City Council - workshop

All right, I have 7.01. I'm going to go ahead and call this meeting to order. Will the recorder please call the roll?

Councillor Irvin?

Here.

Councillor Hink? Here. Councillor Lammerman? Here. Councillor Settlemyer?

Here.

Councillor Wilson? Here. Mayor Sillsby?

Here.

All right.

Item two, citywide cleanup discussion. This...

Well, good evening, your honor, members of the city council. I hope everybody had a great Bohemia Mining Days. I know Councilmember Irvin and I had fun judging the floats and watching all of the folks go walking by, especially the cheerleaders, the horses, and I especially enjoyed the togas. It was a great event. And this is my favorite part of the year here in Cottage Groves. We have Rock, Roll, and Rumble coming up. We've got the symphony. We've got our friends from Botswana coming to visit us. This is really the best time of the year. What I'd like to do this evening is two things. First of all, I'm going to talk about the citywide cleanup discussion. And wait till we get the PowerPoint up on the TV here. What I wanted to do was really look at a couple of different goals for this evening. First, we really want to initiate a program of regular citywide cleanups and create events that encourage participation. But probably most importantly, we want to build community pride. I think this is a great opportunity for us to bring everybody together. So what I'm going to do this evening is I'm just going to give you a couple of ideas to get the conversation started. The important thing is to hear from you council members, hear what your ideas are. And so I've kind of got three general different ideas for cleaning up the city. And I also want to hear what you have to say as well. First off, just having a drop-off event. And I've given you examples kind of in the packet behind the PowerPoint of what a couple of other cities have done. I gave you an example from the city of Crestwell and also from the city of Harrisburg. And just note that also Springfield does a really good cleanup. The reason I wanted to actually give you these flyers, let's take a look at them, is because you'll be able to see that different cities list different items that they clean up. and that they're willing to accept at a cleanup event and set it up in the high school parking lot or something like that. Usually it's based on who their garbage haulers are. So just kind of drive home the point that it's very important that we work with our local garbage haulers. The second kind of event that I've seen other cities do is having just a one day cleanup event. And the example I've given you again is a flyer from the city of Junction City. Now, what they do every year is they clean up Ivy Street. We all know that the main drag of Junction City is Ivy Street. And every year, a couple of weeks before the Scandinavian Festival, they let the whole community for about half a day come in and just really clean up the street, have the local businesses also along the street kind of clean up their areas. But it's really a source of community pride. And kind of the third example that I gave you is from the city of Washougal, Washington. And I really like this one. They do a community-wide cleanup that really is a year-long volunteer initiative. Now, they want to reduce litter and beautify the spaces within the city. and so what they do is let people that are volunteers either a group or whether it's a individual and you know pick up garbage and it's on the honor system that you turn in how much that you pick up and you can either pick a location within the community you want to accent or just walk through town and you know the aim is to get everybody to spend 40 hours a year uh cleaning up garbage And just to sweeten the pot a little bit, you know, they give away little mini trash cans. They also give away T-shirts and hats and other things to really encourage people to participate. And I think we could get a lot of volunteers in Cottage Grove to do something along those lines. But like I said, I want to hear your ideas, guys. So, you know, really, this is your meeting, and I'm going to stop talking and listen to what you have to say.

Anyone? Councilor Rubin.

Thank you. Well, I just want to recognize that this is kind of a historic moment. We're actually meeting, we're talking about this, we're planning it, and I'm excited about that. Some of the impetus behind, you know, at least for me, is hearing community comments of, The eyesore properties in town, the ones that there's just accumulations, brush overgrown kind of things. And so when I think of that, some people love that. I have an uncle who is like that. You're not going to clean his property up. Those are too many treasures. But the opportunity to have neighborhood, you know, involvement with each other kind of presents itself in this where, you know, we could go and say, hey, in a week or two weeks or whenever this is going to be, you know, the city's going to come by and pick XYZ up or we're going to line up the ability to, you know, take a scrap load. Can we help you with that? Can we help cut this stuff down in preparation? And that, Hey, this, if you miss this one, you know, you're out on something, there's going to be another opportunity to come up. We'll catch you on the next one, but I really driving community, you know, pride of place taking care of our places and kind of serve, serve our neighbors are the two big things that I'm hoping to achieve out of this. So that could be done a ton of different ways, but regular occurrence is, and plenty of heads up and expectation and taking the things that they are the eyesores, like making accommodation that we could take an old boat, we could take an old boat, we could, you know, disassemble or have a mechanism to really take some of those big things that people can't afford to do, figure out a solution to that.

