Board of Commissioners - Regular Meeting

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to this nice, cool July morning, July the 7th, 2026, Dare County Board of Commissioners. Appreciate all y'all being here. At this time, I have the honor and privilege of asking the Reverend Sherry Wheeler if she'll come forward for an invocation. Reverend Wheeler, thank you. And as always, thank you for your service to our country.

Chairman Woodard inspired me in his words to the county this past week about the men and women who have secured our freedom and held that freedom. So I dug this out today in their honor. Please join me in prayer as I read an adaptation to a prayer that was written by Robert Jeffress. America at 250, a prayer for freedom beneath the hand of God. Let us pray. 250 years have flown since freedom's seed was bravely sown. Beneath God's hand, through storm and flame, a nation rose to praise his name. From pilgrim's prayer to battle cries, with tear-filled hearts and lifted eyes, our fathers sought the Lord above for liberty, for truth, for love. The valley dark and mountains high, the flag still waved beneath the sky. Not perfect hands, but humbled knees have begged the Lord for righteous peace. O God of grace, still guide our land, still hold us in thy mighty hand. Let justice roll, let mercy shine, and turn our hearts to truth divine. Amen. May children learn what freedom costs. May none forget what sin has lost. May churches ring with joyous sound and God be preached on freedom's ground. America, lift up thine eyes. The Lord alone can make thee wise. No crown, no sword, no earthly throne can save a land apart from God alone. So on this birthday, let us pray. Lord, lead our nation in thy way till liberty and truth increase and hearts find you the God of peace. Amen.

Amen. Thank you, Reverend Wheeler. May we stand for the pledge? I'd like to recognize this morning our Board of Education Chairman, David Twitty is with us, as well as our vice chair of the Board of Education, Ron Payne. David, Ron, thank you all for being here this morning. With that being said, I will turn it over to the county manager.

Good morning, Mr. Chairman, commissioners.

Item one on the agenda is the chairman's opening remarks. Thank you, county manager. As you all know by now, for many months, I like to open with a little humor. I have a little Johnny joke this morning. Don't get nervous now because, you know, Johnny can be pretty rough sometimes. This teacher had a little session in the classroom and she was asking the kids, she said, what does a chicken give you? And little Susie, she piped up and she said, meat. And the teacher said, very good, Susie, that's great. That's great. And she said, well, now what does a pig give you? And, of course, Billy, he jumped up and said, bacon. Then the teacher said, that's great, Billy. And one last one, what does a fat cow give you? Little Johnny jumps up and says, homework.

This joke has not been approved by the other commissioners.

Little Johnny can be reached at detention. I told you little Johnny can be tough. I just have one issue this morning, and I'm going to follow up on my message that I put out messages every holiday and really thought about our independence. And not that I'll be around in the next 250 years when we celebrate, but folks, we're fortunate. Just three days ago, July the 4th, 2026, our United States of America celebrated 250 years of adoption of the Declaration of Independence. A country that has freedom is profoundly fortunate because there's no other country but the United States that has had freedom this length of time. Freedom is a blessing because it allows us to speak, to worship, to think according to our conscience, choose our leaders and hold them accountable, pursue education, work, and entrepreneurship, challenge unjust laws and advocate for change, build families, communities, and institutions according to their values. Now, in the context of the United States of America, this 250th anniversary of independence is an opportunity to reflect on both the remarkable achievements of our country of sustaining a constitutional republic for two and a half centuries and the ongoing work of striving toward the nation's ideals. Our founding principles, liberty, quality under the law, representative government, and individual rights have inspired people around the world, while also requiring each generation to address shortcomings and adapt to new challenges. One way to think about it is independence is a gift, one, W-O-N, by one, O-N-E, generation. Freedom is a responsibility carried by every generation. Whether viewed through a civic, historical, or religious lens, Gratitude for freedom is often accomplished by a sense of stewardship. Those who inherit liberty have the opportunity and many would say the obligation to preserve it, strengthen it, ensure that future generations enjoy it as well. What does freedom mean today? to Robert L. Bob Woodard, Sr. Freedom means having the opportunity to live with purpose, make my own choices, pursue my dreams without unnecessary fear or oppression. It is the ability to speak my mind respectfully practice my beliefs and work toward a better frame for my future, for my family, and for my community. Freedom is not something Bob Woodard takes for granted. It has been earned through the sacrifices of countless people who believe that future generations deserve to live with liberty and dignity. Remembering these sacrifices fills me with gratitude and reminds me that freedom carries responsibility. County Manager.

Chairman, that brings us to item two on our agenda, and this is our county service pins. We have 50 years of service that is represented today. First, we'd like to ask George Fockler to come up and receive his 15-year pin from Jeff Derringer.

Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Commissioner.

Good morning, Jeff. Good morning.

George.

Good morning, sir.

Good morning, George. So I'd like to present to you Lieutenant Falkler this morning and, of course, Galaxy. Everybody has that guy. You know, everybody comes up here and they talk about, oh, he does this, oh, he does that. Everybody has that guy. I make a phone call. I need this done. I don't have to follow up and figure out did it get done or how did it get done. I call George. Hey, George, I need this done. Hey George, I need you to go fill in as an SRO today at his school. 1130 at night. Hey George, I need Galaxy. We gotta run a bomb attack. Hey George, I need this. George came to us with law enforcement experience. He's been here 15 years. We thank him for everything he does. And this is George's 39th year in law enforcement. Galaxy does an awesome job. And that's George's number one job. He not only knows as a canine handler, but Galaxy, especially as everybody knows, is our bomb dog. So George has to know all the ins and outs of all the explosives. George is my go-to guy. Thank you, George.

Thank you, Chief. Hey, guys. Jeff.

Next if Tim Lunganke will come forward to receive his 15-year pin from Jenny Collins. Good morning and welcome.

Good morning.

Good morning.

I'd like to introduce Lieutenant Tim Langeke. Tim was drawn to service community and he wanted to do it in the medical field, but he didn't want to be confined to an office environment. So he turned to EMS. In 2018, or 2008, he got his EMT certification. And in 2009, he advanced that to an intermediate certification. He worked with Hyde County on Ocracoke Island for a couple of years, and he was also in the Belle Haven area running an ambulance for Brunswick County for a couple of years. At the same time, he was volunteering for DARE EMS. Obviously, EMS was starting to get into his bloodstream then. So in 2011 is when DARE offered him employment, and he moved from those other jobs and has been with us since then. In 2015, he received his paramedic certification, and in 2018, three years later, he was promoted to lieutenant. He staffs a quick response vehicle, a QRV, in one of our districts where he is the frontline supervisor to that district, those stations that are within that, and then also helps and runs assistance on a call. He also has helped us with numerous technical scope of practices and what that is is an assessment of when we have candidates in the hiring pool or candidates that have finished a certification class before they are released in the field for independent practice, they go through a T-SOP, a technical scope of practice. That's running them through different scenarios and Tim has been one of those folks that can actually run those scenarios and function as those evaluators. On the side, he is also very integral with our fleet management and works with county shop and things and making sure that we're getting all the apparatus in and out for preventative maintenance and handling any kind of repairs. So, Tim, thank you very much for 15 years of service and look forward to many, many more. Thank you.

Next, if Steve Barrett would come up and receive his 20-year pin from Jenny Collins.

As he's walking up, I'll introduce Captain Steve Burrett. Steve started a little differently. He actually was with Dare County in buildings and grounds. He was an electrician for buildings and grounds for three years before he moved over to the EMS department. When he transferred into the EMS department, he was an EMT intermediate. 2011 he was got his paramedic and he was promoted to that paramedic position and he was assigned also on DARE MedFlight. He competed in several state paramedic competitions representing the county and he was teaching many levels, EMT, advanced EMT, and paramedic classes, both externally and also internally for the department. In 2015, he was promoted to lieutenant. He remained as a supervisor on their med flight where he oversaw the helicopter orientation program for the medical technicians, quality improvement, and did a lot of the medic mentoring on the helicopter. He also continued with his teaching and was involved in several committees. Not surprisingly, he's been functioning on the facility committees because he does work very well with buildings and grounds and with his background is very skilled at working on some of those things. He also has worked in information technology with working on some of our internal programs. and vehicle maintenance, too. In 2018, he was promoted to captain. He is now one of our shift operations officers. He has also fulfilled an administrative captain assignment in his past. He's assisted with special events, new equipment implementation, and has continued with training and facility management. And he's contributed greatly to all the new station construction projects and helping me with a lot of the design features and attending various inspections along the way. He often will come in on 24-7 notice even when he's on his days off if we have a facility issue that we're working with buildings and grounds or they are not on duty like he'll come in on a Saturday or something and try to fix a a door to get it back operational or any of the other things that might happen. He's had numerous accolades both internally and externally. He's often sought out by the employees. He's very good at coaching and mentoring them and giving them some advice. And he's been recognized internally as an EMS Employee of the Month in December of 23 and an EMS Employee of the Year for 23. But he's also been recognized at the county level as an Employee of the Month in May of 24. He loves fishing, and the only thing that surpasses that love is his son Carter, who's a six-year-old, an adorable little pile of energy, and keeps him quite busy. So, Steve, thank you for 20 years, and appreciate all the hard work. Thank you.

All right, our employee of the month could not be here today, so we'll do that next month. Those of you that received an award will go right out here with Caitlin to get a picture made before we go to public comment. Ladies and gentlemen, now's the time. It's been set for public comment. If you have public comment this morning, raise your hand. I'll recognize you. When I do come to the podium, state your name and where you're from. Please limit your comments to five minutes. There's a green light that will come on when your time begins. There's a yellow light that will come on when you have about a minute left. And there's a red light that will come on when you need to conclude your remarks. If you're here for the public hearing on the zoning text amendment or the public hearing on the sale of Kratom, please wait until we get to those agenda items to give your comments for those things. So with that said, is there any public comment this morning? I see no hands here. No one has signed up. Is there any public comment in Buxton?

No comment from Buxton.

With that, Mr. Chairman, we would close the public comment and move to item five on the agenda. This is a proclamation designating July as Parks and Recreation Month, and Spencer Gregory is here to make that presentation.

Welcome this morning, Spencer. Good morning, everybody, commissioners.

It's that time of year again when local governments across the country take the time to recognize the importance of Parks and Recreation in their local communities. Parks and Recreation is fundamental to to the health and the well-being of our community. And I want to thank each and every one of you for recognizing that and supporting our local Parks and Rec department in all the ways that you do. The U.S. House of Representatives has designated July as Parks and Recreation Month across the United States. And I will now read the proclamation for Dare County to proclaim July as Parks and Recreation Month in Dare County. Warey's Parks and Recreation is an integral part of communities throughout this country, including Dare County. And Warey's Parks and Recreation promotes health and wellness, improving the physical and mental health of people who live near parks. And Warey's Parks and Recreation promotes time spent in nature, which positively impacts mental health by increasing cognitive performance and well-being and alleviating illnesses such as depression, attention deficit disorders, and Alzheimer's. Ann Wary's Parks and Recreation encourages physical activities by providing space for popular sports, hiking trails, swimming pools, and other activities designated to promote active lifestyles. Ann Wary's Parks and Recreation is a leading provider of healthy meals, nutritional services, and education. Wary's Parks and Recreation programming and education activities, such as out-of-school time programming, youth sports, and environmental education are critical to childhood development. And Wary's Parks and Recreation increases a community's economic prosperity through increased property values, expansion of local tax base, increased tourism, the attraction and retention of businesses, and crime reduction. Ann Wary's Parks and Recreation is fundamental to the environmental well-being of our community. Ann Wary's Parks and Recreation is essential and adaptable infrastructure that makes our communities resilient in the face of natural disasters and climate change. Ann Wary's parks and natural recreation areas ensure the ecological beauty of our community and provide a place for children and adults to connect with nature and recreate outdoors. And where is the U.S. House of Representatives has designated July as Parks and Recreation Month? And where is D.A.R.E. County recognizes the benefits derived from Parks and Recreation resources? Now, therefore, be it resolved by the D.A.R.E. County Board of Commissioners that July is recognized as Parks and Recreation Month in D.A.R.E. County, this the seventh day of July 2026.

Pleasure of the board. The motion on the floor to approve the resolution is presented by Commissioner Bateman. Second. Seconded by Commissioner Balance and Vice Chair. Those in favor of the motion signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Opposed, like sign. Motion carries unanimously.

I'd also like to take this time to invite you and everyone in the community to our annual block party fun in the park event that's taking place July 17th from 4 to 8 p.m. at Rec Park. There's... Here's the flyer. These fun activities will be held along Mustian Street at the Baum Center, Outer Banks Arboretum, Kill Devil Hills Library, the Water Department, Aviation Park, and Family Rec Park. Again, July 17th, Friday, July 17th, 4 to 8. And it's really a group effort. Multi-departments are involved. I'd like to thank Caitlin. Where's Caitlin? Caitlin and Vonnie, who are integral in planning this event. Hope to see you guys out there.

Thank you, Spencer.

We'll have a booth, so y'all are welcome to come.

You talking about the dunking booth? We can arrange that. I saw a dunking booth in there. I think that's at the water department, but we just have a, we're going with the A250 thing. Y'all are welcome to be part of that. We'll be at Rec Park.

Spencer, thank you for the dog gymnastic equipment at the dog parks.

Yes.

They're getting some use out of them.

All right. Good deal. Yeah, good job. More to come. Thanks, guys. Thank you.

Is your dog using it, or are you? What's me?

All right.

That brings us to item six on the agenda. Donald Kreef and maybe others are here for the DARE Housing Foundation update.

Good morning, Donna, and welcome.

