Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call the December 1st, 2025 plan commission meetings into order. Our first item on the agenda is 117119 Quinton a site plan review. Uh William staff seeks a site plan approval for 14 parking spaces found us as repair garage. Uh the pro proposed plan makes no substantive substantive change to the property or to existing use. Is there anyone here to speak on uh Mr. Stson's behalf? You like talk please or tell us a little bit about what's going on. Thank you all sign in. Yes. Okay. Thank you.

I can't give you much much on that. Mr. Stas did call me and asked if he if we could table the agenda. item. Unfortunately, he's out of town. We love the the ability to address uh the commission and um ask that you please table it till your next meeting and then he'll he can be here and review the uh the application and the in the subsequent uh decisions that have been made prior to the planning commission. All right. Um and we have a motion to table this till our January 5th meeting. I'll make that motion. Jim makes a motion. Second. I'll second. I saw I saw Mike Sanford. I'll get you on that. Um, any further discussion on this?

All right. All those in favor of tableabling the 117119 say I. I. Anyone opposed? All right. Motion carries. So, we'll we'll save that for next month. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. All right. Our next item on the agenda is 121 central a site plan review ice seeks site plan approval to install new and relocate existing silo tanks with heights up to 32 feet. Is anyone here to speak on their behalf? You want to come up and tell us what the plan is? I know you you proposed one in the application.

Josh signing sheet over there. I have found. Okay. Just say yes.

Uh yeah, my name is Josh Fisher. I'm the general manager at So Foods. Um we're planning on uh moving an existing silo uh that's already on the property. Actually, the height on that silo is about 42 feet as it currently stands. Uh I think there's a 6ft back house on top of the silo. It's part of the existing structure. So currently that silo is on the property. Uh it's been used for sodash in the past, but we're going to clean it and and use it for either salt or sugar or flour. So the plan is um the blending operations that were at Kick or Marietta before uh were liquid blending and they were in a different area. Uh the blending for the powders is in the area uh where we we proposed and and built a pad uh to to erect these silos. Um, what it'll do is allow us to convey uh large amounts of material into our blending room that currently we can only do through 50 lb bags, which limits our capacity. So, with these silos, it'll allow us to to supply product uh to more production lines in the facility. It'll allow us to create to create more jobs, to produce more output per day, and put less stress and wear and tear on our workers having to manually move it. So, it's really critical infrastructure for us to uh follow through with our plan and uh support more jobs and create, you know, more production lines here in Portland.

I questions from the board and signing commission. Just the drawing shows four. Are there four silos or are those all different elevations of the same silo?

Yeah, there's so the we plan for four. the three that um we've prepared so far. Uh one is on site, it's laying down. Um one's 32 feet, one's 39, and the one that's existing is the tallest one that I described that's 42 with an additional 6 foot on top of it. So the one that's already there is the tallest one. The two that we procured, one is being moved from Canada. Um I think that's either the the 32 foot one and I think the 39 foot one's on site. It's in front of the building, but it hasn't been. And then there's space for one more that um we haven't procured yet.

So the total of four silos you're working on. Yeah, the there's we have three. We want to put up three as soon as we can, you know, weather permitting and you know, with the variance. Um but we have space for four. Correct. They weren't granted area variances accessory structure height. The minimum allow was 20. So you can they've got all all the four are approved. So ZBA did approve those because I haven't seen the ZBA minutes yet. So yeah those

uh how tall is the building that surrounds these and how tall is that water tank? Not exactly sure the height of the water tank. I know that the ceiling heights internally are 40. So roughly, you know, very similar in height. It it goes a little bit above it currently if you look at it. Okay. There were alcohol tanks there, weren't there?

There's an alcohol tank next to it. Um but that's, you know, maybe 25 ft high that'll probably be moved to the other location. overfill alarms. Uh I I don't know all the details about the controls yet. Um but we can work with you and put in whatever is necessary. Well, being this is res res from a hazardous materials standpoint. Um if you're going to put pepper Yeah.

or any kind I'm just saying. I mean pepper on the surface is not a hazardous materials unless you release large quantity and hit the counties of it at which point it becomes a respiratory irritate right um you weren't uh the the the one you're moving we actually did have an incident on the other side where the where they turned off the overflow warning and got costic uh ash all over the cars and all over the whole neighbor right so I'm sure Roy we'll put in Overflow prevention is not an issue. We don't want any spills. We don't want to lose product. Yeah, I get it.

And and when you're when you're talking to these guys, their their vision is to make sure that it's nothing is going to be unsafe for the neighborhood. You've got residential neighborhood right across the street. Y and when you're talking salt, something you can eat, you know, most of the time people don't think of it as being hazardous, right? Until you accidentally spill a large quantity of it and then does become hazardous. I'm I'm not saying you won't do it. I'm just I'm thinking I'm out loud. So, yeah. Yeah. So, the plan is to silo salt, sugar, and flour.

Can we assume I guarantee that those will be monitored and nothing will be released into the neighborhood? I'd like to maybe get that into the minute just to make sure that that's part of this uh site plan review. Yeah. Um have any other questions?

So, what's the fourth thing for determined It depends on our volume and capacity balance. It could be an additional salt, sugar, or or flour, one of those three. Um, but right now, I don't have um I don't have a a silent purchase, and we don't have a need for the fourth one uh immediately. But for the other three, we do. So, it's it depends on the the marketing balance of of our demand. So Roy, for our purposes, do we need to have some kind of in the future for that fourth silo put into it?

No, he's got it on a plan. So they're so as long as we don't care what's going into that. So they're all going to be relatively the the same size. They've got an air variance for accessory structures over 20 ft. So if it's unless it's you know two times that you know but environment environmentally wise we don't we're not concerned about what might be going into. No, no, no. I mean, if if it's if it's a hazardous material, actually, that pad was designed for isopropyl alcohol, so it's got overflow preventions in it, you know, for for a liquid. I'm more concerned about the overflow and

correct. Any other questions from the planning commission? Would somebody like to make a motion? I'll make a motion. All right, Mike. and a second. I'll second it. Tony, further discussion time frame. Uh, rigger and weather permitting. So, as soon as possible as long to weather cooperates. Yeah. Okay. All right. All those in favor of the site plan review for 117 I'm sorry, got the wrong number. 121 Central A say I. I. I.

