Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening, everybody. It is about 7 o'clock. We're going to get started. Thank you. Tonight's Tuesday, December 8th. We have a playing, zoning, public hearing, and general meeting. We're here in room 206, and it is Purdue night because I have a Purdue shirt on, and they won the football game, and I'm going out there next weekend to watch another football game. Unlike Michigan? No, against. They're playing Big Forest.

No, I said unlike Michigan.

Exactly. So right to the public hearing. I'm going to read the first one in the first heading into the file, but it's going to be continued. So the first item on the agenda for public hearing is continuation of public hearing regarding special permit application number 39-0 site plan, also known as PL 26-95, St. Luke's Episcopal Church at 1864 Boston Post Road. We opened the hearing on July 28th. It was continued to September 8th, which is today, but it's going to be immediately continued to October 13, 2026. If anybody's here for St. Luke's, which is really they're moving their school and parking lot around. We're going to continue that one until next time. Okay, anything else you need to say on that one, Coach?

No, you're all set.

Fantastic. The next item on the agenda is continuation of public hearing regarding landfilling and regrading application number 603, also known as PL 26-131, Thomas O. and Sandra Holm at 64 Gardner Street. Proposed to regrade the property in association with the construction of a replacement single-family residence with stormwater management and perform related site development activities. The 0.51 plus or minus acre subject property is located on the southeast corner formed by the intersection of Gardner Street and Pleasant Street and shown on the system number 45 as lot 121 in the R1 third zone. The public hearing was open last week on September 1st and continued today, September 28th, 2026. Fred, what do we got?

There's been a good deal of back and forth since the last hearing on this matter last week, last Tuesday. Joe Canis, our peer review engineer, reviewed the applicant's revised materials that were uploaded the evening of that hearing, September 1st, and issued his sixth memo dated September 2nd with several remaining clarifying questions and concerns relative to stormwater. Rob Sandello of Mueller Engineering then issued a September 4th response with revised plans that introduced a new boulder wall and revised grading south of the proposed parking court along the southerly property line that allows for a more substantial swale in that area. A revised landscape was also issued and submitted for the record by Environmental Land Solutions that removed the arborvitae plantings along the southerly property line that were proposed to be planted within the swale. So those were removed to remove that concern. Brian McMahon of Redness and Mead, the applicant's neighbor's engineer, reacted to the revised plans on September 4th, noting a slight driveway encroachment from the Glick property to the south into 64 Gardner and recommended that the boulder wall be modified slightly to avoid the driveway. Wilder Gleason sent an email for the record dated September 4th, noting that the revised plans for the above property are acceptable to my clients, provided no portion of the boulder wall is located on the Glick driveway. And with that stipulation and understanding, my clients, the Glicks and the Gleasons, accept the plans. And then on September 8th, today, Joe Canis submitted his seventh memo on this application. He notes that, The grading has been revised and a boulder wall is proposed near the southerly property line to provide a wider swale. We understand that the driveway of the property line to the south may encroach into the subject property. As a potential condition of approval, a field adjustment to the proposed wall is necessary. The swale width shall remain as proposed and the grading to the north be revised to accommodate the swale. Tonight, Bob Maslin is here with his team to provide some added context.

Welcome, Bob. Good evening. Robert Maslin representing the applicants. With me, Rob Sandilow, the engineer. Victor Mayo, the architect. The owners are out of state on a pre-scheduled venture. Joe Canis is here. Fred did a pretty good job, so if anybody has any questions. No, I'll run through these quick, but we have everything worked out. These are, oops.

I've got a couple questions that someone might want to answer.

Go ahead. You want just to zip through these? Remaining issues, capacity of the swale. between the, we're talking about, I'll show you on the plan in a minute, between the parking area and the southerly boundary. Somebody raised a question about the Arborvitae being planted in the swale. That was, I think Matt Pop put the Arborvitae there, not realizing he was planting them in the middle of a swale. So those are gone. Erosion control blanket, yes, that's Joe Canis and we've added that. And the plans have been revised accordingly. And so, as Fred mentioned, the grate adjacent to the parking court is raised and there's a little boulder wall there. Reduces the slope. It slows down the velocity of surface runoff. And we now have a profile view in the plan. And as I mentioned, the arborvitae are gone. Sign-offs. The applicant's engineer made a final response memo, which dealt with, addressed the last memo from Joe Canis, groundwater elevations, boulder wall added to the plans, calculation for the swale, erosion control blanket, and then from the 60 Gardner Street owner, which is Wilder's, Client of Boulder Wall is acceptable and we will talk about that. I'll show you what that encroachment is. It's really minimal. And then Joe sent an email, no objections here, and that's the rest of his email, but he now has a memo that Fred read from. signing off on everything.

File? I didn't see it. Yes, it was uploaded to the file.

Was it uploaded about 5 o'clock today or so? He just issued it.

I don't see anything after 2.30 in the file. It should be there. We can take it. If it's in there, it's in there. You're still not connected.

So I'll zip through this in the interest of time, but Rob is here if you want to. I'd rather have him do it, no offense.

I like engineers, not lawyers. But I do have one question to start with. I mean, I go by the property again. It's still filled with water. You guys are teaching me the difference between groundwater and rainwater. That's a new one on me. So my question is, is the trap rock gonna be filled to the height of the water where it is today are we gonna have a basement that floods and if the basement that floods like we did once before on either man's field or brookside i forget they flooded it flooded on purpose we knew about it but where you come in is that house had to have a generator and the generator needs a pad so if you have to have a generator you need to have a pad for the generator, which affects your lock coverage. And then with that said, if you're raising the height of the basement to get it to have the water in the ground and not in the basement, does that affect the ceiling height of the basement and affect the overall height of the house? Because that's going to bring in the mayo because he designed the house.

So for the record, Robert Sandola, licensed professional engineer in the state of Connecticut. So first question was, if we're bringing gravel, trap rock to the basement elevation, where's water relative to that? There's water there today.

I'm assuming that's groundwater.

It's a mix of groundwater and rainwater.

But it didn't rain yesterday here. Did it rain yesterday here?

And the issue with the water in the hole is that that hole is probably not infiltrating much at all because it's collected silt at the bottom of it at this point. So that hole will be backfilled with gravel or trap rock. and the finished basement slab elevation is 54, so that will bring us up to, you know, gravel's gonna get filled to elevation 53 plus minus, and that puts the entire finished basement above groundwater so once we fill that hole with gravel you're not you'll see gravel you won't see groundwater anymore and the finished basement will be out of groundwater and the whole reason for that is so we're not pumping constantly that's the whole reason we brought it up right yeah that's i mean that's just to reflect that's what they did on man feeling purpose they did it below the

Yeah, we don't want that here.

So we've, over the course of this whole project, we've raised it a couple of times to finally arrive at 54 where we're comfortable that we're not going to have a groundwater issue in the basement.

Okay, so the architect's plans have been updated to reflect the proper basement ceiling height and the basement height, height, height of the house. Yes. So it matches the midpoint of the eave matches it, right?

Correct. So what we did when we, the last iteration of raising the basement slab, we held the first floor elevation. So we originally had nine foot clear in the basement.

We talked about this lesson. Now the basement clear is something different.

Now the basement clear is eight feet. So we went from an elevation of 53 in the basement to 54, but we held the first floor elevation, so we shrank our clear height in the basement. And then the last time we updated our average grade calculation, we landed at a building height of 29-1, I want to say. 29-1. 29-foot-1-inch. So we've actually.

Last week it was 29-10, I think. We can double-check.

I'm pretty sure it's at 29-1. It is. It is, 29-1. So we may have misspoke last week, but it's 29-1.

I sold off the plans. This plan doesn't say what it is. But did we change the average grade of the site?

In the proposed condition? Yes, so the proposed grading does change the average grade. The existing average grade controls when measuring the building height, because we can only go from existing average grade plus one. So that's the number that's controlling the height. If we were able to use the proposed average grade, we could probably go higher, but we're limited to the existing average plus one.

Okay, so according to all you guys, it all checks out.

I made sure.

I'm just making sure, because I know something's got to shrink. I mean, we've been doing this with Baywater for years, and those guys used to shrink in the building.

Because I don't exceed the height. So Nick DeMeo, the architect.

Nick DeMeo, the architect on the project. So yeah, so Rob's correct. We took a foot out of the basement height. And then I also went through the exercise of changing all the roof pitches. We had to bring everything down about a foot. We revised the dormer on the front of the house. So it's now kind of pushed in as opposed to before. It was more of like a shed. So we had to go through all that as well.

But are we raising the grade of the property in the last two weeks? No. Because of the land filling and regaining application? No.

Oh, no. Not from what you've said? Not from anything you've already seen.

Okay. Just where the parking is, it's up a little bit.

Yeah, where the swale in question, that grading got revised a bit, but that area didn't affect the average grade at all.

Okay. Okay, keep going. Those are my major questions. Just keep going with your presentation. I'm sorry.

What was the next part of that question? The generator. The generator. So speaking with the clients, their approach to this is going to be like a portable generator, nothing permanent. So no pad. That was the last conversation I had with them.

That's fine. That's what I got.

I think that was all you had.

Can you talk a little bit more about the exterior pump that you have planned?

Sure. So The exterior pump pit is located right there, the northeast corner of the footprint. The house will have footing drains just like any other and very likely under slab drainage too. All of those footing drains will be connected to this manhole. So all the groundwater that those footing drains collect up will be routed to that manhole where the pump is located. It'll pump groundwater into this Coltec system. where it will then infiltrate back into the ground and flow through the side yard area. And it's, you know, that's the natural flow path of this site. So we'll re-infiltrate groundwater there where it can continue to flow. And then in case where this system couldn't keep up or, failed for whatever reason or got backed up or something got clogged the overflow of that system which we don't anticipate ever overflowing is connected to our level spreader outlet in the southeast corner here okay is that a commercial grade pump So we've got a duplex, I think, half horsepower pump proposed, like typical submersible.

