Park Commission - Regular Meeting

The hour of 05:30 having arrived, I'd like to call the park commission to order. The very first thing I wanted to do, before Jolene calls the role is I wanted to have a remembrance for Bill Lunny. William Lunny made such a difference. And and I wanted these to be official part of the minutes that we would capture that we were giving this

Can I interrupt? Sure. And, Tom, your mic must not be on, or we can't hear you.

Yeah.

Okay. Thank you. Is that best?

Yes. Perfect. Thank you.

So, anyways, to go back, I I thought it really important to recognize Bill and to start this meeting having him having fifty some years of public service, thirty two on the park commission, thirty as chair, and he really helped make such a huge difference. When he started as chair of the park commission, we had 3,500 acres of public lands. And when he retired this, well, he didn't really retire, but when he stepped off of the commission, in 2019, we were at 15,000 acres of land, such almost a fourfold increase. And of course, now we're at 19,000 acres and we're the largest and I might add best park system in Wisconsin. And a lot of it has has to do with Bill's dedicated dedicated service.

Service. I wrote a couple of things I have on my phone. I want to make sure I didn't forget. But I I think, you know, from the standpoint of, Bill was an ultimate visionary, for our park system, and that was through planning partnerships and and promotional. You know, I think we've seen it in in the paper and it was true because I can remember Bill, he was such a big cheerleader and he would say, you know, a park isn't just a piece of land.

It's a vibrant part of the community. And he and he really helped citizens in Dane County and and across the state know about, boy, we need these parks and open spaces for our physical and mental health and, of course, to protect the environment for future generations. Bill will be appropriately inducted into the Wisconsin Conservation Hall of Fame on April 21. Wanted people to know about that. And, later this summer, Judy and the foundation are gonna have memorial event that they feel is appropriate, so to be aware of that.

So, you know, I talked to Judy on the phone several times and, you know, our our heartfelt condolences go out. You and Bill made such a huge difference, you know, with the you know, helping form the foundation, helping with, you know, friends at Cap Springs, we can go with the list is so long. But I wanted to, make sure that we acknowledged, in a very good way, the tremendous work that Bill did. So I don't know if anybody else has something they'd like to pass or say. Oh, okay. Stephanie?

Judy, I just wanted to say the last time I saw Bill was here, right here in this room, back in October at the event. And he was so much his old self. That enthusiasm, the contagious enthusiasm, the energy, the humor, that twinkle in his eye. And that's the last time I saw him. When I got out of the car and I started walking toward the door, I felt his presence here. It just brought the tears to my eyes. He's here with us Yep. All around. Always Thank you, Stephanie. Yep.

Yeah. And I I just wanted to say that when I joined the commission, Bill was just really sincere about teaching me what this was about and the history, and it he was just so welcoming, and that that was a wonderful introduction to this.

Great. Thank you, Nana.

Annalise? I'll just add, I did not put this oh, hold on. Not close enough. Is it on? Is it even on?

I'm holding the bunny. But when I got appointed to Parks Commission, I was really excited. I and when Bill retired from parks commission, I think he had actually been on park commission and or chairing park commission longer than I had been alive. And it was just so it was I mean, I've said a number of things about him, oh, you know, but for that to be, like, that amount of experience to have that as I, you know, came in to Parks Commission was just really cool. Know, someone who'd literally been doing this longer than I'd been on the earth. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. One of the things before Jolene calls the role is I think let's have a minute of silence or so for Bill and then I'll have Jolene call the role. So many wonderful things Bill did. Would you how many times did he start the meeting and call the roll, please?

Banks.

Present.

Bogue.

Present.

Brower. Here.

Supervisor Eicher.

Here.

Go forth is excused. Supervisor Posler.

Posler here.

Chair Thorson.

I hear I'm here.

Within governance program member, Song Kwan.

She'll be here at six. Okay. We'll take the consideration of the minutes and then I'm going to ask to move the presentation up just for our guests. Is there a motion on the minutes?

I'll move.

Second. I'll second.

Okay. Any changes, corrections? If not, all those in favor of approval signify by saying aye. Aye. Then, asking that we move the, item I gotta get the right number. The presentation at, d on ice age, realignment on the Indian Lake County Park for the trail presented by Chad Deschato. Yes. Thank you. Of the Ice Age Trail Alliance. He's the project manager. So go ahead, Tim. We maybe we should introduce ourselves first so that you know everyone. Start with you, Annalise. Sure.

Hi. I'm Annalise Eicher. I'm the, district three supervisor on the Eastern Part of Sun Prairie.

I'm Tom Thorson, chair, citizen member from Fitchburg.

Hi. I'm Stephanie Brower. I'm vice chair, and I'm a citizen member from town of Barrie.

Don, Jasmine, Mann?

Yeah. I'm, Don Posler. I'm accounting board supervisor for District 29, which spans from De Forest down to, Verona. That's the townships of Vienna, Dane, Springfield, Middleton, Village Of Dane, and just the Northwest corner of the town of Verona.

And I'm Jasben Banks. I'm a citizen member from Madison.

JASON BUGG: I'm Nan Bogue, and I'm also a citizen member from Madison.

JASON And you know all the parts people? You know the Jazz. JASON Okay, great. Okay, we're anxious to hear.

Okay. We've virtually, right? Virtually, can see that too, correct?

Great. Thanks so much. I'm Chad Duchateau, project field project manager for the Ice Age Trail Alliance. And just wanna say this is it's a honor to follow the words that you just mentioned about Bill. I wonder what kind of legacy I'm gonna leave.

So I'll do my best tonight. So, yes, I'm part of the Ice Age Trail Alliance, and I've been involved with this project at Indian Lake since I started with the Ice Age Trail Alliance about four years ago. So I've been involved with some of the public meetings and spent some time at the park trying to figure out how best to bring the trail through the Great County Park. Go ahead. So I just thought we kind of start with a bit of context.