Good morning, Mr. Chairman. With the weather that we've had, the Duncan booth might not be a bad place to be, quite honestly. You had asked me earlier, or a couple of weeks ago, to come in front of the board and do an update on the progress of the Dare Housing Foundation, and that's why I'm here today. You had sent me five questions, and I'm going to answer those questions, and then I have a very short PowerPoint presentation that supplements the information that's in my PowerPoint presentation. I do have a couple of my board members here with me today, Mr. Malcolm Fearing and Mr. Ron Payne, who is the vice chair of the Board of Education, and then Commissioner Mary Ellen Balance is on my foundation, as well as Bobby Alton for the county representatives. So as I said, Commissioner, Chairman Woodard sent me five questions that he wanted me to touch on in this presentation. And so the first one of them is how much of the $200,000 has been spent and on what? So we received our first $50,000 from the county in April. I'm sorry, let me back up. In October of 2025, I came in front of you and you guys made a two-year commitment to the Dare Housing Foundation to fund us about $200,000 per year. And so we proceeded with that and we filed our paperwork to get our nonprofit started. We received the first $50,000 of that in December of 2025. We received the second installment in May. And to date, we have spent $17,658.31 out of that money. We have right at $90,000 in the bank, $94,000. And some of that is private donations that we received as well as some Our State, Our Homes Fund. You have your information that I submitted. You have quarterly reports from our treasurer, Mr. Matt Neal. That details what we have cash on hand. Yes, sir.

The acronym that was in the memo, OSOH, would you refresh me?

Our state, our homes.

Our state, our homes.

Yes, sir. The task force had applied to the UNC program, Our State, Our Homes, and we participated in that. There was four individuals from the task force that participated in that 18-month program. It just finished up. I just submitted the last homework assignment last week, and so that's what Our State, Our Homes stands for. And I'll touch on that a little bit further in the second question there. So you have the quarterly reports in there that details what our expenses are. And as I've said, we spent just over $17,000 to date. Some of those expenses include setting up our web page, the professional services to set up our web page. We had to buy insurance for the board members and for the property. We had to pay our lease with Town Bank. Town Bank has generously provided us with office space for five years and a very generous rental fee there. So we had to pay that. We've purchased some office equipment so we can have our board meetings there. And then we have our monthly occupancy expenses there. internet and we have to pay our software for our accounting and for Microsoft teams and so those are detailed in that and if you have any questions in that I'll be glad to answer those. The second question was what sources of other funding have been identified? So we did apply for our 501c3 tax exempt status and we received that status in February of 2026. As of June 30, 2026 we have received $7,530 in private donations. We also have $4,888 of Our State, Our Homes funds that the Dare Housing Foundation has received. As part of the Our State, Our Homes, we received a $5,000 impact grant, and we also received a $5,000 stipend for the project manager. I was the project manager, but I chose not to accept that stipend and rolled that in with the other $5,000, and we used part of that money to pay for the legal expenses to write our incorporation papers and to file the form 1023 to get our tax exempt status. So the remainder of those funds have been transferred to the Dear Housing Foundation. We have started a virtual sandcastle building contest, Castles for a Cause, and we're hoping to get some funds from that. We are hoping to do an outreach to non-resident property owners later this year to educate them on our cause and the need for housing in Dare County. It is my understanding that some of the other local governments in Dare County have allocated funds in their budgets that were approved July 1st. I have not received official notification of that.

Would, pardon me again, would the representatives on the foundation, each one from the towns, be able to confirm that, do you think?

I plan to ask them that at our July meeting, yes, sir.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah. So I haven't received official notice, though, and so until I get something on letterhead or until I actually have the, we have the money in our bank accounts, it's, the checks and the mail type situation. But that's my understanding that some of the towns have allocated funds. There are private sector grants that we are researching, but my research to date has shown that some of those grants require the nonprofits to have a certain period of tenure already established or have minimum operating expenses. And then once you get to specific development projects, there are grants, HUD programs, USDA, a lot of first-time homeowner programs associated with the North Carolina Housing Finance Agency that we will pursue in more depth. And then there's also financial institutes. A lot of the big banks have funds. corporate or non-profit agencies associated with them where they donate to specifically for housing. One classic example is the first phase of Run Hill Apartments there in Kill Devil Hills were built with a zero interest loan from the State Employees Credit Union. agency that does that very thing. What is the plan for future housing? And so previously in the county's efforts, there was a report that identified the need for thousands of units. I think it was 3,000 units. And we recognize at the Housing Foundation that that number is unrealistic for us because we have no dedicated funding source. So we're scaling that back. We're going to operate and hopefully build units on a much smaller scale that's realistic and that will allow us to grow consistently and responsibly. We are focusing on the use of public lands. You'll recall that in the task force report there was a list of public lands that had been identified and I also included that in my report in October of 2025. So we're working on identifying how some of those pieces of land could be used. And it's my intention to hopefully come back in front of the board in six months or so and have a more detailed request on the use of some of those public lands. We focused on the community land trust, the community land trust, and I'm gonna touch on some more details on the land trust in my PowerPoint. But the land trust seems to check a lot of the boxes and the community concerns that we've heard about. Will it be for year-round residents? Will it be for primary residents? Will it be for the workforce? So the land trust is a perpetual cycle of affordability and keeping those units in ownership of the land trust. We have examples from other land trusts in North Carolina, and we're going to be working to adapt those documents for the Housing Foundation. And then we're also focusing on the 2004 Board of Education legislation that was used to build the existing teacher housing in Kill Devil Hills and in Buxton. That legislation contemplates units on Roanoke Island, and so we're having very initial conversations with the Board of Education on how we can use that legislation to build something on Roanoke Island. in the very preliminary stages, and there's some legal issues that have to be addressed with that, with the transferability of that land.

Yeah, I thought that was just exclusively for educators, that legislature. Actually... And I'm not going to say I know that, but I thought, no.

No. No, the title... Yeah, the title of the actual legislation includes local government employees, and it references that teachers are the priority. Gotcha. Okay. Thank you. Number four is... What type of housing do you envision? Cluster homes, single family, duplexes, triplexes? Do you have a time frame and what is the metrics for progress? So we, as part of our Our State Our Homes, we connected with a professor from the UNC School of Business, the Keenan School of Business, in his graduate class this past semester developed a concept plan for us, free of charge, that we hope to take and use as the basis for our detailed plans. And that plan is a mixture of single family homes and up to four units under one structure. And the significance of four units under one structure is that the North Carolina residential code allows four units under one structure. And once you get that fifth unit under one roof, it goes to the commercial code. So there's cost savings there. So we're hoping to incorporate that cost savings in whatever we may do. The concept plan, as we envision it, can be applied to some of those different public lands that we're working on. We have also just completed a RFQ for architects and engineers. We sent out an RFQ request. We received several of those. The deadline for that was June the 26th, and we will be interviewing architects those respondents later in July and we hope to hire an architect to have on staff to help us develop a catalog of small footprint homes that we will use in our development and that also can be used to offer to the general public perhaps. And then our metric of progress, I would say that the metric of progress will be the adaptability of those land trust documents to apply to their housing foundation and anything we can do here. Development of a detailed concept plan for presentation to the board, probably in January after we've been in business for a full year. And then successful outreach efforts to the secondary homeowners and the public. resulting in other donations. So those are the three metrics of progress that I have listed. Is there any other information the board should be aware of? We are meeting on a monthly basis. We have subcommittee meetings, subcommittees that meet. We are all volunteers. I think it's very important to stress that, that we are all volunteers. And so if progress seems slow, it's because we have other work commitment and life commitments. But we are doing our best to address this community need, even though we have no dedicated funding source. As I said, we are an approved 501 nonprofit, so that's a very big, big thing that we were able to accomplish. and any revenue that we create, any donations that we receive will be used to help supplement our operational expenses. Our focus is on increasing housing opportunities in Dare County, and most importantly, we appreciate the support of the board and the time of Commissioner Balance and Mr. Alton to participate in our board meetings. And I'm gonna go to our presentation, if I can get the clicker to work today. So you'll see up there, that's our logo there, Dare Housing Foundation. And this is just a timeline that I put together. Commissioner Balance had suggested when I was telling her that I was coming in front of the board today that I do a timeline just to hit some of the metrics. So you'll see the nonprofit's need was identified in December of 2024 in the final report of the Housing Task Force in February of 2025. The Our State, Our Homes program commenced, and as I said, we were a part of that, and we made some very key connections there as well as getting that $10,000 as part of our participation in that. We appeared in front of you on October the 2026, at which time the board approved startup funds for two years of $200,000 per year. Based on that commitment from the county, we moved forward with filing our paperwork with the state of North Carolina. And with the IRS in October, we held our first meeting in November of 2026. And that's a typo. No, that's not a typo there. Yes, it is a typo. I'm sorry. Time flies. So we had our first organizational meeting in November of 2026. And then in December of 2026, we received our first installments. of money from the county. Our agreement with the county is that we get $50,000 every quarter and that I file a quarterly report. I filed that first quarterly report in April and that I'm hoping that today will count as my quarterly report for the second quarter. Back on the correct timeline, in January of 2026, we signed a lease with Towne Bank. five-year lease with them, very generous terms, and this equates to probably more than $100,000 of in-kind contribution. As I said, we were focusing on the land trust. We had a land trust workshop, the board members did, with a lady named Kimberly Sanchez, who serves as the executive director of the community land trust in Chapel Hill, which has been in business for I want to say 30 years. She's very knowledgeable. And so she held a workshop for us, a two or three hour workshop. answered all of our questions and we talked about how land trusts work in very specific and very general terms. In March of 2026, we received our IRS tax exempt status. In April of 2026, the concept plan from UNC was released to us on April the 30th. The graduate students had a presentation of that concept plan. We received our second installment in May, and then in June of this year, we received our RFQs for architects and engineers, and we'll be interviewing them and hopefully signing a contract with them after we select one whose work is consistent with our goals and our mission to help take that concept plan and develop into a more detailed plan for use on some of the public lands. And so in my conversations leading up to this with Commissioner Ross, he asked me, well, Donna, I understand the concept of a land trust, but can you do a graphic that explains it? And so that's what I've done. So with the community land trust, the nonprofit owns the land, and they lease the land to a buyer. He gets a mortgage, or he or she qualifies, and they get a mortgage. There's certain terms. There's financial institutes out there that specialize in land trust mortgages. They sign a 99-year ground lease with the land trust. They own a traditional mortgage. They're considered the owners of it. But when they decide that that house is no longer suitable for them, if their family grows, they sell the house back to the land trust. Yes, sir?

the income eligible designation on the buyer. I don't want to do a deep dive. Is it related to income kind of a cap that above that income you would not qualify, below the income?

So it's twofold. So there's a household percentage, let's say 80% AMI, which is typically what it is. And then also that's the base threshold, but then there is We don't want them to pay over 30% of their household income for housing expenses. So it's twofold, and that helps them, but it also helps the nonprofit to ensure that they have people who can live up to their commitments and the houses aren't going into, they're not defaulting on their mortgage. So they're in the house. They pay the ground lease. It's kind of like a homeowners association fee they pay to the nonprofit when they get ready to sell their house after however long it may be because their life circumstances change, their housing needs change. They sell it back to the land trust. They know going into it when they sign that initial lease that when they sell that, it's going to be capped at a certain amount. It's not at the market price. They know that going in. There's a formula that's used. And it's based on the tenure of how long they've lived in the house. And so once they sell the house back to the nonprofit, the nonprofit starts that cycle again with the second buyer and another 99-year lease. And so that cycle that's there is explained, and I've generalized that in very similar terms, very generic terms, but that's how a land trust works. And so the important thing about the land trust is that As part of those documents that the land trust signed, you can make sure that they are residents of your community. You can have them agree to be a resident of the community. You can have a requirement that it serves as their primary residence, that it can't be used as a short-term rental. You can have a requirement that they must be employed in Dare County. The documents also have a resale formula that's identified. And again, it's based on the length of their home ownership. Typically land trust will have reserve funds, if you will, that are kept to help address the maintenance of the structure so that if the homeowner has a big expense like an HVAC unit goes out and they don't have the money to cover that, where they've paid in and participated in that fund, they can get a loan from the nonprofit to do that. And then the land trusts also are consistent with the core values of the housing foundation and that we want them to be compatible with the zoning restrictions in the community. We want to foster home ownership and that they're also consistent with the appearance of the existing neighborhoods. In my conversations with Commissioner Ross, he said, you know, Donna, when you were there back in 2024, you had this graphic that showed the sales price versus what the medium income would be. And so I went and updated that based on my conversation with him and that request to update that. So you'll see the medium sales price, and I used Collington and Roanoke Island because those are year-round communities, if you will. These are recent sales prices that I pulled from Outer Banks Association of Realtors, MLS. And you'll see what those monthly payments work out to be, what the annual payments are. And again, I've got another typo in there, I'm sorry. I apologize for that. But you'll see that that $507,000 median sales price in Collington, your household income for that is 154, almost $155,000. The 2024 average median income limit for Collington, this is based on the American Community Survey information from censusreporter.org, is $86,000. And so based on that income limit, their purchasing ability is $284,000, right, $284,500. Similar numbers for Roanoke Island. And then I also included in there just an example of the community land trust thinking, okay, we can build a house at $300,000. How do those numbers work out? And so you'll see the numbers for there. A required household income for a $300,000 house is $91,000. The average income in 2024 for Dare County as a whole is just at 89. So we think that that $300,000 is the sweet spot there, if you will. And that's consistent with the financial information that we had in our... the concept plan that the UNC students presented to us as well. They did do some finance. And so before we get into questions, I want to give all of you a copy of our handout. I'd be remiss if I didn't do that. Certainly feel free to use the QR code on the back.

Thank you, Donna.

And then that's it. I'm going to stop right there and field any questions that you guys may have.

Okay, I'll yield to the board to see if the board has any questions. I've got one or two.

I do, too.

Okay. Go ahead, Commissioner Ross.

Thank you. First of all, Donna, in the graphic that you shared with us just now, especially the bubble graphic.

Mm-hmm.

was extremely helpful for me, because as we talked through the land trust model, I was trying to make sure I followed what some of the rules are, so terrific, thank you very much. That's very, very helpful. And thank you for these stats. The one, there are actually two questions I had. Yeah, I see there's a typo under the Roanoke Island. That's not my question. If the median price, what I was puzzled about when I saw it, it's about a half a million dollars in Collington and Roanoke Island. And I was puzzled by the monthly payment being almost $1,000 a month different to purchase the same value house. I wasn't sure how that would work. And again, I'm not trying to put you on the spot right now. I'm just saying that was a question that popped into my mind.

