City Council - Regular Meeting

the cake. Eight minute, you know. Wow. How

reminds me of high school days. Like we're in the military or something. Got five minutes to eat. Hurry up. My military buddy the entire breakfast. All right, we're going to call this meeting in order at 64. of the United States of America and to the republic which stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice world. Oh, very cold. Excellent.

Get in on a lot. That's good. Why don't you hear? Well, I did it better in person. Good to see you.

All right. So, um we're just going to we have this meeting. So, we can discuss a few things with the county regarding the U boat landing. So, if you would like to start with Ash the discussion. Sure, absolutely. Um, good evening. Uh, so, uh, originally a few months ago, uh, the county wanted to have this joint session mainly because of, uh, just change in leadership, change in council, change in city managers over the years. And we've been trying to discuss this for probably going on at least prior to that I've been a commissioner. So at least four or five years that I know about for Dayton to take ownership of Dayton Landing. So I wanted to have at least a joint session to where we can all come on to the same page to know uh whether Dayton in fact does want to take on date landing and then what that agreement may entail and if we can iron out just rough details on that. I know as far as the county is concerned, we have had multiple meetings and the board agrees and also our parks advisory board agrees that we are we are open to the idea of transferring ownership of Dayton to the city of Dayton. So that is the main reason uh for having the joint session is to have a open and public conversation on whether the date city council agrees uh that they would like uh to take ownership of date money. Beyond that then become the details and we can discuss details. Now I have a few prepared if we want but I guess in general um since there has been council turnover mayors new mayors uh and new city c managers I figured we'd start this conversation again as a refresher.

Um why don't we start with an introduction of who you are and we'll start at Kitty or excuse me councelor Macken. Well, can you imagine this is my 10th year on council and do you have any questions? Well, not yet. Okay. Uh Chris Kyro, uh I've been on the city council now two years, I believe. Um lots of questions. Um it's very exciting to me. Uh and so I'll wait till we get started. Sure. I'm Colt Wilkins. And uh I might have a couple questions.

Mary is Sarah Yan County Commissioner and we have been talking about this for at least as long as I've been there and that's uh 12 years in June. Kit Johnston County Commission for over three years now. And if there is questions uh one of us three commissioners can uh answer. If not uh we do have our head administrator who originally actually was from parks. So, he's going to know a lot of back history. And then Travis Piece is our current parks manager. Excellent. Uh, an effort. I am mayor. I've been the mayor almost two years. Prior to that, I've was on city council for 12 years. I was on planning commission. I did everything. So, and that's been the last 20 years.

Bubba King ML County Commissioner and been on for about a year and a half. Drew Hildbrand. uh see uh past president for about four years I've been on council. I'm Robin Peterson. I've been on council for a year and a few months. Um and I'm very excited about the landing and having this discussion. Scott Hover. Um I too am excited about the idea of this but and have lots of questions and you know kind of by ear I've been on a council on two different occasions as a designate not never elected. No that's the best way to go. Never likely.

Um I'll go ahead and have staff introduce themselves too. Thank you mayor. Good evening everybody. Jeremy Cole, city manager. Hi Rosio Vargas, city reporter. Bob Cer, public works supervisor. Rob Walker, finance director. Thank you. Okay. Um, so how would you want to begin the discussion? What is what should be?

Let me throw out uh let me just throw out kind of rough conversations that at least I've had and these will go back at least three years. Um, I think the most important thing is what uh Dave Rock brought before um us a while back back when Michelle was city manager and that was the appraisals for both Dayton paid for appraisals for Dayton Landing and for uh the Fisher Farms that you guys own down at the corner. Um the intent back then was to uh if there was any interest in a land swap with Dayton Landing uh and that 50 acres. Um so those convers went on about three years ago. I think they fell off just because of change in in leadership. Uh, so I guess that's a good spot for us is that to know the city council to know that there is appraisals out there for both of these properties. And so from there, I guess is it is there interest number one in the council to uh receive ownership of Dayton Landing from the county? I guess that would be question.

