Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I have retired actually in November. I think a man is sure it was a long term. Whatever it is. All right. We will call to order the city of Conway Planning Commission's April 20th, 2026 meeting. Alexander, if you'll call the role for me, please. Absolutely. Ethan Reed, present. Alexander Bainy, I'm present. Mark Ferguson, present. Jensen Tilki, Brooks Davis here, Kina Hagood here, Cassidy Cook here, Kevin Gabriel

here, Lorie Quinn, and Grace Reigns here. And we have a quorum. And we will start with taking a motion to approve the minutes from our February 17th, 2026 meeting. Motion to approve. Second. All in favor? I. Any opposed? All right. All right. We'll move to item number one, which is uh subdivision review. This is not a public hearing item. It is a waiver request to plat a lot with a depth that is four times the lots widths.

All right. The location is 3075 Orchard Crest Drive. The site area is 2.37 acres. As was stated, the request is from the subdivision ordinance regulations that state that a lot shall not be four times as deep as it is wide. But due to the size of the lot, which is lot 4B, as well as the topographical constraints, the applicant has requested to have the lot platted in that configuration. Um because it is such a large lot, there will be no other waiverss or variances necessary in order to accommodate a single family residence on this R1 lot. Um there were no recommended conditions as everything on this plat has been approved by all reviewing reviewing parties and we are just waiting for um if this waiver is approved by the planning commission.

Any questions? Right. Is the applicant here to speak? If you could please state your name and address for the record. Sir, my name is Patrick Hakeman. I'm with the Tyler Group representing Mr. Shaw. I'm from 240 Skyline Drive. We're here recommending this project be approved based on the topography of the site. Everything basically past the hill is unbuildable and will be treated as such. Any questions for the applicant? All right. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Commissioners, I make a motion to approve. Second. All in favor? I any opposed?

Right. And let the record show that Jensen Tilki is here and present. All right. We'll move into our public hearing items. The Conway Planning Commission makes recommendations to the city council on public hearing items. Items reviewed on this agenda will be considered by the city council as early as April 28th, 2026. Items not approved by the planning commission may be appealed to the city council within 30 days of the date of denial. And for all public hearing items, we will have applicants speak in favor. The first applicant uh will get 10 minutes and subsequent applica uh speakers will get three minutes. If you are with a group, we ask that you consolidate your comments and and send a representative with with that group. And then the same will be for those in opposition. And the first speaker will get 10 minutes and all subsequent speakers will get three minutes. All right, we'll start with our first item which is a reszone property at 2270 Rosemary from R1 to R2.

Hello everyone. So tonight's first reszone is at 2270 Rosemary Drive. It's lot 17 currently of Frank subdivision just on South Dawn again. Rosemary there. The portion to be reszoned is actually a portion of lot 17. It's a 0.92 acre of a 1.27 acre lot. Currently zoned R1 and the request is R2. Um all around the property is there's R1 and R2 zoning um to the east for the rest of the subdivision. It is a split zone subdivision. Their existing lot has nothing built on it except for a single family home on that northern portion that's not being reszoned. It's not in any overlay districts and the comprehensive plan does state single family for the area. If developed as intended by the uh the applicant, they could generate one extra duplex being built, which would be 14 trips a day. Traffic counts are 8,800 along South on at the Stone Down Creek Bridge. There are no flood FEMA hazard zones for the property and any all the utilities should be available on site. Rosemary Drive is a local residential and it does terminate at um the culde-sac there, so there's no intended future street improvements. the the applicant is intending to split a portion of lot 16 off uh and then merge lot 16 and 17 to create a third lot out of that subdivision as shown there. So the existing single family home would stay lot 17A and 16R would then both be our two lots and the intent would be to build a duplex along each one of those lots. Um like I said earlier, Frank's sub is an old subdivision plotted in the early 2000s. fire code is going to limit the amount of structures that can be built in the um subdivision which is 30 with what's existing which is 26 and two new structures it would be 28 so we would still be under the allowed structures built off of a single access point abuing land uses are all single family subdivisions and like I stated earlier the north half of this subdivision is R1 the south half is duplex R2 zonings it does align with the

comp plan and if they do get approval tonight and at council then the only thing that will be left will be to replplat and to construct those duplexes. Does anybody have any questions? Thank you. Thank you. Is the applicant here to speak in favor?

If you could say your name and address is a Bobby French, 1021 Front Street, uh representing Mr. Woodley. Uh she said it pretty good. I don't know if y'all got any questions. I'd be glad to answer any of them. Any questions? Applicant. Thank you. Thanks. Is there anyone else here to speak in favor of the request? Anyone to speak in opposition of the request? And name and address, please.

Yes. My name is Bobby Kelly. I live at 1320 Clarence Drive. Thank you for the opportunity to speak in opposition of this. And thank you to each and every one of you for the time and the effort that you volunteer in serving the people of Conway. Um my argument is simple. I just live directly behind it um under consideration and when I purchased my home there paid close attention to to the surroundings and to the zoning obviously and at that time it was zoned R1 and that that fact played a meaningful role in that decision to buy. Um, and I just believe that the current zoning is appropriate and will preserve the original intent of the of the subdivision and its expectations of the neighbors. And for that reason, I just ask that you guys maintain the current R1 zoning and deny this request. Thank you.

Any questions, commissioners? If not. Right. Thank you. Thank you. Is anyone else here to speak in opposition of the request? Seeing there are none, we'll bring it back into commission. Commissioners, I'll make a motion to approve as presented. We have a motion. Do we have a second? I'll second. Right. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Nay.

The motion passes. Right. All right, we'll move to our next item, which is a reszone property at 1355 Sherwood Lane from A1 to R2.

All right, next reszone is um y'all are probably used to the area. There's been some recent development out there. Um it's at 1355 Sherwood Lane, which is a part of Sherwood Estate subdivision, which is a very old subdivision that a lot of it hasn't been constructed as proposed when it was platted in the 60s. But the area we're talking about tonight is 9.85 acres. That's zoned A1. The requested zoning is R2. Around it, everything is zoned A1, which is also agricultural. There is nothing existing on lot 66, but an outbuilding. And that lot 66 is that northern tract. And lot 67 has a single family home with a bunch of outuildings. It's not located in any overlay zones. And the comprehensive plan does indicate it for agricultural use. Um, with the reszone R2, it's most likely going to be single or two family uses. um based off of acreage alone and ride ofway that would be 57 single family dwellings or 52 duplexes in the form of 26 actual structures. So if that was based off of traffic we would look at 538 trips a day or 374 depending on the the um the land use intended by the applicant. There's not a lot of traffic um pred projections in the area. There's 300 annual daily trips at Donald Ridge and McNut and but greater closer to the Clayton Homes development over by the Walmart on um Daveboard. The site is not located within any FEMA flood hazard zones. Utilities run along both the east and west sides of Sherwood Lane, but will have to be extended to the site or any future subdivision. Sherwood Lane um is a 50-foot platted rideway. when it was brought into the city in the 19 I think it was the 90s um it was plotted in the 60s and the rideway was dedicated but the streets were never constructed. So when we brought it into the city we did not accept it as a city street. So any improvements that have been made in recent months and years have been at the cost of the developer and that will continue with anybody who is developing along Sherwood Lane. Um and I did skip ahead a bit. So any extension for the subdivision along which you see Buckingham, it's actually Sherwood will

be at the cost of the developer and any internal subdivisions will have to go through the subdivision review process as well. The last thing I have to say is the um you'll see a culde-sac stub out there. That was on the city council meeting last week to get that ride ofway closed. It will be split between the Summit Church development to the south and then this developer to the north where they'll both use that um land at their own use. But the request for R2 is most likely going to be for duplex construction and that will have to go through subdivision review at a later date. Questions? Uh yeah, I got one. Sure. The I know it says R2 on there, but the letter from Bobby says R1. Is that just a typo?

I'll let Bobby explain that one, but basically we shouted R2 before they submitted and then they did submit and they accidentally said R1 and it was it was meant to be R2. It was just a clerical error. That was a But we are looking at R2 low low family residential development. Thank you. Other questions? Thank you. Is the applicant here to speak in favor of the request and the same drill even though it's a new item.

Bobby French Majest 1021 Front Street. Yes, we did. Uh I think when we originally sent some letters out, they had R1 on there. it got typo and uh we resent that out before the deadline. I think it's 15 days before so everybody should have gotten uh a new letter with it saying R2 and we reran it in the paper. So uh but uh I don't know if y'all got any questions be glad to answer. Any questions for the applicants? Right. Thanks Bobby. Thank you.

Is anyone else here to speak in favor of the request? Is there anyone here to speak in opposition of the request? Seeing there is none, we'll bring it back into commission. Commissioners, motion to approve. Do we have a second? I'll second it. All those in favor? I. Any opposed?

