Board of Commissioners - Regular Meeting

And welcome to the September 1st, 2026 Dare County Board of Commissioners meeting. At this time, I'd like to call the good Reverend Keith Dye for an invocation. Reverend Dye, thank you as always for being here. Thank you. It is a pleasure.

I invite you to join me in prayer. God, we give you thanks for this day, for its blessings. as well as for its challenges. You are the source of all that is joyous and good, and you are the provider of wisdom that will carry us through the challenging times. We thank you for the conscientious leadership of this Board of Commissioners and all who oversee the work done in this beautiful place. Watch over these, your servants, as they work together to be good stewards of the resources needed to keep things running smoothly. and provide what is needed for all who live, work, and sojourn here. We are grateful for those who will be honored today for their service to Dare County. We are honored by the time given by those who lift up the needs of our schools, the benefits of our libraries, and the efforts of programs to help the most vulnerable. We are thankful for all who share their knowledge for those who serve on county boards, and the many who put their safety on the line as they work to protect us. Now we pray that you will fill us with compassion, concern, caring, and creativity. May our work together this day and beyond be a reflection of your generosity, your mercy, and your love. Bless us, gracious God, to be a blessing.

Amen. Thank you, Reverend Dye. May we stand for the pledge?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Okay, county manager. Thank you, County Manager. Happy to have with us this morning the chairman of the Board of Education, David Twitty. Thank you for being here this morning, as well as our favorite senator. Mr. Haining is also here with us this morning. As always. Oh, I'm sorry. And Senator-elect and now Senator Jerry Tillett is in the room. Senator, thank you for being with us as well. I'd like to start with a little humor. These three brothers were talking about their mother, their 95-year-old mother, and what they planned to get her for her birthday. And, of course, she's hard of hearing and can't see as well, very good. So, the first brother, John, he told his brothers, he said, I'm going to buy Mother a new house. The second brother, George, he said, well, I'm buying Mother a new car. Well, Steve said, well, you know, since Mother's hard of hearing and she can't see very well, he says, I'm going to buy her a parrot that can recite every scripture in the Bible. So they did, and they all got together. And the mother spoke to John. She said, John, the house you bought me is extremely nice, but it's way too big. And she said, George, she said, the car you bought me is also extremely nice, but it's way too fast. She said, Steve, yours really was the best. She said the chicken was delicious. Now, some out there say, why does he do this? Why does he tell a joke?

Why does he have a little bit of humor?

Well, the professionals say, before a meeting, laughter lowers the level of stress in your bloodstream. So I'm helping my fellow commissioners out. Physical tensions fade when you chuckle or smile, so it relaxes their muscles. A brief mental break sharpens your attention to hard tasks, so it proves their focus. And a positive feeling replaces the nervous dread, so it boosts your moods as well. So that's why I have a little humor before each and every board meeting. I have a few things to cover this morning. Most of you out there are very much aware of the fact that Dominion Energy is requesting a rate hike. The North Carolina Utilities Commission is going to hold a series of public hearings stating in late September. They said this back in May when they filed a rape proposal with the North Carolina Utilities Commission. These meetings will begin at 7 p.m. in our meeting here in Dare County. it will be right here in this room on October the 13th. So if you'd like to make public comment, please, please show up because these, this average is seeking about a 13 to 15.5% increase. In addition to that rate increase earlier this month, Dominion Energy also has filed a request with the North Carolina Utilities Commission seeking approval to update the fuel cost for customers in Northeast North Carolina. And the Outer Banks Voice reports that this could add some $23 additional dollars per month to your utility bill in addition to the potential 13 to 15.5% if they get this rate hike. This rate hike is a substantial amount of money that they're looking for. They serve about 129,000 customers in Northeast North Carolina. from Roanoke Rapids, the Hosky, Williamson, Elizabeth City, and the Outer Banks. So, if you want to make public comment, October 13, in this room, 7 p.m., concerning those rate hikes. The President Don't do it. Oh, sorry. I'll hold my comments for later. Mr. All right. Ten days from today, may strike your memory. The lives lost at the World Trade Center some 25 years ago. On September 11th, 2001, countless lives were changed forever. On this coming Friday, September 11th, we will remember every soul who never made it home, every family left with an empty chair, every loved one who still carries the pain of that today. We will remember the innocent lives lost at the World Trade Center and all those who gave their lives trying to save others. Their names may be etched in stone, but they live on in the hearts of those who love them and in the memory of a nation. Some wounds never completely heal. Some losses can never be replaced. But as long as we remember, they will never truly be gone. So for every life, for every family, for every hero, we remember, we mourn, and we honor, and we will certainly never, ever forget. And last, but certainly not least, I have the great privilege and sincere gratitude TO OFFER DARE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS RECOGNITION OF SENATOR BOBBY HAENIG FOR HIS DEDICATED SERVICE, HIS STEADFAST LEADERSHIP, AND HIS TIRELESS EFFORTS ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE OF NORTH CAROLINA'S FIRST SENATE DISTRICT, REPRESENTING BERTIE, CAMDEN, CURRYTUCK, DARE, GATES, HERDFORD, NORTHAMPTON, PASQUA-TANK, PERQUIMINS, AND TARO COUNTIES. Now, Senator Hayne Bobby's commitment to public service spans nearly a decade. He began his legislative career as the state representative of North Carolina House District 6, serving from January 2019 through August 2022. He then continued his service in the North Carolina Senate as senator for District 1 from August 2022 through August 2026. And proud of his service in the General Assembly, Bobby served a two-year term as Currituck County Commissioner from December 16th, excuse me, December 2016 through December 2018. Now, throughout Bobby's service, he has demonstrated a deep understanding of the unique character, traditions, challenges, and opportunities that define our coastal communities. He consistently worked to ensure that voices of north-eastern North Carolina are not only heard in Raleigh, but respected and represented in the decisions that affect our families, businesses, communities, and our way of life. From our fishermen and working waterfronts to our farmers, small businesses, families, and local communities, Senator Hoenig has shown a willingness to stand up and fight for the people who make our region strong. His advocacy for the fishing industry and those whose livelihoods depend on the waters of our coast reflect an appreciation for the heritage and traditions that have sustained eastern North Carolina for generations. He has worked to protect the interests of our counties, to address the concerns of our citizens, and to preserve the freedoms, the opportunities, and the quality of life that make our community so special. Whether the issue has involved our coastal economy, agriculture, infrastructure, public safety, local government, or the everyday concerns of working families, he has brought a strong and determined voice to the table. True public service is measured not simply by legislation or accomplishments, but by the willingness of the elected official to listen, to show up, to stand with his constituents, and to fight for the communities they represent. And Senator Hoenig has surely done this time and time again, and his service has reflected that commitment. Bobby, for your courage to advocate for Eastern North Carolina, your dedication to our communities, and your continued efforts on behalf of the people of Senate District 1, we extend our deepest appreciation. And I'd like for you to meet me up front for a presentation.

Am I the employee of the month?

Never let us down with that outfit you got on, brother. This is a certificate of appreciation, Bobby, and grateful recognition of your dedicated service, steadfast leadership, and tireless advocacy on behalf of the people there in eastern North Carolina. Our Dare County Board of Commissioners salute you for your courage, your commitment, and your extraordinary service to the people of eastern North Carolina. And I can't thank you enough for your friendship and always, always, always being there for us. Appreciate it. Thank you. Very brief. Very brief. Very brief.

Thank you.

Just kidding.

You know, Bob said some great words up here, but nobody does it by themselves. It's been a great partnership with you guys, always communicating with me, early mornings, late nights. We all do it together. Nobody does it alone. Proud to serve you all. And I'm stepping down, but I'm not stepping away. So thank you.

Thank you, Bobby. All right. County manager.

Sir, Mr. Chairman, that brings us to item two on our agenda.

This is our service pin. We'll be recognizing our employees for years of service.

Today we have 75 years of service that we're recognizing. We'll start with Gloria Jay, who will receive her tenure pin from Cliff Ragland.

Good morning and welcome.

Thank you, commissioners. So I have a few pages here. Not really. Today I have the privilege of recognizing Gloria Jay for her 10 years of dedicated service to Adair County and Adair County DHHS specifically. 10 years is a tremendous milestone. And when I think about Gloria and what she brings to our department, the words immediately come to mind are reliable, dependable, professional, and consistent. And that's every day with her. I had the opportunity to work closely with Gloria. And I think what stands out even more is just how She genuinely cares about her job, about the organization, and about the people around her. I can tell you personally that Gloria keeps me on point. There are a lot of moving pieces in public health, and Gloria is really reminding me, like, hey, Cliff, we got this policy due, or hey, Cliff, you know, we have something that needs to come up on your radar, and she's always on point and always on time, and she never misses a deadline, and she always stays ahead of them. She takes ownership of our policy review, update processes, and she works to maintain overall policy compliance throughout public health, due dates, follow-ups, anything that needs attention, and she's making sure nothing falls through the cracks. And I want to thank you for that. She takes that personal responsibility seriously, and she understands that doing her job well contributes to the success of the entire department. She serves as our primary point of contact for vital records in Dare County. She's handling all the birth certificates, deaths, home births, processes, burial transmits, any unique situations that come along, she's on top of. It's a very detail-oriented work that she requires accuracy, confidentiality, professionalism, and trust, and she handles that exceptionally well. She also plays an important part in our safety in DHHS. She coordinates all of our safety inspections, making sure concerns are identified and addressed. One additional duty that she takes care of is our CPR classes for Dare County employees and members of our community. And through that work, Gloria is helping give people skills that literally help save people's lives. But I don't want today to be about just her responsibilities because she brings a lot more to our team than that. Something I personally think that's Gloria genuinely cares about people that she works with. She's continually checking up on everyone, asking how you're doing, how your family's doing, your kids. And then when she asks you, you can tell that she genuinely cares. And that's not a small thing. She's always sort of personally reminding me, you know, of the things I need to take care of at work and keeping me on point. And that's Gloria. She cares about getting the job done right, but she also cares about the people around her. Also, I want to mention any kudos or any recognition that our department gets, any administrative task, anything going well, a process improvement, Gloria has her hand in it somewhere. When we're recognized because something was on time or compliant, something's running smoothly, It's usually because Gloria is helping with that process. And I know she will never seek the spotlight. She isn't someone who needs attention or wants everyone to know everything she's done. She simply does the work, does it well, moves on to the next thing that needs to be accomplished. She's a quiet professional. She doesn't seek recognition, but she definitely deserves it. A lot of what she does happens quietly behind the scenes. Sometimes there are people who make organizations successful aren't necessarily the people standing out front. They're people you can depend on every single day, the ones who remember the details, meet the deadlines, solve the problems, and make everyone around them better at their jobs. I crunched some numbers here, Gloria, so you can know about how many days you've committed to Dare County. So I like to crunch numbers. But 10 years of service, so that's like Monday through Friday, you know, for 10 years, minus some holidays in there. And she rarely has ever taken a sick day since I've been here. But that's 2017. 545 work days you've given to Dare County, and that's about 20,360 work hours. So that's thousands of days and hours helping coworkers, serving the public, meeting deadlines, solving problems, keeping our facilities safer, maintaining compliance, teaching others, and making Dare County DHHS a little bit better than the day before. So today, on behalf of Dare County DHHS and personally me, I want to say thank you. Thank you for keeping us on track. for your professionalism and dependability, for all the work you do, and especially for all the work that people don't see. Thank you for caring about the work, just as importantly, for caring about the people that you work with. It's been a privilege for my time with you, working alongside you, and very proud of these 10 years as we recognize you today. Congratulations, Gloria, on 10 years of achievement, excellence with Dare County. This recognition is definitely well-deserved.

Next, if Monica Creaf will come forward and receive her 10 year pin from Debbie Dutton.

Welcome ladies.

Good morning. Good morning, chairman, commissioners, county manager. It is my, truly my pleasure to be here this morning to present Monica with her 10 year service pin. Congratulations on achieving this 10-year milestone. We are extremely proud to recognize you for your exceptional dedication and service to DHHS and to our community. Monica is our BSEP nurse. That's our breast and cervical cancer control program. And she is an expert in her program managing multiple funding sources for our patients from state funding, federal funding, and grant funding with consistency, high standards, and accuracy and responsibility through your compassion. and your dedication, you provide care to those who otherwise would not be able to, they would find themselves in difficult situations managing their healthcare and could compromise their positive health outcomes. So your hard work, your willingness to help others shines through in everything that you do. Your commitment to our mission and the care that you provide the community make a true difference. We appreciate your professionalism, your reliability, and the passion that you bring to your role. If you don't know Monica, her happy place is the happiest place on earth, right? And that is a wonderful touch of joy that shows through who you are and what you bring to your job and what you bring to DHHS. Dedication is not what others expect of you. It's what you give to others. So thank you for your 10 years of outstanding service. And we deeply appreciate all that you do. And we look forward to at least, I don't know, 20, 30 more. Thank you. Thank you, Monica.

Next, if Pam Kaiser would come forward and receive her 20-year pin from Daniel Stein.

Welcome again, ladies.

Good morning, good morning. So I couldn't be happier to be here this morning to present Pam with her 20-year service pin. Pam's 20 years of service is an extraordinary testament to her dedication, commitment, and loyalty to the in-home aid program with the Deer County Department of Social Services. Pam is highly valued for the many contributions she has made with the care and well-being of the residents of Deer County. Her professionalism, clinical skills, compassion, and extensive knowledge of the in-home aid program has positively impacted countless clients and have helped strengthen our program in so many ways. Pam began her career with Dare County Social Services as an in-home aide in 2006. In 2018, she was promoted to community health technician, or we otherwise call a lead aide. In this role, she took on the important responsibility of ensuring client services were covered when other aides called out or were on leave. She also became a part of training and orienting new employees. In 2023, Pam was promoted to senior community health technician, which is what we call our senior lead aid. With this promotion came expanded responsibilities, including assigning daily schedules and coordinating coverage for our clients, assisting with staff trainings and meetings, and managing schedule changes. Anyone who works with Pam knows that she excels at the challenge of finding coverage at a moment's notice. and has saved my hide several times. Somehow she always seems to make it work. Other responsibilities in this role include coordination with the Deer County Garage regarding maintenance and repairs of our fleet vehicles. Again, this is something I could not do without her. This may not be the most glamorous part of the job, but it's another example of the many behind the scenes responsibilities Pam handles to help keep our program running smoothly. As a licensed CNA, PAM provides hand-on care to clients, including assistance with bathing, dressing, grooming, mobility, transfers, and home management tasks. This work is not easy. It requires physical strength and endurance, along with the ability to stand for long periods of time. Bend, lift, assist clients with transfers and personal care. But the physical demands are only part of what makes this job challenging. Over the years, in-home aides develop a close relationship with the clients they serve. They celebrate the good days, provide encouragement through the difficult ones, and sometimes witness a client's physical decline while continuing to offer steady support to the client and their family. This takes an incredible amount of emotional strength and resilience. Pam demonstrates unwavering patience and genuine empathy, especially when she's faced with difficult obstacles or challenging daily routines. Her observant nature and clinical experience has allowed her to recognize subtle changes in a client's condition and report those concerns before they developed into more serious problems. That level of attentiveness can make an immeasurable difference in someone's life. Outside of her work, Pam is a supportive wife and a loving mother. She also has two four-legged kiddos, Gizmo and Blondie, along with her grandpup, Lucy. Pam is talented, very talented creator of custom quilts and spent many years of doing cross stitch. She often shares her creativity by making thoughtful handmade gifts for her coworkers. Her thoughtfulness and creativity are just two of the many qualities that make Pam such a special person. Professionally, Pam's years of experience and institutional knowledge have made her an invaluable, invaluable resource to our team. She has played an important role in orienting and supporting new staff, helping ensure that new employees have knowledge, the skills and foundation they need to be successful. Pam is truly a team player. She's always willing to help in whatever way she can. When she's given a task, I know it will be completed and completed to the highest degree. She is often proactive in identifying and addressing issues before they even become problems. As her supervisor, I often think of Pam as our own version of MacGyver. Somehow, she can always rig about anything to meet the need at hand. If there is a problem to solve, Pam will usually figure it out. Her dependability, initiative, and willingness to step up are qualities that I greatly appreciate. I hope Pam realizes what an incredible asset she is, not only to me, but to all the ladies in the team, and most importantly, to the clients we serve. Pam's compassion and ability to connect with others are not qualities that can simply be taught. Her heartfelt compassion goes far beyond the duties listed on the job description. She shows genuine care for not only her clients, but for also her coworkers. She has a way of making people feel supported and valued and cared for, and that is a gift that has made a lasting difference through her 20 years of service. Pam, dedicated and loyal employees are difficult to find, and we are incredibly fortunate to have you. I want to take this time and opportunity to personally thank you for your dedication to the program. You have touched so many lives of so many people in our community, and you made a difference in my life as well. You have helped shape the program we have today. You are part of the foundation and cornerstone for the success of the in-home aid program. Your 20 years of service represent far more than just a number. They represent 20 years of caring for others, supporting your coworkers, serving your community, solving problems, stepping up, and making a difference in the lives of countless people. Pam, congratulations on your 20 years of dedicated service.

Next if Debbie Dutton would come forward to receive her 35-year pin from Sheila Davies.

Wow, welcome.

35.

