Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay, we are on the air. Good evening everyone. I apologize for the 6minute delay in starting this evening's meeting. This is Thursday, June the 12th. It's just after 6 PM and this is the City of Dallas Planning Commission. Uh we'll start with uh this is the call to order. Uh here we are. So let's start with a roll call of commissioners and confirm we have a quer. Commissioner Swanson here. Commissioner Gro here. Commissioner Kawash is not present. Commissioner Banford here. Commissioner Schulty here. Commissioner Spaford here. Commissioner Newell a quorum is present. Thank you very much. We'll now move on to approval of minutes from the regular meeting of May the 8th. I was not here present at for that meeting. Uh but I've read through the minutes. They look good to me. Uh are there any comments on the minutes? Any corrections or Only thing I I think it's a correction, but let me know if I'm wrong. Line two. I think I was chair pro Tim, not vice chair. So just uh yes, for the meeting. Yes, that makes sense because I was the vice chair and I couldn't be here either. Thank you, Tori. I didn't even know that. I can't even remember why I couldn't be here, but I'll remember sometime. There you go. Okay, that's pretty small. Yeah. Any other any other corrections or additions that we see? Okay. So, with that one correction that Tori's uh uh uh title was misrepresented in the minutes, do I have a motion to approve with the correction? Second. Okay. Moved and seconded. All those in favor votes say I. I. I. Okay. The minutes are passed. I think we can just probably make that correction

really easily. Uh Commission President, who was my second there? OSB. Thank you. Okay. So, now we're going to move on. There are no public hearings this evening. So, we will now move on to uh other business. Uh first item up uh is the Dallas Mill site, the uh MSARP transport transportation growth management project. Uh staff, would you like to introduce our uh uh our consultant that's going to be presenting this evening? Oh, that me or was that I'm You're both in the same direction. So, why don't you go? Um All right. Very good. Um so, tonight we have Jim Hanky in the house presenting and uh Jim, who's uh your counterpart here? Cadence Petro from um Eco Northwest is in the room here with us. Excellent. And uh let's just uh go by one by uh one here. Marcy, can you hear us? All right. Yes. Uh thank you. I can hear you. Perfect. And Michael? Yes, I can. Thank you. Uh excellent. And then we have our attorney, Greg Gobble, online as well. Thank you very much. So, take it away, sir. Thank you very much. I'll I'll just mention Michael is with ODOT and Marcy is with Herbs Works as part of the consultant team. Well, thank you very much for having us here tonight. Uh we're going to give you an update on the status of the plan and it's been quite a journey. we've been traveling together to um land on a preferred

configuration. So um this presentation is really meant as a summary of the work. So instead of going back through the hundreds of pages of memos, this really just boils it down to the key points. When we began, the purpose had about five main points. land use and transportation guidance for improvements on and around the mill site. Uh support a balanced transportation system for all. Number three, encourage land use that addresses the city's housing and employment needs. Number four, enhance community character and natural features. And number five, honor the historical context of the mill site. that was kind of captured in our purpose statement, but I thought I'd just break it down into five main points. This has been about a year, a little over a year journey, and we've gone through seven major tasks to get to uh this final version of the plan that we're presenting to you tonight. Um the the process has included looking at the site, having a site visit, walking around, looking at different types of maps, hearing about the city policies for a new east west road and um the work going on to study relocating Ash Creek. There was a market research memo that was put together that highlighted the rapid growth of Dallas in the area, the demand for housing and other types of local serving uh retail uses,

but a little bit of caution in terms of saying that the demand for industrial wasn't quite so clear, even though the policy up to this point has really been to promote industrial. Um the access to the area is a little bit challenging but ultimately uh the research you know hinted at that with strategic investment some of those factors could be overcome or addressed. So we worked with an advisory committee. Some of you were on that and we had five meetings throughout the process and got a lot of really good input and feedback from those group that group of individuals. We had interviews with stakeholders and there was 12 people involved in that. We conducted three community surveys and got a tremendous response. uh especially that first one was like a thousand respondents and then two community meetings to really make sure um we got input from a variety of sources and made sure people knew what was going on. This plan has not been happening behind closed doors. It's been out here in the open. So I wanted to just highlight you've seen this slide before I believe there was a little different emphasis between what the advisory committee told us and what the community told us. So just a they weren't completely inconsistent. It just seemed like the emphasis was a little different. The advisory committee had three main priorities. A safe, welcoming, livable community, economic development and tax revenue. So that we heard that a lot from the advisory

committee. It's got to generate taxes. And then the third major point was the flood control element because Ash Creek um today is kind of annually floods. I believe there were other so those were the main points but there was of course other objectives that the committee would like to achieve. Um, again, still a strong interest in industrial uses, kind of that connection with and extending downtown to the site. Obviously, improving traffic flow, perhaps some introducing some other uses beyond industrial and taking advantage of the active rail line in some fashion. And then from the committee, you know, it wasn't like natural areas didn't matter, but a little less emphasis on preserving nature and having housing on the site. Um, so that's what we heard from working with the committee. But when we surveyed the public in summary, there there was a surprising kind of um expression of interest in parks and recreation in the area, but I you know I think most people care about parks and recreation. So that wasn't too surprising either. There was interest in converting the rail to a multi-use path or somehow trying to figure out if that could be part of that corridor. interest in better walking and biking connections, improving the local street network, new commercial activities, uh, and then having flexibility about the zoning and making it adaptive to what the market needs because that's always tricky to predict what the market will be. when

the time comes and a developer wants to build a project, sometimes the market shifts and it's a little hard to anticipate that. So, building in some flexibility into the plan was uh stated and then alignment around maintaining Dallas's small town feel and the community identity was um that was consistent. So we through this year plus process we explored a number of options and got feedback on them different um types of land use where that occurred and then the access especially that east west access was something that kept moving around. Um, we we initially proposed aligning it parallel to the creek realignment, but then there was a point where we moved it more into the about the middle of the site and kind of bicting the site. But where did we end up? Well, we we boiled it down further to four key what we're calling them policies as they're written into the plan. Number one, absolutely reflect Dallas's history and identity. Number two, the creek is such a fundamental key to unlocking this site, and we believe there's a lot of extra benefit beyond just flood control. So we we called it go big with the Ash Creek relocation. Don't think small. Kind of think of it as getting the maximum benefit out of that major investment that it'll take to move the creek. Um extend the historic street grid in some fashion. It's not necessarily that

