Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

as I stated, five. And our first agenda item is a area of variance request, 33 Cedar.

Anybody? I was going to table that at the request.

No, no, no. I made a mistake. It was evergreen. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. I sent an email out about that. It was my mistake. I was looking at it, and hey, Attorney Arthur Melvin will call me, and I just will transpose it.

Okay, so it's 30 reasons, third reasons? Yeah, I remember. Okay, roll that correction then for agenda item. No, we have a 33-seater. Okay, so we have, that's an additional agenda item. No, we'll do it on agenda item. All right. All right. Okay, so we're, 33-seater stays on the agenda item. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. If you have anything to present on it, or if you're trying to read everything you submitted is what you're on. I believe everything I read was. Yeah, I don't have any questions. Yeah, sir. Look, if we have any questions, we'll bring them out with you. Roy has sent us around everything we need to know about that. Yeah, that, the, that's the shed, the bottom, yeah. the garage from the garage. Yeah. And this is, uh, all right. Anybody have any, uh, from the, everything that was sent, uh, questions on that at all? So. It was, it was other pre-existing non-conformities, Roy, is that what, uh? So the first one was a pre-existing non-conformity.

Two and three are not. There's not yet. Okay. Yeah, that's fine. Two and three are actually being caused by installation of the new garage drive there. Okay.

Okay. There's no neighbors here about that at all?

Letters went out, no. Or were they actually needed? Well, all of them. Okay. Okay. No responses or anything? Nope. It's pretty, well, it's pretty well described. It's what we've been doing. Yeah.

Anybody have any questions for applicants at all? Is here available? I mean, I know that's his time. If you don't think there's any other way to make, ways to build it, it's pretty much the only At least he has the money, I think, right? They're both pregnant. They're both pregnant.

So there's no parking there, right? And this is a weird situation because it's a car lot. So it has two front yards. Yeah. So the garage itself is going to be back behind the house.

On the right-hand side, right? Yes. the driveway.

Sorry. No. Not the right-hand side of the house. Okay. You're looking at the front of the house. So it would be on the corner side?

It's going to be on the right-hand side. Okay.

All right. All right. On the Cedar Street side of the house. Not the right-hand street. Oh, right. That's what I was thinking. The gravel drive. The gravel drive has to go. It has to be a condition of your... If you notice, the 285E is not listed as a variance because if it was, you would keep the other drivers. If I had one driver, so the driver off of Randall is going to be filled in and made usefulness. Oh, the driver off of Randall's here will be Randall's half.

It's off of Sears, probably. I don't know. Yeah, so that's going to be built. Okay. It kind of works because this. That's not important.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right.

Yeah. HAB-Masyn Moyer- You just look at it, and all the questions is the owner of this here and no questions there to go.

HAB-Terry Palmos- So gravel drive on. HAB-Terry Palmos- The history will be brought back to grace. HAB-Masyn Moyer- Okay, okay. HAB-Terry Palmos- Do we need to specify. HAB-Terry Palmos- All right. HAB-Terry Palmos- As far as the other ones are concerned, the height of the height and. HAB-Terry Palmos- What. 10 feet, you know, a garage with a peaked roof, 14 feet is not even big, but it's an average garage. It's not going to look out of place with other garages. It's going to meet the, he's going to build it with the setbacks.

And the shed in the back is going to stay, right? Yes. Yeah. And it will be paid.

The new driveway and parking will be there. But a portion of that driveway and parking will be in the front yard by definition. So the only new variances he's seeking that aren't pre-existing are the height of the garage and the front yard parking.

