Planning and Housing Commission - Regular Meeting

Chino Hills. Thank you for coming to see you again. We're also Shop D approved. Welcome to the city park pop-up event. Doing the community outreach is a great way to get everybody involved. The city is so focused on getting everybody's input because this is a place that's going to be a city community center and making sure it's the right fit for everybody I think is important. So, I love this park. It's just exciting to see this new changes that are coming to Corona. The city We want to see it look beautiful. This park was actually our first introduction to Corona and it almost dissuaded us from moving here. It's very exciting to see what the possibilities of the future city park could be. Yes. Exciting.

Corona has a lot of a lot of good culture here and looking forward to having a center place to celebrate that. We're excited about the rebirth of the city park for over 100 years a community. Now more important, it's going to be a chance for a rebirth of city park to be timeless. I grew up in this park. I'm glad to see all the different plans. I love that we get a say in it. So, it's not just, hey, we're we're the the government officials, the city officials making the decisions, you know, with this budget. It's saying, hey, we want to incorporate your ideas, your thoughts. So, to have something like this, it's nice that they're letting the community choose their park and take a look at all the models and be part of it.

I'm seeing more and more now the city council parks and reccks are more and concerned what the residents want. It's all about the residents now. and how do we make Corona uh you know more beautiful and more attractive and more fun to come to. I love it. I think it's great. It really allows you to see what they're really planning on doing. The presentation is good. Absolutely. I think this city does need something like this. The main thing is they're listening to the people. I'm excited to hear what they had to say. I was I've been very concerned for a long time. We try to add constructive criticism, but it looks like they're doing a great job and we're really excited for that groundbreaking to start. I think everybody put a lot of thought into this. I am grateful to have a community that cares.

I think it'll still feel like City Park with the trees. I love that they're trying [Music] Heat. Heat. Heat. [Music] to tonight's planning and housing commission meeting. Commissioner Alexander will lead us in the pledge of allegiance

to the flag of the United States of America to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. I would like to call this meeting to order. Individuals wishing to address the Planning and Housing Commission are requested to complete a speaker card and deliver to the secretary prior to the items being heard by the commission. Please observe a threeminut time limit for communications once called upon to speak. Please state your name and city of residents for the record. Moving to meeting minutes. Approval for minutes for the planning and housing commission meeting for June 23rd, 2025. Miss Capia, are there any speaker cards from the public for the meeting minutes? No. Chair Longwell. Thank you. Do we have a motion? Move to approve. I'll second.

We have a motion made by Commissioner Alexander and a second made by Commissioner Cuin. Commissioner Vernon, can I have your voice vote? Yes.

Thank you. Thank you. Um, communications from the public. This portion of the agenda is intended for general public comment on items within the commission's jurisdiction that are not listed elsewhere on the agenda. Please note that state law prohibits the planning and housing commission from discussing or taking action on these items. Please observe a threeminut time limit for comments. Miss Capia, are there any speaker cards from the public?

No, chair. Thank you. Moving to the consent calendar. There's one item on the consent calendar. Consent items are not heard as a public hearing and can be approved without discussion. Do any commissioners have questions or otherwise wish to pull the item from the consent calendar?

Chair, I don't have any questions, but I did want to report out the original presentation public hearing was made and I had to recuse myself due to employment. However, uh legal advised that I could participate with this one. I did because of my absence on the original, I submitted questions to the um uh regarding the staff report uh regarding uh the loan process and funding sources and the ratio of the unit sizes and what factors go into determining those. I was provided answers and clarity so I have a better understanding. That's all. Oh, my report. U Miss Capia, did we receive a request from the public to discuss any consent calendar items? No, chair. Thank you.

And I was wondering is is it possible to have the report um without pulling the item? Um or or can we Yeah, I think we have to pull it. Yes, we would have to pull it. Okay. Uh because I I kind of would like to hear this the report that was prepared for this. Okay. Um, who would present? Miss. Oh, perfect. Miss Roer. Okay. So, we'll go ahead and pull that and hear the presentation from Miss Roer.

Good evening, commissioners. It's an honor to be here. I'm super excited about this project. I had the privilege of uh working with the staff who originally worked on this because the project has two component. The land, the five acres has two components. One is the 115 units of multif family affordable housing. That's the item that is before you tonight. There's also uh 25 permanent supportive housing units is not part of um the item before you tonight, but just so you can have the whole perspective. I believe back in June when the item went before your uh commission for the approval of the disposition of the property, it was showing you both pieces. But basically where we are tonight, I'd really like to uh commend and applaud CNC Development the in terms of the progress that they have made and securing financing to support this project. They were successful in securing $40 million in tax credit financing. It is an extremely competitive market and and some of the things that help developers like CNC to be successful in securing tax credit financing is to have investments um subsidies um and investments from local government both cities and counties and we have that which I can tell you about and that's some of the reasons why we're here before you tonight. when you go through the process of securing tax credit financing and some of the components of the funding sources change sometimes the um the DDA the disposition and development agreement needs to be tweaked a little bit. This is very common in the affordable housing industry. And so just to give you some perspective, uh CNC had originally secured I believe 13 plus million or was it 14 million?