Well, the taxes are – there's a different tax rate. I know that right off the top of my head. You know, the housing – the house values are slightly – sales prices are slightly different, and so that does make some difference. I well it was yeah one percent the insurance so when I run these calculations there were some assumptions that I put in there I put in the exact tax rate I've used a one percent cost of the house as the insurance which probably is low and so it was calculating them there may be I may have made a typo there, but the numbers were being run not by Donna Kreef's math, but by the formula in the program. And so all I know to say is that- That's fair.

All I would ask you is maybe a follow-up to confirm that, yes, it is $1,000 a month different to own a value home in Collington versus Roanoke Island. And I will- A year, I would have bought.

Right.

A month, I'm struggling with.

I'll correct that typo when I send it back to you.

Question two. the $300,000 median sales price. That assumes under the land trust model there's no down payment, so a qualified buyer doesn't have to come up with a down payment, which is huge. And the $300,000 number, we're going to see a presentation later today from Mr. Sproul that will have four units in a multi-unit teacher housing project, and the cost to produce those construction-wise, not land, is about $300,000. and I'm going to inquire Mr. Sproul the size of those apartments because I'm wondering if you have any assumed or thought about the size of these land trust homes that are being used in this example.

Right, so what we're thinking is that they will be anywhere from probably 800 to a max of 1,200 square feet, depending on the number of bedrooms that they have. Right. And that's going to make a big difference.

I wasn't looking at any more specific than that. That's fine. So that roughly we're looking at a market of $300 a square foot to construct one of these on a piece of property without a purchase price required. And the payments then, frankly, they look reasonable in that 2,100, 2,200 range. So that's very helpful as an illustration, too. Thanks.

And in that illustration, you'll see that the interest rate that I used was 5.125 from USDA, and that was just a number that... come up in some of my research. But there are opportunities for that interest rate to be lower than that, depending on what USDA program you go with. So that would be even better and help with that. Those numbers right there.

And again, the monthly payment, $2,122, is the payment of the principal and interest on the loan plus property taxes plus insurance.

Right, and private mortgage insurance where there's no... Oh, they need PMI for this. Well, I factored that in there. The program automatically does that when you don't have the 20% down payment.

Thanks, Donna. That's all I've got.

Thank you, Commissioner Rosk. Mr. Kreef?

All right. My first question is the land that you're going to be putting into this land trust. How do you all intend to acquire that land?

Well, we're working on those details. What I am envisioned is that there would be some sort of transference from the county or there would be some sort of lease document. Previous efforts of the county Back three or four years ago, there were documents prepared where they were leasing the land from the county under very similar circumstances.

So y'all are leasing the land from the county and then re-leasing it?

Perhaps. We're working out those arrangements on that.

I don't see how this is an opportunity for homeownership. They don't own the land. This isn't what we talked about. Okay.

Since I'm standing up here, I'll answer that question. And so under the Community Land Trust, they lease it, but in the terms of the mortgage, they own the land. So they get that benefit of home ownership because the 99-year lease is considered under the North Carolina General Statutes. They recognize that as the ownership.

Let me help you. Go right ahead. The underlying, when you do affordable housing, there's multiple ways to keep it affordable. One is you sell it with covenants. One is you lease it. One is you do a land trust. And they're all similar methods to make sure that you keep it in the affordable housing flow over time. The key to the land trust that you're doing here is it allows the homeowner to create equity. And that's the key to whether you call it ownership, you call it lease, you call it whatever you want to call it. As long as you're allowing the owner to create equity that they can use to get out of the affordable market into the regular market, then you've done the same thing as if you owned it in fee simple title to all the dirt and everything. Ground leases are used all the time throughout in commercial development and real estate development in affordable housing. And the whole purpose of doing that is to keep it affordable while at the same time giving the homeowner the benefits of having owned it by allowing that equity to create and accumulate over time that they can use. to purchase a new house down the road.

I agree slash disagree because you're capping what they can sell the property for. So for $621 more a month on my mortgage, I will have a property in 20 years that's $498,000 now, but it would probably be $1 million in 20 years for that extra $621. $1 a month over the course of 20 years, I've increased my equity by $500,000, $400,000, depending on marketability and other things. While in this, I'm capping myself at $300,000 for my lifetime.

But you're assuming they can afford the $600. The key is people don't have that $600, so they've got to get in at a price they can get in at.

Well, and we recognize that there's a lot of people that that's not going to appeal to because they don't want to miss out on that opportunity to recoup that market value. But I also, based on my conversations with the other individuals who work with these land trusts, there's an opportunity there for folks that may never have an opportunity to own a home to to be able to do so. And so it's, and a lot of the folks that purchase homes in the land trust and elsewhere in North Carolina, it's their family's first home purchase. And so it's that first step toward generational home ownership, which is something that is one of our core values and that we like to focus on. And so it's not the perfect answer, but it is a good solution. Yes, sir.

I think it's a good start. Especially with this, you're getting something that you do own for $60,000 less income a year that you have to justify, which is not any comparison to $154,000 or $151,000.

And so you're building equity, but we're also hoping that you're able to save some money as well because your housing costs maybe will not be beyond that 30% metric. Maybe you're paying 36% of your household income now or 45% of your household income. So if you can get into one of these land trust units, you're building equity, but at the same time, you're building up your savings accounts so that you can get out of that land trust unit at some point and purchase that one in the private market and realize that traffic at some point in time.

This is a middle ground. you can afford to buy, then you buy and you can create equity. If you can't afford to buy in today's market, you rent. And when you rent, you don't get any equity. When you create this land trust, you're in the middle ground, you're getting, you're putting money in, but you're going to get a return on that money as well. And so it's, better for renting for those that can't afford to buy. And it benefits those people because they have an opportunity to roll that equity in the future. what it's all about.

It also benefits the program through the cyclical nature of buying back and then being able to release in the future to the next generation.

Absolutely. It checks that box. And some of the concerns that we've heard from the community is, well, how are you ensuring that it's not going to be used as a short-term rental? You put that in the ground lease. And it's that cycle. The cycle is very important there.

And for the property that we were putting in, one of our key things was that we had to make sure that it always stayed affordable. We weren't going to donate County owned land publicly owned land into a program that allowed someone to sell it down the road at the market rate. And now it's no longer affordable at all. Once the first owners used it and sold it, it's no longer affordable. So we had to have a method to keep it in that affordable market. And you do that by capping the amount of price escalation that you can get over the life of that loan of that property. And that keeps it affordable, by the formula that's used. But at the same time, as I've stressed, allows that owner to get equity, which benefits him way beyond renting.

Don, one more thing. So we had a conversation three years ago, two years ago, when you guys were setting this thing up. And thank you, Malcolm, Donna, for all the work you've done on this and all the members on your task force. You've done a great job. In the conversation, we were talking about the placing folks, the individual, the players within the communities that were the movers and shakers. They're making decisions beforehand that denied housing all over Derrick County. Do you think having those guys on your task force now has freed up a little bit of a more optimistic stance from the town's standpoint? Do they have more ownership now since you're saying that some of them have given money?

I think so. They've all been coming to the meetings and some of them, the individual representatives have actually gone back to their local governments and said, you know, the Housing Foundation is, you know, I think we need to participate and they've been successful in securing some of that funding. You know, that's a hard question to answer. You know, clearly we're never gonna have these units in the town of Duck. But they are participating and they've been very actively engaged and very interested in the land trust concept. And so I do think it's our idea to have them at the table and to have them involved has been helpful. I think since they are there and they are participating, they're not actively out there, at least to my knowledge, speaking against us.

And I was just referring to the Bowser Town, the teacher properties, and so forth like that, which we'd have to have Manny's blessing to a certain extent.

No, sir. I think we can do it without central wastewater. Good. Fantastic. That's what the concept plan that we talked about with the UNC School of Government was on-site wastewater.

Great.

Control your own destiny.

That's correct. Mm-hmm.

Anyone else from the board? Just one last one. Given the focus on the community land trust, which again, thank you, very, very helpful explanation and illustration, there's really no additional energy or effort going into any multiunit housing because of the four units under one roof density.

Well, technically that's considered multifamily, but under the North Carolina Building Code, you get the benefit of it being considered a residential structure in terms of how it's constructed, the fire codes and whatnot. So I envision that us moving forward, there will be a mixture of some smaller scale multifamily, four units under one roof is multifamily, but not... large units that have, you know.

Like we had a 48 roughly unit plan for Bowser Town for that property and we ran into the wastewater handling issue with Town of Manio. Nothing like that is on the docket for the Dare Housing Foundation. Is that fair to say?

That's fair to say at this point, yes. Okay.

To your point, if you're looking. In theory, if your land and your septic area would do it, you could do a series of four-unit things. It's when you connect them all together that you create the commercial code requirements that creates that expense. So doing pods of four can give you some density, not as great a density, but more density than you would get otherwise.

Yeah, because once you add that fifth unit, your construction costs just about double due to the commercial aspect of it. Don, I think this is an excellent idea that you all have come up with. It's definitely a way to do the first step to homeownership, and I applaud you for your efforts on this and everybody in the housing.

I have a quick question, too. Yes, ma'am. And this is maybe a question for Bobby. So when we identified the public lands that were included in the 2024 report, some of those lands were just individual properties. I know there were several in the road, Anthony Salvo area that were just random. And so, and their County owned. So what would be like, how, how does that work if it was to transfer or lease to the foundation? Like how does, is it, how does that process start? Like, what does that look like?

Well, when I've been done or Malcolm can correct me if I'm wrong, as they go through the process and figure out, what we want to do and where we want to do it. If whatever property they choose to use, if the county owns it, they'll come to us and say, here's our plan. Here's what we want to do with this property. Will you all donate it? And at that time we'll say, it'll go into a land trust and here are the terms and the conditions and here's how it stays affordable. And are we prepared to put public property in it? Here are the rentals or the prices and all those details will be in that when we get to a place where we're ready to build.

Okay, great. Thank you. Correct. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Okay. Anyone else? I don't understand why we can't sell the land at tax value to the person. And they actually own it. That's right. They don't have the money to buy it, but they can afford $2,122 a month. I can give somebody a piece of land at tax value, 1,500-square-foot lot, around $18,000. They can go to Elizabeth City and buy a trailer, a brand-new nice one, for $80,000. Then $15,000 for septic and water hookup if it's in a zone of water. You may have to do a well depending on where the property is. Another $15,000 insurance. All said and done, you're in for $150,000 instead of $300,000. How is that not more affordable? And you own the property and increase the equity in yourself.

How do you keep it affordable when they get ready to sell it?

For the next generation.

And how do you get them to qualify for a loan?

How do you get them to qualify for a loan? It's only a $100,000 loan. Anybody who can't get a $100,000 loan is not going to be able to afford this.

Under this, there's programs that will help them qualify for things. Are we done?

I think we're done, but before you leave, Donna, first of all, thank you for responding to my request to do this update and to answer those questions that I had sent you. I was expecting... it to take a year or more to get the answers that we received today from your housing foundation board. And I want to commend you and the Vice Chair Fearing and the board members for the work you've done to date. Because quite honestly, it's only been eight months And I would have expected what you presented to us today to take much longer time frame. So we're on the right path. Nobody sitting up here on this board can criticize, at least I don't know how they could criticize, what's been accomplished to date and moving forward. Because quite frankly, this board, I can't tell you the number of years we've been dealing with it. And we didn't get anything done. We even had to turn money back to the state. So I'm commending the nonprofit. I'm optimistic that down the road, we're not going to meet 3,000 units. There's no question about it. But we are working towards making something happen. And I commend you guys for what you're doing. And you've got my total support. moving forward, and anything we can do. to help. I will certainly do my part as a board member to try to help you guys do what you need to be done. The slightest, smallest project is a success in my eyes.

Small steps lead to success. Absolutely. Yes, sir. Thank you so much, and again, thank you for those kind words, and again, thank you for the startup funds that we have. the appointments and Commissioner Balance and Mr. Alton.

I am going to need to conduct an audit, though. There are rumors that Mr. Fearing's compensation has far exceeded industry guidelines. We're going to be looking into that, just so you know.

His compensation is allowed for time lapse.

Thanks again, Donna.

Thank you, sir.

County manager? Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. That brings us to item seven. This is a special use permit application 2-026 submitted by Ashley Orley for a home occupation. And our new planner, Raleigh Jacob, is here to make that presentation to you all. So welcome, Raleigh. Nice to see you. First time before the board. Raleigh, thank you for being here.

Thank you. Good morning. So today I'll be discussing a special use permit application that is submitted for a home occupation at 127 Meekins Drive here in Manteo. The applicant, Ashley O'Yearly, is in attendance today. She is the property owner and resides on site, and she will be the one that is operating at this home occupation. The site is zoned R1, which is low-density residential, and home occupations are permitted as a special use in this zoning district. The applicant is proposing a dog grooming service as the home occupation. And just so everyone has an idea of what a home occupation is defined as, it is a profession or occupation carried on by a member of a family or a member of a recognized profession residing on the premise, provided that no merchandise or commodity other than that produced on the premise is sold on the premise. The applicant is proposing to conduct the home occupation in a spare room in her house with the separate existing egress or entrance and exit. Home occupations are limited to 25% of the floor area of the structure in which they're being conducted in. The existing room that she has proposed is approximately 192 square feet, and the applicant has submitted with their application a floor plan showing that less than 25% of the structure's floor area will be used for this service. Any modifications of the structure will require applicable building permits issued by Deer County Planning and Inspections. There's also attached with the memo a copy of the property survey and a floor plan that you can review. The applicant has indicated in their application that all proposed grooming services will be by appointment only with no more than four appointments scheduled daily and that no boarding service will be provided. Um, they propose grooming facility is located within a fenced portion of the property and her property is already fenced, but there will be a separate portion of, uh, towards the entrance and exit that is separate from her, um, dogs that she owns personally. Um, There's also been added to the draft SUP requiring that all customers' dogs are to be leashed when outside of the fence property. So exit the car, they're leashed to the fence portion, and she can unleash them once they get inside that fence. The Adair County Planning Board has reviewed the special use permit application and associated site plan at their June 2nd meeting. The Planning Board discussed and established hours of operation with the applicant and those hours are incorporated into the draft SUP. At the close of the discussion, the Planning Board found the site plan and conditions of the SUP to be reasonable and appropriate for the proposed home occupation. And if you have any questions or further concerns, Ms. Oyerly can come up and answer them for you.