A typical one that you buy on the basement as opposed to a heavy duty?

Well, it's a heavy duty. It's a half horsepower submersible. And we're speccing a duplex. So in case one fails, it alternates between two separate pumps.

And you don't think that you need an automatic generator in this scenario with this water cable?

Also, our basement and the pumps are going to be above the water table. They're really there as belt and suspenders, a fail-safe.

Everybody's basement floods in town.

So we're two feet plus or minus above groundwater with our basement here. So that pump will be set to only turn on if groundwater surges to just below the basement slab, which shouldn't occur very rarely, I'll say. A large storm might get a temporary surge or something like that. But the groundwater table is below our slab elevation. So theoretically, it shouldn't turn on much.

and you have in your maintenance plan a plan to make sure you're cleaning that particularly post construction i just have i know personal experience of these exterior pumps and they they need servicing in a regular basis sure absolutely um right so we have a maintenance plan um that prescribes maintenance for all these components that are proposed um

And then the other thing is, oftentimes with a pump, it can be fitted with a battery backup. That's something that can be fitted with as well.

What's the date of the most current survey with the zoning text box? Mine's August 6th. There's been a million changes since then. That sounds right. Just so you know, I never heard it before, but it's an exterior sump pump.

Yeah, I had one personally at a new construction house. Yeah, and you need to service those. Yeah, just like people, it's got to be serviced.

That's the first one we've heard. I would... I'd say exterior is better than interior because the idea is you're not putting a hole in your slat for water to come up through.

Okay, so what's the date of most current survey? I'm looking at this one, which is all season survey.

That's all right. August 6th sounded right. I wonder if I can go back here.

When did the height of the house and all that stuff change? It sounds like Nick did it like two weeks ago.

Yeah, the height in the house. Yeah, because this is 29.8 feet. You're talking 29.1 this morning, or five minutes ago. Yeah, so the height on this survey

hasn't been updated so our height was updated as recently as right before the september 1st hearing we worked out our height and this is from august 6th so right we need a new service we can get you a new survey i'm sure but we can sell closely hearing right yeah it would be a correction yeah yeah

Bob, didn't that have to do with the location at which the ground elevations were taken relative to the foundation, and then they were redone closer to the foundation?

There were two points. The earliest of the two was calculating building height with more of a shed-style dormer in the attic level. The second issue was where you measure average grade. It went from six feet around the foundation to right up against the foundation. So we revised the average grade calculation here.

Which is all fine and good. I just want to make sure when you guys go for your billing permit that everybody signs off it. If the average grade is wrong and the height of the house is wrong, then you're SLO.

The only change was taking off the dormer by pushing it in so there's no eve.

I get that, but that's after this, right? This is the sixth.

Right, but that's a different... Bottom line is, for IRVE to sign off on a zoning permit, they're going to have to have an accurate zoning location survey. But substantively, what's been done with the average grade calculations doesn't really require a change in anything but the table on the survey. Agreed. That's really it. Agreed. And the elevations that are on the current plan do show the the elevation, which is, I believe, in here. Yeah, it's in here. They're along the left side of these elevations. And that's Copasatic, guys? Yeah, that's right. All set. Okay, answer that. Yeah, I just want to make sure you got it right. No, I got it. I knew you were going to ask. We're not looking at it.

You're just telling us. Yeah, exactly.

No, you're missing a different thing. You got a wrong survey. You got wrong maps. You know, there's missing Candace's memos. We're on memo seven. The file only has up to memo four. Like, you know, generally it's a little more buttoned up.

Especially for you, Bob. Go ahead, sir. I'm sorry. Well, we don't usually get seven memos from Joe Canis either, so.

Joe's pretty good. He's on our side, too. Don't throw him under the bus.

I think I answered all the questions you asked.

Do you have anything else to add?

I don't think so.

Do you want to go over the boulder wall?

I can cover, if you'd like, I can talk about the boulder wall a little bit. What's the deal with the boulder wall encroaching on the neighbor's driveway?

But the neighbor's driveway flares past the property line of the house according to the left that's in the front yard. So he's got Belgian blocks in the right-of-way that go on.

All right, let me just explain how. Yep. The encroachment is 4 tenths of a foot, 4.8 inches. Okay. Yep. It diminishes as you head along the southern boundary 24 feet to zero. Yep. So that's a sliver that starts out about like this and then tapers down to zero. That's fine. The edge of it this encroachment is basically the Belgian block edge on the driveway. And that's the extent of the encroachment. And I'm not sure how accurate that is because there are old maps, there's two corner markers here that are a foot and a half apart. There's a drill hole here that's new, but I think there's old markers that somehow got lost. There's an iron pipe somewhere down here that's gotten lost.

But it's the neighbor's driveway.

Minimal, minimal.

Right, but it's the neighbor's Belgian block driveway encroaching on the subject property.

Right.

If you guys are fine with it, we're fine with it.

Oh, Wilder and I are going to work out an easement.

That's fine.

And, of course, we're not going to put the boulders on the Belgian block.

Because there's a tree there today. There's a humongous tree there.

There's a tree in the corner. More like over here.

I would argue with it, but I'm not going to argue with it. Okay, that's fine. All right. You okay?

Is there more public testimony? We're going to go with Joe Canis first. I'd like to hear from Joe.

And then... The tree's right next to the... The tree's right next to the Belgian block.

Are you taking that tree?

Well, the tree's down here, but the Belgian block starts here.

Right, but the Belgian block, you can see it. It's on the survey. It's right there. It flares all the way into the right-of-way.

Right here. Right here's the corner.

Correct.

And then it flares in.

A few feet. But that's town property. Okay, you're good, right? Do you want to hear more about the... No, I want cameras.

Okay.

The Belger block's in the town right away. Who cares?

Well, that too, yeah. It extends. Great.

Joe's on a survey, and Joe's in real life. Joe, you're up, brother. Now, in this scenario, Joe, there's three engineers. There's the Hopkins engineer, there's you, and there's the Butters engineer. You're the most important one.

So as long as you're happy, there's your profile.

As long as you're happy, we're happy because you work for us.

Okay, for the record, Joseph Canis, I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of Connecticut, principal engineer with Ty and Bond, retained by the commission for the review of the application. Since our hearing on September 1st, I had an opportunity to review the August 31st materials that were submitted by the applicant. which caused me to generate memo number six, dated September 1st, which basically said, you're moving in the right direction, but we still need some additional data. And since that time, the applicant revised their plans. I believe plans were updated on September 3rd. I had, in response, I issued memo number seven, which basically says, I'm okay with everything, but I did recommend the condition of approval regarding the width of the swale. And the reason for that is that it's important for the conveyance of runoff, provides protection to the property of the south.

So you issued memo seven today, right?

That's correct.

Okay, that's fine.

Yeah, I spoke to Fred on Friday and sent out an email. And as I was driving around today, I'm like, I probably should issue a memo on that. So I just closed it.

What's the detail on the swale that specifically you are recommending?

Well, it's the same with us on the plans that are shown today. So if that wall has to shift north to avoid the driveway or if there's some difference in the survey and what's out in the field, just maintain that existing width. I don't think the width is defined.

So don't eat into the swale if you've got to move the wall a couple inches, basically. Right. Move the swale as well.

Exactly. They'll move them in parallel.

And are you comfortable with the... the sequencing of pump to front chamber, overflow to back cultics. Are you comfortable with that sequencing?

Yes. And the reason why I'm comfortable with that is, as Mr. Sandel has said, this pump chamber system is more of a built-in suspenders type of arrangement, right? Because the groundwater, you know, high-season groundwater would be a foot below the slab. But if somebody, you know, who's had their basement flood, I would definitely, you know, wants that extra protection just in case.

Any additional restrictions you think on the site based on the size and placement of future purchasers of this property should understand your, should never do X. Fill in, if it's applicable.

Well, it limits what you can place over the system, right? So that any future, the owner or future owners will be cognizant of that location. But it's really no different than knowing where your septic leaching field or something like that is.

It's no different than any other property?

There's nothing more on that property?

I don't think there's anything. There's 33. There's 25.

There's probably more maintenance elements just because of the number of different systems. You have the pump. You have the two call techs. You have the swale. And you also have the parking court as well, that driveway. So it's more maintenance. But it's not something that we haven't seen before the commission in the past.

If they were to future put in a generator and put in a pad, that's not going to put them over the coverage.

No, the coverage is 16.

The biggest thing would be if a future person can't pave the driveway. The driveway has to stay permeable. That's the biggest thing.

Or they would have to install a new system. Yeah, or do something different. But they couldn't just pave it out, right?

Yeah. That's the number one thing is the driveway.

And then, I mean, my thing earlier was the whole area, the whole property for the kids to play baseball in the back yard. Except that you're playing on top of the co-tax, right? Yeah.

Well, this is semi-flat. You know, you could do a little something there.

It'd be a little... Anybody else we want to hear from? Joe Cass was important, right? You good, George? Okay. Anybody in the general public like to speak to this application? Mr. Gleason, welcome, sir.

to work things out. It really made a difference. Brian McMahon is fine? He's fine with it, but there's two concerns. One is, as you indicated, maintenance of that porous asphalt is critical. And the other thing is, there should be no filling or changing of the grades of the swale. Because otherwise it just doesn't function, and I think that should be a condition. And we'd also like, if you could, to stipulate that the boulder wall will not be placed upon my client's driveway.

Okay. We have to just make sure that nobody in the future takes out this way.

And then you guys will have an enforcement.

That's why I asked the question. Is there anything on record that we need to be putting on for future purchase?

We worked long and hard to get this bigger swale, deeper swale moved away from the property line. And we're happy with that now. We don't want to see it change.

Somebody 20, 10 years and I'll put in a vegetable garden.

