Architectural Review Board - Regular Meeting

Hello and welcome to a very busy evening at the Architectural Review Board. Today's Tuesday, September 16th, 2025. We have a huge agenda tonight. So, we are going to try to be as precise and uh tied up as possible. We have one piece uh one item that's from our July meeting, one old agenda item, which is Ralph Ralph's Bakery, 346 Heights Road. We're going to start with that. Awesome. Great guys. brother. Hello guys. Uh this is ARB2 20225. Hi guys. So introduce yourself and your relation to business and what you do. So this is my mother and I here. Um Rio and Raphael. Raphael's my dad. Her husband here. Uh we're a little family operation. I got my two younger brothers that works here as well.

What are your names? Um Kellian. Sorry. Should have started with that. Uh my mom here as well. Kellian. Kelly. Kellian. Um E L I A N. last name Zker. Very complicated. D E Q U E K E R. So, um we're classic French baker here. Um our brands,

our brand is definitely uh very orange here. Um we're going to be right here uh at Heights Crossing. So, these are the signs that we had uh brought up. I just want to show you the last page here. You can we give some background just to the Airbnbs. Previous in July, we approved a cutout. You approved a cutout of just these layers right of the letters. They would be in orange applied just orange, no background. And then you decided like like a little background would be better. So it would have been orange on a white background.

And we felt like because the building is enclosed. So imagine this space from the street. We're right here. So if you're from anywhere in the street, you you can see us. The only way you're going to see us is when you pass through heights crossings right here. There's about like 20 ft where you're going to see us, right? So you want more increased visibility. So because there is no visibility,

the older design is on the screen right. So that was and we felt like it would be like washed out a little bit too much. So that's why we went back to the drawing board and figured if they could do that that would be great. So orange background. I know you everyone thought like the orange was a little aggressive. Yeah. We just need to see in person. Yeah. This is really like our branding. It's not something we came up and decided, oh we want orange so that people can see us. Like if you go in Greenidge and you see an orange cup, you know it's Raphael's bakery. So for us it's kind of important. Our apron is orange. And I know there was a little um discussion about that that looks like a little bum. So

bunny ears. Bunny ears. So what if we do that square instead of getting round? So around the little baguettes are really our branding as well. Like you will see on the hat right here, you have a baguette. You'll see on the E. That's our idea. It's it's a great idea. So we feel like on the sign if we don't have that, we kind of lose our identity. So if either we can do that square this way there is no rounder there is no misinterpreation or just extend the orange up to here and just do the orange like I think you lose the baguettes then if you extended it cuz they're not you know they're not they're a little

I would do like maybe like the square instead of rounded and the orange was very important for us because it's it really is our corporate brand and when people I mean I have fledge. One of the uh question that was asked is to bring a choice of real life oranges because it was hard to tell on the computer. So whichever one you still like and which obviously our favorite art would be this one, but we would be open do all this. This one is a little off I mean of brands. So any of those three would work perfectly with us.

That's a preference for the top one. Um but we'll take anything. Um I I like it. It's branding. It's tucked in corner. I mean I think it's fantastic. It's a good sign. Thank you. All right. Varable report. So support for the 16 panon 16364. Support for squaring off the baguettes at the top. Size everything else looks great. Location on the building. Awesome. Thank you for coming out very much. Exciting to bring you some next. Thank you so much, guys. We're so excited to be in

Darian. Next up, we're going to new business is ARB number 2625 for Longevity. Oh, that's me. Beautiful. You don't have any toys for us? Can you bring food? Literally nothing. Uh, this is 883 Boston Post Road. Yeah. Um, look, so you know what you could do for a little space. Can you pop up behind the um Sure. Make you feel like you're a good podium. Make you feel like you're back in high school again giving a speech. Thank you. So, introduce yourself and what your relation is to the business and what you like.

Sure. Sure. I'm Sarah Lacarooa. I am the physician founder of the business and we are slated to open at 883 Boston Post Road shortly. And as per holds up your record, what are you proposing? And peaches peach colored sign. Okay. Your specialty is the fitness, not the signage. I'm like, I don't have anything other than my files. It's okay. We We review everything in advance. That's okay. Yes. So, this is this is a mockup.

There should be three different Yes. So, there's three different signs. Uh, this is in the back in the back parking lot. Um, do you guys know where this is? It's next to Marvita. Thank you. Sure. And then two in the front. The main sign and this. And then there's another document that has the dimension. There should be a document with dimension. The one that's under color. Perfect. I had I had a couple questions. Um, so are these um individual letters that are cut out and then just adhered to the board or are they pin mounted? What is the material?

I think the material is going to be wood. I think they're going to be wood. I have not ordered it yet because I didn't know. Okay. So, you don't know how it's going to be applied? How it's going to be applied? No. Say that again. Right. You don't know. But you don't know if it's going to be like on pins. We can look at the cloud 10 really quickly. It can be adhered smack onto the board or it can be pin mounted like that. So it kind of floats off the fascia of the board a little bit. So we say which can we give a preference? Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I I pin mounted so it sticks.

Is this pin mounted? that one. So, I'm going to put in our letter to you to pin him out. So, right now it says it's half an inch thick. And my question would be, is the thickness painted black or is this just a shadow? No. No. It's all It's all It's all pink each. So, this would be the shadow. That's just a shadow. Okay. Just It would read pretty well. Is it Is there any way I could just do it? Why Why do we prefer this versus this? It just is more sophisticated, looks better, but um some depth on the building as well. It floats more. What about like a thicker wood and then flat mounted?

I think you want it pink. It's not usually a big deal. Okay. It's not like a traditional. It's just it's going to make your side look better. Still working on that. They might also have some recommendations based on like what the condition of that side is. Okay. Yeah. So this would be pin mounted directly to the fascia board. Not you're not going to pin mounted to a board and then the board is mounted to the facial. Okay. That's a question but I suppose it's a recommendation too. Yeah, it's a recommendation. I don't think Sarah knows what the facade on the building.

Yes, I understand. Yes, I I can certainly do that. Dave, I didn't hear what you're saying. I'm not a sign maker, unfortunately. Is there a plan to paint the back of that to freshen it up? Okay. Yeah. Um there's a lot of sign makers we work with, but if you could let them know like whoever you work with, there's guys in town, so I've been communicating with Kevin. I don't know if he's Fantastic. Great. He's he'll be here tonight actually. You'll probably run on the way out. But um if you use him, let him know the board requested doing pin mounted letters in his case. Okay.

But you're worried about the the accent goo. Yeah, I'm worried about the accent and then I'm also worried um if that fascia is soft or poor quality. Um it might be difficult. Um let's put a recommendation if Kevin has issues you or he can follow up with us and we can discuss administratively. Does that sound good?

I like the color. I like the size. I liked Harvey's um suggestion though about doing the depth of the letter being black. That really made the for it made it bounce a little bit versus like if you're on a white sign, you get a peach background. The way that he's made it look, it makes it look like that the the thickness of the letters actually even if it was a darker darker um pink or like a black, it would make that letter pop a lot more. All right. Okay. Or even a gray. Gray. Yeah. Something something something to make it. Yeah. The gray to match would be perfect. But just something will make your letter. Okay. Perfect. On the size of the letter. Correct. The thickness

makes it size is okay. Size is okay. Is that the same size? The back. Can you go back to the body? The deck is smaller and the spacia is less even less happy in terms of maintenance. Landlord said they would be painting it prior to installation. Right. They may have to over here there's like a joint and I think they have to like paint speckle or something to make it more uniform. Yeah.

But that's Yeah. So your sign would look better if it's the blade. 3x almost 38,000. Oh, that that's bigger than when we first look at it. That's too big. That that those letters in my mind like that board like those letters pop or recess or do something like it looks like it's just applied like so that looks super flat. Mhm. like either either the letters should be recessed or or um they stand out a little

or you can do the trump leg trick of the eye of you know drawing perspective of thickness kind of yeah I think I I think they it just needs a little bit something because those letters look beautiful like right they stand out your sign well I see a lot of white on the sign as well so maybe it doesn't need to be 24 in maybe it's 18 long Maybe you can shrink it up because it just make your your letters stand out more that way. Yeah, I agree with that, too. Mhm. Yeah, I'm very open to anything. That's all. That's all. Um, okay. So, let me sum. Sorry. So, for the blade sign, we're shrinking the size of it off like 4 in, 6 in, 8 in, six.

Can we give an exact? Can we help Sarah give her an exact size? Maybe 18. 18 by 34. Okay. 34 the prior size. We only did this because this is the size of the check body mine side that I literally have in my office. Oh, so it fits with it's the same as body. Okay. I'm glad you have that reference. That's and the arm is from their size. All right. If you could keep it this size, I would just appreciate it. Well, I think it can be it's it can be that 34 and have that same

it just cut the because it was check body line. It was like three three lines, right? Like yours is one line. So like just make it bring it up some so that it will your like the long pops more than the the white background that was so 34 by 18. Yeah. And then what you we're doing applied letters on this as well. Either applied or recessed. Okay. Get something. Yeah. Something kind of lines up to this column. It's hard to tell, right? I think the column is here.

See the bottom of the plate, right? I see the little piece of trim here from this column. I'm sorry that it's not very big, but you can see it on this side. It's like here. And if you look at the back, all right, if you look at the back, see the door probably is not very high. This is probably not very high. So if it's only going to help to have your sign be smaller because it can make it higher from the from the grade from the from the sidewalk. Right now, it looks to me like it mean maybe that sign was there and it's probably a little little low, but it's only going to help for the street.

Okay. Um, okay. So, I have one other question, too. Are you doing anything with those goose neck lamps? You keeping them? Are you rearranging to focus more on the sign? Yeah, I'm working with the landlord to figure out the situation. Okay. I would put in the letter, lighting cannot be changed. If I I think this board would be open, amendable to other lighting sources maybe, but um if you do change it, you have to come back to the board. Meaning the lights if you put if you take away the gooack but want to put a different type of lighting source up there. You have to come back here. What if the one on the right is broken? Because I if you're removing just replace it same thing. Yeah. Oh yes. Replacing kind. Yep.

Okay. No, I think we'll keep it like that. Um and you will power the landlord is going to power wash the paint allegedly. Okay. I'll put I don't know if anyone knows any of the landlords in this or Nancy whatever her name is. Very difficult. She doesn't want to do anything for me, nor does her manager, but I am working on it. I will put that in the letter because it's an important aspect of of updating this site. Um, okay. All these details will be in your letter to go talked about like the um the depth of your wall signs, pin mounting them, the front and the back, putting um some recessing or adding a layer to your blade sign, shrinking. Are you doing a letter or do certificate?

I can do a letter. What other changes are there? The pin mounted, the edge, the the size of the blade. I don't know. It's up to you. If you want to do it in a letter and then and then we say ask to be reflected in the building permit, that's one way to do it. Okay. Just makes it a little Let her and I will steal in a second after let us think about what's the easiest way to get this done for you. Right. Because I'm I'm so close to getting the CO. Okay. I don't want it to delay that if you understand. I don't think you'll enjoy your co because that's the guy you're talking to anyways. But um but I'm not going to delay your co but to your point to be you know Mike Vinny he doesn't really like to answer his cell phone.

We got to stay on point. I got to keep So but um you can talk to your call that you know or planning telling him later about that but we will get you later. You need to get us to sign guy though because in order this to be approved we need new PDFs of that. So, um, we need a little bit more specification on how it's going to be made. So, the quicker you can get, if you can get us that in the next couple days, we can get you a letter and you can move. Okay. Okay. Sound sound cool. If you have questions, call her. He's very collaborative. Okay. All right. Do you have any questions? Are you sure before you leave? I don't. I mean, I'm kind of sad that I can't keep the sign the same size, but that's a major issue. I The blade sign. Yeah. I need um

devastated. It's the same length. We're just asking to reduce the height. Okay. So, you just get less white space in the back and make your logo the peach pop. I just like the light. But if that's the consensus, yes, more. Yes. Yes. Yeah. You decide that you don't like the mockup, they go back. That's a contestant. Consensus. Okay. Thanks, sir. Okay, good luck, Sarah. Uh, next up we've got ARB 30 2025. This is for signature cycles at 116 Heights. 116 Heights Road.

All right. I have a few a couple of new drawings. Yeah. Based on our call yesterday. See that USB port there? I'll just introduce myself. Um, yes. Could you please that'd be great? Sure. My name is Diana Horus. I'm with Studio Architecture.

Sorry. Tell me your last name. Diana Hores Jua Reudio. We're the applicant. And then uh sorry, do you do you get a last name spelling there? Y and you're with um I'm a studio architecture the applicant, but we're representing signature sites. They're going to be moving into Who is Raphael? There's a USB. Yeah. Thank you. You got it. Don't worry. You can uh press Sorry, there's a couple that um

couple there probably drawing 94 or additional context for 916. Which one you want? 916. We can do that one. This one? Yeah. And then the awning rendering is new as well. Okay. So this is it um in Darian Commons next to um it's next to Harvey the Van Huan or Parker in that same got it. So we have a couple of additional photos as well. Not easy to manipulate here.

Yeah. All right. I'm going to give up a little bit. You can go to the original PDFs that we have on the easier on the application.

So, um are you guys all familiar with this? Can we keep going? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So, as part of the the proposed um move in, we're doing some exterior changes. So, including um five a couple of signs. So, we have one wall sign, a blade sign, and then five um window decal signs. And then some architectural elements as well. Two new white uh light sponsors on either side of the entry.

Mhm. And then um two new fabric awnings on top of the storefront bays and repaint of the existing facade material which I think is like an anodized metal um in some sort of light bronze color. It kind of changes during the day because of how the sun hits it. So sometimes it looks a little bit green, sometimes it looks darker, but we want to paint it black to keep it uniform throughout the day.

So I I have I have some comments. I I actually like the vibe of um the composition of all the elements um and the addition of the awnings and the sconces that you're adding on either side of the sort of center piece. The one question I have for this group is we went through an extensive review of all the different storefront options for the complex. Okay. And we agreed to I think three major kind of opportunities and black wasn't one of them.

Yeah. Uh, so I feel that I don't think you need to paint the storefront black. I think the anodized bronze isn't a bad um mix to what you're proposing. Okay. But that's just my that's a that's a personal opinion. Um, but I I'm I think you start painting anodized aluminum, you're getting into a world of um hurt in terms of operations. Yeah, we need to Yeah. So, I would I if I was the landlord, I don't know if I'd be up for that.

We we have talked with um Andress, which is he's a property manager there and was federal and he's been open to that change, but it of course depends on you guys. Well, we did go through an extensive pick of how that looks. So, Got it. Um maybe that could be phase two if it comes in and we think like there could be something more there, but I think that's Let's for now. I think you should knock that off the off the uh ballot and let's just talk about the signs and the awnings actually are a big stretch. Um so, but don't you but don't you remember they were showing us like okay a variety of ways that each tenant could sort of accessorize and the awnings was I'm very excited for the awnings.

