City Council - Regular Meeting

Caballero:   Good evening everyone. I'd like to call the Durham City Council meeting to order on the fourth day of May 2026 at 7:00 PM. Thank you so much for being here. Um, if I could invite everyone to please join me in a moment of silent meditation. Thank you. Um, Council Member Rist, if you'd like to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. Rist: Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. If it is your practice, I invite you to rise with me and recite the Pledge of Allegiance. All:   I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Caballero: Thank you. Madam Clerk, can you please call the roll? Clerk Schreiber: Yes, indeed. Mayor Williams has an excused absence, but I believe is delayed and will be here shortly. Mayor Pro Tem Caballero. Caballero: Here. Clerk Schreiber: Council Member Baker. Baker: Here. Clerk Schreiber: Council Member Burris. Burris: Here. Clerk Schreiber: Council Member Cook has received an excused absence for this evening.

Council Member Kopac. Kopac: Here. Clerk Schreiber: Council Member Rist. Rist: Here. Clerk Schreiber: Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. We have several ceremonial items this evening, so I'm gonna invite Council Member Kopac, uh, to kick us off with the Drinking Water Week proclamation. Can you hear me now? Audience: Better. Caballero: Thank you. Kopac: Is Wayne dropping out tonight? I don't know. Okay. Why don't you to come to my left here. All right, good e- to this evening. Oh, good evening, everyone. It's my pleasure this evening to read a proclamation on behalf of Drinking Water Week. Uh, and I'm glad to have, uh, Mr. Ralph Horne up here, uh, with me today, um, with our, uh, Williams Water Treatment, uh, one of our Williams Water Treatment Plant o- operator with the City of Durham. So thank you for your service, and thanks for being here this evening. Horne: Thank you, sir. Kopac: Yeah. So proclamation, whereas water is a fundamental and essential need of all living things, and whereas tap water consistently provides public health protection, fire protection, and economic support for the quality of life we enjoy. And whereas the city delivers a dependable supply of high quality, award-winning drinking water. And whereas as stewards, we must continue to support investment in water infrastructure to meet the needs of future generations. And whereas the city stands as a leader in source water protection and recognizes the potential impacts of climate change on this vital resource. And whereas dedicated individuals and organizations have made significant contributions to developing, operating, and maintaining our water systems and educating the public about their value. Now, therefore, I, Leonardo Williams, Mayor of the City of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim May third to the fifth twenty twenty-six as Drinking Water Week in the City of Durham and encourage all residents to recognize

and celebrate the staff who produce, manage, and maintain the city water resources and support a more sustainable community by practicing water-wise habits. Uh, signed on this day, uh, May fourth, Leonardo Williams, Mayor. That's you. Congratulations, and thank you. Give me that, and I think we may... And maybe you two can get a picture after. Horne: Good evening. My name is Ralph Horne. I am an operator at the Williams Water Treatment Facility. Uh, thank you guys for taking time tonight to recognize the vital role safe water drinking plays in all of our lives. Just like our police, fire, emergency responders, and operators, water professionals work around the clock to keep public health and the community safe. It is an honor for me to accept this proclamation on behalf of my fellow operators in the Water Management Supply and Drinking Division and all it-- all employees of the City of Durham's Department of Water Management. Our team of more than three hundred and eighty professionals works twenty-four hours a day, three hundred and sixty-five days a year to ensure that all customers have access to one of the most basic human needs, clean and safe drinking water. We've had a very dry spring. Durham's water supply has been on everyone's mind, and it will continue to be so until we have a good storm that fills reservoirs back up, and eventually the public will It'll fade from the public mind. Still, I would like to inform the mayor, the city council, and the public to know that Water Management will still be working on your water supply around the clock diligently to maintain it. As Durham continues to grow, so does the number of customers who rely on us every day for their drinking water. For this reason, it is important that we plan today to provide for Durham's future tomorrow. (laughs) I said that right, right? Our department is in the planning phase for building a water intake

at Jordan Lake and a new water treatment plant in South Durham. This is part of a multi-year project to meet Durham's needs, known as the Jordan Lake Water Supply Program, and it will be few years. In addition to ensuring an adequate water supply, we also do our best to educate the next generation about the importance of drinking water. Each year, our Water Education Team sponsors a poster contest that highlights the value of water. This year's theme was Guardians of the Drop, and we received more than 300 entries, making judging quite a challenge. We picked our nine finalists whose artwork you'll see on the screens, but only earned several top spots at the state competition, and we are very proud of them. We sincerely appreciate the support of City Council, the administration, and our fellow city employees who help make our mission to provide safe drinking water possible, and of course, the residents of Durham who make this a great place to live and work. Thank you. (applause). Kopac: There we go. Raise it high, buddy. Raise your hand. Raise your hand. A prize. Horne: Thank you. Thank you, sir. Caballero:   Good evening, everyone. Uh, it's my honor to read, um, the Taiwanese American Heritage We- Week Proclamation. Um, is Chris Daley here?

Thank you for joining me. Whereas since 1999, elected officials across the United States have observed the week following Mother's Day at... Mother's Day as Taiwanese American Heritage Week, and whereas the City of Durham values its diverse community and recognizes the important cultural, economic, and civic cont- contributions of Taiwanese Americans. And whereas in the face of ongoing challenges, it is important to recognize and celebrate the heritage and contributions of the Taiwanese American community. And whereas the United States and Taiwan share a strong partnership rooted in democracy, freedom, and human rights, supported by the Taiwan Relations Act of 1979 and the Six Assurances of 1982. And whereas Taiwanese American Heritage Week provides an opportunity to celebrate these contributions and the diversity that strengthens our community. Now, therefore, I, Leonardo Williams, Mayor of the City of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim May 10th through 17th, 2026 as Taiwanese American Heritage Week in the City of Durham, and encourage all residents to recognize and celebrate the contributions and heritage of Taiwanese Americans. Witness my hand and the corporate seal of the City of Durham, North Carolina, this fourth day of May, 2026. Daley: Thank you. Caballero: Absolutely. Daley: Mayor Williams and members of the City Council, thank you for taking the time and effort to approve and sign this proclamation celebrating Taiwanese American Heritage Week. Durham has a rich history of welcoming people from all over the world, and this proclamation beautifully demonstrates that spirit of acceptance. While I am not myself a Taiwanese American, my wife, who's with us tonight, is a first-generation Taiwanese American. Just last month, she celebrated three years as a US citizen and nearly six years as a proud Durham resident. I am also the father of two young boys, Taiwanese Americans, who were both born right here at Duke Regional Hospital. The proclamation referenced Taiwan's resilience and perseverance in the face of ever-growing geopolitical challenges, and I just wanna say

for my family, those challenges are deeply personal, and now more than ever, I worry about my sons' future. Taiwan faces constant unprovoked posturing from its much larger neighbor to the west. On a recent family trip to visit my wife's family, we stopped at Hualien on Taiwan's east coast. The peaceful serenity was interrupted every few hours by F-16 fighter jets roaring into the skies. We learned that these jets are constantly scrambling to intercept military aircraft from the People's Liberation Army entering Taiwan's air defense identification zone without permission. This hits close to home for me because if my sons choose to maintain their dual citizenship into adulthood, they will be required to serve in this Taiwanese military and possibly defend Taiwan from an invading force. Because of this reality, this proclamation is not mere platitudes. It is a declaration of solidarity Tonight, you have told my wife, my children, and all Taiwanese Americans living in Durham, across North Carolina, and even the United States, we see you, we value your heritage, and we stand with you in your quest for freedom and democracy. Durham has a rich history of supporting the oppressed, whether supporting refugees fleeing the threat of war or standing up against system- systemic racial injustices that were taking place here at home. Durham is a city for good, and tonight, once again, you have chosen to stand up for the marginalized in our community. Thank you. (applause) Caballero: Thank you so much. Thank you. Burris: Good evening. I will be presenting the Firefighters Day proclamation.

So if Chief Zoldos could please come up, and Durham Fire and Rescue. All right. Whereas firefighters serve the City of Durham with courage, dedication, professionalism, responding to emergencies at all hours to protect lives, property, and the safety of our community. And whereas firefighters place themselves in harm's way to safeguard residents and visitors, demonstrating extraordinary commitment to public service and the wellbeing of others. And whereas International Firefighters Day is observed annually on May 4th to recognize and honor firefighters around the world for their bravery, sacrifice, and unwavering service to their communities. And whereas this day also provides an opportunity to remember and honor firefighters who have been injured or who have made the ultimate sacrifice in the line of duty. And whereas the Durham Fire Department proudly serves the Bull City through emergency response, fire prevention efforts, public safety education, and community outreach initiatives that help keep residents safe. And whereas recognizing International Firefighters Day highlights the central role of firefighters play in protecting our community and provides an opportunity for residents to express their appreciation for their service and sacrifice. Now, therefore, I, Leonardo Williams, Mayor of the City of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim May 4th 2026 as International Firefighters Day in the City of Durham, and encourage all residents to recognize the dedication, bravery, and service our firefighters, and to aim to express their gratitude for the work they do to protect our community. Witness my hand the corporate seal of the City of Durham, North Carolina, this fourth day of May 2026, so May the Fourth be with you all. Thank you very much. You want the program, Chief? Zoldos: Madam Mayor Pro Tem, members of the city council, good evening. My name is Bob Zoldos. I have the pleasure of serving as the fire chief of this great city.

With me tonight are two members, uh, they, they did s- come up. I was afraid they'd, they'd hide in the back of, of the Durham Fire Department who have great significance. I have one of our most senior and one of our most junior members with me tonight. Our department senior member is Captain Travis Melvin, who graduated in August of nineteen ninety-four from Academy eight. Travis is our longest serving member in operations, saving and-- saving lives and property in the Bull City for over thirty-two years. Captain Melvin's other duties include serving as the DFD's liaison to nine one one and as a response plan specialist, where he designs and implements response strategies for the city. Travis also serves as the president of Bull City Firefighters, one of our three employee groups. Captain Melvin is assigned to Engine Company one, quartered right across the street at one thirty-nine East Morgan Street, and he's a native Durhamite. Our department's junior member is firefighter, uh, uh, Devon Blackwell, who graduated on April seventeen, twenty twenty-six on-- from Academy forty. Firefighter Blackwell graduated with twenty-six other new firefighters just seventeen days ago. And while they're all equally junior, if you will, I asked Devon specifically to represent our newest members tonight because he was picked by his peers to represent them at their academy gr- class graduation. Firefighter Blackwell is also assigned to Engine Company one. He's originally from San Bernardino, California, and while I'd love to say our recruitment is just that good that we grabbed him in California, (laughter) he came to the area to finish college, and then later he took his son to visit a firehouse, and well, the rest is history. Council, thank you so much for recognizing the great work of your firefighters tonight. The officers and members of the Durham Fire Department protect the lives, property, and environment of the city twenty-four seven, three sixty-five. Your fire department does that by responding to fires, medical emergencies, auto accidents, hazardous materials incidents, technical rescue entrapments, and all manner of other events that require life-saving and caring skill. We were called to help three-- I'm sorry, thirty-five thousand eight hundred and five times in twenty twenty-five, and we always answered that call.

So that you know, to answer that many nine one one calls for service, the DFD had to respond fifty-two thousand times. And to provide our high level of service to the community, we trained over a hundred and eight thousand hours during the year. Your fire department also works very hard to prevent the nine one one call from happening in the first place through fire code enforcement and strong public safety education efforts, including three summer youth camps. Today is International Firefighters Day, a day set aside to recognize firefighters from all across our world who put their lives on the line to save others. In the United States, there are over a million firefighters. Here in Durham, there's four hundred and forty-nine men and women keeping our community safe. On behalf of all of them, thank you very much for the kind and thoughtful recognition of their strong work Thank you. (applause) Rist:   All right. Good evening, everyone. I'd like to call forward, uh, Gregory Williams and David Bradway from Bike Durham. It is Bike Month. I'm gonna don my bike helmet (laughter) since I biked in for Bike Month as did Council Member Kopac, who's also gonna join me here. Um, so whereas May is National Bike Month, a celebration of biking as transportation, recreation, and community connection that benefits public health, environmental sustainability, and quality of life. And whereas the City of Durham continues to invest in its bicycle and pedestrian network, including seventy-five million dollars for new and repaired sidewalks via the successful 2024 Connect Durham bond issue.

And whereas the city of, city and county of Durham continue to plan for strategic expansion of biking and walking networks via the Durham Bike and Walk Plan, charting a course toward a safer, more connected, and more equitable transportation system. And whereas May sixth is Bike, Walk, and Roll to School Day, when students, parents, and educators across Durham are encouraged to travel to school by foot, bicycle, or other active means throughout the month of May. And whereas May ninth is the Bull City Bike Stampede, a ride organized by Bike Durham, thank you all, when cyclists of all ages take to Durham streets together to celebrate and advocate for safer infrastructure for all. And whereas May eleventh through seventeenth is Bike To Work Week, when commuters across Durham are encouraged to swap car trips for bike trips, reducing emissions and promoting health and economic benefits of cycling as transportation. And Bike Durham will host the annual Ride of Silence on May twentieth, a memorial ride through downtown Durham to honor those killed or injured while biking, affirming that every traffic death is preventable. Now, therefore, I, Leonardo Williams, Mayor of the City of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim May 2026 as National Bike Month in the City of Durham and encourage all residents to ride, walk, and roll this month in the Bull City. Witness my hand and the corporate seal of the City of Durham, North Carolina, this fourth day of May twenty twenty-six, Leonardo Williams, Mayor. (applause). Bradway: Thank you. Thank you, Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Tem, and members of City Council for

this proclamation recognizing May as National Bike Month in Durham. My name is David Bradway. I volunteer with Bike Durham as the advocacy co-chair. I, uh, for the past five years, have been biking my kid to EK Powe Elementary in Old West Durham, and I've been biking to work for much longer. On behalf of Bike Durham, I'm grateful for the city's partnership and its commitment to making Durham streets safer and more welcoming for everyone who walks, bikes, and rolls. This proclamation reflects not just a celebration, but a shared commitment to the work ahead. This month, we invite all Durham residents to join us for the Bike Month events announced in the proclamation and found at bikedurham.org. Next, I'd like to hand, hand it off to Gregory Williams, advocacy campaign organizer at Bike Durham. G Williams: Good evening. Mayor Williams, council members, we invite you to attend our atten- our events this month to send a powerful message to our community that Durham's leaders are committed to safe streets for everyone. Bike Month is a celebration, but it's also a time to reflect and honor those who've we have lost on our streets, most recently Jack O'Shea, who was killed by a driver on Cole Mill Road. With tragedies like this underscoring the importance, we recognize the work the City of Durham staff has done on the recent Bike Walk Plan update. We call on council to identify the resources necessary to fully implement its recommendations. Durham is making progress on biking and transportation in general with new sidewalks and bike lanes, improved crosswalks and bus service, and a community that shows up to ride, to remember, to advocate, and to imagine a bold city where everyone can get around safely. We have more work to do, but we're glad to do it alongside this city.

Thank you. (applause). Thank you. Caballero:   Thank you, colleagues. Um, at now I have, um, announcements by council. Does anyone have any announcements? And then, um, Madam Clerk, we're keeping our announcements to two minutes each. Colleagues, anyone? Go ahead, Council Member Baker. Baker: Uh, good evening, everyone. Thank you all for being, uh, in the building. I'll be quick. Um, I do just wanna say thank you for your patience, um, in, in signing up. It is not, uh, every meeting that we have such a large number of people attending, but it also doesn't never happen. And so, um, I do, I do think that we need to develop, um, some, some protocols for larger groups so that people don't, uh, have to wait, uh, for extended periods of time, uh, to, to sign up to speak. Um, so I, I hope that we can do that. Um, just wanna say, uh, thank you to all of our city workers, uh, every day for all that you do, and thanks to IT, communications, all the city staff who help keep our, uh, meetings running smoothly. That's it. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Any other council members? Go ahead, Council Member Kopac. Kopac: Thank you, Madam Mayor Pro Tem. Uh, so a few announcements. First of all, I just want to, uh, give appreciation to Urban Ministries of Durham and Durham Center for Senior Life for their recent, uh, annual galas and celebrations. Uh, Council Member Burroughs and I got to see the Durham Center for

Senior Life house band perform, uh, and see the, uh, the, the residents take over the dance floor, so that was a really joyous celebration. Uh, appreciate, uh, and thank Hayti Reborn for their recent forum I was invited to. Uh, congratulations to Cornwallis Youth and their NCCU mentors with Graced Inc. for completion of a podcast series everyone should check out, and the courage and leadership they showed in the face of recent violence, which they should not have to, uh, show as people so young. The second annual Solar Festival was a big hit at Lyons Farm Elementary, with student solar builds and a puppet show, uh, in partnership with the NC Climate Justice, uh, Collective and Paper Hand Puppets, showing us the possibility of a future with clean, abundant energy built with collective power. Um, on our agenda tonight, you won't hear about Keep Durham Beautiful and their annual report, but I want to acknowledge and commend their ongoing work to expand our tree canopy and clear invasive plants. Um, happy Jewish American Heritage Month. Uh, and finally, as a reminder, the city manager will be releasing, uh, his budget on May 18th. The best times to give input at this stage are our work sessions on May 18th and May 21st, uh, and at the June 1st budget hearing. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Council Member Burris, do you have any- Comments? Rist: Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. Uh, again, happy May, everyone. Um, in addition to Bike Month, it is also, uh, was also May Day on Friday, and I wanna thank all the Durham residents that went over to Raleigh to celebrate or to join in the, in the thousands of people, literally tens of thousands of people, at the May Day protest in Raleigh last Friday, part of the May Day strong campaign nationwide. I wanna thank NCAE for helping to organize that rally, and I wanna thank everyone that came out to express their deep concern with the, the, with the direction our state's going in, and how we need to fund our schools and our people in much more substantial ways and avoid tax cuts. So, thanks for all that came out. Um, also last Saturday, May 2nd, was the Garmin Marathon. I wanna thank the Durham Sports Commission for sponsoring that,

helping to organize that in Durham. As you all know, the Garmin Marathon is only in a couple cities a year. It's a great honor for that to have been in Durham. Again, literally thousands of runners who participated in that marathon. I'm a big runner myself, as you know, yeah, but I wasn't able to get out, but it's great to wake up Saturday morning and see literally a wall of runners coming down my street participating in that. It's great for the runners there, also great for Durham to attract so many folks to our city to participate in the Garmin Marathon. Finally, I wanna say, going back to the month of A- last of April, um, I wanna thank the Hayti Heritage Center for s- hosting a screening of the new documentary by Durham documentarian Kenny Dalsheimer called Moonchild. Moonchild. Um, it screened on April 30th, which I think is also International Jazz Day, if I'm not mistaken. Um, if you, if you've not seen it, don't miss a chance to see Moonchild, Moonchild. Um, it's the untold story of a Durham, uh, legend who's a jazz pianist but also an amazing connector. Um, his name is Brother Yusuf Salim. Yusuf Salim. Um, it's 100% Durham ja- Durham story about the power of music, the power of jazz, connections to the NCCU jazz program, which is one of the strongest in the country, and also connections to the Muslim community in Durham that's centered around West Chapel Hill Street, where the mosque still is. So, if you have a chance, look out for Moonchild, an amazing story of Durham. Again, thanks to Kenny Dalsheimer, the filmmaker, for bringing that story to all of us. It's a fascinating story. You gotta see it. So, thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. Caballero: Thank you. Uh, I have just a, a few announcements. I wanna first acknowledge a scout troop that is here, Scout Troop 400. I think they are towards the back of, um, the chamber. So, thank you so much for being here and participating. If y'all wanna stand up. It's always a pleasure to have, uh, scouts, uh, here with us. Uh, secondly, and I will leave it with the clerk, somebody left their phone. It's just, like, a black... So, I'll leave it with the, with the clerk. Um, so if you're missing your phone, look through your belongings.

Um, and finally, I will be reordering the agenda quite a lot tonight. Uh, there are certain things that are gonna have to get switched around, so please bear with me. Um, when the mayor is here, he has a second. I don't have a second. So, uh, I ask for patience this evening. Hopefully, he will get here around 8:00, between 8:00 and 8:30. So, those are all... Oh, and then finally, I do wanna extend a huge shout-out to everyone who did, was able to go out to Raleigh. It was an incredible- Afternoon. I was very happy to be able to participate, and just delighted that that many folks showed up. I will say it was also distressing and disappointing because the last time I marched and rallied for a large, uh, Red for Ed event, my kids were in elementary school, and my third kid's about to r- graduate from Riverside in June, and we still don't have adequate funding for our public schools. So we have a lot of work to do in the state of North Carolina, and I encourage every single one of you who's here tonight to keep doing your civic duty and showing up for our public schools. Thank you. Madam Manager, priority items? Manager Ferguson: I'll go with- Caballero: Madam, sorry. Manager Ferguson: I'll go with manager, but- Caballero: I was looking up, Madam Attorney. Manager Ferguson: That's quite all right. Caballero: Yeah. Manager Ferguson: Thank you, Madam Mayor Pro Tem, members of council. The city manager's office has one priority item this evening. That is agenda item number 27 that's been added to your agenda. It's a revision to the 2026 city council meeting schedule. This has been added to move the work session that was originally scheduled for May 7th to now take place on May 18th. That item is on your agenda, and those are all our priority items from the manager's office. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Madam Attorney. Attorney Rehberg: Thank you, Madam Mayor Pro Tem. The city attorney's office has no priority items. Although, I think I will speak on behalf of Council Member Baker perhaps to point out th- there's another supplemental item that's been added to the agenda, item number 28. Thank you, Madam Attorney. Madam Clerk. Clerk Schreiber: Thank you, Madam Mayor Pro Tem. The city clerk's office has no priority items tonight. Caballero: Thank you.

So, uh, the next order of business for us is to, uh, read out the agenda. We will be taking up our consent agenda. Consent agenda is everything that we discussed at our work session, and it's all together. That's why it's on consent. Uh, item number one, developmental review, performance audit March 2026. Item number five, opioid settlement update and spending authorization. Item number eight, Durham Arm- Armory HVAC upgrades design build contract with Brady Trane Service, Inc. Item number nine, Keep Durham Beautiful 2025 annual report. Item number 10, second amendment to contract with International Business Machines Corporation for next generation ERP implementation. Item number 11, supplemental agreement number two to governing agreement number 21551 with WSP USA, Inc. for cultural... for central Durham R- bus rapid transit to design 30% and National Environmental Policy Act, NEPA study. Item number 12, extension of street impact fee credits to Creekwood Highway 70 Alexander, LLC. Item number 13, construction contract for signalized pedestrian upgrades at 13 locations with Traffic Control Devices, LLC. Item number 14, Go Durham FY25 annual report. Item number 15, FY26 water and sewer funds budget ordinance amendment. Item number 16, amendment number five to professional engineering services contract number 14605 with Hazen & Sawyer, P.C. For the Lake Michie and Little River Raw Water Pump Station improvements. Item number 17, professional services contract with the Wooten Company for the Duke Golf Course aerial rehabin- rehabilitation and lick basin sewer assessments project. Item number 18, professional services contract award to McKim & Creed, Inc. For the southeast pressure zone pump station upgrade. Item number 26, approval of the draft FY 26-27 actual action plan, AAP, and recommended funding plan. That is everything that I have under consent, and I have no pulled, um, agenda items. So if I could go ahead and get a motion for- Baker: So moved. Kopac: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second.

Uh, all in favor. Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote, uh, poll? Clerk Schreiber: Madam Mayor Pro Tem, you need to vote. Caballero: Yeah. Could you please open it? Clerk Schreiber: It is. It's open. Caballero: Oh, mine is not. Oh, there it is. Sorry. Sorry y'all. Okay. Um, could you please close it? Clerk Schreiber: The motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you, Madam Clerk. Uh, under general business agenda, I have items number two, Children's Wealth Building resolution, and number three, Endangered Species Day resolution. We have a few speakers on that, and then we have several under items under general business agenda. Madam Attorney, uh, I know that we have to take up item number 28 before item number four, um, but those are all under general business public hearings and... Or sorry. Attorney Rehberg: I'm sorry, Madam Mayor Pro Tem. Number 28 is not a public hearing item. It's a resolution that's required in order to hold the public hearing- Public hearing ... item number four. So what I would suggest is maybe you work through the agenda, go ahead and tackle the supplemental items, and leave all- And then go back up? ... of the public hearings for the end. Caballero: Okay. So we're gonna do item number 28, uh, which is a supplemental item resolution to set a public hearing to impose a temporary moratorium on developmental approvals for data centers, cryptocurrency mining operations, and any use associated with data center processing facilities within the City of Durham pursuant to NC... oh, I don't have the statute, but that's what we have to do first. And Council Member Baker, this is your item, so I'm going to, uh, pass it to you if you have any comments. Baker: Since this is just the resolution, I'll go ahead and save my comments for, uh, the actual ordinance. Caballero: Perfect. Thank you. Uh, could I please get a motion to adopt a resolution to set a public hearing

to impose a temporary moratorium on developmental approvals for data centers, cryptocurrency mining operations, and any use associated with data center processing facilities within the City of Durham pursuant to NC General Statute 160D-107 and UDO Section 3.9, 19.6? Baker: So moved. Kopac: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second. Clerk Schreiber: Madam Mayor Pro Tem. Caballero: Madam Clerk- Clerk Schreiber: I'm, I'm sorry to interrupt. Audience: We signed a- To speak on it Caballero: I will not be allowing folks to shout f- at us from to the dais. That is okay. It's going to get handled. This is just the resolution. Your opportunity to speak is coming. We can't let you speak until we accept the resolution to hold a public hearing. If we do not pass item number four, there is no item number 28. Okay. That is the order that we have to follow, or we can't do the thing that folks have signed up to do. So we're going to accept the resolution. There is a motion and a second, and we are going to hold the vote, and that will allow item number four to pursue. Otherwise, item number four cannot pursue. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Is, uh, is, uh... Could you please open the vote? Thank you. Could you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you, Madam Clerk. Now we'll be going back up under our general business items. We have, um... Under our general business agenda, we have item number two, Children's Wealth Building Resolution, and item number three, Endangered Species Day Resolution. For both items, folks who signed up, I would like you to keep your minutes to two minutes... Excuse me, your comments to two minutes each, because we have a lot of public hearings this evening. I'm gonna start with our, um, registrants online first, Madam Clerk. Manager Ferguson: I think Amelia's online. Caballero: Yeah. So I have, uh... She, she Okay.

So I have Ms. Amelia O'Rourk-Owen, but I think she is here in person. Is that correct? Is she here in person? She's here, yeah. Okay. Thank you for standing up. Um, so we're gonna come to you in just a second. I also have, uh, Kate Irish online. Is Kate- No, she's here. She's also here Okay. Kate Irish, you are also here in person. Okay. So those are the two online speakers I have for item number two. She's down there or two. Um, Madam Clerk, I don't... Unless you sent it via email, I don't have in-person registrants yet. She's- It's not here yet. It's in process. Okay. Because I know that Ms. O'Rourk-Owen is here in person and Ms. Irish is here in person, I'm gonna go ahead and let y'all come on up and line up to speak. Um, as soon as I have my in-person registrants, I'll keep inviting you. I just don't have the names yet. So please bear with us. So folks can go ahead and line up here. Yes. And remember, you have two minutes. And as soon as I have the rest of the speakers, I will call you up. Thank you. She just said Public Speaker 1: I'm Kate Irish, executive director with Durham's Partnership for Children. At the partnership, we're focused on ensuring every child in Durham enters school healthy and ready to succeed. We lead strategies for all 23,000 children age birth to five and their families to promote healthy development, learning, and enhance high-quality childcare. Investing in the early years means lifelong outcomes for that child and family in education, health, and economic security. Early childhood investments are also critical to our community's wellbeing, as childcare and early education are work supports and critical

infrastructure for our economy. We know the power of a strong foundation for young children, and that includes a financially stable one. This resolution on children's savings accounts recognizes the importance of launching children and families into a brighter futures by planting the seeds of economic security. Many families, uh, with young children in Durham are struggling right now to make ends meet. With the cost of living rising and the trouble of being able to afford the cost of housing, food, childcare, this means that families are stretched too thin to be able to start saving and planning for their children's future. A savings account for a child unlocks something beyond economic security. It unlocks hope and trust in the future. It highlights for families the possibilities of what can be and what may be on the horizon for their child as they grow up, college or starting a business, a path to buying a home. The possibilities will be endless. We want young children and families, of course, to have fi- financial security, but also to feel empowered to dream about their future. These children's savings accounts with federal contributions will help put young children on a path to a stronger and more supported future. Durham's Partnership for Children is excited to partner with the city on outreach efforts for this campaign. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Um, Ms. O'Rourke Owen. Public Speaker 2: Good evening. Uh, my name is Amelia O'Rourke Owens. I'm a lawyer who focuses on consumer protection and community economic development. Before I was DOGE-ed twice in 2025, I worked for the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, where I focused on public benefits payments, fair lending technologies, and abusive private student loans. Since Elon Musk raised a chainsaw above his head and federal consumer protections were on the chopping block, I've been advising nonprofits and academic

institutions on various policy matters. One of those roles has been as a research fellow for the Center for Taxpayer Rights, where we've read every statute, notice, and implementing regulation for these new Trump accounts, also referred to as Section 530A accounts. This is a long way to say that I am a nerd and also very in the weeds. I'm thankful for Council Member Rist's resolution, and I hope that y'all will support it today. To this end, I want to highlight the robust scholarship on children's savings accounts and the reality of Trump accounts as they're already being deployed. First, since Michael Sheridan started researching child assets as poverty alleviation strategies in 1991, there's incredible research on the positive impacts of children's savings accounts, even in small amounts. Dr. Willie Elliott from the University of Michigan articulates so beautifully that one of the most impactful pieces of children's savings accounts is one of the hardest to quantify, which is the hope that it gives to the young children who are beneficiaries. Now, turning to Durham's role in Trump accounts, these accounts are here. They were already deployed on Form 4547, uh, on our tax filing, and the only way that children born since January 1st, 2025 can receive their $1,000 pilot contributions is by opening these accounts. So they also... These accounts implement almost none of the best practices for children's savings accounts, such as automatic enrollment or a public trustee. Given this, without the thoughtful outreach and the city's efforts to those who would benefit most from these accounts, we risk entrenching wealth inequality further. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Uh, next up, I think I have Ryan Hurley and Tabitha, hold on.