Yeah, it's pretty remarkable. to be celebrating 35, but if you think about, we just recognized Gloria, Monica, Pam, and now Debbie, 75 years of service is a remarkable feat, but that's 75 years of service within one department in Dare County, so pretty extraordinary. It's truly an honor to once again stand before you this morning to recognize an extraordinary individual and public servant, Debbie Dutton, for her 35 years of service to Dare County. Five years ago, I had the privilege of standing here and presenting Debbie with her 30-year pin, and I remember reflecting then on the remarkable career she had built, the countless people she had touched, and the tremendous impact she's made in public health and in our community. At the end of my remarks that day, I also remember pretty clearly saying that I hoped Debbie would stay with us for at least another three to five years, and that every day she stayed with us, I considered a gift. Well, Debbie, thank you. We got another five years. And what a gift those five years have been. Today, rather than simply looking back at a list of accomplishment, I think Debbie's 35-year milestone gives us an opportunity to reflect on something even more meaningful. The difference one person can make when they dedicate a career to serving others. 35 years is more than a measure of time. It represents thousands of days showing up for coworkers, students, family, this community. It represents relationships built, people mentored, programs created, challenges overcome, and an organization that has grown and changed tremendously. All the way, Debbie has been shaping that growth with her work. She began her career with Dare County in 1991. Think about where you were in 1991, 35 years ago. Some people probably in this room may not have been born then. She started her career as a public health nurse, initially working as a school nurse and family planning coordinator. She went on to become a full-time school nurse, then the school nurse supervisor, and ultimately the nursing director for our community and clinical services division. When I asked Debbie to reflect on what has changed during her 35 years of service, one word came to mind, growth. Debbie started her career in a little red brick health department building, some of you may remember that building, at the corner of Ananias Stair Street and Highway 264-64. She watched our clinical services expand from Manteo to Frisco and to Naxahead. When Debbie began as a school nurse, she was only the third school nurse in Dare County, helping cover all the schools from Manteo to Hatteras and the Northern Beaches. Today, we have a school nurse in every Dare County school. She remembers when community and clinical services consisted of only 11 staff members. Today, she leads a team of approximately 43 staff members. And what was once just four programs, maternal health, family planning, child health and communicable disease, has now grown into 16 agreement addendums or state contracts with numerous programs and services designed to meet the changing needs of our community. Debbie hasn't simply witnessed that growth, she's helped lead that growth. She was part of the leadership and developed programs such as Peer Power and Miles of Smiles. She helped expand prenatal services so more women could receive care. I remember, gosh, 12 years ago we were doing prenatal care two days a week. Now we're doing it five days a week in three locations. She helped build our school nursing and health program into what it is today, which now includes behavioral health and, as of this school year, telehealth. And throughout 35 years of tremendous change in public health, Debbie has remained a steady and trusted leader. I also asked Debbie what she's most proud of, beyond, of course, being an incredible wife, mom, and grandmother. I had to throw that in. Of course she mentioned being named Dare County Employee of the Year in 2000. That remains a special accomplishment. She also spoke about her own professional journey, starting from school nurse, growing into the nurse supervisor and director that she is today. But what she mentioned first tells you a lot about Debbie. She talked about the students she cared for as a school nurse. She said one of the things she's most proud of is having watched those students grow into respectful, professional adults many of whom now work for Dare County or work in our schools or own businesses in the community and are now raising their own children. To me, that perfectly captures what 35 years of public service really means. It isn't simply the number of years you've worked or the positions you've held. It's the generations of people whose lives you have touched along the way. And after 35 years, there are also certainly some great stories. Debbie remembers an elementary school student who was sent to her office to have a little hygiene discussion. After some investigation, Debbie discovered that while walking to the bus stop in Wanchese, the child had found a dead fish on the side of the road and put it in her pocket of her overalls. As Debbie says, like any good little Wanchese girl, I'm sure she had been taught that when you find a fish, you take care of it. Then there was the middle school student interviewing Debbie for a PTA newsletter who asked what the school nurse's office needed. And when Debbie asked the question back to the student, the student's recommendation was bunk beds. And even during COVID, there were moments of joy, including a dance party at one of our larger vaccination clinics, complete with music provided by our volunteers. Those stories also say something important about Debbie. Through the difficult days, the long days, and even some truly extraordinary days, she never lost her ability to laugh, connect with people, or find joy in her work. Five years ago, I described Debbie as kind, compassionate, genuine, respected, knowledgeable, and the epitome of a servant, a public health servant. Five years later, I wouldn't change a word. What I would add is that we now have five more years of evidence, five more years of leadership, five more years of mentoring employees, five more years of caring for our community, Five more years of quietly doing whatever needed to be done, not because someone was watching, but because that is simply who Debbie is. On a personal note, I said five years ago that I cherish Debbie as a person, and I am beyond grateful for all that she's done for Darragh County and for public health, and that's even more true today. 35 years is an extraordinary legacy of service. You have helped shape the public health in Dare County. You've cared for generations of families, helped build programs that will continue long after all of us are gone, developed employees and future leaders, and made our organization and our community better because you're a part of it. Five years ago, I had said that every additional day working with us is a gift. Thanks for giving us 1,824 more days. And I'm certainly not putting an expiration date on that statement, but I won't hold you to more. On behalf of Dare County Health and Human Services, your colleagues, the countless individuals and families you've served, and personally for me, thank you for your 35 years of service. And I will, one last thing. I was thinking about this this morning. So Debbie remarkably wears, I'm not going to pull your neck over, proudly, she is so proud, all of her service year pins. I do worry about her neck at some point. He's adding this additional pin. But congratulations and thank you.

Oh gosh, I don't know if I can say anything now. First and foremost, I just want to thank everyone that has supported me along my journey. What a special, what a special career that I just, I will treasure forever. 35 years ago, a special thanks to Harry Johnson and Louise Gray, those might be names that you recognize, for taking a chance on me. for all of those that have supported me along the way. And finally, Jay Burris and Sheila Davies for having the trust in me to put me in the position that I currently hold. I have been so blessed and God is so good. As Sheila mentioned, we have seen a tremendous amount of change from where we've been to where we are today has been a whirlwind. The support of our community is unmatched. And thank you to the commissioners over the years, our leadership in DHHS over the years, and public health has gotten us to where we are today. The stories are endless. The memories will last a lifetime. I have a picture in my office that says something that you might have seen somewhere, but it says, love what you do and you'll never work a day in your life. That is so true. and I have been so blessed. So, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

Mr. Next, if Sheriff Doug Dowdy would come forward to present the Employee of the Month. Sheriff Doug Dowdy Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Good morning, Sheriff.

This isn't a surprise to him because I've never been able to surprise him in my life, I don't think. But I will start out right from the first saying that I have nothing to do with this. This was done from somebody on the outside that knows this young man very well because of what he does while he's here. So I'll go ahead and call him up. Brent Dowdy, come on up. Good morning. Brent has been recognized by one of the individuals that he spends more time with than anybody. Brent works in our civil process, which anybody in here that comes to court or is around him would know that they see him either at the metal detector or in the courtroom or walk in the halls in this building because he does the security over here. So he's an all-around guy, and everybody knows him. I don't care where I go. Somebody knows who he is or where he's been or what he is or what he does. And he called me this morning and says, any way I can get out of this? He already knew what he did. The phone call came to my office, and he's not in my office very much, but the young lady said, I can't tell you what I need to tell you while he's in there. I'm like, so what am I going to do? Run him out and he's going to either think he's in real trouble or something's going to be really good. Well, you know, then he started looking and he figured out, hey, well, I talked to somebody because he knew who to talk to and figured out it was, but didn't let me know that he knew who he was, that it was going to be him until this morning. But he said, I'd really rather not do this. And I understand that completely. Never been one that wanted any accolades or tried to put himself up in front of anybody. He's definitely a public servant. Loves what he does. Been doing this for 14 years. And I'm going to read what the young man that nominated him for this position said. He said, I am nominating Brent Doughty for Employee of the Month, and I want to explain why length of service is not a reason to take someone's contribution for granted. It is a reason to recognize it more specifically. Brent has been with the Dare County Sheriff's Office since 2012. What he contributed this month was not different from what he contributes each month. Brent is plugged into the community like no other officer I have ever worked with. He not only has his cell phone number ready for anyone that may need his help, but he also answers the call. But the fact that he has delivered that quality of service for 14 years running with no diminishment and no ceremony represents exactly the kind of sustained commitment that law enforcement agencies thrive on. You know, that says an awful lot. It's hard for me, you know, because he is my son, to, you know, ever really acknowledge anything that he does special. Because no matter what that would be, somebody would go and say, you know, your daddy's a sheriff. I've never heard him, you know, now he'll tell you real quick his daddy is the sheriff, that's for sure. But I've never ever seen him use that anywhere. I'm very fortunate to have two sons that work with me and my youngest son in law school. And he promises he's going to the right side, not the dark side. So hopefully he'll be in that office one day and we'll enjoy what he does. When Brent was about 3 1⁄2 years old, and I worked in a Hosky, I used to take him to Hardee's in the morning to meet his grandmom and granddad. And he commanded a presence even at 3 1⁄2 years old in Hardee's. Walked to every table, knew everybody in there, spoke to everybody, stole food off of what they were eating. And I know his grandmom and granddad are like, oh, my goodness, it's no telling what he's going to be like when he grows up. He was in a Jeep. And we lived right beside Paul Terry. Paul Terry lived in front of us. And he was on the road driving this little Jeep, but he had, thank goodness, it didn't run very fast, because he'd have probably not been here today, because he's kind of wide open. But Paul Terry stopped him and said, I'd like to see you drive. He had a lollipop in his mouth, and both of his hands looked up at him. He said, I ain't got no driver's license. He laughed, I laughed, but that's probably not the first time he's been stopped, hopefully not. It may not be the last. That's exactly right. By Paul Terry, yes. But he's a wealth of knowledge. He works with some people that are very, very smart in the clerk's office. He's a part of the drug court and has a heart for them. He wants to make sure that things go the right way and what happens is the right outcome. He'll stick his nose in business that sometimes I wish he never did, but You know, it's the right place to be because he thinks it's the right thing to do. With a friend like that, I don't believe you can go wrong. And a law enforcement officer, you can't find anything better than that. That's for sure. I will tell you that if you call him, he's coming. and get out of the way, because he'll be there for you, and he's going to do the job that he needs to do when he gets there. And as a friend, you can't find a better one. You can call him. He'll come. It doesn't make any difference. Call him at 3 o'clock in the morning. 5 o'clock in the morning, he'll be there. Now, my second son will tell you, if you call him, I'm coming, but I might not be there in the next 10 minutes. It might take me two or three hours to get there. And my third one will tell you, don't call me. You might want to call somebody else, because I ain't the way in the world I can help you. I don't know what it will be. So in that respect, he's the top dog in that position. I'm honored to be able to stand here and say those things about him. And I thank you. I thank that there's somebody else that feels the same way about him. A lot of people, one of the ladies back there said, what are you doing here this morning? I said, we've got a lot going on. I said, but Brenda's getting in. Plus she said, oh, my God, I want to stay here long enough to see that happen. So anyway, somebody else knows him too. But it's an honor for me to be able to give that to you. I'm proud of you. I love you. And you take care of yourself. Thank you. And here, you've got to give that back. And there's your plaque. All right. Thank you all.

Take that back. Yes, sir. Bobby, Bobby, before you dismiss everybody, there's a saying behind... Every good man is a good woman. Well, I'm going to reverse that this morning because I'm going to tell Debbie behind that good woman is a good man. And that's Max Dutton, former Board of Commissioners, Deer County. Max, stand up. We want to recognize Max. I had the honor of serving with Max for a couple of years on this board. What a principled gentleman he is. And I can't thank you enough, Max, for your service, too. Bobby?

Before we go to public comment, will those of you that received a recognition this morning, please go out through this door and get a picture. And I'll wait just a second for the room to clear. Ladies and gentlemen, now's the time that's been set aside for public comment. If you have public comment and you've signed up, I'll call on you. At the end of calling the list, if you aren't on there, I'll ask if anyone else hasn't. If so, raise your hand. When you come to the podium, please state your name and where you're from. Please limit your comments to five minutes. There's a green light on the podium that will come on when your time begins. There's a yellow light on the podium that will come on when you have about a minute left. And when the red light comes on, you need to conclude your remarks. If you're here to speak to item 11, which is the public hearing on a combined capital grant application, please wait until that agenda item to speak to that issue. With that said, the first person on the list is Lee Goldman.

Welcome this morning, Lee.

Mr. Good morning. I'd like to welcome the commissioners and thank you for taking the time out to hear me this morning. Last year, I showed up talking about the same thing. I don't like the word anniversary on certain events. Anniversaries are great for 250 years of the country. Wedding anniversaries. and other things, years of service. This year marks the 25th remembrance of the events of 9-11. I wear this uniform today after giving it some thought of what I should wear here today. I wore this uniform to countless funerals, to people that I knew, to people I didn't know, from the events from New York. But also there were other people that wore this type of uniform in the Pentagon and over in Shanksville. to remember those people also. This year is the fifth anniversary. I'm sorry, I used the word I hate. The fifth year of doing the 9-11 walk, the walk to remember in Dare County. We started with 30 people. Last year we had 340. I would love to see 500 people. I'm trying to think where to go with this. I don't like to write things down. I like to speak from the heart. I've watched this grow year after year, and I would like to see it continue to grow. I don't want to see people forget, but we seem to have done that in this country. I don't want to see our youth forget the events. I don't want to see the people that are here forget those events or people to tell other people that those events never really happened. I am here to invite the county, the people of Deer County, the visitors, other counties, school children, everybody to attend this year's walk. There'll be refreshments that are donated by several different stores, whether it be Stack'em High, New York Bagels, Duck Donuts, Front Porch Coffee, Target, Food Lion, and several others that will be supplying free food to everybody. This year we're opening up signing in at 7 o'clock because last year we did a little later and I didn't realize how many people were going to show up. So taking that into account, we're going to start at 7. There is also a separate section for Dare County employees to sign up so you can get your wellness points. And if anybody hasn't had a chance to listen to Betsy Robinson sing the National Anthem, that in itself is a reason to come to hear it. There are other things that I do have in the works I can't control, but I'm hoping they fall into place. One being the weather. I do recommend people dress appropriately and hydrate before, during, and after the event. If you feel you cannot complete the walk, that is fine. We will have transportation to bring you back. It's not a competition. It is the day of nothing more than to remember. That's all I really have on this matter. Does anybody have any questions, thoughts, comments? I still got a minute and a half.

No, but thank you, Lee, for your spearheading this year after year. commendable and can't thank you enough for doing that.

Thank you. I would like to point out that... Start time of the walk.

Because it's a different time. It's not like nine on the dot.

No. The start time and the reason we started everything at seven is the start time is 846. 846 is significant because it was the time the first plane struck the World Trade Center and the events of that day unfolded. We're looking at about 830 for the National Anthem, followed by a prayer by Cherry Wheeler, then lining up and then starting the walk. I will like to just point out another event that will be happening in October, which will be October 10th. It coincides with this. It is the Tunnels to Tower Run. And you can find that also either on the flyers that I have or you can Google that and it'll be showing up here. This would be, I believe, the third year for that event that starts in Kill Devil Hills. I do have flyers for the event. If people would like that, and there's a QR code, you can check out the website, see where we started and where we ended. I'm hoping that the photo that we take at the top of the monument again is too big for the lens. Last year, it was nice to see that. And five, four, three, two, one. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Lou.

Next is Nicole Hasselwain.

Welcome this morning.

Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. Thank you for allowing me this opportunity to speak before this board today. I have been a resident of this county for more than 20 years. I am and always will be the incredibly proud mother of Zane Thomas Hughes, who was murdered last year here in Derrick County. and I'm also the mother of three other phenomenal children. This morning I am asking this board to please listen carefully to what the facts reveal because serious questions about accountability and crime victims rights violations by the Dara County District Attorney's Office can no longer be ignored. This is the second time I have stood before this board to raise concerns about the treatment of my family as crime victims. I am back because those concerns have not been resolved. The rights guaranteed to us under North Carolina law continue to be violated. A few of the most disturbing things I have learned along this journey is my family is not the only family that has been forced to fight for rights that the law already guarantees. I have spoken with and learned of other crime victims whose rights have been repeatedly infringed upon or ignored altogether. At some point, repeated failures stop looking accidental. They begin to look systemic and that is something that this board should take very seriously. I want to begin with discussing the conduct of the Dare County District Attorney's Office. Much of my concerns stems from the way my family's rights have been interpreted, communicated, and enforced. During the most recent session of Superior Court, the Honorable Judge Womble said, and I quote, I will tell you unequivocally as the mother of a deceased victim, you have the best prosecutor prosecuting that case that I know of, and that is Mr. Jeff Cruden. I greatly respect Judge Womble, but I strongly disagree with that assertion, and I do not expect this board to simply take my word for it. The District Attorney of Dare County abuses his position not simply through isolated mistakes, but through a pattern of conduct that I believe has gone unchecked for far too long. In June of this year, District Attorney Jeff Cruden made false statements that his office had not yet received my son's autopsy from the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner and requested a continuance on that basis. Then, approximately two and a half hours after I spoke publicly at this meeting on August 3rd, I received an email from his office stating that the autopsy had finally been received with the copy attached. For months, I possessed For months, I possessed my own copy from the OCME of my son's autopsy, and I did not release it. As of yesterday, I now have something more significant than recordings or just copies, written confirmation directly from the North Carolina Office of the Chief Medical Examiner. According to the OCME, its request log shows that Mr. Cruden personally submitted a request for records in Zane's case through its document portal. They further confirmed that all reports requested by Mr. Cruden were released to him by email on September 19th of 2025. That was approximately nine months before Mr. Cruden stood in Superior Court and represented that his office had not yet received Zane's autopsy. I want to be precise. OCME's email states that all reports Mr. Cruden requested were released to him on September 19th. The email itself does not identify each individual report by name. But what it does establish is that Mr. Cruden requested records in Zane's case and that every report he requested was provided to him by the OCME in September of 2025. That fact, combined with the representations later made in court, raises an obvious and serious question that deserves an answer. Over the course of the last year, Mr. Cruden has created a false narrative not only about me but my son, one of which my conduct supposedly threatens or interferes or causes harm to the prosecution of the people charged with murdering my son. It has been used as justification for limiting my communication with his office and refusing to enforce rights I have repeatedly attempted to assert under the Crime Victims' Rights Act. I do not need to stand at this podium and call anyone a liar. The records can speak for themselves. Last Thursday, Mr. Cruden put much of that narrative in writing. I received an email from him that I can make available to this court in its entirety if you would like. A few of the things... Included in the email were requests for information for an unrelated case that would hinder the prosecution of those charged with my son's murder. He also stated that an individual's rights can be forfeit... Do I have to be quiet now?

Go ahead, ma'am.