This is from our Atlas, which sort of shows parks, properties that have trail, which, Springfield Hill, Halfway Prairie, Indian Lake, Libetral Prairie, so all Dane County properties. And then in between is circles that identify connecting routes. So part of my job and the Alliance's job is how do we connect these dots? So in this case, we're focusing on Indian Lake and the how how to change or readjust the alignment there to sort of focus the route heading more Southwest toward Libetral Prairie. And I should add too, want to thank the park, Dane County Parks and I guess the county itself are just being a great partner.

I mean, this is a piece of property that has trail for a long time and we're working to realign it, but there's the Brooks property and Cross Plains and others that you've acquired for the trail that we really appreciate the partnership not only for building trail, but also the restoration that comes with the landscape. Without these partnerships, we wouldn't get this trail done. So ideally, the idea would be to better connect glacial features, significant natural resources, restored landscapes. And then the other thing we look to try to do is to bring sustainable trail layout and construction techniques as well as the big one as ongoing maintenance, which is always a good thing for our partners when we can bring volunteers to sort of maintain the trail. Okay, next one.

The next cell size maybe one you're familiar with sort of just shows the existing Ice Age Trail route and the other amenities assets at the park. I just wanted to kind of highlight what it's doing now. And what this sort of shows is that we have currently a connecting route, which is what a through hiker walk or a day hiker walk connecting route on Highway 19 to the west there by the dog park. Various user conflicts with shared use trails, dog park and also maybe that the trail sort of goes through a parking lot right now and maybe it's a bit confusing as which way do I go, what can I do? And also just it's on some of the steeper train and it's not really a trail, it's more like a road or an access road.

How can we make this better? Here is your master plan, Matt, with a proposed route through it and also sort of a conceptual route that we had sort of discussed prior to actually getting out in the field. And mind you, this about four years worth of work of wandering around on that property, trying to figure things out and better connect some of the assets there. As you can see, it would be new trail. And I think some of the points that I want to put sort of state here are the sort of avoids more of the busier areas of the park to the East there with the sledding hill and some of the restoration work and other potential plans in place to bring other amenities to the park.

And one thing I thought was really key was just sort of it pulls in or takes in sort of grand views of the lake itself on this side of the park. And it better aligns with other lands that were acquired for the trail in the area. This is just an example of the layout process. So this is a map that we create we create after exploring an area. So the purple is Wanderings by myself or other people where you try to find answers.

And then there's also some Sharpie in there where you say, hey, this might be better, right, after consulting maps or looking at photos and whatnot. So you can see we sort of explored a bit to the east there. But really, what was attractive to us from a layout standpoint was sort of that higher elevation kind of that mainline, which you see a little more bold there moving forward. So the process itself is takes years. Some say about one hundred hours worth of field work to sort of come up with a well thought out trail.

And a lot of times, you sort of you think you have a good route and then you clear away some of the vegetation and you get ready to build and like, oh, it should have been over here. So anyways, try to do the best you can as planning it all out and taking in other points of view as far as the route goes. Thanks. That's I think the next slide will be good. Okay.

So this is sort of the idea of this consulting with the parks and other people sort of goes to a project phase, which is what you're seeing in the left. This is a map that we create across the trail throughout the state when we have a proposed project. That's the first step in the steps in making it actually become something that we can put into the field. So this would be part of the compliance process where we pull in partners and the local chapters, the volunteer chapters of which we have 19 across the state. And then we put together the proposal, which then gets packaged and sent to our partners at the National Park Service for endangered and cultural resource review.

And that goes into the churning cycle of opinions and different organizations. And then we figure out if there are restrictions or if we need to realign the trail due to some factors out of our control. And when it gets to that phase, we sort of have a plan moving forward, whether it's 2026, 2028 or beyond. And then we look at what would our budget be, what are our funding sources. And when we sort of check all those boxes, you can sort of look at the right side of the slide, which is our twenty twenty six trail crew events, and then we determine if all things are a go, then we can put it on our schedule and sort of dedicate resources to our statewide trail building efforts.

So this is sort of showing where we're going to be working with our large scale projects this year. And you can see on there in September, which is one of my favorite months, we have a plan to work at Indian Lake. And we're in the sort of the planning stages there. Go ahead, next slide. So what does that mean by an ice age trail crew event?

Again, I'm not certain how familiar you are with our efforts, but we last year in 2025, we constructed 15 miles of new ice age trail and that translated into 25,000 service hours by volunteers. So it's incredible effort and these people who maybe some of you know through other Dane County volunteer efforts are incredible people who it's sometimes a new life for them, right, in retirement or after hours, and they really are quite a unique group of people. And so it's a trail building event. In this case, it'll be a five day event that we're planning on having a base camp at Camp Brandenburg down the street. We're anticipating due to the fact of it being in Dane County, but also this is a popular place and we're anticipating numbers similar to a couple of years ago when we worked at what's called the Glacial Passage area across Plains State Park, where we had another large project ended up being three miles worth of new trail.

And I think we had two sixty volunteers show up and donate four thousand eight hundred hours over the course of five days. So I think we can anticipate something similar to that. And you can see, it's tread building like we have in the middle there, but it's also structure construction steps. We actually encourage young people to come out there because who better to clear the quarter than a bunch of teenagers with loppers. You can't go wrong, right?

And then there's also some of the off season habitat improvement we do too with burn piles and whatnot. So just sort of what we can bring to our efforts, whether it's if it's a project, but then ongoing maintenance. And sort of how it works is right now out in the field at Indian Lake, we have yellow ribbons sort of identifying the routes. And once we sort of make a walk with County staff next week, we'll add some pin flags, which you're seeing there that Gilliany is so that sort of represents the trail center line. So we sort of build off of that and clear a corridor and then sort of work from there.

We'll section out the trail. In this case, it's somewhere around 7,000 feet. So every couple of 100 feet, we'll have sections and then we'll accompany those with handwritten construction notes that sort of detail what needs to be done within that corridor. And so we anticipate this happening in September, but prior to that, sort of our local volunteers will kind of organize workdays to sort of set the stage for a successful trail building after it comes September. So you can kind of show the next slide there that that's what we're looking for as far as a construction technique.