13 and a half million in greenhouse gas funds to support the project and the EPA clawed those funds back. So, uh, myself and, um, Todd and the team from CNC Development had the opportunity to meet with Supervisor Spiegel and the staff from Housing and Workforce Solutions. And they were amazing to come to the table and figure out how to be able to um provide financing that would fill the gap, not trigger prevailing wage, and help us to not lose the tax credits. when uh tax credit financing uh when a notice is issued, there's a time clock that's ticking. I think it's 180 days, isn't it? That you have to do, you have to complete certain milestones. So, to have the county come through and save the day was absolutely wonderful. And I can tell you, I wear a couple of different hats in the city. The county has been amazing partners with the city of Corona. And this is just one more example where they are coming in with uh $4 million in GAP financing as well as eight projectbased vouchers that help to cash flow the project. So some of the tweaks that we're making to the DDA have to do with things like the city gets uh residual receipts on our uh our loans. What that means is when the project as um the units are leased and the rents are collected, the developer pays bills, the property management pays bills, and if there's any money left over, then it's called residual receipts and the city would get paid depending upon what the cash flow is. Residual receipts receipts can fluctuate. what we had to do um because the county was our hero and saved the day for the gap financing is that we we split the residual receipts. So it might take a little we might get less in terms of residual receipts payments but I want to assure

you that the loans are due in 55 years. There is a balloon payment so the city's not at risk of not getting our money. It just means it might take a little bit longer. This again is very common. The other thing that happened was uh HUD had a little rounding um in our favor where they gave us $2,000 more dollars of home ARP which basically translated to $1,700 more dollars in funds for the project. And we have to list the actual cents. So you'll see there's cents listed. HUD wants it that way for the IDIS system. So, uh, it we we had to make some of those changes. Also, um, you might want to know, um, CNC Development was instrumental in negotiating with RTCT, RTC. Am I saying it right?

RTC RTC.

Yes. For the purchase of the property. Um, and back then, I think it it we were able to purchase it for $2 million. And since then, the property has appreciated. So, uh, the city is getting our land loan is what originally was $4 million, but we did the CNC did a recent appraisal, so it went up by $30,000 or $4 million $30,000. So, that is another one of the tweaks. The other thing that we're doing at the request of the investors is slightly tweaking the subordination terms. And what I would like to say to you is that the subordination terms that are being requested by the investors, the attorneys of the investors are nothing different than what we did on previous CNC development projects. I believe the Sixth Street project is very close. So, it's really hearkening back to city policy before regarding subordination terms. and our um city manager, the way that the DDA was constructed, he had administrative authority to make uh all these little changes that we're talking about. The only thing that's different for a policy approval is really just the subordination terms. And again, we're hearkening back to something that the city did before. So that's there's other little, you know, things that are outlined in the staff report, but those are really the major reasons why we're here before you. And I know you all know as uh commissioners how important it is for the city to be able to meet its reena obligations and not just numbers because I think you all believe in transformation and quality of life in the city of Corona. And these units are going to support families at 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 area median income. And that's

important because we want to be able to provide affordable housing to families at various income levels. And there uh so it's I'm super excited about this project. Also too, I will let you know that 20 of the 115 units have a preference for at risk and homeless families. So again, integration um of our whole system of services when we're looking at trying to have quality of life and affordable housing opportunities for the residents in the city of Corona. Perfect. Thank you so much. Um do any commissioners have questions for staff?

I don't have any questions and my questions previously submitted had nothing to do with uh questioning the project. it was more or less a greater understanding since I missed out originally. So, thank you very much for all your hard work and investing in the city. Thank you.

I just wanted to say thank you as well. We've I I think those of us who were um part of that uh item were all pretty pretty happy with it and we were excited that uh that this was happening in the city. So, we thank you and the others who worked on it for your work. Thanks. Well, I just really want to say hats off to CNC Development. You know, I had a previous life life working for the county of Orange and you know, they are a very well-known developer in many different counties. They do an amazing job and they are a great partner with the city. They have a track record as you well know with other developments and I just can't say enough because not every developer is successful in getting tax credit financing. It's very difficult uh business to be in and they make it look easy, but it is tough. So, we're really fortunate to have them. So, I just want to say thank you to Todd and the CNC team.

Thank Thank you, Karen. And and to jump in quickly. We're excited to be here tonight. We're excited to continue our partnership with the city. Uh as Karen had mentioned, there's a a shot clock that goes off once we get the tax credit allocation, which is which is wonderful news, but uh puts pressure on the closing. So our our target date on the project is closing at the beginning of October and looking to to be out there starting to turn dirt and and everything here towards the end of the year. So appreciate your time this evening. Any other questions? Happy to answer. Thank you. That progress is great to hear. Exciting.

And can I say one other fun little fact? Um I have been in uh government for 40 years, but out of all my years, I never got to do a planning commission agenda staff report. So, I just want to thank Joanne for the opportunity to do something I've never done before. Well, so it's good that you're able to present. Chair, I do have a question. Yeah, absolutely. Go right ahead. Um, you talked about the county of Riverside uh receipt loan and then also the eight section H vouchers. Is that are those vouchers something that are guaranteed uh for perpetuity of the project or is there a time limit that the county

20ear program with options to renew for another 20 I think. Yeah, it's common for to see the renewal but it's a a helpful piece and the fact that it's a firm commitment and at least for 20 years what that means is the permanent lender actually allows you to underwrite debt to it because of that certainty. It's like almost 7% of the development is guaranteed funding. Yes. Yeah. 20 years. Wow. That's that is pretty substantial then.

Yes. And they were very kind in being strategic with us so as not to trigger prevailing wage to which would increase the cost of the project. So when CNC negotiated with the county, they didn't have to solve for that 13.5 million. They could solve for less by not having to trigger prevailing wage. Do you think the other thing that's important that makes the distinction project based vouchers stay with the project? um it's like section 8 voucher, but with the housing choice voucher program, when the tenant moves, the the voucher goes with them. That's not the case.

It basically stays with the project. And so there's a process that you go through in partnership with the county to make the referral um to then have the client evaluated to make sure that they meet the income requirements. They're pretty strict. Project based vouchers are tied to 30% and below area median income. So, uh, yes. Yeah. Perfect. Great. Thank you. Any other questions? No. Um, Miss Capia, did we receive any speaker cards or written comments um from the public on this item? No, chair.

Um, if a member of the public would like to speak, please come to the podium. Are there any other questions or comments from my colleagues? Uh, no. I'll go ahead and make a motion to approve the consent calendar. Perfect. Thank you so much. Uh, I'll second. Motion was made by Commissioner Alexander and seconded by Commissioner Woody. And Commissioner Vernon, your voice vote, please. Thank you.

