County Council - Regular Meeting

Gavin, you're ready to go. Good morning and welcome to the Delaware County Council meeting this October 28th, 2025. It is 9:00 a.m. If you please join me and stand for the pledge. Mike, would you lead us, please? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate it. Roll call, please. Mr. Bookout, here. Mr. Blanket, present. Here. Mr. Hughes, here. Mr. Chance, here. Fifer,

here. Go ahead. Present. Freeman here. Thank you. Was the agenda posted properly? Yes. Entertain a motion to approve the agenda. So moved. Second. Motion by Dan. Second by Jessica. Roll call. Mr. Planken. Yes. Mr. Hughes. Yes. Smoke. Yep. Smokeout. Yes. Mr. Piper. Yes. Mr. Can. Yes. Strawhead. Yes. Thank you. Moving on to approving our minutes. One motion for all or indiv. Let's do them individually, please. Motion to accept the September 4th special meeting. A second.

Motion by Dan. Second by Jessica. Any comments or corrections? Roll call, please. Mr. Flangen, yes. Mr. Hughes, yes. Smoke, yes. Spookout. Yes. Miss Piper, yes. Mr. Can? Yes. Mr. Wyhead? Yes. Right. I'll move to approve the September 23rd council meeting minutes. And I'll second. All right. I have a motion, a second. The regular council meeting minutes have some issues. I would like to table those if I could get council to support me on that. I agree. I'll amend my motion to table and I'll second that.

All right. So, I have a motion and a second. A motion by Jessica, second by Dan to table. Any questions from council? Hearing none. Roll call, please. M. Plank? Yes. Mr. Hughes? Yes. Mr. Mogul? Yes. Rookout? Yes. Mr. Spiper? Yes. Mr. Can? Yes. Mr. Whead? Yes. I'll move to approve the September 23rd, 2025 final budget hearing minutes. Second. Motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Any comments or corrections? Roll call, please. Miss Flangen, yes. Mr. Hughes, yes. Mr. Mo, yes. Lookout, yes. Spiper, yes. Mr. Sc, yes. Mr.

Yes. Thank you. Moving on to transfers. Whitney, starting in county general, we got 125 clerk 125 101 deput deputy filing clerk circuit court 3 negative 1,000 103 101 first deputy elections positive 1,000 for a total transfer of zero. Motion to approve. Second. Motion by Dan, second by Jessica. Rick, are you here? Representative that one. Was this online?

Any questions for Rick? Was this the new one? Yeah. You have any further questions besides What are we doing, Rick? We lost the value.

Hey, thank you. Rick, can you turn the mic on, please? Okay, that one on now. Thank you. Uh, so she had calm time from the last election. Uh, that actually ran past what we had in the budget for the end of the year. So, I just moved from another line to get it paid out. I'll leave that line empty for the rest of the year, but I am of course going to fill it immediately once once the money's right. Further questions from council hearing? None. Roll call, please. M. Planken. Yes. Hughes. Yes. Spiper. Yes. Mogul. Yes. Bugout. Yes. Mr. Sc. Yes.

Mr. Swahhead. Yes.

Thank you. There we go. Whitney. 155 EMS 135 Stipens1,500 198 101 part-time -4,000 182 101 paramedic 28 -17,000 147101 paramedic 24 -12,000 178 101 paramedic 27 7 -19,000 118 101 advanced EMT 1 -10,000 116 101 advanced EMT6 -3,000 148 101 paramedic 25 -12,000 196 126 Overtime positive 78,500 for total transfer zero. Move to approve.

Second. Motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Comments or questions? Hearing none. [clears throat] Roll call. Miss Blanken. Yes. Mr. Yes. Can Yes. Miss Bole. Yes. Mr. Web. Excuse book. Yes. Mr. KZ. Yes. Miss Wyatt. Yes. Miss Piper. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Megan. All right, moving on. Whitney

139 public defender 172 perf14,500 1941 174 life insurance60 1951 175 disability insurance 300 171 FICA positive 2000 1931 173 health insurance positive 12,960 for a total transfer of zero. Move to approve. Second motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Comments or questions?

You said you somehow got your health insurance misfigured last year, correct? Yes. And you got that fixed for this year. You said yes. Any more comments or questions? Is that is that the same thing that happened to the Perf? You know, I don't know how there ended up being so much money in PERF. It had to be a mistake on my part. I honestly I may have got the two numbers flip-flopped for last year's budget. Did we have people leave that part? Was that

We had one person leave, but it wouldn't have made that big of a difference. Okay. Further questions hearing none. Roll call, please. Miss Blanken, yes. Mr. Hughes, yes. Spiper, yes. Mr. Mogul, yes. Mr. Bookout, yes. Mr. Canad, yes. Thank you. Are we on Whitney?

124 communications 109 101 Comp techch negative 15,000 111101 Comtech15,000 134101 Comp,000 19810 101 part-time 15,000 196 126 Overtime positive 35,000 195 119 Holiday pay positive 10,000 536 equipment positive 15,000 for a total transfer of zero. Move to approve.

Second. Motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Questions or comments? So Fred, what's what's up? It's what I do every year. I comm come back and ask for money to be put into overtime and holiday pay to get us through the rest of the year. So the overtime hasn't been spent yet. Is that what you're saying? Say that again. the overtime has not been spent yet. No, it's it's to get through the end of the year and um why all the negative uh contact those are open positions that we had throughout the year where we have extra money equipment

uh that is to add a redundant connectivity to the radio system that the commissioners have agreed to pay for half of. So are you replacing it? No, it's it's to add a redundant connectivity system. Thank you. Further questions for Fred. Hearing none. Roll call, please. Mr. Hughes, yes. Mr. Flangen, yes. Piper, yes. Smoke, yes. Mr. Brook, yes. Mr. KZ, yes. Yes. Thank you, Fred. Britney

129 sheriff 105101 deputy8,602 115 101 deputy1570 120 101 deputy7,155 126 101 deputy 5,317 129 101 1 deputy -4,526 13101 deputy -218 141 101 deputy 18,6 96 197 This should say 126 not 101 sorry overtime positive 27,884 19919 holiday pay positive 20,000 for a total transform zero move to approve

second motion by Jessica [clears throat] second by Dan comments or questions for Nancy hearing none roll call please I'm sorry go ahead Jim um overtime is that something that we're budgeting for the rest of the year or is this money that's already been spent no That's to get us through the end of the year. And why? So, what's explain all the deputy um

we had multiple deputies this year that have been injured, so then they would go on disability, which means they're leaving money on their regular payline, which is where some of this came from. One deputy was in the military, so he was not drawing salary for six months, which is a chunk of this also. That's why there was excess. Are the deputies all right? We still have unlikely, I believe it is. So, they're back to work. They just can't go out. They've not been released to go work the road yet. Okay. Sorry to hear that. I didn't know that. Further questions?

I one comment. that [clears throat] total out of all these transfers, we're going to uh put another $192,000 into overtime. That's on top of what was already budgeted. Um that indicates that to me that we don't have enough employees to do the work and yet what we're facing in the future, fewer employees. So this this is a problem that's going to continue to to trouble us going forward. I think um I certainly understand and respect your comment as hopefully you will mine. Um it I had a discussion with another department head a while back and to me it maybe it's not logical thinking but to me it seems to me like the more people you have on staff the more people are either going to get hurt the more people are going to call in sick the more people are going to be on vacation and the more people you hire the more overtime you're going to I'm not sure I agree, but interesting thoughts.

Further questions or comments towards NY's transfer request here. Hearing none. Roll call, please. Mr. Blanken, yes. Mr. Mole, yes. Mr. Hughes, yes. Mr. Piper, yes. Mr. Bookout, yes. Mr. Pants. Yes. Mr. Wahhead. Yes. On Whitney.

145. Jail 105101. Sergeant negative 1,238. 125101 Correctional Officer 1,577. 126 101 Correctional Officer -2,252. 134101 correctional officer negative 5,46 197 this should say 126 overtime positive 10,113 for a total transfer zero move to approve second motion by Jessica second by Dan comments or questions hearing none roll call please

I I I do all right um Okay. So, Nancy, just I guess to Jim's point, um your overtimes at the end of September was about 72% in the jail and about similar in in the um for Yeah. Um so that's right on par with where you'd be for the last quarter, but you still anticipate more.

Well, I would rather have it there and we don't need it. No matter what, it comes back to your general fund accounts if we don't spend it. But if we would start having a bad winter where there's a lot of accidents or we have more officers get injured and then we're short-handed or we're at the hospital watching federal inmates which takes two people for every inmate. All that does is force people in work them over which again is more overtime. So if it's not there then I'm panicking and how am I going to fill and pay these people. Okay. Thank you. Further questions or comments? Hearing none. Roll call, please. Mr. Langan, yes. Mr. Hughes, yes. Mr. Piper, yes. Mr. Mole, yes. Mr. Buckoff,

yes. Chance, yes. Forehead, yes. Thank you. All right, moving on. Whitney 1170 lit jail 104101 correctional officer -1523 106 101 correctional officer -2956 108 101 correctional officer -6,048 107 this should say 126 overtime positive 1052 27 for a total transfer of zero. Move to approve.