You've got a natural surface trail. In this case, it would be native soil, a tread width of about 30 inches with good flow across the trail and off the trail and back slope. So the idea is it's a well built, trail that will hopefully be there for a long time, but no trail is maintenance free. So the idea would be, you do what you can to construct it properly and then monitor it as years go on with impacts from foot traffic or major weather events or whatnot. But the folks we have are quite versed in those techniques.

And then lo and behold, you end up with a great view of the Western Terminus here. But in this case, there's some great points up there that once we bring the trail in, I think we can also enhance the views with habitat management and invasive control that will give you some pretty incredible views over Indian Lake and sort of East through that valley.

That's Wisconsin's first state park, right?

Yes. That's why I have to think. So thanks for the time and I appreciate what you all do for the county.

Thank you. Questions? Stephanie?

Yeah. I was just wondering about the access. I know Indian Trail Road pretty well, and it's pretty bad in terms of surfacing. But where you've got the start is right at that sharp bend. Curve. The curve. And yet when I hike that and we walk that area, it looks like the parking that the county would be putting in would be closer to where the old greenhouses used to be. So I'm just wondering wondering about access to the trail from that from where you're showing it right now.

Correct. Yes, we're not anticipating parking right now, right, which is always an issue when we're building trail, right, whether it's here in Dane County or somewhere in remote Chippewa County is like you're coming out to a role, what are we going to do with that? So I feel like where it comes out on Indian Trail has good sight lines right now and you know, it's between two egg fields. So a lot of you know, some of the questions I have is, you know, what what happens with those egg fields there? Or I was just out there on Monday too, like, to the west of that point is also Prairie, but we're sort of anticipating some other acquisitions.

So maybe that point shifts, which really should and stay more west and come out near Highway K there. So there's some long term vision that is there too. Other questions? Not,

I'm sorry, go ahead.

Hi. I was going to ask about the construction techniques that you mentioned early on, but then I saw you talked about them later. And I'm sorry if I missed this, but are you going to maintain the trails or does parks?

Great question. It's a great selling point across the trail is the alliance volunteers, in this case, Dane County Chapter would have someone dedicated to maintaining sort of stewarding that segment of trails. So they'd be out there to let us know if a tree is down, a blaze is missing. So we our volunteer efforts would handle the maintenance of the trail and the trail corridor there.

Thank you.

Go ahead, Stephanie. Yes, have another question. This is a little bit off track, but right now I know with Halfway Prairie, you have to get on to Mats Road. And where does that take you when you get to the end of Mats Road?

That's a horrible entrance to Mats Road, by the way. It's a horrible entrance to Mats Road. It's very steep. And I've been working with the town of Barrie the last few years to try to see about a way to remedy that. And frankly, with the new road surface and their shoulder, it's not great.

So I'm actually think we should exit further south of there where there's a better grade and actually Jim Perry's house is right across the street. But yes, so as you leave Halfway Prairie, you're just on the road. Right? So you walk on Matt's Road, I guess, to whatever the is it bogus? Or what's the road that leads to Springfield Hill?

So you're essentially you're directed to walk on the road until you come to Springfield Hill Parking Lot and then back in. So that's the trick with the trail is unless someone has a map or is familiar with it, they kind of get up on a road like, which way do I go? And so trying to add signage that says follow Mats Road and then head west on the next road, right? But unless you have the map or are holding the map, you it can be confusing as a linear trail.

And Then you've got to run across the highway to get to Springfield Hill, which is quite a sprint.

Eventually, we'd maybe use the bridge that's across 12, right, the bridge to nowhere.

Not quite there.

Not quite there. Not in the right spot.

Exactly. How do you assess where you're going to need to do steep grades and prevent erosion control because I would see that as a major issue with some of the new trail.

Correct. Yes. So essentially, we looked at this many times and the original layout had a couple of switchbacks in it, right? Those are switchbacks or grade reversals that usually inquire quite a bit of engineering with stone and moving earth. And in this case, it seemed like those soils were pretty loose there too.

So we explored other options where you wouldn't have to have such a dramatic change in direction, which would need a structure or a retaining wall. And so those are that's part of the process. Like, would I need to add steps or will I? So during this process, I wish I could show you all the different flags that we have in the tree. There's a couple of spots where it was like, every time we walked it, it was another 50 feet up and down.

You're like, how do you make things connect? So we look at that by contour mass, but also when we're in the field, we carry a kilometer. And so we're always trying to keep grades at about 10% or less. But sometimes the landscape, you have to push it a little bit. And I guess in this case, you look at what else is out there in Dane County from a true hiking experience.

And I think, sometimes it's okay to push people a little bit, right? If you have a reward in this case, views to the top and things like that. So I think in some cases, maybe you would want a wider trail that's packed limestone or paved. But in this case, you're like, okay, well, this is a sort of a wilderness park, right? Let's sort of keep that feel.

So let's keep it natural service, but also realize that we're going to push slopes a little bit. But hopefully, in the construction phase, you have good water shedding and whatnot from the trail service, and it's not funneling water down like some of those steep trails are doing now.

How often do you have to bring some aggregate or things to keep it in place?

It depends really on how things where the soil type, sometimes we'll utilize native stone in the area. Like if we I know there's a couple of drainage crossings there on that sell side where maybe stone armoring the tread where you might have a seasonal or every ten year washing. A lot of times that we try to use what's there. Sometimes we have to bring in material, stone for stone stairs or retaining walls. In this case, we're hoping that the soils and the compaction will be okay for what we're trying to do.

Stephanie?

So you mentioned the five day event that How you've far how how much progress do you anticipate that you're going to make in the five days? And so what's your timeline to complete this entire relocation?

Sure. We hope to have it all done by then, right? Or 90% done and then sometimes in this case, the nice thing is, is we have existing trail. Sometimes it's a singular property where we wanna get it open and and get people using it. Right?

