Planning and Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

There we go. Turn your ringer off. Okay. Ready? Okay. I call to order of the October 20th, 2025 meeting of the Delray Beach Planning and Zoning Board. Um, Miss M. Miller, would you call a role, please? Price Patton here. Mitch Katz here. Dietra Strong here. Roger Coke here. Jim Chard here. Judy Malikica here.

Gregory Snder here. Uh at this point uh we have an a amendment to the minutes to the agenda, right? Agenda. Of the agenda. Sorry, misspoke. Yeah. Of uh Yes. Our director, department director would like to have a quick word before the uh approval of the minutes. Before approval of the minutes. Okay. Yeah. So you can approve the agenda before approving the minutes. All right. I'll add a a motion to approve the agenda adding at the beginning of the agenda the department director. Do we have a second? Second. Uh all in favor? I.

Any opposed? Okay, that passes at this point then. Anthia.

Hi. Anthia Jinotus, development services director for the record. You're all wondering why I'm here. Uh, I want to actually greet all new and returning members. Thank you for your service. And while we have a full house and hopefully some folks are watching from home, I did want to make uh you aware there's a lot of frequent flyers in the house. So, um, we have had a second targeting of development services customers through an email spam attack. Uh, this had happened once uh before. Um you some of our customers are getting emails that say uh they're from us and in order to remain on the agenda you need to remit some outstanding fee in the several thousands of dollars of amounts. So this is really just a public service announcement for all of you um that uh these emails are impersonating staff. There are typos in them like this isn't the planning and zoning commission. There's mistakes, okay? Uh but if you're not looking carefully or this is the only time you're coming before a board, you may not be quick to realize that it's fraudulent. So please everyone understand that you are not scheduled for a board if there are outstanding fees to be paid. Um if we've been incredibly benevolent and somehow put you on a board with the expectation you're going to pay a fee, it will always occur through your e-services portal. If you get something and it looks the least bit suspicious, reach out to your planner. You all know who your project planners are. Um, and please if you get an email, forward it to us because our IT department wants to see them. Um, but at any rate, just so you know, we're never going to ask you to Venbo money ever. We're not. It's never happening. Um, you know, and, um, honestly, uh, it our legal teams are actively working on this. We're trying to figure it out. If you have been looking, we took off email addresses both for applicants and staff from the agendas. We've taken off phone. There's things we've been adjusting to try to insulate us, but I think with AI, it's just very easy to sweep through an

agenda, find a legitimate contact, and reach out. So, please do not pay any last minute fees before board. Anyone, whether it's this board or historic preservation board or board of adjustment or scrap, just when in doubt, reach out to your planner. Um, and please board whatever you're getting to us. And that's it. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Now, go back to regularly scheduled agenda. Okay. At this point, uh, approval of the minutes. Do we have a motion to approve the or do we have any changes to the minutes? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes for March 17th, April 21st, May 19th, and June 16th, 2025. Okay. Motion. All

a quick quick question. I wasn't here for any of those meetings. I have no idea if they're true or false. Do I still have to vote? Yes. Yes, you should vote. Okay. Yes. Vote no if you want. They're pretty accurate. Okay. Uh, all in favor? I. All opposed? No. So, it's 6 to one. Okay. At this time, uh, we'll swear in anyone who wants to speak to the meeting tonight. Be advised that if you're going to speak, you need to fill out the sheet that I don't think a lot of people didn't fill out. because we need the information.

The signin sheet. The signin sheet. Yes. And at this point then uh Miss Miller will swear people in. Please raise your right hand. By the authority of estimate the notary of the state of Florida to swear affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

All right. Thank you. All right. At this time, are there any comments from the public on any items that are not on the agenda? Okay, seeing none, that's closed. At this time, no presentations. We move on to quasi judicial hearing items. And the first thing I'm going to read the quasi judicial rules. This hearing shall be conducted in accordance with the city of Delray Beach quasi judicial rules. The applicant and the city shall be permitted to present their case. The public shall be allowed to speak for three minutes each or a maximum of six minutes if the person represents an organization or group of people who are present but agree not to speak. The board members, staff, and the applicant may be allowed to cross-examine a witness. The city and the applicant will be allowed to offer rebuttal testimony. The decision to approve or deny an application or appeal may not legally be made upon personal views as to whether a project is a good project or not. Nor may a decision be based on the numbers of citizens who support or oppose a particular project. The law requires that all decisions must be made on the basis of whether the project meets the requirements of law, the comprehensive plan, and the land development regulations. All right. Item 8A is if you could read that into the record, please. Sure. Good evening, board members. Julian Gdanic, senior planner with development services. At this time, I'd like to enter into the record file number 2025-065. And I will turn it over to the

applicant's representative. We'll do exart. Is there any exparte other than the uh one email that I received? Okay, that's it. Okay, Mr. Thron. None. Mr. Drive by same a driveby. I did have a 5second conversation with Mr. De Jesus, but nothing about the project, but just that he was here for the project. So, okay. And I did a driveby. All right. at this time. Miss Baleni, you have the floor. Hi. Thank you. Um, no, but I will. Okay. Thank you.

I'll make sure you have that. Uh, for the record, Christina Valeni, Miss Bachman. Uh, my address is 14 Southeast 4th Street in Bocertton, and it is a pleasure to be here this evening. Um, for item 8A, um, oops, that went a little too far. Um, so the subject site is highlighted in the yellow box on your screen. Uh it's in the northern part of the city between Federal Highway and Dixie Highway. Um just south of Gulfream Boulevard. Um the property is about 3.22 acres in size. It has a future land use of uh general commercial and is zoned automotive commercial. Um we are proposing to redevelop the site with a new automotive dealership for Hyundai and Genesis. Um the building itself will be about 55,000 square ft. Uh so that's about 40% lot coverage. And um we are providing the necessary perimeter buffers. We're also dedicating 10 feet of rightofway along Federal Highway. Um so that's kind of highlighted in the yellow box on your screen. Um just going back um so the property right now is utilized for um vehicle storage related to an automotive use. Uh there was a dealership previously on the site. Um, it's been demolished for I I think a couple years at this point um and does have that vehicle storage. Um, we'll get into it a little bit further in the presentation, but you can see it's pretty much um just cars. There's very little landscaping on the site today. Um, so here we are meeting the perimeter buffer requirements, vehicular use area requirements for uh landscaping. We're

providing foundation plantings. Um that's all the areas in green. Um currently there are also three curb cuts along Federal Highway. Um the more curb cuts you have, the more conflicts you have, especially on a along a corridor like Federal Highway that has a lot of vehicular traffic, higher rates of speed. Um, so we are proposing one curb cut along the south end of the site and then we have a curb cut on Dixie Highway on the back. Uh, and then a second curb kite that a curb cut that will have a gate for emergency access essentially. So, primarily people visiting the dealership will come off Federal Highway. Um, and they will park in these parking spaces that are in the front of the site. Um, to the south of the property is a self-s storage building. Right now, I believe it's a cubemart. And so because of that kind of benign and larger uh mass next door to us, we have um the active areas kind of situated on the south side of the building. So we have um loading zones along the south. Um you have access into kind of the service areas along the south. um just for compatibility it made the most sense given that the self- storage use is right next door. Um we also are providing vehicular circulation around the site. Um this in part is due to fire access to ensure um emergency services can access around the entirety of the building. um you know if they need to get into the garage from the north end, we wanted to ensure they have adequate access. Uh their largest

vehicles can circulate the site. Um so you do see that drive going along uh the entirety around the entirety of the building. Um one point I wanted to mention on this slide is related to the front setback. So, this portion of the city is within um the North Federal Highway corridor. Uh and there's a specific setback requirement for this area. Um you have to have a minimum 5-ft setback but a maximum 15t setback. And so, uh, the expectation is to create more of a pedestrianoriented corridor, which when you have automotive zoning and automotive uses, uh, it kind of contrasts to what you would expect with a pedestrian corridor. Um, so our building is set back um in excess of 15 ft obviously. Um, so there is a waiver requested and that's allowed pursuant to LDR section 4.4.10F3 10F3 um which allows the approving body to determine that a setback greater than 15 ft may be proposed um if it can be demonstrated that the uh or that it's not feasible to comply with the standard. And so to that again just providing for fire access providing for that circulation throughout the site it's it's not feasible to provide a 15t setback. Um so we felt this was a safe compromise, a comfortable compromise. Um we are not proposing any vehicle um inventory within these parking spaces along Federal Highway. These parking spaces are for customers to access. So sometimes you see especially older car dealerships have, you know, a line of inventory right out front, big bright

stickers on the cars. um that's not what's going to be happening in those spaces. Those are for customer use. We do have two display areas. Um one kind of right here by the southern entrance and one at the northern corner of the site. So that will allow for a vehicle in each of those two locations to be displayed. But otherwise, you know, they'll have the showroom internal to the building and inventory stored in the parking garage. Um, so your required findings for the site plan um are contained in LDR section 3.1.1 related to the land use map concurrency, consistency, and compliance with the uh land development regulations. So again, the property is zoned AC. It has the GC land use. Um they are consistent. So we comply with that finding. In terms of concurrency, your staff report goes into detail on each of these items, but it has been determined that there is adequate capacity for water, sewer, solid waste. Um drainage is adequately provided on site. Uh, in terms of traffic, we have the TPS approval from Palm Beach County and schools is not applicable since it's a non-residential use. In terms of consistency with the comprehensive plan, there are a lot of different objectives that support um kind of the legacy automotive use that's been important to the fabric of Delray Beach. Um specifically policy NDC 2.5.1 um speaks to accommodating automotive dealerships and autorelated uses on land with a general commercial land use zoned

automotive commercial and located north of George Bush Boulevard between federal um and Dixie Highways which is exactly where this property is located. So the comprehensive plan really encourages this area to be um developed with automotive uses and the staff report notes that the proposed development maintains consistency and compatibility with the comprehensive plan. Um, in terms of compliance with the LDRs, um, staff has thoroughly reviewed the site plan application on a number of occasions to ensure we are meeting the land development code or land development regulation requirements in terms of floor area ratio, height, all the required buffers, required parking, bicycle parking, um, architectural design standards. All of that um has been fully vetted through staff. Um here again we have kind of our landscape areas highlighted. Um there is a special uh buffer that's required along federal highway. So we are complying with that um particular buffer requirement. Um again you see our vehicular open space areas. So, the the landscape areas between parking stalls. Um, we are complying with all of the perimeter buffer requirements which are not there today. And we're actually providing additional landscaping along Dixie Highway. Um, and that's, you know, this wrong button, sorry. Um, here we go. This row of trees right here, uh, that we are proposing to add to the site. Um and so that area is not counted towards our open space since it is within the right of way but we felt it important to provide um you know

screening from Dixie Highway as well. Um, and you know, twofold. When you think of a lot of the other automotive uses located along uh Dixie Highway, particularly south of Linton, you have similar, you know, green spaces. It's not really uh buffered in any way by trees or landscaping in the back there. Um, and in a lot of instances, loading and unloading activities for those dealerships um occur along Dixie Highway. We wanted to ensure that didn't happen here. Um, we have specific loading and unloading areas that we want, you know, people to use when they're coming in in trucks. It's been fully vetted for that. Um, and we want to ensure that, you know, no matter what angle you're looking at this dealership from, uh, it is an attractive product. And so here we have the elevations. The top one is the elevation that is kind of the primary facade. um facing Federal Highway. You can see a lot of glass, a lot of nice transparency there. Um the south elevation um is kind of where we have more of those active uses, the loading, the unloading, the access to service areas. Um again, that's going to be kind of adjacent to the existing Cube Smart. We have the West Elevation uh facing Dixie Highway on the top of this screen. Again, you don't have the landscaping um in this image, but we'll have foundation plantings as well. Um and then you have the north elevation which um faces some industrial uses. And then kind of towards Federal Highway, there's I think a med spa there currently, but they'll have the glass facade kind of wrapped around um close to them along Federal Highway.

And so here is a rendering of the proposed building. Um, this does not factor in uh the landscaping that will be provided. Um, I wanted to make sure that was clear because it's it's not shown here on purpose. We're intending to um provide an image of what the building itself will look like. Um, so there will be additional landscaping on top of this that is uh reflected in the landscape plans. It's just not on this image. Um so here you can see uh kind of one of the display spots which is um next to this sign where uh one of the nice vehicles will be highlighted. Um you have beautiful glass facade, a mix of materials, a nice contemporary look. Um so we have the required findings for the front setback. I went over the setback in detail, but it's not going to adversely affect the neighborhood, um, significantly diminish any kind of public facility, create an unsafe situation. In fact, we're setting it back to allow for fire circulation, um, and does not grant a special privilege. And then the second waiver relates to an open space reduction. And so, LDR section 4.3.4K 4K specifically allows for a reduction in open space um in the context uh with dealing with dealership properties in the AC zoning district. Um so it allows for an existing site to be um or to increase the percentage of open space but uh provides for a reduction um that may be approved by the approving body. um in no instance shall that percentage be reduced below the existing percentage. Um and the board must find that the reduction does not diminish the

practical application of the requirement um particularly as it relates to the perimeter of the site. So what that means essentially is we need to still comply with the o uh landscape requirements in terms of the perimeter buffers in terms of the foundation plantings the vehicular use areas we need to still ensure we're complying with all of those requirements. But if we do not get to the threshold of the required open space so long as we're providing more than what exists today um this board can approve a waiver. And so that's what we're requesting. Um, here is an aerial of the existing site. The yellow is the only area where there is landscaping, if you can even call it landscaping. Um, and I'll show you why, but there there are no real perimeter buffers. There's there's next to nothing on this site. It's just a a gravel parking area essentially. Um, here you have the west property line. You can see there's no landscaping provided. Um, this landscaping is overgrowth from the property next door. Um, so the gravel is is what's on the property today. Um, adjacent to, you know, landscaping on the neighboring property. Uh, this is the north property line. Same thing where there's overgrowth from the property next door, but no landscaping specifically on this site. And this is the landscaping that is actually provided on this site right now if you can even call it landscaping. Um so in total there's 1% of the site has this as landscaping currently. Um so we are drastically improving the landscaping that's going to be provided on the property. Um you see in the green

all of the perimeter buffer areas that will be planted. Um the blue is the foundation plantings and the vehicular use area plantings. And then again along Dixie Highway, um there's kind of this yellowish green area um that is not counted towards our open space, but we are improving um and beautifying Dixie Highway as well. And here uh you have that landscaping in relation to the building again. Um here we just have some quick calculations. Um math is not my forte but 1,120 uh square feet of the existing site has that uh grass in it which is 1% of the site. Um so 1% of the site is currently landscaped. We're providing over 15,000 square ft bringing it up to 11% of the site. Um so it does result in an increase in open space. I would say a pretty significant increase from what is there today. Um it does not comply with the 25% open space requirement. Uh but positive findings can be made in terms of the reduction under LDR section 4.4.10H4 10 H4 and um you know I've walked through you know the various slides to demonstrate how positive findings can be made in terms of the waiverss and uh the site plan itself. Um and our team is happy to answer any questions you may have this evening and I thank you very much for your time.

Thank you. All right. [Music]

Yes. Good evening again, board members. Julian Gdanic, senior planner. Um, the applicant just gave a very thorough um overview of the project, so I apologize. Some of what I state might be redundant, but I'll try to move through it pretty quickly. Uh, again, this is file number 202565. It's a level three site plan application for the Delray Hyundai Genesis Auto dealership at 2612 to 2650 North Federal Highway. Um, this is the subject property. It's a little over 3 acres. The land use designation is general commercial and the zoning district is automotive commercial. Uh, the proposed use is a full service automotive dealership. Again, just reiterating automotive commercial uh existing zoning district in the GC zoning uh sorry, land use uh category. These are the surrounding properties. For some overall context, it's mostly commercial with some industrial on the west side across the railroad tracks. And then on the other side of the industrial is um single or sorry multif family and then single family. So there is quite a buffer between the closest residential and and the subject property. This is the subject property from the perspective of both streets. The federal highway frontage on the left and the Dixie Highway frontage on the right. You can see it is a largely vacant site. Previously held a um used car dealership for a number of years and for the last few years has been used as automotive inventory storage. So looking at the site plan and just an overall summary of the project, it is a two-story uh dealership with a fourstory uh integrated parking garage. The total gross square footage is approximately 167,000 ft. That's inclusive of the garage square footage. Uh the use includes showrooms and service areas for two distinct brands, both uh Genesis and Hyundai. There's administrative offices and there's vehicle inventory bullpens uh located interior to the garage. In total, there's 325 parking spaces provided.

153 of those are required to be allocated for customer and employee parking. And then that's calculated based off of square footage and uh the amount of service space. and then the remainder uh is eligible for use as uh inventory parking. Just to zoom into a couple areas of the site plan uh for clarification, this has been rotated. So, Federal Highway is on the south part of the screen. Um this is that access drive off of Federal Highway on the south south corner of the property. Um in the front setback area, we have some parking that the applicant clarified is going to be for customer parking. Uh there is a 10-ft rideofaway dedication which is that hashed uh detail and then between the new property line and the parking uh spaces there is a required 10-ft buffer that the applicant is providing. Um there is the entry to both uh showrooms from the front and then there is a access drive to provide vehicle access to the service bays. Looking at the rear again rotated, so Dixie Highways on the top of the screen. Um we have the two access points from Dixie. We have um a drive aisle that circulates the whole property. This provides necessary access for larger vehicles including delivery trucks as well as for fire access. Uh there is a um trash enclosure at the corner that can be very easily uh accessible by a front-loaded uh garbage truck. we actually worked with the applicant to tweak that location to make sure it was very easily um accessed. So, appreciated that. And then the applicant touched on the loading zone, but I just want to reiterate where it is. Um Oops. Go back. Um Oh, sorry, I went one too far. Okay.

So, on the south side of the property, we have these two 20 by uh 30 loading zones. And we worked with the applicant to ensure that they were being configured so that they would be able to accommodate the oversized vehicle delivery trucks that are usually around 60 or so feet. Uh we wanted to make sure that there was a very viable option for delivery that would not require the vehicles to be um you know, parked on Dixie Highway or Federal Highway. um that can be a nuisance and we wanted to avoid that so they've accommodated it with that configuration. Quickly looking at the ground floor plan, Federal Highways to the left of the screen, uh we have the two uh showrooms uh for each brand. Uh the building is sort of bisected by this uh service access drive. We have the sales offices. Uh and then as we move close further to the right, you have the service area. Um looking at the this right here, this is the access from the south. So south is actually to the top of the screen. Um access to the parking garage. Uh and then as we move to the rear, we have some restrooms, bicycle storage, some locker rooms, and then at the very back, we have the automated car wash. Quickly looking at the garage floor plans. Uh the second floor has some additional office area and showroom. And then uh that's where the bullpin parking uh begins. And then the sec uh the third and fourth level of the garage are all for bullpin parking. Uh there's a few spaces that might be noted as reserved for uh um employees just based on the parking counts. Some of the third floor was required to be dedicated. Quickly looking at the uh facets of the landscape plan, there is a perimeter buffer on both sides, actually all three of the sides, both interiors and the Dixie Highway side. And then on the interiors, there's 16ft trees planted 30

on center. There's foundation landscaping at the uh adjacent to the front facade. And then there's that required 10-ft buffer adjacent to federal highway before any vehicular use area or hardscape other than sidewalks. And then as the applicant mentioned in the rear, there is a new shade tree canopy proposed on Dixie Highway that does not currently exist. Looking at some considerations for the site plan. And before I get into these, I want to just clarify something. The applicant mentioned the uh waiver criteria and perfectly fine. They're, you know, it can't hurt to reference those. But both of these forms of relief are actually not subject to the standard waiver criteria because the relief the mechanism for relief is written into the regulation itself. It basically says XYZ is required. However, at the board's discretion that can be granted. So, and it specifies in the regulation what's required to be considered in in order to give that granting. And I'll go into it in a second. So the first request is front setback relief. As the applicant mentioned in the North Federal Highway Overly District, there is a range of a 5- foot minimum to a 15T maximum required. Generally, that is intended to push the building closer to the corridor, create more of a pedestrian oriented design, and sort of push some of the less desirable aspects of commercial development to the rear, such as parking, etc. Um the applicant for the reasons that they stated are proposing uh a 78 foot setback. Um again it's generally required to accommodate the necessary circulation for fire access and larger vehicles to maneuver around the site given how the building's been placed and how the circulation pattern has been set up. The criteria is as italicized in the quote from the code. It's essentially if it can be demonstrated to the approving body that it is not feasible to comply

with this standard. So that's really your only guiding consideration is if you think it's feasible or not to provide the setback. Moving on to the other consideration, it is the open space reduction uh required by code is 25%. However, in LDR section 4410H4, which is in the automotive commercial zoning district, it specifies that the board at their discretion may allow a reduction for existing sites. Again, we've documented that this was an existing auto dealership. I took a screenshot from a few years back. It was Delray Auto Mall. It was that for a long time and then since uh it's just been a storage lot. Um the board has the discretion to approve a reduction of open space uh below 25% so long as it is not being further reduced from the existing point. So as the applicant demonstrated there is currently approximately 1% of open space on site. They are proposing 11% which is less than required but significantly more than existing which is why this provision applies. So your criteria for this request is determining that such a reduction does not diminish the practical application of the requirement uh particularly as it relates to perimeter uh requirements and the applicant went over that as well. And just to reiterate, they are providing the minimum required perimeter uh buffering. This is just an overview again, you saw this in the applicant's presentation showing the existing landscaping versus the new landscaping. And just to point out, I don't think the applicant mentioned it, but the existing landscaping on site at the front um of the site is not counted in this calculation because it's actually um incorporated within the 10 foot of rightway dedication. So, it's no longer part of the site. Uh moving on to architectural design, um

