Farmland Preservation Plan Steering Committee - Regular Meeting

I will call the Dane County Heritage Preservation Commission meeting for June 10, 04:30, in order.

You have the roll.

And our first item, b, consideration of minutes. I'll take a motion to approve.

I think they're fine minutes. I move for approval.

Second?

I'll second.

We have a a motion to approve and a second. All in favor, aye. Aye. Can we hear him? Can we hear? I read his lips, but I couldn't hear him. Yeah. I'm not hearing him.

I just made a aye. Miles, aye.

Okay. Great. Thank you.

We I think we have on a report to committee, but in a form of a presentation?

Yep. Yep.

Okay. So we'll do that first before we go on to reports. Maybe that's one and the same.

Alright. Let me get my screen share here.

You want me to share in youtalk?

Sure.

If you

wanna do that.

Is it the

If you can't share, let me know.

This in the I'm looking at

the folder.

Yep. I'll change it six nine. That one there. Okay.

We're gonna go with.

Can you see Patrick?

I can.

Okay. So at our last meeting in April, the commission discussed having, staff go out and talk to the landowners of the six properties that we nominated to put historical markers at. So Kurt and I did that, and so this is just a update of that of those meetings along with some staff comments as well about each of the sites. Well, that kind of described what I just said. So those are the six sites that we went out to you, and then we'll go through those one by one.

So the Aided Deer Home is the first one. If you recall, that's in the city of Fitchburg and and the country area there, the rural area. We met the two home the homeowner there, and they preferred a two post marker near the the side of the road. It could it would probably fit as far as aesthetics there. It has kind of a country road feel to it.

Cars could pull over and read the sign. There are after we met with the landowner, Kurt and I took a look at kind of where the property lines are, some vegetation issues, and spoke to the city of Fitchburg. So the I don't know if you wanna go to the next slide because it shows a little bit of picture. So, we have to stay out of the road right of way according to city Of Fitchburg, which is, the area that's east of that green line along the road. So we have to stay on private property.

They won't allow any sort of signage to go into right of way, which, you know, brings it in far from the roadside quite a bit. Additionally, the corner of the property is somewhere between where that pine tree is and where the field is. So when we were out there, we were thinking originally, and the landowner was too, that it the corner marker of the property might be right along the field edge, but it does seem like it might be in a little bit. So when we consider that, it gets pretty tight there, for a two post marker. A single post might be, be better.

There could be room on the south end of the property as well. It runs into an electric box in that area, so we'd have to kind of avoid that, obviously, and get to talk to the the landowners a little bit more about what they prefer. But when we were out there, least they wanted something in the Northeast corner. But if we're looking at a two post marker that, it might be a little tight. So, Kurt and I are gonna go out there at some point in the coming weeks with a metal detector, try to find that corner post. Mhmm. Maybe measure it off and see what can actually fit.

With some research, I looked that the property itself was not surveyed, but the farm field around it was surveyed at some point along the way. So there's supposedly rebar corners put in there by that survey. Mhmm. And, unfortunately or fortunately, when we went out there, the corn was cut to the ground. Mhmm. So it looks like there's all kinds of room to put a big giant sign up there. But then when we, when I brought up the Google Maps image on the right there, if you get seven foot cornstain in there, it'll cut off that corner real hard.

Mhmm.

So we're gonna head back out there and kind of get a distance because I you know, we're kinda split the difference between the farm field, not wanting to impede the the vegetation on-site. We don't wanna take his tree out in the process, etcetera, etcetera. So we may have to back off a little bit and see what best fits the site.

Mhmm.

Does that all kinda make sense of

the It makes sense. Restrictions. Can follow in what you're saying. Yeah. Okay. So it just to make clear, the the text that I wrote was for a six foot sign. But if we go to a single post sign, we'll have to cut that text by 300 characters or so. So it's easier to cut than it is to add. So Mhmm.

And I'm

It just won't have as, you know, well articulated story, but we have to figure out where we can take things out and not lose too much.

And we'll have to keep the balance of, having the side inside but not having the backside either because of it being private property. Oh.

Because I'm So I'm not sure. There's there's variations you can do. You could do the same text on each side, or you could do

I'm not

sure blank sign blank on one side.

Because I'm not sure they want people pulling in. I want I think they want people pulling over, but not pulling in. It's hard to know.

Yeah. Okay.

So we'll have to figure out first what we can fit, and then we'll go from

there. Okay. Yeah. It was unfortunate. We were really, really prepared for that to post sign. But yeah.

Standing next to that wide open field, it's like,

oh, we've got all the room in the world.

Yep. Yeah.

But alas.

K. Next one is Carrie Whitehorse, Home and Studio in Monona. So I met with Deb, Harry's widow. She preferred a single post marker, and the same thing, private property, thinking single side would fit well. And there are three locations that that Deb was talking about and her her son as well when I went out there. It's on East Broadway, which is considered a county highway. So waiting to hear back from the county highway department on their restrictions as far as encroaching into the right of way. So on this map, you can see the three yellow stars. Those are the three I don't know if you can hover over it or at all.

You can see there's two up here. Yep. And there's one way down here on

the corner of the Okay.

So the two on the north side of the house, which is where the studio was, and and it's still intact. It went in there, and it's just gorgeous, all the artwork in there. So that those two yellow markers would be the where the studio and the house is. The one that's off the map a little bit, that's where the the repair car repair business was. So that was, like, kind of a third choice if we run into right of way issues.

But I'm hoping that it's up to the committee. But I think near Broadway would get a little bit more visibility rather than this dead end road, and, people could see it along the sidewalk as well. There could be the possibility the northwestern most one that's a little bit secluded as far as trees. Don't know if you wanna go the the next page. It might show a little bit better. So that's the site there. So it sits kinda between those two pine trees a little bit further out. You you can't see the house from there. I think if if staff were ranking it, this would be probably the the second best spot. We'll I'll show the first best spot in a second.

But that would, again, be a single sided post. If you get closer to the sidewalk, it gets into right away issues, though. And then next slide. It would be on the south end of the sidewalk, in that little patch of grass. We'd have to see how much cement might be down there, if it's easy to get a post in or not, but that would be maybe a more preferable location.