In this case, some say something happens like, I don't know, there's a rare plant found or something like that where we have to, you know it it could be rescheduled. But the idea is we try to get as much done prior to the events. And then at the event that, you know, come Sunday, we're just cleaning up a little bit. Maybe somebody has to come back and paint blazes and things like that. Right?

So but it's I've been surprised, you know, because we've had this is about seven you know, seven 7,600 feet. Some of it is overlaying existing trails, but I've been amazed at how much trail can be built over the course of four days with people.

Do you have to do any board walks at all?

Yep. Oh, here, no, no. So this is a there's no structures. So a lot of times it's a couple of 100 feet of wood, wooden structures, bridges. I think I said, there might be some armoring of crossings, but we're not anticipating any built structures, which is nice because you can facilitate snowshoeing or in some cases skiing too. Right? Like I think sometimes people want maybe a little more backcountry experience, they ski. So you could actually ski on it too. So so yes, it would be just tread trail construction.

Any

other questions? If not, thank you so very much. We'll plan on being out there. I mean, personally. Yeah. Come

and see the show or Tom, just call

us here afterwards or

I'm lucky enough that I have a number of people that work with Ed Spoon and Oh, and Carl Messman. Yeah. Oh, you know Carl? Yeah. I was his supervisor.

Up there in Moshera County.

Yeah. Yeah. He's a good one.

Awesome stories then.

Yep. Thanks again. Yeah. We'll look forward to I'm sure Alec Alex will be keeping and Jolene will be keeping us plugged in.

We'll be out there with some of

the staff next week from yeah. Great. Thanks for coming. Yep. Thank you. Thanks, Ken. Thank you

for coming in ahead of time. Appreciate I that. Yeah.

Okay. We're on to item c, referrals and resolutions. The first one is resolution three nine one, authorization 2026 purchase of services agreement for amend them for operation fresh start for completing conservation work on County Parkland. Is there a motion?

I'll move.

Second. Okay. Discussion?

Alright. This is an incredible partnership that Dane County Parks has had with operation fresh start for quite a few years now. So starting in 2014, we had our first legacy crew working on Dane County Park land. Since then, the number of crews that we've had has grown significantly. So we now have two legacy crews that work on Dane County Park property all year and then we have about twenty weeks of the Conservation Academy crew which is the higher skilled level crew.

They have different certifications, they do a lot more work, for us that also work on Dane County Parkland. Those get scheduled at a variety of times throughout the year based on when our needs really are. Sorry about the room echo. We haven't had that for weeks and now it's back. Issues tonight.

We can try it. Then also, we received USDA Forest Service inflation reduction act, back in 2024. And as part of that grant, we wanted to add an additional forestry related work to our operation fresh start crews. So we have a part time legacy crew that last year worked about two days a week at the end of the year. And then we're hoping to get another 16 or so of conservation academy crew to do forestry related work.

So this try a different microphone. Alright. I'm gonna try this one. Okay. So, this resolution both creates a new contract with operation fresh this year that has combined those two original legacy crews and our conservation academy accrue.

So that's, funded from our regular Dane County operating budget. Authorizes that contract. And in addition to that, it does an addendum, is which just extending another year for that IRA grant funded contract. I'm gonna stop talking so I don't echo us all out.

I had a question.

Are there any questions, comments, Stephanie?

Yeah, I had a question because at one point you say you talk about the total amount of 198,800. And then a couple paragraphs later down there you say a total budget of 150,000.

It's because they're two different contracts. So the two legacy crews and twenty weeks of the Conservation Academy crew is that first dollar amount 198,008 and then the IRA is a $150,000.

So basically you got closer to like 300,000. That's great.

Other questions? What is a legacy crew?

Legacy crew is the high school diploma program. Jasmine, you can jump in at any time too.

Yeah. Okay. Yep. So that's what it is. We talked about it a little bit earlier, Nan, before the meeting. Yep. So it's the young people 16 to 24 who've come to Fresh Start to obtain their high school diploma and then get skills in the conservation industry.

Yeah. That's terrific. Yeah.

K. Any other questions? If not, are there any declarations or things before we take a vote? Jasmine?

I'm going to abstain from voting just because I work at FreshStart.

Yep. Thank you.

You're welcome.

Okay. All those in favor of the resolution signify by saying aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Okay. The motion carries. Thank you. The next item is, make sure I didn't jump too far ahead. Resolution three ninety two, authorizing acceptance of funds from the foundation for Dane County Parks to support the Dane County Parks volunteer program. Is there a motion?

I'll move.

I'll second. Jolene.

We're really excited that the foundation for Dane County Parks has successfully received a grant from a fund for women which is a component of the Madison Community Foundation for us to continue, chainsaw trainings and volunteer workdays. And, the grant then passes through to Dane County Parks to support our volunteer program. So this resolution will accept the funding from the foundation and then put it both towards our LTE assistant volunteer coordinator, funds twelve hundred hours for that that employee, which is the maximum of hours that they can work in a calendar year in addition to funding some volunteer related expenses for these days such as buying equipment, personal protective equipment, SWAG for our volunteers trainings and then, helps to recognize them.

Any questions?

I had a question about the volunteer coordinator position.

So the full the full time equivalent volunteer coordinator position was unfunded in the 2026 budget. So there is no funding at this point to bring that individual back. This is for the LTE assistant volunteer coordinator which is at this point helping to manage the day to day questions that come in like kind of basic volunteer questions to support that program. Some of the responsibilities of the physician. So Leil, I, others have picked up other pieces as well.

Okay, thanks.

Other questions? If not, all those in favor of approval of resolution three ninety two signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Anyone opposed? Okay. Next item is resolution three ninety three authorizing donation of funds, land restoration at Morton Forest. Is there a motion? Second.

Alright. This has become, a really generous acceptance of annual endowment distribution. So when Steve Morton donated Morton Forest to Dink County Parks, he also established this endowment to support its ongoing maintenance which has been fabulous. So every year, I get a letter saying how much money from the endowment is able to be distributed in that calendar year. And, last year a good year for the stock market.