Second motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Have any questions or comments? Hearing none. Roll call, please. Mr. Langan, yes. Mr. Hughes, yes. Piper, yes. Mo, yes. Mr. Mo, yes. Mr. Kz, yes. Sweethead, yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Nancy. All right, moving on. Whitney

11:35 190 bridge engineer 105101 project director administrator 35,1 57 and 73. 107101 engineer positive 35,157 uh 73 cents for a total transfer of zero. Move to approve. Second. Motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Carrie, you want to explain this to us, please?

Yes. Carrie D. County Highway. So, in February, January, February, we lost our project director. Um, and the commissioners did hire an engineer. So, this is to move the funds that were left in the project director's salary to continue to pay out our engineer. I will let you know that Tanya from the auditor's office um did do the paperwork, get everything filed to get the $40,000 reimbursement from the state. Um we did receive that money last week. So we received it for 25 and then we'll receive it for 26 moving forward. Thank you very much. Any questions for Carrie? Hearing none. Roll call, please. Miss Lang, yes. Mr. Hughes, yes. Mr. Spiper, yes.

Mo, yes. Yes. Mr. Pants. Yes. Wyatt. Yes. Moving on. Whitney 1176 202 a motor vehicle highway 135101 truck driver 30,000 126 overtime positive 30,000 for a total transfer of zero. We have to approve. Second. Motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Questions, comments? Hearing none. Roll call. M. Blanken. Yes. Mr. Hughes, yes. Mr. Spiper, yes. Smoke, yes. Mr. Bookout, yes. Mr. Can Yes. Schwed, yes. Thank you. Thank you, Carrie.

All right, moving on. Whitney 4911 Del Co Fair and Expo 220 operating supplies positive 2500 390 other services and charges negative 2500 for a total transfer of zero. Move to approve. Second motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Comments or questions? What were the uh services that we were talking about? It's to buy um at the we have to buy winter diesel and gasoline which we had to have filled and the rest is just operating supplies to fill the buildings with the things that we need.

How' the pair turn out? It was good. It was real good numbers compared to last year. Pretty close. Um on Mondays we no longer have the carnival the rides part. So Monday was a free day. So we lost some money there but uh we still got paid by the carnival based on last year's Monday night. U that was part of the agreement to finish out this contract. So it was pretty comparable. Any further questions or comments? Hearing none. Roll call, please. Mr. Planken, yes. Mr. Hughes, yes. Piper, yes. Smoke, yes. Mr. Pout, yes.

Mr. Can Yes. Yes. All right, moving on. Whitney

9320 DCCC doc grant 102101 home detention supervisor1,391 104101 case manager 23,54318 1101 Jail division coordinator 2 111101 Jail division case manager $7,91348. 112101 Surveillance Supervisor19,911681 172 Perf positive $32,761.34 for a total transfer of zero. Move to

approve. Second motion by Jessica, second by Dan. comments or questions for Jane? Tell us where the um credits are coming from, especially the 19,000. Uh good morning, Jane Miranda, Community Corrections. This is our Department of Corrections grant and these are positions that um two positions that were vacant for a period of time uh that were not so that money is being transferred to PERF. the surveillance supervisor. The reason why that is so large is we are in the process of kind of restructuring that department and the person that is filling that position at the time is paid out of a different fund. Why is the perf I mean I don't understand why PEF is so high. What what happened there?

Perf is for our entire office. So we pay our own PERF um and we have 22 employees. If I may to help try and clarify. Okay. So PERF's going to get paid out of this grant and not get paid out of project income money. Correct. Because they need to spend the money out of the grant in order to utilize it all the way down to zero the grant. Otherwise, they have to give the money back. So this is a way of being able to spend all the money for the grant and not have to use it out of another fund. Does that make sense, Jim? Yep. Is it normal to have to move PEF though because you're at you used it all already?

Yeah. So a lot of the times towards the end of the year they utilize PERF in what little bit we get we get complete salary partial PERF partial health insurance. So after that gets spent then towards the end of the year we're paying it all of our project income. Okay. Further questions or comments? [clears throat] Hearing none. Roll call please. Mr. Flangen. Yes. Mr. Yes. Fiper. Yes. Smok. Yes. Yes. Mr. Can yes. Yes. Thank you. All right. Moving on. Whitney

11:22 project income 211 office supplies -4,000 221 operating supplies fuel positive 4,000 for total transfer zero. Second motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Comments or questions regarding this transfer? This is your user fee fund. Yes, this is our cash fund. Thank you. Further comments or questions hearing? None. Roll call, please. Langan, yes. Mughes, yes. Spiper, yes. Mogul, yes. Bugout, yes. Canad, yes. Thank you.

Thank you, Jane. All right, moving on to appropriations. 153 Commissioners 106 101 attorney positive $91060 175 Disability Insurance positive $6,322.90 342 Workman's comp insurance positive679241 351 utility service electric positive 200,000 354 utility service sewage positive 65,000 371 that should say rental lease equipment positive 24,000 for a total of 36425.91

to approve Second motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Questions or comments? Wow. Yep. What happened? Which one? Um, so let's start with um the workers comp. I think it was just budgeted incorrectly and we've had more claims than in the past. Come next year, everyone will be paying for their own and these were these are claims, extra claims, not premium increases, right? Correct. Um, so the electric tell me about that.

Hey, hang on. Before you move out from workers comp, Commissioner Bran, can you kind of talk about some of the work you've been doing on this topic for next year? So, specifically as it relates to workers comp, are you talking about liability insurance? Well, in terms of workers comp and is there anything that's being done to try to um manage the claims? Manage the claims. Yeah.

So, we are working on So, there's a way that we can go into uh the workers comp system and manage the claims and show that we are being reactive uh putting in corrective actions to try to avoid accidents and injuries. Um trying to formulate a safety committee which I'm very appreciative of Mr. Ashley has volunteered to be on that committee so that we can uh do analysis of injuries that happened on the on the work site and enter those irreversible corrective actions into the workers comp system and try to avoid those accidents in the future. So right now we do zero reactive and zero proactive on workers comp or accidents. So, we just had an accident last [clears throat] week uh at the highway department and we executed our first safety standown. So, we took the facts of what happened. So, we interview who knows what happened. When we do this, we're not on a search for the guilty. We're trying to find out who has the facts and knows exactly what happened so that we can brainstorm as a team and try to figure out how that won't happen again. And we conducted our first safety standown at the highway department. So, we'll continue to do that in areas where accidents happen.

Thank you. Yeah, sorry, Jim. Good information. Appreciate that. Um, so all of a sudden we have this $200,000 is it electric bill or is it what happened there? Just all of a sudden here it is. We didn't know that it was coming. I don't see the utility bills. They all go straight to the auditor's office. So, I don't see those. Um, I transferred money three times [clears throat] in each line and as soon as I transfer it, it goes straight back in the negative because we get bills and the auditor's office pays them.

So, currently we're at the budget was 404,688 for electric this year. Um, we've used 111% of that. So, we're we're over to her to her point. We have a thing to know how much we've you remember how much we've transferred in this year. [snorts] I have transferred what's this? I've already transferred 56,000. Okay. And that's just since I took over this position in May. Yeah. So,

yeah. When we were in finance on Thursday, we were comparing prior budgets to what we have now. Um, and given what we had before, it wasn't um bucketed out by it was just utilities general. So, we have a better better eyesight now on what type of utilities they're going towards. And looking at past and and what we have going into next year, it looks like we've accounted for it better. So moving forward should be better. Yes. I don't remember what what did the budget look look like for next year? Will do we have it properly budgeted for next year?

That's what I was going to talk about. So I wasn't able to attend finance committee meeting due to a conflict. So I apologize. So if this question was asked and answered in that finance committee um that's great. But [clears throat] did do we know how much was uh allocated or transferred last year? So the way the budget was done prior is they took whatever was in the budget the previous year and added 10% to it. But if your previous year budget number starting points incorrect. Just simply adding 10% doesn't get you all the way to the goal line. So do we know what was transferred last year or prior years? My guess is this is pretty common. So it was just budgeted incorrectly. So to answer your question, Mr. Mochul, I do believe that we have properly budgeted for next year.

So we budgeted the same amount for next year that we budgeted for this year.