it is a contemporary typology um with uh variation in material. Uh there's shifts in the geometry and the massing that add some interest. There's a high ratio of glass and it's pretty much consistent with the, you know, national prototype designs you would see for these dealerships anywhere you go. Uh looking at the side elevations, this is the north and south elevation. You can can see the sort of material and design features of the front wrapped around the corner. And then we have the, you know, the bulk of the uh of the parking garages and then those service area accesses on the sides as well. And then in the rear

uh the north or sorry the north, the upper image is the current proposal. I just wanted to walk you through some of the history. The bottom right image is the first iteration that staff reviewed of this project. We had some concerns over the screening uh proposed in the garage. They were originally showing some sort of open um metal cables and we just thought that was too visually um not providing enough visual screening. So we worked with them to kind of beef that up and provide better quality screening of the garage. Where we landed at currently with what the applicant is proposing is the upper uh elevation. It's uh CBS wall with stucco. It's a more substantial screening. They uh included more of that solid wall component here. Sorry, wrong button to amplify that screening. Uh but staff still suggests that there might be an opportunity to introduce a higher quality material such as louvers or architectural mesh mesh or some kind of metal screening panel. Uh this is just an example at the bottom. doesn't have to be like this, but we would just encourage you as the board to consider whether you're okay with what they've proposed at the top or whether you think that there might be room for additional improvement. Um, this is the architectural criteria. Generally, it's just that it needs to be found to conform with good taste, good design, and contribute positively to the city and not be seen as a detriment to the neighborhood. with uh regard to section 311 which is required findings for site plan actions in terms of land use. It is already zoned automotive commercial um obviously an automotive dealership is permitted within the automotive commercial zoning district and that is also compatible with the general commercial land use. In terms of concurrency, uh portable water and sewer sewer will

be provided uh via a system approved by the uh public utilities department which has been reviewed for technical compliance. Drainage is provided via an a very very significant underground uh tank system for storm water runoff. If you look at the site plan, I can go back. You'll see quite a lot of uh underground uh retainer tanks, retention tanks. access to the landscape plan, but you can see them pretty much under the entire parking lot. So, that's how they're handling their uh storm water retention. Uh transportation, the Palm Beach County TPS letter indicates that there's no significant impact to the road network expected and that it does meet concurrency and then parks and schools are not applicable. In terms of consistency with the comprehensive plan, there are multiple policies that apply to this. Specifically, policy NDC251 specifically says that this exact location is where automotive dealerships should be encouraged in the city. It says located north of George Boulevard between North Federal and Dixie Highways. That is where this property is located. So, that is consistent with the comprehensive plan. And uh through the technical review, staff deemed that this project is technically compliant with all uh requirements of the LDRs except for the two uh areas of relief that we mentioned which is the front setback relief and the reduction in open open space. And these are your board motions. You can move approval approval subject to conditions denial or continue with direction. And I'm happy to answer any questions. See you. Thank you. Um, at this point, uh, the floor is open for any member of the public who wishes to speak. He'll have three minutes. Just for the record to again, I forgot my quasi my exparte. I did speak to Mayor Carney briefly as well.

Thank you.

Hi, good evening. Ingred Kennamer, 760 Southeast Fifth Avenue. love the fact that we're trying to get some of the car dealerships between George Bush and Tenth out of our downtown core and this is the appropriate place for this and um it's nice it's a great industry and we love the business and the employment that this brings to Delray. Um your planner suggested I'm sorry yes that's the one wanted to see that picture. So your planner suggests that the code requires that the um use is not a detriment to the neighborhood. So, I have two concerns and the president was set with the Volkswagen dealership when they came in for approval in that the um open elevation on the third floor of the parking garage when the guys go to find guys else go to find the car and they start hitting the alarms that is going to amplify in my opinion the car alarm sound going out into the neighborhood. Code enforcement can't enforce it. Every one of the dealerships say they won't ever ever ever ever ever ever use a car fob to find a car. It's not true. The surrounding neighborhood has to listen to cars go on and on and on whenever the car dealership is open. So, we I would ask that you consider finding a way to screen the east elevation like Volkswagen did to reduce the sound that would carry from that. And the fourth floor, of course, there is nothing on that. The second concern, my concern is light pollution. That uh car display on that top fourth floor, that's a billboard. Um what time is that turning off? That is, is that something that we want in Delray? Do we want bill big billboards? The reality is that's a 3D billboard. the um Volkswagen dealership, the top floor of the parking garage. We required and asked them and they complied to have downward lighting that turns off at night, that only there is lights behind the wall, that the light

pole is very short so that light pollution is not spreading throughout, that it's contained on the site. So, those are the things that concern those of us that live in the area about this particular use. We love the use. We just want you to be aware of pollution, the noise pollution and the light control. Thank you. Thank you very much.

No, no one else coming forward. Uh public comments closed this point. uh applicant or the staff have any rebuttal cross-examination? Um if I can just bring up Mr. Neil de Jesus to talk about uh the two items uh that the resident spoke to. Absolutely. Thank you.

Good evening. Neil de Jesus, chief operating officer for Superto the applicant. Um to to the alarm issue, we have a a policy now that uh does inventory control. It's an electronic system that marks where those vehicles are parked by their key fob. So there's no longer a need to uh find those vehicles by the uh key fob alarm, if you will. Um so when a salesperson is going to identify a vehicle, they simply go to the computer. It tells them exactly the spot that is numbered and where that vehicle is located. So that addresses the alarm issue, if you will. In terms of the lights, uh anything in terms of the um the illumination criteria that the city has required in terms of the lower lights, we've complied with and we've agreed to. So that should not be an issue as well.

Is there any questions that I can answer from any of the board members? Not at the moment, I don't think. Thank you, sir. Okay. Thank you. Uh, anything else from the applicant? That's it from my end. Happy to answer any questions. Nothing at this time. All right. Board comments. How about Mr. Cole? Well, the new Let the new guy go first.

Well, so, so let's get right into it. So what what I excellent presentation by both parties fabulous improvement to the site uh from what's exist from what has existed forever to to this this is an absolutely stunning uh beautiful improvement to the to to the environment to the stretch of federal highway and to this particular site. Um I'm in favor of both of the waiverss. uh and the criteria that they have to u rationalize to get there. Um, I'm I'm I'd like to jump right to the architectural component that you ended with and and just asking us if we were happy with the architectural uh pres the architectural scheme uh and and I think more or less on the backside or the west side and the openings that were back there and and that if we thought that that was enough to to to support or if we thought that there we should challenge the designer and the team and ask for a little bit more. So parlaying that into the public criticism of the east elevation and the acoustics of finding the car, not finding the car, fob, not fob. I'm I would like to ask if the applicant and their architectural team, if it's appropriate with staff, would offer a uh the screening solution on the east elevation to assist in the acoustics. Uh I don't I hope that's clear. Uh, I think it could add to the architectural ambiance of the whole project and if they choose to then whatever that solution may be swinging

it around and use a little bit of it on the on the west side then all the more better. Um, so that's an observation and a challenge I guess to to make a make for a better product and address the acoustics from within that garage. Um, again, I think it's a drastically improved aesthetic for the site. I'm excited about it. I'm in favor of it. Uh, I love everything else about it. The landscaping is fantastic. It's, uh, it's a wonderful product. So, I'll end with that and maybe I'll add something else later. Okay. Thank you,

Ms. Ma. I don't know if I can address Oh, sure. I'm going to ask the question of the applicant if they'd like to address that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. It's not his first radio. Well done.

Thank Thank you. Um if I may, so Hyundai and Genesis have very strict dealer requirements uh which have kind of limited us in terms of the design. um staff has pushed us and we've worked with them very closely gone back numerous instances to Hyundai and Genesis and tried to you know do the best we can in terms of screening but we are limited with what they will approve um and so you know we're we're open to having the conversation with them but um I would be hesitant to a condition that would require any such improvement Um, again, we're happy to speak with Hyundai and Genesis and see what they will allow. Uh, but ultimately it's it's up to, you know, corporate in from the dealership itself.

Sounds to me like maybe corporate has a few solutions. Is that safe to say? Uh, we've we've certainly pushed them as far as we can go. I know staff had um again we've we've come a long way already and I think we're almost at that breaking point where we've done so much that I I I honestly don't know how much further they're willing to go. Um I'm going to bring Mike Cavlli up. He's got some of the history on that.

Hi Mikelli 129 South Whitten Avenue. Could you bring the landscape plan up? We we worked with staff on multiple submissions for these elevations. Um and and the one thing I'd like to point out is which one is the is it the bottom button or the top button? The top button.

Okay, the top button. There we go. We have foundation planting along the building here. Then if you go over there is another row of landscaping that we ran all along this area here. Then when you come over the required landscape buffer on the property line is here. And then we added this row of oak trees with understory plantings. So we've done a fourlevel tier of of screening on the rear of this building. So that essentially from Dixie Highway, you're not going to see a whole lot. So, so being sensitive to the conversation that we had with staff with regards to screening of of that that area. So, um hopefully that'll that'll help with the discussion. [Music]

And I'm sorry if I can just bring Neil back uh to speak to that architecture a little bit more as well. I apologize. Uh I should have I should have addressed this earlier. So our our dealer agreement with Honda Genesis, what they call the the new 2.0 is tied to a program guide. And so every time we deviate from the program guide, we lose either incentive or uh a lotment um in terms of uh car incentive or vehicle numbers. With that said, the new software program that was developed to uh inventory our our stock eliminates the need for the the sound barrier, if you will, because uh they no longer have to use the key fob to find the vehicle. It's identified by location within the computer system of that car. Kind of like your OnStar. if you know any anybody has OnStar I they can identify where that vehicle is at at at any given point. So um that has been worked into this into this dealership. So I I don't see that as as an issue. And then additionally working with staff to further buffer that as as uh Mike Cavelli has just said, we've layered in multiple areas of landscaping to to to uh buffer that if necessary. But again, um under the new software program, it it's it pinpoints the location of the vehicle. uh today uh at our current location, if they try to find a vehicle, they have to walk every lot where those vehicles are until they find it, sound the alarm. Under the new software program, it goes right through the vehicle's computer and it tells them where that vehicle is. So, um that that

noise concern uh will not would not be a concern. In addition to that, from the location of this building to the nearest resident, we're talking about several thousand ft um if not uh several hundred yards uh before before that sound wouldward travel. But again, there's no reason for them to use it. You have a a better chance of a of a customer setting their car alarm when they park uh and making that sound than us looking for a vehicle. Any questions for me? Thank you. Anything else, Mr. Chair? Sir, thanks. Anything else from you, Ryder?

Not yet. No. Okay, Miss Malikica. So, new guy did pretty good. Yeah, very I'm satisfied with the answers and hopefully Ingred is as well with regard to the potential of the key fob noise and then the lighting. and I'm excited about this project and have no problems with um any of the waiverss either. Oh, thanks Mr. Scott. Yes, thank you. Um Ingred, I appreciate you bringing up the uh Volvo dealership. I remember when that was being discussed. It is Ingred, correct? Okay.

I remember when uh that came before the CRA. I think it was about 2018 2019 thereabout. Um, and I'm satisfied with the uh the whole noise uh solution cuz that was one of the issues that came up with that Volvo dealership. But the lighting, Mr. De Jesus, you did mention that you all were pretty much in requirement with I mean in line with what? Yeah, I'll answer that if I may. Um, so the city has phototric requirements that any development has to comply with, including an auto dealership. dictates illumination maximums depending on whether it's parking or building entry.

Uh and all lighting fixtures are required to be full cutoff luminaries oriented downwards for any development type uh not just auto dealerships. So we've looked at a preliminary phototric plan through the initial site plan review and then that would be reverified at time of building permit. it would have to comply with what the city standards are. Um, which again mandates that they're pointed downwards and uh within the allowable elimination. So, so that should be an issue. Correct. Moving forward. Okay. I'm fine. Yeah. Please.

Mr. Chair, if I if I may, Mr. Stum, uh during that period with the Volvo, I was actually the interim city manager. So, I'm well aware of the lighting issues that that uh we dealt with during that time. And so my communications to our architect was to make sure we comply with that so we didn't have to deal with those issues again. Thank you.

Maliki, do you have some further comment that's coming to you from your sheer? Yeah. No, this is this is the resident that spoke earlier. She's Yes, I know. Oh, okay. Do you have more that you wanted to say? I'm glad to hear there's new software, right? It's public comment is closed, but if you want to ask a question, but that's why I would like to limit the interruption and kind of limit it to discussion. But if of course if you have a question, you can always ask. Thank you. So that's for the board to decide. I'll have a question for Ingred. Ingred, what would you like to say?

Mr. Cope, thank you. So that's great. I love to hear that there's a new software. The question is when they don't use it, where are you guys? Can I have your cell phone numbers? Because Volkswagen doesn't use it and we have to listen to those things all the time. I mean, Mark Woods was down at Living at Ford dealership because the car alarms were going off forever in a day for code enforcement. And how do you enforce something that's 30 seconds long and then it takes away from the quality of our life? And it's not something that's in the background. It's in your face kind of noise. The precedent was set with Volkswagen. So why can't they screen the one layer on the east side and if it's about money and Hyundai I appreciate that they have corporate requirements. This is our town. Who's you know weren't is a highendai running this or are we? Thank you.

Before anyone else like interrupts during board discussion, at least acknowledge it with the board to make sure that people actually want to hear the question. Yeah, I thought that was appropriate. Okay, we're Mr. P. Me? Yeah. Okay. Um, no, I too am in um in support of both the waiverss. Um the um and I and I think the the landscaping screening screening is sufficient. My question was, and I couldn't tell from the geometric uh from the phototric designs, are there going to be any light poles on the fourth floor? because I didn't see it in the geometric in the phototrics or in the the plans.

Uh I'll allow the applicant to confirm if if they are again we'll reverify a time of building permit. There are maximum illuminations for rooftop parking decks. So it would need to comply if they are, but I'll let them confirm if they intend to or not. I believe all the lighting is fairly low and within the walls, not um on kind of taller light poles that you would see in some public parking because the Ford dealership has has has lights on on poles. Yeah, I don't I don't believe that's the case here.

Um um and then can you go back to the um the elevation that showed the the screening the ch I think it's I was curious. It says there that is that the north elevation or the west elevation? Uh this is the um the northwest elevation which is the Dixie Highway elevation. This is the rear. That's that's the rear elevation. Okay. Cuz I was going to say if any elevation needs to be screened, that's the one that that needs to be screened.

Um I'm I'm happy if uh if they would at least consider going back and and asking the corporate if they could get a little more space there um or a little more screening there. Um, but uh then uh let's see. Oh, and I but I I I also like uh Mr. Cavlli, I like the use of all the native plants. Um the live oaks along the the screen is is a is a nice touch and I like I like the architectural compartment of the of the structure. The one thing the resident asked about the two cars up in the little go-go booth on the top floor.

Go booth. Is that Can that be Can that be screened from the rear so that light doesn't doesn't penetrate? Um I'm I'm told we can do one better. That's not actually lit up. It's not lit up at all. Those are just glass enclosure. It's just a glass enclosure. There's no lighting. So that solves that question. That's um I think I'm good. Thanks. Okay, great. I spent a lot of hours on this, so I bear with me as I go through it. Yes.

Uh the cars on the roof I find very disturbing. It looks like a carvana bullet or bullet board on I 95 and I don't think we have anything else like it uh in Delray. Uh, and I hopefully this would not set a precedent if we did it. So, I I would definitely be opposed to that. I also wanted to ask you about the two car pads. I guess this is one of them uh here in the front, but there are two. And are those elevated? And if so, how elevated? They're not elevated. It's just a pad.

What about the other one that's not in the same thing? Okay, great. Great. Um the uh claim that this is in concurrence with the comprehensive plan because it's automotive uh in general commercial also has as one of those other 4.1 or whatever that is supposed to be mixed use and that area is becoming less and less mixed use. So I'm wondering as staff why you wouldn't say that it has problems with the comprehensive plan.

That cube is a deal. It's not customary for automotive dealerships to be in a mixeduse configuration. So I wouldn't default to that. That's not what the comprehensive plan says.

Okay. All right. um the underground storage. Well, I' I'd first like to say is I say I would say that the entire space right now is open space and you're saying it's just this buffer uh that is really on the joining property, but it's open ground. it filtrates through, it bubbles through. And I have a problem where you say there's only uh one space uh 1% now. Um and yet it's probably 100% that that rain would go through. And now to say, well, let's compromise between 25 and one and come up with 11. Uh I just don't think that's in congruence with what the LDRs say. So open space is a defined term per the comprehensive plan and or sorry in the land development land development regulations. So pursuant to the definition in the land development regulations only 1% of the site would qualify towards what is considered open space. Um in terms of drainage we are providing the necessary drainage on the site to accommodate the proposed use. That's all been vetted through the city's engineering department. Um, so I I mean it's a gravel parking lot today. I don't know if there's drainage issues or not there when it rains. Um, I don't know if everything flows through, but we are accommodating the drainage as needed for this project. So, can you give us some statistics on how much water can be stored underground and what sort of rainfall uh it would take to fill that up?

Do we know does it meet like 25? I know Mike has the answer to that. I can't actually give you the numbers but um the drainage calcs have been been done on this by the engineer and there is a drainage report in the file that proves that the drainage is adequate. Most of the drainage in this is uh through drainage vaults not exfiltration. So it has a much higher retention uh ability than exfiltration trench.

Understand? And for the most part, just about the entire roadway that goes around the building is in drainage. So there's a massive amount of drainage being provided within this site to comply with that. That's not a permeable surface, right? So it's

the bottom of those the bottom of all of those vaults are permeable. So what it does is when you have a really heavy rainfall, it has the ability for all that water to go underground, not be in a big puddle. And then the bottoms of them are open so that it can percolate over time. But but what it does is it has a big volume so it can store that heavy rainfall without it puddling and then it over time, you know, goes back down into the groundwater. So that's it. Be nice to know what the numbers were. It's it's it's big numbers. So, okay. Yeah.

Uh I want to steal a note from Ingred. Uh the idea that we should be concerned about the corporate policies of Hyandai when our our responsibility is to deal with the citizens concerns uh with regard to all of these factors that we talk about. Uh I I'm not quite sure why we should have to comply with what Hyundai and Genesis want.

I I understand the comment. Um what I can say is again, you know, we've come a long way in this process working with staff on the architecture. Um we have provided significantly more screening than what was originally contemplated. Um we're we're doing what we can. We're happy to have the conversation and see if there's something more that can be added. Um I just don't know here this evening what specifically they would be willing to allow, but we're we're happy to have a conversation. It's

we can all remember when every uh hamburger place had to have yellow arches and you'd look for the yellow arches. that day is gone and it certainly is gone in Delray that we do have architectural standards uh we do have LDRs that uh that we have to comply with. Um I'm I'm wondering a little bit why the screening is being done on Dixie on public land as opposed to your land.

Yeah. So, uh, we do have the perimeter buffer required on our property as well. Um, but there is green space that is within the right ofway there currently. Um, and again, looking at a lot of the other dealerships along Dixie Highway, specifically if you go south of Linton, um, you see, you know, vehicles there unloading whether they're supposed to or not. I I mean, it happens. um we want to ensure you know we're preventing that. We want to beautify uh the right of way to the extent that we're able to. Um so it's something additional that we're providing that we think will add to the project, add to the corridor. Um it's really a beautifification effort. The

buffer strip that is on your property on Dixie, what is that comprised of? Uh we're providing landscape materials there as well. A mix of trees and hedges. Trees and hedges. Yes. Not just grass. Not just grass. No. Okay. Um do the lights stay on all night in this configuration? Do they go off at a certain hour? Because I think that goes back to the Volvo case. Yes, sir. Okay. They go off at closing hours. So, uh Okay. Mr. Did you just for the record is saying they go off at closing hours?

Okay. And just one final thing. I'm worried about the setback issue that uh we go from a 15 foot maximum to a 785 or 78 foot maximum. I I do know that probably one of the reasons of that for that are firet trucks.

Correct. Uh but if you have a 15-foot setback, the fire trucks can easily now chief to Jesus may disagree with me on this uh can actually reach those buildings with their hoses and and ladders uh so that the requirement to set back simply for fire department I think that's redundancy with federal highway. Let me take it. I will allow one of the experts to come on. I didn't know you were a chief, too. I spent many time, many hours with the chief on this.

Um, originally the way we to talked about taking care of fire protection on this was to have a gate in the back northwest corner like we show. There's a siren activated gate. That road was going to come down along the north and we're going to have an exit only on the federal highway. DOT said, "Uhuh, no you're not." So with a 15t setback, you need a 25- foot inside radius to get the truck around the curve and a 50ft outside radius. So in order to get that truck around that radius, you can't do it in 15 ft. So the only with DOT not allowing us to be able to get the truck out of the north road, we only could only come and make that very large radius at the top of the screen there to get the truck around to go back out to either go left or right on the southern road. So I mean we spent multiple meetings with DOT um and a lot of conversation related to circulation for fire protection and this was the solution

and that fire equipment couldn't work from the f from federal highway uh no and andor come off a federal highway on the south side because what if the truck came had to come up Dixie and not federal you you don't have any way of getting out there. So, we had to provide full circulation to be able to to be able to service the site. Okay.