I like the awnings. It'll break up the monotony. I agree. I like the clients. Yeah, I think the client was pushing for it just cuz they wanted to stand out a little bit from everybody else there. No, it's good. They don't have a lot of colors to play with. Yellow, but what we're going to do is Yeah. So, yeah. So, this one is the main wall sign that will be um just individual letters, halo lit letters pin mounted onto the existing facade. Do you guys okay with the established 1999? I kind of like the composition of it. I think it balances it out. Yeah. Late 1900s. It will be historic one day.

And then the blade sign is um like a metal frame with cutout inserts, a white insert so we can see the the pop of the color. other signs. So on a good question, we haven't supported any lit blade signs in this in this facility. Oh, these are blade. Are those lit? It says a turn away. Sorry, I missed it. You mean we missed it? So I don't think nothing's No, let's let's keep it consistent. Complex. And then the halo light for the main sign. Uh everything in that complex is supposed to be 3,000. And I know there's a couple that aren't, but um I think Federal Realy had gone to 30,000 and

as a standard as a standard color there. Yep.

All right. And the claim. So I think you're the one I talked to, right? Yeah. So if you go to that PDF that you had open that has the percentages. I think it's a folder. I have a hard time with that PDF. So I I think go down to that folder at the bottom of your bay. That middle folder. Click on that and then which one was it? The window decals. Window decals. That's so small. I can't you can't see anything. We can zoom in. You can open up the window. Adobe. So if you click out of bookmark drawing. What? Exit. Exit out of bookmarks. Exit here. Yes. Yep.

Yep. And then bottom right corner is it plus minus bottom right side is a magnifier. There you go. Remember I'm seeing it in an angle. Yeah. Yes, I know it's perspective. It's tough. Okay. All right. So, we got we're going to bring it to close to maybe a little bit more so you can see the percentages. And here's the sponsor that I didn't see actually. So, you wanted to look at the percentages for the Oh, yeah. So, did you calculate? Yeah. So if you'd scroll up a little bit at the top portion or scroll down I guess down up you want bigger. You have a number somewhere. Is that what you're trying to Yeah. At the very top of the PDF?

The very top of the PDF. Yes. So you can move that up. I see. I see. Yes. 18.9%. So So the whole that whole panel is 63.14 ft. Um the two round decals, each of them is 1.44 square ft and then the the bigger one in the middle is 9.1 ft. So in total, those window decals are 18.9% um of that of that total opening. Of the total opening, correct? They're what% 19.9. That's higher than we normally get, but I I feel like I applaud you for actually taking the time to do the calculation. I feel like we should get it just for being the first applicant to actually give us proper numbers.

And she did it right because she actually went around the letter. There's a rule. We make the special exception to let you get the 18.9%. Because of because of the work you did, it looks good. It looks good. Um and then the other the other bays are really minimal compared to that one. Um the middle ones are the the door panels. Yeah. So the one on the left is 5.8% and then the one on the right is 6.1%. Um so that contains the hourly information and then the one on the right has um just signature cycles as a decal. Okay. And then the the right is again the signature cycles and the round.

But these are just on the windows. You can still see through the glass. Correct. Yeah. It's all see-through. We just have the the white vinyl on it. Okay. Right. Uh, does anybody need to see a sample of the light itself? Did you guys see that in your file? I saw the file. Okay. Yeah. So, it's all down light. It's bronze. Bronze. Correct. Okay. Um, I think that's Is that everything? Yeah, I think so. What does this mean? This is the element, right? Oh, it's just scribble scribble. It's like placement text. Oh, okay. It's It's actually not placement. I think it's real. Um. Oh yeah. Yeah. What if it's products? Oh, they protect.

Yeah. Special. Got it. I guess it's sort of scrabble to us, but Okay. Um. All right. So, you'll get a favorable report with the changes of a couple exceptions, which is um no paying the storefront black. That's a huge one. And no lighting the um no lighting the blade sign. Yeah. And then also making sure that the uh main sign hail at 3,000. 3,000. Okay. Tell me. That sound good? Yep. Amazing. Awning and black is approved. Awning and black is approved. The size of the sign remains great. The content you're good. All right. Thank you D. We appreciate your time. Can you make sure to if you see FA out there, jewelers, can you let them know that they're offering too?

Cloud. All right. Moving on. We got ARB 31 2025. This is for Cloud 10 car wash at 54 Boston Post Road. Um, gentlemen, if you guys are going to be speaking, you you I suggested coming up, getting on camera, saying your name, and you could pop over. You could stand on the side if you'd like to do that. You don't have to be on camera, but introduce yourself. Pass these out. I didn't know what you had technically here. I couldn't remember.

Yeah. Do you want to grab and Hi, I'm Brendan Johnson. I'm the founder. Um, Lauren's going to be doing most of the talking. Your name? Sorry. Sure. It's Brendan Johnson. Thank you. Sure. Um, Lauren's going to be doing most of the talking. Um, but I just wanted to let you know the last meeting we had the banner, uh, the construction banner. The one that you guys all liked is exactly what was uploaded. Okay.

That we didn't upload it. And that was the formality, technical formality you asked for. So that's up there. I'll turn it over to you. Okay. Um Lauren, after you introduce yourself, have you been here the whole time? Lauren, have you followed this project the whole time? Correct. I haven't. You haven't? You know what? Uh Brendan, could you give a quick review for the board of the of like in one minute the steps you taken to get here? Just a fresh reminder of when you saw us, what was approved, and then other boards you saw. Sorry, Lori. Yeah. So, we have been here a couple times. The sign, we received a a variance for the building sign, which is in here, which they wanted us to show to you.

Verance with ZBA, which was last July, 11 month July. July July. Um, this is you asked us to be a little creative with the monument sign. The left is our the left two are our creative. The right is 100% compliant. Correct. I'll let you get out of this. But then prior to that though we approved the building's been this is just a sign review right the building has been approved approved this is a compilation yes so this is the monument sign um which the zoning board said uh

no deviation so we checked every box um the building signage they grant us the variance on they wanted to us to show to you and then the construction banner um is as I said exactly what you approve Merly last time we just formally submitted it. Okay, perfect. Thank you. That's great. Thank you. Thanks.

Hi, my name is Lauren Rosen and I own Artifacts. We're in Bloomfield, Connecticut. We've been in business for 43 years and uh I started when I was younger than my daughter EJ. YouTube. Uh, I'm here on behalf of Cloud 10 Smart Wash located at 54 Boston Post Road in Darian. And I want to thank Kirby for that Phillips screwdriver because I was having an out-of- body experience.

My guys just built the samples and uh, one of the plugs fell inside. So, thank you. Uh, I was here a couple of years ago. I represented uh Roots Ocean Prime. Yeah, that's

and I thank you for the approval and thanks for seeing me tonight. Uh if you look at page one of our presentation, we're showing three alternate designs for a double-sided illuminated ground sign. This sign is installed perpendicular to the post road. Uh each one of these signs depending on which one we do will be uh manufactured out of fabricated uh aluminum. In this case we weld.125 aluminum which is 8 in plate uh to a 0063 return which is 1/16th of an inch. It has an internal welded frame and an upright that's integral to the piece which will be steel. that fits inside of a sleeve. Uh the letters in this case are what are called pushth through letters and it's a stencil cut face. So with a machine we take the logo, we cut the letters out of the opaque metal which is going to be painted with an epoxy that's a low luster finish and we insert acrylic into the cutouts. Um, in this particular instance, we were asked to design a pedestal and I think I gave Michael about 18 or 19 designs and then he came to our office and reviewed all the designs. Um, I won't tell you which one I like the most, but uh, I I definitely have a favorite and it it kind of looks like the building. Lauren, can we go to the location where this sign is?

This is one of the largest monument signs we've ever seen at standing a total of six feet. I think six feet is the max, isn't it? Yeah. So, we're within regulation and then we're within 20 square ft, which is the regulation. So, it really isn't that a monument sign for for a monument sign. Yeah, we followed the books. Why? But if it's a 5 foot diameter, that be 25 square feet. Well, if you're not figuring the area of a circle inside area 20 square ft, maximum height 6 feet one side of the property cuz the size by special.

Yeah, cuz the base um is that included six feet of wall. Yeah. So that's so yeah, we get mine and signs like this all the time. I'm not to say that it's it's a it's wrong. It's it's like a no in my mind, but it just seems really large. Designs are cool. I haven't got like that aside. That's something I want. That's why I want to see where where it's located on the map if it's further. Yeah. So if you're if you wait a little bit, I have it indicated. Okay.

Um it's it's organized and a profile accordingly. Um the finishes again are an automotive epoxy. We put in a flattening agent. The blue for the circular sign is derived from Cloud 10's branding and the metallic pettor for the base will match the building. The letters again are uh dimensional/2 in acrylic. The lighting we use for this is 5,000 Kelvin and uh the LEDs are approximately 480 lumens per square foot before they're diffused. After diffusion, it's about 50% of that. Uh we brought samples and EJ is going to uh demonstrate the samples. Uh oh, hello. last time I looked at her over here. Uh so there's two uh methods of uh illumination that I'd like to point out for this monument sign. One is a push through with a face and this is in ratio. That's the size of a letter that you'll see. So it gives you some idea of uh the size. Um this is a push through and with that push through um it's completely translucent. This is an edge lit. And we had a flashlight around somewhere, didn't we? We did.

Little tight quarters here, but if uh you know, I spoke with Herby a little bit. Mhm. And I wasn't quite sure after reading the regulations what was allowed, if it was a push through in its entirety or if it should have an opaque face. If it has an opaque face, we're going to light it um also from the base from the ground uh to give it a little more sense because otherwise proposing to double light it if it's Yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's commonly done if you have an edge lit. Not darian, my friend. It's a little jazzy,

but keep going. Well, anyway, that's the look. Let's let Can we turn off the lights? It's by the way, it's this blue. It's very It's pesy blue. All right, we got you. You good? Y trying to give a good representation. Appreciate it. We don't want you to be surprised. Uh on page two. Page two. Uh where are we? Here. Okay.

Okay. Hang on just one second. Bear with me. Okay. So, on page two and page three, we demonstrate those lighting techniques. So this would be the lighting technique showing the uh method on the right with the opaque face but outside accent lighting. If we go to page four um we give complete dimensioning of the actual sign and it shows our pedestal style as being the uh slab. So there is a rule in Darian that signs should be on a pedestal if they're a ground sign. This is a little bit of a creative interpretation of a pedestal. It ties in with the architecture. Uh page five.

I got to keep us moving quicker, man. I'm so sorry. Where are we at? Let's project forward. Page five, we show a can of levered version with a single pole. An idea that uh we entertained just to show you. On page six, we show a traditional pedestal. Okay. Okay. So page seven, now you're seeing the location and we're on the post road and we're looking eastward. Mhm. So it's on the left side of the drive. So can we finish out the monument sign?

Oh, I'm sorry. That's true, but it's not true. So you Yeah. So it's not in the online in the latest. Okay. So, as far as the building sign, no, can we finish? Let's finish the monument sign. Can we talk about the location while we're on the packet? Yeah, we know the packet. You guys can upload a new file on the thing. Okay, that's fine. So, you you don't have So, we only have in our packet. Yeah, I thought I like 15 ft off. It's 14 ft in the packet. I don't know any specs.

Yeah. Yeah. Give you exact specs for how far off the road it is. 14 ft. 14 ft. Yeah. So, if you turn to our page 10 and sorry if it's out of sequence with this. That's okay. No, it's very well prepared. Okay. Um, so can we comment about this about the monument sign before we move on to the wall sign? I like this. I like this option. I like that option. Goes through the building. Why the pedestal didn't exactly mimic the shape of the building? It should have. Well, it's from this distance.

Yeah, it should have. It's supposed to be a little whimsical, too. Like the ball, the circle's about to roll down the building. And what kind of What about the letters? The C or is this the actual size of the C? Uh yeah. So uh we were asked to represent the letters on the building. The ZVA allowed a halo style letter. This is actually half scale. Now you have to remember the buildings uh a few 100 180 ft is it away from the monuments. Just the monuments. Oh, sorry. These are an actual scale. That's actual size. I'm sorry. The smaller one. That's the smaller one.

The blue. Yeah. So the seed represents the sea and cloud. The letters aren't big. Okay. It's the it's the circle that's big, but that's not it's their logo, but it's not illuminated. Yeah. No, I'm just drawing attention. It's one It'll be the largest mon sign we've ever purchased. So I just want everyone to be aware of that. But the thing is if it the rags, right? Well, but also if you made the letter smaller, would you be able to read it? I don't think so. Not from the distance. It's It's a couple. Do I need you to stand up there? Can I talk here? Pop up.

Sorry. It's a little over two pieces of context. As you know, when we started in the beginning, we did everything we could to keep the trees. The trees are a pretty big detriment to seeing the building. That's why we got the uh variance for the the building sign. We've got over 500 ft of frontage. Um, it's it's if you look at the rent, we didn't put the trees in it. I think one of our biggest concerns is the trees are going to we moved it from one side to the other cuz the trees are blocking everything. Okay. So, I just All right. That's a good negotiation. You kept trees for Is that what you're saying? Big trees.

That's a good negotiating point. So, it's okay. If you give me a per trees down, I will. 3 foot in diameter. I was sure is there any like pruning plan for the trees? Like I'm thinking like at the glass house and and you can actually prune the trees up a certain distance so you could get sight lines through past the trunk. Trunks are three foot wide and they're like quite high. Just a threeft trunk. That's just the trunk. Four or five of them. I had a plan where I went to the site today to make sure they're preserved correctly the trees and there's quite a few trees like in the world. Yes. I'm worried and they're beautiful trees.

So I'm worried I I understand your point. I actually don't think people are going to see much of the sign because if you're driving down the road the trees are going to they're all lined up and they're enormous as you get to it. But to answer your question, it took me three months to finally get this uh to reach someone at the DOT to give us permission to take It's their trees. They Is the circle used anywhere else? Yes. Everywhere. The actual physical circle. Nowhere. Uh that's our It's used at every one of our locations. Is that what you mean? Or no.

No. The cloud 10 I get like I'm looking at the building and cloud 10 is like obviously pin mounted but is it usually that logo exist in a circle? Yes. every at every location everything's in a circle. We did a little bit things differently with the building to kind of make it we told uh Bruce um somewhere between the Apple store and the Getty Museum. That's what we were going for.

So there's no circle every place else there's circles everywhere in our literature website. To put it in a different context, [Music] [Applause] one of my best friends owns a company called Simonise and we've built a few hundred car wash signs. This is by far the smallest car wash sign we've ever built. I got to tell you one more time. Welcome to Darian. Second time this I've been here a bunch of times. Connecticut. We should do this all day long. I'm a Connecticut guy. Um, okay. So, it sounds like though the board is seems to be okay with the size, right? Did you notice the size?