Blackwell. Good evening. Public Speaker 3: Good evening, city council members, city manager, and city staff. My name's Ryan Hurley. I'm a Durham resident, parent, and a local business owner here since 2008. Uh, I am so supportive of the Children's Wealth Building resolution because it advances a simple but transformative idea. Every child, every child should have a chance to build assets, understand ownership, and see a financial future for themselves. Many of us in this room benefited because our parents or grandparents owned assets through a home, a retirement account, or investments in the stock market. They also passed down to us a habit of saving, investing, and owning something whose value compounds over time. Far too many children in the US have not had these advantages at the start of their lives. Roughly half of American families don't own equities in the stock market. That means millions of children grow up outside one of the core systems that helps build long-term- Financial security. The new Invest America federal program gives us a chance to help close that gap by allowing eligible children to have a long-term investment account in their own name, beginning with the initial $1,000 federal contribution. Imagine a child in Durham not just hearing about saving and investing, but seeing it in their own name, watching it grow over time, learning how it works, and beginning to believe this is something I can do, too. Imagine that same child reaching adulthood with something of their

own, money they've seen grow and compound, and the confidence to use it toward education, a trade, starting a business, or even buying a first home. That's my time, but we've got an incredible opportunity in Durham, and I hope everybody supports it. Caballero: Thank you. Public Speaker 3: Thank you. Caballero:   Good evening. Public Speaker 4: Good evening. Good evening, Mayor Tim- Pro Tem, and members of City Council. My name is Tabitha Blackwell, and I serve as executive director of Book Harvest Durham. Our mission is simple: every child deserves to grow up surrounded by books, by stories, and by a- adults who believe in their potential. Through programs like Book Babies, we work with families from the very beginning. Putting books in their hands and planting the seeds of their child's future is full of possibility. That belief is exactly why we launched Bright Futures. In partnerships with Latino Community Credit Union, we currently manage and support child savings accounts for 248 babies right here in Durham. May... You know, because we know that raising a reader and building a future go hand-in-hand. When a family opens a, a child savings account, when they see their baby's name attached to something that's growing, as mentioned, it changes how they think about their child's future. Just like handing a parent a bag of books, we know that this does the same thing. It says, "Someone believes in your child's future." Right now, there's real federal money on the table for Durham families, thousands of dollars available to eligible children that too many families don't know exist.

This resolution asks the city to be a trusted messenger and make sure no family misses out. That costs nothing but outreach and will. Book Harvest is ready to carry the message that we believe in our children's future. I urge you to vote yes to the resolution tonight. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Those are all the speakers I have this evening. I don't know if council has, uh, any comments that they'd like to provide. Council Member Rist, this is your item. I'm not sure if you wanted to say anything. Rist: Yeah, I'll just say briefly, yeah, this is... So this is... As you heard the speaker say, this is all about addressing wealth inequality in this country. We know from the Federal Reserve that 37% of families lack $400 if they were to have a emergency with a car or a boiler. So, so many families lack any tangible wealth. No one here expect... Um, certainly I, I don't think anyone in this room expected this would come from the Trump administration. But the reality is there's $1,000 on the table for every child born after January 1, 2025, for four years. Um, and, uh, and s- so, so we could either say, "Oh, we don't want this. We don't like the name," or we can say, "This is a, this is an amazing wealth infusion to every kid in our community." It's between 2,500 and 3,000 kids per year that would qualify if we get these accounts. Um, it's also for kids born before January 1, 2025. There's also a $250 deposit made, made possible, as you may have read in the papers, by Michael and Susan Dell. So anywhere from 35,000, 36,000 kids in Durham would qualify for a $250 deposit in a 530A account, and twen- 200- 2,500 to 3,000 kids per year would qualify for the $1,000 deposit in a 530A account. All they have to do is claim the account and sign up. So what we're- what this resolution commits the city to doing is making sure everyone in Durham knows about this opportunity. As Ms. Irish said from the Partnership for Children, we want all kids in Durham, as they grow up, with healthy childhood education and parks to walk in and places to play, that they also are building their financial, uh, futures. So the resolution is before the council.

I will say there was one request from Council Member Cook to change the title in here from Trump accounts, which is the statutory name for these accounts, to 530A accounts, which is the name the Treasury calls the accounts, and that's fine. As Shakespeare said, "A rose by any other name smells just as sweet," so I don't really care what the name is. I wanna make sure every child in Durham has access, claims these accounts to build wealth for the future, so. Caballero: Thank you. Uh, other than that change, colleagues? Go ahead, Council Member Burris, and then Council Member Baker. Burris: Just to clarify, can we, um, for the end of the resolution, can you provide a little bit more, um, Council Member Rist, a little bit more insight in terms of, like, what exactly the role of the city staff is in this resolution? I think particularly the line is, "The city manager direct city staff to support efforts on the part of community partners, ensure messages are clear, frequent, and that all families are able to open an account." So I want to know if you could unpack that a little more for me, or whomever. Rist: I'm sorry, the question... So the impact on staff, is that the question? Burris: Yes Yeah But like the role, like what does that look like in practice? Rist: Right. So, so, um, primarily what this does is th- with the approval of the council, allows staff, whether there's a press conference or some other event that's happening, allows staff to participate in that and share information about that. This is not committing staff to any particular sort of activities. Um, the Office of Economic and Workforce Development is, is 100% behind this resolution, wants to be able to support families not only with workforce training and jobs, but also wealth building. And so this allows them to continue working on this, spreading the word about this to our community, uh, through the work they do. Burris: And then for the record, 'cause I am one of those, and I do appreciate your beautiful poet- poet- poetry, whatever you had going on down there. Um, if we can like remove the reference to Trump and do sim- as, um, Council Member suggested, I would be comfortable moving forward under those circumstances with a commitment for that. Rist: Yeah. It's quite all right. Thank you. Caballero: Go ahead, Council Member Baker. Baker: Uh, I had the exact same question about what exactly we were directing staff to, to do. I had asked, uh, Council Member Rist a little bit about it before, and, uh, was

comforted that, uh, it's more passive. W- if the opportunity arises, staff can, uh, make it known. So yeah, folks, uh, sign up for your $1,000. Don't lose your password. Thanks. Rist: I, I also will say, you know, I, I actually talked to the state treasurer at an event over the weekend. This is brand new. Not many communities, in fact, nobody else in North Carolina is even thinking about this. So we are way ahead on this, making sure that our kids are accessing these federal dollars, significant federal dollars. So this is one more way, not only for our individual kids who can benefit from this wealth infusion, but also we are a leader in the state and sp- folks will look to us, and I think there's gonna be a lot of cities that will follow us because the dollars are there. And any fin- financial advisor would tell you if there's free money on the table, you should take the free money. Caballero: Thank you. So, um, what I have heard on the language, was there anything that was referenced around a Trump account, it would be changed to children's savings account? Is that correct? Rist: Uh, changed to 530A. Caballero: 530A- Yeah. Rist: Yeah ... Caballero: in the resolution. Rist: That's the next one. Caballero: Yeah. And colleagues, we're good? Okay. So other than that change, um, I think our m- motion be- before us this evening is to adopt the Children's Wealth Building Resolution. Could I please get a motion? Burris: So moved. Caballero: Can I get a second? Rist: Second. Caballero: Thank you. Uh, I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you so much. Rist: Thank you, colleagues. Caballero: The next item I have before us is the Endangered Species Day Resolution. I have a few speakers, uh, signed up for that. Again, you will be given two minutes. Uh, I will start with our online speakers first. Um, I have Ms. Pamela Andrews signed up for item number three online. Madam Clerk, I don't know if she's hearable yet. Public Speaker 5: Good evening. Can you hear me? Caballero: Yes, Ms. Andrews. Good evening. You have two minutes. Public Speaker 5: Thank you.

Um, thank you to the Environmental Affairs Board and me- uh, Member Astrid Cook for this resolution submitted by Council Member Nate Baker for helping coordinate this important resolution adoption. Recognizing the endangered salamander of the Neuse River is important as it is one of the rare salamanders in the southeastern United States, which is why it is federally protected. The Neuse River water dog needs protection, yet this is the, uh, this is the area polluted with sediment pollution week after week. Establishing a day dedicated to endangered species is important, however, there needs to be a clear protection for all inventoried endangered species. Durham should require that the natural heritage lands be protected as open space, and should follow the Natural Heritage Registry guidelines when it comes to the 300-foot riparian buffer for aquatic species, like the Carolina darter fish. No practical alternative applications should not be allowed in these aquatic buffers. There must be even more efforts to protect endangered plants and animals in Durham. The natural heritage land and the TCC, the Triangle Connectivity Collaborative, should both be recognized in the new UDO to guarantee their protection. On Howard's Place parcel had two endangered species of concern. The Carolina darter fish is a fish species of special concern, as well as the dissected toothwort, which is a protected species of special concern, uh, a vulnerable plant. Both are within the natural heritage land, yet it was not recognized. More time and commitment needs to be spent studying these potentially endangered species before development is allowed to clear cut the land. The natural heritage land is important as well as the TCC, which helps identify the wildlife corridors. It is imperative that an environmental sta- stand needs to be taken in this new UDO. Thank you so much for your time. And again, thank you, Commissioner, I mean, Councilman Baker and, uh, the E- Environmental Affair Board. Thank you so much for this. Caballero: Thank you. I have one in-per- in-person speaker, Samantha Kropp, for item number three.

Oh, there she is. Good evening. Public Speaker 6: Hi, Council members. Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Samantha Kropp. I work as the Neuse River Keeper with a nonprofit named Sound Rivers, and I just wanted to say, um, echoing some of the comments in the speaker before me, that I do appreciate this resolution, um, for the Endangered Species Act. It's one of the most important environmental laws in our nation's history. As a river keeper, my work to protect waterways depends on strong enforceable protections for the species and habitats that sustain them. And here in the Neuse River Basin, we are home to at least 10 rare and endangered species, and that includes, of course, the Neuse River water dog, as well as federally listed species like the Carolina madtom, the dwarf wedge mussel, the Tar River spinymussel, and the yellow lance. Some of these species are found nowhere else in the world, so if we lose them here, we lose them forever. These species aren't just rare, but they are essential. They help maintain water quality, support habitat, and sustain the ecosystems our communities rely on. But today, these species face growing threats from drought, rapid development, and polluted stormwater runoff. Uh, this resolution is a meaningful step, but Durham's current development code still fails to require protections for endangered species habitat. In practice, that gap has allowed the city to continue approving projects that directly impact sensitive areas despite clear evidence of ecological risk. In places like the Lick Creek Bottomlands, a designated natural heritage area, the city has permitted extensive development. Projects such as the eighty-six acre Howard's Place development have a- been approved in known endangered species habitat, and even now proposals are under review that would impact over a hundred thousand square feet of stream habitat in that development area. These decisions point to a troubling disconnect between Durham's stated environmental values and its actual development practices.

So if Durham is serious about protecting endangered species, it must move beyond symbolic recognition. The city should require that mapped natural heritage areas are preserved. This is a good first step. Please align policy with practice. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. (applause) those are all the speakers I have signed up for that item. Uh, Council Member Baker, this is your item. Did you wanna, uh, say anything on it? Baker: Sure. Was there, was there a third speaker? Caballero: I don't- Emily sent a message saying she signed up. Yeah. She signed up for number four is what we've been told on our- Number four. Okay. Baker: Um, colleagues, this is a, a resolution... I'm not gonna read it all out. Uh, I encourage folks to, to check it out. Um, the, uh, wording is, is great. It's a resolution spearheaded actually by the mayor of Boone, um, Dalton George, who also does, uh, lobbying in Washington. Um, the good, the good lobbying, the rare good lobbying. Um, this is to designate, uh, May f- uh, May 15th, uh, 2026 as Endangered Species Day. Part of the reason behind this, we are not the only mun- municipality and local government in North Carolina to do this, is that lobbyists actually use- The communities that are doing this, we a- they, they add us to a number of communities that have passed something like this, uh, and they take that to Washington. So we are, we are feeding into a, uh, larger advocacy system, uh, to support the Endangered Species Act. Um, and it was actually the members of, uh, the En- Environmental Affairs Board who drafted this, uh, specific language. Um, you will also find in attachments, uh, an official letter of support from

the Land Use and Planning Subcommittee of the Environmental Affairs Board, who also, uh, commonly weigh in on, um, development review cases, rezoning cases, and annexation cases, uh, in Durham. So m- many thanks to them, to Astrid, to David, and the folks, um, on EAB who put this together. Caballero: Thank you. Anyone else have any comments? Okay. And so the motion before us is to adopt the Endangered Species Day resolution. Could I please get a motion? Rist: So moved. Kopac: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, please, please open the vote. Please close the vote. Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you. Um, the next items... I wonder, do I have anyone? Okay, I'm gonna move the order around a little bit. I, I wanna take up item, uh... We have a lot of speakers for item number four. Number 19 is pretty straightforward, and we don't have a lot of speaker- or actually any speakers, uh, signed up for that, so I'm gonna do, uh, agenda item number 19 first. Audience: Um- Actually, I want to speak on 19. Caballero: Thank you. Yeah. I don't see that. Do you? Sir, have you, uh, signed up with the clerk to speak? Yes. Okay. I'll just wait until 19.

Uh, thank you. Sir, when it's your time, I'm gonna call you up in just a second. I'm gonna let staff do their part first. Thank you. Good evening. R Smith: Good evening, Mayor Pro Tem, members of council, Manager Ferguson, Madam Attorney. My name is Ryan Smith. I'm director of the City of Durham's Community Safety Department. The purpose of this public hearing is to receive resident comments regarding the draft proposed HOME-ARP amendment to the fiscal year 2021 annual action plan and HOME-ARP allocation plan. The initial HOME-ARP allocation plan that the City of Durham submitted to the US Department of Housing and Urban Development in 2023 committed four million three hundred fifty-two thousand six hundred and sixty-one dollars toward the development of approximately twenty-five affordable rental housing units intended to serve qualifying populations. The City of Durham substantial amendment to the HOME-ARP allocation plan revises the previously approved use of HOME-ARP funds by reallocating funding from the development of affordable rental housing to the provision of supportive services designed to assist people experiencing homelessness in accessing and maintaining housing. Specifically, when I say supportive services, I mean providing financial assistance in the form of rent assistance, paying for arrears, and other things that compere-- clear pathways so that people who are experiencing homelessness today can access units, as well as case management, so that when people enter units, we're able to provide the support they need to remain in units. This public hearing is a requirement to submit a substantial amendment to HUD. The proposed substantial amendment to the HOME-ARP allocation plan has been available for public review since April 7th, 2026 and will close on May 6th. Notice of this meeting was properly advertised in the Herald Sun and Qué Pasa newspapers, as well as via the City of Durham's website.

The Community Safety Department, which serves as the lead agency for the Durham Continuum of Care, led a strategic planning process, as you all are aware, from July through January of this year that focused on developing a unified coalition and a credible path toward making homelessness rare and brief in Durham. The strategic framework was developed in collaboration with homeless service providers, health system partners, government agencies, people with current lived experience of homelessness in Durham, and many others. These stakeholders met together to assess our needs, our s-- current systems capacity, and what it would take to reduce homelessness in Durham so that it's truly rare and brief. After completion of this process, the Community Safety Department, in partnership with Housing and Neighborhood Services, determined that reallocating the funds to supportive services will have a significantly greater and more immediate impact on households who are currently experiencing or at imminent risk of experiencing homelessness. Reallocating these funds will enable the City of Durham to serve hundreds of households experiencing or at risk of homelessness starting next year, provide immediate and critical assistance, including housing stabilization, case management, and crisis intervention, strengthen the community's capacity to address homelessness and rapidly return individuals and families to stable housing, including through the provision of rental assistance, increase system-wide flexibility to respond effectively to evolving needs, and importantly, advance our year one goals to reduce the number of people who are experiencing unsheltered homelessness by 30%, youth who are experiencing homelessness by 50%. And veterans who are experiencing homelessness by 30% by next summer. The strategic reallocation aligns with identified service gaps and priorities within the local homeless response system and ensures that HOME-ARP funds are deployed in a manner that maximizes impact and timeliness. The city council is being asked to approve the draft proposed HOME-ARP amendment for submission to HUD, and to authorize the city manager to execute all administrative requirements and contractual documents for the implementation of the amended

FY 2021 annual action plan and HOME-ARP allocation plan to reallocate funding to supportive services. Comments made during this public hearing and written comments received from residents will be included with the submission of the HOME-ARP allocation plan substantial amendment to the US Department of Housing and Urban Development. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. You've heard, uh, the staff report. I'll now declare this public hearing open. First, do, uh, council colleagues have any questions or comments? Okay. Um, if you have signed up to speak, could you... Over here, sir. On this side. Thank you. And then just state your name, and you'll have two minutes. Public Speaker 7: We have two people speaking. We have Karen Miles and myself. Caballero: Okay. And, uh, if you have not registered to speak during- Public Speaker 7: She has. Caballero: Okay. Thank you. Just make sure you fill out a card if you haven't. Public Speaker 7: Okay. Um, good evening, City Council. Good evening, um, Durham. I am the Reverend Chris Rivers. I'm here, uh, advocating against, um, the approval of this, uh, re- allocation of funds. As I understand, the context is, is that when, when the RFP was issued, there were really no, um, solutions at that time. I'm not here just to advocate that we don't approve, but also I'm here proposing a solution. We can in fact, uh, satisfy this need to provide 25 affordable houses to the City of Durham at the, the, the cost allocated, um, to those, uh, t- in the proposal. Um, moving away from allocated, uh... Reallocating these funds puts us out of alignment with Housing Urban Development. They've already set their priorities, and their priorities are to put actual buildings on the ground. Our proposal does that. Reallocating these funds also, uh, does not offer the city a return on the investment. With the program that we're gonna put forth and that we're putting forth, um, it allows for the city council to actually get a return on its ve- in,

in investments, leaving the city, um, in a surplus of about $1.2 million based on what our current situation is. Um, right now we are in a state of homelessness and hopelessness. People can't see a way to afford housing here in Durham. We have solved that problem. We can fulfill this order. We, we have the proposed order, um, a- and we have the proposal, um, here forth. So today, we're just simply here to, um, ask the council to vote no In reassigning those funds and a- and, and asking that the council, um, do all the administrative processes to actually, uh, administer us doing the 25 affordable housing, uh, units in this community. Caballero: Thank you. Public Speaker 8: Good evening. My name is Karen Mangum Miles, and I am a, um, licensed real estate broker, and I've worked in the Durham community for about the last three decades. I have a very strong, um, desire to see affordable housing, as well as a strong stand to help reduce homelessness, because we deeply believe the solution to homelessness is, is obviously housing, and then building all those resources and support around that to be sure that they are able to sustain, and the longevity is there for these families. It has been a very critical situation for a very long time, so we really, um, are committed to bringing those solutions, as Chris mentioned, to help solve this very, um, serious epidemic, and it is a national problem, of course. We know it's not just local to Durham. When we talk about solutions for homelessness as well as affordability, Durham is a city of innovation. We all know that. In Durham, we need to use that ingenuity we have to come up with very individual, unique solutions for Durham residents. Durham is a very u- unique city. Although it's great to look at things that other places have done, it's

very important to look at what's going on here locally and what the needs are of Durham residents. So as we gather some information to support some of the things that we want you to understand, 17 to 44% more, these homes that TCBG can offer are 17 to 44% more affordable than other median sales prices. And with the gr- with the, the city partnering with us, we would create 100 jobs. There'll be land improvement, estimated 1.2 million to local vendors and suppliers. So there'll be tremendous benefit, not just to the homeowners, but also to the local economy here in Durham. So we really... Okay, we appreciate the opportunity to address the council and all those today present. Public Speaker 7: Um, just to point out again, this, this, this program has a significant economic impact. Over 100 jobs created- Caballero: Thank you, sir. Sir, you're almost- Public Speaker 7: Land improvement- ... Caballero: your time. Thank you so, so much. Public Speaker 7: Okay. Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Okay. Thank you. Public Speaker 7: Thank you. Caballero: Are there any other folks registered? Sir, can you just pass that to the city clerk, please? Thank you. Thank you so much. Is there anyone else who has not already registered who would like to speak on this public hearing item? You can go ahead and come up, and then sign up after you speak. Anyone else? Great. Since there's no one else who wishes to speak on this item, uh, let the rec- uh, let the record reflect that no one else has signed up, and the public hearing is closed and back before the council. Council members, does anyone have any questions, comments on this item? No? Okay. So at this point, I just need a motion. Um, first motion is to adopt an ordinance annex... Excuse me, wrong one. Um, to, we, to approve the draft proposed HOME AARP Amendment for submission to the US Department of Housing and Urban Development, HUD. Rist: So moved. Kopac: Second.

Caballero: Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close the vote? I don't know. Not sh- there it is. Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you. The next, uh, motion is to authorize the city manager to execute all administrative requirements and contractual documents for the implementation of the amended FY 2021 Annual Action Plan and HOME AARP Allocation Plan to reallocate funding to supportive services to qualify populations to include populations defined in 24 CFR 91.5. Rist: So moved. Caballero: Can I get a second? Kopac: Second. Caballero: Thank you. Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you. Mr. Mayor, good to see you. Would you like me to pass the gavel back? Mayor Williams: Not yet. Caballero: Okay. Mayor Williams: But good to see you guys, too. Caballero: I'm ready. Mayor Williams: I was following it on YouTube, but I, I need to catch up. Okay. Caballero: Okay, thank you. Uh, the next item that we'll do, um, is our item number four, which is the, we, we, the agenda item number 28, 28 allowed us to be able to hold, um, to take up item number four. Several folks signed up for item 28 to speak. I'm going to move you to item four to speak, so you're going to get your time. Um, we have lots of speakers. I am going to limit everyone to one minute.

Uh, this, and I, I do wanna, uh, council member- Audience: More than one minute. Caballero: Um, I am going to limit everyone to one minute. We have, I think, 40 speakers, so that's 40 minutes, if I've counted correctly. I think we have 40 speakers between online and in person. Uh, we have several public hearings this, uh, uh, public hearing items this evening. I said that at the beginning of the meeting. Um, I do wanna allow Uh, Madam Attorney or Council Member Baker before we start calling up speakers to speak on this item a little bit, if that's possible, and I don't know which one of you is going to start. Council Member Baker, I'm gonna pass it to you. Baker: I, uh, I'm gonna speak on this, uh, following public comment. Caballero: Okay. And so folks, just so folks are understanding that the, the, um, ordinance before us is for a temporary moratorium, some of the parameters have changed- Baker: Sure. Yeah, I'll explain that ...  Caballero: and so if you wanna explain that today. Baker: Yeah, I can, I can explain that. Caballero: Okay. Thank you. Baker: A lot of folks came here tonight to speak on a, uh, 24-month, uh, moratorium. That was the draft, uh, that had been presented, had been, uh, reviewed, uh, by legal and, uh, the planning department, and was moving forward for the vote as of, of Friday. Um, there are provisions in the unified development ordinance that these, our own, uh, regulations, um, that have never been used because we've never done a development moratorium, that, uh, limits, uh, the, uh, length of, uh, the maximum length of a development moratorium in our city, uh, to be 60 days without a planning commission review. So what is before us tonight is a 60-day, uh, moratorium,

uh, which is the first step. Uh, and there can be, there can be more to come from that, and that's all I'll say now. I'll have more to say later. Caballero: Thank you. Uh, are you comfortable if I continue to share part of that so folks understand that their minute tonight is not their only opportunity to comment on this because of what's going to happen subsequently? Okay. So first there will be a planning. We do not take questions or comments from the crowd to us. It would create chaos. Thank you. Um, this will be your first opportunity to speak. We are in process of working with the county. We have a unified planning department, so city and county, it is important that we move in alignment with our county colleagues, uh, because it can cause issues for us since we have a, a, a merged planning department. Additionally, this will have to come before planning commission. Planning commission also allows you to speak on an item. This will also have to come back to council down the road, so you will have another opportunity to speak, so if you choose, and you will have an opportunity to speak in front of your county commissioners. So with as many people as are registered, we appreciate your... All of us are very concerned about this item. This is getting national attention. Please know that your one minute tonight is not going to be your only opportunity to speak. If you choose, there will be at least three other public hearings that you will be able to register and speak at. I'm just sharing that because I heard some folks in the crowd being upset, and I wanted folks to really understand the process that is before us this evening. So we are going to stick to the one minute. Please don't jeer at us. I'm going to call folks. I'm gonna start with online speakers. I will let the folks who signed up for 28, I'm just gonna shift you to 4 automatically. You do not need to re-register or anything. Thank you so much for your patience.

Madam Clerk, I'm gonna start with online speakers. As soon as I can find my piece of paper. Uh, the first person I have under- Oh ... uh, online speakers is Cassandra Rowe or Rowe. Oh. Cassandra Rowe. Hi. Can you hear me? Thank you. Mayor Williams: One moment. Caballero: Real quick, I need to open the public hearing. Thank you, Madam Attorney. Um, let me declare this public hearing open. Uh, first speaker that we have is Cassandra Rowe or Rowe. Thank you. Good evening. You have one minute. Public Speaker 9: Hi. Thank you. Um, yes, I am a Durham resident. I work at a domestic violence organization. Um, I organize with Mothers for a Ceasefire, and I'm also an artist and a mother. And as a mom to, to a young child, I'm constantly thinking about who I'm raising him to be, and one of the things that I hope to impart to him is that he has the autonomy, the power, and the responsibility to think before he takes action, especially when those actions risk harm to himself and other people and his community and the environment. And this is a lesson he'll have to learn over and over again because it's popul- It's tempting to do what's popular or convenient, and there are billionaires and politicians crafting propaganda that would lead him to believe that certain things are inevitable, and that his only choice is to get on board or be left behind. Um, and I'm not the only one who is responsible for teaching my son these lessons and our children these lessons. Um, and I think that we (beep) have a unique opportunity here. Um, there is plenty of propaganda that would have us believe that AI- Caballero: Thank you. Thank you. Next up, I have, um, Zach Auten or Auten online, Madam Clerk. Is he there? Good evening. Public Speaker 10: Can you hear me? Caballero: Yes, we can. Public Speaker 10: Good evening. You have one minute. Okay. Thanks.

I had a, uh, amazing speech planned, but I'm gonna have to wing it a little bit. Um, basically I just wanted to s- uh, speak in support of, like, the strongest possible data center moratorium, um, ideally at least 24 months. Uh, these data centers have a ton of drawbacks for the communities that they're built in. They use an enormous amount of energy. Uh, they're bad for the environment. Uh, they raise, like, utility costs at a time when folks are struggling to afford rent and groceries. Um, and this is all so that AI companies can replace our jobs with AI so that investors and billionaires can become even wealthier. And I also just wanted to say that if this is, like, an issue that you care about, you should, uh, try to get organized in your community and, like, talk to your friends and family. Uh, reach out to organizations like, uh, Triangle DSA, that's a group I'm with, uh, labor unions, uh, DAE, UE 150, uh, tenant unions like Triangle Tenant Union (beep). Um, yeah. Thanks. Caballero: Thank you so much. So now, um, those are the only speakers I have online. I'm going to call folks up, uh, in groups of five. Uh, so when you hear your name, please, uh, line up over here and then you'll have, uh, one minute. I have, uh, Ms. Mimi Kessler, uh, Shawn Caple, Leslie St. Dre, Latasha or Latosha Gibson, and then Damian Gu. Those are the first five speakers I have. Pam Andrews said that she signed up and she's online. She signed up in person. Pam Andrews. Oh. I just have her for number three. Okay. Good evening. Thank you for, for being with us. You have one minute. Public Speaker 11: Good evening. My name is Mimi Kessler.

I am for a moratorium, uh, but 60 days is window dressing. In reality, Durham does not need this, um, to be a home of a data center with all of its impacts on environment and excessive water usage. We don't need the economic stimulus. As it is, we are struggling to fill the vacant jobs in Durham and housing for people moving here. The moratorium should be for a much longer period of time, in fact, forever. Caballero: Thank you. Um, (clapping) and we're gonna... the, the faster the... It will go better if folks just let us call folks up. Good evening. Are... I don't think... I think you're Leslie St. Dre, or did I, did I flip the... The order I have is Shawn Caple. Audience: Oh, sorry. Caballero: Sorry about that. Public Speaker 12: Yes, we are. Okay. Howdy. Howdy. Good evening, council. Caballero: Good evening. Public Speaker 12: My name is Shawn Caple, and I'm here tonight as a member of Democratic Socialists of America. Uh, I fully support Council Member Nate Baker's two-month moratorium, but it is only a first step in protecting the city permanently. I would strongly urge the rest of council to push for restrictions in the upcoming UDO on what types of data centers are allowed. For the data centers that are socially necessary, uh, we need to look at how to regulate them effectively. We should be looking at items like water usage, uh, limitations- We should have limitations on zoning approval based on their proximity to schools, places of worship, recreational centers, and re- residential areas. They shouldn't be allowed to use diesel generators as backup. I know that there are commissioners at the county level that are currently working on a 12-month moratorium, and I would suggest that the council continue to collaborate with them on the new UDO to not just prevent this type of harmful, uh, uh, zoning, but to prevent other forms of harmful zoning in the future. Thank you. (applause) Caballero: Thank you. Go ahead.