I I can probably speak for the council and most everybody. We would love to have ownership, but what that means and the details behind that are the big questions for us. H is most of the city council aware of the prior discussions over the last few years and are they aware of like the appraisals that have been done? A recap would be good for

Okay. Um so I guess I'll I'll give the recap unless somebody Travis if you want to chime in. I think you might know a little bit more than me. I know you were part of some of those meetings, but my original meeting was with Dave Brocklo, Relle, uh Joya Goodrum, and there mayor uh Annette Frank was there and they basically delivered the appraisals to us. One was for two around 250 grand for bait landing and the other one was for over a million dollars for the 50 acre Fisher farms which you guys um are using for uh basically the water rights on that. And the original offer was for from at least from me was to we were just interested in the land. We were not interested in the water for Fisher Farms. And this would be part of a conversation of a land swap. So if and I'm just going to use the numbers of the appraisals so that nobody assumes that somebody's making numbers up the appraisals. What one was dating land for 250 and Fischer's farm was for over a million. The over a million was because they appraised with the water rights. The original offer that I had I don't need the water if the intention was to move the fairgrounds to that property. We didn't need the water on a on a on a farming basis for that. We just need a hookup for restrooms and then we would figure out the rest of the commercial use water on our own. The problem with that 1 some odd million dollar appraisal is we weren't getting the water as a county which means the farm ground was overappraised. it from what I've done with homework and as this conversation proceeds, you guys can verify, but you're probably looking around 13 grand an acre for dry farm ground uh in our area. So, to me, the balance of that would be about another

uh it'd be about another $400,000 that the county would uh and this obviously would go to uh it'd have to get approval because this is still just one commissioner having this conversation, but it would be about another $400,000 on top of the $250,000 appraisal if we were to do a land spawn. I would say that there is options for us that we do a deal just for date land. So don't think that it has to be a landfall deal. Those are just the conversations I initially had with Dave Ruckle uh Joy Good and an So from there I guess if there's any questions I can answer them or Travis can answer them or if you guys need some background history, Ken's here. Um, I know there was some hang-ups in the very early years with uh bathrooms that were flushable versus vault. Um, that kind of derailed some discussions, but that predates me. So, there

I'm going to go ahead and open it up. Go ahead. So, the idea is to put the fairgrounds over there on the property. How many acres is in that property? About 150. That's So, no paving projects, anything like that. Are there going to be structures built on that? Oh yeah. Yeah. The whole fair. So you guys are going to move the whole fairground basically outside.

That that is the idea. I mean there's other properties, but the the biggest thing is we we can't do anything unless we tag a property that we know that there's an owner that's willing to wait for us to do a master plan process. And that's kind of where we're at over the last pretty much three years that I've been scouting is I have four properties and that is one of them. But it's it's hard to find properties because you number one the owner can't be actively selling it and number two they have to be able to sit there and wait for you as a county uh to be able to do a master plan process to decide what the public because that's where's the public engagement starts coming in to whether number one do you even want to move the fairgrounds and then number two if you do what does that look like what's the area what amenities are there do those amenities match with where the property is uh there's a lot that goes What's your timeline on this?

I would say just for property acquisition, we're probably two years. And you're probably two years to get a master plan done. We took about a year and a half, a year and 3/4 to get a parks master plan done. Yeah, correct. So, I'm kind of using that time frame. Thank you. I have a question. How many acres is on the current fairgrounds property? 25. Thank you. That's a big

25 plus. We were out of parking and I was able to secure seasonally about a 9 acre farm on Lafayette Avenue. That's about a half a mile. Was that not half a mile down avenue that has helped us, but we're still we're out growing where we're at. We're landing. That's a prime model that you would have in M. That would be a very desirable development. Yeah, we don't have to get into those conversations that you're you're right that it it would be primal. Yes.

So, bing to date and landing a little bit. One of the things that um I have a question on is the things that need to be repaired at Dayton Landing. So, like the stairwell is one of my big concerns. You know, the the U handrails been in disrepair ever since I've lived here. The the stones are are pretty significant liability and tripping hazard. Um, and so, you know, if we're if we're talking in ASIS, you know, yes, I understand the appraisals are what they are, but, you know, if we were to acquire this, we would need to put in a not insignificant amount of money pretty immediately to get it so that just the liability concerns were addressed. Um, you know, for for us, that's something that I would want to make sure is factored into our conversation. um is just yes, the appraisals are what the appraisals are, but you know, we also have to look at, you know, how much we have to invest in fixing it immediately and understanding as well, you know, if you're getting a blank slate, you know, there's still a lot of money investment that that's going to have to go in on the county side of things. Um, but our our ability to fund RL repairs is is not is is not a lot. Um, so that's just something that if we're taking that on, that long-term financial commitment is still relevant in our conversation.