Agree with you, Mr. Hughes, and recall that we are working on uh cost reductions for our utility bills, specifically electric. So in this building as an example, there is um a bank of capacitors in the basement uh that are utilized for power factor correction. And the assumption when this building was constructed um was a poor one. And the the assumption was that the building would run three three shifts, basically run 24 hours a day. Well, we all know this building does not run 24 hours a day. basically runs from about 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Therefore, all that extra capacitance that exists in the basement was causing us to pay a higher utility rate. So, we very simply went downstairs and shut off the capacitance. And it looks to me like we're saving somewhere between $7,000 and $12,000 a month in total electricity. So that plus other activities that we're working on to save utility costs. Uh we have a uh I don't want to use the word grant because that gets people excited, but we have a free uh offering from American Electric Power. Uh they've hired a company called Clear Result. I honestly don't believe Clear Result is going to make it all the way to the goal line, but they'll find somebody else. Clear Result or a company like Clear Result is going to come in and do an energy assessment for free. this isn't the uh what was done before at the justice center next door that that we're still paying on. Um and we'll take that energy assessment and react accordingly with grants that will pay for those changes. So I do believe we've budgeted properly even though to your your very accurate point out that we have the same number in but we're working on cost reduction activities so we can meet that goal. A couple points um couple state. So in 2024

you had a majority of the electric bill budget was 787500. That's in 2024. For 2025 the breakout the breakout started. So the original budget in the commissioners was $34. Sorry. All right. So, let me start over. So, in 2024, the budget for electric was in all in the commissioner's budget primarily 787500. 787,500. In 2025, we started at 348 688. We are now up to the or even prior to this, we were up to 404688. to her point about 50ome,000. So now we're going to put another 200 on top of that. So that's going to be 604K in electric even though we allegedly carved out electric for am I saying that right Ed that we did that for this year this year's 2025 budget.

It should be separate. It should be separate. Right. So again, I'm I'm obviously concerned. You know, I mean, we've got a $43,000 budget and highway for electric. We've got a $24,000 um is this just electric though, Commissioner, or is this the 200,000 or is it all just the 200,000 is just for the electric? Yeah, it's all 911's got 28K. Is it just for this building or is it all built? Just sirens. All build. Yeah.

Okay. And you referenced the issue was here with saving money here. Is it is there also issues at the other buildings too? Yeah. What I mentioned earlier with a clear result, we're going to start here because this is the biggest user and go to the justice center and work our way down the line. whatever is going to drive the most money to the bottom line the fastest.

No, I mean I it was just I'm just pointing out the facts I guess um in terms of of spend like you know monthto day we're about 60 grand a month. Um last month we were about 60 grand. Uh, I have to go back and try to trend the rest of the year, but I mean it's probably pu I mean it's got to be pushing that pretty much. So I mean this isn't an accusation. This is just you know hey we we've ignored this for a long time. That was my point about what was allocated in the past. I believe it's probably happened every year. Mhm. Further questions regarding the appropriation. What was what's the run lease the 24,000?

[snorts] It's for our um copers. There was some miscommunication about the contracts.

The copers. So when Yeah. So there was a a mistake in communicating the start date for the new provider and not allowing the termination timeline to be executed. So there was a an overlap, Mr. Hughes, between the two companies. I think when this is the second very large additional appropriation last couple months from the commissioners and and [snorts] when we get it just the day of the meeting to me that's that is what causes the questions and it would be I think more helpful to have more discussion or more documentation ahead of time uh so we can can understand where these big numbers come from. That's just my opinion.

Bill, as far as finance committee goes, I'll try to work harder on getting the notes sent out hopefully to help answer some of these questions. I did in finance committee make a comment to the commissioners that the 24,000 in my opinion should come from their budgets because this is an issue of them not having the contract read thoroughly and making sure their end date and start date of the new one didn't overlap. Did you talk about the $91060 for the attorney? Yes, we did. Would you like to explain that one?

The PI form which is done incorrectly. He's been overpaid slowly but surely throughout the course of the year. He's paying that money back. It's just to get him through the rest of the year. So, you will see this a few times in our appropriations. We're have to appropriate a little bit more money to an employee, but they have all come to the auditor's office, I believe, and agreed to pay the money back. But this gets their line funded through the end of the year, and it's all because of an improper PI form. that PI form process needs completely revamped and I would second that with that.

So, um, can I point something out relative to the attorney? We have a line item of about 32K or something for an attorney salary in addition to a contract for the firm to also be paid separately, right, for the work they done. Um, that makes this person an employee of the county basically. That's correct. But we have a separate contract for their law firm for their purchase services. That's correct.

That seems duplicative. Like ours pays out of contractual services. I would assume if anybody else had to hire a lawyer, they would have to come out of contractual services. Also, I'm confused. I have been confused prior just and this isn't a question for you because I know it was before you but um you know we have an attorney on staff basically but we're we're pay out [clears throat] of two line items so it's and he makes benefits so there's a cost associated with that too is that the only attorney that's an employee I believe so I most of our other attorneys I don't think are employees no Ben is not an employee right

correct Maybe Mr. Hughes, uh, Mr. Murphy on the drainage board might also be treated the same way Mr. Brookke is. So, the county attorneys and the county employee, but then also bills for additional services over about that. That's correct. I don't understand the part about it was somehow overpaid. The PI form was incorrect and the salary portion specifically and that's being deducted now, that overpayment amount. Okay, that's correct. Correct. There's no other attorney line item in the expense report showing for any other departments at least that we track. You aware of any?

It's the amount of the overpayment to the attorney. What was the amount? What was the amount? How much? $910 or something like that if I recall properly. I don't have the number in front of me. And the other attorney that I mentioned with the drainage board was also overpaid. Okay. Both attorneys were overpaid. Yes, sir. due to incorrect PI folks. Okay, that's correct. Is the disability also a um PI issue? No, Marissa told me that um it wasn't accounted for when raises were done last year.

Further questions regarding this appropriation? Just just for my knowledge, is it common that we would have um this duplication? I want to I guess maybe dive a little deeper into that for a second that we have um an employee supposedly employee of the of the U county being a county attorney and then also paying the firm that he's with that is that comment

well I don't know the answer to that but um if you're going to pay a county attorney to be an employee 31,000 isn't enough and if we are paying a county employee or county attorney to be hired as a an attorney for the county explicitly. You would think that you would just we would adjust that salary accordingly and pay him as an employee. We're not. We're paying him as an employee plus whatever contractual services comes out of the commissioner budget or where elsebody pays. Surely he's not a full-time employee. No. Any benefits? Correct. Why is that? Great question.

How do we follow through on that question? Well, I think probably one of the other commissioners would have to be here to answer that because they were the ones that probably initiated that agreement in the first place, I would assume. I I don't know when it originated, but it it there are two attorneys for boards that are considered employees and they get benefits. I think I was done my guess uh when there was a different party in charge. Would you and the other commissioners have a discussion on this topic for us, please? And kind of keep the finance committee at least up to date on your conversations.

Uh what say that again about the boards. So the attorneys for boards, it's been tradition at least in the last decade for them to be paid as an employee and receive benefits. So drainage board. Okay. One I believe is health department. So on the on the attorney's invoice, does he detail how much he was how how what the part of the invoice is his employment responsibility and what part is his is his billable hours over and above his employment? I don't believe I've ever seen employment detailed on a bill. Only activity that they're performing as

that they can that they consider over and above their employee work. Correct. That's all that we see on the attorney's invoices. You know, for example, if they do work for an ordinance or something like that, we see that detail. Is that a conflict of interest? I don't know that answer. That would have to come from somebody with more than a cow and high school education.

Comment real quick here. Looking at the drainage board budget, there are no benefits coming out of that one. So, I might disagree with you on how that attorney is treated. Uh, it sounds like there's a question from council to the commissioners and if you could work on getting an answer on your attorney. He gets his benefits the b the what you're talking about gets their benefits through a different department. Public defender pays Brandon Murphy's benefits. Public defender pays Brandon Murphy's benefits for being on the drainage board. No for being a public defender insurance and disability and all of those things. Yeah. Again, but he is a public defender also.

Yes. So, how was it and go back to another budget and see if there's benefits there? Sure. But to follow up on what the council's asking from the commissioners is to I guess give us an explanation on your attorney and the reason that it's a contract and an employee. It sounds like if you would please. So you want to know when it happened, why it happened, and if it's a conflict of interest. Are those the three questions you want answered? I guess I'd go back and want to inquire why we have someone who's not a full-time employee getting benefits.

We have 264 people that don't work full-time hours getting benefits in the county. You got 260ome people in 32 and a half hours. They're working 80% of the hours and they get 100% of the benefits. They're going to get all 15 holidays next year. They get all their comp time. They get full perf. That that's existed for a long time. And there are reasons for that. I'm not being critical of it. I'm just saying you got a lot of people not working full-time that get full benefits. Like the commissioners and the counselor consider aren't considered full-time but are eligible for benefits. Elected officials. Elected officials. Yeah, sure. I still think that's different. But yeah,

further questions or comments regarding the appropriation? Yeah, I did ask Elizabeth about this 364 total putting us at risk in 2026 and I believe she said we we accounted for additional appropriations for the year. This almost maxes that out. Correct. Okay. Thank you. Further comments or questions regarding this appropriation from the commissioners hearing? None. Roll call, please. Mang. Yes. Mr. Hughes. No. Miss Piper, yes. Smoggle, yes. Out, no. Mr. Can

Yes. Mr. Whitehead, yes. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. [clears throat] Moving on. 141 GIS 101101 Chief Information Officer 1,989.40 for a total of $1,989.40. Move to throw second motion by Jessica, second by Dan questions for uh the note I have. Who's going to be his representative? I think Josh is I'm Josh. I'm here for Kyle. Thank you Josh. This was a paid at 26 pay rate instead of the 27 pay or 27 pays. Correct. And he indicates he'll be repaying this back. Correct.

