Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

some training on these two topics. And I think it's actually once every four years. So if you've been on the planning commission for a while, you may have gotten an email from our clerk's office reminding you to take the training. If you haven't gotten around to doing that online, you can actually, we'll have you all sign in. But if you make a point of coming to this training session in a couple of weeks, that will qualify you for that required training. So it's happening on Monday, September 28th. from 6 to 8.30. So that last fifth week of the month, so to speak, is great because there aren't any regularly scheduled feedings that week. So other than Monday night football, and I check to make sure it's not the Seahawks. So you don't have to worry about that. I'm not sure about any other teams that you might enjoy, but hopefully the intent is really to bring this information to the city of DuPont so that you don't have to go out and look for it. So hopefully you'll be able to attend. And if you have any questions about that, I'm happy to answer those. Yeah.

So are we starting at 530 or 6?

I thought we were starting at 530, but I see on the agenda it says 6. So I'm going to go with what it says on the agenda. Yeah.

Sure.

Oh.

And also there was apparently our video was muted in the beginning.

Okay. Well, Commissioner Jenner, I'm glad you can hear us.

Yes, I can hear you loud and clear now. Just at the beginning for like the first six minutes, I thought it was my equipment, but it was muted.

okay well i'm glad that you're here and i'm glad you heard the conversation about you so we um can mark you as present then yes ma'am good to go all right well welcome to uh the the planning commission and um uh chair do you want to say anything welcoming uh commissioner jenner

Well, it's nice after the delay of meetings and everything, it's nice to put a face to the name. Welcome to the team. We were concerned with everything, what was going on. So now we're glad to have you on board.

Yes, ma'am, I and I apologize. So last month it's funny you were talking about Monday Night Football. Part of my responsibilities with my job. I do work with the Seahawks every now and again and last month during the meeting I was down at VMAC and unfortunately I couldn't leave it at so. I am looking forward to being part of the team and then doing some good things.

awesome thank you commissioner and and so you did get our email about the agenda where do we have the best contact information for you uh yes ma'am yeah jenner underscore james at hotmail.com okay all right thank you and then just to um totally understand and if you ever need anyone to take your place at that meeting you just let me know but um

yes ma'am will do um and then just moving forward if you do have your it i mean this is a very relaxed environment just um in response to the email you get if you know that you uh if you know ahead of time or you know you're not going to be just respond to miss parks on the email that you will not be available to come to the meeting and then we'll be and then we'll be advised and know ahead of time that you won't be here yes ma'am will do

Okay, so that's all I really wanted to talk about on the short course. I just wanted to check and see if you had any questions and wanted to then again, strong encouragement if you're available at all to come.

And then when will you send out an email confirming the 530 or six o'clock?

I'll talk to the clerk's office tomorrow before they send anything out. And so the final what the final the final date will be as as per the email that you'll get from the clerk's office, but it's, it's published that way on Department of Commerce's website, it's their agenda. And so I'm pretty sure that that that that's accurate. and you'll be putting out public notice that yep that's yes the commission will be present with enough voting members yes it'll be it'll be advertised for all of our commissions as a special meeting of all of our commissions including the city council um so that if a majority of you show up then we're covered from our public notice It is open to the public. We encourage the public to attend because the public is often, those are the people who understand and get confused, understand the least and get confused the most, right? Commissioner Burleson and I had a conversation about that right after I first started. So encourage anybody that you talk to on a regular basis to come and hear what people have to say. It is a good resource, so. That's all I've got on that topic.

Okay. And then we're moving on to the next new business, the Growth Management Act Compliance Detailed Work Plan and Schedule.