Uh, Leslie St. Dre. Public Speaker 13: Hello, I am Leslie St. Dre. I'm here, uh, with Community Land & Power as part of the Stop Data Centers in Durham Coalition. We're invested in protecting all residents from the harms of big tech, AI data centers, dirty energy, and dirty real estate, all of whom are putting our lives, ecosystems, and futures at risk for profit. Durham residents and every living being deserve the lo- longest, strongest moratorium, which will give us time for the best loophole-free per- per- permanent protections against these behemoths. Unless y'all are ready to implement a complete and total ban, there's simply no way this planning department is equipped to understand the water usage, energy use, climate, and ecosystem impacts, displacement impacts, and how to make legislation with all that in mind to protect Durham residents in under twenty-four months, given that they have little to no experience with moratoriums or legislation to protect people and our ecosystems. (beep) Caballero: Thank you. (applause) Good evening. Public Speaker 14: Good evening. Okay. Yes. So I am, um, for the moratorium. As an environmental justice advocate with a background in energy research, I wanna be clear, what we are witness is not coincidental. There's a concerning alignment between utility companies such as Duke Energy and the rapid proliferation of data centers. Duke Energy is justifying significant rate increases based on projected energy demand that is, at best, speculative, and at worst, inflated to accommodate large scale industrial users. At the same time, there's a troubling lack of s- transparency surrounding these data center developments. We e- we often do not know who the end users are or what technologies are being deployed.

If these facilities incorporate generated AI, the energy demand increases espe- exponentially, placing additional strain on the grid and ultimately driving up costs for every residence. So for us who study this issue closely, the need for moratorium is clear. As public servants, you have a responsibility to act in the best interests of the community. (applause) Caballero: Thank you. Mis- Mr. Gu, before you start speaking, can I please have Stephanie Gans, Brian McInnis, Mustafa El-Aniaba, jordan Grapel, and John Hargett line up? Good evening. Public Speaker 15: Good evening. Hi, my name is Damian Gu. Um, I haven't been here a while, so, uh, congratulations to Councilor Matt and Councilor Shanetta. Um, I'm disappointed that, uh, speaking times are suddenly cut down to one minute each, and that's exactly why I don't prepare my speeches beforehand. Um, I know most of you on council, but I'm not sure if I ever shared that I am supposed to be a software engineer. So data centers are dangerous. AI is dangerous. Well, actually, data centers are just bad, but, um, it's, uh, something that we definitely need a moratorium on until we figure out how we're gonna deal with it. Um, sixty days is not the two years I was looking for, but I will take that. Um, thank you for consideration. Thank you. (beep) (applause) Caballero: Thank you. And could... thank, thank you, and folks could just state your name when you... before you start. Thank you. Good evening.

Public Speaker 16: Okay. Hi, my name is Stephanie Gans. I'm a Durham city resident, and I work for an environmental justice nonprofit called Clean Water for North Carolina. A moratorium provides an opportunity to pause and make sure that data centers do not worsen the environmental injustices like toxic dumping and wastewater issues that we already experience here in Durham. Um, according to NC statute, a moratorium's duration must be reasonable and may not exceed the time necessary to resolve the conditions that warrant imposing the moratorium. It is very reasonable to put in place a moratorium that uses the maximum time that has been upheld by the Supreme Court of thirty-two months for our county and for our city. We need to take the time to study this very carefully. We're in a drought right now. North Carolina State climatologist just said climate change is really removing the safety net from our water supplies. Over the last hundred years, North Carolina's population has more than quadrupled, and when you add things like data centers that are not people but machines that are consuming water, that certainly adds to the stress that the water systems face. Data centers are also not paying their fair share in taxes right now, and there's bipartisan legislation to change that. Data centers are causing huge increases in our electric bills. (beep) Don't contribute to that. (applause) Caballero: Thank you. Public Speaker 17: Hi, my name is Brian McGinnis, and I just wanted to say in Marine boot camp, my drill instructor told me the pen is mightier than the sword. So you guys are our real defenders against these threats that we have, which has been explained as far as the tangible pollution that could come from data centers. Also, there's the enigmatic factor that, you know, AI is really stealing, uh, the journey part, the, the work aspect of us trying to create our thoughts through writing essays. You know, a lot of people just, you know, AI it. Um, and there's a lot of, you know, dealing with computers, with, uh, call centers and things that are de- degrading our humanity, and I think this is a trajectory that's really bad for us in-- as a humanity. So I really implore you guys to stick up for us against these data centers, which not only hurt our, our environment, but also I will, I think, degrade our humanity.

Thank you. (applause). Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 18: Good evening. My name is Mustafa Al Hmeida. I am a Durham resident, and I am a worker just like everybody else in this room, and I am here today to say not only do I support the moratorium, but I believe that this moratorium should be extended as long as humanly possible because these data centers will affect every aspect of our lives. I've heard things about drinking water tonight. It will negatively impact that. I've heard things about homelessness. It will negatively impact that. We are seeing the impacts on education and the way it's impacting children. Um, there are just a plethora of things that I could bring up, and you will hear probably every one of those things tonight from the other speakers. Um, but I just want to drive home the importance of the fact that there is no one issue that this moratorium will fix. It will assist in all of them. Thank you, guys. (applause). Caballero: Thank you. Public Speaker 19: Hi there. Caballero: Good evening. Public Speaker 19: Um, so yeah, I definitely, um, am in favor of a moratorium. I don't think two months is enough. I don't think two years is enough. Um, I think you guys have said some really great things tonight, but to be blunt, if you meant any of them, then you will fight to expand this moratorium. If you believe in fighting growing wealth inequality, then you will fight against these AI power centers, which will only give money to the already wealthy while taking away many of our jobs, increasing prices on many other things, such as our water and our electricity. Um, if you care about keeping our children healthy, both physically and economically, uh, you will prevent these AI centers from polluting our air and water. You will prevent them from stealing our jobs and, uh, you know, damaging the minds of our children. And if you care about keeping Durham beautiful- Um, then you have to oppose

these plans 'cause they're gonna destroy our air, they're gonna give us disgusting, uh, smoggy skylines, disgusting drinking water, and they're gonna leave our economies destroyed, leave our people dirty and poor. You have to fight it, please. Thank you. (applause). Caballero: Thank you. And then before... John Hargett, is that you? That's me. Thank you. Good evening. Before you start speaking, um, and your time's not gonna start, I'm gonna call the next five folks. And please remember to state your name so I can make sure I'm tracking where we are on the list. Uh, Rachel Perry, Andrea Casales, Tia Hunt, Shahud Mustafa, Efutu Yagun, Jesse, I don't know. Those folks. Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 20: Good evening. Uh, my name is John Hargett. I live in North Durham. I'm here to advocate in support of the moratorium on building new data centers in Durham. Most obvious concern with these data centers is the exorbitant water usage, with industry estimates showing a single large data center can use up to a billion gallons of water per year, or 2.7 million gallons of water a day during peak summer heat. And we all know Durham summers are getting hotter and hotter with the consequences of the climate crisis that we did not ask for. The second concern I have is on the economics of these data centers. According to studies at Harvard Law School and a Bloomberg analysis, after aggregating wholesale electricity prices around the country, electricity now costs as much as 267% more for a single month than it did five years ago in close location to these data centers. Lastly, on a more personal point, I am a local musician. Just today we learned that 44% of music uploaded to Spotify is AI, AI-generated now, with 75,000 AI-generated songs uploaded a day. AI industry is sucking the lifeblood out of the (beep) arts. Thank you for your time. (applause). Caballero: Thank, thank you. And then, um, there was one name that I missed, Tia Hunt. So if you're Tia Hunt, go ahead and come on up too. Oh, I didn't miss you. Okay. Good evening. Public Speaker 21: Good evening, council members.

My name is Rachel Perry. Data centers do not provide a service to the people of Durham. They will be a means to extract wealth from the people of Durham and the nation as a whole, and then disproportionately put the cost on whoever was unlucky enough to actually build these data centers. I support a moratorium not only for the two months, but extended indefinitely. Right now, the AI companies that are going to be using these don't even have a plan to make these profitable. Sam Altman said himself that he was gonna wait till AI actualized to ask it how to make it profitable. So right now we'd be expected to take on cost with no plan of any return. This is not in our best interest, and we need to- Put a hold on this until there's some plan to make this useful, if that is possible. (applause) Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 22: Good evening. My name is Andrea Casales. I've been a Durham nurse since 2019, and in the past year I got my doctorate, which means I know a lot about research or a good bit. Um, I'm very concerned because I don't know if you all know, but Nurses Week is starting on Wednesday, and I really don't care for a pizza party. I don't care for the freebies at a restaurant. I don't even care for a thank you. What I care for is a ban on data centers here in Durham, and honestly everywhere across the country. (clapping). I have seen the impacts that it does on people's finances. I've seen the impact it does on their environments, and in turn their health. We are called the City of Medicine, and if we're called the City of Medicine, we have to act in being preventative instead of reactionary once harm is done. Audience: Yes. Public Speaker 22: Saying no to data centers is actually the bare minimum,

and if you're gonna be protecting its constituents, especially being healthcare workers, the largest sector in Durham workers, then we have to make sure that we protect our communities in this way and so many other ways. So I really urge you to consider the impact it's gonna have on the health sector, the environment sector, and also our pockets, which are our livelihoods. Trust nurses, not AI, not developers- Caballero: Thank you ... Public Speaker 22: and no data centers. Caballero: Thank you. (applause). Good evening. Public Speaker 23: Good evening. Hi, my name is Tia Hunt and I'm a citizen of the Lumbee Tribe of North Carolina and an organizer with Seven Directions of Service, an indigenous-led environmental justice organization here in North Carolina. Um, I'm here to express my support in this current resolution as well as a full 32-month resolution, um, or moratorium for both the City of Durham and for Durham County. There's very, very little certainty that these developments would bring any good to the working class people of Durham, but we know for a fact it will line the pockets of big tech. Um, these data centers will pollute our land and water and aid in increasing state surveillance on our residents during already concerning times. A moratorium will allow residents and decision makers in Durham to learn more about these centers and how they can affect us. In the language of the land, (another language spoken), water is alive and it's all of our duties to protect it as much as we can. Thank you. (applause) Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 24: Good evening. My name is Shahad Mustafa, and I 1,000% support a data center moratorium which will hopefully become indefinite. Data centers are being sold to us as signs of progress, keys to the futures of our communities. The reality though is that data centers secure the exact opposite and signal further destruction to our communities. I ask you, council members, what do we as a community stand to benefit from data centers? The idea that their existence would bolster jobs is a myth. The increased property da- values that pe- people allege will come about have helped nobody but the wealthy, and more tech related to business is not worth the lives of your constituents. Please vote with your community.

There are other more urgent matters to be considered that take precedent to any data center. We have not adequately addressed the affordable housing crisis here, gun violence, food insecurity, and other issues that play a role in how Durhamites lead their lives. Our futures and livelihoods depend on it and you. Thank you. (applause) Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 25: Hello, my name is Efio Tujagun. Um, I am calling on the city and the county and the joint city county planning commission to, um, vote yes on the 24-month moratorium. I won't belabor the point on what other people said, but I do find it extremely disrespectful that we all came here and we only get one minute to talk. And we talk a lot about accountable and responsive government, and this is not what was demonstrated tonight. And so, like everyone has already said, data centers will increase our cost of living. Duke Energy is proposing another rate increase, uh, due to anticipated, uh, demand from data centers which need improvement to the, our infrastructure to our power grid, and we will end up paying for that. Uh, Duke Energy made $5 billion last year, but we will have to pay for the data centers that will further increase their profits. Thank you very much, and yeah, vote yes on moratorium. Caballero: Thank you. (applause) good evening, and before you start your comments, I'm gonna call the next five speakers up. Thank you so much. Uh, Wiley Cornblue, Angela Bell, Victoria Peterson, Samantha Krupp, and Annie Doran. Go ahead. Thank you. Good evening. All right. Public Speaker 26: Good evening, y'all. I'm Jessie. Um, I'm giving you the CliffsNotes. Don't worry, I emailed you the full thing. Um, whether you adopt our 32-month original moratorium, start and stop with shorter ones, or pretend wattage limits could dissuade these companies, they will use any time we give them to pivot to smaller scale centers, transfer ownership of existing buildings rather than seek rezoning, and straight up lie about the impacts of powering and cooling the servers to get these projects through without public input. It will always be in their best interest to say whatever it gets to get you to buy in, and it will always be us who pays the price.

We don't have more time or more water to be guinea pigs for their cash grab. It's infuriating to see how many people with power are actively gambling with our future to chase the dreams of private companies that want a full-time surveillance state. If any of us is going to make it through the next decade, we must end the narrative that this is inevitable and stop the churn of tech no- Tech supremacy. Look to places like Tennessee, Georgia, and Utah. People are already paying the price for data centers through displacement, illness, decimated environments, not to mention literally through power bills. We must consider bans, robust land and water conservancy, heavy penalties, regulations, and restrictions for (beep) existing infrastructure in our state, as well as reparations for people already impacted. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. (applause). Good evening. Public Speaker 27: Good evening. My name is Angela Bell, am I next? Caballero: It's okay. I have Wiley next, but they can go after you if they're here. Public Speaker 27: Okay. Is it okay to go? Caballero: Go ahead. Public Speaker 27: Okay, great. Caballero: Good evening. Public Speaker 27: My name is Angela Bell. Um, I am born and raised in Durham. I'm appalled at this, um, that it's even a discussion tonight. Um, I am definitely in support of the moratorium. Um, I'm also a registered nurse in North Carolina, as the other lady. Um, the amount of health issues that data centers bring into communities, people are unable to go outside of their houses without coughing. Children aren't able to go outside and play. I don't think this should even be a discussion. It takes five million gallons of water a day to keep the servers cool because they produce so much heat. This isn't something that Durham needs. I think it's time for each one of you all to search your hearts (beep) and ask, are

you in support of yourself, your pockets, corporate America, or Durham residents? (applause) Caballero: Thank you. Uh, Wiley Cornblue. Is that person here this evening? No? Okay, thank you for that. Peterson? Public Speaker 28: I'm Mrs. Peterson. I think if the city council can stay here until 2:00 in the morning, they could have given us more than one minute, and they have done that in the past. They've been here 2:00 in the morning. I have several concerns. F- first thing, Councilman Baker, when you speak, can you please tell us where you folks are looking at putting this facility? Also, can you make sure when you have a meeting that- The company will have a representative. Is this something, Mr. Mayor, that you folks are just trying to do on your own to put a data center here? Or do you already have a location that, that you already have something in mind where you would like to put the data center? Please, Mr. Baker, Councilman Baker, I want you to speak on that when you share some information with us because it is not in the information that you folks have given us. Also, I'm concerned, we have seniors in this community. I'm a senior. My understanding, these data centers put out a whole lot of noise. (beep) put out a whole lot of noise. I will be back- Caballero: Thank you, Ms. Peterson ... Public Speaker 28: to some of the other meetings. Caballero: Thank you. Public Speaker 29: Hi, City Council. Audience: Give me one minute. Public Speaker 29: Thank you again for the opportunity to speak. Yeah. Can I go ahead? Okay. Mayor Williams: Just, just for the record, you, you are gonna find very little daylight between what's been said and on this council.

I can confidently say that. We are not putting data centers anywhere. This is just part of the process. We do have to bring this to the council. It's a resolution. It was presented, and we're taking it up, but we don't have a plan to do that. So before we have the other 100 people speak, I don't want folks to come up here yelling at council members thinking that we're putting a data center somewhere. Trust me, when you hear our comments, it'll make sense, but we're allowing public comment first before you hear ours. All right. I don't... I hope no one told you all that that's what we're considering 'cause it's not. Public Speaker 28: Well, why are we- All right. Mayor Williams: Ah, ah, ah, ah, Ms. Peterson. Nope, we're not, we're not gonna do that. Caballero: Thank you. Go ahead. Mayor Williams: Let's go ahead. Public Speaker 29: Hi, my name is Samantha Crop. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I support a data center moratorium, and I echo the message of many here that we need more time to do it right. When it comes to data centers, there are many dangerous unknowns. For instance, we don't actually know how much water these facilities truly use. We don't know where this water will come from, which is especially troubling given the ongoing drought conditions and increasing demand for water across the Triangle. We also don't know the quality of the water that is used and discharged back to our rivers. Data center discharge may contain biocides, heavy metals, potentially PFAS, which are forever chemicals, and this is not a trivial risk to communities who rely on our rivers for drinking water. With so many unknowns, Durham does need the time to do it right. We need the time to establish clear, enforceable safeguards. It needs a permitting process for high-volume water users and meaningful enforcement mechanisms. And finally, Durham needs to put long-term protections in place to ensure water resources are not degraded. This work cannot be rushed. A 24-month moratorium is the bare minimum needed to get the answers to build the safeguards and protect Durham's waterways. As a soon-to-be mother, I'm concerned about our future, and I hope that you do what's right for our community. Thank you. Caballero: Thank, thank you. I'm gonna call the next five folks up. Thank you. And then let you speak.

Um, I have Gabrielle Lott Jade Brooks, Pablo Friedmann, Ashley Daniels, and, uh, Isaac Hessel Robinson Manager Ferguson: Ashley is 28 or 28. Caballero: But that's what we already did. Mayor Williams: No, I'm sorry. Caballero: Thank you. Manager Ferguson: My apologies. Caballero: And, and for the folks who signed up as, uh, under 28, I'm just calling you up as per item number four automatically. Good evening. Thank you. Public Speaker 30: Thank you, and thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Annie Doran. Um, I'm sure that many people have spoken on all these topics more eloquently than I can, but, uh, I do wanna point out that one of my passions is, uh, clean drinking water and, uh, wetlands, um, and waterways. And one of my great concerns is the presence of chemicals and PFAS in our drinking water. North Carolina, uh, infamously does not have great drinking water in many areas. There are some areas where the water is not particularly safe to drink. I would really hate to see that happen in Durham County. Uh, furthermore, uh, something I don't think I've seen pointed out tonight, um, is the infrastructure that it takes for these, uh, AI data centers to exist. Um, what we saw up in Person County was, uh, a natural gas plant created, and then lo and behold, we hear that a data center was being announced shortly afterward. So I think we have to take into account, um, some of these other possible polluting factors, um, such as natural gas plants, that it would take for these AI data centers to exist. Um, thank you so much. (applause) Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 31: Good evening. My name is Gabriella Lott. I'm a Durham resident, and I'm here to join the calls for a multi-year moratorium on data centers. Um, I wanna talk a bit about what's at stake if we don't pass a moratorium. Um, so what's at stake for y'all as a council is simple. It's gonna shoot yourself in the foot. Data centers will undermine the work you do on things like affordable housing

because it'll increase competition for land to build homes, and even if you can get people into homes, there's a data center raising their electric bills. Now they have to choose between paying rent and paying for things like AC. It'll cancel out the work you're doing on economic development because these centers offer next to no permanent jobs, and they're contributing to widespread layoffs. Finally, it'll squander the ci- city's financial and environmental resources because data centers will rob us of tax revenue and our water supply. Um, what's at stake for me is personal. I'm from York County, South Carolina, and every time I go home, I see how a four hundred acre data center is impacting my mom's neighborhood. People talked about the noise, waking people up out their sleep, and we know about the health costs that come over time. Um, (beep) so I'm asking today, pass a long and strong moratorium and learn from places that didn't. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Uh, Jade Brooks is next, then Pablo Friedman, then Ashley Daniels, and then Isaac or Isaac Hessel Robinson That's the order I have. Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 32: Hi. Good evening, I'm Jade. I wanna thank you all for hearing us all out, and I know that you all support what we're talking about, and that ultimately you all, I believe, want more than the two months we're gonna get tonight. So what I'm asking you all to keep fighting with us behind the scenes, get into the meetings that only you are able to sit in, fight for the county to make us much longer than we want. We know we need multiple years because we with the staff too. We want you all to have the time you need to do all that's going to be necessary to fight back in our community against these. And I know that you all are probably feeling that we're part of a growing resistance, not only to data centers, of course, but also to big tech's role over our lives, to big oil and gas' role over our lives, and this is part of what we do

to fight back against authoritarianism, which I know you all care about. (applause). Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 33: Right. Good evening, everyone. We got one minute. Maybe we should have all been developers tonight to get 10 or 15 minutes, but we'll do with (exclamation) one minute. Um, it is what it is. Um, all right. So I first wanna begin by talking about the process, um, to get to this podium tonight. So some of us were waiting for 10 or 15 minutes to sign up. Um, I think when we talk about, uh, the processes that we're using, if we have to wait 10 or 15 minutes to sign up to speak for public comment, I think that might be a time to move to the more analog system of the yellow card so we don't have to wait for 15 minutes. Thank you, Council Member Baker, for your supportive comments during public comment, so we need to revisit that process. I also wanna talk tonight about how we got to this point. So my understanding is that county staff sent over some information to you all, and that's now why it's watered down. I do think it is interesting when the rules get enforced when it comes to these types of issues. So for example, Lee Village, that redevelopment proposal, you don't have to do a TPO. You know you have to do a TPO, and you still pass it up, and now you're getting sued for it, right? When we talk about the UDO redevelopment, right, you're threatening to get sued, and then you (beep) pause it. Know when you choose to enforce the law- Caballero: Thank you ... Public Speaker 33: and when  you choose to leverage the law. Caballero: Thank you, Mr. Friedmann. (applause) Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 34: Good evening. My name is Ashley Daniels. I work at Toxic-Free NC. Durham houses five contaminated public parks and is still learning the extent of contamination in Burton Creek. We do not need to create another mess that our future generations will be obligated to cr- clean up later. Data centers rely on the use of PFAS substances and other toxicants to power their servers and keep their machines cool.

We do not need to add another source of PFAS contamination to our communities. As Duke Energy appeals to the North Carolina Utilities Commission to extract an additional 18% in costs from the people of North Carolina. The people in this state do not need to give profit for another industry. We support a 32-month moratorium. Um, yeah, thank you for your time. (applause) Caballero:   Thank you. And I'm gonna call the next, uh, five... Um, I think I have five more. Um, Sarah Yannick, Nicole Draplick, Edgar, Alex Trejo, Ava Paige Bannock. Public Speaker 35: Thank you. Caballero: Good evening. Public Speaker 35: Uh, hi, my name is Isaac Kessel Robinson. I voted in the recent Durham primary election partially based on my opposition to AI. I recently graduated from a tech-oriented college with a degree in computer science. Uh, and I work, uh... I was brought to the Triangle to work at a major tech employer. I do not know any tech-oriented people who do not virulently dislike AI. It has minimal to no positive benefits on society and numerous negative ones, including replacing critical thinking, mastered skills, and, uh, uh, skill, m- uh, and c- uh... yeah, those three with, uh, dependence on AI, uh, enables mass surveillance by governments and corporations, opens new fronts for sexual assault and harassment, and contributes to the widening wage gap by eliminating jobs at all skill levels. Uh, I believe that we should not in any way subsidize or enable this incredibly dangerous technology because these are problems that can never be engineered around. Thank you. (applause) Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 36: Good evening. My name is Sarah Yannick. I grew up here, and I'm also an environmental educator. I support this moratorium. I learned early in my career that we live not far from the place that many

people credit as the birthplace of the environmental justice movement. Warren County, where concerned citizens protested a landfill that would bring thousands of truckloads of carcinogenic waste into a community that was 60% Black. That protest and others after it taught me that environmental protection and social justice are not separate fights. Our care for the land and water are a core part of how we care for each other as humans. Durham's well-being depends on the well-being of the water and land in and around Durham. We need to be stewarding our waterways so that we will have the water we need in coming decades. That water is not guaranteed. It depends on our protection, on the protection that this council must exercise tonight. Thank you. (applause) Caballero: Thank you. Good evening Public Speaker 37: Good evening. My name's Nicole Japeluk. I'm a volunteer with Nuestro Barrio volunteer-run community center on Driver Street and a resident of East Durham. I'm here to urge the city council to pass and extend the proposed moratorium and put the people of Durham above tech billionaires. There are a few issues that n- must be considered for future regulations. Data centers devour electricity and our water supply. In Wisconsin alone, two hyperscale facilities are expected to use more energy than every household in the state combined. More electricity means more carbon emissions, more climate catastrophe. We cannot ignore who gets hurt first. Developers target low-income communities and Black neighborhoods, both for data centers and the fossil fuel plants needed to power them. Long-term exposure to these fumes cause asthma, cancer, heart disease. That's not innovation, that's environmental racism. Bloomberg recently reported that half of all data centers for 2026 are gonna be delayed or canceled. There's clearly community pushback across the country, and Durham will be no different. We should have the political power in our hands, the communities directly impacted, not the communities of tech... not the hands of tech billionaires or corporate politicians who will sacrifice workers, poison our communities, (beep) or distort our future just to line their pockets. Pass and extend the moratorium.

Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 38: Good evening, council and everyone else. My name's Edgar Arrieta. I'm a proud member with the Triangle branch for the Party for Socialism and Liberation, and I grew up for 17 years of my life in Warren County. So I grew up, uh, hearing these stories of the protests in, you know, this small town in North Carolina being the birthplace for environmental justice, um, in our country. And, you know, seeing in just these past few years, we have seen, we know, we have data, we have real people who have suffered and have been exploited from these data centers, from these corporations, from these AI booms that are just eventually going to fall because they're not turning a profit. It's all speculative, and I've seen very recently, in fact, the consequences of what not planning for our future can lead to. Um, I'm sure that y'all will do the right thing. Um, pass this moratorium, continue to work with the community with- for the 32-month maximum that we have. Um, I'll wait and see it. Thank you. (applause) Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 39: Hi, good evening. My name is Alex Trejo. I'm an organizer with Nuestro Barrio in East Durham, and I'm asking the City of Durham to vote in favor of a two-year minimum data center moratorium. When we make decisions that will das- drastically change the layout of our neighborhoods and our entire city, the people who live here deserve enough time to have a real say in what those changes look like. Data centers consume massive amounts of energy and carry serious enviromint- environmental impacts, and that consumption has been shown to raise electricity costs for residents across the country. With the cost of living already climbing every year, Durham families simply cannot afford another increase to our utility bills We've already watched Durham transform the interest of a few. An influx of private capital developers and luxury apartments has reshaped this

city while many of the people who built it and still work here every day are being pushed out by the rising cost of living. This is large part of the result of hyper-development that prioritize outside investors over the residents who call Durham home. Bringing in den- data centers without a clear community-informed plan would not only deepen that pattern, lock, locking us into long-term commitments with corporations that we cannot easily undo. (beep) Thank you. (applause) Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 40: Hi, uh, my name is Eva and I live in Durham County. I filled out my form incorrectly, but I hope my remarks make my position clear. I am in favor of the longest possible moratorium on new data centers to allow time for the development of regulations that protect our people, our land, and our water. AI-focused hyperscale data centers can use as much power as hundreds of thousands to millions of households. These data centers emit huge amounts of greenhouse gases and expose nearby communities to toxins that can cause asthma and exacerbate heart disease. Of course, in line with the long history of environmental racism in this country, this disproportionately affects communities of color in all the places we've seen this happen so far. Some of the largest data centers being built now cover hundreds of acres with steel and concrete, endangering our ecosystems and environment, and they use water with little to no transparency about the amount taken from local water sources, typically drawing from a single source to satisfy AI inquiries across the world. We are currently in a drought. I hope that you will support the moratorium for the longest amount possible and use that time to implement (beep) regulations to place strong limitations and transparency requirements. Thank you. (applause) Caballero: Thank you. (applause) Those are all the speakers I have signed up, so I'm gonna declare this public hearing closed and back before the council and back before us colleagues for comments or questions that we may have. Mayor Williams, do you want me to finish this out before we take a break? Okay. Thank you. Uh, we're gonna finish this discussion item, colleagues, and then take a 10-minute break.

Uh, but I'd rather finish and vote and then take a break, uh, versus cut us off in five minutes. Uh, anyone have... Council Member Baker, go ahead. Baker: Thank you all for being here. Thank you to all of the speakers, uh, who spoke so eloquently to the dangers of hyperscale data centers. We are here tonight because of you, because you wrote to us, you called us for meetings, you gave us text messages and phone calls. You made this... You put this on our agenda. You made this, uh, as important as it, uh, as it could possibly be, and there were a few of you who are the tip of the spear. Who put pen to paper and reached out and worked to make this happen, and that is why we're sitting here tonight. And I wanna name a few of those, uh, groups, uh, who, who have done this work. Uh, Community Land and Power, uh, I think, uh, has done incredible work. Clean Water NC, uh, North Carolina Environmental Justice Network, um, Merrick Moore, uh, Community Development Cor- uh, Corporation, and so, so many others. I can't name them all, uh, but shout out to, to all of you, to the DSA, to PSL, everyone who's, uh, raised your voice, uh, to this issue and how important it is. Uh, again, many of you expected to see a 24-month moratorium when you came here this evening. Um, and, uh, for reasons that I th- I think you now, uh, see, we are at this point, uh, temporarily stuck with a 60-day, uh, moratorium with, uh, with more options, uh, moving forward. Um, tonight, in keeping with the UDO, we are going to be voting on the 60-day moratorium. That buys us time to bring forward more robust language for a more robust moratorium.