So, I I mean, what's the alternative if you make the letter if you made the circle smaller, right? The height down. The only thing I was thinking is was whether somehow you you got the the base is the circle and then the bubbles that come up and they're actually kind of like cut out. That's why I asked it's a redesign of the logo, right? But that's why I asked the circle. We need consistency. That's a good question. Okay. I'm I'm wondering like smartwatch is that like can that font be slightly smaller because it's actually extending is it totally in line with cloud 10 like the way they're stacked. It's in line. Yeah. Good point.

So it's uh it doesn't really it's not like a major, you know, under it doesn't really bother me. just proportionally. I was wondering if slightly smaller. It's It's pretty small for a drive by. Okay. Yeah. Is that the official name of the business? Cloud 10 smartwatch. Yes. Trademarked.

And in the Cloud 10 always I mean the only other thing I can think of is just to make the make it seem smaller. But I think the answer is no. Is that's to flip the coloring where the blue's on the base and the silver's on the then I understand it doesn't pop. But at the same time then it's going to blend even more. I guess my my only other question as well as with the halos that you mentioned ground lighting as well. So is that is that allowed to have two forms of lighting? Our preference was for the um the push through on the left. Yeah. No, but that's I think that's according to regulations. Yeah. I I wasn't sure that. Okay.

And I I would defer to her on that one. The direct light is not allowed. So the halo the the side and halo is is okay but the question about is secondary lighting allowed as well. Yeah, I can't think of Yeah, that will specifically address if you have one form of illumination there's another it would take away from you know simultaneously what yeah it's too much yeah but that does feel like too much speed lit on the building what's what's the street lighting situation here it's not address you've got uh Chipotle signs glaring across the street at them

but at 3 kil Yeah, that was this was 5,000 count but the location but it's also users on it. Yeah. So the board like what we're chatting about that I'll bring it together is the sample on the right halo lit. We don't do any face lit but I really appreciate you bringing that mockup. It's very considerate of you and we're not going to support a second lighting source to that. Just the halo lit not a ground lighting in addition to that. Well, that's why we brought everything. Really appreciate it. It's a fantastic presentation. This is great.

Um, so I think we got the monument done, right, guys? Just the only changes is no additional ground. We're picking that. We're picking the first option one halo lit, no ground light. Mr. Humphrey, just throw this out. There's an idea with changing the color of the edge kind of size of the monuments. I don't Yeah. I get I get it's like one mass rolling down a ramp. It would probably help make it seem not quite as big, but I don't I mean it's scary. It's a heavy contrast white to blue. So I wonder if you're accentuating the size. It could be metal.

Yeah. Yeah. Is the pedestal metal? Yes. It's 8 in aluminum plate that's welded around a structure. So the edging would be metal. If you kicked it, you'd break your foot. Okay.

I think it would be I think it would be nice. So if the edging matches the base. Yeah. Yeah. So would you like that as a revision? Doing the aluminum edging on the circle. the edge. The edge color match the base instead. I don't think you No, no. I like the circle. I don't want to tie into the face. I want to be two different because then it looks like it's parallel. Otherwise, it looks like it's attached. My preference is for simplicity. This way.

That's a conclusion I've come to at 69 years old. Simple is better. Am I the first to come up?

Um, so do we want to look at the building because uh let's quickly review the building. So this is the the one that was EVA was approved. So working for design sizes are exactly as approved by the ZBA on July 8th, 2025. We were asked to show it on the building with exact sizing. Yep. Yep. That's good. That's good. By the way, I never mind. Actually, could you just remind me what the exterior of the building is? It's uh a composite material that's called alpolic. It's like a lucab. Oh, yeah.

And it's 4 mm thick. It's pretty solid. It has a nice modern look to it. Uh letters during the day. You can see it's a pin mounted letter. It's a rain screen. It's a rain screen. So the water is behind the panels. Is that how it's joint? I would defer it to you folks. Is it built as a as a box or is it does it have a the water from the roof and then when it falls on the facade just behind the I think it was rain. I think it's bomb usually is rain. I think rain means detach from the building. It's not it's not that's above my pay grade. You know what you're saying? There's kind of an elongated

scrastru. There you go. It's a rain. Pin mounted letters. Halo lit. Yes, they're halo lit. Um, we're using again 5,000 Kelvin. It's kind of in the nature of the business. Again, aluminum fabrication. It has a polycarbonate back. The LEDs face inside the letter that's painted a reflective white. So you get a good general halo that's not spotty. It's painted white inside. Okay. And outside. Yeah. It's unslope. It's not square with the right. It's on the same can as the building. Okay. That's cool.

Okay. I like it. And this uh gives you a full description how it's built. If you have any questions, just ask. Lauren's a great presentation. We really appreciate you guys time. We know you guys have had much success with you. They had one little minor modification on the lights. Oh, yeah. I wanted to talk about one one last thing if I you saw the uh the piece for the um fence the screening. Yeah, fence screening. I have an example of the material you want to see. Where is it? Oh, right here. Yeah. I think it's ground. So, what's nice about this? It's a mesh and I'll pass it around. M. It lets air flow through.

Yeah, you can pass it around. There you go. Good evening. I'm Matthew P, landscape architect. Uh, just have monuments right over here. We had one uh request to revise the site light poles. Uh the original light pole was kind of upside down triangle here. Um the cost of that light fixture kind of put it like out of reach. It's like it's crazy. I mean 175,000 difference. It's nuts.

I'm worried too about like with that cost. I think the picture, you know, in a year or two. Who knows if they're going to go with it. Um, so we're just proposing to kind of match kind of the styles all around um across the street just the downward uh you know box like this 12 ft high. Um you know we the photo of the light pole is exactly the same location. So we're just trying to get it to kind of you know blend in and kind of you know not make it a feature this site. What what color are the poles? I was thinking black, you know, would it be gray maybe to match? Uh, they have aluminum. They have natural.

Yeah, that would be fine. I think they're I think they have a silver color and that's what we were going to go for. It matches the poles on the building. How many are there? Um, they're exactly the same amount, same locations. Um, yeah. I don't remember. It's been a while since I last [Music]

came about 13 or so. 14, but it's matte silver, not a shiny matte flat silver. That I don't know. But we can probably get like a sample of that. What do you prefer? Yeah, when we approve it, we see a sample of that. We could do that administrative approval of that. That's a big change. Yeah. But we just wanted to bring it to your attention that and and we went around to all the neighbors and said, "What do they have?" And copied and pasted it. But do you want that? That seems different. I feel like that's that's a reason an argument against that. It I would agree with you except no one's going to see. We're not open when people are We don't want anybody. It's all locked up when they're on. Oh, it's just for security.

Totally for security. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That's a photo plan, too. Yeah. Kelvin on there as well. Yeah. 3,000. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, then in the winter time when it's dark at 4:30, you're not open. No, you wouldn't have those lights on. Yeah. Okay. That's correct. Whenever 12t. So until you close a picture, [Applause] we were in a little bit of sticker shock as well.

Yeah, these I just have photos. You probably knowing pictures. [Music] Yes, I go too. Okay. So, are we okay with the lights? Yes. Is this good?

Mr. Kate, Rebecca, you guys formally approve the mail. Yep. So, you have favor board across the board. We'll get you a letter officially, but you guys can move forward and I'll put those details in there. What? We pick option one. We picked the halo red light. No ground sign. I think that was the only [Music] Okay. Thank you. Fantastic. I think we're all done with submission. So, thank you. Thank you all very

All right. Next up, we've got ARB number 33, 2025. This is for FA Jewelry at 870 Boston Post Road. Um, in the meantime, we got to go. Yeah. Leave the door. Yeah, we're going to keep the door open because the windows are started. It's pretty straightforward.

Good evening. I'm Kevin Well signs. Uh tonight we're just going to we're presenting just one single ball sign for uh uh fake fake jewelry. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sorry. I moved on.

Um 25136.

136. Um one, right? Yes. [Music] Scroll through the latest. All right. So, you want to see the context? Yeah. So, I think you Let's go to the Let's go to the beginning just to describe it.

Yeah. It's pretty straightforward. a sign board um with acrylic letters and a border around it. They just want to advertise on the building um right on Coast Road. Um the location is on the next page. Um I think I read your request on a couple different locations on the sign. I think you mentioned you'd like to see it on the frame of the windows. I think you should hit right above the window set the window. So there's a black trim that is kind of gone. Well, the far left option, right? That's frames. I kind of read it that you wanted Oh, in the Oh, the middle one. Middle one. Um, yeah. So, most comfortable. Middle one. Scooch down a little bit. Yeah.

4 in. Yeah. Have it sit right on the glass. Yep. Right. So, again, it's as wide as the window. Mhm. That's a drop shadow. Yeah, it may may have not translated in the if this if this line was actually meeting the top of the black. I think that's what you're talking about, right? If the bottom of the panel was at the top of that, that's correct. You want to bring it down? Bring it down. I think it's one way down. The sign panel should meet the trim. Oh, okay. Yeah. She'll take um

you like the size as wide as the windows. Big enough to handle it. It's pretty straightforward. Just um does pick Can you Dar can you show the last one so we can see the full her pretty, right? She restored here. Okay. Yeah. Yep. Okay. So, I have one request of her though. If we're allowing this, it is an additional sign. I guess if we're doing this, um, she needs to remove that cling out of the window. And that should be a feature window now. Like the center window.

The center window. If we're going to put a sign over that everyone's going to look into, it should have I'd be curious what's behind it. But having a a poster over those windows, it needs to be taken down here. It's probably not a problem. I don't know what's behind it. It looks Yeah, I'm not sure myself. Okay. Really should make it a display box. She should put a display box. Could she put a display box illuminated? Like I don't know. Do you recommend that to her? What is What does David Harley Jews do? I don't think they illuminate nighttime. I don't think so.

I don't think we usually take a product out during the day. So you can also make the ones translucent box so that you can actually the light comes in. Oh, cool. Okay. So, it's option two in the middle. Get a full report. Um, but remove the posters and I'll put a request in our letter if she can put a display box back there because what she did on the other side looks really great. She's got eye for design. She'll probably know how to do that. Okay. Okay. Anything else? All right. Did she paint the windows in the middle like with black? Yes. Painting the

I think it's acrylic. We asked I think she couldn't paint them the volume that left there. I think they're vinyl. Vinyl. Thank you. I totally vile or aluminum or something. They're white in the Google image like the street. They're still white. No, that's an older image. The same. Well, she painted all black. I remember when she her proposal was to paint the frames black ne it not that window the other door she painted them all black but I think she could have paint on the left I think was vinyl so she could paint it that's why so it looks weird but

are all the others black and those windows t if she wants maybe like a vinyl like with black straight vinyl on it. If you really want to black it look amazing. I think it'd make it look more cohesive. Yeah, it looks like two different things. Pretty simple. Just a mix of both. I recommend you like that idea. Yeah. What's on the side of the door? The main door. They highlighted something on the side pieces from the other one. I'm not sure. They um

keep going. No, no. To the main door. The dark dark brown door. I think it's a display case on the right side. No, no. On the door right there. See? No, no, no. On the door. Main door. Main door on the side pieces. The brown. What is on it? Yeah. What are those? I looked by the day and I It's weird. I don't know what that is. I think we may we may be able to see it in the older presentation. You think those are sconces maybe? No, they're not. They're not. It's something in the It's It's a design element, but I don't know what it is. They're not lights. They're not lights. It's like a carved the wood carved like um weird.

I think it's part of the um the door, the original architect of the door. Not much more information. Yeah, those white things. Okay. Yeah, I think that's part of the doors. I think it's not it's not some part of the door. It's like a little design. I mean, no one, but no one ever thought that those windows should have awnings. It just feels like that the columns are too narrow because it's under a the awnings should serve a function. It's under a It's just like those columns are too narrow for the actual facade. I agree.

Right. So like whole building, right? So, it's like, how do you how do you get the building to like architecturally look better? Well, that's pretty. All right, favor report. I'll get two letters, right? But but um with those conditions, I'll write some stuff into it for her. All right. Let her know that that letter's coming. All right. Um do we have Oh, next up we've got Kevin Kane again. We got Airb number 34 2025. This is for Fred a stair dance 53 Old Kings Highway North. Right. Kevin, is the building owner? Is he is he by chance here with you? No.

Okay. I asked for an approval as well. That can happen. You asked for another I I asked for like a letter of approval or because I think May or you may have asked for make sure that they're okay with the sign before we move forward. All right. I will just off. This is Yeah, this is across from like the ice. Okay, back behind the end.

So, I I I'll jump forward. I think the handicap signs, they're they're illegal there. Those should be removed. Those should be the two spaces to the right and left should be made officially handic handicapped. And that opens up signage for the actual building and the and all the tenants sign should be put on that building almost where the handicap sign is. That was my thought. Yeah. Not to put it where not to put it where it is because you're going to get into this cacophony of people putting signs up on this building. It's already a very nice building and I think you should start busying it with signs up there. They should stay in the front. Like that's what business complexes do, right? They put signs on the entrance. But it's confusing because the handicap signs are there and they were those are probably illegal handicap spaces.

They take the space. Yeah, they're not they're not correct. I mean the island and all that were just not designed correctly and all these are signed are being painted when they said you need two handicap spaces. One is bigger than the other. Yeah. Yeah. They have to be one and two sign with an aisle in the middle and then and then this walkway on the other side. Handicap wise, this guy needs to move over there with a three foot, actually it's four foot minimum in between. Yeah. So, the design of the handicap is really kind of to be revisited, but unfortunately that's not Yeah. You're never responsible for

it makes a good point. I mean, you organize how you do all the tenant signage on either side of the entry. Yeah. It's untouched. I mean there's never been there's no holes in that brick. So get the perfect um clean right upstairs or downstairs maximum. Good question. Really that makes it look like it's upstairs. Really truthfully it should be if we're going to do that it should be a sign with like right that sign wouldn't fit there. You know, it didn't have to be a normal tenant sign horizontal tenant sign

almost like a directory sign right with the I like the logo. It's beautiful sign actually. So you think talk to the building owner take it from there get theory what's approved and then take it take it back to you guys back but super supportive of the idea of the sign that the sign is there and and and what that they proposed. It's a lovely the sign he did create is because there's no other there's the tenants and I'm not sure what else is who in that building but it's it's a pretty busy building. That's what Rebecca was saying like that we need to get for the landlord to understand those tenants and if they're this might start a wash and everyone wanting their signage. So we should probably get organized about that.

Okay. Just how many people they could actually expect, right? So come back with like a a building sign proposal. Okay. All right. Wait. Hey, can you can you go back to that building? 13. I think No, I think it's to the right. 137.

Just open the tap to the right. I mean it just like the whole building looks like like it's from something we should update like the building looks like like whether it be just something to the doors or whatever just the whole thing needs a little bit refresh. Yeah. All right.