Councilor Hayek.

To piggyback on that, and I think we've talked about this before, the city of Fresno where my dad lives, every year they go around neighborhood by neighborhood and people put what they want. There's parameters. They put it on the edge of their property and the city comes around and picks it up. I know that's a big aspect kind of tying into what you're saying. Maybe there's volunteers that can pick up um rubbish and there's yard clippings and some people pull out i think it's in july they pull out their christmas trees they've had in their backyard and there's there's always houses one house in this neighborhood every year i don't know what they're doing but they have a giant pile out front and also people will go around and if there's furniture They'll take the furniture. They know what neighborhoods are being done. So people in need will actually go around and get a table that they needed. But it really works to keep the neighborhoods clean. And I'm starting to see some people that might benefit from that, especially on my way home. There's a few homes that I feel like if they had that opportunity, they might be inclined to do a little cleanup.

Councilor Wilson.

I also see this as an opportunity for neighbors to get to meet their neighbors. If we put out a fire a week or two ahead of time that your neighborhood is doing a big neighborhood cleanup, help your neighbors. If you don't have a need at your own property, look around. Meet your neighbors. Help them out. Volunteer. Maybe have a day before meeting of the neighborhood and say, what houses need help? It could be an elderly person that can't get out and do stuff in their neighborhood, and their neighbors don't even know them. And so it gives an opportunity for them to meet their neighbors, help them out, develop that connection and helping hand attitude, servant attitude. with each other.

Councillor Sotomayor.

I always like to look for a way where we can do when we talk about ice or parts of town, maybe picking one of our public places. Also, we've we've heard of potential with riverbanks and that being one. And then, but I really, really liked the idea of a giveaway day that I've heard and a neighborhood cleanup and the idea of, you know, somehow how can that work in our community? I was thinking, what if one weekend was the giveaway time? And then, you know, if you can't give it away, maybe that means it bleeds into the next week, which is the next weekend is people go around and pick up stuff and deal with it. And can there be one or two nights in between where people go and help? during that chunk of time to help people get ready for the come and get rid of your stuff time. And people talked about not making it necessarily all at once. I would hate to have someone trying to get rid of stuff and people saying, oh yeah, I mean, I'd like those to be separate sometimes.

I think we're all on the same page. We're wanting to create a recurring thing. Maybe we do start out more simple, you know, more information. It's hard to get information out and have it be the same, but that we build on it. I like the idea. I think Linda had brought it up or that there's like neighborhood or zone representatives or ones that are kind of in charge of getting the message out within their own area and coordinating and kind of being that go-to person. That seemed like it would be really helpful. Um, it would be helpful to know if any conversations have been had or if they haven't yet, when, when they have them, where does Lane County, uh, you know, waste management coming into this? Are they going to come in as a, as a, as a support, you know, tailors, what are the other recyclers state and companies, um, um, cottage Grove garbage service. Um, I believe in discussions with, uh, with Weyerhaeuser. They had mentioned that this would be something that they would love to figure out how to help with. I think they had a program where they were giving mulch away in one of the other cities so that after you've beautified or removed stuff, you can also beautify. So looking for partnerships around town might also help us shape this and to see what's possible. But beyond that, You know, I kind of like a hybrid of some of these that we're seeing maybe I like the idea of kind of the adoptive adopt an area for a time. My family's kind of adopted gateway somewhat and you know, you get in the cadence and it's nice. You pick a route and then you know where you can drop the garbage off so you don't have to go to the dump afterwards, but making accommodations. So if people are picking up garbage, it's easy for them to not have to pay to, you know, get rid of it themselves. I think that's part of like, hey, we're partnering with folks that are doing that. So designated sites that, hey, if you're picking garbage up around town, you dump it here and take care of it kind of thing.

Well, I heard a couple things there that kind of piqued my interest. I think before the city starts picking up garbage, I do like the idea of maybe a weekend that is an event that we advertise. Maybe call it Cottage Grove's Great Curbside Giveaway, something like that. where we advertise it and put it out on social media. So people know to drive around to all the neighborhoods this one day and people put anything that they want to give away or maybe a swap, you know, great swap. You know, there's a lot of names you can come up with to make it kind of fun. And this way, at least hopefully they'll be able to give them to people in need before it becomes garbage. And, you know, there's a lot of treasures out there. People don't know. Counselor Sotomayor.