I just have two things that I'd like to ask. One is parking availability when you're operating a business in a residential neighborhood. Obviously, you don't want the customers parking over on the neighbor's side of the yard because parking is full. There's plenty of parking available.

Yes. She has a driveway, and they're just going to be dropping the dogs off, leaving, and she'll give them a ring when.

And only for a day. For a day, yes.

There's not a load of traffic.

Going to be overlapping in parking. Okay. And then the second is septic. Is there going to be enough – because it's going to be a lot more water for probably operating the business than operating the bedroom as a person living there, showering, shaving, things like that.

Yeah, so it's just going to be a – I believe she discussed with us adding a sink. So, I mean, you know, running one more sink for four dogs, I don't believe that will overload the septic. And if it needs to be discussed with environmental health, that can be done. Okay. Yeah.

Has they gotten comments from her neighbors?

We received two phone calls once the property was posted, and both phone calls had no concerns. They were just kind of wondering what the occupation was going to be.

And nobody's had any objection?

No, ma'am.

I did a home-based business years ago, and I applaud you for your efforts in trying to make things work for you, so...

You want to start your own business in your own house. That's the America I love. I'm glad that, glad this made me feel a lot better today.

I'll make a motion to approve that. Oh, no, no, no. I'm sorry. You're right. You're right.

I'm sorry. A couple. Right.

Yeah. Um, first of all, for the record, um, everyone that's here to testify today has been sworn already. So then the, Information you've heard is sworn testimony, and this orderly has been sworn as well. The second thing I would say is, is there anyone else here that would like to present evidence concerning this matter? I see no one, and so we would close. Well, no, we won't. We'll go back to Ms. Orley here. Is there anything else that you would like to add to what's been said?

No, not that I can think of. The parking issue, I do have a long driveway, and I am going to move my car for the day, and then they're just going to park where my car normally is. That way I still have a driveway for us to get in and out of, too, if we need to.

Yeah, a lot of people just drive. That's great.

Yeah.

The parking side, and I'm aware of the location. Yeah, it's a good location. That's just something he knows is going to come up eventually if you're not careful with it.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I understand.

All right. A couple of questions. Do you consent to the entry of the file that's on this matter to the board as evidence?

Yes, sir.

All right. And do you confirm the testimony that was given previously by Mr. Jacob? Yes, sir. And do you agree to the terms and the conditions of the SUP?

Yes, sir.

Okay. That's all that I have, Mr. Chairman. With that, we close the evidence, and it's time for you, unless you all have other questions. We have other questions.

Go ahead. I've got one question. With this business, especially with dog grooming and stuff, I do understand there's a lot of people that are handicapped and have dogs that need to be groomed and stuff like that. Is this handicap accessible?

Yeah. I can always also go to their car and get their dog for them and then bring their dog back to them if need be.

Okay.

Yep.

Obviously, Ms. O'Yearly, we want you to be successful. I'm concerned about the no more than four grooming appointments scheduled daily. If you're doing a great job, and hopefully this is a success to you, is that a concern of yours, of the four appointment limit per day?

No, sir. That's about what I do. I do groom now at PetSmart. And I do about four or five dogs a day.

And I was going to ask you, could you, I guess you're doing it physically, want to do more than four a day?

I mean, I could if I wanted to, yeah.

Yeah, so don't limit yourself on the application. Bump that.

Well, hang on, guys. Before we start telling her how to run her business.

It's more of a time restraint, and because I'm doing one dog at a time, so it would be the dog would drop off, it would be groomed, the owner would come to pick it up, and then I would do the next dog. Right now I'm doing four to five at PetSmart because I'm taking two to three dogs at a time. Got it. So that's kind of where the four – no more than four appointments comes from.

And just so you know, she has the ability to come back and amend this if she needs to.

I know. I mean, that's why I asked the question. All right. Anyone else have any questions? All right. With that, we'll close the evidentiary portion and then it would be for you all to deliberate. Okay. The floor is open for additional discussion. Motion to approve. Second. Second. Oh, you've trumped Ms. Balance. It's a motion. Yeah, way to go, guys. Way to go, guys.

So let me tell y'all, let me just tell y'all something.

This girl is Monroe Bateman, the coon dog, approved.

He's a good boy.

All right.

I might have to bring Leroy up here.

There's a motion on the floor about Commissioner Bateman to approve. I would assume Commissioner Balance would second.

Absolutely. I yield to Commissioner Balance. It's about time.

I move that SUP 2-2026. Yeah, finish it. An associated site plan for the home occupation submitted by Ashley. Located at 127 Meekins Drive in Manny will be approved.

All right. So motion on the floor. There needs to be a second. Commissioner Bateman seconded that motion. The floor is open for additional discussion. Hearing none, those in favor of that motion signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like said. Motion carries unanimously. Congratulations.

So I do have a question. So I've got to take Monroe to Meekins Drive now?

I mean, I don't normally do Monroe. It's normally Alyssa that does Monroe. Okay. But, I mean, you can always bring Mover if you want.

You need to know who's grooming your dog.

I thought she was. Oh, it's Alyssa that does Monroe.

You are now.

Thank you.

County Manager. Yes, sir. That brings us to Item 8 on the agenda. This is a public hearing on a zoning text amendment to Section 22-2 of the definitions. This was submitted by the county to correct a definition in NOAA If you would make that presentation before we have the public hearing.

Yes, sir. Morning, Chairman and Commissioners. Before you, as Bobby stated, this is a Dare County initiated zoning text amendment to Section 22-2 definitions of the Dare County Zoning Ordinance. The amendment seeks to align our definition of family with that of the 2018 North Carolina Building Code or Residential Code. In January of 2021, the North Carolina Building Code Council amended their definition to increase the number of unrelated individuals that can occupy a single-family dwelling unit. Originally, the state's number and our number was five, and the state has updated that number to eight. In the document that was submitted to the Building Code Council, the state's reasoning behind that amendment was, has recognizing that the family is no longer traditional nuclear family of a mother, father, and two kids, and that the housing shortage and increased cost of home ownership has resulted in an increase of number of people sharing in the expense of owning and or maintaining a home. It was stated prior in the housing presentation that several amendments have been made to the housing code. One of those is the reduction from the commercial code that four units underneath one roof are underneath the residential code. Those amendments track at the same time that this amendment to the definition of family was made. Amending the Dare County definition to reflect the North Carolina residential building code will keep our zoning ordinance consistent with the state building code, reducing ambiguity between the two, and will foster an increase in long-term housing options across Dare County. The Dare County Planning Board reviewed this in June. They found it consistent with two policies in the Dare County land use plan. At the end of their discussion, they recommended favorable action and found it consistent with those policies.

All right, any questions of the board?

I've got one question. For a single-family home, a limit of eight persons, I've got a blended family that I know, and between the mother and father, they have eight children.

They would be related by either marriage or law at that point in time, so that does not apply to this family. So it does not apply. No, it would be somebody owning a home and then them renting rooms in their home to somebody else that was not of a legal relationship or blood relationship.

Okay. So that's where the eight persons comes into play.

Correct.

Okay.

Anyone else? Is there a motion to approve? Mr. Chairman, we've got to have a public hearing first. Oh, I'm sorry. Excuse me.

Go ahead. Anything else that you all need before we conduct a public hearing? No. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, now it's time it's been set aside for the public hearing on this zoning text amendment that's just been described. The rules from the public hearing earlier this morning apply. Does anyone here want to speak to that issue? I see no one. Does anyone from Buxton want to speak to that issue?

No comment from Buxton.

With no public comment, with no one speaking at the public hearing, we close the public hearing. And, Mr. Chairman, it's for you to deliberate and take action. Okay. Any further questions?

Pleasure of the board. And if you make a motion, please make the motion that reflects what's requested in the motion. And your documents needs to be specifically stated. Applying the consistency with their county land use plan. Yeah. Is there a motion? If not, then I'll make the motion. I move that the draft amendments to the definition of family in section 22-2 definitions of be adopted as recommended by the planning board. A statement of consistency and reasonableness as prepared by the staff is adopted as part of my motion. Second. Motion's been seconded by the vice chair. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like signed. Motion carries unanimously. Thank you. Thank you, Noah.

Chairman, that brings us to item nine on the agenda. At our last meeting, we presented to you an ordinance, a proposed ordinance for restricting the sale of Kratom in Bexar County. We chose to have a public hearing on that. I think in your original board package, you had one version. In the meantime, Sheila and I, Chief Deputy Derringer and the sheriff and others had met looking at what was proposed from the board of health rules to how would we then enforce that if we made that a county ordinance. And so what you have in front of you is a little bit different than what was presented to you at the last board meeting and the changes and she was going to talk about some of that stuff are there one to give the deputies the ability to enforce it without having to send it off for testing and all that kind of stuff. So with that said, I'll let Sheila present this, and when she's completed her presentation and you've asked your questions, then we'll have a public hearing and you can decide what action to take after. What you have before you is the current version that she's going to be speaking from.

Welcome this morning, Sheila.

Good morning. Thank you. So the version you have in front of you in print and that you received an email last night, the goal of this version twofold, as Bobby indicated, one, to make sure that it is enforceable by law enforcement. The other really is just to make it more simple, both for a retailer to understand what is allowed and what's not allowed, also for the public to understand that. So you'll notice one of the first things that's different under definitions was the addition of a term called compliant kratom product. And basically that is then kind of the premise of this ordinance. If you're not selling a compliant kratom product, This would be to anyone over 21, because under 21, it doesn't matter what it is, it's going to be prohibited to be sold. But if you're not selling a compliant Kratom product, then that's going to be a violation of this ordinance and enforceable through law enforcement. And then under that definition, they are also in the ordinance, there's specific requirements for labeling. That way folks would know what they are purchasing. So if a product is not labeled with the requirements that's specified under Section 115-3, excuse me, yeah, Section 3, that is C. If it's not meeting those requirements, then it also would not be a compliant Kratom product. So hopefully it just clears up the language a lot. It answers some of your questions last time about just all of the language, about the modification of the 7-OH. So, you know, the biggest issue... With this product, if you are modifying the concentration of the 7-OH, it is highly addictive, basically similar to an opioid, and certainly we know what's happened with the opioid epidemic. So this really tries to define that. 7-OH is naturally occurring in the kratom leaf, but it's at a trace amount. The issue is when that is either synthesized or adulterated to increase that concentration, which makes it a... Very concerning product with lots of issues related to the addictive nature and then side effects as well from use. Chief Deputy is here as well if you do have specific questions related to the sheriff's enforcement aspect of this.

Thank you, Sheila. Our chairman of our housing saving lives task force is here. Does he have any comment about this issue that he'd like to share with us? Mr. Wiley-Overman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Board. Yeah, we've been looking at this now for several months. I don't remember how many months it's been now, but it's been quite a while. And we've looked at Kratom. It was one of those things that all of a sudden popped up. It hadn't been really studied very much. I think Commissioner Bateman several months ago, again, brought a package in here that he picked up at a gas station or a convenience store very close to First Light High School. I believe that's where he found it. It was, I think, 20 bucks or something like that, which any kid could get it, and there were no regulations on it at all. As time has progressed, what we have found is just exactly what Sheila just told you. You learn more about the problems that it causes with people, very opioid-like, if you will, and we feel like that this is something that really needs to be passed in their county, and hopefully we'll be taking notice of at the General Assembly and have a statute for statewide as it's done in a number of other states right now. So that's where Saving Lives Task Force stands on it.

Thank you, Chairman. Appreciate it.

Mr. Chairman, two things to add before we go to the public hearing so that the public has notice of what we're doing. One is on the enforcement piece, the enforcement piece, really the labeling part of that is what's really going to give law enforcement the ability to enforce because if you have to test it each time, that's going to be problematic on the forcing. So that's what the laving force. The second thing is if you choose to, you can make the violation of this ordinance a misdemeanor. And if you want to criminalize it and make it a misdemeanor, then we have to specify that in the ordinance. And so if you're interested in doing that before we have the public hearing, we need to say that we're going to do that. And then when we adopt it, we would want to add language that says that a violation of this ordinance shall constitute a misdemeanor. Does that meet those criteria?

It does.

So I don't know where you want to go on that right now. If you don't do anything, it's a civil infraction and somebody that violates it can't be arrested. We would have to go after them civilly.

According to this, uh, On 5.4 penalties, if a person violates any part of this rule, then he or she shall be found guilty of a misdemeanor.

Actually, you already added that.

And shall be subject to sanctions.

I was about to say, I think they pre-did that one. Great. So that's already in there. That will be part of the public hearing as well. All right. Any other questions? Sure. Sure. Thank you.

Go ahead, Jeff.

We need to tweak the language. Come on, Jeff.

We might need to tweak the language still further.

Come on, Jeff. So, commissioners, the North Carolina judicial statute, first of all, I'm not an attorney. I'm a law enforcement officer. The 154 statute is a public health statute that the public health board deals with. Chapter 14 is the North Carolina criminal statute that law enforcement deals with. So you have to have both pieces. You have to have the health department. You have to have their board and their statute. But don't get confused. 154 is not a law enforcement statute. 14 is a law enforcement statute. And that's where Mr. Alton is making sure that you clarify. Back in December of 2021, the North Carolina General Assembly said that local ordinances, even though you can specify penalties under Code 1099 that makes it criminal, is not a criminal action. The board must specifically state under each ordinance individually that it is criminal, not civil. Therefore, it has to be criminal under Chapter 14 for law enforcement to take action.