So it's up slightly than from the previous year. So there's $19,466 that's available for me to pull from this endowment. Then we turn around and spend it directly on this property. So we contract out a controlled burn and a private contractor to do invasive weed control, in areas throughout the park which then helps our team focus on other areas, increasing the amount of work that we can get done in the entire park system while making sure that this property really gets extra or exceptional care and maintenance thanks to this endowment. So we're grateful for Steve Martin for setting this up for us and, hope you all accept the funds.

Thank you. Hi, Elena. Welcome. We're on resolutions right now. We're talking about the Morton Forest endowment accepting the money, which we want to do at least that is the way in.

Actually it's a great example. This was set up when we get properties, if we can get an endowment from whoever is donating a portion because it really makes a big difference in, the county being able to not keep further falling behind with more and more properties that we have to take care of and not having the funds. So this was really a good thing that, Steve and his family did. And I think truly be appreciated. He still comes to things, so it's nice to see him. So if we get a chance, we should thank him. Any other comments or questions, Steph?

I just have a quick question. How many years have we been able to get the money from the endowment?

Since before I started, for sure. So since before I started. It was already happening, and I've been here five

years. So

he must have, donated quite a good sum because you have to have a certain amount before you can take anything out. I know that.

Yeah. I can't remember what the fund balance is but you know the distribution comes from 4% over x number of periods or whatever and interest that they've been earning, MCF is a smart investor and has a lot of different funds has been higher than the 4%.

Yeah. It looks like

Yeah.

Think it's yearly thing.

My memory isn't perfect by a long shot, but it I think it's like fifteen ten, fifteen years at least because I remember this early on. Same with Scheidegger. I think Scheidegger, get a check don't we anymore? No?

Not from Scheidegger.

Okay. I thought we one of the forest or the other forest, we did.

No. No. But we do have, a small endowment from a neighbor of Indian Lake. So Carla Wright created a small endowment. We get about $300 from that one annually. So it's the the balance is a lot smaller.

So anyways, it's good that we have these endowments that help. So the motion is to accept the funds. Those in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Thank you. Anderson has one too.

Maybe that's okay. Yeah. Okay. Let's see. That would be, the resolutions, I believe. Reports to committee. Okay. Yeah. So we're on, reports to committee.

Alright. So I wanted to bring this topic up for a number of different reasons. I'm gonna try holding this.

Let me turn mine off. You

you emailed him. Thank you. Let me know if it gets to be too much for those of you virtually. So I wanted to have a really open and collaborative discussion about the 2027 budget and how it relates to Dade County Parks fees. So, you may have seen the county executive's press release that went out last week or, are paying attention but '26 was a hard budget for us.

We lost a couple of positions in parks and parks and land and water, our larger department was not unique. Those were cuts made across all of the county departments, because of a structural budget deficit. All indications are that 2027 is going to be just as challenging if not more challenging for the county on a budget budgetary side. And although park commission doesn't have, budgetary authority, you do have, involvement in a really important piece and that is some of the revenue side in Dane County Parks and so Park Commission does have the authority to set all of the park use fees on an annual basis. So for those of you who have been commission members for you know many years or several years at least you know might remember public hearings where you've had some people come years and years where no

one comes

and we've taken a I think a balanced approach wanting to make sure that Dane County parks are accessible for everyone but wanting to generate some revenue for I know about the it's so bad, isn't it? Wanting to generate revenue for services that we provide that that really do require a lot of work for maintenance and for, like, daily services. So we charge fees for permits whether they be lake access, dog park, cross country skiing, mountain biking, etcetera. We charge fees for our campgrounds, and we, charge fees for our shelter reservations and our special event permits. So there whatever you did, Lyle, maybe that helped.

I don't know. Okay. Momentarily maybe. And so I wanted to, talk to you all today to just sort of set that stage. And then I have really a couple of different asks that I that I want to kind of get out there.

So first I would like to propose that we set fees earlier in this calendar year so that any revenue increases that we anticipate that could come from fee increases can be used to offset reductions that we'll have to make within our budget. But the timeline does not work. It's it's not gonna be the solution to our budget problem, believe me. But the time I know. But the timeline so far has not lined up that we can realize revenue revenue in the budget process.

So historically, we've set these fees in the fall for the following calendar year, but department budgets are due generally in the July. So fees would need to be set for '27 in June for us to be able to use you know what some solid revenue projection changes based on these fee and any fee increases that you all approve. So I want to, talk about the timeline. So we would move our public hearing up, we would move our fee setting up, which means we need to be talking about these fees right now. We need to start the conversation.

So not only do I want to propose the schedule change, but I wanna make sure I wanna hear from you all on what do you think feels appropriate to find that balance given the current budget year. So kind of help help tell me both what data you wanna know, know, is it how many nights of camping we have, what is, you know, all what what data can Leila and I put together to help us all make informed decisions? And and I know you're not gonna sit here today and say, like, well, I wanna know how many of whatever permits and these things and if they're residents or non residents or whatever, but I want you to start thinking about what that data can be to help us analyze. And then, gauge your interest in how like, what is that balance? How do we find that balance?

Because at the end of the day, you're the one that's gonna be voting on it. You're the one that's gonna be responding to the public questions and then have to defend those decisions because this is a part commission decision that you all will be making. So I'm hoping, that we can start this conversation today, that we can have this conversation together over the next couple of meetings, and that I can get a volunteer, from one of you to, you know, to work with staff to help us develop this proposal. And, I was actually hoping that that volunteer would be Don, because he has he has a good understanding of the county county budget process, you know, a better feeling on what that that is, and, see if see if he'd be willing to bring that piece to the conversation as well.

Be happy to.

Be Great. Thank you, Don. And then, you know, see if anyone else wanted to engage in in sort of those more detailed developing the proposal conversations that will bring back at other meetings for everyone to re you know, react to reflect reflect on. So this is just sort of setting setting the stage tonight for that work. Like I said, the the revenue piece is only gonna be a part of it.