It could be cool entries there. All right. So, we'll come back. All right. We'll take a look. Okay. That's it. Thank you, Kevin, for your time. Uh, next up, Airb 37 2025. This is for Tremble Gym at 264 Heights Road. That's um just a heads up after that, we've got um Oh, yeah. Next, 800 Boston Road. Good. Thank you. Hi committee. I'm Xavier Flores. I'm with FT Minecraft. I'm the owner from on behalf of my client Trumble.

Your client is Trumble? Yes. What's your company? FG Sraft. Okay. Company. Uh

you can go to the sign proposal. We'll walk through the story there. You scroll up a little bit. You can go to what the current site. We'll start here. This is currently the site and the structure. This is what it looks like. It's right here in Palm Motors Market. Uh to the right you see already some signs there including the post office. The next form the next document. The next what document

next document you know it's like a bit of a slow operation here. Can we pull up the straight the flat elevation from the road design drawings? Is that the one the one we asked you to give us the elevation from the road straight on? Yes. Yeah, this is just straight on, but it's Do you want to look at elevations? The one from the road is a helpful perspective so everyone can see the signs in relation to each other. It was I think that SC we're going to keep it open

and we're going to play. [Applause] It was it was an additional probably. Yeah. Let me go. Thank you. Okay. Zoom out.

Just already at 1%. It's just a super. Just type in one. Just type in D, you type in 1% or go to%.

There you go. [Music] 1% return. Enter. That's what I did. 25. Can you just see if you can the negative or scroll out? your mouth. Reopen it. I'm going to have to reopen it. But last I did that once and then we open the same thing before. If you go be happy with this. Yeah. Just don't I can. Yeah. But you miss this is pointless because you want to see in relation to

Sorry. If you go up to the very top right, there's a zoom for the actual screen. that zoom out your window browser window all the way to the very top right top top three dots keep there now you want to zoom there's a go down oh jeez minimum I want a pad I want to put full screen all the way to the right full screen no unzoom go all the way to the right where it has that that's actually a good idea you know what here we go let's just put this computer up Can you um Savior, can you set us up on on the on the screen and Harvey, you can pull up why don't you pull up the actual the drawing the specifications in the meantime so we can see that so you can turn. Thanks so much.

You set that down. Just set that so we can just see it so the whole board can get that perspective.

The sign. Yeah, I just think the lettering looks really the framing maybe. Can we pull up that the the um specifications completely? Let's build the screen. Dry, help him get in there. I sent him down this road. I don't know how to There you go. That's close. Okay, go on the bottom. Perfect. Can you just download the image and then open it up and you're right on the bottom. Just scroll to the right. Yeah, but I like to also close out of that. Okay, that's going to be helpful.

Let's go back to there. It's right there. If you open it up as a PDF there, then you should be able to see. Can you help him? Please help him. Appreciate it. Please Joe, help please. Someone stay hungry. Who's my guy? All I could do is walk around with this, I guess. Yeah, that's helpful to me.

Usually it Let's just go to the specs. Let's go to the specs because we've seen it here now on the screen. So, we're good. Let's see what happens. Wow.

All right. Can we close? Please close. Close. Let's go. Let's go to uh just this right back.

Do you want me to help you? No, but I just uh it's a bummer. Um, okay. So, I think let's keep looking. We don't need everybody because we've got enough vision. We've got we all reviewed on our own. I think um the actual sign itself it needs um the letters are looking are a little too large. Do you have the specs in front of you? How large those are?

So, and and tell us the what what they're black matter what tell us what the letters are exactly. Okay. So for specifications uh so this sign is not illuminated. Uh dimensions of the sign are approximately 9.6 ft in width and 1.9 ft in height resulting in a total sign area of 18.5. How tall is it? 1.2 ft. 1.9 ft. Okay. Say good job. Good job. Just as you were saying. Um, but what about the letter sizes? Do you have that in here?

I might have that in the main one. This is what we like around 1.7. Okay. Everything.

That's the specific height about 1.6. I think fabric hair in my mind looks right even though it's the same sizing because the font isn't as thick. So then you look at the post office and again it's the sizing but the font isn't so thick. I get this this is their logo. So we need to figure out a way in my mind it's not so much about the size because the size is the same size as the the the fabric here. But we need to figure out a way. The weight is more though.

We need to make it to dumb down the weight, which to me means like either make it on a gray background or give it that just like fabric had like it was outlined. This one isn't outlined like they could put that outline like they do at Fabric Care. There's like a border around black panel. Yeah, exactly. But if it's on a white background, this is is this gray background or a white background? It's a white. So like I think it's so punchy because it's such a thick lettering. So we need to somehow So this that font

see how fabric hair is so thin. It's not the size. It's the thickness of the letter. So, the fabric size doesn't below that. So, we could reduce the overall sign. Then the letters get smaller. Exactly. Right. Yes. So, reduce the actual size of the whole board. Yes. Or the size of the letters. So the whole board and the letters like the whole thing shredded 90%. So you have a border of the the building.

But there does need to be a border cuz I feel like it's supposed to be modern. It's supposed to be like that. They need to look at the like take account like maybe go and measure and see what fabric's letter size is based off the fact that they got that border right and reduce it down to somewhere more in that line. In this one though, he's covering the entire soft disr

and when you look at the size that they're proposing compared to the Palmer's sign, it just looks very heavy. Like too big. Yeah. Way too big. So rather than one to 11, are we looking at like a 2 in quarter? In which case we may hit one

then correspondingly though screen n it would be 94. So everything proportionally would do and you guys don't think it needs a border. No border to the sign on the whiteboard. Okay. No because it's like such a modern sign. It's just the border will be the back of the building. Okay. So, it's a it's a redo. You got to come back, but we might be able to do it administrative approval if um it's okay. Um if um if it's a straight enough forward uh PDF you send to us in that new PDF, can you please in your specifications outline the material of the letters um and the exact size of the letters and of the sign board as well? Yep.

Okay. All those details in there. Uh anything else I forgot guys? And then overall deduction reduction about 90%. You have to like the existing sign to the right. Yeah. Or leave that border. Yeah. Exactly. You got it. You can go measure it. Um so and then um send a PF to her and we'll decide we need to administrative approval. If we can't if it's too much of a departure, we might have to see you back here in um October. Okay. We'll try our best advant

and put an address on the door. Mr. saying if you there's an address on the door. But did you say you were going to make a border around it? Because I think you said no border. No border. No. No border. Yeah. Um and just to clarify, you're not proposing any additional lighting or any other window claims. Correct. Okay. A lot of gyms like to put stuff in the windows. You sure? Yes. Uh my client will want that. Uh I don't know if I put this now, but I want put it in now. Let's put that. Yeah. or you'll have to come back. I don't you don't want to waste your time. Yeah. If he's going to do it, put it in all together so we can approve it all at once. This is that window clings. Okay. Does that sound good? Yeah. So, we'll probably see you in October then. We'll just do it all in one month

with static clings and revised, right? Yeah. I thought you said that. If you're going to put stat if you're going to add in new signage, your client's going to add in window clings. We have to approve those. So, you're going to have to come back here anyways. Sorry. We'll make it painless. Send your stuff. Send it. um prior to her he and I will review it. We'll make sure everything's there so we can make sure it's one and done. One thing my client would like at least to sign prioritized is that an option to just do uh administrative approval for the sign and then come back in October for the window. Yeah, I think that's oh a temporary sign. No sign come back in October for

it depends what the PDF looks like. You put the PDF in and her and I can take a look at it. It's good enough to what we we talked about here on record. Then we can do admin approval. If it's not, if you have questions, we don't feel comfortable with it, then you have to come back. So, we have to just wait till we see the PDF. Okay. All right. So, make it a very good PDF. All right. Does that sound okay? Yes. All right. Awesome. Thank you so much for being here. All right. Next up, ARB number 28, 2025. This is 800 Boston Post Road. It's a mixeduse building. I believe this is where Burger Shakes and Fries is and one of our bar studios or bar studio. Barthod. Hi, how are you? Good. Welcome.

Thanks. Uh, I'm Mike Levy. I run a company called Gem Holdings. We are a real estate investment development company. This is one of our holdings. I live in Darianne and so which is why I'm here doing this. Uh, I did we just we would like to paint it white. I think that the property would benefit from it. Uh, we're in the process of likely retening the second floor. A tenant had requested it. I don't know whether we'll move forward with them or not, but I think it actually looks great and so I think it's a worthwhile investment. Um, you don't paint, you stain it.

Well, you you would you'll have a layer. There's three coats. I'm not a painter. It'll be done by a professional but yeah the paint will actually more got the samples that yeah it's a recode process to to get that that look but yes in theory it's not going to be as intense or is it I mean I think it's it looks really

um the challenge is the lighting and so it really depends you know on like the time of day that you take this picture with the exact same color it's going to look very um like that with the white sky behind it looks very white. If it was in the evening or next to the trees, it's not going to look nearly as white. It's the same white in all the pictures, but you'll get a very different. I think what Alice is trying to say is when you paint the brick, it doesn't turn out quite like so uniform. I was going to say, I know you have three colors proposed. Are you guys going to do samples of them? I we were probably going to do a sample on the side before we just commit the whole thing.

You know, like one of the colors was like paper white. that can sometimes read more like blue gray depending on the light. I think especially you've got red brick, so you're going to have like warm undertones. So, you're going to have to do some samples to see what it actually looks like. You don't want to paint this all and it's like, oh, it looks a little bluish. You know, that would like that. We went like that. Before I knew that I needed approval, my plan was to prime the one side, then make sure the coats are right, and then just and then move forward with it. So, we would do the same thing and hopefully if that requires an additional meeting or an email, we we would do that. But I certainly don't want to paint the entire building and have it come out and look to whitewash.

So, we need to come by and see those um examples. Yeah. Talk about I mean, I think white it's going to be even more obvious as a building. Like, I think it's really going to stand out. There's a reason why 1970s brick buildings are usually painted black. um they're trying to hide some of the decisions like doesn't white just brings every single window, every single lever, all the awnings, everything just pops even more. Um and I think, you know, I would be much more amendable to uh doing a color of like, you know, the complete angler, you know, beige.

Hope a dark green. I think white is I hear what you're saying. Like if you go to Westport and look at many of the other main streets with brick buildings like they're predominantly white. I mean and they look great. So I think her point is because of this particular architecture the Westport architecture is different in this. Yeah. Yeah. That's a very that's a valid point and I think that would get flushed out with us doing the sample on it. But um the tenants request was for the white and I do actually think it looks good. Um, and so I'm happy run making doing a sample like on the side of the building to make make sure that it does actually reflect what we're trying to accomplish. Um,

once you're painting a brick, it's very hard to Well, if we did the same, we'd have to power wash it off, didn't I just I think so. I I We also actually have we also actually have a dumpster area to the side. And so, it's actually it's a pretty easy place for us to do some samples. And you were not doing any awnings. It was just the paints of the brakes. That's kind of one of my questions. Yes, the we actually just had them powerwashed. Um the awnings I think look pretty nice and uh I think somebody mentioned the windows but those are P tech units and windows and the windows are actually totally sufficient and so we we we're not really looking at that today.

So I'm support I'm support at first I thought this was a great idea. I'm like oh this is white but over time white wears you see a lot of things you'll see AC you'll just see a lot of dirt on this like you can already see like it I don't Yeah I don't know. I think another color should be chosen. I don't I think this is lipstick. Just just to be clear though, it won't be another color. So like the if we don't do it as white, like it's really dissatisfied tenant. Like we're not just going to arbitrarily paint it another color cuz I actually think it looks nice the way it is. So there are like softer whites that we can choose, but like we wouldn't be accomplishing what they're looking for if we simply went to like a green or taupe or black.

What are they looking for? They love the white and and they they are in a white brick building in Westport right now and they love it and it and I also agree it looks nice. Can you provide the photo? The tenant the tenant is called um what is it called? Uh they're I think they're in 1200 Post Road u right behind where Barrel is and they're called um I'm blanking on their name. They're um childcare uh company but they're right behind the in fact I think if you looked at Barrel it would be very similar. Kraton Barrel is a beautifully designed architectural building here. I'd say

what's the new building that's I was just asking that's going the apartment building that's going next to it to create barrel or to Oh, the one behind this. Yeah. It's under construction, right? Yeah. I'm not sure. I haven't seen a rendering. So this building red brick it's just to be clear I'm not trying I'm not trying to copy that building. I'm just pointing out they are in a 70s white brick building. But but you've got relief of also um brick that's not painted. So it's not monolithic. This is very monolithic where this has a little bit of some depth to it.

Yeah. And and I think and that's what I think what certainly I'm reacting to is it's just a lot of white. Sure. So either you tone it down so it's not as bright or you look at perhaps articulating articulating maybe pilasters you know at the entry by the um bay the bay or inset bays just do something to give it a little bit of um relief cuz yeah um that's what girl building actually sure I mean we I that's my point that's my point yeah it has it they're in the building behind it but yes the building behind it is but this is what pointing to and saying they

No, they're not. You asked for what they were. And I was just pointing out that there are actually lots of 70s white buildings that they it actually works really nicely and like and if I ask 20 people, I'm going to get 20 different answers. And I've had lots of people look at this and say, "We love it. We'd love this building to be white." That's pretty much been consistent with the people I've been talking to. So, you know, what about like a white wash that's not as like stark? I don't think it will give them [Music] Anyway, I'm willing to make the investment to do it, but um but like it it would have to be some form of white, otherwise we'll probably leave it the way it is. They wouldn't consider a soft gray or soft taupe or something that kind of disappeared.

I haven't asked um I could ask about light gray. They may be that might be something they're interested in. Um and I I'm that might look nice as well. Um, but you know, initially they were pretty focused on, you know, you know, a white and so, um, there are lots of whites. Yeah, that's white that toward the gray. Sure. But if we did it without an accent color, you're going to still have that same Well, that that kind of gets into like the articulation. You could do like a one white, you know, with a certain amount of gray in it for part of the facade and then where the reliefs are that's has a different, you know, percentage of gray or something, you know, just to to give it some some depth.

Sure. Um, but that takes some color studies. It'll take, you know, really kind of digging into to what that facade is going to look like. Exactly. Yeah. So, taking this and really playing around and looking at we sent a bunch of other images that we had um prepared in the last couple days. I don't know if you guys sent some more yesterday. They were great. They were great, you know. Sorry, I didn't have a chance. Yeah. No, it's okay. It came yesterday. So, we found their building here. By the way, we're just we're studying. They do have multiple colors of brick painted white and taupe. the one behind the building. The building behind the building.

