City Council - Regular Meeting

going to call to order the um August 11th, 2025 meeting of the Concrete City Council. Just mentioned before that we uh begin that devices are available for those with difficulty hearing. Uh they are available. They're transmitters and headphones. They're available at the Conquer TV booth, the black cabinet that's back there with the hand waving. Uh thank you, Michael. Uh and uh you can obtain that and use that and hopefully it will assist you in hearing. Um madame city clerk, let me see. Uh next order of business is the pledge of allegiance. Would you please stand and join me? I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, Madam Cler. Would you please call the role? Yes. Council Brown. Mayor Champlain. Religious. Councelor Fennessy, present. Councelor Foot present. Councelor Grady Ston here. Councelor Horn here. Councelor Ke excused. Councelor Kovik here. Councelor Curts present. Councelor Mclofflin here. Councelor Mcmra here. Councelor Slaughter here. Councelor Schultz here. Councelor Seiku present and councelor Todd

here. Thank you very much. Uh we have uh next the approval of meet minute the uh meeting minutes from the finance committee meeting of June 5th. the city council meetings of July 7th and 14th. Uh, may I have a motion to approve the minutes? Move approval. Second and seconded. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. I. Opposed? No. Your your honor. Um, I just wanted to say that I I have a correction for the finance meeting minutes. Okay. The correction is that I did vote on the police social worker uh position. It says that I've recused myself and I did not. All right. All right.

Are we ready for the vote? All in favor, please signify by saying I. Opposed? No. Eyes have it. The minutes are adopted with the change. Um, it's now my pleasure to welcome our summer 2025i UNH sustainability intern. Uh, welcome. Welcome, Beth. [Laughter] chairman Wernern and welcome to our intern

outside um good evening mayor and counselors I'll just do a quick introduction so we have the honor of having Kayla Majio as our UNH sustainability fellow this summer this is our fourth fellow that we've had through the UNH sustainability fellowship program so thank you each year for approving that program um we get a grant from UNH as well as support from the city to have them here to help us with various um goals related to our 100% renewable energy goal. So, um Kayla is a student at Northern Arizona University. She lived with us for the summer here. Um enjoyed our humidity. This is um but the um I'll pass it off to her while I bring up her presentation.

Good evening everyone, mayor and council members. My name is Kayla, as Beth said. Um I'm a graduate student from Northern Arizona University studying climate science and solutions. Um, I'm getting my masters and I had the opportunity to work with Beth and Rob this summer and it's been great. And so tonight I'm just going to share my results from my greenhouse gas inventory um, and provide some emission reduction strategies. I apologize.

I'm sorry about this. I'll just go. Okay.

Oh my goodness gracious.

Okay. Okay. So, um I just want to define a greenhouse gas inventory for anyone that's not familiar. Essentially it estimates the emissions that are produced by an entity in a specified time period. So in this case this inventory is on the local government of conquered as well as the community as a whole. Um the goals of these inventories are to specify and point out significant energy and emission sources within um an entity or community. Um this inventory also has the um goals of comparing to the previous inventory that was done in 2019 by a fellow before me. um and then evaluate the evaluating these successes of energy efficiency upgrades that have occurred since that past uh inventory and then provide emission reduction strategies um to see what can be done to help reduce emissions for the city and the community as a whole. So a little bit about the process first I had to collect data from quite a few people. I reached out to Unatil uh Liberty um to get electricity consumption and natural gas consumption data and then many members of the city department to get vehicle data. Um this was organized and processed in Excel and I calculated the consumption of um different buildings um with their electricity, natural gas and then I was able to calculate emissions from that. So the past couple weeks have been interpreting the results and coming up with some solutions to reduce emissions. So like I said, there's two inven two parts of this inventory. The first is the local government. So these are the different sources that I pulled data from. So all of the buildings are are owned by the government. Um street lights, vehicle speed, employee commute, uh waste or waste generation, water and waste water, and then process and fugitive emissions. A fugitive emission is essentially just the leakage of a gas. Um in this case, it's natural gas. community focused on mainly residential and commercial energy with some industrial transportation, solid waste generation, water and wastewater

treatment and then process and fugitive emissions as well. And so these are the results. Um the total number at the bottom uh 577,736 metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalents is what conquered as a whole emitted. That includes the community and the local government. The community itself emitted that 571,000 number with the biggest sector being transportation. Um the local government emitted 9,659 metric tons. This the biggest sector for the local government was both the water and wastewater treatment plants. Um, so you'll notice or maybe um if you look at the totals of the government and the community that does not add up to the 577 number because they both include the water and wastewater treatment plant. The government owns it. It's included in that inventory. However, it treats water from the community. So, it's included in both inventories, but to not double count in the total, it's only included once. Um just to highlight the Hall Waste Street Hall Street wastewater treatment plant generated 1,800 metric tonses which was the highest um emitting source for the government. And now I'm saying these numbers and what does it mean? Um what is 577,736 metric tonses of carbon dioxide equivalents even look like? It's the equivalence of burning 641 million pounds of coal in one year or 1.3 billion barrels of oil in a year. It's the electricity consumption of 120,000 homes in a year. Or if you wanted to drive your uh typical passenger gasoline car 1.4 1.5 billion miles, that's how much that would generate. Um, alternatively, if wind turbine 173 wind turbines running for a year would offset that um emission and then 579 503 acres of forests would absorb that of carbon

dioxide in a year. Now um what can we do about it? What can we do about these numbers? So some emission reduction strategies that I pointed out um I think everyone knows about LED lights, car pooling um which are very effective, but I wanted to mainly focus on the conquered community as a whole. So conquer has a lot of historic buildings um and retrofitting is a good way to bring these buildings up to standard. So that does include putting LED lights um also motion activated lights um lowflow water fixtures so that you're not using high pressure when you don't need to. Um light colored roofs there's um a lot of dark roofs when I was doing the GIS analysis and those only refle reflect 5% of energy whereas a light colored roof with light colored shingles would reflect up to 80% of energy. Um alternatively future proofing this is for the buildings that are going to be built in the future. So, I'm thinking of that parking garage right there. Um, something that can be done is rooftop solar on the top of it. Um, there's something called a solar canopy. Not only does that, uh, produce power for the building and the facility, but it protects the cars on the top from, um, you know, the sun. And then, um, building these buildings in mind with the knowing that in the future EVs are most likely going to be the predominant source or you know, the predominant vehicle. So building them now, even they don't want to install chargers right now if that's the case, building them so that in the future when that does happen, you know, you're not having to retrofit to add increased electric increase the electrical load. Um building management system is essentially kind of like a smart building. This um kind of monitors the efficiency of a building. So it the HVAC systems are automatic um kind of like the motion activated lights just and it monitors the efficiency of a building. And then to address transportation and vehicle fleet emissions, these are more simple um but they are very effective. So anytime you break very hard, if you

turn a corn corner really sharp, if you're accelerating very fast, that's not only putting more wear into your car, um it's reducing the fuel economy, you're burning more fuel while doing that, which is generating more emissions. Um, so cruise control is a great tool that I've learned to use a lot because that steady pace. Um, it one is better for your vehicle and two it's better for the fuel economy and you're not generating as much emissions. Um, reducing idling. Idling um more this there's a misconception that if you turn your car off and then turn it on, that's going to generate more emissions. After 10 seconds, that's not the case. If you idle for more than 10 seconds, you're generating more emissions than you would if you just turn the car off um and then back on. Finally, right sizing. This is um using vehicles for their intended purposes. So, do we need big um trucks if we're not hauling things? If we're just going from point A to point B, um you know, are we using these vehicles for their purpose, what they're designed for, because larger vehicles emit more. And then I wanted to end on a case study. Um something that I found while going through the inventory. Um, the Douglas N. Everett Ice Arena had a water heater that was replaced in 2022 and since the previous inventory in 2019, the consumption of natural gas went down 34% in that one building from that one water heater. Um, and so I think this kind of shows that these relatively small, you know, actions really do make a difference and, you know, a third of that natural gas consumption has been reduced from that one action. So, um, that's all I have. I want to thank you all for listening and, um, thank you, Robin. But,

thank you. Are there any are there any questions from the council? Councelor Curts, thank you so much. I'm curious if, um, your assessment of uh, vehicle emissions in conquer, does it include the traffic that goes through on 93? Yeah. So, the data that I use is it's from Google Eie. Um it's essentially a tool that tracks or it estimates miles driven. Um it includes 100% of miles that are inboundary and then 50% for crossboundary. Um so those miles are included. Do you have any sense of how it breaks out how much of the emissions come from in town traffic versus pass through traffic? That's a good that is not something I've calcul calculated yet. Um but that is a good thing that would be interesting to calculate.

Thank you. Yes, councelor Kirk Schulz. Sorry, you cannot ask questions after each other. Sorry, councelor Schultz. Yes, we to what degree did any issues with the state since we hosted government being the capital there was anything from the state that

like their electricity data or so that was so the local government I was able to get data from UNATIL. Um there were some challenges. Um the municipal sector for UNATIL included the local government, the state government and schools and then some municipal buildings were included in the commercial sector and then so it was all kind of aggregated but for the the local government specifically I was able to get like utility bills um to kind of separate it out so that I'm not including state buildings. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Um certainly understand that in Arizona u solar on over parking garages or parking in general

um creates shade for the vehicles as well as used for energy and you said that parking garage over there but we have three parking garages that aren't that parking garage over there. Um you would see that that is a recommendation on the top floor that we could add solar to each one of our city-owned parking garages and even some of our flat surface um lots that we have being solar fields in order to add um electricity uh into our uh I guess our inventory of electricity available electricity. You could see that even here up in the northeast. Yeah, I would add actually that if uh I know that NHTI at least a few years ago had considered canopies and I think that's maybe still an active consideration. However, if you go down to Amherst, UMass Amherst, it's quite striking how many of their parking lots are actually canopied by solar and then you can plug an EV into that. So, it does work very well in the northeast.

Awesome. Yeah, in um Massachusetts Department of Health, their DCR has a lot of state parks have canopies as well with solar. That's great. Thank you. I Yes. Thank you very much for the presentation. Uh so you were looking at data uh from the previous fellow

and I loved the um that you'd showed us about the the water heater at Ever Arena. How did we do compared to the last time? Are we getting better? Yeah. So it it's very difficult to compare that I realized pretty early into the inventory. Not only because so this inventory includes a lot more data. Um the previous inventory did not include include the water and wastewater treatment plants which are a huge source of emissions for the city specifically the government specifically. Um and then there were quite a few sources that were not in included. And so just because there's more data my emissions you know estimate is going to be higher. Um because the more data you include the you know the more emissions um and then the methods that were used in the 2019 inventory were also different than mine. Um the I won't get too like technical um but the electricity consumption the consumption I think we had or you got you know conquered had 10 more 10 million more kilowatt hours like that like you're able to compare those numbers because that's you know kind of concrete but the emissions are are more hard to Am I making any sense? Yeah. Yeah. Um but

what we what you could compare how are we doing? Yeah. So what what I could compare um electricity usage was of about 10 million kilowatt hours. Um natural gas I can't say for natural gas. Um that's the main number that sticks out to me off the top of my head. Um emissions though that would be more difficult to compare. Thank you.

Did you I I may have missed this in your presentation. And I apologize if that's the case. Did you do any see how I phrase this? Did you segment seasons? You know, for example, you know, is our carbon uh emiss are our carbon emissions higher in the winter than in the summer? uh uh you know, I I guess as our summers have gotten warmer, I would think that we're using more electricity, more natural gas for those who use, you know, their gas furnace for their air conditioning, things like that.

I didn't break it down by season, but I was noticing trends. Um the data that Unatil sent me, it was broken down by month. And so you saw, I think July was actually the highest month um for residential and commercial. So I think for all all three sectors, residential, municipal, and commercial. Um, so it peaked in July and then it went back down. Interesting. Yeah. So it's kind of falling because Phoenix has a similar. We know during the summer we peak and then we go down in the winter. I was expecting the opposite here where you would peak in the winter because you're using more natural gas to heat your home. Well, not to get too conversational, but those of us who have lived here for a while have seen the change. I mean, have seen warmer uh warmer winters uh and warmer summers. Uh it's interesting that we now peak in July.

Yeah. Thank you. Other questions or That's a second. Thank you. Thank you for your presentation and sorry if I missed it, but you said that the electrical usage from the previous um intern to you was a little higher. Could you elaborate a little what was the cause of it? Because I know you got some great recommendation here, but I know people that has like electrical car will tell us that they saw their electrical bill go by 100 $100 or$150. Is there any thing that you find during your research here that can describe that

what why we have seen that increase in LPS?

I think um well one the city has grown since 2019. Um I think when I was when the previous fellow did the inventory, there's only about 7 17,400 homes that were um occupied. Mine had about a thousand more. So that is just a thousand more homes using more electricity. So that's, you know, going to generate more emissions and more consumption. And then two, I'm sure with more electric vehicles since 2019. Um, however, because of the community power coalition, I broke it down so that the people that are on the clean 50 and the granite plus, the emissions were calculated differently because they're not using the same power, you know, the same grid energy as, you know, I guess the standard um plan. So, it the emissions are a little different, but in terms of consumption, I think those are the two things that would stick out is just there's more people and more EVs, I'm sure.

Thank you. Yes. City management. Is there a way to to correlate pricing with electricity with usage? Because some people who have lived in conquered for several years will recall the years when pricing went dropped high and there was no Christmas lights for that winter.

You drove around town and everybody Rob you remember this. There was no nobody put any lights out that year. The pricing was so high. Yeah. And then when pricing came down, people and then of course now that LED lights came out and people started using LED. So I I wonder if there's a way I'm not just talking Christmas lights. Is there a way but air conditioning and everything else is there a way to to to calculate that to grant is there a way to calculate that and and correlate that towards pricing? So of course is if pricing goes down dramatically usage is going to go up because people won't care about leaving the air conditioner on or heating system whatever it's going to be. What comes to mind is the duck curve is what they call it. And so during the day, um,

no, people aren't home tradition, you know, typically. And so prices are lower during that time. Um, because the stuff isn't, you know, electricity is not being used. But when everyone comes home from work, they're using the ovens, they're using, you know, washer dryers. And so I I I wish I knew more terminology about it um to better answer your question, but I know like time of use is a big thing. like EV chargers, right? The concern is how you know when do we plan our charging because if we all charge at one time then the consumption is gonna be high and then it's gonna they're gonna charge us more, right? Peak hours. Peak hours. Peak hours. Yes. Yeah. So, um

I would add to that that you you might be aware that the community power coalition in New Hampshire is engaged with conquered uh just recently on time of use study. So we have these focus groups of folks that are uh trying to get some um qualitative information from them in terms of how they operate through their day and then um there's actually people that have volunteered where um mechanisms would be placed in their homes so that you can get a much better sense of the actual data the time of use data that I think would be informative to some of our efforts later on. So I think that's an interesting um uh project and we will have uh certainly access and ability to communicate all of that data after that project is done. And Ben, what's do you know when it will be finished?

I think the focus groups are just now happening right now and then the studies over the next three months. So probably in the springtime we probably start to see some of the results of that study. I think it'll be useful. Thank you Kurts. Thank you Mr. Mayor. I'm just wondering if you'd be able to share the presentation with council or if it'll be up on the city website. It's wonderful and it's good information for us to be able to reference. Yep, I can share that with you all and we'll put it up. We have a sustainability page so I'll add it to Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Um, one last thing I would like to say is is another word of thanks for this council supporting our membership toy USA because much of the data crunching is actually done via a tool that uh is used Kayla used through USA. So that annual membership that you all have supported continues to be of value and deliver value. So we we thank you for that. You're welcome. Kayla, thanks so much for spending the summer with us. I hope that it was enjoyable as well as a work uh period of work. Uh and please come back again, visit us or even move here.

Good luck on the math. [Applause] That brings us to the consent calendar uh on our uh uh agenda. I'll note that items 14, 18, and 27 on the consent calendar have been removed and will be uh taken up uh at the end of our meeting. Uh do I have a motion? Motion to approve. Second. Motion to approve. Made and seconded. Any discussion? All those in favor, please. Excuse me, your honor. I I am recusing myself from items 2526 as my husband is a police officer. Thank you, councelor.

All those in favor, the motion is presented, please signify by saying I. I. Oppos? No. Eyes have it. Thank you very much. This moves us to the uh public hearing uh portion of our uh meeting. Since there are so many people here, I would just uh by uh way of explanation mention that we hold public hearings on each of the items uh on tonight's public hearing calendar and then we have our action uh session when the city councilors will actually discuss and take votes uh on each of those items in succession. Uh so madame city clerk item 36A.

It is an ordinance amending the code of ordinances title three building and housing codes building regulations for demolition review.

Thank you Mr. City Manager. Your honor, members of the council, the Heritage Commission has again reviewed the proposed amendment at their meeting on June uh 12th. And upon unanimous vote, the Heritage Commission voted to recommend that the city council change the proposed amendment to the following. This will be section D. The planning division shall also prepare a notice for posting at the site that identifies the building proposed for demolition, the date, time, and place of the public hearing. The notice shall be posted on the site by the planning division in a location that is visible from the street at least five calendar days prior to the public hearing. The sign shall be posted uh cont uh continuously as required. Be glad to answer any questions.

Thank you. Any questions for the city manager? Right. Seeing none, I'll open the public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to speak to item 36A? Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing. I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. Please come forward. I apologize. All right. Richard J, the Heritage Commission. Nice to see you. Nice to see you, too.

I just wanted to answer a couple of questions from the last uh what two city council meetings ago. Uh one was the the the use of wording will and shall. Basically both both of those words are used in um professional documents like that. It all goes down to the pronoun used. you know, he will or they will, he shall, it kind of thing. And and what's proposed in there was that um uh we will or shall um and pres it goes on on into the paragraph. And the last part of it was the uh one that was proposed was to put a put a uh clause that said if the signage was ever taken down during that time period that the clock would stop. Well, according to the HR and 673, which is the statutes for commissions and everything, you cannot on a demo review like that, you cannot have an indefinite time. It has to. So that time that's predicted in the beginning is the same one that follows. So what we'll do as a city and as a commission is just really make sure that that sign doesn't come down and express to the owner or the property manager or whatever that that sign needs to be up. That's all I wanted to say.