Motion passes. All right, we'll move to our next item, which is a reszone request for property at 2800 College Avenue from R1 to MF3. So, last resone tonight is over there near the Tucker Creek Trail along College Avenue. Um, you've probably drove by a million times, but it is a vacant piece of land. It's 0.71 acres zoned R1. The requested resoning is MF3, which is our highest density multif family zoning, which would be 24 units an acre. All around it, we have a mix of zonings from office to restricted use and um multif family. There's nothing currently on the lot. It's not located in any overlay district. and our comprehensive plan indicates it for office or trail use with the request for MF3 that's going to allow 24 units an acre. Um if you look later on through the some of the supplementary documents we added a large majority of the site falls within the flood way meaning no constructions for permanent structures. So you can do parking but when it comes to actual structures they're not going to be able to put anything in that portion of the property. But the remaining portion of the site is mostly in the flood plane where with proper flood plane permitting they can construct buildings in that site. So that really makes that 0.71 acres very tight and hard to develop at that point. So there's definitely some constraints there. Um I basically when doing the math for the units kind of considered if the owner who's proposing to buy it is the one to the north and they're going to merge them together that's going to obviously make more um units allowed on site. So, if you just were to develop that tiny little developable portion, you can get five units. If they merge it in with the apartment complex to the north, they could build up to 31 units and make it a part of that larger development. Um, whereas it sits, zoned R1, they don't technically have street frontage because of that easement from the Tucker Creek Trail and the future bridge project that's coming. So, it's really going to be a hard piece of property to develop. With this person coming in and developing it and merging it in, it will definitely make a

unusable, flooded piece of property u much more able to be used. Current traffic counts are 12,000 uh trips at College and Picwicket Drive. Like we spoke, there's a large portion of the property in both the floodway and PL flood plane. Any utilities will need to be coordinated with Conway Corporation and we did talk about that street um box drain under improvement like we see along the trails where they've been recently adding where trails now dip under the street so we don't have overpasses. So I think we've mostly covered everything. A lot of the area in the in in the vicinity was all historically zoned R1. Um, but just over the last 20 years has been upzoned. We see a lot of office uses there. Now we have the trail that runs through there. There's apartments. So, this is kind of the last R1 pulled out on this entire block north of College where we haven't seen anything happen and a lot of that's to do with the fact that the majority of it's undevelopable. But that is all I have for this property. Does anyone have any questions?

Yes. The developable the developable acreage ballpark. Hold on. I wrote all this on a post-it note in my office, but give me just a second. That's the flood 2 acres. One2 acres if you just looked at the portion that's not in the floodway or the flood plane. Thank you. Right.

Is the applicant here to speak in favor of this request? Bobby French, 1021 Front Street, uh here for Trinity Development. U their intent is to incorporate into the apartments up to the north and you know, replat that all together, you know, do similar to what the apartments are to the north is what they're wanting to do. Any questions for the applicant? Thanks, Bobby. Thank you. Anyone else here to speak in favor of this request? Is there anyone here to speak in opposition of this request?

Seeing there is none, we'll bring it back into commission. Motion to approve. Second. Motion and a second. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? All right. Motion passes. All right. Our next item is for a conditional use permit to allow religious activities in an A1 zoning district for property located at 2275 Victory Lane.

All right. First conditional use permit tonight is for religious activities at 2275 Victory Lane. It is a 5 acre parcel of land that currently has a,200 foot single family home and an outbuilding. Everything surrounding the site is zoned A1. We do have Caddy Corner to the northeast, some C2, which is a construction company, but everything else the further you get down Victory is very uh quiet kind of pastoral just a lot of farmland minus the church across the street. Um it is a part of the overlay district for the lower ridge corridor study which indicates this area in a large majority outside of the main pieces of land touching lower ridge road is going to be agricultural or single family which is what the comprehensive plan stays as well. So if um based off upon the applicant's intended use, they said on a most Sundays there'll be 70 to 80 attendees at service times which will generate around 93 trips on Sundays, fewer on weekend or during the week night services. There's no traffic um projections anywhere in the city uh in this vicinity. The closest one is the Don Owen Center which is 8,400. It's not located with any FEMA flood planes. It does appear that there is water and electricity running down the west side of Victory. There's no sewer on site, so they'll need to be aware of that and any coordination will need to happen with Conway Corporation. Victory Lane is a 60-oot collector that terminates just south of this site. Um, any additional ride of way via platting will have to be done at the time of site development, review, and platting. And there are no street improvements for Victory Lane at this time. So, the the the intent for the owner or the the applicant is for religious services for a church. The intent is to also take the existing single family home and convert it to an office for the church on site. Religious activities is not allowed by writing A1, but it is with a conditional use permit. It um this the area is very vacant. To the north, we have another church with the conditional use permit. To the east across Victory Lane, we have single

family residential behind this property. To the west, and to the south is another single family home. the the religious activities they would be able to fall under and do all of those uses permitted under that definition as the zoning code calls it out. And then basically depending upon what they proposed their days and hours and the size of the structure, they should be um a very minimal impact at the site for what they're proposing. But staff did write seven conditions for the commission to read and review. If you have any questions, I'm more than happy to address them. Commissioners Thank you. Thank you. Right. Is the applicant here to speak in favor of this request?

If you could please state your name and address for the record. David Avenue, King Conway. Victory Line. He says, "Oh, we an interpret. My name is Evelyn Sles. Uh his pastor David Fundes. We currently at 759 Avenue. That's our current church building. Our church got floated on 2018 in Bigalow. And since then, we've been looking for a building, a permanent building to stay and that's the reason that we submitted this uh conditional premier. Do you have

any questions? Any questions for the applicant? and we have the address and everything good. Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else here to speak in favor of this request? Is there anyone to speak in opposition of this request? There being none, we'll bring it back into commission. Commissioners, a motion to approve. Second. Motion and a second. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? The motion passes. All right. With with conditions. So, I motion to approve with conditions. I'm sorry.

Correct. Thanks, Mark. All right. Our next item is another conditional use permit to allow single family residential use in O2 zoning district for property located at 1511 Caldwell Street.

All right. So the applicant is requesting the applicant's house is in the O2 quiet office district which on a 0.13 acre property. It is surround. It's in a transitional area of the uh ASAP Robinson historic district where there's residential. It's basically transitioning from the C1 central business district into office then to residential and it's um surrounded by O2 to the east and west and then there's R2A to the north as well as the southwest and then the C1 to the north and then a little bit further on the other side of Falner uh C1 as well. It has this project has already gone through historic district commission for any improvements to the exterior which was approved and so after if the commission uh votes to approve the conditional use permit they will be able to then uh commence with any sort of construction. What the applicant would like to do is to utilize uh this current office space as a single family residence which is not allowed by right in the O2 quiet office district. And as a result, the projected impact would generate an estimate of nine vehicle trips per day, which is actually less than if it was to commence use as an office, which would generate uh 13 vehicle trips per typical workday. It is not in any FEMA flood hazard area. The if there's any sort of utilities that need to be uh either extended or upgraded, the applicant will need to coordinate with Conway Corp for that. Caldwell Street is it is on the southern side of Caldwell Street is a minor arterial and there are no current improvement plans known at this time by staff. Um the purpose of the O2 district is to provide conversion of older structures no longer useful, serviceable or

desirable in present use to office use. And in this instance, the applicant would actually like to revert it back to single family use. And the applicant will remodel the inside of the residence to better accommodate this um historic residential use. That's something um to also bring up is that it historically, as was noted in the Asa P. Robinson historic district survey. It was a single family residence. It's a 1923 bungalow folk Victorian style structure. So, they're just reverting something that was a house that then became an office and now they would like to utilize it again as a single family residence. So based upon the purpose of the O2 zoning district and the surrounding uh structures and uses on this area of Caldwell, uh single family use in this location does seem compatible with the area. And should the commission uh vote to approve the conditional use permit, there are four standard conditions for consideration and I'm available for any questions. Sure,

any questions? Thank you. Is the applicant here to speak in favor of the request? And if you could please state your name and address for the record.

JT Dixon, uh, 1200 Coington Way, apartment 708. Uh, we're just seeking to get a conditional use permit for this property. Um, it's the goal is to just revert it back to its original structure and use. Um, like she said, it got approved through the historic district commission. So, we're not really changing anything on the outside, just fixing some stuff up and just replacing the siding and stuff like that. So, it's a pretty simple project. And any issues with the four conditions that the staff has proposed there? Right. Any questions for the applicant? Yep. Thank you. Does anyone else here speak in favor of the request? Are there any to speak in opposition of the request? Seeing there is none, we'll bring it back to commission.

Motion to approve with conditions. We have a motion. Do we have a second? Seconded. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Right. Motion passes. Right. We'll move to our next item, which is to NX 5.34 acres located at 226 Sturgis Road to be zoned R1.