Perfect. Um, moving to public hearings. Um, ZTA 2025-00001, a zone text amendment for title 17 of the Corona Municipal Code to amend chapter 17.74 to establish regulations for feather flags and chapter 17.10 1000 to amend the review process for projects that require both an architectural review and a conditional use permit. The applicant is the city of Corona. Uh Miss Kleta, planning and development director will present the item. Yes.

What about now? There we go. It's on. Okay. So, as you indicated, we do have a zone text amendment this evening to our zoning code. It's going to affect two chapters. One is going to be our sign ordinance in chapter 1774 and the other is to our architectural review ordinance in chapter 17.100. Uh what we plan to do here tonight is to establish regulations for feather flags under the signed ordinance and to also establish uh review procedures in our architectural review ordinance which is very similar to our precise plan process. So, what we're really trying to do there is just establish some consistency. I first want to go over the changes being made to the signed ordinance. Uh, this was initiated by the city council in June of this year, and the council wanted us to create objective standards for using feather flags. Currently, we allow feather flags by a temporary use permit, which is used for a variety of other temporary types of events as well as advertising um models. Right now you can get 120 days in a calendar year and under policy we allow 10 feather flags per property. So with the proposed amendment we're creating actually objective standards for feather flags like we do other sign criteria like banners for example. So we are providing a definition this evening uh for feather flags and that was given to you in your staff report. But as it indicates, it's a temporary vertical advertising banner that's made from textile or nylon material, and it's supported by a single uh pole that's temporarily staked into the ground. And we do have several criteria in order to get a feather flag permit. I'm not going to go over all of them, but I do want to highlight some of them and I can address any questions for you. Um, we will be limiting uh feather flags to five per property or commercial center. And this

will be for commercial and industrial businesses and for multiple dwelling rentals that contain 50 or more units, commonly known as apartments, but we have to use terminology that's consistent with our definitions in our zoning court. Um, we are going to be limiting the number of days to display to 60 days in a calendar year. So that's half of what we currently allow now. And it will be limited to advertising special events, promotions, or grand openings. And once again, we're just going to keep reinforcing that these types of flags are not allowed within our public rightway, that they have to be on private property. The next amendment has to do with adding text to our architectural review ordinance. Architectural review existed long before our precise plan application, and architectural review was only applicable to properties that front, side, or back onto Grand Boulevard. It was a way to look at architectural review within the historic district. And then in the late 1990s, um I think early 2000, we adopted an ordinance for precise plan, which basically reviews all of the architecture and site plan of commercial projects as well as residential projects. What we have in the precise plan ordinance, however, if you have a project that requires a conditional use permit and a precise plan, the ordinance says it will yield to the CUP because you're going to cover everything under the CUP anyway. So, you don't have redundant applications. Our ordinance does not say that for architectural review. So, we're trying to also provide that same requirement here. whether you have a conditional use permit and it also requires architectural review, you would yield to the CUP because it covers all the objective standards with respect to architecture and site plan. And what it does, it eliminates the redundancy in applications. As this commission knows, you see multiple applications for one project. What this does, it reduces the

number of applications for reviewing the same material. So, we're just adding that same language that we have in the precise plan to the architectural review ordinance. And the what we're doing asking you this evening is to recommend approval of this amendment to the city council. So I can address any questions that you have. Do any commissioners have questions for staff? I I do. Go ahead.

Please. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Ketta. I I have no problem with the um the zone texture for adding for the cup and and reducing it down to one. That's no problem at all. It's the feather flags and uh the understanding that we're trying to reduce the the clutter or multiple layers of advertising which can be uh more eye pollution than actual um advertising. Uh it's not uncommon to see a feather flag in front multiple feather flags in front of a business and or a shopping center and then there's the flags that hang from the uh in front of the then the windows um are filled with signs and then there might be a monument at the streets etc. So uh I I get that. I I would like to ask a couple questions regarding specifics. for example, uh up by Green River near Ralph's, uh the center has less than 30 businesses, let's say. Um and for example, today there were uh probably five or six feather signs at the street um on the private property. Um some were faded and but it was all the same. only one of those 28 stores had mult uh the majority of the flags under this uh and it it just said the one thing that was duplicated in front of the business uh what they offer. So if I'm reading it correctly, it should advertise just those three things. Grand opening, which didn't apply, wasn't a special sale or event. It just put the words of what services were offered. So under this that business would no longer be able to put those out there.

It's more restrictive now. So the temporary use permit does not limit what the flag can be used for. And the council was having concern with that. So we are now coming in and creating these objective standards. Similar to our banner permit, you're going to have to tell us what it says and it cannot be used to augment signage. So, if it says Joe's Pizza and then you have a feather flag that says Joe's Pizza, that's not allowed. It has to be we're doing two pizzas for $15 this month or something like that. It has to be something promotional. It cannot be used to augment signage.

For example, for a liquor store, it can't just say beer on the feather flag because it's already stated beer, it's a liquor store, etc. A free beer would be very nice. I can see that for 60 days. Um but my other question is uh sometimes for example going up on Main Street up by Pep Boys that would be considered a center and there's about 13 businesses over there and way in the corner there's a small suite of that business and they have a feather flag in front. The name of the business isn't necessarily on a marquee over the entrance to the business, but the feather flag just states what the business type is in one word. That would not be allowed. Correct.

That's correct. Because the window dressings say what the service is. Correct. Um the other question is just for clarification it doesn't matter if multiple businesses are on a property uh which is the wording uh for example um if they share the number of flags maybe four and two it doesn't matter it it's already stated what their business is conducting auto service or whatever it is. So, would they be able to advertise, they would only be able to advertise a tire sale for that week or a month or whatnot. Is that correct?

That's correct. Or any special service. My question is, for example, for Ralph's up there on Green River, if one of the stores, and I don't want to name any, but if one of the stores had a special, could they put up all five of those flags for theirs, or could they put up one flag for their maybe it's a grand opening, I don't know.