Um, that's where the I don't think that's actually the color anymore. It's white. There's like a concrete platform on the base. So, Mike, I have an idea so we can keep this moving. Um, can you come back with as presented? We have enough information to give an approval. So, can you come back with some other renderings that show different shades of white that show in the relief areas? So, and then also bring samples of different a different rainbow of your

Sure. So, would you you want me to try So, over by like we have a side dumpster with some bricks. So, that it's actually a pretty easy area for us to like actually do some mockups. Would that be easier if we did that with a few different colors and then just you can come out and take a look at it or can you guys get a conjunction with some red? Yeah, we do the renderings as well, but I but I like I also think the the actual samples on the brick are going to be a better but also that's an isolated piece that you're looking at here especially for you know if there's you know the advice is to look at some some options in terms of you know playing with different tones. Yeah,

I think the rendering would answer some of those questions. It could be that a single tone route is okay, but until you actually see what those options are. Yeah. I also think it would be reasonable to, you know, kind of take what some of the board is saying about considering two different colors to accentuate, you know, some of the vertical elements of the building. Um, and if this is, you know, very much client driven, see what they feel about that.

Yeah, I mean, I I like it. So, like I wouldn't do it if I didn't think it look was like positive. But, um, but I I also I don't I mean I think a light gray would look great. That was actually my initial color. So, if there's interested in something like that, it might satisfy some of what you guys are kind of talking about. So, my next steps if you were to come back for painting, we we need to see renderings. So, I show the gray light gray. Show those reliefs in here. Then we can get to a place. I give multiple options so we can have so we're not just edge set on one. And then we can go after that. We can go on site and make a special ARB visit on site. Check out. Sure. So, if I go with the gray though, it's still going to be the same single tone.

Well, I think you could do I think we all talking about different colors like different. It could be like a gray with a darker gray, a white with a darker white, but you want more than one color. You want at least two colors. I don't think that's it could be a shade cuz there's not cuz when you look at the building, there's not really a good place for another actually in the middle. There there's a natural building inset that like a well once once you photoshopped it, it's very easy. You have an architect that's you're working with. Rap and drop. Yeah, we can um we can have them do some mockups and um see if it makes sense. And it could be that we circle back and say one color, but

sure. Okay. Um we will look at it. But to be clear, is it like doesn't have to necessarily be two colors? It could be like a white within like a slightly shade darker of that same white. Oh, okay. So, I thought you were saying multiple shades. No. No. So, it could be like So, it's like Yeah, it could be like a two shades darker of that same kind of white. I'm all for that. I thought you were asking for Oh, not like it's not like a white with a dark gray or it's it's more subtle. 20% gray, 25% gray. Like that's okay. So, something a little bit more gray. But I um would I don't know if it's necessarily great. No, I think we're getting carried away. They're great. That's one idea. I think we're trying to throw ideas so you don't feel like you're in a box. Sure. Okay. Um try things.

Try come with some multiple things. We'll play with it cuz we want you guys to come and waste your time and be like, "Okay, without seeing if we have some ideas, we can collaborate and figure out what we like best, what you guys like best, and what color." We'll play with it. I'm getting some free advice out of you as opposed to painting it twice. So, it's fine. It sounds like a good idea. And then also it would be great to whatever is there bring physical samples the panel like you can get larger ones of what you're bringing so we can actually see those versus because the rendering is sometimes different. It's very tough to see. Um I mean I don't know that I'm going to be able to bring in No, you know you can bring you can bring in like like paper. It's just

Yeah. I mean I have it but it's not I do have the actual color paints on here but um but you want to see it actually on Rick. No. Well like what do you have? Well, the just the actual just the actual colors. So, like from you know, you can get larger pieces of those. Yeah. I was surprised for that request, but we can do something larger. I mean, the problem is like if you want to do it the right way, get a 12 by 12. If you want to do it the right way, too, like you're going to want to see take the red brick, paint it, put three coats on it, and then actually looks like as opposed to this 100%. But if you know what you're going for, if we have the final look that we're going for, but they do make large poster boards. Sure.

Because I'm afraid if you as as you start painting on the brick, it's going to be miserable. We wouldn't do it. We would do it on the side where it's where we could literally paint over. Yeah. But um Okay, cool. Um first company uh so my you won't see my company it's called Gem Holdings uh because it's kept in an LLC. So who's present who as you on behalf of So I own Gem Holdings. So this is one of our holdings. Um and um so can I say Gem Holdings or Yeah, you put it as Gem Holdings. Yeah.

Um Yep. JDM. Yep. Cool. Thank you guys. We really appreciate you guys getting us all those renderings. It really give good perspective. Really helpful. So, do you guys, by the way, need to see all sides of the building for the renderings next time. So, we just as long as you get to see the relief or the different elevations. Sound good? Yep. We'll take one side. Okay. Okay. Thank you guys. All right. Next up, guys, we've got um the gas station, 805 Boston Foster Post Road. This is ARB number 29 2025.

Yeah, it's just a lot of basketball come to our house. Hi guys. Hello. Hi.

My name is Michael Casease. I'm an attorney for the applicant this evening. Uh we're here in support of application PL25132. Uh which concerns property at the corner of the Boston Post Road in Sedwick. Uh it's the north side of the post road and west side of Sedwick. I'm sure you're all familiar with the gas station that exists there. Now, uh to be kind, it's tired. Uh bottom line is that the operator of that station, the contract with that operator terminated and it was decided by the owner of the property that this was the opportune time not only to give it a facelift but to create a new building and a new uh architecturally pleasing uh frontage onto the post road. Um, the existing building was built in the 1950s. Uh, and it exists actually in two parts. There's a service station with a storage facility in the back. Um the bottom line is that the two buildings equal 3,750 square ft whereas we're replacing both buildings with one smaller building that is 2800 square ft providing parking in the front will be 16 spaces 10 in front. This is the existing facility. The new facility will have 10 spaces in front of the building. The building will be set back further. There'll be three pumps on the site. Uh and the architectural drawings that were submitted originally

were very well done, but with the help of staff, we think they've been made even better. Uh they've uh added some decorative looking [Music] hiding at the bottom.

There we go. Sorry. So the building is moved further to the north. Gives more space in the front. There'll be 10 spaces up against the building that will be there. There'll be an additional six spaces at the pump stations themselves. Uh the layout in terms of ingress and egress off of both Sedick and the post road is proposed to remain exactly the same. Uh we've already received ZBA approval uh for this site plan on July 21st of this year. Uh so we've reduced it to one building. The square footage is reduced. The coverage of the site is reduced from 20.2% to 14.8%. And it's if we could have the rendering of of the new proposal. Um the new building and the entire site in terms of its landscaping etc. will be aesthetically much more pleasing. It'll be a much more safe uh site for ingress and egress and for functioning around the pumps uh and for mobility on the site. Uh with me tonight uh Nadine Khaled who is in charge of the construction of the site uh as well as Mark Puchek uh who represents the owners. And with that brief presentation, I'll throw it open to questions. I think uh Nadim has has tried to be responsive to input he's had from staff and members of of the board. Uh and we believe this is a great improvement uh over what's there now.

All right. Yeah. Let's look at let's talk about the materials and the actual architecture of the building. uh as you can see it uh we are proposing as we discussed the previously we have all the brick it's like a red pattern it's going to we have a crowd will be like color crowd so that way the brake and the crowd can be have like a a look good contrast uh the pillars on that front canopy is going to be allac it's going to be is going to be like a trim with a trim board by 1x4 or 1x6 then we have a gooneck light on the front just to just to have some elevation shown uh some of that Harvey and somebody recommended like a like a couple Morana front uh that way as well as uh they requested to have some windows all the way around because it look like a four elevation. So we we created the window also s

you know the windows the uh the glazing is much improve much improvement to do with the glazing but it's very strong right what what is right now and what you are looking and by the time I know you drive by you would love the decision you made to have this thing improved the biggest problem this existing building is nonconforming ADA non-conforming which is the main concept main concern we are doing all the money plus as well as the way where the operation was going and the car sale the tenant was little bit out of control. So honor decide to take it back and knock it down and that you know uh that before we have a commission and those folks are agreed on board

and uh if you have a request and feel free some comments I have I I wouldn't mind seeing other types of windows. I don't know if what's here is might be fine but I'd love to see other options and also as they relate to the ones on top. I would actually lose the dormers myself. I think the simplicity of the hip roof would be better represented without those different scale is the other option, right? You could have the rers, but they would have to be smaller and Yeah. Well, the proportions is something a little off. Yep. That doesn't Okay.

The dormers give it I like the dormers a lot. They give a lot more character, but the scale the proportions are something's like the windows are off. The windows are off. And are they sketch? They're proportionally smaller so that they fit the Yeah, they fit the dormer proportion. Those windows aren't the right proportion. And and even the storefront windows, it's almost like they're they come up to the roof line. They need a little bit of trim. Yeah, they need bring them down as smooth. We have a low profile. Then a few comments came in and they requested to raise. Well, I'm not saying bring them down too much, but there like smack up against so

we can we can down like it's a little it's trying to be contemporary here, but the rest of the building's not. So, it's we got a mix vocabulary going on. So, more a more traditional window. Well, just where I mean you it's I actually the framing isn't so bad. I just think that there should be an eyebrow of just right above maybe a foot. Yeah, exactly. Like a trim board. Just like a trim board. Exactly. Like usually 12 in. We we can lower like a 68 in. And that's 6 8 to 12 in. Definitely. That's no problem.

That that line is supposed to line up with the trim. There is a piece of trim there which is hard to read. Yeah, I'm going to be like exactly the way this one is. We can bring it all the way around. So, I don't I don't I don't love the non. I don't like the trim. I wish it was all one color. Change there's the board the siding is going to be white. It's not going to be that dark, but it should be all be white. All like right now it sort of looks to me I was just saying it sort of looks like a wall like Yeah. It's just like anywhere. It looks like that. And I feel like

the brick on the bottom and then white the rest of the way in the bathroom. But you've got like nontrad like you know what we always talk about with Darian. It's like you need to look at the everything around us. And then you've got these these not across the street. No, I know. But you got these windows and these dormers and like it especially the windows. windows are killing me like you know like there we don't have windows necessarily quite like that and like the the mullions and like there like they're just I you're throwing a like a fairly modern window into like a fairly traditional traditional

I the feedback you're getting is this is you know for better or worse entrance to really the only historic historic area of downtown those buildings um you know that we have such uh signage struggles over um are some of the oldest buildings uh or retail buildings in there. Um, and so because of that, I think taking a little bit of a look at the the gas stations, the Dunkin Donuts on the merit as as 1920s, what would have been built on a m major through wear um with cars is probably a little bit aesthetic, which will probably I will tie into my um next comment is um and I I don't know um if anybody will agree, this is just me. I I actually really like the awnings over the gas pumps on the Merit. Um specifically the Greenwich and the New ones.

Um I I do think if you had that awning as well, it just elevates the whole building wherever you land up, especially even they even managed to like nail the color schemes. So um I do think it'll feel a little bit lighter um and it'll feel a little bit more architecturally relevant to the town. Interesting. My sauce is like more brick, more traditional. I think the pitch of the roof is too low. I feel like it needs to get a little bit taller. Maybe do like a 10 pitch. I think it I can't have glasses. I can't see. What does that say? They're progressive, so watch out. Okay. It's a six pitch. Yeah. Yeah.

So, I think I think this is the problem is it's going to make a very tall it's going to make a pretty tall building because it is pretty deep. So, from the side it's going to look a little messy. Your brain your brain though behind it goes up. I know there's so flat so it does kind of go up. Another thing about that go feedback. I mean, I also feel like, and I know this is sounds really it's trivial, but like I'm not a big fan of

like there's it's just it doesn't have that like it doesn't have the characterist of a of like there's no planters. There's no there's no like like it's straight to the front of the building and I get that, but like and there's a sidewalk, but like it's just it's a residential place and you're putting a commercial building in there pedestrian,

right? This is this is too commercial for a residential area. I mean, even when you look at Starbucks, which is across the street, like it's a they've done a really nice job. It's a big building. It's got like a little courtyard. It's like especially if this is mostly having a teenager like they're they're going to come here and they're going to hang out like in that parking lot. Maybe give it a little breathing room and like Yeah. It's not growing there. To the front. I mean, put some planters and put some Yeah, the portico is not drawn in this sight plan. So, I don't know if this is a line that goes back or there's something that comes forward here at the center. That's what David Ry point. Oh, I'm getting credit for that. Just

I think it wants to look like an older building that's always been tucked back there and you walk by and you're like, "Oh, I didn't realize that was there." Yeah. You know, and I think if you're going to make it successful in town and get people on board with a convenience store, it needs to look really charming. Yes. I think there's a few architectural details that he does this. There's a couple architectural details that I don't think you captured in the rendering, but like even just the overhang of the port over the columns like if you had an overhang, that's going to help. If you add the crown molding that I drew there at the top of the columns, that's going to help. Okay. Um there should be a trim board.

Yeah. A trim board at the top of the storefront regardless architecture services and you don't have to correct the materials. So the issue here because of the scope of the work and the type of the type of building even though this is where we started from. I mean, this is this was a little steepening roof for for Jones the mural. This was a slightly steeper roof and that kind of created a really massive we had there were some red lines in between that we didn't put in there, but so the maybe the the building became a little bit of a

notary style, but kind of like a little little somewhat inspired that way. So it made it large overhang including at the entrance. The dormers are different and the drawings that I provided for advice for council there's only four four lights in my rendering and the proportion of the dormer was matching the slope the slope of the roof is matching.

Yeah. Yeah. So even that these are things that we can we can we can go over with the recommendations that they have and look at look at certain things. But I think the main thing that we just heard is maybe in the in the site plan and the render there has to be some sort of buffer between the building and the parking lot. I mean a lot of a lot of gas station it's a little unfortunate the cars come and you've seen all these accidents of cars that don't realize they're backing up or going forward and crash into a gas station. It' be nice to have something that gives a at least a distance. We we have this uh you know that uh car stops like we can adjust it so that I think I think everybody's talking about this

definitely if you if you have this thing like the car won't reach up to the walkway so we have inspiration. What if it looked like a true old gas station and you had like these beautiful old windows and an entrance here and like you really captured something that wasn't a building but it was like or this one too. I mean, this is from the mayor, too. I mean, theoretically, it's just changing the window, which could be done. This is like a really cool like old like time, right? That's actually a cute idea.