Of course, we got the telephone pole to consider too and if there's any wires underground. But you can see the house a little bit more there. And then the third location should be on the next slide. Would be along the east side of the the sidewalk just so that it gets on the private property. Again, if there's a road right of way issue from the Dane County Highway Department, we have to put it on private property. And both those first two locations end up in to be in road right of way. This might be the the third alternative. But, again, we'd have to look it on private property, and talk to the the apartment complex manager. But we didn't go down that road just because of we're looking at the actual Hairy White Horse property itself.

And if we go back for a second of these three sites, you talked with the the whale and the sun about the one on the near the apartment building and the one nearest to the creek. Is that correct?

Correct.

Yep. That's a good point.

I this the one in the middle that was kind of just off the driveway and just into the grass a little bit was something that Ben and I came up with as we talked this process through. So we'll have to kind of figure that out. This is the one that is our idea and wasn't discussed with the landowners as of yet.

I have a question. Yeah. If it's put on private property, then doesn't that suggest then it's the property owner's responsibility to take care of it?

So we spoke to the court council, and we'd have to sign a maintenance agreement with the the landowner for the county to

Good.

Obtain it. Yep. Okay. That's a good question.

I think I think there's a maintenance agreement and probably a a minor easement to get access to it.

So the the go around it.

The maintenance agreement would be to allow us

to do the maintenance rather than to require the landowner to do it.

Yeah. So if somebody came by with a baseball bat or something, graffitied it, yeah, we could go and maintain it

and fix it. K.

Perfect.

I also noticed on the Whitehurst one, a single post marker is what they want, but we've got double sided text on that one too. Yeah. Yep. You'd rather write books than markers. Right?

I guess I was up I wasn't quite aware. We're just doing a single sided marker. But

I think we could talk to Deb too to see if she

her thoughts on it.

Because if it's if it's perpendicular to the sidewalk, then people could see both sides.

Yeah. The one closest to the creek, we'd have to be careful riparian issues because even though there's maybe not a wetland there anymore, there's gonna be a setback from the creek as well. And with the way the trees are mature right there, if it would if it was parallel with the sidewalk, that might be the only way. We'll have to kinda find out where that line is and see if we can actually fit something in there. And it might be, like, directly up against the tree, which would which would negate the backside entirely.

I get you. I get you.

So it's if there's room in there, if there's two foot in there be between the right of way line and where the tree is, and we can sneak a single post in there, it'll negate the backside.

Mhmm.

If we do the one that's in the trees off to the Southwest or Northwest. If we go to the one that's farther it's it's a little a little bit more open there. We may have a chance to turn it perpendicular. That may open up both sides.

Yeah. The right of way kind of defeats the purpose of the information being available to the public. Right?

And set it farther away from if

you can go back to the map to

Oh, sorry. I'll go the other way. Okay.

The right of way makes it harder to get it closer to the so you can see the public.

And it's this isn't exact

Right. Sort of keep people from feeling like they can access the information that's there for them.

Right.

A struggle.

It's that it's that with a standard house with a sidewalk up front and a terrace and a curb, oftentimes, the road right of way is on the house side of the sidewalk. And so you're mowing road right of way when you're mowing that curb, the that boulevard piece on your yard.

Yeah. Sure.

So it's and it's this map isn't gonna be perfect because of the spatial reference of the image and the spatial reference of the parcel lines don't match up a 100%. So it'll be maybe we'll take and see if we can find a corner post in there as well to see where truth in advertising is as far as where that property line is. Because it would it'd be a nice little site in there by the trees if we could find that or but I don't wanna hide it either. Right.

Right. So we're not quite at the point where we're editing text yet?

No. No. I would definitely hold up on that.

But thank you for writing it.

Yeah.

So to be determined?

Yeah. Yeah. There's some more research to be done.

Poachunk Village is the next one that's in Babcock Park, so public property makes it a little bit easier, to locate these things. So we met with Dane County Parks. They were unsure of the best marker at this site. Their concern was the parks department didn't wanna be responsible for replacing or fixing any signage if it broke, but, again, we'd have to work on a maintenance agreement with them so that the planning and development department could fix it or hire somebody to fix it. I think we mentioned this at the last meeting.

The park's undergoing reconstruction in 2026 and 2027 to coincide with the Highway 51 reconstruction, So we might wanna hold off to put something in until that point. Originally, we're when we had a couple of thoughts when we were out there. Thinking kind of like a a waist high marker that would be an informative sign that you could walk up to and see in front of you would be kind of nice. But it's a a village that you can't really put a post into the ground, so a rock with a plaque might actually be better at this location. Coincidentally, when we were speaking with Monona about the Harry Whitehorse site, I asked them, I've seen I live in Monona.

I've seen the rocks, the plaques, and asked, like, what have you done that, and how much is it? And so they recently did one that Peck Memorial brought a rock, and they put a plaque on it at a similar thing where there was an effigy mountain that they want to disturb. So I think a rock might be an option at this point.

It's even smaller text.

Yeah. It's just it's basically a wall mount one there. It is smaller. So this is Babcock. The yellow star shows where a potential marker could go. It is right along a bike path that goes through the park, so it can get some nice visuals for people as they're walking or biking through the park.

Because as the site lays out, this area here in the woods is the both the current playground and the former village. Oh. I think they're occupied.

Playground on the village site? Right. Mhmm. Oh, wow.

We had a campground.

And the campground is over here. You can see and that's a little bit separated. If you enter right directly of Highway 51, there's a handful of different signs that are there already Mhmm. Of different styles. There's a Highway 51 memorial sign. There's a

Babcock State Historical Marker.

Right. Then there's also so there's a cornucopia of different style signs because there's, like, functional signs for the for the RV park and all kinds of things going on in that area. So and it's a bit of a hodgepodge. In in talking with Rick over the process of this that, you know, the closer you are to being able to see the sign and see the site, the better off it's gonna be. So that's, Ben and I walked the site, and it seemed a little bit more accessible from off Burma Road, is that?