Not to say impossible though. Not to say impossible, but it is something that we would just want to feedback. You probably have data on maintenance on that property on a yearly basis.

Uh, yeah, we do have a little bit. Um, obviously we don't spend a ton of time there. Uh it's not a very complex site, ground parking lot, bow ramp. We average about 3 hours per week. Uh during peak season specifically, uh that could be, you know, one hour one week where we're just showing up and pulling trash and then, you know, another week we spend a few more hours there doing mowing and things like that. And given our um hourly wage rate, we're spending in my last couple years here, we've spent about $5,500 on the labor side of it. Um materials, we're not really spending a whole lot of materials because you're just talking garbage bags and things like that. So, we do um get some of that cost offset. There's a program through the Oregon State Marine Board for retaining that access. So, you had the maintenance program.

Correct. In the current bianium we're in in that program, we are getting $6,200 over the course of the 2-year gray period. And that would transfer obviously to the city of Dayton. I can't speak to that specifically, but I would assume if the landing transfer, they can apply for the program and they would get that. And do you have to apply yearly for that? Every two years.

Every two years. Yep. And then if if I may because the other thing I would also keep in mind for improvements um we have a long history of working with the state marine board and I know like uh uh chair Johnston mentioned about uh previously there was a lot of discussions around restrooms and some of the grant funding. I know we've also looked at boat ramp replacement and a lot of discussions. there's a whole history. And so I know that uh the other thing to keep in mind if you're taking that on is the Oregon State Marine Board is they have funds available for making improvements and they've actually been a very good uh partner over the years and pretty easy to work with. It's a little bit different than what you find in other granting agencies because they actually have a a portion of their organization that actually comes in and helps with the engineering design and basically puts your drawings together that then you take to apply for fun form. So just another consideration to bring in especially with the questions about funding available for improvement. Um, believe me, I would have loved 20 years ago to be able to replace that boat ramp, but you know, that site, you know, just to share a little bit of history with it, it's just it's presented challenges over the years. Um, at at the time when I was the parks manager, which seems like a century ago, but uh, yeah, almost um, you know, we had challenges at that time working with the state marine board because the location of the boat ramp and where Palmer Creek comes into the river. But I also know during later discussions that you know because you'd end up doing more disturbance and having more of a potential uh habitat impact if you were to move the boat ramp you know 50 yards upstream or did something like that. So I know the state marine board there was just going to have to be some environmental permitting to kind of jump through to be able to restore that ramp.

And then before we also had drawings for redoing the parking lot and the restroom and I know there was conversations around the the flush restroom versus non flush and and that's where that kind of hit a pause as well. So um I'll just say that you know state marine board is another they we have a long history of working with them and they're actually one of my favorite uh agencies to actually work at the state level. Um, so it's just something else to consider.

Um, I want to caution everybody, I'm not saying I dislike the idea, but I do want to caution everybody that if the Fairgrounds did move to that specific area, that would change Dayton inside and out completely. Um, so if that were ever on the table, I would like to put it out to the community because I'm not half and half the community coming and looking for me. I'm just not.

Um, but that's not to say it's not a good idea, a bad idea. I mean, there's a lot to be discussed if that were to happen. But having the landing is such an attraction and having that we have more time to find grants that would help us fund these things than I think the county does. But again, there's so many things to go over that um you know, I would repress them. We would have an executive session and come up with some very specific questions, thoughts, ideas, and scenarios with which we would see this happening. if if we're just talking about a land swap with the 50 acres because I'm more than happy to have the conversation right now because this is drug on for so long that if you guys are concerned and need to have a second set of meetings or fairgrounds totally understand that but can we at least get 85% of the way there with just a date and landing conversation

it's not I don't think anybody's not wanting the date and landing but that property is worth a lot. We can drill more wells if we ever have water issues. That keeps our autonomy as a city. Sure. And I understand that. I'm asking, can we remove that from the conversation since it sounds like it's a a huger a bigger hurdle for dating to have a basically a dirty conversation about that? Can we just hone back in then and just have the conversation about dating landing? We absolutely want it. I mean, there's no doubt about that. Okay. Absolutely. Just there's lots of things to consider. The maintenance, the costs, the liabilities, all those things.