I just have this nightmare. We gotta have an official sign that says giveaway stuff. And I pity the people who have a garage sale that day kind of thing. And so maybe we need to do something like have it the official inventory of where you go to do that. And maybe combining with... people collaborating in a neighborhood, maybe it's all in one person's yard, you know, for a block or something so that.

I think it might be possible that you would have less people in it if unless they could just put it right out on their own curb. And so that's and that is something I've never heard of any city doing. And, you know, just so that there is an understanding that please pick it back up and take it back in your house when if it is not taken and so but i i think that's kind of a unique idea and we could actually advertise it to other cities on their pages now come to cottage grove drive around our town there's going to be free stuff everywhere you know so i mean if you're gonna i would just rather see that than have a whole bunch of stuff city has to pick up themselves And the other thing that I wanted to bring up is if we're going to do this, I really would like to see all of the schools involved in some way. You know, I think that that would be a really good thing for the youth to get involved in as far as volunteering. You know, they could even be running or even selling what they wanted to for their sports teams or whatever. And just being a little more broad, the young.

us counselor wilson yeah the other another option as far as the the giveaway would be to have a city-wide swap meet at a specific location bring your stuff if you have the ability and obviously some people are not going to have the ability if you don't so but if they do that would be an opportunity to to swap stuff

I love involving kids, but kids get together in the dry months, a very finite amount of time. So I think it would be real important if that is a priority that we look, make sure we look at calendars and make it reasonable. If it's beyond September, I mean, It's rolling the dice in Oregon anytime you ask. And usually it's wonderful in October, but I'd hate to see that mess up.

I mean, right about the time that the high grass is around is a good time. when that's coming and that's end of may when it starts i feel like all the times where you're if you knock it down then you avoid a notice and so or knock on the door but this opera because part of the opportunity would be like hey we're gonna we're gonna clean up we're also gonna you know knock down the yards we're gonna get everything ready for for fire season that could be a real assistance um coordination, maybe we'll find a time before all the craziness of graduation and all that, but that's just a thought. Maybe it's just me, but I don't know, but does rain really, would rain really affect this? I don't think it would.

It would. It would affect. You'd have a lot less people. All right. Anyone else? Any other comments on this or what are we wanting to accomplish right now? It's just ideas. Counselor Wilson.

I do like. the idea of the public space as well. And that would be something I think that we could get student involvement a lot more interested in as far as the cleaning up the riverbanks or cleaning up the parks, having some of the student groups compete with each other. Okay. Kids like to compete with each other. So that's a possibility that they could, you know, we can gather more than you can. And have each one pick an area of the city, public area of the city, and have a contest. See who can clean up the most garbage out of a certain area. Because garbage hides. Especially in brush and things like that. So you're going to They're competing. They're going to find it.

I would like to ask the question, is there anything anybody can envision that could be our first little trial? See how we would deliver it. See how it's accepted, where it could happen again. this fall early and invite kids on some level and do something that we hope is accepted as meaningful and we can say we can admit this is our little first step what went good, we could do evaluations and stuff and say, if we could put two dates, one for this fall and one in May and invite then anybody who participates. I like the idea of putting our ideas down and get them to say which of these appeal to you and what else. and try and get it where other people have input in this too. But I really think I'd love to see what is something we could float soon. And it wouldn't be a nightmare.

City Manager?

Well, thank you for the ideas and the input and I appreciate the conversation. Probably the easiest thing for us to do this fall is a drop off event. We can work with the high school or another location in town where we've got a big parking lot with access. As you say, a warehouse or individual groups throughout the community, I think would be interested in doing that. And that's something we can certainly, I'll say mid September, You know, knock on wood that, you know, Oregon weather will accommodate that. But aim for mid-September. I love the idea of the citywide swap meet, whether it's at one location or not. I've got this big, ugly couch, you know, that I would just love. Somebody else would love this thing. I don't. And I'd love to give it to somebody who would want it. So we can aim for doing something like that next spring. And in the meantime, we can aim for doing some, well, we encourage people to pick up garbage and clean stuff up. It seems to work well when I've talked with other cities, kind of like what Junction City is doing when we do it around events. I can tell you in my neighborhood where there's a lot of kids, along with Bohemia Mining Days, the biggest event of the year is Halloween. They always ask me whether or not we're going to do Halloween again this year. And I always ensure them that, you know, the Cottage Grove witches will be there. and it'll be a fun event again. So maybe we try to do some sort of a cleanup, at least in the downtown area and around the downtown area associated with Halloween. If we can kind of pull off those three events, a drop off sometime in September, maybe a little bit later in the fall, we do a cleanup and then we aim to find how we're gonna do the citywide swap meet, give us plenty of lead time to figure out how to logistically to make this work.