Hello. I think this is the first time you guys have seen me. So, this is a request for an annexation. Um, it's 5.3 acres. They are ultimately planning to do an R1 subdivision, so single family homes. But the location for this is um about half a mile south of the Meadows Office Park or Conway Behavioral Health Center if you're familiar with that. But the commissioners who were present last year will probably remember that we annexed a big piece of property directly to the south called Gold Creek Falls. So this is adjacent to that property to the north. Um like I mentioned, if approved, we are expecting a request for an R1 subdivision. The gross amount of homes that would be allowed in 5.3 acres is about 31 single family homes. Um, let's see. Gold Creek Falls subdivision to the south is currently in review with us, but if you can pull up the go one more, if you see right here up at the north, there is a stubout street. So, that right there is going to connect to this proposed annexation. So, the future subdivision will have a tie-in. Um, there will obviously be a significant increase in traffic at about 292 trips per day as opposed to the few trips per day that were there with the one home that was on the lot previously. Um, but the zoning is appropriate and consistent with the comprehensive plan and with the uses that are present in the area. So, we believe that this request is appropriate and we did receive an order from the county judge already approving it. We've got that. If you have any questions, I'm here. Okay.

Any questions? Right. Thank you. Is the applicant here to speak in favor of this request? Patrick here on behalf of the Tyler Group, 240 Skyline Drive. Thanks. You covered it quite well. Does anyone have any questions? Questions for the applicant? Right. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else to speak in favor of this request? Is there anyone to speak in opposition of this request? Seeing there is none, we'll bring it back into commission. Make a motion to approve. Second. Motion and a second. All those in favor?

I. Any opposed? Motion passes. Right. And that brings us to our next item, which is a PUD major modification denial appeal for property located at the Fountain Blue phase 2 development.

Good evening, commissioners. So, I know that we've thrown a lot of information at you on this thing. The half of our report is dedicated to this one thing. So, I'm going to try to condense it down just a little bit and not give you a complete history lesson. But just for a little bit of history, this development was born out of the central landing project. It was zoned as a PUD in 2014. King Air FBC, which is Mr. Burke Halter, um purchased the land to do a high-end multi-development uh multif family development. In 2018, when they submitted for the site development review, they submitted the entire site, the entire 18.7 acres. Um I I believe that they had some issues getting some water out there that took quite a bit of time to do. But once their STR was approved, it was approved for the entire site and they were free to start uh pulling permits and begin construction. So SDR approvals, as you know, expire after 2 years. And when they first started this, they I think they built seven or maybe eight buildings. and then sort of took a little bit of a hiatus. I think CO had a little something to do with that and some things like that. Um, but it it did cause the development to to kind of be phased at that point. So, the STR had expired and we required them to come back and do a further STR on what we're now calling phase two. It caused the whole thing to be phased. Um this the second SDR was approved in 2024 and the first pull permits were pulled in February of that year. So I'm saying all this to paint a little bit of a picture about how much this has been

reviewed by planning staff and the permit office. Each each um building has to be permitted separately and so that they they submit elevations with every permit uh STR and all that stuff. So um additionally in phase one they they requested a modification due to the height of the building. They wanted uh I believe it was 50 foot instead of 35 which is what um our code calls for. They were granted that that modification. Um and so in phase two they had to request it again and it was granted but in that modification request it said these buildings were designed to match phase one of this project which has already been constructed. That was in their request. Um that modification was granted and I can't I don't think any other modifications have been requested. So during construction, inspe inspectors are called out to do a foundation, a rough out plumbing, rough out um electricity, and then they're not called back until finals, what we call finals were called. So several weeks ago, the applicant requested a temporary certificate of occupancy. So planning, we went to do our finals and found that the applicant had used a different material than what were agreed upon throughout the the process. staff contacted them and advised that we could not issue a TCO due to it not meeting the design specifications that were submitted on any of the FA facades. The applicant submitted for a post SCR review. So they sent in as built and we looked at it and due to vast difference we told them that they were going to have to have to ask for a modification that we could not look at the SDR until

a modification had been done. So they they sent in a request to do a modification to change the entire design. go back to that first one. So, that's what's built right now. And you can see that there's ornate um railings, the the doors are quite ornate. Of course, the whole thing's brick, the sconces, and so quite a bit of time had passed between phase one and phase two. This brick was no longer available. They sent a letter in which you have copy of it um stating that this brick was not available and due to tariffs that were imposed on building materials it was cost prohibitive basically to to get the same railing those sconces all that sort of thing. So they made a decision to go a different way. Now bear in mind this is the same development. There's no delineation between phase one and phase two. There's one entrance and one exit. They both use the same um recreation facilities, office, all of that stuff. Um so after reviewing it, I felt like there was too stark of a difference and I would be doing a disservice to grant the modification without additional um input from the neighborhood. And when I say neighborhood, I'm talking about the Fountain Blue neighborhood. It's big enough to be considered a neighborhood in my estimation and the advice of this commission. So, um, I denied it and we are here. Let me see where I've gotten to here. This is what happens when I go off script. So I told you that yeah a better what

concerned me was not only did they go ahead and construct it without getting any input from anybody but it didn't even match what they had submitted for SDR and on every permit um I felt like they could have without I mean I get that that materials were no longer available but I felt like they could come up with something a little more cohesive, a little more complimentary to phase one. And at this point, I haven't seen anything that um but I've they they haven't come to me with anything. I believe they've got some some visuals here for you tonight. Um, so if you have any questions for our process and Cecil Corning, who is the director of permits and inspections is here. If you have questions for him as well, um, I'll be happy to answer them.

Was an amendment ever made to the permit? No. What was the original uh when it came in as one phase or one one project submitt initially? How many how many buildings? I believe there was 14 14 and then that first two-year period they built eight about a half of them. Yeah. Okay. At least half. Yes. And further I don't want to keep hammering on this but we went out there I think it's been three weeks ago to do the finals and there were three of these buildings. The facades were completed on them. The rest of them were in I think there was brick on a few of them, but today I went out there and they're all completed just like that.

Is that a Hardy plank cement board? Yes, it is. And And I'm not arguing with with the quality of the materials or anything like that. I I believe it's a quality product. I don't I don't doubt that in the least. The only thing that I had issue with is just the stark difference in the aesthetics. So it seems like you guys had quite a bit of discussion since the three weeks ago when you guys went out and did cut up quite a bit back along as you guys were having that discussion. Was there any discussion from the applicant about mitigating the situation, making modifications? Did they come to you with any recommendations before your denial or?

They did not come to me with any any recommendations. They asked me what they I thought they could do and I explained to them that I'm not a designer an architect but they have not come to me with anything so far.

And then there were new renderings I think that were put up here that kind of show what actually was put in place. Those were sent to you guys I'm assuming following your inspection 3 weeks ago. Well, yes, they so we told them immediately this we this can't fly. This can't work. So what they did was they they did a post they submitted for a post STR review as built and which included those.

Yes, it did include these and I looked at or we the the entire staff looked at it and again I didn't feel like without further input that we could do that. So I I instructed them to ask for a major a modification. We can argue whether it's major or minor all day long, but in my estimation it was it was major. Yeah. So prior to that, you guys had the previous elevations which had the stone, the brick, the full or Yes, that one. Yes. Okay.

That was the one that was submitted for the original STR, the STR for phase two, and for each permit. Is there a required percentage of mix of brick for a multif family unit?

So when this was originally done at the peed in the original governing document for central landing as a whole, we deferred to the MF3 standards, but they pulled out this 18 acres and submitted it to us as this is these are the materials we're going to use. They wanted a high-end development, which I think we can all agree Fountain Blue is, and they put to us what they wanted to use and we approved it. So, because it's a PUD, any modification from that would have to be further approved. And it's been been on two SDR reviews, sir. And 18 building permits.

Yes, sir. 14, maybe 14. I The brick has Mhm. Yes. on every permit, every SDR, everything. It was shown as fully brick on every elevation. Is it standard when, correct, I might get my terms wrong. Is it standard when you're going through a post SDR or a PUD major minor modification, any of those discussions? In your opinion, is it standard to continue construction or would you usually expect the applicant to halt? In for me personally, no, I wouldn't because I'm just throwing good money after bad. That that would be my take on it. I'm I'm not the developer though. So

So um to Mr. Davis's point about percentages of brick. Now this is I'm assuming part of a pattern book or something that the applicant had submitted as part of that PUD. Yes.

These are the exact elevations that they used and we didn't dictate the color of brick. We didn't dictate the the colors of anything just that it was fully brick. Was there an internal discussion at that time about what materials were going to be acceptable? If they had come up with like a different material and it wasn't brick, was it preferable? I just kind of trying to get a sense of brick versus these other materials that are being submitted today that had the other materials were never presented to us. So, we don't we we didn't have any discussion. Now, post once we figured out this is what they're building. Yeah. There was a lot of discussion about it um between staff and and the applicant and several the architect called me the I think the engineer. I've had a lot of conversations about this with

and Mr. Burkhalter and his I'm gonna say contingent is here tonight to uh speak with you. But before I sit down, I I kind of wanted to go through the the options that you're going to have tonight. Number one, if you can't reach a consensus, you can always table it for 30 days. But if you have um with motions being made in the positive, and this is going to get confusing to people at home. So if a motion is made to uphold my denial, the votes will be yes. you have the ability to impose conditions on this because it is a PUB. So if you impose conditions, make your motion with the conditions and then a no vote takes care of that. You see what I'm saying? A no vote would would do away with my denial and impose the conditions. Just so we're clear on that.