Thank you. I'll note Mr. Jakes is the chairman of the Heritage Commission. Uh any questions for Mr. Jakes? Seeing none. Thank you very much. Thank you. I like your hat, by the way. For sale. I have one. Uh, would anyone like else like to testify on item 36A? Going once, going twice. All right. Now, I do declare the public hearing closed. Madam City Clerk, item 36. It's an ordinance amending the code of ordinances title 4 zoning code chapter 28 zoning ordinance for nonconforming lots uses and structures.

Thank you, Mr. City Manager. The honorable members of the council, uh RSA 67439A was amended by House Bill 284 in 2021 to repeal the deadline of December 31, 2021. uh as uh as such is necessary to update the city's zoning ordinance uh to similarly remove the deadline. The planning board reviewed this proposed amendment on June 18, 2025 and voted to u uh recommend approval. This is really just a housekeeping order. Thank you. Any questions for the city manager?

All right, seeing none, I'll open the public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to testify on 36B? Seeing none, I'll declare the public hearing closed. Madam City Clerk, item 36 C. It's an ordinance amending the code of ordinances, title 2, traffic code, chapter 18, parking, stopping, standing in parking, parking prohibited during certain hours and months in designated places, modifying parking requirements on school street between Pine and Liberty Streets.

Mr. Thank you, Mr. City. The honor members of city council, the parking committee discussed the referral on June 30th, hearing testimony supporting a return to restricted parking and a desire to keep the parking unrestricted or alternatives to a return to the two-hour restrictions, ultimately following discussion and examining alternatives. Committee recommend that the north side of School Street between Liberty and Pine be restricted to no parking between the hours of 700 am and 3 PM Monday through f Friday during the months September through June. We'll glad answer any questions. Thank you, Mr. City Manager. Any questions for the city manager? All right, I'll open the public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to testify on item 36 uh C? Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing. Madam city clerk, item 36D.

It's a resolution appropriating the sum of $90,000 in the water plant improvements project a failed boiler and authorizing the issuance of water general obligation bonds and notes in the sum of $90,000 for this purpose.

Mr. city manager. The honor members of the council, unfortunately, the boiler casing has failed at the water plant, water treatment plant, and requiring replacement. This expense was budgeted. However, the boiler was not uh the boiler has not reached the expected replacement time frame. We anticipated it would hopefully last until 2030. Uh simply moving the project up four four years is what we're proposing. uh through aggressive pricing. The current cost replacement for the boiler is $87,120. We had budgeted $150,000 in 2030. So if you approve this project, we would remove that and when we do the next budget, that $150,000 proposed expense.

Thank you. Any questions for the city manager? Council Brown. Yes. Um the 90,000 to be bonded, is that coming through the water fund? Will it have an impact on rate increases? It will come through the water fund. It won't have a impact on rate increases until you decide you want to look at the rates again next year. Okay. Until next year. Other questions for the city manager. All right. Thank you. In that case, I'll open the public hearing. Item 36D. Is there anyone who'd like to testify?

Right. Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing. Madam City Clerk, item 36E. It's a resolution appropriating the sum of $14,000 for human services assistance and accepting a donation in the sum of $14,000 from the trustees of the Protestant Episcopal Church of New Hampshire for this purpose. Thank you, Mr. City Manager. The honor members of the council, I recommend that you take the money and and that you allocate the funds to the human services department to be administered under the guidance of the human services director for whatever welfare purposes we may need. Thank you. Any questions for the city manager? Council Brown.

Yes. I'm sorry. You said the the funds will go directly to human services department, not to a reserve or anything like that. It's going directly to them. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Any other questions? Just so for clarification, I've done that in the past. Okay. This isn't anything new. Councelor Horn, just out of curiosity, why do we have to do it retroactively to the last fiscal year? because the money came in on June 27th. Any other questions? All right. Uh, in that case, I'll open the public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to testify on this item?

All right. Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing. Madam clerk, uh, item 36F, please. It's a resolution retroactively appropriating to June 30th, 2025. The sum of $27,500 as a transfer to the highway reserve and accepting the sum of $27,500 from Shaw Supermarkets for this purpose.

Thank you, Mr. City Manager and members of the council. So, in this case, these dollars would be put into the highway reserve fund, which you would then have to take a vote and appropriate those dollars to use for whatever purpose you wanted to. Generally, use highway reserve funds for street paving, sidewalk improvements, whatnot. But this this would be money that you would have to allocate in the future. We would not be able to just go out and spend uh these dollars. Thank you. Any questions for the city manager? Councelor Brown. Yes. So, uh it's a financial contribution. How was this 27,500 calculated? Why? How did they get to that number?

It's whatever was calculated based on the planning board at the time. Whatever the planning board approval was, this would have been the requirement that they make that follow up. So, yes, follow up. So is it in lie of something else like in lie of a sidewalk? Generally that that's how it's done and many times particularly if we're planning on doing some improvements. I I I don't recall what was being done 25 years ago but um what when improvements were being made if we know something's going to happen instead of having somebody do the improvement and then us having to go have to rip that out later on take the cash and then use the cash for whatever purpose the city council wants to use it for in the future. But but it generally related to the projects. Follow up.

So if I wanted to see, you know, how they they came up with the 27,000, the planning board would have that documentation. Not necessarily. Oh, how would I find that? How would we You may not be able to find it. Because this is a planning board as a planning board decision that was made based on a calculation that the developer generally will come up with a number and negotiate with the planning board and the planning board will say that is acceptable to us. I can't tell you now. There may be a calculation saying this this is what it's going to cost to do something. We calculate but this again this is 25. So this is just this is through a negotiation with the planning board. That's how the number was. Okay. All right. Thank you. Any other questions for the city manager?

All right. That case I'll open the public hearing. Is there anyone who'd like to testify on item 36F? I'll close the public hearing. M city clerk. Item 36G. It's a resolution authorizing the city manager to enter into a purchase and sale agreement with the Boston and Maine Corporation of subsidiary of CSX Transportation Incorporated concerning the acquisition of portions of the Boston and Maine Northern Main Line Railroad for the purpose of facilitating the Marramac River Greenway Trail Project appropriating the sum of $140,000 in the Marramac River Greenway Trail Project authorizing the issuance of general obligation bonds and notes in the sum of $105,000 and authorizing the transfer and use of $38,000 from the recreation impact fee fund for this purpose.

Thank you, Mr. City Manager. And members of the council, on June 14, 2021, the city council approved resolution 9379, which authorized a city manager to enter a purchase and sales agreement to acquire 5.7 mile segment of the northern main line located between Horseshoe Pond Lane and the Ktook River from Panama for the sum of $431,500 for the purpose of extending the Mammack River Greenway Trail. The purchase and sales agreement for the uh northern main line which was signed on July 7, 2021 by the city and panam was expressly subject to the state of New Hampshire right of first refusal for the property in accordance with RSA 22860-a October 1821. The New Hampshire Department of Transportation in accordance with that RSA invoked its right of first refusal. However, prior to the final execution of memor of standing and finalization of the purchase sales agreement, CSX Transportation acquired all of the Panama Systems, Inc. New England holdings, which ultimately halted all pending real estate transactions related to the rail corridor. Uh the updated appraisal uh that we had to undertake working with CSX increased the purchase price by $103,500 from $431,500 to $535,000. In addition, the city incurred additional expenses for CSX negotiations, including an expedited appraisal, complicated title work, and survey. As a result, a supplemental appropriation amount of $143,000 is required to complete this purchase. staff recommends the supplemental appropriation be supported using a combination of general obligation bonds and recreational impact fees. And you can see that in the attached resolution. Uh so essentially we're back tonight because the uh now that CSX has it, they would like more money for this property. Otherwise, I wouldn't be back. We would have completed this purchase and been on our way. Um be glad to answer any

questions. Thank you. Any questions for the city manager? Council Brown. Yes. Um, I believe it was back in 2014 when we were originally talking about this. Uh, Mr. City Manager, you talked about the economic development of the Marramac River Greenway Trail and how great that would be for the city. I'm wondering how much how much money is in the economic development reserves fund and if that is something that we could consider applying to this. I don't know. Well, is that something that our finance director couldn't tell us? Look up. We provided all that information to the city council, I think just last month,

Friday. Friday. So, whatever it is, we provided to you on Friday. How much money is in the economic development reserve? I think we sent I think Yeah, I think we sent all that. Wasn't that I have from 2024 the end I believe was 252,000. That was fiscal year 2024. top of my head.

Welcome, Mr. Lebron. Mr. Mayor, members of the city council, off the top of my head, I don't recall exactly much is in there, but I can look up and get back to you. Okay. I just don't remember. Okay. I I just I know the MS9 report that the last week that was the end of 2020, fiscal year 2024. At the end of fiscal year 2025, that MS9 report will be coming to the city council hopefully in September. We're trying to finalize things after the end of the fiscal year. Yep. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions? The city manager C. Predict.

Thank you, honor. Mr. City Manager, um there's been much conversation through public testimony about a condition of the CSX purchase that um the trail or the rail line be removed. Is that our request or a request from CSX? CSX. Thank you. Any other questions for the city manager? Seeing none, I will open uh the public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to testify on item 36G? Still,

welcome. Please identify yourself. Good evening. Name is Dick Lemieux. I'm the president of the uh Friends of the Marramac River Greenway Trail. Uh I've been the president for 14 years. And sitting next to me is Kelly Oat Puck who is the chair of our board. So uh good evening.

Uh thank you for uh having us today and for allowing us to testify on this matter because we think it's very important. We've been involved uh in the development of this uh trail since well for 14 years. Um I'm just going to read a few things here here to you. Uh we've been working for 14 years, 16 years if you count the feasibility study and the public meetings uh where we determined that there was broad community support for this project. In 2010, we obtained a $17,000 grant to pay for an engineering feasibility study which determined that the trail along the river is is feasible. And we did all that before we approached the city with a plan to develop the trail. We we presented the plan to the planning board and they incorporated into the uh incorporated the concept of the MRGT uh into the uh master the city's master plan because of our involvement in the last 14 years. Uh phase one of the project was built in was completed in 2020 and it's it was built with uh zero zero city funds. We paid for that with a grant, a federal grant that we matched dollar for dollar. Phase two was built with only 18% federal funds, we paid for the rest in uh using a federal using a federal grant that we also participated in in in applying for. Uh overall, considering the funds the funds spent on the boardwalk, the panam appraisal that we paid for phases one and two, uh $99,000 has been expended on the Marramck River Greenway Trail to date. And the city has spent only 124,700 of that. So the city has has bought this trail for 14 cents in the dollar uh primarily because of our involvement. Uh in partnership with the city, we have raised over $2 million, including a $1 million uh grant from the transportation

alternatives program called TAP. We'll be mentioning that again. Uh and that that grant is uh sitting waiting to be uh allocated waiting to be appropriated for the first project on the rail trail, which will uh go from from the Bosquin Town line to Souls Falls Road. Um, if the city, we think if the city makes significant changes in the approach to the pro project in the uh uh in the scope of the approved project, we think the city runs a risk of losing that grant. Uh because the the the the project that we applied for was very specific. It was it was to pay for the construction of a rail trail from the city line to uh Swiss Falls Road. So, as some of you know, because some of you were here that when we were we spoke to you in 2021, this has been a long time coming. So, while we've been working on this since 2014, the city's been working on this for a long time, handinhand with us. Um the rail quarter that we t we're talking about was originally technically abandoned which means that it is no longer in use. The railroad has gone to the surface transportation board which is its regulator and said we're not going to use this anymore. We're abandoning our rail use. In 2017 when our board found out about this we were right on it. Um, we helped initiate discussions with Panama at the time, which owned the railroad corridor. We helped get the appraisal done. We helped pay for the appraisal. We were ecstatic when the city council voted to acquire it in 2021.

And then, pun intended, we got derailed. And now we're here again four years later hoping that this project will get back on track. Um, and we're asking you today to confirm the choice that you made in 2021. Um, that this is an important amenity to the city that this acquisition will benefit the residents and the community. Um, we had support by a petition in 2017 and in 2021. Dick told me the numbers are 2,774 signatures between those two petitions which were overwhelmingly conquered and Penuk residents. I know you've heard from a lot of our supporters recently too. We did not resubmit those petition signatures. So all of the new support is recent current support. And if you got the chance to look at the emails that came in today, even you will hear the passion in your residents voices. We talked to lots of them every year at market days, at the sunflower festival that was just this past weekend where the second phase of our trail is on the ground and beautiful and gets use every day for free. Your residents are passionate about this and we hope that you continue to be too. Um, and I just want to personally say thank you to all the people who have stepped up and emailed you and who are here today to show their support because that means a lot to us.

Is there anything else you want to say?

Yeah. And just to uh to confirm to say that we that we are in favor of you uh approving the resolutions before you tonight would be in our state. Of course, we want we want to see that happen. Uh we're not completely happy with the purchase and sales agreement. There are things that we would like to change if we had the opportunity, but we're we're willing to accept it the way it is. It's a it's a good deal. It's a good deal for the city. It's a good deal for the uh greenway trail. So, um we're going to have some more comments to make on some of the uh alternatives that have been suggested uh in the in the in the comments in the in the public testimony to the uh this item. Uh so we'll come back after those those those you know recommendations are made again.

Could you make them now so that we can just I mean if you already know that you're going to make those presentations. You want us to speak to the uh Sure. Sure. Okay. I'm ready to go. Um I'm going to ask uh Greg Bowers to come up here and help me with this. So uh we want to address four four major points that the Did you hear me say something?

No. We wanted to address four major points that the uh that the um scenic uh rail writers have made. The first one is that um since the rail since the rightway is 80 ft wide, uh there's plenty of room for trail. Um it's true that the right of way is 80 feet wide. Um but that leaves the rail itself and and the ties uh are 8 feet wide. So that leaves 30 feet 38 feet on each side. Split it. You have to have the trail has has to be on one side or the other. So Greg has uh sent some photos around uh that show the top photo will show uh what we're proposing and you can see that it's the red the red area uh goes right on top of the of the existing rail line and u that's shown to scale as closely as possible. That is the actual that is an aerial photo of our trail. It's not similarly from anywhere else. And on the upper right, uh you'll see the standard configuration for a rail with trail uh which is what uh the scenic people the scenic uh rail riders have suggested. So it's uh basic in this picture it shows the rail on the left and the trail on the right. So that trail would have to be built on essentially virgin ground where that hasn't been disturbed before. So all that would have to be dug up would have to be the soil would have to be dug up and removed um to dispose of anything that's uh not suitable like top soil. So top soil is good good for growing it's not good for building trails on and then they would have to bring in truckloads many truckloads of gravel to build up the build up the base to uh to pave on. So the uh the yellow uh w the yellow and orange wedges show that that the additional material would

have to be brought in to make the trail level. Uh and uh that that orange triangle shows that the that the property would have to be disturbed a a fair distance out from the uh from the edge of the existing railway. So, we're in that area. Now, if you go to the uh to the bottom left photo, you'll see the uh our our sketch of of what they're recommending. So, you still see the rail there that's not moved and the trail is alongside of it. So, there's a certain separation that's needed and then the the trail is built customarily. It would be a 10 foot wide trail with two twoft shoulders. Um so, and then the at the bottom right is a is a chart that's meant to illustrate that we haven't calculated the cost. That's not our job. Um but the uh there will be additional costs and there significant additional costs to go with that alternative because uh with our alternative there are no trees to be cut essentially. Uh there there are no bridges that will need to be widened. There would no be no culverts that would need to be lengthened. There would be uh no bringing in or taking out of unsuitable material and bringing in of gravel. Uh and the the cost estimate of of our our project and and the TAP grant that we submitted in 2021, it was 1.34 million and because of all the delays uh and inflation during that time uh we now think the cost would be about 2.14 million. So the size of the grant hasn't increased, our fundraising capability hasn't increased but here we have you know we have a significant increase in cost due to the delay. How much that cost will increase again if we go from the from the rather simple rail trail project to the rail with trail project. We don't know. It's not our job to calculate that. Um the uh why don't you take it from here?

Sure. Yeah. I think one thing Dick didn't mention was that uh building a parallel facility next to the existing track um has environmental impacts as well. Having walked the the corridor, we know that there are wetlands. We know that there are structures that Dick mentioned that are not wide enough to maintain two facilities. Um, so would you need to build a separate a separate bridge next to them or that sort of thing? Um, there's a lot of I think a lot of questions because we haven't studied that in depth. Um, and we're hoping the rail riders have. Um, doing a parallel facility is not as easy as it sounds. is if somebody somebody says, "Well, just build it right next to it." I think this this diagram illustrates that there are slopes involved, there are constraints, there's wetlands, um and there's permitting uh that would be compounded. I think so. When we use federal money, we have to go through the NEPA process. Some of you are probably familiar with that. um you have to do alternatives analysis and you have to arrive at um the lowest impact uh feasible solution and on grade or on on alignment would obviously be the easiest and most feasible and least environmentally damaging uh solution. So there's that that um hurdle as well. The federal government will make us go through that process. Um I guess I would leave it at that as far as you know just raising awareness that it's not as easy as it may sound to build build a parallel facility.