um we try to do that next spring uh and if we can hit those three events then you know i think we're well on our way i like all those ideas um and would support that i i just want to encourage you when you market your couch that you don't call it the big ugly couch you want to sell it it's pink

it's shag carpet pink does anyone else have anything i also just to so you can feel like there's consensus at least i'm in full support of this rivers type cleanup the blackberry removal the um and if you were looking at you know low hanging fruit on competitions the bike path um you know through cottage grove uh restaurant row all the way up uh that seems to be the most garbage rich environment um so just a tip if there's any youth groups out there that are trying to win that but

Um, director Stewart, can you, um, cause we, we've heard that there are some setbacks or, um, realities that we should look at with clearing, having the public being on lands cleaning up by the river. Um, do you have any insight into that to tell us like what the negatives would be to that?

Thank you, mayor. Well, we have a ghostbark watershed that's worked hard to rehab riverbanks and riparian zones. They have experienced individuals coming in, essentially cutting down the items that they're granted. They've made piles of vegetation and individuals come by and start them on fire. There's just, there needs to be some coordination and some work together with folks. People have different ways and they need to understand that we have stewardship responsibilities on how we enter and what we do in the riparian zone. We certainly don't want to do something that is detrimental long-term, that there's items on the bank right now that are stabilizing the bank. If we remove those items, then the bank becomes unstable. So there's just, it's not as easy as just like, yeah, turn people loose and go cut blackberries. We just want to make sure that there's people that are participating and leading the effort or seeing the effort and coordinate, you know, hopefully encouraging the positive things that you can get done. and be mindful of some of the detrimental things that we want to see.

That was very helpful. Thank you, Director Stewart. City Manager?

And I would just echo what Faye said. My usual evening walk is up along the river, usually coming up from Harrison and coming across the footbridge and then back through the neighborhoods. And over the six, eight months that I've been doing that walk, I can tell you that the native plants that have been planted along there have started to really blossom. And the native plants are choking out the blackberries and the brambles and other things exactly as folks who planted them would wish they are. So it doesn't happen overnight, but definitely are seeing a big change and improvement with the vegetation along the river.

Councilor Sotomayor.

Yeah, I totally understand and know about the Coast Fork Watershed. They gave me guidance and permission to tackle around Chambers Bridge with the Key Club, I don't know, a year ago. And I have to say, high school... The high school group I worked with was way more excited about it the first time, a little bit less the second time. But Watershed Council is willing to collaborate. They do request that we're very clear and talk to them. And they tried to be there when we were doing it, but they kind of showed me. little steps that we could do. So I know the connection there's been a little bit of change in things. So I, I was hoping to get, you know, like something I could offer tonight specifically, but I was assured that if I contact a particular person, I now know the contacts there. So yeah, I feel very comfortable saying there will be rule. I love a weed eater. I love a lawnmower. I love power tools will probably not have much of a place in anything that we do along the river. Up above way high, that really isn't the riparian zone potentially, but down on the sides and stuff, we're going to be using hand tools, but including some digging and stuff like that, that can have some amazing impact in not too much time. So if that is something I'm all for saying, I would love to see that happen. And the good thing about that is we don't have to worry about fire danger. If we're in there with hand tools, I was thinking September, helping everybody clean their yards. there might be an issue with the big tall grass and all of that, but maybe it's better us doing it and having the water and that kind of thing too, but I don't know.

All right, let's move on. Item three, ballot measure referral process discussion.