Can I ask a question? Yes, ma'am. If we were to uphold your denial with a yes vote, what happens? They can appeal to city council. Okay. If if you vote no and you override my denial, then it stops here. Okay. One more question. Any questions about that? Yes. In the last 10 years, has there been a similar uh situation with the multif family unit in Conway? Gosh, you're relying on my memory. Mhm. Um to your knowledge,

that's that's iffy at best, but um I can't think of one on a multi-family unit. Um now, we can argue what the neighborhood is, and there is another development called the Hudson that is part of the Central Landing PUD as a whole, and they look very similar to this. I I don't know that that the quality of material is the same or if it's I I I don't know. And I, you know, some people could argue it it doesn't change the character, but in my estimation, again, there was some some decisions that I had to make and interpret the way I saw it and I was looking at Fountain Blue as a whole, as a neighborhood.

Is the Hudson in the same gated area? No. No. No. There's one way into Fountain Blue and one way out. It's a gated. It's the one across the street. I drove across. Yeah. It's further on down. So, it's not in the same gated. No. Okay. There's a street between Yeah, I think she's she's going to pull it up. And that all of that over there to the right is the Hudson. Yeah. I remember seeing that. Okay. Any other questions for staff? One other question. So, you said that the other option so confirm, deny, or table it for 30 days. I know we've said when we go into the commission that we have to vote one way that we can vote to table it.

You can vote to table it. You you can you can have discussions. You can discuss and if if you can come up with the conditions that you're all happy with, then I would make the motion with the conditions. Before you make any motions though, if you're going to table it, you can discuss, but you need to vote to table it before any motions are made. Once a motion is made, you need to vote and we won't be able to close public comment because once we close public comment into commission, we have to vote, right? Uh either to table or up or down, right? I just want to make we all know the rules of the game.

Really, it's up to you. If if you've got points of clarification that you need, you're you're welcome to ask. Are there conditions that the uh plan department has thought about or reviewed? Like I said, I'm not a developer. I'm not a engineer and I'm not an architect. So, based on what they present to us tonight would be your recommendation. I'm I'm anxious to see. Okay. Okay. Have you seen? No. So, they didn't bring it to you prior to tonight? Yeah. Okay. Any other questions for staff?

We choose to table it for 30 days. They bring you options. You change your mind that it's not a major modification at that point. I I don't think I can change my mind. You guys are It's in your hands now. You're gonna either way you're going to have to Yeah. They would have had to do that prior to your denial basically for and it's going to be a modification regardless, right? We have to make it. Yeah. Anybody else? Okay, I'll turn it over. Thanks, Ann. Right. Is the applicant here? speak in favor of the request.

We only have we have the architect wants to speak and my wife has a couple letters from residents she'd like to read and uh to clear the record. We've only built six buildings. You had a good question. So before before you speak, you have the state name and address and staff does get more time because they are staff. you know, they're not bound by time, but the public input portion for and against are bound by time. So, you'll have 10 minutes for the first speaker, three minutes for subsequent speakers limit to 10. So, you know, we want to be efficient. We'll ask questions. We're, you know, we're here to to serve the city and and we want to hear what you have to say.

So, I will be speaking very quickly, very fast. So, name and address first. John Burkhalter or 30 Chanel Circle, Little Rock, Arkansas 7221 72223. Thanks sir. Um did you guys start setting these up? We'll we'll not start your time until Yeah, you go ahead and get set up. Yeah,

time start. I would like to say there's only six buildings built, not eight. And I have tried to reach an for about a week with these suggestions and I've had no call back. on the podium.

Yeah. On either side of the podium. So, the commissioners.

Okay. Whatever how you want to do it. I just that podium gets in the way of people seeing. They may have to get up and One club six bill including middle six bill not including

good evening chairman Reid and other fellow commissioners and Tucker director of planning I am John Burkhaller my wife Penny Burkhaller is with me today we're the owners of Fountain Blue Conway we appreciate our your time your service and the opportunity to address all of you our company was the first to purchase land from the CDC in 2018. From the beginning, we believed that Conway is a great city to invest in and Central Landing was going to be a great neighborhood. When we began phase one of Fountain Blue Conway, we understood that we were the first to invest in an underserved area, but we shared the vision of the CDC and the city of Conway. We build only high-end apartment home communities, and Fountain Blue Conway is no different. We offer some of the finest apartments in the city, and many have spoken highly of the development. Our commitment to Conway extends far beyond construction. We support the police officer, firefighters. We participate in annual community events. And we have proudly been a gold sponsor and won two out of the last four uh Christmas parades. We also active participate in city events, UCA Hendricks and Central Baptist activities. We have demonstrated our commitment to the city of Conway citizens and our residents. We are here tonight with our architect, Bill Weeder, who was raised and educated in Conway. my CFO Ryan Lawson and our project manager Ryan uh Brent Cornnegie, our port department manager Adrien Kitson, myself John Burkalder, which which I do have some roots here. I attended Hendrickx College for two years and later bought my first cows and pigs at the Louiswis Sellbar. We are here asking for your approval to move this project forward. We respectedly disagree that this qualifies as a major modification, but we are here in good faith and with respect in for the process and Tucker deemed the material substitution as a major modification based on the interpretator of a major modification. And I have this on the board if y'all do want to come back and we can read it uh because we disagree. Major modifications are tenatively granted by the director of planning and development

require city council notification. A modification that would result in any of the following will be deemed major. Expansion of the types of land used specifically allowed in the approved final PU. No TU. No change. Change in the character and function of the driveways or streets approved in the final PUD. No change. Uh foreseeable significant increase in traffic volume or foreseeable negative impact on traffic flow. None. Reduction in the amount and or distribution of common space. No change. Or green service space. No change. or any significant change to the nature or character of the of the approved development. No change. Additionally, the director of planning and development may elect to follow the method for major modification approval for any modification of any less magnitude particularly if such modification is deemed to be in the public interest. We did have the signs out and we did advertise in Arkansas Democrat Gazette or the or the log cabin and specifically calls out that is a major modification to to any significant change in the nature and character to prove development. We disagree that the change of the facade change the nature or character of the development. We were the first to build in central landing and in such established the character of the neighborhood. The nature of our development has been and will always be class A apartment complex. Since then, additional developments have followed, including new apartments, many storage homes, commercial buildings, and a recreation center. All of these developments use a variety of exterior materials. Our development is a cornerstone of this neighborhood. We did not demi diminish the clarity. We helped to elevate it. Uh so these would be I'd like to start This is

great. Are you playing? That's it. I like boss.

Also, new house has been built with basically different colors and bricks. These examples demonstrate that the neighborhood already includes a wide variety of materials, colors, and designs. And the Hudson is so very close to the outside of ours, and it's just in the same neighborhood. The city has worked closely with us throughout the foundation inspections, framing, mechanical, electrical, plumbing, etc. It was only when we are basically finished. All these people, all these city people have been to this job site, but they didn't see it and then they refused to let me open. The changes explained tonight were caused by circumstances beyond our control. A brick manufacturer shut down, causing our current brick to become unavailable. Tariffs on imported materials created serious supply issues due to cost. Some materials became unavailable. Faced with those realities, we made the responsible decision to select available quality materials so the project could continue moving forward. Had we thought for a minute, for a minute that we needed to go to the planning commission, I'd be a fool if if I didn't do that. We never considered a major modification. And my architect is going to speak to that, too. So, we went with these new materials and we continued moving forward. We've been at a great pace. We've only been under construction a year and a couple months now and we are scheduled to finish in January and February. Had we thought this was a major modification, we have would have contacted the planning department prior for approval, but based on what we believe as engineers and architects, the definition of major modification and the the materials already in use in the neighborhood, we are not just the neighborhood. We are one development.