you need to extend every single street, but make sure it kind of connects in a rational way. and we've kind of diagrammed some of the key connections and then optional connections and then foster a mix of use if possible in addition to industrial at the site. So this is the plan we ended up with. Some of the key features are number one, there's still quite a bit of industrial zone land and it primarily is kind of adjacent to the Birch Street rail corridor on the north part of the mill site. What's new and different from the current zoning, which is all industrial today, is that there's a new east west street parallel to the creek relocation. and we've tried to shove that as far south as possible and it's kind of right at the base of the hillside and we think, you know, there's there's a few reasons for that. Um, to get industrial parcels, they tend to like the largest parcel possible. So, we didn't want to chop up that that industrial land with street connections if we didn't have to. And then it creates sort of a nice gateway and face to this whole district for in the future if we connect from Monmouth Cutoff to the west with a new east west street connection then that can be fronted with commercial uses. So that's that mix of use. It's not just all industrial. There could be some commercial kind of helping um link with the city center and the

main street and also sort of provide this welcoming front door of activity lining this new street and then also kind of integrated with this new major open space element, the the creek relocation itself. You'll see that some of that commercial zoning jumps across to the south side of the creek. There's a flatter part of that um area that look like could be taken advantage for some commercial use and and really make that a unique special area where it's activated on both sides. So that's um why you see the pink south of the creek, but as you move up the hill, it gets more challenging for commercial and industrial use. So we're showing some residential, not a lot. It's up on the hillside. And then this um interest in parks and open space, we kind of limited it to say there could be a major open space that connects with the creek and it might align with some of those existing trees up on the hillside. Um you can see we've extended central business district zoning down Main Street uh to sort of make that connection to the site and a slight expansion at the node there by Washington and Ulow and then we've dashed in some of the major uh bike connections because we want to make sure the streets are safe for all users and it's clear which of the corridors are the intended to be used by bicyclists. Uh there's an orange line also paralleling the creek and that we

believe could be a new trail and path connection um and a real amenity for this area and the whole community. So that's a bit of an overview. Um some asterisks on the map loc uh identify intersections that could be enhanced sort of acting as gateways to and from this area. So that's kind of focused on the major land use um recommendations. We're also including some ideas that um we're calling the regulating plan. And Marcy, I don't know if you want to jump in here or if you would like me to continue. Um but I thought I'd ask you first. Thanks, Jim. I I think you're doing a great job. So, if you could just continue and I'll answer questions if there are any. Sure. Well, you'll notice on this regulating plan, it's it's a bit of a diagram and it over we've overlay it on the land use um map and you'll see how that kind of magenta urban frontage line um aligns with the commercial zoning. So some of these uh what we've proposed are guidelines around creating really great streets in this area where the adjacent uses are very intentionally integrated with the street itself. So it kind of emphasizes the that new east west connection and you can see how it also goes north south along the east side of Maine and that would be part of that linkage with the main street itself to bring some of that urban character

and active ground floor uses uh fronting right on those that major transportation corridor. There's some other um kind of street network suggested that if in the future as a development proposal comes in that we believe that some you know additional blocks would be helpful but not essential if again it went more industrial and you needed to keep it as a uh industrial parcel. So, we've included another exhibit we're calling development scenarios that are labeled A, B, C, and D here on the right hand side of this slide. And they show how different types of uses might be developed and still be consistent with this vision of redevelopment at the site and still including that major east west street and the north south connections. So, it's meant to be flexible. That's the intent. Here's some of the recommended street uh crosssections. The the large one that says 84 ft is the new what we're proposing for the new east west street. And you can see how the creek is on the right hand side. And there could be a multi-use path along that. and then uh a lane in each direction. And we're showing parking on the north side because if we're trying to create that urban frontage that you saw in the other diagram, it would be helpful for businesses to have on street parking along that side of the street so people could pull over and stop and frequent those businesses.

We've also drawn Main Street and Uglow which again those streets exist. So these would be how the corridors might be retrofitted to incorporate some landscape enhancements as well as uh bike and pedestrian enhancements as well. So I gave you the short list of five um kind of major goals we set out but but we heard more than that and I wanted to you know give you a little feedback about how did we meet the range of goals and objectives that we heard. So flood control was definitely a fundamental um need as part of this plan. So we integrated that creek location as best we could based on the the current work that the city is performing with another consulting firm. So that's that's integrated in the welcoming safe livable community. We you'll notice how the the mill site transitions to the edges and we think that could integrate well with the existing neighborhoods that surround the mill site. Um and then the gateways as well. I think are a bit of an enhancement as you travel to and from the site. Economic development and tax revenue generation. It's a balance of industrial and commercial uses. So, check that box. Attracting industry specifically, we preserved um a significant amount of industrial zoning and those large parcels and how the streets are arranged will be key uh to meet that. extending downtown. The CBD zoning is along Main Street and some commercial zoning on Main Street on the west side of the mill site. Improving

traffic flow. Well, this new east west street connection is going to be a great benefit to how people kind of get to and through this part of town. activating the rail. We've preserved the corridor that if a proposal, an industrial user showed up that uh still would be possible to develop it, but it could also become this rail to trail because there seemed to be a lot of interest in that as well. mixed use. Um the additional commercial and that extension of the central business district we think achieves that preservation of natural features. You see how the plan um shows some open space up on the hillside that links down to the creek relocation and then history with the industrial zoning that remains there. you know the vision is of continued employment on the mill site itself like there was in the past and then through the review and approval process I think there's an opportunity to pay attention to the detail of any development proposal where they could reference perhaps some of the industrial past and then housing we converted some of the hilt top industrial to residential zoning Just a few more slides and then we can stop and question and answer. Um I think I'm moving at an okay pace here. All right. So, in the near term, um, what we're asking tonight, I I believe, is that the planning commission recommend to the city council that the

plan be adopted by resolution um that the plan adopted as a a concept plan. And if you looked at our PDF in the information we sent earlier, I I highlighted resolution because we had said by ordinance. So I just wanted to call out that this is a kind of late in the game change. I got it wrong and said ordinance. And so I just wanted to flag to you that no, we meant resolution. Um so that's number one. And then we believe that your transportation system plan should be updated to state that although the MSARP includes commercial on the site, which is a higher trip generator than currently designated industrial use, the plans, the traffic analysis that we performed during the process did not show a meaningful increase in expected traffic volume uh in the the forecast. So, those are the near-term actions we believe would get the plan sort of into the city's policy framework. Looking ahead to midterm actions, um the city would need to request from the from DLCD to review and comment on the plan uh in coordination for subsequent comp plan, transportation system plan, and other adopted land use amendments. This was a slight adjustment from the PDF I had sent. So again, that's why I highlighted it in red. Um, I don't know if you would like me to run through all of these other statements, but it's you need to amend your comp