So, that is going to rest on the property owner or the management company. So the way our permit will be drafted, the owner is going to have to take responsibility of this. They are going to have to be responsible on how they are going to dish out the feather flags. Just like they are responsible on who gets advertised on a pylon sign. A pylon sign limits you to three or four tenants. Not everybody can be on the pylon sign. The property owner or the management company makes that decision. If the property owner does not want to make this decision, they may not allow it. But we are requiring owner authorization on this permit. Um stating that they acknowledge that the center or the property is limited to five flags. So however they want to disperse that is going to be up to them. They have to take responsibility of that. So that is something that we are already working on on our end if this ordinate gets passed making sure we get their authorization.

My other question is with the cost of the feather flags. I mean, currently, isn't it the business that gets the flags produced and and puts them up and so it doesn't involve it doesn't involve the property management. Correct.

It doesn't because but this permit is going to require their authorization that they can actually put this on their property. Most management companies, I'm going to do the crossings is a great example. They don't allow this. They're like, "Nope, this is your storefront. You get this." They do not allow you to go and deface the property in any other way. They have the right to do that. They are the ones maintaining the property. If you have Starbucks, which may be on its own parcel and is on its own, and they decide they want to put one out, then that's up to them. They're just managing themselves. But when you have multiple tenants in a commercial center that's managed by a company and the property is maintained by a company, they get that say as to whether or not they're going to allow tenants to put things out on that property.

I think there's a fine balance between giving the businesses the means to properly advertise and be successful uh but they can't solely rely on uh these temporary feather flags. And I think uh much like the temporary signs in the rideway when there was abuse of it, that's when it came to the forefront. And I imagine this is the same. Um my question for the property owners, management companies or multiple tenants, how are they being advised? How how are they being notified that there if this gets adopted there's a change? Um because it'll change the way they do business.

Yeah. So it'll be changed. They're probably going to get word when one of their tenants comes to pull a permit and they see it needs to be authorized by the property owner is how they're going to get word of that. Okay, that was one example. Um, bear with me just a second, please. So, I have a question. Go ahead. So, we're not uh saying that this is going to go directly to the property owner. It's only when a business why would it not just be simplified and go straight to the owner of the building the grounds

because you don't know which property if I run a business in a commercial center and I decide I want to purchase a feather flag I'm the one that has to seek to do that where my neighboring business may not want to do that. So it always rests on the business as to what type of advertising they want to do. Whether they want to do it in the newspaper, whether they want to do it in social media, whether they want to purchase a feather flag. A property owner is not going to provide that. It's the business decision. If it's allowed, that is up to the property owner whether or not they are allowed to do that. And we deal with a lot of management companies. Some don't allow rooftop balloons. So the tenants know in their lease, you can't have rooftop balloons. you can't have this. So, it's pretty much in their lease agreement what they can and cannot have.

So, that brings up a question. After driving by today, there was a uh unnamed uh fast food place and they had flags on top of their roof. Mhm. Like seven of them. Is that something that they can resort to unless it's identified in their Yeah. So, our ordinance does allow you to have those if they're in slots. They're the little flags and we do have a limit on those. So, if that is already I think Jack in the Box was the one that started those. I didn't name them. I didn't

Oh my gosh. Are they still doing it? That's like 15 years ago. Yes. And that's what um Yes. And that's because they they set it up that way. If you go on their parapit, they actually have the slots for the flags to be in there. Yeah. So my other example uh where that business was in PTOAC Square over by Pep Boys and they had it wasn't uh on the property line. It wasn't on the street. It was right in front of their retail door. It's still a feather flag. It's still advertising. It's still uh mirrored what was already in the windows and on top. That would not be allowed. Nope.

Nope. Um, I guess I could ask a question. Some of them that become they're not necessarily torn or ripped, but they're faded. I noticed that the wording was in part of your write up for the um in the red lettering. Uh, it was on the top part, but it wasn't in this part. Uh it said um under D you renamed a lettered it D for permitted by right but up top it didn't it just says good condition maintaining good condition not torn or ragged maybe we could add faded in there.

So this is and this is the issue. So when it comes to the code compliance officer in the field, it gets very subjective and we have to really make it not easy but the ability for them to a force without it being subjective. You can easily gauge ragged or torn. It's easy to define. But if something starts to fade then it becomes well what level of fading is allowed? you could still read it and that's where the the dynamic between the person who owns the flag and code enforcement because you don't have a level of what that is. So from our perspective when we write these ordinances we also have to write them in the manner that we know can be enforced objectively.

But it's already in your wording down here torn or faded subject to the following conditions. That's in letter D in your writing. Okay. Then if that Yeah. So on this one on this section 1774080 C the way the actual language is is that we're only going to do uh shall not be torn or ragged. Okay. I was just curious why it wasn't uh mirrored up on number six. Just food for

I don't have faded on. I don't know where you're looking at. Uh it says permitted by right right under uh C7 when it talks about the uh corner cutoff areas described in 17750 and then in black lettering uh permitted by right for oh that is a different section. Those are for outdoor sales correct related to automobiles recreational vehicles. This is not this is separate from the subsection above. So it can be treated differently. Okay. this has a whole other set of condition when it comes to car sales and all of that. So that's an older language for a completely different topic.

Um my other question was uh could you explain the thoughts of the uh starting at 50 units dwelling units uh for example this would not apply to that new uh sen or family complex at what was it and Sherman that we approved that's being built over there. they could advertise a grand opening, but they're less than 50 units. Would they not be able to get a feather?

Yeah. So, we the the thought there, we wanted to keep it out of residential neighborhoods as much as possible and you do have multiple family units that are deep in residential zones. But when you have larger apartment complexes, let's say, they're mostly on larger streets like collectors. For example, along Magnolia, you have several apartments that are more than 50. On McKinley and Prominade, we don't want to get into a situation where you start having duplexes or small apartment communities and you got single family across the street and they're in an infill neighborhood and they're having to look at feather flags. So, we're still trying to maintain the aesthetics in residential neighborhoods, but we understand apartments are a commercial industry, but those apartments are located along collectors and sometime majors where single family zones are not. So, knowing that the larger you are, the less likely you are to be in an infill residential neighborhood,

which makes sense. Thank you. Uh, just one more and then I'll turn it over my colleagues. is remember when we did the I remember when we did the uh consideration for temporary uh signs in the parkway and it was brought up I believe it was for open house versus any of the other type of signs that were there and we were advised that we could not restrict content or freedom of speech but time place and manner wasn't or those the three of them. Yes. So by us restricting what these feather signs say. Are we not crossing that line or how does that work?