I guess I'm just generally concerned that we're trying to squeeze too much into a 5B bag here and that maybe the parcel isn't really big enough for what Hyundai and Genesis want to put there. I'll I'll let you think about this. If we did a 15 foot setback, everything in the front would be in the back. It would still be the same building. So, it it's it it doesn't save you anything. It does just add a huge safety factor to it by doing it that way. So, thank you both.

Okay, Mr. Catz, it's never easy following Mr. Chart here, but I'm gonna attempt. Um I I do have a couple questions about the parking especially on that front. My first question is are you selling used cars or just new cars? New cars. There's no used cars being sold. So do new you trade in cars are going to go to auction? Go to auction. Yes, sir. So no no more no for for the record. Yeah. I'm sorry. I just asked that question because that's any car dealership. I've been to the current car dealership there's used cars. Yes. So, um, under the new dealership agreement, we we sell new cars. Our our used cars, our tradeins go to auction. Auction at all.

Yes, sir.

That's interesting because that's my concern is the the first of all, it comes to the whole key fob thing, it doesn't if you have used cars, that's not going to solve that problem. If it's all new cars, they'd be in your system. So, that would that helps me um understand that better because of, you know, obviously storage of new cars. Um, you will be finding them though to transport them because they're going to I mean you're going to be trading in cars every day whether you like it or not. Every every car dealer does and there's going to be times to store them somewhere, get them to there. So there there could be some noise aspects. So just to say that there will be none I think is disingenuous, but how can we um mitigate that? I also get I did a couple years ago I did a lot of work with Stellantis um which is another car manufacturer and learning about how these are a lot of them were all changing over their Chrysler stores and met with a lot of different dealer owners just having conversations with them about these issues with so I understand how hard it is to deal with the dealer the sorry the the owners of the um the brand on these new brand guidelines that they of them. Um, it's not easy to comply with. I I know that just from conversations I've had. I will say if you wait two years to do this project, there will be all new Hyundai brand guidelines when I I probably visited when I was partnering with them 100 different Chrysler stores, maybe more than that. And it's interesting, you can see every five years the reiteration of the brand guidelines with these stores. Um, and they change them so drastically. Um question about these 153 parking spots to staff. You said there's not going to be any parking there of of for sale vehicles only for the public. Is that enforceable by code enforcement? So if there is a line of new cars there, will

code enforcement site them for that or be able to site them, I should say? I know you can't speak for code, but sure, will we be giving them that ability within this? So the so the requirement is that a certain number of the provided spaces are allocated or designated for parking of customers and employees uh of which 153 required the applicant has on the site plan I don't know if we can see it on um the ground floor plan but there they've uh designated um essentially all 88 of the spaces that are exterior to the building as well as a certain number interior to the building as spaces that are being allocated. And if vehicle inventory was parked in those spaces that are designated as allocated on the site plan, they would be violating their site plan. So I do believe there would be grounds for some sort of remediation.

Okay. Um because I you know and things are going to because that could change too. Like I know you're not selling used cars now. You know they don't want to put them there. They could this could become a you know another brand in a couple years and they sell the dealership or you know who knows Hyundai goes out of business. Things change in in in car industry. I remember when I sat on the stasis and I had former mayors and you know bike advocacy people tell me that nobody was going to drive cars in 10 years from now. Well, we're 10 years later. Guess what? They're building more car dealerships in town than they ever have. yet. They were telling me we needed to reduce the size of the roads because we weren't going to have cars. Um, and nobody needed to buy cars and which is shocking that we're spending now millions and millions of dollars on car dealerships. I guess they were not 100% correct when they had made those statements to us.

Can I ask are you going to be doing maintenance there? There's service bays on there. There are service bay. Yeah. So, it's not just the showroom. No, there's there's service bays in both Hyundai and Genesis. Okay. That's where they make the That's where all the employees are. Yes, sir.

Yeah, that's the services where they uh the car dealerships these days. That's their that's their profit. Um they definitely want um I did have concern about those spaces if that was they were really going to be freed up. Um I don't mind so much the cars at the top. I get if it was going to be lit up since they're not lit. I think it's just aesthetic and again it's probably part of their new whatever their particular brand guideline is. And I know that yes, it's Delray. We don't want more golden arches, even though I'm pretty sure there is golden arches at the McDallan, right? Um the only one out that I've seen not is in in Arizona, I think. And um not those big ones.

Not those big ones, but we still there's there's a pretty big one there on on Military Trail. Um but you know, I get it. I I'm first of all first of all thank you for the presentations and and all the question answered and there's been a lot I am supportive of the plan um question if you were to add in maybe this for the applicant but had you added say you were allowed to add in that buffer in the back as far as the percentage did you calculate what that changes your percentage too to make us feel better for that 12% we're giving up

it's I don't remember the exact percentage but it's over 8,000 square ft so we Right now we're providing 11,000 square ft on site. So it's it's a pretty substantial increase over So you're probably going from 11 to maybe 20%. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's 15 right now. You're at 11%. 15,000 square feet ver and we're adding another 8,000 plus. So it's about another 25% of that of that. Uh we're getting closer to that%. Correct. If you I know we can't count it in our but to me it it helps at least ease the pill of giving up that

13% or whatever giving up 14% I'm not doing my math right here of um difference.

Mr. KZ, if I may, if if you recall when you were a commissioner, the the city had offered all those property owners uh along that old uh that that back to the old Dixie uh the opportunity to um acquire, if you will, that that um right away and landscape it. and uh the previous owner of that property did not take advantage of that opportunity. Um because I was aware of that when this came up, we asked if we could take advantage of that opportunity and acquire that and landscape and beautify it. And that's where that that property came in.

I think it's great. I I I'm very supportive of that extra landscaping. Um I I know that this is a numbers game of trying to squeeze. I mean, I've been to when a couple years ago buying a car, I visited your current dealership and I mean, you can't park there. You can't look. You can't I mean, it's a it's really you guys are it's it's tight in there for anybody trying to buy a car. Hence why I bought a Tesla. You don't have to deal with car dealerships. But, um, yeah, that's that's really all the questions I had. Thank you. Yeah. I don't I don't really have a lot that hasn't already been said because a lot's already been said. Yeah.

Um to me, first of all, I think what I think something that was said is anything's an improvement over what's out there right now, and I think you're you had a nice building, and I think it's going to enhance the corridor to have it there. Um and and as to a lot of the my colleagues concerns, it's a car dealer and it's an automotive car dealer zoned area. I think that uh the 15 foot the limited setback is for when you talk about the mixeduse areas that's designed for general commercial not for automotive commercial zoning. It's to it's to have a walkable corridor with the with the retail right there. That's not compatible with the automotive dealership. And I think I don't think there's any problem with the 78 foot um setback because I think it's appropriate for the design and the use of the property. Um, I'd love to see more open space, but I don't see how you're going to do it. Um, the cars on top. Yeah, it's fine. It's not lit up. That, as was said, I think that's the most important thing. It's not lit up. And as far as the screening, I think I could support. I realize the constraints you have and I realize the costs that you have associated with it, but let's have one more round of the applicant will work with staff to try and see if they can come up with more screening on the property if we can do that. Is that acceptable to you?

I think so. to we're always willing to work it. I mean I mean I realize it's it's to deny it. I don't I think we'd have to deny it to that to send back. No. So if you are wanting to continue it Yeah. You would need to continue with direction and Exactly. You could approve with conditions. Approve with condition. Can we make it a condition?

Mr. Chair, if I if I can. We don't want to continue. This is a fabulous project. So what I would what I would suggest is uh there's is that we ask my very basic solution would be to continue the glazing and the fra the framing the glazing system up into six bays. The five that face east and then the one that turns this that south corner. That's a super simple that's not a big ask. It makes the building look much more uh homogeneous. It solves a lot of acoustical problems. It's of no great expense to the project. And if they can't get that past corporate, then then I've got problems with everything else.

I'm not really following you. You're at the south. If you want to put that last that rendering up elevation or rendering. So So well, the rendering's a little bit different than this. This takes precedent over the rendering. So the open bays would be just above the two garage doors in the center to the left. So, so sorry. Wait, where? Oh, wrong way. So, which side are we looking at? The the right Dixie side or the mil or the federal side? That's bay number one. Now, go to your left. There's two, three, four, and five. This is the federal side. Federal side. Okay. Go ahead. And then it turns the corner. Uh, the sixth bay would be on the uh the souththeast corner.

Yes. Which is this bottom elevation right here. There you go. Okay. I think To me that that solves just you know the aesthetic concern there like a stucco wall there. No no no a clear glazing system. It's an extens. It's extension of the systems that are below that. It's very very basic very simple. So let me go over the options again. It's a motion to deny, to approve, approve subject to conditions,

and I would suggest that those conditions would be like nons substantive conditions or a motion to continue with direction. In that case, they would come back and do the application again. Okay. All right. My personally, I don't think it needs to come back. Absolutely. I agree. Um, you want to try to make a motion then or what do you mean? I don't know. Uh, well, are you mean? wants the board to all agree if if it's a motion to approve with conditions, a motion to just approve and also we would need to know what the conditions are exactly and I don't feel like that's clear. No, I don't think it is clear because I don't think

see this is not a recommendation. This is a final approval. This is final approval. I think the only condition that we're talking about right now is Roger's suggestion. Well, but if we put that condition on it, okay, then they have to do that. Is that acceptable? That's correct. And is that are they going to be able to get that to be able to do it? I guess my question is is that clear to the applicant? Is it And is it clear to staff? Can we what I just described? Can we phrase it in a way that they can? You're telling them they have to do what you said to do. Correct. As opposed to giving them a thing that says they have to find a way to do it.

That then then it would have to come back to us. No, it wouldn't. Well, it should. If it's not a condition, ask them back to us. It should. I don't think they want to come back to us. I would

I just want to make sure that the the whole board agrees on Well, not agrees because we'll vote anyways, but on what the condition is that everyone's understanding what he's saying and then I want to make sure the applicant and staff is also understanding what he's saying. So I I have a question. If we give this condition Roger's proposing condition that they put the glass on those bays, that's the simple condition. If they can't, we pass it with that condition. They go to Hyundai and they say, "Oh, we can't do that. Can they appeal this our decision, the conditional decision to the commission, then have another quasi hearing with the commission to get the up or down and not have to come back to us?" Because right now you don't go in front of the commission unless they appeal it, right?

But if you if come back and says, "Hey, glass is fine, it should you should be good to go, right?"

Mr. Chair, if I if I may, um I I don't I don't have a problem with with the suggestion. I I do struggle a little bit with this this perceived issue of noise uh to residents that are um I believe not even close to where they would be affected if there was noise. And again, I'm I'm I I know what the software program costs us. Um I I know what these what the manufacturer requires us to abide by. And and even if an employee was to say, "I'm I'm not going to use the computer system. I'm going to hit the key fob." We are so distant from the closest resident that uh you would hear traffic driving on Federal Highway before you would hear a car um lock and unlock um going off in a parking garage that far away. So I while I understand um Ingred's concern, I I don't I don't I just don't believe that in a residence that far away in in uh Ocean Reef that you would you would actually hear that that car alarm. So So I want to just put that in perspective if I may. With that said, um our dealer agreement uh with the manufacturer is uh we we don't like it, but if you want to be a dealer, you have to comply with it. Um their brand standard on this new 2.0. Um we've made about every concession we could working with staff and staff has been great to excuse me to um get them to deviate from their brand standard as much as possible. I would certainly ask um and I'll give you my word that we will ask

if we could glaze those uh that floor above. Um if they say no, um I would be willing to produce that uh to the city in writing. Um but I I don't want to have to come. We are we're in a settlement agreement with the city on our first denial. Um, and we're 6 years behind on this project. I don't want to have to come back again to this board or even appeal to the city commission if at all possible. If that's what this board requires requires us to do, we will certainly do that. Um, but um, I could tell you as the chief operating officer for the company, uh, we will ask Hyundai Genesis if we could glaze those areas. Um, and I say that hesitantly because I truly don't believe it's going to make a difference whether we do it or not, except change the facade of the building. Um, even in dealing with with the city and staff on on screening the the uh old Dixie side of the building, we're screening the railroad tracks and an industrial section. Um, it's it's we're at $40 million on this building. at at some point the the owner's grandkids will see the profits from the building. Um, so I I understand the concerns, but I would just ask if you would consider keeping it in perspective on on is this a real issue that we have to deal with or is it just something that we're we're we're we're trying to address because there there's a concern. So, I I will again and uh just to wrap it up, I will certainly um appeal to Hyundai Genesis and ask them if they

will allow us to to glaze those those uh two areas. Um the car could be in the parking lot that they hit the alarm. Um and and again, we we we went through this with with the Volvo and Volkswagen dealership. Um, I I sat up here and heard the resident's complaints. And when you go to code enforcement, at the time there were three registered complaints about the noise. Three. That's a public record. Not making that number up. Um, and I would I would say that the results would be the same today at our current location. And prior to one year ago, they were finding cars by hitting the key fob. Um, but again, it could be a resident park a customer parking their car and locking it and somebody could say, "Hey, they're setting off the alarm." So, um, I I hope I'm clear enough. I I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I if we can do it, we will certainly do it. But I would ask that if Hyundai Genesis denies us the opportunity to do that, that that approval be conditional upon whether they say yes or no. I I'm going to take a stab at a motion if the board is okay with that. I'm going to make move approval as amended of a level three site plan application for request for 2612-2650 North Federal Highway including architectural elevations and landscape plan to construct an approximately 167 square ft fullervice automotive sales use by finding that the request is consistent with the land development regulations and comprehensive plan plan subject to conditions that the applicant asks the Hyundai Corporation to glaze those five bays mentioned earlier. And if they cannot, they must provide the letter to the city showing the denial and then it would be approved without

the glazed um after the letter is submitted. If that is the case, second. Okay. A motion by Mr. Cat, second by Mr. Chart. Call the role, please. Could there be some discussion? Oh, just six bays. Six bay. Sorry, thank you for the correction. Sorry. Is that clear to staff? Uh, yes. Very clear. Yes, six days. We counted them. Sorry. Okay. Sorry. It's corrected to six bays and now we call a roll.

Price Patton. Yes. Mitch Katz. Yes. Dedra Strong. Yes. Roger Cop. Yes. Jim Char, yes. Judy Malikica, yes. Gregory Snider, yes. The motion passes. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Thank you all. Thanks for your time. Good luck. Thank you. And I'm really going to be curious what the h says. Can we put that up here? Can we bet that on hardrockb.com whether or not they're going to say yes or no? How does that go back to staff? It's just staff.

Takes all the boards out of that. Moving gone. [Music] Whoops. To the next one. Surprise. Another card. Yeah. And it's car dealer night. To an extent it is more than Okay. Um, if you'd read it into the record, please.

Yes. I'll stay for the record. My name is Susie Rodriguez, senior planner for Delray Beach. I would like to enter file number 2024249 into the record. This is for agenda item 8B, which is the recommendation for a level four site plan application for KIA del Rey located at 2255 South Federal Highway. The applicant is here today to present. Thank you. If we could have uh any experte, Mr. Cass, I drove by the site. I talked to a couple residents. I believe it's Florida Boulevard, but the adjacent East um street um and took a look at it from both sides. That's it.

None. I did the same I didn't talk to any residents but I went and uh visited the site on both sides. Yeah, I did I did the same visit site uh east and west. Mr. Sh. No expert. I visited the site. None whatsoever. All right. In that case, Miss Binky, welcome back.

Hi. It is uh yeah, an interesting evening for me, too. Um, I only started learning about these uh dealerships about a week ago when I was told I was covering both of them. So, here I am as well surprised uh to be here uh on auto dealership evening. Um, here representing Kia del Rey on this application um for redevelopment of their property. Um, so it sounds like many of you are very familiar with the site um having driven by and in the area. Um, this property is highlighted in the red box on your screen. It is on the east side of Federal Highway. Uh, it is a 3.07 acre site. Um, it also has a future land use of general commercial and an automotive commercial zoning designation. Um, currently it is an existing dealership. Um, there are two buildings on the site. One was constructed in the60s. Um the other was, I believe, in ' 86, which is almost 40 years ago, which my brain does not want to admit. Um but it's it's located kind of in an area um heavily populated by car dealerships. You have Mazda immediately to the north. Um you do have a small commercial area um south of this site, Delray Plaza. It's got West Marine uh coffee shop and a couple other uses in there. And then south of that you have uh the Ford dealership. You do have uh the Tropic Isle community located to the east. Um it is Florida Boulevard that is uh immediately adjacent. So, um you have the property, you have the 50-foot rightway for

Florida Boulevard, and then you have some existing um residential uses. Oh, here we go. Um so, here are some existing conditions, uh images of the existing Kia dealership. Um, similar to a lot of the car dealerships that were developed in the past, um, there's not much landscaping on this side either. Um, you do have landscaping along Federal Highway. Uh, but there is no buffer on the east, north, or south sides currently. Um, and you have about a 50 foot setback to the east property line right now. Um here you have again just some existing conditions of the site. Uh you have service bays that front federal highway. Um you have some uh service in the car wash uh with a tent in the rear. Um you have you know the inventory parking um without any landscape there currently. And here we go. Um we are requesting to redevelop the site with a new dealership um that has 42,000 roughly square feet of um the showroom and office uses and a three-story garage. Um and we do have two waivers included in this request. One is a waiver to reduce the number of required showers from eight showers to one. And the second is a waiver to reduce the

required setback of the rear wall. Um so just touching upon that briefly while we're on um this this site plan screen. Um so the showers are a function of the required bicycle parking. Um, you know, the intent behind it is that if you have lots of people that are using their bicycles going to work, they would like a place to shower before going about their day. Um, so based on the bicycle parking required, eight showers would be needed. Um, that seems a little significant for a car dealership. We are requesting to go to one. Um, and there is um for respect to the second waiver, there's an existing wall along the property line um adjacent to Florida Boulevard essentially right here. Um there's lush landscaping already existing uh within the Florida Boulevard right ofway. Um, if we are to remove the wall and create a new wall that's offset by, you know, another it's 2 feet into the site, um, you know, we'd be probably impacting a lot of that existing mature landscaping and their root systems, um, leading to a lot of that coming out. And we prefer to keep it in. We think um you know it's better for the residents that are living over there to have taller landscaping, more mature landscaping than to take that all out just to move a wall 2 ft over um and you know plant something that's not as mature, that's going to take more time to grow, that's not going to provide as great of a buffer uh from the start. And we'll get into both of those

requests, but yes, that blue um line is essentially where we are requesting the setback uh for the rear wall to be at 0 ft rather than 2 feet into the site. Um this area of the city is also part of the South Federal Highway Redevelopment Plan. And so the plan was adopted in 2012. Um and it's essentially intended to guide the form orientation and compatibility of development within this area of federal highway. Um it contains kind of explicit urban design strategies um guiding building orientation, layout, screening again um to support the comprehensive plan and um promote compatibility and contextsensitive design. So you know they are policies, they are guidelines that are in place. Um the highlighted portion of the comprehensive plan actually speaks to um an LDR text amendment being required in order to amend the development standards to address what's in the P uh the redevelopment plan. So, you know, we're we're working with these guidelines and trying to comply to the extent that we are able to. Um but essentially the LDRs still govern. Um so we've spent a lot of time going back and forth with staff on these guidelines um in trying to ensure we're providing compatibility in accordance with this redevelopment plan to the extent that we can. Um, and just by way of that, um, along the rear property line, uh, the redevelopment plan essentially

requires us, and I'm going to just switch back to this site so you can have it in context, um, but requires us to have a 50-foot setback, minimum setback, um, as kind of our base setback. And then for at least 70% of the building, that setback needs to be increased to 75 ft. So we could be 50 ft to the property line for 30% of the building and then we have to be 75 ft back uh for the remainder pursuant to that redevelopment plan. The code does not require that setback. Um what we are providing complies with the code but we are providing um a minimum 60 foot setback so greater than the 50% required. Um but just because of the site constraints and how narrow it gets um we're we're going up to a 68 foot setback along the rear property for the majority of the building. So we're a couple feet off from what the redevelopment plan requires. But again, um you know, we do have that additional buffer of the right of way. So when you add the right ofway from the residential uh buildings, we'd be even farther. Um the redevelopment plan also uh suggests that the wall be located 10 ft from the property line into the landscape buffer. Again, um we're trying to keep the land uh the existing wall where it is and we'll show you some of the photos of the existing landscaping, but I know the staff report kind of gets into the redevelopment plan a little bit, so I wanted to make sure I touched on it as well. Um so, in terms of site design, you have a single access point from Federal Highway. Um you have circulation around the entirety of the building as well. Um

what you see here um this is essentially where uh customers would bring their vehicles to service. Uh no service is actually happening in this area. Um, but I know, um, Honda has the same kind of thing where you drive in, you um, you know, check in, you leave your vehicle, and then, you know, a service tech brings it around into the garage um, in order to actually perform the service. So, just wanted to clarify that that's only a drop off area. Um it does have glass doors that will come down um at the end of the day for security purposes. Uh but no service is going on uh in that area. All of the service is going to be internal to the garage and uh within a completely enclosed space. Um we are meeting the open space requirement. Um 25% again is the open space requirement and we are providing that. Um we are providing a 25 ft buffer in the rear. Um as you can see kind of on the bottom of your screen there adjacent to Florida Boulevard. There's the existing landscaping again that we're proposing to maintain. Um, we would add some plantings where there are some gaps that need to be filled and then there would be additional trees planted internal to the site on the inside portion of the wall. Um, which you can see kind of over here. The solid more solid green line is kind of the wall where the hedge and a hedge that is there. And then we'd be planting internal all of these trees as well. Um, and then that's in addition to the plantings along the perimeter of the site. Um, again, there's no perimeter