I will say this: I think that it is vital that we have no less than a 24-month moratorium on hyperscale data centers in the City of Durham. Why? The enabling legislation in Chapter 160D of the state statutes is, is pretty clear about moratorium, and we need to have a reason. Why would it be six months? Why would it be 12 months? Why would it be 24 months or more? We need to be able to explain why. The longest moratoria in the State of North Carolina right now is 12 months. Um, that's what we've typically been seeing. However, the evidence is piling up. Uh, we see that hyperscale data centers are having detrimental impacts in communities across the state, but also across the United States, across the South. Uh, many pe- people, uh, who came here this evening have spoken to those very eloquently. They're impacting water. They're impacting electricity. They're impacting fiscal outcomes. They have negative impacts on social justice issues. They are locating themselves in places where the poorest live. Um, they are raising temperatures, uh, sometimes extremely, uh, close to where they are. A- and they have, uh, so many other potential impacts that we might not even know about. Uh, we do not want these impacts in Durham. I am concerned that other communities have not given themselves enough time to thoroughly understand this complex issue. Uh, yes, they can extend their moratoriums, and I do think that we're probably going to see that. But the safe route is just to, uh, adopt something longer that meets the moment and the need. Uh, this is a fast-evolving issue that requires time The best practices on this issue are constantly changing, uh, and being updated. Durham is the first of North Carolina's major cities to... N-

not the only one, the first one, to be looking at a moratorium and developing more robust regulations. Durham is in the middle of a stalled UDO process, and that adds additional complications for us, uh, in particular. And then finally, I have spoken with experts across the state. I've spoken with our counterparts in other communities, uh, in North Carolina who have passed moratorium. And because of all those conversations that, that I have had, because of all of these reasons, I do believe that we are justified in a, a minimum 24-month, uh, moratorium. So, um, I'm disappointed, uh, like many folks that, that we are not approving a clean 24 months, uh, this evening, but I see this as a first step. This is Durham's first development moratorium. Durham is the first, not the only, but the first of, of North Carolina's major communities to do this. And when the moratorium goes into effect, I am counting on a highly engaging and collaborative process with the community, especially those experts who have played a key role in putting this moratorium forward, the technical experts to do the research, to study the issues, to study the best practices, and ultimately, to put in place the best high-quality regulations that we possibly can. And my hope is that Durham sets the standard, (beep) at least for North Carolina, for hyperscale data center regulations and what they should look like. Caballero: Th- thank you, Council Member. Uh, Council Member Burris, did you have anything? Burris: Good evening, and thank you all so much for your, um, advocacy and your organizing work. As we... I share the same sentiment as many of you in regards to not want a data center in our community. Um, also to your point, Ms. Peterson, I had the same question initially, like, "Where's proposed data center?" So I do agree that

we can message a little bit better. I recognize that our staff has moved very swiftly to try to address these as it came before us in the work session a couple weeks ago. So I think that moving forward it would be, um, while I support this, we just need to make sure we figure out all of the legalities that we still can move forward. And if we may have provided a little more time, possibly could have, um, got that clear. So while 60 days is a start, I feel... it just feels like 60 seconds to me. And so I look forward in the immediate future as to learning more and making sure we're working close with our staff to learn more about what our options are, as well as using our voices to compel our colleagues to, um, maybe explore a longer moratorium as well. So thank you all again for your advocacy, and I look forward to hearing from you on additional occasions. But I just wanna also compliment our staff for being a minimal flexible as you all had to pull this together on very short notice. Caballero: Thank you, Council Member Burris. Council Member Kopac and then Council Member Risk. Oh, no. Okay. Thank you. Kopac: Yeah. Thank you, uh, Madam Mayor Pro Tem. So first of all, uh, happy Nurses Week starting on Wednesday. Appreciate that. Uh, my wife is also a nurse. Um, wanna say that I am, uh, firmly in support of the hyperscale data center mor- moratorium, which I believe is an important statement of our values as a community. The environmental impacts, the impact on our water supply, the impact on utility rates, uh, and the lack of jobs and real community benefits are clear. I appreciate the most important source of renewable energy here this evening, which is all of you who showed up to advocate. And I wanna thank you all as individuals, uh, as well as, uh, organizations such as SONG, Community Land and Power, uh, North Carolina Environmental Justice Network, and many others that came together in coalition to advocate this evening. Uh, this has moved very quickly, and that's because of the urgency and interest. Um, most qu- uh, much quicker than most agenda items that come before this council, and so I certainly understand, uh, the reasons for shifting to the 60-day

pause at this time while we work with the county and, and stay in compliance with our, our, our UDO, uh, to make sure that we put in place effective regulations, uh, which I intend in, uh, uh, on supporting, uh, the 24-month moratorium, uh, when it comes back before us. Um, uh, I'll just note that as the, uh, mayor pro tem said, there are other opportunities for advocacy, and economically speaking, the county is where we would likely see a hyperscale data center attempt to locate. So I encourage you to bring the energy to the county during the public hearing, um, just as you have here, and I look forward to a joint, uh, unified, uh, approach to addressing this issue for our, our great city. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Council Member Rist. Rist: Thanks, Mayor Pro Tem. Yeah, I just wanna-- I know that it's a long meeting. I just wanna echo the comments of my colleagues. Wanna appreciate all the folks here who have spoken, and the organizers. I will in-- support this enthusiastically, so thank you for being here. Caballero: Thank you. Mayor Williams? Mayor Williams: Yeah, thank you. Uh, just briefly, um, I... Like I said earlier, I think everyone on, on this council is, is in support of this. Um, I am probably on one of the very few occasions, um, I don't know, I might be a bit more aggressive on this than you, Council Member Baker. Uh, I, I think that, you know, Durham just needs to indefinitely, uh, have a moratorium on megawatt data centers. I will say that there is some language that's being worked on at the county level as well as the state level. Uh, and I wanna talk a little bit just, uh, 'cause I saw some familiar faces in here tonight, and, and I just wanna appreciate their concern on a recent incident. Uh, something that a mayor does is we listen to our community, and then we go and speak on behalf of our community. And one thing you're gonna find me doing is you're gonna find me, uh, trying to find the best options forward. Um, I understand that people use data centers. I understand when you pick up your phone, this phone is tied to a data center somewhere.

I underst- I'm not gonna not be in reality, but I also wanna be very vocal which, uh, in regards to land that we have here in Durham, we don't have the space for it, nor do we want that in here. We, we have a housing crunch as it is already. And if these data centers and the people who own them are wealthy enough to have them, then they're wealthy enough to build infrastructure in areas where it's needed. Uh, but Durham is not the place for it. I've been very clear about that. But you're gonna hear me talk to them. You're gonna hear me try and figure out what solutions they can bring, and right now there is no federal guidance nor state guidance. And so we're, we're kinda left out here on our own right now. Uh, and, and I have spoken to Duke Energy and others, and I, you know, I'm gonna try and seek solutions with them. That's what we do. We, we speak to people, we try to find solutions, and we speak on behalf of the interests of our community. Uh, if you haven't paid attention, pay attention to Northern Virginia. Northern Virginia wanted data centers. They invited them in, and they enjoyed the revenue that they brought in, and now they are humming machines behind their homes. Uh, it is a very uncomfortable living condition, and it's a high populous area. So I, I, I know the data centers are gonna go up somewhere. I know that they're gonna go-- they're gonna, they're gonna build. I know that. But I think that until we get some clear guidance around where it's most appropriate, and therefore we have to make sure that we are getting ahead of it when... While there is no guidance, we can put our own guidance there. Um, I've been very clear. This is a, a poor use of land, it's low number of jobs, and there are other creative ways that we can generate sales tax revenue. Uh, I invite you to support our small businesses- I invite you. Durham is still majority locally owned, so therefore a higher return on the dollar stays local when you shop local. We can generate sales tax that way rather than being... bringing, uh, large establishments like this into the area. Um, again, the federal or state levels just don't have the guidance for us.

But I will say I wanna shout out, uh, State Representative Vernetta Alston. She actually has a bill that she's sponsoring that puts some, some type of language, uh, and some rest- some guidance and structure around the use of data centers across the entire state. So, uh, I would appreciate having a little more time to work with our county colleagues and our state colleagues. Uh, I, I actually would like to send this back and, and, and work on the indefinite one and have more of a, uh, tiered approach, uh, that, that addresses us here locally. Uh, if not, we'll, we'll do this for 60 days. Uh, but I, I will say that I, I also may entertain the idea of a, of a task force where we can work with our county and state colleagues. Um, so colleagues, I may reach out to you all about that as well. Just be on the lookout. That, that way we can potentially have some vertical alignment and we pass it all at the same time, if you all would be interested in that. Okay, that'll be all my comments. Mayor Pro Tem? Rist: Mr. Manager, Mr. Manager, one more comment. Um, um, this is for staff. I don't know if the, um, city manager or others can address this. We've been getting some comments from residents that the... that there's... I know this has been a fast-moving topic, and that there are different, potentially different versions of the resolution online, on the agenda, whatever. So just wanna make clear that the agenda that we're... or the resolution we're voting on is the one that's in our packet tonight, regardless of what else may be on different sort of online agendas. Mayor Williams: It did change. Manager Ferguson: Yeah. Respectfully, I'm gonna defer to the city attorney, 'cause the attorney's office managed that item for us. Okay. Thank you. Attorney Rehberg: Um, thank you, Mr. Manager. Thank you, Council Member Rist. What you're voting on now is actually an ordinance, not the resolution. You've already passed and adopted the resolution, which was to set this public hearing. The ordinance that's before you right now has been modified. It originally was in the agenda process for 24 months, and again, as we discovered, there's actually a limitation in the UDO that if we were gonna adopt a 24-month resolution, it had to first...

A 24-month moratorium, I'm sorry. It had to first have gone through the planning commission, um, and we didn't have time to do that before this evening. The other issue is that we had gotten word, we, we do have a joint UDO and a joint planning and development department that we share with Durham County, and we had gotten word that the county is also looking at this issue, and it's really, really important that the two jurisdictions be aligned because of that joint structure. Um, it, it would be- Really problematic for the Planning and Development Department to administer something if the city were to adopt one standard and the county adopt a completely different standard. So I think it's really important to see if the county wants to act in this space. I don't know that we've definitively heard as yet. Um, but also if they do wanna act in that space, it's pretty important that the two jurisdictions try to align their, their approach. Rist: I, I appreciate that additional information. And again... And sorry, the ordinance, right, not, not resolution. But I just wanna make sure that the ordinance we're voting on is the one that's in our packet, correct? Attorney Rehberg: It is- Rist: Regardless of what else... Yeah, that's what I wanna... Yeah. Attorney Rehberg: Correct. Rist: Gotcha. Attorney Rehberg: Yes. And I do also wanna clarify, there have been lots of statements about wanting a 24-month. There have been some statements made this evening about 32 months. It's also important to recognize that the Durham Unified Development Ordinance limits moratorium for development purposes to one year. That's our own locally adopted legislation. Caballero: Thank you, colleagues. Is there anyone else with any comment or questions? Mayor Williams: Yeah. Uh, just real quick. I, I just wanna reiterate, we, we don't even have the land for this, so uh, but the importance of, uh, the importance of ma- mass megawatt, uh,

data centers, um, we don't want any particular land that does or structures that do exist to be converted. That's really important as well. Um, but I will say I spoke with, uh, some colleagues at the county, and they are moving on this as well. Uh, I will say I also would like us to be as consistent as possible on this, working with the county and our state colleagues. So we're... If we're passing the ordinance tonight, do know that modifications will come, uh, so that we can be on the same page with them. Caballero: Thank you. Um, I just wanna appreciate everyone who spoke. I wanna also lift up, uh, Council Member Baker, I appreciate you listing some of the, the groups. Uh, some of the folks that, um, had reached out to us are Southerners on New Ground, Community Land and Power, Clean Water NC, American Moore CDC, Sound Rivers, Mothers for a Ceasefire, the Durham Art Guild, Carolina Jews for Justice, uh, Durham-Orange County Jews for- Jewish Voices for Peace, uh, Triangle NC, um, Moms Clean- Moms Clean Air Force, the NC Enviro- and the Environmental- NC Environmental Justice Network. So I know that there's been a lot of folks, uh, working on this in this space, including some other groups that were named this evening when they spoke. Um, I just wanna share with folks here, we don't always agree on development on this dais, but a data center is not housing. A data center at the scale that we're talking about, this is not to support local hospitals, healthcare. We know that in some cases we have to have those, um, that we are... Quite frankly, we already have some of those. They're in the park. Duke Hospital has some of these things. They've been here- That's not what we're talking about this evening, and I know that's what many of you said, and that's what your comments referenced. I just really wanna lift up that housing and data centers and AI and big tech and defense companies, it's not the same, and we really do need to have nuanced conversations on what some of these things are and what the threats are to

our communities because they are real threats, and they are legitimate threats. Um, and so there was never a question. I know there w- I've had some meetings with some community groups. I've had some email exchanges. Uh, it was never a doubt in my mind that there wasn't gonna be unanimous support for something like this on this council. It's the same way that there's never a doubt in my mind on any single council I've ever served on. This is my third mayor. This is my ninth budget. You don't fight about LGBTQ rights in Durham when you're an elected official. You don't fight if whether you're pro-life or pro-choice. You are pro-choice in this community. You do not fight around immigration, uh, and standing up for our neighbors. That's who you have to be to serve in any capacity in Durham County. That's the expectation of almost every single resident I've ever encountered, and that means it's a blessing that we live in that type of community. But this isn't a fight. This is an acknowledgement and affirmation of what the community's already asked for. We have a lot of work to do before us around what the county's gonna do, what we can do, what the opportunities are in the LDC, the upcoming UDO around a moratorium. There's... Right? We have a lot of questions, but I believe in our legal staff. Uh, several years ago, I think when HB 153 sunsetted, Madam Attorney, we had to work around non-discrimination ord- language for housing and jobs for our queer community, and we had to work with the county because we wanted unified language that the county and the city adopted at the same time, and we passed that language, and it was unanimous on both, both boards, and it was different county commissioners and different city council members that are before you. So I just am sharing that as an example of the community you live in, the elected officials that you have, and the neighbors that you have. And in this moment, when we are fighting on so many fronts, this is hopefully not one that we're gonna have to fight with residents and electeds. We're not always gonna see eye to eye on some other things. We're probably gonna fight here in a couple cases, and that's fine, but

this is not one of those moments. This is where, uh, this is where I can feel deep pride and know that we are unified and know that the billionaires, and thankfully we don't really have any who live here, um, aren't going to keep stealing our future from us. So I look forward to working with colleagues. Thank you, Council Member Baker, for introducing this and for community groups for bringing it forward, and I will look forward to working with our county commissioners and making sure that we get this right. Mayor Williams: Mayor Pro Tem? Caballero: Yes. Mayor Williams: I just... I do have a favor to ask. Um, since there was such organizing tonight, I'm gonna ask you all for a favor. Uh, please pay attention to what's happening at the state level as well. Uh, I think many of you know I'm from Halifax County. And, uh, I had to step in and help out from a distance, but there was literally language at the state potentially authorizing a single county to infringe on three other counties. I think someone said they were from Warren County and someone from the Halo- uh, another, uh, tribe or whatever. But literally, fr- uh, Franklin County was gonna be able to take land with or without consent from Warren, Vance, and Halifax to allow them to utilize their water, utilize their land and their grid for this. So please, Durham is your low-hanging fruit. As a matter of fact, in many cases, and like this one, we're the fruit that's already fallen off the tree. We're gonna have to have... We have to climb higher up the tree because there are some things going across, going on across the state, but your organizing powers can really be useful. It's... This is easy in Durham, but there are some folks across the state that really need our support. And, and personally, I'm asking for my family, we, we could use some of this organizing power in some other parts. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. And with that, uh, the motion in front of us is to adopt a resolution to set a public hearing to impose a temporary moratorium on development approvals for data centers, cryptocurrency mining operations, and any use associated- Attorney Rehberg: Madam Mayor Pro Tem? Caballero: Yes, ma'am. Attorney Rehberg: I'm sorry.

We're on item four. Caballero: Oh, good Lord. Thank you. Yeah. That's what we did earlier. Um, excuse me. To adopt... So the motion before us is to adopt an ordinance imposing a temporary 60-day moratorium on development approvals for data centers, cryptocurrency mining operations, and any use associated with data center processing facilities within the City of Durham pursuant to n- NCGS 160D-107. Pl- could I please get a motion? Rist: So moved. Burris: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. (scattered applause) Caballero:   Thank you, colleagues. We are on break for the next 10 minutes.

Audience: Okay. Okay.  Listen up Video:  

I came to the city to develop leadership and supervisory skills. I stayed because of the city's culture and dedication to serving residents. The City of Durham, where careers meet community. To connect with a career that serves the Bull City, visit durhamnc.gov/careers. Everyone in Durham should be able to find a home they can afford. That's why Forever Home Durham is creating affordable, livable, and inclusive communities for low to middle income residents. From renting to owning, find out how the city is helping more people find homes right here in Durham. Learn more at foreverhomedurham.com. Owning a home provides a sense of financial stability, family, community, and pride. But housing prices are now higher than ever, making it hard for many Durham residents to afford their first home. That's why the City of Durham is offering the Down Payment Assistance Program to support eligible individuals with up to $80,000 in 0% interest forgivable loans to purchase a house within the city limits. Visit this site or call to find out if you qualify for the program. See a pothole? There's an app for that. Missed a pickup? There's an app for that. Need to set up water service? There's an app for that, too. Introducing the One Call app. Report your service requests online, on your schedule. Just download for free from the App Store or Google Play Store, then sign up and start using it to report problems, check the status of your service request,

or just find out more information. Try the Durham One Call app today. Here are some tips to ensure that your garbage and recycling gets picked up. One, your cart should be put out for collection before 6:00 AM on your collection day. Two, your cart should be at least three feet from all other objects such as mailboxes, telephone poles, fire hydrants, trees, and other carts. Three, your cart should be no more than three feet from the curb. Four, no vehicles should be blocking your carts. The mechanical arms on our trucks need direct access to your carts and cannot reach around vehicles. To find more information about garbage and recycling pickups, go to this web address. Caballero:  

I think we're gonna, I think we're gonna get started Manager Ferguson:   You're gonna keep going into pain, right? Caballero: I think so. Ladies and gentlemen, colleagues, I need colleagues back on the dais. Let's go. And I'm gonna go ahead and get us started 'cause we are already at quorum. I do wanna announce that the Canes game is tied up. For those who are paying attention- Third period ... third period, we're tied up 2-2. Count- council member Burris is picking on me. I also never watched a hockey game till my kids started playing hockey. Burris: Okay. Caballero: So... uh, I think, um, the next item... Sorry, y'all. Give me a second. I'm gonna keep us going, and we'll wait for, um... Okay, the next item I have is a public hearing, an economic development incentive agreement with AMAC Properties, Inc. Um, we have a public hearing, so I'm gonna go ahead and de- Oh, we have staff here. I'm gonna hear the staff report and then declare the public hearing open. Good evening. Dickey: Madam Pro Tem, uh, and members of council, my name is Chris Dickey with the Office of Economic and Workforce Development. Before you is an item to consider approval of a proposed agreement

between the City of Durham and AMAC Properties Incorporated. When the family opened Rosella's Professional Complex in the late 1980s, one of the first tenants was a daycare center reflecting their deep commitment to care and community. Over the years, the complex expanded to include a diverse mix of businesses, including a salon, barber shop, insurance agency, and a communication store offering phones, Wi-Fi products, and early access to technology well before such resour- well before such resources were widely available in the neighborhood. Now, under second-generation leadership, the AMAC Properties Incorporated plans to renovate a 5,800 square foot building to enhance curb appeal, improve accessibility, and upgrade building security. This renovation and redevelopment project will promote the continued revitalization, economic development, economic vitality of the targeted community development area along the Fayetteville Street corridor. Upon the completion, a project expected to stimulate new business development and stabilize existing business within the building. The proposed, the proposed project will attract $849,000 in private investment with $150,000 in city funding, producing approximately a 5.6 ratio to one of private to public funding. Staff endorses this project which would be an asset in promoting the vitality of traditionally underutilized businesses, including minority and women-owned businesses along the Fayetteville Street Commercial Corridor. The project, the project directly addresses a major goal of the City's of Durham's strategic plan in advancing shared economic prosperity, and it furthers the objective of, of the Office of Economic Development's Shared Economic Development Seed Initiative, which supports an ecosystem of strategies, business stabilization, business succession planning, and supports the growth and expansion of Durham's legacy business. Of- the Office of Economic Development is both a collaborator and funding partner in building key partnerships that increase technical assistant capacity in Durham's small business ecosystem, and help to preserve wealth

among minority-owned legacy business, as well as historically underserved residents working at local businesses. Caballero: Thank you. Uh, you've heard the report from staff. The public hearing is now open. Um, first council colleagues, do we have any questions or comments? Okay, so I'm gonna go ahead and invite, um, I guess, the applicant. Madam Clerk, would that be appro- no. Okay. Just any speakers. It's... Attorney Rehberg: Madam Mayor Pro Tem, it's not a rezoning public hearing, so the staff report was presenting the project, I believe, unless... Oh, well, the property owner's here. You're right. Caballero: Good evening. Steele: Good evening. Caballero: Um, how much time do you think you need? Steele: Just two minutes or less. Caballero: Perfect. Thank you. Steele: Um, hi. My name is Maricoma Steele. I'm here, um, to speak about the location. For over four decades, my mother, Marzella Professional... My mother started Marzella's Professional Complex, the business located at 2919 Fayetteville Street. It has been more than just a location. It's been a steady presence in the Durham community since 1984. Through the changing times, economic shifts, and neighborhood transitions, transitioning, we have remained committed to serving our community and customers, and supporting the local fam- families, and contributing to the vitality of this historical corridor. This grant is just not an investment in a building. It is an investment in the legacy, stability, and future of growth of our community. Our business has demonstrated resilience, dedication for over 40 years. We've created jobs, provided consistency and services, and other business growth, built relationships with spans of generations. Many of our customers are not just clients, they're neighbors,

who trust us for decades. With this funding, we will strengthen our ability to continue the services in the community by improving our space, expanding our offering, and ensuring that we will remain re- reliable and welcoming place for years to come. The support will allow us to adopt a modern challenging... modern challen- challenges while preserving the history and the character that makes our business unique. We are not starting from scratch. We are building on a foundation, a foundation rooted in commitment, preservations, commu- community impact. This grant will help us ensure that what's, what was began in 1984 continues and thrive well into the future, and benefit not just only our businesses, but the entire Durham community. Thank you for considering our application. Caballero: Thank you so much. Madam Clerk, I have one online speaker. Oh, and you're here. Go ahead. Could you just please state your name for the record? Public Speaker 41: Good afternoon, council, mayor, city manager. My name is Tanya Taylor Dingle. Um, my consulting team is M Cubed & Co. Global, and we've been working with the Office of Economic and Workforce Development on various, um, small business community projects. And so I'm here to support Maricoma Steele and her project. In 2020, the Office of Economic and Workforce Development worked with- started working with legacy businesses in Durham. In 2024, they continued on with small business, to helping the small business ecosystem by working with businesses that are along the Fayetteville Street corridor. Maricoma Steele fits into almost every demographic of all those programs and iterations.

She represents legacy businesses. She represents Fayetteville Street. She represents small business. She represents legacy commercial property ownership, and I'm sure I could find a few more pockets to, to... that she would represent as well. She is a shining example of what the technical support that this city is offering to businesses and property owners, and what it can do for this city. Her property, as you've read in her application, has been in business supporting Fayetteville Street community for over five decades. When you visit Maricoma or, m- sorry, Marzella's Professional Suites, which is a property that her mother, Marzella Steele, um, started, you're also going to be meeting multiple other business owners who have been given a chance, and that's really what they are given. They're just given a chance. How did she... How are they receiving a chance? Her rents are not exactly market rate. Now, that would make any economist or consultant cringe. But what it does is that it has created loyal tenancies. It's created almost a business incubator, even if she's not officially one, a business hub, and even a microeconomic center along the Fayetteville Street corridor. When my team interviewed her to assist her with her application, all she could think (beep) about was the possibilities, and those (beep) are the reasons why you should assist her in trying to modernize her space. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you so much. Madam Clerk, I don't have any other speakers signed up. Is there anyone here who would like to speak on item number 20? Okay, seeing no one signed up, this public hearing is now closed and before the council. Council members, do we have any c- comments or questions for staff or the applicant? Go ahead, Council Member Rist. Rist: Thanks, Mayor Pro Tem. Um, yeah, I think this is now, appreciate Mr. Dickey's presentation, the, I think the second incentive, um, grant that's come before the council since I've been on the council.

Um, I have been on record both here in the council but also in previous, my professional life, being very cautious about the use of public dollars to incentivize private businesses. So I think there's, for me, there's a high bar. Um, I love the story of the business owners here. I love the story of legacy businesses. I love the Fayetteville Street corridor. We're clearly as a city investing in the Fayetteville Street corridor. So I just wanna, for staff, I just wanna get a better sense of, uh, we could invest in a lot of businesses on the Fayetteville Street corridor, I imagine, right? So can you give me a sense, Mr. Dickey, of like, what's our budget? Like, like, why, why this business? Why not others? What's our... What's the larger plan here? What's the strategic sort of, uh, sort of orientation of the city towards certainly the Fayetteville Street corridor and these kind of incentive grants? Dickey: Well, I think as the consultant said, since 2020, uh, council has graciously, uh, given the Office of Economic Workforce the dollars to support legacy business through technical assistance, and throughout the years, we have a neighborhood revitalization grant as well. Uh, Fayetteville Street is a major commercial corridor that c- city council supports. This business sits along Fayetteville Street corridor. Matter of fact, it's in a very trying area. Difficult to, for business development along that particular area, and a lot of businesses that are currently operating in what, what we can consider to her a business incubator are paying under market share at that particular point. She wants to spruce up the place, along with some of the other city activities that are gonna go on to spruce up the activities, so that she still could be a stabilizing force in that particular community. This particular project meets the tenets of the neighborhood revitalization, meaning what it's doing is, is aesthetically improving appearance along that particular corridor. And not only that, we're still supporting a legacy business is what, in reference to the, what the strategic plan is asking us to do. Rist: Yeah, no, again, I appreciate all that. I think there's... All you've always said is, is true. I guess what I'm trying to get a sense out of is, so what is...

what's the annual budget at OEWD for supporting these kind of grants for... In this case, this is for- Dickey: So in this particular case here, we could get anywhere between 300,000, 300, $300,000 to $350,000 out of neighborhood revitalization program to support a project such as this. Rist: Annually, $350,000? Dickey: Annually- Yeah. Yeah ... between 300,000- And again- ... 350 ... Rist: so I, I'd, it... I've been careful. I'm cautious about whether it's a large incentive grant for big corporate employees, jobs or corporate employers or small ones. I, I do wanna, and I'm... appreciate Mr. Gunn being here as well. I know that our policy also says that we... that there's an evaluation criteria that includes a kind of but for financial analysis. So can you, can you give me a sense of like, but for this grant, what would not have happened? I wanna make, again, clear 'cause we have limited public dollars, right? Mm. So what's the... why the win here? What's, what's the... 'Cause there's, you know, there's also an old adage that the... you know, you've heard the old, uh, Lay's potato chips, it's hard to eat just one, right? And there's also the, the reverse adage is like, in- for incentives, there's the old, uh, it's hard to give away just one, right? So once we give away to one-to-one business, like, how do we... Again, what's the strategic sort of orientation? How do we... What is the but for analysis we've done here that, that indicates for this business, but for our incentive, this investment wouldn't happen? Director Gunn: Yeah, I appreciate the question, and, uh, good evening. Joshua Gunn, Office of Economic and Workforce Development. Uh, this i- is another example of a property owner who has assembled their own resources, right, uh, to the maximum amount of the resources that they can assemble. Um, and then that but for is it's gonna take, uh, just a little bit more to get to the finish line in terms of this project, right? It's complex. It's an older property. Um, there's been a lot of technical assistance with our department and M-Cube working with them to get them to this point. Uh, and that but for is the, the, uh, incentive amount before you today to

get the property up to the modernization that they're looking to get to. Rist: And is that... I mean, does that but for, is that like sort of a spreadsheet, or is that sort of more of like a feel? Like, what does that, what does that analysis look like? Director Gunn: Uh, the analysis. So one of the things that, and, uh, Chris, ple- f- feel free to jump in here, but I'll, I'll do my best here. One of the things that we have taken, um, Ms. Steele through is the process of, uh, the planning process, the design process. What is, what is the actual project going to look like? What are you going to need, uh, for this thing to, uh, solve for what is a significant challenge in the corridor, right? So I don't know if you know exactly where this is, but this is at the intersection of the, uh, American Tobacco Trail and the Fayetteville Street corridor. This is a part of that particularly challenged part of that corridor. And so prior to bringing this incentive, uh, before the council, uh, we helped do a deep analysis of what, uh, was possible with the property, what it would look like, and then what it would cost. Uh, Ms. Steele assembled the capital stack that she could, uh, and the gap that we found is what we put before council today for public support, uh, in partnership with her significant private investment. Rist: Gotcha. Thanks. Yeah, no, I think, you know, reading the literature on incentives, right, some of the best folks in the country that look at this, like, it's not often... It's hard to make the case, but it, but where you can make the case is when an incentive does bring economic activity to an area that might not receive that. So I appreciate that. I mean, I think this is a really compelling one. But again, I just wanna make sure we're clear as a city with a c- with a tight budget, if we're giving away public dollars to a private business, I wanna make sure that we're s- very strategic about how we invest those dollars. But again, I think in this case, with a neighborhood that needs that kind of investment, I can, uh, I think it does pass my threshold. So thank you. Dickey: Thank you. Caballero: Thank you, Council Member Rist. Um, Mayor Williams. Council Member Burris. Burris: I'll be brief in my remarks. I'm not gonna come sharp, rapid fire. I'm excited to support a legacy business, um, considering what's

happening in that corridor right now and what these businesses have to endure. As you said, this is right there, I believe, the intersection of Fayetteville Road and Pilot. And so if you drive down there at any point in the day, you'll see what happens on that trail. And so I can only imagine that at some point that may be a deterrent from any business owners in that community because of what it looks like. So I appreciate, and I appreciate the packet in terms of how we look for support this, um, private business. But however they are, they will generate tax revenue and commercial dollars that's gonna help essentially benefit our entire community. So I look forward to seeing projects of this nature that will make sure that the legacy owners, as that corridor is changing, that they still have some skin in the game, and they're able to provide for their families for generations. So thank you all so much for your work. Director Gunn: Thank you. Caballero: Thank you, Council Member Burris. Mayor Williams. Mayor Williams: I should have gone before her. Um, basically, I was gonna say the same thing. Uh, for a community like Durham who believes so much in equity, um, first I wanna appreciate Council Member Rist's, um- You know, re- focus on this. Uh, you've been very consistent on it. Um, and I appreciate you, you know, leaning in and, and but also, you know, making way when, when you see it's compelling enough. Um, but Durham believes in equity, and this has been one of the most divested communities, uh, in our city's history. The houses along this corridor were built by carpentry students at Hillside High School and NCCU way before I was born. Um, this has always been a community that's been invested within itself, and I look at it this way: two things can happen. Uh, investment can happen from within the community, or investment can happen to the community. Usually, when investment happens to the community, the people in it are placed out. Uh, and this is an opportunity for us to not necessarily gentrify but revitalize. And, and based on Durham's rich history, uh, and what's happening in the past, um,

there are some parts of the city where we owe, uh, some form of repair, and I think this is an opportunity to do that. So I, I look forward to supporting it. Caballero: Any other comments or questions? Mm-mm. Oh, sorry, Council Member Kopac. Kopac: Yes. Thank you. Just say very briefly that, uh, I'm glad we have this neighbor- neighborhood revitalization program. Uh, I appreciate Council Member Rist's careful eye toward, uh, use of public dollars, uh, and use of incentives. Um, uh, I'll just echo my colleagues, Council M- Member Burris and the mayor saying that I, I do believe that investment in this corridor is so critical and so necessary and so appropriate, and so I appreciate your due diligence in evaluating this, um, the applicant's long-term investment in our community in this corridor and their, um, uh, willingness to, to, to reinvest, uh, in this, uh, really important part of, of, of, of our city. Um, and so I look forward to supporting it. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you, Council Member Kopac. Unless I have any other questions or comments, uh, the motion before us is to authorize the city manager to execute an economic development agreement with AMAC Properties or AMAC Properties Inc. in an amount not to exceed $150,000 for building a renovation project at 2919 Fayetteville Street, Durham, NC. Um- Mayor Williams: So, so mo- So moved. So moved. Caballero: Okay. Thank you . You all Burris: will second. Caballero: Thank you. I have a motion and a second. Madam Cl- Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you. Congratulations. Mayor Williams: Congratulations. Caballero: I like when we get to do happy things like that. Um, uh, our next-