Mhmm. And then onto the bike path there, onto the pedestrian path there, and being in the trees in the site kind of thing.

Do we have that picture?

This one. Picture.

Yep. So That

looks nice. You know, not not the not the walk your dog sign, but, you know, something farther in. And then with sites like these, even something as small as a a post hole, you have to have an archaeologist with you to make sure you're not disturbing the site. And and as Ben said, that's when we started thinking, are we better off setting something as opposed to serving site to get it there?

You know? Right. So that, you

know, that may be a a better option in this case. Patrick has a question. Patrick?

Would it would it be visible from this viewpoint here from the road, from Verna Road?

Potentially, yes. You know, it may be because we have to get past the fence. We'd have to get past the trees. So it may be in this area here, if you can see my mouse a little bit, just off to the left or maybe off to the right. I don't know what makes the most sense, but it yeah. But it would still be a smaller, like, building side size mounted to, know, a larger rock if if that's what you know, that's that's the thought process right now because disturbing the site is a is a thing that requires extra supervision and extra requirements.

Do you have any similar photo with perspective like this, but from the opposite end of this path, from the parking lot where you said there's a hodgepodge of science?

Let me see.

I'm just curious.

Let me see. Let me see. Let me see.

Is that the one thing I was thinking is, well, if it's visible from the road here, that's that's fine. I mean, the number of people, at least within the village, walk their dogs and whatnot here. It's not a heavily used road. When I think about how people use the park outside of the campers, they're usually coming into that parking lot at the opposite end of this path.

I don't know. You know?

A number of folks that use that parking lot are coming in to fish along the the lagoon there. I don't know how many people ever travel down from that end all the way to this point.

So stop share. Let me share this.

Is it like a dead end bike path? Is that what you're saying?

Like, this is this what you were looking for, Patrick? The entrance itself?

Oh, and is that the entrance? 51. Where the where the path goes off to the right and the and there's a road to the right for the campsites. And then to the left, there's the sheriff's boat and whatnot.

This is that this is this is that entrance right off 51 right there.

Okay.

The t intersections with that path that you were picturing. Mhmm. Yeah.

So the the path would be, like, that back right corner of this parking lot. The

path will start here and go off, towards Burma Road going that way. Because there's there's a small parking lot here, then it doesn't quite connect through with the with the RV parking or the RV section of the park. But, basically, there's a section of parking here. There's a structure over here. It no. Here's the structure here. Tree. Yeah. And that path that we were on the other side of starts over here and then winds its way through the park on the water side of the, playground, if I'm not mistaken.

And when the road is reconstructed, there's gonna be a bike path coming through there too. Right?

There's gonna be a path a crosswalk that brings that people can go from Babcock onto the from the west side to the east side, and then go down to Exchange Street, which is around the corner and into the Village.

So there'll be a pedestrian crossing over 51?

I don't think it's over. Think that it's just a Okay. On the road itself.

Oh, on grade. Mhmm. But I just wondered if there's a bike path through there. I mean, this could be changed quite a bit after the reconstruction. Is that right?

Well, there's only it it there's only so much space

Okay.

In the in the middle section of the park. Like, this this is basically mostly taken up by the water in the parking Yeah. Off the 51 right here.

Yeah. Okay.

There's a there's so I'm not sure the depth and degree of what's gonna change if they're gonna eat up, another 12 feet, say, for a a two way bike path and how that's gonna work or any kind of that's a piece of it.

Yeah. My my my recollection is the bike path's just gonna be on the opposite side of 51, not the Oh. Park side.

Oh, it's not on the park side.

I I know that they're adding a bike path along East Side Of 51. Missing link there.

Oh, k.

But in in any case, I mean, it seems like until the park is reconstructed, we can't do anything.

Right.

That's gonna be '27?

'26 to '27, somewhere in there. Yeah. Yeah. So

that's like, you'll we won't be able to do anything there this year Right. And possibly next year.

Yeah.

Okay. And then I don't know

if we want to dive too deep into this, but, when we were out there too, we talked about how south of the park, there are, remnant FG mounds along with Oh. Another 11 mounds south of the of there too. So it's just like it's this large village at one point. So it could lend to some more language or or a sign maybe not in that location. It could be more south, like Patrick had mentioned, if you wanna incorporate the mounds that surround Babcock Park as well to add language to talk about that and say, oh, you know, south of you, there's mounds. Over here, there's a village. You know, there there might be more to it.

Yep. Parts and lakes.

This is city of McFarland?

So the Mounds would be in the town of Dunn. This part of Babcock is in this, village of McFarland.

Yep. The park kinda straddles both jurisdictions.

Mhmm.

I'm just wondering if there's something that can be done, like, while we're waiting to get our plaque in. You know? Like, it it's it's a really interesting educational opportunity, and could be something at their library or just something,

I don't know,

printed brochure.

No. Know what mean? But

Yeah. I'm saying, yeah, since we can't get to it for a while, like and don't wanna really miss the opportunity, but maybe it's not for us. Maybe it's for

Yeah. We're gonna have to think out of the box here for sure

Mhmm.

At some point because at this rate, we're not gonna

come In County Historical Society have

allocated. But we can talk about that.

I don't if you wanna pull up a if you have an overhead photo that you could pull up quick. You can

Of.

Just the area. I don't know

if you can go back

to Google Map thing and just Uh-huh. No. The Google Map just so you can go south a little bit to show where that other area is.

So here or farther south? We can't see. Oh, sorry. No

worries. While you're doing that, I wonder if I could ask a couple questions. One's a logistical question. Do we have to add the price of the rock to the cost of the sign?

Good question.

Do we know how much a great big old appropriate rock costs?

Yep. I've got that cost. So on the last slide, I'll share all that. Alright.

Fair enough.

Yep.

K. And the

other question I have is, I know highway projects, especially the Feds, require extensive archaeological surveying to make sure they don't disturb anything. Do we know how thoroughly this village area has been surveyed archaeologically?

The village, I'm not sure. I know the mounds have been just because I used to work in the town of Dunn, so I know the town of Dunn stuff. But the village of McFarland, I'm not sure. I assume they did too.