landscape areas that exist today. So, all of those plantings are new. Um, and then, uh, along Federal Highway, we'd have attractive landscaping there as well. Um, so that's the service reception and drop off area. um our 68 ft setback um and I believe the the standard in the code is actually 10 ft. Again, the redevelopment plan provides for more which is what we are trying to do by setting the building back further. Um there you have our 20 foot uh wide landscape buffer and that's in addition to what's existing in the right of way currently. Um here you have a graphic showing how we get to the 25%. Um so again we we do exceed the requirement. There's 12% existing. Um but we're planting uh along the perimeter of the site and internal in the vehicular use areas. And so this is a floor plan. Um, so as with most dealerships, you have the showroom and uh consultation areas in the front. Um, you have your office kind of in you have offices adjacent to the showroom and a little bit further back. And then your service is entirely contained within the first floor of um kind of that garage area. So, all of the service is within an enclosed portion of the building. Um, and then here are the renderings of the building itself. Um, we spent a fair amount of time going back and forth with staff on the federal highway facade. Um, we've added quite a lot of glazing to it. Um, it does have kind of a more contemporary u modern

look with a lot of clean lines. Um and then you have the garage as well. Um we did, you know, make an effort to provide um kind of solid enclosures where we could. So you can see the garage levels aren't open in its entirety. We do have some areas um where you have kind of more solid uh screening to break it up. Um, and you know, the proposed use and the look and feel of it is consistent with surrounding automotive dealerships as well. Um, here are just a couple examples along Federal Highway. Um, and again, just paying a little bit particular attention to the Ford dealership that was recently redeveloped and is located um just south of the property. That's the one um on the top right hand corner here. Um so that's you know most close to the property in proximity. Um and we do have similar glazing. The garage is tucked away in the back. Um and here are the elevations that were approved for the Ford. again trying to just put things into perspective a little bit in terms of um you know what's adjacent to that residential community. Now um directly across from the from the Ford dealership to the east you do have the federal sorry the Florida Boulevard rightway and then you have a fivestory condo um condo unit. Um it's I think it's actually four or five buildings that are there that make up um those condos. And so um you know they're looking at the back of a garage. That's somewhat what happens in this area when you are you

know adjacent to automotive uses and automotive zoning. Um but this is you know the screening that we have currently um with the wall. So, you can see kind of the lush landscaping that's there. It's already fairly tall and mature. Um, we have another graphic. I think that shows it even a little bit better. Um, and here we've kind of put the parking garage in the back of this image to see what it would look like. And again, this is just with the existing screening, not the supplemental landscape that will be planted on the inside of the wall. Um when in contrast, this is kind of the alternative when you're taking out the plantings and planting new landscaping. Um so this is Florida Boulevard again, uh looking at the Ford dealership that's, you know, two properties to the south. Um and you know, personally, we feel like the existing mature landscaping really adds a lot. Um whereas, you know, when you're putting in new landscaping, you're meeting code requirements, it's it's not as tall, it doesn't provide as much of a canopy. Um you do have more visual into the site, at least for some period of time until that uh landscaping fills out. And depending on, you know, what materials you actually provide, it might not be as full as um it could otherwise be. And so here again is another um view of the existing vegetation. Um just to show you the maturity of the spread um the you know height of the trees. It would be a shame to have that taken out just to move a wall um you know 2 feet into the property.

Um, so this relates to the shower waiver. Again, we're just showing you where the shower that we've included is located. Um, it's kind of by an employee locker area. Um, and we again understand, you know, that the future is hopefully less cars and more people biking and walking uh to work. But as we heard on the earlier item, uh you know, that hasn't happened really over the last 10 years. Um so, you know, we we don't know when that will actually come to fruition, if at all. Um but we are providing one shower in the event, you know, an employee does bike to work or a couple employees. Um, but since this data shows that only 0.3% of the city's residents actually do that, um, and again, the Ford dealership was approved with zero showers and that was through a waiver. All right. And then we have the waiver criteria noted on your screen. Um, the waiver will not adversely affect the neighboring area. Um I think we've shown how um you know the waiver for the wall location will result in a better product leaving the canopy um and the existing vegetation in place. Um the showers certainly won't in affect the neighboring area. Uh the waiver will not significantly diminish the provision of public facilities. They will not impact water sewer drainage um things along those lines. The waiver will not create an unsafe situation. Um, again, it's for the wall location in the showers and it would not result in the grant of special privilege. Um, and again, the Ford dealership got a similar waiver on the showers. Um we do feel like we have shown compliance with these site plan

performance standards in terms of building design um pedestrial pedestrian bicycle and vehicular connections um open space enhancements um the use intensity and density that are appropriate for this location. Again being within an automotive zoning district. Um, we do have the TPS letter showing traffic concurrency. Um, and it will meet the intent of CSR5 which relates to energy efficiency. Um we also feel that the plan and elevations comply with the criteria um for the design in terms of conformity with good taste, the exterior design and appearance um being quality in nature and uh in harmony with the general area. And with that, our team is here to answer any questions. And again, appreciate your time.

Thank you. Yes, provide one correction. Uh for the Ford approval, uh they were approved with the condition to add one shower. So they were approved and certified with one shower. So it's just that correction. Yeah, we did it for we made Ford put a shower in. Ford wanted no showers. Ford wanted no showers and the board made him put a sha one shower in. Correct.

Oh yes. Thank you. Okay. So this is for the recommendation for a level four site plan application for Kia del Rey. The property is located in the automotive commercial zoning district east of Federal Highway. The site is adjacent to the east uh medium residential uh residential zoning and directly north and across federal are other dealerships. The site is within the south federal rede redevelopment plan area. Currently the site consists of two two-story structures totaling in 24,000 square ft. The request today is for a recommendation for a level four site plan application with architectural elevations, landscape plans, and two associated waivers. One waiver is to reduce the required bicycle showers. Second waiver is to maintain the location of the rear wall on the property line. The request also includes a loading demand relief and a height exception for the the stair towers. The request is to demolish the existing structures and construct a three-story 143,672 ft full service automotive dealership. The requested reliefs are as follow to reduce the number of required showers from 8 to 1 and to maintain the rear wall adjacent to the residential zoning as at the property line rather than set back 2 feet. As this is a level four, the application requires a recommendation from PCB and final action from the city commission. Review of the required findings is required for a level four application. The land use and zoning are consistent. All concurrent items have been reviewed and comply. LDR section 321 and 323 have been reviewed and are critical to ensure new development addresses traffic circulation, open space, mobility, and land use compatibility.

Landscape and lighting complies with LDR. The building design is inconsistent with some standards in the LDR and redevelopment plan. The garage lacks sufficient articulation and variation in materials resulting in a visually heavy facade. The project complies with the pedestrian, bicycle, and vehicular connection requirement and overall site supports functional circulation within and around the property. However, the requested waiver to reduce bicycle showers may limit long-term alignment with city's multimodal transportation objectives. Open space and traffic circulations are met. Proposal is consistent with the automotive commercial district and supports redevelopment pattern along South Federal Highway. The corridor is characterized by similar full-ervice automotive facilities and the overall scale and massing requires careful consideration of the compatibility with the adjacent residential area. There is an opportunity to improve the visual and spatial relationship with the adjacent residential. The project meets the technical standards in the LDR but falls short with the standards in the redevelopment plan. East of the site are single family homes and the three-level parking parking structure may diminish privacy and visual character of the adjoining neighborhood. The poured the board should consider if additional landscape layering, facade mod facade modulation and enhanced screening is required. No anticipated traffic and green building compliance is required during the building permit process. The comprehensive plan encourages the location of dealerships in designated areas specifically south of Linton Boulevard between South Federal Highway and Dixie Highway. The comprehensive plan supports clustering of dealerships in specific areas and the comprehensive plan states new improvements in

development must comply with provisions within the adopted South Federal Redevelopment Plan. The plan required a structured public process that included a community workshop and planning and zoning board formal review. The city commission adopted the plan on September 20th of 2012. Per the redevelopment plan, the following are applicable standards. Buildings more than 300 feet wide and 25 feet in height require a minimum 50 foot setback and at least 70% of the building setback 75 ft. The proposed rear minimum setback is 60.17 ft. The residential properties are separated with a 50ft public rideaway Florida Boulevard. The board should consider the following. Is the proposed setback and rightaway adequate distance from adjacent res residential properties? Are the minimal projections and recessions sufficient to reduce the massive scale and uniform appearance of the parking structure? The other applicable standard is to the landscape buffer. The plan requires shade trees 18 ft minimum in height and 8t spread. 25 ft buffer wall set back 10 ft tree space 25 foot on center on both sides of the wall and a hedge planted outside of the wall. The plan's intention is to buffer the residential properties with 10t of on-site landscaping plus the rightaway landscaping landscaping and separation. The proposal includes new trees west of property west of the property line with a 25- ft spacing, additional trees with public right within the public rideway to comply with the 25- ft spacing. The wall will remain at the property line and a 25 ft buffer is provided on site after the wall.

The board should consider the following. Is utilizing solely public rightaway landscaping sufficient buffering for adjacent residences? And does the combination of on-site and right-of-way landscaping achieve the intent of the redevelopment plan? The project complies with the LDR setback standards and the maximum height for the building minus the stair towers. Pursuant to LDR section 434J3, stair towers may exceed max height by 8 feet and requires board action for approval. The outside display complies with the the the buffer and screening requirements. The project has service bay doors to the west, east, and south facades. Some doors are facing the residential zoning district and a few are facing south federal. The doors comply with the separation requirement and the two doors facing federal and the east residences are proposed to be vehicle drop off only. The board should consider the following. Is the proposed orientation appropriate due to the site constraints and proposed operations? Are the sufficient are there sufficient buffering and screening measures provided to minimize any potential any potential or vis sorry potential visual impacts on the adjacent neighborhood. Offloading requirements are as follows. Must be located to the rear 100 ft separation from the residential zone. And for this project, there is required to be three bays. A loading demand statement to reduce the numbers from the required three bays to just one was provided. And the proposed loading bay is to the rear and is separated 102 ft from the residential. The board should consider the following. Can one bay accommodate expected intensity without causing off-site congestion or circulation complex? And does the offloading adequately mitigate potential impacts related to

the noise, circulation, and proximity to nearby residences? The lighting complies. And please note, as this is a new construction and demo of the old site, the entire site must be brought to compliance. Overall parking is being met with a total of 161 spaces plus 273 inventory spaces. Type one and type two bicycle parkings are being met. However, the applicant has requested a waiver to the required bicycle showers from 8 to 1. The board should consider the following. Does granting the waiver align with the broader goals of the LDR which aim to support alternative transportation options and sustainability? Does the applicant's justification sufficiently consider the potentially diverse composition of the workforce? Is there something particular to the operational realities of auto automotive dealerships that warrants the granting of this waiver? And does granting a larger employer wave from waiver from this LDR requirement negatively impact the development of multimodal infrastructure? The second requested waiver is to reduce the two-foot minimum wall setback to maintain an existing wall to the rear on the property line. The proposal utilizes existing foliage on the public rideway to screen the wall. And the foliage includes the following. There's existing coconut trees, royal pincas, king Alexander palms, and a green button wood. The existing hedge is um or palms, I'm sorry, or palms. And there's going to be additional rams to be to fill in the gaps on the hedge. And the proposed includes the eagleston holly, I'm sorry if I'm butchering the names. And the gumbo limos, both are native species. The board should consider the following. Would the additional landscaping buffer

be necessary to provide adequate screening for the adjacent neighborhood or is the existing vegetation adequate screening? And is it better to maintain the existing landscape rather than remove and replace? The following are your required findings. It shall not it shall not adversely affect the neighboring area, not significantly diminish the provision of public facilities, create any unsafe situation, or result in the grant of a special privilege for landscape. The proposal includes the removal of three Christmas palms, a carrot wood, which is an invasive species and is not counted towards mitigation, and one royal palm. The removed trees meet mitigation standards with a 1:1 basis for the replacement of the four palms. The project will preserve 24 trees and relocate nine trees. The project has been re reviewed and complies in regards to the perimeter interior landscaping. The proposal complies with the LDR rear landscape buffer with a 25- ft buffer. However, as discussed before, the location and design of the buffer does not align with the redevelopment plan. The board should consider the following. Is compliance with the LDR landscaping sufficient or is a rearrangement of the buffer aligning with the redevelopment plan necessary for the architecture elevations? The minimum requirement is to show proper design concepts, express honest design construction and be appropriate to the surroundings. The height exception is as follow. The finished roof surface is at 44 ft. The parapit is at 48 ft and the stair tower is at 53 to 56 ft depending on the front and the back two stair towers. The board should consider if additional height is compatible with the surrounding. Overall, the showroom frontage achieves transparency and articulation. However, the garage presents a large monotone facade with limited relief and reliance

on a uniform gray color palette, resulting in a utilitarian appearance. While the project supports the automotive character of the corridor, it does not adequately mitigate visual impact on the adjacent neighborhood. The board should consider the following. Are refinements such as added facade articul articulations, variation in materials or enhance sorry or enhanced landscaping necessary to achieve a more compatible or contextually responsive development. Here are the elevations to the west and the east. The board should consider if the proposed east elevation adequately addresses the redevelopment plan intent to protect the livability and stability of the adjacent neighborhood. Here are the side elevations and these are your board motions. That concludes my presentation.

Thank you. Believe at this point the floor is open for any public comment if anyone wishes to speak. Seeing no one public comments closed. Would the applicant or the staff have any cross-examination or rebuttal? No cross rebuttal. No. Thank you, Mr. Rodriguez. None here. Okay. In that case, uh, board comment. Mr. Cat, how long have to follow Mr. Jar this time? Huh? Um, lucky guy.

I don't have a lot. I mean, I I I spent a little time over there and and I have a I've talked to a couple residents there. I actually have a family, my wife's family member lives nearby, so I've parked there even a couple times. And I I mean I I will tell you and I I don't agree 100% with this. Like I think you can give up one to gain another if they had to redo the landscaping. Like I don't think that would be necessarily terrible because there are some pros. The residents there right now. There's not it's not very walkable because it's a very narrow very narrow part of Florida Boulevard. This potentially could widen a little bit at least, you know, the grassy area and buffering where cars could potentially park, you know, do more parallel parking there. You could easily walk there. So, I'm not 100% sold on the um you know, maintaining it. I I get there. The reason is because you do have that mature foliage, so it does take a little bit of time to mature. Um, but it's the trade-off. Um, and I'm I didn't I don't see a big objection from the residents here to say, "Hey, we we don't want that." So, if the residents had come and said, "Hey, you know what? We want a better landscape plan than what they're providing." I think I would be um not apt to approve this. But because of that, I think I'm I'm fine with approving it. Um, I would I wish there was a way they could add some improvement just to cleaning it up a little bit and, you know, making it a little more walkable, but otherwise I'm fine with it. The one shower I think is fine. Like I said, you're selling cars because people aren't riding bikes.

Yeah. And um, to your point, you know, the landscaping will be cleaned up. Um, anything that's exotic or weeds and stuff will be uh, removed. Um, I actually used to live on Florida Boulevard. Um, just down I walked my dogs every day down Florida Boulevard. Um, so yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. Um, here in this location, you know, the elevation does change significantly. It does.

That was a question I had too was on drainage. Is there And I meant to ask the person that lives there. Do they have drainage issue? Because it looks like, you know, a major slope down. Is there any drainage issues there because of that slope? would, if they had to comply, would that fix the slope? I know that recently those properties on Florida Boulevard were just zoned into the flood zone where they were not a year ago.

Yeah. Um I I don't know about current conditions right there. Um I didn't really experience any where I was living. Um but I can say with this project, we do have a dry retention area immediately on the other side of the landscaping provided by the wall. Um, so you know, the site itself will um contain any storm water in those retention areas. That's that's rains on the dealership, but anything that rains on Florida Boulevard can't go the other direction cuz Yeah. I'm not sure where the the incline the other way goes. Never do.

Right. That's what I mean. But it's it's just making it necessarily. But if they had to redo the landscaping, that potentially could ease that. But again, I'm fine with it. I'm I'm not crazy about it, but I'm I'm about it. Okay, Mr. Char. Well, I'm I'm glad Mitch left me a lot of questions that I could ask I have no problem with either of the waivers. That That's fine. Uh I I would like uh as is my want to talk about the landscaping.

Mhm. Um, I noticed that none of the ground covers are native and you know, we have a lot of native ground ground covers that we could use that our our nursery people have. Um, I totally support that idea of the inside the wall uh plantings and and the trees that you have uh picked are almost all native. So that's that's really good. Um the so that's what I have on on uh landscaping. Um the well the one other thing is the red tip cocoa plums outweigh everything else by about 10 to one in terms of the numbers you're using here. So it really isn't a landscape plan. It's a cocoa plum plant in that regard. Um I don't know that we have our landscape architect here, but um I I believe those are utilized for the hedge.

Yes. Yeah. So, you know, it just provides consistency along the entire perimeter. Um and with the hedge, you have plantings closer together, so there's just more quantities. Um so, it's a nice response, but the variety is a good thing, too. So, and there's plenty of them. So, um, the loading bays going from 3 to 1. I don't understand why that is.

Um, it's an operational uh kind of requirement. It's just Kia has assessed their demands for loading and unloading. Um, they know their timing for when trucks are coming in. Um, typically they don't have, you know, more than one truck coming in at a time. Uh there was a loading demand statement that was provided as part of the application that spoke to that. Um but just operationally they there's only a need for one space at a given time.

Okay. If the applicant's only asking for one that sign um the height particularly the signs now when the presentation was made that was stated at there we go. Yes. uh and the elevators that that was an exception and my question is if that's an exception why don't we require a waiver for that? So this is one of the provision provisions in the code that specifies these types of exceptions on the table if it's meeting these the height requirements it's just subject to board approval.

Sorry Mr. chart is if you if I may also clarify it's exactly like the loading demand. So it's within the code section. So it's up to the board discretion to grant it if this is important for the elevation and the how the elevation is appearing and also the function of the height like why there is a height.

Okay. Well, it's also related to uh the massing and I'm sure Roger will get into this a little bit. Uh that the I I what was the phrase uh phrase facade articulation uh there there is none. There is very little. It's it it's going to I believe look like a big cement wall uh as I drive down Federal. So that that definitely concerns me. um this the massing the size is and I'm surprised that there's nobody from the community here to talk about that that that just does seem very very large. Uh it it's two feet or two stories or three stories now?

Three stories. Three stories. Three stories going to four. It's threetory parking. Oh, well that's why I'm messing. It's it's one story now. Correct. Oh, sorry. Two. I'm being told. Okay. That's what I thought. Um and it's going to four, right? If I count that right. It's a threestory parking structure. So that first where the rooftop on top of the base. So it's actually four stories in the air. It's 48 feet high. Excuse me. 48 ft high. Been having trouble with that. You have

because we're looking at a fourstory building. You keep talking about a threetory garage. Yeah. But it's on top of a one-story base. Correct. So you have the three stories of the garage and parking on the roof. Right. And then you've got the base which is the showroom just to clarify. So the base is the showroom. It has I don't have a floor plan of it but it has the other operations on the first floor. Then to the rear that is where the second floor of the parking garage starts. Then the third floor and then there's a rooftop. So ultimately in the back it's three stories but that bottom floor is ultimately used for the operations of the facility.

All right. So the bottom floor fits into the correct the first floor of the garage. Correct. But it's still the top of the garage is is still 48 ft. Correct. Correct. So the top of the garage, the finished floor is at 44. The parapit is at 48 ft. So that's what you're seeing from the viewpoint. And the stair towers go to the 53 to 56. 51. Yeah. 56. No, I appreciate that advice because that's that's exactly my concern as well. Um the that's all I've got, Mr. Chair. All right. Thank you, Mr. Pratt.

Um you know, I just I I agree with you know, Roger's the architect, so he he can talk about the architectural stuff. Um but I I do agree that there's not much articulation in the facade. I think it's Um, I think it's too high, especially with with people uh with residences right across the street. The height of the other one never concerned me because I'm sorry, the height of the prior issue never never concerned me because it was in the in the middle of it. It was surrounded on three sides by um by commercial property. Um, and when I drove by when I drove through and behind behind it, um, this afternoon, I mean, you could see the top two stories of the Ford garage. Um, and and the applicants application pretty half of it centered on the fact that this is what the Ford garage this is what the Ford dealership got. That's not what's before us today. I wasn't on the board when the Ford dealership went through. Um but and and then and several times in the staff presentation it was noted the concerns and um and I think the the one that that caught my ear the most was that it does not adequately mitigate this dealership from the neighborhood and that is um that's a big concern of mine. That's all. Thanks.

Can I ask one additional question to staff? Yes. Was residents noticed just with signage or were they mailed as well? No. So for PCB they were not noticed but for city commission they will be noticed. So this goes to commission. I thought yes this goes to city commission because it is a level four due to the waivers. Oh because of the waiverss. Okay. It's different than the last. Yes it is. Yes. Mr. Strong. Okay.