Yeah. I mean, someone will put a vegetable garden in there and we'll want you guys to. Brad Glick would want you guys to come out and say, that's not possible.

I will not be here.

That's not a job.

Thank you.

Okay. Anybody else want to speak to this application? Okay. You all set, Bob? I guess. We want to close this thing.

Oh, yeah. Yes, please. Thank you. Those conditions are okay. I just know for... to address those concerns about the swale and what happens. A couple of things happened here. Notice of drainage maintenance plan goes on the land records. The special permit itself goes on the land records. So those are two things that... future owners and don't be bound by it.

I would make Mrs. Barsanti happy and make sure that that exterior sump pump gets maintenance twice a year.

At least the first year of the construction.

And maybe it's a question of making clear on the notice of drainage maintenance or maybe both documents reference the maintenance plan and the site plan and a requirement that it be maintained as approved.

Because we can solve on the land of a maintenance plan that's in the P&C's office file. We haven't seen the maintenance plan, but eventually you'll see it.

People come to our office and say, I'd like to see the plan for whatever address, and we're able to pull the file and say, here it is. Here's the opportunity. Is there gas in this house?

Pardon? Is there gas lined to this house? I don't think so. I didn't see any proposed propane tanks on the plans either, right? So you're not putting in propane tanks at this point? And we do have a new regulation or relatively new regulation about screening. Yep.

That's a little bit more arduous on a corner line You have a 30-foot problems a gas tank below grade at my house All right, thank you very much motion because I got a motion on the table again a second on the beer Thank You

But it's a half-an-acre piece of land.

It's required.

It's a 30-acre zone, but the hammock is light. Yeah. Okay, next item on the agenda is continuation of public hearing regarding business life planning application number 186Gs in George, special permit, also known as PL26-82, Image Studios, Darien and 800 Post Road, proposed to establish a new salon suite providing 34 studios to salon professionals in a 6,564 square foot second floor of the building. The 1.175 plus minus acre subject property is located on the southeast corner form by its intersection of Boston Post Road and Cedric Avenue and is shown on assessment number 71 as lots 1, 2, and 17. in the Central District CBD Zone. The public hearing opened on June 9th and continued July 7th, July 14th, and September 1st, and tonight, which is September 8th, 2026. I think we have to close this hearing tonight, or we ran out of time.

That's correct. We're out of extensions on this one, so yes, the Commission will either need to close the hearing tonight or direct the applicant to withdraw the application and resubmit at a later date.

Ms. Zabotakis, welcome.

Good evening. Thank you very much.

Just for the record, I think George Riley is recused on this, correct? Yes. All right, so we have four commissions.

Just before Ms. Zabotakis gets started, I would just like to note for the record that the commission did hold this matter open and continue it to this evening to allow for the applicant to complete a parking study which has been completed by SLR. That's dated August 26th. And the commission hired H&H, Greg Del Rio of H&H to peer review that report. Mr. Del Rio submitted his peer review a day or two ago in an email and then formalized it in a formal letter from H&H that was uploaded to the record, uploaded to the application today, September 8th. So, Amy?

Amy Zabotakis, Ruchi Law Group, here on behalf of the applicant, Mosh Up One LLC, which is doing business as Image Studios, Darien. Also joining me tonight is Mike Levy, who is representative of the building owner with his attorney, Attorney Maslin, as well as David Sullivan from SLR International, who performed the parking study, which you received on August 27th. Yes, you received his report, correct? Sorry, I thought I heard no.

Well, I'm not sure about the date. The date of the memo. The date we received him, I believe, is this afternoon. 5.05 p.m. Yes, thank you.

Well, 5.05 is when you would have received H&H's peer review.

Well, that's when we got them all, so that's why we're reviewing right now. Thanks.

Okay. My apologies.

That was supposed to be sent out to you in August. You sent a letter in today, too. Correct. Asking for a 27%.

Just clarifying what the request was, yes. Yes. And I have a, if you, I do have a printed out copy of my letter since I know that just came in late that I can provide if that's easier for you all. That'd be great.

Do you have four of them? Yep. Cool, thank you. I got a beginning question for you, but that's okay.

So I'm not sure that, it's been a while, but I don't know that you need me to go over the actual application itself. As we discussed, this was for individual beauty studios on the second floor at 800 Post Road. i think the main issue of concern was the question of parking availability of parking so since we were first in front of you we've spoken with the building owner reviewed in greater detail the square footage of the building allocated to each tenant and also had the parking study performed by slr I think the most important thing that I can sort of give you aside from the experts' reports is that it became pretty obvious that the problem that people were seeing sort of somewhat anecdotally in this lot was actually illegal usage of the lot. The first thing that happened when we reached out to the building owner is they began to actually monitor this parking lot. We determined that the Dairy and Fire Department had sort of taken over some spots that were not theirs to be used. They've now re-striped those spots. It's clear that those spots are for 1-800 Post Road. The fire department does still have a shed taking up two of the spots, and they have said that they will move that. The building owner is not, you know, they don't have a good relationship obviously with the fire department, so we're not pushing them on that, but they understand that that needs to be done. There are 98 spots available, and since the monitoring has begun, there are far more spaces available. Just sort of, I'll say more anecdotally, all of the tenants have expressed appreciation that now they're having an easier time finding parking in the lot. As I mentioned, SLR did... You also did signage all over the lot.

Correct.

Yeah, that's signage monitoring. Yeah, everything that's improved things quite a bit. So SLR's report, and I'll have Mr. Sullivan speak to you on this, but he did do parking counts in this studio as well as reviewing a studio, an image studio's location in a similar community to get real data for you regarding the parking requirements. What time was that, Amy? It was in Plymouth, Massachusetts. Sorry, I was blanking on it there. Plymouth, Massachusetts. Um, that study did determine that there is adequate parking, um, on this site. Um, the app, the, um, study was peer reviewed. The peer review also found that there's adequate parking on the site. I will note that the one area of concern was that the study was done in August. You know, we found out in late July that this was needed. So we did the count as soon as we could, which was August. Um, I know it's of not of only minimal value, but I personally went to the site today. because we're now in September at lunchtime and counted 30 open spots. So I do think that the numbers that we have from August will be able to be carried through into the fall. So why don't I let Mr. Sullivan, he's the most interesting person here, so why don't I let him speak. Can I ask a question?

Yes, please. How big is this space for the tent?

the the square footage on the second floor is it's the whole second floor so that's that's where I've got the 8184 you know it's it what's interesting about this building candidly is if you look through the prior approvals they're all over the map in terms of what the square footage is that's being allocated to these different spaces you know it depends on whether you include the um you know the the common areas are not do you count to the outside walls the building you know is not exactly square either so it's um i know that the prior special permit that you granted which was what our original application i followed was said that this floor was 600 6 000 some odd square feet yeah i mean the reason why i asked the question is your your profession your pup your

Legal notice calls it 5,564 square feet. And ironically, I sold this building 20 years ago to a private owner. So now we're saying that the legal notice is wrong.

Well, the legal notice, I think, was based on the same 6,000-some-odd square feet that was on the prior application.

I just want the square footage.

So, yes, I would – well, yes or no. I think that the numbers that are in my letter that dated today are the – 8,184 square feet.

Right.

So that's the full gross, includes all the common areas. I'm trying to be as conservative as possible and give you the largest space. But that's not, you know, the numbers necessarily that the leases are based on. Can I just add?

No, no, no, yeah. So we'll get to it in a second. I mean, the tenant's going to pay rent on a square footage, and that's been figured out. So me personally, I would use that number.

But that's not the way that the town necessarily measures parking. Because if you're measuring gross square footage, I have to go from outside wall to outside wall, which is what I'm doing.

I'm just doing what I would do, but yeah. Every single building's got four different sizes. I got it.

The building's got a lot of different sizes. I decided, because of the conversations we're having, I would rather give you the largest possible square footage for this space. As far as their parking space?

That needs the most parking.

Correct. So that I'm being as conservative as possible.

Okay.

That's fine. Yep.

All right. SLR, you're up. Thank you. Greg Del Rio is here. There's Greg. Yep.

Thanks. Again, David Sullivan with SLR. So I guess what I'll do is I'll go quickly through the report, and then Greg had some comments, and I could give you our response to those comments, and that would be the most efficient. Okay, so the scope of what we did is... pretty basic for a parking demand. So we looked at the amount of parking that was currently being occupied out there. And at the same time, we also counted the occupancy at the mechanic street lot, and we also counted the on-street parking, just to get a picture of what's happening in the whole area. What we found in general, because we did counts on Thursday and on Saturday. Now this, when we started the study, we asked for some information, trying to understand, you know, this is not a land use that you could just look up statistics for. So we tried to get a feel for how these operate, and we were told, and the data, as I'll go through, really bears this out, that the... They have these studios within the bigger studio, so to speak, and they don't all operate at once. So there's some occupancy characteristics that need to come into play, but they're also individually operated, so they have different hours. And what we tried to find out is, well, if we wanted the worst... scenario, what should we look at? And we were told Thursdays, you could look at all day on Thursday. They open at 10 and go to, you know, 5 o'clock we count until. And Saturday morning and early afternoon. So those were our two areas where we Collected the the parking occupancy data We found out that the parking situation on Thursdays in that area is much worse than it is on Saturday So then we focus from that point on we focused our studies on Thursday The next thing we had to do is try to figure out what the demands are the the first Information we got was from a site in California that was being studied for the same purposes, and there's much more of these studios elsewhere in the country. And they had some data from three other facilities, and they gave us that information. And it gave us basically a snapshot, but it confirmed that Thursday and Saturdays were the times they looked on looked at and we looked at that information and we took that as a data point. We then thought, you know, it would be nice if we can get something more local, get something more complete rather than just the snapshots that we were provided from the California sites, which we did. So we talked it over and figured that this one particular site in Plymouth, not only would it be similar, but it also is a fairly robust one. 92% of it is leased now, which is a fairly high lease number.