So this was a PI form issue also. Let's see. Further questions or comments? Hearing none. Roll call, please. Langan. Yes. Mr. Hughes. Yes. Mr. Spiper. Yes. Mr. Mole. Yes. Mr. Rout. Yes, Mr. Can. Yes, yes. Moving on. Whitney 131 County Extension 105101 First Deputy $424.60 for a total of $424.60. Move to approve. Second. Motion by Jessica, second by Dan. More of the same, right?

Same situation. Yes. Yeah. It's been corrected and the wages are being garnished to correct it. Further comments or questions? Yeah. Well, not not for him specifically, but just on this issue. It was unclear to me that our VIP system doesn't have the capability of automatically adjusting pays. So, every year or every five years, whatever the number is where 26 becomes 27, the VIP system has to be manually updated every employee, right? for this seems archaic in terms of its ability to uh manage payroll. Am I wrong?

You are not wrong in my opinion and I think this would be a good topic for us to discuss under new business brought up. Thank you. Further questions or comments regarding this appropriation hearing? None. Roll call, please. Mr. Flangan, yes. Mr. Hughes, yes. Mr. Piper, yes. Mr. Mogul, yes. Mr. Bugout. Yes. Mr. Can. Yes. Mr. Wy. Yes. Thank you. All right. Moving on. Whitney 7202. Inheritance tax going to 1186 rainy day 6,25894 for a total of 6,258 94.

Move to approve. Second. Motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Any comments or questions regarding this one? All righty. Roll call, please. Mr. Planken, yes. Mr. Hughes, yes. Piper, yes. Smoke. Yes. Bugout? Yes. Mr. Can? Yes. Mr. Whead? Yes.

All right. Moving on. 4911 Del Coin Expo 351 Utility Services Electric 10,000 353 utility services water 2,000 354 utility services sewage 4500 536 equipment 10,000 for a total of 26,500. Move to approve. Second [laughter] motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Comments or questions for Donna.

Your electric service. Just don't know. Just

we're we're just short. I mean, I'm hoping that I've over asked the 10,000 and regardless the money, it'll go back to the fair fund. But looking at the bills, looks like we're going to be close. We are going through some of our um lights and stuff that we think can be turned off for the winter to try to save money. Um we've found all of our meters last week cuz we weren't sure where all the meters were. This has been an ongoing thing, but we have found all those meters now. And there are some places we believe uh the electric can be turned off for the winter to help save money. We also had a lively discussion about fees being charged at the fair uh at the fair grounds I should say. Um winter storage things of that nature that uh I think we are losing out on additional revenue to help cover some of the increase in costs and Donna says that they're taking a look at that with the board. Correct. Yes, they're I they're meeting and hopefully going to get it to the commissioners uh sometime next month because the commissioners have to approve any in rate increase. We're very low compared We've been comparing other counties this past week and we're so low. I mean, people will even come in for winter storage and tell us we're the cheapest place around. That's why they come. We don't want to over raise them and lose those people. So it's not going to be like huge increases all at once, but

we need to keep up with the rent inflation. Yes. A fair market value. I would agree with that. Yeah. It's not just winter storage, which I mean that's a big chunk, but like we rent out Hartland Hall all the time, wedding receptions and everything. We are just so cheap compared to other places. We're really not even comparable to most other places. We're so cheap. Further comments or questions for Donna regarding this appropriation? Just just real quick on the utility bills. Uhhuh. Is this is this what you're forecasting you're going to need to finish the rest of the year or is this what we're already short?

No, this is what I'm forecasting that I'm I'm going to need. Sewage just hit us in the face like the rest of the people. Um, our bill went from like 400 and something one month to 800. That's how big of an increase it impacted us with. And we didn't know it. I didn't know why until I talked to Kea and that's why the commissioners and other people are asking for sewage is because of that. Um, it's this should get us through the rest of the year. I'm hoping the sewage will get us through the rest of the year. All right. Further questions or comments? Hearing none. Roll call, please. Mr. Flanken,

yes. Mr. Hughes, yes. Mr. Piper, yes. Mr. Mole, yes. Mr. Book, yes. Mr. Can? Yes. Mr. Whead? Yes. Thank you, Donna.

One more question if I could. I I forgot to ask. What is the equipment, machinery equipment? Um, we're installing new doors with breaker bars in H Heartland Hall. Some of them are almost falling off, but it's something that's needed to be done for a long time. Um, also we're buying tools that somehow our tools disappear a lot. Um, with our new uh grounds person, these new tools will be locked up, so they shouldn't disappear. He's had to take things home to work on them and repair them. He went to get a shovel and a rake one day. There was none to be found. So, he had to go buy a shovel and a rake for what he was going to do. So, we're trying to get our tools built back up and hopefully they'll stay.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Moving on, Whitney. 8109 Chirp 101 Chirp Grant 124,200 for a total of 124,200. Move to approve. Second. Motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Captain Johnson was here last month and discussed this appropriation. Are there any comments or questions for Nancy? Nancy, could you just describe this real quick for the record? Uh, this is one of the outside patrols that they do. I can't honestly tell you what church stands for offand comprehensive highway and that's as far as I can remember. Um it's a reimburseable grant

from the state from the state for operation pullover was one of the names it used to be. Um so it's for drunk driving patrols um and just different facilities like that. School bus patrol. Understood. Thank you. Just wanted to [clears throat] further comments or questions hearing none. Roll call, please. M blanket. Yes. Mr. Hughes. Yes. Piper, yes. Smoke, yes. Smokeout, yes. Mr. Can yes, yes. 18. Thank you.

1,200 public defender supplemental fund 173 health insurance 37,490 459 for a total of 37,459. Move to approve. Second. Motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Just a quick explanation here, please.

A quick explanation is that we again where I'm transferring uh in county general for I'm sorry, Shelley Harvey public defenders office. We are taking the rest of what we need to get through insurance um from our supplemental fund. Uh heads up, I'm going to be requesting more out of the supplemental fund next year to finish up in or next month, I'm sorry, to finish up insurance uh shortfall. So, I'm sorry. So, you you're pulling it out of there basically. Is that what you mean?

It Yes, I'm taking that out of our supplemental fund for my shortfall. I'm sorry. In general, you're taking it for the shortfalls you have in county general. Yes. Yes. And the for the rest of the year, um, our insurance will be taken out of our the supplemental account for the insurance. And I' I've spoken to the auditor's office about that.

Further comments or questions for Shelley? [snorts] Hearing none. Roll call, please. Swanken. Yes. Muse. Yes, Piper. Yes, Mr. Mo. Yes, Mr. Bookout. Yes, Mr. Can. Yes, Mr. Whitehead. Yes. Thank you. All right. Motion to approve financial transfers and to amend salary ordinance with like reductions. Second. Motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Roll call. Miss Flangen? Yes. Miss Hughes? Yes. Smoggle? Yes. Mout? Yes. Spiper? Yes. Mr. K. Yes. Mr. Whitehead. Yes.

Council has the back filling report in front of them. Motion to receive the back filling report. Second. Motion by Bill. Second by Dan. Roll call. Miss Planken. Yes. M. Hughes? Yes. Mr. Smokle? Yes. Mr. Moout? Yes. Spiper? Yes. Mr. Can? Yes. Mr. Whead? Yes. Thank you. Moving on to ordinances and resolution. We have ordinance 2025-25 for first reading to uh a first reading of salary ordinance 2025-25.

Second motion by Jessica, second by Dan. We have two things that are asked for uh updating. We'll start with uh Commissioner Brand section Nine page four. You give us a brief request. Certainly. So section 9 uh relates to part-time job classification levels, not all of them because uh we're only talking about section A, not necessarily uh what would have been section A through D before. Um combined them all into one. uh we didn't touch uh part E, F, or G. And what we discovered was we had some part-time folks that were being paid at rates that were not in the salary ordinance. Um so they were maybe being paid, I'll make it up, they were being paid $15 an hour, but the salary ordinance that was there before only had a 14 and $16 level. So, but they might not have necessarily had the qualifications like advanced training or certifications to move up to the next level. And nobody wanted to take away their pay. uh discovered this in a couple situations both through attrition and just uh finding gaps in PI forms. So this modernizes the the section A through D and just makes it one large range from $12 to $20. And we took what you'll see in section or in uh I number two, three, and four. We took from the old B, C, and D and put those explanations in the in a single section. So this gives the ability to have a range rather than specific pay ranges in the part-time level.

So there had previously been a pay rate of $12 an hour, $14 an hour, $15 an hour, $20 an hour, right? And we had people at 16. We had people at 18. You know, how that happens, I have no idea, but that's what was surfaced during the audit. Well, I'm for uh just simplifying this uh offering some flexibility, giving department heads and elected officials the ability to utilize part-time hours more effectively because I think we're going to need to do that um potentially in the future. So, uh, I'm fine with this description.

My comment would be that council approves the part-time amount budget and it is going to make us need to be more diligent on our transfers and what we approve in the budgets. But I also like the idea of the department heads and elected officials being able to determine what they feel is necessary as part-time and hourly rate. I agree with that. Further questions regarding section 9 for Commissioner Brand.

All righty. Thank you. Thank you. The other part is section seven page three. at this.

