they didn't do uh No, because laser lasers as well as drones. Yeah. Marvelous. You go to Ruckers, you know, at some of their football games and they do unbelievable. tremendous drone, but they were not interested displays and deviating from the tradition. No, I think I think that's something that we can move forward to. Right. We'll look into that one. You know, get a motion. Try to make it less invasive on motion to approve 221. So move. Second. Second. Roll call, please. Council member Hall, yes. Councilman Wendell, yes. Councilwoman Winston, yes. Councilwoman Zimbicki, yes. and council president Mak. Yes. I have a motion for 25 hyphen 222. Is that the right one? So move and a second. Second. And Councilman Behal, this was your uh I will say yes, but can we revisit this and especially for the months when township is having an event, firework or fairground can be restricted? Oh, this is similar. It's another firework thing. No, I know. I know. I already said yes to the one, right? What I'm saying going forward when Fourth of July and another township event, can we restrict private event to one? We'll have to be discuss. I think that's I think that's close session with this addition. I will say yes. Roll call, please. Council member Hall, yes. Councilman Wendell, yes. Councilwoman Winston, yes. Councilwoman Zamiki, yes. And Council President Mander, yes. Council President, can I

just make a comment? Remember the the uh fair association does two fireworks displays the week of their fair. So in August, do you not want any more fireworks? I mean, because it's not in our code as such and I think it's dangerous when we deviate from that without going in and physically modifying the code. So, I think Joe, if you could, if this is the council's wish, could you draft a ch ordinance change to change that? Uh, or maybe, you know, discuss it. But I think uh just to be aware, there's going to be two firework shows for the fair. It's always been contractual obligation. I I think I think even before we do that, you know, if we if we understand the if there's a filing deadline to, you know, you know, if if we get that for and we find out that it's 30 days, I mean, you know, then we can, you know, we can understand and and but but the one thing we should do is like restrict it from those time periods. It's like if the fair is doing one in one, I mean it's almost impossible for Port Orchard Park to do their own anyway, but you know, we should restrict it to maybe a week away from either side of that if in some case you know so at least the 30th of July is going to be pretty close to the two that the fair is going to do it. Yeah. I mean, I think that's getting really difficult for people to arrange because you've got the fair the beginning of August. So, you're going to do one the beginning at the end and then you got July 4th, which is the beginning of July and your ordinance says that you could do two of them on top of those. So, fitting in those times, we deliberately allowed to for the summer. Kids are not in school. We didn't have to worry about waking up people and and and interfering with studying and all of

that stuff. So it it it looks like we did that with purpose and now we're ignoring it if we don't follow that policy. It is the summer. Uh and and so those are the times where we were a little bit more liberal with letting these things go versus the school year and the winter uh when it was where we restricted it to once a month. So right just want you to be conscious that fixing a schedule around that is not always so easy to do. Yeah. My biggest concern was that the one is on the 6th and I thought we had filing deadlines before the date. That's different then then they need to be told that that we have the filing deadlines for a reason. Yeah. I remember that there were times where we were getting in for a council meeting. It was the next Saturday next week. Right. I agree. Right. So I mean this isn't too far off. It's two weeks away. Yeah. Right. So we do not have any ordinances for introduction uh for the good of the cause. Happy 4th of July everybody will be advertising and happy uh graduation wishes to those graduating in the class of 2025. I believe you're twins. Yes. Yes, they are. Congratulations on Wednesday. Council, please signify with an eye for adjournment. I the eyes have a good night.