You know there's one of these in Stanford, right? I think there's one in Norwalk, too. Yeah. I don't know why you've got to go to Plymouth, Mass.

Stanford or Norwalk. Sorry, excuse me. The Stanford and Norwalk locations are not image studios. Agreed. We wanted to actually look at the same brand. So that was why we went with the Plymouth location.

But McDonald's and Burger King are the same, right?

We felt that the parking demands for these other types of salons were not as the same as the image studio.

But I think we're using this for occupancy, right?

Right.

Right? Because there's 34 suites and there's 37 chairs. The parking study's got to be based upon the occupancy of the 34 suites and 37 chairs.

Right, which is what we were able to... Mr. Sullivan will continue on, but that's what we were able to determine from the usage of these image studios. The data we received was from image studios, and then they did an actual count in Plymouth, and it bears out that the numbers of the, and I think that was the 34% utilization that I gave to you at the first hearing, is borne out by the data.

Okay, but so no one took the time to go to Stanford or NOAA?

No, no. Let me explain. Because we did have the same conversation. And the problem with these studios is... It's not a problem. They're great. Well, the problem from a parking standpoint of these studios is trying to isolate the parking. So we can't really go to a parking lot if we don't have permission to go inside and actually count the people. That's why our study is based on people and not cars. And we just assumed every person came in a car, which is conservative, but still it's a worst-case scenario. So we had this conversation about looking at other studios. We looked at several around here and had these conversations, and we thought, well, is there an image studio that has similar, not exactly the same characteristics, that we can get permission to go inside? And Plymouth was the one that met all those criteria and allowed us to get this data.

Did you go to Plymouth, or you just got the information from there?

No, we sent people to actually count.

They work for SLR?

They are sub-consultants to us.

Okay. So somebody that you hired went to Plymouth? Correct.

New England Traffic Counts is the name of the company.

No, we use picture takers, too.

Pardon me?

My firm uses picture takers, too, when places are out of town.

Okay. The Plymouth really gave, first of all, gave us the highest data compared to the California sites. And so we use that data and it's a little smaller than what's proposed here. They have a total of 25 chairs. Chairs is one of the, there's two independent or dependent variables, which are the chairs, and the number of studios. There's a couple of studios that have multiple chairs. So we looked at the number of chairs as one variable, and they had 25. This is proposed at 34, I believe.

No. It's 34 suites and 25 chairs. There's three triples. There's three triples. Three doubles.

Right.

So my question to you is the one that's 37, the one that's up there, how many suites is that one?

That one is 25 suites and 28 chairs. Okay, 28. All right, that's different.

Okay. So it's 25, 28. Got it. And ours is 34, 37. 34, 37. So the 34 to the 25. Yep. Yep, we got it. Three triples. Two, three doubles.

So we we made those counts and we only did Thursday because we were pretty pretty convinced that Saturday wasn't our issue here and Every half-hour we counted the number of people there and came up with a peak for their facility And then we took that and prorated it for the number of chairs and and increased it to a peak of 45 peak vehicles, which again assumes everybody that was in that building had a car.

Are you talking about this exhibit, table one? Is that what you're trying to get to?

Table one is the counts, the summary of the counts that we took at the mechanic street lot, at 800 Post Road lot, and at the end of street parking. So that's table one.

Okay, so in your study, what's your occupancy that you're running? You have 34 suites, 37 chairs. What's your occupancy? Or utilization, call it whatever you want.

So how many chairs are occupied?

How many fannies are sitting in the 37 chairs? Yes.

If we assume one fanny for each...

Chair.

Well, and somebody doing whatever they're doing to that fanny.

So two people... Yeah, I mean, I can do the math. I got it.

Right. So two people per chair. Correct. Then we ended up with an occupancy of somewhere between 60 and 65%.

May I rephrase the question? It's a percentage. So if you're saying you got 37 chairs, you run it at 90% occupancy, you run it at 50%?

That's between 60% and 65% occupancy.

Does that say that anywhere in this study of yours?

It does not.

That's the whole thing. That's the whole shoot and match. Well, the shoot and match... No, you have 37 seats, right? What's the occupancy of the seats? You use the word utilization. That's what we're trying to figure out.

Well, what we did, and again, that was one of Greg's questions, which we answered, which I will answer, which is about 60 to 65% is what it is. It doesn't show up in here. We understood that the occupancy and how the one in Plymouth operates is similar in terms of their flow of traffic, their busy days, and whether they have any seasonal variations, which... They indicate they don't. And the Plymouth one was 65% occupied? Somewhere between 60 and 65, depending on...

But you're getting that number from the Plymouth site?

Yes. And it's a range because it depends on how many of their two-chair studios were used.

Just to be clear, the 90% means 90% are leased to people who could work there, but your 60% is what is there on any given time.

Correct.

The utility of the capacity.

There's 25 suites, 92% of them are leased. Out of those 92.

That's what I'm trying to find out.

Is it 62 of 92, or is it 65 of 92?

It's 65 of 100. Okay. Got it. Yeah, he's just making an assumption that it's not leased, that they're always going to be empty plus.

Oh, so it's 65% of 25 suites. Not 65% of 92% of the iPod suites.

Well, it's 65% of suites and 60% of chairs.

Got it. Got it. Okay.

So that's why I said somewhere between 60 and 65%.

So your study only works with those assumptions, though, your parking study?

Well, that, and we found that these statistics were higher than the three California, We found out that the percentage that we calculated when having the anecdotal conversations were above what would be typical here. We also found out that Plymouth, on average, each suite is only open four days a week. And we also found out that each suite on a typical day has less than three and a half transactions a day.

Okay, so if you go to table four, right, at 14 o'clock, which to me I think is two o'clock in the afternoon, you've got 45 cars parked, right? If there's, to me, if there's 45 cars, there's 45 people, that means 22 chairs are full. Is that right?

At least. Because there could be two chairs with one provider.

Right, but you can do chairs or suites. It's 45 divided by two people, right?

Yeah, if only the one chair suites, it's 45 divided by two, yes.

Right. But then if you want to flip it to the other side, then you're going to make it bigger. Because to me, the 38, the ones with dual chairs, I would have figured that I'm waiting in one and my son's getting his hair cut in the other. Unless you're going to put two.

Or one's getting hair cut and it's taking a while and the other one's getting cut.

Yeah. So.

Correct. So there's three people in that room, not two.

So I don't care, I'm just trying to figure out what you did.

We prorated the Plymouth and assumed the same characteristics of Plymouth with the assumption, the one assumption we made is that Plymouth is a relatively successful facility and it would be similar to this facility and when we looked at the three other data points we had it backed up that this was a more successful facility than the three california sites we had so that's what we had to go on so your treatment limit is sort of a maximum um well as a busy day yeah which was thursdays

think anecdotally that all sounds reasonable to me because i think people inherently professionals choose to have this chair in this format because they don't want to work six days a week because they want flexibility because they want to be able to work on you know the three days in their week that works so i think all of that underlying assumptions, just based on the selection of professionals that are going to choose to work in this environment, makes sense. To me, this all makes sense. What you're saying.

Which gets back to how I started. They told me what they thought we would find, and that's what we found.

Yeah, makes sense.

We were comfortable with it. So our next step is to put the existing demands or occupancy together with the increase. And so we did that, which is table five. So to do that, we took the parking lot at 800 Post Road. and ran it for the hours it's open, 10 to five. It may be open a little bit after that, but everything is decreasing significantly. And then there's an existing user on the second floor now. So we had to estimate what that user was doing. So we had a couple of data points, but we weren't able to really segregate it. The data points we had is that they were issued some 27 parking passes, which is another thing they were doing to control the parking lot.

So Jannie Montgomery's got 27 parking passes?

Yeah, they don't use them all. And we found out from them that on a typical day, they might use, as they put it, low 20s, 21, 22 passes. And we looked at ITE, and ITE would say for an office use that it's about 15. So we took off 15 from the peak. And then we looked at what ITE says how to adjust that peak for hours to hours. So every hour that we looked at, It was either taking off a low of 11 or high of 15.

And again, you chose the more conservative route. Exactly. Versus what the current tenant is telling you. Yes. Got it.

And then we took the parking demands we had and added them back in, and we came up with a peak occupancy with all of these... I'll say conservative, but all of these assumptions. And we came up with a peak occupancy of 87, which would take place at about 1 o'clock on a Thursday. And the parking lot, of course, has 96, I believe, spaces. So we have an occupancy of 98 spaces. So again, you're 44 patrons.

That means 22 out of the 34 seats, suites, are occupied. Right, so what's 22 divided by 34?

Okay.

That doesn't include any of the street parking or the adjacent No. That's a great thing.

Okay. So 87 for the 87 future demand in the 90s. Yeah.

Perfect. Okay. So now Greg had some comments, and I'll go through them quickly. The first one was, and I take full ownership of this, that we said the counts were made on July 6th and 8th. They were made on August 6th and 8th. How that got through, three of us reviewing this, I think I'm the last line, so that's me.

So it says Thursday, July 6th. That's Thursday, August 6th.

Yes. And Saturday, August 8th.

Saturday, August 8th.

He also, on that same bullet point, talks about it would be nice to have a follow-up study in September. Well, the best we could do was Amy doing a check at the peak time.

Yeah, we're closing this tonight.

But just to let you know, we did... I talked to the employment person again, the operator there, and she said they don't really have any peaking. The only peaking that's of note is around the holidays. They said the rest of the time, if people need a haircut, they need a haircut.

Yep, makes sense.

Next was to provide the parking requirements for zoning and I think Amy provided that We can go through it, but she provided in her letter This is dated today, which means as per the zoning code you require 125 parking spaces Okay, and we only got 98 so it's a legal matter for me I The next bullet was to provide 24-hour time of day analysis. We didn't do 24 hours. We did the main hours of operation 10 to 5. I didn't see that we'd come up with anything different counting the rest of the day.