You'll probably have conversations with us. I said we we can't set the expense side of the budget, but you can anticipate that we're going to be seeing significant expense cuts particularly as it relates to, you know, not filling more vacant positions and eliminating them. Because although our budget sometimes feels robust, it so much of our budget is in staff and related staff expenses that there's no way we're gonna get to that target number without losing more full time positions. Yeah. It's it's gonna have to be a part of the solution too.

And another thing that I think that, you know, when we come down to it, adjusting our level of services that stay core to our mission is probably gonna have to be part of that conversation as well. So just like one example to throw out there so you can kind of think about what I mean by that is our fish cleaning stations that are at a couple of our lake access sites. We're not required to have fish cleaning stations at lake access sites. We have a we have them at some. We don't have them at others.

It's a significant staff time sink to clean them, to fix them because those grinders break all the time. And so is that a service that that will certainly impact the public? People love them. But is that something that is so core to our mission that we'll have to talk about, you know, what this might look like? So those are some conversations, where your input might be valuable too as we get into some service level discussions.

I can open it up for comment and then particularly even as it relates to our next agenda item and we start looking at, schedule. I I I have a sort of a set schedule so that we could have these fees approved by the June that I wanna make sure we're all on board with

too. K. Questions, comments?

If not I've got one.

Go ahead, Nan.

Yeah. Well, first of all, what what a tough year. I didn't realize, you know, losing staff, that's really hard. Worked in business for a long time, and so I'm I'm sorry about that. What I can't what was that big controversy where the the, not the preschool, but that group of people came about the one of the permit changes?

Yeah. We set we started a recurring program permit. So those were permits that we didn't use to require, but then through this fee schedule created this permit that they needed for organizations or businesses to host classes that they were charging a fee for and not paying us to use the park.

Right. Have you had any feedback on that since that, those people came and everything?

Yeah. Go ahead. They get their permit.

Hey, Nan. Yeah. They get their permit every year, multiple times because it's a multiple, like, seasonal permit, and, we haven't had any issues. They, I think, actually find it to be, very helpful from what it seems because our staff are prepared for them to be in the park and are able to check-in with them and have better communication if there's going to be a park closure, things like that. So I think that it's actually been pretty successful. We have several others that have applied to those permits that maybe we didn't know were out and about in the parks in the past, and are starting to experience that same level of surface. I think it is paying off. Good.

Go ahead, Steph.

So I wanted to ask about, I know that disc golf tournament, is that a significant source of revenue for the county? When they have the tournaments or is that just a one time thing, the tournament?

So disc golf tournaments have to get a special use permit because we close the course to the public so that that tournament can run. I wouldn't say that it's a significant source of revenue, no. I mean a tournament is paying $500 ish. It kind of depends on how they have their tournament set up. So you know they have to pay the special event permit fee, they have to pay to close the course, there's like a course rental fee.

And then if anyone will be drinking, then they have to buy the alcohol permit. If they've got someone vending, so selling merchandise, tournament hats, food or beverage, they need a vending permit. So depending on the specifics of their tournament is going to change how much they have to pay to host it on Parkland. But it's not significant. The last person that I talked to about a disc golf tournament based on the number of participants that they had which seemed on the low end to me 90 or so I mean it was like $4 a person right. Dollars 4 of the tournament each tournament registration fee then came back to us.

I had a question. Go

ahead, Annalise.

Hold on. Did it turn on? Yes, it did. Okay. So just a timeline clarification question. So when you are talking about timeline getting these past, are you still anticipating that these would come into effect prior to 2027 or during like, in 2027 or prior to?

So the fees would be voted on in at the June, but they wouldn't go into effect until January 27. Okay. So we set the fees for a calendar year. I'm just talking about how quickly we vote on what next year's fees will be.

Okay. And then just thinking logistically because it would be park commission would need to vote on it, and then the board would also need to vote on it because it is a change.

So the board doesn't vote to set park fees. The

We just You would

It's included in part of budget. Yeah. So we would if if park commission raises the fees enough that it's gonna have a budgetary impact

Mhmm.

With extra revenue Mhmm.

Which is

what I'm hoping we'll do, what you'll do Mhmm. Then we put the extra revenue in the department budget that Laura submits to the county executive around July 1. Okay. And so we don't have our budget guidelines yet. But let's just say the budget guidelines say Land and Water has to cut a million dollars. Yep. Right? Like and we can raise them a little bit, then that's that much less we have to cut. Got it. Okay. Thank you. But it's gotta be because it's it's you have to I can't project an increase unless those fees are set. Correct.

Okay. You can't go anywhere.

And that will be the biggest help is having a little better handle on revenue. And one of the thoughts, because you're just getting some input, because I don't wanna get too far ahead. But I think it's going be important to think of new things that people might be willing to pay for because it is a service they're getting. And you've given some examples there that I'm thinking, that we want to create a transparency to whatever that is as well as maybe there's some bigger donations that people could make to offset Mhmm. You know, cuts in in what would normally be a cut in service that we don't have them because the revenue side has come up. So

Yeah. So just some questions that I want you to start to ponder is like, I mean, would you support nonresident fees and frankly everything. The only permit that we have for a nonresident fee right now is our lake access. Everything else we charge the same for resident or non resident and the residents right are the tax base that are supporting our department and so if we start adding all these non resident fees how much higher can they be? Or would you rather see a 5% or a 7% or a 10% increase across the board on everything? I mean, those are the types of things I'm hoping that you all consider. What do I feel comfortable with coming through as a proposal?

I think we have to again, I know the the I think people want to be this is where it's gonna be good to have information. What's inflation when what's been inflation over a long haul? Because sometimes it's just the yearly inflation rate didn't cover up where it's gone in x number of years. So I would want data to help drive what's happened with inflation and things as well as where are our peer county fees issue looking at? Because we may be I remember when we now this is eight, ten years ago.