Anyone opposed? Anybody abstain? All right. Motion carried for 121 Central Avenue. All right. Good luck. Thank you. You have rece. Well, uh, they'll call you to have you come in and sign a piece of paper. Great. Thanks everyone. Have a good day. Good luck. Thank you. All right. Our third agenda item is 70 Pomeroy Street, 98 East Port Street. Lotline adjustment. Dan and Carolyn Tagente seek lot line adjustment between parcels they own. Are either uh Dan or Carolyn here? I am. All right. You want to come up and tell us about it? I mean, it seems pretty straightforward, but I never know.

I know. Um, well, the family name has owned those properties for 102 years. In 1976, my my husband and I moved to 98 East Court. We lived there for 13 years and then we moved to 70 Palm. Over the years, my husband did a lot of things to the property. He did the driveways. I had no idea where the property lines were. I just assumed that the black top driveway at 98 East Core was the property line. It was never discussed between us. He did all the work. He did a lot of cement work at our driveway at 70B line. Two years ago, we stopped renting 98 court. It was too difficult. My husband's sick. He can't help me anymore. So, I have the responsibility of both properties. I had a survey done because I wanted to sell the house and when the guys did the survey that day, they showed me where the property line was. They immediately told me that I owned both properties. It wasn't going to have anything to do with any other property. and he told me that I could change the property lines. That's when I went into code and talked to Roy. So Roy, can you give us any background? Any more background on this? Is

she just moving? So she wants to keep the shed, which is more behind 98. Mhm. Court onto her com address. So, she kind of had to zigzag that property line around and do some do some lot line adjustments and so she needed to do a So, anyway, it's fine. She's got the new the the Do you got the new maps with you or Well, I think they're waiting. They did it with the old property line, right? So, they're waiting cuz I

Yeah. So, if they approve it tonight, they're going to have to bring in the new maps and Mr. McMahon's going to have to have to sign out on My only concern was does it does it leave the one property parcel too small? Yeah, that that'd be my only concern. They got variances. Yes, they got that was my only concern. No. Yep. No, we Yeah, it's probably but they they were granted all those all those variances at the at the ZB. Okay. Um they do have I guess you've got some other people that want to speak to. All right, all right. We'll want you come on up. And is there anything else you can add, Mrs. Tagante? No.

No. Other than I have a buyer that's proposing this. Okay. All right. I mean, my only question before she speaks is it looks like the shed as shown on the survey is still in the middle of the line. I don't know if I'm looking at the most current thing, but the new proposed line. I did that. Oh, I'm not I did the best I could to mess that up with word not.

Well, my name is Kaylee Carile. Um, I'm the buyer for 98 East Court Street. Um, so we have a signed contract for that entire parcel of land. For her to change it now after the appraisal is done would be a direct violation of said contract. We tried to communicate but haven't had much success. So, I just would like that taken into consideration that at this point a contract's been signed for that to become And your contract was for the whole original parcel 598. Yes. And an appraisal was done for that whole original parcel, right? Yes. So, it would have changed value. Plus, she had no problem. Plus what?

She had no problem. They took the property where she has nothing anyways. Um, none of them. sorry to speak. Um, none of them knew like even she said the actual property lines till the contract stopped the banks now a little bit. She has the disturbed rights basically it and so so it just would change the value right. So I'd like that taken into consideration and it would be a violation of this contract.

So it's currently under a real estate contract with 98 East court. the B party sign and those were under the old blind right who gives you. [clears throat] Can I say something? Sure.

I was pressured by the realtor saying the deal was going to fall through. I was waiting for the surveyors to do the job. He he they did the survey the beginning of October and right away I told the realtor that I wanted to change I wanted to change the line and she told me that we would deal with it later on and she told me she told them right away nothing I don't think you can do that if it's a signed contract you've agreed to sell that property as is. You can't change it after it's been signed. I mean that doesn't make any sense to me. But the realtor told me then I could back out of it.

Well, back. It's true. You can back out of it. You can back out of it, but then that then you got to find another buyer. Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, they they agreed to buy the contract or buy the property as it was. I told the realtor I didn't care if it is the realtor here tonight. I'd love to speak to them. The realtor? Yeah. Yeah. No, she not here. Yeah. Of course, they're not. See, I suggest that since Mr. Lewis is not here, this seems to be a capacious Yeah. Yeah, I mean it have to discuss with corporation council because I don't know what our legal what our legal stat could is it possible to table this until we can talk to

Would you guys mind that? I mean I don't want to throw your plans out neither neither you know but I don't think we can move on this until we hear from our attorney. This is definitely a legal issue. This is this is way above our pay grade. None of us are lawyers. I I don't think it's a legal issue for us, though. I think it's a legal issue for them. I think that we can look at it that she's asking us to move a property line that she's already sold. And so, we can't I I would say no. We You've already committed to sell the property line as it is on the lot plan. Well, that's what I'm thinking.

There's no way I could vote to approve the the switch. Well, we if we switched it, that would void their agreement to buy the house is what I'm saying. I guess, you know, they would they would no longer be Yeah. Well, it would be Yeah. To void the original contract. So, I mean, I I guess if they you guys want to do that, we can do that. But then that, you know, that goes to their their

I'd like to understand on your piece of property what you're gaining other than a shed. What what moving lot line? know there there's a grass area between the two houses. I would lose that. I would lose part of my driveway. I was given no option and didn't even know who bought the house. But as soon as the survey was done, I told the realtor and and I don't know at this point when when they were even told that I didn't want I was going to change it.

I haven't bought a house. Don't you do the survey before you put the house on market? So, it should have been done beforehand, not after the fact. Yeah. Yeah. That's what they're saying. Yeah. Sorry. Maybe that realtor I don't know. Doesn't sound like it's nothing malicious on her end here, but just to fix the line. Yeah, maybe. But it should have been done before before the house was put up.

No, it shouldn't have been done before the house was put on the market. At least my understanding. I've got a real estate lawyer or wish could do it at closing if the lot line was fine the way as the lot plan, but it is as it is now. Um, we'd be changing a property line that somebody else has already agreed to buy based on the original lot plan. Okay. So either options are bringing it to vote or table on you. Okay.

I just like our legal counsel to weigh in on this uh before we do anything. That that's my opinion. You guys take your words for it, you know. Um I don't I don't want to inconvenience either the buyer or the seller here, but it's definitely been a change in the agreement. So, but I want I want to get his take on that. That's my own two or whatever it's worth. What do you guys think? I mean, I understand what you're saying, Jim. You know, it's as far as we're concerned, it's something that can be done, but you know, how does that impact the buyer and the seller? I don't know. Yeah.