Mayor Williams: The rest of the evening is gonna be just like that Caballero: It's gonna be amazing. (guffawing) Uh, the next item... mayor Williams, do you want me to keep going? Mayor Williams: Yeah, keep going. Caballero: Okay. Um, item number 21, our next agenda item is a public hearing and economic development incentive agreement with CocoFro LLC. Um, could... Hello, Mr. Dickey, good to see you. I'll take our, um- Dickey: Okay ... Caballero: staff report. Dickey: Madam Pro Tem, members of council, um, my name is Chris Dickey with the Office of Economic and Workforce Development. Before you is an item to consider approval of a proposed economic development agreement between the City of Durham and CocoFro LLC. Co- CocoFro LLC is now preparing for its next phase, establishing a permanent home at 104, 1004 Morning Glory Avenue in Durham, North Carolina. This 1,300 square foot space will serve as a production facility and public-facing tasting room, bringing in manufacturing, retail, and community engagement under one roof. To make this possible, the building requires comprehensive rehabilitation. Planned improvements include structural pra- repairs, upgraded plumbing and electrical systems to support commercial eq- commercial equipment, fire safety enhancements, and the installation of a fully compliant commercial kitchen. Exterior improvements will restore the building's presence, creating a clean, well-lit, and welcoming environment. This project represents a tangible investment in a local economic growth and neighborhood revitalization. By activating a currently underused property, it will create stable employment opportunities, contribute to local tax base, and help shift the trajectory of the surrounding corridor. Thriving storefronts signal possibilities. They attract foot traffic, reduce vacancies, and encourage additional business development. By transforming this site into a vibrant, professionally operated facility, Coco LLC aims to demonstrate what is possible, hoping to catalyze further investment and long-term community stability.

The proposed project will attract $593,000 in private investment with $150,000... $115,000 in city funding, producing approximately a 5.16 to one point cent private to public funding ratio. A major priority of the City of Durham is increasing and strengthening the economic stability of the city. The proposed project, when completed, will be a key step in implementing the neighborhood assessment plan that was approved by the city council. This assessment plan calls for the renovation of blighted and underutilized buildings as a means of attracting private capital investments to promote business development and stabilization in the City of Durham designated community development area. The opportunity to attract this type of c- capital investment is somewhat challenging, since it's considered high risk for successful economic development. The project will serve as a catalyst to attract additional business and development projects to this area. Staff endorses this project, which is in alignment with the goals and objectives of the Neighborhood Revitalization Grant Incentive Program. Caballero: Thank you. I'm gonna declare this public hearing, uh, open now that we've heard the staff's report. Colleagues, um, before I invite any speakers, do you have any cal- uh, questions or comments for staff? Okay, go ahead, Council Member Rist. Rist: Uh, Mr. Dickey, um, can... I just have a question about the location here, and this came up in a conversation with the applicant. So this is in the Goose Creek outfall area, right? Dickey: Correct. Rist: Um, and you've mentioned sort of plumbing improvements, commercial kitchen. So is, is, is this project in any way... I know we've sort of like, we're now trying to deal with the capacity in the Goose Creek area. Is this, is this... Have y'all looked with planning to, to make sure that this is compliant with given our new, uh, sort of how we're proceeding with the sort of development approvals in the Goose Creek outfall area? I don't know if the manager knows as well, but I just wanna make sure we're, that we're not sort of running afoul of those, uh, restrictions that are in place right now as we address the sewer capacity.

Dickey: Can you hold, hold on one second, please? Director Gunn:   Yeah, we, we haven't discussed that with planning. We can do that and then report back, uh, as it relates to the plan. Um, so yeah, we don't, we don't, we don't have an answer for that. Rist: Okay. Dickey: Excuse me. What... Excuse me. What I do have an answer for is what our office has been asked to do here, and that is a blighted building that has been blighted for about three or four, about three or four years. It was a, a church at one time, a coffee shop at one time. And if you go behind Morning Glory, Morning Glory Avenue, in that particular area, it's right behind Golden Bell. If you look in that particular area, there's half a million dollar houses that are lined up there, but what you see on the corner there is a house that's currently on for sale that's blighted. The next piece of property over is this particular property, which has been sitting there. And then there's a new property that's currently going through zoning right now. And then, then the next property is a property that was just recently redeveloped by Core, which is a, a, a lounge that has opened in the past year. So there's been some strategic things happening along that corridor, and I-- and we just believe in reference to anything that's in our community development area that's going to bring production. Uh, we have an individual who lives in Durham, who's moving his business from Hillsboro, who's gonna upgrade that building. And I believe, and we believe over the years will create jobs, although this is not a job creator initially. But what we are doing is bringing some stabilization to this neighborhood and getting ridy- getting rid of an eyesore that currently exists there. And that's the purpose of the neighborhood revitalization. Rist: Yes. Again, again, understand all that. Appreciate the sort of the business itself. Under- appreciate the, the, uh, the neighborhood and, and efforts to sort of revi- revitalize the neighborhood. I just... I wanna make sure that if we're making an investment again,

that, that this is something that can- Take place in the next couple years as we're dealing with sewer, and we do have planning staff here. I would like to know, uh, get some sense of, like, w- what's the impact of this potential business or, or how it impacts the sort of the, the Goose Creek outfall issue we have with sewer capacity. Director Young: Good evening. So, um, as Director Gunn mentioned, we haven't had a chance to look at this together. Uh, as you know, Water Management is looking closely at these and finding ways to, uh, permit projects, uh, as long as, uh, there is some nominal increase. They s- uh, you've been seeing utility extension agreements come through, uh, fairly quickly now. So there are other ways, uh, that improvements can be, uh, made in terms of tying into a- adjacent areas, et cetera. So I can't speak for Water Management and the specifics of this site, but I can tell you that it is something that we will look at with them. Manager Ferguson: If I may. Caballero: Mm-hmm. Uh, uh, Manager Ferguson: Council Member Rist, thanks, staff, for providing the context. But, um, m- my read of the pr- so first of all, we, we don't have a clear answer for you tonight. We'll get one. Uh, my read of the project as a, as a rehabilitation is it is likely under the threshold of anything that would trigger any concerns in the Goose Creek basin. But, uh, we will get information for council and clarify that going forward. Uh, my recommendation would be for council to go ahead and consider the item tonight and give us your direction. Should we find that there's anything that, uh, that prevents this project from moving forward, be happy to notify that council and make this contingent on that, but, uh, that'd be my recommendation this evening. Caballero: Thank you. Okay. I think Mayor Williams, Council Member Burris, Council Member Baker. Mayor Williams: Yeah, that was gonna be my comment. I... To my understanding, based on prior, uh, uh, matters, uh, if this

was adding additional, uh, needs or needing more capacity than what's already allotted, then it would not. But I... Is this the, the, the little white church-looking thing where, um- Dickey: Yeah Mayor Williams: a coffee shop was once? Dickey: Yeah. Mayor Williams: So, so it was... So it had functioning plumbing, uh, and that w- that was just a few years ago. And, um, I mean, you're... Are you ex- expanding to the point where it's gonna be, like, some big business, more ca- Is it still gonna be- Commercial kitchen ... it's st- still the... Is it still gonna be the same, um... I guess what I'm asking is, is- Director Gunn: Similar, similar u- usage thresholds ... similar usage. Yes. Yes. Mayor Williams: Yeah. So I guess that's the information we'll need to get back. Uh, to my understanding, there's been, uh, I don't wanna say a one for one, but the, the nominal, uh, uh, usage or, or increases or, or just a l- yeah, the nominal increases if needed, um, that, then I think it would be fine. But that's what... I just wanted clarity on that. Director Gunn: Thank you. Caballero: Thank, thank you, Council Member Burris Burris: Okay. Um, I just have a quick question. In the packet we received, is there any particular reason why the grant application is empty? It's, like, nothing in there at all. Well, it's just blank. It's just eight pages of, like, nothing. Dickey: That should not be. That was an, an oversight. That was- Burris: No, this one ... Dickey: there. Burris: If you swipe, you don't... See, it's nothing in here. Yeah, it's empty. It's empty. Oh, it- And there's only a narrative. Mayor Williams: Yeah, the text didn't copy over. Dickey: Yeah, this is the application here. I don't know what- Director Gunn: Yeah, it doesn't seem to copy over. We got the application piece. Mayor Williams: Okay. Yeah, the form didn't copy over, seems to me. Caballero: Council Member Burris, did you have any other questions? Burris: No. Well, I guess, like, just to be... As we've gone through before, you

know how I am about applications and everything being there. I wanna make sure, 'cause I did have a, a chance to speak to the applicant earlier, um, and I expressed my concerns in regards to the time it would take for you to actually, um, hire folks. We know this community is definitely undergoing changes, and there are some commercial businesses there, but if you go on the other side of the street, there's a lot of activity there as well. And so I believe you said that you guys will be hiring, like, six to eight people within the next two years or so, and so I'm just trying to make sure that the city is get their bu- The same to my colleague, Council Member Rist. If we are preparing our staff for a tough budget year, I wanna make sure we're allocating dollars in a way that gives the biggest bang for our buck. And so having a critical piece of information that is missing, um, gives me a little bit of pause in terms of, like, I do see the pers- the b- the, um, business project narrative, but I don't have that other information, so that is where I'm landing at right now. Caballero: Thank you, Council Member Burris. Council Member Baker? Baker: Yeah. I, appreciate all the comments of my, my colleagues. And, and Council Member Burris, thank you for, uh, your questions on, on both of these, uh, items. Um, definitely, uh, have some, some heartburn myself. Um, I guess I would just say that, um, moving forward, I would be, you know, comfortable, more comfortable with tightening up the vision and the policies that are, that are, uh, supporting these, and then also just making sure that departments are, are talking to each other, um, and notifying one each other, o- one another, so that they can identify any of these kind of big, bigger issues. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Um, this is a public hearing. I don't have anyone signed up to speak, but I don't know if the property owner or if anyone else, uh, wanted to speak. Thank you. Go ahead. Good evening- Hey ... Mr. Freelon. Freelon: Good evening, Mayor pro Tem and, uh, Mayor, City Council members. Um, my name is- Mayor Williams: You can lift that up. Caballero: You can, you can lift- Y- uh, there's a button, like, kind of... No, the... To the right of, to the right of the- One, two?

Oh, here we come Freelon: Okay. Mayor Williams: Just, uh, your right hand under it. Up there, there she is. Freelon: I have to press the button? (laughter) There it is. Staff: I'm gonna help you out here. Thank you. Director Gunn: Look at that. Freelon: Set, set my own time limit? Okay. Ooh. Caballero: No, I was about to ask you, Freelon: uh Make the podium taller. Thank you. Awesome. Caballero: Uh, Mr., Mr. Freelon, how, how much time do you believe you need? Freelon: Oh, just 90 seconds will be plenty. Caballero: Perfect. Thank you. Can you please put two minutes on the clock, Mayor- I mean, Madam Clerk. Freelon: Greetings. Uh, my name is Pierce Freelon. My wife and I, uh, started a freeze-dried ice cream company called Coco Fro last year based out of Hillsborough, North Carolina, and quickly outgrew the commercial kitchen, the Piedmont Food Processing Center, where we were renting, and started looking for a place to expand. And we want to serve ice cream, we wanna create living wage jobs, and build manufacturing infrastructure in a historically under-invested area of East Durham, and we can't do that without support from the city. Uh, we don't wanna move to Oxford or Morrisville or Raleigh. Uh, we wanna plant seeds right here in Durham, where I was born, where our family's raised, and where our first client is at the Museum of Life and Science. Um, so I'd like to thank, uh, Mr. Dickey and Mr. Gunn, uh, and the wonderful folks at the Office of Economic and Workforce Development for seeing the vision and partnering with us to put this on today's agenda, and we hope to have your support. And I do wanna say one thing about, uh, Mr. Rist's question. We met earlier this week. Uh, I, I did look into the, uh, Goose Creek sewer capacity website and, um, saw there that, um, on the FAQ page it says, "Does this affect current residents or businesses?" And no, the only issue affects new development projects in the impacted area. Existing homes and businesses are not at risk. So, um, I appreciate you bringing that question to me and tried to do a little digging myself, and according to the website, uh, this is not a new development. It is a, it's an, it's an existing space, and the capacity will be similar

to what the previous capacity was. We just need to build it up to be a commercial kitchen, uh, so we can make our product. Um, so thank you for your time and appreciate your consideration. Caballero: Thank you. Uh, that is the only speaker that we have, so the public hearing is now closed, and this item is now before the council. Does anyone else have any other questions or comments to make before I ask for a motion? Mayor Williams? Mayor Williams: Yeah. I'll, I'll say, um, uh, I'm gonna support this even though the application itself is not in the packet. I do have enough information. I need it. Uh, I wanna be very clear. Um, I support our small businesses, support our small business community. Um, we just landed the biggest investment in Durham's history, um, AbbVie. They're investing $1.4 billion in our community, and we put up a huge incentive of millions. And, um, they are coming out of Illinois, coming out of Illinois to here. Uh, this is a Durham-based business- Uh, that I look forward to supporting. It's not millions, but it's, it's a business that we can invest in here locally. And again, I think that, you know, considering the history of Durham, we have a lot of paying back to do, and I think that even in a, in a tight budget year, I don't wanna let technicalities hold up an opportunity to, uh, support another small business in this community. And I can tell you firsthand as a small business owner, there are vulture commercial tenants, uh, commercial, um, landlords out there, and it is a very, very aggressive world to try and do small business in. So, uh, if you have the commercial space, commercial real estate space where it's extremely aggressive, and you have a history of divestment in small locally-owned businesses, especially Black-owned businesses, and you have a, a... just the ability to do business t- in this industry, in this market right now as it is, the only place sometimes you can go is to your city.

And I think Durham is a community where we're willing to invest in our, uh, in our own. Um, so I'll support it. Caballero: Uh, Council Member Kopac. Kopac: Just to assuage the concerns perhaps of staff, like it may be issue of laptop versus iPad, but I'm on my laptop and I have access to the completed application. Dickey: Okay. That makes us feel better. Kopac: So it sounds like there's a technical issue. There's a glitch in there, but the completed application was included, uh, and I can see it. Dickey: Well, thank you. Mayor Williams: Yeah. Uh, and I, I apologize. I'd like council members to let me know which of you had trouble. I know we verified it. It is on the website, and it is in my packet. It sounds like it's not in some of yours, so definitely wanna get to the bottom of that. But do wanna verify that it was made available to the public. Anyone who had reviewed this beforehand should've gotten that attachment, and we apologize for the problem. Burris: Thank you, Manager Ferguson. Uh, Council Member Rist, did you have a question? Rist: Yeah. No, just, just to say I have deep appreciation for the applicant, one of our former colleagues here on the, on the dais, so thanks for being here. Um, I, I do love the investment in East Durham, as the mayor said. I, um, but I d- I do feel like I'm not quite ready to support this with... given the questions we have are about the sewer capacity. We're talking about increasing sort of manufacturing capacity. I don't have the application here. I don't... I feel like when we're, again, utilizing scarce public resources, I think voters want us to make sure we know what we're doing when we're casting a vote. I don't have the, the information here. I don't know if that's a mis- error on the part of the city or... But I, I'm, I'm just not, without that information, not comfortable, uh, right now with this. So thank you. Caballero: Mayor Williams, go ahead. Mayor Williams: Would, would we be interested in maybe, uh, sending, continuing it or sending it back or, uh, until we get the technic- I just don't wanna blame , an applicant on something that's a technicality on our part. 'Cause I, I, I think it's fair. You can't see the application. I can't see the application. Uh, and we feel differently. You can't see the application, but, you know, we feel differently about it. I don't think we should vote up or down on something that's a technicality

on our part And that, it doesn't, y- you're a former council member, but it has nothing to do with it. It's for anyone that would be in this situation. Caballero: Tha- thank you. Um, council colleagues, does anyone have a comment or question around that? Council Member Burris, I know you were one of the... Did, did you wanna address that? Burris: Yeah, and I just wanna clarify that they will also, like, provide space for Council Member Rist questions to be addressed as well before we come back, right? Mayor Williams: Yeah, the best. Burris: Okay, that's fine. Caballero: I think we would leave the public... Well, I closed the public hearing, so I don't think we can leave it open, but we can... I don't know how it would work with this- Burris: Did you close? ... Caballero: Madam Attorney. Burris: Oh, you did close it. Caballero: Can I reopen it? Attorney Rehberg: I think you could reopen it- Caballero: Okay. So I- ... Attorney Rehberg: and then continue it to- Caballero: I think what we could do is just reopen- ... Attorney Rehberg: June 1st ... Caballero: the public hearing and, um,  that would give staff an opportunity to upload the appropriate documents. Um, council colleagues, do we wanna do it to the next one, to the subsequent one? I guess that's the question I have for y'all. I, I feel like we do need to deal with this before we go on our break in June, so, uh, one cycle or two? Rist: I mean, however long it'll take staff to- Caballero: And I guess it's a question for staff- Rist: Yeah, staff ... Caballero: around, um,  uh, public hearings- Rist: Water ... Caballero: at the, at the  next... I guess the que- Okay, let me synthesize the question. So one is making sure the application is in our packet so that council can see it all. Two was to make sure that the water department has done the necessary analysis on the Goose Fall Out Creek thing. Sorry. Um, and um, I think those are the two kinda outstanding questions that council member or council colleagues had. And so, um, I would... I'm gonna look at Director Young, 'cause you probably know how many zoning cases we have next round, and I think that does influence if we go to one or two cycles out. Director Young: It's loading.

Sorry. So you're asking about whether to go one or two cycles out? And the Ma- Madam Attorney just reminded me that the May 18th, when we have a long work session, a council meeting, and its public hearing, so maybe we wanna go to the subsequent one, the first one in June. But that's a public hearing for- Manager Ferguson: Budget Attorney Rehberg: budget Caballero: the budget. Director Young: Yes. Caballero: So either way, we're kind of gonna be here a long time. Director Young: We- Caballero: 'Cause if maybe the second one, this, the one in June would be better 'cause that way we're not doing a work session and a council meeting and all... Okay. Yeah. And you're nodding your head yes as that's the better option. Um, Mr. Freelon, are you comfortable with that? It would be two cycles, so the first, whatever, I think June, June 1st. It would be Monday, June 1st. Okay. Okay. Um, so I'm gonna reopen, uh, declaring the public hearing... Nope, I closed it. I need to r- reopen it. I'm gonna reopen the... The public hearing's now open again. We are going to continue this case, um, until June 1st at our council meeting. Thank you so much. Director Young: Thank you. Caballero: And then w-we're gonna reorder the next agenda items because the way that it's listed, it's, um, I... My belief is that items 23, 24, and 25 are going to be pretty straightforward. We don't have a ton of speakers on those, so we will be taking up item number 22 last. Colleagues, are we good with that? Yes. So, so... It lets folks who don't need to be here go, so it- it is helpful for folks. I know, it's hard. Um, so the first, um, item that I have then is item number 23, consolidated annexation, uh, 1735 Fletcher Chapel Road.

Planner Burgess:   Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Tem Caballero, and honorable council members, good evening. I am Peyton Burgess with the Planning and Development Department, and I am happy to be here with you tonight. A request for a utility extension agreement, voluntary annexation, and initial zoning map change has been received from Gray Madden with Madden Construction for one parcel of land zoned residential rural, totaling 0.83 acres and located at 1735 Fletcher's Chapel Road. This annexation petition is not contiguous to the primary corporate limits and would create a new satellite. This request would allow the applicant to connect to city water and sewer for one single family home. This is a direct translational zoning. A direct translational zoning is one in which the existing Durham County zoning is translated to the identical Durham City zoning district upon the annexation of the property into the city limits. Since there is no request for a change to the existing zoning attached to this annexation petition, there is not a development plan under consideration, and therefore no proffered commitments. Any future development may proceed according to what the zoning would allow. The properties are currently designated mixed-use neighborhood on the place type map. The existing residential rural zoning is generally consistent with the designated place type. If the proposed zoning is approved, there will be no change to the place type designation. Thank you. Staff and the applicant are available for any questions, um, and I believe the applicant is available online. Caballero: Thank you. Um, and we've heard the staff report. Now declare this public hearing open. Uh, colleagues, does anyone have questions for staff at this time? Okay. Um, the applicant is online, and then I have one proponent and one opponent signed up. Those are all the speakers I have. Madam Clerk, is that correct? Okay, thank you. Can, um, we make the applicant hearable?

Madden: Hey, can you hear me? Caballero: Yes, we can, Mr. Madden. Good evening. How much time do you think you'll need? Madden: Uh, just a minute. Caballero: Okay. Madam Clerk, could you please put two minutes on the clock? Madden: Uh, I'm a local builder. I actually live right around the corner from this property. Uh, it's just a single lot. Uh, we're looking to get annexed into the city so that we're able to tie into the utilities, uh, water and sewer that pass right in front of the lot currently. Uh, just one single family home. The owner of the property was actually there at the meeting, and I think he had to leave. Um, but he's a local business owner as well. Uh, if there's any questions or concerns, I'm, I'm happy to address them. Caballero: Thank you. Um, that's the only... Okay, and then I have, um, Pablo Friedman signed up. I meant for 23. Sorry. Okay, I have you down as 23, so I'll call you for 22. Sorry, for 23. The opposite of what I just said. Okay, I don't have, um, any other speakers this evening, so this public hearing is now closed and back before the council. Council members, any questions or comments before I call the motion? Go ahead, Council Member Baker. Baker: Yeah, this, uh, this feels, uh, kind of small and inconsequential. There's water and sewer that run right in front. Um, but this is, uh, mixed residential on the place type map. It is not contiguous and, um, you know, if we make a practice of, uh, of

annexing small lots that are satellite lots over and over and over, that, that does add up, uh, over time. I'm kind of wrestling with that question a little bit. I wonder if, I wonder if staff can provide any commentary on the fact that this is a mixed residential on the place type map, that it's not contiguous. Um, what kind of impacts do you think that'll have? Um, what happens if this were approved to the future place type map? Planner Burgess: Um, absolutely. So this site right now, although it would create a satellite for the purpose of the annexation, um, there is water and sewer right across the street, so those houses along that road have it. Um, additionally, the majority of the, uh, mixed residential, uh, place type that you're talking about that this site is in- Um, is really primarily undeveloped right now. And so although this site is a single family home, there is the potential that there will be future development, um, and future annexation that actually fills that area in, um, and does actually add to a mix of housing types and meets the goal of that place type. Baker: All right. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Council Member Rist. Rist: Ms. Burgess, sorry, if we can come back there. Um, I did note in the packet, so I had the same, um, question Councilman Baker had. Um, I know this, this does score revenue positive, which helped me a little bit on this. Um, but also as I understand the packet, so the comp plan does allow for consideration of annexation of a single family residence even though it's, uh, even though it is not contiguous. Can you say more about that in our comp plan? How we, like, what's the particular provisions there? Planner Burgess: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so I believe that's policy 165, um, that addresses that, but it does give sort of a, uh, opportunity for council to consideration- consider situations like

this, um, when it becomes necessary for single family lots to connect to water and sewer, um, to create those satellites. And so policy 165 really gives, uh, council the opportunity to consider those even though they might create a satellite. Rist: I appreciate that. Yeah, I think bringing folks onto water and sewer is always better, so yeah, I think that makes sense. So appreciate that. Thanks for explaining. Caballero: Thank you. Anyone else? Okay. Um, I appreciate those comments, c- colleagues and, um, I think it is tricky. I, I guess this is a question for staff. Sorry. Um, obviously we have water and sewer. They're taking advantage of a thing. I would want city water and sewer too. I think it, it sometimes becomes an equity issue, especially as people's wells, um, age or it becomes more expensive. When we lay water and sewer in that type of circumstance that's in there, what is the outreach we are doing to residents that they are aware? That they're... Planner Burgess: What was that? Caballero: That, that they can't... Like, one side of the street is hooked up and the other side isn't. What are the opportunities for residents to know tho- that, that, those possibilities? Planner Burgess: Um, so I would think that if, if somebody who is wanting to develop their property, that's kind of where it starts. Caballero: Okay. Planner Burgess: Um, whether that's through a pre-submittal meeting, um, signing up or starting to submit applications, um, and realizing that you need annexation for, uh, water and sewer. Uh, I feel like that is where I see the majority of applicants kind of, especially these smaller- Caballero: Yeah Planner Burgess: uh, single family lots. That's, that's when I see- Caballero: Okay ... Planner Burgess: the majority  of applicants getting. Caballero: Thank you. Okay, colleagues, uh, the motion before us is? Hold on.