plan in a couple of ways, uh, the maps, the zoning ultimately, chapter 2.6 of your development code, and then longer term pursuing grants. I think is the main um task to help with residential and performing things like converting the rail line perhaps to a trail. That's going to take a lot of um funding and the city I think has a huge role a large role to play there and kind of also I'm sure there's other partners who could be brought to the table. So that's that's kind of the quick 20 minute overview and I guess I'll stop there and see if you have questions or comments. Thank you very much. So uh commissioners uh I'll just sort of set the table for us to have a discussion and ask questions. First of all, this is not my first look at this plan. I was a member of the advisory committee that met however many times to go over all the different facets of this. So, I'm familiar with it, but I wanted to set the table with a couple of uh key points and questions for Jim. Uh Jim, tell us a little bit about the recovery and daylighting of Ash Creek. I know it's for flood control. That property does flood and if it's going to be d redeveloped in a in a meaningful way, we've got to get a handle on that. that that creek decades ago was put underground and it's an obstacle to adaptive redevelopment of of the site and it's also an amenity a community amenity that's been buried at the time

it was used historically it was used by the mill operation because they needed water they needed to float logs and so that's that's one of the reasons why it floods now is because uh it was it was designed to be backed up when when they needed it to be. So speak a little bit I mean is where it's being proposed on the on the southern edge of the site was that the original natural course or is that the is that where we're going to relocate it to? Great question about its original location. I'm not certain of Nobody is. Yeah. Yeah. I don't recall seeing a map or you know some kind of image of its original course but it's been greatly altered and impacted by you know the historic use as you mentioned. Um but you know looking ahead and the the opportunity it presents it it it's key to unlocking the development potential of the site because who wants to develop a parcel that floods every year, right? it really um is holding back that potential today. So, so it's essential that this, you know, this is one of the key first steps in moving this vision forward of a revitalized mill site with new users coming in because I my understanding is there's been some interest in, you know, buying the site and redeveloping it, redeveloping it, but I suspect when they learned of the flooding, you know, nothing's really happened. So, um, back to it's going to take a real effort to do this and and a lot of I assume public funding. So, I believe the

city, you know, should get multiple benefits out of this project. It's no small task to daylight a creek, right? So you don't if you if you were to put it in a ditch and turn your back on it like I I I believe that would be a bit of a you know tragedy. So it could make a great front door and also provide that flood control. So, by shoving it south, the hillside will help kind of manage the south edge cuz it you're going to need a natural sort of slope and grade to allow it to rise and fall with um you know, rain events and flooding. And then on the north edge, that's the part that'll have to be kind of man-made and regraded, but that's where that opportunity is to open it up, make sure people can see it because most people are really attracted to water. When you go to a lot of the best kind of um livable communities, places people like to vacation and visit. There tends to be a water element to those. It's a very attractive. people can't resist it. So, you know, we've kind of diagrammed it today to show it that there's a green edge and there could be this multi-use path that's integrated um on that north side. So kind of walking that line between its flood control, its recreation, its habitat, and it's uh you know kind of an economic driver as well because bringing in bicyclists and others has a real benefit for businesses in the area. So that's maybe a summary of the why and how we've configured even on that southern edge

also frees up the flat development area for maximum highest best use. Exactly. And we wanted to push it as far south to maintain large parcels to the north. So the further south you push it, the bigger your parcels north of it are. One other before uh we open it up to everybody else. What was the level of participation from the immediate neighborhood uh the residences residential neighbors and the property owners? Did they come and participate in the public process? And what what did you hear from the folks that live on the the edges of the mill site as exists now? Oh boy. Um I didn't the one person not here is our public engagement person but here's what I recall just a snapshot. Yeah, people who live to the north, especially along Jefferson, there is concern about change. And one of the things we looked at early on was like extending the Main Street Jefferson couplet down to the site and I think got some, you know, kind of push back, concern about that. So, we're not showing the couplet extension for a number of reasons. you know, part of it is the neighborhood feedback, part of it is the challenge of crossing the rail line because it's an existing active rail line today. Um, that's the main concern I heard. I think there's uh, you know, again, there was interest in open space and things, but the the change to that neighborhood to the north is what stands out to me. Okay. Well, commissioners, like I said,

I've I've seen this mater information before and at conclusion of our discussion on this, we will be uh asking ourselves to consider a recommendation to the city council of this plan as presented. So, I want to open it up. Who who does anybody have any questions for the consulting team? Uh is there anything else that we need to we'd like to know? So Mary, you have any questions. Okay. Okay. Rich John. An unanswerable question. And if it is, just just say that it's a long-term plan on property that we don't own and property that is for sale. And I just don't understand why we would take that risk. There has to be some way for us to secure that property. And why would strategically it's the most important property we have? Why isn't that the number one issue to us? I'm turning to Cadence who I think might be able to uh provide the best answer. Good evening. I love answering unanswerable questions because you can't get them right and you can't get them wrong. So, I'm going to go for it. Um, I agree that the city will need to think long and hard about what investments you want to make and and balance that with what community benefits you receive in return. And that is very complicated to ensure when you don't own the property. It is possible you could enter into an agreement with the property owner. In

exchange for us doing X, you will agree to Y. One example is um the creek relocation. It'll have to go somewhere. It will be on their property. You could ask for a dedication of a broader swath in order to preserve the opportunity for a multi-use path. And you could ask them to just give it to you because you are giving them developable land to the north, right? So clearly uh u you know if I was in you know the waving my wand I would want you all to own the property because then you could control its destiny. That would take a lot of money and a willing property owner to sell it to you. that might not exist, but that doesn't mean that you can't take strate make strategic investments with real opportunities for community benefits. There are incremental approaches that are also available and I would recommend them. Yeah. And I'll add because I was a participant in the advisory committee that the property owner was also an integral member of that advisory committee and was working with the city and the consulting team and all of the interested parties every step of the way. So we're not planning on property owned by someone that's not involved in the process. Thank you. So, are you saying that there's basically buyin from the owners to try and actually go forward with this plan? I believe so. That's my understanding that um the owner's rep was there kind of commenting on the features and elements of the plan and um you know I don't want to speak for him but I

thought he was supportive of the direction and you know he was um he wanted us to explore a lot of configurations which we And ultimately, I think the final one with the shoving the street, the the new east west corridor south and the light went off a bit on how preserving those large industrial parcels kind of aligned with what I believe his current objectives are. So, um that's that's my understanding. He was supportive of the direction that we we landed on. Is the owner city being involved in the aspect of relocating the creek or I mean are they investing in this themselves? Yes. Yeah. I believe they're involved. Charlie, I don't know if you want to the owner has a separate uh contract working with Jacob Engineering right now on some of that early stage design work. So they're and they got a grant from the state to do that. So they're actively involved in using the same consultant the city's using, which is Jacobs Engineering to do some of that studying of what that new creek path will look like. So yes, they're they're very much involved. Good questions. Any other questions? Um I had a question about the rail line. Is it a through line to somewhere else or is it a dead end somewhere in Dallas? I'm apologize. I don't know where it goes. My understanding is it stops just west of Main Street. There's a bit of a tail track and that's the end of the line as far as I know. Yeah. that that