One other thing along those lines, we'll have our public hearing in a moment, but if you leave the criminal provision in it, since the criminal provision was first presented at this meeting, the statute says you can't adopt that at the same meeting in which it was presented the first time. So what you do is you would have your public hearing and then at our next meeting you would adopt it with the criminal proceeding in it if you want to be criminal. If you don't want it to be criminal, then you could adopt it today.

So could they adopt it today as is and then bring it back to add the criminal piece at the next meeting? So there's action or no?

They'd have to wait until the next meeting to do it.

Got it. Okay. So what I'm understanding is in Section 115.4 of what's before you, language needs to be added to that under penalty to specify the Chapter 14?

I don't know.

You don't have to have that. You can deliberate today and you can approve today and it's a civil matter, not criminal, which means law enforcement cannot enforce. You can deliberate today. You can schedule for your next meeting because you've given the public notice of criminal penalty and then motion and adopt at the next meeting, and then it becomes a criminal law enforcement enforceable code.

If you want it to be criminal, we need to do it in the August meeting. That's what I want.

Well, hang on now. I want to make sure that's what we want. And you may be right. First, I've heard this civil criminal debate. I hadn't heard this before. Civil would mean somebody has to file a lawsuit.

Somebody would be us.

As opposed to, yeah, as opposed to criminal, which means Jeff and his guys show up and .

Right. Right.

That was the effect. As a metaphor for you will cease and desist. You have the right to remain silent. So I'm kind of looking at the board here. Is criminal what we're looking at?

I would make the motion to table until next.

We're going to have the public hearing. And then we're going to take no action. And then at the next meeting, it will be on the agenda for action.

And what will 115.4 be changed to?

Nothing. Nothing.

Chapter 138, Section 25 of North Carolina State.

I'm telling you, right.

Because I heard Section 14 and some other numbers thrown around that I didn't recognize.

So, yes. I think that would be changed subject to the sanctions in 14-4 rather than 1-30.

That's what I'm pursuing here.

So where it says Chapter 1-30A, Section 25, it'll be Chapter 14-4 of the North Carolina General Statutes.

Thank you for keeping us straight, Jeff. Chief, the goal that the board wishes.

Okay, now I got it.

All right. Anything else? Any other questions?

Anything else? Sheila?

All right. With that, we would conduct a hearing, the public hearing, with regard to the ordinance to prohibit the sale of kratom or restrict the sale of kratom. If anyone would like to speak to that, the same rules apply. And I think you're here for that. So please come forward, state your name and where you're from.

Good morning, everyone.

Good morning and welcome.

Thank you. My name's Katie. I live here in Dare County. I grew up here and really proud to call this place my home. I find it really important to make sure everyone is aware of really the difference between traditional kratom and 7-hydroxy, which has been brought up. Kratom has been around for centuries, and it's been used traditionally for tons of different things. I work in a retail establishment, Island Eyes, and I've been selling Kratom for about seven or eight years. And in the last year, we've really seen 7-hydroxy become a huge problem. And it's really saddening to see Kratom and the 7-ohm or 7-hydroxy group together. There's a lot of our customers that are past addicts. There's a lot of our customers that are using Kratom instead of prescription medication. And we have a lot of customers as well that have served our country and they no longer have access to those pain relief things that they need. My big fear is if Kratom in general is prohibited, then a lot of people in our community will suffer. I think a lot of people will go to the street for pills, and we all know what that kind of looks like around here, and it's really quite sad. So I'm here to advocate for the regulation of Kratom. I think age restriction is important. That's something that we've always held in really high regards is packaging, lab results. There's a lot of companies out there that don't test for heavy metals and they don't have these requirements on their package. And I think those companies should be held responsible And I also want to note that the DEA, I believe it was in the last 24 hours, did release a statement saying that they have temporarily issued that 7-hydroxyfol under the Schedule 1 drug. And I think that's fantastic. It's a terrible synthetic thing, but traditional kratom, I think it really does save people's lives. I brought a few things, if anyone wants to see, about some packaging that we find to be appropriate when it comes to access to the lab results, a true ingredient list. And I've also brought some examples of products that have that naturally occurring amount of 7-hydroxy. Also happy to answer any questions that you might have regarding, you know, someone that does see the average customer that utilizes this stuff.

Thank you. Anyone have any questions of this young lady?

You're saying that the product you sell does not violate these?

Correct. And I regret that I was not here for the initial meeting regarding this. the requirements for labeling, but I am absolutely in favor of regulations.

But you sell this stuff and you're in favor of these regulations?

Correct. Good. All righty. Can I possibly give these items to you guys to look at?

Yes, ma'am.

So this is my example of traditional cream powder. This is the stuff that you would find if you went over to Asia. They're kind of using it like coffee, to be honest. And this is a product that kind of looks like 7-OH products. They're oftentimes pressed tablets of synthetic 7-hydroxy. This is traditional Kratom. And you'll see on the very back of this that naturally occurring about seven hydroxy. Typically, any more than that is really severely addictive. We've seen young people, we've seen active members of law enforcement come in that are actively addicted to it. And it's something we're really worried about.

So I appreciate your time, guys. Where do I buy this? Is that the only outlet? We have one location here on the Outer Banks. No, no, I apologize. Are other retailers competing with you with Island Eyes selling this?

Yes. Our competitors do openly sell 7-Hydroxy.

Okay. They sell both.

They sell both.

Okay.

they're not even really familiar with what they're selling because it's oftentimes labeled as Kratom. So it's a really touchy market. It's my understanding it's a very expensive product. that powder packet right there that retails for $14.99 it is I believe that do me a favor and go back to the mic so we can get you recorded sorry about that

As somebody who retails it, would you say that profit margin is a driving factor? Because I've talked to other people who sell it, and they say it's at their gas station. It's the number one thing they say they sell in a day.

I'm not surprised.

And people are like three and four times a day come in.

A hundred percent. Kratom in general can be habit-forming, but we've seen with the 7-hydroxy, it's immediate. And the companies that try to sell us, I do the purchasing for Island Eyes, so the people that reach out to me, they are very upfront about, if you sell this, people will come back. They know how incredibly addictive it is. And when people call and I tell them, oh, we don't sell 7-hydroxy here, thanks anyway. They're like, oh, we really respect you guys for that. And then they call the next store and they sell it. So we initially started to see this product kind of take over the Kratom industry. About a year ago is when we started receiving samples and people coming in every once in a while looking for it. And now we get calls... three to five times a day, people asking if we sell it. Do we know where to sell it? And like I mentioned before, it's not just one type of person. It's your neighbor, it's your cousin, it's anyone that saw it at the gas station and said, oh, plant-based energy, let me try that. We have always avoided it, even though we know It is a cash cow. It would make us so much money. Kratom in general does have a pretty beneficial profit margin. But truthfully, in our industry, no more than the hemp products, no more than the tie-dyes and the incense. So, yeah.

So let me ask you, this is a powder.

Yes, sir.

What would you mix it with? Water?

You can mix it with water. We also sell that powder pre-capsuled into a little gel capsule.

Is that what this is?

That's more of a pressed capsule. Okay. Yep. So the powder, it's really the root of the plant. I believe it's pronounced Mitra Regina Speciosa. And that plant is traditionally ground down to that really, really fine powder. that you can take in powdered version or you can take in capsules.

So what would this make? How many ounces would this make if you mixed it with water?

So that is two ounces of product. And a good way to look at it is an average serving size is about two to four grams. And in two ounces, let's do some math here.

You got about 16 doses in there.

So that's what I'm trying to figure is how many doses do you have? You should take them back there.

So there's 28.

Methinks the chairman inquires too much. Are you considering a... I got enough problems.

So, yeah, between...

I want to understand the product.

That package there...

This says it's 10 calories. How about that?

Asking for a friend.

About 14 to 16 serving sizes is what's recommended for that bag.

Well, the reason I ask is... My good fellow commissioner Michael asked a question about the fact that it's expensive. So I was thinking if this was one shot, he's right. This would be a really expensive product.

The expensive nature comes in more with the extract products. For example, we have a shot of Kratom liquid. Once again, no 7-hydroxy in that product. It's recommended three serving sizes, and those retail for $24.99. It is habit-forming for folks that are, you know, kind of accustomed to that or people that have that in their nature. Exactly.

And that's why I think...

Regulation is important. Serving sizes are very important. Packaging is very important.

You took enough pictures.

Well, it sounds like you're doing business the right way, and as Rob said, you don't have to worry about getting what you say. Pop. Thank you. Pop.

Well, thank you for your comments.

Thank you. I appreciate your time, everyone.

Thank you. No, these are to pass for y'all to see. Those are evidence. This is evidence. Put it in the evidence locker. Right.

Mr. Chairman, just for our record, there was also, I think you all had an email on your desk from Leslie and Jeff France commenting that they wished that you would ban Kratom sales. So in support of it. Other than that, we've got perceived nothing else. Right. And so absent a motion, we'll move on to the next item. We'll bring it back on the next agenda now that we've had the public hearing and we've presented it for the first time.

Do we ever ask if there's any comment?

I didn't ask. Is there any comment from Buxton?

No comment from Buxton.

Chairman of Task Force would like to make a comment.

Thank you again, Ms. Chairman, Commissioners. I just have a question, if it's appropriate for the young lady that just presented her case, and that is on the products that were just shown, the powdered products or the pressed capsules or the regular capsules, is there any reason, and the reason I'm asking this is that things that are legitimate tend to be made illegitimate by the folks in the illicit drug industry. And that is, is there any reason that any of those products could not have fentanyl or xylosine or something like that added to them and made available on the street? That was actually my question.

To answer his question, all the products that we purchase do come with lab results that will specify the exact amount of kratom. They oftentimes will test for heavy metals. And I don't recall if fentanyl tests are in those currently, but I think it would be really easy for companies to implement that. Being that kratom, it's a high alkaloid compound, And that's why oftentimes when people hear kind of these kratom horror stories, it's because they've mixed this high alkaloid compound with other things that tend to lead to an overdose or overdose symptoms. It's very, very, very rarely associated with just kratom. And when it is, you can... find the reports of it being 7-hydroxy in their system, not just the Mitrigangia speciosa. So I don't see how Fentanyl really could get introduced into the manufacturing product of these items currently. And I also don't see the likelihood of people trying to make street kratom. I think there's enough Percocet and heroin and all of these already opiates that I don't see why people would go out of their way to manufacture something that's a fake opiate, if that makes any sense.

When someone comes in to purchase, do you make those results available to them?

Absolutely. Yes, ma'am. We keep all of our lab results on hand.

By batch numbers?

Yep. And all of our products, too. We get people that reach out to us very regularly to sell their product. And if it doesn't have batch numbers, if it doesn't have QR codes and active ingredients lists, and honestly, just sales reps that will answer our questions, then we don't do business with them. Protecting our customers and kind of assisting them with a good quality of life here is our number one goal, so.

So all your products come with lab results?

Yes, they do.

Sheila, is that something that's in here, like as far as being a compliant product, making these places show these lab results?

To be able to put the concentrations that is a requirement specified in the ordinance, they have to have lab results. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to put those concentrations.

All the places selling this stuff got to do the same stuff that she's.

Yes, sir.

Would we want to add language that required a lab result cross-referenced against a batch number so they had to have that on hand?

We certainly could. I would definitely do that.

Okay.

I can add that as, yep, no problem.

And I think as consumers, consumers need to be aware that if they go in to purchase it and they're looking for, that they should ask that question. Like, I want to see your lab results, and I want to see it match the batch number that I'm purchasing.

Yeah, because I agree with Wally. I mean, there's nothing to stop somebody from putting something in a package that says 100% kratom, and it's got something else in it. Right.

It gives Jeff the ability to enforce it, because he can ask for the batch number in the list, and if they don't have it, they violate the ordinance.

I appreciate the question. Thanks, Wally.

Thank you. So I've got to say something here. First of all, thank you for what you do and the way that you carry yourself and the way you run your business. That's the way it's supposed to be done. We first brought this thing, it was about three years ago, when we first introduced it. And it was a total, at that time, we were looking for a total ban on Kratom. Remember? Remember? It was a total ban. It wasn't, it was right after. And then we, we evolved to the adulterated, um, Kratom and then seven Oh H came up, which was a total different animal. I'm really happy with through the, um, the saving lives task force through the health department and through this board, how we've evolved to get where we are now, because we're really doing something through compromise. That doesn't hurt the person that's a veteran. It doesn't hurt the person that's trying to stay off of alcohol or drugs with this product if it's not stepped on. That's what the ultimate goal was in the first place is not to harm people, is to help them and to make sure that they're safe in taking it. That packet that I brought over here, It was about two, three years ago. It had nothing written on it. What was in it? Nothing. It just had creative across of it, 60 pills. And I think I paid $58 for it. And it was within a quarter mile of a school. And you could go in there at 15 years old and buy that packet, which is terrible. Y'all. So I'm really happy with the way we've evolved to this. I didn't mean to sound aggressively about making it a misdemeanor, but I think it needs to be that way because if you're doing wrong, there needs to be some deterrent to keep you from doing it again. I agree. So thank you all for what you're doing. Like I said, I'm impressed with you. You're doing a great job.

All right. Chairman, that brings us to item 10 on our agenda. This is a Hatteras Island grant application. I'll turn it back over to you.

All right. I've received a letter from a highly educated young person in Hatteras Island, Alex Hodges, assistant chair to programs and clinical professor, nursing practitioner, education in the College of... nursing from ECU. And they're preparing a grant application. And Alex will serve as the principal investigator and collaborator with ECU. It appears that Hatteras Island residents, some have issues. with environmental disruption, specifically about road closures along NC-12 and depression trends amongst residents on Hatteras Island. In this application, they're applying for a grant will aim to advance the understanding of sensitive mental health outcomes, inform residents of resilient infrastructure and health access planning, and support the development of targeted behavioral health interventions for rural coastal populations. And this grant will help with certainly the residents among Hatteras Island with these depression issues. If the project is funded, then Alex would like the Dare County Board of Commissioners to help them through outreach, public communication, and potential funding. surveys related to it, which we could do through our public information office. They're not, he's not looking for funds or anything like that from the board. Just if, if this, uh, grant is awarded that we will, uh, support their efforts in educating the Hatteras residents. So I present that to you as, uh, uh, really no action today. Uh, just keep you informed. Um, if they get, that grant application that we would certainly have no problem of engaging the community and letting them be aware of this particular grant that's been applied for. So no actions required. I just bring it to your attention. County Manager?