Well, good evening again, your honor and members of the council. This is really a follow-up to some of the conversations we had during the budget process. I know council members were talking about different referral measures that could be sent to the voters. And now what I really wanted to do this evening is get everyone to the same level of knowledge and understanding of how a city initiated ballot measures referral process works. And I want to recognize that not everybody was a part of the city council back in 2024 when we had the street bond and the gas tax measures were crafted. So kind of want to make sure everybody understands how this process works. You know, tonight really three things I'd like to cover is what are the types of ballot measure referrals that the city council can initiate? And I'll talk a little bit about the initiative petition process, but that's really not our focus. And then I really want to kind of give you an idea of a timeline of, you know, generally what do you go through if you want to put something on the ballot and get it in front of the voters? So really, there's four types of ballot measure referrals that the city council can initiate and understand that there are endless variations on these themes. I'll give you an idea a little bit later where you can find some information so you can do some additional research on your own if you want to. But really, these are kind of the four general areas that the city council can initiate. A general obligation bond or a serial levy. Now, this is similar to what the city did back in 2024 with the street measure, where we listed three streets that needed to be improved. And we listed that it would be 50 cents per thousand of assessed value for five years to pay for it. So really very straightforward. Here's the project we want to do. Here's how much it's going to cost. Here's how much how we would pay for it. And put that information in front of the voters. Now, kind of a similar measure is what would be a referral to the voters. And this is kind of what the gas tax measure was. It was increasing gas taxes from 3 cents per gallon up to 9 cents per gallon. Now, state law requires that that be voted on by the people. You as a city council do not have the authority to raise gas taxes. Now, a similar measure to that would be what happened with psilocybin being legal within the city. As you'll recall back in 2022, every city in the state had the opportunity to say whether or not they wanted to allow psilocybin to be marketed within the city. The third idea is to be able to form a new taxing district. Now, an example of this is what was done recently with the Rowe River Rural Fire District up in, I'll call it the Greater Dorena Lake area, that they did form a new district. And they worked with Lane County on that to get it on the ballot. and be able to have that to create a new district. This is always a little bit dicey because when you create a new taxing district, the way that we do property taxes in the state of Oregon, it can impact all of the neighboring districts. You can push everybody into compression by creating a new district. So there's a lot of moving parts to any time you want to create a new district. And finally, you can do an advisory measure. This is just asking people for their opinion on a specific issue. There's no tax or legislative impact. It's just a question. For example, you could ask folks if, say, hey, look, the city owns a big piece of property that goes all the way from the rail tracks and the covered bridges bike trail and Trailhead Park all the way over to the post office in a Domino's. Now, it's a space that's really as big as Corner Park. You interested in having the city build that into a park? You can just ask folks that question. Now, obviously, you'd follow it up with, well, how are we going to pay for this? What features are going to be included in it? But it's a way to just kind of gauge from the public, is this something that they're going to be interested in?

So the city council can refer to voters to build a new tax district that's outside of the city?

No. And as I say, there's a lot of moving parts with this. For example, if you were to want to create a tax district that used just making this up as I go along, the school district's boundaries, as opposed to the city's boundaries, you would have to work with school district, fire district, Lane County. You know, there's, you know, I said, if that's something that the council is interested in, understand that, you know, it's something that takes some time to do it. I said I'd talk a little bit about the initiative petition process, just to kind of give you an idea of how it functions. You can request that legislative action be referred to the voters. I think the most recent example is the state legislature's transportation package, which was passed by the state legislature, signed by the governor, and then voted on, or there was an initiative petition to have it voted on. Also, the formation of a new tax district can be done by initiative petition. There's been some discussion recently about creating a parks and rec district. So, again, that's something that could be done by initiative petition, but it would impact all of the other districts. So I also want to just kind of give you an idea of how the process works. And it is a long detailed process for us to be able to put something on the ballot. And folks that were on the council at the time that the two street measures were put on the ballot, We recall that we created a committee of citizens. There was a lot of discussion at the council level before what was agreed upon and also a lot of discussion with the committee before what was ultimately put in front of the voters. So really the first step is to have that city council and public discussion. And city council can direct staff to initiate that process. City attorney plays a big role in crafting language for the city council review. There's resolutions and ordinances, calling for an election, referral to the voters. City council can adopt the resolutions. And of course, the ballot title and everything has to be filed with your elections officer, who is the city recorder. It gets published in the paper. We eventually take it to Lane County elections. So there's a lot of steps involved. It's something that takes time, but it is a way to affect change. And if you'll allow me one brief editorial comment, I have been involved in successful campaigns for general property tax increases and serial levies for things like law enforcement, but it usually takes at least a year or two of education and reaching out to the folks in the community and explaining to them why you're doing what you're doing. And again, the street measure is a perfect example. It was about the time I was joining the city that all of those public meetings were taking place. And I commend Fay and the committee that he was working with. They did an exemplary job. But understand that that's the process that you really need to go through. And with that, I'd be happy to take any questions you might have.

Any questions? Councillor Sotomayor.

I remember one of the questions when we were discussing this is you've described a very involved process that of course takes money just because it's time. but the actual filing with Lane County elections, when we jump through all that hoops, is there a significant cost for a November election or are they different for different election?