there's 400 and something acres and when when Jamie Gates first came to me they had a dealers shown they had all these other projects shown and those didn't come about but everything is coming together you know even sir will you stay at the mic so that everybody at home can hear you I just want to make sure that everybody just not just us in the room can hear you

also is our neighbor and we have no problem with this Mount Blue Conway provides much needed housing, quality housing for the city of Conway. Conway is a special place. It's a wonderful place. It's one of the fastest growing cities in the state. But people need to live, move here. Interest rates are so high. They need a quality place to live. We're gated. We have offduty police officers that live in our development. We have we do not have crime within our gates and our fences. We respectfully ask the planning commission to approve this modification as bill or to select from what we're going to present with some other color bricks today which I believe in and my architect we got it right the first time. We got the right colors. We pulled up the black, the gray, all the different colors from the swimming pool, the granite columns that are used throughout the development. Um, and lifted up something from a letter from Holloway that said that these buildings were designed to match phase one of the project, which has already been constructed. This was from a June 24th letter from the engineer asking for a variance on the height. Now, do all the plans show it? Yes. But this is what she lifted up for you. So this was not correct. This was an engineer stating engineers are cons are with utilities, height, width, lengths of buildings. But is it on the plans were approved? Yes. But we did not know until we actually went under construction. These things were not available. We also made comments to an on the 9th. We got it out at like 7:30 at night and she hasn't

taken my call since. and we responded to all that and the things we wanted to show you here. So, it's not true that we did not try. Uh, and Ann's been the point person. You've been great to work with. You have an opinion. Everybody in this room has an opinion. And that is going to be your 10 minutes. And I just want to clarify too, my phone is set for if if somebody calls my phone, it's my personal cell phone and I don't have them in my contacts. It sends it straight to voicemail and I I'm sorry I haven't seen them. Okay. I I have everybody else I think in my city

and I should get your and she has been a delight to work with but trying to figure out what you guys want or someone else wants. We still don't know what anybody wants. We we did the best we can and it is beautiful and wonderful and we've got over 30 leases and applications here today. You want to hold those up, Adrian? We have people ready to move in. The public loves the facility. So, I'm going to ask now my p my wife Penny is going to read two letters from two residents. And so, if they are not here or did not submit them directly to the commission, they cannot go into public record. So, they need they either need to submit not read them.

They should be reading them into public record. So, they have to be submitted by them or they have to be here. So, they can't they can't submit them on behalf of of folks. Well, we're still learning um and still being rejected, but we have two wonderful letters. One's an elderly lady who's lost her husband. She lives in phase one. She wants to live in phase two on a ground floor in a three-bedroom, and she needs to move in as soon as possible. Um so, now can Bill Weedair, the architect, speak? Yes. And he'll have three minutes.

Do we do we ask him questions first or do we wait? So, let let's wait and and once we get through the public hearing, we will have questions for you and you will have opportunity to to answer those questions and obviously we'll look at your your options and we're going to give you the fair amount of time to do that. We just the public hearing is we have guidelines and and how we need to to apologize for running. Thank you. And if you could please state your name and address for the record, please.

Bill Wed. Pardon me. Uh 7325 Rockwood Road, Little Rock, Arkansas. Um I would like to just make a few points. U I did talk to Ann last week and uh she was 100% correct in that I did ask what uh she thought we might be able to do. Uh, one point I want to make is we want to do uh within reason everything we can do to get this project open. Uh, we do disagree somewhat on the uh the definition of neighborhood uh and smiling at that too.

Everybody has their opinion. Uh but uh this project uh as John said is a extremely nice apartment complex. U I'm not sure uh why the difference I I mean and please understand I I I've done I I can't even count how many PUDs I've done over the years. I did primarily uh multif family housing for about 40 years. I've done it all over the south. I've been to planning commissions meetings all over the south. Uh nothing nothing's the same, but they're all similar. Uh but uh the fact that the two phases are different uh I'm I'm I'm failed to understand why that makes a difference with the purpose of the project. Purpose of the project is to provide uh class A housing. Uh we did when I talked to an uh she did or we discussed some possible options I'm going to show you a couple here but um I guess I can show you that now. Uh one of the options that we came up with and we have constructed a couple of panels out at the uh building site. Uh the one on the left is the the existing brick with a uh color uh I could tell you the name but it wouldn't look like the color so it

doesn't matter. Um but this uh both of these colors are in phase one brick and that that is a blended brick. It is. They're probably five or six different colors in that project. Uh trying to find a couple and and we can't make these look like that brick, but we can get in the in the neighborhood of of uh the color range. So, it it might not be as stark of difference between the two. Um the second one is actually this color painting the brick and then a complimentary color above that. And when I picked it out from a little 2 by 2 square it didn't look quite that orange. Uh that's something I should have gotten a bigger sample. But the point being, whether you like these colors or not, the point being, we are trying to find a way to get this project finished uh to provide the housing that it was meant to be.

And your three minutes are up. Okay. And so as far as options and how we look, we move forward, we'll move that once we hear four and any opposition, then we'll we'll discuss some options.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Is there anyone else here to speak in favor? Name and address and you also have three minutes. Uh Ryan Lost, 318 Cold Water Drive, Benton, Arkansas. I just have a quick clarification earlier. So back in 2018, the SDR was approved for the whole phase. then come back 2024 it was reviewed uh for the second phase and then the permits were pulled January 15th of 25 and then the material uh that was found to not be available was uh discussed with the vendors after those dates. So we didn't you know when we went for the second SDR we did not know these things at the time. So, we're contacting our subcontractors and everything and then later you source materials and stuff like that. And so, at that time, then we're going to check with the suppliers and stuff like that. So, I just wanted to make a clarification on the timing of the SDRs and the pulling of the permit. Great.

Awesome. Thank you. Right. Is there anyone here to speak in opposition of this request? And so we we'll have we'll have some questions for you and and we're going to talk through some options. Um I do want to ask our permits department if this were not in a PUD and this were just built on a regular piece of property and they commercial building did not use the materials in their plans. What would be your process? Would you would you make them pull the materials off and replace them with what's approved?

Well, first you need to understand that primarily what we look at in permits as your im plumbing outside facade that is decided by someone else. But I have to admit it's not exactly what was originally proposed. But um it was as me going on the site as often as I do and I've been there many times both doing electrical and mechanical could I have said something to them no because I wasn't aware that it was to be anything different than the finished product now not seeing the the u the the design structure of what it was supposed to look like is the reason why Um, I knew that it was different than the than the uh phase one finished product. It was a lot different until it was brought to my attention. Uh, I didn't have a problem, should I say, with the looks, structures of what was presented or what was being built. Uh, but it's obvious that it's different. But uh same size buildings, same structure, same size. Uh it didn't enlarge, it didn't spread out. Uh that all stayed the same. It's just the facade, the initial looks of it. As you can see, the first floor is brick and it doesn't go any further up. That's the obvious change. But but you that didn't really answer your question of what of how I would answer the question

because you were asking me pretty much a direct what would I do? Mhm.

Well, I may not be the best person to uh to answer the question, but um as an observer permitting, it's not what was permitted, but um if if the electricity or the mechanical or the foundation or something that that is within the purview of the inspectors was it done? They would be required to rip it out and now the building is permitted for such as uh all all of that the building framing so forth. That didn't change. There was nothing to alert us that there was a change uh until the outside started coming up. But even then, I did not know to say anything to anyone.

Right. That's what I'm saying. The elevations are on the permit, but that's not what these guys pull when they go out there to inspect. They're pulling up the mechanical plans and the electrical plants, that kind of thing. They're not pulling up the the facades on the on the permit. They do it all on on their iPads and they're looking at what they're supposed to look at. So, in the building final inspections, permits department is not looking at the building exterior at all. That's all up to the planning. Is that my understanding?

Uh it's probably that's probably a an accurate assessment. Uh now we will be looking at the the outside of the building, you know, if it's leaning or something. Um that is our biggest concern if it's constructed correctly. You know, the the footing, foundation, framing, so forth. And we see primarily that when we're inside the outside, of course, we also are directed to look at the u the other features of uh of the outside like the sidewalks, the parking such as that. Any questions for permit staff? Well, he's up here.

I think he still answered your question. Yeah. So o ultimately where I you know thinking through it you know as an architectural professional typically when you make a modification to something that is permitted you would submit an amendment to your permit um and if it's not in a PUD that's that's the normal process. Um, I mean, the whole facade of multiple buildings are changing. That's pretty large change. And so I I I don't think any of us disagree with the fact these are constructed well. I don't think I don't think we disagree with that. Um,

yeah. I just um I was going to ask Ann, do you we have a definition of what a major modification is in the code at all or are you having you're having to interpret or or we actually have a there's there's some gray area. I'm going to have them pull it up uh in our zoning codes so that you can see the difference. Um, one of the things is is if it changes the character of the neighborhood and that was kind of what I was hanging my hat on. Okay. Which page Cassidy is and I noticed staff what page

I noticed mention of a minor modification as well. So do we also have a definition of a minor modification? Yes, in our zoning code and I think it's in this report. You know what? In the in the what?

So I will just 50 if you're online, 48 by the page numbers. Just for clarification. I see that. Okay. Well, a modification that would result in any of the following will be deemed major expansion of the types of land. Okay. So, he went he went through all of that. The thing there that I'm hanging that that I'm basing this on is uh the ch the change in the neighborhood to the nature and character of the approved development. I felt like they changed the nature of this development.