...have to be forfeited or diminished when their actions are supposedly detrimental to the administration of justice. And finally, he informed me that there will be very little contact, if any, between his office and me until Zane's case goes to trial in March of 2027. He then wrote, there will be no more release of privileged information to the media like you did with your son's juvenile case file if I have any control over it. That statement is important because it is another example of the problem I am describing. I did not release Zane's juvenile case file. Before Zane died, I possessed a copy of the state's discovery of evidence against him. Zane was a minor when he was charged, and I was provided this by the attorney I paid to represent him. That discovery is where the limited material I later used came from. The actual juvenile records are entirely different. I have not released any of those records. So when Mr. Cruden states as fact that I released my son's juvenile case file, that's simply not what occurred. The state's discovery provided to me by Zane's attorney before his death and juvenile records from the clerk's office are not the same thing, and that distinction matters because this allegation has become part of much of the larger narrative, one that has been used not only to justify the way I have been treated as a crime victim, but to suggest that Mr. Cruden somehow has the authority to diminish, suspend, or effectively strip me of that status. I have spent the last year listening to and learning interpretations of the North Carolina Crime Victims' Rights Act, Article 46. The law defines who qualifies as a victim, it identifies the rights afforded to those victims, and it places affirmative obligations upon prosecutors and the courts. Those rights do not disappear because exercising them while a prosecutor disagrees with the victim or because someone decides that only one family member of a homicide victim should matter. The very first right listed in the North Carolina Crime Victims' Rights Act is to be treated with dignity and respect. Me and my family have not been treated with dignity and respect. At Mr. Cruden's request, Zane's biological father was designated as the primary point of contact for the family. Yet that phrase does not appear anywhere in Article 46. The statute identifies victims, family members, and individuals entitled to assert a deceased victim's rights. It does not create a separate legal category called point of contact, quote unquote, that replaces the rights of other qualifying family members. More importantly, this designation has not worked in practice. Zane's biological father has not been actively involved in his life since he was four years old. He now lives in Missouri, and I do not have a reliable way of contacting him directly. Since he was designated as the family's point of contact, my family has not received notifications from him regarding hearings, releases, court dates, or other developments in Zane's case. So the question becomes, What purpose does a point of contact serve if the people who are actually entitled to the information are not receiving it? A procedural label should never become a substitute for complying with the law. And an administrative phrase that does not exist in the statute should not be transformed into a mechanism for limiting rights that the statute expressly provides. The last thing that I would like to bring to this board's attention is the way juvenile justice is being administered here in Dare County. I believe it needs a serious examination and needs a complete overall haul in a way it responds to juveniles who present a repeated danger to themselves, other children in this community. This past May, my 15-year-old son was threatened to be shot by another juvenile because the boys were interested in the same girl. The other juvenile sent my son a picture of himself holding what appeared to be an AR-15.

Nicole, we're way past time, but try to wrap it up.

I'm almost done, sir. I'll go fast. My son reported it to the school resource officer, and other juveniles were charged with communicating threats. To my knowledge, no search of that juvenile's residence was ever conducted, and the weapon depicted in the photograph has never been recovered. Juvenile justice determined that the appropriate response was a diversion contract. His case was never brought before a judge. I believe that this community is entitled to ask whether keeping that case out of court adequately protected anyone or whether we were once again waiting for something irreversible to happen before deciding the warning signs were too serious enough to know that a stronger intervention was necessary. The severity and public safety issue is bigger than any of us could know. I am requesting that this board assist local law enforcement with starting a safety initiative to recover these illegal 3D printed firearms and conversion kits being manufactured by juveniles in Dare County. Thank you so much.

Thank you, ma'am.

Thank you.

Next is Mitchell Bateman.

Welcome this morning, Mitchell. Good morning. Good morning, commissioners, county managers, scholars. Good to see all of you. I'm going to use this as a recruitment bid for something that's on your agenda later on this afternoon. It's item 15, article number one, the Dare County Joint Committee Advisory Committee, Nursing Home Advisory Committee. The residents in the two facilities that we have here in Dare County, Peak and Spring Arbor, that's one of the largest growing groups of individuals in our county, the ones who often can't speak for themselves. They don't all have family members that live here that can represent them either. The general statutes of the state of North Carolina established these committees while the county had a committee of nursing home advisory board committee until 2020, at which point all the members resigned. You've had an open committee for almost six years now without a single member on it. And if you go in your packet to the general statutes that are quoted there on page 127 in your package, you'll see that this committee is not exactly like some of the other ones that you have. You know, you have the authority to recommend and put members on the committee, provided that they meet the state's requirements. This is the only committee I think the county has that requires 36 hours of state-level training, including multiple visits to each one of the facilities and a letter, an essay to the Committee on Aging for why you want to be on that committee. Currently, there are two people in this county who have met the eligibility to serve on that committee since 2020. Two people. Two people. County commissioners, until you go through the training, you are not eligible to serve on the committee. And usually there's a county commissioner appointed to every one of the boards that you have. but you will not be allowed to be appointed until you finish the training. There are two people in this county who have finished the training to serve on these boards, Mary Pendle and me. That's not a huge representation. There are seven open seats. It is an opportunity this afternoon to fill two of those through Mary's training and mine that we just finished in the first of August. I don't think there's another board that requires that level of state-level training. So I'd like to encourage everyone everywhere to at least consider going through this training because of the importance that it represents in being an advisory and an oversight group to represent these people in the community who often mentally and physically are unable to speak for themselves. So I'll give up the rest of my minute and a half. Thank you.

Thank you, Mitchell. Next is Aida Harville. Welcome, Aida.

Good morning, Commissioners, County Manager, everyone else on the dais. I'm Aida Havel, and I live in Salvo. I have three comments today. The first pertains to item 12 on your agenda, the joint resolution addressed to Governor Stein and the Department of Transportation that requests a permanent ferry toll waiver for locally registered vehicles. While I support the thought and the sentiment behind the resolution, Neither Governor Stein nor the Department of Transportation have the authority to grant a permanent ferry toll waiver for locally registered vehicles. That power rests with the General Assembly, which passed the law requiring tolling of all vehicles without exception. I would like to suggest that this resolution instead be directed to all of the members of the General Assembly. My second comment involves flock cameras or more generically automated license plate readers. I do acknowledge that these ALPRs can be extremely useful when a child has been kidnapped or a suspect has fled a crime scene and time is of the essence. But there are far too many reports of misuse of these cameras and human nature being what it is, the temptation is great. The following quote comes directly from the website of the National Policing Institute, which is an organization that supports the use of these ALPRs. Quote, a state audit found federal immigration authorities had gained access to camera data in violation of state law. Disciplinary records show officers using these systems to track people they knew personally. Wrongful felony stops have been built on misread plates. Unresolved litigation is testing whether warrantless queries of a camera network amount to a Fourth Amendment search. Close quotes. In the slides for the upcoming presentation, I noticed that there is almost nothing mentioned about oversight, transparency, or accountability. As an attorney and someone who values our civil liberties, I'm deeply concerned about how intrusive these cameras are. Law enforcement personnel have used the system to stalk ex-romantic partners and to target people they deem suspicious but who have committed no crime. They have also submitted vague or fake justifications for the searches they have run. As I said earlier, I do recognize the benefit of having these cameras for legitimate crime-solving needs. But there should be limitations on the number of cameras, their placement, how and when they are accessed, when and with whom the data is shared, how long the data is retained, and when and how it is disposed of. If Deer County and its municipalities intend to keep these cameras, I suggest that you provide strict oversight and accountability for them in the form of a civilian review board. People who support these ALPRs sometimes say, well, if you're not doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't mind the surveillance. I would repeat that back to the agencies using the cameras. If you're not doing anything wrong, then you won't mind independent civilian oversight, audits, and accountability. There are civilian review boards across the country reviewing these cameras. I can think of no reason why Deer County should not have a civilian review board as well if everything is above board. And finally, my third comment is I want to specifically thank Commissioners Balance, Bateman, Ross, and Woodard for coming to the public meeting that we had in Buxton a few weeks ago on the standing water on Highway 12. It was informative and useful and responsive to the community, and I appreciate you all being there. Thank you.

Next is Miriam Rollin.

Welcome this morning.

Thank you so much. Good morning, Commissioners and Dare County residents. I'm Miriam Rollin, and I wanted to introduce myself. I'm Rollin Forward for House District 1. I wanted to share with you all and with our Dare County online viewers a little bit about my background as the newest candidate on the ballot in Dare County. First of all, at my core, I care deeply about people who have needs that are not being met, and I also know how the system works. I've been a fighter for disadvantaged kids and families for my 40-plus year career, fighting in Congress, in state legislatures and in the courts. While working full-time as an advocate for vulnerable kids and families, I put myself through law school at night. And for 16 years, I was a leader of a group called Fight Crime, Invest in Kids, working to win over a billion dollars in federal and state investments in proven effective, early childhood education, after-school programs, and voluntary home visiting for at-risk new moms. I did that working on both sides of the aisle, bringing the voices of 5,000 police chiefs, sheriffs, and prosecutors to support these crucial investments in our children, youth, and families so we can all have a better and safer future. Now in retirement with my wonderful husband, Mike, in beautiful Dare County for the last few years. I've been very active in my party. I even ran for Ducktown Council last year, coming up four votes shy. Heartbreaking. I thought my days of seeking public office were over, and I was committed to continuing the work needed to help elect candidates on the November ballot. Then I found out that our Democratic candidate for NC House District 1 was dropping out of the race. Remembering the famous quote, be the change you want to see in the world, I officially became the Democratic candidate for NC House District 1 in early August and have been moving very fast since then. Time is very tight between now and November 3rd. But I'm not just doing this as an exercise in democracy. I'm in it to win it. So I've got a web page rolling forward for NC.com, a Facebook page rolling forward for NC House 1, ActBlue account, RAC cards, yard signs, and I've spoken at events in five of the six counties. Not bad for a few weeks' work. I'm happy to talk with anyone about why I'm running, why I think we can do better. Reach out for more. My email is rolandforward4nc1 at gmail.com. My phone is 252-491-1946. Mailing address, PO Box 8197, Duck, North Carolina, 27949. Thanks for listening, and let's be in touch. And please vote on November 3rd. Thanks so much.

Thank you. Next is Andrea O'Donnell.

Good morning. I do have some box sheets. I'm Andrea O'Donnell of Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, the organizer of Deflock Dare. I took a vacation day today to be here. And scheduling public comment for 9 a.m. on a weekday does kind of send a message that public comment isn't exactly wanted necessarily. There are a lot of people that let me know that they couldn't be here today because of that timing. So I wanted to add that I have taken paid time off to be here. You've likely seen the growing concern about automated license plate readers. I'm not here to rehash all of the talking points. I'm here to give you facts and one legal warning this board cannot ignore. Dare County currently runs 48 static flock cameras across numerous agencies, plus an unknown number of patrol mounted units. That gives us more ALPR cameras per capita than Charlotte and Raleigh combined. These aren't simple plate readers. Each capture is a high resolution cluster of images detailing your plate and vehicle characteristics, feeding a searchable record of where every driver in this county goes, created without a warrant, without suspicion, and without consent. A dragnet. In 1983, the Supreme Court ruled in the United States v. Knotts that tracking one car on one trip with a single beeper locator was constitutional. But the justices explicitly warned that dragnet type of law enforcement practices involving 24-hour surveillance of any citizen would raise different constitutional questions entirely. That warning was theoretical in 1983. Today, it's Dare County's reality. This isn't one beeper on one suspect. It's a networked system logging everyone who drives on 158, 64, 12, 345, and our residential streets. I'm asking you to take that 40-year-old warning seriously today. Did you know that Phlox owned sales training materials, which was leaked recently, quote, a company consultant instructing staff not to bother denying that this is mass surveillance, but to own the narrative by redirecting residents to audit logs instead of contesting the label. When the vendor selling you this system privately admits that it What it publicly avoids, this board should weigh that admission heavier than any marketing brochure. This isn't about distrusting law enforcement. Officers are human, and humans misuse power. This is not cynicism or paranoia. It's history. It's why the Fourth Amendment exists. No officer could legally follow me every day logging my movements without probable cause. Why should an AI-powered camera network be allowed to do exactly that? And the safety case, it doesn't hold up. FBI data shows cities running these systems, like Atlanta, which has a whole huge live crime facility, have seen no meaningful improvement in clearance rates for serious crimes. We're being asked to accept a permanent dragnet on every innocent driver in exchange for a benefit that is not showing up in the numbers. You'll be hearing today from others about court cases like Chowdhury v. U.S., and hopefully a full written ordinance is being presented to ban ALPRs countywide. I'm leaving you a tracking document which you just received confirming misuse cases every contract pause, canceled, or abandoned by other jurisdictions. Proof this concern is not fringe, it's bipartisan, and it's growing. Our petition already has 750 signatures, which you have a copy of, from your constituents, visitors, and that was done with very little legwork on my part, those 750. Please read the contract, Mr. Outen. I want to make sure you read section 5.3, allowing flock. to make their own decisions about the sharing of the information since you signed the contract, do the due diligence, listen to the people in this room and the people online who can't be here. My job as a citizen is to defend the Constitution. I'm asking you to do yours as elected officials and ban LPRs in Dare County. Thank you.

Good morning.

Welcome to see and I have a copy of the relevant portions of Marbury versus Madison for all of you

And all of you should have received my emails last week, and I hope you've read them. And it should be clear that I'm opposed to these cameras as the system is as broad in scope as it is. It is not the same as those static license plate readers. It's covering itself with that definition. The men who wrote the U.S. Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights deliberated for years to protect individual rights from overbearing and overreaching government. And now, are we now so ignorant of our history and the founding documents that define the highest law of the land that we live in, that we would so willingly toss them aside for an illusion of safety and security. The surveillance system, barely beyond infancy, has already been plagued with abuses that should remind us all of the reason the amendments to the Constitution were written, because men are not angels. and government and policing need restraints, restraints that prevent the base human desires from prevailing. That's why the Fourth Amendment was written. I highly doubt that a challenge to this surveillance would survive a constitutional review in the Supreme Court. I would suggest that you review the decision in Marbury v. Madison and a more recent decision in Chattree v. United States, which I sent to you. And make the decision now to stand on the right side of this violation of privacy before you are forced to deal with the error of allowing it to continue. Thank you. And just to quote Justice Jackson in the Chattree case, she said, allowing government to access all of the cell phone users movements is a virtual pen, pen, panopticon, which to scrutinize its citizens actions. And these cameras are the same. And I included a definition of panopticon in the papers that I sent.

Thank you. Bonnie Westcott.

Repeat that name. Bonnie Westcott. Welcome, Ms. Westcott.

Good morning. Morning Chairman, morning Commissioners. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. I'm just gonna touch on something that I was recently made aware of yet is supposed to be taking place next month. I'm here to share my input and personal perspective regarding the proposed relocation of the graves at the Derry County Regional Airport. This is a site that holds a deeply personal significance for me as it contains my own family's resting place. My lineage to this site starts with my father, George Obadiah Wescott Jr., his father, George Obadiah Wescott Sr., his father, George Rowley Wescott, his father, Obadiah Jennings Wescott, and his father, who was my great, great, great grandfather, John Wellington Wescott, who is buried on the airport property. To provide some historical context, John Wellington Wescott donated an acre of the property that was used to build the original Dare County Courthouse in 1870, which stands as arguably the oldest government building in our county. His contributions along with those of the others buried there are foundational to the very identity of this community. These are not merely anonymous unmarked graves or just obstacles at an airport. These are local historical figures who shaped Roanoke Island and Derry County. They deserve to be honored and protected as permanent designated historical site, right where they are, rather than being exhumed and relocated. Sorry. Also buried in the cemetery are John Thomas Daniel Sr. and Mary E. Weskett. They're the parents of John Thomas Daniels, Jr., who was a U.S. Lifesaving Service surfman who snapped the iconic and world-famous photograph of the Wright brothers' very first powered flight in 1903, which took place right down the road from where we are right now. The lineage of the individuals in this graveyard is directly woven into the birth of aviation and the global history of flight as we know it. Again, these are not just people we're talking about. These are local historical figures, and they should be respected as such. Instead of exhuming and relocating these remains, this area should be formally designated and protected as a historical site for our island and our county. I'm confident that no one in this room would be comfortable with the idea of their own ancestors being disturbed centuries, centuries after their passing. Logistically and ethically, there is no dignified way to relocate remains that have been at rest for hundreds of years. We do not know the structural integrity or the conditions of the caskets. After centuries in the ground, it is highly improbable that these structures can be excavated intact, which risks severe and disrespectful damage to the deceased. I urge you to please reconsider or postpone these plans. I, along with other members of the Westgate family, are open to a discussion and a viable solution with the airport as well as the county. We owe it to our island's history and to these individuals, my family, to let them rest in eternal peace. Thank you.

Matthew, is it SARS? I'm sorry, I can't read or write it.

Welcome this morning. Good morning. I am Matthew Sines. I'm a resident of Southern Shores, and I'm here on PTO today to join the chorus of voices expressing their concerns with Dare County's use of ALPR cameras. I'm calling for the cancellation of Dare County's contract with FLOC, the removal of these cameras, and a moratorium on all ALPR technologies in Dare County. As an Outer Banks local, I greatly value my privacy, and as I can assure you, anyone who can stand the isolation of an OBX winter does. And as a taxpaying, law-abiding citizen of Derrick County, I have to say I despise being under constant dragnet surveillance any time I go anywhere in my car. Supporters will claim that ALPR cameras enhance public safety, but Dare County already has a significantly lower violent crime rate per capita than the North Carolina state average, a trend which has held since prior to the installation of these cameras. Is our reward for this good behavior becoming one of the most highly surveilled counties in North Carolina? The only evidence I've seen for these cameras being used to solve crimes in our communities are police departments posting on Facebook to find people who have attempted to vandalize these surveillance devices. Why should I, as a taxpayer, pay for a device whose only use is to solve problems it creates? Nationwide, the story is the same. In fact, if anything, they make us less safe. You have to have your head in the sand to ignore the countless examples of ALPR technologies falsely implicating innocent people through misidentification and being abused by law enforcement and flock employees to spy on private citizens. So I ask again, why would I want my tax dollars to pay for these cameras? Keeping to the nationwide frame of reference, these technologies are hugely unpopular across the country and across political ideologies. From Los Angeles to Texas, communities and state governments are canceling their contracts with Flock and banning these ALPR technologies. Let me repeat that. California and Texas agree on this issue. Why then would tourists who are looking to relax and enjoy their summer vacation choose to come to our little panopticon? I can think of few things less relaxing than Big Brother tracking my every move. As backlash against these ALPR cameras continues to grow, I can think it will no doubt impact tourism to Dare County, which is our economic backbone. In conclusion, these cameras do not make us safer. As demonstrated today, they are despised by locals and they are detriments to our local economy. Dare County Board of Commissioners, I call on you to de-flock Dare County immediately. Thank you.

Andrea Windle.

Good morning.

Andrea Windle.

Yes.

Welcome, Ms. Windle.

Good morning. I am proud to live in the town of Kitty Hawk that does not have any flock cameras. How do you name it? I don't know. Anyway, town-wise, I mean, personal businesses, whatever. And I don't think I could say anything more than that has all been eloquently said by previous public commenters. I do agree that it's a slippery slope and what little bit of privacy that we have in this world should be held on to. And we can't just say no flock, it's no any surveillance because it just continues. And the reason why I was able to come here this morning to comment is because my daughter, who is 15, and is at First Flight High School, normally doesn't have first period class. She has an online class. She went to school early for first period this morning so I could make the meeting because she felt it was important that I come to represent because she sees the importance of that. So that is my time. Thank you.

Thank you. Shaver Clark.

Welcome, Mr. Clark. Thank you.

Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the board. My name is Taylor Clark, a resident of Wanchese in Dare County. Local reporting shows that nearly 50 flock safety license plate readers across this county, which, as iterated earlier, is one of the most densest deployments per capita in North Carolina. These cameras from a private company record vehicles and feed the data into a searchable network, and most of us were never informed or asked before they went up. I have three questions that still lack clear answers, perhaps will be answered today in the presentation. How much do these systems cost taxpayers each year? Where does the money come from, a grant or otherwise? and which officials voted to approve this contract and under what open process. Local law enforcement has said that these cameras take point-in-time photos of plates and vehicle details and store the data for only 30 days, require a case number for searches and audit these searches, a pamphlet seemingly provided by Flock Safety itself that is now posted on a county website, makes similar claims, calls privacy concerns myths, and states that FLOC does not sell customer data or compile it into a national database, that the community owns the data 100% and only the local agency decides who to share it with. But in practice, FLOC operates a national network. Local departments, including the sheriff's office here, have stated that they share data with other state and federal agencies on a case-by-case basis. Once sharing is enabled, plate data collected here can be searched by agencies well beyond our county. Even though the cameras take only point-in-time images and do not continuously track vehicles, a dense network of them will allow reconstruction of movements over time. The Supreme Court in Carpenter v. The United States held that detailed location tracking can violate the Fourth Amendment. courts are not uniform in this decision yet, although Flock seems to state that it is, as well as a federal case called Schmidt versus the City of Norfolk, which challenges dense networks of license plate readers requiring a warrant, is still on appeal in the Fourth Circuit, and as I'm sure you're aware, the Fourth Circuit is also What covers North Carolina, so the constitutional questions remain unsettled. Supporters often point to these systems catching stolen cars, but these AI systems are not infallible In Toledo, Ohio, in 2024, a flock camera misread just one digit on a man's license plate and flagged it as stolen. Brandon Upchurch was stopped at gunpoint, bitten by a police dog, detained, and charged. The charges were later dropped, and he settled a lawsuit for $35,000. Similar errors have put other innocent people at risk. Officers in other places have also misused the system for personal reasons, including stalking. But one of my major personal concerns is that we are outsourcing core investigative work to a private multi-billion dollar company. Continuing to expand these systems risks making our local police dependent on private vendors. Once the departments rely on these private companies, proprietary cameras, software, and national network for leads and evidence, that capability becomes harder to replace, and they're potentially fully in control, even locally. We did not ask for this network. Public safety matters, but so do privacy, transparency, accuracy, and accountability to the people of Derrick County. So today, I URGE THIS BOARD TO DEMAND AT LEAST A FULL PUBLIC ACCOUNTING OF THE COSTS, THE CONTRACT, THE VOTES, AND DATA SHARING POLICIES. AND TO PAUSE ANY EXPANSION UNTIL FURTHER RESIDENTS, UNTIL RESIDENTS HAVE BEEN MEANINGFULLY HEARD. THANK YOU.

Welcome, Ms. Morgan.

Hey. I should have more coffee. Okay. Well, I'm not here to speak about the flock cameras, and I wasn't going to say anything until I heard Ms. Westcott speak. That was emotional. I think that moving those graves is just wrong, so I just want to jump on that. But I am here. My name is Katie Morgan, and I'm here today to voice my strong opposition to the pennies for parks tax increase that will be on our November ballot. And I have to ask this. Isn't this an all-Republican board of commissioners? then show us what fiscal responsibility looks like. Budget the money you already have. I see wasteful and unnecessary spending by this county all the time. I'm appalled that $20,000 has been set aside to convince us taxpayers to support raising our own taxes. Think about that. Just think about that. Y'all are using our tax dollars to convince us to give you more tax dollars. That's wild to me. And then there's the $400,000 being given to the Dara Housing Foundation to help with startup costs for its nonprofit. A nonprofit, mind you, that was created by many of the same exact people who were involved in trying to address our housing crisis with state funding. Funding that, as I understand it, ultimately had to be sent back because they couldn't figure out how to use it. But here we are, still throwing money at a sinking ship. And for what? And seriously, I can't... I can't stomach it when I think about it. I truly can't. Here's your answer to the housing problem. Pay your own employees more and let local businesses figure it out for themselves. The county government is not responsible for providing housing, period. We do need parks and rec improvements, but we don't need higher taxes to do it. We need better budgeting. I urge everyone to vote no in November on that tax increase. And it's not that I'm not interested in the rest of this meeting, but we will be leaving because I'm very proud of my four-year-old for hanging out this entire time. And she told me right before I came up here, she had to use the bathroom. So thank you for your time.

Next is John Amsbury.

Welcome, Mr. Amsbury.

Good morning, Mr. Chairman, commissioners, county manager, members of law enforcement, distinguished guests, and fellow citizens. My name is John Emsbury, a resident of Man's Harbor, and thank you for the opportunity to speak this morning. First, I'd like to start with this is not an argument against law enforcement. I will be touching on the flyout cameras. We all want effective tools to solve crimes and protect our community. My concern is a simple principle. When government power carries significant potential for abuse, it deserves the highest level of public scrutiny. Flock advertises license plate recognition and AI-assisted searching. Those capabilities may assist investigators, of course. However, my concern extends beyond license plates alone. Publicly available Flock patents describe much broader technical capabilities than those advertised or conveyed to us by members of law enforcement. This alone raises legitimate questions about how these technologies may evolve, what information they may be capable of collecting or aggregating over time. As an intelligence analyst, I can personally attest that a long-term record of a person's movement can reveal where they worship, where they seek medical care, who they associate with, their political affiliations, where they work, what time they sleep, where they spend their private lives. And that's not just location data. Furthermore, these data sets also feed into a larger system known as Palantir, which I can explain to you in greater detail at a later time. The broader trend raises concerns about network surveillance and cross-jurisdictional data sharing. When information collected here in Dare County may become accessible beyond our county, and citizens deserve to know who has access, under what authority, how long the data is retained, and what safeguards exist to prevent misuse. Unfortunately, documented cases across the country have shown surveillance systems can and have been improperly accessed for personal reasons by members of law enforcement. Now, I'm not suggesting every officer would misuse these tools, but what I am saying is good public policy definitely assumes the possibility for abuse and builds safeguards accordingly. This is ultimately a matter of public trust, and the sheriff serves the people of Dare County, and this board serves the people of Dare County. Both are accountable to voters, and a public surveillance vendor is not. Given that flock safety is under congressional investigation, and communities across this state, to include Greenville, Davidson County, and Asheville, as well as this country, are rethinking similar programs, and I ask this board to exercise the same caution. Therefore, I respectfully ask this board to terminate the county's participation in this flock program until the conclusion of the congressional investigation. IF THE BOARD IS NOT PREPARED TO DO SO TODAY, I RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT YOU IMMEDIATELY SUSPEND THE PROGRAM PENDING AN INDEPENDENT THIRD-PARTY AUDIT. THAT AUDIT SHOULD BE CONDUCTED BY AN ORGANIZATION WITH NO FINANCIAL OR CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS TO THE STATE, COUNTY, OR SURVEILLANCE VENDOR, CHOSEN THROUGH A TRANSPARENT PUBLIC PROCESS. THE SCOPE SHOULD INCLUDE HOW THE SYSTEM HAS BEEN USED, WHETHER SEARCH HAS FOLLOWED COUNTY POLICY AND APPLICABLE LAW, WHO ACCESSED THE DATA, AND WHETHER THE PUBLIC GOT COMPLETE AND ACCURATE INFORMATION BEFOREHAND. that audit should be approved publicly by the Board and the final report released to the public to the fullest extent permitted by law. I also ask this Board to consider the fiscal responsibility. These systems are not one-time purchases. They require ongoing subscription fees, maintenance, and future expenditures. And before committing additional taxpayer dollars, citizens deserve a full accounting of the total costs and an honest comparison of whether those same resources can provide greater public safety if invested elsewhere. Our constitutional rights should not grow weaker as technology grows stronger. The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article I, particularly Section 20 of the North Carolina Constitution, exists to place limits on government power. Now, Section 20 of the Article I of the North Carolina Constitution covers warrants. None of these cameras require warrants. Good government asks not only can we do something, but should we do it? And that question falls squarely within your duties as commissioners. Finally, please understand that we are here today exercising one of our most fundamental constitutional rights, the right to petition our government for the redress of grievances. We're doing so peacefully and respectfully because we believe these concerns are shared by many members of this community. If the people of Derrick County believe their concerns are not being addressed, our constitutional system provides peaceful and democratic means for civic participation and the ballot box. Thank you very much for your time.

Would anyone else like to speak at public comment? Yes, ma'am. Please state your name and where you're from.

What's up, Buttercups? My name is Melanie Borts Brewer, and I'm living in Kill Devil Hills. I'm here to kill the devil today, hopefully, with y'all doing what you're doing. But I'm a mom of three kids. I'm a business owner in our community. And I'm blown away that you all signed up for something and you didn't ask. And I kind of want to know, like there was a question back here. He wanted to know all of the different... He wants to know what's going on behind the flock cameras. But I kind of want to know what's lining y'all's pockets to have made that decision in the first place. I want to know why none of us were asked to be permanently surveilled. I want to know why we're living in America and it feels like China. I want to know how you guys can guarantee me that my children are not being stalked by stalkers because they want to go on a walk. They want to walk down the bike path in Kill Devil Hills that has flock cameras watching flock cameras. What is happening? Why do we have cameras watching cameras? Because you guys do know that when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. And these citizens in this community have stood back and watched you all abuse your power. And we have done it the democratic way of showing up to speak and to hold you all accountable. But the time is drawing near to find out that we are more flocked than freaking Raleigh and Charlotte. I didn't know that, but I sure as crap know that our crime rates are like nothing. Everybody in this community pretty much treats everybody else like family. There might be like, what, 1% to 5% bad people. And the stories I see go by on Facebook, the worst thing I saw last week was somebody embezzled $2,000. That's what you all got to report on? And you've got police force for, what, 450,000 people all year long. That's why when someone gets pulled over, three police show up to the pullover, not just one. You've got a crowd. That's our tax dollars working right there. Why do we got to pay? Can someone do the math? I didn't even bring my phone in here today. What is $3,500, which is supposedly the amount that each flock camera costs just to install? What is 3,500 times 52? Because that's what you took out of Deer County Pockets to put these cameras up. And then I know that y'all are on a subscription service because we own nothing and we will be happy. and be seen as criminals. I treat people as family when I walk down the street. Y'all's flock system treats us like criminals, like we're doing something wrong. And all of us are out here just trying to live our lives. We're trying to participate in society and do good societal things. And y'all want to call us criminals and track us from the moment we wake up in the morning until the moment we go to sleep at night. And I can tell you what, I'm done. I am done. I spoke in Kill Devil Hills. I'm speaking here. And I'm going to call to action for the folks in Wanchese, Mans Harbor, Currituck County. Them boys are waiting with their sawzalls. And if you want to take these cameras down now, and save yourself the funding, what's a sawzall? That's how these people are removing the cameras. They're sawing them off and dragging them out and they're gone. And I want to bring to the record, all of the gold, all of the copper, all of the things inside those flock hammers, they're dismantling them and selling them for profit. So if you guys want to get your fund, no wait, let's rephrase. If we want to get our funding back from the flock corporation that you all signed us up for, I suggest you all take them down, get y'all's refund. I hope you saved your receipts. I don't know what you're doing signing contracts, but I hope that you all get your receipts because them boys are going to be taking them down and they're just waiting. They're waiting for the democratic process to happen. So I encourage you guys to take some action. I also encourage you to not pick up hundreds of years old dead bodies. Like, what are you all doing? This is what we're here to talk about? I took time out of my day, my kids waiting in the car with our puppy so that I can come here and make sure that our voices are heard. So once again, when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty, and I ask everybody to stand up and do something about this and say, no effing more. Get the flock out of here. Thank you all. Thank you all for being here. We appreciate you. Have a great day.

Apparently you've got to sign up to speak. I didn't realize that.

What's your name? Andrew Jenkins. Thank you, Mr. Jenkins.

You bet. I am a resident of Manteo. And I've just come to speak just a moment about the flock situation. I'm a 17-year federal employee. I've got about 32 years of both public and private service. I've served in Afghanistan. So I've got a little bit of skin in the game, and I'm not just yelling at the screen watching YouTube. So the flock situation, obviously we've got a lot of people here who are well-versed on it, and I won't reiterate a lot of their points. But if you, the first thing to mention is that we're all in support of law enforcement and actually having a safe community. We all deserve to be safe, which is what the brochure says, but we all deserve our privacy as well. with respect to our constitutional rights. But let me just mention a few things that weren't brought up before. One of those is that these flock cameras are leaning forward in the AI technology. So there's predictive technologies that are installed in the cameras. And what that does, predictive technology is not just reactive to crime, it's predictive to crime. So if there's a situation where it's going to learn habits and situations and mannerisms, it might actually be able to determine that you will commit a crime rather than you have committed a crime. So predictive technology is part of the design. So trying to put guardrails, controls, security on these cameras is impossible. That's how they're designed. The architectural reality is that the system cannot be reformed. You'll hear proposals for local policy compromises shorter data retention periods, interagency sharing restrictions, or strict use policies. These proposals misunderstand the fundamental architecture of the product. Mass surveillance is not an accidental side effect of the FLOX platform. It is the business model and the core technical design. It's a Trojan horse. It's a creeping menace. And if we want to have a community that we all have our privacy and our rights, I'm not even saying to do a review. I'm just saying to reject it and go with something else. So I just appreciate your time, and I appreciate the community's time. I think that it's a worthwhile cause. One of the things is that no one's making these decisions. That's why it's a Trojan horse, because you're going to see down the road, if you hold it up against the Constitution and through the Supreme Court, these things are going to start to get rolled back. You are seeing a lot of things get rolled back right now, specifically in Florida, which wasn't mentioned as well. They're rejecting it statewide. So I would just encourage just a little bit of insight and research. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, sir. Right behind you first. Yes, sir.

My name is Charlie Parker. Today I was ultimately surprised when I walked in, I forgot to sign in because there were a number of people in line waiting to come today. That's unusual. Bob, you brought up 9-11, and Chief, like prior years, I will be there. 9-11 is personal to me. My classmate Brian McGee never came home. Twelve other people who graduated from my high school never came home. And for you folks who have never seen or been to the Twin Towers, you have no idea of the scope of how big they were. If you were fishing 40 miles off Manhattan on a clear day, you could see the tops of the towers. One day, a rainy, miserable, cold day, I was volunteered by my wife to be one of the drivers of her Girl Scout troop to the Twin Towers. We get in the first elevator, and the girls thought they were being shot off in a rocket. The elevators are so fast. The last elevator door opened up, and it was beautiful sky.

No clouds, sun.

We were above the weather. The girls looked down and saw the storm below them. That's how big those buildings were. You can't grasp it. The second reason why I'm here is I would like you folks to rearrange your agenda and have one last item. We've just heard people talk about the flock cameras. The next is going to be a presentation about the flock cameras. But there's no ability today for the people here, the citizens, to give their input to you and get input back from you. A number of municipalities have at the end a question and answer period. I think our Board of Commissioners should have a question and answer period so that when you are discussing things, you can get immediate feedback from the citizens. I see no reason why you wouldn't go along with that. Thank you.

Hi, y'all. My name is Jason Fleck. I'm from Collington Harbor. And he basically just summed it up for me, too. I was going to say, like, it's kind of, counterintuitive to have a presentation and have us give our comments beforehand and not afterwards. And everyone's concerned with y'all reviewing the flock cameras and having an audit or something. It's physically impossible because y'all have no control of the flock cameras. The corporation that y'all signed up for has the control and they will not entertain anything y'all say. So as everyone else said, we just need to reject the flock cameras and all surveillance. It's Axon as well. They do the body cameras for the police. Supposedly they are now the next flock cameras that y'all are going to be sold.

And as well, Palantir, all y'all need to look into Palantir. All y'all's ring cameras, everything is all tied into Palantir.

So everyone's worried about flock abusing their rights. It's Palantir. And it's amazing what we give up for convenience and fear. We give up all our rights, basically, and then everyone comes back here and is upset about it. But y'all need to wake up. These flock cameras, phone, everything's all tied to Palantir.

All your doorbell cameras, it's all mass surveillance.

So just one more thing. Y'all need to deflock their county or all mass surveillance, really. And I'm curious on who orchestrated this all as well. I want to find out which one of y'all actually was in charge of signing the contract. I think this was good for our county. So thank you for your time. Have a good one.

Good morning. I'm Catherine Fagan. I think some of you already know me. I have a few things. One, moving these graves, totally wrong. I read about it and was appalled. Hearing Ms. Westcott made it even more real. Also, with the master plan for the airport, and I live on Airport Road, so... It's very personal to me. How come when you go to the airport, the Deer County Airport, you cannot get a copy of the master plan? When I click on that, it says I don't have access. I would like to see the master plan for the airport, because that is going to absolutely directly impact me, and it should be online for everybody. You know, people who are impacted by their families' graves being moved, for example. So that was one issue. The other thing is the flock cameras. We should just totally deflock. We shouldn't reconsider how the contract is drafted. Get rid of it. We don't need that kind of surveillance. It's absolutely creepy to think that you are being followed wherever you go around this county and in this jurisdiction. And it's absolutely a warrantless search. And why aren't there not HIPAA violations involved in that as well? You should not know when I'm going to the doctor. I don't want you to know. And I don't want law enforcement to know. It's none of your damn business. But yet that's what we have going on. They will know when I go to the doctors. They will know what hospital I'm going to. They will know what office I'm going to. They will know who my friends are. And even if I'm doing nothing wrong, it doesn't matter. I didn't sign up to be watched. And the CEO, Langley, of this organization, when you try and look him up, he is blurred. You can't see his plates. You can't see his home. So if he doesn't think privacy is important, why is he blurred? You try and say it's for safety, but Ben Franklin said those who would give up essential liberties to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. I don't feel safer with them. I feel very much unsafe. And sheriff dowdy was up here earlier and he made a comment and I have the ultimate respect for sheriff dowdy, as he knows. But he made a side comment that said he has a son who is in law school that he hopes he goes to the right side, not the dark side. I believe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, Sheriff, but I believe he's inferring that he would become a prosecutor and not a defense counsel or something else. Anyway, but the right side of the law is the constitutional side, and warrantless searches warrantless searches are not the right side of the law and these flock cameras are nothing but warrantless searches you know an officer if he wants to put a tracker on a car has to go get a warrant has to has to apply for a warrant which is quite a process. But with these, you don't need a warrant because they are going constantly all the time. And they're on people who have no knowledge that it's even going on. And I'm looking over my shoulder all the time. I'm not doing anything wrong, but it's just creepy to be constantly stalked by your government. So I already told you about the seal. If you look at what other jurisdictions, I think this has already been mentioned. I'm trying to actually cut it short because everybody's kind of said what I would have said. Other jurisdictions that have had it are already deflocking. Asheville has. There's a big city in Arizona. I think Tempe, Arizona has done it. Florida of all places. California of all places. When California and Florida and Texas agree, we maybe need to be taking a look at this, because this is not one side. This is bipartisan. This is tripartisan. This is the people do not want to be surveilled 24-7, period. We want to have our liberty, and we want to feel safe, and this does not do that. This is just the opposite. Thank you.