You know, I think to me avoid the contract between them because he originally agreed to the way it was originally. And that's why I question if that even has an impact on what we're doing. Right. Right. Right. So that's why everyone was leaning toward voting no on it, not approving it, and then why don't we just like the table until we hear that? That's what do you guys want to do? You're weigh in one way or the other. Do you want to table it? Do you want to turn it down? Do you want to approve it? What do you want to do? Any feelings one way or the other?

Think they're going to hopefully be back next month regardless, but don't know. And then also I want to get them give her time to bring bring the the realtor what seems like to me ahead of this whole mess in here with them to explain what right that would be helpful too. We could talk to the real estate agent. Yeah. Um well I'm going to go ahead and make a motion to table this until next month until we have a chance to talk to our attorney. Uh would anybody care to second that motion?

I'll second table I Chris. Any further discussion? All right. All those in favor of tableabling the lot adjustment for 98 East Court and 70 Pomeroy Street say I I oppose anyone. So we're just go we're going to we're just going to table that till next month because I want I want to talk to our attorney. I understand both sides here but I I don't want to short change what you want to do. Okay. So, if you don't mind, I think our next meeting is supposed to be the 5th of January. So, if you get going to come back the 5th, I hate to drag it back in. I know it's Are you using two separate realtors? Yes. Yes.

Yes. So, they should be in contact already. Well, they are. So, they should be both in attendance. Yeah. Thank Yeah. If they could, you can both of the day it was falling through. Okay. We didn't I seen the surveyors there before she accepted the contract. So, she had the surveyor. I drove by to drive by see the surveyors and talking to her before the contract was signed from her for us. So we thought it was a done deal and there's literally no property as it is. So like she has snow to get rid of. She has no way to get rid of snow and the shed right behind the house. There's like six feet back there for like maybe a grill. I mean there's we're not using a driver or something like that but she needs something to have her stuff on.

The hardest part is her closing is December 15th. So, if it's right, she's got money invested already. But, um, if she's been avoided, then it is what it is. But, Right. Right. is a buyer is not avoiding this or whatever. Yeah. I just want to make sure we're not, you know, messing legally with that. He either I'm not sell if, you know, maybe that can be delayed or postponed a month until January 15th or whatever. I'd have your realtors talk to each other. Yeah, let them talk and let's let's get everybody on board here for next meeting if you guys don't mind. Both sides. All right. I appreciate you guys being patient.

All right. Um going on to now number four on our list at 70 and a 70 and a half and 72 Elm Street lot line adjustment. Uh Travis and Jennifer Block seek a lot line adjustment granting a rear portion of their 70 and a half Elm Street parcel for parcel at 72 Elm Street owned by Betty and Donald White. Are either of those parties here tonight?

Correct. So you want to come up and tell us a little give us a little background here that So those really better than that one. Yeah. Good evening. I'm Travis. Um so I am the owner of My wife and I are the owner of 70 and a half Elm Street and Don White uh and his mother Betty White owns 72 Elm Street. Yeah. The actress was she I don't I doubt that.

So I'm here to prevent something like the last uh item agenda that he had. Um, so Don has that large pole barn at the rear of 72 and with the narrow lots that both of those parcels are, um, he would have no access to the rear of his barn. Um, he currently drives on on my grass to get behind his barn. Um, we have good we have good neighbor relationship there. Um, and I think he's fearing if I ever were to sell and somebody put up a fence,

he would have no access to the rear of his barn. So, with with a good neighbor relationship that we have, I said that's not a problem to adjust that rear lot line to lose approximately 50 ft. So, that's what I'm here looking to do. And you're you're okay with that? Yes. Because you're the one giving up Yep. part of the property. Okay. U anything anything from ZBA on this one that you remember? Uh they've already got the required answers. His bots more than big enough. Oh, it is okay. All right. Sponsored. Yeah, they're very long. Not real wide, but really I'm sure

the uh Mr. wife already went through a bunch of variances and site plan. Was this one of the first ones I did cuz that that pole bar never went through the proper channels. Oh, okay. So, I found it made him go through them all again for the pole bar. Okay. You guys remember that that there's a a shared driveway that goes back in there? Yeah. Um, and that wasn't paid. Now, Mr. White has paid it or did he pay that yet? Yes, he did pay it.

So, all that paid now. You guys ordered that to get paid. Do you remember? It was one of the first ones we did like that. I I personally can't remember, but I I believe you. I'm just trying to think of that. [clears throat] Which reminds me, that might be a a stipulation for your improvement, too. Just FY. Go ahead. Cuz every lot in the city is supposed to be in purpose eventually. Yeah. And that was kind of the the agreement there. Uh like he he he does driveway maintenance in the winter time. He paved it. It's a shared driveway. So So he he went through and paved that last one type. What about your grandma partner? Uh that he he took care of all that. Same same

go around. Um, so Mr. White had it. I didn't see there. I mean, I could have asked him to get in there a lot with it, you know, because nothing else has really changed. Even with that change of taking that off of there, it's still it's still that that wasn't changed. Did you see the new diagrams you gave us? Those are updated. I know they're just a little more clear to Yeah.

So that gives him access, but it's the barn is still on your property. His barn is completely on his property, but but my lot is too close to his barn for him to get his trailers and equipment behind the barn on the on the rear of it. And what what if one of them moves? What what's the what would be the situation then? with any change. One of them moves. Well, like say one one, you know, person moves and that's the new owner would have to live with the well, whatever we decide tonight, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's the idea. All right. Because he was the other the other guy was worried that something would happen and he had no more he no longer have access back there. Right. Right. No. What? So even though that's that little block is corn up on on your pictures that that get rid of that one line. Okay. I guess is the best way way to say that one line would not be there anymore. Okay. That tiny little block in the back, right? Okay. So you look at that one black line that goes between that little block in the back and and the building next door, right?

That that shouldn't be there. So, so his lot would be like virtually save shape of a seven and mine would still be a rectangle, right? Oh, got it. So, he needs that pulloff area where your prop your piece of property to get he's got some trailers and stuff back there back in you guys okay with this then? Anybody oppose? All right. Can I have a motion from someone to uh approve this lot line adjustment? I'll make that motion. Got two. I will second that motion. I've only got one here. The 70 and a half and 72, right? Yeah. But you got to approve both of them.