Um, first motion is to adopt an ordinance annexing 1735, uh, Fletcher's Chapel Road into the City of Durham, and to authorize the city manager to enter into a utility extension agreement with Cecil Gray Madden III. So moved. Second. I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: The motion passes five to one, with Council Member Baker voting no. Caballero: Thank you. Uh, the second motion is to adopt an ordinance amending the unified development ordinance by taking property out of the residential rule Falls Jordan District B Watershed Protection Overlay County Jurisdiction, and establishing the same as residential rule Falls Jordan District B Watershed Protection Overlay City Jurisdiction. Rist: So moved. Mayor Williams: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you. And the last motion mot- uh, is to adopt a consistency statement as required by NCGS Section 160D-605. Rist: So moved. Mayor Williams: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you. Uh, next item in front of us this evening is item number 24, consolidated annexation Experience Reality Glen West. Planner Burgess: Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Tem Caballero, and honest- honorable council members, good evening. I am Peyton Burgess with the Planning and Development Department, and I am happy to be here with you tonight. A request for utility extension agreement, voluntary annexation, and initial zoning

map change has been received from Jeff McSwain with Experience Reality Inc. for seven parcels and a portion of an eighth of land, totaling 25.949 acres and located at 4007, 4009A, 4009B, 4011, 4013, 4015A, 4015B, 4019, 4021, 4023, and a portion of 4026 Glen Road. This annexation petition is not contiguous to the primary corporate limits but is contiguous to an existing satellite. This request would allow the applicant to connect to city water and sewer. While the current residential rural zoning would allow for up to 36 single-family homes, the utility extension agreement only allows for a maximum of eight. This is a direct translational zoning. A direct translational zoning is one in which the existing Durham County zoning is translated to the identical Durham City zoning district upon the annexation of the property into the city limits Since there is no request for a change to the existing zoning attached to this annexation petition, there is not a development plan under consideration, and therefore no proffered commitments. Any future development may proceed according to what the zoning would allow. The properties are currently designated mixed residential neighborhood and established residential on the place type map. The proposed residential rural zoning is generally consistent with the designated place type. If the proposed zoning is approved, there will be no change to the place type designations. Thank you. Staff and the applicant are available for any questions. Caballero: Thank you. You've heard the report from staff. I'm gonna declare this, um, public hearing open. Colleagues, are there any questions for staff before we take any speakers? Okay. I'm gonna go ahead and invite the applicant up for this item. Good evening, Mr. Jewell. How much time do you think you'll need? Jewell: Uh, four or five minutes. If you can put five up, I'll be faster than that. Caballero: Okay. Thank you. Um, Madam Clerk, could you please put five minutes? Thank you. Jewell: Great. Appreciate it. Uh, good evening mayor pro tem, mayor, council members,

um, attorney, and manager. I'm Dan Jewell, reside at 1025 Glory Avenue. I'm here at the request of, uh, Jeff McSwain with Reality Ministries. Uh, we've helped him prepare this application. He's asked me to make a few remarks to clarify some things in the staff report. First, uh, this is by no stretch of the imagination a development. Uh, these are eight existing lots that are already adjacent to city water and sewer. Uh, and we simply want to connect, which is why we made the request for, uh, annexation utility extension. Uh, secondly, clarify, uh, even though the staff report calls this rightly a satellite annexation, it is anything but remote. Uh, the existing neighborhood to the south is served by city water and sewer. Um, and the only reason it is not in the city limits is it was developed years ago before the policy was in place that if you wanted city water or sewer, uh, you must apply for annexation, otherwise it would be within the city limits. And those lots are actually a little bit smaller than the existing lots on this site. Uh, and additionally, there is a neighborhood directly to the north across the land that's controlled by Equa called Glenstone. Uh, that's a denser project, city water and sewer, and in the city limits. Uh, finally, and we think most importantly, these new homes will serve a very special community. Uh, I hope some of you are familiar with the North Street neighborhood, just a few blocks up that way between Geer and Club, uh, and G- Geer and North and Madison. Uh, Jeff and his team with Reality Ministries were able to turn a dozen derelict, empty, old apartment buildings into an intentional community of families with adult children who have, uh, special needs. What they were able to do- Was to allow families to buy those units and have actually a separate unit within them, uh, totally independent, that

their adult kids could live in so they would get not only the support of their families as they aged, but the support of the rest of the neighborhood. Uh, this community is now going on 15 successful years. We helped Jeff design it and get it approved, and it's become a vibrant and very important part of the Durham fabric. But there's more need than can be met over there, uh, and when Jeff, who's now has Experienced Reality, an affiliated organization, came across this property, he saw an opportunity create a similar, although less dense community. Uh, and the homes that will be built in this new neighborhood, they will all have ADUs. Those homes will be offered to, again, residents who have, uh, adult children who have special needs of some kind or another so they can live in the accessory dwellings as part of that community, uh, and be, uh, nurtured as part of that whole neighborhood. Uh, I hope you noted the unanimous recommendation for approval we received from the Planning Commission, and we'll follow in suit. Uh, and we appreciate your time. I'll... We're here to answer any questions that you might have. That's the end of our presentation. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you so much. Those are all the speakers that I have, so I'm gonna go ahead and declare this public hearing closed and back before the council. Council colleagues, do we have any questions or comments? Go ahead, Council Member Baker. Baker: Um, I, I appreciate all the, the commentary, um, a- you know, there, there's of course the, the story behind, uh, annexations and rezonings, and then there's just the cold, hard, uh, law, um, that applies to, to these cases. My... One question to, to staff again. Similar to my last question, um, this is a direct translational,

uh, rezoning, dir- direct translational annex- uh, annexation. I'm sorry. And, um, from a rural residential to rural residential, and it's in the mixed residential neighborhood. So are we saying that rural residential under the UDO is consistent with mixed residential neighborhood place type? Planner Burgess: It can be because it offers a type of housing. Um, so especially when it's combined with other zonings that allow additional housing types, um, it is possible for it to be, uh, consistent. Baker: Okay. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Anyone else have any questions? Go ahead, Council Member Rist. Rist: Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. Um, yeah, this is, um, this case is an easy yes for me. Um, and it's not because Ms. McSwain- Um, is actually a lifelong friend, one of my dearest friends in the world. Um, it's because a- as Mr., um, as, uh, um, Jewell said, this is not your ordinary development, not at all. Um, I actually had the privilege of touring with Ms. McSwain 15, 20 years ago, North Street community, when it was literally, as Mr. Jewell said, dilapidated buildings right near Fullsteam Brewery now. Um, it's a m- marvelous community. It's absolutely an example of God's beloved community on this world with folks with disabilities living with able-bodied families. It's an amazing model. Um, we usually see developments where developers wanna maximize the number of units on the lot, on the, on their parcel. This is not the case here. Ms. McSwain is not trying to maximize profit. She's trying to maximize joy and love in the world. Um, this is an amazing project. I'm so proud to support this. Um, I love the idea of both... And this is not only housing, it's also below market rate housing, with ADUs to support more units. So this is a beautiful project. We don't see stuff like this much. So I just wanna thank the, the, Mr., Mr. Jewell, and the applicant, Mr. McSwain, my good friend, for an amazing project that will make this a more beloved community.

So thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Council colleagues, anyone else? Mayor. Mayor Williams: Every- everything Council Member Rist just said. Thank you. Caballero: Perfect. So with that, I'm gonna go ahead and, uh, move us forward. Uh, my first motion this, or our first motion this evening is to adopt an ordinance annexing Experience Reality Glen West into the city of Durham, and to authorize the city manager to enter into a utility extension agreement with Experience Reality Inc. Mayor Williams: So moved. Kopac: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you. And our second motion is to adopt an ordinance amending the unified development ordinance by taking property out of the residential rule Falls Jordan District B, and Falls Jordan, Falls/Jordan District A watershed protection overlays county jurisdiction, and establishing the same as residential rule Falls/Jordan District B and Falls/Jordan District A watershed protection overlays city's jurisdiction. Mayor Williams: So moved. Kopac: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes u- unanimously. Caballero: Thank you. And our last motion is to adopt a consistency statement as required by NCGS Section 160D-605. Mayor Williams: So moved. Rist: Move to adopt consistency. Caballero: Got a m- a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you. Thank you. Have a good night. Um, next up is item number 25, consolidated annexation 1418 South Miami. Good evening. Planner Lester: Thank you Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Tem Caballero, and honorable council members, good evening. I'm Andy Lester with the Planning and Development Department. It's good to be with you all.

Uh, before I begin, staff would like to state for the record that all Planning Department hearing items have been advertised and noticed in accordance with state and local law, and affidavits of all notices are on file with the department. The request for utility extension agreement, voluntary annexation, and initial, uh, zoning map change has been received from Tim Sivers of Qunity for two parcels of land totaling 3.44 acres and located at 1404 and 1418 South Miami Boulevard. The annexation petition is for a contiguous expansion of the primary corporate s- limits with the intent to connect to city water and sewer. As part of this annexation petition, the applicant is not seeking a change in the, in the underlying zoning districts of Commercial General and Residential Suburban 20. A direct translational zoning is a general zoning map change in which the existing county zoning is translated to the identical city, uh, zoning district upon the annexation of the property into the city limits. Since there is no request for a change to the existing zoning, uh, attached to this annexation petition, there's no... There is not a development plan under consideration, and therefore, no proffered commitments. Any future development may proceed according to what the zoning would allow. The properties are designated, uh, highway commercial on the place-type map. The proposed Commercial General, um, is generally consistent with the designated place type. While the proposed Residential Suburban 20 is not generally consistent with the designated place type, staff does not recommend a change in the place type because the proposed zoning in the LDC will be consistent with the place type. Thank you. Staff and the applicant are available for any questions. Caballero: Thank you. Heard the report from staff. I'm now going to declare this public hearing open. First, colleagues, do we have any, anyone have any questions or, um, for staff? Okay. Um, and I think I just have one speaker.

Yeah, I have one speaker right now, just the applicant, Tim Sivers. Is that right? Here you are. I was like "Where'd he go?" Good evening, Mr. Sivers. How much time do you think you need? Sivers: One minute, two minutes at the top. Caballero: Perfect. Thank you. Madam Clerk, could you just do... Thank you. Sivers: Good evening, council members. Tim Sivers with Qunity, 16 Consultant Place. So yes, the project in front of you is for two parcels. Um, to be clear, this is owned by Admiral Properties, who I'm here representing tonight. That same property owner owns the two parcels between these two that are being annexed. His intent is to sell all four properties, which are currently on the market. Uh, we did hold two neighborhood meetings. Both meetings had one neighbor in attendance. Uh, the first meeting, actually, that neighbor asked to be part of the application. The second meeting, um, that neighbor, uh, was signed up for the wrong meeting, so technically he... that m- that person jumped out of the meeting, so we had no attendees at the second neighborhood meeting. Planning Commission did recommend unanimous approval of this, and I request that you follow their recommendation. I'm available for any questions. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Those are all the speakers that I have signed up for this item. Let me just make sure. Okay. And so at this time I'm gonna close, uh, the public hearing. The item's p- back before council. Anyone have any questions, colleagues? Q- questions or comments? Okay. I'm gonna keep us moving then. So the motion in front of us right now is to adopt an ordinance annexing 1418 South Miami into the City of Durham, and to authorize the city manager to enter into a utility extension agreement with Admiral Properties LLC. Mayor Williams: So moved. Rist: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, could you please open, uh, the vote? Would you please close it? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you. Our second motion is to adopt an ordinance amending the unified development

ordinance by taking property out of the commercial general residential suburban-20 Falls/Jordan Watershed Overlay District B- District-B Overlay County Jurisdiction, and establishing the same as commercial general residential suburban-20 Falls/Jordan Watershed Overlay District B Overlay City Jurisdiction. Mayor Williams: So moved. Rist: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Would you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you, and, uh, last motion is to adopt a consistency statement as required by NC General Statute Section 160D-605. Mayor Williams: So moved. Rist: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, could you please, uh, close the vote? Open the vote, close it. Thank you. Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you. Our last item, if I'm not mistaken, before us this evening is item number 23, consolidated- consult- excuse me, thank you, consolidated annexation enclave at Little Creek. Audience: That's item 26. Caballero: Um... The report was from the draft for, uh, annual action plan from CDBG, HOME, ESG and HOPWA   Hold on. So yeah, sir, sorry, that was under consent, so unless that item got pulled If I'm not mistaken, that item is under consent, so unless it was pulled, we passed that earlier in the evening. So, sir, I'm, I'm not gonna speak to you back and forth. Maybe somebody from staff could... Am I wrong on that, Madam- Wh- which item?

He said- Rist: Company said what? Sorry, which item are you talking about? Caballero: Item number 26, correct? Is that right? Yeah, 26. Yeah. If staff could, um, speak with the resident around that, that would be helpful. Thank you. Okay. Okay. What's going on? Go on. Good evening, Mr. Lester. We're ready for the staff report. Appreciate your patience. Planner Lester: No worries. Thank you. A request for utility extension agreement, voluntary annexation, and a z- an initial zoning map change has been received from Neil Ghosh of Morningstar Law Group for one parcel and a portion of another totaling 47.85 acres and located at 5524 and 5515 George King Road. This annexation petition is contiguous to the primary corporate limits due to a recent annexation. By state law, the request is considered not contiguous because it was at the time of submittal. The applicant proposes to change this designation of one par- of one partial parcel read 232242 totaling 45.95 acres to Planned Development Residential 5.006 to allow up to 230 townhouses, multiplexes, and/or apartments. The applicant is also seeking an initial zoning map change, um, of RS-20 county jurisdiction to RS-20 city jurisdiction. For the other parcel, uh, read 140495. Any use within the RS-20 district would be allowed. The properties are currently designated mixed residential neighborhood, transit opportunity area, and recreation and open space on the place type map. The proposed PDR 5.006 is generally consistent with the mixed residential

neighborhood and recreation and open space place types. And the RS-20, uh, zoning is generally consistent with the designated place type, um, as the district allows residential with limited non-residential uses, and eventual higher density and intensity uses are still desired in the TOA area. Thank you. Staff and the applicant are available for any questions. Caballero: Thank you. Um, having heard the staff report, I'm declaring this public hearing open. Um, before we take speakers, colleagues, does anyone have any questions for staff? Okay. Um, based on my count, and I'm just gonna take a second to count how many speakers I have that are not the applicant I think I have 21 speakers on this item, so, um, I'm gonna allow one minute per speaker. Please do not yell at me. It's not gonna... It's 10:40 PM. With 21 speakers, that's 21 minutes. Um, I understand that y'all are displeased, but as presiding chair, I get to make that decision. Um, Mr. Ghosh, you are the applicant. Thank you. Mr. Ghosh, how much time? And please don't say too many minutes. Ghosh: Less than 21 minutes. Um, I was gonna say maybe- ... 12 minutes. Caballero: Okay. Madam Clerk, could you put 12 minutes? 12 minutes. And the way this works, please do not yell from the chambers. I taught middle- I taught preschool through middle school. Do not yell.

Thank you. Um, if the apl- We have to allow equal time, so if for whatever reason the applicant goes longer, more time gets added to the other side. That's how this works. It has to be fair. And in fact, we are already not following our own rules, because we are only allowed, for our own procedures, it's 15 minutes per side. That is actually what our procedures say, and we adopted those procedures, re-adopted them, in June of 2025. So by our own procedures, by letting everyone speak, we are already forgiving and adding more. So I'm just sharing 'cause I know some of y'all are not, uh... you don't come here as much, and so you don't know what all the rules are. So I'm explaining our procedures. Our procedures allows 15 minutes per side, opponents and proponents. That's our procedures. Go ahead, Mr. Ghosh. Thank you. Ghosh: First of all, thank you, Mr. Lester, for your presentation, and good evening, Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Tem Caballero, and members of the city council. I'm Nil Ghosh with the Morningstar Law Group at 700 West Main Street in Durham. I'm here tonight representing the application for this rezoning and annexation request. Our team includes Tim Sivers with Qunity, who you heard from earlier, and the developers, Ty Armstrong with Abode, and Ted, uh, Heilbron with Kelly on the affordable component. Uh, there is a lot to talk about here, so I'm gonna jump right in rather than repeating what Mr. Lester has already told you. This is a challenging site, but I believe our team has risen to that challenge. When Ty contacted me, he told me his goal was to put a LIHTC deal on this site married with a market rate component. When we looked at how that might work, we had to make some tough decisions, just like you will need to do tonight But I wanna walk you through that process. Uh, here's the site, and just for orientation purposes, the right-hand side of the page is south. At the top of the page where George King Road is, is the east.

You can see the Chapel Hill communities on the bottom of the page, which directionally represents the west. Uh, this is one of the few areas where the homes are within Durham County, but also are within the town of Chapel Hill rather than the city of Durham. And anyway, you can see on this page that there's some streams on this property, and, uh, there is some natural heritage designation on the site. I thought it would be useful to start there. Um, the brown area on this slide represents the natural heritage area, uh, designation on the site. So you can see it's basically all in the southern portion of the site. You can also see that there already are impacts in that area with this existing, uh, gas line right here that's already there, right? And, but what really is this natural heritage area? And if you zoom out, I think you can get a better picture. The natural heritage area that exists on our site is the very periphery of a much larger natural heritage area. In fact, the area to our south all the way out to Highway 54 is all natural heritage area, and that portion south of us is federally managed. In other words, there's a huge chunk of natural heritage area that is already being preserved. On our site, we have two categories: R5, which is a general category as opposed to a top or high priority area; and C4, which signifies limited or lower priority. If it were a high priority, one would imagine the federal government would have taken it for preservation like the area to the south. Now, this image is from an item in your agenda packet, the UEA, or Utility Extension Agreement. This is a document prepared by the city staff to tell us, uh, what we need to do on our dime to bring water and sewer to this site i- if we are annexed. As you can see, the site has been identified for a public lift station.

The ideal location for a lift station, just generally speaking, is at the very bottom of a drainage basin, which happens to be on the site. And this, uh, infrastructure will be built by the developer at a cost of around one point five million dollars. So that's where the lift station is, right in the natural heritage area. And don't forget, we would have to build a road to it for access and extend utilities to and from it. Now, this is a figure from the adopted collector street plan for this area. You can see all the roads have been planned through this parcel, which is a fixed feature of the site that we have to take into consideration for development. The developer will build portions of these roads and offsite improvements. Um, including extensions of utilities at a cost of around two point five million dollars, uh, in public infrastructure. Now, here are those roads again in that roundabout. Um, and again, right through the natural heritage areas. Honestly, I don't really understand this, uh, this transit plan or, um, collector street plan. You kinda could not draw these roads in a worse way or with more impacts. But luckily, there is some flexibility for property owners on how the road goes through the property. The endpoints are more or less fixed. Um, the road on the southern side, uh, or southern boundary actually is not entirely on our property, so we'll not be building it, or I don't think any portion of it actually, which I think is a good thing given its significant impacts to the natural heritage area. And we intend to design the other road, the one that goes through the middle of the property, so as to avoid the first little stream finger right, right here. We wanna turn that road so we miss that. We wanna straighten out the, uh, crossing of the stream and hopefully get all of that road out of the natural heritage area. Um, and significantly, as I mentioned at the beginning, my client was dead

set on finding a way to include a LIHTC component in this project. We found a great partner on the, on the affordable side in Ted Halbron, Kelly Development. And you all might be aware that LIHTC deals have a sc- a, uh, scoring rubric, um, which includes many facets, and among those are proximity to and drive time to amenities like grocery stores or pharmacies, and also access. Our evaluation of the site basically indicates there are only two locations on the parcel which will score adequately to be awarded a tax credit. And you guessed it, both are within the natural heritage area. I said I wanted to walk you through the decision-making process here. In a nutshell, we found that we really cannot avoid impacts to the natural heritage area based purely on the infrastructure requirements. The lift station, the roads, the stream crossing, no matter how this site is developed, the natural heritage area will be impacted. Secondly, we took into consideration the state's own value of this particular natural heritage area. Not all are created equal. Um, these fell into the lower categories. And finally, we ultimately decided that if impacts to the natural heritage area are inevitable, and these areas are not of particular significance, then it makes sense to include the LIHTC component despite it impacting the natural heritage area. The city has already decided to pick infrastructure over natural heritage. We are hoping you'll pick affordable housing over natural heritage as well. To wrap up, I have two more slides. Uh, tonight, there are a few more commitments we would like to add We want to increase our school commitment from 11,000 to 25,000. We also want to commit to handling the 100-year storm. And then these last two are meant to provide specific commitments for greater protections, uh, to the natural heritage area.

We are committing to having a 30-foot natural buffer along our southern property line, and we are prohibi- uh, prohibiting land disturbance south of that gas easement that I pointed out earlier. Uh, these are great commitments on top of the already great commitments the project has, including several of which were negotiated with our Chapel Hill neighbors for buffers, additional plantings, and height limitations. We also already have decreased the allowable impervious from 70% to 60%. We have three times the amount of UDO required tree coverage. And of course, the affordable housing commitment, which requires a minimum of 20% of the units to be affordable. My client is deep into this project, and at this point is therefore in a position where they intend to develop the site. This last slide, I just want to point out the various outcomes here. Tonight, we are asking for your approval of both the annexation and rezoning. This will result in about 230 units, roughly $4 million in public infrastructure, and 20% affordable units. If instead you approve only the annexation, the project would shrink to about 91 single family detached units. The public infrastructure would, would still be there, but we would not be able to do any of the affordable housing. And if neither the annexation nor the rezoning are approved, my client would intend to build this site on well and septic in the county for about 25 estate lots. Again, I recognize this will be a hard decision for you. It was for us. We understand that. We already went through the mental math on this, and obviously we decided to move forward. This is a good project despite the challenges that the property presents, and we hope you see it the same way. Our team is here to answer any questions you may have, and thank you for your time tonight. Caballero: Thank you.

I have been given a list of, um, residents in the order that they would like to speak, so I'm gonna call that list, and then I'm gonna have to cross-reference it to the list that signed up with the clerk, so just to make sure I don't skip anybody. Um, I think what I'm going to do... Oh, and actually, I'm gonna take the online speaker. I think we have one online speaker, Mr. Jonathan Langston. Public Speaker 42: Good. Can you hear me? Caballero: Can you speak up just a little bit? Public Speaker 42: Yes. Can you hear me now? Caballero: Yes, we can. Thank you. Good evening. You have one minute. Public Speaker 42: All right, I'm Jonathan Langston, and my home's located at 5508 George King Road, adjacent to the proposed site. I think the stormwater issue is one of my biggest concerns for roadway and sewer infrastructure, and the legality of the water utility extension agreement. Currently, there are several developments around the area which have been approved, and I don't believe the city has taken into consideration the exorbitant amount of runoff that will occur with this development. The connector road from George King Road to Lancaster connects directly above a creek that crosses George King Road and onward to Leeville Center, and I have all ideas that the City of Durham will have future problems and costs of this road w- with the roadway connector for George King, washing out the location to the creek due to stormwater from surrounding development, um, and most importantly, affecting the sewer pumping station outlined in Exhibit B of the utility extension agreement. Um, another big concern I have is the legality of the drinking water infrastructure outlined in Exhibit A u- of the utility agreement, downward north and the south. My 2022 plat, um, registered with the county memorializes the width of the road, and, (beep) um, my neighbor (beep) to the west of me, their, um, have a conservation easement to the center of George King Road. So- Caballero: Thank you ... Public Speaker 42: I,  um, hope y'all vote no. Caballero: Those are all the online speakers I have. Um, first sign up, this is the order that, uh, folks said

that they wanted to speak in. Um, so I'm gonna call you up, uh, the first five, Melissa Kane, Ruth Ross, Linda Shifflett, Brian Sugg, and Michael Wilder. Public Speaker 44: Good evening. My name is Melissa Kane. I live in the Oaks Villas in Chapel Hill and in Durham County. Thank you for taking my emails. Um, as the president of the HOA, the Oaks Villas Owners Association, um, I felt obligated to, um, explain to you the value of this particular land and why it is vastly inappropriate for development. First of all, Oaks Villas is adjacent to Little Creek. It is adjacent to the US Army Corps of Engineers land, North Carolina Game Lands, and, and 5524 George King Road. The proposed site for Enclave s- is a site that stands out as the northernmost boundary of the Army Corps Watershed Protection Agent area. It is the headwaters of the Jordan Lake Watershed. No other property in Durham County is like this property. It is unique. Is that it? Caballero: Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Public Speaker 44: That is it. Caballero: Yep. Thank you. Ms., uh, Ruth Ross? Public Speaker 43: My name is Ruth Ross on Helmsdale Drive, and I've lived in Durham and Durham County since 1970. I have watched this community grow, change, and prosper over many

decades, and I care deeply about the decisions that shape its future. The question tonight is whether the Enclave project will be the right kind of growth in the right place. Durham adopted clear goals in the 2023 comprehensive plan for complete neighborhoods, transportation access, and environmental stewardship. Enclave may add housing units, but it falls short of these larger responsibilities. I'm especially troubled by what this proposal means for the land itself. Once mature trees are removed, streams disturbed, and large areas covered with pavement and rooftops, those natural protections are lost for generations. When the city approves annexations and rezonings, (beep), I believe those decisions should clearly serve the long-term public good. Caballero: Thank you. And then just real quick, some of the folks who I have in the order that they want weren't, um... I don't... I'm not matching them, so I may a- I may read your name out afterwards, and just make sure that you register with the city clerk, okay? Thank you. Good evening. Ms.- Public Speaker 45: Good- ... Caballero: uh, Shifflett? Public Speaker 45: Yes. Good evening. My name is Linda Shifflett, and I'm here to speak about Enclave's affordable housing model. At first glance, a 20% affordable housing commitment sounds meaningful, and I want to acknowledge that Durham does need more affordable housing. We've heard it a lot tonight. But tonight's question is not whether affordability matters, it's whether this model delivers it in a way that is equitable, reliable, and aligned with your comprehensive plan. Based on the details on the staff report and the planning commission report, it does not. First, the 20% commitment is misleading. The proposal allows a portion of that obligation to be met by conveying a separate three-acre parcel to another developer. That means the affordable housing is not concurrently built, not

guaranteed in timing, and not controlled by this project. It is deferred and has uncertainty. This model creates separation, not inclusion. Market rate units are clustered in one area, while income-restricted units are placed in another. This is not a mixed-income community, it's economic segregation. Durham's policy calls for integration, (beep) where affordability is woven into the fabric of a neighborhood. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you so much. Um, Brian Sugg? Public Speaker 46: Good evening. Good evening. My name is Brian Sugg. I live in Durham County in the community that borders the western boundary of this project. There's a lot happening in the near vicinity of our neighborhood, and I wanted to call it out here tonight to quantify the impact that not only this development, but the other developments are having on our neighborhood. I provided this map to all of you in email yesterday, and I, I bring it here tonight to show that there are 12 projects in total on this one square mile of map that you see here on the screen tonight. Six of these projects have already been built, primarily along Fearrington Road. Five of them are active cases that is listed on page seven of the zoning map report in your packet, and then you have The Enclave. I bring this to your attention, one, because there are 4,800 units that have been planned for this one square mile of development. And at 2.2 people per unit, that's over 10,000 people being squeezed into this small amount of area that is constrained by wetlands to both the east and the west. And this Enclave proposal is only one of two remaining in rezoning and applica- rezoning phase, and you have an opportunity to preserve some of what's left. Thank you. (applause) Caballero: Thank you.

Public Speaker 47: Actually,   good evening. Good evening. Or is it morning? I guess to leave. Uh, so my name's Michael Wilder. Um, and I'm here tonight to oppose the annexation rezoning. I'm gonna deviate from my prepared text to talk about an exchange of emails I've had with, uh, Andy Lester and Aaron C- Cain over the last few months. First of all, in your documents tonight for the annexation petition, in the first paragraph state pretty clearly the state law requires this application to be considered as a non-contiguous because when it was submitted to the City Planning, City County Planning, it was not contiguous. Could not be considered contiguous. So it's not a, it's a non-contiguous annexation. Secondly, I've exchanged email once again with Andy, and here is the, uh, place type map for the properties along George King Road. And you can plainly see, as Andy has confirmed with me, that the acreage set aside for 5524 George King Road, the, uh, Enclave development is not a TOA. (beep). It's not designed as a TOA. Unlike Leigh Village, which is on the east side. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you so much. Um, the next few... And then just very clearly, m- m- Ms. Melissa Kane, Ms. Ruth Ross, and Ms. Linda Shifflett, I don't have you on our registered list with the clerk, so before you leave, just make sure you register. Thank you. The next, uh, few folks I have are Gordon Gardiner, Abby Poms, Craig Poms, and Patrice Capen or Capen. Oh, and then Tyler Bennett.

Okay, Craig Poms signed up too. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Good evening. Public Speaker 48: Yeah, thanks for having us. My name is Gordon Gardiner, and I'm opposed to the approval of the Enclave development and the proposed connection of Lancaster Drive through the development. Our streets lack sidewalks and bike lanes. Pedestrians, including children and elderly residents, are forced to share the road with vehicles, and the road does not meet connector street guidelines. I'd also like to piggyback on the views on the affordable housing. The proposal does not guarantee any affordable housing will ever be built, and if it is, it's not in an inclusionary way. I'm a retired teacher of Durham Public Schools, having served 29 years at the very schools this proposal in my own neighborhood send their children, Githens Middle and Jordan High. Research shows an inclusion of affordable housing significantly narrows the a- academic achievement gap, leading to higher test scores and improved reading and math proficiency. Beyond academics, living in a stable, mixed income communities reduces the toxic stress associated with housing insecurity and neighborhood violence. I urge you to vote no. (applause). Public Speaker 49: Yes. Caballero: Good evening. Public Speaker 49: Thank you. Good evening. Um, uh, unfortunately, my, um, presentation didn't get uploaded, so you have received this. Um, there is... I'm not gonna go through it, but there's a great deal of pictures in there just depicting our neighborhood, just to let you know what it looks like. We have a lot of seniors, probably 90% seniors.

They use assistive walking devices to get to mailboxes. We don't have sidewalks. And we don't have bike lanes. We'd simply have to walk on the road to get everywhere. I also wanted to mention there's a map in your, um, in your, uh, documents that, um, Mr. Ghosh didn't recom- didn't mention one area. There's a, uh, brown area in that map above the natural heritage lands, and that is the n- North Carolina Natural Heritage Program Biodiversity and Wildlife Assessment Area. It's a birding area that was authorized by the, um, the, uh, Audubon Society. So that's also another area to consider when you make this decision. The other thing is this is c- immediately adjacent to hunting grounds (beep). And I want to just stress that these places are gonna have children playing in yards right at hunting grounds. Caballero: Thank you. (applause). Good evening. Are you Craig Poms? Craig Palm- Craig Palms. Public Speaker 50: Yep. Yep. Caballero: Perfect. Good evening. Public Speaker 50: Thank you. Yep. Good evening. Thank you. Craig Poms, I live on Lancaster. Um, appreciate your time tonight. So my comments, and I think this got uploaded to you also, so I'm not gonna go through the whole thing. This relates to the Southwestern Southeast Chapel Hill Collector Street plan. And as you're probably aware, the document was adapted as a policy planning guidance document. Okay? And I don't have time to go through the whole thing, but this current development that what they're proposing, um, as far as connecting to Lancaster as a connector street, um, doesn't comply with the document. The document talks about collector street plans having adequate space for cars and bikes and sidewalks. It talk... The document even goes on, there's some pictures in, in this document talks about trees, and I, you know, the last page of the document

talks about, um, the, why the proposed extension into Lancaster isn't in compliance (beep) with, with that planning and that guidance for you all. So we urge no. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Public Speaker 51: Good evening. Hi. My name is Patrice Capone. The county is already moving forward with the countywide open space plan in spring 2026, supported by the 2023 comprehensive plan, which calls for identifying and permanently protecting lands designated as recreation and open space. This parcel already carries that designation. It connects to Little Creek Trail, lies near conserved land by the North Carolina Botanical Garden, and supports a perennial stream and important habitats like that of pileated woodpeckers. There's several pileated woodpeckers that live in the woods where the proposed enclave will be built. They're legally protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. That means it's illegal to harm, capture, kill them, or disturb their nests without a permit They are a keystone species because they create cavities in mature forests with large dead or decaying trees. Please protect this Jordan Creek watershed. The sor- the southern portion of the site adjacent to the Army Corps land is, uh, designated as natural heritage land. It is named Little Creek Bottom Lands and Slopes. The conservation value was C4 and the rarity value was R5. It scored within both categories of conservation and rarity. Approving rezoning now would be premature. Respectfully ask that you wait until this parcel is reviewed through open space plan process. Caballero: Thank, thank you. What's your name? Tyler. Okay. There we go. Come on. One second. There we go. Okay. Out of control. Good evening. Public Speaker 52: Um, my name is Tyler Bennett, and I'm, would like to speak to the, uh, natural heritage area and the recreational and open space areas on this property.