that that lot that's too that's further out past like the the the Washington Street restaurant there. There's that vacant lot and then in behind there the rail line kind of ends there. Oh wow. It originally went all the way through town down this way, but the tracks exist to just pass the mill site to there. But technically speaking, and this is why we keep saying the word active, it is technically, even though it's not in use right now, it is an active rail line owned by a railroad company. So they own the underlying ground right away under it in most places, but not exclusively everywhere. Okay. Rail is very confusing when it comes to property ownership. Yeah. cuz I noticed Forest River. My wife told me that they'd recently basically thrown a bunch of asphalt completely around the rails because they got tired of people bumping over it. And that really surprised me that the rail line would allow one to do that. They may not have asked permission. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, basically, you can't run a train over it anymore. But if they wanted to, they could get it back. Yeah, they could. But I hope they know that that's done, but that's neither here nor there. Um, so I had a question about the relocated creek. I'm assuming the cross-sections that we've seen would maintain the 100red-year flood inside that creek bed that's that's proposed. I know you said Jacobson Engineering is is looking into that and they're looking at what that design would entail. Yeah, they've done a study of the whole stretch of the north of Ash Street. This section across the hillside is just one piece of that. Okay. So, they've already done it from edge of city limit out to the west and edge of city limits to the east. So, that that whole work has

already been done and I assume it's fairly constrained on the Mill Street site and that's why it that's why it floods all the time. It's because where it enters the site on the west there there's a constraint. That's that's that's the flooding issue. That makes sense. Sure. Okay. Um in here the under the imple implementation midterm the the DLCD has to look at this before we can do all these other amendments to our plans and things. What's the time frame for them to consider that and come up with with their comments and how does it affect what we can do? I'm hoping Michael Duncan, if you're there, I'm hoping you can help us answer that question. Sure. Yeah. You know, so if if we um well, maybe the short answer is 35 days um is what they expect for comment. Um and maybe the long answer is, you know, at at the time. So, right now we have a concept plan. Um and it's and it's neat and tidy. Uh, and if any of you had spent some, you know, if you had a a long evening or so, Jim's right, there's there's 100 plus pages, maybe I think was 300 hundreds, 300 pages of all the tech memos. So, there there's just a tremendous amount of information in there. Um, DLCB has been um, you know, in as part of this project, you know, they've been uh an advisory role. Um but part of that role if this were to go uh and what would likely happen go um turn into an ordinance, right? Turn into a plan amendment, they they would need to review uh those documents to to review comment less um as as they move into the adoption track. So that's that's kind of their

role there. That's why the language is there. Um, you know, where where we landed with this right now is a concept plan and that's pretty high level. I mean, planning documents are already very high level or at least can be. Um, they're policy documents. Um, and and but but underpinning that policy is all all the hard work that this team and and community and city staff have done to kind of point us in this direction. And so what the con concept plan does is like I said it's it's your compass uh that points you in that direction. Um and and on I think it's well it's on this slide here you know uh and and it's in the in the concept plan there too. Um there'll be an opportunity to amend the comp plan. There'll be an opportunity to revise the plan map and implement zoning as needed to realize um the vision of the land use here. So, um, that's that's the long kind of long-winded answer to that. Um, and two, I had my hand raised early. Sorry for waiting a little bit, but I wanted to respond to the comment too about public involvement. Um, you know, I'm keen to pay attention to that. Working for a state agency, public involvement is at the top of our list. And so, um, when I attend those meetings, open houses or I'm kind of combing through, you know, what the consultants assembled from our surveys, I was just really blown away by this project in in such a good way. Um, I I don't know the last time that I've seen over a thousand survey respondents. Um, and we weren't like giving away an iPad or anything like that. Um, it was and and they're attached to a zip code, too. So, so the almost all those, you know, line share for sure came from the city, from folks who are living in the city. And um and I know too from attending that first open house uh what

were we 60 or 70 people in that room and it and um the the sense I got was there was a large contingent of that that was from neighborhoods nearby who were very concerned about you know was traffic um not not just to the north the neighborhood north of there but also going west um is that Cherry uh there was concerns about cha traffic and how it would interact with those neighborhoods, too. So, um, so a lot of folks were engaged. I do feel like, um, their sentiment really helped shape the more balanced, um, concept plan, land use plan that you see, uh, here tonight. So, um, and maybe the last thing since I I've got the microphone, um, I wanted to to to underscore um just how important, how critical uh the realignment of the creek is. really is the key to unlocking everything that happens here. Um it's it's an investment with tremendous um positive impacts for this community. Um and it just it's like rarely do cities, you know, have uh in their toolbox something that is a a multiplier like this. um whether you're talking about, you know, um a natural amenity for folks to to to walk and bike or or uh a path to get from, you know, one part of town to the other um to or you're talking about um really creating a sense of place for the the new development and businesses that will be siding themselves um near that that creek because it's there. Um so it's just just really really important investment and and and I think back to one of our first meetings. Um you know Jim talks about the journey at the beginning of the journey. I remember looking at um one of

the maps many maps that we were looking at and it was a map of the the flooding that occurs there and I I normally expect like a blue blue blob on a screen uh where the flooding occurs and I said where where's the flooding on this site? and they said, "No, no, the whole parcel is the whole parcel's, you know, has flooding issues. The whole parcel's in the flood map." And so, it's just really, really important. and and um and and the concept plan I really think does a really good job at laying kind of the the steps that need to occur um right you know right on the heels of of of that realignment to ensure that the development and the community this part of your community grows in a way that aligns with community sentiment and the community's vision. So and that's all. So thanks for letting me chat Rivet. Thanks, Michael. Thank you. Thank you. And I'll just tack on to that that if you look at the project timeline that's part of our staff report, uh should uh the planning commission this evening uh decide to recommend to the city council uh acceptance of this concept plan uh they're prepared according to this timeline to meet next week. So this is on the city council's agenda. Should we So that means that there is a city council commitment to move this thing forward and then once they uh uh approve the concept plan then it can move on to DLCD and get started through that pipe. So I think that there is some some urgency uh built into the the timeline. Okay. How long is that pipeline? I I didn't really get an answer to how long does DLCD have to look at it and is that their final say or do they have to review each of the the legislative