So, there was we we've at least the finance committee has talked about um a little bit of a revamp back to um approving new hire vacant positions. So, we just p we just um basically blanket approved the um backfill report for positions that are being replaced in the county based on solely that there's money available to do so. Um I think we've talked at nauseium at this point about next year and a couple of uh challenges we're going to be facing financially. Um we have a couple of options in front of us. We've talked about the 32 and a half hour versus 40hour work week that the commissioners are are discussing. Um I think that we have to be uh extremely diligent about attrition and bringing vacant positions to um the finance committee and to the council for approval. Once again, um not so much no AD line item like we had to deal with before, but to bring before and discuss um the needs for replacement positions. Um as Commissioner Brand has talked about multiple times about what they've done with some of the commissioner departments, um altering new hires to be 40-hour work week hires. Um I think we have to have meaningful discussion with department heads as things come up. So what this this needs work still. So um I'm going to go over some of the things that I think need to be adjusted um and and then maybe we table this or or just wait for our second reading, you know, next next time. But um in lie of establishing just a straight up hiring freeze, which is option probably B of of

what we've what we're going to look at here today, um we're trying to make some adjustments so that we can as a council see what positions are going to be replaced and and have discussions with department heads and elected officials about those. Um that's the goal of this language. So with that um on section 7 number C um it indicates prior to posting the vacancy the human resource director shall first notify the council finance committee and obtain permission to post the position. Um section D is also um added back in I believe upon receipt of permission of the council finance. The HR director shall post the vacancy and refer all applicants on file and all new applicants received to those department heads. So basically the process of of of that um posting of the job uh we probably should change that human resource to director to whatever

human resource leader. Yeah, I think it was in there five different times.

The director position. Yeah, we'll we'll get that adjusted. Um, then there's I have a question on section E. It says upon selection of an individual to fill the vacancy, the department head or office holder shall submit the request to the county auditor for approval by the council. Um, if any additional appropriation related to the vacancy is requested, it must be submitted to the council along with the hiring request. To me, that's a duplicative request and a duplicative approval. Um, we basically want to review a vacant position assuming it before it's actually posted. So, this is actually after that's that's happened. This is actually we found somebody and now we got to go get approval again from the council. I'm not sure that that language is necessary. So that's something we I want to I think we should look at um in section F.

Can I can I just for a second? Yeah, go ahead. So understand that the finance committee is going to at this particular point in time make the recommendation on hiring uh for a position or not. Is that kind of where we're at? and that the uh overall council has no position in that uh request. That's what this languish states does mean that that's how it's going to go. Okay. Um and that and I guess that

put that around real quick. The other thing that I'm thinking is that if somebody's in dire need of of a position to be filled, uh, can they wait until we as a council decide whether we're going to allow that position to be filled or not? I don't So, I don't know. It's that's the goal of this. I guess it's to slow down the hiring process and to bring to to bear the the conversations we're going to need to have around, you know, positions, you know, in 2026 and 2027.

If it's an emergency, we can always have a special meeting. Not ideal, but it has been done before.

But to Jim's point, um, it only indicates the finance committee. It does not indicate the full council. So, but that's a that's a discussion point I think um because I do believe because section F then says upon the approval um of the council once the person has once we've approved that yes we're going to post a position um it has been posted they have found somebody um that approval um has already been done basically. So I think we this is where the language has to be. We have to tweak this because right now it's not clear number one and number two it's um I believe that it should come before the full council not just the finance committee.

[clears throat]

Um but then in section F, this is a a little bit of a separate topic, but um once the council has approved and they've hired somebody, the department head or office holder shall complete the employee personal information form as amended from time to time and submit the completed form. It currently reads to the human resources director and the county auditor for approval. Commissioner Brand has brought up that about the PI process and his recommendation is that the form go directly to the auditor's office which is where payroll is done because the personal information form is simply a payroll form to go to the auditor's office and that we maybe add language that it goes to the auditor for approval signature and entering into the payroll system. Um, so that's language that that needs to be adjusted.

I think it requires a discussion of between the auditor's office and HR.

Okay. Okay. So, we'll I mean that's something we take up as we're as we're finalizing this. Let's come up with something there. Um because the next sentence a copy of the PI form is attached. I don't think that's necessary here. I think we can strike that whole next two sentences. Um and then in submitting the form, the department head or office holder affirms that he or she has complied with the provisions of section 7. Uh in G upon approval and completion of the PI form uh upon approval and completion by the council, I don't think we are going to have any role in the PI form. So I don't think it's necessary. If it reads anything, it probably should just read the auditor if that's where we end up. Um and then you know they can they can hire uh section 8 is or H is unchanged. So it needs a little bit of work but ultimately that's the theory behind the change and open it up for discussion.

So I think that one of the the first things I noticed upon reading this to Jim's point too was about it going to finance committee. I and uh we talked about it during finance committee briefly that I do believe it should be a full council um decision. The other thing I want to bring up just for everyone's reference um and and Bill probably remembers because he was council our council attorney at the time but in 2020 we did actually have a hiring freeze ordinance that we utilized so that we wouldn't need any of of this u and that ordinance was 2020-015. I don't know if you had a chance to to pull that or not, Eugene. Um,

got a copy right here.

But during that So during that time that we had that hiring freeze in place um on our transfer agenda, the little the magic motion or whatever that we read every uh month after our transfer agenda, excuse me, transfer and appropriation agenda. just added the language. Actually, the full motion read to approve financial transfers and to amend salary ordinance with like reductions and to amend hiring free hiring free ordinance 2020-015. So, that did allow us to make those emergency hires during that phrase mostly for public safety and building maintenance uh is what we were able to do there. I think on occasion I think we had one for Rick for in the election office or something. We did have to make some uh adjustments there, but that's that's how we handled that situation most recently.

Further comments?

Well, [clears throat] I don't think we're to a hiring freeze stage quite yet. Um, but the way I look at this, whether it's the council or the finance committee, either one, I don't know what the criteria is for approving or not approving a new a replacement. Um, it's so it seems to me we're we're kind of ahead of ourselves. We we have a budget for 2026 and it has x number of positions funded. So if if one of those people leaves in January or February, I would expect the department head or elected official to replace that person. I don't think there'd be any special permission needed going into 2027. We need to, as we know, have a better handle on what our finances are going to be, what our revenue is going to be, and then I think we need a plan. to say the clerk's office needs to have two fewer employees or whatever the case may be. So, we have some criteria so that department heads and elected officials can anticipate what what they're going to need to do in order to uh meet budgetary requirements. And maybe that'll be taking 32 and a half hour people up to 40 to to fill in. We have to have some plan. This to me is sort of operating on an ad hoc basis. And I don't I don't know how the how the finance committee or how the council would say no, we're we're not going to let you fill that position. I don't know what the criteria would be until we have

a better handle on what our revenue is going to be and and you know what we can afford. I would I would um throw a couple cents in here if I could. Um I'm not in a disagreement with your comments. U however, I think looking forward to not looking forward maybe a better word to 2027's budget. to me if we can if we can um ease into this if you will and uh I don't know that any of us have the this isn't all written in stone. I don't know that any of us really know what quite what to anticipate, but I think if we if we start the process that we'll be more accustomed um a year down the road as to a better direction as to uh what we may need to do uh precautionary I guess is that if we do nothing next year then all of a sudden we might find ourselves in a position in the following year's budget to have to make drastic changes that I think um again we're shoot if we do a drastic change we're exactly kind of what you talked about today uh just now and having to make a lot of uh rational or irrational decisions based on a quick timeline. This gives us in my opinion a little more time uh to try to go by trial and error uh just to see what we feel like will work uh and maybe what's not going to work uh with department heads and their people. And uh so I think uh in my opinion I I like the idea of easing into this uh one person at a time versus saying we have

to cut two people you know like yesterday and uh just see where it goes. I don't know that any of us really know at this particular point in time how it's going to work out but I would I would be in favor of starting the process.

Rick, do you have a comment? Yeah, Rick Spanger, Delaware County Clerk. Um, my first thought being an elected official and there not all the elected officials are up here and we're just hearing about this today. I do think whether you go forward with this or not, I'd like to have a meeting of the elected officials with the council so we could talk about the language in this and how we would handle it. Um, you know, you guys, I don't mean this in a bad way, but there's not a one of you up there that can tell me what my judgment clerk does. So, how are you going to tell me whether or not I need to replace her immediately or not? And you know, I got 22 employees. Each of them have a job and most of them back up another job. So, you know, not not to be totally against this thing, but what I would like to do if we're going if you're going to go forward, and I know you know, you've got some issues in here that even you guys don't agree with. Let's sit down with all the parties. you know, let's talk with all the players, the elected officials, department heads, and the council, and try to find a way to go forward rather than than coming in with this and and you know, I'm I'm not big on trial and error, Jim. I'm I'm sorry. We need to wait till we got exact numbers. Once we know what the state's going to do, uh then we'll know how to react to to what we got. um just you know we're we're running around like a pancer on fire on this Senate Bill one and you know there's a short session coming up here in next year and I think that's going to be revisited pretty heavily because there's going to be every every municipality [clears throat] and every uh county is going to be down there asking our legislator you know what the hell you guys do.