Yeah. So I mean of the approved development I think any significant change to the nature or character of the approved development. Additionally the director of planning and development may elect to follow the method for major modification approval which is any modification of a lesser magnitude particularly if such modification is deemed to be in the public interest. That's straight out of our zoning code. So, so it does leave some some room for interpretation. And I and this is an individual PUD, not tied to the rest of

it was originally all of the central landing. And and um Mr. Burke Halter pulled out 18 acres of it for this development. So, it's still zoned PUD, but it's all under one PUD governance originally. Yes. Currently though, it's on this 18 acres is it own separate PUD. Is that accurate? Well, now that the it's a PUD and then the rest of Central Landing is also a PUD. So it's a separate PUD is what I'm asking. Right. Okay. Its own individual PUD

and the original governing document when Central Landing did this back in 2014, they deferred to the zoning code MF3 um design standards. they which these meet the materials for the design standards for sure, but in a PUB you you you spell it out. You say exactly what it is and everything that was submitted was fully brick. So to make it clear as mud, what we have here is in the zoning code, it says any significant change to the nature or character of the approved development would be considered a major modification.

Yes, we have a development that is its own development. It's a it's a it's a PUD in it on itself in its own. And so if anything in that PUD was changed significantly that changed the a significant change to the nature or character of that approved development, it would need to be considered a major modification and it would have to go back. So that's if that's what we're that's what we're deciding right now, is it?

If I had decided that it was a minor modification and and approved it, then I would have only had to have notified I I could have done it administratively, notified city council, and they would have had 5 days to refute it. Other than that, it would have gone. But a major modification has to go through this process

because I think I appreciate all the content like the examples and the comments and things like that. I think we get a little bit in the mud when we start talking about love for Conway, other developments around it. I I recognize all those, but I think for us to make decisions on this, we have to go by the code, what the code says, and what we're working with within a PUD. And so, I just want to make sure we stay clear and on point with what the decision that we're trying to make is and what the challenge is here around a major modification. So, cuz I think it can get really gray really quickly and I would like to keep it a little more black and white.

And if this were done prior to constructing these buildings, we would have had to come to a public hearing, correct? To make the major modification. Yes. So, we'd be in this forum multiple. Yes. I think to your point uh Miss M. Reigns, is that you know, you have quantities, right? You have the development, you have a a frame to work within. Neighborhood can be subjective, but it does say the project. It does say the development. So, you do have some constraints to make decisions on

and this development is its own PUD. So, it's clearly defined what the development is. The code develop, you know, defines that it's a development and it's any significant change to the nature of character. So, that's what we're dealing with. And I mean, not not that this has anything to do with with Fountain Blue, but the Hudson is also a PUD. And they came to us with the specifications that met met MF3 in the zoning code. They told us how they wanted to build them. There was nothing that that prohibited them from building them like that as long as they were using the materials and the percentages that that aligned with MF3. And they did. and we approved.

Realistically, if if we were to uphold the denial and they cannot get the materials, they would have to come back and present for a major modification. Correct. If you upheld the denial, yes, they would have they would have to figure something out. They would be able to go to city council, right? If we deni Well, yeah. If you if if if you go Gosh, I'm going to get my words mixed up. we uphold the denial. If you uphold the denial, they they can go to city council ju without making any changes at all and present to them and see what they have to say about it.

But ultimately, they can't get the exact material per per the letters we've received. Right. Right. I haven't haven't fact checked it, but you know, assuming that is true, they have to go some other route, which normally would be a close color match brick brricked all the way up or even just something that blends. Yeah. They would either have to brick all the way up or they would have to somehow pick out some colors that blend well with. So, you're saying paint like he presented?

That's up to y'all at this point. Well, the original PUD that was submitted with the six or seven I think it was six buildings that are actually the residential buildings, right? Not the clubhouse, but those are cladded on all four sides with a certain style of brick. So, from that standpoint, that's the proved materials. It's it's not just brick versus a veneer. It's the color. It's the texture. It's a lot of those other nuancical sort of things that's already sort of set the precedent. Well, I think we all I mean there's also faux stone around the bottom that m when I drove by there's faux stone around all of the original built phase ones as well at the very bottom that matches all the way around. So it's like you've got faux stone and it's bricked all the way up with the different sconces and all of the things and then so this development has no faux stone, different brick and the siding on top. So you've got It

would would you come forward so we can you know the folks at home we just want to make sure you Thank you. Thank you. Ceil the original phase one has hardy sighting inside the breezeways. I don't know that the picture shows that but it does every Well, yeah, you can see it right there. We don't consider that the inside of the breeze breezeways a facade though. Yeah, I just we were he was talking about the different materials used on phase one and that was on phase one. So, back to my original question for permits is

if you're looking at a facade in a nonPUD commercial development and they did not use the approved permitted materials, what would be your plan of action? This because I I'm going to stop short of saying Mr. of our culture, rip all that stuff off and re-brick it all. I just because economically that's a hard pill to swallow. So again, this is why I came through this process is

we we are not in commission. We are still open if you've got questions for the applicant. Well, I guess one of you guys go first. I would like to see what other proposals y'all have um to correct the action. Were those the the the two options that were on the board that you presented? Are those the only two options that you're presenting or do you have more options

for tonight? Those are the two. Uh I talked to Ann Thursday. uh we scrambled and got those uh panels built and uh as I as I mentioned when I was up here, we're open to other colors. We're open to you know optimally for my client it like Ann said as well uh we we would prefer not to have to tear all the brick and the siding off and start a fresh. We would hope that we could come up with something. Uh, and as she mentioned earlier, uh, we're open for your conditions. Uh, which in my opinion, that's what that would be. Uh, and I I don't know if uh we'd also hope it well I won't say we'd hope you would table wouldn't table it. If it gives us opportunity to fix something that uh you would approve then that would be okay. But as as Mr. Burkalter stated that uh they they're going to start losing people. Uh and uh it's it's a little harder to rent something when somebody says, "Well, I was ready to move in and they something happened and and can't move in." But uh we are open to other suggestions.

So in this phase, it is all residential buildings. There are no community buildings. Correct. In this phase, this phase uses the phase one community buildings, pool, facility, all that. Correct. Is there any difference in the rates between phase one and phase two? I don't believe so. No. They're $100 higher. People in phase one have contracts. So, is the landscaping and everything else I'm sorry. Is does landscaping match phase one to phase two? Yes. Is there is landscaping completed for phase two or it's just planned to be the same as phase two as phase one?

It's planned to be the same as phase two. Right. Uh if I could just go one step further and say something I didn't get to say earlier, probably take me a second. Uh as I mentioned, I've been doing apartments for about 40 years. And through that time, I've dealt with a lot of owners, a lot of uh leasing companies. And uh one thing that I have learned is that there are three uh basic things that people are looking for when they're renting an apartment. And uh coming from an architect, this is hard to say, but uh you you draw people in somewhat from the initial view of the building. Uh, but what people are more interested in are the interiors of the apartments, the amenities, and if you've read any rental stuff lately, they put amenities over everything. But, uh, and then the third is safety. This is a completely fenced and gated community. Uh, we're trying to bring, as John said, I grew up here. The neighborhood this is in has in my long time of not living here has deteriorated somewhat. The the central landing thing was a great idea and I think it's working. Uh you're drawing people in there. Uh and we want to be a good neighbor. We want to be a good uh economic fa factor for the city of Conway. You are going to get some tax dollars off of this. Uh so again, we we want to do what we can do to make this work.

So you said the brick was discontinued uh from the original phase one. Yes. Who's the supplier? brick from the Corbett family. I used to work for him 35 years ago mixing mud and cleaning brick. Uh ABC block are is our supplier. The the block the brick comes out of Texas and the plant is no longer in existence, no longer making this brick anymore.

Is there a reason that you guys didn't brick all the way up to keep the same material as what was in the original plans? That's a good question. What I've I'm I'm a professional engineer and I've designed apartment complex from the civil side and the structural side where Bill designs them from the architectural side. Is that when you go with height with two different bricks right up against one another? Mr. Bar Calter, if you can stay, get somebody else to do that so that you can continue.

Uh, okay. Well, everybody at home is trying to hear you. I'm getting texts from people. So, this is the mini storage, which is within 40T of us. And they use multiple colors. Multiple colors. And they only went up one level. Typically, if you went up three floors with a competing brick, it would look terrible. Let me uh expand on that a little bit. Uh it's better to go farther away and to try to get pretty close because people notice the pretty close a lot more than they do what we did. And that was part of the idea was let's not try to make it look like we got close it. Uh and and John said we were pretty pleased with the initial because of all the different colors in that. I mean you can look at the picture and see how many different uh colors in that brick there are. We couldn't get uh a blend that was anywhere near that uh mix of colors. And uh so we just chose to try to do something else.

I guess my question is if you're if you're going to use a different brick right on the bottom portion, if we were going to go with a different color, it's going to look different, right? Like not try to match the brick exactly, but why didn't we just go all the way up with what was planned with, you know, I mean, there's two there's two bricks either way. Well, we didn't want to use all black to start with. Uh

it would have made too big of a statement. And this is when you look out the back of the clubhouse, what you see a lot of granite, salt and pepper granite, a lot of grays, a lot of blacks over here. You can other didn't want to compete with one another. Okay. Height it would not look good.