Oh, both lines. Okay. Well, let's do one at a time then. Let's do uh 70 and a half. I'll make a motion for 70 and a half to be in. So, one's a subdivision. That's a subdivision. Okay. They're biting the property. Protecting his property. 72 has a subdivision. Yep. This a lot adjustment 72. 72 is LA. Okay. So, let's do the subdivision for 70 and 70. I think that was the one. I need a motion for that. Motion. Second. Chris seconded it. Any further discussion on 70 and a half. All right. All those in favor say I. I. Anyone opposed? Anybody abstain? All right. So, that one was approved. Now, 72. You said it was what again? Adjustment.

Lot line. Lot line adjustment. Okay. Can I get a motion for 72 Elm Street for a lot long? All right. Second second, Jim. Further discussion. I'm sorry. That was Roy. You already talked about everything's been paved. So, we are Yeah, just a confirmation of what I thought. Actually, was one of the first ones we did like that and it actually worked out. We gave a couple years to pay it and it got done. So, got it done. Good. Good. Nice. All right. Any further discussion on 72 Elm Street? All right. All those in favor of the lot adjustment for 72 say I.

I. Anyone opposed? Anyone abstain? All right. So, that motion was approved. So, good luck with it. Thank you. That's very nice. All right. Our fifth item on the agenda is three square street. Uh Richard Carter rather seeks site plan approval for installation of 64 foot sign placement of a shipping container for use as a storage shed and change of parcel's use from vehicle sales to contractor services i.e. tree removal. Is Mr. Carter here? I get 64 square feet. 64. Did I miss Well, going through the documents, that's kind of what I

Oh, 64 square feet. Okay. I thought it say square foot. 16 by four. 16 by doing four. Okay. All right. Go ahead, Mr. Prior. If you tell us give us a little bit more details about Basically, that's where the sign was from when CASA had it. So, I just put a sign back there. That's my gym um bath. And then the um shipping container is just a you know, dry storage or whatever on the back side of the building or the side of the building.

Um I What was the and I didn't even know about the parcel being changed from vehicle sales. Then I don't even know where that came from. I put that on there because because it was a vehicle sales which is allowed in the GI going to a contractor services which is also allowed in the G. That's I was gonna ask if this was allowed then in fact I want to commend Mr. Carter for he moved down here in into the city put a parcel that really wasn't being used. Now it's now it is being used. It's back on the tax rules. I mean, it was always on the tax level, but he's also complying with an order he got from Courtlandville zoning and code to clean up his property up the street. So, that's one of the reasons he moved into the city. Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Carter. Yes. From Kevin McMahon. All right. So, so basically like M uh like Roy said, you're you're basically moving your business from Court or Courtville to Courtland. Well, that's kind of a screw because I really didn't have the business there. I just parked my trucks there. Oh, I see. So, but you know, I needed a place at Arkham that was commercial. So, yeah. Yeah. Luckily, that place was commercial and was right down the road. So, all right. Sounds like a good plan. Uh, questions for Mr. Carter. He said the uh storage unit behind the building.

Behind it. I don't know what I think I had on there in the side, but there's like another spot. I might put it in the back and then just for like tools and things parallel to the building right not next to the not on the railroad side on the back side of the railroad. Okay. Yeah. Just storage for just dry storage taking out the shop area. So not inside the fence. Um I don't know whether to put it on the back side like recommend inside the fence on the inside of the fence where I had so where I have it on there.

That way you have it blocked twice. Oh yeah. So nobody will get in and stuff steal your things, you know. Just be safer for you to have had contractor stuff get broken into. So I make sure it doesn't happen. Right. Good idea. All right. Any other questions for Mr. Carter and site plan review? Would somebody like to make a motion for Can I just remind him of one thing before you make Yeah, go ahead. Make sure all vehicles outside are licensed and not unlicensed and make sure they're all licensed and registered. We don't want to keep too many unlicensed, unregistered, what the city defines as a junk vehicle, even though that they're not junk. It's just the definition, right,

on that site because that's where we will run into run into issues if there's any unused motor vehicles on that site. Okay. Or trailers or sounds fair. All right. Somebody want to make a motion for the site interview for Wire Street? I'll make the motion. Tony second. Second, Mike. Further discussion. All right. All those in favor of the site plan review for three square street with the um recommendation that Roy had as well. All those in favor?

I [clears throat] anybody opposed? Anybody abstain? All right. So, plan review for three square was approved. All right. Good luck, Mr.

All right. Our next item on the agenda is 191 Main Street site planner view. Uh Jeremy Styles seeks site plan approval for installation of a backlft 18x3 foot wall sign to the south side of the building. Hi my name is Chris owner of Ocean Collision Russ. These are pictures of the shop. This is just a random picture of you know a similar sign that that the sign of the the the other shop is a little bit bigger than than ours. So he's here because the new one's lit is backwards. Yeah. New sign backward.

Square footage is going to be slightly bigger than the existing sign. Um, it's uh customary of uh we're at NAV Auto Care Center, so it's customary for them to to uh have us have the look. Um, so I just wanted to go through procedures to make sure, you know, they they gave me some heads up to go, hey, we ran into some customers that just put it up, you know, cuz it's we want it up, but they'll make sure you get go through the channels to get get it approved and save myself a headache. Yep. Understand? So the sign is within uh legal size that it should be. Is that correct?

Yeah. So there's no street front is there? Well, there is. It's Yeah, the building's huge. Yeah. I mean Yeah. So there's other businesses in that building, right? Oh, Capco and even even that's I mean the building's long. Yeah. So even if you count that and you count the that street I can't remember the name, but that is a street that's not park, right? Yeah. Oh, good. Um, so that that is a street. So that is that is street frontage. Oh, I didn't realize that. But any in any district the the square footage assigned cannot exceed the linear square footage in front of the build. Okay. This doesn't even get near it because it's such a long building. Building. All right. Right.

Okay. Pretty straightforward to me. Uh, question for now. You're not Mr. Staza, right? What you No, he's my contractor. Okay. Um, any questions for this site plan view of this sign? An 18 by3 ft sign back lit. I know lighting sometimes bothers neighbors, but this is pretty much a commercial area. It's a general industrial neighborhood. Industrial area, so it's not going to bother anybody. So, the sign faces the Courtland Plastics or whatever. Yeah. Side just Yeah.

the housing across the street. It's not one of the new LED. It's just a, you know, a dimly lit, you know, um, no bright lights or, right? You know, and again, it's not facing any residential, right? It's just like plastics, you know. Um, you get slight exposure coming down the street. That's our main our main goal. A little more exposure, you know, coming down south. Yeah. Yeah. So, you said it's going to be a NAP assignment. Uh, it's going to say uh Napa Autoare then OA Collision Center. I think we just did one for down on Watson. The same guy. Yeah.