Yes. So this is also a continuation of our discussion last month. And this is the more detailed work plan that I promised you. I apologize for it being a little bit later than what I had hoped to, but you will notice if you looked at this schedule, there is a packet deadline identified. which is a week before your meeting. So the hope is that that's our target working with our consultant. So basically what this work plan does is if you recall the work, the overview work plan that we had at last month's meeting looked at sort of everything that we need to work on in 2026 and 2027 for the planning commission. And it identified two primary tasks that are necessary for the city of DuPont to get into compliance with the growth management act. And that included some work on our comprehensive plan related specifically to a law that was passed by the state legislature, I believe it was actually in the January of 25, it could have been 26, called the Housing Accountability Act. And there were a couple of other minor comments from the Puget Sound Regional Council and from the Department of Commerce in a general review that we also needed to deal with in our comprehensive plan. And then there was another item on that generalized work plan related to development regulations. So the requirement that we do a periodic review and update of our comprehensive plan includes a review and periodic update of our development regulations. so you guys did a lot of work over the last couple of years specifically on the comprehensive plan on the old fort lake plan you there were some zoning changes that were made with the adoption of the comp plan but there are a lot of additional changes that need to be made and the reason for that periodic review and update is to make sure that the planning environment in the all of the jurisdictions is staying up to speed with changes in your community but also changes in the law So those two broad items, they were called GMA compliance audit items. One said comp plan and the other said development regulations. So what this more detailed plan is, is specific to those two items because there were a couple of other things. So for example, we've got to update our climate element. We're required to do a specific climate element in our comprehensive plan. That's due in 2029. So those things are listed on there, but were listed on the general overview work plan from last month. This is specific to the activity that we need to complete in order to be able to get into compliance with the Growth Management Act. So the way this is laid out is it's relying just on your monthly meetings. They're essentially October through February. The February meeting is sort of a just in case meeting in case this becomes, we aren't able to get all the way through something or we need an extra date for whatever reason, a topic comes up that requires a little bit more conversation. But the way it's structured is next month we would look at the Housing Accountability Act items that are related specific to changes in the comprehensive plan. And then those comments that you saw in the last month's packet that were comments from PSRC and Department of Commerce specifically on the comp plan. So we were gonna start by looking at the things that we need to do to the comp plan first. Those are minor updates, and that would be at the October 12th meeting. And then we would, in November, sort of review those proposed comprehensive plan, review the proposed, actual proposed amendments, and then get your general concurrence on those. And then to start working our way through the list of requirements that the Housing Accountability Act review that we got from Department of Commerce identified as necessary.

I just have a quick question on the October 12th one. Yeah. I was just looking on my calendar. Maybe you mentioned this. My calendar has it as Columbus Day. Is that going to affect?

That is not a holiday for us, I don't believe. I'll check. I'll check. Make sure. Thanks for catching that. I will confirm that date for you. So the way this, generally the way this is set up, it's like we review the topic at one meeting and then we come back with the actual changes at the following meeting. So we're like introducing the topic and talking about it. We are already working on the actual edits or will be shortly. Some of the edits we're actually getting from Department of Commerce on that. One of the things that they are providing in addition to the memo that says you're out of compliance, they are actually providing like track changes, code amendments for us to address the issues that they specifically have identified. So we're getting some added help which reduces the bill to the consultant team. But that's generally the way we are approaching this. It's like we'll talk about it one meeting, the next meeting we'll show you the actual language. And where it says over here in the, where the anticipated action, It's where we would ask, it says move to recommend on a couple of these items. It's not an official move, right, because the, the process that we've laid out here has us reviewing all of these documents and then having a final substantive review of the entire packet of amendments, including comprehensive plan and development regulation amendments. So we'll be doing one SEPA review on all of these changes. We'll be doing one review. If you recall, we're required to give Department of Commerce and the public and other state agencies 60 days to review all of our proposed changes. We'll just do one of those timeframes. And then you'll hold a final public hearing and then make your formal recommendation to the city council at that public hearing. So I didn't want you to get confused about the move to recommend language, but the idea is that we work our way through this and try to get to the point where it's like, okay, if we're reviewing this one topic, we're going to like review it, see the proposed changes and agree to that. And then not necessarily come back to that topic until we get to the full review at the very end of it. If that makes sense, that seems reasonable. Okay. It is not. Okay. So no holiday on October 12th for us. Okay. Okay. So, um, so how do you, how are you feeling about this schedule? yeah i like the specific laid out with your chart that very clean yes thanks to consultants when they have to do a scope of work this is we will attach this as essentially the scope of work to the to the contract to get them um fully working on this but um yes it's helpful to have it all just so you know what to expect, right? So you can go back and read all that Housing Accountability Act documentation when you feel the urge.

I think it's nice also that you get the material to us early so we can look at it. I really do appreciate that. Yes.

Yeah.

And seeing it's now in the work plan, we should be getting it regularly.