Mayor, would it be instructive to have our county administrator who was in charge of parks and our current uh parks manager meet with you uh or meet with staff, even the council to basically answer some of the really in-depth questions because this goes back a really long time. Yeah. And we've had so many conversations with um you know uh past leadership in Dayton and it's it's been an issue but the historical part of it and the pieces about the the Oregon State Marine Board some of those pieces are really vital to whether or not you feel comfortable going forward and I think with those questions answered you might be able to look at this in an entirely different light to say yeah it might seem a little daunting to take this on but once you know that it really does come with significant supports, it might make a difference in what your decision is. So, while you might not be able to to give us a yes tonight on that piece, you would be able to maybe have a conversation with staff and then come to a conclusion as to whether or not that piece we can get that finished.

Senator, yes. So I think I think the rub is that for me at least is that I think these are somewhat intertwined because I don't think our ability to purchase this property is is easy for us with our pocketbooks the way that they are. So, you know, we're we're trying to balance, you know, certain budgets. You know, we've got a multi-yearl long process in place and, you know, even you know, 200k is 200k, right? And so, you know, that's just that's just at the appraisal that that we're talking about verbally. So, you know, the the purchasability, I think, is one of the concerns if we're just talking about data landing versus, you know, the the larger conversation. Um, is that fair to say? Well, there's no funding for us to purchase. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah,

but if there's some sort of agreement that could be made that retains our autonomy and all the different ins and outs, then it might be worth it. I mean, I envision that being a very um there's lots of history associated with that that particular spot. There's also a lot of recreation. People love to go fishing. They love to take their boats down there. Kids love to go exploring. It's a beautiful place that we could build on. Um, is that in their urban renewals boundary? Yeah. Urban renewal of all times. Urban Z landing is within the urban rural. So that's a big too. Yeah. Real big.

And TLT dollars could be used to help. Right. Exactly. It opens up a whole area.

Um, yeah. I think from my point of view, I'm very supportive of big landing being transferred over to you guys and I don't we haven't had that discussion of what we would want for it. If that's a 99 release, if that's a you know, whatever that looks like, I'm supported any ideas of that part. And as far as fairgrounds go, we've had a metal discussion, a work session or anything to that process or any of the old. I have lots of questions about zoning or ordinances on whether we can have wells be um in the middle of this, you know, and does that work with our own ordinances? Do we have to go change those in order for that to happen? uh the nature of the papers what happened just one giant issue with trails you lots of issues that I see wrapping around that part but

for me and the I'm open to being creative on David Landing and you guys can be

um taking that part and and have a vision for that long term it's something different than what we have so I I would be supportive with the chair's idea of getting 85% there and then talking about the logistics of you know what what would we want I think we have to talk about that what we want what would be fair um obviously like councelor said here that there's just a lot of unknowns and potential liabilities and a lot of money even if you got it for a dollar you know there's still a lot of investment that would have you guys keep what you have for for trial any

um madam I'm wondering if it would be helpful for us to um get a proposal on the table to um charge us with moving forward in terms of discussing the details of the of the landing um um I'm noting it right now in my mouth but uh if so if we get something on the table saying Yes, let's look at this. Let's, you know, we want the landing if we can work out the details and write some kind of proposal. Well, I think the properties would need to be reassessed. It's been three years or something like that. So, that would be a must.