So the studio is open 10 to 5?

Those are the peak hours. I don't know if there's actual Sunset time, I don't know. Okay. Well, we'll find out I would think there would be a open after if they needed to accommodate. Right. This stuff is appointment based.

Right. Because there's a restaurant on the ground floor.

Mm-hmm. Which again it doesn't open till 1130 which works nicely with the when you look at the flows of what's happening out there.

Right, but it's a dinner restaurant, so it's open after five.

Yes.

Okay.

Lunch and dinner, yeah. Let's see. Next bullet, backup to parking surveys at existing salons. We provided all the information we had in the report, which was the spot counts in California and the Thursday counts by half hour in Plymouth. So that was in the report. Data is available on how many chairs were open during the survey times. Again, in hindsight, I probably would have instructed the counter to count the number of doors that were open or the number of lights that were on or however it would be. We didn't and we estimated it.

You estimated 65%? 60 to 65. Okay.

Provide data on how many chairs are typically open Again to give you an idea. We're estimating 60 65 percent in the California the highest they gave nine data points two weekday and a Saturday for three different sites and the peak for the three sites ranged from 38 to 47%. So those sites that they counted out there had a much lower percentage. So I think by assuming that 60 or 65% here were probably in a good place. Backup and land use code for ITE, that's for the deduction for the financial offices there and we use land use code number 712 which is small office buildings which is an office building smaller than 10 square feet um and is the current office space fully occupied and the answer is yes the whole building is fully occupied um so then he the last thing is the table and this table um we didn't do and it's useful that um which table the last one in the pair um air review so basically he looked at all the parking in the area what's the table number it's the only table i don't think he's sick on page two Got it, thank you Yeah, so what Greg did And he can correct me if I'm interpreting this wrong, but he took the peak counts at 800 Post Road the peak counts at mechanic lot mechanic Street lot peak on street parking lot and the peak on of what we're estimating for the suites and added them together and compared with all the parking in the area where we land. And he shows us landing at about 84% of the available public parking surrounding this building. Now, he did not do the time of day stuff that we did. He, of course, assumed as we did, because our estimates were based on the one to one, Wait a second. And there was... He didn't take out the office. Oh, and he didn't take out the office that's on the second floor to come up with those 84%. So I did back of the envelope, and if you took all those factors into account, it would be more like 70%, 75% of the area.

Wait a second. I made a mistake. The mechanic street lot is a permitted lot. You can't park there. It's a permit lot that's over permitted.

And there's 98 up front? That's not right. That's 100% wrong.

I thought you were using the parking behind the building across the street that's next to Day Street probably, Mechanic Street. If there's 98 spaces in Mechanic Street, that's a commuter parking lot with permitted spaces. Not all of them, no. I don't know, but that's what they're using. If they're using all 98 spaces there, that's 100% wrong.

Well, we're not using those spaces.

It's in your study, dude.

We counted it.

Adequacy study it's in your table one Greg did and then overall macro, you know environment capacity Right, but Greg use it because you use it we counted it we didn't use it So you just throw it in for kicks

If we were...

If it's superfluous information, why include it?

We don't know what the results are going to be before we do the study. So if we came up with a result that said you're short 20 parking spaces, our next step would be to locate where those 20 spaces would be. And if they were permit... and they needed to get permits, we would say you'd have to get 20 permits.

You can't get 20 permits.

Well, my point is that's why we counted them, to get a feel for what the demands are around there.

You should have asked somebody. You should have asked somebody if it's a permit law. Okay. Any other questions for you? Are you done?

I'm done.

Okay. Any questions? John?

Not for him.

I'm fine for now. Good. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Sounds like we've got Greg Dalrio coming up. Greg, welcome back.

Good evening, everyone. Greg Dalrio, for the record, professional engineer in the state of Connecticut, director of traffic for H&H and peer review for the town. All right, not really sure where to start best here, but so we reviewed the report and some of the calculations and the data they provided. Dave just went over, you know, our bullet points and follow-up.

um i'll have to take a look at some of the you know the responses that they that they provided well let's let's go to let's go to your final conclusion okay and see if you're going to change anything so your final conclusion is based upon the conservative estimates and information provided to date which is excuse me as of thursday it proves that the proposed land use should not result in demands exceeding available supply okay so with that said Your demand period on your thing includes 63 spaces or an occupant of 64% of Mechanic Street, which is 35 spaces remaining.

Correct.

And at the end of your study, you got 33 spaces remaining. So you put zero on that, you're just down negative two spaces.

I'm not so sure what you just said. I'll say it in my words.

He doesn't understand the Mechanic Street. Mechanic Street, you can't credit all spaces because they're permitted for a community.

We don't know of the empty spaces. Yeah, which or which.

Which or which. That's where we're going.

Right? So let's ignore Mechanic Street for now.

That's what he was trying to do. Yeah, let's ignore that.

So my exercise was to give everyone a real feel that says, is there a parking problem in this area? So is there going to be, after this happens, am I going to be able to find a spot? And, you know, the answer seems to be if all of those things checks out, and I have, you know, some questions about that. But if it all checks out, then it looks like it should be okay.

So what are your questions then?

So I have those bullet points that I asked about. So, again, if you... The reason I didn't redo, I did a different calculation, because the way they did their calculation is perfectly fine, and I would have just given you the same exact table back based on those assumptions, right? So there's a bunch of sensitivities that you have already hit upon. How many chairs are occupied? You had a count in California that the maximum was .85. You went to Massachusetts, it's 1.21. So right off the bat, I have a very wide plus or minus 20% there of, you know, how these things are used. So I'm assuming they have contracts.

I'm sorry.

By the way, I've interviewed a few of my friends in the last few days.

I think 65% is spot on. very comfortable with that permanent salons and then it's even less of this type of format.

Do you go during peak times? Do you try to avoid peak times?

I go all the time.

Anthony, did you hear that?

It's expensive.

So one thing I thought might be easy enough, I don't know, would be to find out what the schedule is at these places. They have these contracts, right? I'm paying you the lease. What am I paying for? Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, 4 to 8. Seems to me like it's probably pretty easy to get whatever that was happening on that day. Right, but you have to... So that we can get a real ratio.

No offense, but you have to answer your questions. You have to ask your questions tonight and get the answers tonight so we can close this thing. If we can't close this thing... Well, those are my... Those are your concerns. Those are my concerns. So it's going to go back to the applicant, what they want to do.

Well, now you have a question for the applicant, like if we can cap utilization at 70%.

Right. That was one of my notes during my discussion just now while you were talking. I said, is there a stipulation on 165%?

Okay. So do you care about your last page in your letter? Is this important at all?

The table? Yeah. The table is just showing you that, again, there's quite a bit of cushion here. I mean, I didn't take the office spaces out. I put their peak demand, which is questionable, on top of the 10 o'clock in the morning peak demand, not the demand that's quite a bit lower in the afternoon. Let me stop you for a second.

It was very conservative. If you make Mechanics Street remaining, that 35... To zero? What does that do?

Well, right now, I'll tell you, right? When did they start monitoring the parking lot? After this survey. Those didn't go away. They went to mechanical, right? I mean, logic. And to the street spaces. They didn't go away. Right? There's a demand there. So whoever's not parking in that lot today... I'm pretty sure that they didn't disappear. They moved to somewhere else, right? They moved to a different lot. Isn't that logical?

Yeah, they could be even good wives or something like that. I don't know. I don't know why they went. But to Steve's question, if you eliminate... But it doesn't matter, right?

Because we're still saying mechanic lot had 30 spaces.

30 spaces remaining at your peak time, right? But my point is those are... Those are, a lot of those are permitted slots, spaces.

Again, let's not focus on, we don't need it.

But, right, I get it. But answer the question. If you make that 35 go to zero, what happens?

You said you don't need it.

If I make nothing.

You said you don't need it. That was your question.

You're still, you're going to be a lot closer to having 800 lot full. Because you're at 90 spaces by my count. 88, 90 already. Okay. If you take their 43, right, which is the 1 o'clock demand minus, it's the 55 minus 12 is 43. They have a peak of 45. That's 88. So by their own calculations, 88 in a 98 car lot. So we got 10 new spaces as per . Everything that we're calculating.

So you're not answering my question.

That theoretically could be left over. He did. He said he doesn't need it.

Right?

Therefore, I don't need, I have 10 available spaces, Steve. I don't need to go to mechanic lot.

Okay. See, 90% of the time, this is a landlord problem. If the landlords have enough parking spaces for all tenants, it's their problem. Right? That's why I usually try to stay out of this stuff. Yeah. but if the building requires 125 spaces and we only have 98 spaces.

As per zoning, and now we're doing a shared parking thing, so we're seeing what the real demand is, right? Right. Because zoning doesn't do shared parking, and that's why one of my bullets was, to do a calculation. Now, Dave, you said you did that, but you really didn't. You did that based on the count. I want the ITE table that says third floor is all office. It's got some doctor's offices. That translates to a demand of X over the time of day. That would help to put a nail in the coffin.

Any questions for him? Any questions? No. All right. Who do you want to talk to?

I'd like to talk to Amy just so you'd be willing to do a utilization cap. Because this all works if you assume that 67%. But if you get to 75%, 80%, 90%, and I agree, it's probably not going to happen. Then this all breaks down and we just start getting phone calls.

So Amy Zapatakis. I think, you know, let me respond.

Or reduce the number of seats, one or the other.

Yeah, it means oversized.

So let me respond to a few things. I think what, you know, going back to sort of what is this use. The point of these types of spaces and the reason that the beauty professionals like them is that they can set their own hours. The data from Image Studios, which has properties all over the nation, is that it bears out at every location that people tend to work four days a week, tend to have about three clients a day. So that's where we get the utilization numbers that we're using, which we're using as if this is one of the most successful locations. We do not have the people.