And a question for John. Do you have a preference how this is resolved with regard to whether this planning commission comes up with an alternative or would you prefer for the city council to get involved? Do you have a preference at this point in time in how to best resolve this situation? Well, as you probably know, time is not my friend, and it's a $90 million project. And an told me about a week and a half ago with Ryan Law and Brent Cornigo on the phone that you will come to this commission, you will lose, and you will go to the city council and they'll give it to you. Do y'all table it? I I don't unless we're really trying to get somewhere. Um, and then I know if I go to the city council, it's final. I've never had the death sentence in my life. I don't know what to do with a project of this magnitude, which is the highest quality. We didn't show you the interiors, but it's amazing what we do. And phase two is $100 higher because it is amazing. People have less furniture today. And so, we did a lot more built-in cabinets. We did we did more special things. I'm not a guy that knows what cheapie means. I didn't grow up with a lot, but I know quality and I know how to build quality and we would have never done it. If we knew we were going to end up here, we would have done this months ago. My architect and I disagree that it's a major mod. And Ann said, she goes, I could say it's a minor mod, but if I push it to a major mod, you all have to vote on it. But she's also told me you're going to vote no. So,

I'm going to clarify that statement in just a second, y'all. Well, just I want to say regardless of what the outcome is. Uh, this is a really awesome investment for the city of Conway and that does not change no matter how we resolve it. This is going to get resolved. you know, I don't know if it'll be within the time frame that you're hoping for, but I appreciate the input that that you gave uh to us and we'll do our best in this situation.

And I would also echo that I don't think what where we get is a reflection of the type of developer that we think you are or the type of development. I mean, I know you've talked about your investment in Conway, which I think is appreciated, and that these are nice complexes. I don't I don't think anyone's making the argument that you did not do a great job creating a good facade. I think what is more at hand here is we're responsible for upholding the planning code and figuring out whether or not that was adhered to not necessarily like giving special recommend you know special requests to you know whether somebody's good or bad developer that's not what's at judgment tonight so I don't want that to

I understand that yeah I think a vote is appropriate uh if y'all feel that y'all don't have the ability to to do anything to move the process forward forward because we can't afford this project just to sit there like that. Thank you, Bruce. I really appreciate those comments as well as to echo those. And did you um confer with the city attorney on the his opinion on the reading of the code? No, he defers to me. Okay. There any other questions? Get involved in unless there's legalities.

Sure. Are there any questions for the applicant? Thank you. And and we may call you back up. So,

and I did have a conversation with Mr. Baralter and Mr. Cornnegay and several I don't know who all was on the phone, but there was quite a few. And they were pushing me to to give them my ideas. And what I said to them is if the planning commission looks just at the code and just at what is in the purview of the code, probably they would they would vote to uphold my denial. When it gets to city council, they will look at all the economics. They'll look at all all the things. They're that's their task is to look at all of that stuff. And I can't imagine, like you said, Brooks, it it's going to get resolved one way or another. I can't imagine that the city council would look at him and say, "I'm sorry, you're going to have to take all that down." I that's my interpretation. I didn't say it was going to fail here. That That was not my intent if that's the way they took it.

Yeah. So, kind of where where I'm sitting before we officially go into commission. We're still not in commission. Yep. Just making that clear. Um, ultimately, I I don't like that the process wasn't wasn't followed. There is a process for this and there is a process to submit an amendment u before you pull all these permits or after you've pulled the permits, submit an amendment to the change there that that should have been done. But I do go back to if it would have got to the point that the brick was not available and it's still deemed a major modification, we would have still had a public hearing. And currently tonight in this public hearing, same forum, there are no other public input versus the developer. So we would have been in this scenario anyways and say we deny it, city council denies it. this is the process by which they have to go back through and they have to come up with with an idea. Um, you know, personally, painting the brick the orangey color looks worse for the neighborhood than than than what we have.

Um, again, we we we have a process that should be followed and and construction professionals, architect professionals should should know that process and and should lean into it. And so we're not ne, you know, negating that the process wasn't followed, but I think we are in the in the forum that we would ultimately be in. And so I think the option presented before us does tie in some of the elements of the the earlier development. Um, you know, obviously it would have been nice if the process was followed and it would match perfectly. Um, there is some Hardy. There are some of these colors in the neighborhood. um you know either it's resolved tonight or the cans kicked down the road and we're here again ultimately. So anybody have any other comments or questions for the applicant?

I would just agree with that. I wish the process would have been followed but I don't think it's in anyone's interest for to continue this project and then ultimately the site continue under construction. I personally know people that are trying to rent there, not able to move in or calling other landlords in the city. Like nothing positive happens when we have a development that sits not continuing. That's not good for Gway. That's not good for anyone. Um so I'm not a construction expert. So would would deem to the people that are know best of what will look good, but I I would not like to see this continue. I would like for us to come up with some resolution. Was there a pattern book submitted? No. But I don't have one handy.

Does the applicant know if a pattern book was ever submitted?

Thank you. I know the uh city code book uh in some of the zonings uh requires a certain amount of brick, certain amount of other things. And Ann, I may be wrong, but I don't think that's the case in multif family. I we could have done if we had come in on a PUB from day one and said it's going to be all hardy. We have our new design standards say a percentage of masonry and a p we we do it by percentages. Now we don't before we submitted. This this is no. And

so at the time at the time what you would have been required to do is um 50 51% masonry. Correct me if I'm wrong y'all. 51% masonry. And of that 51% 26% would need to be brick. Uh but as far as I'm I'm I'm not sure I'm clear about pattern book. you we didn't have to submit color folio with the with the old school with the pages and you would see the percentages kind of like what we're talking about just a visual

I don't I think it's all a visual thing uh but we you you don't have to present colors you present material but not colors so uh and one of the questions I uh meant to ask an when we talked last week was if we had come in with a major modification uh followed the the the way we should have done it and but it was the black brick and the gray sighting would that have been approved. I think that's a fair question.

I can't really answer that right now. If if you had come in there I'm sorry I was talking to Ethan too. Um, if you had come in with that and asked for a minor modification, is that what you're asking me? If you Well, if it was major, it'd be in front of them anyway. But this is the ultimate forum you end up in. Okay. And that's what I was getting at earlier. Even if it's denied all the way down the road, we're back in this forum, right? Yeah. So, that's what I was going to reiterate like Ethan was saying that we'd be back in this forum. So, if we had suggested the the brick with the siding, those colors, that would have been an option that we would have given you guys to vote on

as a major modification. And then possibly uh some of these others that they presented tonight. So, you know, consider the black brick with the siding as an option uh that we would have presented originally. In that situation, would we have seen and approved colors or would we have been we would see the the renderings that they would they be tied to those in what we were approving or would it have just been like the elevations like what we saw it been the elevations like likely they there is no requirement for them to provide a a book. Yeah. So site developer

view really we're just talking about what was in the elevations. So they would have presented elevations. we would have approved that. And so technically they could have brick the whole thing in black brick. Like there was never a requirement for it to be the same color brick. What we're talking about is elevations had brick all the way up and then instead we used other materials. Well or actually elevations had stone at the bottom and then brick. And instead we have no stone, brick and then hardy board. Yeah. Now the elevations could I can't read them but they could call out the specific colors and style of brick. I don't think they do. I I didn't see anything where they did on their they uh if they did it would be a number. It wouldn't be a color probably.

Yeah. I just called out the faux stone granite water table brick veneer all the way up.

Any other questions while they're up here for them? I think so. Thank you. So, hypothetically speaking, if we brought this into council and we set a condition that the developer would work with planning department on a reasonable color scheme while they continue to move forward with occupancy, would that be an agreeable resolution? I think my challenge there is we were never going to get to dictate color scheme based on what was approved. We never approved color scheme from the beginning. So now to get into color scheme feels like scope creep from the original. I mean now it feels like we're kind of like beating over the beating them over the head in my opinion.

Well, it's we're not in commission. We're looking for just something at this point in time. We wouldn't I I feel like you can dictate colors because had had they come in with just all brick and there wouldn't I mean it didn't have to match. There was nothing that said that it had to match phase one. And had they come in with all brick then we wouldn't even be here at this point. They could have they could have used any brick

because we we didn't dictate that. So since they didn't and that and that's what they asked for, I think we have a little bit of leeway on the color

game. I think, you know, in our role here, I I think and and I appreciate everything you've given us tonight. I think we are, you know, the tiebreers in terms of process, right? We we listen to Ann's interpretation of code and what's a major and what's a minor and I think we have that. Um, but I think we have to make a call that doesn't set necessarily a negative precedent, but ultimately gives the city a product that that they can be proud of. And I think that's our challenge tonight is so that we kind of tow that line where it's right in the middle between precedent and what do we end up with? And I for one do like some of the decisions uh in terms of not trying to compete. I think that resonates with me. Um, even though I know we're trying to have that barrier of development, it's it's hard not to ignore what's what's on the other side of the development. So, looking at the city as a whole, um, I'll just I'll just leave it at that for now.