Good morning, commissioners. Good morning. Thank you for hearing me today. What's your name?

My name is... Sorry, one second here. I do know my name. Good morning, commissioners. My name is Anderson Weeks, and I'm a proud, lifelong resident of Dare County. The Outer Ranks has always felt like a sanctuary to me, somewhere slightly separated from the rest of the world's craziness. Whenever I was away from home, a feeling of comfort and relief washed over me as I crossed the bridge to return. I think a lot of people in this room know the feeling I'm talking about. My mom says that the feeling hits her when she smells the salt air. I always believed that no matter how much it changed here, as long as we didn't get washed into the ocean, I would still feel that magic as I crossed the bridge. Excuse me, I'm getting a little sick here. I always believed this, that is, until I drove across the bridge and was greeted by a flock automated license plate reader. I started looking into ALPRs when I realized I was boxed in by them. I, along with most Southern Choice residents, cannot drive to one single store, restaurant, healthcare provider, or school without passing at least one ALPR. At first, I didn't know what they were. My wife and I would discuss them on the drive home. Surely, they're temporary. maybe to study traffic? We thought. There's no way they set up all these cameras without engaging the public, right? Wrong. I quickly learned that every AOPR I passed stored a photo of my vehicle in a database, not my local police department's database, but a nationwide database managed by a private for-profit company. For Flock, more profit means more surveillance indefinitely. This indicates that we have no reason to believe that this will slow down anytime soon. If we don't act, we should expect to see more surveillance continuing to be normalized, which means more cameras along our roads and maybe some of Flock's new, quote, alpha drones, which some American law enforcement agencies have already begun using. We have a presentation coming up shortly in support of ALPRs. I appreciate that our presenters and most of the police officers who advocate for FLOC are good people. They likely support ALPRs because in their daily life in law enforcement, they see the good outweighing the bad. However, I respectfully ask these officers, along with everyone else, to consider deeply the costs that could come along with our newfound surveillance state as it continues to grow. The slide deck, which is available on the county website, appears to be created by FLOC for North Carolina law enforcement. I saw some misleading statements in it, so I would like to proactively discuss them now. First, the slides state that AOPRs only capture a point in time. They don't track vehicles continuously. What this means is they don't track you every step of the way between one camera and the next. However, the density of these cameras does enable effectively continuous tracking. As soon as you pass two of them on a single drive, It's clear your travel can be mapped by the time you pass them and the distance, the distance and time between the photos. Therefore, you've effectively been tracked continuously. Second, the slides state that ALPRs don't track people or show police where people go, and they do not allow for the search of people. The Kildava Hills Police said something similar at the council meeting a couple weeks ago. ALPRs track license plates, not people. I don't know about everyone else here, but my license plate does not drive itself down the road. It's incredibly rare for anyone else to drive my car. Therefore, by tracking my license plate and allowing law enforcement to search for it, Flock has tracked me, a person, and Flock has enabled others to search for me, a person, contrary to what the slides would tell you. They also state that nothing permits Flock to sell customer data. This is technically true. They don't directly sell the customer data. We technically own it. However, they do reserve the rights to share it, and they do sell access to the data. Every time law enforcement signs a contract opting into the national data sharing, they are effectively paying not just for their cameras, but for Flock's broader database. Just yesterday, the New York Times podcast, The Daily, said, quote, I asked Flock CEO, Garrett Langley, about their data sharing. And he said the mass majority of their customers opt in for the national network. Like, that is what's appealing, that you have eyes on the road everywhere, not just in your community, but in your whole state and in your whole country, end quote. Flock knows that they are effectively selling the data, but they intentionally provide training and marketing, like the slides we're about to see, in order to mislead us into thinking otherwise. So, Flock and Can I go like a minute over this? I'll be quick. FLOC and law enforcement tell us that ALPRs don't track vehicles continuously, but we know that what they do is effectively the same. They say ALPRs don't track people or allow for searching people, but we know that's exactly what is happening every time a vehicle is logged or searched. They say they don't sell ALPR data, but we know they do sell access to the data. Knowing how misleading those statements are, we must consider one more issue. Flock is actively and intentionally providing training, such as these slides coming up, to mislead our law enforcement and to train them, likely unknowingly, to mislead us. Flock knows that tracking people is un-American. They know that we will not accept it as long as we have a choice. Rather than changing course, they are working hard to prevent us from understanding the truth so that they can continue expanding their business. This intentional misleading of the public should demonstrate to all of us why we cannot trust them to safely administer this massive surveillance network.

Thank you, Mr.

Weeks. I humbly ask that all DARE County Commissioners act on behalf of your constituents in any way you can to remove FOC ALPRs completely from our county. Thank you.

Our other public comment here this morning. Yes, ma'am.

Good morning, and thank you all for your service to this community, and thank you for listening to us today. I am on the deflocked air. I am not a fan. I'm a resident. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Rachel Bradley from Kitty Hawk, North Carolina. I'm completely opposed. I was on my way yesterday to pick my grandkids up from school yesterday, yesterday afternoon, and I passed camera after camera. I then left from the Kitty Hawk Elementary School and drove to Food Line. And as I turned there by downtown bank to go into Food Line, there's four of them right there, four cameras. And when I say right there, I mean from me to the door, there was the two. Just past that door, there was two more. So in between town bank and Food Line turn in, four cameras. It's nonsense, and people are tired of being watched. I am tired of being watched. I'm tired of going out my door, walking down the road to the skate park with my grandkids, and being on camera. It's enough. It's enough. People don't want it. We need to deflock there. You need to listen to the people in this community. and to what our, I mean, this is our constitutional right is not to be mass surveillance. You know, people are so worried about these data centers. Everybody's worried about all these data centers. Why do you think we need them? We've been running on phones and computers and networking for quite some time now with no major huge data centers It's bad enough that we don't even hardly have any farmland left anywhere. There's that for all the building that goes on. And all of that is out of control as it is. But enough is enough. And people are sick and tired of being walked all over. We're tired of our liberties being taken from us, our freedoms being taken from us. That is not what this country was founded on. It is not what this country is founded on. It's not what our forefathers died for. It's not what the people that made this country wanted. And we don't want it either. And we hope that you're taking it seriously. And we hope you're going to deflock. Because enough is enough. And I just want to say on a side note, I agree. Those graves being moved over at Manio Airport that have been sitting there for hundreds and hundreds of years, the fact that that's even on the table is absurd. If that was my family members, I would fight you tooth and nail. I don't come to a lot of these. I'm not big on politics, but I'm very big on my liberty. Very big on my liberty and my freedoms. Thank you.

And props to Sheriff Dowdy.

I worked with him years ago at Village Realty. Years and years ago. I remember him coming in every day. The happiest person in the room. The most positive person in the room. I have voted for you every year. I was sad to see you leave this year. Thank you, ma'am. I appreciate that. And I appreciate your service to this community. And I mean that wholeheartedly.

You're sweet.

But I hope you take us seriously. And I thank you for your time.

Mr. Good morning, sir.

Mr. Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity to address this topic with you guys. My name is Richard Beale, by the way. Thank you. Everyone here has brought up so many points that could be rehashed over and over again about civil liberties, civil rights, and how these cameras take that away. I can't even begin to explain how much pride I have in this country. The people that fought for it, the people that continue to fight for it, and what they fight for and what they give their lives for is our right to come up here and protest what is going on right now. This is a free country. It's free because we fight for it. And it'll stay free because we will continue to fight for it. Our police, no ill will towards any of the police. They do a fantastic job. And honestly, I think that the money being spent on those cameras would be better funded in the community, in law enforcement. in education, infrastructure, things that could benefit locally. I don't think we need private corporations dictating who's a criminal and who's not, because they don't know. They're going to use software to assume that everyone is a criminal, even your mother, your grandmother, your children, your children's children. This is the beginning of the stripping away of what makes America, America. And what I would ask you guys to do is to take into consideration that they say these are plate readers. Why are they in places where there's pedestrian traffic? Because they do facial recognition. They do all kinds of things that aren't in the brochure. They're not transparent with you. They're not transparent with us. And they're never going to be. This is strictly set up for them to make profit at all of our expenses, yours included. So please, deflock. No action. No more of this mess. Let's bring government back to government and not to private corporations. Thank you.

Any other public comment this morning? Seeing no hands here, is there any public comment in Buxton? Any public comment from Buxton?

Yes. Pamela Lassiter.

Good morning, everyone.

Thank you. My name is Pamela Lassiter, and I am the new chair of the Frisco Civic Association, and we are pleased to announce that we received our 501c3 status last month. We look forward to working with the commissioners, local businesses, county officials, and all other community organizations to address the needs and opportunities in our community. We also would like to thank all those who've supported us on this journey to establish the Frisco Civic Association this year. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Ms. Lester.

Any other public comment from Buxton?

No further comment.

That, Mr. Chairman, we close the public comment.

All right. County manager, we're going to recess for 10 minutes. Because of the length of the. H.R. 1 and state budget impacts in Dare County. Item 5 was going to be a lengthy presentation. And out of respect for those who made public comment this morning, I've asked the sheriff to come forward and we'll reverse item 5 and 6 so that we can handle his presentation at this time.

Good morning once again. With me is Tyler Doughty, and he will be answering your questions because he is one of the ones that has done most of the work with this system. But I'm going to turn around just for a second and thank a couple of y'all. Thank you very much. I do not remember you. I apologize for that, but I do remember. I know exactly where you are and why we didn't know each other, and I thank you for that. And you too, ma'am. It means a lot. It also means a lot to me to think that – You know, you people talk about law enforcement in Derrick County like you do, and I'd like to think that is because of some of the work that we have done over the last 16 years and all the ones that were before me that were doing that. We do have a great sheriff's office. We have great local law enforcement, and we do a very good job, I think. We're not perfect, and we will never be. I assure you that. But thank you for coming, and that's what this country is made of. And if we don't adhere to that, then there's something wrong with us, and we surely are lost. All we are is presenting. Obviously, it's a tool for us. We like what we have been able to do with it, but we understand where you are too. Don't holler at me and The one lady that said, I don't know if she said that the cameras were the devil or I was the devil, but I promise you, I am not the devil.

But I can be really, really ugly if I have to be.

So we'll go from there. Thank you, Mr. Woodard. Thank you, Sheriff. My apologies. And this is just, like I said, I'm going to go through it briefly. He'll answer any questions that y'all have, okay? Hopefully he can answer any and all of them. Automated license plate readers, Alper. Under GS 20-183.30, operated within the statute requirements of North Carolina. The criminal justice officers using this technology to locate missing or endangered persons, conduct investigations, and make arrests. They were actually implemented in Dare Canyon in 2014. At that time, they were called Leonardo's L-SAC. Operated two locations with a total of four cameras until 2023. In July of 2023, we begin phase one with flock safety. There were four locations, eight cameras. Wright Memorial Bridge in Kitty Hawk, Collington Road at Veterans Drive, Highway 64, Man's Harbor Road in Man's Harbor, and Highway 12 and 1243 in Nags Head. In July of 2025, we went to phase two, three locations, six cameras, Highway 345, Skyco Road, Wanchese, Highway 12, Pamlico Court, and Harbor Road in Avon, Highway 64, 264, Russell, Triford Road, and Patty Lane in Manteo.

Total cameras are 14. Excuse me, Sheriff. One of the public speakers emphatically stated you have 52 cameras.

Now, Mr. Ross, I can tell you that we have 14. But there are local agencies that have just as many cameras as we do. So that would be the answer to that. Cameras take still shots of vehicles, license plates that pass by in their window of view. No video recordings are capable with our cameras. Cameras are not capable of facial recognition. Data retention period is 30 days, and the total users on our system is 70 that have access to it. Users with search capability is 29. And this enables you to have the ability to search license plate or vehicle identifiers within the system. The only ones in our office that can do that are administration, investigation, and patrol supervisors. Search requirements. Offense type, offense reason, and case number. Standard operation of roles. Telecommunications and patrol. We're able to log on and observe alerts from hot lists. That's NCIC and NCMEC. When an alert is received, users are required to verify the validity of alert prior to enforcement action per policy. Investigators and patrol supervisors, they are able to search camera systems in accordance with general statute and policy. This is used to locate missing or endangered persons, conduct investigations, and to make arrests. Admin, system audits, updated daily within the system and reviewed monthly by admin. System sharing, only administrative controls who have access to which cameras and all of the above. Hot list, NCIC, National Criminal Information Center, and the NCMEC, which is the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Over the last 30 days here, As of 8-28-26, 324,884 unique vehicles detected, 42 total searches, 110 NCIC alerts, and of those alerts, stolen license plate were 36, stolen vehicles 35, protection orders 22, active warrants 12, Gang or suspected terrorists, three. Shared networks. In-state, we share with 204. And out-of-state, 1,325. That's different agencies. Who has access to the? I got three. And if this doesn't answer your question, just hold me up, okay? Shared with us in-state, two. Okay. Okay. 204 in-state and 1,428 out-of-state. We share nothing with federal agencies. Zero. That's what we did. Information sharing. It allows us to search database for our suspect vehicles on their systems. This information is available through our transparency portal, which is active now. Success stories. The murder at Avalon Pier. Witness on scene had partial tag and description of the vehicle. With the flock, we were able to identify the correct model and license plate. Other law enforcement databases used to verify owner and operator. Alerted when the vehicle was coming back into Dare County, allowing officers to locate and arrest the suspect. Multiple stolen vehicles located. One specific incident out of Washington County where a stolen vehicle was stopped. Multiple firearms were recovered from the suspects after the vehicle and a foot chase. Death by distribution, drug trafficking, larcenies, wanted persons, and missing persons have all been, we have used the system for that. Able to identify vehicle of a male trespassing at Manio Elementary School. And if you remember that, we weren't able to know where he went, but we knew where that he didn't leave the county, which gave us a pretty good head start to figure out where he was. And the fact that he was doing court was a little bit easier to find. He was right in our house and we didn't know it. Now, that is it in a nutshell. And if you have specific questions, he knows a whole lot more than I know and will be glad to answer any of them you have. Thank you very much. Any questions from those?

One more time, your name, sir? Sorry, my name is Tyler Dowdy.

Hello, Tyler. Hello. Tyler, this packet that Flock Camera has provided us, I'm assuming they provided you all with the same packet?

Yes, sir, they did.

Do you concur with everything in this packet?

I do. It is presented by Flock, but all the information that's there is true and factual, and it was easier to use their resource than create our own and duplicate the same facts. So on the myths and facts page that...

Let me see if I can find the page.

I'm sorry, Commissioner. Are we going to go through the slides on the presentation?

We are not. That was just handouts for you all.

Myth. ALPRs violate the Fourth Amendment. I don't believe it's the right of a private company or enterprise to determine what violates or does not violate constitutional law. Would you concur with that?

I understand what you're saying. At this point in time, they are legal in the state, and that's why we're operating that according to the general statute that the sheriff read off to you.

I understand. And as you're aware, as we convene this day, there's people convening all over the country getting rid of these flock cameras as fast as including the entire state of Florida was just directed by the Florida Department of Transportation to remove all cameras.

Right. It is a hot topic of concern being discussed nationwide. I do agree.

Do you understand from a perspective of an American citizen why this might be a concern?

Giving up any rights that we have is something that nobody's interested in. We as law enforcement are just using this as a tool to hopefully make Dare County a safer place.

I believe you all do an excellent job, but even back in the day, Frank Cahoon didn't even carry a firearm, did he? Times have changed. He'd just knock you in the head with a stump. And the crime rate was pretty low back then, too. I understand the framework of FLOC and the overall concept of a safer environment. However, built with privacy in mind, I disagree with. I do believe that they are direct violations of the Fourth Amendment because a camera stationed on a public roadway seat People have to understand constitutional law and the aspect of when you're on that highway, you do not have the rights protected. So them scanning your license plate is 100% constitutionally legal. They are allowed anything you can see with the public eye in a public area, they are allowed to enhance it using whatever technology is available. However, as we know, those flock cameras are stationed on highways. They undoubtedly scan across the road and then observe people's private property, businesses and other things. People have houses up and down the road in Nags Head. I'm not so certain that there isn't a flock camera overlooking somebody's private property. Now, people are protected under the Fourth Amendment to property rights inside of the vehicle. When you're going underneath the vehicle, if it takes a picture and can see inside your vehicle, that is also violated your rights because, as you are aware, your vehicle is private property and you do need a warrant to search. So there are some underlying aspects of flock cameras that very well could violate the constitutional rights of our constituents.

Right. That's the argument. It's correct, I think. Currently, they're being operated under the plain view doctrine because they are on a public roadway. And I'm aware of that. You know, these cameras, the 14 that we own, do the job that we can't afford to put deputies at these points where these cameras are to monitor traffic. And they do so alerting us of when people with warrants or stolen cars or all the other hot list hits that you were made aware of are entering the county. I understand.

but thou without sin shall cast the first stone. Obviously, I believe our sheriff's department here is one of the best in the entire nation.

Thank you very much.

However, I do not believe that law enforcement are beyond scrutiny, and I also believe that there has been misuse of this program throughout the country and the nation by law enforcement.

Mr. Creek, we're not arguing that fact at all. We don't have a penny in the fight. That's why we're here. We're answering questions to you. It's not an opinion from us as to whether we should keep them or not. That's apparently your job because that's why we're here. That's why these people are here. So we can't answer those questions and make it. The only thing we're following is the law. That's what we do. That's the reason we put them up. The court's going to make a decision on whether it's legal or not legal. I guarantee you that, and it ain't going to be long before they do it. I wish they had done it. It would have been nice if they had done it today. We have no problem when they do that. We will certainly take them down. If you vote to take them down today, they'll come down just that quick. Have all the respect. That's why you have your job. That's why we have our job. We do exactly what you said. You set the rules for us. And if it's against the state law or federal law, it makes a difference. But if that's what you're going to do, that's fine. We don't have a problem. But we're not here standing up saying, we're just telling you what they do and why they do good for us. Now, with the bad things that come along with that, that all these people have talked about, some of that may be factual to what they think, and some of it may not be. But we don't know. But the court will make a decision on that, I guarantee you. But it's not us, okay? It's not us against them or us against you. We're all in this together, boss man. And that's what we're trying to do, okay? So, you know, it's not our opinion. We're not trying to make it an opinion of ours. So we're not trying to bring it down to that point. You know what I mean? Yes, sir.

Good.

Excuse me.