Square footage is the same as his. Um, his just has two. So, it goes on the corner, you know, but square footage the same. Still the same. All right. Can we have a motion to approve the site plan review for 191 Main Street? I'll make a motion to approve as presented. All right, Chris. Second. Seconded, Jim. Further discussion. All right. All those in favor of the site interview for 191 Main Street say I. I. I. Anyone opposed? And be abstained. All right. Good luck with that. All right. Thank you for coming. Appreciate it.

All right. Our last item of the agenda is uh a special use permit for Dr. Medvid L Med. I'm sorry. They have a E L D on. Yes, Ronald. E I D E I D. Hi. Sorry. I'm uh Dr. Wally D. That's my mother. She owns Six Locus LLC. Caitlyn, hello. How are you? I believe you're Tony. Joe, Chris, Jim, Mike, Captain Roy. How are you? I just want to make sure I know. Give me a quiz later. Yeah. We're gonna move our seats. That seems easy. start from time.

So, I'm not sure if I should start here, but I I did speak to Captain Abra and Mr. Randall Lewis. I thought he'd be here, but these buildings are technically already connected because that definition is not defined by the state of New York or by the city of Corbin. They share a waterline and they share a wall. Now, it is a bit subjective, but at the end of the day, it would be Captain Everett's decision. He could say these are connected which he has told me in the past or he could say we want a little bit more structure. Regardless after speaking to Mr. Lewis seems pretty clear that everyone is satisfied with them not actually being connected any further. So that is kind of what we're seeking here just to salvage what's been done over the past two years.

So if I may Yeah, go ahead. Um we got to review the site plan. Because the original the the original site plan was for two separate buildings. Then it was tweaked because the special use permit was denied initially the two separate buildings. Now going back we want to re we want to re re go back to the original site plan. moving the garage, the parking area is now back off the off the residential property line. It goes back towards the the the cement building.

Mhm. Cement the Ready. Yeah, the Reck is back there. Um and the building's done. Um, one of the reasons the special use permit was was was denied through no um, I believe no fault of I mean they are the building owner so they do own some fault in this. However, I believe the original contractor the front building did not give them any notification that we were not that that work was done without a permit. [clears throat] I would like to just deny fault though for the record. Um, okay. Whatever you want. I'm not I'm not pointing fingers. I'm saying I believe I believe it's we have history with that contractor. However, Mhm.

Um, since then building is almost done with the sprinkler or done the building, which building the original former, uh, they are ABJ is installing. They have about 2 three days left. That building though is currently three units and would require the sprinkler system. I want the sprinkler system in. However, we would have the option now to convert that to just two units and not require the sprinkler. That being said, we're paying, we're told to be $10,000. Company that works in Courtland quotas at 90. We're paying over 40 for ABJ to sprinkle it. For safety reasons, I would love that have that sprinkled, but in this situation, it would have be required if we convert it to two, but there's no reason not to have.

So, right. Anyway, what I'm saying is is that they have complied with everything in terms of fire fire life safety that I've asked for. Mhm.

And honestly, having a a separation between the between two buildings and not having them connected in case of a configuration is better fire safety wise. So that being said, I just I mean it must be for them that they want to they want to go back to the original site plan. Sand's moving. The the garage is no longer on that on is no longer on on the uh north side of the property. It's on the west side of the property now. So, I mean, from October 21st, 2023, you guys you should have that. So, you you referenced images

when we spoke on the phone, you referenced an older image, but this is the one I have a sealed one over there. It has the carport here. It has the carport where it is. So, yeah. I'll show it to the one you pulled up was the old one that carport over there. Yeah. All right. So, we're good. So, the carport isn't a bad You can see it. This one here. You know, there's carport. So, this is Locus. Here's the entrance. Mhm. I'll bring there. So, the carport is there and the new structures here and the existing structures there. And there's a there's a space here, 10 foot opening between them with a wall that connects them.

No. So this is the uh here's loies. Here's the entrance. Here's the carport straight back there. Here's the news charger unit. This all completed. We have a temporary permit of occupancy for these units. Those units are beautiful. Beautiful. Highend. I mean obviously they're targeting high-end clients. I mean I had a conversation with someone. I said we're trying to invest in the city of Portland. So like two years ago I wasn't on this project. If I was, I think they would have gone a little bit differently because we're just trying to invest in this area, right? We're not trying to get anyone to go broke.

We want to bring in people, professionals, young professionals. My mom is a position in the area. She works at Corin Guffy Corlin. So, like that was always our intention. This wasn't like a come develop and leave situation, right? She lives in one of those units. So, the the the six foot privacy fence got put up. Uh that's weather dependent. So this is an image here that was for the neighbor out. So the white will be a privacy fence. It's 8 foot not six foot. 8 foot. 8 foot. Yeah. Yeah. It can be because that's a gen that's a GI district. Okay.

So there was an issue with that neighbor. That's one of the reasons why this building is a non-traditional like you know to the side they're an L-shaped situation. So, also there was going to be an 8ft fence completely on the original on the original site plan, but uh the neighbor requested that front where the white is be a fence and then the green be a natural green vegetation vegetated barrier. So, the neighbor has a fence there. The only issue is the reason why that fence isn't up now. It's all it's all weather dependent at this point, right?

Is because I don't think you remember and it's obviously he said she said situation with his neighbor. in order to try to be I don't know respectful and do their wish listings. They didn't want they said can we not do a fence after the initial plans said fence.

So I do know for a fact that there are people in city of Portland who have an issue with our contractor. This has been said to me by multiple people who work for the city of Portland. This has also been documented in other ways. So he didn't charge us with the fence according to his contract. So that's why he said he was told he didn't need the fence because of that situation I described. So we are getting the fence up as soon as we can. But if I put it in now and then it thaws and it sags, it's just going to look uglier and I think it'll be a bigger issue.