So, charge the city with getting our our team here with getting appraisals. I wouldn't know that we would need to go that route. I don't know because how do you really separate the water from the land with the particular um but how they're one of them's agricultural one's farm or something like that I don't know how you separate that

um the only aspect of that I know the the egg portion of it I don't know what the value would be to a city for the water rights that are there and I know you guys have gotten them converted to use them for the city um but I I can tell you just roughly in the valley what properties go for for dry ground with irrigation and with irrigation. They sell quite often and it's very fairly well known what they go for. Uh but again that is one commissioner's opinion on what that is. You definitely would want to confirm that. I would just want to uh make sure that you guys are aware that I think you spent around $9,000 on both of those appraisals. So if you were to go for another appraisal

real estate math there Um it would probably cost to re-evaluate which is fine. Um that's now we want to go down. Um I would like to at least before we leave so it's not all we're not. Yeah. Uh that I I'm I would just want to as one commissioner throw out a number to see if I can at least get approval from other two commissioners so you guys know where to start from and then we can go from there after that. I that's my plan. Go for it. Are you guys okay with all that? Yeah. Excuse me. Process-wise, I'm going to look to our administrator for anything that we come to a consensus on here.

I think smirk is okay, but that you know where Ken Ken is at. You never have to guess the look like. So don't go there to publicly go to the meeting. I think you're fine with consensus but not necessarily taking decision. Yeah. No formal action victim. Before you throw out that number, do you know the the history of how the county came to get it? Did we pay for it? Did we how long have we had it? Does anybody know anything of that nature? It's you got me on.

So, a lot of the lots because there's there's I think there's five lots that make up the landing and some of those lots were um tax foreclosures and that's how the county came into that area. Yeah. I know when we did the bridge and the utility stuff all across the bridge, we had to have somebody come in and look even for artifacts before we could do anything. So, it's, you know, it's serious thing. Is there deed restrictions on that?

There is no specific deed restriction. We actually had council look at this um prior to even tonight, actually a few years ago and assess that there was no issues with the deed if there were some sort of transfer. So I guess I'm going to throw a number out and and it's not my number. This is a number brought to us from Dave Brooklo from an appraiser for the 250 grand. So that's all I have to go by. So that's the starting number that I'm just going to throw out if there's consensus that the the board is okay with 250 grand because that's the number that we have from a third party saying that that's what they and then we can go from there. Um and the council can get together and have an executive session hopefully sometime in the near future so this doesn't drag out very much quicker and come up with just a a counter proposal few elections. No, I mean if we have to do it for elections yet to do it for elections.

I will say we'll we will not have a conversation about the 50 acres, we can do that at a later time, but it sounds like there's some very high hurdles that uh will have to be discussed even though I believe a lot of that will be answered during our master planning process because there'll be a lot of community outreach for that including the town. Yeah. uh and depending on what other towns have properties. So

I would just add chair that uh the cost of an appraisal is not insignificant and we've gone through that process. It's been paid for. I think right now the only thing we're looking at is we have a number. We have a number to play with. It wasn't our number where we said hey this is what we're looking for. this is uh is basically uh it's not objective uh it it is objective so I think we have that number and we can look at that number if there's any concern about you know force training back and forth I think that's where we can start since it was something that was sort of like if we had buyin from both jurisdions right

or if we're talking about just the one property we could also do just an access agreement so that you guys can start because it's part of your if I remember right it's part of your master parks far right

that is perfect for going after grant funding. So if we give an access agreement that's written correctly and we give you five or six years. So here's Dayton landing, here's the price that we have agreed upon and you guys have instant access to being able to go start number one taking care of it in a way that Dayton wants to see it taken care of and you can start uh going after uh grant money. I will say during uh me and Travis are involved in the Yanhill waters access project and that is a very important site for the National Park Service also for part of the Yanth water access and there's grant funding out there for some of that stuff too. So there is different avenues. It's in your master parks plan. It's fresh cuz if I remember right that was only what 3 months ago you guys like that.

Very very So I think everything could come together. We give you an access agreement at $0 with a purchase price of 250 and then you start or well whatever we end up coming to an agreement on and then uh it's x number of years to finalize that.