I mean, Plymouth is one of the most successful locations. I'm sorry? Plymouth is one of the most successful. Correct. Okay, thank you.

Yes, Plymouth is one of the most successful locations, and it has the highest rental. They have one suite that's not rented out right now. That's with the 92% work debt.

It's also a much, much bigger town.

And we can't tell you what the schedule is because the whole point is that for these beauty professionals, they create their own schedule. Some of them may do hair at 6 in the morning. Some of them may do hair at 7 p.m. at night.

Our only problem is if they all want to show up at the same time and then book where they overlap. And then you have... Somebody waiting in the waiting chair for a few minutes. That's where it breaks down.

And they're not going to do that here because unlike a salon that has a big reception seating area, they don't have that. Each person has to go out and get their own person, so they don't typically have overlap. They don't book a whole bunch of people back-to-back. It's a... So from that perspective, it is a little different than the other types of salons that you've seen. This is all by appointment only, right? It's all by appointment only because there's no way to walk in because there are, you know.

I'm not worried about walking in. You know, one's going over, then you've got two cars there for about 70%. So my question is, can we, in our resolution, cap utilization at 67%? I don't know how you would do that because you would not, you'd have to look at it centrally in terms of what the appointments are.

But they don't, they don't book. So that's the problem.

Your client is writing essentially 34 individual lease to 34 people on the chairs. Correct. He can control it.

But I don't know that. No, we can't because that's the whole point is that they can schedule, they make their own schedules. And I think we're talking about a phantom because it's not as if this is the first one of these and we don't really know how it operates.

Maybe we can cut it a different way and have a status update check. with potentially a 12-month check-in where if there is a problem, then would they be willing to reduce suites from blank to blank, reduce the chairs or something? I understand that they don't have a master scheduling where Susie's over here and Johnny's over here, and 12 o'clock, there can't be more than X amount of 12 o'clock p.m. bookings, and They missed that window. There might be a way to master schedule, or there might be a way to say, hey, we're willing to look at this in a year's time, and if we have a problem as a community, then they have to be willing to make a reduction.

Or flip it, reduce the number of seats, and if it's really working, you can add seats within six months.

Yeah, I mean, maybe, yeah, to do a check-in.

We did something similar for the Goddard School. Remember, we said that they can, because the Montessori, sorry, not Goddard, Montessori, because Montessori has a higher allowance of students for pupils. We said the lower one, if you could.

I'm sure there's a way, since we're on the margin here and we're talking about a hypothetical, if it happens, it's going to happen the week before Christmas. You know, when it's going to be really hard to determine, are those cars parked illegally because they can't find stuff anyway? So I'm just saying, let's maybe do a check-in.

And I think, yeah, I think we can certainly agree to a check-in with staff, you know, if we want to do six months a year, whatever it is we want to do. I mean, I do think, you know, as per every use in town. You know, if you're looking at Christmas time, you know, there's a shortage of parking. And I do think, and you know, Commissioner Aldani pointed this out, this is to a certain extent also a landlord issue. And we have the landlord here. He is prepared to know start monitoring and working on this parking lot to make sure that the people that are parking there are allowed to park there and the you know he's got to keep his all of the tenants happy before we even start talking about the town as a whole so you know there is a lot of incentive here for for the landlord to get it right um and to make sure as we move forward that there is adequate parking and i think you know we haven't really talked about this but in my but you know the the hours of operation which is why it works as a shared parking agreement um for the building as a whole the 27 waiver you're looking for yeah you're looking at you're actually asking that as per the landlord's council

Your as a tenant, it's not as for a 27% waiver. It's really the landlord that is.

Well, in order for you to approve this use, that's the shared parking agreement.

But the landlord's got to put it in place, right?

Well, no, that's for each, and you look at it per use. That's the way you've typically looked at it.

Okay, so the 27% waiver is for your client is the salon.

Right, for this special permit use.

Right, and then you get, you need 41 spaces. So of your 41 spaces, you're, what are you, 27 over, right? You take 125 and you subtract... Are you trying to get down to 98?

Well, that would be, that's...

Putting all the onus on you.

Putting all the onus on us.

Correct, which is you're the only one here.

Which is, I mean, you know, we've looked at it as a shared parking arrangement for all of the tenants that are in this building.

I mean, so that's what I was about to go through, is we've got... Yeah, but you can't ask for Burger Shakes and Fries to reduce their parking by 30% so that it can accommodate your use. You can only ask for your set of parking to be reduced by some number of amount.

The landlord can ask for a shared parking agreement.

But there's a shared parking agreement already in place because of the numerous. The parking counts were over with Jenny Montgomery.

There's a shared parking agreement in place? Yes.

It was part of the record here.

Can I see that, please? Sure.

That's the shared parking agreement that was part of the original approval for the building.

I didn't know that. I apologize.

It was a while ago.

A long time ago. I think it was when the building was first built. That was when the building was built, yes. 70s, 80s? I don't have the date. All right, so we have just... You know, we have...

This is probably your application number. Correct. I'm sorry.

That's okay. It was a while ago. So we have, you know, we have Burger, Shakes, and Fries, which doesn't open until 1130, and it stays open until 9. So there's, you know, some overlap, but, you know, not complete. Bar Method opens at 6 a.m., closes at 7.30 p.m. on weekdays. Their busiest times are that 6 a.m., before 10 a.m., which is when we sort of start to see people starting to show up at the image studios. The dentist, 7 a.m. to 6 p.m., also likely to have a lot of morning appointments. Physical therapist opens at 5.30 a.m. They're open until 7 p.m. And then we've got Janie Montgomery, which right now has typical business hours of 8.30 to 4.30. And all those spots, which is, according to the tenant, approximately 23 on a normal day, will be removed from the lot. And those cars are the ones that sit there all day long and don't come and go, which opens up spots where, as our tenant, will be a lot of coming and going. Thanks. the best case scenario you hang out a bar back did you go upstairs and get your hair done and then go get a beer get that shoulder worked on yeah get after the beer and then get your teeth cleaned with the dentist on the way up so um so i mean i can if you have any other questions i can answer but i do think that the use is in harmony with the surrounding area it brings a new type of business to town that we don't have currently. And I think it is good because it gets some of these personal services off of the first floor in the central business district, which I thought was something we were trying to have more retail on the first floor and personal services above.

So at one point there was a shared parking memo that you included with Good Wives or whatever it's called now. Is that now revoked or removed?

It's not revoked or removed. I mean, it goes back to this, you know, taking a look in a year and see if, I mean, based on the parking study, We don't think we need it. But as was said in the letter from the landlord, and as I said, the landlord and his attorney are here, and maybe you want to have them speak to it, but they did say that if there's an issue, you know, if they need to keep their tenants happy, they can work with Good Wives about getting some overflow parking over there.

Oh, so that was just we can try to get... Parking I thought I read it that there was an agreement that they could get overlooked There's not an agreement in places again.

We don't need it But there you know if we were to do it, you know again This is why I think this idea of maybe doing a check-in and six months or a year makes a lot of sense because if there is an issue hopefully before anything comes before the town, it'll certainly go to the landlord and he'll be working on it on his own.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. That's a deliberation question for us. Let's close it. One last question. The leases from between your client and the person that cuts the hair, how long are those typically? Are they a license agreement for a year?

A year, yeah.

Because after a year... then your client cannot renew Amy Zabatekis Salon Inc.'s license to get their utilization down. You can't affect the lease between the landlord and the tenant.

I understand.

So we can deliberate and figure out how to best. I just want to know. Six months doesn't do anything. But if they're five-year leases, then we're toast. We have no control. Okay. Would anybody in the general public like to speak to this application? You guys are part of the public.

Greg, do you have something you want to add?

Right, because he's got to sign off on it, too. Let's go to the public first, because Maslin's itching. And his client's a really good golfer.

Robert Maslin, representing the...

Building owner. Building owner, not the land owner.

The land owner is the fire department. Understood. A couple of things. The landlord has put in place monitoring their signage. There's a person there during the very peak time in the morning. That has relieved the pressure quite a bit. The experience was you had people parking there and go to Starbucks, people parking there and going to the train for the day. Occasionally, the real estate office across the street has a meeting, and then you get a bunch of people parking in there. Not supposed to. That's what the monitoring is all about. Second this kind of situation is tends to be self policing because if people can't park they can't go to the Businesses that are in the building the tenants start complaining the landlord has to do something about it. So It kind of polices itself. Yeah, but also puts the other thing that I did hit me while I'm listening we're talking about Plymouth and California and why not think about something in Darien office suites of Darien and where I am. That is analogous. I completely understand it's not the same thing, but when you have a situation like that, there's always a vacancy rate. So you don't have all of the spaces rented all of the time. And then among the spaces that are rented, not everybody uses their space all the time. And from what I was hearing, from Amy and Dave Sullivan. It's a similar situation with this proposed use. You know, you have vacancy rates and I just wanted to put that out there because it's something that's in Darien already. It's not the same thing. I fully understand that, but the point is. Your point is the same as Sini's point. Yeah, it's not a 100% full thing and it's not of the people who are renting. They don't use it 100% of the time. So it's just the nature of that type of leasing arrangement. And I can speak about the business. type situation with office suites and I think that was what they were trying to explain. So hopefully you'll see that this works. I was in that building back up until 2002. George Riley was there with me.

That was a long time ago.

Never had a parking problem and we had a retail paint store downstairs and I think, what was it, the lollipop shop or the rainbow shop or whatever it was. Rainbow shop. Rainbow shop. That was it. Beanie Babies when they had the big thing with beanie babies. We had the entire second floor and part of the third floor Dr. Weiss was up there then, and it was a full, full building, and we never had a parking problem.

But, Bob, there was a parking problem, and I know you're policing it now. What's that? There was a parking problem there, and I know it's being policed. More recently, yes. I hope you understand the sensitivity. I'm just saying when I was there. I understand. When I was there. I understand the sensitivities that we have, okay? Yeah. And so that's why I'm asking about, you know. You know, setting a lower cap and maybe raising it in six months, if it all worked out. Because it wasn't working out, and there were unhappy tenants there.