So that brings us to Item 11 on the agenda and we have a contract for beach grass planting and Dustin Peel will present that.

Welcome this morning Dustin.

Good morning Mr. Chairman, members of the board. Shoreline stabilization is part of our special use permits for our beach nourishment efforts in Buxton and Avon. the county to fulfill those obligations. We, we bid out shoreline stabilization through beach grass plantings. Um, in front of you is the contract that we received or one of the bids that we received. Coastal transplants was the apparent low bidder. They're the same entity, the same group that did it for us. The last nourishment effort we did in Buxton and Avon, they did a great job. Um, what I would ask for you all to do this morning is to approve coastal transplants as the apparent low bidder. approve the contract as it's presented in front of you, and then authorize the county manager to sign that contract.

Any questions of Dustin? Pleasure of the board. So moved. Okay. There's a motion on the floor by the vice chair to approve the coastal transplant as a low bidder and authorize the county manager to sign the contract. Is there a second?

Second.

It's been seconded by? Commissioner Bateman, any further discussion? Excuse me, Kreef. Excuse me, Kreef. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like signed. Motion carries unanimously. Thank you all. Thanks, Dustin.

Chairman, that brings us to item 12 on the agenda. This is the Public Beach and Waterfront Access Program Grant for Havris Village, and Barton Grover is here to present that.

Good morning, Barton.

Morning. How are you all doing today? Is it any better if we couldn't stand it? So the DEQ public beach and waterfront access grant provides funding for pedestrian access to obviously public beaches and or public trust waters. The grand deadline is the end of this month. They are limited in their funding, and they do require a match. And so the proposed project would be a grand application submittal for the acquisition of the property where the former Channel Bass restaurant was located to provide a beach, I mean, sorry, to provide a kayak launch, dock launch, and provide a park and whatever other amenities would be desired. Again, like I mentioned, you can't get this with one grant. You'd have to parlay this with one, maybe two more grants to provide the total funding needed. And that is what is proposed to try to obtain grants at no cost to dare County, um, to create a park at this location. Um, and if the board does desire an application is submitted, uh, or be submitted, uh, I would also present to the parks and rec advisory council as well as the other two grants require a public meeting with the Hatteras village residents. So we would also host that and determine their interest in, in having a park there and what they would desire. Um, I've provided some excerpts from the Parks and Recreation Needs Assessment, just highlighting a few of the top ten responses for Hatter's Island in terms of what was a really high desire to have, also what was on the lower end of capacity. And those things could be, like we mentioned, a dock and kayak launch, a playground, a gazebo with picnic space, a cork. And so just wanted to determine the board's desire if this was of interest in applying for this grant. And the property owner understands the requirement that there has to be multiple grants. This is not a six-month process or a one-year process. This is probably a two-year process. And he is not required to sign a binding letter of intent to sell. It is a non-binding letter is all that the grant agencies require. Feel free to ask any other questions. What exactly is it, Bart? I'm trying to look at his map here. I don't know where that is. So it's right there on the right beside the new, I guess, Slash Creek Bridge that was recently developed across from that medical center property that Dare County owns.

And you're all going to put like a little park or a boat ramp or something in there if you get the grants?

Yeah, I think kayak launch, dock.

Pickleball court.

It could be a pickleball court. It could fit.

I'm all for it, but not a boat ramp.

I know there was mentions of splash pads. Obviously those are kind of expensive to install, and that would be something for later after the acquisition. And all of these grants would require a park be developed or a water access, specifically for this grant, a water access.

It's a great site. How big is it? One acre?

Yeah, just a hint over one acre, 1.079. Okay, yeah, I see that now.

So the owner of their property would want to sell the property to the county? Yes, he would be interested.

If you recall, Vice Chair, we were offered that several years ago. Exactly, that's what I was thinking.

And he's willing to wait for the grants and all to go through, two-year process? Correct, yes.

Okay, well, that's cool. Good on him. One grant won't be enough to acquire the property is what you're saying. So acquisition would require multiple grants, and then the actual development would require probably a third grant is your estimation?

Yes, and then that would try to take maybe the Outer Banks Tourism Board. They have those grants.

Price match.

And then use as a match for their grants. Yeah, okay. But, yeah, the other two that are coming up this fall and winter, are the Land and Water Conservation Fund and then the Parks and Recreation Trust Fund would be the ones we'd be seeking out. And they fit perfectly. Yes. So, yeah, as long as you provide that kayak launch for this grant, the public water access, and then you provide some sort of playground or gazebo picnic area, you qualify for all these grants. That would be wonderful.

So you're seeking a motion for the board to approve grant application submittal, correct? Correct.

So moved.

Second.

I'll so move that.

All right. It's been moved by Commissioner Ballance, and it's been seconded by Commissioner Burris. The floor is open for further discussion.

You can launch a kayak at a bogey ramp.

Thank you, Barton.

Again, you're going to require a lot of grants, and obviously all these grants are not guaranteed to get, but it's something we can work on.

Let's hope for it. That's a nice sight. Thank you all. All right. Thank you. Those in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like, sign. Motion carries unanimously. We'll take a five-minute break. I call the Dare County Board of Commissioners meeting back to order and I'll turn it over to the county manager.

All right. Item 13 on the agenda on the agenda is the water capital improvement plan for fiscal year 27 through 31. And Matt will make that presentation.

Good morning, Matt.

Good morning.

OK, so I'm going to walk you through the water capital improvement plan at the end, we're gonna ask that you approve the plan and that you approve the capital project ordinance and related budget amendments. So the model for the capital, the water capital improvement plan is different in that it is funded by the water fund itself. The water fund is an enterprise fund, meaning it has to stand on its own bottom. So the profit and loss of the water operations has to fund these capital projects. At the end of this, I'll walk you through the metrics that we use for the operations of the water fund, and just to show that with the CIP included, we're still within those metrics, as well as restoring our E&R replacement fund. Within the CIP is this schedule, and it includes the expansion of the Cape Hatteras water treatment plant to add a third RO unit. In the next year, we would start an engineering study for the construction of a new well at that plant, and then the construction of the well is in the out years of the CIP. portable generators for Cape Hatteras, Avon, and Rodeanthewave Salvo. And then within the model, there is some capacity for preventative maintenance, and so Jessica is working with her team to put together a schedule around that, but that is structured within the financial plan. So this blue line at the bottom of this slide is just showing the growth of that E&R fund. which we drew down for that sound, the water main project in 2025. And at that time, they set a goal to restore it to $8 million, which is half of what was in the fund at that time over five years. So with the addition of these projects, we're still on target for that. So this slide is just the dashboard of that operating plan. And what it is, is The P&L for the water operations, down at the bottom you'll just see the detail of those capital projects to get you to this system surplus or deficit. And that net income number is what's used in this to show the key metrics. So the key metrics that we use for overall operations of the water system is days cash on hand. Um, these metrics are important when we're looking at issuing debt in the future. It's something that the rating agencies look at. And so they look to this dashboard and we give them this annual update. Um, so we target to have a year of O and M, um, cash on hand, and you can see that we are growing towards almost double that. And that will continue to grow as we're restoring that E&R fund. And then total expenses, this is just your total expenses. You would have 220 days cash on hand, and you can see that we're roughly double that. So the reason Why it is so much higher than the target is because we are able to include that emergency repair fund in that calculation. The only thing that we cannot include is this restricted reserve line of this $3,026,000, which is just to say that can't be considered in that calculation. So the only other calculation we're looking at is our debt service coverage. And so we have a target of 2% and 1.5% Parity debt coverage is just if you're planning for a future issuance, you give yourself a little bit more latitude, and that's why that's at two, but you can see our coverage ratios are very healthy at over three. So to summarize, there's new requests. We can afford them within the model. We're still on pace to restore our emergency fund, and they reflect the priority of... Jessica and the Water Department.

So you need a motion to approve the capital improvement plan and adopt the related capital project ordinances and amend the, not amend, but the budget amendments. Exactly. So moved. There's a motion on the floor by the Vice Chair to do so. Is there a second?

Second.

Seconded by Commissioner Bateman. Floor is open for further discussion.

And you did say that the emergency program that we used to pay for the line under the sound last year, that will replenish on schedule. Right. Even with all of this. Exactly.

Yeah. That's great.

Good point. Yeah, that's great. Anyone else? All right. For those... In favor of the motion, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Opposed, like so. Motion carries unanimous. Thank you, Matt.

And then item 14 on your agenda is a reimbursement resolution for the Nags Head EMS station, and I'll turn that back over to Matt as well. Okay.

So this resolution that we're asking you to approve is allowing us to repay ourselves for any costs related to this project with a future debt issuance. So you may recall when we talked about our debt issuance plan, it is not cost effective for us to borrow for this EMS station by itself. So what we're going to do is combine our debt issuance either with hopefully Public Works when we get that approval or potentially the next project and priority line would be the Rodanthe EMS station and then we would have a more cost effective debt issuance. So this is just a step that allows us that when we issue that debt to pay ourselves back.

Motion to adopt the reimbursement resolution.

There's a motion on the floor by the Vice Chair to adopt the reimbursement resolution as presented, and it's been seconded by Commissioner Ross. The floor is open for further discussion. Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Opposed, like said. Motion carries unanimous. Once again, thank you, Matt. Thank you.

Chairman, item 15 on the agenda. At the NCAACC conference in August, we need to appoint a voting delegate to that conference.

Typically, myself, I go to these meetings. And this year, in August, Commissioner Balance is going to go with me. And matter of fact, we're going to be on the agenda. Well, heck, yeah. So I'm looking forward to that meeting. Sorry.

I nominate the chair and Commissioner Balance.

As vice chair.

Second.

Second. All right. There's a motion on the floor by Commissioner Ross. It's been seconded by the vice chairman and was it Commissioner Bateman? Those in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like, sign. Motion carries unanimously. I'm really excited about Murray Ellensman working very, very hard on this PowerPoint so that we can educate all 100 counties on our fishing coalition and what we're trying to accomplish. So we look forward to making that presentation at the annual convention. So, Commissioner Balance, thank you for working so hard. I applaud you both. Thank you. Thank you. We did have a recent meeting a month or so ago, and I think we're getting noticed in Raleigh with this coalition. At least we got one-fifth of the state counties having one voice. So I feel like we're making a difference, and we'll continue to work hard on that.

County Manager? Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, that takes us down to item 16. This is a request from the DARE Education Foundation for an expansion of teacher housing, and we have Susan Rue and Ben Sproul here from the Education Foundation, and then we have various officials from the school board. I don't know who's doing what in the presentation, but I'll turn it over to you, Ben.

Thank you so much. Ben, thank you. Thank you for being here. And folks, Ben, if you don't mind, before we get started, Ben's only been the executive director for how many weeks now, Ben? Just since the spring, yeah. March? Yeah. So he's moved with lightning bolt fashion, and I can't thank you enough, Ben, for what you've done and reached out to our lending institutions and what you have in mind. And very, very much appreciated all your hard work so far.

Thank you so much. I appreciate your support and the support of the board for our teachers and for housing in Dare County. Of course, I've got Superintendent Steve Bassanite here with me. I'd like to thank my board members for coming as well. Susan Rue is our chair. Kip Taub is our vice chair. And Brian Harris up from Hatteras. We've got a great supportive board. And where would you get that last one on?

He's on everything.

He's on everything. We recently went to the soil. He knows I'm messing with him. Good fun, yeah. Go check out his food truck. He's everywhere.

Well, anyway, did you want to say a few words?

I just brought him up here to make me look good. So far, that's working. All right. That's just good. But had a lot of support from all the stakeholders in this project. The slide you see up there, I'm going to put it up there, this is a little rendering of the Run Hill Ridge teacher housing that was built back in 2008. Just to give a little background for the board that may or may not know, or certainly for the public, The DARE Education Foundation was founded in 2002 with the goal to support our teachers and our schools here in DARE County and make them the best they can be by supporting in their most valuable asset, their people. We do that by providing teacher housing at well below market rates as well as teacher grants and doing reimbursements for their continuing education. That's the way we support our teachers here. The main way we do this is with this teacher housing. The units you see here were built in 2008. Let's see if I can work this little thing. We also built, Dara Education Foundation built 12 more units in 2008 down in Buxton. So we have a total of 36 units with teachers in them right now. I think we have about 41, 42 teachers spread across those 36 units. These have been very successful in helping Dare County recruit and retain the best and the brightest teachers. It makes us much more competitive when we're looking for folks who are the best and brightest or looking to work anywhere around this region, and this makes us more competitive because it's easier to make the transition to this area. This also translates into benefits in the classroom through more continuity and having the best teachers there. We're also addressing a growing need. Steve can speak to this. We've had a waiting list for many years now. The capacity is full. The demand continues. We have probably 30 teachers on a wait list right now, and I often tell people that more teachers would be on the wait list if there weren't already 30 people on the wait list. We think we have, how many, 300, 350 teachers in the upper beaches, another 50 or 60 down in Hatteras. Hatteras, it meets the need a little bit better. This is where our critical need is here in the upper beaches. So we're proposing 8 to 12 new units. As the DARE Housing Foundation pointed out, there are Ways to value engineer this by sticking to a maximum of four units in a multifamily because you don't have to get into the commercial costs of ADA compliance and outdoor stairwells and that sort of thing. So these are four units side by side with a firewall in between. It also makes them more quiet for the residents, and I think this really fits the bill. Scaling for impact. Earlier, we've had a number of meetings about this, and I got some feedback from folks at the county that while we were originally planning for eight units, we figured that was what we could really handle. They said, well, do you think you could go to 12? And so I think for not much more money, there are economies of scale, and by their education founding stepping up to take on more debt, we could get to the 12-unit expansion. So that's a little bit what I'm going to tell you about here. If you're familiar with the site, This is the top of the picture is south and the bottom is north. So on the north side of this lot is about a little more than 5.3 acres site there. Back in 2024, their education foundation applied for a grant to do some engineering work so we could figure out what the highest and best use of the rest of this land was worth. And the engineers came up with this plan. You can see in the green at the top, that we've got room for 12 more units after the 12 we're proposing for today for down the road. So there's a lot of options with this site. We are partnering with Overton Contracting, that will be the contractor for this project, and Beacon Architecture and Albemarle Engineering. This group is what we're going to use to have a, I'm looking at my notes here, sorry. This is a design build. That's the phrase I was looking for. Sorry, I caught myself. The design build allows us to look at all the opportunities to save money throughout the entire process. So while we're pitching, while what we have in terms of financing is the cap, the maximum, our goal will be to get this project done way under budget.