So that is scheduled. So technically we are in violation of the permit that expires. Even though we have a temporary permanent of occupancy, we just can't get that fence up. So according to Mr. Lewis, the city just won't take us to court each month be like, "Hey, you're in violation of the month because there is a plan. there's a down payment to have a fence once it can be done. So, the thing is is until that fence is done, he's going to get a temporary certificate occupancy and not have to spend $4,000 to renew a permit for $1,000 worth of fence. Right. Right. Okay. So, he won't get his permanent certificate occupancy till that fence

till the fence and the and the the whatever whatever they're going to plant their stuff vegetation. Yeah. not planting seeds on yet. Maybe some I just don't I just don't see them renewing a permit for $4,000 or whatever it is. Do you want to take those? I mean, it's still going to it's still going to cost them money to renew the the occupancy surf, but I believe it it goes up each month. Yeah. It maxes out at 200, but then it's 200. So, it's Anyway, it's less expensive.

Yeah, exactly. Yep. So should we have any wording and if we approve the special use permit to address the vegetative strip and the fence being part of the vegetative buffer buffer previous it's already in the it's in the previous from two years ago it does say fence. Yeah. So the gentleman again he's this um the neighbor keeps asking me for different things and we're just trying to appease him in the best way possible. Um, I do know the neighbor has complaints about this work. I have to in due respect, he he does. I've spoken with him. Alderman Carpenter has has has spoken with him. Please take that into account that he does have complaints.

He has trespass also on security footage. Uh, however, we've spoken to Mr. Louis and uh we've got multiple places in the city of Portland that have two multiple dillings on the on on the same property, right, that are in more restrictive districts than this like a GB. You and you guys have approved um comments comments is a GB2 which is two steps down from a a excuse me GB1 instead of a GI GB1 which is one step down from a GB1. And you guys approved three buildings up there. Okay. Three multiple dwelling buildings, right? So

this wouldn't be the first time this is done. No, no. You got ones on You got ones in R4 on Main Street. I mean on Tampa Street, Mr. Reiner's buildings, right? But those are, you know, Yeah. So I believe, and this is I'm not trying to sway your vote or anything. I believe the city is almost has a responsibility to these guys to approve this special use per Oh, yeah. No, I I agree. I just I just want to make sure we included everything that we're supposed to have in there, you know, as far as Yeah. Yeah. So, fence. Yeah. Make sure the fence is in there. Make sure the the vegetative buffer is in there. Okay. Driveway is not fully paved yet. It does have a binder. Oh, binder. But the the top coat top coat's coming this spring.

Top coat will be this. Um other than those other than that 10 ft space and as you stated the building's fully sprinkled now that was one of the reasons we um I believe you guys I was upset about it too. You know that building never got a permit was changed. Um and I think motions were running a little high there including mine when that you know when that work was done over COVID without a permit or anything. up.

Um, they have worked with us to fix this situation and those two buildings right now are the safest they're going to be. And I thank them for doing that because as you said, he could he didn't have to do it. He could have just Yeah. pulled the unit out of it and what go I mean we we'd have been lost a unit. Right. Right. We need housing. Right. And now both buildings are fully spring. Yeah. with an alarm that goes off, sir. Thank you. All right. Um, can I have a motion? Um, you guys,

very good neighbors. Ma'am, do you have anything? Okay, that's fine. Oh, you're in support of them. I feel like that's a change because I feel like I've never been to one of these, but I was I was prepared. I came with all my papers. That's huge. So, uh, what you're voting on is, uh, change the site plan back to the original one with the two buildings. Okay. And the special and he's reapplying for the special use for two multiple dwellings on one property. Okay. Can we just make sure that's in the minutes? those two things.

Yeah, I just the new site plan isn't part of our like the old site or site plan. So, it should just be included in this paperwork, right? That's my fault. Okay. I I was thinking about it afterwards and it's just I kept would we be allowed to put a fence in the rear um between you know the Yeah. Now it's time to ask for it because you get so we announced some in the area. The neighbor came over and said they'll cross the line into the concrete or whatever. So there's uh what they call a fell tree there, right? Which to me is not a great thing to have in any city, right? I live in Rochester. That's something they get you get that out of there. Yeah.

So, we hired somebody to come and remove it. The neighbor came over and said, "Nope, that's not your property. Get off it." I think they called you and I think you came down that if you recall. So, we wanted to just put a fence along the back there. It would still be the 8ooted match the same colors. The only the only gap would be that little live buffer because they have a pool and they have their own fence. So, we wouldn't go fence on fence. Okay. Let's make sure we include those those requirements in our site plan uh or special use permit application. Um, can I have somebody make a motion to this? I'll make a motion. Mike second. Second. How many further discussion? And that second fence will go up in the spring. The rear one.

Yes. Yeah. When they do when they do the side, they'll all do the same same job. All right. Um, all those in favor say I. Did you guys say you're in favor of this? Okay. You might want to make a note of them. All right. All those in favor of the special use permit for six locus staff say I. I. I. Anyone opposed? Anybody abstain? All right. Good luck. Thanks. Is there is there also commission not here? So is that going to be an abstain technically or you need you needed four of us to say yes. Five will say yes. We should be fine. Awesome. Thanks so much. I know you're last on the agenda. I don't know how they decide these

we got two um sent us you guys have any questions about either of those or is there anything you want to change? Oh wait wait waiting on the meeting minutes or other know about it. It's not that we're trying to hide anything. The entire city tomorrow the entire city is going to know about but it is a zoning law change and you guys have to put your foot in on it.

Okay. You want to hand those out, please?

This is something we have to improve tonight. You guys got You guys don't approve it. You guys put your input on it. Oh, it's feedback. It is a law change. Where do we start? You start with the if you want to read the there is a clip note version I actually I have to do it's just like my uh item are there any specific conditions like I kind of wrote down was one uh fish had to be vegetative script where was indicated and the sprinkler test will be completed.

I think he said he's going to be done in a few days. System. It's already in there. I mean, that's part of the code compliant. We have the original, but that's fine. But okay, we're on page three, Joe. So, he's going to have three units. He's got Do we want to stop recording? No. Absolutely not. You guys got to make You guys got to make your It's like this. Any recommendations you want? Should be like this. This is going to the first public hearing tomorrow. All right. All right. I think we're all right. Tomorrow night. If you read page three, that that's your question. Okay.