Yeah. But I'm just saying, when I was there, we didn't really have that problem. All right?

Okay. Thank you. Anybody else want to speak to this application from the general public?

Go ahead. Mike Levy, thank you for having us.

Just say your name and your affiliation, Mike.

Mike Levy. My company owns the building. The building really never had a parking problem. It had a parking abuse problem. And it was really obvious. And it wasn't... In the last five or six years, it's only really surfaced in the last six months. And so we took steps. We started the process, actually, back in March. And then... started putting the tow signs, putting up the signs, and then we've initiated the permits in July, and it's been a dramatic decrease.

That's the 27 permits to Lake Janney?

Yeah, I mean, and the number of permits, like, candidly, are a little irrelevant, because you're going to give them extra, and they have employees, like, for instance, that don't come in. Some come in occasionally, some come part-time, and so... I'd be cautious to measure your utilization based on the number of permits.

Right, you can't give permits to burgers, shakes, and fries.

They have part-time workers, right? So everybody needs one. But I would just say it's been a dramatic shift in the issue. We've hired a towing company, we're working with them, and we'll be proactive with whatever we can do to keep the tenants happy. We actually redid the signs to make one of the other tenants happy and we'll continue doing those because it is our problem You know if the tenants aren't happy then they're not gonna want to renew and I have a big problem. So But we're on top of it and I do think this I'm excited about this use because I think it complements the building really nicely if it was another financial services company, we wouldn't be in the meeting because I don't believe we need the special permit. And their density could be significantly higher than this. And they're going to be there all day long. So I think this is actually a far better use for the building. And it's really, we're only talking about all this stuff because it's not a traditional office tenant. And so hopefully you see it through our lens. I think the ideas are great. I appreciate all the time you guys have put into it. But I'm hopeful that you guys approve this because I think it's very positive. Thank you. That's it.

All right. Let's hear from Del Rio. Greg, you have to come to a conclusion because you're not getting any more information after tonight that we can use. I just had a couple of questions for the applicant.

You're going to ask us and we're going to ask him. There you go. So table one was a summary of their existing conditions survey of the parking lots in the area. In their SLR report, August 26th. Table one, first column, Boston Post Road 96, which is now 98, I believe, right? We moved the shed. Yeah, I'm sorry. Okay, so I just wanted to confirm that. And at 1230, we had 58 cars back in August. Yes?

Yes. All right.

And that was before this more stringent enforcement?

This is the parking count. Your table went right. I got you. Correct?

Yes. Yeah, it's after. After the enforcement? Yeah, it started in July. Okay. So, Amy, you went by there today, and 30 open spaces around 1230. Well, that would mean 68 spaces were occupied. So this is, it says 58. You're saying today is 68. So there's 10 more spaces today are occupied than when they did their survey. Keep going. Okay. Well, that 10 makes a big difference. We just lost our cushion, and now we're over-parked. Under-parked. We're under supply, over demand.

Correct. See, under-parked, okay. That's close. That's on the margin.

That's our whole premise is that it's on the margin, yeah.

Well, we like to say 90% is on the margin, right, because you've got to find a spot, and then you have a congestion problem, people are waiting for someone, and they're not circulating. But, you know, pushing the limit. We're right there.

Got it. Okay, then what about if you take, do you care about, and near table one, if you take Mechanic Street out, does that matter? No?

I don't know what the picture is today, Steve. Well, you know. Right? Okay. Okay. What else? I think you said a few things. I mean, you talked about capping it. I think they talked about maybe putting the employees or shared parking into another lot nearby.

Okay.

Right? There are ideas out there to mitigate.

So based on today's testimony, does that change your conclusions on your letter dated this morning?

Well, there's a big if on my findings, which is to review all the, and to redo the survey in September or, you know, outside the summer hours.

We can't keep this thing open for Greg to do his stuff, right, Jeremy? Yeah.

I don't, you know, I haven't seen the data that was gathered from these other facilities. You know, they had somebody out there. There's raw data. I could take a look at that. I don't know. But we can't. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I'm stuck, guys. I'm sorry. That's fine.

That's fine. Do you want to answer any questions, officer? And then Amy can close this? Yeah. Yeah, please. We've got to close this thing out.

So, Amy counted twice today. One time there was 40 open spaces, the other time there was 30. There's also the fire shed and the fire truck that were out there, which are taking up empty spaces. When I did my Calculation from 96, minus 30, 66, and minus 3 for ones that were occupied. I came up with 63, which is 5 more than 58. If you use the 40, which was 15 minutes earlier, it's actually a little bit lower. She counted 40 at the other time. And what she noticed was that there was a changeover in a session. So I think that's what we're talking about in September. And again, I'd love to be able to have done a full day, but half the day was already gone. So I think that's what we're talking about with the seasonal changes. These are not really seasonal uses that are out there today, say on some vacation. There was another point about- We're just trying to have you give information so Greg can smile.

He's not smiling.

Yeah, and- I know, I know. And, you know, again, I think, you know, we're showing that we have an excess of, we show 87, so we have an excess of 12. What page are you on? I'm on table 5, which is on page 6. So we have an excess of 98. We have an excess of 11. 98 versus 87. Right. And if we take the additional five that Amy counted today, and again, I hate to put too much weight into that single count, but if we take five, then maybe we're halfway there. But again, that's halfway there, assuming they're operating full guns like Plymouth is,

And you've layered on conservative, conservative, conservative to get this basis. Right. Understood.

So, you know, I think we're fine. I think a six-month check will, you know, I always like follow-ups because most times they validate what I've done. So I'm fine with that. But, of course, it's not my decision. Okay.

It's our decision.

Okay, hey, we want to close this up Thank you Sure, so just I'll just say since I was the one that actually went out there today Yes, it was 40 when I first got there. It was I went got lunch went back again It was 30 what time you there I was there between 12 and 1230 I went and looked and there was a bar method class that started at 1215 so I think that's what that why there was such a you know that that changeover and And, you know, and that's, I think Attorney Maslin sort of mentioned this, that one of the nice things about this is that all of the uses now that we're talking about, you know, changing this from an office to this type of use, now we've got people coming and going, which is, you know, they're going to go to other businesses in town. You know, this is, again, what we want to see in Darien. I don't, I think we should be moving away from having places that are over parked i i do understand that there was an issue in this lot and that is 100 on the landlord to start monitoring the lot and making sure that it works for all the tenants but at the same time i don't think we want to have a lot where we're leaving this hearing thinking we're going to have 20 empty spaces at peak times five empty spaces at peak times is about as much as you should really have if you're not asphalting a whole lot of space that shouldn't be asphalt.

Did you notice the street parking when you were there? Probably wasn't anybody parked on the street. There were very few cars, right? Very few cars on the street. So that's your overflow valve, too.

Okay. And I will also say the part of Mechanic Street lot, which is not the permit lot, I did happen to notice there was about six empty spaces in there, but I didn't include that because that wasn't part of what we were looking at. Okay. So anyway, I think that this is, I think it is a good use. I think the studies support that there's enough parking for it, and I would really like to see the commission approve this so we can get this in business in town.

Thank you. Thank you. With that said, the motion to close. Is the motion to close? Is there a second? All in favor? Hearing is closed. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. All right. We have another landowner. Bob, you're going to be sticking around, aren't you?

All right.

Next item up is special permit application number 302B as in boy, also known as PL26-124. Pause studios at 15 Corbin Drive. Opposed to establish... A new personal service tenant in the first floor space now occupied by Darien Toybox, a retail tenant. The subject property is located on the north slash east side of Corbin Drive, approximately 220 feet south of its intersection with Boston Post Road. It's shown on assessor's map number 72 is lot 25 in the central district CBD Corbin Drive. district-Corbin subdistrict CBD-CS22. Make the record reflect that George Riley is back on those dates. He didn't go anywhere. Fred, what do we got?

This is before the Commission for Special Permit Review. This is a change in use from a retail commercial sales and service business, which is the Darien toy shop, to a personal service business. The proposal is to establish a new Wellness personal service studio in the roughly 2,400 square foot space currently occupied by the toy box on the north side of Corbin Drive. The business PAWS offers infrared sauna, contrast therapy, sauna and cold plunge, IV drips, red light therapy, massage, and float isolation services. Hours of operation are from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. seven days a week with two to four employees on site at any one time. The application was referred out to Mindy Shambhala, Health Department. She submitted an email for the record, dated August 17th, noting, my only comment or concern would be the level of oversight associated with some of the modalities being offered. Will any medical staff be employed? And does this type of business will not require a Health Department plan review or annual permit? It was also referred out to the building department. The building official, Mike Vitti, submitted an email for the record dated August 17th, noting no issue with the application. Also referred out to the fire marshal's office. Fire Marshal Bob Bush submitted an email for the record dated August 18th, noting no issue with the application. And then a series of emails dated August 18th between Captain Allison Hudema of the LTA, David Genovese, and myself regarding parking supply. Ultimately, it was noted that the parking garage associated with the Corbin District would be opened and running prior to the business opening. So David Genovese is here this evening with, I believe, the business owner to present the details of the application.

Okay. Before you go, David, let me just ask a threshold question. This came up years ago with regards to a tenant that was supposed to go to 1020 about needles and Botox. We never let that tenant come in because it was some kind of thing. You couldn't have an acupuncture or needles in the CBD zone.

Do you remember that? I do remember, I don't remember the exact tenant you're talking about, but we had, I think the question was a distinction between office and personal service at the time. Was it functioning more as a medical office than a personal service? John, were you here for that? I believe I was.

Because the tenants, the proposed tenants thing would have said that if you can't have needles, how come it says COVID shot, I mean flu shot available today at CVS Pharmacy, which is very excellent. Remember that? You remember that? I wasn't here. Yeah, I think that there was Dave Keating.