Yes. Really briefly. And know this may seem funny but the whole issue of these showers of the waiverss we did it once about a year ago for Ford. Uh and they had the same argument. Nobody's riding by six to work anymore. No need for all the showers. So, we did the waiver for one when they wanted zero. Same thing here. You all want one instead of eight because nobody's right to buy six of work. So, my issue is not so much with the the waiver, but we've already set the press that whenever somebody comes in and says that there's no need for the the nobody's riding the bicycles to work, no need for the showers, they're going to get the waiverss. And so I guess my question is to the the commission, why don't we take a look at that and determine, you know, because if you're requiring eight showers based on the number of bicycle slots that you have, but nobody's riding bicycles to work and we're granting these waiverss. At some point, it's not a waiver. It's an automatic.

Well, Mr. Strong, I just want you to like since you posed a question. I mean, you're just supposed to be looking at every application individually and like you're not really setting a precedent. I would say you're just looking at everything individually. I mean, feel free to We're looking at it individually, but you know, I see

we don't you don't want us to use the word president, but you know, that's what's happening because how do we justify telling somebody no when we've already told somebody yes based on the exact same argument? That's my concern. It's and again, it's not you all. just think the city needs to go back and take a look at the requirements for all of these showers when in fact whatever study they used previously is not coming to fruition because as we talked about in the last uh the last topic nobody thought people more people be riding bicycles but they're not. So Mr. chair cuz I responded. I would like to. Yeah. Okay. This is the bicycle co guy. Those

Let me do it and then then I'll give you the floor. Um cuz I was on the board. I was instrumental in getting them to put a shower in the Ford dealer. Right. Okay. And and where I my thinking differs from yours is that we're talking about a car dealer. People who work for car dealers don't ride bikes to work. I agree. People who work for other businesses

are more likely to and I'm a big believer in the nonautomotive transportation that we ought to be pushing a lot more walking bicycling and all that. And I think that the shower requirements as they are in the code are really good. But I think that automotive dealerships are different because because of the people that you get and now you can

Well, I would just like to add to that that when those items were put in the LDRs 10 years or so ago, the idea was build it and they will come. that if you never built bike paths, if you never had connection on bike paths, if you didn't have a place to store your bike and lock it in and and be able to change your clothes, uh then people will never do it. So, that's sort of trying to uh get ahead of the game and and encourage it.

And I will say that those were added within the last five to six years to require the showers for bicycle parking. I don't know that staff would agree with the car dealership's logic that we sell cars so people don't ride bikes. I mean, we have, I'm sure, a wide range of workers, people who are washing the cars, who are doing the dirty jobs. Not the salesman. I'm sure the salesmen aren't driving, but I don't know that I would necessarily agree with that. But to Mr. Shard's point, we have the requirement because we need the infrastructure if we really want to move towards a fully multimodal city that Okay. Yeah. Anything else? No, I mean I'm okay with it, but it's just, you know, instead of making them do eight, just Okay.

You know, set it at maybe two or three. Fair enough. Talk to the commission. Miss Ma, my comment will be briefer. No comment or question. Thank you, Mr. Co. Apparently, the architectural expert.

No, no, I really like the project. I I I'm not it. There's nothing that I wouldn't support on this project, including the architecture. I wouldn't change a thing. The height of the thing meets, you know, it they Why is it 48 feet? Because it can be. So the code says so. Why are the popups 8t above that? Because that's what the code says. They can be I think there's enough articulation on the building that our staff's not super critical of it. Public's not super critical of it. The landscaping in the back is phenomenal. Supportable. Totally supportable.

Okay. You have a couple things and know they're all on along the same lines. Um I don't I think the what Mr. Cop said. Yeah. The back side is basically not what you want to be looking at the way it is, but nobody's going to be looking at it. If the landscaping is in it and and I drove down there and I looked at this lot and I looked at the Ford lot and you really Yeah, you can see kind of the top of the Ford garage, but you really don't see it. So, I don't think that's a big issue. Um the thing I noticed in the difference between the two um places is that landscaping that's along the wall on the public rightway side behind Kia needs some work.

I mean yeah I appreciate you're going to keep the mature things but somebody's got to go in there and do some landscaping. It looks really scraggly. Yeah. And and that will be done as part of Okay. And it's just it's I agree cuz the Ford ones maybe they're not as tall but they're really pretty cuz they're new. Somebody maintain but somebody did it. Yes. That needs to be done. Um how are we on not illuminating the neighborhood from the car dealer as far as the lighting? I mean we talk, you know, nobody's talked about light pollution.

Yeah. Is there are is there adequate mitigation of the lights to prevent um light pollution in the Tropic neighborhood? So the lighting does comply with the 468 lighting section and it also complies with the requirements in the 4410 the automotive dealership which has further requirements. So they're all full cut off. They all have their specific requirements within um if they're the the um parking area. So, they all comply with that.

Okay. The setbacks don't bother me. The wall I think should stay where it is because of the landscaping. Um, and the other thing is, and I guess there's no way around it, but the bay doors open to the residential neighborhood, but then again, that's behind the wall as well in the landscaping and and those bay doors are just for the drop off of vehicles. Um, it's not for service. The service bay doors are located on the north side. So, yeah, I think I mean it's definitely going to be an improvement looking at the old Kia buildings. It's it's time for a new one. Do we have a motion or do we have more question?

Just one quick question to staff. They're responsible for the upkeep of that current landscaping there. Correct. That's not being upkept. Oh yeah. So now the residents if they're like you said it looks scraggly. They should be calling code and saying, "Hey, clean this up." I think that's a good point. Is that correct? They're they're they're responsible for that. Even though they're not putting new buildings in there boulevard like behind the wall is like the city right of ways.

So the city's responsible for maintaining it but even though the city right away it should be they should be responsible for maintaining that shrubbery because had they moved the wall and put the shrubbery there they'd be responsible. I I mow my our association mows lawn on on the on a on a military trail in the middle of the road because that was part of the the rightway. So to me it how can we ensure that they are responsible for that and I think they should be because I think every I mean I'm pretty sure Ford is maintaining that.

Yeah. And um I typically I've seen that handled when a developer is putting in landscaping on city property through some sort of maintenance a maintenance agreement. Um I don't know if that's required. I can speak to the city attorney's office about that, but we have no problem maintaining uh that section of right ofway. I would I would think that ought to be a condition a condition just that there's an agreement that the that the applicant will maintain the I do I mean I have I don't I'm not entirely sure that can be a condition because you only have the scope that you have right here.

We are we're giving them a waiver to that wall. So as part of that condition to that waiver is that they must maintain the current landscaping. Staff seems to be okay with that. And I see another land use attorney in the back saying, "I'm leaning towards redundancy, but the staff here seems to not have an issue. We do do landscape maintenance agreements, but that's usually for

in the CBD rather than this district. So, I mean, we do have the landscape maintenance standard. So, if this is part of the approved site plan, then they're obliged to do it. I'm so It may be redundant, I think, would be my concern. It is a it's a recommendation regardless. Yeah. Regardless going to go to the commission and we're happy to maintain it. So you're okay with condition? Uh condition. Yeah. Requiring us to maintain that area. That would be fine. Yeah. No issues there. However, that mechanism is done.

Great. So is there any possibility in a motion here? You want to make the motion again? I can go get them. Oh, Mr. Bala, you you're used to always making these motions. Maybe because you always have a condition to add.

Yeah. Yeah. You do with You don't like adding conditions. I'm all about adding the conditions. So, I move approval to recommend to the city commission approval of a level four site plan modification with architectural elevations and landscape plan for Kia del Rey to demolish the existing building at 2255 South Federal Highway. construct a twostory dealership with a three-story parking garage to the rear and two associated waiverss. One, reduce the required number of bicycle showers and two reduce the required setback for the rear wall subject to conditions of maintaining the landscaping on the east side of the barrier wall by finding that the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan and meets the criteria in the land development regulations.

I'll second that. Okay. Motion by Mr. Katz, second by M. Malikica. We have the roll, please. Price Patton, no. Mitch Katz, yes. Dedra Strong, yes. Roger Cope, yes. Jim Chard, yes. Judy Malikica, yes. Gregory Snider, yes. Thank you very much for your time. Appreciate it. That was six to one. I'd like to say Susanna's presentation was excellent as usual. And you can start cleaning up that landscape even before you start construction as a as a nice tribute to the neighbors there.

Put that in the conditions. All right, we are up to see. [Music] All right.

Good evening again, board members. Uh I would like to enter file number 2025-058 uh to provide a recommendation to the city commission regarding the utilization of the masonry modern architectural style at the property located uh at 466-506 Northeast Fifth A. Um and the applicant is here to present. Thank you. Um exparte Mr. Go. Um, drove by the site. I think that's it. Same, Mr. Strong. Same. Drove by. Mr. Pet,

drive by. And I uh Yeah, I drove by. None. I drove by. He even pulled into the parking to turn around or take a look. All right, sir. I drive and a stop. A drive and a stop. Yeah.

Great. Thank you. Good evening, board members. Thanks for having us today. My name is uh Haimey Mayo with H&M Architecture, 143 South Swinton Avenue, Delray Beach. We've been uh architects in the city of Delray Beach for over 20 years. Um designed several buildings in and around, been presented numerous awards from the city for some of our work and and happy here to present today 466 Northeast 5th Avenue. Um I'm going to start with the site plan just to kind of give you an idea of the context of where we are around. We're between third and fifth street on the east on the west side of northbound federal. Um it's the client has a has put together these uh four parcels here that as you can see in this in this next slide. Oops, I went one too many. What happened here? I'm sorry.

All right. So, here's the site plan. um bordered to the east with a federal highway and and the angled property line to the west parallel to the railroad tracks um on the north side. Some small lots and the same on the south side. So, we're kind of a a pretty large conglomeration of several lots along this stretch of of this block between third and fifth or fourth and fifth, I'm sorry. And surrounded next to us are a bunch of smaller lots, bunch of smaller little buildings. On the right, you can see exactly who's around us. Um, directly across from us is Publix and almost aligned perfectly with the entry feature there and a couple of the smaller little buildings to the north and south of us. And then the very uh stark railroad tracks to the west. And um I bring that up just to see how we're responding to the site in terms of how we shape the building, how we oriented the building and how we're exposed um express the east and west facades kind of responding to exactly what we're we're facing there and and to promote you know obviously the the pedestrian passageway there and and try and avoid the train tracks if you can say that. So, um, one of the things that we try to do to, uh, to kind of reduce the length of the building, being that we are four lots on this small stretch of of this block, we try to break up the building. So, it feels a little bit more like what's in and around us and what's probably going to be developed in and around us on either side, which is smaller lots, smaller buildings. And we accomplish that with these two civic areas. we're only required to have one, but there's more of a of a private civic area on the north side where the residential entry is and then one on the south side that goes to the secondary egress stairs. Um the the one at the north end is almost aligned with you can see the the entry feature to the to the public. So you can kind of see the

pavers there. So, we did set back the the main entry to to the residential entrance to kind of promote that pedestrian walk and and we have some better pictures of of those two civic areas that are coming up. But this site plan kind of uh shows you the ground floor plan is indicative of how we broke up this long site with these with these three major components on the ground floor, which is which is the retail And this is kind of an area with the proposed building on top of it. You can see we're kind of uh new to this area. This this property is a little bit awkward being that it tapers down from from north to from south to north. And and if you can see, even as you continue south, it kind of tapers down to nothing. So again, we have a a very long building here. And we're trying to trying to break it up so we don't kind of overwhelm not only the street facade but also, you know, overwhelm the pedestrian area, which is why we have those two uh civic spaces at either end to kind of uh to to respond to the to the built environment around us a little bit and the future developments in order not to overwhelm that street to we reduce the building length while while reinforcing the streetscape. So, we we separated I'm sorry. Let me go back. Oh, boy. I keep hitting the wrong back button. So, so we separated the the retail from the residential. It's pretty clearly with the with the main drive. You know, it's a oneway in, one way out. Um the southern entrance is the way in. The northern entrance is the way out. And that also kind of mitigates a little bit of the the car traffic, cars coming in and out of both entrances. And it really promotes the uh the pedestrian activity

going on there and keeping it away from all the uh from the vehicular traffic. Scared to hit this thing. Here's just a a 3D rendering of of the front of the building facing uh Federal Highway and the the ground floor is all the retail and the ground floor and the balcony above which is to the residential are both parallel to to Federal Highway. On the back side, the west side you'll see respond to the property line. The angle of that and that same angle that's on the back on the uh oh man, I'm going to get this here in a second. The angle of the property line on the west is actually the angle that you see for everything that's above the residential here. That twotory um massive stone sculpture. The all the balconies are also at that same angle. So, we're kind of responding to a little bit of of the northbound federal and it provides a lot of movement angles and fenestration in this in in the front facade while not overwhelming the resident uh the retail below. And another way we broke it up was by having that large balcony above the residential where we're separating the residential the with the retail not just in the x-axis by the two drives and separating the uh the entry stairs at both ends but also vertically by not having anything right above us and then by changing the angles of all the balconies and all the uh and that twotory stone mass that's that's meant to kind of uh to to represent what's left after we carved it out. So being that it's modern masonry, the the whole idea of is it that it's one big block and you you start carving out sections of it. So what you see in the the the twotory mass that kind of vertically integrates the three stories above the retail is kind of meant to represent what's left or what we didn't carve out. But I think the angles on

that and the angles on the balcony kind of gives it a lot of movement and and some interest to the to the building while also reinforcing the retail and separating the retail from the residential and enhancing the pedestrian scale because almost want to make the retail read like it's one story all by itself. And in the in the Y direction, you know, we're separating it again with the different balconies. At the top you can see the the variations in different types of balconies. No no no two balconies are the same in the same vertical column if you can see. So we kind of reinforce the three retail spaces with vertical integration of what's what's directly above it and and the three canop. Let me see this. And at the top here you can see the the three different balcony types. It's all with different materials, different sizes, different angles, different depths, and it's it's quite a big depth. And then again, this is the the the main entry tower here. And it's set back to create this little civic area here in the front. So, it doesn't impose on the retail that you see here along the ground floor and introduced a hierarchy of this feature simply by the height. It's a lot taller, but it's set back to kind of promote a little bit more of the pedestrian and provide us more open space on the ground floor. And you can kind of see that right here. So, these are the three retail spots. And then in front here, it's set back from the retail just to create an open space and and articulate a little bit more. You know, the articulation doesn't always have to be in the walls, the buildings, and the glass. You can do it with the site plan. And by opening it up, I think it promotes a lot more uh pedestrian activity along this along the street. So, these just a few more shots kind of showing you that articulation, all the

angles I was referring to before about the balconies, how it's responding to its built environment around it, angled, so it adds a little bit of interest. And it's actually the angle of the property line on the west side, and it's kind of facing the southeast, which is what everyone wants. Um it's it's I don't want to say it's facing the the northbound US1, but it is kind of at least uh bringing that to to the attention that you know there is a street coming the other way. And it again it provides a lot of movement. So it's not one just big long big long building even though here you can see it's it's broken up by the entry drive on the uh this is the the vehicular entrance side, right? So, we're kind of breaking up the the residential here and the retail over here with the two drives at either end. Oop, sorry. This is just a shot of those pedestrian areas here. Um, huge large overhangs and and especially at the main entrance for the residential. And again, this is kind of that secondary civic space. It's not required open space. 10-ft overhang. um also further enhance the hierarchy with you know 40 feet of vertical glass coming up through here very simple strong forms good proportions sorry look let me cheat with my notes here so I kind of spoke a little bit about the articulation along the front and I think this is very representative of this so we're looking at the uh the south elevation here. And that's the civic open space. You can see how deep it goes into the site. The site's not very deep, but we try to bring that civic space as deep into the site as possible. And it kind of terminates on the other stair tower that you see there to kind of put a hard stop to this building as it turns the corner. You can see that done with the

articulation of the deep eyebrow at the top, the the glass balcony, and there's actually five different planes, you could say, from the front of the building all the way back to the main building wall, which the the vertical accent panel that divviate divvies up the uh the three retail spaces. Then there's the the masonry balcony, the metal, the glass balcony, and then finally the main building wall. And then we kind of turned the corner here as well with uh by upturning the the slab of the balcony and kind of creating an end to this. And then we really kind of wanted to terminate that that that portion of the building by having the concrete ibride die into the into the concrete into the uh into the stair tower there in the corner. [Music] So, the the building entry. Oh, I'm sorry. I I skipped the spot here, but that's all right. So, this is again just another blow up of that corner, showing you how we're turning the corner and articulating it with with a lot of details, a lot of movement, a lot of angles, and kind of terminating it on the vertical glass. That's the secondary uh egress stairs there. And and it's also again, it's the and so railroad behind us. So, even though we're turning the corner, we're we're kind of stopping it hard with these two towers that we have at either end of the building. Um, you can see how deep some of these balconies are, especially the one right above the retail and and everyone gets a little bit of a different balcony. Um, again, just emphasizing the the streetscape here and and the civic space. You can kind of see the axis of that civic space terminates on that vertical glass wall. Oh boy. On the vertical glass wall here. This is kind of the termination of the civila civic space. I mean, we've integrated the building pretty good with the civic

space. Literally even kind of turning the building into a bench to integrate the civic with the building and obviously promote the pedestrian traffic. We have bike racks, water fountains, pet friendly drinking stations and areas here underneath covered overhang with the tall glass to kind of re-emphasize the base and the verticality of the of the retail space. This is the the northern facade. And again, it's um this is the the main entry feature that's set back from from the the retail to kind of reinforce that secondary civic space in front of Oh, I'm sorry. This remote's giving me troubles. In front of the stair tower here. And and this right here is really just a stair tower elevator. Behind here is the parking garage. And then to kind of follow with the modern masonry, we we carved out a huge chunk out of the corner. And you can see the very modern stylistic representation of the of the two white main features of this facade. But then we really kind of blew away the corner. And again to kind of respond a little bit that to the back there now you're going to see is the uh is the railroad tracks. And you can kind of see the saw to effect not only on the front but also on the back. And in order to kind of respond to the back a little bit and to avoid it being flat, you're going to see how we Well, again, this is uh I'll just go back a little bit here, but obviously this is this is that corner here we referring to where we took out a big chunk. And these are large um balconies here as well. They're projecting not only inwards but also obviously outwards. We carved in and popped it out. And then this is that secondary civic space which is really the the entrance to uh to the main residential. And this is actually on

access if you keep going across that street to the uh public's entrance that I was referring to before. And then this is the rear elevation facing the railroad tracks. And we played a little trick with trying to make it look almost bent as you get to the back. So again, this uh this is that stair tower that terminated the the Civic on the other side. So we kind of turn telling the story of what's on the back of this, right? We kept this same angle here and then it kind of dies into a little bit more of the stark elevation, but even these are in the middle here are recess balconies opened in there and kind of telling the story of what we're looking at, which is really a railroad. Again, there's not much to view over here, but we try to bend this uh bend this rear elevation here, as you can see, to to to not only create a little bit of movement here, but also to to transport to cut across in front of that stair tower with his balconies and kind of provide some solids and voids as you go along those balconies. And then get very literal and very simple with the with what you can see. These nine windows, the again, the ones in the middle are actually balconies recessed in there. It's the railroad tracks. It's noisy. It's loud. And then those huge large balconies all the way at the end kind of anchoring the end of the building here. And this is just uh a combination of some of the similar building styles and ours. And you can see it's very compatible, especially the second one from the top on the left over here and our building. And I think uh it's going to be a nice addition to this somewhat defunct area of a federal highway here. But it is a little bit of a of a weird site and it was uh

difficult to make it work given the shallowess of it and and trying to create a lot of uh depth and and and interest to the elevations and at the same time you know promote the pedestrian activity and provide a little bit of privacy as well to the uh to the residential. And that is the end of my presentation. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. Could I ask a real quick question, sir? Sure. Where is that Valhalla project? Which one? The Valhalla, the second on the left that you said you're similar to. Where is that? That's a good question.

Oh, all right. Thank you. Never mind. That's it. The Where is a Google image reverse search? Oh, I think it was reference from from staff gave us that reference. Is that Oh, maybe staff knows where it is. Is that southeast first?