Roy, what do you want? Do you want me to call that? It's a item number eight. And then what you want me to call it? Agenda item number eight. Like a name. Zoning law amendment. [clears throat]

So, this has to go to the county as well. going to go to the just our meeting account. Just in a nutshell, the new way we're doing it is going to give us more teeth in the game to enforce density that we've ever had. There's no grandfathering anymore. No one's going to argue that we're being unfair. No one's going to argue that we're picking on it. Our our new occupancy law is based solely on the New York State property maintenance code in the square footage listed within it. So only three unrelated will be allowed per unit. Is it?

Oh no, that's gone. Yeah, just square footage. Oh, based on square footage. Again, I'm going to say this. The biggest hurdle we had to that was people had certificates zoning compliance that said you could have more than three million. You couldn't have more than three. When's the grand date? When when's that? That's going to be gone. That's all going to be gone. So, it's just it's you can have so many people based on the square footage of your like you got honest to God if you look at the if you look at it it's more restricted than you could ever think it could be. I mean, once you get over five people, you have to have a living room. You have to have a dining room a certain size

certain sizes. So, that's going to eliminate changing those areas in that that for the longest time are being changed to bedrooms. Oh, I see. Right. Yeah. Because you have to have those spaces or a combined space of the of of the square footage. So, I'm I'm thinking like if I'm a landlord, I'm going to be probably opposed to this that what I'm just trying um actually the landlords have been out the landlords have looked at this and they're all all they're okay with this. They're okay with it. Who would be opposed to that? I mean, I'm trying to think who would who would be against. This seems like common sense to me, you know. I don't know.

Um there's a bunch of other points to this. Um the rental permit law is going to allow us to not only um so rental units we're not so you're going to be so we're not going to have rental permits anymore. You're going to have a rental certificate of occupancy every three years. Every offense is going to have a point value. Every offense and in other words every time they violate something they're going to get a point taken off or or points. I don't know what exactly it is. I believe it's in there. Once you get down to a certain amount of points, you're going to have to come visit you guys and with a

request for one, they'll have to come to you guys and say, "Look, this is our plan to fix this." Honestly, if you get down below those points, they're not going to have a request. You guys are going to tell them how to fix it or they're going to lose. I see. Um, also look at the fees that are attached to that. Um, the more rental units you have, the more you're going to pay for your rental certificate of occupancy. Makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. So, on the surface, it doesn't seem like it's like it's more restrictive and it's not designed to be more restrictive. It's designed to be more fire safety, public safety focused than it is now.

What we want. Um, with this, they've also agreed to lift their ban on us or a registered design professional inspecting one or two one one or two family rentals, right? There's no more self inspection. Oh, okay. The city of Courtland will do all the inspections now or you will hire a design professional to do your inspections. It's more fire safety, public safety, quality of life based than the old laws were. Okay. or higher, huh?

We have more teeth in the game. This is much more enforceable based on the fact that it's sitting right in the near state property maintenance code and it's not a law that is generated in the city of court ordinance. So, you're just looking for our feedback. Can I county council would approve this? a bad word. It's a law county council has to So there's a public public hearing the the December 16th meeting they'll either approve or Okay. It makes sense to me. I I mean there's lots to read through here, but

in almost 15 years of doing this job, I've seen one case one case when the guy came in and plead guilty and went back and did it all over again because you couldn't couldn't double jeopardy. Yeah. So, this is us not chasing the chasing the cat's tail. This is us trying to be proactive and coming up with a way to listen to the needs of the the people that that that live in these neighborhoods, the the year-long residents that live in these neighborhoods, but also look at it from a public safety quality of life perspective versus just county heads, right? That's the way it was done before, right? Um, I mean, this makes sense to me for what

and more importantly, everyone's been at the table. We sat in meetings with with the landlords that opposed it. You know, we've sat and everyone every stakeholder has has has had input on this. So, it's not like anybody can say, you know, you didn't ask for my opinion. Yeah, we've had we we we've had stakeholder meetings. I would draw people's attention to page six seven and eight which lists the number of things that can be inspected which is pretty interesting. It's things like occupancy and resences. You know, those are real things, right? They're all good. You want to know, you know,

I can flat out tell you based on that law right now, it'll be difficult in a in a typical single family home to get a lot of people in there. And if you do, we know that we we know the problems that are caused by density the the potential unless you get really good tenants of losing your ability because like theoretically they could come to you guys lose some point values come to you guys and say you know that this is what we want to do. You guys could come back and say you know what the five ain't working you got to lower it to four. You guys have that ability based on what what's gives us one more problem. Yeah. You and the ZBA. Yes. Yeah.

But again, I want to stress essentially the law was uninforceable the way it was pre previously previously written. Right? This gives us more teeth to attack the not attack the problem of over density but to attack the problems that are caused by over density. Right. Right. Which in turn will will allow us to say look you can't have five kids anymore because you can't your property can't handle you can't handle it. You need to lower it to four. You need to lower it to three. You know but that's not my decision. That's not one person's decision. That's they're going to be able to come plead their case. ZBA is going to be able to hear it. Um,

now are we talking about single families? Like have two or three kids or what are we talking about? No, no. So what? Yeah. I mean, if you mentally, right? Yeah. We're not talking about single families. We're talking about rentals. because everything now if you look I mean if you look at the one page there's certain things that be t that are being amended in the zoning [clears throat] but a lot of that stuff is making its way into the new rental permit law and it gives that law more teeth and us more ability to say enforce

and I'm going to tell you tell you flat out as a fireman as a building inspector I love the fact that we're going to be able to inspect one and two family dwellings now because most of our problems based on based statistics. Most of them are missing smoke detectors. When we go into when we go into a rescue call, most of the time we see missing smoke detectors. When we go to a a smoke in a house call, even fire calls, the more we see more missing smoke detectors in buildings that we don't inspect than the buildings we do in. And that drives me nuts as a public safety professional because the one thing you can do, the one biggest thing you can do to save a life and get your get your family, get people out of the building, our smoke detect,

right? And the way it is right now, yeah, property owners can just put their name on the dotted line and say that that they've installed smoke. They've installed one and maybe they have, but who knows, right? Right. You have no way to check that. But it seems to be based on our data that the buildings we inspect have less problems than the buildings we we don't inspect. And this is going to be all rental property we're going to inspect or at least we're going to get an eyeball on at least we're going to get credentials from someone that that

you know a design professional is going to be much more expensive than a code. Right. Right. is uh do you should this pass do you anticipate a backlog because of the more infections?