I'm going to entertain a motion. We have no questions. I'm going to entertain a motion to close the public hearing. Motion is made and seconded. All in favor say aye. Aye. I'm going to go through the questions. Number one, whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of a neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be graded by the granting The area variance, you have to be knowing that one. So residential, lots of garages and outgoings. Whether the benefits sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method feasible for the applicant to pursue other than area variance. Now, this is the way to do it. Proper procedure and the applicant has produced all the documents that are required. So I'll explain what was in that one. whether the requested area of variance is substantial. That's what we know on the answer to that question. So I think it's a good size area compared to the green space that's going to be gained as well. It's not something that's all substantial. So whether the proposed area, whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district, Um, I think you know, on that, uh, adverse number five, whether the alleged difficulty was so created, which considerations are relevant to the decision was more than that necessarily preclude the granting of the variance in that DPS or as I'm adding this, uh, sort of in addition. So Andy, I have one through four is known and question five is yes. All that I'm in motion. I'm favor this and I will make the motion from chair. Grant a area variance 33 Cedar Street. Right conditions of The Randall access to the parcel will return to the green space and the Caesar Street access that will serve the structure will be paid. As described in the application package. Randall's turning to green space?

No, Randall's going to be the driver. I would say as per the site plan.

Okay, then the according to the. Stanford teacher teachers in the site plan and the application package. Access to returning to green space and paving as accordingly, so I would. move to approve the area variance as described in the site plan and the package. on 433 Cedar Street. Look for a second. Second. Seconded and made. All in favor, signify by saying aye.

Aye. Aye. Just for clarification, that approved as submitted. Yeah.

Yeah, everything's spelled out in the same place. Aye.

Agenda item number two is 115, 115 Fort Watson and Very various requests.

Good evening. I'm Frank Casullo. I represent Coppola Properties in Colonel City. Essentially, it's Anthony and Jerry Conteno. The property located at 113-115 on Fort Watson Street. Jerry and Anthony bought this property. It was a distressed property in 2024, and they've been working... Well, they've been cleaning it up, and now they want to start to do this development. We've entered into a prepossession agreement and a contract of sale with Portland Reuse. They're being on a prepossession agreement. We know we have to get all the approvals, and if they can't get it, they're going to have to leave. I guess they're doing quite well there. So what we're trying to do, and we've been working with Roy and the city, we're trying to give Portland Reuse... enough land that they need for their project and then leaving the remaining, I think it's close to 10 acres left for development. Because it's a little tight over in that area, Roy wants us to get some variants, a couple variants it looks like. And that is why we're here. And of course, anything that happens here is going to be conditioned upon us getting approval for the subdivision, which will occur, I believe, on July 6, or before the planning board for that application. I'm here to answer any questions. Fairly straightforward. I'm here to answer anything you may have. So, Parcel Roy, that's pretty accurate what I said.

Yeah. We'll... Portland Reuse, are they going to lease the property as is?

No, no, no. Right now, we're on a prepossession agreement. They want to buy it. That's why we're under a purchase contract. They really wanted to get in and get moving. I guess they're doing well.

I thought they moved in Portland.

They are. That's where they are. They're under a prepossession agreement, but we have a contract of purchase and sale. They want to buy the property, but we can't until we get the obvious one to come before you, and then we have to go before the planning board.

Yeah, they're probably using all that money, if I had to say so. Good. Okay. Any other questions anybody has? No, I was reviewing this. The total acreage, what did you say, about 10 acres? I'm thinking... 9.7.

Yeah, I knew it was close to 10. That's right, Gary. That's right.

10 more that Jerry and Anthony are holding back for virtue. They got a little more clean up to do and then future development.

They probably have some jades of property.

They do. They joined that. One of the reasons they bought the property is getting into such disrepair. They figured they better buy the property before it got any worse.

What is, can you, what does Cortland reuse?

My understanding, I had to ask that question myself. My understanding, I could be wrong, but it's like, um, If people have old chairs or things like that or like household items, you can bring it down there and I guess they sell them. They rehab them. They rehab them and sell them.

They do a lot with SUNY students. Yeah, I understand they're doing very well.

Is that a store as well?

Yeah. They also purchase and stuff like that, yeah. And I asked this question for my house.

Another question. other kind of came up. They're not part of the national organization. They're just a local.

I think they're more local.

I could be wrong, but I think they're more local. They do work with it. They often trade back. They're a non-profit, so they're 5-1-C-3.

They were very good to work with.