Because the subject came up a little earlier about drilling holes in case we're gonna do a post. It seems like somebody would have looked into that already at least to get a big picture of what's underneath the

Right. If Yeah. Highway stuff.

Yeah. I I don't have the stuff in front of me, but I think the village is considered further west of the the highway, like, closer to the river

Okay.

That we were looking at and and far further away from the highway.

Here.

Yeah. This wait. This here's this is the entrance on 51 we were just looking at. Up here is the the bike path entrance, and my understanding is this area where the playground is is the former side of the village. Yep.

So, yeah, if you scroll out, the village is there. And then where

so you keep going down. Want exchange?

Yeah. So where it says title and nursery, there's some remnant mounds on the top of that property. And then on the south side of exchange, there's 11 more catalog mounds as well. So a pretty big cultural historical area. Mhmm.

That's surprising.

Mhmm. Just the waterway connections.

Yeah. That's the presentation? Yep. I think so.

I'll just I'll just say, you you can get a 36 by 24 marker that sits flat on a rock. Okay. It should

be a much more expensive rock.

Sure. Sure.

But that is that's the Monota Mound there.

Yeah. That's the one that Monota shared with me that they did recently in 2020 that had the rock with the face on it. Again, similar situation. They don't wanna to dig down where the near the effigy mounds. Right. And then the that kind of waist high informative sign that that we discussed with the parks department, just some images of what that kinda looks like, kinda bench height. But then the parks department shared this idea that Jefferson County did where it has kind of more this colorful story images, things like that on the side. So I wanna share that with the committee also.

Yeah. But that would require an artist to render. Right?

Yeah. We have to find somebody to to draw that up and

yep. And I I'm not sure if that's the same types of markers that Steve Madison is replacing after only 15. Those? No. It's not?

This the marker they're showing here?

Yeah.

Aren't they more like the waist ends? No. I don't think so. Ones?

Yeah. I wasn't I wasn't sure if because I know some of those

Oh, the ones they're replacing.

The ones they're replacing. Because I know those were color and but they were they were shorter ones, but color, but faded fairly rapidly.

Yeah.

That could be similar. Yeah.

The waist high one seems to have the most room for information. Sure. But also will fail faster. Just Exactly. With all the information we're trying to impart, I'm really leaning back towards the scannable thing. QR code? Yeah. You know, even though and it seems to me like if you're biking by and you go, Oh, I'm going to stop and look at this thing. If you see underrepresented community, small bit of information, QR code, I think underrepresented community is what's gonna make you think, I need to look more into this. Right? So

Hopefully, we can do QR codes with them all. I mean Which which

means we might not have to try to fit all this.

Well, if we're gonna put something on that smaller marker, we're gonna have to cut or do something much more strategic. Yeah. But the QR code could help us build a bigger story.

Right.

So wherever there's that opportunity, I think we'll we've got a website. We can work with that to do a bigger story. I don't think it's an either or situation.

Okay.

Just wanna move on to the next one?

Yep. Thanks. So next one is Lake Mendota dugout canoes in Sherwood Hills. So the village is in the process of deciding what type of sign they would prefer. We presented them with a few options.

Their initial indication is that they prefer a single post sign on Lake Mendota Drive, and we can show you some pictures of that in a second. Some other ideas that Kurt and I and some of the village members discussed were signs on a welcome kiosk. Again, another waste time informative sign and a wall mounted plaque, and I'll show you where those could possibly go. McKenna Park is where the boathouse that we discussed last time is located, and we found out that it's undergoing a re a reconstruction project and won't be completed until 2027. So one idea that the village had potentially was if they if we wanna do a sign earlier, we could have a ceremony prior to 2027 about the sign and everything, but don't actually install the signs until it corresponds with the reconstruction of their park in 2027.

If you wanna go to the next one. So multiple locations here. It it's kind of a path. So we're curt circling now is at the top of the path. You walk down this path as you get closer to closer to the lake. The that's star that's just yeah. He's circling there. That's Lake Mendota Drive, which is where the village parks commission had said that they might like to see a sign. The village board still has to discuss it. And then as you get closer to the lake, there's two locations I'll show pictures of. The westernmost star is the boathouse itself, and then the easternmost star is this lookout that they're reconstruct reconstructing in 2027.

Because if you recall from one of the previous meetings, Bill Crackenbush had had mentioned the boathouse itself, as having an interior building side marker possibly on one of the posts inside the ins or not inside, but, essentially, it would be under the shelter of the roof, the boathouse.

So this is the area that the Short Hills Parks department discussed. There's a path. You can kinda see it in that well, rightmost picture. It leads down another way to the boathouse. There are a few signs here, as you can see. There's a park sign. It's maybe less visible, but to the to the left of the path, there's a a rock with a sign on it talking about beautification of the park and the history there. So it I don't know. From our staff, thought is it might get kind of busy with the other signs there. So it's not our preferred spot.

But, again, that's where the village parks department had discussed a location at this point, and it has to go to the board next. And if you go to the next slide.

Are all of the locations subject to their reconstruction in 2027?

Yes. They have

a they have a master they're just finishing the master planning process for the whole park. Yeah. It has it's related to the sesquicentennial, the village itself. And the village president at the time seemed very keen on if we could figure out some way to get something there, then there could be a I mean, because we all feel that this this particular item on our list is going to have national, if not international, notoriety. And and the village president was hoping to have press related to county board, county executive.

The village, Maybe he can use it partly to springboard the the local funding of the master plan, but partly to bring, you know, some awareness of the plaque itself also.

Which year is the was it the centennial, you

said? Sesquicentennial. Sesquicent. Would it be '28,

or was

it '27?

It was '27.

Yeah. Okay.

Is it

By that time, the historical society's new museum will be up, and there's gonna be a focus on the dugouts there. So then there's another place for people to gather their information.

Right. And somebody said there was gonna be one of the canoes is gonna be at the Smithsonian as well.

News to me. That's kinda cool.

I thought but I wasn't sure the source on that.

So Maybe. That's kinda cool.

But it's if you haven't been, it is really when you

Haven't been to the site?