So, good evening again board members. Uh, I would file number 2025-058 for architectural style masonry modern recommendation to uh city commission. I'll try not to repeat what the applicant said like it's almost.7 acres site. Uh it's a mixeduse development. Ground floor is three u stores retail and they have 14 um dwelling units a variety of one two three bedrooms. It's in the CBD central core subd district um existing on the site uh because our the masonry modern style two things are important for us to look at uh tonight. One is the context what's surrounding. Second is how good is the execution of the style as it is listed in the architectural design guidelines. So it's not only a voting on how beautiful it is, how good it is, but also how good it is implementing and executing the architectural design lines as approved and listed in the architecture design lines uh design guidelines of the CBD. So I will give a little bit on the context. What is existing right now on the site are five buildings and it's colored labelled and you can see I just give you a moment to look at it developed around 60 to 70 years ago the five buildings 1951 the oldest one and 1967 the most recent one um this will all be demolished and will be replaced by the proposal

I tried to provide some sort of uh facade like elevation. So the site is actually highlighted in red and then if you look um look towards the um west. So norththeast fifth a and then the five buildings surrounding the site are actually photos like that here. South uh CBD and then the second one is office and then retail and then personal service and the last one on the block is a medical office. This is how it looks like all of it one story in height. Um our um structure is 3 plus and this will fit here. It's at the back is Florida East Coast Railroad and then face it facing the Publix across the road from Northeast Fifth A and there is a a parking area uh bordering the Northeast Fifth A for Publix. Again, the CBD guidelines gives us the criteria on how to evaluate and assess the site. And this style like in May 2023 city commission decided that they want to see two particular styles of the seven approved styles. One of it is the masonry remodel. So tonight is a voting on whether or not the applicant can utilize the masonry modern style and then if you decide that for example yes so that means it will go to the city commission for final action and then the whole site plan will come back before PCB again if this is the case. So most importantly this is from a

direct extract from the architectural design guidelines. So there is the upper part is important how the parapits are being introduced recessed windows and the windows could be subdivided into basically um right angles like um no circles no uh curves uh in it. The composition of the building, how is it composed, how solid it is, smooth stock, uh railing, could be metal, eyebrows, the identification of the entrance and more importantly also the articulation of a base, middle and top. And this is again like more details into it. And then this is direct extract from the architectural design guidelines. and then back again to the uh Highland. So th those are actually masonry modern styles that are approved in the city prior to the requirement of the city commission to actually approve the particular masonry model but this was approved and then this is a direct also extract from the development uh projects map. I want to the site is highlighted in a red circle and I am giving an example of four masonry modern projects. The one top left is the link. You saw this last PCB meeting. Now this was approved by PCB and then also approved by city commission. Last time when you saw it, it was for the entire site plan where you recommended continuous. And then uh top right is the edge of pineapple grove. This is a masonry modern style approved

prior of the requirement of May 2023. So it's also approved. Um and then the 109 project is approved by city commission for the utilization of masonry model and still with us like still staff are still working with them on the site plan. This will come before the PCB board in a later stage when they are ready. The fifth uh Avenue town homes is already approved uh also for mason modern style by the PC by the sprab and by the city commission and the site plan is already approved. They are in building terms. I just wanted to give you some context into what we did in the last few years and again I'm uh the proposal is 14 dwelling units and the request is to utilize the masonry modern style. The staff report have digested the proposal and provided some extensive you know analysis on the style and how it is complying or the areas where it it falls short. Um basically we utilize the same sequence and the framework of analysis provided by the architectural design guidelines. So the massing and the facade the balanced rhythm uh at that is appearing on the east side is not really reflected on the other sides or most all of it. Uh the architectural elements um the color palette that they are using is really matching what should be uh appearing in the masonry model. However, the cladding and the veneer is not really a good friend with a masonry modern, if I may say. Style is something

different, just hybrid uh roof corners. Um the identification of the entrance could be better. But again, this is still in progress. Like you're not really voting on the site plan. It's just the applic we are still working with the applicant on the site plan development is just the style like can a mystery model happen here can it happen like that you can still provide also recommendations as you wish because we are still working um with the applicant the context is important as I mentioned so this is the first redevelopment of a building in this block. This is why it's important. So consideration for the board today. Is this appropriate for this location? Is this a good execution for the masonry model? This is for you to vote on today. And these are the bold motions uh in front of you and I'm ready for any question. Thank you,

Mr. Thank you. Um, at this time, is there any uh members of the public who wish to speak? Seeing none, public comments closed. Is there any uh cross-examination or rebuttal from either the applicant or the staff?

No, I think I think we're good. I mean, we've taking their comments into consideration. We've been working on this for for a couple years now. Um, you know, we're not coming in here looking for any any deviations, any waivers. we're we're meeting all the site plan requirements and LDR regulations. Um there might be a little bit of disagreement in maybe the the specifics on masonry modern, but I think we've achieved a good job of it and the articulation and the definition of of the entry features and and really enhancing the the pedestrian and the retail more so than anything, which is what this part of the the town really needs. you know, it's it's not far away from Atlantic here and and there's really no one walking here because it's kind of barren, very small little shops. And I think this will be a a nice link to kind of bring um the north part of of Federal closer into interacting with Atlantic in a in a pedestrian manner.

Great. Thank you. Thank you. At this point, may I just add one thing? Thank you, Mr. Schneider. Um just a little correction with the applicant. you said like you were you've been working on this for a couple of years maybe from your end that's important for me to highlight that we have this since June we had an application that lapsed that was submitted earlier and then this was closed and then the reactivation so we have this since June this year and then this is the second submission September just for clarification thank you oh okay thank you good point

yep So, Mr. Cob, I'm going to let you go first.

Wow. Just for clarity, the two things you're asking us to um make a judgment on are whether whether or not masonry modern is a is a style that is appropriate for this site. That's easy. The second one's much harder. has he achieved an adequacy or an excellence with his interpretation of that style? Now, before you answer that or I'm not even sure that was a question, but if if we say yes to the first part, is he locked into this design or does this design continue to evolve?

Yeah, I'm happy to answer that. So if you say yes to the missionary modern style, let's say to both criteria, this design is not blocked. Of course, okay, it will come back again. It's evolving. It's just the style like let's say this is not um a classical style like so you he's not doing classical, he's doing a masonry model. Thank you. You still can provide recommendations as you wish. Yeah.

Thank you. So, I have a hard time saying it's not appropriate to to I mean, he and his client have decided this is the category that they're going to, you know, he has seven categories of architecture. We're probably the only city in in the in the world that have to be categorized architecturally in seven categories of architecture. Imagine if Franklidd Wright came to Del Rey and we said, "Buddy, you got to be in the Arcte style or the Anglo-Caribbean style. He would laugh and run away." So, here we are. We we've we've predetermined seven styles of architecture that every guy has to present to his client. Not an easy task. So, I'm pretty sure they've decided, as many other people have, this is a an open category that is up for a lot of interpretation. And that's exactly why city commission has said there's so much of that happening. We now want to regulate it one more step. And we want to see that come to us so they can they can be much more aware of an exa an hopefully an excellent example of it because there's a lot of crap out there that's masonry modern and I think that's like the like the you know there a couple of them were shown as examples because what what has happened in the past that that developers are relying on paint and really cheesy easy articulation to try to achieve the masonry or or the detailing of of something. And and so I think what we're globally trying to figure out is how can we challenge architects to

create as best a product within that masonry modern style as possible. So that's that's I think where we're at. So, your staff report is probably the most eloquent architectural critique I've ever written uh read in the city of Del Rey. You did a killer job on on your analysis of his product

and laced in there every paragraph you're relatively critical of him the style falling a little short of what you apparently think it should be. So, I'm perfectly happy sending them to the city commission, but it seems like there's a lot of work that needs to be done. So, do you want us to get into that tonight? I don't

It goes to commission regardless of if it's an approval or denial, a recommendation of approval or denial. You can always feel free to like add your comments, you know, recommendation of approval with X comments or denial with X comments. I don't see how we could not recommend the style. That would be my personal opinion. Rebecca can say why we have to recommend it.

Well, no. I think Mr. Ibrahim was about to chime in on this. So, while we have the seven prescribed styles that were shown historically to be present within the downtown with the later edition of Masonary Modern, anyone could come in like if someone wanted to put the Prague dancing house here, they could. they would just have to go through the process to get that alternate style approved because we really do value the ability of architects to show um their skills. But I'll let Mr. Ibrahim take over here.

We add to this. So there is a a way for applicants to pick an an alternative uh architecture style. We this board has approved before a Miami modern style and they can do as long as it comes before the board and then you see like this new style right could be approved of course. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't want to overlook that but that's

Yeah. And that I don't know if that's the only project that has ever gone through that process, which is the Ray the Ray downtown decided there they were so committed to their style, which they deemed Miami modern or Miami something or tropical Miami that they There's another one.

Yeah. So, they went through a 2-year conditional approval process to to defend that style, and they got it approved, and I think it's one of the most beautiful buildings in the city. So, I'm not saying there is an opportunity. Frankly Lloyd, right? I was going to wait around for two years to do that. We So, but your critique, you you know, your analysis is everything from critical of the front. were the the front door on the ground floor, you know, and so and the articulation uh of the stone and the use of this that and the other. And you're you're it's two different subjects in my opinion. You're 100% right, but he's 100% right in having the the privilege to seek this style. So, I don't know what else. I don't want to spend three hours beating up the act. Yeah, let they'll figure it out. I I I would say if it comes back exactly like this, I would be critical of it because he is the city has been the staff has spent months and months and months reviewing this stuff. So,

if I could interject, I understand that they've spent months and months on this, but again, we spent years on this. I totally understand. And I think some of his comments are a little bit critical. And I think I got a great rebuttal to him. It's a we're talking about one man's opinion. I'm talking about, you know, a team of 15 architects in my office that have re-reviewed this and might have a different interpretation. It kind of stinks that they make us hold to a style. I mean, we're architects. We're meant to create style, not to mimic and be other buildings. So, is this a perfect masonry modern? If you see the first picture he put up of masonry modern, if we put that up on this property, I think we'd get kicked out of town. So, we provided something that's that's very different. It's it falls within Masonry Modern, but the details of it, I think, are are a lot better than the interpretations of what we have from Masonry Modern in this town now.

So, you there's a tremendous amount of cool things that are happening in your project with with with the the angled site and how you've interpreted how you've brought that into the plan and you've skewed the back of the building to to kind of reflect some motion and think. You've done that in other buildings and that's really cool and successful and most appreciated. Uh, and it's a very s I I I I looked into every not every I looked into a half a dozen architectural history books that I happen to have. You will not find the term masonry modern and any architectural history book.

None.

Not one. So, we have created a two-word category that has opened up the floodgates. Every building in that any of us design has masonry in it. Is it modern? It was built yesterday. That makes it modern. So, so there you go. I've just had that's a masonry modern building. So now the creative liberal art aspect of making it a beautiful piece of architecture is the challenge and your interpretation of it should be your interpretation of it.

I'm just sensing a a critique from him that seems to have some a little bit of merit, more than a little bit of merit, some merit. So, so while he says it's weak on where the front door is, you're going to have to I I think it's the complete opposite. I think it's a strong connection to help the streetscape of it. So, we'll get into that apparently at some other time. Could we could we push that door all the way to the front? Yes. And then you're going to overwhelm the retail. You're going to overwhelm the pedestrian and you're going to bring all the people into the front door of the residences. So, my last Franklidd Wright reference, he wouldn't want you to find the front door. Yeah. So, so

and I mean it's articulated. It's got a 10-ft deep canopy in the front of it that does come out to the front of the retail. So, I think I mean you and your team Yeah. I think maybe one analogy is you're 75% there.

Yeah. And we'll continue working with them. He's been great to work with and I'm not going to say he's some of the things he's pointed out. I probably would agree with him. maybe a little bit with the windows, maybe the way we turn the corner on the building entry feature, we could add some more mullians, but it was pretty critical and and we have already gone through this a couple times and I know you said it's only in June, but before you got there, we had submitted this and then there was some issues with the applications. We we've gone through like three or four times already here and we'll continue working with Rafi. It's been a pleasure working and regardless, we're just here tonight for approval of the style, not the design. So, I don't want to like too much on this design.

It is the style and it's do we meet the style is the second part of it. So it's the design and the style. I'm giving you overwhelming appraisal support for the first half of that. Yeah. But cautiously suggesting that there take it take it the last yard. You know you're on the one yard line. Try to try to get to the end zone. Yeah, let me um

just for the records, we have been working like diligently with the applicant. He's responding to many many of the comments and we have negot like lots of discussions and good discussions. We are reaching there and when we are thorough in our analysis doesn't mean necessarily critical. So we are happy to bring it better and better and there is like in architecture as you know very well there is no optimum solution there is no perfection so that but there is also a point that we really need to stop designing. So right now we are designing so there's a room for improvement. As long as there is a room for improvement let's do it and then before we draw a line and say like that's it. It's fixed and then it's approved. Let's build it like that. So now there is a room. So just wanted to add this.

Okay. I'm in favor of the I'm in favor of the the choice of style over overwhelmingly you know. Okay. be thank God he didn't come in here with an art deco project. I will say Chris Brown would be proud of you tonight with your history on on architecture. He would have been overwhelmed and and doing back well done. Let's move on. I think yeah just you got it. Sorry.

I think it's a beautiful building. I'm like so sad to see commercial buildings go away and even though it's mixed use, you know, um condos come up all along federal, but um that's kind of what I have to say, Mr. Strong. Okay, Mr. B.

Yeah. Um I I echo Roger's Roger's concern. I'm glad you're both you're willing to to you know seek a little bit more common ground and work to improve it or um at least reach more a little more of a common ground. Um I do recall that Anthia said that she left a little legal room in the description. So if like Frank Giri came to town he could build what he wanted to but um and then let me just finish one the seventh category the Franklidd Wright quote which I think I've said to Roger many times. Frank Wright once said, "A doctor can bury his mistakes. An architect can only plant ivy." You know what? I Oh, funny. Exactly.

So, yeah. I mean, this is it's an important place and and and I think we all want it to look as look really be a handsome, incredible building. So, thanks, Mr. J. Um, I too want to talk about Rafiki's uh analysis because it was not only eloquent, it was on point and I thought that the sort of subtle crit subtle criticism uh he made of Mr. Mayo's design uh was certainly worth taking into account. Uh I wrote a couple of them down uh and I'd like to hear your reaction. Sure. Uh deeper facade. Well, well, well. We're not they're not discussing sir.

Well, we're discussing what's going before the city commission, but they're not this is we're discussing art masonry. What we what we have to say is is it okay to use masonry mire and is this building meet the criteria of masonry m and if you want to say they're I think you should be say what you want to say but we don't need to design the redesign the building. I'll give you an example. I'm not I'm not trying to redesign it. I I think there's I'll give you an example. A meeting the last meeting you were at we sent a project back. That project came to us for approval this step, right?

We approved it here as they could do mason moderny. That was where the smoke cigar shop is. It came back to us last time with the changes. We weren't happy with them and we sent them back. So that's So we right now we're really just saying mason runner or not. Then the next step we can that's when we really start we tear them up. Well, we can do this we can do this all over again. But my my thought was that that the work that the staff has done and your cooperation with them uh is u very very impressive and that some of these things like uh the shading devices uh whether or not there is enough shade and maybe there is I don't know but the the question was

sure that that probably be something that I I I probably would disagree with. I mean, I don't think you're going to find deeper balconies or deeper concrete eyebrows anywhere up and down Federal based on this. You're looking at it here maybe a little bit 2D. Some of my pictures kind of depict the the the shading devices a little bit better than than this shot does, but there is a 10-ft eyebrow in the front. The there's a six-foot canopy in above the retail. The the eyebrows are about six feet deep on every floor. So, I mean, the there is a lot of shading devices. The twotory stone sculptural the the well proportioned twotory provides tons of shade. Just looking at this you can kind of see the shadows. I got it

and effects that have been made at the vertical pan. What's what about the cladding? The cladding the thin cladding. I don't know how how Rafi can can tell whether the cladding's thin or not. That might be a two-ft deep block there. But I think that was an indirect response to adding asking us to add some more stone or add some richness in materials.

You mentioned veneer like so you know like the cladding is not usually something that goes with the masonry modern like and especially like the uh texture of and the color of the stone that you used and you you said it's veneer like this is how you described it. And back to the shading which is I don't disagree with you there are again room for improvement like the south and north elevations there are like you know large solid areas and then even the use of circular windows this is not something um common with the mystery model I'm not

so we can work with this together I think the chair wants to say something can we just talk about Yes. Two things. Sure. Is it okay to use a masonry modern? Is this building a masonry modern building? I think they answer yes. I'm ready for that. That's the question before. Any comments regarding that? Any comments about how to redesign the design will be when the site plan comes back? There you go. Okay. In the meantime, the staff and the applicant are going to keep working on it and when we get the site plan, we're going to get the absolute best product the two of them can put out.

So, we won't have to worry about it at that point. But in the meantime, do you have any Yes. more comments? Yes. I don't. Please go ahead. I haven't had any yet. I know.

First of all, I I want to echo what Miss Monica said about the commercial uh space. We're we're we're losing 8,000 square ft of of um retail space in our commercial core, replacing it with three little um uh things that, you know, we're losing that. We're also losing that property tax income. And I'm going to bring it up every time we get one of these convert. Let's convert all of our commercial to residential. Then the governor next year is going to put on the ballot to get rid of. So those condos are not going to be paying property taxes. So, that's thousands upon thousands of dollars of property taxes that are going to go away. Um because we're not going to have commercial space and how we're going to pay for our police and fire and all these other things that we want. I don't know. Um we just can't constantly take all of our commercial space and turn it into more condos and more condos and more condos. The question of modern masonry is and I think and I I agree Roger your your comments about like this is designed like the architect goes somebody came buy property and says hey what can we build there here's the seven guidelines and I think the city I think the reason why they added that step was not so much to be critical of it because every single project said we're just going to choose Mason Mary and they're close to redesigning those guidelines guidelines, right? And I believe Rebecca, aren't we at looking at the guidelines?

We are looking at them. We are looking at them to see if there should be something more specific that would really make it more of a style that we want rather than having this process every time, but to give it a little more definition, right? Because it's right now it's just everyone's coming to us. Everyone gets approved, goes to the commission, it gets approved, and then we're going through this this cat and mouse game every single project. Um, I did look up the Valhalla, by the way, for you and it, um, it's not approved yet. It's it's the style might have been approved, but according to the city website, it's still under review as of 2022. And it's 235 Southeast Fifth Avenue. I know it's not built. I can tell you that. The island is built. It's built.

Oh, yeah. This 235 Southeast Fifth. I don't know. You look it up on your website. It says under review. We'll check. I'm just curious, but it's been through, I think, and I I think it may have been and there the condos are under precision. So, maybe I mixed it with something else. It just I I was curious what it was, too, cuz I never saw it in front of us. Would you like a motion? I would love to.

Much done. Yeah. Um uh recommendation of approval to allow the utilization of a masonry modern architectural style on a proposed four-story mixeduse development within the central uh business development CBD at 466-506 Northeast 5th Avenue pursuant to land development regulations section 4.4.13 4.13 PN FNS 3 PN E appropriate architectural styles by finding that the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan and meets the criteria set forth in the land development regulations. I'll second that.

Okay, we have a motion by Mr. Chart, second by Mr. Cope. Is there any discussion? I just yeah just I wanted to add was because I'm going to be voting no but my reason being I again I do not think we need Mason modern Marie up and down with condos on federal highway is what we're getting and that's why it's in front of us to make that a permissible and I just I think it need to be we have six other styles they need to start the architects need to start looking at okay in that case could we have the role please Miss Miller Price Patton yes Mitch Katz No. Dedra Strong. Yes. Roger Cop. Yes. Jim Chart. Yes. Judy Malikica. No.