We didn't need that kind of stuff. Yeah, I remember one thing I read was they had they were talking almost in acres square-footed, so it was a single bed and foam covers for the students. So they're going to use them before others, like farmers, you can use them. There's a lot of different uses. Because otherwise, they just go, hey, get off here. Right. It was the landfill. Every year, the students go to the hall. So that's one of those things. As far as like a shared driveway, I talked with Terry, and I know

We may, well, we may if we need it, but we may not need one because they can get in and out, we can get in and out. But if we need to, Jerry and Anthony will do it if we need to. But right now, it looks like we may not. But obviously, if we have to, we will.

Well, it looks like they definitely need it to enter their property, right?

They do. They enter it from Pendleton Street. There's a small narrow in between the houses. It's not there anywhere else in Fort Lawson. they coming off they can't cut her off anymore it was closed off right forward from uh all right but just to let you know on the property segment they still have that as well this yeah well i'm talking about how to be using it oh yeah right so so yeah as far as yeah i'm right on here there's

Well, this, they can come right, this is where we would park, and this is where we would go. We'll work something out. This is all the way down here.

Yes, the parking's here, so we get to that parking, we don't have to go this way. We can't keep going this way. There's no parking.

Well, we'll figure something out. We'll figure it out. We'll make sure. Obviously, we want to make sure they have something. But right now, it's been working without a shared driveway. They're in there right now. This has been an output, right?

This curve is existing?

Yeah, they got it. So you're going to have to have an easement or something.

Right. So there has to be an easement for that drive, but otherwise they can't get it out.

Well, they're using this right now. Like I said, we'll do something. We just want to make sure we get this. And if we have to do something, we'll do the shared drive.

I think if we were to approve it, we would have that. We would require an easement for that.

of an easement access in addition to what is currently there, but it's certainly a security easement within a year's time frame, three years time frame. I think it's certainly a reasonable way then. Yeah. Absolutely.

Yeah, we've worked something out with them. When Leroy's saying there'll be a shared driveway, we're going to make sure they get it in and out. It's our advantage, too. So we're not going to do anything.

We might condition it on that. That's not a big problem. Just condition it on saying that there's security. And then we'll attend to it.

If needed. Either way, we'll probably do a shared driveway agreement with them if need be.

Yeah, I know there's no way to get over there. It's just a gas station.

Yeah. So that's, you know, even if it was adjacent properties, it's not a question that you can come in now through that side.

Yeah. Whatever we will do, if you want to condition upon us to have some agreement for driveway with them. There was an existing, do you know the existing amount of parking spaces?

I think there was a way. where eight or, I don't know, is eight, how many do they need? 28. 28? There's a variance there. Yeah. So certainly if there's a way to definitely not go below eight and stay at eight or increase, it seems that would be more likely to not have your shared driveway requirement. but I don't know how much you want to develop that route, that plan.

I don't know. I mean, they're kind of pre-existing non-conforming, but they're not because, you know what I'm saying? However, this is typical for subdivision. And that's what they're going to pursue. So to legally divide the land, the lots they're pulling apart have to be ready to build. They have to be conformed.

Yeah, they can't subdivide unless

a list here, but it's not uncommon with other ones that you guys have done.

Anybody have any more questions for Fran?

And do you look at number eight on that list of variances? As it stands right now, that is a valid request for a variance. Because it is a two-unit right now. The county is in the process of purchasing it and expanding their park.

Oh, on the neighborhood property. Yeah. Yeah, they are going to need. At least as much parking as they used to have.

So 80 is relevant right now, but in another month or so, it's not going to be relevant because they're going to tear the house down.

But it's also, it doesn't have to be that business forever. It's going to be something else. Does that work? Does that make sense?

The parking is free. And it's paid.

It's a remnant of payment anyways.

So the lot coverage is free of this thing?

Yeah. So would it be like you subdivide and you would sell to this business the property?

Yeah, that's what they do. We're trying to give them as little land as they need to. They don't need a lot. So we're trying to give them as little as they need. keeping the nine point, we're close to 10 acres for future development.

Yeah.