Yes. I did talk with our consultant also about trying to make sure that she or someone from her staff that's working with her on this is available for the meetings for the substantive conversation and she will make herself available. they may be, it may be necessary that they're available on zoom, but they will definitely be here so that they can, I, I, I am, I'm a planner by training and education, but it's been a number of years since I've actually been in the depths of this and there's been a lot of changes. And so I'm really appreciative that they're going to be here to answer the, the technical, the specific technical questions for sure. So. And I think I also provided to you on the backside that the, the, so your process is very specific to you. Um, but you can, the second page there on this agenda item shows you the overall process. So if you guys get done in February, um, with all of the 60 day review, uh, periods and the council's process, we hope that the council would be completed, um, in April. with their review. So that's the target. We still need to talk with Department of Commerce and get them to concur that this is a good and decent schedule. The challenge that we had, I think we talked about this last month, The Housing Accountability Act process in the law requires that once Commerce does their analysis and review and gives the jurisdiction the letter, you're supposed to make those changes in 120 days. That actually would be like November. Currently, we have been discussing with Commerce that for DuPont, it would not make a lot of sense to make the changes that are required just based off the Housing Accountability Act and get that done in 120 days and then have to come back and still do these other changes in order to make sure that we're in compliance with the entirety of the Growth Management Act, not just the Housing Accountability Act pieces. We're still talking with them about that, which is why I presented this work plan to you. They don't actually have a regulatory role necessarily. They have a guidance role, but just a qualifier that this may change based on that conversation with them, but this is what we're advocating for very strongly. It doesn't make sense to make you all would be confused and let alone the public be confused. And it just is not. And one of the reasons for doing a single comprehensive plan, you're only allowed to amend your comprehensive plan once a year. The reason for that is so you can look at everything and it's in a holistic way and not just piecemeal stuff that could have an impact. If you're making changes to the housing section and you aren't looking at your land use maps and codes, then you might miss something and create an inconsistency. So we have advocated strongly with Commerce staff that this schedule is the best for DuPont. It's the cleanest, it's the quickest way for us to gain compliance with the law. And I think it's better for the community in terms of being able to look at everything holistically. This is the plan. We actually didn't have this detail the last time I spoke with Commerce. So that's the next step is to share this with them. And hopefully they'll at least not shake their finger at us. Any other questions on that?

On the schedule specifically or just this whole thing?

Anything, really.

Well, I guess there's two things. One, we talked last time about when your folks get together, specific examples to DuPont. So when I read, you know, transitional supportive housing permitted in zones with residential dwelling units, what exactly that means to us. Mm-hmm. Just a reminder, like that would be helpful.

Mm-hmm.

what i envision that means and what that actually means may not be one and the same thing um and then the other part that would be curious about and we briefly touched on was the uh so what of if we don't do it like we lose funding but what does that actually mean do we actually lose funding what is the actual stick that comes along with this and what does that actually mean to dupont

just so we can inform the city council properly on what their options really are yeah that's all i have and i guess to follow follow that up um if there's anything that if there's any wiggle room in any of these requirements um Because obviously the state went ahead, the legislature went ahead and made blanket rules for Seattle and Ordey. And it may not fit. And I would say DuPont is somewhere between Seattle and Ordey. And some of these regulations may not given the given the territory given the community may not totally fit and if there's a way that we can massage still trying to meet their meet their requirements but i mean i'm going to pick on one right away parking may be a difficult may create if we go with strictly going by the state legislature may present more problems than the legislators intended because i guess to me we ought to then go back to the legislature and say this is your problem fix dupont not dupont has to fix itself because You know, you think that the sun comes up at midnight.

I guess through this process, you know, obviously as we were all shell shocked the last time when this is coming up. in light of that is before these, my question would be is before these recommendations came down, was there, was there, or is there a process to, um, let's word it. to counter to when we're being, or is this literally that we have no say? Is there a process when these recommendations come down for the city to counter it? And if so, who did or who would in that process?