No, because this is based on a topic area. So it's advertising you can do a special sale event or grand opening. We don't know what that could say. We're not saying it specifically has to say grand opening or this, but as long as it falls within that definition, that is okay. Thank you for that. No more. Yeah. Any other questions? Yeah, I I have some questions. So, yeah, I was kind of concerned about the the restriction of speech in that in that point, too. Is that something that the city attorneys reviewed?

Yes. And our banner permit, it has the very exact same language. It's not to augment signage. Um, and specifically, our attorney put in there, it shall not augment other signage. So we can state what these temporary devices are used for in terms of what the topic area should be. Mhm. Okay. Which falls under manner of usage. Okay. Thank you.

Um so I I just want to make sure I was clear and understanding. um the current the current um the the current uh or ordinance or code or whatever is that you was not specifically for feathered flags but for for what type of um signs? So it said advertising such as uh whirly gigs, the inflatable kind of you know device. So it had an example of pennants. So this actually was similar to so back when we were having to address this you know population of feather flags. It technically fell into that category. So it was not really regulated by object objective standards over time. We're we're now seeing like we probably need to tighten this a little bit because it was a little too loose.

But but did I see it correctly that currently they could have 10 flags per per premise? We did that by policy. We did that by policy. We had to establish a policy for it under the TUP. Okay. And so currently they can have 10 10 flags up to was it more more days a year? 100 days a year. 120 120 days. So this sort of cuts it in half if I'm kind of doing it correctly. Um

so I guess I'm I'm going to piggyback on on what Commissioner Alexander brought up. um you know for like yeah the the shopping center she mentioned on Green River is definitely one of the one of the um more egregious violators uh with signs that are not necessarily kept up like the faded thing I think um and and and the signs are less likely to be faded if they're only up a total of you know 60 days a year as opposed to 360 days a year. But um I mean it's I understand your point about trying to keep it um you know very clear and objective for the

compliance code compliance officers. Um but um I mean is there I I think there's I I think it would be beneficial to um you know the the residents of the cities and and to even the the um property owners and um businesses if there was a way to to a standard um you know even if it's something about that you know a a sign should not be a feather flag should not be unreasonably faded from the sun or something like that. I mean cuz cuz the the ones in question are are clearly by you know any reasonable uh individual would would say these don't look good. Um

yeah right right they don't look good. Uh they they don't reflect well on the business on the property. Um but you know the so so I that that would be my suggestion would be some way to do that. Um and then I guess I would want to hear a little more about the enforcement. So let's say that this because you you you have two types of property owners. You know, you mentioned the crossings and you know, obviously Castle and Cook is very um a big big business uh very reputable um but but then you have for example the the uh Green River property and um you know the property owners there are very handsoff and and I think not even locally um you know based um so more mo most likely let's say this gets implemented adopted by the council. Um what what would the process be? Say that property owner uh is unaware of it and doesn't apply for a permit. Um but but the flags that have been there for years remain there once this goes into effect.

So they would be subject to enforcement. So again, the property owner may not be the is not going to be the one pulling the permit. it's going to be the business and the business is not going to be able to get the permit unless they have owner's authorization. So, and if there are flags up, which there are flags up now that don't have a permit, they get called out by code enforcement and they're told to resolve it. So, they can come in and get a permit or they can take them down. So, you get both. You get some that take them down or you get others that come in and pull a permit. Did does the citation go to the business or to the property owner?

To both. So the notice of violation first goes to the business and it also goes to the property owner so they are aware we have an issue with one of your tenants. So yes, it is our ordinance does allow us to notify both the tenant and the owner

and and so then I guess there you know there would would not necessarily be noticing to property owners that this is something that the council's discussing. um you know like uh like we notice public hearings um for specific properties but citywide things there's not really specific noticing for people no it's just a newspaper ad. So, anybody who comes in, any business that is using these feather flags and when they come in to renew their permit or apply for a permit, they are going to be going, "Here's the new regulations."

No different when we pass other regulations. Sure. In the zoning code. Sure. And then um so the the picture right here behind me um of that flag being right in front of the um you know the door that was something like that was kind of mentioned I think in one of those questions. So is that an acceptable? Yeah it says sale. So if they have a sale going on that is that is what you're looking at and they have a and they have to decide if they are one of the businesses that are going to be using their 60 days for flags. It's they're gonna have to decide how they're going to use their flags.

So, and and and um but they just can't be placed basically for the in the public rideway or the corner areas. So, any other spot on the property, it's it's up to them and the property owner. Y Okay. So, if they want it near the curb or near the sidewalk or if they want it in front of their store, those are options that they have.

So, the sidewalk on private property is fine, but it like say it's again the the the Green River Center we've been talking about when that extends up to the public sidewalk along Green River, then that's not that would be out of out of uh out of line. Um but for confirmation and clarity, putting that sign up at the very front of your store still requires a permit and is still limited to the 60 days.

That's correct. And you know if it doesn't and again this is a example of like a storefront along a sidewalk. You don't know if that's right ofway or not but if that was a sidewalk in our ride ofway that would not be allowed because we would not allow the feather flags in the right of way. It has to be private property. And then okay how how long is a feather flag permit good for?

It's annual 60 days in a calendar year. So every year you have to apply for a new one. Okay. So then um you know if there's a shopping center with say 30 businesses um and the property owner doesn't really care what happens with it and you have five businesses who come and apply for it and then the sixth business comes to the city and says oh I want to put put feather flags up. they're going to be um denied uh because five other businesses on that property.