After they clean up property a little bit more.

Yeah, I'm assuming that you've talked to them and this is what they would buy.

Portal reuse? Oh yeah, they're under contract. This is what they want to buy and how much they want to buy. Yeah. Yeah.

And

Number seven, the front of your parking parking access to see 40% of it. A lot for the spirit system. Yeah. So the only things that aren't pretty good thing really learn.

One, two, five. Yeah. That's what would be once I was on the what would accomplish that early by purpose of

One through four are the only ones that aren't pre-existing. One through four were created by the proposed. Five through eight were our pre-existing. Well, if we're one stop shots, we take our question.

Send it on to the next. Yeah, I mean, the subdivision is the key thing to keep in your mind is that once that's subdivided, then some of these existing conditions will go over to the manifest themselves at that time. Then the remaining property is something that could be, has to be dealt with by, you know, by the earners. And we're really facilitating a subdivision of it to

30,000 square foot wide. That's why they narrowed it down to 6,000.

Yeah, they have a minimal need for infrastructure.

Yes, that's it. That's why the ones that are not pre-existing exist, because they've minimalized it so that this entity can afford the property.

You know, the thing they had down there at Homer had was pretty basic, you know, bullshit. And basically, that was a lot of just a good place to store things and then come in, go out, come in, go out, easy access.

This place has two floors, one floor for sales and one floor for rehab. For rehabbing.

No other questions?

No other questions around here. Trent, thank you for your welcome. Thank you. I'll entertain the motion to close the public hearing. Motion's been made for second. Second. Second has been made by Kyle. And all in favor, keep on saying aye. Aye. Thank you. Hold on. I won't speak. Those were our questions. Number one, whether an undesirable chain will be produced in the neighborhood or detriment to your probably will be created by granting of theory variants. I think, no, it's as the applicants representatives talked about. They've been cleaning it up from decades of neglect and what have you. So it's actually improving. Number two, whether the benefits sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method feasible for the applicant to pursue other than an area variance. I think, again, no, because the subdivision is going to create, as Roy explained, the subdivision creates some of the non-conformities and others exist from previous uses. So I think that's the best way to go. Whether the requested area variance is substantial, nine acres, it's not, there's not gonna be any more construction on it at least.

If you look at the size of the property, nine, 10 acres, this is 16, it's probably one big, so it's not significant. It's a small portion. Yeah, I think you're right.

It's not, and like you mentioned, they don't want to have it built anymore, but they need to get by. So I'm gonna go with no on that one as well. Number four, whether the proposed variance would have an adverse effect or impact on physical, environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. You kind of alluded to earlier is actually including it from prior ownerships. And whether the pledge self-efficacy was self-created, which consideration shall be relevant to the decision of the board, which shall not necessarily include in the area of variance. And I think the answer for this is yes, because they are pursuing something that is optional or is that it might be pursuing a subdivision. So I have four of those and he asked me for that one. So do we have any other things discussed amongst us? I'll I think we've looked it over talking over seeing everything friends friends of information spend about it and go as far as I'll entertain a motion to approve. Motion of the need to approve. The area variance request for 113 115 or Watson. as a way to facilitate future subdivisions and other work. So we're going to move to approve according to the application package, and I'll wait for a second. Do we need to condition for Eastville? Oh, yes, that's right. I heard you got a shared driveway. Yeah, we're conditioned on ultimately, I don't want to say ultimately, conditioned on securing A SHARED ACCESS OR AGREEMENT, AND WHATEVER THAT MAY BE, WITH BEING SOLVED BY COMMERCIAL OWNERS AND OTHERS AS NEEDED. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO ANYBODY?

YEAH, IT MUST BE DONE. MR. CHAIR, YOU WANT ONE MORE CONDITION THAT WE HAVE TO GET SELF-DIVISIONAL.

YES, AND THIS IS, WE ARE GRANTING variance uh so that subdivision approval can can proceed so this your approval is conditioned uh yes otherwise it's not just it's a little point the subdivided parcel once once half once it is subdivided uh will uh be approved uh first for the variance as described yeah we'll go to the i-6 to the planning board once we find out your vote and then i'll have to tell the board

what variances they can.