You wanna jump in or?

Thank you, Mayor, Councillor Settlemyer. To be on the ballot for the general election, I wouldn't anticipate that there would be any associated costs, but if you were to do a special election, much like the recall that happened, that was outside of the general election time period and couldn't be on that ballot, then there are associated costs. And the way that the county derives those costs is based on labor. So they can give you a ballpark figure about how much it's gonna cost at the beginning, but in no way can they pinpoint it because it's based on how many man hours they actually spend on the actual measure.

If you don't mind, Mary, I'd just like to add, if you're looking at creating a district, And hypothetically, you need to partner with Lane County. There can be a considerable amount of added costs that Lane County will expect to be paid, legal fees, their assessor's office, different things like that, just in preparation to get to the ballot measure. So it just really depends on what vehicle you're choosing to move forward with that could incur additional costs over and above just the election portion of it.

Mayor Mrakas, i'll serve and thank you married, if we were to ask do an advisory ballot measure are we limited within the city limits on that, or can we do a different district could we do a school district wide advisory ballot measure.

Mayor Council urban I actually don't know the answer to that so it takes some take some research to to figure that out, and I certainly can inquire with lane county and state to get that answer, thank you, thank.

I mean, the minimum viable product here for knowledge that we'd want to gain is their support for these different ideas. And it seems like you can elicit that through an advisory ballot measure. So it would be nice to know, you know, that seems like it's probably the lowest lift, maybe lowest costs. And maybe that's what we start with. But I'd love to know how far and wide can you reach?

Councilor Wilson.

Speaking of measures that didn't pass, the fire district measure that was recently on the ballot and didn't pass, I was speaking with a neighbor of mine who voted against it because she didn't know. She didn't get the information that she needed and she regrets her vote. she realized, oh, I just cut the ambulance service. And she was like, if I had known that. So an educational process is vital whenever anything is brought before the voters. If we want support, there needs to be a process of education. And I think the advisory vote is a really good tool for that. So we get a better feel for it of how to educate.

Anyone else? All right. Do you have any final thoughts?

No, I would say the goal was just to kind of bring everybody up to the same level of knowledge and information. And I didn't want to print out 35 pages of this, but there's a real good section in the Oregon Municipal Handbook. I think if you attend some of LOC's trainings, you'll get a copy of this. We can scan this section and send it out to everybody as a PDF and also give you a link to the Municipal Handbook that's, I think, got some great information in it.

Part of my thought process in bringing this up in the first place was that it is hard to educate. That's a perfect example. You do have a lot of people that after the fact, they're like, oh, well, now I know. So my thought was... What if you have almost boilerplate ballot issues that we put on the ballot every time if they don't pass again or near enough? Then it's not like the lift is as hard each time. You know, maybe does it still make sense time and place, but. you pick them up on the next ballot, you know, and eventually everyone gets up to speed on, on what we need. That was the working concept of, can we just have of all these issues that we've gone over, over and over and over again, repairing our roads, you know, a library district, a rec district, and maybe the fire district would want to get in a similar cadence if it makes sense. That's what I was saying. Does that make sense? Is that even a valid thought process or is it not workable in practice?

I do believe that is a good idea for education because like Councilor Wilson said, I've heard that a lot in the community with the fire district. And It would maybe even get a little media coverage if an advisory vote went down and then that also gets that word out. So, Councillor Sotomayor.

Well, and our first thing that we talked about today is, I think, about as important as any other communication. the more people that we get by going to their homes, essentially saying, put things out on the street corner and get that kind of communication going. A town hall, if we can get 200 people there on any topic, if we can tie in these other ideas also, which is legal as long as we, advertise that we'll be talking about that also and you know just every time we go and do one of these reach outs at halloween you know if that's one of our big events at bohemia mining days and get that mantra somehow can we reach people when we're doing positive and they're helping us with positive things as many of those as we can do

Right, thank you. Oh, and I'm sorry.

Go ahead. I'm excited with the same idea with the idea of getting a volunteer core going and giving people niches that make sense to them in any kind of place in our city, we can pull that at. I'm also excited to talk with people about the volunteers. How can the school kids contribute meaningfully in that. Can we afford or ensure kids from 18 up only or 15 or whatever in some meaningful volunteer work? Those kinds of outreaches are the ones that get home. I don't think us Unfortunately, just talking about it here ever catches anything. Well, some, but not what we're looking for.

Okay, well, that is all.

We are adjourned. So sorry, I'll try to educate myself.