To the site itself. There's a there's a small parking lot, and by small, I mean, like, three spots. And this is a a ravine, not ADA accessible by any stretch of the imagination. They've just finished the redoing of the, one of the only lumber bridges on Lake Mendota Drive. Oh, yeah. It's so it's just been redone. That bridge has been redone. Wow. And you can get a sense of with the bluff and how the access to the lake works, why the ravine was used so many several thousand of years ago. Oh.

Because you kind of as you walk, you drop below the horizon, and it drops down under the underneath the bridge and into the down to the boathouse.

Okay.

There's the there's the sand slough right next to the boathouse, how they used to dump the sand there because they used to make a beach Oh. Just on the on the water side of the the boathouse, you know, probably the forties and the fifties.

So they kept dumping more sand.

The yeah. And there's, you know, a

concrete

block slew off to one side where you can just see how they used to port just port it down there to keep a beach alive for the time being.

Well, there's a lot of history all over there. There is. Thanks.

So the site where the table and the bench are?

Yeah. So that like, on next slides, we'll show it to you the what the reconstruction looks like. Which one? Yep. That one. So you can see where the the bench is in the bottom left. So that's what they're doing

sense to me.

With signs.

You're looking at the lake. Yeah.

Right.

It is. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So Then we have to wait.

And then the top left is what that kiosk parking area that Kurt had mentioned. They're putting a kiosk up there. Right right one is showing the boathouse. So, you know, there could be a sign at the kiosk. These are all and ors.

It could be a sign at the kiosk, the the lookout, the boathouse. There there's a lot of possibilities here. But, again, the village had said that they wanna see something on the Lake Minota Drive. At this point, the parks department said that or parks commission. So I think maybe see I wanna see what the commission thinks here about the location, and then we could get back to the village and and let them know that, you know, that, yes, that's a great spot, but there's other spots that we're considering too that we'd like you to consider as well for a sign.

I

would say the village knows its park best.

Okay.

You know, like, where people will see it unless that's my immediate thought, but I don't know for sure.

It's it's the we continue to step back and forth between the the the billboard sign, like, in the awareness sign on the street to say down here, there's a thing, or the the proximity to the actual site where you, you know, standing on the the boathouse or standing on the overlook, you're looking at this the plaque says out in this, you know, out in this lake below deck, there is all of these historic markers and landmarks and and and artifacts and things like that. And you can then then you can read it and see it at the same time. So we kind of, you know, we kind of have done a little tail chasing where it's do we wanna do it to bring people into the park, or do we want them to read it once they're in the park? And it's

this park's gonna get a lot of traffic. We don't have to build audience for the marker. There's Yeah. Just built in public that's gonna be coming to that site.

Yeah. And

When you're talking about that they wanna tied into assessment centennial and everything, does that mean they want the they're more interested in the billboard sign?

They were interested in the the single post sign is what But but the idea of it being

out front saying, hey. Come into this park and look at this thing.

Yeah. And if you wanna go go up a slide. Up a slide? Or maybe it's two. This one? I don't if that's a parking lot. Oh, one more. Yep. So it'd be at this entrance here to the park is where they were thinking put put in a sign.

Yeah. It's tricky. If you're trying to put in language for a marker, you're talking about a distant Yeah. Location.

So then I take it back that they know they're parked best because then I think it it I still think it's better to

be Well,

they may know their park,

but they don't know what a, you know, what a marker might require.

And I and I think they're looking at it as the billboard sites as in if you go into the site, you will see Yeah. Kind of thing. And

But with dugout canoes, all you're gonna see is the lake. So

Right. Right.

But you can you're gonna be talking about the ancient lake rim where, you know, the the lake's artificially high, and you have to discuss the lake being shallower than it is now and how they put all their boats underground to preserve them during the winter. So you're you're really talking about that interaction between the water and the land, and being lakeside makes a lot more sense.

Yeah. And I think that's where Bill had been talking about it too. It's like going down the he talked about the inside of the boathouse Okay. As well. So I don't know.

Where we were with the if we don't spend the money, what happens to it? Is that still an issue? I don't remember what the answer was. Like, if we have to wait until '27 for two of them, do we lose is is that does that not work?

It was unclear, Patrick. I don't know if he gave us a definitive answer, but my understanding is it's likely that it can carry over.

Yeah.

But that if we don't spend it, we're definitely not gonna be able to ask for more. Yeah. Right. So that's those are the two issues, I think, we have to grapple with.

Right.

Yeah. Anything can happen. But, I mean, at this point, I think the money can carry over. Patrick, does that make sense?

Yes. Capital funds can carry forward. We you know, we have I think what helps is having a plan for use in place. It's not like the money's been authorized, and there's just simply nothing to spend it on. We've identified items on you know, for which to spend it on. So so the carry forwards are totally justified.

Yeah.

Shall we continue? Yep.

I think I'll have Bert interject in a second here with the stuff he found, but we went out to the town of Rutland. We went to the cemetery there that that we thought that was Robert Valentine Farm surrounded. Their township would prefer a single post sign. We thought two sided or one-sided would probably be okay. There's a cemetery you can walk around on either sides, and it could you see the the information. But I will have oh, here's a picture. So the star is where we were looking at potentially putting the sign. It it wouldn't be right next to that that hut, but, you know, somewhere in that location. Just off to the right. Yep.

And then, it'd be kind of along the path there in the bottom right hand corner. But there's a parking you can kinda see the parking Yeah. Blockades there.

Here.

Yep. So somebody could pop out, take a look at it too. There's another historical marker on the east side of the property as well, kinda where that white car is. Yep. Where he Yep. Yeah. About the the building that's to the left of the cursor, the old church there or community gathering space. But Kurt found some more information about Robert Valentine.

I'm gonna stop share real quick and then reshare again. Where am I resharing? Resharing this.

That platment?

Mhmm.

Not sharing. There it is. There it is. Okay. True to form, Brian standing called me last or sent me an email last week and said, do a double check on the the Valentine deed for the property that the church is on.

Double check to make sure where the farm was. As it turns out, Robert Valentine was on the deed for the church property itself because he was one of the three trustees that purchased the property in the first place. When I did a larger search, I found where the property actually was that Robert Valentine owned. If you'll see, the red square on the map is just about a mile west of the church site. He purchased that from The United States as a a land patent.