Yeah, they can put the subdivision because the city's already had the conditional variance request. So does that make sense to everybody? I think I've made motion for second. Second. Second has been made. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

Our last agenda item of discussion made passing reference last time. And so while the code does not provide for a formal recommendation process by the ZBA, I just want to officially bring to your attention that Planning Commission has recommended to the county council the approval of the zoned math changes proposed by the zoning officer. The county council scheduled a public hearing for July 7. And that outlines their recommendation and the changes.

And like Roy was talking earlier, there are several of these that are that are kind of bizarre in terms of why they were included in some of those district buildings. And if you look at it on the back or the only area with it, it's definitely unusual. So good. The only thing I was in this, now that I see the map and look at the map, where are these? I apologize. It should have been in color. It is on the website. And I'm excited. um and you know i'll have you tell me any what do you think of this is when we change something that is zoned in general business district whatever that may be wherever that may be to something that is residential we're taking we're removing the possibility of land and buildings and area from what could be developed for business. And I'm wondering, and I'm sorry about this, Jay, who was earlier with me, is that something that we should, or the county, or the planning department should ask the IDEA, VDA about the Industrial Development Agency or the Business Development Agency. That's the only reason I'm saying that is that they have presumably, I don't know how they work, but assuming that they have Some idea of where. The zoning that will accommodate the kinds of things that they want to do their charter, so to speak, and they say you know we have general business district and here's my math and I have somebody interested in building a house through very big a business there is that something that they should be in a. That's all I'm saying. And maybe that's something that we just...

I understand your question, but these are areas that already have businesses.

Yeah.

Already. So, I mean, it's been like this for decades. Yeah.

So let me say this. R4, the ones that changed in R4, you can have businesses in R4.

Yeah.

Anything that a little more... Restrictive might be the six or seven that we're changing to in R2 because they're in R2 neighborhoods right now. Yeah. But even that, their existing businesses, just like we were discussing with Mr. Merker's folks, they're allowed to maintain that business as a free agency, not just for years, no matter what we change. The problem I've seen, and we had this come up before your board, is that you have a place that will never be a bar again on the very end that this gentleman had to pay $250 to get a use for it, when it should have been a use by right all along. That was the purpose of this. You have 15 pockets that has been the Alamo since I've been a kid. It's never been a business. It actually might have been the doctor's office. But it's always been a resident. That was an essential.

It looks like it was something like that.

The why. The why, God forbid, something ever happens to that. They're going to get maximum dollar for that building as a multiple residence versus a business done. It's all about maximizing the potential of these properties.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, look at the... You're right.

I think the... Long ago, long ago, probably before your time, when that was designated General Business District, it was the idea was that it was all going to be one little mom-and-pop business after the other, after the other, after the other. And then once they left, another one was going to come in, another one, and so on and so forth. That's not the way it is anymore.

I mean, you can look at the... dog shop down here on oh yeah yeah the grooming you have a multi-residential building you have a multi-residential building and you have just had that little dog grooming shop in the middle of all yeah that's what could if the owner wanted to sell that now as a single you know one the people that run that plaza wanted to buy that change the way things are right now If the people wanted to purchase that, say, I'm just going to add this on to my parcel. I'm going to change it to an apartment. Right now, they can't. Whereas you've got the whole side of the street is multi-residential with the exception of the Daily Grind and that store. Everything else is residential. You look at the changes on broadband. From the Hollywood down, at the laundering, everything else is residential. But in the other side of the street, from 28 Groton, which is that multi-residential that is being sold, thank God. And then you got Jack Shannon Tire, or whatever that place is. No, not Jack.

Is this Shannon's Tire? Shannon is under Talmadge here.