Gregory Snider. Yes. That's a fine. And just to be clear, my note tonight might not mean a no next time because if the commission says now you can do Mason Monterey, then we're not looking at that anymore. We're just looking at the style. And look, we we hate to be pigeonholed into a style like that as well. We we're modern by nature and then we designed it and then when we see we have to pick a style we'll which is the one that works most the votes for just so can someone clarify so we go to city commission next yeah they they can help you I think you should eliminate all six dials there you go we're going to take Keep that for comments

a quick break I get 8:26 back at 8:30 [Music] I got it. Here. I'll throw your candy. Wait.

record. Good evening. Um, Barbara Kingston, senior planner. Um, I would like to read into the record file number 2025-50, a privately initiated request to amend the land development regulations as it p pertains to the light industrial zoning district. Mr. Schiller, thank you so much. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Um, and honor honory board members. Um, I just wanted to say we're not talking about car dealerships and we're not proposing any masonry modern here tonight. Um, though maybe some people think it's worse what we're proposing. I I don't actually. I think it's just as good. And this is an LDR text amendment to allow gun range indoor into the Wallace Overlay district as a conditional use. And that's a lot of caveats and I'll get into that as to why, but we feel like we're proposing this amendment to allow a specific use in uh at really at 1215 Wallace Drive. Uh we can't file a specific text amendment for specific property. So, we met with staff. This is what we've come up with. Um, lots of points of um, of uh, agreement, a couple points of disagreement, and I'm sure we're going to get into that. So we're asking to amend the land de development regulations to permit service industry uses as principal uses in light industrial allow private gun range to operate in the LI zoning district within the Wallace overlay district Wallace drive overlay district as a conditional use also providing an actual definition for gun range indoor and the LDRs and other affectuating language. What we've passed out to you today is the range NRA range source book. This is specifically included in the language of the proposed amendment as almost like a bible. I don't want to say a bible and n together, but uh almost like this is where we're going to take a lot of our direction from in terms of source design etc. or sound and design attenu sound attenuation design etc. So, um, we can

get into that if there are any questions. Um, oops. So, uh, history here is on April 8th, Commissioner Long sponsored the proposed amendment to the commission and received consensus to schedule the request for June 10th of this year. At the June 10th commission meeting, the city commission unanimously sponsored the request to allow for formal application of the amendment to the city. And October 20th, today is the planning and zoning board meeting. oop uh and again if approved the city commission by the city commission and this board the applicant must go through the site plan and conditional use approval process you will see this application again if we are so lucky to be approved tonight and at city commission um just looking at the text of the ordinance um there are really no changes to some of this language section one and section two uh principal uses um etc on that first page 1 through 7 exist today in your code. We get into eight which is service industry uses that are those which are primarily engaged in providing an offsite service for but for which maintain inventory storage of materials and a business office at a central location. And you can see A through F the different categories of those service industry uses that we're proposing. Then we get into subsection D, conditional uses and structures allowed within the LI zone. And we're proposing sub five, gun range indoor within the Wallace Drive overlay district subject to section 4.3 KKK. Now, I do want to point out subdal uses. That is what's making this gun range indoor use a conditional use. And that conditional use is going to be

subject to certain other further conditions. Uh for instance, security and safety standards. Uh compliance with this whole range source book. So this range source book has both indoor and outdoor ranges, has pistol, it has air gun, has anything and everything you could do. It even goes as far as what the verbal commands are in the range. Um, I am not a gun expert. I don't purport to play one on television. Um, but I understand that obviously safety and security are paramount. We've also included 24 video security, no sale of alcoholic beverages. Did you know that there was a gun range in in Fort Lauderdale that actually has a cigar bar and an alcoholic bar within the gun range? So, we don't want that here. We are designed to be primarily safe. And frankly, the reason we came up with this to begin with is because our client wanted to do something special for Delray Beach Police Department. And one of the things that we will hopefully eventually get to propose is a indoor gun range that is 50 yards long. And that is uh one of the longest indoor gun ranges in South Florida to allow Delray Beach police to practice firing at those long ranges. That's the first thing. The second thing is we went to meet with Delray Beach PD at the very onset of this project to determine what they needed. What could we offer as a corporate citizen to benefit the Delaware Beach Police Department? And this is what we came up with. Um, so again, classroom safety space for safety programs. Our client is dedicated to gun safety, not just the proliferation of an

indoor range, but gun safety and wants to, as I said, make this a private club only for private guests, uh, private members, excuse me, and the police department. And half when we get there as a conditional use, half of the operating hours will be dedicated solely to the police department. But again, we're putting the cart before the horse because this amendment has to be approved first. Um, so again, that is the text of the amendment. Um, and then finally, you get the gun range indoor definition that I think the city does not have right now. They have gun ranges indoors, but no definition. That definition says a facility located entirely within an enclosed building designed and operated for the discharge of firearms at targets for the purpose of training practice qualification or education uh educational use under supervised conditions uh including accessory uses such as classroom training um training rooms and accessory retail. As you can see, that accessory retail for us, what as our proposed use will be limited to our private members and the Delory Beach Police Department. Um, I've talked a lot about conditional use, conditional use, conditional use. Well, the conditional use is, as you know, a separate process in addition to a site plan approval process. And there are some higher hurdles. Um and so the city commission and your board actually when you deal with uh conditional uses must find that for any approval you must find that the text amendment is con or I'm sorry the required findings for this item not just the conditional use but you have to find that this is consistent with the comprehensive plan and that the amendment furthers the implementation of an adopted neighborhood plan if applicable. um

your staff and we've we found a number of different uh comprehensive plan policies and goals and objectives. Your staff did also uh these are the se several of the policies that we we highlighted. NDC 1 point oops 1.12 provide a compliment complementary complementaryary mix of land uses including residential office commercial industrial recreational community facilities with design characteristics that provide similar uses of intensity height development patterns facing each other especially in residential neighborhoods uses that meet the daily needs of residents and public open spaces that are safe or attractive your staff's response to this was that the amendment to the zoning district is not sight specific ific all parcels zoned LI are impacted. The service industry uses are similar to the intensity of other existing principal uses in LI and staff has not identified any concerns. I want to highlight the uses permitted in light industrial. You have research and development, wholesaling, office, self-service, urban agriculture, CBD oil establishment. Uh accessory uses include parking lots, waste storage areas, monitoring wells, repair, truck rentals, urban agriculture, and these would be the conditional uses, rental and sales of modular structures, food preparation and processing uses requiring storage of regulated substances and pet services with outside use areas. Why are all these conditional uses? because they require a bit more um vetting, a bit more analysis to determine whether or not those uses are appropriate for LII specific uses. And we want to add gun range indoor to that list of conditional uses. Uh objective ND 1.4 industrial land use designations. You can I'm not in the interest of time not going to read through all of these. You guys can

certainly read these are regular comp plan um policies, goals and objectives that deal with industrial land use. Uh same thing with this uh you have an economic prosperity element to to sort of address uh Commissioner Katz's or uh board member Katch's Katz's uh issue with the property tax. Um and again this is I can tell you from our perspective um this is not aimed to be a money maker. This is aimed to be a significant resource for uh Delray Beach Police Department and you know provide a little monetization for the property with the private gun club. I do want to point out a couple things. LI zoning is literally limited to two very small areas east of 95 in the whole city. I've highlighted them for you. Uh here you can see them highlighted in purple or pink or magenta, whichever color floats your boat. In addition, the Wallace Drive Overlay District encompasses one whole area of light industrial and that property or that area consists of only 13 properties. and some research in the Wallace Drive overlay district that used to be a county enclave that was annexed into the city and really the city didn't know how to deal with it so they just created this overlay district to sort of let everything happen. Um, and it has and it's it's worked for for many many years. Uh, I do want to point out that the gun range indoor use is listed as a permitted use in the code in the industrial zoning districts and the MIC zoning districts. So, if somebody were wanting to open a gun range in those districts, they would literally just file an application and file a site plan and it would be a permitted use approved

by staff. What we're proposing makes us jump through several more hurdles in order to get that approval in the Wallace Overlay Wallace Drive overlay zoning district. Um this is the subject property. This is the property our client owns at 1215 Wallace Drive. Um that property uh if approved that will be demolished and built a new. Um there'll be uh I believe several warehouses on the property with the gun range really being all the way on the west side of the property. But again, we haven't gotten there yet. This is putting the cart before the horse. Um, as as I was telling you earlier, the conditional use approval, you must find that the conditional use has does not have a significantly detrimental effect upon the stability of the neighborhood which it will be located. Nor will the proposed conditional use hinder development or redevelopment of nearby properties. Those are two large standards to or hurdles to to qualify for. And again, if we're allowed to, we look forward to proving how this particular gun range indoor will meet and exceed those standards. Distance requirement. So, staff has proposed a distance requirement when we met with them about being the having the gun range x feet away from residential. Um, we declined to include that. And I'll tell you why. Because we're proposing the conditional use. The conditional use can take in a number of different um u different um objectives. Uh they can take in you as you guys just did with a conditional use on on um the glazing, right? So take it a step further with a conditional use of the gun range, you

can regulate a number of different things. hours of operation, landscape buffering, um burm requirements, sound attenuation, um I mean you can really run the gambit to make sure that if this use is allowed in this particular area of the Wallace Tribe Overlay District that it will literally fit on that property and in that neighborhood. But without this text amendment, this property is a non-starter. Um, again, special requirements for the use include safety, security, noise, education, etc. Uh, and as you know, conditional uses are created to allow for more intense uses to be established with a variety of conditions that limit the impact of the use on the public. I passed out the range source book and then we included the operational plan uh which somebody said may have told us when to change the light bulb in the gun range but this is comprehensive. Um it's not the end all be all. I think you'll hear from um members of the Delray shooting center that this is not the end all be all but this is a very good start for us. Um our client has taken this extremely seriously from day one. um which is why uh we have taken the liberties of this book. As far as sound is concerned, I do have a a brief summary about sound that I can pass out now. Um Miss Miller, if you want to pass that out for me. Um this is a very brief executive summary that says indoor gun ranges typically produce 70 to 95 dB outside the building during active firing. Now that granted that depends on the gun you're firing and the ammunition you're firing etc. But that's generally 70 to 95 immediately outside the

building during active firing. That drops to about 40 to 70 dB at property lines. Well-designed ranges comply with noise ordinances which are about 65 dB at boundaries. I think the city is about 60 dB here. Uh but you can see the difference between handguns 9 millimeter 45s to ri uh rifles uh 233 high-powered. Um and you can see what's the difference between inside the firing range uh behind interior walls 1 to 3 m outside 10 to 20 m at usually at a parking lot and at a property line. These are re real world measurements taken from a California range, a Texas facility with uh an indoor an indoor range and a European range. Um again, those studies were conducted between 2018 and 2023. Uh and we've uh have some best practices in terms of soundproofing that again, should we get to the next step, we will employ. Um because again our our goal here is to provide a unique resource to Delray Beach Police Department while also providing a private club for a small number of members to monetize a little bit the the gun range. So these are just a couple of um purposes or general purposes of um different sections of the source range book. So in conclusion, um we believe we meet the criteria for the amendment to be approved or make recommendation for approval by this board to the city commission. The service industry uses make sense as part of LI. Your staff agrees with that. Um the gun range indoor use is limited to Wallace Drive

Overlay District, which is 13 properties large and would be a conditional use. This would not be a permitted use in LI. In fact, this would not be permitted in LI whatsoever. It has to be in the Wallace Drive overlay district. Uh we felt like we've gotten super as spec specific as staff will let us get um without being spot zoning. Uh so that's the reason why because of the conditional use, we don't feel the distance requirement is needed and may be overkill. Uh, and again, the definition for gun train, gun range indoor, your spelling is not real good. Well, I'm a lawyer. I'm not a speller.

Yeah, but I don't need I don't need to know about gun rage indoor. So, gun rage. Sorry. It there will be no rage at this range. Okay. There'll be no rage. So, I appreciate that and that'll be fixed before city commission. Uh, so we ask for your approval tonight at this late hour. I thank you for um for being here and serving and we're here to answer any questions you may have. Thanks, Mr. Schiller. Miss Pton.

Okay. Okay. As you heard, this is an amendment to the land development regulations. Um, so the request would be to provide a recommendation to the city commission on ordinance number 27-25, a privately initiated amendment to add service industry uses as a principal use and gun range indoor as a conditional use in the light industrial zoning district. Um, by amending section 4.426, 426 4.33 and appendix A adding a definition. On April 8th, 2025, the applicant requested city commission sponsorship of an amendment to the LI zoning district use regulations and the L land development regulations. Um the applicant proposed to amend the principal use regulations to allow service industry uses in the LI zoning district and the city commission agreed to sponsor the amendment. Um, just some background information just to let you know what typically service industry uses are. There are those which are primarily engaged in providing an off-site service but which maintain inventory, storage of materials, and a business office at a central location. Repair of equipment and materials associated with the service is also permitted at this central location. Ex. That's okay. Okay. All right. Um, examples of uses are land development services, contractor and trade services, repair of office equipment, business services, limousine service, food preparation andor processing, and indoor gun range. Um you can see where it is allowed as the applicant indicated in industrial and mixed use mixed industrial and commercial zoning without limitation.

That is uh where more intense uses are allowed. Um in planned commercial center zoning district it's also allowed but indoor gun ranges are specifically prohibited. So less intense uses would go in these locations. And just to note that there's a gun range located on Poinsettia Drive approximately a quarter mile from the overlay. Um the applicant requested to include gun ranges as part of the service industry use category. Staff requested that it be classified as a conditional use and the applicant agreed. Li's own properties, as previously indicated, are located in two um specific locations. Um between Southwest 10th Street and Southwest 7th Street, east of Southwest 15th Avenue and west of Southwest 13th Avenue. And this overlay is located between Linton Boulevard and Southwest 7th Street, east of Wallace Drive and west of Southwest 9th Avenue in the Wallace Drive overlay district. And this is a little bit to tell you about the purpose and intent of the LI zoning district. It pro is to provide an opportunity to site, develop, and maintain highquality industrial land uses outside of an industrial park setting. It also allows certain industrial land uses to be located in areas which are considered to be environmentally or aesthetically sensitive. This district is appropriate in such areas due in part to the development standards which are more strict than those found in the industrial and MIC districts. While the LI district has flexibility in its application, it is not to be applied to small lots or other circumstances which would lead to non-conforming site development. And this is just a little bit of the history of Wallace Drive. Um, in 2004, the Wallace Drive redevelopment plan was adopted with the main purpose of providing strategies to revitalize the

area and facilitate economic development by creating the framework for future redevelopment. In 2012, an update to the plan acknowledged that market conditions created challenges for the redevelopment of the area with light industrial uses. And this is a list of um the applicant's proposal. So in light industrial district subsection B these would be the principal uses and structures that are permitted and these are all all fall under the heading of service industry uses. Um and the next um section I'm sorry subsection D would be the conditional uses that are allowed and that would include the gun range indoor indoor gun range in the Wallace overlay Wallace drive overlay district specifically. There are also special requirements that were indicated regarding safety standards, uh, sound attenuation, um, safety training, 24-hour security, controlled access, um, not allowing the sale of alcoholic beverages, and the, um, construction of exterior doors and how they are made. Okay. And appendix A definitions. This is a new definition because there there the use was in the code but there was no definition. And a facility located entirely within an enclosed building designed and operated for the discharge of firearms at targets for the purpose of training, practice, qualification, or educational use under supervised conditions, including accessory uses such as classrooms, training rooms, and accessory retail such as firearms, ammunition, related equipment, and safety gear. And this talks a little bit about the different types of use. So, a principal use is something that would come in and just be approved administratively through the zoning certificate of use

process. Um, conditional use would require review by this board that would actually make a recommendation to the city commission. So, these are just some examples of um the regulations from other jurisdictions for comparison sake. So, the city of West Palm Beach requires city commission approval and their process is called um class A special use. They allow it in light industrial and industrial zoning districts. Must be enclosed in air conditioned building and they have 1,000 ft separation requirements. So, this facility would have to be 1,000 ft from residential zoning districts, schools, and public parks. The city of Boington Beach um they allow gun ranges by right in the certain districts that are indicated above. So they only have a separation uh 300 foot separation requirement if um in from planned industrial development district only to residential uses. And we also have here unincorporated Palm Beach County in the city of Lakew Worth. So, in unincorporated Palm Beach County, where gun ranges are allowed, um there will there's a 500 ft separation requirement from residential, civic, and parks. In Lakew Worth Beach, approval is subject to administrative or conditional use approval. Um it's allowed in an industrial park of commerce. They have noise regulations and separation requirements of 400 feet from residential without regard to intervening structures. So if they're buildings in between, it doesn't matter. That distance still applies. So these are some of the the findings. So some of the comp plan um requirements um as indicated again because this impacts all properties that are zoned

light industrial. Um, so the difference with W with Wallace Road, that would be the only place that the gun range would be allowed subject to conditional use approval. And this is a map um that kind of shows what's around the um Wallace overlay. So the area that's bounded in red, all of that is part of the Wallace Overlay district. So essentially anything in this area

could um accommodate a gun range. And one of the things I just wanted to make sure that some of the uses that were indicated um I think indicated a little bit further down or maybe on the next slide you can see Groves of Delray 2 which is a residential I think it's a senior housing um facility. um north of there, Calvary Bible Alliance Church and a little bit to the east of there is an elementary school. And again, here are additional policies. Um, and the board needs to take into consideration if the proposed use changes are consistent with the character of uses already allowed in the established zoning district and if the proposed regulations and conditional use review and approval process are sufficient to mitigate any potential impacts on adjacent properties in a more um comp plan elements. This one deals with economic prosperity. Um, and the board also in this case needs to consider if the uses proposed by the applicant support the goal of making the Wallace Drive overlay more marketable and the broader comprehensive plan goals in support of a dynamic entrepreneurial ecosystem and the preservation of indust industrial land uses. And now the housing element. Staff recommended that the applicant add distance separation requirements from residential uses for the gun range, but the applicant declined to include this declined to include this requirement. The board should consider whether a minimum distance separation requirement is appropriate or if the conditional use process is sufficient. Additionally, the board should consider if hours of operation should be adopted for the gun range use. Um, land development regulations require that any 24-hour or

late night business located within 300 ft of any residentially zoned property obtain a conditional use permit from the city. The board should consider if this requirement is sufficient or if additional limitations should be adopted. So, this is just a summary of board considerations, things that you may need to to think about. Are the proposed service industry uses appropriate for light industrial zoning? Is a gun range an appropriate use in the Wallace Drive overlay? Should there be a required distance separation between gun ranges and residential uses? Or is the conditional use process and special requirements for the use sufficient to mitigate potential negative impacts on adjacent residential areas? And should there be limitations on the hours of operation of indoor gun ranges? And here are the options for board action.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, is there any public comment on this? All right. Is there any further discussion before the board? Mr. Sure. Don't hurt yourself. It's all right. It's hard without socks. It's tough.

No rage. No rage, Mr. Chair. Um, first off, I I don't think we have a problem adding hours of operation. That was in the original draft. I I believe staff asked us to remove that. We don't have a problem with that. However, that can be addressed through the conditional use process. But again, we're if if you feel strongly about putting hours of operation in now, we're fine with that. Okay. Thanks. Anything else? No. M Jason, anything else from you? No, nothing for me. I'm ready. I have questions. Mr. Cat,

I definitely have questions. Number one is staff. I know you said these these requirements. Is there any have you found any zoning anywhere in the state much less the county that does not have a distance requirement to residential schools? I believe based upon the research because it was more local. Um Boon is a little different. So in some cases they do, some cases they don't. Um I believe Lakeworth Well, actually, Lake Worth does. Palm Beach County does. Everybody has a distance requirement. It's pretty standard, correct? Yes.

And it's something staff would like to see in this. Yes. Right. Um I'm just asking them questions right now. Okay. I'll come back to you.

Okay. Please do. Um but my um this the distance the fact that this is right across from a um residential community right near our elementary school. It brings up a lot of concerns with that. And I get Mr. M uh Mr. Schiller said that we can address it in the conditional use process, but you can't address the distance requirement if it's not listed as a potential conditional use. Am I correct, Madam Attorney? Because it's not listed. There's all kinds of things here we can look at when it comes back to us.

But distance is not there. So, we can't really address that later. there are certain conditions that you can um enforce as part of a conditional use even if it's not part of the criteria. I can go ahead and pull that up and answer you while you ask the next question.

Okay. But that's I mean that's cuz that I I miss so we can go back and deal with it then. But if it was already here, we wouldn't have to deal with it and make it easier. Um, and then I thank you for this book and I found I'm cur cuz I'm like all right this is a lot of information and I and I looked cuz to me it's like this should tell you where you should put the gun range right so they do it wasn't in the backup but is in here and it says sight selection site selection for indoor rangers should be based on geographical as well as this is page 2 3 333 um as well as marker factors distance from utilities local zoning relationship of the range to its customers, target of market and other social and economic factors should be considered in the planning in sight. To me, those other social factors are somebody's house, a school that should be taken into consideration. That's in that's in what was provided us. So, I think we should be doing that as well and putting some type of separation. I don't know what that number is but there should be some type of separation requirement from schools and residential. Um other question maybe Neil you can answer this but um antidotally um somebody told me that many gun ranges have um um ancillary accident or accidental I think is the word discharges outside of the range is a common occurrence and I've heard that before. Can you has has staff heard that before?

I've never heard that. No. So like during CO there was no um you know people committing suicide outside the ranges here in Delray Beach. There it is. Do you know that? I don't have that information.

My understanding is that I talked to I talked to Christina Morrison today. She sent us an email. She told me that did happen and was you know that was came from her today. She also sent an email that's in the backup. I did have a discussion with her about that as well and I think I mean if if there are potential of accidental people are you know they they they because you have to bring in my understanding and I've haven't shot in a gun range in a long time but my memory is you have to like bring your gun in in a certain way like you have to be unloading this and that but if you forgot to do that before you left the house and you get to the car now you got to fiddle around and get your gun in order to be accepted when you walk into the range and that's where you potentially could have accidental discharges and if you are across the street from a residential neighborhood, a school, I don't think is is wise. So that that's all I have. I I I'll let I'm curious what my other board thinks, but maybe I can be swayed. I don't know.

I do have the answer to your question about the conditional use process. So yes, you can. So in addition to some requirements I'll mention in a moment, you can limit the hours of operation or the longevity of the use and then the other limitations um are based on compatibility with nearby uses, consistency with the requirements of the LDR, consistency with the comp plan or um any of those types of items that

it could be it could be looked at later. That's good. That's good to know. I mean because that's it has to be looked at. I mean that's I think that's important. I mean we we just talked about recently like vape shops distance to like schools and things and and um I remember when we passed tattoo parlors can't be too close to schools but and and but gun ranges will just put them right next door. With all due respect there's no school across the street from this proposed. How many feet is the school? I was trying to tell him not to interrupt. It's not It's not across the street. Pine Grove is what you're talking about. Pine Grove. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's 700, right? It is roughly 700 feet. 700 feet.

It's not directly across the street, but that's fine. From the from theite this site. But that's this site. This site where they're wanting it, but the entire district is going to be zoned. So, you could put a gun range on the opposite end of it. Correct. With a conditional use. Right. So, this board I know won't approve a conditional use of a gun range next to a school. It's 700 feet from this proposed site, but we're not just approving it's not it's not that's on the bottom half of the site. That big empty space up on the top across from Calvary, right? They could potentially do a request there.

They of all 13 all 13 properties can get a request home, excuse me, but that's a conditional use. So that they can't walk in and tomorrow get a building. This site makes I mean this site may make a little more sense because it is like I said 700 feet. The other isn't. That's why if you had say a 500 ft requirement from the elementary school, this would this one would meet that condition. We don't have a problem with that. All right, that's all.

Uh there's also a retail shop uh a few hundred feet from there that sells beer. Is that uh part of the condition that it not be within a certain distance of of a of a retail shop? Um no. The I mean retail shops uh I mean retail is retail. So as far as related to alcohol sales we are not allowing alcohol on our property in our property in our gun range whatsoever. No cigar bar all lounge at this one. It's only in full art. It's over,000 ft. I I'd like to ask a little bit about the police station is

from the school district's property. Is that a temporary situation that the police would be using this facility? They or will they have a gun range in their new building when it's built?