As Neil pointed out, this is a fairly complex piece of property, and what I show on this map, and, and I'm north is... The top is north. Uh, we have a, the Little Creek waterfowl impoundment below the property. We have a flood zone. We have game lands below the property. And then in the property, we have two creeks that provide all the drainage for a series of seven ponds that are outside the property. And as Neil pointed out, it's very difficult to develop this land because of all these environmental concerns, and I think there's a very easy solution to this. Turn down the request. Thank you. (applause). Caballero: Thank you. Uh, Laura Elgin, Charlie Moneo, and T.C. Morpheus. Thank you. Public Speaker 53: Thank you. Good evening. I'm Laura Elgin, um, and I oppose this action. Uh, there are a number of reasons we oppose it, but specifically I wanted to address my concern about storm water runoff and its implication for most of the 14 homes on the east side of Helmsdale, my street. The proposed 60% impervious surface will significantly increase storm water runoff. Over the past 10 to 15 years, residents of Helmsdale have experienced increasing incidents of flooding and drainage issues. Here are a few comments from many I received, but I've pared it down. Um, my neighbor on 103 reports heavy rains bring water down from Lancaster through my backyard and on down the hill through the backyards of my neighbors at 105 and 107. Even with an elaborate French drain system, after heavy rains, it is still emptying water out onto the curb. Um, w- another, my other neighbor at 202 Helmsdale, there have been two flooding

e- Episodes of the worst being in 2013 due, (beep) uh... Well, anyway, thank you very much for your consideration. Caballero: Thank you. Public Speaker 54: Hello, I'm Charles Mondello. I'm an American Society of Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing, uh, imaging scientist, by the way, and I also happen to live on Helmsdale. Um, you've seen many of these comments before, so I'm gonna just flag your own data for you. If you look at this slide, you will see where we have impacts from flat areas. That is where water flows. It's plain as day. It's visually right in front of you. It's Helene and Chantal. Any addition of impermeable will cause that to expand. You have additionally a bunch of other slides I've given you without enough time to present. I've given you a Duke study from February of this year, which highlights here and in other cases where these kinds of things are a challenge when you have wetlands like we do in this area. So please just read through this material and use this insight as you move on across many, uh, programs, hopefully. I've also given you the USGS and North Carolina State commentary on risk. So I hope it helps you here and elsewhere, but please don't approve a disaster to occur. Thank you. (beep). Caballero: Thank you. Public Speaker 55: Good evening. My name is T.C. Morphis. I'm a partner with the Brewer Law Firm in Chapel Hill, and I'm here on behalf of the Oak Villas Homeowners Association. Uh, I'm gonna condense down my presentation to just make two points. One, I would remind council that the planning commission voted

eight to three against recommending approval of this project, largely due to environmental concerns. Secondly, I would point out that, um, the applicant has promised to expand George King Road to NCDOT standards and to provide water and sewer along much of the George King Road right of way. And I would say with all respect to the council and to, uh, the applicant, they cannot make, um, those improvements. As you heard from me in December in connection to the Lee Village Center project, uh, George King Road exists as a prescriptive easement, which means that they would need to get, uh, easements from private property owners, which I believe was the point Mr. Langston was going to make earlier, in order to be able to do those infrastructure improvements. Should they seek to rely on the Lee Village Center project, which as council is aware, proposes to re- uh, line the George King Road project (beep), I would say that that has been challenged in court and should not be used as a basis for approving this project. Thank you. (applause) Caballero: Thank you. Thank you. Those, that was the order of the folks who wanted, and everybody else who came after had registered, and so thank you for that. And so now I'm gonna keep moving on the list. That's, that was the order that y'all wanted. Um, I have, um, Jennifer Maher, Mimi Kessler, Pablo Friedman, Steven Kahn, and David Baron. Public Speaker 56:   Ready? Caballero: Yes. Good evening. Public Speaker 56: Thanks. Thank- Good, good evening. Jennifer Maher. My address is on record. I'm co-chair of the New Hope Bird Alliance's Conservation Committee. I'm not a neighbor of this property, so I'm speaking as a person concerned about the community of Durham and its future.

This is a very attractive, uh, on, you know, on paper offer of affordable housing, but it needs to be balanced against possible damage of environmental, uh, long-term damage of water that we've just heard tonight we're going to be drinking from Jordan Lake. The natural heritage area is not a small deal. It is a deal that protects birds, which we have found in N- New Hope Audubon, uh, research has found are in a steep decline, and that reflects what's going on with our environment for people. So how affordable is it when your heat bills, uh, cause, uh, it-- the heat cause high bills? How affordable is it when your water is polluted and when this city has to remediate? Um, so for all these reasons, I ask you to think a very difficult decision. We acknowledge that (beep). Um, but please vote no (beep). Public Speaker 11: Hi, I'm Mimi Kessler. I just want to, uh, amplify proximity to hunting, environmental sensitivity, including rare birds, too many people in too small a space, and the planning commission voted eight to three against it. Please vote no. (applause). Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 33: All right. Good evening. An, an apology and two points to my fellow premium tax-paying brothers and sisters. I'm sorry you all have to sit and only get one minute of public comment. The presiding officer can make the rule, and they can change the rule, and elections have consequences. Two points I wanna make. Point number one, I actually wanna thank the applicant for increasing their proffer on education. It's funny how when council members lean into certain things, and the lawyers that represent these applicants listen, and they improve their proffers. This is a substantially better proffer on education, and I wanna

congratulate the applicant on that. Point number two that I wanna make is specifically around emergency first responders, and I made this at the last meeting that you all had. I think it's really important that you all figure out, as council members, the, uh, the number of times that they've gone into ESTAT mode for this part of Durham County, and how is this applicant going to adjust it? Because right now in Durham, there are times when you call 911 and you can't get an ambulance delivered to you. So if they're gonna, uh, if we're gonna give them this, which we don't have to, how are they going to improve (beep) public goods in Durham? Caballero: Thank you. Public Speaker 33: Thank you very much. Public Speaker 58: Steve Cohn, chair of the Open Space Committee of the Durham Open Space and Trails Commission. As the citizen group that advises Durham's governments on all matters connected to open space, we've sent you our open space report card on the Enclave at Little Creek with grades of one D and three Fs. As you've heard, there's a natural heritage in, area involved with direct proximity to NC Game Lands and with a hunting safety buffer around it, and the developer is choosing to build over them. With no commitment to protect the natural heritage area and to create an adequate buffer from the active Game Lands to the south, the developers can do whatever they want in this area, and that is not acceptable. As the planning staff's consistency review shows, this rezoning case fails to meet Policy 79, Policy 81, and Policy 83 on protecting environmentally open spa- sensitive areas. It also fails to meet Policy 80 on protecting the integrity of nearby parklands and nature preserves. We strongly recommend (beep) that the Enclave at Little Creek should not be rezoned (beep). Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 59: Good evening. My name is David Baron. I'm speaking on behalf of the Environmental Affairs, uh,

Board Land Use and Planning Subcommittee, where I serve as chair. The site sits in a very sensitive area within the Jordan Lake Watershed with streams feeding directly into Little Creek. Little Creek is already identified as impaired. Given that, uh, as per other comment, we're concerned about the amount of impervious surface leading to stormwater runoff, sediment, and nutrient loading into an already stressed system. We're also concerned about the lack of attention to a designated natural area- Identified by the Natural Carolina Natural Heritage program on the southern portion of the site. These areas are identified by state experts because they contain high-value habitat and biodiversity. For a little more clarity here, I do believe they send actual people out to these sites to make the determination of what is a natural area and what is not. We should not, uh, diminish that, that categorization there. Uh, when you need to put a lift station and do development in that area, it's kind of a clear indication that you do not have the right del- development for the parcel at hand. So, EAB Land Use and Planning strongly urges council not to allow development of this natural area. At a minimum, we need to have a better understanding of the engineering stormwater management plan and sediment transport analysis. These plans would result in commitments to minimize impervious surfaces (beep). Thank you. Caballero: Thank you (applause). Thank you. Uh, I have Sarah Morgan, Helen Westerman, Paul Casey, Drew Dory, and Elizabeth Faber. Public Speaker 60: Good evening. Caballero: Good evening. Public Speaker 60: My name's Sarah Morgan. I live on, uh, Tweed Place. We support thoughtful development and the need for more housing, but growth must be aligned with safety, and this proposal is not. Durham is committed through its Vision Zero action plan to eliminating traffic deaths and serious injuries. That commitment is grounded in a simple idea. Safe mobility is a right, not a trade-off, and the data shows why this matters. In Durham, there are 32 crashes every day, and a pedestrian is involved in a crash every three days.

At Farrington Road and NC 54 adjacent to this development, there have been more than 40 crashes, and over 40,000 cars move through this corridor daily as of 2024. Now consider what the enclave would do. The enclave would connect to Lancaster, Hebrides, and Dundalk Roads, creating a cut-through route that diverts traffic into residential neighborhoods that were never designed to carry this load. This increases exposure without ensuring safety, infrastructure, exactly what Vision (beep) Zero warns against. Please vote no (beep). (applause). Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 61: Good evening. I am Helen Westerman. I support affordable housing, and I support strong communities. This plan does neither. It separates residents by income, two-story townhouses with garages for some, and a four-story affordable housing building built by a different developer for others. The result is a visually different and likely inferior structure set apart from the rest. That is not community. That is segregation. Affordable housing should provide stability and dignity, not label people as less than in their own neighborhood. There is also no guarantee these units will ever be built. LIHTC funding is highly competitive, and this site does not appear to meet key criteria. Yet the promise of 20% affordable housing is being used to justify a zoning change, while responsibility for these units is handed off to a third party. Once zoning is approved, accountability disappears, both for whether these units are built and the quality of what it is built. I urge you to reject this proposal as it stands. (beep). (applause). Caballero: Thank you. Good evening- Public Speaker 62: Uh,, my name is Paul... sorry? Okay. My name is Paul Casey.

I wanted to highlight quickly why we believe Lancaster is unsafe to serve as a through street for heavy traffic. Lancaster Drive is a residential street defined by private driveways, curb cuts, and high pedestrian activity. Because we do not have individual mailboxes at our homes or residents in... Our residents, including many elderly neighbors, must cross the street daily to access shared mailbox stations. This is a walking neighborhood where families, children, and pet owners are constantly active. Introducing through traffic into this environment creates an immediate and preventable safety hazard. Second, Lancaster Drive functions as a central traffic hub for a great deal of activities in the Oaks neighborhood, including golf course, tennis and pickleball courts, and a pool. These activities generate a flow of vehicles along with pedestrian crossings that are often obscured to drivers unfamiliar with this area. Um, adding high volume through traffic to a street where children are biking and visibility is highly, is already restricted is an unacceptable risk to public safety. You should turn this down. (applause). Public Speaker 63: Good evening. Caballero: Good evening. Public Speaker 63: I'm Elizabeth Faber. I'll speak before Drew Dory. Thank you. Thank you, council members. I live on Nottingham Road in Durham, and you have my photos and pack in your materials, so I'll just speak to my slides. Uh, the, the data shows that this proposal does not advance or even align with Durham's community goals and objectives. I'll speak about transportation first. The closest existing transit stop is 1.3 miles away at the intersection of Highway 54 and Falcon Bridge Road. This is a 28-minute walk on a very busy multi-lane highway without sidewalks or bike lanes to reach a singular bus stop. Uh, you have to cross a very busy Highway 54 without a traffic light or crosswalk, and I would add it, respectfully, that it contradicts today's proclamation of May as Durham's National Bike Month. Additionally, one of Durham's goals for health and wellbeing is for new developments to stay within a quarter mile of the pharmacy.

This proposal does not meet this goal either. The closest pharmacy is two miles away. The closest health clinic is 1.6 miles away, or 35 minutes by foot, by foot (beep). I respectfully ask you to oppose. Thank you (applause). Caballero: Thank you. Good evening. Public Speaker 64: Let me get the right... sorry, let me get the right, uh, PowerPoint here, and I'm gonna zip through it. Part two. Um, there we go. There you go. Yeah. Thank you. Um, good evening. I'm Andrew Dory. I live at 407 Lancaster Road in, uh, Durham County. I wanna talk a- again about how this aligns with the, um, objectives. Uh, let's see. There we go. The, uh, 2025, uh, CGO from Durham, how does it, uh, uh, uh, align with daily needs? So we should be a walking community, and this graph shows that, uh, uh, 48, 40... or being within a mile of a grocery store is the goal. Our closest grocery store from this property is two miles, 45 minutes by foot. Similarly for banking, uh, they recommend a quarter mile from a bank, and basically the closest bank is 2.4 miles away. So it's not a walkable s- uh, community. In fact, there's a 1.2-mile walk to the closest, uh, uh, elementary school. And as you guys know from family responsibility zones, in 2025, walk zones that extend up to one and a half miles where school bus transportation is not offered. That, uh, brow- uh, tha- that's the, uh, Creekside Elementary School. There's the enclave. This is the road that people will have to walk down. No sidewalks, no lights, and poor visibility for dusk. We recommend a no vote (applause). Caballero: Thank you. Um, those are all the speakers that I have signed up this evening.

Has anyone... Oh, you have? Okay, I apologize. Go ahead. Good evening. Public Speaker 65: Good evening. Sorry, I, I thought I signed up properly, um- Caballero: It's okay. When you're done speaking- I, I will ... um, just make sure to register with the clerk. Thank you so much. Public Speaker 65: Okay. Thank you. Uh, my name is Chris Bass, and I am the owner of an ecological engineering company. Uh, I spend all day every day trying to protect streams and build projects to restore them, protect wetlands, I build stormwater projects, and I work on flooding resilience for communities. And both of those, that is the reason I'm here to oppose this development. It is located right downstream of the confluence of two of the very most flood-prone streams in the entire Triangle, uh, Booker Creek and Bolin Creek. That entire corridor was damaged tremendously with hurricane, with hurricanes and Tropical Storm Chantal, and this development is right downstream of that. I also would bring your attention to the natural heritage area. This has been mentioned several times, but the impact of a 50-acre development- Uh, directly adjacent to this, uh, will do almost irreparable damage (beep). I see (beep) this as your opportunity to do something really positive for species and water (applause). Caballero: Thank you. And Mr. Bass, you had registered. I just had you as an online speaker, so you're fine. Thank you so much. Okay, now I think I have gotten everyone who signed up to speak. Um, this is a public hearing. I'm about to declare the public hearing closed, so if you did not speak or you signed up and weren't given your opportunity, this is your chance.

Okay, on that, I'm closing the public hearing and this item is before the council. Uh, colleagues, questions, comments? Go ahead, Council Member Burris. Burris: I have a question for the applicant. Ghosh:   Somebody left their glasses up here. They're not mine. Caballero: Oh, Ghosh: did you- And sorry, uh, Mr. Ghosh, you do have time. Um, but I'm gonna let Council Member Burris ask her question first. Thank you. Caballero: Sorry for the interruption. Burris: Oh, no, you may, uh, you may answer it in your response. So I'll give, let you... I'll provide deference to you to go ahead and respond, then I can ask the question if it hasn't been answered. Ghosh: Sure. Uh, so just a couple things I wanted to respond to, and I, I will ask, uh, Ted Hilebrand to hobble up here in the meantime. There you are. All right. Um, so that he can help respond. Uh, you know, some of the comments that you heard, um, I will say we had extensive communications with the, uh, with representatives of the HOAs in the neighborhood, uh, to our west in, in Chapel Hill. We had come to, uh, uh, add some, um, zoning conditions to our, to our project as a result. We had extensive communications with them. Um, after Planning Commission- Audience: No, you didn't. Mayor Williams: Ladies and gentlemen, what we will not tolerate is that. All right? Let's be respectful. We're gonna make sure that we're respectful mutually. This will not be one of those councils where we go viral on YouTube. Let's be respectful, please. Ghosh: A- after Planning Commission, um, the neighbors did hire, uh, an attorney, TC Morphis, who I've ha- I've had a few conversations with about this project, none of which, um, w- where, where it's indicated that the neighbors were asking for any additional, you know, commitments or things like that to work on. So, you know, just, just to give you an idea of where we were at on all that. Um, with the... Uh, I wanna speak on the, uh, the topic of affordability.

This project has an affordable component. I think some... It, there was some indication here that it's not actually affordable. I'm not really sure what that means. Um, Ted Hilebrand with Kelly Development- Caballero: I'm sorry, Mr. Ghosh. Do we have a timer on Mr. Ghosh right now? No? I- You had 12 minutes initially, correct? Yes. Just to make sure that I'm keeping track of time. Um, sorry. Ghosh: I'm, I'm not trying to be long-winded. Caballero: 'Cause I was stripped down there in time, so- Ghosh: Let me just have Ted come up and, and talk a little bit- Caballero: Okay Ghosh: about the affordable piece. Caballero: Madam Clerk, could you put three minutes on the clock, please? Hilebrand: Thank you, everyone. I'll be brief. Uh, just a sense of the plan that we have to build the affordable house down here. There's been a lot of questions raised about whether it's viable or possible or what timeline. Um, so the market rate developer will be deeding the real estate to us for free. Uh, the infrastructure that's necessary for the affordable housing will be provided for free. The site planning and permitting and some of the grading work for our pad will be done at no cost for us. So we're already ahead of any other affordable project that we would otherwise contemplate in the city because these improvements are being done for us by the developer. From there, the plan is to seek a 4% low-income housing tax credit award, which here in North Carolina is not competitive. So the concerns about, uh, availability of credit, uh, aren't matched with the reality, which is 4% low-income housing tax credit projects are not competitive here in North Carolina. Uh, we further intend, uh, to secure a nonprofit partner and secure real estate tax abatement, which enables us to size up more perm debt. We intend to work with Durham Housing Authority to process a RAD conversion to move folks out of projects like Cornwallis and others, uh, where there are folks living in conditions that no one in this room, uh, has, you know, spent a night in a bed. Um, so these concerns about this neighborhood not being the right neighbor,

we consistently hear concerns from residents who don't wanna see projects next to them, that a project isn't affordable enough, or it's not integrated enough, or it's too hard to develop. And the reality is the alternative is we have residents across the city living in housing that's not livable. So, uh, the path ahead is gonna take a few minutes. RAD conversions take time with HUD. Um, but there is a plan, and we will be proud of the affordable project that gets built out here at its culmination. Thank you. Caballero: Thank you. Council Member- Ghosh: Thank you ... Hilebrand: Price, Caballero: did you... Oh. Oh, Mr. Ghosh. Ghosh: Oh, yes. Yeah. Right. Burris: Um, so that didn't really get to the crux of what I was gonna ask, but thank you for cl- Well, it did provide some insight around the 4% LIHTC. Um, s- my question's around the segregation. Um, so is it-- Can you clarify if the people who will have market rate will be separated from those who are in the affordable units? Like, how does that look? Ghosh: Well, it's an integrated community. I, I mean, to be clear, there is a market rate developer, and there is a separate affordable developer. So are they going to be-- Are the units going to be in the same building? No. Are they gonna be on the same road? Yes. Burris: I- O- Okay, 'cause I'm thinking about when we did the RAD conversion, as was just referenced, right? The idea was that you didn't want- A community of people all with same socioeconomic background, you want to integrate them, but you want to make it look like, you know, everyone has equity acr- around that. So I'm just trying to figure out in 2026... I'll hold that. So will the conditions, um, will the materials or the structure be different for the affordable component than it for the market rate? Hilebrand: Yeah, absolutely. We're building apartments- Burris: Mm-hmm ... Hilebrand: as a part of the affordable housing project. What I'll also tell you is that it is not simple and often not possible to combine the financing for a low-income housing tax credit project with a market-rate development. Two separate capital stacks. So in North Carolina, with almost near certainty, projects are not integrated where you have true market rate unrestricted units, and then LIHTC income and rent restricted units.

It would, it would make this project unfeasible to accomplish it in the way you're describing. I'd also say when we talk about the demographics of the neighborhood, you know, we're saying that we're segregating housing by building affordable housing on a small parcel. We're integrating into the neighborhood as a whole because not many of these folks have an opportunity to live in a neighborhood like this. So I think the lens through which we view mixed income neighborhoods is critical here. If we look at an acre, sure. If we look at five acres, it's a very, very different picture. Burris: Okay. Well, I just... Okay. Um, thank you for that. Thank you for your additional proffers around the, um, school, and also I did see some ADA compliance in there. Um, these are humans and not props. As we think about the people who stay in our, um, housing across the city more so, so I wanna be cognizant of that, in that these are actual human beings. And so when you think about the environment, you wanna ensure that people have a decent quality of life as you, um, as they are transitioning. So I would just wanna, like, lend that to equity. Um, I also have not heard, um, enough addressing of the environmental concerns, but I'm really just stuck on the affordable housing piece. So I'll just yield my comments, so. Caballero: Okay. Thank you. Uh, other council members? Council members? Mayor? Anyone? I have a couple que- oh, go ahead, Council... Wait. Oh, Council Member Kopac, go ahead. Kopac: Yeah. Thank you, Madam, Mayor Pro Tem. So I appreciate everyone who's waited on this case. Uh, want to acknowledge the neighborhood and environmental concerns raised, and appreciate the proffers that have been brought to make this a case worth considering. Um, it's important to acknowledge there are some real trade-offs here that we have to, to wrestle with. Uh, before I get into that, I'm- just wanna start with a couple other questions of some discussions that have been had around additional proffers. Um, has the applicant, uh, considered construction of a, of a greenway?

Ghosh: We have considered construction of the greenway. We actually floated some language to staff on that. We will be building portions of the greenway, but the portions that we know we're gonna build, therefore the ones that we would be able to commit to in a zoning Uh, condition are ones that staff has determined would be required by the code based on other infrastructure that would need to be built. So basically, the portions that go along George King Road right of way and the Lancaster extension, those are the portions that we know we would build. And, uh, I think the staff, uh, analysis was that actually those portions would be required to be built as part of those road networks anyway. Uh, it is, it is Tye's goal to build as much of the Greenway as possible. However, that Greenway, um, not all of it can be accommodated within a right of way. There are portions of it that go through the natural heritage area, so that's something we're, you know, we're not comfortable making a commitment on for those portions because we haven't actually studied it in that much depth to say we know how to do it in a way that's gonna be respectful of those areas. So we have not made that commitment. But we did, we did consider it. I mean, in fact, we did float that language to staff related to the Greenway. Kopac: Are there additional parts of the natural heritage area you can commit to protecting? Ghosh: So we added to some commitments tonight, um, which include a 30-foot wide buffer along our southern property line. Uh, our southern property line is, of course, where the natural heritage area is. So that buffer is in ex- and natural buffer meaning as it is. Um, that, that, uh... I'm sorry, that would... So that's in the natural heritage area. We also made a commitment tonight to prohibit land disturbance south of the existing gas easement, which all of that area south of the existing gas easement is n- also natural heritage area. I think, um, conservatively, we, we think that of the amount of

natural heritage area that's on the property, you know, I think we're, we're probably, uh, preserving around 25% of it, uh, as a result. And, and keep in mind, some of the impacts of the natural heritage area are already required by that road network that's been adopted in the collector sheet plan and for the lift station, which is part of our UEA. Kopac: There was a statement about all street trees native. Uh, can you make a commitment to all trees and plantings? Ghosh: All trees, yes. Yeah, you, you did point that out, and I had forgot to mention that. Yes, our, our current condition, uh, says that all the street trees would be native, and we would remove the word, you know, uh, street, so it'll be all UDA required trees would be native on this property. Kopac: I think I'm gonna pause there for now, but I'd like to come back. Caballero: Thank you. Council members, anybody else? Go ahead, Council Member Rist. Rist: Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. I have a question about the road piece here. So I, I know they're... I don't know whether staff or the applicant, um... So there, there is this concern we heard about the previous development about the right of way acquisition. So, so can you help explain the right of way piece? Because your plan is to, is to, is to complete George King Road, correct? Ghosh: Well, um- No. Our plan... Well, for purposes of this conversation... Oops. This might be the best slide, although this isn't quite. If you go on, uh, GIS today, you'll actually see that George King Road realignment has been dedicated across Lee Village Center. So the way that works, so this is our frontage on George King Road, right? And then as it goes down, I mean, all of this is a gravel road today. But since Lee Village Center was approved, it's not necessarily related to the approval, but the owner here has gone ahead and dedicated the right of way for realigned George King Road.

So it actually goes like this now. So the gravel road exists, but there's a, there's a new right of way that's a realigned George King Road. So what we believe would happen here is that we would improve George King Road along our frontage, and then after it leaves our site, it actually will go through the Lee Village Center property like that. Rist: So you can, you can do that. You've got the sort of on your, on site, you can do your part of it. Ghosh: So the good thing about the portion that's on our site is that we can actually dedicate the right of way that we need on our site. So if we need 60 feet, if we need 30 feet, we can just dedicate it on our site. The idea would be to shift that road onto our site, and then as it leaves the property, it goes through the Lee Village Center where the right of way has already been dedicated. Rist: Okay. Thanks for that. So the... And how about Lancaster Road? So I know there's... I, I drove through the neighborhood today. It's, there's a lot of signs. It's a traffic calming community, right? There's, there's, I think, speed bumps or speed humps or whatever. So, so I know there's concern about Lancaster being sort of like a, sort of like a pass-through, right? So can you talk more about the, the, how you plan to realign Lancaster, and is that partly sort of a traffic calming piece, or what's the, what's the intent behind that sort of realigning Lancaster? Ghosh: Oh, so, well, our intent behind the realignment of Lancaster, which is in this deck. Where did I put that? Rist: And I should say, by the way- Ghosh: That ... Rist: yeah. So if I can say also, by the way, um, I did talk to some of Ch- Chapel Hill town council members today who had also heard from constituents on their side. So there is concern about these wider streets in the, in the development around the country club that are fairly calm, that people walk in the street, right? So can you say more also what the street network would look like on the, on the- Well- ... enclave side? Will there be sidewalks? What's, what's the, what is the- Ghosh: There will be 10-foot wide sidewalks on both sides of this road. It's part of the Greenway system that I was referring to earlier.

Um, this road... So our intent in realigning it was to avoid, as much as we can, impacts to this stream, and i- in particular, this little finger that comes out of the stream, and also to try to avoid any further impact in the natural heritage area. So we're trying to, uh- Align this road through our properties. So the endpoints are fixed, right? So we have to connect to Lancaster here, and we're supposed to exit the property somewhere here. We're trying to align this road in a way that crosses this stream, uh, i- in, um, perpendicular, which is the requirement anyway from, from a permitting standpoint, um, and which a- avoids this, uh, this finger and as much as we can impacts to the natural heritage area. I wanna be real clear, this is conceptual. Um, but this I think illustrates... This is not by any means an engineered ro- I, I drew this. So this is by no means an engineered road design, but the idea is to avoid those, those components of the site. Um, the, what the road will look like is dictated by the city's, um, street design standards, right? So there will be 10-foot wide sidewalks on both sides of this road. That's just what the standard is. Rist: And how wide will the streets be? What are the lane widths? Ghosh: I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask Tim, who probably knows more about the specific, uh, road design standards than, than I do. Sivers: Uh, typic- Tim Sivers with Qunity. Um, those are typically, uh, the right of way is about 72-foot minimum, um, with those 10-foot lanes or 10-foot sidewalks on both sides. The lanes themselves are about 12 foot wide. Rist: 12-foot lanes? Yes. And how does that compare to what's currently on the, Lancaster on the, on the other side? Those are pretty wide- Uh, within the Chapel Hill area? Yeah. Sivers: Um, there's, uh, I believe Chapel Hill doesn't have any of the sidewalks in that area. In this area. But I, I believe that road, I'm guessing, is probably three lanes wide. This is wider. Um, but that's an estimate.

I have driven down it myself, so I've driven those same speed bumps that you're discussing. So I'm guessing that's about maybe 36 to 40 foot wide. So you're, so you're guessing the street will actually be, like, narrower on the, uh, within enclave? Yeah, potentially a little bit. Can- And if staff is available, they may be able to identify the ex- exact- Exactly ... widths of the collector requirements. But I believe, I believe it's two lanes at 12 foot. Okay. Rist: Yeah, if staff could, could comment on that, I'd appreciate that. AD Thomas: Earlene Thomas, Planning and Development. So, yes, the standard would be two 12-foot wide lanes with turn lanes at, you know, major intersections, um, as needed. Um, probably the Chapel Hill side was constructed with three lane, as a three-lane cross-section, um, which would be, um, typical, but we usually only require that center turn lane at, you know, a- an intersecting street when it's needed necessary. Rist: So then, so a driver driving from, like, on the current Lancaster, the road would be, would kind of narrow going into enclave, right? AD Thomas: It would. Rist: Based on our, our Durham city- AD Thomas: Yes ... Rist: cross-section guidelines. AD Thomas: It would narrow or neck down- Rist: Okay. Okay AD Thomas: As you come into this development Rist: Okay. Thank you. AD Thomas: Mm-hmm. Rist: That's all my questions that I ask, and I'll save my comments for later. Caballero: Thank you. Anyone else have any comments or questions? Okay. I have a question for staff. I don't have a question for the applicant. And it might actually be a question for Director Young 'cause... Sorry. Thanks for having me down. Uh, good evening.