Go ahead. Just real quick. Yes, sir. Both of you can answer this. I'd like to hear from both of you. So professionally, you're of the opinion that we need these and they serve a great purpose.

They serve a purpose. And I told you what they had done here. In the country, they have done a lot of other things. We've had no bad results from what we have done here. You know, so they work for us and they're illegal, but if you make it illegal or don't want them, that's, that's you, you do what you need to do.

So we both are of the professional opinion that we should have them.

Yeah. I can tell you that they have tremendously helped us as far as the law enforcement use that we have for sure. Okay.

Thank you. Uh, uh, commissioner creep, were you finished?

I am finished up, and I just want to reiterate how much I respect Mr. Dowdy and his entire department. I think they do an excellent job. Thank you, Commissioner.

Tyler, I got a couple of questions to try to, well, not as much so for myself as for the public, some of the questions they ask.

Yes, sir.

So we have 14 cameras.

Yes, sir.

Are they, something's been said, at least I'd Or they were like $3,500 a piece, is that right?

Mr. They're $3,000 a piece.

Mr. All right. So it's even less now than what I, you know. Somebody stated we're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars that could be spent more efficiently somewhere else. And we have, our board approves the budget from different department heads, and this was a request from the sheriff. 14 cameras at $3,000 is not several hundred thousand dollars. I mean, you do the math. Yes, sir. It's less than, what, $4,200?

I mean, $42,000. Right, roughly.

Yes, sir. So that will certainly answer that question for the person that asked that. Do you have any idea, Sheriff or Tyler, what percentage of, drop in crime we've seen since implemented in 2014? I don't think we'd be able to put it to a percentage.

We have been able to capture vehicles, you know, wanted suspects, stolen vehicles, stolen plates. The sheriff read off to you the NCIC alerts and it is under a 30-day period, but just in that amount of time where you're able to see stolen license plate alerts were 36, stolen vehicle alerts were 35, Vehicles whose registered owners had active warrants were 12. That doesn't necessarily mean that we had 35 stolen vehicles, separate vehicles come into the county. It just means that that same vehicle or multiple stolen vehicles crossed the path of at least one or more of these flock cameras during its time in Derry County. But that's information that we wouldn't be able to know unless an officer was riding behind that vehicle entering the tag on its own, and then being alerted that it was stolen.

Okay. Doug, you mentioned, you know, back in 2014, there were four cameras installed, and then you mentioned 2025, there were six additional.

Plus 2023, three segments. Yeah, three segments. 14, 23, 25.

Yes, sir, that's correct, 2014.

So it's a total of 14.

Can you tell me those strategic locations again? They're not, one lady mentioned there's an intersection and this is not, this is not an unincorporated there. It's in Kitty Hawk. Okay. Four cameras. Southern shores. There's four cameras. We don't have four cameras on top of each other anywhere. Is that correct?

No. So the only place we'd have a two camera, you know, two different, I can't, they may in Southern shores. No, I understand that. I'm talking about Derrick County, 14 cameras. To read what comes into the dual lanes, there are two cameras like that, what's coming in and going out. So that's 40.

At every location that we have, we have cameras that cover the opposite lanes of travel. Got it. So both lanes are covered.

So the towns that have these other flock cameras... Are they in sync with our cameras? As one gentleman said, you'll show up on our camera and you maybe go a mile or so down the road and it will show up on them. Are they linked like that?

We do share permissions where the other towns can access our cameras and us the same. Okay.

All right. I may have some more questions, but it's all I have right now.

Commissioner Ross. Yes. Thanks, guys. This is really, really helpful stuff, especially the statistics, obviously very good. Twenty-nine personnel, Sheriff, you had stated, have search capability. Have any of those 29... been identified as misusing that search capability for personal purposes or personal gain, personal uses that would have been contrary to policy in the Sheriff's Department? No, sir.

They have not. Okay. And I'm not sure what the outcome will be with that. They may not be here anyway at that point.

Yes, I understand. One more time, those stats. 324,000, yeah, the sheriff read them earlier, which I found very helpful. I was trying to note them down very quickly.

This is just 324,884 unique vehicles detected, 42 total searches, and 110 NCIC alerts.

And, Tyler, I think just as the plates passed and the 12, what were the 12?

Twelve were active warrants.

Active warrants. So as you've characterized it, it is a tool. In the toolkit that you as law enforcement utilize every day, it sounds to me like it's more of a tool to secure a quick and prompt arrest of potential crimes that are in process or have just recently taken process. And you did reference that the shooting at Avon Pier the cameras were able to assist in apprehending the subject or the suspect in that event? Yes, sir, that's correct. Avalon.

Okay.

Okay. So you have, so there's 50 cameras in all of Dare County.

We don't know that. We don't know that. I'm not, we don't know that. We don't know that. We don't know that. That was a web video.

So there's 14 of them that are yours. The rest of them, they belong to the municipalities, correct? So I'm concerned with unincorporated dairy because that's what we have control over. I understand. Yes, ma'am. So of those 14, when you got, well, and you said you share information. with the municipalities. What other organizations do you share that information with? Are you sharing it with federal authorities? Are you sharing it with?

We just tell you we don't share anything with federal authorities at all.

So when you get that information, do you put it into a database?

It does that. Right. So the cameras take a picture, and then that picture for whoever that we decide to share with, which is on here as well. Right, we share with 204 agencies within the state and 1,325 out-of-state agencies. So essentially that they do have access to the, if they have a particular suspect vehicle that they're looking for and they do a search query for nationwide cameras and we share with them, then if that vehicle crossed the path of one of our cameras, it would alert them that their suspect vehicle is crossing one of our cameras.

Well, that means there's over 1,500 other organizations, state and federal, that have access.

Not federal. Right, no federal.

Oh, you said 204?

204 within the state and then 1,325 out of state. So that's the surrounding states.

Oh, okay, surrounding states.

State agencies and other municipalities.

I understand. Are they all government agencies?

Yes.

When you are looking at this, who audits the system? Do you have someone that, and are we, like how is it monitored and audited? How much information is allowed to go back out to the public as far as how you're doing that?

To the public, it's a sensitive information because it's all criminal information that we're using this tool to investigate. So as far as what's able to be released to the public, Not much. As far as the auditing goes, myself, Sergeant Johnson, and then Chief Deputy Derringer are the admin over our FLOC account to run audits on the users that we have with the search capabilities.

I might have more questions. By the way, you're doing a very good job.

Thank you very much.

He's doing good, Dad.

Anybody else have any questions? Yeah, I got a couple.

And these are questions that have come up from the keyboard warriors. Are you interested? I don't know what that is, Steve. Keyboard warriors. Keyboard warriors like on Facebook, social media.

Social media. Monday morning meetings.

Those are people.

I'm sorry, ma'am. Yes. Thank you, Steve. Is this system, are you interested in how many times Jane Doe goes to the grocery store? No, sir. Does it flag any time Jane Doe goes to the grocery store? No, sir. How does it create a flag?

Excuse me a minute. Those of you in the audience have had an opportunity to speak at public comment. I would request that you have the same respect that this board had for you when you spoke. We don't need to have sly comments from the audience right now. We're actually trying to make some serious decisions regarding these flock cameras. And we would ask that you show us the same respect that we showed you. Thank you.

The President So, to reiterate my question, what does it take for you to flag a vehicle in the system? Mr.

They have to be involved in a criminal investigation of some sort or be a missing or endangered person. So when we run for anything, right, whether it's a license plate, we can search by the specific plate, or just like the sheriff talked about at Avalon Pier, that initial day when law enforcement responded, a witness on the scene was able to describe a vehicle and give a partial tag. Now their make and model that they described when we were on scene was incorrect, but through FLOT we were able to run a black sedan. And with that partial tag, and it identified that vehicle, we're able to go into different law enforcement avenues, tools, databases to be able to run and confirm that tag, and then that led us to our suspect.

Okay. Now, if you're looking for, say, an Amber Alert that has the tag, number on the Amber Alert. Yes, sir. Is that presented into the system so that when that vehicle comes by that camera, it automatically alerts you that vehicle's there?

Right. Our users, when logged in, and our telecommunicators are our main source of that information. When they receive that alert that a vehicle such as an Amber Alert comes into the county or passes by a camera, they're able to verify that that tag is indeed matching an Amber Alert and then broadcast that information out to the units that are in the area.

Okay. And I do know... I don't know the exact number, but I know there's over 2,000 AMRA alerts that have been tracked and cases have been cleared due to this system?

That I cannot comment on, no, sir.

Another question that was brought up was if you go through one flock camera and then you go through the second flock camera and they know the distance and time and say there's a 35 mile an hour speed limit and you made that track in 40 miles an hour. Is it going to flag you and send you a speeding ticket? No, sir. These cameras are not for speed enforcement. They don't have that capability. Right. Is there any way to have this system and not share any information with any other agency? Is there any way to have it and not share it?

There is. We could. It kind of defeats the purpose of the entire network database because, in turn, we use other databases, the other shared agencies, to conduct our criminal investigations.

Right. So that would cripple our system?

Essentially, yes, sir.

Okay. And surveillance of our roadways is nothing new. I mean, we've had this system here since 2014. Right. We've been operating the Alpers since 2014. How many DOT traffic cameras are in Dare County? I'd be lying if I tried to quote you, but I know a great number. There's a great number of them. And they've been in service since the 80s. And is that any different from this system?

I don't understand the operations of the DOT cameras and what they're capable of doing. These are unique in that they do take pictures of license plates and vehicles that pass by. Yes, sir.

Also, in several areas, there's a couple in North Carolina, There's quite a few in Virginia that are toll booths, and there's no actual physical toll booth. You ride through it. The camera takes a picture of your license plate. You get a bill in the mail. Yes, sir. Is that similar to this technology?

No, sir. It could be, but I am, again, not proficient in that technology, and these cameras do not use that technology.

So if there's no reason for it to flag you, you would not know who went through that unless you physically looked through it. And obviously with the number of manpower you have in the Sheriff's Department doing this, I don't think you would have the manpower to track every single vehicle going through there. Right. It would be impossible. Right. That's all I got.

Thank you, Vice Chairman. Commissioner Bateman.

Tyler, I go to Wanchese every day, building their challenge, sometimes four times a day. Can you pull up and tell me exactly when I go there?

I can tell you when you cross past of that camera, but I cannot tell you where you go from that point on.

So anybody in this room can be taken that same route and you'll know that they go there every day?

If their tag is identified and they're subject of a criminal investigation, then I would in turn run that tag and it would pop up that you had crossed past with that camera.

If for some reason this board made the decision that we only wanted cameras at the bridges to highlight someone coming in and leaving, how would that affect your department?

Just like any technology, it's not 100% perfect. So we have instances where vehicles make it past one camera, whether they're being blocked off by traffic, you know, one lane versus the other and their tags weren't picked up. And we do have a lot of traffic that comes into our county. So if it misses it at one camera, then we'd like to think that we have another catch point if a criminal were to alert in a different area. So it would not make the system as effective if we only put it at those two locations.

Thank you. I've got one other thing. Yes, sir. The Supreme Court's ruling in Chautry versus the United States, they did say that the geofencing with the cell phones did impend on his Fourth Amendment rights. And therefore, every other case using geofencing is now under direct review, every case in the nation. If we continue to use these flock cameras, and the Supreme Court does in turn rule later on down the road, a year or two maybe, that they do violate the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution, then every case pending review would be under direct review. And if we only have evidence based on using the flock cameras, we could miss out on convicting some bad guys.

No, sir. I understand what you're saying, but that's where our policy and what we direct our users to use. If we get an alert, then we have to verify that before we take any enforcement action. So it is not just immediately that car hits a camera and we stop it. Law enforcement verifies that that is indeed the tag that's displayed on the vehicle, whatever alert that law enforcement was alerted to, and then the enforcement action takes place.

Well, you could say the same thing about Chatterjee versus the United States, but it didn't go that way. He ended up getting off on his conviction because of the geofencing.

Right, but this camera does not have the – it's not geofencing per se.

Yeah, geofencing was – In that particular case, I read through it, was the law enforcement agency at that time, they contacted cell phones to get a broad range of who was there at that time. That is geofencing. And that would be an invasion of privacy for everybody's cell phone that was there who was not involved with the situation.

Well, these cameras monitor every license plate, whether they're involved in a criminal thing or not.

Yeah, but like you're saying, too, you're only looking for the, you're not looking, you're not reading every individual camera. I mean, every tag goes through there.

Right, it's physically impossible, yes, sir.

So I got just one quick, like procedurally, I'm going to do a what if with you. Yes, sir. So I'm sitting at home, Mary Ellen steals my truck. She drives out of Wanchese because she's, you know, And I've reported it stolen. Now, why don't you use only one road in, one road out? It's part of the beauty of it. It's also a bad thing. But it's one road in, one road out. And she rides by that. When she rides by and it reads my tag, and I've reported it stolen at this point, Does it alert the officers on duty? Does it alert the administrators? How does that? Is somebody on patrol? Let's say one of your guys is sitting at the wedding venue up on the corner. Yes, sir. Right. Just passed, I think, the camera. Does he get an alert, and then does he pull out and then pull that vehicle over? I know you said there's some time involved a lot of times with, or is it where it's a serious thing, like an auto theft, or if you're looking for a murderer? I mean, like, what is the procedural, how do you go about doing an individual thing like that?

Right, just to use your scenario, if a deputy is indeed in that spot, he's logged into, he or she's logged into FLOC and receives that alert immediately, they in turn know that that vehicle's coming in their direction unless it were to turn off before them, right? So as soon as that vehicle that has the description of the alert that comes past them, they're able to observe it physically. They would then get behind that vehicle, verify that that was indeed the stolen vehicle, and then conduct enforcement action.

Okay. I was just wondering procedurally how it would work if you guys are given alerts or if you're in there just searching for

No, that's the distinct difference between the 70 users that are able to, that have accounts with FLOC and the 29 that can search.

Okay, the 29 can search, 70 get alerts regardless.

Right, all of our patrol deputies, the guys and girls that are working routine patrol, they're logged into the database and our telecommunicators are logged in just to receive alerts for specific incidences like that.

Okay, I have more questions.

Yes, ma'am.

Absolutely. Who controls the placement of the cameras? Who decides where they go?

We, as an agency, decided where to place them.

Okay. And someone mentioned, I heard someone mention Palantir, which I quickly looked up is a software company because I had never heard of it. Is that the software that's being used for these cameras?

These guys might would know that better than I do, right? We pay for flock safety. It is a vendor. We have no allegiance to that vendor whatsoever. Are they using that technology that's basically big brother and everybody's concerned? They may be. I'm not going to say that they're not, but I can tell you that they don't have access to the information that's in our cameras. It takes a law enforcement officer to be able to have access to these cameras. So even the salesmen that came in to brief us on the system, they can't see any of what our cameras are producing.

So if you, but do you have to do software updates?

The cameras are, they automatically do updates.

But you're not sure what software they're using for that?

No, as far as I know, it's just their flock safety is. Who's doing the updates?

I have one more question, and actually this question is for Bobby. So what authority do the commissioners have in regulating how these are used? And that would be just for unincorporated dare, correct? Because we would not have any authority over whether Southern Shores Police Department allows theirs or Kitty Hawk allows theirs or Manny or whatever.

That would be correct.

So if we can't say we're going to defloct Dare County and all of them are gone, it would only be the 14 that the Sheriff's Department is using. Unincorporated Dare. Okay. I just wanted to make that distinction. We're making a decision on the 14. Let me take it a step further.

We funded these cameras in 2020-2014 in a consent agenda item. Do we, in fact, have the authority to, well, we have the authority to rescind the funding for those. I'm sure I'm positive of that, correct?

So you've got a contract. I don't have it in front of me because I don't know what it says right now. But you've got a contract that was approved. And then after it's approved, it was gone through the process and signed and went out. And then money was paid. for that contract. So that contract is in effect until it expires or until, if there's termination provisions in there, until you comply with the termination provisions. So in terms of getting money back or those kind of things, I'm not sure what we can do there. In terms of turning the camera off and not using it, then that has nothing to do with the contract. If you directed that and the sheriff did that, then the cameras are off and then it would be between us and whether we got any of the money back or whether we just had to eat the balance of the contract.

And I understand that. Perhaps maybe you didn't understand the question. We cut the funding. We terminate whatever there is with the contract with the person we have the contract with. We don't fully manage the Sheriff's Department's budget. If we did away with those, what's to prevent the sheriff from looking at other avenues in his department to fund those cameras and keep those cameras rolling?

So the sheriff is a unique department among county departments, and the sheriff has control over how he operates his department. He can hire and fire whether I agree or don't agree, whether you agree and don't agree. He has to do some things in line with us. He can't spend more money than we give him, but within his budget, if he moves money around, he has authority to change his budget within the constraints of what we do, other than salaries and benefits, because he's agreed to be a part of our salary and benefit plan, and so they have to comply with the rules of the salary and benefit plans. That's a long-winded answer to your question. Conceivably, if the sheriff chose to fund it another way, he could stop some other program he's doing and direct those funds to another place in his budget. The departments that we control, if you're asking me about public works, they could not do that without my approval first, and then depending on what it was and how big it was, your approval.

Right, but my point being, we could eliminate the funding, we could say defloct the cameras, and if he chose to find other means in his budget to continue the use of those cameras, he could do so.

Correct. Ultimately, our leverage, for lack of a better term, with the Sheriff's Department is funding. If the Sheriff's Department doesn't act the way that you believe is appropriate, then you have the authority to cut funding. It's constitutionally you're required to have a sheriff and a deputy and that's it. And so you have complete control of the funding beyond that.

Are there ordinances or anything like that that could be put in place that we could utilize to prevent them from being?

I don't know the answer to that. I'd have to go look. My experience has been through three sheriffs, and I have met with the incoming sheriff, and I would expect that to remain, is that we would work together, and if that was your will, then I think we would work it out with them. It would be their will. So I wouldn't expect that we would find ourselves in that problem. Tyler.

I can answer that. We're not going to be in a fight over that. Yeah. Do what you do. We're going to go along with what you do. I can't speak for the other sheriff, but two of his men are back there, and... I'm not sure they'd want to answer that question for him. I apologize. I should have been standing up. But, you know, it is what it is. No reason for me to go against you. You know, that's the way we work. We've worked that way for 16 years. And I'm changing that tomorrow or the next day. I've got three months left. You can't run me but so far.

Doug, I knew the answer to that before I ever asked it, but I needed to ask it.

I understand completely.

Yes, sir.

And I hope you know that would have been what I said is what I did. Absolutely.

Yes, sir. Kyle, I've got a question. So you've heard the concerns of the citizens. Yes, sir. Is there any software out there that's less intrusive than what we're using right now?