That is something the management company is going to have to decide because the permit will also require them to advertise the days that they are going to be having the feather flags up. So, you do not want it to run in conflict to where you may have, you know, multiple feather flags up at the same time. So they have to let us know what days they are going to be up for advertisement in the permit. Okay. So the so when they make a a when they apply for the permit at the beginning of a year or at whatever point during the year they have to know ahead of time. Yes. Yes.

Wow. That seems pretty pretty difficult. Um because you might not know you might not know when you want to hold a sale or or whatever. Our banner permits the same way. You have to let us know the dates ahead of time because I can I can see one let's say one of those businesses up there at Ralph saying this week we're going to have a sale on hamburger per pound or this week we're going to have a sale on you know haircuts or this you know so you could go through it rather quickly but once you put the dates in there you have that it ends and then there can only be four other feather flags in the complex tax not for that business. Is that correct or no?

It's however the property. You have to remember this is we're not going to be we're not going to manage this. I was going to say how does enforcement work?

No. The management company is going to have to decide how they want to manage this. If it gets too complicated for them, they may not allow it. It's going to we're putting the responsibility on them. This is their property. The property owner is going to be responsible. That's why the permits they have to sign an acknowledgement that they understand once code calls them they go okay we'll take care of it they kind of it's going to be a learning process for sure and it just like you know the Airbnbs for a year we had to monitor Airbnbs because we prohibited it and we had to buy a software program and we had to send out notifications. It's it's same thing with the signs in the public rightway. It was constant education. Our staff still educates out of city realators on this sign ordinance. Every weekend they're picking up signs. It's a constant reminder. But on private property, it's to be managed by the property owner. And when they know they're responsible for it and they know they could get a citation, they're quick. They're quick to they're quick to react.

I have a question more equitably distributing this. Right. So, I'll give you three examples. You'll have the Arco at Maine and Parkridge. They can have five signs themselves. Mhm. Then you go to um the Pet Boy Center where there's 10. They can have five for those 10 businesses. And then the Rodriggo to Betty Fay to like that whole. So, it just feels like bigger centers are going to get hit harder where individual tenants are going to have the freedom to be that clutter is still going to exist. So,

just for clarification though, the Arco isn't going to have a grand opening, right? They're not going to have Yeah, they will have sales. I mean, like I'm looking at it from my perspective. I know I've had them at like our product sales, that sort of thing.

Yeah. So, like I'll give you an example just from my world. You've got like EV chargers. So, a new thing that you put on your property, you'll advertise with a flutter flag and I can put five up. And I look at a center that has 30 or 40 retailers and it doesn't seem equitable in terms of supporting one business's sales to limiting the ability. And it it might just be it is what it is because you have to apply it. Um, but that's probably the part the part that I have the most heartburn with.

Yeah. I mean, I was kind of thinking about that, too, because um I mean, it would almost be better and give more flexibility for the for certain business owners or property owners and the businesses there. For example, yeah, one a center that has 30 different tenants. if maybe there could be a like a group, you know, the where the um and I understand Miss Claus's point about trying to make it so that the property owners are policing it or in control of it, but if if say the the Ralph Shopping Center that we talk about collectively had 300 flag days for all of its tenants to use, um where and so that you know not only five five um tenants that you know the the early birds who who get it. I mean and and and because there there are also centers that could be that have you know more 50 50 tons that be a a way to do it where it's based on square footage.

We we we it becomes more of a policing issue for us. We're going to you're going to be at the counter. This is permit is intended to be issued in 15 minutes for staff to go in there and to now have to do all this research to see what qualification they make. This becomes very ownorous. And I can give you an example. Banner permits are 50 square feet. Regardless if your storefront is 30 lineal feet or 100 lineal feet, you get a one banner at 50 square feet. Um it's supposed to be just a quick temporary advertising permit. So even on the banner permit, if you want to talk about equity, it's not there because you have store sizes that have different sizes of a storefront, but they're still limited to the same size banner for all.

So a smaller storefront, a 50 square foot banner would probably be more noticeable than a storefront that has 100 lineal feet. Well, in the spirit of this coming forward and limiting the eye clutter, I'd have a problem with Arco with five feather flags. They can have them. That's what it says. Yeah. So, I guess do we have any other questions so that we can get to chatting about it? I have a question about the archcom item when but we can I don't have any questions about the feather flag portion. Um, Miss Capia, do we have did we receive any speaker cards or written comments from the public on the item? No, chair.

Okay. Public hearing is now open. If you wish to speak, please come to the podium. Perfect. Uh, public hearing is now closed. Um, comments. I I'm with you. I uh She already left. Are you wanting to ask more questions? No. Okay. My question was going to be about the ARCOM item, but it's it's not that important. The what? the ARCOM architectural review committee. Oh, caught you. Well, I'm sure she would still answer the question about that.

You don't have to walk back down there. Um, was there an instant or instances that brought the architectural review committee item tonight? Um, or is it just on the list of items to clean up? I'm just curious why why this item? Why now? It it's a definitely a cleanup item. It was something we noticed. So, we wanted to institute the same practice. Sure. That's all that it was. Okay. And there's So, there's no like upcoming items that are attached to it that are being affected one way or the other.

No, we have a couple of uh applications that have come in for DPR and when you go back and look at it, um that's where we wanted to minimize the confusion. So, we're just trying to apply consistency. Okay. Thank you. And their findings are pretty much the same. The objective findings you make for architecture review are the same objective findings you make for a precise plan. So, um comments on either the architectural or signage or entertain a motion.

Um go ahead. Yeah, I I I guess I'm just I I don't know. I I feel like I I I understand the city's thinking and trying to craft it this way. I I just I wish there could be I I feel like there could be some tweaks to it. I just like we were talking about Arco having five signs. Um Okay. Actually, I I have another question then. So, um, for for Miss Ketta, if if say a business like that that's a single tenant, single property, um, when they when they if they got a feather flag permit, could they get one a permit for just one flag at that point and then later on sub submitted another application for a second or a Um or or do would they have to like say they didn't know the dates of of something?