Thanks Rick. I agree with you. I think that that would that uh meeting of the heads would be outstanding. I think it is what needs to happen for planning purposes. Um, so I appreciate that. Um, I don't disagree that the criteria the bill outlines doesn't exist. That that is true and without a hiring freeze, there really isn't one um to to to instill. What [clears throat] I will say, I'm sorry. I'm I'm sorry. I shouldn't have.

Um, but what I will say is we had only one significant department um this year during budget come to us with significant gains in cost efficiencies, work efficiencies, power efficiencies, etc. And had the commissioners not done that work, we would I mean we wouldn't have reached the the area what we did with our budget for next year. And I have yet to have anybody else come to us with any um ideas of how they're going to gain efficiencies. Uh you know, not rehire based on attrition um things of that nature. And those are the conversations that I think need to happen to your point.

In in our defense, uh we weren't told of the shortage. As a matter of fact, we were told, you know, to figure raises for our people. And so we weren't prepared for that. Trust me, if you say in 2027, you come to the clerk's office and say, "You know what I'd rather have you say is you got to cut $100,000, don't don't tell me I got to get rid of one or two or three." Say, "Let me run the department." I was elected to be clerk of the county. So, say, "Here's what you got. Spangler get the job done." I don't disagree with that either. I didn't think you would. [laughter] Thank you. Um, so, you know, getting more efficient in 2026 is the goal. So this if this stimulates the conversation, great. If you know we're in agreement to

to do something. I think just having bringing to the table that was the goal initially is to bring it to the table to say, hey, um we really everybody needs to look and and whether we know the exact numbers or not, we're never we're not going to know. We're going to, you know, hopefully the commissioners will be approving some scope with the um with Baker Tilly to work with the strategic financial planning committee that we put together to try to um um you know, spitball basically the you know, plan for 2026 until we can get some finalized numbers um from them. So, we don't we're working there's no doubt we're working from you know, not a lot of information. Um, but we do know that it's not going to get any better than it is today. So, that's that's the that's the overriding goal. Um, I actually this morning when we were meeting with uh Brad and and Eugene and uh told Eugene that I I had, you know, I'm actually this was my initial idea. At the same time, I actually think the hiring freeze is actually more prudent and probably more of the criteria we should be utilizing to to analyze the uh you know, replacement positions. But to Bill's point, the budget is in place. Um it's there. I just think that we're going to need to have a sit down with everybody to have a where are we going to go from here? Um plan with with all of our department heads and elected officials. So, if that's our next step, that's great.

Thank you, Matt. Dan, did you have a comment? Um, I think that we all agree this is going to need some adjustment, some work. So, I'm not opposed to bringing it in and seeing how it works so we have the problem kind of fine-tuned by the time that we actually if we have to make those unfortunate decisions. So, if you're open to it, President uh Mr. President, I will work on language with Ben um initially so that we can stimulate this conversation and uh and have a a meeting of the mind meeting. I think uh when is your typical department head meeting? Second Monday of the month. Okay. And maybe we can do it because Commissioner Brand hosts a a um department head meeting um currently, but we also may have to have something more legally.

I would hope that few of us would be able to inform council at that meeting. Yep. The next one's on November 10th currently. So, if we can try to maybe get something done by then, I will uh I will try while I'm on vacation. I mean, as soon as you get some language that you're comfortable with, send it to the rest of council so we can be reviewing it and have questions answered if needed. Okay. Prior to the 10th because we want to make sure it's clear if we're going to at least have something to present to elected officials, department heads. All right. Other comments or questions regarding the salary ordinance? All right, we have a motion, a second for first reading. Roll call, please. Miss Blanket, yes.

Mr. Hughes, yes. For introduction. Mr. Mogle, yes. Mr. Sto, yes. Spiper, yes. Mr. K, yes. Yes. Mr. Brian, what time is that meeting? Are we going to need to post that then? If

if only three of us or less attend, then it will not need to be posted. It's just a meeting that commissioner has for department heads. So, I just want to make sure that hopefully a a close to final draft is ready by that time. So way just important discussions can be had and conversations can be had there. All righty. Uh moving on to appointments and committee reports. Council has in front of them list council appointments. I'm going to read the ones that expire. I'm going to read them all and then I'll go back and clarify some. But all them going to expire at the end of 25. I'll call Beverage Commission, Animal Care and Services Board, County Council Attorney, Council Finance Committee, Devil Economic Board, Delaware County Redevelopment Commission, the Fairgrounds Board, Property Tax Board of Appeals, Tax Abatement Committee, the Information Technology Board, and the EMA Advisory Council are filled by council members, and we appoint those annually. In my notes from the auditor's office, the Petaboa board is the only one that has to be a balanced board of what we reappoint.

Pardon me,

the property tax board of appeals. The county council finance committee of course is going to be filled with council members and the rest of them council will appoint at their discretion at their will. I will work with uh Marissa on the list of those that the council will appoint that's not going to be filled by council members to be posted online and they'll reach out to the auditor's office for those that are interested in serving in those positions. Are there any comments regarding board appointments? Because we do have to mention it two meetings before we make those appointments. So, we plan on making those in December.

Under the rules, we're supposed to establish a date persons to submit names. I thought in there it said December 1st, but if it doesn't, I sure would like December 1st. December 1st, it's to be distributed to all council members. Well, how about then November 30th?

November 30th is a Sunday. What's that? Friday the 28th. Pretty after Thanksgiving. So now now we're at Wednesday the 26th before Thanksgiving is going to be all right. That works.

So just to be clear, it's it's your rule, [clears throat] excuse me, 5.03. The council shall see that the listing of open positions is publicized and establish a deadline for persons to submit their name uh with their own name or the names of others who may have an interest in serving. So the the deadline is arbitrary. It's up to you. But the next rule does say that the list such as it is will be distributed to members of the council no later than December 1st. I guess does that give the auditor's office enough time if we say Wednesday the 26 and then we have to have it sent out to us by the Monday after that holiday. the week of Thanksgiving or the week of December 1st.

End of day one day. Yeah. And then unfortunately we don't receive that many inquiries on, you know. Well, last year I noticed they still have secretaries. Okay. Well, if I can get a consensus, how we'll make it Wednesday, November 26th to the auditor's office for anybody that's interested in serving on the boards for me. All right. Any other appointments or committees not on the agenda that want to speak?

Yes. um from an IT perspective. So um a handful of departments and folks have been working with uh Google on a Google Workspace trial. Um I know Ed, they're desperately trying to get a hold of you and your department on your feedback. Um if anybody else who is participating can provide Eric Clark from Google or Bruno who's been hosting the um Google um weekly or bi-weekly uh touch bases on questions and things that would be great. Um we're going to be having to look at a proposal from from Google to uh you know before the end of this year and I think the trial ends this week or something. So, um it's tough because it takes you out of your uh existing workflow into the Google workflow. Um but anybody who's uh participating in that who can um provide some guidance, I would greatly appreciate it. Um I know Kyle is out of the country currently, but he has been a big proponent of of this process and and indicates that he's um his feedback has been very positive. So, um, I think that's really it for my right now. Other committees, right? I didn't have any old business on the agenda. New business. After working with Marissa, we'll put together a 2026 meeting schedule, send it out to council. Hopefully council's had time to review that. And are there any concerns or comments on those dates?

With [clears throat] no new elections, we don't have to have a organization meeting on a first. Correct. That's correct. I'm not sure that is corre I mean I don't think it literally has to be the first, but you do have to organize. Well, I'm sorry. Yeah, I mean you have to organize every year and elect. Okay. Yes, but we just don't have to do it on the first since we don't have new members. Sorry, misunderstood. No, that's I may not have been clear. I need to formally approve this. I would I'll move to approve the 2026 meeting schedule.

Second motion by Jessica, second by Dan. I guess now, do we have any comments, concerns, or questions regarding those dates? I'm assuming that when you were working on it, I didn't get a chance to go look that you accounted for when spring and fall breaks fall. Okay. Hearing no other questions or comments or concerns. Roll call, please. Mr. Blanket, yes. Mr. Hughes, yes. Smoke, yes. Mr. Bookout, yes. Sper, yes. Mr. KZ, yes.

Yes. Marissa, if you would also post that online so that way we have that. Other new business I would like to at least discuss the idea of and I'd like to hear the auditor's opinion on it. Moving to a 24 pay system versus the current 2627 every 11 or 12 years whatever it is and what are the pros and cons [clears throat] give you an answer off the fly. [laughter] I guess I just what is your thought overall thought of it and then if we need to dig into the details we can later.

Obviously the pro is you're going to have two less payrolls to process. The con is for the employees they don't have to measure money much better because don't get paid twice a month versus every other week. And the benefits that they come out 24 26. So the Okay. So, benefits come out 24 times per year because we get build monthly. Because we get build monthly, right? So, there are pays that are odd or two pays that are different this year.