We were, I think, undercharging for some of the shelter and beer permits or some of those type of things. And that may be a revenue issue. And then the other question that goes with it is what percent do we have data on what percent of the permits we're currently giving out are to nonresidents of the county? Because I think that would be important to know too because that would help figure out what that revenue might be assuming that sales stay the same. Then the other thing is what can be done to increase sales.

Annalise?

Yeah. So just to your point about peer counties, not just Wisconsin. Like, we think peer counties, a lot of times folks just think, oh, the peer counties in the state of Wisconsin. No, let's look at peer counties that are comparable outside of Wisconsin. Yeah.

Mean, Hennepin is a great it's different because population and any number of things. But there are a couple of other counties in the Midwest that I think are pretty good comparables to Dayton County. That would be a good and of course, also, like, thinking about, like, how their parks are comparable, right? Right. Know? That's Yeah. Well, I do And what resources they have. Like, we we are very unique here, and it's we're very lucky to have that. But, you know, not

everyone else biggest and the best in the state of Wisconsin, we'll compare. Hard to

be so much cooler than us.

So Waukesha County, like, charges a park entry fee like you would have a a state park entry fee, and, they enforce it with, like, a vehicle detect detector. I mean, like, there are some very advanced and I'm not I'm not saying we have to go there, but I just think that, like, there's interesting things happening around the state. And I'll I'll also just add because it hasn't come up yet. We have reduced or free application. I guess application is, not even it's not even that. Well, you just have to ask to say I need fee assistance two or three sentences. It comes in by email. I've approved every single one of those that I have ever gotten. So I do not want this to be a barrier for people not to be able to use parks.

Those are important principles to think about, you know, that it is accessible, that it is affordable, that we certainly is justifiable whatever we want to come up with. I thinking, you know, people love our parks, and I think we have to capitalize on that. And maybe in some ways that there's a system where either individuals or groups could donate, and then it's transparent as to what happened to help so we don't offset losing positions or that. So but again, that has to be where the county other people, the county board, the county exec are also on board with whatever system that is. But I I just think we gotta basically think outside the box sometimes.

And that's why it's also good to Annalise's point, you know, to make sure that we've looked at what what have other parks departments, you know, done. So

I had two ideas and then a question. I don't know if this is the time to give the ideas, but I don't know if we've done tiles. Like, I'm thinking, you know, what kind of building off what Tom said is definitely keep the parks accessible so the the idea of charging per vehicle doesn't naturally resonate with me. But for people with more money, something like, you know, buying a tile or the other idea. And I saw this in a park up north, and I told Chris about it.

There was they had some artwork in the park that was actually this beautiful huge deer made out of branches and maybe, you know, people sponsoring artwork in the parks. So those were kind and it was it was very well done, very fit into the park. So that that's kind of one idea. And then the question is, if we decided to just increase everything by 5%, is that a significant difference?

I I don't know. I haven't haven't done it yet. I don't think 5% is gonna make enough of a difference.

The the quest the question, and this is why I would wanna have some analysis, and this is take some work, where where are we, you know, where we should be, where are we way behind, so that the the public will say, yes, this makes sense. It's justified having this kind of increase because they were far behind. Because, again, it's their they have to realize we all have to realize that there's gonna be cuts if we don't have the revenue. So we have to figure out how that revenue comes in and the public supports it. So that's just my thoughts.

Any If I can just Go ahead Don. Don, I'd

like sorry for interrupting you real quick, but I wanna say I appreciate your, helping with this because I think it is important to have the county board know, you and Annalise are our our board members, and you guys know know your colleagues pretty well, the 30 some

37 of us.

37 of you. Yeah. So

Yep. Yeah. No. I, yeah. I know it's gonna be a challenging budget, but I think, you know, these are important discussions to have particularly because, it was very challenging last year or this year, whatever, last fall preparing for this year.

The one thing that I would ask too, Jolene, kinda shifting away from from the fees and and back to kind of some of the service level, items are you you mentioned those specifically the example of the the fish cleaning stations. I'd be curious what one of those costs, like, what what your annual, you know, operations costs are for for a fish cleaning station. And not that we want our parks to look like a NASCAR, but is there potential sponsorship opportunities for, you know, some of those more enhanced amenities that we could consider versus just shuttering the facility, just to kinda think outside the box a little bit. I I don't know who would necessarily wanna throw a sign on a fish cleaning station, but, you know, it it would certainly get some exposure. And we we can't ask our friends groups to to do more than what they're already doing.

So, you know, as much as I don't love corporate sponsorship, I think we're in a in a spot where that probably is an option we're gonna have to consider if, if we can find a partner.

K. Other thoughts, questions? Well, again, I appreciate Julian starting this earlier because we wanna keep our parks at, you know, the highest level that we can. So it's a it's a good step. Thank you.

Yeah. So Leil and I will start to dig into some of these questions and data that you guys have asked for. Pretty hard over the next couple of weeks we'll get some information together, bring some of that back to the next park commission meeting. You're really basically gonna see this as an agenda item moving forward and, you know, through the June as the schedule allows. And then Don, certainly, by March into early April, we'll meet with you.

Lael and I'd happy to come down to the CCB or meet virtually or whatever, for us to get together and really put together that proposal, that then park commissioners can can react to. My goal would be to have a proposal, pretty firm for you all to provide impact, you know, feedback on by the April 22 meeting. Could be tweaked. We'd wanna release it, like, do a press release and start getting that information out to the general public, you know, May. Probably have the public hearing on Wednesday, June 10, which is a regular park commission meeting date.

I'm gonna propose when we look at our our schedule, that we add back in the June 24 park commission meeting, which would have been a regular park commission meeting date. We omitted it from the schedule

There could be a doubt.

Because there were two if we had kept that, there would have been two park commission meetings in between county board meetings, which just really isn't necessary because, you know, there's only gonna be pressing business when we get referrals. And so I had said, oh, we don't need that second June meeting, but now I I actually think we do because that's when we could then vote. You could all vote on those fees so that they that revenue would be ready to to be included in what I expect will be around the July 1 department budget deadline. So just, like, thinking about logistics here as we lay out this calendar, every meeting that we can talk about this, we will be talking about it through the June.