Oh, yeah, Shannon's Tire right there. If that gets sold and he wants to maintain the entire business, that's fine. If they want to turn it into personal or professional offices at that point, that's allowed to them. But if they want to tear that building down and John Jackson wants to buy it, put another multi-unit in there, that lot is huge. And right now he can't do that. Same way with Thomas. Jim Reeders at one point wanted to buy that lot, put in two multi-units. And Thomas' lot is huge too. It's not only the garage in the front, it's the house in the back and then that huge parking. There's potential development there that's not there now because you can't put dwelling units on the first floor of Central Business. And this also maintains the current level of dwelling units that are there right now. And that's the only thing that that was about, you know, is to improve. So first of all, we're a pro-housing community. And we need housing and I'm going to I'm going to put the kibosh on the naysayers right now who are out there saying it's just about, it's about, it's about, they're just opening it up for more student housing. Not the case. That was not why we're doing this. We're doing this to allow for more housing, period. More affordable housing. So the more housing you have, housing prices theoretically should go down. It's fine, man. All right. And the only changes to what you might have there was the planning board decided to, there was two on Lincoln Ave, which one was already a multiple eight Lincoln and then nine Lincoln. The nine Lincoln was the funeral home. I had that down with an R2 just because an R2 neighborhood the rest of the way. Yeah. Eight is brick building. Yeah. So they, six, eight. So they thought since one is already an R4 and the, the, Your home is also a larger building to use that as a step down offer from an essential business are for. So those two were the planning board decided to change those two to an R4 because they're big enough buildings that they can with parking and everything else. And then the third reason is in essential business, and you guys know this right now, in essential business, parking is not required. So by changing all these to an R4, the current parking situation, all these places are previously not performing. But if any changes are made now to these properties, they have to provide parking, which is going to loosen up a little bit of the parking congestion we have in these downtown lots. Because now all, what was it, 87 properties? How many in total? 67? 47. 47 of those properties don't have to provide parking instead of not having to provide parking where there isn't a floor. Okay?

Yeah. I can see that being... I mean, I kind of like the centralized parking that we have. There's not enough.

Yeah. Perfect. So building units are created in areas where they're not right now. They have to provide their parking there too. So instead of saying, I don't need it. Right. So this was not taken lightly. I asked over with a bunch of people. We're going to be notifying everyone's, the property owners. I mean, this, believe it or not, I know you hear the words potential business. You think you're limiting what they can. As the only thing that, The four or five that are R2s, you're kind of hamstringing them a little bit, but they're already two families. Both of them are already two families. I agree. The R4s, you can have, there's six or seven things, you know, there's institutions you can have an R4, and then there's commercial uses that you can have. So on top of being able to maintain your pre-existing use, now you're going to be able to have, you know, More, actually more uses in our fire than you could in such a business.

Yeah, good. Go here. All right. I don't have any other questions about it. Are we going to, is this, we should, I was saying, so there's, yeah, the code does not, I guess the GBA's power center

That would have been kind of, you know, I wanted to make sure that you were fully aware of it and get some questions from you.

You know, there is a... No, I learned a lot from these people. I would have assumed a lot of the things that Roy was talking about, too. I asked him this question, so search evidence. It's a big difference to me.

Yeah. Oh, good. I mistakenly sent to you the minutes of May 18th meeting and which you have pretty much accepted at the first special meeting. Here with a couple of corrections are the June 1, it was a special meeting, it was short. um if you're comfortable looking at it quickly and i'm accepting we can um i need to make a uh capitalized mr parker's last name and i did a cut and paste uh into the certification that i did but you'll see my hand and it also affects their country

This was a use there. And so, you know, I thought that both of us should have that here. All right. No, that was the 18th day. Oh, that wasn't good. This is the 18th. This last one. That was here.

It looks to me like it's everything that we discussed there that, uh,

But, you know, you need it for two things. There's a loose there, especially in that space. And so, you know, different set of questions. And so, you know, if nobody's looked at the minutes from the special meeting of Jim Ryan, I'll entertain a motion to approve. I ask for a motion to be made and seconded. All in favor? So, if I was saying aye, the motion. Aye. Aye. And... You have approved it. That's written. Where's that? No other business. I'm going to move to adjourn. Thanks. I'm good.