They have to disclose to us when they apply for the permit how many flags they are going to have because again the property owner is authorizing the number of flags that they can have. So, if the property owner makes the decision like, I'm only going to let my tenants have one or I'm just going to let my tenants have give this tenant two, it's going to be up to them, but they have to put it on file with us because we put it in our permit tracking system. So, this is what code uses when they're out in the field. They actually check to see if someone has a permit and then it comes up and it tells them the quantity. So, that's how they check for that. So, if you have Joe's Pizza that was issued one flag and all of a sudden they go out there and they see three, they're going to go knock on his door and say, "You have a permit for one, so you need to go take the other two down."

But I I guess if you had a permit for one, and you think, "Oh, wow. I only wanted one, but this is working. It people are noticing it. I feel like our promotion is working. I would like to add a second to to get an even bigger effect." I mean, is there are people able to do that or they could amend it, but again, it's going to have to be with the property owner's authorization that they acknowledge that they've increased the number of flags for this tenant.

Because again, they're the ones managing their tenant. They manage the property, they manage their tenants. I guess was the did the council I I guess that the council went the direction of wanting to ban the temporary uh signs in the rideway. Did they did they discuss banning feather flags completely? No, the discussion was um not banning them but reducing the number that are allowed and reducing the number of days. And the recommendation we got was to, like you said, cut it in half, get it down to five feather flags into 60 days in a calendar year. They felt that that was appropriate.

But you you're there are other temporary types of signs that businesses can use. Is that what the banner sign is? Yes. Okay. That's attached to the building. That's different. These are not attached to the building. Right. I understand that. um just because we've talked about some of the challenges for staff for code, you know, both in issuing the permit and then in enforcing. So I that just makes me wonder if banning them entirely would be easier than you know trying to manage that.

I think as a retailer they bring value to the business. They genuinely do. I've used them. Um, I like the idea of the 60 days, um, because I think it it does its best to ensure that they aren't faded, aren't torn. Um, so I mean, I'm, as much as I would like it more equitable, I also can appreciate that we'd be creating a nightmare um, to monitor that. Um, so I kind of get I mean, I get it and I would agree with this.

I have another question, Miss Cla. So if for 60 days a property can have five feather flags and it doesn't regulate how far apart they are because I think that's part of the problem is too many in a close proximity especially if it's a a a small lot. Um, for example, today I was driving up Maine and there's on the west side is a a tire and wheel and then there's a a window tinting place and they had very small storefront on the street. Seven flags in a very short amount. I think in the spirit of this permit and reduction that visual clutter is something that we're trying to address. Is that not correct?

Yes. So technically they could apply for the permit, they could get five uh feathers for each of them and then for 60 days then for 305 days they're featherless. Is that correct? However they decide to use Yes. So they don't have to they could if they had a special sale and they really wanted to promo it, they could really saturate their area. But this constant feather flags 365 days will no longer be permitted. it. Exactly. And it depends on how they space it out. It doesn't have to be a consecutive 60 days. They can break it down,

which would lend itself to a special sale versus constantly advertising, repeating what's already on their windows and their marquee and their signage, right? All of that. Well, for me personally, I don't know that having it 60 days for each of those

is a grand openings. Yes. Let's give new businesses the uh the opportunity to get the word out and and have a good jump on their businesses. But for special sales and events, to me, 30 days is plenty. I don't I don't know how you feel about that, but um that's just my two cents. Well, I I can see that retailers, you know, might want to just have it up all of November and December, you know, if they were selling things that that people typically would buy for gifts. Um but um or I mean that's because that's the busiest time of year really for any retailer, even if um so I don't I don't know. But um

it sounds too staff intensive though.

Yeah. No, but yeah, I don't I I don't feel strongly about it either way. I do I do think the point about the flags being right next to each other um maybe is that something we could possibly add that any that multiple flags on uh on a property uh must be placed a certain distance apart from each other. You can under our old policy we had that they had to be spaced 15 feet apart. However, you know, the conversation at council was, you know, we don't want to make it overly difficult because code has to get out there and do measurements and all that stuff. Are they really going to have time to do that? How high? But you can. That is an objective standard. If you want to say the flags have to be spaced no closer than 20 feet or whatever, that is totally an ordinance uh regulation that you can add. Yes.

Well, I could see how that would definitely be a deterrence for putting up the number of flags at one time and that would cut down that would be in the spirit of the permit of the um initial request for this to be looked at. Um, and that way for that one example I gave, technically they could only put up three flags instead of the six flags.

Well, I'm thinking I I no one's addressed it well the question well enough for me, but we're not talking one business getting all the flags. We're saying if this is a a a strip mall and they have multiple businesses there, the owner, it's going to be on him. He's not going to let the tower place get all the the flags. So that really makes him regulate this thing. They It's not going to be what we're seeing this congestion right now. He's going to give the pizza place and the dry cleaner. He's going to give each of them a flag to space out the 60 days. He's not going to use all his flags on one tenant.

Or he'll take it first come first serve and take five and have it have a great day. Yeah. and then he'll get the ramifications from his businesses complaining and doing all that stuff. I don't know that they'll care to be honest. I mean, having worked with hundreds of landlords. I And if I were a landlord in a center, I would do first come, first serve, call it, sorry you didn't plan your year out better. That's literally how I would do it. This is more what my example was is there's only one business in the 50 ft of Main Street or two right near each other or on the back side. And of that 50 feet, there's seven flags within four, five feet.