things that the city does to change the the zoning and the comp plan and all those other things. Do we know that at all? Because I guess I'm ignorant on that part. Yeah. So, sorry if I was buried in in all that everything I said. um when when the plan amendment is is ready um in the sense that you have um when you have something for DLCD to review um and that's that's usually whatever the ordinance is if it's um you know strike through insert um findings you know what what do you what where you know if it was an adopted plan uppercase a adopted plan or amendment to your TS P or amendment to the comp plan, you would submit that. They would review it. They have 35 days um that they ask for. They provide comments um if if they're substantive comments that they expect those those revisions. Um and then that is the draft, the adoption draft u that you would see. Um and then that would go to assuming there's no changes, substantive changes at that point, it would go on to city council. But you know if if there are substantive changes then then you need to route that back through DLC but 35 days is their review period that they ask for uh to give them enough time to go through you know so they're not going to concept plan they're going to look at ordinances that we propose to basically implement this. Is that correct? That that is correct as I understand it. Um, I'm trying to think who else. We got Kaden, Jim, and Marcy in the room there, too. Anything that I might be missing. That's all I wanted to know. Thank you. Okay. Commissioners, is there any other

questions that we have for the consulting team before Mary, you talk about I'm just wondering, we just had these uh votes that you know, city declined to approve a a police station and something else fair. Fairground. Yeah. And so is there going to be those kind of things that that are going to occur for the community that they're going to have to vote to, you know, support this in the sense of financial taxes and such or I'm just You know, it just makes me think that that might not go so well with what we this renewal area, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, there's a funding mechanism to help. It's it's I'd say it's very unlikely that this one of the funding options for this implementation would be to go to the phone. So, I don't think that's very commissioners. So, if you're looking for a motion, I'm going to make a motion. Okay. Recommend city council adopt by resolution the mill site area redevelopment plan as a concept plan. Second. Okay, we've got a motion and a second. Uh, let's do a roll call vote, please. Commissioner Newell, Commissioner Spaford, Commissioner Schulty, Commissioner Banford, Commissioner Grow. Yes. Commissioner Swanson. Yes. Okay. So, we have unanimously uh made a decision to recommend to the city council who will hear probably a very

similar presentation next week. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Good job. This is incredible. Great, good presentation. It was a well-run process having been a participant in it. I did not attend the community uh uh input meetings. But yeah, it was been it's been a real positive. I mean, right now that's a big donut hole in our community that we all kind of ignore and drive around. But I think this is going to be a big step in the right direction to opening up that into Dallas. So, thank you very much. Thank you. It's pleasure. Okay. Thank you. Okay, moving on. In other business, uh, Commissioner John Schulty has prepared a presentation for the planning commission to talk about, uh, formation of subcommittee work groups to better educate ourselves on the planning process and to discover new ways for the Dallas Planning Commission to be more proactive in in our work. other than just responding to land use applications. Did I say that? Okay, John. Very well. So, I have seen this presentation. John and I got together. Uh it's been a while now. It was before the the the last meeting which I wasn't at. So, I'm going to hand it off to him. We're going to have a discussion. We're not here to make any decisions at this time, but it's it's for consideration and discussion. And I want to commend in advance Commissioner Schulty's efforts to make improvements and recommend new ideas in the way we we do our business. So, thank you very much, John. You go right ahead. Thank you. Uh the night is getting long. I'll keep it crisp, but it it is important. Uh so, we're here to

talk about, as you've just said, the potential to create two committees. That word is in quotes. Hold that thought. We'll come back to that in a bit. and also to talk about, as you said, a path forward uh post Senate Bill 1537. But first, who recognizes that location? Look like a golfer. Cross Creek. Yes. Yep. I've lost a ball or two in there. Yeah. So, that's Route 22 right there. Salem's back Salem is back there and Perry Hill Road's there somewhere. It's one of the jewels of this community and it's just a just a wonderful place. Uh I'm a Mac guy. Arrows. There we go. Okay. What we're here to talk about tonight is just so simple. It really is just an effort to ask if we can provide higher value service to city leadership and the city at large. It's just that simple. And it's just a couple of ideas to help us in that direction. John, we're doing this tonight because of your leadership. and I thank you for making this possible. So we are going to talk about two committees here and I want to make the point up front that anything we ever would do would be compliant with DLCD who was really would be a partner in this. So there's not like renegade anything here. This would always be with DLCD. You've already heard about these two workg groups or committees. Uh there's some question as to what they should be called. it. I think we're open to whatever that answer should be. So that are they ad hoc committees, standing committees, work groups, whatever what I'm going to call them committees for tonight that may change. We talked small C commal to me the housekeeping one is commissioner training doing a better job of training us particularly new people

coming on board. I have just one slide coming up. I'll keep that one one really brief. To me that's a housekeeping thing. The policy one though is thinking about creating a best practices committee. In a couple slides, we're going to go into some detail on that. But from 25,000 ft real quick, what we're talking about is just opening the blinds in this room and looking around us. It's that simple. Like what are other commission commissions doing? and then post Senate Bill 1537 to really reimagine this commission going forward where we're inspired by those best practices that we're going out and seeking and we're in partnership with uh city leadership which would have to be step by step anything we would do would be in partnership with city leadership and the idea is to seek out opportunity as I said before simply to provide higher value service and you'll see in a couple minutes There are many many ways I believe in which we could do that. And the idea is to take this commission to a different level than we've been at before. Just real quick, I'm not I don't come from uh the the I come from the corporate world, okay? I don't speak government speak. Real quick on 1537, if somebody stopped me in the street and said, "What is that and what does it have to do with us being here tonight?" What I would say is it is legislation that's intended to expedite housing development and affordability. It streamlines land use processes and policies, gives greater authority to our planning department staff by expanding the scope of limited land use decisions and reshapes the landscape for local planning commissions like us. The downside, if

you will, it reduces our workload, but the positive side, it creates an opportunity for us to bring more value to city leadership. And that's really why we're having we've been through some of this before, and part of the reason to do it again is we have this new opportunity. Okay. So, real quick in terms of of training, when I was about six or seven months on this commission in a public hearing, somebody mentioned a comprehensive plan. And I said, "What is that?" So, what is wrong with the picture that a commissioner 7 months in didn't know what the comprehensive plan was? I didn't know what a transportation plan was for two years. And my point is, we just need to fix that. And there's a very simple way of doing it. The simple way of doing it in my view is we need a Dallas Oregon planning commissioner handbook as most other commissions like us have which is the tool for training. That's how other commissioners do their training. So that's the simple solution to it. Um the and the other thing just an idea as we get ready to close our meetings DLCD has a wonderful little program of what they call five minute factoids or 30 second factoids. It's just did you know little comments about how the planning uh commission process works at the end of every meeting. Just just kind of a fun thing. So what we need to do is to hold that thought about this uh training committee for a bit. It would have three or four volunteers. The deliverable would be what I just said, which is a draft of a planning commissioner's handbook, but it can only be done after we address the second part of tonight's agenda, which is do we want to change this the way this commission works. Obviously, if that's going to happen, the handbook has to represent