What year? You know? 07/01/1848.

'48.

Okay. And then, I did a little bit broader search, and I found no no less than six purchases just under Robert Valentine's name where he expanded this particular 40 here. I think he added two more forties onto it. And then, there were some other property southeast of there as well. And then I didn't even I did not branch out to the sons. I, I ran across Shadrach, and he purchased property midway between the two, I think it was.

His father was Shadrach, and his first son was Shadrach.

Okay.

So that that's what makes it I think confusing.

I think this one may have been Shadrach's property. There was also Robert t and Robert p Valentine.

Robert. Yes.

Yep. So we have, with his connection to the church, I still see the connection to the site Yeah. And to the signage there. It just may change the story on the side.

Yeah. Absolutely.

Because he was a a landowner and appeared to not hesitate a bit when it came to buying further property, buying community property essentially, to set up the church that has been there ever since.

Is an African American church?

No. United Brethren of Christ.

That that's not

He was black. Right? He was black.

Yeah. Which I find very surprising that he was part of United Brethren. So maybe that's cool in those days, you know, to have an integrated

And is 07/01/1848, is that before we became a state? Were we September, or were we

I don't know.

I mean, that's why I'm wondering why he didn't buy it from the state of Wisconsin. He bought it from the United States government. Most Does that matter?

No. Most of the patents came directly from The United States. Okay.

He he lived there as of '46 because one of his children were born in Wisconsin at that year. So that's how we know he was there at least a couple years before that purchase.

Okay.

Yeah. So it's a it's a it's a big story. Lots of

It's a big story. It was it was yeah. As soon as I put his name in and stopped focusing on this particular section of this particular township, suddenly there's six and seven more purchases and, you know, land assemblage and then transfer out and then further assemblage.

He was a land purchasing entrepreneur. He was in Ohio. He bought land there before he moved to Wisconsin where he bought land, where he moved to Iowa and bought land, and ultimately became a pastor in Iowa in Fayette County. And so he kept moving with the frontier and buying property and moved west, originally from North Carolina. But him and his father, both from North Carolina, moved to the town of Rutland, both bought property.

I wasn't sure if it was a federal patent or not, but now you've confirmed that. Yep. And so I think that's what he's done. And It was probably he made made a living that way What? As a farmer.

The United States was probably the best land market deal at the time.

Yeah. Absolutely. He was a free man. He had never his family there's no record of his family ever being enslaved. Even though he came from North Carolina? Even though he came from North Carolina. His father wasn't a slave. He wasn't a slave according to what I've

read. Wow.

So the story I was thinking of telling is Robert Valentine on one side, but then he had two brothers and two sons that were union soldiers. Right. And then even I found out his son-in-law, his daughter Mary, married someone who was also a union soldier. So that would be the other side

Mhmm.

If we do a two sided marker.

And they don't have existing relatives? They don't there are there any more Valentine's around?

There may be. I would think so.

Oh, it's a big family. Yeah. He had at least six kids when he was here. I think more eight total. His kids didn't have his big family, though. Some of them didn't have any kids. But I think there may still be living because if you look at that Ancestry? Yeah. Yeah. I've been all over ancestry.

K.

There's a big but it doesn't bring you up to the most common. That's usually held as private information. But if you look at the book Make Way for Liberty, they do have a photo of one of his brothers that they got from an existing family member. So there must still be some out there. Yeah. We could definitely try and get in touch with them and make them part of whatever we do there. Mhmm. For sure. So

We still can only get a single post sign here.

Is that is that do we have permission?

Do we know what we need

to know to make that

They they're going to install it for us.

Yep. Hey.

It was the town board chair

Yep.

That met us out there. He was we were, you know, kind of moving around the site, and, know, we discussed up by the current church sign or where he and he thought it would be more practical down near the parking lot. And it seemed more practical when you thought, okay. This is this is the church. This is the farm. So that's a little fractured, but I think there's personally, I think there's a connection between the union soldiers, the cemetery, and the church.

Yeah. I think there are some union soldiers in that cemetery from what I've heard. So there's a lot to say. And so the marker could be the start of any kind of interpretation you might wanna do there. They have a big empty church in there, and I think they rent it. But interpretive blacks are probably a possibility.

Mhmm.

I mean, it's it's a it's a beautiful site. Mhmm. It really is.

Yeah. It is. Alright.

I saved the most promising ones for last. This is promising sites.

Okay. One is

this one

is You wanna leave on

a good Yeah. Exactly.

You have one more. Right?

You have one more. This

one is where we were. And I'm sharing this one. Okay. Back to sharing.

And we're

next one? Yep.

Woo hoo.

Last one. Van Berg Heights Capehart housing. So city of Sun Prairie owned, same thing. They're willing to install it. Two sided single post made the most sense with the the city and us when we're out there. There's the star where we would locate it at the entrance of the park, and there's already posts there that they could pop out, put a new one in, double sided, right along sidewalk, leads you into the park.

It actually says no horseback riding on that city. Yeah. Yeah. In the middle of the city.

Yep. So

so they they thought it was out of use. Yep.

Alright. So either I I you know, we talked about QR codes or they were willing to you know, if there's a picture, they'd be willing to have a picture on there too of what the housing looks like as well. So this one also you know, this one can be greenlit pretty easily, it seems like.

Maybe it was two sided. That's great. Mhmm. You can get it. Yep.

Yeah. What I'm what I'm finding is that there there's Vandenberg Heights, but then there's Prairie Homes. Okay. And they were both part of the military installation of 280 homes. It got separated at one point where the Air Force owned one part and the Army owned the other.

And so they had different, trips to becoming public owned you know, the city they transferred to the city at different times. So it's a little more complicated story than I first thought with just Vandenberg Heights. Mhmm. But there's a whole separate section that was also part of that original building of homes for Truax Field, airmen.

And if you if you go in the neighborhood knowing what you're looking for, then you can see that very distinctive housing

Yeah.

All the way around the park Mhmm. All through the neighborhood.