So, I should have introduced Greg. This is Greg Beckas. He's a member of our our board and he's also a registered professional engineer who designs trails for a living. So, he does know what he's talking about. Um, so that's the uh that's the first point. The second of the four points is uh is that the uh the suggestion that the that the trail the MRGT the March River Greenway Trail could be built between the rails. Immediately that's not a good idea because the standard width of the of a railroad track between the rails is 4' 8 and 12 inches. Uh it's been that way since uh before there were railroads in this country when they started in in England. At any rate, uh 4 feet 8 and a half inches is not enough not enough room to put a 10 foot wide trail. So there's an example uh and in fact the the people who suggested quickly suggest this example in the Cotton Valley Rail Trail which is uh here in New Hampshire and uh so it is it is a trail that's 4 and a half ft wide and it goes between the tracks for a while then it goes off to the side and then it runs alongside the tracks for a while and it goes back between the tracks. So every time you go from the from between the tracks to the side of the track, you have to cross a track. And these tracks are used by by unpowered buggies. I think they are um rail buggies that have that have railroad wheels that have flanges. The flanges make a groove in in the beside the rail. So when you're trying to get from one end one side to the other on your bike, your wheel gets caught in this in this groove and people go down. So, I went I went to a a place called Trail Links Trailslink.com and they had had 68 reviews of the Cotton Valley Rail Trail. I only looked at the first 40 um the most recent 40. Out of those 40 reviews, 31 reviewers reported something negative about the safety. They said, "Watch out if you

ride it." They said, "Uh, it's dangerous. Uh, there aren't enough warnings. Um, you can't pass another cyclist when you're going in the same direction. So, somebody has to stop. The same thing with with a pedestrian. If you're trying to pass a pedestrian, the pedestrian has to pull over, pull off to the side. Um, 13 reviewers reported personal injuries to themselves or others in their party, ranging from a cut knee to one person getting a concussion and a fractured arm. Uh, both the same person. One reviewer stated, "Nine writers went in, only four came out unscathed." uh there were only nine out of the 40 reviews that didn't mention any mention any hazards or any safety issues. So a trail between existing rails would be in our opinion would expose the city to unnecessary liability and would expose our neighbors and us to inherent dangers. So you know please don't don't consider that that alternative any any longer. Uh the third the third item is that that the city should renegotiate with CSX to leave the rails in place. So I don't know if if if they did any uh cost any looking looking into the cost, but we did. So uh we found that the that the price the salvage value of a steel rail varies between $40 and $75 per lineal foot. It sounds like a lot of money and it's a big range, but there are a lot of factors that go into the into the price. So, uh, when the when friends of the, uh, the Northern Rail Trails when Friends of the Northern Rail Trail bought a section of the of this corridor that's just to the north of the section we're looking at, and they were asked to remove the rails, uh, they were they were asked to hire a railroad contractor to remove the rails and to transport

them and store them on New Hampshire DOT property. When they did that, the people who were in charge on the on the NRT on the Northern Rail Trail uh end, uh spoke to the rail railroad contractor who told them that that that rail is worth $2,000 per stick. So, a stick in railroad language is a 39 foot length of rail. Why 39 feet? Because that's the length of a box car. And that's how they transported them forever. So when we use that estimate, it comes out to $51 per lineal foot. There are 60,200 lineal feet of rail in in the 5.7 mile section of uh of rail of rail property that we're looking at buying. So that steel that's in the corridor right now has a value between 2.4 and five 4.5 million. If we base the the estimate on the on the cost of the value given by the the railroad contractor, it comes out to 3.1 million dollars. So that's that's more than five times the value of the land that the city is buying. So if the city goes back to the CSX and insists on keeping the rail in place, you can expect to pay the value of that rail. It's worth more more more to them than it is to us. Um so uh to be fair um they have suggested that we leave the rail in place only on the half of the trail that they're using. So the the additional cost if they remove the the rail from half the quarter and left the rail on the other half the cost would be about 1.5 million. So to to do that to be able to to build a rail with trail you'd have to factor in a million and a half dollars to pay for rail that would be left in place. That's assuming that CSX would even be willing to do that. And then the additional cost to build on the side, removing all the material, you know, building a trail on on area where there

isn't there isn't a real there isn't a bed already. And uh and fourth uh Gary Gary Lelanc from the from the uh the railriters has indicated that uh that his displeasure that the that the city didn't consult him during his process during the process and uh I can tell him that the city didn't consult us either. Uh, I was pounding on Matt Walsh's door uh probably uh twice a month while he was in charge and then I was also bothering uh Beth Fenceer when she was doing the negotiating and believe me they didn't tell us anything. So, we didn't know what was going on until until the agenda for this meeting uh hit hit the public uh the public website last month. So again, we we want to encourage you to to complete the process we started in 2015, whenever that was. Uh we want you to we would like you to basically get this project underway. We're poised and ready to start raising money to match the the TAP grant and we don't want to see us lose the TAP grant. It was it's really hard to get and we've been waiting for a long time for this. So I'd be willing to ask answer any questions.

Thank you. Any questions? Thank you. Uh, Mr. Bakus, professional engineer and trails guru. Can you explain to the council in our audience what the National Trails System Act 1983 is? I cannot. You can't item. I'm sorry. Okay. Thank you. Can you Can you since you asked? Matter of fact, I can I'll express it later so other people can speak. Appreciate it. Yes. uh the TAP grant. Could you repeat again how much that TAP grant is that you need to find? We need to

So the the uh the estimate that we worked up when we applied for the grant, I think it was 2021, the estimate was 1.337 million. Uh the maximum size of the grant that we could apply for is1 million and it needs to be matched 20 cents for each dollar uh for each 80 cents. So to match to match the federal to match a million dollar grant would take a a fundraising of $250,000 but the h the 1.25 million wouldn't be enough to build the trail even at that price we were limited by the maximum amount of the grant. So if if we if we were still building it for that price we would have to raise 334,000. But since the costs have gone up so much uh right now if we were to if we were to do it right now it'd be about 1 we'd have to raise about 1 $2 million to uh completely fund the trail.

Could you say again what is the expiration of that tap grant? How it it didn't come with a with a fixed expiration date, but we've been we've been the state has been allowing us to has been holding it for us uh since 2021. So it's uh it's four years old, but I think the way they do it is they they'll they'll spend the oldest money first. So the the actual you know the money is fun. So the the the money that they actually awarded us not the same as money we will eventually get. So, they're rolling that rolling that money forward to other projects. We feel we're on thin ice right now. It's been so long. The feds don't like to let projects languish.

So, the sooner the better. And we have heard that DOT uh has recognized that escalation has been occurring on all of these TAP projects and they are trying to increase the the grant amounts beyond what we originally requested. So we're hoping we can at least build the same length that we were originally hoping to build, but that'll increase our match challenge. But one more followup followup. Yes. So imag you know in best case scenario um when do you want to start fundraising? When do you want to submit? What's your ideal timeline for that happening?

You approve this grant or this uh this resolution tonight. We'll start raising money tomorrow and submit when you follow and when would you when would you hope to submit it by? Submit what? The the funds. So you said 250,000 is what you would need to raise to then submit it to the state to access the T. It isn't needed until it starts getting spent. Okay. So uh through the design process and the construction process, we would help the city. Okay. Um fund it.

It's not if I could if it's not it's not just a it's not a a grant. The state's not going to the feds aren't going to send us a check for a million dollars. It's a it's a reimburseable program. So they will issue we we will ask hopefully uh as soon as we are we purchase the land or maybe even before we actually purchase it we'll ask for u the city should be asking for an authorization to proceed when they get the authorization to proceed that sets the date after which any charges that are eligible can be reimbursed. So then the city would be submitting monthly, quarterly bills as they pay them. They'll be submitting bills to the to the state. The state will submit them to the feds. The feds will pay the state. The state will pay us. And the city will pay the, you know, contractors or or engineers.

We don't get paid. Yeah. We don't get paid. We're an all volunteer board. Followup. Yes. So that's ongoing. So you know, let's say so you incur costs, let's say 300,000. Do you keep fundraising and will can you continue to fund raise and continue to get money? That's an ongoing process y for this grant.

Yes, we've been raising money for 14 years. Um we need the best the best best applications for for uh asking for grants are when you have when you have a a demonstrated need and a deadline. So we know when we know we we need to raise so many you know $100,000 by such and such a date we tell the you know the granters that and that that helps make our case. So we have we have not started earnestly raising money to match the tap grant yet even though it's been there since 2021. That doesn't mean we've been sitting in our hands. We've been raising money for the phase two, phase one, phase two and now phase three which we hope to be completing this year.

Nice. So this is just loading the pipe. Yeah, we hope this is We hope this is phase four. Any other questions? Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. testify. Yes, Mr. Blank.

Mr. Mayor, City Council. I am Gary Leblanc, owner of Scenic Rail Riders, along with my family. Uh, thank you for having me here. Welcome.

Um, I have a few things that I'd like to read. Okay. Okay. Uh first off, um please know that we are not trying to stop the purchase um of the rail trail happening. Okay. That's not our intent here. U we're only looking to see if we can coexist um as two entities. Uh we think it's beneficial for both us and the city. We bring in a lot of people. Um and we would hope that you guys would consider that. Um, now back in 2019, the city was very welcoming um to us uh with the idea of starting a small tourism business. Um, and we were grateful for that. Um, now now it seems like the city just kind of wants to give up on us as a small business, which we don't feel is is great at all. Um, you know, hopefully you guys will consider things differently. Um, Nation already has two other rails, trails with rails, and they're in the process of getting a third in the Madison area. Um, I don't know if you guys are aware or not, but there's another one going to be happening up there as well. Um, Trail with rail. Uh, these trails can work and they are safe. Um, you know, so they just have to be done properly and as the engineer mentioned, you know, as long as it's designed properly, it can be safe for both. Okay. Um as to let's see okay um today I communicated with CSX and they told me that when you guys sign the PNS my lease and the rails are going to be assigned to the city at closing. Okay. So I'm going to become your tenant. let's say um when you guys sign

the deal and CSX is expecting you guys to tell them what you want to do with the rails, whether you want all of them to go, whether you want part of them to go. Um they're expecting you guys to tell them what to do. Now, I propose to them um would you consider retaining ownership of the rails? You know, removing the southern half that we don't use. remove those rails and retain ownership of the rails that we do use and allow us to lease those rails from CSX while they sit on your property. Uh, and they said that, you know, we would have to discuss that with the city. Uh, so they're amendable to it and it's not going to blow up your deal if you go back and talk to them. Um, you know, I didn't get that feeling at all from talking with Jessica. Um, and as Dick mentioned, the rail corridor is 82 feet wide. So, I think we can have enough to fit in there. Um, you guys are looking at doing from Sulles Falls to the bridge as the first section of uh trail. I don't know if you're aware, but three quarters of that section had a second track alongside of it. Um, so the base is there um for threequarters of it. Okay. The rest of the trail is about 800 feet that would need some additional work where it's not wide enough because the banks drop off on both sides. Um, I have some suggestions for that as well. Um, I just need somebody to listen and and somebody to talk to to go over those suggestions. Um, thus point, you know, the only answers I've gotten are we can't talk to you about it because we don't own it. Um, well, you're about to own it, so when can we start talking? you know, would be my thing. Um,

okay. So, that's the northern piece, the first section. And I don't know what the which section would be next. Um, I haven't heard. Um, but assumably the section between SS Falls and Second Street. Um, you have an alternative already in place there that people already walk and bike. Um it's the sewer line easement that runs from our parking lot all the way to Second Street. Um city did substantial amount of grading work on that last summer. Um and you know I mean I've driven my truck down there to do some maintenance on the track stuff. U so that pathway already exists and it has a substantial base um you know that you could easily put a little bit of gravel down and just pave it right away. That's one mile of track that could be done without having to even worry about the railroad stuff. Um, so that I would propose using that corer. Um, of which the city owns basically the majority of it. There's a a piece that's about 480 ft long that's owned by Unatel, but assumably you guys have an easement through that already. Um, so I would assume you have no problem getting an easement for the trail to go over that 480 ft. and then the additional 700 feet you're going to require with this purchase, which is my parking lot, and an additional 500 feet um in from it. So, you guys would basically have most of that um as being owned by the city as it is. Uh so, that seems like a simple solution for that one mile stretch in my opinion. Um okay. All right. Now, the the whole thing with tourism,

um I spoke with Mr. Mayor this morning, my wife and I. Um we did not get the feeling that the city of conquered was really concerned about losing the the amount of tourism we're bringing in. Um we bring in anywhere between 11 to 13,000 people a year. Uh 94% of those people are from outside of the conquered area. Okay. Uh 50% of those people are from outside New Hampshire. Um I mean we get people from all over the US. We get people from outside of the country. They come to New Hampshire to vacation. They find us, you know, and in some cases we have people coming to New Hampshire just to do our rail bike tours. um they come and do our tours, they go out to dinner, out to lunch. Um so they're spending money, you know, in other businesses in conquered from coming to see us. Um we've got very good reviews. Uh we run a very organized and very nice uh tour for people. Uh and people really seem to enjoy it. Um to lose that if we don't have to I think would be a shame. Um, you know, I mean, Conquered doesn't really have a lot of big tourist attractions. Uh, I think we're probably one of the biggest ones that are bringing people to Conquered. Um, I mean, you guys can prove me wrong, but you know, in my opinion, we're kind of the biggest tour attraction you guys have. Um, so I think that should be considered uh in this. Um, so basically I'm imploring the council to work with us and give us a shot at proving um, you know, that we can coexist with a trail. Um, you know, that's that's our feeling with Scenic Rail Riders. Um, we're a small company, you know, it's a it's a mom and pop shop. It's my wife and I and my three kids. Uh, that's it, you know, and it's like we're not getting rich here. We're

just making a a living. Um, you know, and we'd like to continue doing that. I mean, I look at this as, you know, we would like to be here another 30 plus years. You know, we're in this for the long run. Um, my two boys want to take it over when when I'm done doing it. Um, so we're not planning on going anywhere. So, if you guys would consider that um, and talk to us, let's see how we can, you know, possibly make this work. Um, you know, and as far as uh leasing the rails, I mean, that's something I'm willing to work out with CSX, you know, and that won't cost the city anything. It'll be, you know, us paying CSX to lease those rails. Um, and down the road, I mean, we can set lease agreement up so that down the road if something happens and, you know, we're done and we pull out, we can have it arranged so that CSX can come and collect those rails at that point. um without a cost to you guys. Um so that's that's our proposal.

Well, thank you. Any questions for Mr. Leblanc? Uh Council Credit, thank your honor. Mr. Lublank, thank thank you so much for coming out this evening and for sharing with us the passion you have for your business and this um tourism that you bring to our community. It really is appreciated by the city council. The city council was not the entity that approved your business um back in 2019. It was the planning board and the planning board had mentioned to you at that time this rail corridor project and had asked you specifically what the plan was if this was to move forward and I believe that your response and you could probably confirm that or not was I'll figure it out at the time. Here we are at

the time and here we are. Um, but I did want to just express my appreciation for you being here and hope that we can work together. Thank you. Thank you, Council Horn. I certainly don't want to lose your tourism. I've personally had friends come in from out of state to go with me on um the rail riders. Do you employ anybody locally that isn't your family there? Yes. Yep. We employ about seven to eight people a season. Every season. Every season. Yeah. And And it's actually the same people. They come back year after year. My employees have been with me for five or six years now. Follow college, high school students maybe or

um mostly college. I've had a couple of high school kids this year from conquered area. Um kids in college. Um so I lose them basically now. Um and then I've got um that out of college as well. Um so Brown. Yes. So, I was just out by your property today and I you had a great display of uh different things available and also distances to other attractions. Um but I'm interested in you said that the city did a lot of work on the section right next to the rail. Yes. What was that? Was that in support of the business? Um

no, that was you know they're basically shoring up that access road that they use to service the um sewer line. Okay. Okay. because there's a sewer line that runs from Suss Falls all the way to Second Street down that whole corridor. Um, and they they maintain it. They mow the grass. In fact, the other day I was there, I had to wait on my speech because they were out there with their hedge trimming machine trimming the hedges back on both sides. Right. I saw that. Um, thank you. That was my question. Other questions, Mr. Leank? Uh, how many days a year are you open? uh about 128 or so.