that. So, what I'm saying is that this is going to be on hold. But let's just take a minute and discuss if the concept of doing a better training is something that should be addressed when we can. So just open that up for discussion for a moment. Does anybody would say we shouldn't do a better job of training training educating ourselves on land use planning processes. You know we particularly new commissioners particularly new commission. So we have some background. Yeah. Works. When you when you said that that you didn't know what the comp plan and the transportation system plan was for all that time, that was like a boom. It's like, you know, I've been working with this for, you know, 20 plus years. And so it's it's second nature. I couldn't. So all those discussions we had, I never if if you'd said that, I'd have been way ahead of things because I just didn't even have the concept that somebody didn't know what those things were. So I think your idea of making sure everybody starts on the same page, at least for a rough knowledge of at least what the elements are, whether they understand them or not, um, you know, just this is what it is and this is what it's supposed to be doing. That just makes perfect sense. Now, I don't know if it happens now, but I remember when I started, I got this big binder that had the comp plan, had the code language, like I mean, it was a huge amount of information. So, I know that staff was providing that. Maybe now it's like easier means electronically to provide those things, you know, piece it together for a computer or an iPad rather than print like one of these kind of things. announced it. Just real quickly, we'll move on. An apology to all of you. I

have gotten hot under the collar here a number of times saying, "Why are we screwing around with all this minutia? Where's the policy? What's happening to the city? Who's in charge?" It the ignorance that that existed. I didn't know it was there. So, we're just talking past each other. But the solution is simple. And I think what we're agreeing is let's shove it. And when we get through the second part, we'll readress it. And it should be easy to solve that problem to the second part of this. I want to move along here. So I want to make an important note. Everything that follows here has nothing to do with the conduct of public hearings which is regulated and obviously we're going to comply with that. This has to do with everything we don't do but could. There are some specific recommendations in this. The first is to create a planning commission best practices committee or whatever we call it. You've heard some of this before. Okay. That is responsible for regularly reaching out to other planning commissions in similarsized Oregon cities and DLCD to keep our commission state of theart state-of-the-art. So look out and see what other people are doing. And the first action in that that I would suggest if we say yes, this is something we want to do is to invite Melissa Arenss, who I assume I assume most of you know. She's our official representative at DLCD. Uh talk about a sharp tack. It's a very very impressive individual. but to invite her here for a special planning commission meeting. They can call it audit or workshop or whatever in which we simply examine this is what this commission looks like today and have some conversation with her about what other commission to to start the conversation. What do other commissions look like and then to actually reach after that to actually reach out to

other commissions. This is in green. This point down here is important. It says ultimately, this comes from Melissa who said this. I didn't know this that ultimately other than public hearings, it's up to local city leadership to decide what they want from their planning commission. I didn't know that when in a minute we're going to look at how very different other commissions look than we do. And the reason is local leadership wants them to look like that. So, what I'm saying is we acknowledge that it's up to local leadership to decide what they want from this commission, but it's our job to be proactive and offer suggestions. And I think we can do one heck of a lot better than than we're doing now. I'll show you some examples in a moment here. Okay. So, if we were to start this, if we were to look out this window and get in contact with some other commissions, what would we likely see in here? Well, here's one example, a real world example. And all I did, you do it when you go home, is you can Google Carlton, Oregon Planning Commissioners Handbook. So, by the way, if we have to write one, there's one, right? Just change the name to Dallas and and much of our work would be done. But I'm going to show you some of the things that are in there that are very different than what we do. I would make the point that that model may or may not be right for Dallas. I can't answer that. It's just time for us to reach out and present local leadership with some options of how we how we things we could do that were not. So if we go to look in that Carlton, Oregon planning commissioners handbook, I want to make the note this was before 1537. It could have changed. I don't think it has. The first thing you'll note if you Google this is they in fact have their own very current handbook. As I said

before, it looks very different than how we operate here. We had a conversation a year ago about the state of Oregon planning commissioners handbook and we decided we don't want to do that. We do code. If you look at this one, the the uh Carlton one, it looks very similar to the state one. The state one was obviously used as a model. I'll show you in a minute some specifics of that. So my point is I think we need our own planning commissioners handbook partly for training and partly that we're on the same wavelength with local leadership of what are the boundaries that we should be having here. But I want to make the point we're going to look at Carlton. There are many other similar examples from other cities and the point is there are lots of best practices out there for us to eval evaluate. So this would not be a casual exercise. So some specifics from Carlton. Carlton places a major emphasis pardon me on networking with other commissions. So the idea that we do that is not an original idea. I stole it. Okay. It seems like a great idea and something that we should be doing. They say they require of themselves lots of proactive community outreach to understand citizen land use related concerns and they do that through surveys, events, consultants, and then to be the bullhorn of those concerns to the city council. It's a profoundly different posture than this largely administrative commission. And again, it's up to local leadership whether they want this or not. They say in there, they go on at some length about this. Don't nitpick code. Trust your professional planners. In my view, we nitpick the code that every eye is

dotted and every tea is crossed. And I don't say that as a negative. There's nothing wrong with precision. What's bothered me is what we don't do is address ourselves on the policy side of it at the expense of being on the policy side. We should do both is my point. They say they you can read it yourself when you go home. There's a schedule of regularly challenging the comprehensive plan and discret description of how they do it. They say to themselves, "We own the comprehensive plan. It's our job to keep it current and relevant. It's not in a closet somewhere. It's not somebody else's responsibility. It's a planning commission responsibility. They say, "Be the jealous guardian of our green spaces and farms. Own an inventory of green spaces and hold regular commission workshops." Those are just some examples. There are many more in there of how different we look than that specific commission. So, the questions I'm getting close to the end of this. The questions are post Senate Bill 1537. Should this planning commission change from in my point of view an isolated largely administrative extension of the planning department to me I've always said that's what we are to the city council's in-house land use policy consulting arm which is what many other cities have in in a commission like this. If we want to do this, if if our local leadership wants this of us, we could be inspired by best practices and become proactive and strategic, always complying with DLCD and local leadership. My point is there's nothing in Senate Bill 1537 or DLCD that says don't do that. It's up to local leadership. And so I'm going to draw this to a close. Let's just take a real quick look. If we