It is very distinctive. Mhmm. Very, very simple. Mhmm. Yep. They tried to build it as low cost as possible.

Yeah. It seemed like a a design not designed by a

Local architect.

A Chicago or North architect? Yeah. With the with the open garage carports on

each side. Carports.

They're just carports. There's no garages covering the cars.

It's only half a basement. Yep. So it was there were, like, a quarter million of those housing units built under K Part Act, so there's lots of them throughout the country. And some of which are now on the national register. That's another thing to keep in mind.

So

those last two seem like okay to go ahead with writing up the text for two sided sign.

Yeah. So Van Bergkites for sure.

What's that?

Van den Bergkites for sure. I I I feel like I could spend the next five years researching Valentine now. Now I've cracked that open going, there's so much more here.

Yeah. I know. I know. I'm following the rabbit hole into that. It's up.

And so as promised, here's kind of a a breakdown, small text, but the type of signs for each of the locations that we discussed with the landowners, estimated cost. You'd asked about the the stone. So Monona gave me the estimate or the invoice from 2020. It was $17.40 for the stone and the sign. I just tacked on 500 just for inflation purposes' safety. So you're looking at about $22,000 for for all the signs together. That's if we did a two post sign at aided year. Yeah. You can see that that's almost 8,000.

At least there won't be a tariff on the stone.

Okay. Yeah. And then I put installation help, and, you know, we're we're unsure for Fitchburg and Monona, their private property. Maybe the city would come help, but we haven't we we just try to get over the road road right of way hump right now. But then Rutland Sun Prairie, they would help install.

Sherwood Hills seemed like they were likely to help if it coincide with their reconstruction. And county parks also at Babcock, perhaps if it coincide with the park work. If it's a rocket, it should be pretty simple. And then the timeline, we're looking at, those two that would coincide with the park reconstruction being pushed out more, but the other ones would be probably 2026 based on the shipping. You think it might take up to six months for

It could. Come in. It could easily. It last I talked to them, which was quite a while ago, they were inundated. Okay. Coming out of COVID, everybody wanted a marker. Oh. And they've been, they've automated as much as they can. I used to be able to call and get a person on the phone. I can't do that anymore. No. I tried leaving messages. I tried emailing. But last I recall, it was six months before you get your marker.

Sure. So that obviously would push us out to 2026. But, yeah, those those last two we discussed, I think, are gonna be the the low hanging fruit, easy ones to pursue at this point. And then just depends on you know, I think Ada Deer and and Harry Whitehorse are also pretty easy. We just kinda have to find out where those corner markers are and and what can fit there.

Yeah. It's placement. That's more of an issue than anything. Right?

Mhmm.

Yeah. I mean, k part seems to be Vandenberg Heights seems to be the prime one. We don't even have to dig the hole. You know? So that one seems very, very, very doable, like, as soon as we have the language based on the size. Okay. You know, we could probably move on that one.

So do we, like, want PR for this when they go up? And is we do we let the city take that on? We don't have our own little PR department for a little commission, do we? Or Well, there's county? Or, like, how does that work?

The county has press releases, etcetera, etcetera. So, I mean, I would defer to Patrick as far as, like, a county board press release or a county executive press release on this project, but that happens all the time here. So, we could probably talk to Patrick Miles about that because there's

there

are PR staff.

Okay. Talking about, like, a marker dedication ceremony or something like that? Right. Yeah. It's gonna be in 2026, though, so we got time.

And then why is the two post so much more than the one post?

It's huge. It's, like, 300 pounds of aluminum. Okay. So there's shipping involved too, and that's included in

Now you're talking tariffs.

Now you're yeah. Aluminum?

Yeah. I know. I don't know what the price of aluminum is with tariffs. I don't know.

You know? But Yeah. And those costs are based on January 2025. So, yeah, that might have changed.

Yeah. It might have changed.

Something happened on January 20, I think.

So I mean, if you're looking at 22,000 for the full amount as of your calculation, gives us a little room to breathe.

Yeah. We have a $30,000 dollar budget for this. So 30?

Mhmm. Okay. I thought it was 26, but Yep.

Even better. 30. Okay. I checked with her supervisor.

Alright. Good. So is there anything else we should be considering?

Is there any way we can do this with some sort of previously used something? What? Other than ordering a full new sign. Is there any other way to get around that? Like

Excuse me? How do you you mean someone other than Siwa?

What's Siwa?

Oh, the maker of the marker Oh. That we normally use.

I'm just thinking tariffs and, like

Oh, some other material?

Used signs. I don't know. Something that's, like

I don't know if you can get a used sign that's gonna fit our needs.

And I'm just I'm just thinking what if, you know, like, what if this suddenly becomes the $10,000 sign or something because of the situation we're in right now? I don't have an answer for you, but I'm just proposing that what if we get into a situation where we can't get this done because of what's going on.

Because of the tariffs? Yeah. I don't know. I mean, let's check with about their current price list. We just have to keep those costs in mind.

Yeah. We well, I mean, if we if we if we ran one through the process, the

Yeah.

The k part through the process and see how it came back

Yeah.

Say, January 26, we get to go stand in the snowbank in February 26 and have our little, you know, dedication, that kind of stuff, and see where how bad it's gotten cost wise that would put a scale on the rest of the markers. It just would. You know, maybe six becomes five at that point. Yeah. It it just all depends on how how the Foundry we're using sources its material. Mhmm. Is it local? Is it not?

Well, at this point, we're not doing a two point postmarker, are we? It doesn't look like we are.

Possibly aided here.

Yeah. That's Yeah. Looking at.

Okay.

And and, again, like, if if you guys are looking at this price list and you're like, well, let's let's not even pursue the two posts on aided deer, you know, let us know, and then we can see if a single post works in that location too.

That's the homeowners were more interested in. Right?

They were more interested too. Yeah. They they really are very proud of the property and

wanna Yeah.

I mean, I think we should do what we can for such a

big and supportive But, I mean, if that's okay.