How much do you charge? We charge $95 for a two seat bike and $175 for a four seat bike. Okay. And that's up and back. That's round trip. Yeah. Round trip. Yeah. And that's usually takes about an hour and a half to an hour and 45 minutes. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Welcome. Thank you,

Mr. Schwagger. Welcome. Good evening, mayors, members of city council, city manager, city clerk. I'm Roy Schwiker. I'm going to say something that no one else is going to say tonight, and that is I think you should vote this down. And the reason is that conquered is not a rich community. conquered the average family income is $10,000 less than the county as a whole. And unfortunately, we, you know, seem to have people working for the city that uh make good money and don't seem to understand this because my feeling about this whole thing is the state wanted this piece of land for their permanent rail corridor and we should have let them buy it. We shouldn't be spending city money buying this thing that the state would happily buy for us. The state is also spending, as he's talking about, good money to build rail trails. Why are we, you know, looking to find city money to build rail trails when the state would do it for us? So, I would like to suggest you not only vote down the additional funds, but you take the funds previously allocated, you put them back into surplus, and you use them to reduce taxes. I think if you ask people in this city, that would be what they'd want to do is let's let the state pay for buying this railroad and let's let the uh state, you know, look into the rail trail and let's use the $400,000 or whatever it is to reduce the tax rate. And you know, maybe this tax grant they're talking about, they could use it for that or maybe they got other money to pay for it. But I don't think the city taxpayers should be paying for this. And the other thing I'll say is because you're going to ignore that you're the city council. You like to spend money. You're going to insist the city should

pay for this instead of the state. I think that both of the previous people have had, you know, good points in what they're talking about. For instance, I think that uh when it comes time to building this rail trail, it's probably going to cost far more to dig up those ties, which it hazardous waste and grade it off than it would be to pave the utility easement. So that whole segment they might do better to use the sewer ement even if there wasn't the rail riders to talk about. I actually have not only walked the segment of rail trail in conquered, I've also walked the one in Madison. And note that you I use the term walked. Most of the people on that trail walk it. They're not riding bicycles and breaking their collar bones. They're not riding those speeder cars which are powered and are run very rarely. They're just walking along. And it is possible to share if you have that attitude. the particular thing that they have to do is the same thing that they're gonna have to do here. There are bridges on that sectional line. It is not easy to, you know, widen a bridge. So, that may be where you have to put things together. And I think that Mr. Lemieux is correct. You cannot build a reasonable bike path of the sort he likes between the rails. and he would like it would be far cheaper for them to take up the rails, take up the ties and trade it off flat than it would be to try and put it on one side or the other just as I'm sure that uh Mr. Leblanc has no idea that he really wants to put down rail ties on one side or the other existing track and put in new rails. So I think that you know sharing has got to be a you know process that they've got to agree on in some manner and I think that this is the sort of thing you know don't rush into buying this you know find out how much of it can you you know really put both

of them in let everybody get together on what's going to happen on the rails I feel like uh maybe a new 39 ft rail of you know standard width standard thickness is worth that kind of money. But those rails have been sitting out there a long time. They're probably substandard for current rail use. I have a feeling that, you know, they may basically hardly be worth the cost of picking them up because they're old, rusty rails that are too thin, but nobody really knows because nobody has gone directly out and asked CSX what they want for them. They've talked to a rail contractor who I don't know if they've seen these particular rails or not. And so, you know, they need to, you know, get some better numbers. They need to rush into this. And I'm just afraid, you know, I was very pleased 14 years ago when they were talking about the Marramac River Green Rail Trail. They're going to build two trails on both sides of the river. And that was great. 14 years later, they've essentially built no trails. What they've done is they've paved a section of trail through a city park off of Manchester Street. They've paved an existing road past the sunflower thing. So, all they're essentially doing is spending money on paving existing trails. They haven't come up with a new thing at all because they won't spend the money to, you know, bridge that swamp. And part of the reason is that they want to goldplate everything. They want this huge wide paid trail. And I think if the city is going to start paying for this, we need to say, okay, you're paying for it. You can build it as wide and with pavement if you want to, but the typical rail trail in the state is not paved. It's gravel. It is far cheaper. It's not as wide as they're talking about. So, we could build a very nice rail rail trail and have it done already if we built it to a reasonable standard for a trail instead of this goldplated wide pave thing. We could have had that uh swamp

thing built by now if we you know left the existing things in gravel instead of paving them. So we need to you know tell the greenway people sorry you know don't ask us for any money if you want to build this fancy paid trail. We would rather have more of it built to a lesser standard because the people that walk on it that's fine. People can bike on a gravel trail. I do it all the time. You can get strollers, wheelchairs that you can use on gravel. They're perfectly commercially available. So, I think we'd rather have a trail that's actually built instead of this pie in the sky wide pave trail. So, anyway, that's what I've said is first off, you shouldn't pay the city money for this at all. And if you do, you should uh you know, let these two parties work out with CSX what that uh rail is really worth and see if they can make it work. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Schwer. Any questions for Mr. Schwer? All right. Thank you very much.

In the back.

Welcome. Thank you. I'm Don Moyer. I'm vice president of the Friends of the Northern Root Trail. Hopefully, you're all aware of the Northern. It's a 59mi trail that goes from Bosma to downtown Lebanon, connecting 10 New Hampshire communities, and we hope conquered becomes the 11th. Um, I'm happy to report that we're ready to connect. We recently completed projects last month where we installed new decking or we installed decking on the northernmost bridge of the island and installed new surfaces on the north and south entrances bridge. So, our trail users can ride from the Hannidusen Memorial to downtown Lebanon 59 miles away. It's my understanding, I could be wrong, but I believe the TARP grant that you have is dependent on connecting with the Northern. We've done our part and we're ready to connect. Um, the Northern Rail Trail is an important recreational asset for the state of New Hampshire. We um have again 59 miles and if you can bring the city conquered residents direct access to that trail, it's just going to enhance their lives as well. So a lot of benefits for your benefits for your city residents. So in closing, I just strongly encourage the city council to vote and approve the author authorization of the purchase of this land. Thank you, Mr. Weir. Any questions for Mr. Weir? Thank you very much.

Thank you. Yes, sir.

Good uh good evening. My name is Brennan Bourke. I am a resident of Penuk and today I am coming to speak in support of the rail trail. Um it's quick. So, a few weeks ago, uh, a few Penuk council members. They had some res they, um, hosted a meeting and some member and, um, council members listened to residents concerns when it cames to bikes on the road, whether that be ebikes or bikes in generals. And today is the opportunity for our city to take the first steps in becoming a completely microoding. It will. And with this rail trail, we will unlock the potential for our city, connecting us to the rest of the state, the 59 miles throughout the rest of the rail trail. Um, a family will soon be able to take a bike from Penuk and will be able to ride into into downtown conquered with this rail trail. And I believe this is a very important rail trail, not only for recreation and tourist opportunities, but also for people who might be using it to get to work, might be riding from Pen Cook or from Boswin to get to work in conquered. Um, so many opportunities await with a rail trail and I don't believe a city should allow these opportunities to be stifled by one single company. And I believe that unless the city is proposing they fund for the fund the ties that stay and fund the whole section of the rail trail adjacent to them. I don't believe the city should be funding any any bit to keep the rail trail and we shouldn't be delaying this pro um project further than it already has for my entire adult life. This project has been talked about and I think it's time that we finally get this project going. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Bork? Seeing none. Thank you.

Welcome. Good evening. uh city council mayor um city manager and other city officials. I'm Rob Moral um moral family. We operate moral farm in Penook and also um the island on Horseshoe Pond. We own the property. One of the things uh so essentially on both ends of what the city's talking about today. So I'm going to break up um what I have. I have a few concerns. I'm going to state I'm not opposed to the trail itself. Um, as Mr. Leblanc mentioned, I think there needs to be more cooperation. Uh, I can say as I've got here, um, Scenic Rail Riders has been a great asset. I remember coming to the planning board meeting when they first proposed of this because as we were notified, you know, of it uh what's this? How is this going to affect our business, our land? I spoke I was asked at the time, are you for or against? And I remember coming up here the you know microphone saying I don't know. I have some questions and concerns. Met Mr. Leblanc that night. It's been an excellent relationship since day one. I believe he would say the same thing. From our standpoint, it has been tremendous. Uh the rail bikes, one of the councils has mentioned this evening. They've been on it. Um, I know of people from other states that have been on it because they says, "We went through where one of the drawing cards for their business because of the

scenery and what they say." I mean, to to see it every day and the people, you know, and the joy that they've got. I don't really know why you want to go do all that, but anyway, to each his own. Uh but the smiles and you know they were looking at the cattle it's it's just it is it it would be a shame for the city of con to lose that and as mentioned and particularly up the farm I am old enough I've grown lived there you know most of my life either there or at Hoshu bond uh there was double tracks there I remember two you know trains meeting each other right there so there Here's a very large portion of that, you know, section they're talking about immediately that's already a rail bed. Um, so you know that, you know, they did misdr that a little bit because it's there probably is grown up a little bit, but your base is still there. Um, so you know, I just want to make sure the city council I honestly think work together, folks. We get two assets here. I do have with this purchase, we have livestock. We have animals. My lifetime here again, a long time. The borderline fences, you may say, are literally up against this corridor. Even as recent as this afternoon, was there somebody that was out there? Because we we already see the people using it. What do they do? They go over their padding. Uh trying to, you know,

they're talking, you know, one hand it's kind of nice. On the other hand, there's safety issues, health concerns. In the late 1990s, early 2000s, I can't remember the date, there was a tremendous hoof and mouth disease outbreak in the United Kingdom. This country was on pins and needles. Um, if that were to have come over, it would have been existed. The only way you do it, you eradicate the cattle and burn the farms.

It's thousands of, you know, cattle, sheep, blue lines were eradicated. That outbreak was caused unfortunately by human beings on trails such as this interacting with livestock. I know people It's It's scary to hear it. It's not comfortable, but that was the end result. What's the probability? It's probably not real great, but it's definitely there. It's a concern we have being in the livestock industry of the interaction. Um, so, you know, I've suggested the Marramac River people have said they've worked on this for 14 years. I've spoke multiple times. uh when they've walked it back several years ago and I know there were counselors both present and former counselors that were on those walks at times um spoke here four or five years ago when you made the panam agreement have spoke at other various meetings about this every time the city has says asked them you've got to work with your abusers you've got to work you know with us with the concerns I actually had a gentleman that's on the conservation commission after one of the times I spoke met him somewhere and he says I came down there and I saw your concerns you do have some concerns that need to be addressed for this but I'm here to tell you today not once has the people from the Marramac River Trail Group contacted us about any of this we have to ask act we have three accesses is railroad crossings on this route. What's

going to happen to that with the trails? You know, I mean, one of them at least is used multiple times a day. That's not working days. That's 365 days a year that we have to access that one of them to take care of cattle. Um, you know, what are going to be, you know, the safety measures put in by these people on the trails. As I mentioned, I remember the trains running down. It was and I'll say literally beat into me as you watch out for the trains. I I to this day I'm coming up to those crossings. It's been many, many years since there's been a train. I'm still slowing down looking both ways and double-checking because is there a train coming? that how much that was impressed when I was a young child. I mean, I remember when us kids first started driving, one of my father's rules were we could drive up from the field. We were not allowed to cross the railroad tracks. One of the older adults would either work for him or himself, somebody else went across the railroad tracks. So, you know, from that portion safety, but it's got to be addressed um you know that Horseshoe Pond, the highway of the homeless. I know councilors this the open space opening this up is going to create a bigger highway. We have the friend and kitchen right on that corridor. Councelor Todd, I mentioned to him, Pentac going to have a bigger problem with the homeless people because no, they are not on the trails. When the people are on the trails,

they use that to be mobile. That's going to make it easier for them to go up. And where do they go? Well, currently the first stop is our property on the north side in on the inside of Horseshoe Pond. That's wooded. Just this evening, I was It was mentioned to me that I think we have campers again. If we do, that'll be either the third or fourth time this summer that we've had to get out. We had an incident. Not only there, we live right there at 278 North Main Street, right on the corner of North North Main Street in the old closed section going down the commercial street. Last week, there was an individual right in our yard walking across there almost. And I was able to get a a photo of it, picture. the police officer as soon as she saw it, she was on a radio and said, "This is a person we've been looking for for a couple of weeks." So, it's when you live there and you deal with it every day, it's real. I think if we all work together, this would be good. But, you know, that's what it's got to be. We've got to work together. that from the horseshoe pond end to the you know Bosquin town line essentially there are three land owners that own the majority of that property along there city of cockit state of New Hampshire and my wife and I and they're a approximately all the

equal amount and it's give or take it's approximately 90% of the land that abotss it the land that the railroad track goes through on our property on Horseshoe Pond is not owned by CXS that is strictly an land lot on both sides it literally goes through our property so and We have to access that. I don't know what the plans are because as I mentioned, they've spent thousands and thousands of dollars, but have they even had a discussion with a butter? Um, hasn't happened to our knowledge. Um, so you know, these are concerns that we have. Um, I' I'd be more than glad to take any questions. You folks, I've talked with several counselors and the mayor um and anybody out here over the years and this almost feels like a repeat performance this evening, but I understand.

Any questions for Mr. Mora? Cas.

Thank you, Mr. for uh testifying here today and thank you for enthusiastically um stating your relationship with the business across the streets. You talked about working together. What that partnership look like to you, you know, I guess when you bring up concerns and and I remember sitting here five years ago um when we were all doing what we're doing tonight, this evening, how the city council directed, you know, their their comments to the to the group of people were, you've got to work and address these concerns. They haven't stopped uh working on their plans, you know, to do this, you know. Yes, maybe you slowed down, but you know, if you have a discussion like that, I mean, is it signage? Is it fencing? Is it gating? Are they going to put signs up? I mean, when the scenic rail riders came in, you know, the tracks had essentially been abandoned. I use the word, they were like, "Okay, and they do have We've got yield signs where our crosses. We have the right away to cross. If they're coming up the rail or not, they have to stop. And the way that one particular crossing is, if you're coming up with a heavy load, you know, heavy loaded equipment or whatnot, you're an uphill grade. So, if all of a sudden you got to stop right there, it's not a very safe situation.

You know, so they're on the flat and the level. And you know, think about your roads and sometimes how they put the stop signs, you know, the flat and the level have to stop where the inclines get the right away. You know, well, what are their plans there, you know? Last thing any of us would like to see, particularly myself, being could be myself, employees or family, is an accident. address issues like that. Are they going to be liable if somebody's on that trail and they create a situation like they had in the United Kingdom. God forbid us all here tonight. If that ever happened, it would be devastating to the city of Conquer. I mean fortunately I can say we are the last dairy farm still operating within the city of um we you know multi-generation and I feel proud right now that the fourth generation I mean my wife and I are in the process we're stepping back essentially dayto-day is being done by the fourth generation with the fifth generation there's a part-time employee Uh so our intent is it changes what we do uh has changed over those 100 plus years but I can definitely say we're not hopefully we're not going away but sometimes it's made it's been made difficult and sometimes that's not necessary especially if there's back and forth Any other questions for Mr. Mororrow?

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen back there with the hat.

Welcome, dear city council. Please identify yourself.

Uh, my name is Matt Leblanc. I am the oldest son of Carolina Kerry. Um I'm a Plymouth State graduate. Um I helped build, create, fund, operate, and support Scenic Rail Riders. I'm here to ask that this purchase and sale be amended to include rail with trail. I believe that both Scenic Rail Riders and the MRGT can both coexist in this corridor. Those who disagree with this lack the firsthand knowledge, the creativity, and the vision to see how this would work. After reading through several hundred pages of public testimony, let's clear up some facts. Scenic Rail Riders is owned by Carrie Gary and Carol in the blank, not some giant private equity firm or some massive corporation. We are the definition of mom and pop. We are a seasonal business because who rides their bike in the middle of the winter when there's 5T of snow on the ground and sub freezing temperatures? We employ over 15 people from the surrounding area who keep coming back to work for us year after year. So, just remember that you were taking away their jobs and future jobs from local high school and college kids when you say that we only benefit ourselves. And don't forget the numerous times we direct our customers to other local businesses to get breakfast, lunch, and dinner or an ice cream after a warm day out on the trails. Gary spent two years researching and looking for locations to open open scenic rail riders. Places to operate rail bikes are far and few between. In January of 2019, we found this location and agreed to a lease with Panama Railways, a private company that owned the corridor. Just like a retail store leases its space from a building owner, we leased the tracks. We are not subsidized by taxpayer money. We paid for our parking lot permits, track clearing, and operating costs out of our own pockets and from ticket sales. I personally helped clear the abandoned and overgrown 3.25 miles that we use and currently operate on, no longer abandoned. Again, paid for with sweat equity and our own yard tools. I have more hours on a weed whacker, hedge trimmer, and chainsaw than I can count. Scenic does not oppose there being a rail trail in this corridor, but you

wouldn't know that because you never asked. You assume we're your enemy on this matter from the very start that we wanted this whole corridor to all to ourselves. This couldn't be further from the truth. If you had come to us and asked how we could both coexist here, we would have shown you our proposed ideas and solutions. But the thing is, you never asked. You never did your due diligence or asked to collaborate. You painted us as an enemy before we even opened our doors back in July of 2019. For those concerned with crossing the tracks, we have many ideas and solutions that would nearly eliminate the need to cross from side to side. We lack the vision to come up with those ideas. So, hear us out. Talk and work with us so that this corridor can do both. Provide a free use trail for locals to use while providing an opportunity for those who can't ride and don't own a traditional bike. Why can't we have both? seems to work in other areas in of the state and around the US. Why can't it work here? Let's talk about it. And instead of jumping to conclusions and actually go over the facts and solutions rather than abandoning the idea altogether for those excited to have this proposed trail, let's also remember that construction would not start for another four to five years the earliest and that funding has not yet been secured for this project. Wouldn't it be great to have a partner that could help provide stable funding for years to come in the form of a lease with scenic rail riders? I think it would be best for the city council to hold off on signing the current purchase and sale agreement as it is written until it can be amended to include keeping the rails in place. Let's work together as partners to have the best of both worlds. Scenic Railroad does not oppose the purchase of the corridor, just the terms of the current purchase and sale agreement and not keeping the rail in place. As written, I want to expect my express my opposition to this purchase. Let's amend the terms, talk about collaborating on solutions, and then only proceed with this purchase. Thank you for your time. Thanks, Mr. Leblanc. Anybody have a question for Mr. Leblanc?

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, council. Mr. Sink.

Good evening, Mayor Boule. Sorry. I think I think you wanted to be right back to counselor Kirks. Old habits die young. How much did he pay you for that?

Mayor Champlan, I I do apologize. And members of the city council, for the record, my name is Tim Sank. I'm the Greater Cocker Chamber of Commerce, and I am here to speak in support of the U MRGT project and the city's investment in this. The chamber has been in support of this project uh for a long time now. um uh actually from the very beginning and uh I don't need to explain why. I mean the economic benefits are very clear. They've been articulated well before me. So just here officially uh supporting this project. Having said that um I do need to do a shout out to scenic rail riders um have a proven track record of attracting visitors and generating a positive economic impact on this community. Full disclosure, Rail Riders is a member of the Chamber of Commerce. They have been for years. Um, they have worked closely with the chamber in terms of partnering with us to provide their guests with information on shopping, on restaurants, on uh hotels. Uh we do a we we have a really good partnership with them in terms of helping promote conquered as a visitor destination and making sure that visitors at rail riders take full advantage of what's available here. So they they do have a very positive economic impact and we are very grateful for what they've been able to accomplish here. So having said that, I I know that there are significant challenges of trying to accommodate both the Green Wheel Trail and Scenic Rail Riders, but uh I just would encourage that we exhaust um uh a full um investigation and understanding of anything that we can do to to keep both of these amenities because they are both amenities to the community. So thank you very much for the opportunity to speak and again apologies, Mr. Mayor.

Thank you, Mr. Sink. Any questions for Mr. Sink? All right. Thank you, Mr. Yes, ma'am.

Welcome. Good to see you again. Hi. Nice to see you. This is really low. Yes, they are.