So there's a couple of different answers, I think, to that question. One is when the legislation is being considered by the legislature in the first place during legislative session, there's always an opportunity for individuals to speak to their representative. and their senators and to let them know how they feel about different proposals and to testify at hearings if you really wanna follow that process, there's always that. I can't speak specifically to the specific, like the parking and the specific standards that came down more recently in more recent legislative sessions in terms of whether or not there was a recommendation. I will ensure that we make sure that we're letting you know when there are, when there is flexibility or options available, we'll definitely make sure that we're providing those to you. And I guess the other, the only other way that these kinds of disagreements, I guess, about the implementation of the law gets settled, typically is going to be if somebody, if the city of DuPont takes an action and somebody challenges that to the growth management hearings board. And that is a specific hearings board that's appointed by the governor that is set up specifically to deal with GMA challenges, like where a jurisdiction does something and some entity or person doesn't think that what that city or jurisdiction has done is consistent with the requirements of the Growth Management Act. And it's similar to any kind of a court proceeding, but it's an administrative law proceeding and you know, what happens there is the hearings board takes the law as it's currently written, not as it, you know, and, and there have been changes, there have been changes to the growth management act because of hearings board, um, issues and decisions. So there that is, it's not to say that changes to the law don't ever happen because of hearings board cases. Um, And I don't know, you know, I believe I mentioned last month that the Association of Washington Cities is an association that represents cities to the legislature. They have a strong advocacy, legislative advocacy division amongst a whole bunch of other services that they provide to cities. They have, on their legislative agenda, they have had basically a stop stop changing the Growth Management Act. Just stop. Give us a chance to catch up with what you've done already. And so I know that there are organizations and other cities that are advocating to the legislature to stop. to stop trying to do some of this stuff. I know I talked last time about how different the law is now as I'm coming back and kind of getting more detailed into the planning side of things than what it was when I was a brand new planner in June of 1990, right after it was first adopted. It was a very different beast and much more local control than what it is now currently. To the degree that there's going to be a groundswell of resistance to this, you have to have no more than this parking and you must provide this many lots per unit or units per lot. I don't know if that is happening perhaps. it wouldn't surprise me if it, if it were, because the law itself originally was intended to be again, a guiding document that was locally driven. Um, and it's, it just, the legislature has taken it a step beyond that with, with, you know, the best of intentions, right. We're all trying to figure out how to afford, um, uh, afford this life and, uh, and housing is one of the big issues. And, um, so there, I, I don't fault their intent. their intentions, to put it that way. Just whether or not it's the right way to do it is, is the question, I guess. So I don't know if that answered your question specifically, but...

It did, I guess, you know, I mean, just as we start diving into it, and I know that all of us are anxious to, we've already kind of voiced some of our opinion last month, and just as we move forward, what resources we have, and I guess one more question, because this is pretty harsh, I think, what we're being told to do. I think we can all agree on this board what we are feeling is a little just, yeah. We're very overwhelmed by what we're being told. So our resources and then maybe where does the city council, Because this is going to involve them immensely after we've done the work. So before we dive into this, I guess the, is there, have they discussed it? Are they, I mean, I'm assuming they're aware of it because they know what we are working on. And before we dive in and before we try to do our part, I'm kind of wondering if we need to have a collective understanding of where they stand because I'd hate to do all the work and then have it countered. when we've done all the work. So I'm not sure if it's never been requested before. We've done all our work. We've done the comp plans. We did the old Fort Lake unassisted. We did all that. But moving forward, because of the extreme nature of this and because I know we're going to push the envelope, to the best to our ability on this i guess wondering if we should know if we have their backing to do so yeah if that makes sense

Yeah, that's a fair question. I have not had a specific conversation with the council about this issue. That doesn't mean that we can't bring it to them in some sort of a study session. I can certainly talk to the city administrator and the mayor and see if we can do that. You know, the role of the planning commission is to do the fact finding. um you know you are one of the you are one of the advisory boards and commissions that's specifically identified and and and directed by state law um uh there are the other a lot of the other commissions are more um discretionary they not every city has a tree commission for example but every city that does comprehensive planning has a planning commission So the process is for you all to do your work. It certainly makes a lot of sense to keep the council apprised of your activities and what's going on. And I think in the, I can't speak to this past, but I believe that's happened in the past. um to the degree that this one is um frustrating because it's being directed some of it some of it's being directed by by the state there's a whole lot in these these memos that i gave you that are basically as a result of just needing to do updates so there is a lot of that So to the degree that there are specific changes that are untenable, I guess, I think it would be important for staff to make sure that we're keeping the council apprised of those issues in particular as we are, as you all are going through your work so that when the recommendation from you goes to them, they can, they have a full picture of that.