Like you looked it and you like really like made it look historically awesome. What if we add some some I like art deco like the raw like I used to work around that like realistically it's um No, it's a company down south that actually does that. That that's their look. They have the square flat roof. But it doesn't mean you can't. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not saying not. You know, I it just depends on how do you want the roof or do you want a flat roof? You really made it like an old

Well, if you do if you treat it architecturally balance and you like you're not going to be I mean if it's authentic to that idea and it's and it's hearkens this old school. This is another I think I guess we're kind of looking for your inspiration for for the project to find something that's inspired that leads it. So here's another idea. I don't know if these these resonate with us. You got to find one that resonates. But see the detailing here, the materials, I think those are like the elements we're missing is like right. Yeah. This is the grit. Yeah. But I mean the archite

they get heavy here and they they differentiate it and the material there it's brick. The roof I think actually

Yeah. Okay. I think you guys are on a good track. I think you guys we're moving towards the right direction and what and from what we first saw. Um you have to remember too you guys are next to Darian's historic district. It's our only one in town. So I think there's like we're hyper sensitive to making sure the building integrates well into this into this area. Right. And her's point about like making or somebody said that too about the being a pedestrian. It is a pedestrian zone and putting a buffer in there between car David say I think we have to keep in mind we're also going to see the back of the building and the roof of the building as we come down be seeing the roof a lot if we have a flat roof it's going to be a flat roof probably so

okay and we're going to see it coming down yeah that's actually a very good point that just brings to my attention the equipment for AC unit where is that going to go it's going to be back of back of the building is going to be back of the building screen right it's going to be Right on the the on the concrete pad behind behind right here right here on the spot properly like a fancy nothing on the roof especially when you're next outside of just gas for sure. Yeah.

No, I agree with you 100%. You want to pull in customers into the sea store, not just gas customers. There's a lot of walking traffic down there. This is like prime location. You drive past this corner 10 times a day living in town. So, if it doesn't look great, people are going to be really Yeah, especially if you're

Just a note, the landscaping plan needs to reflect your plant schedule on there. Um, so I'm not sure if the architect did the plant schedule or but just make sure that those coincide. um because the the numbers are a little just a little off um on the arbor bitees and the boxwoods. Um I would also, you know, suggest if you want to be a little bit more creative, boxwoods can be a little high maintenance. Um, so there's other options to kind of look into, but just start to get the uh at minimum the the planting plan and the schedule um on the

something like a low profile evergreen.

I mean, there's there's a lot in town you'll see. And I'm I'm not against the boxwoods. just I just find that if you know you're not treating them regularly, you know, sometimes they're fine and then sometimes blight comes in. Um, if you're going with boxwood, go with the new gen. Uh, they're slightly more blight resistant and I haven't had any problems with them in the last few years. Um, but there's low grow sumac, there's northern bayberry, there's a lot of other options in there. It looks, you know, from your renderings that you were just going to mulch, but I do think it's an opportunity to make it feel a little bit cozier. um and not just have cedar bark mulch with a couple of boxwoods, you know, toss in. I think, you know, um boxwoods are expensive, so there's a lot for some instead of mulch, you want perhaps some stones or something.

Um I mean, I'm okay with mulch, but I I would just investigate, you know, more green cover. Um so then you don't have to spend as much money on maintenance and weeding. Definitely. Okay. I want to be the ugly regulator here. Yes. At the intersection. Yes. 30 feet back and 30 feet from that corner. The maximum is three foot traffic wise in terms of whatever plants there height and next everything I listed is like 20 in or below. Perfect. But it's for them to know that they can't think of bush and things grow like table whatever.

Definitely we are looking at least 2 and 1/2 ft you know from the walkway behind all the bushes. So anytime that rolls we have a third party who's going to be uh JC landscaping they are like I have a contact and they are like a weekly this is coming maintenance. Very good. Perfect. Thank you. When you are doing that landscape plan something think about I saw fencing on some of the direct renderings. If you're putting in new fencing or proposing that can you include that? Um, I feel like at our next meeting we might still be at the conceptual space and still be working at the details, but at some point we'll want to get into what that fencing is, what those samples are, the specifics of the landscape plan. What do you want? Let's put it that way. Excuse me. What do you want?

I think it depends on the kind the building you end up going with, right? If you like, you know, if you're going to probably more traditional building is the way to go. Take a look at the 2009 commercial design guidelines that are on the ARB web page. They have a lot of ideas just to get juices flowing and that stuff seems to fly through our meetings and committee meetings a little bit faster. Um so if you want to it's literally on the ARB page there's two different things. Um it's seven pages long. It's not very long. Um so people get that. What have we approved been surprised? Lots of different kinds of

I'm just curious where where actually is the fence specifically where will it go because can you just kind of outline what the fence is going to be for the right right now there is no fence if you want we can only fence we have this around this encroier for the dumpster here or going to be landscaping here there's no fence rendering a fence that's why it's I'm not saying you need to propose a fence but if you are proposing fences Let's be thoughtful about what those are, what those look like. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

I don't think you really need a fence between you and Starbucks. It makes it better. Think about the fencing around the What kind of products are going to be sold inside this place? You know, in the south they have those Cumberland Farms gas station that have pork and and things. So, if it's if it's a level of groceries and bread and whatnot or is it just going to be only auto and car products and it's going to be grocery items.

So, grocery item if you're doing a combin you may want to actually instead of fencing is tying it with people at Starbucks in the parking lot here so that you get you get traffic from one to the other. We don't want to fancy they want to actually do something that kind of encourages encourages the traffic and get people to go buy their milk while they're getting their coffee. Yeah. One other comment for your presentation for next round is um renderings from Sedwick Road coming from the west um and also you know from like from the Yeah, I'm trying coming down those two sides of the building the side of the fences and from behind three views are there.

What? I think there's like a two three different views I don't know. Scroll down. Scroll down. Oh uh nope can't scroll down. There's only one rendering on this one. You do rendering one. Rendering one this but shows the other way down this looks like. actually isn't there's quite a bit of rise in the center. So there there need to be a retaining wall that is there an existing retaining [Music]

well considering how far back it's being put. Yeah, that's I'm sure that's just all part of the study and the the site development that's needed here. Also, I think the site plan needs to be updated. It needs to show the portico. I think you need to show the equipment on the back. Uh see how visible that is. I mean, if it's just air heat pumps, those are pretty low profile. Um and retain. Yeah, I think I think that must be what that is there. Also, where the portigo was, it looks like the posts are right in the middle of the hash mark for the wheelchair access. So, how are they going to get around those posts? Yeah, I think that just needs to be updated. that that will address push that stuff. They need to bring the cards further back anyway.

Yeah, looks like those spaces go under port. At least just the way that's draw.

So you guys have two options. You can come back. We we can focus just on the concept again and really get the architectural details down and do that if you don't want to like go into great depths of all, you know, the different renderings, the landscape. Or if you have a concept you think is going to move through quickly, you could come back with a more detailed a full presentation that includes that like a landscape plan, lighting the right the topography and what a possible chain wall is like uh Mr. Riley was saying also a um a plan has a site equipment all four sides of the rendering right that because you will be visible from all four sides. So we'll have to study it from [Music]

the recept receptacles how those are going to be treated like I don't know how detailed you want to go in the next phase of this okay we'll discuss okay it might be then we could see we could work with her show where you guys are going we could see we want to make it as quick as possible for you guys and seamless um and yeah I have one more uh that I found it's off in North Salem to Fields Lane it's a gas station it's very similar ilar to what you guys have just uh brought in, but I think it the the proportions are are fit a little better for the same design.

There's just a little bit more detail that's more characteristic of the mobile on two fields more traditional traditional the proportions on the donors are more traditional. It just it it feels very similar to this. You know, I was on a touch screen. Oh, sorry. Sorry. All right. What do you guys think? We've been talking a lot.

We're open to all of the suggestions. I think we need to have an internal discussion as to whether we come back with a general plan or with the whole Yeah, we'll be in touch. Bring samples next time as well. If you have if you're proposing a brick, if you have an type of roof you're proposing, um I say save them now. Bring them next time. Yeah.

So, we have a brick like this is like a like a pride. It's going to be yellow that have like its own feature. So, everything get separated. If you want little dark color, we can suppose like one of this one and or we can have a little dark of this color. So just blend in. I think I think we need to see it in the context of the you know who knows you may come back and say no or I feel like since maybe it's one

that would be brick Our love there works with the architecture. I mean it's all about saying it's not you want to you want to give a right look and some new look of the day is going to be another two 300 years. So I don't want you got the second and third generation guitar looking same place. How do I I mean more stone there like we did a slide in Stanford people love it. I mean entire town like it came out amazing. So maybe we can throw some suggestion and share with you because that's like your theme. I think in that area for some odd reason.

So that's not realistic. We never go green. I think we always go stone is actually probably more that would be nice. We always do stone relief to the bright but but in still again going back to the architecture a little bit more character that meets the place of Darian. Okay. Maybe we can come up with a concept. Is this going to be an independent company or is it a part going to be part of our franchise? Standard Petroleum owns the site. We're going to operate ourselves.

We also operate seven other stores throughout Connecticut. We have two in Shelton and we have one in Monroe. We have up by the casino. This was leased out before, but we're going to operate it ourselves when we open. Great. Great. Okay. Appreciate it. Thank you guys so much for your presentation, your collaboration. Thank you for all the work that you guys did in a fairly short. That's just been pretty impressive. Yeah, we really appreciate it.

Okay, on to our last application of the night. It's ARV number 32, 2025. This is 90 Heights Roader J. [Music] [Music] Yeah. So then I know Sorry. We're looking at now Okay.

All right. Let's go. Madam Chairman. Hi. Thank you. You guys tired? All right. Doesn't want to open. The last thing on the list is a PowerPoint. Perfect. That's the one that says uploaded September 165. Yeah. That's pretty close. All right. Uh, your name's record. Just so you know, everybody there, I had to take two slides out. They had videos in it. Okay. And it was too big to upload. Okay. So, we'll do the videos somehow. Somehow I'll figure it out, but I Okay, John, you could do it. minutes.

Uh John Mccaro uh deran resident uh owner uh with uh our company B20 president partner. Uh we have our landscaping team here. Uh there's three people from urone although Mr. Cone can't be here. He's on vacation. Matt Pop, our engineer um and uh lands landscape architect, Bob Nassen, and uh we don't have a civil engineer here, but there's been a lot of civil engineering done on the property. What I wanted to talk about before I turn over the architects is essentially what how we were inspired, what we were thinking about, and how we go at this. We've been working on this site um technically for about two and a half months uh with the same team of people, the same team that developed a Heights Crossing. Um and um but reality, we've been asking to buy the property for 10 years. So once a year phone call to the seller, finally the seller sold. Um it's not a very big parcel. It's only about 1.3 acres and it had to fit between the two ma you know major projects and the transformation of uh their own heights. So when we think about how it's supposed to fit in and what it's supposed to be that takes a tremendous amount of time because you have to think about again the surrounding properties what you're trying to accomplish where it sits relative to a train station where it sits relative to the other properties. do you want to in, you know, create more pedestrian walkways? And I don't know if any of you have actually been to the heights in the mornings, forgetting about the train schedules, but all of a sudden you see people walking their dogs and their buggies and their and you know, people out jogging and their morning walks and stuff and all of a sudden overnight it became a neighborhood. And it it truly is a

neighborhood. It's it's very cool what's happened there in the past 3 years. So, um, Heights Crossing is open. uh people are still moving in to the apartments. Uh we learned a lot with the type of folks that are moving to to Darianne or whe they're just relocating in town or they're coming from New Canyon or some surrounding town. Um and um um it's it's been a you know generally speaking it's been a pretty good experience in terms of what we're seeing. a lot of high quality people I would tell you uh and a lot of young people by the way where they're skipping Stanford and they want to come to dairy presumably to one day buy a house if they can eventually get there and afford it. So um we um when we were thinking about how this fit um you know there's other examples we've used lots of different materials in town before so if you think about the neighborhood that we created in the road over by St. John's Church in St. loops on that strip of um uh the post road. We built three buildings. We nestled them in. There's like five churches in the area. They're all stone and stuckco and and red brick and whatever. And we basically try to create a cottagey look with some of the buildings and then try to feather it in next to the the fire department. We also were challenged with the old Durian theater where it was a 1925 building. We took new materials and matched it with old materials. 100-y old building and we were able to open up the back side of that building which was pretty blighted. Um, and then you know there was another property was a blight property. It was the old sewing room next to Nino's next to uh Rory's on that end of town and we did a industrial looking building. So we've used lots of different materials in the past is my point and we tried to create some variety and not everything to be exactly the same look which you're going to see. It's a different look from what we've done in the past, but we'll tell you why

it fits in a in a couple of minutes here. But so, um, the the the point is is that when you think about what's there today, we basically have chased a lot of blighted properties, you know, you know, Heights Crossing was blight. We almost, they almost got sanctioned for blight. Um, a lot of it is class C that we buy and basically rehab it or knock it down and rebuild it. This is borderline blight. Okay, you can look at it now. And now once the trees were down and some of the brick is off the building and you look at it from Heights Road and you look through it, you actually can see that there's like a big area back there. Okay. And if you think about what's at durian Commons, there's a lot of retail in the back that you don't see because of the front building. So between Liries to Mavalas, you can't really see back there, but there's a lot back there. The whole thing is back there. And you know, so um what we were thinking is that we had to think about how we put how we situated the site first of all, then we can talk about the cladding, but we're going to go through this in more detail. Matt's going to go through a landscape plan, but I wanted you to see this for a second.

On the slide. Well, if you can on the slide. Uh, that's Oops. Go down to We can go to this and then this. Yeah, that's what's there today. And it blocked your view of anything back there. And then, you know, if you think about Edertton, Edertton is kind of an, you know, it's it's in a connector street, but it was not a very important street. What you're trying to do is make the grid important and make every part of the grid important. So, what we did is obviously these two buildings come down and there was never anything on this side anyway. Uh, and we'll we'll get to that in a second, but if you can put up the slide this landscape plan.

Uh, keep going. Sure. Uh, you could probably use this one. That's the existing. Okay. So, rather than Oh, no. That's the old one. Um, keep going. Yeah. So, the thin Keep going. Is right up to that. Uh, it's this one.