I know. Um my name is um Carolyn Leblanc and I own along with my husband Gary Leblanc Scenic Rail Riders. Uh we are located at 188 SS Falls Road in Conquered and we've been in business in conquered since July of 2019. Some of you may not be aware of our small company and what we bring to Conquered. We started with nothing and have become over the last six years a popular tourist attraction. Google us at scenetra rail riditers.com bringing over 62,000 people to this great city with a projected 10,000 more by the end of our season. Those 70,000 people who ride our rails at conquered eat at conquered restaurants, stay in local hotels and Airbnbs and spend money downtown and they come back year after year to revisit our tour. We employ local people who have been very loyal to us and come back to work with us every season. We've been blessed with amazing employees. We built Seagate Rail riders with our literal bare hands. We as a family hand cleared with hand tools over three miles of track. The track that was completely overgrown for over 35 years of neglect. We along with our three children built the rail bikes by hand in our home garage. We had little to start. We had little startup money, but we had big ideas and a willingness to look hard. Look, sorry to work hard. We financed the build with our 401k money. No one subsidized us. No one subsidized us then. No one subsidized. Now, we had a vision, our field of dreams. This was our if you build it, they will come moment. And they have come. We felt we could make our dream come true and create a business for all abilities to use the use and enjoy. We have hosted families whose children will most likely never get to ride a traditional bike. But with our rail bikes, they have that experience. We've

hosted groups from the hearing and vision impaired, riding the rails safely with joy and wonder. We have hosted wedding parties, family reunions, and even a couple of wedding proposals. Older adults and families with young children ride rails because it's not difficult to pedal our bikes. We love our customers and they love us. When we began Scenic Rail Riders, we were only the 11th rail bike business in the entire nation. We were a curiosity, something many had never seen or heard of before. Over the last six years, we have grown and built a five-star reputation. We have been featured on New Hampshire Chronicle, New England Living, New H New Hampshire Life and Windows to the World to the Wild, excuse me. All programs that give scenic rail riders and conquer positive free publicity. We've also been published in countless newspapers and magazines. My plea to the council is to not destroy our successful family business. I could accept closing our business if we were failing at what we do, but we are not. We are very successful and a top search result for things to do in New Hampshire. The New Hampshire Tourism Board and Chamber of Commerce were just at Scenic Writers about two weeks ago. They were there taking pictures and video to promote the tourism in New Hampshire. Scenic Rail Riders is our only source of income. We will be devastated financially if you do not allow us to continue to keep our business in conquered. We are not the type of brickandmortar business that can just pull up and find another place to establish ourselves. Trust me when I say we have looked and there's little out there. In conclusion, we asked the council to be open to speak with Gary and me about working together so that we can both have a bike path and scenic rail riders to coexist together. A bike path with

our section of rails intact. We have proposed this multiple times, but no one has been willing to talk to us. We are just asking for a chance to explore this option to work to keep a small business open. I believe that keeping business in conquered and supporting them is a big part of your job as city's counselors. Please think of the message you are sending to other businesses in conquered about your willingness to support them by effectively ending scenic riders. We support conquered purchasing this rail corridor. We want the PNFS to be amended to keep the rails intact and create a bike path alongside them which will keep scenic rail riders open and bring more tourism to conquer for years to come.

I thank you for your time and hopefully interest in this matter. Thank you, Ms. Leblanc. Any questions? Council Brown.

Yes. Can you talk a little bit about these rail the rail bikes? You said you built them in your garage. Oh, I wish you would ask my husband that. Um, yes. Basically, um, we took, um, aluminum. Gary, help. Um, aluminum. We just basically cut aluminum and we made them into what is going to be our rail bike. Gary created a mold that we use actually a con a town in Laconia I believe that creates our tires which are specially made um to go on the rails and they're very very quiet so like your neighbors aren't going to hear us coming. You're not going to hear that constant clickity click. Um our bikes are very sturdy. Um and my kids and my husband did it. I made cookies and made sure they were happy. Our um our I don't I can't sling a wrench. Um, you know, we use bike parts. We call them bikes because we use bike parts. So, we use bike pedals. We use um lawnmower seats that are our seats. I mean, we have he he's extremely creative. Um, he will come up with a solution for any problem. Um, he's our hero for this.

Can you tell me about how wide they are? How wide? They're as wide as the rails. As wide as the rails. Yeah. So, we have We call our bikes, we have wear quads and um the quads are four seat bikes. So you have two people that sit in the front, two people sit in the back, the person on the right has the handbrake. They're just like your brakes that you would use for your bicycle to stop them. Um our two seat bikes are just side by side. Um so riding our rails, you allow people to actually talk to each other while they're riding the tour. It's handsfree. They can take pictures, um, drink whatever they need, you know, water, sorry, whatever they need to do, uh, you know, to enjoy the rails. Followup.

Yes. Uh, how difficult would it be to retrofit the tires for not the rails, but for a flat surface? Uh, they would be have to be brand new rail, brand new tires, different tires. These these are not, how do I describe it? There is no suspension in these bikes, so you can't turn them. Okay? Not like a car where you could just turn the wheel and the car will turn. These go straight. Um, so, uh, that's why it's so important that we have our we we line up our bikes when we cross the road and they just they're not meant they're meant to hug the rails. They're not meant to drive on a road,

but they could work perfectly on a straight rail trail. If they were if the the pavement was if it was paved and the rail and the wheels were not I guess they're grooved for the rails. Is it something that they you know because the the rest of it isn't changing. It's just the tires. Correct. But there's no steering. There is no steering. There's no steering. The rails steer it. Right. Okay. So, just like if you were at amusement park and you drove those little cars that go on the rail, you pretend you're steering, but they're not. They're on the rails. The rails is what keeps them on the track. Okay. On the wheels are designed to keep on the track. Okay.

Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you, Mr. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Anyone else? Welcome.

Thank you. My name is Daniel Day. I am a resident of Durham and I am the owner of Awakening Rails LLC, a rail bike tour company that is looking to launch in Maine. I just to clarify, I do not work for Scenic Rail Riders, nor have I worked for them in the past. I'm just wearing the shirt out of support for a fellow rail bike tour company. I can say finding railroad lines is not an easy task. Um, and I will say uh scenic rail riders is pretty much the gold standard when it comes to scener the scenic aspect of rail riding. You got forest, you got a river, you got bridge, you got cow pasture. A lot of rail bike tour companies in the country are jealous of the line that Gary led out in securing after two years. I've been trying I've been going at this for three years and I still haven't opened up yet. I've managed railike tour companies in Michigan, in Oklahoma, and I have traveled the country uh checking out various other railike tour companies. I got to say scenic rail riders truly is world class and Conquer is very lucky to have them. I will say I I would urge you to work with Gary and his family to try to see if the rail bike tour company and the rail trail can coexist. It definitely sounds like there's there's a way to do it. I would encourage you to speak to them and work with the trail committee about how the two companies can coexist. I've been to Con Valley. it. I walked and skied along that corridor before. It works out very nicely over there. So, as my the old saying goes, if there is a will, there is a way. Um, finally, I will also mention that in terms of

support for the economy, um, Scenic Rail Riders does list a lodging, dining, and other activities to do in conquered right on their website. So, people checking out sil riders can see what else there is to do. And also their website does post pictures of them building the business. So you can see just all the hard work they put in to really bring this gift to conquered. And if you haven't been down there, check it out. See it for yourself. It really is a special place. I can say as someone who has operated rail bike tours, it it's very special for a lot of people who are very limited in the physical activity they can do. Um it's it's a physical activity that so many people can do and it promotes wellness, promotes sustainability and environmental awareness. Definitely some values that I know conquered in the state of New Hampshire really hold dearly. So thank you for considering question.

Thank you. Question. Do you have any thoughts on why you think it's difficult to or why you've experienced a difficulty in finding a location to run your business or or or others? Why why why isn't why aren't these everywhere?

So, um there are very few railroads that are not currently being used by active railroads that are sitting idle. Um the few that are many of them are being claimed by government organizations that are very bureaucratic. Um some of them are in the hands of rail trail companies that you know they want to use it for their own rails to trails conversion. Uh some of them are operated in are in territory of other freight railroads that don't want to deal with um another tenant that's doesn't actively work with them. Um there's all kinds of concerns. So really um available unused rail lines are pretty rare and also they need to be in the right location. You need to have decent scenery. You need to be in a place where people either live or visit. So um in terms of finding what's actually a suitable rail line. They're very rare and very hard to come by.

Thank you. Appreciate that. Thank you. Any other questions? All right, Mr. Day, thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Anyone else? Welcome.

Good evening. Uh my name is Chris Miller. Uh East conquered. Um avid cyclist. Spent a lot of time on my bike. Uh spent a lot of time in trails around the country. Um you know, I think there's there's an interesting book end here. I think the most important thing I want to speak to is you've got the Northern Rail Trail represent here and you got the Marramac Greenway and there is this opportunity to bridge this statewide connection ultimately. You know, I've ridden from Lebanon to its, you know, its current end incan and I witness people getting off there who are coming down from handover and it just comes to a sudden end out there and they have to bushwack their way uh into conquered if they want to do anything. And so it's an opportunity here and I think this is a once in a-lifetime opportunity to to bridge that gap to help build that you a truly remarkable statewide network. And so it's it's not just about this 5.7 miles. It's about, you know, you know, bridging to some of the trails in Vermont down to ultimately into Massachusetts. And you know, there's this stark gap uh in this part of the state and helps fill that. Um the other thing just and this is voice of experience um the um paraphrasing the the comments about the Cotton Valley Rail Trail. Um I'm an avid cyclist. My wife is not. Uh we did the Cotton Valley. Um only one of us came out unscathed and that was me because I've got narrow tires and it's it's hazardous. It's it's dangerous uh because you're constantly

crossing from one side sometimes at the middle then you know the wide part might be on the right hand side of the the rail and then it'll shift out there and then it'll come back into the center and then it'll and so they spoke to I think the difficulty of building a sufficient platform for both of these uses to coexist. It's not just that there's an 84 foot rightway. You need to have a solid deck for that. And the the Cotton Valley is if that's an example of a shared system. It does not work well. Um and I did it once. I'm never going back. So anyhow, I would I'm obviously very much in support of uh the city taking action to acquire and help develop this rail trail into the city of conquered. I think it is a remarkable economic development tool for the city.

Thank you, Mr. Miller. Any questions for Mr. Miller? Council Grady Saxton. Thank you, your honor. Um, thank you, Mr. Miller, for your testimony. So, as a cyclist who uses um these rail trails, do you um often stop in a community and uh go to the downtown and spend money?

That's what it's it's actually what it's all about. I mean, it's if you uh if you go to um the Nashville River Rail Trail, you know, there's series of stops. You go to Pep Roll and there's, you know, the little restaurants and the ice cream stops. You go to Grten and there's a there are a couple of good lunch spots in Grten and you can go down to and it's it's the way it is um on all of these trails. I think you know people you know I know where the food stops are on the northern rail trail heading up uh towards Lemon and it's it's a feature of that activity. You know, I'm in my professional consulting life now. I'm working on a project up in Franklin u at the old Daniel Webster farm. And the Northern Rail Trail slices through the front of that site. And it's remarkable the number of people who are coming down that rail trail and they're they're looking for places. They're looking for uh spots to get off on. They're looking for places to go find something to eat, uh, something to drink. It's just the nature of people are touring when they're on it.

Thank you so much. Any other questions, Mr. Miller? Thank you so much. You would anyone else like to testify? Yes, ma'am. Welcome.

Hello. Um, my name is Livia Smith. from Hillsboro, New Hampshire. Um, I came to speak in behalf of Scenic Rail Riders. I have been employed by them for about six years now. This is my sixth season with them. Um, I'm here because uh it would be I didn't prepare anything because I wasn't sure if I was going to speak, but after uh working with them and them supporting me for the past six years, I thought it'd only be fair and right I support them as well. Um, they have become a home away from home. I think it's incredibly rare to find a job that you enjoy with your whole spirit and life. Um, I have three children at home who also require me to work. Um, and yes, I could find another job. um not one that may pay as well or that doesn't support me in my schedule. And um not only that, but being outside and my well-being. Um it has greatly increased my mental health and uh my my physical health as well. So uh I can tell that we everybody here is getting a bit tired and I myself am hungry. Um, so I hope that a decision can be made in support of scenic rail riders, whether that be in support of rail with trail. I do not know the specifics. I do not know numbers. I do not know any of that. All I know is that it is a livelihood to not just the owners, but to the others that work there as well.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody? Any questions? Excuse me. Thank you so much for coming.

Welcome.

Thank you. My name is Erin Frackner. I uh live here in conquered and am an avid user of the current Northern Rail Trail and many other rail trails around the state. I I'm up here uh hoping that you will approve the purchase of the um segment of uh the the CSX line um connecting 60 miles of trail up to the R border and eventually down to Massachusetts. Like a gentleman a few people ago said we have a gap here between conquered and probably the Manchester airport. There's no trail through this that uh very populous section. Um I think getting the trail allows a safer corridor for people who want to gain access to from downtown up to the the uh existing trail head. Um, I know I've ridden that rail trail quite a number of times, dozens and dozens of times. Uh, I ride it up to Andover for lunch a couple times a year. Um, up to Danbury for lunch a couple times a year. So, putting in some miles and frequenting local businesses. Uh, I think the Cotton Valley Rail Trail, uh, I'll say what everyone else has said, that shared trail where you're crossing back and forth, um, is is very troublesome. Uh, I will read a, uh, comment that I posted if I can find it. Uh when I rode that trail back in 2021, a lovely ride, but many railroad track crossings and places where the trail is laid between the rails made it tight and

sketchy at times. Um I made it through. My significant other slipped and uh and fell. So just be wary of a path that crosses and weaves on the trail. Um so thank you very much. Any questions? Thank you. Thank you. Welcome.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the city council. My name is John Corrian and I'm a resident of Pinnacook, New Hampshire. And by way of background, I am a retired program planner who spent 13 years at the New Hampshire Department of Transportation doing bicycle and pedestrian projects. Um, I want to stress that I'm speaking strictly for myself. I have not been in touch with anybody from the department on this. Okay. What I can do is urge I I fully support this program. Um, I think it's a critical link. Um, and I would urge you not to stop or to delay it. Um toward the end of my career, I worked on the TAP program and I'm very aware that the federal government pushes very hard to get these projects built as quickly as possible. And I will be the first to admit that these projects take way too long to make, but you don't want to build in more delays in it. Um and be aware that under the tap the the federal government really does um if you delay it too long, they will pull your funding. Uh it's ironic because they built this system that's very complicated. Um I heard a reference earlier to looking for state funding for this pro program. Um what you should be aware of is that at least when I was working there and I retired in 2020 um that at the time all of the bike ped money was passed through money from the Federal Highway Administration. The state spends almost no state money on these projects. Now, um again, I'm a regular bicyclist and I want think we need to look at this entire trail from from Lebanon all the way to the um southern part of the state with this critical link. Um we need to look at it as a transportation project and as a recreation project. I can tell you that I used to commute from Penuk to the Department of Transportation on Hazen Drive all year round by bicycle and had this trail existed then I would

be using it for transportation to work. What you need to realize that most bicyclists are going to be out on the trail three or four times per week. And I think for either transportation or for um for recreation, $95 for a round trip, it's a very nice tourist adventure. But you know that's that's not feasible for most of us to be using that on a regular basis. So again I would urge you to don't delay this anymore. Get the work done and you know really support the bicycling and pedestrian community in the state and I think you'll will reap the economic rewards from it. I've done quite a bit of biking in um on the Cape Cod Rail Trail and almost every time you cross a road there's a store or a restaurant but the the people are really taking advantage of it. I think the same thing can happen here in conquered, but we can't let one business block it. And I will defer to the to the engineers about the the practicality of rail with trail. Incidentally, I've read the I've ridden the Cotton uh Cotton Valley uh rail trail in Wolfboro dozens of times. It is tricky, but it's not as dangerous as they claim. Um if you if you pay attention to the signs, and there are lots of signs, you can navigate it safely, but it's not ideal. Um just thought I'd add that. be happy to take any questions.

Thank you, Mr. Cord. Counselor Schultz. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, if I didn't know you already, I probably wouldn't ask this question. Um, but do you think that it's a a false choice to say that we have to pick one or the other? I I have to defer to the engineers on that. I mean, I think you do need you need a certain amount of rightway. You need the space for if you're going to have two different modes, you need space for both of them. So, I I don't know if it's practical or not. I do know that for the Cotton Valley Trail, it's it's a complication. It's it's tricky. I' I've seen friends get hurt there. I've always done well myself, but it's tricky. Followup.

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. um with the way these things are funded, let's say hypothetically in your experience, um do you think that that looking at a dual choice, you know, being able to meet mo both needs with the rail next to a trail is that would that delay?

Yes. No. You know, I I'm not I'm not current on all all the administrative process gone into this, but usually in the early very early phases of the um the project, there's what they call a um an engineering study which does consider alternatives. I don't know if that's practical at this point with the project or not because you've had such long delays and I I'm afraid that if you have more delay to do that um that you're going to lose the grant. That's a re very realistic possibility. I pulled a number of grants from from local communities and it broke my heart but we just couldn't get them to move. Conquered's ready to move. I mean I've worked on projects here in conquered and conquer's done a good job with them. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. C.

Thank you. All right. Thank you so much. Yes, sir.

Welcome.

Good evening. Uh Andy Gold Concrete resident. Um just a couple things to say. Um in support of this project for sure. Um and the rail trail and this connection that it adds. Just being able to ride from downtown conquered up to Boswin and beyond is uh would be a huge asset to the city. Um there's no denying the success of rail trails around the state. Um you know, every Mother's Day my family gets together, 12 of us, and we pick a different rail trail and go out for breakfast. Um economic like everybody said previously, there's lots of money, lots of economic benefit to having a rail trail. Um the only thing that hasn't really been mentioned yet that I want to mention is when you're considering the sidebyside option, um just want to think about like 10 years down the road, 20 years down the road, if the rail riders business goes under, do we want to spend all those extra hundreds of thousands of dollars on this project? And then that's not even there anymore. And we look back, we like, oh, is it worth it? all that. I just want to consider the uh the long the long-term effect of uh of our decisions of your decisions on this project. Um also I'll echo what everybody said about Cotton Valley. It's definitely not safe to be between the tracks or zigzagging on the tracks. I've I've also been there. So definitely don't recommend pavement or gravel between the rails. So that's it.

Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Gold? All right. Thank you so much. Yes, sir.

Good evening. My name is Tim Shiovalier. I have a business in Penuk. I'm here to speak in support of the contract user of the rail trail. I've also used the Cotton Valley Trail and I'm a mountain biker. Wasn't a problem for me, but I wouldn't go back and haven't gone back. Uh I was up recently in Fryberg, Maine and right across the border from New Hampshire to Maine, there's a visitor center and I wrote there's about a fivemile paved trail right next to the next to the railroad. It's beautiful. It was very safe and that's maybe an example of something that has worked that's fairly recent. Um also briefly to support the economic value, uh I'm right in Penuk at the end of the trail. I've ridden to Franklin multiple times to get lunch. Um, never ridden downtown conquered because there's no good route that's worth riding from from Penuk. Uh, I rode the Gotham down railroad trail a couple weeks ago with my sister. We found a farm at the end. We bought some blueberries for lunch. Would have not have found it otherwise. Again, just more money for that farm. Um, and she's in the market right now for a house in the Cockard area and we were talking about how the rail trail, you know, brings value when she's looking for a house. So, I think it brings value and proves the value of the community. Thank you.

Great. Thank you, Mr. Shiovali. Any questions before you leave? All right. Thank you so much.

Welcome.

Thank you. For the record, I'm Lisa Bodwin, W four. I just wanted to lift up once again the concerns issued by the farmer. I really appreciated him raising serious questions about his ability to be able to access his fields and hopefully neither the purchase and sales agreement nor the design for the trails. However, however all of that shakes out with regards to collaboration between trails and the scenic railroad um bikes. uh however that shakes out, we don't want to lose run over or have some eminent domain. We don't want anything to happen to this farmer and his family and his livestock being able to have fair access to his two fields. So hopefully the paperwork is in order to honor what has been around for hundred years.

Thank you. Any questions for Mroy? No. Thank you. Thank you.

Welcome.

Good evening. Uh Tim Blackden. I'm part of the team that's building the other rail trail in town. We wholeheartedly support uh the city moving forward with this project. Um everything we're doing to build a 34 mile trail that will have a terminus in conquered. We really really hope that connects with the Marramac River uh greenway trail and uh gives people a way to start in Newberry and finish in Lebanon uh at the end of the day. Um they they are great for business today. myself, the person who uh is a leader at the Cross New Hampshire Adventure Trail. Um a couple of other folks rode from Lebanon down to Conquered today. We did the whole thing. Uh stopped at a couple of spots, uh spent money for lunch. Um it it was a great ride and we really hope that it continues down into Conquered um and links to what we hope to finish. So, we're working as fast as we can and uh let's get all this done.

Thank you. Uh any questions? Thank you very much. Saw somebody else's hand up. Yes.

Good evening. Good evening. My name is Summer Shifflet. I am employee of Scenic Riders. Um I wasn't planning to speak so I don't have any notes but I just wanted to reiterate the important of this importance of this business here and the effect it has had on so many lives. It is not um just a recreational activity. It is a job we return to year after year that people return to year after year. I also wanted to mention that if a family of five in 2019 could clear 3.5 miles of trail and build about 20 rail bikes in the garage, perhaps the city of Conquered with all of its funding and resources could build a path alongside the current tracks. Not to mention, um there's all these critters that live in the tracks. We have squirrels and chipmunks that live in the ties, snakes as well. And I did hear some concerns about environmentalism earlier and I um am going into my senior year at UNH for biology and that is just one thing I've considered. Um finally, thank you for listening to us all. I know it's getting late but um like I said I'm not yet graduated so I'm still uh young I guess and I would love to live in a world where we collaborate and speak to each other and especially here in conquered the capital of my state. I would love to see that and um and be proud of my home and my state. Thank you.

Thank you. Any questions? Thank you very much. Appreciate you. Is there anyone else who would like to testify? Yes.

Welcome.

Hello. Uh my name is Kayla Bowden. I am both a conquered resident and I work at scenic rail riders and I have thoroughly enjoyed walking along the trails here in conquered as well. So I do try to take advantage of everything here in conquered. Um I've been with the business since 2021 I want to say like yeah it's about four years now. Big fan of it. Um and I think it' be a big loss to community lose a business like it. I do see people come in every year again and again again to join. And I know a lot of people are talking about the price point, but people do typically split the price with multiple people. So it's not $95 like usually all at once. Usually there's like a group of mostly older pe older people a lot that put the price together. So they're all spending more like 40 bucks a person or so. Um so that that's not all all the time being spent by one person. I just wanted to point that out there because there was a couple comments about that as well. Oh, sorry. Public speaking is not my thing. Um I um I'm also slightly concerned with the farm and what they're talking about with the homeless population. As someone who lives in conquered, I do really want a trail um for both biking and us as well. I thoroughly enjoy all the trails here in conquered. Um but I do see off all these trails multiple holistic camplets. So, I would be slightly afraid of what that would bring to because I actually do live near um where you guys are talking about ending near Sville's road as well as I already do see a lot of those people on Fisherville Road that I drive by every day. Um so, I do have a slight concern about the homeless population as well. They deserve a safe place to live, but I don't know if I want that safe place to live to be right along these trails.

I think that's all I have to say today. Well, thank you so much. Any questions? All right. Thank you so much. Saw some other hands up.

Welcome. This is a low seat. Yes. Don't Don't fall over.

Um good uh Yeah, good evening. I was going to say good afternoon. Uh Roland Buby. I'm a resident of Ward Five. Um I have always been in favor of the uh plan Marrammech River Greenway Trail. So uh when I came here tonight I was all for the proposal um and um asking you to approve the proposal is written. Um there have been some um comments made by uh buyin for the scenic rail riders that have made me think that um if you do decide you the council do decide to amend the um proposal to in to keep the track the rails on the on the trail. Um, I want you to let's not forget that this is not just bike riders that we're talking about or rail bike riders that we're talking about. We're talking about people in wheelchairs. Like when we're talking about the Marramck River Greenway Trail and the users of that type of trail, we're talking about um people with mobility issues. We're talking about people that are either in wheelchairs or uh riding in mo, you know, mobility carts. We're talking about kids learning how to ride a bike, whether it's on a a um trainer bike, a bike with training wheels, a tricycle. Um we're talking about hikers. We're talking about um walkers like people my age that don't necessarily hike, we walk. We talk about um people in the wintertime, cross-country skiers, snowshoers. So, we need to remember that big picture of users that will be able to use this type of trail. Um, I feel for the scenic rail riders and

the situation that they're in, but they did go, from what I understand, um, with what the planning board told them, they did go into this business venture knowing that the possibility of these rails going away was in their future. The plan for the Marramck River Greenway Trail has been a concept that I've been hearing about for many years as a resident of Conquered. I'm looking forward to this happening. I would love to see it happen sooner rather than later. Um, in response to some of the prior people that have spoken, um, with regard to some of the comments that Mr. Swiker made um I would ask that he perhaps um look into the why the Marramck River Greenway Trail has not been completed in the 10 years since um the friends of the Marramck Greenway Trail been working on it. There are things that for one they're not the land owners. Second of all, they have to deal with meeting the requirements of uh US Army Corps of Engineers as far as the um the bridge work that's going to have to go that would be going in to complete the Terrell Park portion of the rail trail. Um so to to express disappointment that we're looking for goldplated solution, that's not what the friends of Mar River looking for. And and again, I didn't mean to come here. I I meant to come here tonight speaking as a resident. Uh full disclosure, I am a financial uh donor to the Friends of Mack River Greenway Trail. I'm also a former board member of the Merch Friends of March River Greenway Trail. So, I do know the hassles that they have had to deal with in trying to complete the portions that they've already completed.

I also want to make clear to other people that are in this room that think that the friends of the Marmac River Greenway Trail are in control of this process. We are not. We are an organization and I shouldn't say we as I'm not a board member anymore. They are not an organization that are in control of this process. They are an organization that are set up to help the city or the state, whomever the land owners are that are going to give the ride away to the use of this trail. They are there to help assist in getting the grants and the funding to do the work to make this trail. Um, in regards to Mr. Moral's comments. I fully agree with his concerns. And the reason why the friends of the Marramac River Greenway have not talked to him yet is again we don't own the property. We the the organization does not have we're not in the process yet of building that trail. Once we do get the, you know, the approval for for the land purchase and um the approval of the city to begin working on developing the trail, then we will most certainly work with Mr. Moral to address his concerns and definitely work to make the trail safe um for all the users. Um as far as the scenic rail writers, same thing. The reason why they have not had discussion with um the friends of the Marramac River Greenway Trail is because the city is in the lead on this. We have to wait until the city determines what they're going to do with this right away or the state depending on which organization. It's not the Friends of Marramac River Greenway Trail. we will just be the organization that will do all the work to raise the funds um to to uh spend the money on the

development of the trail and assist the the city in getting the trail built. Um, again, the reason why I came up here tonight specifically was to make sure that we don't forget that this type of trail can um be a recreational outlet for all types of people. And I would certainly love to see the residents of Conquered be able to enjoy the same view along the river that the scenic rail riders currently do, but not have to spend $95 to do it, as well as being stuck beside behind another rail car that you can't pass. I would much rather be able to either walk that trail, ski that trail. As a taxpayer, I would like to see my funds make it available to me so that I can walk that trail, ski that trail, take my grandkids there to learn how to bike in a safe environment or to um uh u also I know of people that would be using it as a commuting trail because of the um sad uh inability to use Fisherville Road in a safe safe manner. Um I think that's all I wanted to say. Um, again, I did this without notes, but I also wanted to wait until I heard the majority of people uh and what they had to say. And I wanted to not necessarily counteract what they said, but just kind of bring to light where um the friends of the Mac River Greenway Trail sits in this whole process versus the city andor the state with regards to the purchase.

Thank you. Thank you. Happy to answer anything. Anyone have any questions? Thank you so much. Thank you. Would anyone else like to testify? Yes, sir.

Welcome. Thank you. Good to see you again. Good evening, mayor, city council members. My name is Pete Miner uh in East Conquer. I'm here tonight with my son for a merit badge of all things. Um definitely deserves it. Say it's not a bad thing. Um you should bring him. I wasn't planning on speaking, but here goes. Um,

I just wanted to remind everybody in this room that everybody that was opposed to the deal isn't opposed to the deal and the rail trail itself. It's they want to have that communication and that ability to coexist. And I understand that we don't own the property yet, so they can't get the designs yet, but there can still be that collaboration between the different parties involved. You don't have to wait till you have the property to come up with solutions and in the process, you know, there is a small business on the line. I used to be a small business owner here in town. You know, I was on the Chamber of Commerce. It's a great town to have a small business in. But what some of the people that have spoken tonight have essentially said, screw you to that business. Now, I know if if that was me, I would be extremely upset. And they're not saying that they don't want the rail trail. They're just saying they want to be able to coexist. So, I just wanted to remind everyone in the room of tonight. So, that's all I have.

Thank you, Mr. Martin. Any questions? Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Good luck with the merit bad. I think he's got it. Any other question? I'm sorry. Any other Anyone else like to testify?

Welcome.

Hi. Uh Ian McGregor, uh Sunset Avenue, Ward 7. Um I feel I haven't been here the whole time. I'm a little late. Um, I feel like we've heard a lot from uh people enjoying recreation. It is a beautiful corridor uh in a beautiful part of uh our town and a beautiful part of the United States. Um, and I've heard it mentioned a little bit, but to me, this this is like a crucial commuting corridor. Um, the reason I'm late tonight is because I'm coming from a a softball game that was at Bug Field. Uh Bugfield is about a block away from Depot Street in Bosowin. Um we're a onecar family. So instead of being able to pick my kids up at NHDI and having a beautiful enjoyable bike ride in our electric cargo bike up to the softball game, um I had to I you know picked him up, swung through McDonald's as fast as I could and then um went to the game and then after the game I have to go my wife works in Manchester. So, we drove all the way down to Manchester through the traffic cuz if anybody's not aware, they're paving 293 South in Manchester tonight. And then, um, fortunately, she took over so I could, uh, turn this on my phone on YouTube and listen to some of the commentary that's been going on. Um, and I just thought about how much more enjoyable if this purchase would have gone through last year, I could have had a very different experience tonight. Um, I've also thought about I believe it's this Wednesday you're having a ribbon cutting in Penook, the new park. Same scenario. I'm not taking my kids on Fischerville Road to go to that ribbon cutting. Um, we're just going to go home that night and not go to the new ice cream place that just opened up this spring. Um, my dog gets boarded at Brookwood. Uh, Brookwood Kennel is off

of Old Boyce Road, just on the other side of the new um, roundabout. Uh again with a onec car family when we're going on vacation we've got to schedule you know who's going to take the kids to school and who's going to show up to work late and who's going to drop the dog off where that would be made a lot easier for our little 40 lb dog to fit in the bike and be able to be dropped off and then I I can't not talk about Merchants Way and the economic impact that that's going to have and to be able to take traffic off of the freeway to take traffic off of Fischerville road and have anybody that's coming from the wealth of workforce housing and and all of the new apartments that are being built in conquered and be able to take a active mode of transportation into a new employment hub within the city is an opportunity that just doesn't exist in a lot of towns throughout the United States. and anything that would delay this in my opinion is um something that should be avoided at all costs. Um so that that's that's really what I came here to say tonight. Thank you.

Thanks very much McGregor. Any questions? Thank you so much. Thank you. Anyone else like to testify? Come on up. badge. Welcome. Good evening, mayor, and good evening, city council. I would like to

You have to identify yourself first clerk. I'm Tobias Miner and I would like to go over the points of the financial problems and the in the environmental impact that it might have. It might. I've heard that installing it could cost millions and through all of the recycled or useless steel being 45 to 70 piece uh dollars for per linear foot. that would cost a lot in the term of the couple miles that they want to place like the two million that they said which that's only part of the problem because like one of the other people before me they uh they said that there's a problem with the livestock in UK in the UK because of too much environmental environmental soul like interception per se. And they animals were suffering because they couldn't really they were just dying and suffering because of the germs and all of the interaction. Which leads me back to the cost because for the care of the animals again costs more and that's a low price. But if it does that's a low percentage. But if that does end up happening that could cost a lot because that's viral.

So it'll go around all over through the state and eventually to the country. And I don't think we would like seeing that throughout our whole country of all our livestock just dying. And then I did the math. The 31 negative results of the 40 people, that's 77.5% of the people did not like what did not like what was going to happen to the or had problems with the trail system, which I would say it's better to have a safer system, which I see has not been happening, then to have more people hurt in a more expensive, fancier way.

That is it. Mr. Maya, thank you so much for your testimony. Is there anyone who would like to ask a question for Mr. Mer? Councelor Curts. Thank you, Mr. Meyer. What grade are you in? I am going to take and follow up. And have you spoken in front of a group of people, a council like this before? No. I would just like to commend you. It's very intimidating. You spoke very well and thank you for joining us tonight. Thank you. Which merit badge are you working on? I'm working on my communication merit badge. Excellent job. Excellent preparation.

Thank you very much. Would anyone else like to testify? Yes, sir.

Welcome. Welcome. My name is Dave Tuni. I've lived in conquered for over 20 years. I think the length of this meeting is maybe a metaphor for this project which has taken forever. And I just would love to just encourage the the sort of the expeditious manner of handling this and not to delay the purchase of this. Um I've ridden rail trails uh my whole life here in conquered and I've ridden the length of the Northern Rail Trail. It's absolutely delightful. Uh my wife and I have ridden the uh the Gap Trail which is a 330 mile ride from uh Pittsburgh all the way to Washington DC and there is a whole community and there's a very vibrant comm um um economic um benefit that's being derived by many of the communities that that line the rail trail. So, I just uh also I think we could reduce our carbon footprint by making it a little warmer in here. I don't know about you. I'm frozen.

Agreed. Thank you. So, I just thought I'd throw that out there. Anyway, and that's all I really have to say. Thank you for your time. Any any questions for Mr. Truman? Thank you. All right. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Anyone else? Any more testimony? Any more testimony? All right. Seeing none, I'm going to declare this public hearing uh over. Uh at the hazard of keeping everyone in suspense, uh we've been here for three hours. I'm going to declare a fivem minute recess before we go into the action phase. We're recessed for five minutes.

The public hearing action phase of our meeting. Madam city clerk, item 37 is an ordinance amending the code of ordinances, building and housing codes, building regulations, demolition and review. Move approval. Second. Approval is moved and seconded. Any discussion? Councelor Kredic. Thank you, your honor. Uh on behalf of the Heritage Commission and councelor Todd, we thank you so much for bringing this to our attention that we were missing something in the language and um the heritage commission fully supports this. Any further discussion? That's it. Question. All those in favor, please signify by saying I.

I. No. Eyes have it. The motion carries. Uh Madam City Clerk, item number 38. It's an ordinance amending the code of ordinances title 4 zoning code chapter 28 zoning ordinance nonconforming lots uses and structures determination of a nonconformity. Move approval. Second. Approval is moved and seconded. Any discussion? All those in favor of the motion as made please signify by saying I. I oppose. No. Eyes have it. Uh, madam city clerk, item number 39,

an ordinance amending the code of ordinances, title two, traffic code chapter 18, parking, stopping, standing in parking, parking prohibited during certain hours and months in designated places. Uh, modifying parking requirements on school street between Pine and Liberty Streets. Chair recognizes uh, Council McNamera.

Thank you, your honor. Um I would like to um I was on the parking committee and we did discuss and go through um a compromise after a second motion that we had and I would like to move to drop this item until such time when a comprehensive discussion can be had between representatives from conquered school district and our parking staff and city. Are you moving to table council? Is that what you're moving? Um, do you think that'd be the best action to do if we're looking to have a conversation? If you if you want if you want to delay action on

All right. Then I'm moving to table this until we can have a comprehensive discussion with conquered participant school board parking committee and some city staff. Is there a second? Second. Seconded. Okay. Uh, would you like to speak to that any further?