And before I will say that I do know, as you've mentioned in the past, I have been fully aware that a lot of the council do actually listen to our meetings and do actually go. So they do in the past, they have been incredible in their due diligence to not just waiting until the end they are attentive so i'm assuming as we move forward with this um i guess just making sure they are aware and that if there's any that way there can be that open line of communication if they're hearing anything You know, even individually, if they send an email to you that can come to us, if there's anything that they're questioning as we go through this process, that would probably alleviate the work and then having it not being met with the approval that we were hoping for.

Yeah, I hear you. It's really frustrating to go through all the details and the work and the time and energy that you go through and then potentially have your recommendations not accepted. That is, that is a common, it's not uncommon, but we want to avoid it if we can. And so, you know, the other thing too, is as we go through this process, if you have Like let's say we get through the housing accountability stuff. We've made the changes and there's stuff that you just really like, it's like, this is really not good for DuPont, but you go ahead and you make your recommendation. You can send up, you know, you can in your transmittal to the recommendation, your recommendation to the city council, even if you're proposing something that kind of sticks in your craw, so to speak, even though, and the only reason you're doing it is because the legislature, the law says you have to do that. You can certainly make that known in your recommendation, right? I mean, we can convey that on your behalf if that's something that you want to make sure that you're conveying to them and bringing their attention to it. I have a feeling we'll be able to bring their attention to it. I don't think there will be a lot of mysteries about what some of the challenges are, but you always have that opportunity, I believe, in making your recommendation to the council and communicating how you feel about certain things about that recommendation.

No, you, your second comments were very, I think it's just really important that Karen Hollweg, I don't know how this works with the city council actually speaking with us, but it really would be good to have some communication from them on this because. Karen Hollweg, That that housing act. the impact is not just having a place for people, a place to go. There's that ripple effect of making that service available. And the state doesn't say what else we have to do. And my fear is we come up with some kind of solution recommendation and it's accepted, but then does the legislature tell us that that's not enough? And that's not a part of the city's agenda.

Yeah. So it is important to have communication. it's also important that the communication that happens with the city elected and appointed officials is open to the public which is part of what the open public meetings act will talk to you which you've already learned so to the degree that you have individual conversations with council members perhaps um through the process i you know that might be okay but there are all of these processes are required to be open to the general public, right? So that the public has a right to see what's happening, what the decision-making is that's occurring. And so just take to heart the information that you hear about communicating too much in the informal manners, because we do have a process set up to have that kind of conversation in a formal way.

And that's what I'm talking about, you know, that it's like I'm not talking to somebody on the council because I know them and I just want to spout about this because I know we're not to do that. But just as we go through this process in a formal manner, if there is something that they, that the council has, concerns about that maybe we should be aware of. Can they have a conversation with the committee? Can that be done?

I will ask. I will ask that question. I will ask that question. I think it's I understand, you know, kind of what you're what you're looking for. But and the process as it's set up in the in the different statutes in the state is intended to formalize the progression. Right. Your job is to do the technical detail work. The law says this. We're having our public meetings, our community says this, city council, this is the research that we've done, and here's our best recommendation, right? That's your job, that's your role in the process. Their role is to take that recommendation, to understand it, to consider it, and then to take whatever final action they're going to take. if they don't approve it does it come back to us to fix it or do they they have the ability they have the ability in their formal public hearing process to amend whatever it is that you recommend to them and we don't have yeah okay thank you you don't want it back

yeah yeah so i guess real quick based off this whole conversation as my mind's processing this and we go back to your is this timeline sufficient it seems to me like do we have enough wiggle room in this timeline for like what i anticipate being a whole bunch of questions or are these

Yes, because from here on out, your meetings here will be very productive. You will have information ahead of time. If you get information ahead of time and you have questions ahead of time, you can send it to us so that we can have those answers prepared, but we will have the resources to answer those questions.

And that's legal to do via email, whatever.

You absolutely can always communicate with staff. You shouldn't communicate with your other, with your other.