Yeah. I guess in the department head meeting that might be a topic that gets discussed and just check the temperature of the room and see what what might be. Uh I Ben has told me that the county executive sets the frequency of pays to either monthly, semionthly, [clears throat] bi-weekly or weekly based off Indiana code. That would fall on the commissioners. Okay. And it's also in the handbook I believe. um the the number the frequency of pays. So I don't even know why it's currently listed as by week.

It would be a disruption from our standpoint because right now we have a process down we have a date every week of what needs to be done. Now we're instead of look at from certain day dates. So that could possibly create an issue with departments trying to follow dates. [clears throat] It just seems like PI forms have been an issue since I've been on council and I was trying to come up with a way to simplify it and thought this was an idea. I'm not saying it's a golden fix by any means, but so I wanted to have the discussion. So the comment or question was about the department head meeting. So the second Monday of every month, the commissioners have a staff meeting with all the department heads that fall under the commissioners. And we have discussed this a couple times about going to 24 pays. Um I'd make a note that 10 months of the year they only get two pays already. So about managing their money and things like that. So we've had those open discussions and it was a concern. Um the benefits as uh auditor Carol had said is you process payroll two fewer times. So it's two fewer opportunities for error or you know things like that and it opens up efficiencies in the department to do that. Um, in my experience, anybody that's executive or um, exempt uh, per the Fair Labor Standard Act, they typically get paid twice a month anyway. They would get paid on the 15th and the last day of the month because last day of the month's not always the same depending on what month you're talking about in the calendar. If that last day, if the 15th or the last day of the month fall on a weekend, it defaults to the Friday before. So, you know, to me, it makes a lot of sense to go to 24 pays. standardizes everything. Uh example, this year there are 27 pays, but benefits are being taken out 24 times. Um you know, next year we're going to have 26 pays and the commissioners just approved the premium uh grid in the last meeting and then after the meeting I was told, I didn't

know this before, that it's only taken out 24 times. So, we're going to have to amend that ordinance to go to a 24 deduction, which is going to increase the amount that's going to come out of people's paycheck instead of going to the because they're getting 26 pays next year. So, if you divided the total premium by 26, it's going to be lower than 24. The prior pay grid said per pay also though, right? Sorry. The prior insurance pay grid also said per pay. So, it wasn't it's not really per pay. per it's 24 times divided by whatever. That's what I learned after the last commissioner meeting is and and I believe auditor Carol just confirmed it with with his initial comments that uh we get build once a month.

Therefore, it comes out on for 24 times and [clears throat] I don't know if we can talk to it. It's McGriff now was Apex. We have a new player. Maybe we can talk to them about billing it on our terms. You know, some that works for us rather than letting our vendors tell us what to do. I I prefer the former to be honest with you. I like telling our vendors what to do, what works for us.

And generally to your to your question, uh, President Whitehead, the the department heads have wrapped their head around 24 pays with the commissioners. They don't love it, but they've wrapped their head around it. seems from a simpl simplification standpoint for the county itself it would make logical sense and avoid 5 to 10 11 however many years that happens on the 27 pay thing. Um so okay since the commissioners determined this I would personally speaking with the rest of council would highly encourage commissioners to evaluate that and I'd recommend going to 24 pays. Okay. Other comments regarding this topic. All right. Hearing none. Elected officials and department heads. [laughter] While I'm here, uh couple cost savings ideas that we're working on right now. We're working a big one. Uh and I started with what's going to drive the most money to bottom line the fastest. That's why we worked on what we worked on last year. Now liability insurance is in our crosshairs. That's a big one for us. Um I do believe that there's a significant opportunity. Uh our current liability carrier is on a commission basis and that is uh foreign to me. Most my experience in the past was they would be on a fee basis and that would be a significant uh reduction. Also analyzed the uh rate that we pay per $100. And as an example, we are paying in the county 11 cents per 100 and the average uh for employers in our area that we compete with for people uh are about 6.7 cents. So I think there are a couple things that I've asked um USI to take a look at. I've also made them aware that we are looking at their fees and I'm working with a couple of other companies

to give us estimates on our liability insurance. Um, that was one of the big ones that Mr. Hughes made a comment about earlier that we came and asked for a big increase. It was on the liability insurance. If you recall, uh, our annual premiums are like $1.3 million, but we had only budgeted $880,000. So, that was a big appropriation that had to come before. Um, I believe we can get back down into that range where we were budgeted previously. You know, I I believe that we could save four or $500,000 on our liability if we go for it. Uh, another one that we're working on is our phone system. Um, my belief is we don't need any desk phones. Um, any modern organization works off of communications through Teams or Zoom or or something like that. Um, but we pay for all the phones that are on our contract today. So, we had asked our our provider to give us a list of usage and they gave us a list back of the almost 500 phones that exist in the county and almost 50 of them never nobody ever hears a dial tone, but we're paying for those 50 phones. If you look deeper in the uh report, there are almost 130 phones that have less than 10 minutes a month worth of usage. So, we can probably start off right off the bat, just eliminate 130 phones and stop paying for them. Uh, but if we can get all the way to what I believe the goal should be, which would be to eliminate desk phones, uh, we could probably save 70 to $100,000 a year. So, that's something else we're working on. And then, um, finally is our paper product supplier. They also supply all of our filters for our HVAC. Uh, taking a look at that. Um, saw a couple of invoices for filters. um maybe 25 times what I was used to paying for our filters for our big filters for our HVAC and then started looking into what we're paying for paper products and this is a little bit of a continuation on the copier

thing. Um I do believe we're overpaying for our paper products. So those are the three things that actively working on. Thanks for reminding about me about the phones. I that's what I the other item I was trying to remember about the IT thing. But um to Commissioner Bran's point, um there was the 50 have zero and there's if there's less than 10 calls a month, that's the 130 number in this spreadsheet. Um we're meeting with them tomorrow, I believe.

That's right. uh to have this discussion and then I was going to send this out to probably everybody uh or at least the elected official department heads and um show them the list and have you guys go through them in detail and carve out any others that we think that can be consolidated at a minimum. So the goal I think our goal is probably around 200 for this wave and see if because we're going to quote this out to other vendors and we need a number to give them. Um, I've already gotten at least one other option for us, but um, so anyway, that's the heads up on that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Other elected officials and department heads.

Good morning, council. Tony Skinner, Delaware County Sheriff. um the first reading the the thing that you guys went through a little bit ago. Um and I'd only speak for myself, but I probably speak for some other department heads and elected officials. Um historically with the hiring, public safety has always been excluded. I hope that you continue that tradition. Um, I know that for myself, if we have an opening in the jail, which we frequently do, the jail's probably has the most turnover of any county, um, entity, um, and and we just can't sustain having [clears throat] gaps in that. Uh, I know that dispatch and EMS are probably the same way. So, I I I hope that you continue that tradition of um excluding public safety for that freeze or anything you're considering for the future. Uh the second thing is uh the 24 pays. I've I've under my breath wondered for years why we didn't do that already. So I fully support that. Um and then lastly, um I'm I'm going to have to check with our pension plan, but I'd like to at some point in the future, hopefully by January, move to um having our payments made to our pension plan instead of being quarterly, move those to monthly. Um, sometimes they're they're late, sometimes they're on time. Um, I I think if moving those to monthly, um, probably would be easier for the auditor's office, although I don't know. I don't know how they operate on on automatic payments. Um, but I I think it would be uh more consistent and and for us I think that would be a benefit. So that's something I'm going to check on

our end, see if it's in the plan, if it has to be approved. If so, who has to approve it or whatever, but I'm kind of floating that idea out there now. Um, not asking you to even discuss it. I'm just throwing it out there right now that at some point I'd like to bring that to you if it's something that you have to approve. So those are my three things. Thank you, Sheriff. If you would counsel the commissary report, quarterly report that were required to be given was presented to us and I want to thank you and Nancy for getting that. Thank Nancy. Thank you Nancy. [laughter] But I just wanted to make record of that that we received it. Yep. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.

Other elected officials and department heads. [laughter] Gavin Green, Delaware County Corner. Uh wanted to come and give the update on our numbers uh from the corner's office for the number of calls that we have. Um as of this morning, we've had 578 uh calls generated for the coroner's office and that is from homicides, natural deaths, uh unexplained that we have to go out and investigate. Um and so that tracks to be around 694 uh cases for uh projected for 2025. That actually increase surprisingly enough is not um from my office been from any additional overdoses or any homicides, but there has been a lot of referred cases from other counties hospitals or our hospital. When it comes to injuries, when it comes to elderly people or anyone else that would fall and break some sort of limb, hip, leg, femur, anything like that, that we get referred those cases and we have to review them no matter what. Um, so it might not be one that we go out on, but I know right now I want to say I have about 20 cases that I'm having to look at medical records just because of injuries that were naturally sustained that normally would be referred by a doctor would sign it, but because there's an injury um that we have to review it. So

who submits the referral? Um, the doctors do. So IU Baltimore Hospital contracts with a company that reviews all their death certificates and they'll get all the information and then they'll look over those medical records. The hospital would say this is a natural death and then the doctor goes to look at all the records and say no not the doctor the liability company probably. No, it's a doctor. I mean not the who who signs off on the death certificate? Probably the the physician, right? Yes. From IU. Correct. They pass it to somebody else who does risk management or liability review or whatever. Then it comes to you.