It's a great It's a great point. And I think that personally, I would like to have some sort of distance between them because whether it is a small property like that or even say the the Ralph Shopping Center we keep talking about, you know, they're congested there. They're all put right next to each other in a small spot. Um and and um and so yeah, it's I think it would be better again for for the businesses if their sign is not next to two or three other signs get lost in the in the mix. I think the most we could ask for here is spacing. We can't start regulating what these do after that.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think that that makes sense. And I I would like to maybe come up with, you know, a reasonable spacing, you know, maybe maybe 50 ft apart. And I concur. I concur with that. Yeah. We can see the store. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and if staff's out there and they they just kind of eyeball it and they think, "Okay, yeah, that's that's probably 50 ft." You know, but Well, they're not going to eyeball it. If they're going to if they're going to tell them that they're not in compliance, they better be measuring. No, but I'm saying if if if they eyeball it and it looks fine, then then they move on. If they've got the permit, you know, they don't need to measure every single one unless it looks off, you know,

and a tenant starts to complain. But that's just going into the weeds. But just having even that it it's it's going to it's already reducing it by 50%. So, we're we're off to a good start, a great start. Um, do we have a motion? Uh, I'd like to I'd like to hear your uh your input from a business standpoint. I would be I mean as far as advertising the distance between flags

50 sounds high. Um I'll use my Corona example where I have like 300 feet on one street and 50 on another. But if you're looking at that Arco, they've got 20 feet to play with on either street. So they're they'll they can have two at that point then. which is

and you do it on frontage, right? So, I I don't care either way. I do think there's value in Flutter signs. I like the 60 days. I can appreciate that we don't like them all cluttered, but I hope that your retailer is looking at what's the most visible part of this and likely it's at the entrance where you're sitting looking at the signs making your purchasing decision. It's usually where you're going to put them. Can you get behind 30 feet? I can get behind 30. Yeah. Yeah. I think 30 is fine. I think that's about the distance between me and Miss Kleta here. So, you could say something like clustered in no more than a distancing of 20 ft.

No, I like 30. I I just think uh if if the whole idea is to less density than approximately 30 feet because you don't want some technician out there having to earlier point how do I measure 30 ft. Well, it wouldn't be them measuring. It's the property manager managing it as you said. So, if it's down in a document, uh it's up to them and then I'm okay with 30. I'll just leave it at that. Yeah, they'll measure it. If it says the flags have to be spaced uh at least 30 feet apart, they'll make sure they're 30 feet apart. And the ones that clearly look 50, they're not going to bother. Right. Right.

Okay. Um do we have a motion for ZTA 200025-00001 with the addition of that distance between flags no closer than 30 feet? I move.

And I second. We have a motion made by Commissioner Alexander and seconded by Commissioner Vernon. Perfect. Uh, moving to written communications. Has the Planning and Housing Commission secretary received any written communication from persons providing information or seeking action by the Planning and Housing Commission? No, Chair Longwell.

Thank you. Administrative reports. Anything to report, Director Kleta? The only thing I have to report is that um the Montto Leivo project that we reviewed on June 23rd where it was denied by the planning commission, they did submit an appeal and that appeal went to the city council last week and the city council decided to uphold the appeal. Uh I'm sorry, decided to uphold the denial of the application. I panicked for a second.

I know. I'm sorry. And so it Yeah, it was a very long night. Um, we did not hear that public hearing until 11:00 that night. Um, so we had a six-hour city council meeting and the residents that were here at this meeting did stay that entire time to get up and speak again. So that's where we're currently at on this project. Do they have another do they have any other recourse? They can do they can look at taking matters into their own hands civily. So we will wait to see if they file anything with the city. Do they have a timeline within a year or

that? I don't. That's this. We were talking about that earlier there. I don't know what the statute of limitation is, but our city attorney would be responding to any complaint and then letting us know if one is filed. Um, perfect. Good news. Um, commissioner report and comments. Do any members of the planning commission have any matters to discuss? I do. Ready?

Yeah. So, I recently was a um a member of the group that was affected by the Green River fire, and I wanted to go on record to state how amazing the city of Corona fire department and police department uh the professionalism, the response time. Um it's it was amazing just and even the response from from other Calire and others, but the rapid response to that fire directly in the neighborhood was just amazing. And uh on behalf of the neighbors that I live with and myself, I want to thank uh both those agencies for that. Were you evacuated? Yes, we were. And I was not home. Glad everyone's safe. Yeah.

Yeah. Um perfect. Um,

I did want to I did want to bring up uh Arasmus Clutter, you know, driving around and and especially it's on our agenda for the feather flags and noticing other things, other type of uh uh visual clutter. Um, if one is to drive down the street and you see not the earlier I said the layers of the advertising, the banners hanging from the marquee in addition to the marquee of their business, the uh stickers or the posters in the windows, the feathers, the uh tea bar, the sandwich signs, all of that, which adds to more than just the business name or uh now if if uh approved by council, the uh feather permits. Does the city have any recourse to uh um I mean especially with all the attention with revitalizing downtown to take this further as far as the banners and the what are the regulations or the uh for a business to cover their windows and ads for example? How how does one address that type of clutter? I mean they're obviously their own business. They have a right to advertise uh but how much advertising or or do is that hands-off type?

So they can actually do window coverings up to 25% of their storefront. So we do have provisions for that. So they are allowed that. We don't regulate, you know, so that's where they can advertise, you know, services they sell or products that they sell. I do want to let you know that our downtown specific plan prohibits feather flags. That is one item that we did prohibit in the downtown because we did not want our street front to be uh cluttered with feather flex. So it is prohibited in the downtown. So you're talking about sixth from Lincoln all the way across past Ramona that whole and the circle.

I think it I want to try to remember if we said for the downtown properties which is the central core within the grand boulevard. I'm trying to remember, but we did want to keep it out of the downtown core

because there is discussion that the sixth street itself could be um uh could be uh have a a more appealing visual if you will and I would think that um the businesses along there uh could benefit from the look that's consistent with whatever is the standards are going to be uh implemented. So, so I guess I was just going to ask, so you said that's part of the downtown specific plan. Does it use the same verbiage as feathered flags? So, so it existed there, but not in the other part of this code.

Yeah, because if you recall, we just amended that plan last year. So, when we were looking at all of this, um, we immediately thought, do we want to limit that along the parkways and that kind of stuff? So, we took the initiative to go ahead and prohibit it. Thank you. Perfect. Um, the next meeting for Planning and Housing Commission is scheduled for Monday, August 25th, 2025. This meeting is adjourned.