We actually use – this is the least intrusive as far as this technology goes. There are some companies that can track many things, and – That's a company that makes profit, right? They create the latest and greatest to try and make selling points. But we are at the least intrusive measure as far as the Alper technology goes.

And you said they did software updates. They could not automatically do a software update that made them more intrusive than what you intended when you bought the cameras?

Correct. They have to operate within the law, and they cannot review or obtain the data. Okay. Thanks.

All right, Board. I have one last one for Tyler and for Sheriff Doughty. One of the public speakers mentioned that, in their opinion, this was an egregious abuse of power and rebellion is absolutely next. And she and or, and I think I'm quoting it or paraphrasing, our boys are ready with sawzalls, which I didn't know what it was, but I've now learned.

He's not, he's obviously not Tim the Tool Man.

That's correct. And they'll be going out and sawing off the poles and the cameras. I mean, we're trying to get to the right solution here. And I thought that was a bit of a chilling threat to do something like that. And I'm not sure if you guys heard it, but I sure did. And I wanted to emphasize.

Yeah, that's right.

Called you the devil.

Yeah. All right. That's not a question. It's a comment that I didn't find very helpful at all.

All right. Anyone else have any more questions of Tyler or the sheriff or the county manager?

Thank you, Tyler.

Thank you. Thank you all for your time. I appreciate it.

Thank you for your time. And truly, we do respect your opinion. What you say will go with us. I promise. Take care.

I need my screen fixed here because I want to go to something. We'll go back to the agenda. Okay, we're certainly under item six, flock cameras. And this was an information presentation by the sheriff and Tyler Downey. I'm going to put this out there to the board. Is the board prepared? TO TAKE SOME ACTION TODAY WITH RESPECT TO THIS PRESENTATION AND THE CONCERN THEY'VE HEARD FROM OUR CITIZENS. YES. YES. ALL RIGHT, MICHAEL. THE FLOOR IS YOURS.

DO YOU NEED A MOTION, OR ARE YOU JUST DISCUSSING?

YOU SAID YOU'RE PREPARED TO TAKE ACTION. YOU SAID YOU PRETEND TO TAKE ACTION. I'M LOOKING FOR WHATEVER. EITHER, WHATEVER WAY, WHATEVER

Do you want further discussion? Do you want to hear more of my opinion? Yeah, I want both. I'm of the opinion, and this is my view after everything that's been brought to my attention, all of the reading I've done, all of the research I've done here lately involving this, it's a very It's definitely something that we'll be taking care of 100% at a much higher level of government than us eventually. I feel the Supreme Court's going to be forced into ruling on it, and I think it's going to be at the top of their agenda very, very, very soon. Until then, I don't feel it's in the best interest of the public. I don't feel it's intrusive. I think it fringes on taking our freedom. And I'm not in favor of it at all to the point that I'd be willing to make a motion to remove the cameras.

14.

14, the ones that we control as the Derrick County Sheriff's Department and unincorporated there.

OK. Looking for further comments from the board.

Well. We're probably two years out from a North Carolina Supreme Court ruling on these particular cameras. We might be a year out on a federal ruling on these cameras. All that being said, it's a very slippery slope. And with numerous municipalities, county councils and commissions, and now even entire states getting rid of these flock cameras, I believe it'd be an opportune time to take it. I have to respect the values of our constituents. And this is a bipartisan issue. I mean, I've seen the news every day. There is prominent Democrats and prominent Republicans alike all calling to get rid of these flock cameras. And I believe that our Dare County law enforcement did a beyond excellent job before we had flock cameras. And I think they'll do a beyond excellent job without them. I just firmly believe it's a slippery slope. And we don't know. I know what our Sheriff's Department is going to do with the information. They're going to do a good job. What I don't know is what flock safety is going to do with the information. Because they undoubtedly have access to all the cameras and all the information. There's no way they don't. It's their technology. It's their data centers. Everything is ran through their software program. It's not an independent county software program. It's part of a national network that it's a very, constitutionally, I'm not a Supreme Court justice. Didn't go to law school. But I was able to talk to a former Superior Court judge for about four hours this weekend about this particular issue, knowing it was coming up on our agenda. And like I said, it is a slippery slope because of the wide view angles of the cameras. They do access into people's private property that's beside the roadside, and it does promote a potential property rights issue, which is protected under the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution. And with entire states now getting rid of it, I feel like it'd be the safe decision to get rid of them now. And if the Supreme Court rules in the future that they do not violate the Constitution and that they are in no violation of the Fourth Amendment, then maybe at that point in time, I'd be open to renewing the contract with a particular ALPR, but until the Supreme Court rules on it, obviously we've got a lot of constituents, bipartisan constituents from both sides of the aisle, which is very unique. I believe it'd be in the best interest of this board to potentially take action. Obviously, I value all of your opinions as well.

Thank you, Commissioner. Anyone else?

Yeah, we did hear a lot of public comment today. Much of it was reasonably presented, which I thank you. I'm looking at one gentleman here in the front row with cohesive arguments we heard hyperbolic accusations of us lining our pockets up here and stalking children and whatnot. And then we heard a fact-based, fairly unemotional presentation from the sheriff's group that explained what it was, what it wasn't, how it's a tool. It's one of many tools that law enforcement uses. And that the one group that we didn't hear from because there's only a few of them, were the victims that might have gotten their car back or gotten the suspect involved in whatever crime they were pursuing, because there's not many of them. They won't come to the meeting and thump on the rostrum here like many of you all did today. Unfortunately, though, it appears that This tool, although I believe what the sheriff's told us, that has not been abused, has not been misused, has been very, very restricted, is still viewed as an egregious overstep by our government. And as such, I'm kind of with you all that we are listening to our constituents. And I'm prepared to, again, with Mr. Burris, Commissioner Burris, agreed to, and I would think, shut off the cameras before we take them down, because I also agree this is going to go much higher, either to the state legislature, the U.S. Congress, and or the Supreme Court, because it is a nationwide issue. So I would make a motion now that we effectively immediately turn off the cameras, which again does not infringe on the contract, if I understood, County Manager, but it

Contract, all it requires us to do is to pay them the money, and we have done that. So whether we turn them off, take them down, whatever, the issue would be what happens with the money.

Yeah, if we can terminate the contract and it save us money.

Now, if the contract is a lot... Before we have discussion, there's a motion on the floor, and I need a second in order to continue the conversation. Is there a second? I'll second it.

I think there's two, though, because Mike said to remove them, and Rob is saying to turn them off.

Mike didn't make a motion. I didn't hear a motion. I said I'd be willing to.

Oh, I'm sorry. My bad.

There's a motion on the floor by Commissioner Ross, and I've seconded it. Now the floor is back open for discussion. Commissioner Kreef.

I'd make a separate motion to, I guess the proper term would be to request that that the Sheriff's Department terminate the contract with flock safety. Is that correct, Bobby?

BOBBY ALEXANDER That would be an amendment to the motion. You would have to amend the motion, or you would have to ask the maker of the motion to restate that motion to that effect. Rob, would you be willing to restate that motion?

I need a clarification. Are we paying a monthly lease or fee for these cameras, or were they a one-time purchase acquisition? If it's an ongoing lease or fee, then I would agree.

There's a software license that we're paying.

Is it monthly?

I think it looks like we paid it.

Well, let's wait until we get the answer. Do we have an answer?

Uh-oh. Here comes Jeff.

Good morning, Mr. Allen and Mr. Commissioner. Come up, yeah. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Commissioners, Mr. Allen. Do you wish comment from me? Can you answer the question? I can. Yes, sir. Flock cameras are leased. It is an annual contract, and it's per camera. with one contract of the total 14.

When is the contract up?

Annually. So we'd have to renew.

I'd have to pull it. I don't know exactly. We've paid the fee. The cameras are up. It's paid once annually. Terminating the contract doesn't do anything. It's the use of the camera that I heard being expressed. So if the cameras were no longer being used,

We still have to pay the money.

That's what I'm trying to ask.

There's an annual contract. The annual fee has already been paid. So FLOC has their money. We're leasing the cameras. Taking them down would be problematic because we'd have to ask them to take them down. Turning them off just means the sheriff doesn't use them. But the fee has been paid for the annual thing. If we either had them taken down or removed, they wouldn't be used. When the contract expired, we wouldn't renew it unless you chose to renew it.

I got a question. In turning the cameras off and leaving them on the post, I can already feel that the public does not trust us. Right. That's why I said take them down. That's exactly right. Total transparency. Yep. Total transparency unless they take them down. Yes. I agree.

Can I say this? We're going to take it down. Good enough. Leave the camera up. The camera ain't going to be there. Yeah, exactly. Somebody had a camera. Exactly. And then we're going to leave it for it. Take it down. If you say take it down, we're going to take it down.

Yeah. There we go. Because then we would be on the hook for the camera.

Yes. All right.

Rob, would you?

I will modify the motion to remove the cameras as soon as practical, as soon as possible.

And as a second, I will second that amendment to the motion. Floor again, once again, is open for discussion. No further comment from me. Call the vote. Well, I'll call the vote, but how soon can we do this in X number of days, Sheriff?

Give me two weeks.

Two weeks? Yes, sir.

All right.

And that's just to make sure that we can do it and the company knows what we're doing.

I understand. All right. With that being said, those in favor of the motion, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like said. Motion carries unanimously.

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, you voted to amend the motion. You've got to now vote again on the amendment.

Hold on, hold on.

We voted on the amendment. Now we have to vote.

You voted to allow the amendment, and now you have to vote on what's now the motion. That's right.

Do you care to restate that motion for us, Bobby, so the public?

Well, the motion now, as amended is, the motion is to remove the flock cameras.

Right. That's correct. All right. All those in favor of that motion, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like said.

Before you adjourn for lunch, there's two short items. We could run those two people out of here before lunch if you allow that. Number seven and number ten.

So we want to run seven and ten out of here.

I agree with those four people. We can do that. Item seven. All right. The first one she says is five minutes. This is number seven. It's a proclamation for Smart Start Month and Diaper Need Awareness. And I'll turn that over to you, Senator.

Before we bring Carla and Sarah up here, for those of you that spoke this morning concerning the flock cameras, I hope and pray that you will be addressing your concerns with the six municipalities in Dare County.

They operate 36 other cameras.

Sarah?

I believe it's 34 or 36 cameras.

Carla, you guys are up. Ladies are up. Excuse me.

Good afternoon, Commissioners.

Good afternoon.

Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. I'm Sarah Sampson, the Executive Director of Children and Youth Partnership, and I'm here with Carla Hepburn, our Education and Evaluation Program Manager. We do have a slideshow that we ask that you put on the screen for us, please.

It's okay.

It's hard to believe it's September already and today's September 1st. September is Smart Start Month and we wanted to take a moment to share what Smart Start means here in Dare County and how we at Children and Youth Partnership are part of that statewide effort. I would like to start with a short video. and gives a little bit of information about Smart Start and the difference this network is making for young children and families in North Carolina.

Got it. Yeah, thank you.

Amen. I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. I did not want to go down that road.

I think we're the seventh county in North Carolina to do that. So it ain't like we're the first. I hope we didn't do a bad thing, but we'll see.

Amen.

From your first night home to their first day of school, the Smart Start Network is there for families like yours. Whether you're looking for child care, parenting support, early learning opportunities, or health resources, Smart Start connects you to free and local resources. And with local partnerships serving every county, help is closer than you think. For over 30 years, North Carolina families have trusted Smart Start. Find out why at SmartStart.org.

So as you just saw, Smart Start is a statewide effort focused on giving young children a strong foundation, the need to thrive. We at Children and Youth Partnership for their county are proud to be part of that network as a local Smart Start partnership. Here in our community, we bring that mission to life by providing programs and services, connections that support young children, their families, and our early childhood educators. Some examples include the Triple P Positive Parenting Program, which gives parents practical strategies and tools for raising confident, healthy children, and our Kaleidoscope Play Groups, where young children and their caregivers can learn, play, and build connections. and Dolly Parton's Imagination Library, which puts books directly in the hands of young children and help foster a love of reading from an early age. We also provide resources and support to our childcare providers and connect families with services to help them navigate the challenges of raising young children. Our mission is to make sure that children, families, and educators in our community have what they need to thrive. And when we invest in young children and the people who care for them, the whole community benefits. September is Smart Start Month, and we'll kind of wrap up our presentation later with that proclamation. But it is a time for us to celebrate all the people that are part of this work. That could be early childhood professionals, families, community partners, volunteers, and everyone who contributes to the strong foundation for young children. This year, we're really excited. We have a special event coming up, and we invite you to join us on Tuesday, September 15th. at 10 a.m. for a special ribbon-cutting ceremony, an open house at Children Youth Partnership. We have a ribbon-cutting for our new outdoor learning environment. This new space is a wonderful addition, and it's gonna give children another opportunity to learn, play, and connect with the outdoors. This amazing space was made possible through the generosity and support of the First Flight Rotary Club, among many other community partners, including the Garage Band Charities. And we are incredibly grateful for the community support to help us make this vision a reality. And following the ribbon-cutting at 10, we're going to do an open house at our office. Everyone will be welcome to stay and play in the outdoor learning environment, check out our playroom, our lending library, and meet with our staff to learn more about the programs and services that we provide. We would love for you to join us. Parking is limited, and we encourage everyone to carpool. And with that, while we're celebrating the many things, the support that we do provide to children and families in our community, there's another important need in our community that we want to highlight today. So I'm going to hand it over to Carla, who will talk about diaper need awareness and the work of our diaper bank.

Good afternoon, Commissioners. Thank you for having us today. As Sarah mentioned, I'm here to talk about CYP's Diaper Bank and Diaper Need Awareness Week. So picture this, your home with your brand new baby, doing everything that you can to make ends meet and to make sure that baby's needs are met. The diapers from your baby shower seem like a great start, but babies have a surprising way of going through diapers really quickly. You realize that you're on your last package from your baby shower, and you don't have it in the budget to be able to make another trip to the store. For parents already trying to stretch every dollar, something as essential as a clean diaper can become a real source of stress for them. And for far too many families, that's a challenge that they face on a regular basis. And that's where CYP's Diaper Bank comes in. Each month on the second Tuesday and Wednesday of the month at our office in Manteo, we hold a diaper pickup for families to be able to come and pick up diapers. They can come and pick up two packs of diapers for free to help support their diaper need. During just our diaper pickup events over the past year, we served 135 families monthly. And we had a high of 157 families in just one month. So during the past year, we distributed over 3,500 packs of diapers to families. That's about 90,000 diaper changes for the better in our community.

1,800 families?

3,500 packs of diapers. 1,800 families, that's not unduplicated. So... That's duplicated? Yeah, that is duplicated, yes.

Okay, thank God.

I was about to panic.

30% of childbearing families are, okay.

We do have new people coming every month, but a lot of our families utilize that as a resource on a regular basis. But none of this would be possible without our community and their support, as CYP's Diaper Bank is a community-funded program through the donation of diapers and the donation of funds to support the purchase of those diapers. So last year, you all made a meaningful investment in CYP's Diaper Bank with a generous donation to support the purchase of diapers. And that support went a tremendous way, helping us to provide approximately 75,000 diapers over the past year. And we cannot thank you enough for that support last year. As I mentioned before, Diaper Need Awareness Week is fast approaching, happening on September 14th through the 20th. Hold on. I'm ahead of myself. Happening on September 14th through the 20th this year, Diaper Need Awareness Week is a time to raise awareness about diaper need within the community, as well as to encourage community involvement around diaper need. So during Diaper Need Awareness Week, we'll have several drop-off points for diapers within the community, and those drop-off points are listed here on the slide. And as we spread the word about diaper need across the community, we appreciate your willingness to proclaim the week of September 14th through the 20th as diaper need awareness week, as well as the month of September as smart start month in Dare County. And we welcome any questions you may have.

All right. Does anybody have any questions?

I have a just quick question. So, um, so that's diaper need awareness week. during that week, and everybody's going to be encouraged to come out and give. But let's say like throughout the course of the year, because I'm a lifelong bachelor, I wouldn't know a first thing about a diaper. What would somebody do if they were so inclined to come out and give? Would they give a monetary donation? Would they buy the diapers and drop them by a location? Throughout the course of the year, how do you accept those donations?

We have both of those things happening. We have a place on our website where people are able to go and give on our website specifically to support CYP's Diaper Bank. Or we've had people that drop off, I don't know if our library people are here, but on a regular basis we have a patron that comes to drop off diapers at the library and they then get them to us. They can drop them off to us at our office. And then business-wise, you can hold a diaper drive. We actually, Nags Head Church just recently held a diaper drive and collected over 6,000 diapers for CYP's Diaper Bank. We have a diaper drive toolkit on our website to teach people how to do a diaper drive or to give them ideas for doing a diaper drive. So we try to support anybody who's interested in supporting CYP's Diaper Bank.

That's fantastic. Thank you. That's exactly what, just in case anybody's watching and they're inclined to give, I want them to make sure they have the the wherewithal to know how to do it. I appreciate that. All right.

I believe we have a proclamation you'd like for us to approve. County Manager, you want to do it?

Sure. Unless you just want to approve it. Let's just approve it.

Yeah, we can do it. Let's do that. It's a long one. It's a long one.

Let's please. I'll read the last. It says you proclaim the month of September 26th as Smart Start Month in Dare County and call upon all citizens... to celebrate and acknowledge the essential role Smart Start plays in building thriving communities across our state. Got it. Make the motion to adopt.

All right, there's a motion on the floor by the Vice Chair to adopt. It's seconded by Commissioner Ross. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor of the motion signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Motion carries unanimous. I believe, I can't remember, what was our amount last year we donated?

Last year, you donated $15,000.

That's what I thought. I'll make the motion to donate another $15,000 this year. All right. It's a motion on the floor. Second. By Vice Chair, seconded by Commissioner Ross. Floor is open for discussion.

Hearing none, those in favor, signify by saying aye.

Aye. Opposed, sign. Motion carries unanimously. All right. Deliver some diapers, ladies.

There's a proclamation there as well. We proclaim the week of September 14th through 20th. as diaper need awareness week in Deer County.

All right. Make a motion to approve. All right. It's a motion on the floor by the Vice Chair, seconded by Commissioner Ballance. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like sign. Motion carries unanimously.

We're trying to break by one. We've got two things we can get done, I think. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, we've got 45 minutes. 10 to 1. No. She said 12.4. She said 1.45.

So, right. We're going after Bobby? We'll go. How fast can you do the CIP, Matt? Seven minutes. So, we'll do number nine, which is the Dare County CIP plan. Since the school officials are here.

What item are we looking at?

Number nine. Nine and ten, can we do both? We'll try to do nine and ten before lunch. I got it.

Yeah, I got it.

Thank you all.

No, make him wait. All right.