No, that so either a doctor can sign it or I will sign the death certificates. And so the the doctor will say am I going to put my name on this saying this is the cause and manner that which someone died. Right. If they don't sign it, they say nope, there was an injury, then it gets kicked over to me and then I have to review it at our expense. Yes. So if someone falls and breaks their hip and it gives them enough trauma that they unfortunately pass. Correct. That's a case that the doctor may say, "I want you to look at it and it's our expense to look at it."

Correct. And that might be several days after the fact that someone breaks their leg last Saturday and they had surgery, they've been in the hospital, and they just don't recover and then they pass away. We weren't initially called at the initial injury, but once they pass, there's a SOP that IU Health reviews um that says why a corner should or should not be um contacted. Well, if they fell in the nursing home and they haven't passed away, we would not be we wouldn't be called, but as soon as they pass away and then we find out. So then we basically a week behind the the ball trying to investigate to find out what happens. How much time per case does that take?

I mean, just the ballpark like takes you couple hours to review something like that. It takes you two days. Well, when I came to when I came to council last month and I talked about there's a delay, it's weeks if not months because we're trying to get medical records, trying to interview people. I would say probably 90% of those cases um myself or Riannan will do. So it wouldn't be on our part-time people. Um but it's hundreds of hours. Is this the same across the state? Yes. It's relatively new. Like my my grandma fell in 2010 and broke her hip and had hip replacement surgery and then passed

and I don't remember the coroner being involved then. So, so maybe the doctor just chose to go ahead and sign off.

Correct. So, it is and when I took when I took office, I had discussions with the local health department because there would be a time where they say if any broken bones within the last year, it has to be signed by the coroner. And I kind of gave some push back and said, "No, that's not the case." Because if they fell and they broke their finger, but they had cancer and then the doctor puts, "Well, yeah, the contributing factor of broken finger, that's not what killed that person." Um, and so I pushed back and I got with the state health department and they said, "If it's not a the leading cause of death or a contributing factor that if that wouldn't have happened, then no, the coroner does not have to sign." So if your grandmother, if your example were broken her hip, but other contributing factors or she died from something else, it was just a bad circumstance, she also had a broken hip, then the coroner would not be involved. So and that's where we pushed, we have pushed back um council person can with the hospital and when it gets referred to us, we have a little button that can reject the case and say no, we're not going to sign off on this. it that did not kill them. Um but if it does get it, then that kind of starts the time. And we've had um Rianna just had a conversation with the local health department. Our numbers are the highest they've been in our queue waiting to be signed in three years because the number of medical records that we have to pull, we have to request, we have to subpoena and look through. And the problem is one medical you don't just say give me the medical records for this event. I have to subpoena records all of your records uh Matt for all of time and I'll have a

thousand pages. So then you have to then dissect it and look at events look at dates. What's the health department's role?

They are the registars of the actual death certificate. So I mean the efficiency is I could go on but I the the death certificate gets sent to me. I sign it once I sign it then it goes to health department and they register it with the state and then they get that's where either the funeral home or the families will go and get a death certificate. The coroner's office just signs them. We don't actually produce them. It's a huge burden too to the families who are waiting because there are a lot of finances. Anyone who's had to deal with uh loss of a loved one, there's a lot of things that you can't get done. No

until you have that death certificate. So that's that's a burden on their family, too. Yes. I mean, I don't know what the answer is obviously, but you know, it just it's a it's a burden to the county taxpayer as well. Yes. I mean, and again, it's I don't I don't normally stress out about things, but it's something that does keep me up at night, and I know that it also affects Rian and talking about because of the backlog.

Yeah, because of the backlog and to talk um in reference to Commissioner Brand about the telephones. I would love to see the data on our telephone because our phone is ringing nonstop with families in funeral homes um calling finding out where it is because funeral homes typically can't get paid until they get their death certificates so they can file for their insurance to pay everything off. I mean, I've had funeral homes that have started giving out uh my personal cell phone, which it's okay, uh to family members finding out where their death certificate is. So, and and it's I would I would love to clear it up. Normally, I like to have 8 to 10 and I think I have 44 in my queue right now. So, it's it's a huge huge problem um with all hospitals that have been kicking over and then also just turning around and and having injuries that you get notified after the fact that you can't just say, "Oh, it's because of a broken hip." Then you have to really look at that medical history and say, "Oh, well, they had COPD, they had cancer, they had all this stuff." And yeah,

well, since you brought it up, Brian had I'm going to, you know, 126 126 calls, 95 calls over three-month periods. So, she is high. But the rest of your phones don't get used at all. No, they don't. No, they don't. Well, and as soon as uh they were talking about that, I would love to go to a a phoneless system and and have our phones Yeah. incorporated well and have our phones incorporated into teams and have the telephone number through Teams and I mean have the headsets because it's if I'm not at my desk um either out in the field or or somewhere else to to actually pick up a phone and talk like I I need to see somebody or I

we're always working on our computers so to just be on our telephone it's I I would state that if you know there's any I don't know I mean what do other counties have to deal with and how do They I mean do they get reimbursed for anything? Do they like I mean what do we just here take it you know like it it's almost the I don't want to say it's the cost of business but it's just that's how everybody's getting I inundated with these I can tell you that the company that IU Health is contracted with to sign all these death certificates there's three doctors that are spread over the United States. Yeah. And and that's the burden because they could give two

well whatever about that and so that's why they're just burdening us with well but I can tell you they they do care because every time it comes to them they are still charging IU Health for that and then they are still turning around and sent to us. So they say hey look but it's no skin off their back to send it to us because they're just reducing their own liability. So that's what they're trying to do right. Well, but then we can turn around and kind of say this is on the on the hospital and then it's more we should have a discussion with them about this company and if if you see a trend that's raised and it's getting significantly higher over time then there should be a discussion.

Oh we yeah that that company Death Certificates Inc. surprisingly enough. Um that shock yeah [laughter] there was a big there was a committee on naming that um and so well I mean we're not going to solve that today. I just it is so it's unfortunate. Yeah. Thank you Gavin for the update. No problem. And no one signed up for public comment just let appreciate that. Any other elected officials and department heads?

Seeing none there's nobody that signed up for public comment. Is there anybody here that wants to speak from the public? No. All right. Comments from council. Mr. Hughes. About a week ago, uh, David Pentuff wrote an article in the Star Press uh, regarding the impact of the property tax relief bill, Senate Bill One. uh I'm very appreciative that they would uh take the time to publish that and and uh encourage public discussion. But one thing that struck me toward the end of the article, the legislative services agency, it says show Delaware County will receive increases in actual property tax revenue each year. Then it says LSA projects a 5.1% increase in property tax revenue in 2026 compared to 2025. And if anybody followed our budget discussions, that probably came as quite a shock. Where's our 5.1%. I had last month brought up this little chart. I used a 4% increase because that's what DLGF said we would get from 2026 over 2025. how they got to 5.1% I think I'm guessing because legislative services agency doesn't talk to citizens that they used our advertised amount for 2026 which the LGF tells us always to make higher than what we anticipate and we use 29750,000 so that's the max levy amount that LSA

is passing on to the public as being what we're going to get. But they don't talk about the tax cap loss again, which increased by 17% this year. So I had said that we would actually receive a little bit less than the year before in 2026. If you use the advertised amount, it would be a little bit more, but it's not 5.1%. It's less than 1%. So, I'm I'm I'm disturbed because this is a state agency that's responsible for providing information to the public and they're providing bad information. They're misleading the public. I think they're misleading the legislature. And I think that's part of the problem uh that we're having to deal with is try to educate our legislators that the problems created by Senate Bill One are real and they're drastic and we're having to deal with them.

That also doesn't take into account any taxes we don't collect because we don't know that number till later. [clears throat] Absolutely. Right. Bill, do you think the extra 1% is related to funding going into countywide tiff districts? I that certainly has an impact. There's no question about it. Yeah. Greatly in those. Other comments from council. Well, the one thing we talked about in finance pertaining to that too, it's like some people are talking gross and other people are talking net. And when you're have when you're not talking the same language, that can make things really confusing, too.

The tiff districts, I don't believe they're not they're not capped by the 4% tax levy increase, so it's a 100% capture. So, other comments from council? All right. I have comment. Um, our next meeting we're going to have a public hearing and it'll start at 9:00 a.m.

Okay. It be November 18th, 9:00 a.m. And the subject is the approval of building lease for the addiction recovery and rehabilitation center. And then following that public hearing, we'll have a regularly scheduled council meeting. The public hearing starts at 9:00, is it?

Starts at 9:00, Tuesday, November 18th. Beyond that, I know harvest is winding down for a lot of people, but uh our farm is still very busy at it and daylight savings change comes up here shortly. I do appreciate those people who are kind and courteous and patient, but there are those that are not. Please do your best to be safe. We want you to be safe. We want to be safe. We all want to go home and see our families at night. Beyond that, I'd entertain a motion to adjurnn. So moved. Second. Motion by Jessica, second by Dan. Roll call, please. Miss Langan, yes. Mughes, yes.

Smoke, yes. Yes. Spiper. Yes. Can Yes. M. Yes.