And it it is one of our main responsibilities. So that's why we get paid the big bucks. Thank

you. Okay.

We're now on to see the future The summer meetings. Outdoor locations.

Alright. I'm gonna share my screen. This was included in your packet. It's our outdoor, meeting location history. So we get we get the opportunity I don't know why this won't go down. There we go. And we get the opportunity to spend several of our summer months outside visiting parks. If there's a friends group in that location, we'll then hear from them as well. And it's one of the best I think the best things that I love about Park Commission is, like, getting out and meeting within a park with all of you. See the cool projects, be in the shelter, hike afterwards, all the fun things.

Go in the water. Yeah. So I like to pick these so we can get them on the schedule pretty early so we all know where we're gonna be going. This year, because of joint meetings, conservation fund presentations, now this public hearing, you know, we're gonna have one, two, three, four, probably only four outdoor meeting dates. So last year, we had five, and I wanted to open up the floor for suggestions from all of you. I know. Look at that sad face. Where you want to go? Where we haven't been? What you want to see?

Kate, let's hear from folks. I've got a list, but I'd like to hear others' people's list first.

Should we just shout it out?

I'm just I mean, I personally, anywhere where there's a body of water and or places we haven't been to in a minute, it would be great to go to some places where we haven't been.

So It's also super nice if there's a shelter and a restroom. Okay. Also that. I'll bring the tent if there's not.

But

those are helpful too.

The other question I would ask is what the staff you and staff feel we should, have the education of the commission on, and here is a coming issue or a continual problem we have to face and we can actually see it. So that would be one consideration because

Looks like we

of the resources board used to meet at DNR. They were often taking it to where we got an issue here. We want the board to see it. So

Just looks like we haven't been to Indian Lake in about nine years if I'm looking at this right.

It's 2021, but it was one of mine because it's still five years. And that's

Oh, okay. I don't oh, yeah. It is on 2021. But I don't know if, you know, the Ice Age Trail can meet us out there and show us what they're doing. I don't know if that matters or not. But

It might be flagged by then.

Yeah. We Depends on the timing.

Yeah. Or do it Yeah. September too. Yeah.

September 23. Is that what he said they'd be there?

They'll be there early. They're the ninth to the September 13.

Ninth or thirteenth, yeah. I would like to go sometime to have a see Springfield Hill because I think it's gorgeous. I love it.

Okay. Also

The other thing I don't know if we're scheduled on April 22, but we're scheduled for a meeting. But that's Earth Day, and I think it'd be nice to be, you know, some place.

There's an event here happening now. You're you're gonna be at the event.

Okay. I'm gonna be here. Okay.

Alright. April 22. Meeting, and

the event will be

All right. Then we got it. Let's do Lenny Lake Farm. There you go.

I've never seen Cheetahgar Forest. That's another one. And then Sugar River. I mean, I don't know if there's any place we could actually meet there. I know it's just there's not really parking or anything designated.

By the barn? Yeah. I mean, did the Davidson unit last That's true. Summer. And we we didn't go out to explore. The new property hadn't been demolished. You know, like the homesteads hadn't been demolished. But there's a lot of work that has happened there.

Yep.

Is there any it'd be interesting Camrock was it's hard to believe this already, but it's '21. I'm curious as to what's the status of the beer cave.

It looks great.

We know we haven't been to La Follette in a long time. I can't see it anywhere here on the list. It hasn't changed.

It's a little tired.

It's a little I know.

But why not see it? Yeah. We could go see it. And there's a shelter.

I know. And there's water. Where?

Lafayette. It's on the east end of the lake.

Yeah. But well, we haven't been there in a minute. I don't know that we've ever been there.

I can't remember ever meeting there, and it's been twenty two years for me. Is that what I heard? Yeah. Yeah. So what do you have on the list?

Well, so we definitely have more options already on the list than we have dates, but we've got Indian Lake perhaps in September to see the new Ice Age Trail alliance Mhmm. Alignment. Springfield Hill, Shydigger Forest, Sugar River Wildlife Area, particularly the the really large acquisition that we made Yeah. A couple of years ago. Now that is open to the public. Camrock and La Follette.

That's good.

I mean, we went to Mendota in '23, but we'll have significant improvements opening in May. Yeah. So that might be great to see. Mean, Badger Prairie too. We talked about preconstruction, but then would get the opportunity to see post construction.

What what's the finish date on Mendota? I

mean, we're hoping to have that punch list done by May 1. I mean, the grass will still be growing in, but campground shelter open season.

Be nice.

You know, and you'll all get an opportunity to see that for a ribbon cutting too if we don't have a meeting there. You'll be invited to the ribbon cutting window. And probably Badger Prairie will have a ribbon cutting too.

Uh-huh. Yeah. The ribbon cutting.

Yep. Any other thoughts or things? Jolene, why don't we just count on you kinda assigning what makes most sense?

Good. Yeah. I'll do that, and then I'll send it out with the minutes, specifically highlighting that for all of you with an updated meeting schedule list that includes these locations, includes adding back in that June 24 meeting. And so we'll articulate when the public hearing is, when we're going outside, etcetera. So that's I'll stop sharing and then make sure we can get nods everywhere else.

Okay. So that's the the summer meeting, scheduled discussion. Future meeting, we have one on March 25. That'll be just like the one on, well, it won't be just like the one on the twenty second because the twenty second will be Earth. Earth day.

Yeah. And we cannot have a meeting that first, what would normally be our earlier meeting date in April because it's Passover. So that's prohibited from having having meetings. So that's why you won't see an April AFISH.

Okay. Is there any other, around item I, any other such businesses allowed by law? Anybody have anything? Okay. Then the last thing is adjourned. Is there a motion?

I'll move.

Second. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Thank you, everyone.