Yes. So, I I do want to pivot over to the other property for another quick question. This is one of my only outstanding ones. So, if we're talking about, you know, in in this whole overarching thing, so we've got a lot of different ways that we can kind of cut this cookie um in the 50 acres property, if we're talking about, you know, retaining water rights on that. Um and they talk about this like a dry farm site, how do you balance water rights versus water security? So, you know, the the water just because we Exactly. the water quality. So you know that would be a difficult

and this is not I I know nothing about this topic. So this is posing an honest to god question is you know what how how do you in in relationships like this how are those typically managed because if there's say the fairgrounds goes in and then you know that does affect the water quality from those wells then is there historic precedent for how something like that goes down and and that's something that I'd be curious I don't know if we have the answer to that tonight but that is something that long term I would I would be interested in having that conversation. is just, you know, yeah, we get to keep the water rates, but what does that actually mean in practice? Great question.

I believe I can answer that question. So, we're working through the plan review process right now with the Oregon Health. We have one well on that bid auction and if we do activate that well for municipal um municipal uses, OA would like to see a restricted easement within a 50 mile radius within a 100 foot radius. So you can't that that just means that within the radius of that well you can't you can't have the livestock running you can't have yeah livestock pen you can't you can't

septic yeah septic you can't vehicle there's a whole turned into a nice little park in the middle of sorry just so briefly sometimes being pine was yes so we promptly ctor to engage council on this too to talk about how that affects what we're doing down there as well. I mean it's in part of our parks plan but the understanding is we don't own the property it's part of our urban growth or not urban growth plan but yeah and so all that is to be discussed as well going to have to be run through I'm sure there's a legal modification there in the interest of saving time right yeah

let's go through the council say you're 85% there or not and when we can you know take that number and get with Jeremy and do what we need to do as council right yeah well Councelor Mack, I'm not sure. I would be more comfortable if we do as well. We don't have any money to spend. So, okay. But still on the fence. You're not considering those details. Are you 85% there? Yes. We would like to have the landing. I can't tell you. I am. No. Okay. Council, I am. Yes,

I am. I am. I am. Yes, I should. Yeah, for sure. All right. And we appreciate the fact that you're here. Absolutely. The reason we're doing this is to show the importance that we want this to move along, right? It's been lingering and one of my main goals and hopefully of the rest of the board too is to keep this moving because we've been talking about it for a long time and I'm not even talking about just a minute. It predates me and Mrs. Badman back. He was our parks manager and Travis and we really want to see this come to fruition and I know that this board wants you guys owners.

Yes. Out of curiosity, what would be the turnaround time on access that we would talk about? Uh, I'd say probably two and a half to three months. Okay. Unless Travis has something written up already. It depends on I Well, I was just going to say it depends on the type of access that you're talking, you know, if we're talking an acquisition or if we're talking a lease agreement or I mean or if you're just talking about just getting access to do things. I mean, that could be something pretty quickly.

Well, whatever it would be, I want it. Number one, it's going to be a liability transfer is what I would want to see. So, they're they're managing the the park. it is their liability that they now have enough access to where they can go after grant fund. Okay. That's where kind of clarifying what access I guess kind of means. Is that similar to what we gave Carlton Grant said maybe a little bit more? Yeah.

How long was Carlton? This actually sounds like is if you're wanting to actually start pursuing, you know, funding and actually making improvements at the site or starting to use it, then probably point to some type of a lease agreement or doing something along those lines. That might be the the cleaner way to do it. So, but I think it it could be a pretty quick turnaround. Yeah. Would you give it to him? Nice negotiation.

I think it's a good opportunity for you. Why not throw it out there? All the good news say now, right? All right. Well, it sounds like we're about 85% of the way there, but we have a lot of details to um work out. So, I think I will get with Jeremy and we'll make some plans ASAP. Sabbath. Yeah. What would be your what would be the next expected communication from him? And to whom would he go to?

Um I'm going to have Jeremy be the point person only because with that. So um but I'll have Jeremy be the point person and of course we'll discuss when to get together and all stuff. So yeah, I'll be in touch with your county administrator ASAP. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you. If anybody's got any more questions, now's the time. Answered a lot of them for me. But I've got more in depth questions that that require Yeah. Okay. Right on. Thank you very much. Thank you guys.

Great time. Happy birthday. We had a group. Make sure everybody half chair.

Everybody say date landing. Thank you guys. I appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, that's fine. Thank you guys. Appreciate it.

Happy birthday. Thank you, gentlemen. And I'd get a street