Certainly. Thank you. So, there's been lots of conversations. Um, at our last meeting, uh, we made a motion to change the it consist the current parking on both sides of the streets. There were two residents who were at that meeting. One was in favor, one wasn't. So, I proposed a compromise that we would only change back one side of the street. Um, we agreed on this and with over time thinking about this, thinking about it objectively, there are several things that come to mind. We are taking away parking from current students and possibly teachers, which they still have to park, so they will move and find another place to do so. Um, I know that with the um restructuring of Memorial Field, we've been told that that's going to take away some parking. So, that's less parking for our students and possibly teachers. Also, we are going to be doing um the renovation of the coach uh property that's going to possibly take away parking at the senior parking for conquered high. There was a concern about well this is very dangerous having cars parked close to my driveway. So, um we went ahead to find that data and there wasn't any. Conquer PD didn't have any data showing accidents um during that time. We keep saying in our meetings and we've done this to a resident on Union Street. We've done this to the law school. We don't make changes for just one or two people because we're a community. and

the fact that this change would affect others. Um I just think at this point and we've constantly been saying we'd like to speak to someone from conquered uh conquer high school. We had one meeting set up that did not happen and I've been assured that this will happen. So I have faith that we can have a meeting and we will have someone from conquered high and we can talk collaborative collaboratively on this and move forward that way. Further discussion, counselors.

Yes. Uh, I would like to speak to this. Uh, I'm also on the parking committee and this is also my ward and maybe there haven't been any accidents, but there have certainly been issues and I've heard from multiple residents on both sides of the street because there is parking on both sides of the street and there have been issues where uh driveways have been blocked. Uh, they have not had their garbage picked up. Um, these are high school students running late. If you look at the map that is on that is the seventh page of this packet, you can see that all the streets in blue there's uh limited there's restricted parking on all of those this one street and it was one resident who came to the parking committee in 2020 that said I want more parking for my tenants and the staff advised against it. the staff said, "If you do this, these students will will flock to the area." And that's exactly what happened. So, one resident came in and the parking committee made that change or the council then approved that. And I know councelor Fennessy and councelor Keech opposed it because uh councelor Fennessy lives in the area and recognizes how bad the parking can be. We need to encourage students to move further towards Memorial Field to use Memorial Field. There is more there are more students driving. The issue that we have had with conquered High is they are not coming to the meetings and I have had multiple email um conversations. I've reached out to the principal. Um I have alerted him to uh this meeting to I've alerted schoolboard members to this meeting. So there has been ample opportunity for the school district to come and uh meet with us. That has not happened. These are

residents that are dealing with it regularly. And there was a great compromise that was made at the meeting and this meeting um the residents have been complaining almost ever since it happened because they were not alerted to the change. The change happened, the signs were removed. There was only two-hour parking at the time. One person made a request, the change happened, and the entire neighborhood was impacted. I have been hearing from it constantly for years. Every time the snow snow plows cannot maneuver around uh the plows. I They cannot maneuver around the students cars to get into the driveways to plow uh the driveways that they've been contracted to do. So, I think tableabling this would be a mistake. The neighbors have reached out. They have attended meetings um to the parking committee. I had them ask me tonight, do you think we need to come? And I said, you know, I I I think it's going to be a long late night because of other issues that are happening. And I feel that at our parking committee, we discussed, hey, we've reached out to the schools and they have not extended a hand to us. The high school is also part of my ward. So I want to work with them and I alert them to what's happening but we cannot uh prevent this. We can't hold this for them. I have also worked with them on parking area closer to the CRTC. So that's something that I'm trying to work with them to support the residents who are in this area. If you look at this map, it's crazy. The students are going where there's an opening. I mean we would have to look at all these other streets. The residents themselves came up with this compromise and in fact the resident the husband uh came before our parking committee and said yeah we were

wrong. We should not have done that because it's it's terrible. So let's restrict it on one side and then leave the other one open for parking. So it's not even going back to what it was. This is a compromise and I am working with the school district to help them find park to resolve those issues but to make the residents wait for them to come to the table is a mistake. Thank you counselor. Any further discussion? Council F.

Thank you. Um as the report notes, I was one of the two people who opposed making this change back in 2020. I think the council made a mistake at the time to um allow parking in this area. I said at the time, if you remove parking here, it's just going to get filled up with high school student parking. I think that's exactly what's happened. Um, so personally, I, you know, I drive down school street every single day and in the winter you can barely get one car uh through this particular section when you have parking on both sides with two mountains of snow. Um, it leads to backups at the Liberty Street, School Street uh intersection, which backups with that usually with the traffic circle which is undersized. So, um I do think there's something that should be done. Ideally, we would do it before the school year starts so that uh students don't get used to parking in this area. Um so, I don't I don't have a personal opinion whether it should be the south side or the north side of the street. I don't know if if to what extent the parking committee talked about one side versus the other. Um Personally, I I don't know that it matters. Uh but if it were my choice, we go back to how it was before, there would be no parking at all. But, you know, if there's a reasonable compromise to have one side be parking versus another, um you know, maybe that provides a temporary measure of relief.

Any further discussion? Council member, that was part of the conversation and the compromise. uh the family who felt like cars were coming up to their driveway wanted theirs no parking and the one across the street would have the other because he wanted his kids to have a place to park during the day. So my concern is again I recognize when people are frustrated but I also recognized do we make changes for one or two or do we look go a little farther out and then maybe go a little farther out and ask are there the people need to come to the table so we can have a bigger conversation. Thank you Brown.

Yes. I will say that it was the it was residents and it was more than one resident that came and they discussed it themselves and they said, "Okay, which side?" And they said, "All right, the north side would be better." And they both, one family would prefer to go back the way it was because there are so many more students. And if you look at that map, you know, it's not equitable. It is this one street, this one block that gets clogged. But they came up with the compromise. They said rather than block it all, block it off on both sides, they would like to have their kids park so we'll have the south side. That was something that they determined and it was and I have to say the parking committee uh I want to commend counselor Todd. He did a great job. We we recognized how many times and staff had reached out to the high school or to the school department or school district constantly and had no response. So I feel like we have done our due diligence. We are here to serve the residents to uh resolve issues and this was something this is a long time coming and I I would ask that folks um approve this um as it is written and let's move forward.

Any further discussion?

Yes, thank you. Um so if you look at the uh minutes of the EDAC meeting that in our packet tonight. There's a reference in there um to um the conquered high school's CRTC program and how it's at capacity and that one of the problems that they're facing is parking for students. So, this is an issue that's really a larger scale issue. I think it uh just that alone it it certainly you would say it behooves the conquered school district folks to come to the table and have some discussions and further take this up. Um I think that I'm I've always been open to doing that and I know that city staff has tried to reach out on occasions and uh and get a hold of them and try to have them uh involved in in the meeting. So that's sort of one example that I would kind of be able to promote to say, yeah, I think you you have some issues. We know that they're there and the cities have has some issues and residents have issues. So I would like to take this up further. Um I kind of viewed the uh the decision that was made at the parking committee as a compromise that would at least would take care of this problem while we go about doing that other work. Um so um I think that uh although there were no accidents, one part that kind of concerned me, there was there was some testimony that was given that um on occasion students uh parked in front of driveways. So uh I would just be concerned that if there was a medical emergency in that house, what would happen? Uh would there be an issue or a problem with the fact that emergency services might not as readily be able to access that property and uh get to those folks. So, you know, I kind of just view this as a temporary um way, a compromise as it was mentioned uh to be able to come to a resolution for this particular block. And really, it's just we're just talking about one block uh right now,

but there's a whole other larger area that I think really does need and warrant discussion. And I think the parking committee is certainly ready to take that on. I think city staff would certainly be willing to uh assist with that. We just need to be able to move that forward. Um I think that the that could be a very timeconsuming uh project as your honor will remember with the narrow streets project uh that took many many months to be able to get everyone to have the input and we would certainly want to do that in this case. We wouldn't be talking about just one block. We'd want to really expand this as large as we can to that whole general area u and get all the feedback that we could including especially uh feedback from um from Congress school district. So so you know uh be the will of the council tonight but I I was I was satisfied I'll say with the the outcome that the pardon committee uh had and again still willing to take on the larger scale issues. Thank you.

Thank you councelor counc.

Thank you your honor. I'm going to support the item to be tabled. Um, it was interesting because I was actually attending the meeting this that night for the parking committee because I had an item that was on referral, though not speaking to it simply to listen to the conversation. And as councelor McNamera pointed out, there was um a couple that had come and spoken about removing on street parking on Union Street. And they were told one family I'd uh they were requested in councelor McNamera's ward by councelor McNamera, could you bring more people from the neighborhood or have them write to us and give us some feedback? And the couple came and spoke, but it was only the couple that came and spoke. And so the item was set aside and it was not approved because only one family had come to speak. And I think in this case when we are talking about a specific block, it's almost like there was something um a different set of rules that were set up for this block as opposed to what was on Union Street. And I think that if we're going to ask people for input that we should ask neighbors to provide input and not make decisions based on such a small number of people. Thank you.

Thank you your honor. So I think uh my question will be for councelor Todd. During your conversation you have not mentioned anything related to safety. Am I correct? You don't have any safety concern. You may reply. Thank you. Um uh well I don't I don't know that there were uh any reported accidents for example u I think that that's the information that we got. No accidents right. Um I'm just sort of out a hypothetical that that doesn't mean that there couldn't potentially be some kind of a hazardous let's say situation created uh under the right circumstances. I'm not guaranteeing that that's going to happen.

Thank you honor for a followup. Um my understanding is that we don't have enough or educated information to make the decision tonight because you guys felt there is some missing part in the conversation. Am I correct?

Well, I think that it's it's just going to depend on how you look at it. I think it uh the the uh recommendation from the parking committee which was a unanimous vote was to come up with this as it's been described kind of compromise agreement so that instead of uh you'd have basically you know restricted parking on one side and open parking on the other side of the street. Um and so um uh I think that uh at least the residents that attended it seemed to satisfy those folks. Uh we didn't have 20 or 30 people there. there's not 20 or 30 houses on this one block. So, uh we did have some folks though that uh provided testimony and I think this was a good compromise. So, that solves that part. So, really what you'd be doing is basically telling those folks, well, you're going to have to wait longer until we have we're able to get the whole package together u to make a full decision. We can do that. I mean, that it's again, it's just you're you're telling a certain group of people on this one block that they'll have to wait longer. That's all it comes down to.

Thank you. Councilman.

Yes. So I would just like to address councelor Kredik's comments. She was there uh and actually at that meeting I was concerned because this couple came and spoke first. It was not a referral counsel. Uh councelor Kredic was her issue was not a referral through counsel. The the residents that spoke about this issue have this was referred through counsel. This has been years that they have been speaking. Uh the couple that spoke first on Union Street, that was the first time they had ever come before the parking committee. And they were even shocked. They were like, "Wow, I can't believe we we get to speak, you know, we we get to be first." And the meeting ended up going, you know, two hours late. I had to leave. Um but this that couple, that was the first time they had ever come before the parking committee. It did not come through the council. Um, this issue has been before the council multiple times and it's been years and I think it would be a mistake to delay this even longer because we have had mult we've had emails. We've had multiple photos. I have gone out there um to speak with residents on both sides. This is one block and I I appreciate councelor Todd wanting to look at the larger issue after let's resolve this one block and I am absolutely happy to do the leg work necessary to work with conquered high because there is a huge parking lot with right across the street from CRTC and I would love the city's support in working with that owner to provide that parking because it's vacant too most of the day. I I think that would be the ideal spot and I would like to put our efforts behind that rather than slowing something down for a uh community that

has told us they have an issue with this council. Take all the questions please. The uh move the question. Yes. Sorry. Question question has been moved. That requires a roll call vote. Uh it requires a second. Sorry. It does require a second. Thank you. requires a roll and then it requires a twoth3 vote to be moved. Councelor, I'm aware of the rules. Thank you very much. Is there anything else you'd like to elucidate? Thank you very much, madam city clerk. Roll call. This is a make it clear. Is this a roll call to move the question? This is a roll call to move the question. This is not a vote on the motion. Thank you, Mr. Councelor Brown. Yes. Mayor Champlain. Yes. Councelor Fennessy.

Yes. Councelor Foot. Yes. Councelor Grady Sexton. Yes. Councelor Horn. Yes. Councelor Kovik. Yes. Councelor Curts. Yes. Councelor Mclofflin. Yes. Councelor McMur. Yes. Councelor Sasher. Yes. Councelor Schultz. Yes. Councelor Seiku. Yes. Councelor Todd. Yes. It is unanimous.

Unanimous. The motion the the question is moved. The question before us is whether or not to table item 39. uh until such time as the school board uh the school district can be involved in a conversation about over parking I believe is the is the motion. So the question is to table this. If you're in favor of tableabling this you would vote yes. If you're in fa not in favor of tableabling this item the v your uh vote would be no. Roll call. A roll call has been requested. Council Brown. No. Mayor Champlain. Yes. Councelor Fennessy, no. Councelor Foot, yes. Councelor Grady Sexton, yes.

Councelor Horn, no. Councelor Kravik, yes. Councelor Curts, yes. Councelor Mclofflin, yes. Councelor McMur, yes. Council Schlasher, no. Council Schultz, no. Councelor Seiku, yes. And councelor Todd, no. It is 82 23 four five six. So it does pass. The motion is passed.

Madam city clerk item 40. Okay. It is a resolution appropriating the sum of $90,000 in the water plant improvements project to replace a failed boiler and authorizing the issuance of water general obligation bonds and notes in the sum of $90,000 for this purpose. Move approval. Second. Moved and seconded. Is there any discussion? All those in favor of the motion as presented, please signify by saying I. I opposed. No. Eyes have it. The motion passes by the required two/3 majority. Madam, city clerk, item number 41.

It's a resolution appropriating the sum of $14,000 for human services assistance and accepting a donation in the sum of $14,000 from the trustees of the Protestant Episcopal Church of New Hampshire for this purpose. Approval moved and seconded. Any any discussion? All those in favor of the Sorry, I'm sorry. I just want to say thank you to the Episcopal Church for this donation. Yes, indeed. Thank you. Any further discussion? Although all those in favor of the motion as presented, please signify by saying I. I. Oppos? No. Eyes have it. The motion passes. NFC clerk. Item 42.

It is a resolution retroactively appropriating the sum of $27,500 as a transfer to the highway reserve and accepting the sum of $27,500 from Shaw's supermarkets for this purpose. Move approval. Second. Second motion moved and seconded. Any discussion? All those in favor of the motion as presented, please signify by saying I. I. Oppos? No. Eyes have.

Uh, Madam City Clerk, item 43. It is a resolution authorizing the city manager to enter into a purchase and sale agreement with the Boston and Maine Corporation CSX Transportation concerning the acquisition of portions of the Boston and Maine Northern Main Line Railroad for the purpose of facilitating the Marramac River Greenway Trail Project appropriating the sum of $143,000 in the Marramck River Greenway Trail Project authorizing the issuance of general obligation bonds and notes in the sum of $105,000 and authorizing the transfer and use of $38,000 from the recreational impact fee fund for this purpose. Second.

Moved and seconded. Chair recognizes councelor Fennessy. Thank you. I just want to say I'll be recusing myself on this item because subsidiary of the firm that I work for represent CSX.

Thank you, councelor. Um, I'm very much for the Marramac River Greenway Trail. I think it's pertinent that we continue the trail system through the city, but I also implore the Stress Bell and the city staff to please have conversation with the scenic rail riders. I think they've been a member in good standing of this community. They've employed people. They helped get us through CO and be able to get outside. Um, we've heard prominent members of the community and Mr. Sink and um, Mr. Moral talk about how important it is to try to work with them and I really agree with that. Uh, they have met our goals for city council and economic development. Like they said, they bring in tens of thousands of people. They bring in money. And I really just want to try to speak to them to see if there's any way that we can work that.

Thank you, council. Council Councelor Schultz. Schultz. Um, so the decision today isn't one group or another or both or neither. It's the purchase of this, correct? The, uh, vote is on authorizing the city manager to move forward with purchase and sale agreement that was included in your packet. Followup. So we can decide yes on that and continue as uh councelor Horn suggested on the other conversations as we move forward from there.

I think that uh part of the question is that the purchase of sale agreement does require the uh or does provide for the removal of the rails. Any further discussion council.

Thank you, your honor. Uh Mr. Beckos has been waiting patiently to hear about the National Trail System Act of 1983, which was a national initiative to get people outside and reduce um greenhouse gas emissions, which oddly enough, we started the council meeting having a discussion about greenhouse gases in our city. Um, there has been one corporate sponsor most supportive of that act and it's CSX rail line. And the other rail line that hadn't been participating was Panama. And it wasn't until Panama knew that they were going to be selling this line that all of a sudden they started having these conversations with us regarding the Marramac River Greenway Trail. All that to say that this is a long time in the works. um beyond the conversation that we've had talking about 2014 etc. um conquered 2020 one of the last objectives that they did was to put together the feasibility study to see if the Marramac re uh river greenway trail from the Bowtown line to Boswin was even possible. The biggest hurdle that we had was not this. The biggest hurdle was that stretch of wetlands between um along the river between Manchester Street and Logen Road. And when New Hampshire Department of Environmental Services said yes, that sealed the deal that this was actually something that was real and true. It could happen. From that point in time is when residents in our city put together the Friends of the Marramac River Greenway Trail and they started their efforts. their biggest hope was to get that first two-mile stretch. This opportunity came along and I think that we as a community want to continue that commitment. Understanding that there are concerns about the scenic um rail riders, I hope that we could work with

them until we own it. There really isn't a conversation, which is why I'm supporting this um motion. And I hope that if there's a conversation, it can happen quickly and it doesn't delay this project. Thank you. Thank you, councelor. Any further discussion? Curts.