were to put a group like this together and we were to start looking at commissions around us and picking up ideas and saying we're going to deliver this to city leadership for them to decide what would that look like? What would the deliverable look like? It would look like what I'm going to show you here in a minute. I'm going to show you a first conceptual draft. Super rough discussion purposes only. It's possible some funding. We we don't have a budget. If we if consultants are involved in surveys, there could you know potentially that could be an issue. We're going to we would hand the city a checklist and say tick the boxes of this list. Tell us what you want us to do and not do and then we're asking how can we support you. So this is what a list like that could look like. is a super rough draft and the context is the planning commission doesn't make policy but our job is to help enable it. That's the concept for this. So we would give them a checklist that looks something like this. Everything on this list on the next page comes from some other planning commission. So I didn't make this stuff up. This is the kind of list we would come up with. Somebody said, "Be the city leadership's eyes and ears in all things land use and bring issues to the policy table." Do you want us to do that or don't you tick the box or no? Stakeholder engagement. We talked about surveys of community members, businesses, local organizations. What do they want their city to look like in 25 years? There's discussion of what is our brand? What should should the city have a brand? Um what do we want Dallas to be known for? and identified do we want this to become a destination those are the kinds of conversations that happen in stakeholder engagement do you want us to do that or not conduct an annual land

use related SWAT analysis I don't know if are you folks familiar from the corporate strengths weaknesses opportunities and threats okay strengths weaknesses opportunities and threats right right there SWAT analysis and a SWAT the the corporate world that I come from I've many places run many different organizations I always start with a SWAT analysis becomes because from that is where strategy comes so it's a very high level look at where we stand in the world and do you want there are some commissions that do that do you want us to do that or not long-term visioning there are some commissions that do that uh annual annual review of the comprehensive plan we talked about do you want us to do that or not There are some commissions, I just put this in here because I'm not making it up, that are really involved in studies and research of things like transportation plans, housing needs, capacity of public services, really data approach to policy recommendations, stuff that is out there from my point of view, but there are commissions that do these things. So, where do you want the boundaries? I think this is the last page here and then we'll we'll wind this up. But just some more few more examples of of other commissions that are involved in the long-term impacts of development proposals at in in depth. Uh continuous learning. We've already talked about that. Maintaining an inventory of farms and green spaces. Some commissions meet twice a month. One is for the normal business. The other is for this kind of discussion. Collaboration is something we don't do with other city departments. Other commissions do a lot of that partnership with them. Uh many commissions like ours have mission statements. Would you want us to do that? And I'm going to draw this to a close here. I won't bother you with a mission statement.

If we said we wanted to do this, what would be the next steps? And John, I need your your guidance in a minute, but uh I guess what we would have is a working meeting to resolve the particulars of what this committee would be called, how it will operate, who would be on it, and what the deliverable to the city would be, and then the city manager or a design would be welcome to re. We don't want to do this in a vacuum. So, we're going to have a working session that's not these few minutes here that said, how are we going to structure this? who's going to be on it, what's our timeline, and then somehow or other get the city manager involved. This is what we're about to do. Do you agree or don't you? Before we pre present anything to anyone, I would suggest we present our plan, our go forward plan to DLCD to make sure we're not off the rails from from that point of view. And then those our action plan is here is what we have we would like to go do would be presented to an audience of the city manager's choosing. So it's up to them to first bless this is what we're about to do and then to bless then to decide from what we bring back what they do and do not want us to incorporate and that's it. So I would let's have a a quick discussion on this. First of all, I would like to get this slide deck or the points sent to each of us so that we have that and we can look at it on our own and and basically create some memory of of what John presented to us in my mind. And you can disagree with me or change my I I

think that that creating a new a new Dallas planning commission handbook is a no-brainer. I think it's essential and I think that is the starting point and from that we can create the capacity then that would enable us to go into the next steps that you propose. So I think that if we made that creating a putting together a a a subcommittee or a work group or whatever we want to call it and we would consult with the city manager and make sure that we're doing this all correctly. But I think I think that that would be the critical first step and then from there we will have a better foundation with which to propose uh higher level involvement in local governance. I appreciate everything that you're saying. It's a big bite uh and it's going to take some work. We're talking about time commitments. Uh, so I don't think we're going to make any decisions tonight, but I would like to advocate for at least making a decision to explore the handbook and then using that as a foundation, moving on to other things. What does anybody else think? I think that's good. I also have to wonder, is it something like that should be presented in sense to the city council as you know, I mean, who who is it that needs to make a decision. Is it just the city manager? I mean, to move forward with some things or I I think that John left it kind of uh well, deliberately vague when he was city leadership is the city manager, senior staff under the guidance of the uh of the city council. So, obviously, we wouldn't do anything without at least

talking to Brian uh on that issue. And that's why I think it's another good place to start. So we're not trying to again until we've got the capacity to do bigger, better, more uh involved things. We need the foundation that would be provided from developing that handbook. Develop just developing the handbook is going to be an education for us and then we've got a product in our back pocket. So I think that should be the highest priority and then let the other stuff emerge from that. The only thing I would say about that, John, is is a practical matter. What what that handbook captures is what currently exists as opposed to what it is we're thinking we might become. I don't have a quarrel with that. I'm just saying and I I don't think there's a tremendous amount of effort in doing in doing that handbook. There really isn't because there are so many examples through DLCD. we just go through and say redline them, you know. So, so my my idea would be the next thing we need is like another half hour, 45 minute session to plan the next step forward in some detail. And if that's it, that's that's fine with me. And u like who would be on it for how long, what resources? Yeah. The mechanics of it. Yeah. willingness to do that. I mean, there's a lot of unanswered questions here, but I applaud the forward thinking and I think that delivering up uh a new, better, improved uh commissioner's handbook would be a demonstration to city leadership that we have the desire and the ability and see

recognize the need of the planning commission to be more engaged in the bigger process of local governance. So it is lowhanging fruit. It is something that we could probably do uh relatively easily. But I think delivering something like that up and asking for a blessing on that first is going to create an opportunity to say now that we have this here are here are some more ideas that we would like to pursue. So, it'd be a good foot in the door because yeah, I I I think that we, you know, Andy said it, I I'm a professional planner myself, so it's it's easy for me to forget that our customers, which can include ourselves, don't have all the technical knowledge as to how all of this stuff works. So, I think we make the new handbook a high priority. and then use that as a springboard to explore the rest of the concept. I think to summarize the whole genesis of this problem is not everybody having the same basis of information, you know, led to your getting hot under the collar as you call it and motivated to do what he's doing and motivated to do all this. And it took us what a year and a half or two or more. I don't know how long it's been difficult. But as John says, if we can get the the handbook that gives everybody the same base information, I think that's essential and then we can go from there. So that makes sense to me. Anybody else? What does staff think? Uh so while we were speaking here on the