Rather than take a building and put it straight like this, a big rectangular building. Now, you created a wall. We didn't want to create a wall. The other thing you you're working with is the elevation between here to there is 4ft difference. So, your sidewalk's going to follow the street, but the building has to stay level. And then the other thing that happens is you have the lower level of parking right here for Palmer's. And remember, we never all you're faced with at that lower level is that big wall with the weeds growing on it and stuff or the vines growing on it. And so that all comes down and now you're going to see parking on the lower level that the parking with this building. This building not taking up the whole site cuz it's in a L-shaped, but you're still getting the coverage and the square footage. And then your parking is in the back. So no parking in the front. There will be some parking here and loading very much what we did in the front of uh uh uh heights uh uh right where God is and whatnot. Those parallel parking places we found are really really cool. They really really work great. Particularly if people just want to get in and get out. Particular like garden catering opens up. People are going to pull up, get us whatever they get, sell by there and and jump back in their car and go. So, we're going to put some loading here and then this we're going to go into more detail, but this is going to stay parking. Now, remember this part has historically flooded. And you know, we met with with Kevin and his and his son, Kevin Larry, and his son Patrick, and they said literally one year ago, October, they got a foot of water in the store. So, um, this site will be elevated, this one right here, because right now it's at least 2 ft below road grade and it's going to be a park-like setting with parking in there. So, it was always parking, it's going to stay parking, and

that gives you the visual that you can from the Heights Road, you can see back, you can start to see that there's something else back there, right? And then this corner we tried to make important because Edgerton is just kind of a you know is a cut through street but now it actually is it creates more of a a visual where this corner becomes super important and you have this angular wall right there as an entrance. So the other thing we did is we eliminated the curb cuts on heights. Remember there was a big curb cut here, there was curb cuts here. We basically have all the curb cuts for the most part on Edgar uh both here and here and then we have one right here. So um the plan is to build mixed use retail on the ground floor two floors of apartments roughly 20 apartments 7030 70% two bedrooms uh 30% onebedrooms which is within the uh the code uh for or the zoning the um um trying to think what else I can tell you here the this site uh again we'll go in more detail but there's actually going to be benches in there, greenery, and Matt will take you through all of that. Matt Pot. So, um U again, what you're going to have here is access way to the lower level of Palmer's all the way to the staircase going up to the Palmer's grocery store. You also have the Palmer's architecture, which is pretty, you know, it's a grocery store. It's a pretty plain jane sort of architecture, which will be, you know, married in with this. But what this does again from a visual perspective is you're able to see around this way and you can see around this way. There's a crosswalk we're putting in right up here. It may already be there actually. It's right here actually. And you can come in down this

sidewalk from Darian Commons, cut through here and loop right into the post office and to the dry cleaners and up the steps into Palmer's. So it it'll create a shortcut for Durian Comments to go to the grocery store and the people that are in Heights Crossing to go from Heights Crossing to Walgreens or whatever. So again, remember this is um this is really the center of the donut. You've got these massive developments on one side and the other and this area in the middle really looks pretty bad, right? and you don't realize it until you actually think about taking it down and putting up something brand new. And what should that look like? So, um, we went with completely different architecture we've used in the past. Um, we're finding that the younger people that are moving here are fresh out of the city. They're looking for an experience. They like the fact that everything's walkable. Um, you know, they don't really have to move their cars during the week. they can take the train and you know pick up something for dinner in you know right in the neighborhood. So it's u we're getting that as a as our rental base in terms of people in apartments. I'm not sure what the experience is in durian counts, but that's what we're seeing at nights crossing. And then the other one is all the empty nesters and they're either in town or they're from New Cananan or they're from Norwalk or they're from Stanford, but they're somewhere in the general community and this is where they want to live. And the empty nesters generally are taking two-bedroom apartments. Um, and if it has an office, that's even better. Um, and so, uh, that's again some of the experience we're seeing there. Uh again, this these will be generally larger twobs, closer to I'd say 1,400 square feet on average. Uh so generally two bedrooms more like 1,200 ft². So these will be you know

maybe you know somewhere in that I'd say 13-,400. There may be one or two that are 1,500 and then the onebedrooms are going to be relatively small um probably less than 700 ft². Um, parking. We have about 84 parking places. If we want to enex it into a shared parking agreement, we can. We have 385 parking places throughout all of the complex between Heights Crossing and the Palmer's parking lot, which we own about 90% of, and then the the employee parking in the back. That's all part of a shared agreement, but we don't need it. And in addition, um, all the parking across the street at at the train station is available Friday nights to Monday mornings. It's also available after around 4:00 in the afternoon. Might be 3:30. I don't remember the exact time. And anybody can park there. It literally is directly across the street. So, um, the sidewalk will continue all the way down. It's kind of strange, but it has to stop here where Lies is because they're they have that, you know, uh vertical parking in front of their store and all of them have that. So that's not going away anytime soon. Um so the sidewalk kind of ends there. Um and um but you'll have good, you know, sidewalks all the way around. Um and a pretty high quality landscape plan as well, which my colleagues will take you through. any questions and then I'll invite up the architects and you can talk about materials and oh one last thing you're going to see a lot of glass and one of the reasons we didn't do colonial which we've done a lot of we've done a lot of it in town is because it you're going to end up with a monochromatic look that you're really not going to be happy with because everything's going to be New England New England New England and you in this area you can afford to maybe make a change

Um, I happen to agree with your comments about the gas station, by the way, too. But that needed to be a little more. Um, but anyway, so we The other thing about the glass is that it's reflective. So, it'll give you more of a light and airy feeling so that you actually feel safer and because you you have more visibility around the site. So, that's one of the things we were trying to create. Again, you got huge visibility here, huge visibility here, and pretty much a glass related building there with with some stonework that matches the stone that's on the corner of Heights Crossing. Thanks,

Will or Eric. As you go through the slides, it's going to flip them. So, you're getting two architects at the same time. Yeah. For one special Not as much stuff here, I promise. I'm architect Cable. This is my colleague Eric Murray. We're from the firm Seron Architects. Um here to show you try to not repeat too much of what was just said. It's a very tough act to follow. Um, as John said, the composition is formed of uh is organized into two distinct levels. Ground level retail with two upper floors of residential use. Um, the building maintains a strong street edge while incorporating covered entries, outdoor seating, and pedestrian friendly connections on all sides of the site. Uh the roof line is defined by a sloped standing seam metal roof which adds a little bit of character as well as providing a visual relief from all the horizontal proportions of the building. Um for materials and facade uh we're using a combination of natural stone a wood textured porcelain um which I have here um as well as expansive glazing similar to what can be found at Heights Crossing and Darian Commons. Uh the stone cladding creates a timeless and durable base rounding the building and tying it to the neighboring

developments. The horizontal wood texture brings brings warmth to the facade and complements the stone while also providing some contrast against the metal roof. The large windows and glass balconies on the upper floors are maximizing light. That was uh some input we got while doing um pipes crossing as a response to comments. Um it creates transparency and enhances the visual connection between interior and exterior. Um on the street level, we're using stone peers and storefront glazing in between to create rhythm and transparency for the retail. Um the canopies provide all weather protection and bench and landscape elements soften the urban edge. The upper levels feature glass from the balconies to create some depth in the facade, some pushing and pulling. Uh and the repetitive window modules provide some order and balance while subtle variation creates some relief to an otherwise

this is correct. Yes. Uh we t the surface parking behind and beneath the building to maintain an active street front corner. Um, and as John said, with the glass being highly reflective, we feel like it's creating a better uh visual connection to the neighboring developments. Um, as far as overall character, the building embodies a contemporary yet contextually sensitive approach. Uh, we tried to be very conscious of the height. Um, balancing stone, wood, and glass to achieve this design. So, what are you calling the character of the building? What's the um architecture? say modern. Modern.

Yeah. 2025 modern. I'm just curious. Yeah. It's more of a transitional modern to kind of bridge from the colonial that Darian has so much of. I I'm curious. Um, and I appreciate the idea of sort of moving away from, you know, what what's going on in Darian Commons and Hydro in terms of the architectural character,

but this does not seem to be something that I've seen in any version of downtown Darien or that even speaks to something that evokes something um, even modern. So, it'd be great to better understand why the metal sandy seam roof in that shape, why the stone that that particular stone in that way. I I actually the porcelain um materials actually pretty cool. I do it on my buildings too in much larger panels, but so using those materials are interesting, but I just the the rhythm and the character of the building doesn't evoke anything. I think it's I think it's contradicting itself. There's there's some elements that are really traditional and there's like the the stone

and and there's some elements like what we're saying the porcelain and the glass front balconies that are really modern and right now it's it's it's missing the mark on both fronts and the and the roof itself. I just don't get it. Yeah, that's my my strongest objection is is the roof. I think if you're going this modern, I think that that cap it it doesn't seem like it's an appropriate. We've had several versions of it where we've had it all clad in metal and it was way too contemporary. Um I'm wondering if we're going that way. I mean, to me, the mutton pattern of the windows is more traditional,

right? Where we're trying to tie in all of the but it but it's it's there's a lot going on. There's a lot too much going on. Yeah. Yeah. Pick a lane, right? What I mean, and modern may be interesting. Modern could be, but I also think that the pitch of the roof is not super. So, like you're using a really modern material on a man's roof. It's not the right. So like it's mixing it's mixing different styles and mixing different materials.

We've played around with different versions of that. Again, it's more that's what we're trying to figure out. We're trying to tie in that traditional area instead of going all the way in. Yeah. You got to go either one direction or another because this is Did you have any precedent imagery you were looking at? Yeah, that was I was going to or is this just Yeah. Yeah. What was your inspiration? That would actually help a lot if we saw some some contextual like some case studies or or something to to kind of justify where this is. I mean, I think that I think that the general idea of the corner and the the shape and everything really

we were trying to come out with something that was different, but kind of establish itself. I agree. John, I mean, I appreciate your background and how you're thinking about this entire area of our town. I mean, that's that's fantastic. Um, and and I hadn't thought about it previously where you're providing an opportunity to look, you know, into the other developments and not just trying to block it. I mean, you mentioned the glass, you know, is there an opportunity to, you know, really actually go what I would call more modern using that glass and,

you know, not having, in my opinion, the stone, especially on floors two and three, you know, create a more heavy massing and and have it be, you know, unique in style, but um, you know, fit better as this, you know, unique little building, you know, amongst more traditional building. Yeah. I mean, there's some really like it sort of looks like a finished like ' 60s things that started and then just ended. Well, long

I also think the other thing that I was going to say when we're looking thinking about the buildings and the light and the windows and things like that is what you're looking on because like they look really great now. But the fact of the matter is a lot of this is looking at train tracks and other buildings and like it looks really awesome when they're all open, but if you know you're going to move in here and half these windows are going to be closed, they're going to be different curtains and styles and things like that because they're not looking at anything else.

That's that's not that's not correct. Let me explain why. First of all, we always put shades in every one of our buildings, okay? And everybody has the same shades. And if they want to put draperies up, it's on the inside of the space and not on the outside. So, you don't see their shades or their draperies, rather. That's that's first. Secondly, the apartments that face the tracks were the most in demand.

Now, we built them differently. We put triple pane windows on those windows that face the train track so that they didn't hear the trains. We completely foamed insulation like you can't believe where we went a foot and a half in the ceilings on the other project and and in the walls it's at least 6 in of foam. You can't hear the trains. Okay, you can hear the horn but you can't hear the trains. You can't hear the cars from the I95. So people that like looking out the windows, they actually like seeing that's what they like seeing particular if they're city people that move to the country or the suburbs rather. So look, you know, the standing seam is going on the building at, you know, the City Bank building, which you guys approved. And um we thought that since it's going on that building, that's a different color standing seam, that's why we went with the standing seam here. We tried all kinds of materials. If you said, "Okay, well, let's do it in pick a material." Say you wanted to do it in in fate. Let's say you want to do a fake slate. That wouldn't fit at all. That looks good, but the shape of the

shape is just it's truncated. It's not Well, we could have gone shorter, which we still have. Or do you need a roof? Can you just go straight? We're We're putting a rooftop area up there cuz there is no rooftop in the area.

Also do a parapit. I mean, make it go straight up. You know, if you're going to, like I said, pick a lane, pick the modern um articulation, you would have sort of straight up. You could create a parapit that's high enough to create that rooftop experience, right? And maybe that parapit has, you know, breaks in it. Maybe there's, you know, openings in it. Again, take away the trying to layer in the um more traditional materials and character and make it modern and see what happens. Okay. Well, you know, the other thing is, you know, again, you could go with something traditional red brick. You've got plenty of red brick in that neighborhood. Okay.

But use the porcelain tile. Well, we are using the porcelain tile. We were trying to tie the stone with the stone in the in the neighboring project. Oh, for the base. That's great. But I'm in total agreement that I think the stone is is not it's it's not picking up the rhythm that the way the facade is. It's distracting from it. Let me let me clarify. So, what you're suggesting is that we go with the porcelain instead of the stone on the second and third floor. There's something else that is done. Um, I would say more the porcelain and whether like whether it's stone, maybe it's a different material or a panel like aluminum panel

again. We explored a lot of these avenues and one of the problems was it started to look like an office building. Kind of looks like an office building now. Yeah, it looks like an office building. It does. Yeah. Oh, just a quick comment. You mentioned triple pane windows. when I saw that in the materials, I was like, great, you know, some energy conscious design going on here. So, I was a little surprised that it's only on the one side. Um, you know, just from a sustainability standpoint, an energy use standpoint, if you could use it throughout, you know, it's it's just it's a savings, you know, it's a return on investment over the long term. Yeah.

Um, that's an aside. So, um, yeah, I think that I think kind of simplifying the materials on the second and third floors to give them a little bit more cohesiveness would be a good step.

And the porcelain tiles come in all different sizes. I mean, you could you could play with sort of the the modules, right, of of the porcelain tile. Maybe it's smaller in certain areas and larger format in others. Again, I I think Are you remodeling this particular building though? Like I I want to make sure you're you're more careful that are you making changes to this building or you're saying there's it's a larger it's a startup from the beginning like it needs to be a larger look. Well, I think I want to make sure we're not like trying to fix something box ourselves into something. Well, last time we did that, we have done that probably unsuccessfully tried that before.

Um I would consider like revisiting well I mean you know the massing is going to probably stay pretty close to what it is. Uh, but I would say the roof line, the roof shape, uh, the roof type, the side materials, in my opinion, the window, what was supposed to go on pattern. There's a small amenity space up there. And then we're trying to hide all of the equipment up there so you don't see it up and down the street when you're coming up there. I mean, I'm also just struggling with this one flat space all the way around.

I almost feel like it should be mult. I I do think that the town the town putting puts in significant resources into our every decade um like plan of construction and development and I think as we get further away from our 2016 one and closer to the one that is currently being taken up by town we have seen that less and less and less of those recommendations are honored. This whole development was considered with the golden plan in the 2016 development commercial construction and that considered massings, heights, pedestrian zones and so and the potential use case of those corners right so I think maybe just kind of looking at this looking at what the town has paid for already and had architectures design and like find the balance right like find kind of what um the town has considered, you know, before and also what what works economically for you in the space.

I'm also curious you for you guys to come back when you represent a um your inspiration like what's like like someone mentioned earlier coming in with um like president. You have present images like you know one of the things that actually the most successful part of federal realy next door is they had this uh jewel case you know that the Gregory's coffee their jewel it was inspired is deliberately like push modern lots of glazing the dark color and it's been like the most we looking back like my gosh we should have like we should have been more thoughtful of how we like treated the rest of the building and been more you know like more conscientious on that inspired look that was inspired and I think if we had some of ideas to draw from here.

I think that's where I'm going with the I wish there were additional buildings because of the Gregory's how it's like a separate building. Maybe there's a way to kind of create a community. Well, I think can this building be treated as the Gregory's of of this bad way to put it, but like this, you know, kind of stand alone. I agree that we shouldn't just try to go traditional because it aligns with everything else, right? But for me, you know, this just kind of is mixing styles. I spoke about it. I think kind of misses the market.