Um we've already figured that out. We're going to get one extra guy to code office next year. I mean unfortunately the extra gu is going to cover next door a lot but we are getting one extra guy. Um a lot of those inspects so a lot of the as they are already will be divvied up between next door and here. So it's not just our office that'll be doing the the majority of our firemen are code enforcement officers as well. So they do a bunch of the inspections next door as well. So it I don't foresee being a backlog. So the one in two families is going to be an extra because we're also doing so so one or two families we we never we got permits from them but we never inspect them.

Um two family owner occupies were exempt. They are no longer exempt either. We're gonna we're gonna inspect the the rental the rental side of the ultimately as a public safety professional I feel this is going to just enhance our ability to make the residents of the city of Cland safe. I I agree. What are these all those other fees that are listed in? Well, that all those other fees, some of them don't pertain to anything, but some of them, like I spoke to you before, if you look at the rental unit, you can see as your rental units go up, so does your fees.

Sure. As far as the inspection goes, but I mean, is that all this is covered is inspections like uh water search, uh final? No, no, that's some of that stuff doesn't even contain. That's what I was wondering. I'm like, what are we what are we uh lingering in here? No, just some of this is is our building permits the stuff that you can see the inspection fees but I want to call out

right here. I think this is just all the fe. So if you on a page mark five, right?

I think it's page five of the fee stage of Yeah, thanks. Page five of the fee schedule 103. Yes. So are these the new these are the proposed ones or are they occurring? Those are the proposed ones. So on so the other documents or other fees list you have like a red next. No some of them are not that doesn't pertain to what this law is going it's basically those ones in 10310. Yeah. So as you can see your as your units go up. Yeah. Your feed. How often do these houses have to be inspected? Every three years.

Every three years. So, we were going to lower the fees and do every two. Oh, okay. I wish Mr. Lewis was here to give you specifics. To give you specifics how we figured this out, um, I can tell you based on speaking with him, some of them do seem quite high, but if you do the math, every three years, that means somebody's got to raise their rent 10 bucks to make it up over three years. So, it's really not as significant as it looks, right? But

remember, it's every three years, not annually. So, I'll use a property and I'm not picking property has 55 rental units or $7,000 every three years with one kid per year and that's low end. Okay. Lori, you said the it'll not be rental permits anymore. It'll be called what? Rental certificate of occupancy. I believe that's what the verb is.

It's just for you guys to look over and see you have any input to it. I believe Mr. Lewis did a fantastic job on this. I think it's certificate of uh rental certificate of rental compliance. Here's what page you want. Wish I could show you. It's I'm looking at nine, but I think it's mentioned earlier. It is. So I mine is a certificate of rental compliance also that that nomenclature goes right along with the fire and uh so okay it it's more of a univer it's it's a law written more universally around what we have the bill enforced through the fire code and property code versus our local ordinance.

So this is laid on the public hearing is tomorrow. Yes. Uh so any landlord's going to be here for that or I don't know but I can I can tell you that again I want to stress that all the stakeholders we we've had meetings about this be surprised you say it's not you're shocked then that pass goes into effect January one honestly uh if it passes it'll go in effect January one. Yes. But they take the grace period too because it won't so it won't so the new

when you renew so anybody that's already anybody that's got to renew in 2026 will be phase it in yeah or phase so if you don't got a renew in 2026 you don't have to worry about it until you do rever [clears throat] Yeah. Yeah. If people are curious about the uh the points, how you how you rack up points. Okay.

Gified rental. So, our current computer software allows us to create a checklist and we can put a checklist on a rental certificate of compliance and mark that down and that'll that checklist and every every everything on that list will have a mark and you just check it and it'll take the points down for us. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And it'll give us a notice when it gets down to certain.

Yep. So, that's already been built actually. We we we looked into this a long a long long time ago. This has been in the works for quite some time. I've discussed it with you guys in the past. It just between AJ and you know now Mr. Lewis is in here and we were really something something I've been passionate about for for a long time you know doing more inspections of the rental properties and I'm very excited that it's actually coming to coming. Yeah. All right. We we still have two minutes of August and November. Can we do them both together? You guys get no feedback. Young government, right? Yeah. And then November 3rd, you pass it on to Brandon.

Yeah. On the November 3rd meeting. Andy would have had it already, but Andy heard the date. I do apologize about that. It's on the November 3rd packet, I think. Just Yeah. Um Yeah. I'll I'll make sure he knows that cuz he hasn't posted it and I'll just I'm giving him my copy so I'll make a note. All right. Any other changes you guys noticed? Jim Jim good catch on that one. I I skimmed through here. I didn't really read it word for word, but I thought they look pretty good. Um let's just approve both of them together. All those in favor of approving the two sets of minutes November 3rd and August 11th. Can I have a motion?

Jim second. I'll second. Chris, further discussion. All those in favor say I. I. Opposed. Any abstensions? So both minutes. Just that one change. Make sure we have any chunk. Also before you end the meeting, um couple things to keep in mind. Meeting dates for next year. January 5th, I think, is our first first Monday in January. Actually, January 5th is the last meeting for the this is actually your November planning meeting. You have one more for the December. Oh, there's another December one. Yes, there is. There is. When would that be? I think January 5th was our next

I was going to say it says January 5th. January 5th is still for this year though. Yeah, technically they did put it into this year's because November 24th, 2025 was the last time they could submit for September. So that January 5th meeting, we're going to need to discuss the schedule for next year. Okay. Couple of things that we're eyeballing is moving DBA and ZBA and you guys around because in some research we've done the ZBA is an appellet court. You guys are not an appellet court. Okay. So technically we should be making the decisions.

You guys should be making the decisions and they should if you guys deny something they should have the ability to hear it. said that when we switched into same here and same here. So we will discuss that at our January separately sometimes. All right. All right. Can I get a motion to adjurnn? I'll make that motion. Second. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Oh, also elections in January too. Okay. If anybody wants this job, they can happen. And you guys should have a new member by then, dude. trying to get somebody. I believe they already have found somebody. Oh, they have found somebody. Good. They don't know. Brandon, I'm pretty sure will be at the January meeting.

Oh, that'll be the So, don't vote for anything on the 5th. [laughter]

I'm going to go. Yeah, we're ajourned. Yeah, I will definitely be at that meeting. Yeah, I should shouldn't open my mouth, but obvious Joe's going to make sure I get to the airport, so I definitely he didn't pass it on.