Do you want me to try to understand right and left limit?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Thank you for that. Um, yes, you can always communicate with staff and we will always answer questions. And, and, um, honestly, if you send us questions ahead of the public meeting, then we're just that much ahead of the game in terms of trying to get the answers that you, that you're looking for. In terms of the schedule, if we have to push it out, then we have to push it out. It is what it will be. Either we push it out or we schedule another couple meetings, but this is our best guess at this point.

Commissioner Chase. I guess the other part, as you were saying, perhaps getting some guidance from the council as to what we're doing and how they would like us to proceed. I think it's important that the citizenry understand what we're doing also, because I would hate to put in four months of work and come to a public hearing and yet it's obviously John's fault, all of it. Thank you, John, for having those shoulders. But I think if we get it out to the public and I'm not just saying, oh, look at the agenda, I think we'd be miles ahead when we come down to the finish line.

Yes.

Well, we could hope, but we also know that after doing the old Fort Lake for a year and a half, we had people coming in in the 11th hour who were wrecking records.

No, I understand that. But if we're regularly telling the council where we are at, there's a better chance for people, there's another chance for people, for the citizens to get the ability to give us input. I mean, there's thousands in the room today.

That's always the challenge is trying to make sure that this is super, it's complicated stuff, right?

And I think we've been, I'm going to use the word false, and that may be incorrect, but about public participation. So any way we can get more public participation. 100%. We ought to. Yep. And I'm not faulting anyone, I'm just saying.

No, no.

I noticed how many people show up to city council meetings too. Yeah.

One of the concerns I have, and this happened to us on the Old Fort Lake and it really caught all of us off guard. Can whatever we decide, if we come up with an idea, can the staff override what we do or what we say? And I ask that specifically because when we zoned the Old Fort Lake area, every one of us unanimously wanted the entertainment area in a specific area and it was the staff that overrode and they wanted it in a different area and so and the school um and so uh that's where we learned that the authority that we thought we had we really didn't have that we were so is that still the same i mean can we be overridden by the staff and if so is it going to be a surprise like it was last time so i can't speak to your previous process

staff is in a technical role and staff's job is to provide you with technical information and to provide you with facts and analyses and information with regard to potential impacts and implications of your recommendations. From my perspective, and I can't, I don't know exactly what you're talking about, so I can't, I'm not speaking to that. But from my perspective, staff does not override anybody. Now, if you as a planning commission make a recommendation that is inconsistent with state law, then I could see where the staff would say this recommendation is inconsistent with state law in this manner. but that is, that's their job, right? That's not them overriding you. And that's not them supplant to me that I don't, I don't know how to, I'm not even sure exactly how to respond, uh, John. Cause I know, I don't know the specifics of the instance that you're talking about, but from my perspective, staff does not override a planning commission recommendation. So I don't know how it ended up where it is. Um, when you make a recommendation and you hold a public hearing, you take testimony, you make final decisions about what the maps look like, what the language is, and that should be your recommendation. And if there was a disconnect somewhere in there, I just can't speak to it because I wasn't here and I haven't looked into that particular topic. Looked into a lot of topics, but not that one. So I would say to you, if you feel that that's happening, then you should ask the question of like, like, I feel like this is happening. What happened here? And that is perfectly within your right to do that.

Commissioner Jenner, it's a little tough when you Zoom because you're on kind of a delay. And so I just wanna make sure and give you an opportunity with, I know this is all information that's kind of been thrown at you as well. Did you have anything you wanted to at this time or wait until we dig into it?

No, I think it's all been eloquently laid out. I am not as familiar with the Housing Accountability Act or the Growth Management Act. I kind of get the gist of it. We'll come better prepared next time. But I think everything's very clear. So thank you for asking. I appreciate it.

Yep, no, none of us know much about this right now. You're not with any, we're just, I just wanted to make sure when you're in Zoom, sometimes it's kind of hard to, your hand can be raised and we miss it. So I just want to make sure that you had the opportunity.

Yes, ma'am. Thank you for the inclusion.

Hey, I think we kind of covered the basis of where we're going. So I will direct how of this list, what do we need to move next to?