question of like who who decides um I did pull up the uh city code regarding uh the planning commission's duties um which are enumerated as being the commission has all the powers that are now or hereafter granted to it by ordinance of the city or by laws of the state. The commission shall control the subdivision of land um which has been superseded by the state law but there you go and may make recommendations to the council to public officials and to individuals regarding land use location of throughfares public buildings parks and other public facilities and regarding any other matter relating to planning and development of the city and surrounding area. The commission may make studies, hold hearings, and prepare reports and recommendation on its own initiative or at the request of the council. So, city code specifically gives the planning commission the ability to do things on its own initiative. So, while running this past Brian probably isn't a bad idea, um I wouldn't see this as requiring his approval or the city council's approval. um if they didn't want you to be able to do that, they would specify that by code. So, back to that. Yeah. But I also think do studies and everything if if we are proposing taking a more proactive role in policy and local governance that uh it's essential. It's like if we want to be better partners to city leadership and city council and the city manager, I think we need to bring them on board uh and let them know what our intentions are. And again, that's why I think creating reinventing a new training tool and the handbook is an excellent springboard to that effect. So, and I

would think if the planning commissioner's handbook is an official document of the city, it's going to have to be approved by the city council. Is that correct? I think that we would pass it up for a passing, but I I I don't know. That's going to be a question that I'm not able to answer. I think we'd have to ask the attorneys on that one. Yeah. The the other thing is somehow we need to make sure that the city council is aware that we're moving these kinds of directions because as I'm hearing it or feeling it just right now, it feels like we're kind of offering to give them advice that they haven't asked for. Um, and we have to be and that's really dangerous because you can shoot yourself in the foot unless you've got their buy in as you start the process. And so one of the things I was thinking of is we could talk to or make sure David Shine looks at this presentation because he was the chair of the planning commission for a number of years and on it for a number of years and he could know the feeling of the city council and and be our interface and our ambassador. I think that would be an excellent first step and I think you'd be very receptive. I would be willing to volunteer my time to help with the handbook as far as putting it together. I mean, that's what I do. That's what I take. Thank you. Thank you. And I also I Go ahead, Rich. Well, I just kind of offer a comment. I know in past lives I worked with larger planning departments where they had maybe four or five planners long-term short-term and they were doing all this

stuff that always went to the planning commission. Obviously we have one planner here in Dallas. Um you know and I know the city is working on the TSP and updating that right now. um some of the other infrastructure um plan master plans that are out there that just I think staffwise at least from my outside looking in there's just not enough staff to to be pumping all this stuff out where in a previous life there was a lot of staff and there was the planning commission met for at least two hours every time they met. Um, so and sometimes longer. So, um, you know, I think that's I mean a lot of the stuff that was on your list of things that we should be looking at I think is in our purview, but there's nothing that's been presented. To your point, it it's all about good communication. These are realworld considerations. We ought to be treating our our uh city council as a customer and saying, "Hey, we have this opportunity with SB537 that we think we can provide greater service at this presentation." Basically, here's what we're thinking about doing. What's the receptivity? Do do you not interested? Do you not care? Do we not have the resources? And together decide how we can be of greater value. and things like if you want these services and surveys and so on, there's no money and there's no people. Well, say it now because as you just said, we have the authority. Well, we don't have the money. Okay. But in many cases, you don't need it. We've had so many uh public meetings here, right, without paying consultants and so on. So, uh, I I guess I don't hear anybody saying we shouldn't consider this more. But the the next step would be instead of a general

introduction, a more specific discussion if we want to pick the um the manual and go with that, figure out who, what, where, why, and then and and communicate every step of the way that what we're doing. I've done a lot of work over the years uh staffing and advising community groups, committees, main street organizations, uh historic preservation, economic development and I think it's about capacity building and I think that in order to make the jump into having a higher value uh role in local governance and guidance uh we need to build our capacity and I think that developing that that handbook is an excellent way to do that. It will build our capacity and also demonstrate our capacity to take on more above and beyond that. So that's the way I see it. When John showed this to me, uh the presentation was excellent. It's better than the first time you showed it to me and I I thought it went really great and uh but that's the way you know my planner brain says okay do things in the right order the training and and you're you're you commissioner are our example of someone that perhaps wasn't brought on wasn't onboarded as thoroughly and correctly as you should have been. That's something that we need to address. Uh take people who don't have the background. No, but you know, we want varying viewpoints. Yes. And the diversity of of knowledge. I mean, you got a lot of knowledge. It's just not specific to, you know, local land use regulation. And if we didn't have you, we wouldn't be here like this. That's right. So, but I I really say, and I I've said it like three times now, so

I'll just say it one more time. I think that developing the handbook is going to build our capacity, improve us, and then will also demonstrate our ability to take on more. And if if we flipped it around, I think that we would we would be doing ourselves a disservice because I think that we need to demonstrate to city leadership that we do have the capacity to do bigger, better, more uh service for our customers, which are the whole community. So, and we'll also find out if they really want us to do more. Sure. So I I propose this uh I say that please make this an agenda item for other business just for discussion at our next meeting and before our next meeting I will reach out to uh the city manager Brian Lada and let him know that we're moving in this direction specifically first with the handbook idea and then from there springing on to making some uh other recommendations or presenting some other ideas to city council. Uh I thought it was a big deal and I was very happy when we had the joint planning commission city council meeting that we were all in the same room at the same time and it was very for a very specific purpose. I would like to propose through this reboot process for lack of a better term that we make that an annual thing. There should be uh more interaction between us and the city council. They're the elected officials. We get that. Uh they appoint us to conduct this business. I think that uh a more interactive proactive relationship between the two groups is uh they

haven't asked us for that. We're ask we're offering that to them. And again, starting with a a a reboot of a training handbook or a manual for us would be a good way to demonstrate that we're serious and we do have the capacity to take on more work. So, all righty. How does that sound? Awesome. Thank you, Ch. Awesome. Love it. Okay. Are there any other commissioner comments this evening before we adjourn? Good job. It's good to have a meeting without It's good to have a meeting without public hearings where we're handcuffed into that process and that's all we have time. We had a policy meeting. So there you go. We had a policy meeting today. Okay. Uh are there any staff comments before we adjourn? No. Charlie, anything? Okay. So with that, uh it's 7:38. Uh I'm going to adjourn this meeting of the Dallas Planning Commission. Thank you very much. We'll see you next month. Do you want to talk to David Chine this Brian first?