Starts the timer now.

Go.

All right, we're gonna go through the CIP, the capital improvement plan for the schools. This first slide is really just showing you how this is funded. So like the county's capital improvement plan, it is funded by a capital investment fund. The capital investment fund is funded by our Article 42 sales tax, which is 75% of the funding. Article 40 sales tax, which is 20% of the funding. and the remainder is coming from the lottery, because we can request lottery draws for debt service payments. That goes into one bucket, which is this capital improvement plan, and then another smaller bucket, which is their capital outlay, which is basically just a direct payment to the schools for their maintenance and operations. This slide is just visually showing you the distribution. of the capital improvement plan, which includes 50 projects and $38 million over the next five years. I'm going to get to a slide that has some highlights, so I'm not going to go through that one. This is showing you the funding. So how we're paying for that, the capital improvement plan, the $38 million plus the Um, local capital outlay and over that five years is roughly 3.8 million totaling $42 million. So pay go and capital outlay is just money coming directly from the fund going to those projects or to the school and the remainder is coming from debt proceeds. So we're going to issue debt for the projects in the plan over the five years of that $26,850,000. So this slide is just showing you how we got this to balance. So the abbreviated version is we had additions to last year's balance plan of 4.7 million. 1.4 million of that though was just the impact of the sales tax allocation. You'll remember when we did the budget that because the towns raised their taxes, the allocation to the county went down. The school's allocation is a piece of that allocation. It also went down proportionally.

Wait, you mean the towns raised taxes and the county did not? Did we get that in the press very well?

Thank you. So how we made up that difference is we are increasing the debt, the borrowing for the field house, which we did at the last meeting. We removed the Cape Hatteras Elementary School expansion, which was tied to a COVID bump enrollment which has since gone back down and so six hundred forty thousand it was that debt service we're gonna take more money from the lottery and then we shifted out the timing of the projects so really quickly these are some highlights so in 27 we have the tennis court overhaul which has a grant component for funding we're replacing two chiller and a roof and Cape Hatteras And then in 28, we're going to start the major capital projects, starting with the Cape Hatteras Secondary School kitchen rebuild. There is a possibility of applying for a grant for that, which we will do and hopefully come back with funding it in a different way. But today it's within this plan and it works. There's a $1 million storage building at Run Hill in 28. And then in 29, we have the auxiliary gym and the addition on First Flight High School. Do we know what are we storing? What are we storing? So today the schools pay for rented storage, and what this will do is eliminate all of those rented stores. Is that good? Okay. This doesn't count towards my seven minutes. No, it doesn't.

I'll talk fast. We're required to withhold certain documentation for years. And we've got boxes and filing cabinets and we rent storage buildings to keep all that in because it's got to be climate controlled. And so by law, we have to maintain those documents. So we haven't looked at putting them on micro... or something like that? Yes, sir, we have. That's more expensive? The manpower hours would be tremendous. Got it. There's rooms and rooms of these documents.

Okay, so in 29, we'll start the first flight elementary school and middle school modernization projects, which are two-year projects within this plan. And then subsequent to that, we have chiller replacements, roof, and track resurfacing. So these are the large projects within that $38-plus million five-year plan.

Matt, we're going to issue one debt issuance at the beginning of this for the 27 projects and all of them. Are we going to then carry that, or is it going to be an installment loan borrowing?

There's going to be two debt issuances within this plan.

All right, good. I was worried we were going to sit on too much cash and paying debt service on money. Yeah, I know.

That's a great point. And actually, it's three because we're going to do the field house as part of our public works issuance.

Right.

And then we'll do this in calendar year 28 and calendar year 29. And I lost my slides. All right, there we go. This is just the assumptions within the model, which is consistent with the debt issuance assumptions in the county's capital improvement plan. We are assuming a 3% annual growth in that sales tax, which is that revenue that's funding this. And then, actually, NCDPI gives us a projection for that lottery fund. Unlike the county plan, there is no coverage. THE COUNTY PLAN HAS A COVERAGE RATIO RELATIVE TO DEBT SERVICE. THE SCHOOL MODEL WORKS THAT THE SCHOOL HAS TO HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES TO FUND THIS PLAN. AND SO THIS LAST SLIDE IS SHOWING YOU THAT. AND WE LOOK AT THE RESOURCES AS BOTH THE FUND BALANCE OF THAT RESTRICTED FUND THAT CAME FROM THE SALES TAX AND ADDITIONALLY THE LOTTERY FUND THAT THE STATE HOLDS THAT WE CAN REQUEST DRAWDOWNS FROM FOR DEBT PAYMENTS. So this is just showing you that over this 10 years, which is double the CIP term, that this plan works within the capital investment fund and the school can afford it. And if that feels good, then what we're going to ask you to do is approve it and the related budget amendment that will allow us to fund it.

Let me add one thing, just know that you are aware, but to make everyone else aware of these funds. are designated funds for capital purposes. And so this capital plan is a plan that's been put together by the school board, not by us. And Matt and Rashad have worked hard with Ian and Steve and his staff to make it work within those resources. The school can't use these resources to pay teachers, give raises, do anything else except build stuff with. And so that's why we have a finite amount of money and they've managed to make their needs fit within that fund. FOR ANYONE WHO WOULD QUESTION WHY THEY'RE SPENDING THE MONEY HERE RATHER THAN SOMEWHERE ELSE, IT'S BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE OTHER CHOICES.

I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE RECOMMENDED DCSCIP PLAN AND ADOPT THE RELATED CAPITAL PROJECT ORDINANCE.

SECOND. THERE'S A MOTION ON THE FLOOR BY COMMISSIONER BALANCE. THERE'S BEEN A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BURRUS. THE FLOOR IS OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. HEARING NONE, THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED, LIKE SIGNED. MOTION CARRIES.

Mr. Chairman, real quickly on number 10, I'm going to try it, and you come in and fix it if I mess it up. There's been a request for a school nurse at the early college. What we have is we have a grant that would be available to pay for it for this year, so no new money in this budget is needed to do that. Once you put it in there, then you've created a position. And next year when we do the budget, you're going to have to fund it. And so we don't like to come in and do a grant-funded position that's going to create recurring costs without you knowing about it. And so we've talked about this. And so this is one of those things where this grant will pay for it for this year, but there will then be a recurring cost for that nurse that we have to deal with. in future years. And if you're satisfied with that arrangement, then you would approve this today and we can move forward with it. Pleasure of the board.

I'd make a motion we approve. We need nurses in the school.

There was going to be 300 students in that school.

Well, hang on.

At the end.

We'll get a second and then we'll talk.

Yeah, we got a second. Now the floor is open for discussion, Commissioner Ross. How many students are there in college today?

Hundreds. 100. Oh, over 100? Yeah. All right.

There'll be another one.

That's fine.

Another class coming in. There'll be another class next year.

The goal is to get to 300. Got it.

One more year.

This is second year.

Second year. Two more. Two more, yeah.

This year and the next year. We'll move into the building January.

January.

By the time we start paying for it, we'll be at 340. Yes. 29? Let's do it. I'll go recount the 30.

Okay. Done. Well, you talking about this year, Urban?

Yeah.

Yeah, well, you add that to the 50-some, 53 last year, so, you know, we're rounding up. We round up. All right, those in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like signed. Motion carries unanimously.

All right, we're going to have recess for lunch.

Reconvene at 1.30. The Dare County Board of Commissioners meeting back to order and turn it over to the county manager.

Mr. Chairman, item five, which is the HR1 NC State budget impacts for Dare County, we're going to move that to our October agenda. So we'll cross that one off. That would take us down to item eight, which is library card sign-up month proclamation. If you'd like, I can read that.

Yes, sir.

Whereas libraries are foundation to education, imagination, and opportunity, offering everything from early literacy programs to digital tools that support lifelong learning and personal growth, Whereas libraries welcome all people serving as inclusive, accessible community hubs that connect individuals across cultures, generations, and experiences. And whereas libraries curate collections and design programs that reflect the diversity of the populations they serve, ensuring equitable access to information, technology, and culture for all, And whereas libraries help individuals navigate life's challenges by providing trusted information, digital access, job search support, and connections to essential services. And whereas libraries contribute to the thriving local economies by equipping job seekers, entrepreneurs, students, and creators with tools and training to succeed. And whereas in times of both crisis and calm, Libraries and their staff remain steadfast in supporting and strengthening their communities, whereas library resources help households save money, reduce waste, and make sustainable choices all through the simple power of shared public good. Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Dara County Board of Commissioners do hereby proclaim September 26 as Library Card Sign-Up Month in Dara County, North Carolina, and encourage all residents to be sharp and sign up for a library card. This is the first day of September 2026. A motion to adopt.

There's a motion on the floor by the Vice Chair to adopt as presented. Is there a second? Second. Second by Commissioner Burris. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like sign. Motion carries unanimously.

Each year we get a, this goes, we're down now to number 11, paragraph 11, item 11. Each year we get a grant. Our grant is from NCDOT for our transportation for seniors and individuals with disabilities. In order to obtain that grant, we have to have a public hearing. So with that said, I would call to order the public hearing with regard to the 2028 NCDOT 5310-5311 combined capital grant application. If anyone would like to speak to that issue, please raise your hand. Seeing none, is there anyone in Buxton that would like to speak? No comment from Buxton. That we would close the public hearing. And I think, I don't think there's any action required, so. Yeah, adopt the resolution, yes.

Motion to adopt the resolution. Okay. There's a motion on the floor by the Vice Chair to adopt the resolution. Is there a second?

Second.

Second by Commissioner Burris. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like sign. Motion carries unanimous.

Item 12 is a joint resolution requesting a permanent ferry toll waiver for locally registered vehicles. You have that in front of you. I would turn that back over to you, Mr. Chairman.

Well, there's a resolution here. You want to read it, if you will? I will.

There's a matter of law that was introduced during the myriad of public comments saying this is a waste of time. It has to be directed to the legislature, not the governor or the DOT. I don't know if that's true or not.

It is true. If we adopt it, we would send it to all elected folks. That's what we would normally do.

It's what we normally do. Proceed.

Sorry. Thank you. All right. Whereas Senate Bill 257 of the 2025 Appropriations Act amends Article 6 of Chapter 136 of the North Carolina General Statutes to impose tolls on all ferry routes in North Carolina. and to increase tolls on currently existing ferry routes according to route, destination, and vehicle size. And whereas ferries serve as the primary and in some cases exclusive highways and bridges for the residents, commuters, and emergency services of eastern North Carolina, and whereas the residents of Beaufort, Brunswick, Carteret, Craven, Currituck, Dare, Hyde, New Hanover, and Pamlico counties rely on these state-maintained marine corridors daily to access employment, medical care, education, and essential goods. And whereas mainland residents of North Carolina enjoy free untold access to state maintained roads, highways and bridges funded by the general tax base to which coastal residents also contribute. And whereas opposing additional transit fees on local citizens simply because they reside in a coastal region creates an unfair system of double taxation. And whereas the financial burden of new or increased tolls will disproportionately harm local working families small businesses and fixed income retirees who have no viable alternative transit routes. And whereas a fair and equitable solution must distinguish between daily local commuters who utilize the ferry system as an essential highway and seasonal tourism traffic that utilizes the system for recreation. Now therefore be it resolved by the boards of commissioners of the counties of Beaufort, Brunswick, Correc, Craven, Currituck, Dare, Hyde, New Hanover, and Pamlico, North Carolina, That one, member counties strongly request all tolls and fees affecting North Carolina ferry routes be waived for all vehicles registering in counties with ferry terminals. Two, the member counties humbly urge the Honorable Governor Josh Stein and the North Carolina Department of Transportation to waive all tolls and fees for vehicles registered in counties with ferry terminals and to create a permanent waiver exempting all locally registered personal and commercial vehicles from ferry tolls. And three, the member county's request that any necessary state revenue adjustments focus strictly on non-residential seasonal tourism traffic rather than penalizing local citizens. Adopted this the first day of September 2026.

Lou to adopt. There's a motion on the floor by the Vice Chair to adopt as presented. Been seconded by Commissioner Balance. Floor is open for discussion. Question.

County Manager. This essentially says that Any highway, bridge, or ferry, or other road or mode of transport is fairly taxed for recreational use, but shall not be taxed for daily normal use. And they're making a distinction in the resolution, we are, that if you use it for recreation, it's fair to tax you. If you use it to go to work or go to school, it's unfair to tax you. Does this open a can of worms that any jurisdiction across the state could imply we're going to start raising money by putting, you know, a toll on anyone without a local county license plate? I don't know the answer to that. I just read that and thought, is that a real reason?

I don't know the answer to that either. I've never done the research. Look, I have heard anecdotally that you can't distinguish among those that use the roads. You either tax everybody or tax none. I've also heard that you can tax at different rates, and so I really don't know the answer to that question.

Yeah. Emotionally, I don't want to charge our people for tolls. But I'm looking at the wording and saying, okay, does this open a Pandora's box that you go to Asheville and suddenly you're being taxed to go down the road X or Z because you're on vacation and don't live in Asheville.

Also, what I've learned is that for local residents, you can buy a pass for $150. but that pass is per vehicle per person. So if you've got two or three cars, then you're at 300, 450.

And each, each use of what, what is the toll? Do you know what the daily toll is?

That's what they're asking. That's what they're trying to determine. They directed the ferry division to study it and come up with a tolling.

Well, if it's a buck a day, you're $700 going two ways on the ferry, right? if you used it every single day.

Again, depending on what they come up with as a tolling structure.

And if you could buy an annual pass for $150, you'd be better off to just buy the annual pass. I don't know, guys. It's just, I don't know.

It's fair that they tax people going to their own home.

You know, again, emotionally, I'm with you. I don't want them to pay tolls.

I just don't know how you regulate it.

And if we don't care about the precedent, then fine, let's pass it.

Really, what it boils down to... is the state legislature has got the funds and they need to properly fund the transportation department and put the amount of money in there that the ferry division, the rest of NCDOT needs.

Right. So why are they charging any tolls? Right. I'm 100% on board with the resolution that they don't charge tolls. Right. I got hung up on the Well, if you're recreating, then you've got to pay. That's what hung me up.

Right. Rob, so some of the thought process is they're going to – I was down at my house this weekend in Ocracoke, and some of the neighbors down there seem to think what they've been told, they're going to be charged $150 a year for their priority pass to go over there. Then they're also going to be charged $150 a year flat fee for unlimited times going back and forth. And the tourists are going to be charged $6 per car.

And this is not written instead.

Right. But that's what their plans are. I mean, we could certainly revise this resolution.

I don't know. I mean, am I wrong, guys? No, you make them. You talk me out of it. You make them.

Your point's well made. This is a joint resolution. If we're going to revise it, it would be.

Yeah, it's all the other guys, all the other counties.

Well, that doesn't mean we have to do a joint resolution. We can do our own. Do whatever you want, yeah.

We can do the joint one and then send her on it. To be honest with you, I don't think it's going to make a difference.

And you're probably right. So I'm making a big issue out of a no issue. So let's just go. Got it. All right.

Those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like so. Motion carries unanimously. Bobby was a one of one against that ordeal.

Jim, that brings us to item 13 on the agenda. The Southern Albemarle Association has their meeting coming up, and they have a proposed guest list of invitees from Dare County, and they're asking you to approve that list. We are. Did we make the list? We are. They did.

The list is attached. Found it.

Are we on it?

Yeah, we're on it.

Motion to approve.

Motion on the floor by Commissioner Ballas to approve as presented. Is there a second? Second. Second by the Vice Chair. Further comments?

Can we nominate a proxy? I'd like to nominate Mary Helen to replace me as my proxy.

Oh, no.

Too late.

Sorry. All right. All those in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like, sign. Motion carries unanimously. When is this annual meeting?

Usually in the fall sometimes, Steve.

I don't have that date yet. You'll get an invitation if you're on that list. Yeah, I remember pushing my idea.

It's usually in the fall.

Move on to the consent agenda. You have the approval of the minutes from August 3rd and August 10th, the tax collector's report, contract with Trane U.S. Inc., elevator maintenance contract, the North Carolina Governor's Highway Safety Program Local Government Resolution for the NCLEL. And then the North Carolina Highway Safety Program Local Government Resolution for the GHSPOT. And then you have the authorization to present a service weapon to retiring Deputy Sheriff Oberbeck and an authorization to present service weapon to retiring Deputy Sheriff Lieutenant David Mason.

Motion on the floor by the Vice Chair. Second. Seconded by Commissioner Bateman. Open for further discussion. Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Opposed, like so. Motion carries unanimously.

Next are your board appointments. The Dare County Joint Community Advisory Committee, Nursing Home Advisory Committee. Mitchell Bateman and Mary Pendle have both completed the required training to be appointed to the Dare County Joint Community Advisory Committee. Government law commission area on aging has submitted a recommendation letter for them to be appointed.

VICE CHAIR BAILETMAN.

I remember Mitchell raising this thing and there were significant barriers to entry, if I can use that phrase. Do we anticipate, Bobby or Skyler, do you know if there are any other candidates kind of lining up to do this? One more? Going through. Okay. Yeah, I was just curious. It's a big ask.

It's a big ask. Those requirements aren't ours. I know. I know.

And there was some issue about liability exposure, personal liability that caused the mass resignation last time. Okay.

Bobby, let me ask this. Is there any, supposedly the Albemarle Commission was looking at some compensation for these people?

I don't know. I know that we, I think we reimbursed these two for their travel for those trainings here for the ones that we have. I don't know what the Albemarle Commission is doing. Okay.

I don't recall seeing that on any of our agendas, Irvin. Okay. All right.

Ready to move on?

Yes, sir.

All right. Next is the Health and Human Services, the terms of Brent Richardson, Jamie Daniels, Ashley Jackson, and Christopher Roberts expired this month. The Health and Human Services Board recommends Brent Richardson and Jamie Daniels be reappointed. Christopher Roberts indicates he does not wish to be reappointed. And to fill the seat currently held by Roberts, the Board recommends that Ashley Jackson be reappointed and moved from her current at-large seat to the social worker seat. And the Board recommends that Joel Keith be appointed to fill the at-large seat, which would have been held by Ashley Jackson. Additionally, due to Dwayne Gibbs' lack of attendance, the Health and Human Services Board recommends appointing Megan Seaman to fill his seat.

Motion to approve.

It's a motion on the floor by Commissioner Bateman. Is there a second? Second by the Vice Chair. Over for further discussion. Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Opposed, like so.

Next is the Thomas A. Baumann Senior Center Advisory Board. The Advisory Council recommends the appointment of Adelaide Page and Andrea Podegar to fill the two vacant seats.

Most approve.

Motion on the floor by the Vice Chair. Seconded by Irvin Bateman. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like sign. Motion carries unanimous.