So the only other thing then on the agenda really, and it's not necessarily a separate thing, is I had provided you with the Housing Accountability Act letter from Commerce. And I think it was 24 pages. And then we had had the March letter from Commerce that was basically their comments on the draft plan that you had adopted in February. And then I had given you the Puget Sound Regional Council comments from January. So they even commented on an earlier version. And so I committed to giving you the technical memos from our consultants on the development regulation changes. So that's what you have in your packet. That is just sort of an FYI. And this is, again, the guide that we're using right now to come to you with the proposed in the schedule that we've laid out. These are the topics that we'll be covering. These are specific to development regulations. So that was just technical information that I wanted to, I had promised to give you, so I did. So there isn't really anything to do with this at this point, unless you have specific questions about any of this information. But this audit that they did, these memos were based on their review of the law, their review of our codes, And then it just they didn't have any specific recommendations yet. So there's no actual proposed code language. There's just an identification of like, here's this issue and here's the reason why it's an issue. And so this is kind of the list we'll be using to bring changes to you. And a lot of it, quite honestly, is, you know, the bulk of this information in this packet is these various checklists that other state agencies provide us talking about, specifically in this case, about best available science related to critical areas. So that's just, and that's just them saying, this is kind of what we would like you to do. So when we come to you with the proposed language of this information, we'll have, we can, we'll go through each one. It'll be in track changes. based on starting with our existing code as it currently exists, and we'll show you the track changes versions. Most of the work will come from the consultant with the exception of that Housing Accountability Act stuff that we'll be getting from Commerce. In fact, I think I actually just got it on Friday late in the afternoon, got draft materials from Commerce on that stuff. So unless there are specific questions about all of this packet of information, it really was more background than anything.

Commissioner, I can't I wrote a note and I can't find the from the information that you sent. I can't find it in this packet of information.

You can't find your note?

I can find my note, but I can't find where it is. But there was something that said that because of our populations, the population of our city, that we may not be subject to the middle housing bill.

So interestingly enough, I noted that as well. And the reason it's hard to find is because it is a footnote.

Oh, okay.

And it is on, in your packet, it's on page 12 of 79. It's on... I can't tell which page it is. It's at the very bottom. It says DuPont may not be subject to the middle housing bill. DuPont does not meet the minimum population requirement of 25,000 people or more and is not contiguous with UGA of the largest city in Pierce County, which is Tacoma. So I will track that down. See, I've got a question mark there myself. So I will definitely track that down. Cause we spent so much time. That's why, that's why I was, I was shocked when I read that as well. Cause I know you've had the middle housing conversation.

I mean, it was like meetings after another, you know, I do have to tell you, we get stuck. So you think that this timeframe might be, long enough but we do kind of we stay on a topic until we've really worked through it and as you should okay just totally appropriate you know because sometimes i felt like we were pushed to kind of get off of it but we do one question comes up a response is given it just creates more questions yeah before we make a decision But this middle housing thing was just like, what in the world is going on?

Yes, I will track that down as well. One thing that I would like to suggest, and it's up to you, and this is primarily because I'm making this suggestion primarily because the last two council meetings have occurred this way. They actually sat at the table. And so they were sitting around the table. They still use the mics. Um, and there were, because that that's how you let people who are in zoom kind of hear what's going on that facilitates the recording, but it was, um, it's much more of a conversation. And so particularly, um, commissioner Burleson, where you're talking about that, where you're talking about like, like, like really getting down and dirty, it's much more productive if, you're having a conversation and so i would just consider whether or not you're willing to kind of um take that step and meet in that kind of a format you can still do all your you know introductions and all the necessary business but just something to consider and and you should you should have detailed conversations. That's, that's what you guys are here for, um, is to take all of the information, all the technical information that we're piling on you and to ask questions, to get responses to your satisfaction. You aren't always going to like the answer and staff isn't always going to like having to give you the answer that they have to give you. Um, but, um, you should have those conversations. Yeah. Any other questions?

I think we're good for now. Okay. Then at that point, are there any administrative reports that we need to? I don't have anything in particular at this point. Okay. And, uh, did anyone join us other than commissioner Jenner in the nope. Okay. So I'm assuming no public comments. Does the planning commission have any comments at this time? Nope. Okay. Uh, that means said at 19 30, we will adjourn our meeting.

All right. Thank you. Thank you so much. Mr. Jenner, nice to meet you.

You as well. I look forward to meeting everybody in person soon.