Alright. I think the other guidance that we want is your thoughts on that other location at Harry Whitehorse, the one that we didn't talk about with Deb that's kinda close to the parking lot, if you think that would be okay. And then rock monument idea at Babcock Yeah. And preferred location at Sherwood Hills, if you want us to go back to the village and see if they'd be interested in a different location than along the Lake Mendota Drive.

I think something along the lakeshore makes the most sense.

Yeah. I would agree.

Mary Whitehorse, that it's a third site that you haven't discussed with Deb, and that was the one along the driveway?

Yes. The Yep. Right next to the driveway. Yeah. Mhmm. Because it was because we were Ben and I were concerned just because of the road right away and how that works because there's such a there's that jog on the sidewalk right at the creek, and it gives a perceived extra yard there and more space there, but that's still mostly gonna be road right away, behind there. So is it is there room with the trees there or not?

This what we're trying to figure out. Right?

Yeah. That's the actual studio and house.

Wait. Is this actually their property right here?

Mhmm. Yeah. Well, somewhere in there. That's where we have to figure

out. Depends on

where the driveway versus? Yep. Yeah. Okay.

The the terrace is definitely not theirs. The sidewalk isn't theirs. But somewhere in that area is the corner pin that we have to put on private property.

Yeah.

Or probably put on private property. We haven't heard we have not heard from the Dane County people to find it. Yeah. Right. Well, that one yeah. That corner pin's probably into the driveway. It's Yeah. It's gonna be in the

middle of the driveway.

We may have to try and find the one creek side and swing a tape over if we can. Mhmm.

So it sounds like Shorewood Hills, we want to try for Lakeview, either a boathouse, like a wall monument, or the at that overlook. Yeah.

Okay. Overlook

first. Overlook first? Okay.

I think.

Yeah. With Harry Whitehorse, I just want it to work anywhere we can get it. It's gonna be the same marker, I think. Right? Double sided, single post.

If we can yeah. It depends on where it's gonna.

Oh, right. Right. Their backside, you may not be able to use.

It it depends on if because

If we can do a double sided marker, that would be my preference. Okay. But if the location for that doesn't work?

If yeah. Well, we could slide it in between the pine trees, but then nobody can see it. Yeah. The trees. Won't be there forever.

They won't be there forever. Well, they probably want it for screening broadcast.

Yeah. That's why

I'm sure.

From there. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. She's gonna stay there as long as she can, I think? Mhmm.

Okay. And then village.

Yeah. Thoughts on So talking about

a marker on a stone. Yeah. And then should we talk obviously, you know, this is a a year out or two, but are you thinking just the Ho Chunk village, or do you wanna look at something that's broader with the the mounds around the area as well?

Well, if we only have so much space, if we only have one side of a marker, either a small city marker or a city marker that's 16 by 24 or 36 by 24, we're gonna have, at the most, eight forty one characters. That's not a lot of room. Is there So that's the best we can do. That's the best we can do. But I think it'd be better to tell the the Central Mound story rather than everything in the area.

It it depends.

Because that's harder to get into the signal.

One is the land acquisition. Will that be done by the time the market goes in? Oh, wow. See, that's so you may you may be able to generally talk about effigies and landmarks in the area kind of thing, but you can't talk about the Toddlin property if Mhmm. Toddlin still owes it owes it.

Oh, they're part of the mound group that's under consideration to be acquired?

I think I think almost everyone.

Yeah. But it's just part of this general county protection area. Oh, protection area. Yeah. The the Lower Mud Lake protection area.

So Okay.

So which always kinda tease it up for parks and open space plan is looking for more property, then they expand in those protection areas more so than any other place. Oh. I would think that would be the smartest way to spend your money.

Does that affect what we can do with the marker you're saying?

No. No. I'm just saying if if if the property had another 90 acres on it and all of the and all of the markers were county, I don't county owned property, that would change the probably the location of the marker, the language of the marker, and the size of the marker would be my guess.

Wow. So there's a lot of to

Because A lot ifs.

Because A

lot of ifs.

So Yeah. There's a lot

of ifs.

So it's it's like, okay. And, you know, on top of that, they're gonna tear apart Highway 51 in that part of the park and work that whole thing. And so it's like

Yeah. I don't know how definitive we can be then of what kind of marker it's gonna be.

Right? But I think I think Ben's right, though, that if if it's gonna be placed in the next six to nine months, then wouldn't the split rock make the most sense? As it'll be a part of

the Yeah.

Park that's not gonna be disturbed. It's directly accessing the site. So then it'd be yeah. So That whole area, they might

I I know they're redoing they're resurfacing the bike path that we showed, and that's the most they can do because of the the village there. So, you know, may maybe if it was a rock in that location, we could move a little bit faster because that area is not being disturbed. So we could we could explore that also.

Yeah. Sure. Was Patrick it was Patrick that brought up the the entranceway of 51. We were talking that through too. So it's

Okay. Where If we can do something sooner rather than later, that I think works to our benefit.

Okay. So prefer Iraq to kind of move things along.

I think if we can get something done within this fiscal year or close to it

Mhmm.

That makes sense. K.

Yeah. And it seems to be the publicly owned property not under current not under our plan for construction is our some of our best bet.

Yeah. Okay. Alright. And was there another outstanding question? Yeah. It was okay. I had Okay.

I I would just like to say we gave the staff the assignment of doing this research, and I'm really happy with the information they get other than the way they presented it. So is great.

Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense.

Got to go play in the field.

Yeah. It was fun too. Like, when we met the landowners, you're like, oh, welcome. Oh, we're so excited. You know, everybody just loved the project. So it was really nice to see.

That's great. Okay. I'm happy to hear that.

Yeah.

Very good. So that's the presentation. Thank you, Scott. We don't really need to review the draft language at this point because we know they're not gonna fit what we have in mind at this point. But I don't see any people here for public comment. Is there any other business you guys wanna provide us with? Any more info? You guys got your marching orders?

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Skipped over the future meeting dates.

Did I?

And I I'd like to get those done in my book before Okay. Before we lose them.

Mhmm.

Do you want us to do that now?

It's up to me if you wanna do it now or if I doodle, whatever.

Oh, I could

go with the way. For y'all.

Doodle? I'll be doodle. Yeah. Because we have a couple of people who aren't here.