Ben, how much was that number per unit you and I were just discussing?

We were just discussing that. We'll get that here to the next slide. I just wanted, before I met to the next slide, at the bottom part of that, I wanted to mention that... Overton has been very generous in that they're doing this as a cost plus basis. So every dollar that we save, they're getting paid a little bit less, but they're going to only do 12% as part of the cost basis. We've got some folks on construction on this board. You know that it's more like 15, 20. So every percent below whatever you consider market rate is saving us $46,000 on this $4.6, $4.7 million project. But to get to your question, here are the numbers for the two sizes of the project, eight units versus 12 units. Through very generous mortgage financing that we've been able to land with Town Bank, Taylor Sugg has been great to work with. We originally were looking at the eight units, and they were able to come up with 2.1 million at 2.9%. Actually, I want to clarify that. It's actually 2 million, and there's, I'm sorry, Yeah, $2.1 million, and then $100,000 is a cash donation from TowneBank. So I want to make sure to give them credit for adding actual cash to the project. And then the second option is the 12-unit option, which is a total project cost of $4.75 million. There's sort of a blended rate there, so that's why the rate is a little bit higher. But the other thing that TowneBank was able to do for us is give us that amazing 2.5% on the eight units, or 2.9%. on the 12 units. Compared to whatever you would consider a market rate for a project of this size, we did have some other banks weigh in and got it below 6 percent But even that comparison is saving us a million dollars over the life of the loan or the life of the project to pay it off. So we are very grateful for that support we're getting from Town Bank, very much the community bank trying to give back to the community. So we couldn't really do this without them. We certainly couldn't do it with this amount of efficiency. And of course, the generosity of the county. to put in the initial capital here is also what allows us to have a mortgage payment that makes it workable for us. Going on to the next slide, I just wanted... Well, before we go, I'm going to ask my question again. Sorry about that.

The cost of the land is zero.

Correct.

We will build 12 units for $4,750,000 so that the construction... with four units under one roof with the associated efficiencies are $400,000 per unit, and the units are somewhere between 1,100 and 1,280 feet. 1,280 feet is the target?

That's the range. I think 1,280 is probably more very ambitious.

Because earlier we were constructing individual single-family homes on land trust for approximately $300,000, one by one, not four under a roof. And I'm not trying to catch a gotcha here, guys. I'm looking at the numbers and I'm trying to ferret out, are you more realistic or are you way over? And the housing foundation at $300,000 is much more realistic, which would reduce the amount of your required loan and construction. I'm trying to sort it out for our understanding, since we're looking at a million dollars in on your project, And we're looking at multiple hundreds of thousands in plus potential county or county-owned land. I'm just trying to get a consistent set of numbers, guys, because we're trying to satisfy a housing need by the vital people that help make our county work. And that's why I'm not asking for a resolution at this moment. What I'm asking for is outside this meeting, I'd like either clarification of why the two are different or maybe a reconciliation. Thanks, Ben.

Appreciate it. Yeah, it is kind of sticker shock when you look at it. We all know what we paid to build our own houses, which might have been five years ago or might have been 20 years ago. These units that exist there today were built in 2008 for $90,000 a piece. So things have gone up, and they've gone a lot up during COVID as well. But I am coming to you with a shovel-ready plan that's been engineered to have a basic site plan, but we're Once we get the go-ahead, we will make sure that we use every dollar as efficiently as possible, and it'll be my goal to bring this in way under budget. We're also going to use this project as a way to help us fundraise, and we'll be looking for capital from elsewhere as well to try to bring the cost down. You asked a question earlier. Actually, I was going to speak to my next slide, which probably would be your next question, which is, it would be anybody's reasonable question next. Can DARE Education Foundation absorb this large $3.5 million loan? And the answer is a resounding yes. And I give you the reasons that I've already stated. We're borrowing this money at an extremely low price, which, again, saves us a million dollars over the course of the loan, but that's about $5,000 a month in savings. The fact that it's a 12% instead of a 20% cost brings that price per square foot down, and $100,000 that has been generously donated by Town Bank towards the project as a whole. On the income side, we also have the benefit, as you see in this slide, that this is quite a moment for us at DEF in that we've been paying for these apartments that were built in 2008 and 2011 for all these years, and our last payment is this August. So our cash flow is about to improve, which is giving us this opportunity to do this at this time.

Ben, what is the rent per unit on these new contemplated 12 units?

Great question. We haven't nailed that down yet, but it should be in the neighborhood of $1,500, which we consider to be about 25% to 30% below market. At $1,500 or $1,550 a month, it brings in about $18,000, $18,600 per month. The mortgage... At the numbers that you're looking at, it comes in about $19.5 per month. So we can make up that difference as well as the additional cost we'll have for insurance. Insurance is a big one, about $1,500, maybe $1,600 per unit per year.

And as you were explaining to us in your data sheet, it's a 15-year amortization with a five-year balloon.

20-year amortization. Sorry, I had a little note there that the next time, you had asked a question about whether it would be refied after the five years. That's sort of standard commercial way banking works is that they give you five years, and then around three and a half, four years, we go back to that bank and other banks and see what the best deal we can cut at that point is.

Great.

With that, I open it up to questions. I hope that you're as excited as I am about this. I think this is going to make a huge deal of difference for our teachers, for our schools, and for our ability to recruit and retain the best and the brightest teachers, which translates to thriving kids in the classroom.

Okay, the board's open for questions. Anyone have any questions?

Yeah, I've got one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when this teacher housing first started on, Was there a number of years that a teacher could stay and then they had to vacate?

It has evolved over time as the whole economy has changed. Currently, our maximum is four years. Four years, right. In previous time periods, there was an accelerated rate so that the benefit could be front-loaded, so that it could be as low as possible at the beginning. We're moving to a new model in the next couple of years where Everyone will pay the same rate year to year. But our goal in the long term is to keep building until we match the demand. And once we've matched the demand, then we can lengthen that number of years. Right now we're trying to maximize the number of teachers that we can get comfortable with the economy here so that they can move into their own market, whether it's renting or buying.

Now, have we lost any teachers because of... being forced out of this housing after four years and not being able to find other housing? Not that we know of.

I don't think so. Have we lost any teachers? Yes. But because they had to move out of housing specifically, I would say the economy is probably the reason that we've lost some of those teachers. But we've also, some of those teachers just simply moved out of Derrick County and still teach here. So I don't think it's been earth shattering that, you know, people after four years were like, we just can't do this anymore and just pack up and leave. But the economics of where we are are the economics. Right, exactly. Okay. Thank you.

And like you said, some of the, we don't really keep the data on that. I think it's worth studying more and being able to ask more questions of folks. But anecdotally, we hear that story all the time that once people feel like, sorry if I'm not near the mic, once folks are comfortable with the area, they see where the opportunities are and if something becomes available in Currituck or they've got a place that works for them financially, they move out. I think Steve Hamph is a great example. He's a higher level teacher, but couldn't have taken the job, except that he had a place to live for six months while he looked for a house. So sometimes you've got folks that only use it for six months, and they move on to the house of their own. It's very valuable for starting teachers, as you know, because, for better or for worse, North Carolina is 47th in teacher pay, and the county is very, has been very generous in the stipend that allows if you get much higher than the rest of the state. But it's still a struggle. It's still a struggle for teachers.

I heard Chicago is like 95,000 average teacher salary in downtown Chicago. Do we have many people going to Chicago? I don't know, but if y'all would pay that, I think they'd come here.

I don't know. I'm just throwing it out there. The attraction of downtown Chicago is schooling.

You would have to pay me a lot more to be in downtown Chicago.

This is sort of our, you know, traditionally midsummer is our turnover on our teacher housing for teachers moving in. So right now our wait list numbers are down a little bit. We're at 19 people on the wait list at the Run Hill site currently. I think... Eight of those are classified and 11 of those would be certified positions that are on the wait list. Buxton right now is really at a turnover point. We have two apartments that are open, but we have two teaching positions, one at the secondary, one at the elementary that we need to fill down there. So that really becomes part of filling those positions and doing interviews when somebody can come in and they're moving from somewhere where they're paying $1,200 to $1,500 a month, and the closest thing they can find down here is $2,000, $2,200. And those aren't the best places.

Right, right. The Buxton units are $1,200.

Yeah. Hey, Ben, if this moves forward, when would they be ready?

I think to not overpromise, I think we're at 15 months. Just approximately. There's about three months' worth of permitting and design. Right. And then the contract that you have in front of you is a 365-day with a couple of carve-outs for hurricanes and whatnot.

Great. And refresh me, and maybe you too, Steve, and county manager. The legislation we referred to earlier that I asked was a teacher-only, and you said no, it's more broadly based to define and include government employees. Does that legislation allow for below-market rentals through some subsidy, or what exactly was that legislation in terms of assisting? Do you know?

The legislation gave the Board of Education the authority to work with a nonprofit to build housing as a benefit to teachers. And then because it's an employee benefit for your workforce, all of those rules that we went through with... average median incomes don't apply. They don't apply. It's a benefit. It's whatever they negotiate, whatever they can afford to do, they can do.

There's no subsidy here. It's just $1,500, which would cover what you're doing, and that would work.

It's a little less than covering the mortgage. We're subsidizing that with rent from all of the properties.

I see. I'm leading up to something, Donna, but go ahead.

No, that was my answer. Yeah, I'm sorry. Where were you going? I'm going to wait until you're done, then I'm going to bring it up. Are there any other quotes?

Reconciling what is being presented here to the board, I take it very seriously, guys. I read your documents very carefully. I read Donna's very carefully, and I'm trying to get beyond the this really feels good to This is why it is specifically, concretely, a positive step we must support for our county, as opposed to, good work, good to see you guys. I'm seeing similarities, and I'm hearing, yep, teacher only housing, teacher only housing, but I tell you, you've got a wait list. What would a wait list be, Malcolm, if we had this available from what you're looking at? I suspect it would be very long. of other people, good, decent, hardworking people, would love to have this opportunity.

Go ahead. Except that we can't provide it there anyway. That's exactly right. We can't provide it.

We can't provide it for any government employee except teachers? Is that what you're telling me?

No, sir.

So there are other governmental employees that could.

There are... If we... Housing... with government money. is restricted in what the rents have to be, how you have to handle it, whether you have to have a reference. There's all kinds of rules that apply for that. Sure.

We went through that with Woda Cooper.

However, when a government entity, a school board, or even the county for that matter, is providing benefits for their employees, then you can fund those benefits. And housing is a benefit. And by funding those benefits for your employees, you're exempt from all those rules. And so what happens here is by making this housing available to teachers and government employees, those are exempt because if a county employee was to go work there, then we've provided money as a benefit to that county employee for living in that home. And if teachers were live there, then they're getting a benefit for being a teacher. And that keeps it out of all the rules that Don and Malcolm have to follow. Okay. That's helping.

Are there any County or government employees living in any of the housing today other than teachers? Not to my knowledge.

No, but when it was, when it, when Buxton first started, they didn't have enough teachers to fill that housing. And, um, in the beginning there were, there was a sheriff's officer that was living there. There was a park ranger that was living there. I think there was the one or two County employees until the teacher requirement was there. And now we have enough teachers to fill them. But if, if we didn't, then it would be a call to it.

And the priority by the statute is for the teachers first that you have to serve.

Yeah. I hear that historical story told a lot, and it's also important to remember that there was the fall of the empire at that time. It was a giant worldwide financial crisis.

Yep, 2008.

Those units were built when there was much higher rent prices, and then rent prices actually dropped. So it's harder to be competitive. Right now, because of the support of the county, because of the support of Town Bank, because of 18 years of building up equity and now having $10 million, $20 million worth of of asset here under management, we're able to go in with a significantly lower than market rate. Yeah, that's awesome. If you had a market rate back then, I think it was $600 a month. If those units had been $300 a month, people would have moved out of their houses to move in there. Right. But at that time, it wasn't that great of a deal. We're giving a great deal to more than 40 teachers right now, and we're about to increase that by 12 or more. Because a lot of times you get two teachers in one of these units.

A question about your, so in 2008, the one in Runhill is getting ready to be paid off in, you said, September. Correct. So I know with keeping those rents low, are you, I mean, are you guys anticipating a lot of, I mean, you're almost 20 years out, like maintenance issues or roofing or whatever that has to be on the existing buildings. Are you factoring that into how you're saving and preparing for that? We know a chiller can...

We just put a, all those things, yeah. We're coming to that age for all those units that are, the Front Hill ones are 18 years old. So we've already seen some turnover of, you know, an increase in the pace of appliances, refrigerators, washers, dryers, hot water heaters. We've also just replaced one of the septic fields. There's three septic fields for those three buildings for 24 units. One of those had to be replaced, like $15,000. So we've had a couple of those happening. So the nice thing about this moment in time for us is because we've retired that debt, our cash flow has increased to the point where we're now able to put away every month for a capital savings for the next roof, the next septic system, and this continual replacement of HVAC. So we're in a much better position financially right now than we've ever been in the history of the organization. We're about to come into our 25th year and celebrate that this coming year in 2027. So we have a lot to be excited about. Great. I believe Commissioner Creaf, you had a question?