Um, can you remind me with the NC Heritage, um, designation, um, there was something that happened at JCCPC where we were trying... It's not regulatory, meaning it's not d- it's not rules. It's, it's a program, but it's, uh, pretty, like, if it was regulatory, we'd have to follow it, right? And a few months ago, I feel like we had some information presented to us because planning staff was interested in making it maybe a little bit more than what it is now. Can you just remind me kind of what the state's response was on that? Director Young: Sure. This was actually, I think, a maybe a couple of years ago now. Staff had looked at i- increasing some of our environmental regulations in the Unified Development Ordinance, and one of the things we explored was whether we could use, we could require that natural heritage areas be protected. And we met with the state. I, I believe s- the state sent representatives to that Joint City County Planning Committee meeting, um, and the word that we got from the state was that their program was never intended to be regulatory, and they did not want us to turn it into a regulatory program, so we backed off on those changes. Caballero: Thank you. That was my question. Director Young: Mm-hmm. Mayor Williams: Um- Caballero: Mayor Williams. Mayor Williams: Yeah. Just, uh, could you, just for the sake of clarification, I was listening to some of the comments, and, uh, just once again, uh, talk about the financing structure for why the, the, uh, affordability, the affordable housing units are separate and, um- So- ... can you talk about materials, you know, what- Oh what i- what differentiates that? Ghosh: While Ted is coming up, let me just also point out, just, just to be clear,

the first development agreement that the city entered into was for, um, affordable housing project that was in conjunction with the, with the market rate, uh, project, actually off, right in this area off Crescent, Windell, um, with the same kinda setup where the affordable units were, uh, not included in an integrated building with market rate units. Instead, what it was was very similar to this. It was a, um- It was a standalone LIHTC affordable housing deal with a market rate component in the same vicinity. That's what it was, and the city approved a development agreement for that. They actually changed the code to allow a development agreement for that, approved a development agreement for that, and gap-financed that. This project is, is different in a, in a few important ways. Doesn't need a developer agreement, doesn't need any city subsidy. Other than that, same thing. Ted? Hilebrand: Affordable housing deals are financed with tax credits that get sold to banks, and the compliance requirements that run with that last for 30 years. So these projects are structured as long-term holds by the developers. So anything I build in Durham, I'm gonna own for 30 years at a minimum. The market rate development model is different. Folks buy a site, rezone it, raise capital, build a project, stabilize it, and then it gets sold. And so you've got a capital sector that has to sit in place for 30 years with one that is not going to, that has to generate returns to warrant the investment. And so in North Carolina, with the rare exception of, I think, Charlotte Housing Authority did a true mixed income deal where they wrote the equity check for the market rate units in downtown Charlotte. That one exception, what you see are standalone LIHTC projects built on parcels that are specific to the LIHTC itself. And, and that's been the case in Durham. When we think about the projects that the city's gap-funded over the years, it is standalone affordable housing projects.

The opportunity to build them in what I would define as in higher income neighborhood is unique. A lot of the affordable housing that gets built in Durham gets built in qualified census tracts in lower income parts of the city. So to hear that this project is viewed as not sufficiently mixed income, uh, I struggle to understand a little bit. And then on the, the mixing of units, we don't ask the affordable housing community to build mixed income projects themselves, right? They build 100% affordable, they come for gap funding, those get built. But we're asking the market rate community to do something the affordable housing community themselves can't do. And to me, there's a disconnect there. Mayor Williams: Thank you. I, um, I just wanted to hear that again. Um, I was fortunate enough to get selected to, um, be one of the 100 mayors in the US, or no, 100 mayors, period, in the world to, uh, be taken to Madrid last week. And, and I, I walked the city a lot. Uh, the city's over 1,000 years old. Um, and I was just admiring how dense it was. I walked because I could walk. Um, yes, there were still a lot of cars, but the lifestyle was, was, was different, uh, simply because of the density and, and things were accessible. Um- It wasn't always that way. They had to build today to get, to get to that point. Um, and I, I, I always struggle when I think about, you know, the living conditions that we have here in Durham for some people and how we're trying to have a very balanced approach. I think some of the concerns we had tonight, what's, what's really sitting tough with me right now is, you know, the trade-offs that we have

to make in order to even have this case approved, uh, environmentally. But I also think about, you know, I, I think about some of our, uh, some of the conditions in which some of our community members are living in and how the i- the amount of emails that I get, you know, "Mayor, can you please call DHA and have them relocate me somewhere?" And we don't have anywhere for them to go. Um, that, that does bother me. And these are some issues that we deal with in Durham that not a lot of people, uh, have to deal with across the Triangle. Um, and, and so I, I don't wanna discount anything that anyone, you know, brought here tonight. Uh, but these are some of the, these are some of the tough things we have to deal with, you know? Um, could you tell me one, one more, one more part about the, um... Actually, no, I, I'm just, I'm gonna leave my comments there. Uh, just I hear comments about, you know, based on paper, this should be X, Y, Z. We should be this distance from that, this distance from that. Uh, and you know, if it's not that, then we're not go- we don't need to approve it. And, and I, I don't know any other way to get to where we are on paper if we don't densify, you know? And I'm, I don't wanna just put a bunch of, you know, one type of housing up on the backs of someone else, um, and just totally tear the character apart, but we do need to have multiple types of housing. Um, this is minimum 20% affordable, uh, and we're having an affordability crisis right now. Uh, that's compelling to me. Uh, one last question. Could you tell me, uh, what... If this isn't approved tonight, then what's the plan? Ghosh: Yeah. So I had a slide about that, um, as well.

Mayor Williams: Was that the, uh, the two- 230 versus 91- Ghosh: Yeah ... Mayor Williams: versus 25? Ghosh: Ba- yeah. Basically, the annexation and rezoning would allow for the project is, is 230 units, lots of public infrastructure, and as you know, we've committed 20% affordable. If, if the annexation and rezoning are not approved, you know, we're looking at building this site in the county, unincorporated Durham County, on well and septic, um, which ultimately is going to reduce the yield significantly. It'll be- Probably something like 25 lots on well and septic. It wouldn't, the lift station wouldn't be, you know, necessary, obviously, on well and septic. And obviously, affordable housing. I mean, these lots themselves would probably be, just the lot, uh, would probably be, you know, in the half to $1 million range. The homes would be probably $3 to $5 million in that scenario, right? And that's, that's actually a lot closer, uh, you know, when you look at, at some of the houses that are listed in the Oaks, you know, you've got a house listed on Helmsdale right now for 850,000. You've got one listed on, um, I, I can't remember the name, Notting, Notting Hill, but for 2.1 million right now. That's, you know, that, that's the... I think we could get those kind of prices here. Yeah. But that's not what, what we're actually asking for on the annexation rezoning. Mayor Williams: Thank you. Thank you. And I, and I understand that. I, I, I don't shame anyone for the value of their home. I know we need housing. We're gonna, we're gonna need housing at every income level- Sure ... and every type of housing. So I, I don't demonize that. I do have a question for staff. Um, if, if, if it's a, um, if they built by right the 25 lots, um, are they required to still preserve the, uh, environmental, uh, I mean, the, uh, the national herita- heritage area?

Or can, are they- No, they- I mean, is that still required? I guess what I'm trying to see, say is or ask is, if the, if this is not approved and they go with their plan by right, are they required to, uh, still protect the environmental, uh, the national heritage area? Planner Lester: No, they could, they could develop single family lots within- Mayor Williams: On that- Planner Lester: the national heritage area. Mayor Williams: Okay. Planner Lester: If developed by right. Mayor Williams: Okay. Thank you. So when I, when I think about these trade-offs, when I think about, you know, um, what our needs are in Durham, um, I understand that we're, our MSA is Triangle, uh, uh, is Chapel Hill and Durham. But when I do think about, you know, the trade-offs that we have here, the affordability crisis that we have, um, the pain points that we have here are, you know, their, their preferences and then their needs, and that's w- what usually drives my decision-making. So I'll be supporting the case. Caballero: Thank you. Council Member Burris? Burris: And I just wanna clarify. So, like, a couple things to be true, that we do need affordable housing and a variety and mixture of affordable housing. But when you talk about, um, specialized populations and thinking about, you specifically mentioned Cornwallis in your statement. And if you think about the current infrastructure, there's, there are bus stops right outside of that. And looking at this, the closest proximity to a bus stop is 1.3 miles. So if you ha- don't have a car, then you're gonna have to basically, uh, travel that by foot. Thinking about if your children go to school, um, you have a high school, 3.1 miles to Jordan High. So I'm just saying, like, and then 2.6 miles to the nearest grocery store, and that's if you don't have access to a car and transit. So I do agree that we do need a variety and mixture of housing. However, our neighbors should not be an afterthought, and that's my point right there. So I would have... I do think that I appreciate some of your proposals you've offered. However, the environmental, um, effects as well as just, yeah, this affordable housing component and what I've heard thus far does not

compel me to vote for this case. Caballero: I'm raising my own hand here. Sorry. Um, um, it's late. Um, I have a question. I have an understanding that there was conversations back and forth with the HOAs in both Oak, I wanna say VAs but Villa's, sorry, um, and maybe Oaks 3 HOA. Can you share with me where did, what the, um... One... Hold on. I'm trying to find the... Oh, I'm gonna find it. I apologize. It is late. Okay. What does it mean to be in the boot? In, uh- Ghosh: Oh, sure ... Caballero: 46   affordable units in the boot of the 46 acre enclave tract. Like, what does that mean on the site? Ghosh: Yeah. All right. So I'm just using this slide as a proxy. If you look at the parcel, it kind of looks like a boot, and this is the toe, and this is the heel. So the boot- Caballero: Uh-huh ... Ghosh: I mean, generally refers  to this section right here. Um, you know, that's, that's... So at some point, a memorandum of understanding was penned. I will say, I, I don't believe we ever entered into it formally, uh, but one was penned, and it was related to some of the things that the HOA representatives, um, were, their constituents were, were concerned about, uh, and wanted us to work together on the results. So one of them was, um, there's these two roads right here, Dundalk and Heberdes, um, w- that technically development of this site, regardless of what it is, would ha- would be required under the Durham code to connect to these. I talked to planning staff about those connections to, uh, Dundalk and, and,

uh, Heberdes, and planning staff here said those are completely unimportant And they wouldn't mind if, if those, uh, or those streets or a portion of those streets were closed such that we wouldn't have to make a connection. We also spoke with town of Chapel Hill staff about that. They indicated the same thing. They, you know... So this was something we thought we would work on together with the HOAs. Um, another thing- Caballero: And that, and that is still true? Ghosh: Well, my, my understanding is that the neighbors are, have, are pursuing these closures themselves right now. Caballero: Uh, okay. Okay. Ghosh: That's my understanding. Um, another thing that the HOAs wanted to work on was what I will call a circuitous route for the extension of Lancaster through the site, and that was so as not to develop like a speedway through there. Yeah. Which, I mean, frankly, we don't want our residents to be dealing with that either. So, you know, I, I think our motivations there are aligned. However, that road design is, is number one, happens at site plan, not at zoning, and number two, a lot of that is driven by the MPO. So we recognize that that's something that we're gonna have to work on outside of the context of the zoning. And the last one was w- the placement of the affordable housing component. Um, as I mentioned on- Caballero: So w- where does that fall? Ghosh: Yeah, different slide. The b- Caballero: yeah, in that, in that, the next picture, the one you just had, where would that fall? Ghosh: Yeah. Th- I think this one shows these are the locations that, that we evaluated on the site, which score under the current, uh, LIHTC rubric for a 4% deal. And, uh, the, the HOAs preferred this location, which is something that we'd be want... And frankly, I think we probably prefer this location as well. Rist: They pref- preferred, they preferred that one right there on the, the lower part of the screen. Ghosh: I'm sorry? Rist: The, the HOA preferred the, on the lower part of the screen. Ghosh: They, they preferred this one over here by George King Road. Kopac: It's being hidden by your picture. Caballero: Okay. Got it. Ghosh: Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. I, I- Caballero: Okay ... Ghosh: my, yeah, yeah.

Caballero: But that's, I know you all can't determine w- where it, like, that's an open question mark, but was there an awareness from the neighbor's part that that is in the heritage area? Ghosh: Well, they're both in the natural heritage area. Yeah, that is something that we discussed, yes. Caballero: Okay. So that was made aware to those neighbors that where they wanted the affordable housing was actually in the most environmentally sensitive area? Ghosh: Well, out of two locations that are both environmentally sensitive. I mean, it, we're talk- yes. I mean, they were aware of that, but that, I don't- Caballero: Or at least the HOAs, maybe not all the neighbors. Ghosh: I'm sorry? Caballero: I said maybe not all the neighbors, just the HOAs. Ghosh: Ro- the HOA represents what we were speaking with. Or the leadership of the HOAs. Yeah, that's correct. Caballero: Okay. Okay. Thank you. Um, I appreciate that. And then as far as the road co- I mean, we've had to see, obviously, when things come to the TPO, which Council Member Rist and myself are both, uh, the voting members- Rist: Mm-hmm ... Caballero: um, there have been adjustments  on road alignments and things like that. Ghosh: Right. Caballero: So it is not unheard of. It is not, um, um- An issue, uh, at least in my opinion, w- when things have had to move forward, we've been able to do some things, uh, that are necessary around alignment as TPO members. Um, and, um, as... Yeah, that, that's where I'll leave that. Um, does anyone else have any... And colleagues, are folks comfortable with us wrapping up questions and comments in the next couple minutes? Okay, thank you. Mayor Williams: Couple? Caballero: Um, uh, Council Member Kopac, and then Council Member Baker. And then I'm just gonna kinda go down and let folks do their last, any last comments or questions that folks have. We're just gonna start, um, and then kinda come down, if folks are comfortable with that. Kopac: And do we get our time from the first time or just the second time? Caballero: This is now your second time. Kopac: Yeah. I only used, like, 30 seconds the first time. Caballero: Oh, I see. I... Yeah, I mean, as long as you're not going to six minutes in, we're good. Kopac: I mean, at a high level, our community decided in our comp plan

that this is an area where we're gonna see more growth in this corridor. More housing, more commercial, more transit. And the updates to George King Road will bring infrastructure, um, the proximity to Lee Village, will add bike and, and walk mobility along with transit. And I always sympathize with anyone who has concerns about what's being changed where they live, but if we're gonna achieve our goal of poly- of a polycentric city, the development in this area, alongside a TOA with the step-downs nearby, is kind of the goal and the point of the comprehensive plan for this area. It's significant that we're seeing 20% affordable housing, income restricted for people making $60,000 or less a year, with proximity to employment and future transit. And some people who make $60,000 a year or less do have a car, and there will be other ways to access the future, uh, um, mobility options this area is going to bring. And the questions of the benefits and the cost of growth is always a tough one, but I think just considering ourselves a progressive community in Durham, I think... I mean, the Oaks is a beautiful community. The ones nearby it are beautiful, and I think that it's an equitable choice to have this area welcome in new neighbors, just like we ask, uh, and often put the burdens on historically Black and gentrifying neighborhoods to accept more housing. I used to be an advocate for low-income housing tax credits for my profession, and this is not low-quality segregated housing. It's the same housing we're advocating for on 505 West Chapel Hill Street. It's the same that we're supportive of in Bragtown neighborhood. Uh, and so, you know, it's okay for those areas. I think it should be okay for, for, for wealthier areas that are developing as well. Um, the environmental impacts are what give me the biggest concern in this area, and I think this is where the trade-offs come in and, and, you know, kept me up last night. Uh, I don't think I've ever supported a case on planning commission or council that didn't align with Policy 79 around environmentally sensitive areas.

Um, and professionally, I used to bring philanthropic money to help support studies that did wildlife corridor assessments. So this area's already stressed. I get it. Like, the Oaks development put stress on the forest on, on a natural heri- heritage area, you know, and putting more growth in this area will put additional stress. And I wanna be able to go along with the recommendations of TCC, Wildlife Resources Commission, EAB, DOST, for how to impr- improve the proposal. Like, that's what I want. But ultimately, we can't dictate that the development is done in a certain way, and so we also have to understand the practicalities of what could happen even with, uh, even with a no. And, you know, the Lancaster Street, th- that's in our adopted plans. That's gonna happen anyways. Like, you know, you're gonna see some development happen in this, in the natural heritage area, uh, regardless. Um, it does give me some comfort to know this is at the periphery, that it does not rate highly for biodiverse, uh, um, uh, qualities. It does not disrupt, uh, the area wildlife corridors. We do get more trees. But I want all the things for environmental protection, and so that's why I'm struggling here. But I'm struggling, too, if we adopt maximalist positions here, that we have to be really clear-eyed about the trade-offs we're accepting, including a loss of significant affordable housing and housing overall, which while it does have a harm, uh, for, you know, the species that may have been identified, there's also the endangerment of our people, of our residents. So we talk a lot about species, but we also have to think about our people and those who are most endangered of being displaced, and that's where a development like this can be most beneficial, uh, for neighbors, uh, who are in need of that housing. So, um, this is a tough one to weigh. Uh, I think there's definite pros that align with our comp plan. There's definitely drawbacks on the environmental side, uh, and this is one that I'm gonna continue to weigh. So thank you. Caballero: Council Member Baker.

Baker: I appreciate those comments, uh, Council Member Kopac. I appreciate the, uh, deliberation of my colleagues, uh, up here. Um, you know, since... My colleagues here h- hear me say this a lot, but since 2017, uh, we've sprawled by half the area of Manhattan. Um, the vast majority of approved cases in that time period don't have anywhere near the quality of commitments that this case, um, presents to us today, um, that get us closer to the comprehensive plan. I, I think that, that each one of these commitments, it's not just about giving us something or giving, uh, that, giving us, um, something else, but moving us toward the comprehensive plan, the community vision, the goals, the policies that were laid out by the community. Uh, I voted for Lee Village, uh, right next door. We had a lot of people show up, um, speak against it. Uh, and I felt that that case crossed the threshold, th- threshold. It was, uh, a departure for me because I'm so used to voting against cases, uh, that are large scale and on, um, large forested, uh, properties. Um, but to me, it had the right combination of the things that I am consistent on, um, which is about walkability. And walkability, uh, you know, M- Mayor Williams, uh, you talked about Madrid, density, diversity, and design. That's what, that's what places like Madrid, um, and other much, uh, very walkable cities have. That is the... There's the, the ingredients of walkability. And so this case provides public goods. Um, and to me, we need cases that provide public goods that also, uh, have the combination of, uh, walkability, because walkability is sustainability, is equity.

Um, and I think that those are all critical elements. Um, so a- for me, until we adopt the LDC, which builds much more walkable urban design into the fabric and into our standards, uh, we really have no gu- guarantee of, uh, walkability unless those are spelled out explicitly. Um, to me, we, we need a, a, a paradigm shift in the way that we do things in Durham. Only 4% of our residents can, can walk anywhere. Um, there are decent elements in this case, um, that I, I had to sit back and, and listen to, uh, to the presentation and think a lot about what, uh, my colleagues were saying up here. But for me, I'm not gonna budge from my position. Um, I'm consistent. I'll remain consistent on what I believe is, is the dramatic change that is, that is needed in, in, uh, the way that we plan and build our city. Um, you know, as far as, uh, approving an application, and it becomes, uh, what the presentation shows versus if you don't approve the application, and we'll build under the, uh, un- annexed land in the county and the very low density, um, that- that's not how I review these cases. I- I really look at what they are truly proposing. And for this one, we-- There, there's a lot of good in here, but it, for me, it hasn't quite persuaded me, and it hasn't crossed that threshold. Thank you. Burris: I'll be brief with my final word. Um, so as a new elected official, I've learned over the past, like, four months that Um, sometimes when you don't have someone's lived experience, you may not wanna make comments about what someone has endured. And so I think about that in terms of, like, for some of our c- people in our community who I've always advocated for in terms of how they're treated in community. So I'll just leave with that.

Um, we are currently in a drought, as we all know right now, and it's a result of growth. Like, we have, um, realized that, you know, trees have a purpose. Um, we have think our environment set up for a reason, and so I really just wanna ensure that we are not setting ourselves up for future harm and thinking about proximity to a major water source, um, and just about how... And then also the 100-year storm. Like, if you think about it right now for the drought, I was talking to my dad the other day, he's like, "We're gonna need a hurricane to get out of this drought pretty soon." And if you're in North Car- North Carolina, you understand how that works. So, um, again, I, I've already stated my position on that, but I just wanna make sure that we are giving grace to each other and just, yeah, and honoring each other's lived experience, and sometimes knowing that it's (beep) listen before you speak about other people that you don't relate to. Caballero: Thank you. Um, Council Member Rist and then Mayor Williams. Rist: Thanks, Mayor Pro Tem. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm with the mayor on this. I think, you know, we've seen the data, right? We're growing rapidly. We've n- the MTP shows we're gonna grow, or the, the, um, our transportation plan shows we're gonna grow by 50% in the next 30 years, right? 90% jobs. Um, the data shows Dur- in Durham County, median housing prices have gone up 58% since 2019. Prices are going up. People need places to live affordably. Um, I think our housing gap estimated by the city staff is, like, 25,000 rental units we need for families, um, that qualify by income, so we need housing. Um, I think I also wanna zoom out. You know, we get so, we get so focused on individual cases, right? But the truth is, like, you know, it's... And, and we gotta, we gotta, we gotta judge it based on the comprehensive case. But I've been around long enough. I'm the, I'm the, the old guy on the council, and I've been around long enough to know that back in the '70s when the Oaks was built, '70s or '80s, people in Glen- Lennox were all upset about that, right? They didn't like the fact that there was tearing down trees, like, in their neighborhood, right? So as Chapel Hill has moved west, you know, the Oaks was built, the first phase was built, and then there was Meadowmont, right? Meadowmonster. Um, and the folks in the Oaks were mad about Meadowmont 'cause it was taking down trees, right?

So we're growing. Ideally, we grow within our urban growth boundaries, so we preserve open space that we need, but who's to say who gets to pull up the ladder and say, "We gotta stop here," right? I don't think that's fair. We've got a comprehensive plan, as Ms.- as Council Member Kopack referenced, that looks for this to be a mixed residential neighborhood near a transit opportunity area. I see actually abundance here. I do see... We talked about this before. I see a 20% affordable housing. That's, you know, we talk about the need of affordable housing. I think our plan requires, Director Young, what does the plan envision? Maybe 15% affordable is our goal, right? Um, this is a... And we often proffer with developers to get 6, 7, 8% affordable. This is a developer that's coming to us, that's giving us 20% affordable. That's above the goal we've set From the get-go. We need that affordable housing. We also need partners who are willing to, like, tr- I'm on the housing authority board. We need partners that are willing to allow folks to transfer from existing public housing communities as we're renovating them. So that transfer of assistance you've offered is a key thing we need to be able to transfer folks as we're renovating our key public housing assets. Um, the st- the proffer of stormwater, 100-year storm, that's a key proffer there. That's, we gotta protect our stormwater. Tree coverage is great. It's also worth noting that we are building a community here, right? We don't have all the infrastructure that we need for the future. We're, we're building towards that. Highway 54, we were just, a bunch of us were in a, in a focus group just the other day. It's one of the corridors we're looking at for bus rapid transit, right? That could be dedicated lanes, it could be signal priorities, it could be enhanced stations, but that's a corridor that will have bus rapid transit, uh, in the future. So it's gonna be more accessible by transit. I do have heartburn about the natural heritage area. Um, this is something, as, as Council Member Kopac referred to, again, that's something I, I'm aware of. I am given comfort by the fact that this area is surrounded by this large core lands, which is also natural heritage area. So there are all tra- trade-offs we face (beep). Part of our job here at the council is to evaluate those. On balance, I think this case, to me, passes the threshold. I'll be supporting it. Thank you.

Caballero: Thank you. Mayor Williams? Mayor Williams: Yeah, I'll just, uh, be quick, um, 'cause it got really cold up here. My sinuses are just draining really bad. Um, I, I, you know, I think about why I, why I'm here, why I'm sitting on this council. Um, I, I'm here to be in the aff- in the affirmative. Like, I'm here to do something. I, I, I'm not here... And, and I wanna be very clear, each of us are elected separately. We're up here to be a representative body, and the mixed bag of opinions that you hear up here are what the voters have chosen. So this is what you get, so that means you're gonna get a diverse school of thought. For me, my perspective is my, my, my... I understand some things I can't control, right? I understand I have no idea who's moving here, but when I look at the data, it's a lot of people. And at some point in time, some of you all moved here. Most of you all moved to Chapel Hill or, but you're in the area. We're all in the same MSA. Um, but what I can control is the decisions I make. And in the middle of, you know, this housing situation we have, this housing crisis of affordability, the decision I make, am I gonna make a decision to be okay with 25 units or 230 units or 91 units? Am I gonna be okay with the, the preference of keeping it as is versus building on it? I try to, I try to simplify it down to this in my mind, uh, and I, and I try to do that in the most sensitive way as well, because I know that you all have... You live where you live. The folks that showed up to talk, you live where you live, and you are used to what you see and what you have. And then when there are changes that are coming, that's, that's a big adjustment, you know?

Uh, but I also realize that, you know, we as a community are evolving, you know, and, and that, and that matters. It matters to the people who are looking for somewhere to live, it matters to the people who are already living there. And so, yes, for me, it... I do break it down to those trade-offs of what issues do we have and how do I address those issues and compare it to the preferences that we already have, you know? So, um, you- you hear the diversity of thought up here, and, and that's perfectly fine, and I respect everyone's opinion, uh, and, and, and we fall where we fall on it. And I respect yours as well, and I appreciate everyone coming as... coming here tonight. But I, I... You know, we have too many people that are looking for a home. We have, we have too many people that are, that are... We have too many college students that wanna stay here but have no idea how to get in the market. We have too many folks that are trying to upskill and get out on their own and be independent, and there's just too comp- uh, the market is too competitive. So 20% affordable housing, I think we're, uh, think the trade-offs are, are worth affirming this one. Thank you (beep). Caballero: Thank you. I'm gonna be brief. Um, I really appreciate. These are... We all know that these are hard cases, and you're always, you're always doing trade-offs. Um, I will be supporting this case i- in large part because it does have such a large affordability component, and also because it doesn't involve city subsidy. Um, I understand that disappoints neighbors. I understand it disappoints the folks who have to live there. Um, we're all dealing with change in our communities. Um, and I do wanna say very quickly that a lot of the decisions that y'all lifted up, Vision Zero, the comp plan, a lot of the decisions we've made as a council, I've been one of the yes votes on those decisions. I'm the council member who got us a Vision Zero coordinator. I'm the one who's been on the TPO denying NC DOT money for road widenings.

There's lots of ways to be an environmentalist. It's not just conservation. Um, I appreciate all of the work that staff did, especially in exploring how we can get this NC Heritage Program, how it could actually be more enforceable, more regulatory, and that was, that was the state. Um, at the very beginning of this night, I asked every single one of you to please continue to participate, especially at the state level, and so that is my urging tonight. Uh, we have a motion in front of us Um, motion number one, to adopt an ordinance annexing enclave at Little Creek into the city of Durham, and to authorize the city manager to enter in a utility extension agreement with Ado- Adobe Communities Acquisitions LLC. Mayor Williams: So moved. Caballero: I have a motion. Mayor Williams: So moved. Rist: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: The motion passes four to two, with Council Members Baker and Burris voting no. Caballero: Thank you. Next motion is to adopt an ordinance amending the unified development ordinance by taking property out of residential suburban-20 Falls/Jordan Watershed, Watershed Overlay B county jurisdiction, and establishing the same as planned development residential 5.006 Falls/Jordan Watershed Overlay B jur- city jurisdiction. Could I please get a motion? Mayor Williams: So moved. Rist: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: The motion passes four to two, with Council Member Baker and Burris voting no. Caballero: Motion number three, to adopt an ordinance amending the unified development ordinance by taking property out of residential suburban-20 Falls/Jordan Watershed Overlay B county jurisdiction, uh, and establishing the same as residential suburban-20 Falls/Jordan Watershed Overlay B city jurisdiction. Mayor Williams: So moved. Rist: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second.

Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close the vote? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes four to two, with Council Members Baker and Burris voting no. Caballero: And motion number four is to adopt a consistency statement as required by NCGS Section 160D-605. Mayor Williams: So moved. Rist: Second. Caballero: I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please close it? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Thank you. Caballero: Colleagues, we have one last item that we need to pass, which is our, um, under supplemental in- items. I did not add it to the consent agenda, so it's the revision of- to the 2026 Ci- City Council meeting schedule. Could I please, um, get a motion to approve? Mayor Williams: So moved. Rist: Second. Caballero: Do I have to read that out loud? It's, um- I'm just gonna do it. To approve a revision to the 2026 City Council meeting schedule that reschedules the Thursday, May 7th work session to May, to Monday, May 18th at 1:00 PM. Mayor Williams: So moved. Rist: Second. Caballero: Or I guess to adopt an ordinance rescheduling the May s- 7th... Is it two different ones? Okay, thank you. It's two motions. Okay. Um, let me- Doing the first one. Yeah, we're just voting on the first one. Madam Clerk, could you... You opened it. Could you please close it? Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Caballero: Thank you. And then the last one is to adopt- Adopt an ordinance rescheduling the May 7th, 2026 work session to May 18th, 2026 at 1:00 PM. Mayor Williams: So moved. Rist: Second. Caballero: Could you please open the vote, Madam Clerk? Could you please close the vote? Thank you. Clerk Schreiber: Motion passes unanimously. Mayor Williams: I'll finish the meeting out. You can pass it back to me now. Caballero: Okay. All right. Mayor Williams: Meeting adjourned. All right.