If I could just add, I mean, we built in David Genovese for the applicant. We built and managed 1020. We never made an application for any kind of needling use or anything else.

I thought it was a Botox person that was supposed to go in there. It was.

It was the second floor right above. That I would remember. Well, no, Merrill Lynch is on the second floor.

Yeah, I know.

Could have been someplace else, but it wasn't 1020. Okay. But you're allowed to have meals and CBD?

Yes. Because that goes to the IV drip thing. Because they were supposed to put an IV drip over at Palmer's too. And that never happened.

Yeah, I think what we've talked about many times is how you have zoning and then I'll call it technology changes. And these things didn't exist 10, 15, 20 years ago. None of these. Three years ago. Yeah. So it's kind of interesting that as Fred and I hear all these proposals and you as chairman here, some people come in with some ideas and we're like, we read the book and try to scratch our heads. Animal dermatology was one. Yes, and that was very recent. So, yes. We have to make sure we... Consistent.

Well, in the consensus, we also have to make sure it's allowed. Yep. Sir, welcome. Thank you.

Please state your name for the record. David Genovese again from Baywater Properties and the developer of the Corbin District. So let me just pause for one sec because I want to hit it on the head too with Allison, Captain Udima's comment too about the parking. I just want to remind all of you, some of you were there when we proposed Corbin. When we divided Corbin up construction-wise into two phases, we put the squeeze on the parking downtown. I'm happy to say I worried a lot about how the stores would perform with parking only on one side of the street and the reserved parking for Merrill and the medical tenants on the other side. I would say that three years later, no one closed, everyone's business is doing well as far as we know, and our tenants are very communicative with us. Do people complain about parking? you know the ease of access to pop into Barrett and pop out they do so I'm not gonna kill the lily it's just reality but what we remind everyone is that this was designed and approved in this commission when we made the application put a lot of pressure on us to not consider the use of any municipal parking so you made us basically and we agreed to it we didn't challenge it make sure that we provide sufficient parking for all the uses on site we got to count i think the post road and corbin drive but that was it um so you know we're building almost 900 parking spaces it's about 40 of the cost of the whole project um so i'm pretty sure we've got a good situation here and from a tenancy point of view This is actually the current leasing plan. So this shows you all of the leased spaces. So you can see we're almost 95% leased at this point.

That's in a building across the street.

Yeah. So, you know, this is their bookstore in Bank of America. Oh, okay. This is 15 Corbin with shoes and more green and tonic, the toy box and Rosie. Everything is Rosie here. Helen Ainsen and Compass. We had given, I think, The chairman used to tease me, said I was the only developer in the country crazy enough to do this. We had given up tenants options to relocate. So we moved them once and we had an agreement that if they wanted to move back to the post road, which some of them were really adamant they wanted to, they could do that at our expense. We would move them. The toy box chose to relocate here. He wants to be in the center of the green. Yeah.

That's the best real estate. He's going to be around a bunch of restaurants and tables. Yes. Between Tate and Millie's. My kids are going to go crazy.

Bring your wallet. Exactly. Rosie also was adamant. Well, she flip-flopped for a while, but then she ultimately came to the conclusion she did want to move. So we're moving her over to the post road. Tucker not going to move. By the way, I just want to say thank you, because I don't know if you remember, some of you were here, but we were originally working with L.L. Bean for a 15,000-foot store that it would have been this entire space, and then L.L. Bean flagged down on us. I promise I'll be brief. I just wanted to give you a background. L.L. Bean flagged down on us, and I could not find... a great tenant that I thought should be the anchor tenant and the first tenant people see when they come in here of that size. We talked to Crate and Barrel. They were interested, then they flagged out. We got calls from Ulta Beauty, stores like that. I just didn't think they were the appropriate tenant. So we made the tough decision to reduce our retail square footage and increase parking. So we added this whole bay of parking in the above ground garage. So we added, I can't even remember now, 80, 90 spaces, something like that. There's four levels of parking that would have been a retail store. So we downsized the retail. And that set us up for what we're really excited about, because we're pretty confident that Tucker Nook is just a great anchor. It's a beloved store. Darien is like their number one market in the country, literally. And this is all women's clothing. This is home goods and interior design. store, women's clothing. This is industrious. They took the whole four floors. Pinocchi, Rome, Millie's. We're working with a retail tenant, women's clothing store for this space. Asha is a Darien resident. Ashley McCormick, who has a jewelry and clothing line. Framebridge, Cups and Cones, Tate. Corsica, a French-Italian version of a Barcelona restaurant. Minilux, a more upscale nail salon from Boston. Yoga Spark, French Press, and actually Stretch Lab is not going to proceed here. We're going to be talking to you guys about a different use here, and we're going to eliminate this retail use here, this restaurant use here that was approved as a restaurant. So that's one of the reasons why I wanted to get together with you in French is to kind of go through the high level.

Where's the industrious?

Over here.

Oh, okay.

Okay. So Toy Box will relocate to here. Rosie will relocate to here. We signed a lease with South Moon Under, which is a clothing store, men's, women's, children's clothing store for the Rosie space. And with me is Kush Kirpalani, who's going to be the owner of Stretch Lab, excuse me, PAWS Studio Darien. I met PAWS through Barry's. Barry's Boot Camp is one of the workout places that'll anchor the project. The founders of PAWS are close with the leadership team at Barry's and they like to be near each other. We've been spending a lot of time talking to tenants about Who do you want to be near? What do you want to have nearby? Who's your customer? And what else would they like? And you're going to start to see paws popping up nearby berries pretty often. It's a 2,400 foot store. As noted in the memo, two to four employees. The range is two to four employees, four to 10 patients or customers at any one time. They will run seven days a week. And Kush can answer any detailed questions you have about the business. But, you know, we like the use and we like the, Barry's really loves the use and loves the kind of synergy between the two. Sauna's and Cold Plunge have become super, super popular and not everybody has room for one at their house. And so, plus we also have a lot of office employees, you know, in the new project with Aon and McKinsey and other people who would be great customers for Cush. One last thing I'll add before I turn it over to Kush if you have questions is there is a PAWS studio in Greenwich. It's at 100 West Putnam or East Putnam? East Putnam. East Putnam, 100 East Putnam, a building that... Who are the Australian guys they built? I forget what they're – Wellbuilt. Wellbuilt is the development company. So they – you must have met them somewhere.

I'm thinking of 34 or 40.

So they built a mixed-use building in Koskob. It's kind of in the middle of nowhere. It's not really next to – it's not near downtown. It's adjacent to a CVS and what used to be a Porcelli's Market. You know that building where Porcelli's Market is? So they only can rely upon their lot and they have nine parking spaces that they have reserved for the whole use. So when you think about Rosie and the number of people that work at Rosie and the number of customers that are typically in there because she does a good business, it's very similar. The hours are longer though.

How many square feet do you want to crouch?

2,700. 2,700. This is 2,423. Great. If you speak, you have to identify yourself up here.

The only reason we're seeing this is because it's a change in use from retail to personal service.

Sir, welcome. He talks a lot, so you can tell us what you're doing.

Thank you for having me. I'm Chris Crippolani. I'm the franchise owner for Paul's Darien.

Welcome. So what do you want to do here? You want to open up a cool studio or something?

Yeah, it's a wellness studio. It's focused on physical and mental wellness, five different modalities. We've got contrast therapy, which is the cold plunge infrared sauna. We've got float therapy, which is a giant pod. It's got 3,000 pounds of Himalayan salt. We've got the LED light therapy, which is great for collagen, skin cells, etc. We've got the cryotherapy, which is essentially a walk-in freezer. You can freeze yourself for three minutes. It's really great for blood circulation. And then IV trip is really the core of the business, about 40% of the business. We will have a partnership with the medical director and a full-time RN to administer the IV trip.

And how long are the typical visits?

So you can pick a session from 30 minutes, 45 minutes, or one hour for either the contrast therapy, float therapy, or even the LED light therapy. The LED light therapy starts at 10 minutes. You can even do that. Cryotherapy is three minutes max. And then IV drip typically lasts about 20 minutes.

And then do you have to clean it afterwards? Is there a gap between appointments?

Yes, yes. There's about a 15-minute gap in between each appointment.

Is it by appointment only, or is it a walk-in?

Yes, correct. Yep, they use online services. We're in the process of developing an app to book services. Like an app to be able to do the scheduling. Yep. I'm so sorry.

I've got to look at my computer for it to...

So then, so you're... It sounded like you have six different things that you do? Correct. All right, and so six different things. You have four to ten customers at a time. That means all six things are being used, and you've got some people waiting? Do I show up 10 minutes early for my IV drip?

Or do you have a couple of multi-IV drips going?

Yeah, you can probably do two IV drips.

Yeah, so there's about, we have four, I think on the floor plan, we have four chairs for the IV drip. We have four contrast therapy rooms. Each of the contrast rooms can hold up to three people inside the infrared sauna. The cold plunge is really just for one person. I would take typical uses, either one to two people. And that's couples going in or friends going in? Couples, correct.

You're not going in with a random? No.

No shared room. I think the great part about this is the privacy that everyone can come and be welcome to. The IV trip is administered here, so we'll have four chairs, essentially, here. We'll have this retail space over here. We've got some vitamins, supplements, some water.

What's a bottle of water cost?

That's the entrance, right? This is the entrance here. So this is a contrast room. This is a contrast room. This is a contrast room. This is a contrast room. You can see this is the cold plunge. These are the infrared saunas.

What does contrast mean? I'm sorry.

Contrast means you move from the hot to the cold. So the infrared sauna into the cold plunge. Look at you.

You all look serious.

You know what? It is very popular. He's going to need it after this. I'm going to need the isolation test. You'll find me in the isolation test.

You're sitting in infrared light staring that way. All right.