Sounds really the owner here, one of the owners. So, I think one of the things that you guys have said is not really necessarily talking about the massing of the property cuz that's that's not something that we're prepared to change at all. Um, in terms of the materials on the sides on on the second and third floor, the stone and such, I can certainly see us changing that along with the roof line. That's something that we've talked about internally. We random that we've looked at multiple different types of roof lines and such, but I don't think we're going to be making wholesale changes to this plan. So, I want to make sure that's clear to the board. What are you talking about wholesale changes? Are you talking about massing or you're saying I'm not massing not changing period?

What What's driving the massing? economics. Okay. And so we've done 10 projects in town. We have a pretty good track record of what we built. So it's not I'm not looking to change. I'm not questioning that. But there's articulation of the of the architectural skin that you know that's part of your massing. I didn't say that we don't change the sides, but I mean you guys have had some great recommendations which we may include in our final plan, but I don't we might not be coming back to this board. Let's be clear. We're we haven't committed to doing that. So you guys can, you know, we we want to hear what you guys have to say. We want to take your opinions in and we want to see if we want to come back. Got it.

I think successful in the past at really strong collaborations with I agree at the same time before us and I think you have a fantastic board, a very experienced board who has for years provided great recommendations that improve the developments in this town. And I think that we could come together and try to achieve, you know, uh, uh, implementing some of the recommendations we're making to give what I think this side of the table would consider, uh, a much more, I won't say more, but a a a better building as an end product.

I don't disagree with you. And as I said, we we're definitely going to take what you guys have been saying under advisement. It would possibly change parts of the plan. We're not going to make wholesale changes to the plan. We we've developed more in this town than anyone else has in the last six or seven years, including Genevese and the stuff going on. We've done 10 different projects in the last seven years. So Bob, correct me if I'm wrong, but this project has not been vetted by the planning and zoning commission yet. So the massing has actually not been approved by anyone yet. Correct. So in other words, the massing is really not set in stone as as of yet because it hasn't been approved. No, no. It's set in stone from this is what we're presenting to the board in terms of the planning and zoning board. But if the cooperation

if they say if they say no, this is we don't like this, then yes, well, obviously we're going to be going back to a drawing board. Okay. So, you're saying you're presenting this as a massing. You will be presenting the same massing to the planning and zoning correction with maybe some tweaks. There's definitely architectural tweaks that this board's already suggested tonight that I I see us changing. Perfect. Uh to answer your question, uh we are going on September 30th and October 7th. Mhm. We this project complies with the regulation except for two things. And uh so we're asking for two regulation amendments. Mhm.

That have to do with the fact that this is a smaller parcel than the other larger parcels in the Northern Heights business zone. One of them is uh there's in in the zone in order to get an additional floor level, you need a minimum 10,000 square ft of public plaza space. Well, that's just totally not practical here at all. Why? We've

setting aside 10 10,000 square ft in an acre and a third. Enormous. It's an enormous amount of of land to give up to public plaza space. we are including in this that that little park area that complies with the public plaza space regulation other than that minimum 10,000 square ft. So area wise that complies. Uh and the other is uh there's finished space that we would use for tenant amenity space like a fitness room and that sort of thing in the basement and the little vestibial area up on the top uh that you can see in this perspective. That light square there is is the active floor area of the uh rooftop amenity in the larger structure. Behind it is the elevator lobby and vestibule and the equipment room. The actual um other mechanicals are going elsewhere in the roof. That uh roof that uh there's been some discussion about is functioning as a parapit really uh to hide the mechanicals and or screen the mechanicals and screen the u public plaza area. and that sort of centrally located vestibial part of the structure. So, uh other than those two issues, this completely complies with the regulations. So the height of the roof is 30 foot to the uh

45 ft. The height is zone. The um the height 45 is if you go to the top of the parapit it's um jeez what do I do with that? Oh actually maximum height is 830 you go to the I have

yeah it's 45 ft provided that you have the exemption of the you have the plaza at 10,000 correct. So you're questioning the 10,000 plaza in the smaller plaza. Does that rule of increase allowance still applies because you're not providing the 10,000? Correct. The if you go to um specific increase to slide 30. I gave the I gave the board the regulation 746

Cook [Music] 30 I can't see the numbers first here your average grade 75 oh Okay. On the left side there. All right. So to the top of this vestibule, this is an equipment area. So the actual space is lighter color that is 49 ft and 9 in.

But the height to the actual flat roof that goes up, you know, let's move on from this. So I'm so sorry. This is something we should be discussing. I think at this point um architecturally speaking, it's much more than um to use Joe's word tweaks is not right. I think the board's looking at I think we've you know we've provided comments that you guys can you know consider or not. I would also say it sounds like you um explored other versions of the design and if you have things you've already done that you're able to share uh maybe you know that is something that you know we could comment on um at a future meeting. But I I think Yeah, I'm sorry.

No, I would say we've only talked about I have um we even talked about the site plan at large. I have just concerns I think we kind of hinted to about it just being just lots more parking parking parking parking. Um I'd love to hear ideas of how we're going to improve like uh the connectivity between sites other than just a sidewalk. I think that's pretty basic. There's much more things we could be doing to um invite crossover between the two. Um so I think that's something that needs to be investigated. um green space. Um I know there is some requirement. Bob, you know the details, but Matt's here. We'll just show you. You want to take a minute? We can take him into Yeah. Yeah. Can you go to um you want to show that sidewalk the connection?

Uh 33. Yeah. Actually, that's okay. There you go. Matt, why don't you just pop in here? Good evening. Matthew Pop, landscape architect, environmental landscape.

Um, I think we'll just I'll start with the streetscape and then we'll hit the uh the plaza area over there. Uh, you know, the the trees that we're using here, they're just a narrow grown red maple. that usually you try to have a white street tree where there's room, but since there's the building up here, I kind of kept with the Armstrong maple. Um, coming up the side street here, I tried to match the plants that were being used up in Federal. Uh, they have lots of birch trees with a tree underneath them, a little pro sumac, so we tried to match that. They also had some little oaks up there, so we tried to match those there. uh the kind of the plaza area here a wave like uh pattern that kind of goes through at the main sidewalk and then the wavelike pattern and then we kind of the focal point here. It's a circular area and we have we'll have benches around that. Um there'll be stepping stones through here to a lawn area

to a to a lawn area back through here. Um I'm thinking of some of the people have dogs know where they walk their dogs. This area over here is not I believe is not included in the uh the plaza area. So that's pretty big. The plaza is mainly just down through here. The idea was trying to to screen the parking from you know Heights Road. Um I think we we did that mainly these trees through here are a honey locus trying to get a larger canopy that light underneath it. Uh quick question. Yep. You said um or John said that you were raising the parking lot like two feet. Does it then step down at that plaza to the

from here up? I think it's about a twoft grade difference from the from the curb here to the curb there. So So go. So it's going to be like birmed up or I mean two feet is not a lot. No, it's not a lot. No. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you could pick up two feet, you know, just in the back, but yeah, it's not that that much.

Yeah. I I think too in the future if we wanted to stick a piece of art or right there, we could stick it right at the kind of the focal point of that when you like walk right there. Um lighting. Um we have the same light bulbs that we using down the the street. Um you know, they're scattered around the perimeter. Uh if there is right down through here, there's a small collard 24 in high that we're proposing along the walkway. free here. There's six spotting lights. Is there a dimensional reason that you didn't put any trees along between the asphalt of the post office parking and the asphalt of your parking? Like along here,

cuz right now it's all about this much space. So, well, but then what I'm saying is there can these parking spaces move in or is it too tight? And that's the reason you can't carve out some dirt and some planting to create some shade here. Yeah, possesses a lot of Yeah, there's way too much asphalt. I mean, it's nice that it's open. You don't have to put a fence, but you can you can put some trees. Yeah. I mean, I would also consider that people are going to walk across that area that's going to be, you know, the the talking about the connection. John, yeah, he a very poetic idea to connect through, but then it's not really expressed. It's not a pedestrian connection. parking lot.

Matt, there is a pedestrian connection that we put in right in front of the post office parking spaces. Those are parking. Yeah, that's not that doesn't invite somebody to walk. This is needs to be. So I I think so we can highlight that the the thought with the plaza and having a place a good thought, right? I think that is is

great. I think we have to consider how the parking is or where exactly it is to make sure that it's safe and it's welcoming because we've seen those plaza parks not work out uh in town in plenty of places. Um I am a little concerned on the north eastern part of the parking lot that is a view to all of federal realies generators. um it's the it's really ugly and we're highlighting that and so I would consider kind of playing with the parking lots and the layout there on how to block that view of federal realy and we have the same problem on the east side where that is yes that's where we're serving it um I would certainly

Matt just uh yeah I I would also remind you the reason why this all floods is there used to be a pond there and during and filled it in. Um, and so that's why we have the water issues. But in 1934, there's a very large pond where you where all the delies. So, um, so just, you know, consider that when you're picking your plants.

Um, and, uh, the other reminder is actually we did have a 20120 revision of the, uh, commercial design guidelines, and that was no tree pit within two trees of the other one. So um and also no columnar infesty giatic cultivars of the trees. So uh just means every other one like the tree guidelines that you have no pin oaks. You can't use pin but you look at all the pictures all the pictures in the book are pinnok. Yes. Well, I I think you know the pin oaks are fine as long as they're not I'm actually surprised the tree the resource doesn't like I think they're not a a sidewalk tree

because of the of the debris of other but you look at the pictures the typical picture the sample picture and they're all pit oaks. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. So, like I I'm not saying that we're married to this, right? The 2020 plan also has calorie pairs listed as an acceptable tree in town, which is invasive and you can't even buy it anymore. So, I'm not saying it's infallible or infallible, but I do think, you know, part of the reason why we want diversity in trees is what we've seen in the last 3 years happen to the beach tree, right? Like, we don't want all these trees to die in 10 years because something comes through. And while I'd like to believe that uh maples won't be part of that, we just don't know. So just, you know,

bounce them around a little with, you know, similar size trees, I don't love the idea of I mean, I I I want I have always advocated for kissing trees um in town where the Ever Source will allow me to. So, you know, the bigger canopies um are favored. It's better for energy, value, everything, people's happiness. I can give you a million studies on how much canopies help. So, um those are just my quick kind of back you away from like the details here in the larger picture

which I I think like going back to this idea of connectivity. I feel like um the plan here is less inspired as far as that go like to as Majinsky said it doesn't invite you to want to walk through and be part of that. like you've got like your thoughtful garden that area, but it's put off by a liquor store, you know, in an area where people won't necessarily want to I'm not sure if it will

Yeah. It's not a like that's not a destination because it it the way it's framed physically becomes a destination that pocket park, right? Because you can't keep walking through because there's a parking lot next to it. Is there an opportunity to maybe flip this right where the pocket park is on the north side becomes a screen to the federal backyard stuff. Um becomes a place of rest bit. There's a dog park and the parking is where it floods because because who cares, right? Um, and yeah,

you know, and then there's then and then perhaps that pocket park sort of starts to filter across the site to Palmer's, right? And I'm not saying build a park. I'm saying somehow create a walkable connection that people feel safe, a greenway that people feel safe walking because there's still cars driving through there. It's a parking lot

for development, right? You could look up at um not that you need to um look up at Nantucket there right across from there's a corner you can look at it there's a study they're really into right now about the fact that all of the um waste is going into the harbor and there's this whole push that the fact that all of the drain outlets go straight to the harbor and that was done in the turn of the century but in right on the corner where the white elephant and the harbor house is across the street. They've built this pocket park that is all about trying to help re um take the the rain collection and the rain water and actually reut it into the park. And it's a really cool study that they did, but it's it it actually might help your land versus hinder it.

There is going to be a cold tech system in parking loting and there will be in the parking lot. It's in the actual They choose in the in the we spent all this time in all these buildings collecting rain water for the 50 years storm and we store it on site but we never reuse it. It's the craziest thing.

It's like we we we collect it and let it go into the ground and it's just the craziest thing and it's throughout the state. I mean it's it's a you know it's it you know it's kind of a crazy thing. You say why wouldn't we save that? That's the best water you could have. Anyway, but the the thought I I hear your point about moving it to the back. What we were thinking at the time was there's no green necessarily on Heights Road. So, we were trying to create some green, you know, from if you're looking at it from, you know, the other side of the street and you see some green, it actually might break it up a little bit.

Well, I mean, that's not you, it doesn't preclude you from putting a couple of trees along Heights Road. I I'm just saying as a as a pedestrian or as somebody who's in the neighborhood, you you know, if you create a place that's more of a destination that's interesting, it's safe and connects me to another development and it's closer and it does double duty. It screens things.

There is a walkway, it's not showing on here, that the civil engineer put on the plan. I don't Matt, I don't think you picked it up, but it connects to the lower level of Palmer's right right to the that flushed out, John, cuz back there's a staircase that goes along tremble in the poking in the post office and should hopefully carry through that back parking lot. That's fact that we were going to brick it, you know, the walkways so that it designates a walkway through much. It should be in raised. These walkways should be raised when you go through them in the parking lot. Yeah.

Yeah. you know, but like it's almost it's almost essential to slow down traffic. People will drive through parking lots. And I also think there's like some um I'm sure Vainy will talk to you about this, but um opportunity to kind of fix some of these areas behind it. Like Palmer's is pretty dilapidated. That view is not a great one to see and the sidewalk's not great. I'm sure you're going to get tied into some of the stuff, but like there is opportunity there to create people wanting to as you expand into your other connected sites there. A nice paint job would be good. Paint job would be good there, too. Um,

all right. You guys have any other comments? I'm going to take a vote on a favorable or unfavorable report here so we're very clear. Any other comments you guys would like to give the B20 group, Mr. Maslin, Mr. Plop? All right. All those in favor of favorable report as is hands. All those unfavorable report. Can I see hands? Yeah.

All right. Um yeah, I think you guys are um unfortunately a revisit of the presentation and we look forward to seeing you again if you want to come. If you don't want to come, then um we'll submit an unfavorable report to planning and zoning and go from there. Okay. I will tap out my notes. I'll put them in the system. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. [Applause]

Okay. Um next our agenda item. That's our last piece of that is our last application for the evening. Um for discussion real quickly, do we need to have the 2026 board meeting calendar? You don't have that. That's fine. That's okay. Okay. A few items on the agenda. Yeah, I know. That's okay. You didn't get That's okay. Um I'm not going to open up mean any other business since it's so late. It's Oh my gosh, it is 10:08. Oh my god. Um men's room from July. I write them all in favor. Say I. All oppose.

Great. Okay. So, minutes are approved. Um per I need to sign those. You can do you have minutes for me to sign or anything? No. No. It is 10:09 p.m. I am going to adjourn this meeting. Thank you all so much. Thank you. 79. Thank you. I'm so sorry, man.