Um, I don't believe they're having a 50 yard gun range in the new police facility, police city hall facility. But I I don't I don't know. Our our intent is to leave this 100% for the police. We're doing this primarily for the police department. Um again, we have a private club, as I said, to monetize a little portion of that property, but this is primarily being done for the Delray Beach Police Department. And I would like to say that um our concern and caution to the applicant was that enforcement

whether you call it a private gun club primarily for use of the Delray Beach Police Department. It would function very similar to another gun club or shooting range. And I think there were issues that we had with just saying, "Well, we're mostly going to do it for the police, but other people can join as well." So, it's either a shooting range or it's not. And I think from staff's perspective, it didn't really matter who the clientele is. It's a shooting range. And then the issues related to noise, etc. are what were in our considerations as we're evaluating the request.

I'm not sure what you just said. The clients don't matter to us. Like it's a gun range, it's a gun range. So it's good. It can be both is what you're saying.

We were com uncomfortable with the characterization of it. I think they initially came in with calling it a public safety gun club or indoor shooting range, something like that. And we said that's too specific, especially with our similarity of use process. if somebody wanted to come in next door and say, "Well, I'm just a gun club or a gun range." So, I'm pretty similar to how this operates that it's just it's messy. It's too specific. It's not necessarily helpful. So, the client population or the customer population we felt was irrelevant and potentially messy and sticky for administering zoning code.

And it's something that staff can't how do we monitor that? It's not something that can be monitored. Any limitation to the weapons that can be brought in? Could I bring in an AR-15 or a Bushmaster?

Uh, we haven't gotten that far as the what weapons are allowed to be used there. Um, I don't want to go back to this, but that can be addressed through a conditional use process because I will say this because we're defining gun we're defining indoor gun range and we don't have any like limitations of of of what firearms can be brought into a gun range that could be approved as of right. And I will say this uh thanks to Mr. Costello's handiwork. Um the the closest school is 1144 feet away from from Pine Grove from Pine Grove and from a church 658 ft away. So well the saffron report says 700. So something

school district property it's a it's 1100 1,144 ft. The west half of that property where Pinerove is is basically you an agreement with the city for a park. So basically we're over 1,000 ft away from from that park and Pinerove and over 600 ft away from Calvary. How far from Magro? Magro is on Second Street. No, no, it's right up the street. Oh, you're talking about the village across from Carver from Katherine Strong Center. That's Yeah, it's right across from the chief uh village academy south. Yeah. Right across from Katherine Strong. All right.

Cather, it's it's over. That's okay. The staff report. That's where I got it from. So 700 ft. Right. So yeah. So go ahead. Oh. So are you speaking about your particular property? I'm talking about the overlay. The talking about our our specific property. So I'm talking about the this what's in the staff report is from the overlay. So was a conditional use which is any place a gun range could go in any of those areas. So if you want to as far as distance criteria, not only is it limited to the Wallace Drive overlay, but if you put want to put 500 ft from a park, church, school, so be it. We're finding that. But we didn't want it. We were

right across residential district, right? And so, look, it's it's uh it very it minimizes the location, which it's almost to the point it's just I I guess my major concern, Neil, is what can't go into a service uh uh principal use? What where do you sort of draw the line? Could a crematorium go in there? No. No. So the list if you want to list the list there. We can go back up to the list of uses in the LA. That doesn't matter because the conditional use.

No, this is just for us just for a gun range indoor. That's the only conditional use in the in the Wallace drive overlay. We'll show the conditional uses in LI. Okay. So it's very limited in the LI and also as you may and you know we wanted to provide flexibility

in the LI zone district. We understand that with the passing of the live local act, there's even more pressure on industrial and we we just talk about tax base. So, we want flexibility for those that have non-residential properties to make to make uh to make that investment. Now, this particular site owned by our client is not only this aspect, but there's actually a corporate headquarters that would be on the east site. We don't have a site plan or conditional use to present that at this point. their whole intention. They own the property. It'd be a foundation corporate head foundation headquarters. There's also been some research and development potentially on this site. So there could there intervening uses the way the preliminary site plan is laid out. The uses on the far west side facing Wallace Drive. Granted, right across the street up from this property is MIC. And if you look at the zoning map across the street from residential where the market is where the the roofing company is where the multibay condominium is is owned mic it's a permitted use there we're actually making more restrictive regulations that really apply just to the li when somebody could go in right across from the residential I or mic seat right on the south side of 10th Street. So, we understood that. We understood the concern with the Wallace Drive, but it really the I and the MIC really are no restrictions, there's no regulations, there's no definition. And so, we're we're taking all that into consideration to make this a high quality uh privately a membership driven facility that's not generally open to the facility. Yes. Can it be also conditional use then to be membership only? So they either have to be brother

police department, they have to be a member of the club. I see a nodding yes, somebody in their audience. Again, we don't have a problem with that. I do think that your staff would and you ask your staff, I I would guess that they feel it's too specific of a of a condition. Now, I know you're not saying police, but as a private club, like for example, you in order to purchase a beverage at the Delry Beach Elks Lodge, you must be a member and present a card. It's a private inst private membership.

Well, I don't know that operationally. I think the clients are less concerned than for us to request that the board evaluate if operationally this works in this area. And I think the membership itself was a less important component of our analysis if the board feels that that's important in maintaining a character cuz then the cuz then the owners can vet the members to not somebody's not just going to want go in a bun. They could you could help do that by adding the membership requirement in there to make things a little more feasible. Yeah. I mean than just the open to the public.

Yeah. I don't know. I I mean there's a waiting period I think to buy guns. I don't know. I'm not a shooter. But I think again operation not in Florida for handguns. Yes. But rifles like big R-15s you can walk in and and buy whenever you want. I I still don't think I got an answer and I know the chairman disagrees with me here on the conditional use. If you can come in and do a conditional use on shooting ranges, can't the next person uh come in and get a conditional use for a crematorium or stop or a rendering works. So, they'd have to go through this process. They'd have to submit a privately initiated text amendment to do that.

And if they were going into the Wallace Drive overlay district, I would assume that this board would want that to be a conditional use. I just that's what I said. Yeah. Okay. Of course. Why? because those uses have greater impacts than permitted uses on the neighborhood, right? And any board would want the ability to do their best to mitigate those uses on the neighborhood. Allowing this as a conditional use gives you that ability to do that. Thank you. Thank you,

Mr. Patton. Go ahead. I I just, you know, one thing I just can't get my head around. You can go there's there's there's zoning districts you can go into and buy a piece of land and then and just apply for a permit. Why why can't you just do that? Well, we own this property. Um we felt like

Well, we own this property. Um and we feel like this is um an opportunity to do something special here. Um and and create a scenario where there are uh this project whatever ends up being is going to be vetted so that it fits within the community. Um I think that if frankly I think all gun range uses should be conditional uses in the city like they do in other cities. Um and and granted the other cities may have distance requirements, but those zoning districts don't necessarily just have 13 properties. Uh and those zoning scenarios may have been established years and years and years ago. And we're getting the opportunity to do it here and now and in a very different regulatory environment than it's ever been. We have open carry allowed in the state of Florida now. Like nobody could have thought that was going to happen. take that AR-15 you buy there and walk into Publix.

You you they don't allow guns. But um that being said, they do. They do. Yeah. They said they Oh, they they are going to Okay.

All that all that uh other other um noise. Um your question is why don't we go buy another piece of property? We're looking at other pieces of property, but we feel like this is a use that um should be evaluated because again, we are trying to do something really for the public uh by promoting by having this indoor gun range use on this site that's not going to be for the public. It's going to be for private members and primarily for the police department. And I think that's been our goal a like since the beginning. Our intent has always been to do this for the police department. your staff can tell you. We fought with them over public service or public service indoor range or public safety indoor range. Um that

has the police department publicly endorsed this project. Not as if or asked for it in writing. No. Okay. I'm I'm curious because I keep hearing the police, but I don't see the police. I mean, I've met the I've met the union guys before once or twice, and they usually show up when they want something um with t-shirts on, lots of them. Um, so Mr. Patton's floor. Sorry. Yeah. And like I said to you earlier, you know, just make a conditional use of the noise.

Well, and I think we tried to address your some of your noise concerns, trying to identify what it may sound like to the best of our ability, right? We don't, it's not built yet. We don't have the ability to test it. Um, but what we found, I think, was pretty compelling and it's also backed up in the source book.

Okay. Yes. Okay. So, um I agree with staff, you know, this whole thing of trying to to market this to staff and to us as well where we're doing this for the police department and you know, so that's what it is. And it's a private club. It's still a gun range regardless. It it's a gun range. So, on the one hand, you're saying, well, you know, you're doing this because it's a public service, but then on the other hand, you're excluding the public because it's a private club. It it doesn't jive with me. I I don't like the fact that it's close to a church. I don't like the fact that it's close to uh a senior citizen uh development and it's within 700 ft of a school. when you have a MIC area that allows for this that already has a gun range that apparently is not that has the distance requirements that the city is requiring. You all don't want to do distance but if you move the range a quarter mile what is this

west? You're right in line with everything that the city is requiring. Like you said there no restrictions there. There's no conditional use. I just it doesn't smell right. to me. Um, one of the things that we're supposed to look at according to what was up on the graphic was, uh, whether or not it makes the overlay more marketable, having an exclusive range that's not open to the public. I don't understand how that's making any area more marketable. It's just making it uh, exclusive. I mean, you're you're preventing the people in the area from being able to be up to to use the facility. We already have one that's a/4 mile away. Why do we need two? I just again, it it I don't like the sound of it. I don't I don't like the smell of it, and I don't think it meets the criteria that's required uh based on what we would give it to read through. um something else. But I lost my train of thought and that's what I get for not bringing a pen. Um

um but for now that's it. That's it. I just it doesn't sit right with me. Thank you. So to Mr. Cat's point, the police didn't seem to know anything about this. They had their own range. So I was confused about that. Um, so not only I guess the one in Boon, pardon me. It's called the Delry Beach, but it's in Boon. Oh, yeah. Oh, their training their training thing. I've been at that training thing. Okay. So, I was confused about that because I would think they would be interested in that if that's something, but you haven't contacted them. We've had discussions with the police department. Mark Mark or Jeff, do you want to talk about the police department discussions? They occurred before I was brought on board.

Okay. Um, were you sworn in? I am not. I'll go ahead and get sworn in. Please raise your right hand by the authority to me the notary of the state of Florida. Affirm the testimony about today is the truth. The whole truth and nothing but the truth. Yes. Look before you leave right on the signing sheet. Yes.

Yes, we'll do. Uh Mark Grafton um also council for the applicant. Um we did have an initial meeting um that Rob Long uh Vice Mayor Rob Long put together. Um and it was a really really productive session where we had multiple members of the police department there including um Lieutenant McCabe. Uh and we had really really productive dialogue about what they needed um in terms of a facility. Um and that discussion kind of evolved into uh designing this facility and there were discussions about the uh even when they do get their new facility in the new police department. Um it's going to have a lot of limitations based on that location. So things like uh low light shooting situations kind of um a shoot house, different kind of breaching a door, things like that that they don't have the ability to do. So this this is really intended to be a state-of-the-art facility that is designed specifically to to meet police department's needs. Um and so that we actually did have a lot more um criteria specifying kind of showing our intent as part of this land development text amendment as part of the negotiation with staff. They they thought it was a little bit too specific. So that's why it's a little bit more general now. But absolutely, when you see this come back as a conditional use, if you're not uh convinced that this is primarily for law enforcement, you will have the ability to deny it and I would encourage you to deny it because that has always been the intent. Um, so you'll you will get an opportunity later. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Mark. I have nothing to add. I'm in favor of it. Okay, I have some I have some things to say. Generally, excuse me. I totally support adding the uh service industry to the LI zoning, but nobody's talking about that.

You're trying to establish consensus, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that. Left it for you. As far as the gun range goes, I can support the gun range, but I think there's about three things that need to go into the section here of uh 4.3K. Okay. Um, one is a separation thing. I don't I don't have a number that you know rings my bell particularly, but maybe if you guys are happy with 500 ft, I could be happy with 500 ft

from from a school. A school, a church or uh park. A park. There you go. It doesn't help the residential. Yeah, it doesn't help. No, it doesn't say res. Not going to say resial. It's not going to It isn't that far from residential. This is It's right across the street. Right across the street from us living. Exactly. You can spoke now. Okay. Um my next thing is uh Jeff

hours. I think it should have designated hours. I don't know what you think the appropriate hours are. uh 8 to 9, 8 in the morning to 9 at night or less than that or slightly longer or I I would say no more than 12 consecutive hours and we at the most and we can refine that. Wait, needs it this morning.

He's not going to talk. It dealt with hours of operation. So initially I mean through the conditional use I think that's the best approach. We had hours of operation that after had after closing to the to the membership that law enforcement could come in and I think we had it like 11 11:00 but we took that all out because because then there was a concern that well if you go to midnight then you're a late night business which requires another conditional use. So we took all the time out and and hours of operation um and just would deal with it through the conditional use unless

I would yeah it's going to come back in conditional use. I do think hours of operation is important. Yes, we can go to that. And the other thing I got is noise and I talked to Mr. Schiller today at probably length about this. It says in here comply with chapter 99 of the code of ordinances. And chapter 99 of the code of ordinance doesn't say anything that's relevant to this operation.

So currently there is a we're moving towards the decibel level that would constitute a violation. and Miss Vega may have an update on where that ordinance is in the process, but we are looking to adopt decibel based regulations for that. So, if the board was comfortable with waiting on that to come through to be applicable, um, so we left it vague knowing that that ordinance is coming, but we can certainly look to whatever direction the board has. Well, I mean, I'd be quite happy to let that ordinance go through as long as it's not any more than 60 dibels at the property limit, which I think is an appropriate an appropriate level, but you think I should that it's more appropriate to leave it and see what the uh ordinance is?

Um, yeah. Yeah, I mean you can make your you can make your suggestion if the board decides, but I I don't I don't have a number right now for you. Okay.

And we could either put it in as if you wanted to make it a specific decel recommendation. We could either way we'll communicate it to commission that PZB had the concerns that you all are listing and so it would be um I don't know that I feel comfortable with saying to take a different path other than the noise ordinance but I think we can state the concern that the noise ordinance would be adequate for this situation.

Okay. Well, that's my that's what I say. The noise needs to be addressed. The hours the hours can be addressed later. And I think 500 ft of a separation from a school church park, but uh I don't know what the rest of the board think. I I like that there's any kind of consensus here on a motion. is there. I would tell you what wait is in charge. No, he's the vice chair. Mr. Patton is Oh, you are one of you guys.

He's the second penalty. Now, what do I want to say with this? You haven't done this in a while, but you've been chair question. So the proposed ordinance encompasses both the light industrial as well as the the gun rates fitting into that definition. Correct. Yes. So yes. Okay. But only within the Wallace Drive overlay district. It wouldn't be anywhere else. As a condition.

And why would I'm sorry. Why would the conditional use if we're saying yes, change the zoning to this, then why would we ever need a conditional use once we've changed the zoning to that?

Well, so again, with the different use paths that you can take, it would be like principal would be something that we could approve administratively because it has less of a potential to create some kind of disruption to the surrounding properties. Whereas conditional use is for something that may let's what's the wording that may not be generally appropriate. So it allows the board to approve on a case- by case basis. So let's say if this amendment is approved and they come in and their conditional use is approved. If another gun range wanted to come in to the north of it, then you could decide if that was appropriate based in that circumstance. So it doesn't allow blanket um blanket use within a zoning district. It allows the deciding bodies to determine on the case by case basis. All the service uses are principal uses whatever they were on the list

bakeries service uses contact repair office all those passes are allowed in that area but they added gun range to gun is in a separate paragraph that says condition. Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Uh recommend approval. Move to recommend approval to the city commission ordinance number 2725 as amended. Amending article 4.4 4 basoning district article 4.3 district regulations general provisions and appendix A definitions finding that the amendment as amended and approval thereof is consistent with the comprehensive plan and meet the criteria set forth in land development regulations and those amendments are that no uh can we put it up there? school gun range

distance gun range will not be within 500 ft of any school, park or church and noise control at any sound detected at the property line shall be at or less than 60 dibels. That's we agree. Well, I think we said that we could bring we can bring that suggestion to city commission, but it was perhaps better to be in line with the city ordinance level thing. And the other one's a suggestion. Okay, that's a motion. I'll second the motion. Yeah, you have to call the chair. The motion.

Yeah. Okay. May I first say um I couldn't think of a better way to spend my 46th wedding anniversary. Happy anniversary. Oh no. Yeah. Call a roll. Yeah. Call a roll. Mr. Price Patton. No. Mitch Catz to I like that it's coming back but um I'm going to say yes because it'll come back to us. Dedra Strong. No. Roger Cop. Yes.

Jim Chard. No. Judy Mullica. No. Gregory Snider. Yes. Sorry. It's a 43, correct? 43. 43 in favor. 43 against 34. Uh 34. Let me Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay. We would just normally we would redo it, but I think because it's a recommendation, it's fine because normally we would always want to do it. Sure. I'll make a if you want um I'll make a more recom uh a motion to recommend denial based on the criteria listed in just not entirely sure if it has to be cuz I know

it doesn't have to be right now recommendation going to go. Yeah, it's your recommendation. Recommendation just if it was normal he would. Okay, perfect. Good. Thank you. One last thing. Okay. Comments staff. No comments. No comments. Just the reminder that the next meeting dates are November 17th and December 15th. Thank you. And December what? December 15th. You want these back?

I have a short one. I'm sorry. Um and I'm sorry to pick on Mr. Catz just a little bit, but I know I know that this is not a real issue that we would have, but you mentioned in a past item um the commercial residential property tax issue, and you said that you would bring it up every single time. I know I didn't say that. I never Oh, you said you'd bring it up every time it came forward. I know you would never like use that against the applicant or a justification. I still voted yes, but I just I know I just want to make sure make it clear that that's never, you know, to be used against them or as a justification. You're justified if it's coming for a zoning change. Absolutely. Sure. Yeah. And that's more something that we can bring up in commissioner comments. I just never want it to be used against the applicant. But no, if it's a zoning change, that's an absolute consideration.

Sure. But not in these cases. And we're essentially changing the zoning of that property. And I have something to say. Did I turn this on or off? Um, so with regard to the I think that they said that the MIC zoning they can put a gun range in easily. It's already there. Huh? Right. With no right. Is it off? That's an industrial point setting. Sorry. So it's just to the east of the MIC. I I understand industrial. I understand. But there should be rules in place for ranges that the other cities have in place. So perhaps our city needs to look at that

with regard to decibb and distances from parks, schools, churches, and residential that was presented. I think they did that research. No, no, but it needs to be for like right now where it is, it's right on 95, the current one, but somebody could open up one later on. you you bring up a great point. Who does that? That's us. So, we didn't bundle it with this amendment because we always have to be careful with private amendments that we don't have scope creep. But we can certainly add that to the discussion because Okay. to see if that's appropriate. Yeah. Thank you. That's how much it does. I want to make sure that viol Yeah.

Is that it? Mr. Go, welcome aboard. Oh, thank you. Final comments. Good to be here. Let's not make it this late next time. You just you you have not brought up quite as many architects as Chris Brown and you they did not teach you like they taught Chris Brown and you haven't had lunch with him like Chris Brown, but it was very impressive.

Mitch, he's probably the first guy I ever met when I moved here 40 years ago. Can we keep going? one up first. I don't know where we are. Who has had a chance to comment and who has made you made your comments. Happy anniversary. Thank you. Happy anniversary. Tell Caroline happy anniversary. Thank you. Happy anniversary. Thank you. You and Carolyn. I hesitate to ask you. Do you have any more comments? No, I do. Look at that. See, I have one thing in the discussion about I can't remember the name. Masonry modern. Oh, okay. Um, I think that item is coming back to us though.

He's not talking about this. This is a general discussion about architecture. This has nothing to do with this specific thing. One of the things I heard, Mr. Ch, thank you. Is that or somewhere that it's a proliferation of mission

it's too long tonight. It's that's the part of the problem is that's the proliferation. That's all we ever see. Everybody wants to do that and and as a result of that the commission has now got a change to where it has to go through special approval to use it. I think they ought to look at this is for staff. I think they ought to look at maybe a moratorum of some period of time on mainstream modern that like for the next two years it's not acceptable. I think the moratorum was making it come before the but it hasn't helped. Everything comes to us it gets approved. That was just say no for a period of time.

Don't bring that like bring masonry modern. If you want to do that forget it go somewhere else. What what it seems like Roger you just mentioned they they they sit down with the seven guy you know the the client sits down with the architect says these are your seven choices and the the client says what's the cheapest automation what's the broadest what's the most broad that that you everything will fit within I mean Carrie Glickstein famously said I don't want to ever see another art deco project ever again stop that song so he was right about that project. We had a beautiful art deco project come before us recently.

Well, you know, I did check with staff on this. How many because since May, you've had May 23, you've had to request the the style. Every single style has been requested and approved, you know? I mean, what's the point, right? So, we have to listen to the same thing twice,

right? Exactly. for yeah for what it's worth I think it has resulted in a higher quality product for these applicants being it gives staff a little more leverage to push so there's that benefit but we are certainly to your point looking at the style and whether it should continue on in the guidelines or if it should change so um when we have that ready it'll come forward and we'll have to do anything through the workshop process to make sure that the public has a chance to chime in. Do you do you want our opinions now? It's up to you.

Thank you very much. I don't know about that, but trying trying to stay out of the way.