Yeah. I want to echo Rob's sentiment on this in the initial question. $400,000 a unit. Now, I understand costs have gone up and all that fun stuff. But if I called Malcolm Farron right now and told him to go to my lot and build me a house for $400,000, 1,180 square feet, I think I can get more than that, can't I? About double, maybe 2,500 square feet.

Was there a question in there? I'm sorry.

I mean, how is it $400,000 a unit for 1,180 square feet?

That's the price that I was given by the contractor. How many contractors bid the project? It's a cost plus contract. It's a cost plus contract. So like I said, I was trying to tell Rob earlier was that as a cost plus contract, we're trying to make sure that we're in the safety zone. This high number is the safety zone. I expect to do this project for a lot less. We've got to get through those steps and find out. And the other thing I was going to say about value engineering goes like this. And Steve understands those are capital plans. If you're building a house for yourself, you expect a certain amount of maintenance. If you're in our business where we're going to own this thing forever, for 100 years, we are going to look at all the ways we can build with tougher materials that last longer because we're in it for the long game. We're going to buy what we can afford that will lower our maintenance costs over the lifetime of the project. So value engineering is something we do within that number. We will look at each decision and go, I think with schools it's about chillers, right? You could do a chiller for a couple hundred thousand dollars, you could do a bunch of little AC units, then you have to replace them all in 15 years. But that chiller will get you 30 years. So we're looking at that in terms of like a 50-year roof versus a 20-year roof, those sorts of things. We're going to do the things, when we math it out, what's the most beneficial to teachers? Because every dollar that we save is a dollar that goes into the classroom. When I go out fundraising on this project and say, would you like to donate $50,000 towards this teacher housing? Because if that mortgage is $50,000 lower, every dollar I save, every dollar DEF saves goes directly into the classroom. Because we're a nonprofit. We're not keeping any of this money. There's no profit here. This is all about the good of the community. So it always seems very expensive right now. I know that it was extremely expensive to build these for $90,000 in 2008. But now look where we are. What these guys are doing, what we're doing, the hardest thing is starting. We've got a little bit of a jump on these guys because we started earlier. And this one's the third one. It's a little bit easier than the last time, but it's not easy because it's expensive. But in the long run, every year that everything else in the world goes up in value, our costs will stay the same because we're buying them today. And we're doing the very best we can with the county's money, with our money. We're stewarding every dollar like it was our very own, and anybody who knows me personally knows I will take a penny and squeeze it until it squeals. Yeah, and the APRs are great. I mean, the bank's being very generous here. Yeah, the bank's being very generous. I cannot say that enough. Town Bank has been great to this community for decades, and this is no exception. They really want to be our partner, and they really want us to succeed.

And the 2.5 and the 2.9 that we're talking about as far as interest rates, that's as close to when we built these initial buildings and the credit union gave us the 0%. In order to get that done, obviously we went back to them initially, but this is such a phenomenal project that they're now doing this all over the state. Everybody's replicating what we did, and the credit union wants to spread that around and that's the fact that they could go get the 2.5 and the 2.9 is as close to the zero as we could go.

Yeah, no, that's a great rate. The credit union doesn't do the 0% anymore. Right. They spun off of foundation as well, so they have chunks of money that they give out, and we were looking at applying for those grant monies, but basically they said we want to share the wealth around the state. So they do talk about us all the time. I don't know if you've heard that, but The credit union, every PowerPoint they give, every meeting they go to that's talking about this sort of thing, they talk about the success of Derrick County in 2008 and what a landmark move it was. We are a leader in the nation. There are still only five or six counties that have teacher housing, and we were the second or third? Second. Second, yeah. So I'm very proud to carry on this tradition and see where we can take it in the next step. I believe Commissioner Burris had a question.

Yeah, because I do work in the construction industry, and when you get cost-plus models, you're always talking 15% to 20%. You're rarely ever getting less than that. So 12%, every dollar counts. That's a huge 2.9% as opposed to 5% to 6% on your huge savings. And then when you do that model... One thing I want to point out, like he said, you've got economies of scale, too. You're building 12 units at one time, not one unit at one time. So ultimately, everything's going to come in cheaper. You're going to get more purchasing power. Any of us in here know you go to Lowe's tomorrow, and I'm just using this as an example, not that we're going to go to Lowe's. And it says right there, if you'll buy in bulk, if you'll buy 35 two-by-fours instead of one. we'll give you this much of a rate drop. So imagine what you're doing when you're building 12 units at once instead of one on a rate drop with a lumber supplier, which I'm sure there's going to be plenty of people that will be willing to partner with us on that and give us great rates. So when you have a unit cost like that thrown out there, that's to cover your backside. You're going to come in. I believe you'll be able to come in well under that, and then every bit of that is going to be more savings because it's less you're financing at a lower rate, and your cost plus model is going to be at a lower rate because the cost is down. So it's going to eventually, and then that's more savings that you can put into the long-term engineering part of it, like you were saying, like going with PVC fascia instead of aluminum.

So you don't have to paint it ever again. Exactly. One time, you're done.

And so there's things like that that will factor into the project that will I think you're going to get more bang for your buck as far as what you guys have on the paper. But it's also good to cover your... And every unit you do, and this is going to be the same with Donna and Malcolm over there. Every unit they do, and this is something I can't point out enough to people, creates other private rental opportunities in the community because now there's people in those homes... that have less of a need. We're satisfying part of the need, and yeah, it's 12, it's not 1,200, but it's 12, it's a start, it's a small start, and that'll create 12 more private openings in the community, hopefully, that we can, you know, the more you have on the market available, the lower the rate goes, so.

These are units that will be permanently, permanently, forever. lower than market, and always local only. You have to live here to be in these units. So it's a little easier for us. They have a harder enough to crack. I applaud all your efforts. I'm here to help anything we can do to help. We're all on the same team going forward. I've been advocating for a land trust idea for 20 years. I'm so excited that we're going in that direction.

Thank you. Anyone else? Okay, then we have a decision to make.

I kind of set it as an option 8 or 12, but I think Y'all have encouraged us to go towards 12, and as we went through the process of exploring it, we're very excited about that as the best option.

Board ready to take action? Anyone willing to make a motion?

Motion to approve the amount requested of $1,150,000 to support a 12-unit expansion of the Runyell Apartments for townhomes.

Motion on the floor then by Commissioner Ross. It's also seconded by the Vice Chair and Commissioner Balance. Floor is open for additional comments, questions. Hearing none, those in favor of this motion, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Motion carries unanimously.

Fantastic, guys. Thank you so much.

This is a great deal.

This is a great deal. Thank you so much for your support all these years, and thanks for making this big move right now. We are very excited to get this done and look forward to giving you updates. All right.

I think they got the right person. Thank you. Nice job, Ben. Ben, thank you.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Before we leave this, Matt, do we need anything else for us to move the money around?

I think maybe just authorize you to sign any related budget amendments.

So I need a motion to authorize me to sign any related budget amendments.

I make a motion to authorize the county manager to sign any papers we need to authorize the money.

Second. All right. There's a motion on the floor to authorize the county manager to sign. Second. By the vice chair, it's been seconded by Commissioner Balance and Commissioner Bateman. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like, sign. Motion carries unanimous. Thank you. Good work, guys. Good work.

There's excessive celebration going on in the front row here.

That brings us to item 17 on our agenda. This is our consent agenda.

On the consent agenda, we have approval of the minutes from June 9th. June 9th and June 15th. We have the tax collector's report. We have the budget amendment from the Baum Center. We have the health and human services public health WIC special funding. We have the fiscal year 27 dredging administrative support services contract. We have the capital project ordinance amendment and budget amendment. And we have the fiscal year 2026-27 installment financing reimbursement resolutions.

Motion to approve the consent agenda as presented.

Okay, there's a motion on the floor by the Vice Chair to approve the consent agenda as presented. It's been seconded by Commissioner Burris. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like so. Motion carries unanimous. That brings you to item 18, which is board appointments.

You have the College of the Albemarle Board of Trustees Board. Dr. Reed Corbett's term expires this month. He's not seeking reappointment. So the board will need to report, appoint an individual to fill that vacancy.

Make a motion to appoint Wiley Overman to fill that seat. Second. Seconded by Commissioner, Vice Chair House. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like sign. Motion carries unanimous.

Next is the Pheasant Center Advisory Council. The Pheasant Center Advisory Board recommends the appointment of Deborah Hoyt to fill the vacancy formerly held by Forrest Paddock.

Motion to approve.

Motion on the floor to approve by Commissioner of Balance. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Vice Chair Howells. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Opposed, like sign. Motion carries unanimously.

Next is the Game and Wildlife Commission. The terms of George Henderson, Missy McPherson, Anthony Lloyd, and Robert Owens expire this month. Robert Owens wishes to be reappointed. George Henderson, he's an at-large seat, does not wish to be reappointed. Applicants for the at-large seat are Greg Creep, Crew Hayes, Christian Heyman, Jeremy Hicks, Mack Boobin, Jamie Parker Jr., Jeff Pruitt, Raymond Pugh, Willie McAdoo-Rawls, Victor Rawlinson, Joseph Spade, and Stephen Benort. Chairman, would you like to do these one at a time?

Yeah, let's do this one at a time.

So let's go back up to Robert Owens.

Motion to reappoint.

There's a motion on the floor by Commissioner Kreef to reappoint, seconded by Commissioner Bateman. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like sign.

Motion carries unanimously. And then move to number two, which is George Henderson, and you saw the list of applicants I read out.

Motion to appoint Vic Rollinson to the at-large seat.

Okay, there's a motion on the floor by Commissioner Kreef, seconded by... Second. Commissioner Burris, any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor, signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Opposed, like so. Motion carries unanimously.

Next is Missy McPherson in District 1 does not wish to be reappointed. The following applicants are eligible. Greg Kreef, McAdoo Rawls, and Victor Rawlinson.

Motion to appoint McAdoo Rawls. Motion on the floor by Commissioner Kreef, seconded by... Second. Commissioner ballots and births. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like signed. Motion carries unanimously.

Next is Anthony Lloyd in District 4, who does not wish to be reappointed. The following applicants are eligible. Crew Hayes and Jeremy Hicks.

Mary Ellen, you want to do it? Nope. Go ahead.

Motion to appoint Jeremy Hicks. Okay. Is the motion over the floor by Commissioner Kreef? Second. Seconded by Commissioner Bateman. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, likes, aye. Motion carries unanimously. All right.

That brings us to the Virginia Tillett Community Center. Commissioner Rob Ross, Teresa Griffin, Mitchell Bateman, Jennifer Phillips, and Marie Paul all have terms expiring, and they all wish to be reappointed.

Motion to approve. Is there a second?

Second.

Second by Commissioner Balance. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like signed. Motion carries unanimously.

Next is the Wanchese Community Center Advisory Board. Justin Bateman and Robert Walton both have terms expiring this month. Robert Walton wishes to be reappointed. Justin Bateman does not. The Wanchese Community Center Advisory Board recommends Heather Sulkowski to be appointed to fill the Bateman seat.

Motion to have Heather Sikowsky replace Justin Beaman.

There's a motion on the floor. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by the Vice Chair. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like signed. Motion carries unanimously. What about the Robert Waltz?

Yeah, we got a motion to reappoint.

Reappoint. Yeah, we need to separate those motions, right? We didn't. Oh, okay. No, we don't need to. Sorry about that. Motion to reappoint Robert Waltz.

Okay, there's a motion on the floor by Commissioner... Burris. Burris. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Seconded by? Second. Commissioner Kreef. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like signed. Motion carries unanimously.

And that's all for this month. Upcoming board and committee appointments in August, you have the ABC board with two terms expiring, Virginia Tillett Community Center with four terms expiring. In September, you have the Health and Human Services Advisory Board with four terms expiring, the Transportation Advisory Board with one term expiring. In October, you have the Library Board with one term expiring, and you have the Thomas A. Baum Senior Center Advisory Board with three terms expiring. And that would be your agenda, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, County Manager. One, just a clarification. The five terms we just approved, including my own on the Tillett Center, all expire in August, and we have five more next month that expire in August as well?

Different boards.

No, no, this is the Tillett Center. Okay, sorry.

You have four in August.

Says five. Says five in August.

Upcoming.

We went ahead and did it.

It's the same five.

That's okay. That's okay. He just verified. Good point. Thank you.

Good point. Okay. Very good. Thanks for catching that. We can reappoint the five next month too. Yeah.

In fact, I would like to resound the grassroots movement to put me back on that board. All right.

That brings us to item 19, commissioner's business, county manager's business, county manager.

Yeah, I have a number of things here. First, a shout out to, uh, Carolyn Norman Holodea, I don't know if you all saw it, but she was named the Mania Person of the Year for all the work and effort she's done at our Roanoke Island Youth Center, and she's done good work over the year, and I just wanted to... publicly thank her for her service and congratulate her on that award. Second, a shout out to Sheila and her team. Our WIC team in Dare County was recognized at the North Carolina WIC conference in Raleigh as one of the outstanding ones in North Carolina. They had 99% of the mothers and infants in WIC program start out breastfeeding and kept that at like 58%, which led the state. Shout out to them for their good work as well. Some good news on the FAA front. We got concurrence, they call it.

Wait a minute. Let me. Oh, I am sitting down.

Go ahead. We got concurrence from the FAA that all the requirements and everything had been met at the staff level. It has to go by statute to the Federal Register for Public Comment for 30 days. That 30 days will expire on August 10th. At the end of August 10th, there'll be a document that is the release document that gets signed and recorded, and that's the document that we need for the LGC and the document that we need to finally complete all this for public works. They're working on the release document now. We've asked them to draft it so we don't start the process in August. There are some conditions on it that you'll need to act on. Maybe we can act on today. One is We have an overreaching lease where we lease all the airport property to the airport authority, and we would need to do an amendment to that lease that would then take this property out of that description and take it out of the lease. And so if I could get a motion to authorize the chairman to sign a lease amendment to that effect, we could accomplish that now. We don't have to come back for it.