I think I will Oh, I'm sorry.

I was just going to say a quick resolutions is really important. Um but I think how we resolve this is also very important because um you know I mean it is a code and you know we're being a asked to just overlook that code if we you know just move forward with with an approval and so um with the understanding that the city council might be the quickest route for them you know I wouldn't be opposed to us, you know, upholding Ann's decision. And it's just my input into the situation. But anyway, I'm interested in what everyone else thinks at this point in time.

We uphold it. Does the city council have authority to add conditions or is that planning commission? Okay. they can add and we could ask the developers to bring a comprehensive modification, you know, whatever they're it's either asis or it's, you know, we're going to make these changes, you know, um I think it could be more concrete as far as just not having some ideas floating, but actually proposed to the

one of the things that I did propose to them early on is can we call this out somehow as a different development. Maybe call it something different. Make it be two delineated developments. And because there's only one entrance and one exit, it's kind of hard to do and they all use the same amenities. But with they did offer to uh maybe erect some signage that said phase two so that there's a little bit of break in the two. I don't know that might be something that you would consider as well.

Yeah. So, as as I I think through this obviously I I I don't like that the process is not followed. Um you know very very adamantly don't like that but I go if they would have followed the process and brought us this would we have approved what is currently constructed as an elevation? would would we have approved it? Um, knowing that we can't get the exact brick and knowing that getting something kind of similar, does that look worse than something with with some changes along the elevation? Um, so I try to put myself in that shoes because if we deny it, council denies it, we're back deciding. Um and and so for me, we we're in a place that, you know, if this were before us, nothing was constructed, you know, I I think I probably would approve the elevation that's before us.

Agreed. And that's my my opinion. Agree. Agreed. We're talking about details, materials versus process. Like that's what we're struggling with. That's what I was thinking, kid. That's what we're struggling with.

But I guess back I mean what's our purpose and the purpose of the planning code if it's not followed? I guess you know like what's as a commission? Are we are we here to assume what we would have done if the process had been followed or are we here to hold to a code that is clearly stated? You know, I I think that's a big question I I struggle with. If we're if we have someone not following code, you have a major modification to a PUD, they don't follow it. This does set a precedent of if you don't follow if you if you want to make major modifications to a PUD in Conway then just spend a lot of money develop it the way you want go to planning and they'll give it to you because we're prodevelopment and we don't want to make anybody mad. I mean I that's a scary precedent to set for me personally.

Yeah. And and ultimately I mean that's that's the mindset when I first read it that I that I came in with. um and and thinking through what the process would be and would have been. And I think if they came in with a purple building, right? Um that's fair. O

ultimately we would have said, "Hey, you know, no." Um but coming in with if the brick was still available, I think we would absolutely say no. And we do have letter from the supplier again, you know, I did not call the the plant that doesn't exist anymore to see if it doesn't exist. Um, you know, and I I agree. I I think there there is a process and ultimately we're in a public forum. I think Ann absolutely did the right thing because if she would have approved it, then that is eliminating the public forum piece of it. Um, but doing the process right gives a public piece of it. And are we correct? And they had to put signs out for this denial.

Yes. So, all the notifications were all the same as if they were going through a major. Um, and you know, I personally I'm not a fan of penalizing someone just for the fun of penalizing people. I agree with that. Um, and you know, so again, I go back to they came in with I think a a reasonable option if they would have done the process correctly. So again, I I don't know that we're setting a precedent that, hey, come to the planning commission and they'll give you what you didn't apply for. And that's why I asked the building department the question of do they even look at the facades? And I think we got the answer of of no, they they don't.

Um, and so what's the process outside of a PUD? This is its own PUD. It is bound. We had that discussion earlier. So I think that does consider us, you know, neighborhood. um you know maybe and there are other buildings nearby all those all those factors to think about but I did I did come in thinking the same way you yeah I don't know what you do with that like you know I don't know what you do with it I mean I came in thinking that way and I don't know what what we do with that I'm just that's what I struggle with is just at at what point are we not doing our jobs

we're the non-governmental sort of appointed you know citizen citizen represented body and I think just by having this dialogue on the record establishes that this is definitely not a precedent setter and I would make sure it's on record that this is not to set a negative precedent process. So if it's not on record already, it's definitely record, right? And I and I agree. And again, if Brick was available, I think we we would all, you know, lean lean in a certain way. I can't can't speak for everybody. We wouldn't have been here.

Uh if I could just quickly u this body gives variances. That's one of the purposes of the planning commission is to if someone comes in and asks for a variance. Now, we we're a little far, but it's still the same thing. You people come in and ask for a variance to the uh planning code and uh if you think it's okay, you give a variance. So, I don't, you know, we didn't we don't want to be setting a precedence. uh we just felt like we weren't we uh and and again I'll mention that one of the things an seems to have uh issue with is the fact that it makes it look like a different project. But if there's a sign out front, there's one way in, one way out, and you drive past these buildings and then you get to the back part and it's never you're still in the same piece of property. You've not left anything. It's still the same piece of property. And you know, that kind of goes back to what I said about people looking at the outside. If you go into one of these apartments, phase one and one of phase two apartments, they are identical. And that is what people rent apartments for. It's it's not how beautiful it is. Again, that makes me sad to say that, but it's it's true. Thank you. Y

and I and I understand that and I do I I do think our planning director did did the right thing. Um you know bringing it into a public forum. I think it is the the correct option. Um don't disagree with that and so yeah. Any any other questions for him?

Well I have a question for us. So we got three options table for 30 days right? Uh number two, we can impose conditions no vote override against denial or we could vote yes, which goes with the denial and at that point we deny it, they have the right to appeal to council. Correct. Once it goes to council, they can then you said and they can kind of factor in everything economics and just they can look at it from a holistic standpoint. Is that correct? Yes, sir.

Okay. I personally see no benefit in tableabling it because we're going to we're not allowed to speak. No one's allowed other than the staff and the applicant are the only ones allowed to speak to each other. We can't go have some six-hour meeting, right? So, I see no purpose. We'll just end up back here in 30 days still looking at each other saying, "What do we do?" So, I think that would be unfair. Yeah. Yep. I think we take action one one way or the other. I think we're all in agreeance with that.

So, in that we will bring it into commission officially. and and regardless of how the vote goes, you know, we're grateful for your investment in the city. Want you to know that. Um obviously we are looking at a lot of lot of factors here. There is there is a process that that should have been followed. Um and we are not setting a precedent one way or the other. Um we are in the public forum and following that process. So uh does somebody have a motion? And can we have a reminder of how the votes work? If you make a motion in the affirmative, you are upholding the denial.

I would make a motion to to in the How did I write this down? Let me let me look at it. Make sure you make the motion to hold your denial. Okay. Motion should be made in So, a motion to approve the denial would be a yes vote. Okay. And a motion a no vote would be to overturn my denial. So, you're allowing them to move forward. Our emotions are always in the affirmative. Motions are always in the affirmative. And then a yes vote uphold your denial. A nay vote. A yes vote sends it to council. A no vote stops it here and allows them to move forward. Thank you.

A yes vote moves it on to the council faster than uh table or right. We can't table now. I think we're the we've taken tableabling off table. If we uphold her denial as a yes vote, then they they have the right to rip it off the building and do it per the plan or appeal to city council. And then if we vote no, then we are approving the modification as built. So question, is this one of those times where we all go around and individually do? Yeah, I think this time we're going to probably So, so we can count properly.

I think that's guaranteed. So, so we will we will need a motion. And again, the motion should be an affirmative. Before we get to that, um I know you said we could add conditions. You know, if we vote uh no. So, your motion would be to where it stops here. I was wondering if anyone had any conditions to vote no. I do not at this time. I don't. I I think the the painting the brick option looks worse for this. Yeah, the orange is a no for me. Yeah. Would someone like to kick off? I'll make a motion in the in the affirmative to approve and's denial and then we're going to vote.

I'll second that motion. Okay. And then we will do a roll call vote. So, if we vote for for this right now, if you vote yes, you are upholding it and they cannot get a TCO. Okay. And it goes to council if they appeal it. If they app if they appeal. Correct. Right. Alexander, would you like to call the role? Ethan Reed? No. Alexander Bainy, I vote no. Mark Ferguson. Yes. Jensen Tilki. No. Brooks Davis.

No. Kina Hagood. Yes. Cassidy Cook. Yes. Kevin Gabriel. Grace Reigns. Yes. Okay. We have Four yeses. One, two, three, four, five nos. So the denial is overturned. Job council. Right. We will move on to our next any items as decided by the commission or staff. No, this is all we've talked about for weeks and we don't have anything else.

Well, on that we will take a motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn. Second. Second. All right, we are journ