Yes. Thank you. Um, I would just like to um echo council Horn and Councelor Kredovvic in saying that um I think as a city it's extremely important for us to have dialogue um with business owners who have um thrown in their personal stake to make something special happen in the city of conquered. Um I will support moving forward on the purchase and sale because the length of time um that we have been working as a city to secure um the MRGT. But I do it with a a heavy heart at the thought of um not being able to uh keep scenic rail riders in business. So I implore city staff to work with them at the earliest possible convenience to see if there is any way that we can coexist respecting the engineers um and prioritizing concerns for safety and a functional rail trail.

Thank you.

Council thank you honor. I echo councelor Curts's remarks that sums up my feelings. I would just add that um uh the benefits to Pentook from this trail when completed I think will be tremendous. Um we're we're the connectivity that will be and and I think we heard some testimony from that tonight and also in our the written testimony we receive uh will be really I think uh a great boom to folks living in Pentecost and who want to travel for multi-purposes could be commuting it could be and in fact you know when we we're looking at the news reports recently there are a lot of uh younger folks who don't want to get driver's licenses who don't want to have to uh by you don't have to do it in New Hampshire, but in other states you you have to have mandatory insurance and then you have the cost of the vehicle. They can't afford it and they don't want to afford it and they want other options. This plan I think is a forwardthinking plan which uh the city I think has been so good at in a number of ways. This is this is another example of that. We're really looking toward what are the needs of the future generations. Um, so I think that um those are uh key reasons that I would not want to delay this project any longer and I'll be supporting it tonight. Excuse me. I would also um uh I'm curious though also about uh the discussion about the costs of the the the rail, the value of the rail, the fact that that's been incorporated in this deal. And I would think that there should be more information provided as we go along as to what exactly that value is and why that's been incorporated in this deal. Well, I can only imagine that uh it's to CSX's advantage to able to have that that rail pulled up and to reuse it in some fashion. Um I I would assume that that value would need to be reinccorporated into any new deal or amendment to a deal that we might want to take up. But I would look at it that way. I would look at it to to have us uh

approve this tonight and then uh look at a potential amendment if if there's one that's feasible and really have an outline of what those costs would be. Um we hear a lot of times that um folks don't particularly uh look finally on the city to uh pay for private development. Um and so uh that would be my concern. But uh if scenic rail riders are willing to uh foot some of the costs for whatever those costs might be uh then maybe we can reach some kind of an agreement if in fact there are additional hard costs that would need to be included in a new deal. So I'll definitely be supporting this uh really terrific project for the city. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Councelor Grady Saxton.

Thank you, your honor. Um, I won't repeat uh the excellent comments made by my fellow counselors, but um I do want to thank everyone who came tonight and shared their perspective and stayed till 10:30. It's really wonderful to see this level of civic participation. So, thank you all. Thank you, council. Council Brown,

yes, I had been a member of the uh Marramac River Greenway Trail for three years from 2013 to 2016. Um wore a neon green as the mascot. The greenway girl did parades, mark days, and it was exhausting the thought of fundraising for all this. I am an enthusiastic supporter of this. However, I have gone out to the scenic rail riders today. I um thought the testimony was fantastic. But what I'm hearing more is I'm hearing their ingenuity. I'm hearing their dedication. I'm hearing about their loyal customers and their employees and I feel like their business is not just for Rails. I I would love to see and I would love to personally work with you to find a way for the for your business to be su a different type of business successful in conquered because you give so much you have given so much to conquer. Um but I I do not a rail and trail. I absolutely will am happy to come and and meet with you and work with you to identify a way for you to have a business that is successful taking advantage of the rail trail that is so critical for economic development. I would like to offer an amendment that we use economic development reserves instead of general obligation bonds in the sum of 105,000. Uh in January we approved $300,000 to be transferred to the economic development reserves and as of June 2024 252,260 was there. So I believe that there is enough uh we would get the report next month. But I believe that there is

enough for the $105 um,000 that's in this report to come that is slated to come from general obligation bonds. I would prefer and I'm making an a motion that that instead come from economic development reserves. Is there a second? Hearing second. No second. The motion fails. Is there any further discussion on the motion to approve? Council second.

Thank you, your honor. I think I am going to second what everybody said here, my fellow counselors. And I think I want also to express my sincere gratitude for everyone who showed up today to share and we can see the dedication, the hard work that went through all of this. And I am also aware of running a business and how important it is to attract people here to conquer as the capital city. I think it's very important for the city to consult them to work with them and see if there is any visibility in working with them on this regard. And as they said, they are not opposing um the purchase of this or the real I'm talking about the scenic uh real roads uh real riders, I'm sorry. So I think I'm going to be supporting this as well, but I think there is always a great opportunity to listen and hear what people have to say and see explore. There is a partnership there. Thank you. Thank you, Council. Councelor Schlasser.

Yes. I just like I was I'm going to support this uh resolution, but I would just like to commit to Mr. Moral that um both the Marramck Valley Greenway folks and the city will work with him to ensure that his farm and his farm animals are safe and sound. And I'm sure that accommodation can be made. I've I've ridden the scenic rail riders. I've been out there on the the bikes, I guess they're called. I know how they work uh for the crossings that your cattle do. My son was a dairy farmer and I appreciate the importance of safety of the cattle. So, I'm sure we can work that out. Um I regret that. Um, we haven't, I guess not owning the properties, it's hard to have conversations about the property, but I think perhaps we could have convened the principles, the the moral family, the Marramck Valley, the Marramck Greenway folks, and the rail rail riders, even without owning it, to just make sure that we identify the issues so that if any issues were identified before we negoti we crafted the sales purchase and sales agreement. We could have if appropriate incorporated it. I think uh a dual use trail. My concern is that it will substantially increase the costs and and I would hate to have that cost borne by the the taxpayers. Marramac Valley, the Marramac Greenway folks are doing a lot to raise both grants and donations. I'm not sure where the other monies would come from to fund a dual use trail. U I we don't know those numbers, but that would be my concern. So I will be supporting this as and hope that we can have further conversations with all three parties to have the best resolution possible.

Thank you, councelor. Anyone else? Council, just want to clarify. By voting yes, you would be also supporting the removal of the rails. That's part of that's part of the purchase and sale agreement. I see that it's if I may, Mr. May, I see that it's going to pass. Um I'm inclined to vote no because of that piece. Uh I know that it's going to pass. I just feel uneasy leaving that open-ended with the rail trail with the rail riders folks as well. I'm appreciate the encouragement of the conversation. I feel uneasy about that piece of it. Thank you, councelor. Council,

thank you, your honor. Um, I understand where you're coming from, councelor Schultz. I think that the direction of the council, uh, what the city manager and his staff will take away from this is conversation with all the parties.

Thank you, councelor. I will be voting in support of the of the prevailing motion. Uh I too appreciate all of the testimony that we received not only here in this room but also the many uh emails that we received uh in support uh of uh this uh effort as well as supporting uh the scenic rail riders. Uh I appreciate the Leblanc's uh time this morning to talk to me uh over coffee about this issue. Um I'm supporting this motion uh because I feel that uh time is of the essence uh on this project. As has already been uh mentioned uh this project has gone on and on and on due to uh factors that were beyond the control of the of the city uh despite all the work put into negotiating with Panaman uh and the state and then uh CSX. Uh my concern um as has been mentioned in the testimony uh is that further delay jeopardizes losing uh the grant money that we have uh uh acquired so far uh and uh any change in the purchase and sale agreement at this juncture would cause delay. I also am very concerned about uh CSX's appetite for further negotiations. U so I think that we need to strike while the iron is hard. I regret the impact this may have on scenic rail riders. I deeply appreciate uh their operation in our city, their support, the membership in the chamber of commerce. Um at the same time, as has been mentioned several times uh in the testimony tonight and also in some of the correspondence we've received, there's great economic value to be gained through uh continuation of the rail trail from the north to the south going through the city. So I will be as I said voting in favor of the motion. Are we ready for the motion?

Yes. All those in favor of the motion as presented please signify by saying I. I oppose. No. No. The motion passes with the required two/3 majority.

This brings us to unfinished business. I recognize I have a question though your honor. I know we voted on this, but is it what councelor Kovik said about the city consulting or talking with the three? Is that part of the conversation as well? Is that captured in our I think the city staff heard those comments. Okay. Our authorization our authorization is to move forward with the purchase and sale. Excellent. Thank you. I could.

Yes, council. Yes. So, ju just so you're aware, what what essentially you did was um which is what we asked you to do was we're now back uh to October 18th, 2021. That's where we are. So, we're no further along than we were on that day when the state of New Hampshire exercised their right of first refusal. So, we're going to go through that process all over again. And in the meantime, hopefully the grant doesn't doesn't disappear

and then um they have as much really time, you know, they have time to do that, to do what they need to do. And then if uh we get to that point, we would we would hopefully get to a closing by February of 2026 and then we would own the property hopefully. So there's there's a ways to play out here. Um so again, we're back to October 18, 2021. That's where we are. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So excellent, Council Credit.

Thank you, Adam. Um uh your honor, item number 44 in unfinished business was the um ordinance that we had left on the table um from the Heritage Commission since we made that motion to accept the revisions in item number 37 of the agenda. I move to close this item. Second move and second. Any discussion? All those in favor, please signify by saying I. I oppose. No. Eyes have it. The motion passes. This brings us to items pulled from the consent agenda. Councelor rather madam city clerk.

Yes, thank you. Item number 14 was pulled from the consent u pulled from consent by council brown. It's a dimminimous gifts and donations report from the library director requesting authorization to accept gifts and donations totaling $3,688. Thank you, Council Brown.

Yes. So, uh, actually this is I pulled this because one of the donations was $1,000 from the Katherine Papathus Revocable Trust and uh, that trust is has nothing in it. Um, and it hasn't since 2017. So, I had a conversation with the library director and I thought it would be helpful uh, to understand the process of us receiving donations when there is an existing trust. the he said they received the thousand dollars and my understanding is that thousands will have to be deposited into this pre-existing trust and then he will have to request that money to come out again. So, I'm sorry. You

Yeah, I I've No, I mean I don't understand what your point is. Council, I'm asking if that is if that is what happens because the trust as it is right now has nothing in it. There is a trust in our MS9 reports, Katherine Papis uh revocable trust and there

revocable trust. revocable, revocable. Um, it is it has at one time had almost 10,000 in it and that was in 2016. So, it has been in existence since 2016, but there's no money in it. So, this looks like it's $1,000 coming from something that has nothing in it. And is the library director here? Yeah. Is he here? Yeah, now he's sick. He's sick. Okay. I mean, can the finance director explain how are the donations?

Good evening, Mr. Mayor. Members of the council, Mr. Lebron.

So, this is a donation that has been granted to the city of conquered 000. That donation will be deposited into the trust based on city council's approval of this item. That thousands will remain in that trust until the city council takes a further action to appropriate that money. Just because there's no money in the trust now, if there's a trust um established under that name, the dollars will just sit there. Uh I would assume that during the course of the year or during a budget the city council would appropriate the dollars and then the dollars could be used as a funding source for something in the library. So this is a donation that we've received that will be placed across till that till the council gives authorization to appropriate that money. It can't be

council. Yes. So the other items that are in here they don't go into the trust. They go the other items. I believe I don't have it right in front of me, but the other items are uh for grants and donations account. So that goes into a separate grants and donations fund that we have. Thank you. Do you want to make a motion council? I make a motion that we approve and report. Second. All in favor? Oppos? Eyes have it. The motion is adopted. Uh clerk item 18.

This was pulled from consent by councelor Kredic and then councelor Brown. It's a report from the deputy city manager in finance recommending approval of the proposed 2026 Beaver Meadow Golf Course rate structures as recommended by the golf course advisory committee. Council Credit. Thank you, your honor. I I'd like to start by making a motion to approve their report and the rate structure for 2026. Second. Moved and seconded. Okay.

And then if I can speak to my motion. Um, believe it or not, Beaver Meadow Golf Course just had an extraordinary milestone. We've exceeded $2 million in revenue for the first time in its history. And this success is no accident at all. It's the direct result of years of intentional work to increase play, attract new members, and operate the course in a financially responsible manner. The golf course advisory committee has recommended modest rate rate adjustments that will generate more than $189,000 in additional revenue for the 2026 reason. Um these funds go directly towards the operational expenses of the course ensuring continued financial independence from the general fund for protecting the taxpayer resources. All city departments and facilities receive some level of taxpayer support. And while the G golf course does cover all of its operational expenses, some of the capital improvement program items are funded by taxpayers. Keeping things real and truthful. Every department is touched by the CIP and funded by taxpayers. For all divisions, operational expenses primarily cover our employee wages and their benefits. While capital expenses involve the card hard asset costs such as roads, firet trucks, police vehicles, even irrigation systems and facilities across the city. As a council, we made a commitment just two months ago to the taxpayers that the new clubhouse would have no financial impact for two years. That is until fiscal year 2028. and the gap to expend that commitment by one more year was $40,000 as reported by our city manager. This rate adjustment begins building toward

that goal now offsetting what would otherwise be a personal cost of 25 cents a month for the average valued home. It's important to remember that 73% of our budget across the city goes towards our employee paychecks and their benefits. These employees are the true asset of our community who keep our services running. Supporting our parks, pools, libraries, roads, public safety, recreational spaces, and more is part of a social contract in our community. And it includes the golf course, the airport, and the Ever Arena as well. These are all the things that make conquered work. Together, as a community, we invest in what makes conquered a great place to live. This perspective is essential to maintain. The ongoing scrutiny of the golf course t dates back to well over June 2022 and it includes more than a hundred inquiries into its operations. This level of focus has not been seen in any other facility. This disproportionate attention is fostering division rather than collaboration. And conquered is not an us versus them community. We are a we community where every resident plays a part in building a positive inclusive future together, including a wide variety of recreational opportunities that we offer here. And with one of those facilities, Beaver Meadow Golf Course, generates more than $2 million in revenue. It demonstrates that these investments can deliver both community value and strong financial results. So I urge my fellow counselors to support the community vetted recommendation from the Gulf Advisory Board volunteers who this year have faced unfair and deeply personal targeting. Instead of criticism, this council can express its gratitude for their hard work and

dedication by approving these recommended rate changes for the 2026 season. Thank you for listening. Um, I would like to offer an amendment to accept the report with the slight change of not giving the steep discounts or the varied rates to the New Hampshire Golf Association. Council, could you move your microphone? Yes. Did you catch Did you catch the motion? I think she wants to eliminate whatever is referenced rates for the New Hampshire Golf. association. Could you repeat the motion?

I'd like to offer to pass all the rates as they are except amending to have the New Hampshire Golf Association pay the normal tournament rates and not It doesn't give us any. It just says rates stipulated by their proposal. Okay. Thank you. Is there a second? Do you lack any second? The motion fails. Council Brown.

Yes. I would like to The reason I pulled this Um, and the reason I do not believe we should accept these rates is they don't even meet the budget that we approved. If you look at the expectation that these rates will bring, they do not and you look at our budget, they are below uh what we ex what we have budgeted for revenue. For example, the daily fees is below revenue. The cart rental the expectation is that in 2026 they will raise 335,000. Instead, these rates say they will only raise 279,823. the si the golf simulator revenue the expectation is that it would raise n that we should have 92,000 but these rates only will bring in 76,523 and the uh member revenue is lower than what is listed and we know this because some of the members purchased their membership early so they enjoyed the 2024 for rates. They're not they did not pay the full uh the full rate. So, we need to make sure that the rates actually meet the revenue for the budget because they're we have an expectation that the golf fund will be generating enough revenue to contribute to the clubhouse. Right now, they're not even meeting the budget that we approved for 2026. The fees that we set should at least support the budget. And I do not understand why we are allowing the New Hampshire Golf Association to use our

property for free. We are paying people to mow the grass. I was out there today. They're watering. a lot of the fees, a lot of the rates are not being uh we're not charging the New Hampshire Golf Association for a number of their tournaments. I don't think taxpayers elected us to grow the game of golf. I Why that one sport? There are so many other sports that many of our residents enjoy. There is no reason why we should be allowing a separate entity to be charging for tournaments that they are not paying us for. And they're profiting in a big way. They are marketing uh they are collecting sponsorships for their uh tournaments that they ho that they host at our golf course. And when they do that, they are blocking off opportunities for our residents to use the golf course. There is this great program called T-SNAP. Phil Davis talked about it all the time in 2018. He said he would produce reports uh for the committee so that they could look at the data to understand when to have tournaments and when to increase revenue. It made sense and it was great. The golf advisory committee did not receive any reports from this program, T-SNAP. Yet T-nap, there was a tournament today and I was out there, the golf course was empty, but if you tried to schedule a tea time, you couldn't because Tesnap said there are no tea times available. So, we have leagues, loads of leagues, and you know, we have um salaries that are increasing. I don't understand why

the none of the leagues are increasing. The memberships are so far below other golf courses. The senior rate is over $1,200 lower than Canterbury. If you look at this sheet that we received comparing the other courses, you have to compare 2025. The rates for 2025 and the ones presented for the other courses are 2025. They are hundreds of dollars lower than other courses. So, we are giving away um our space. We're giving away time and we're charging taxpayers more. I think that we need to go back. We can need to table this so that the rates at least get us to budget and I would like to see T-SNAP reports that show how many the rounds are decreasing. So we have decreasing rounds, we have decreasing simulator revenue. Um the golf course is not going to be generating enough money to pay the debt service for the parking lot uh that we just approved. They're not going to be making budget to contribute to the clubhouse. We can't approve these rates as they are right now.

Any further discussion? Councelor Fenny.

Thank you. Um, respectfully, I have no idea where this math is coming from. Um, I was at the meeting that went about I think two and a half hours where the committee came up with its recommendations for rates. Uh the city manager was there at the beginning sort of talking through sort of his expectations where rates needed to go. Um the story that you were just told of rounds being down and does not compute with any information that I've received in the last five years uh serving on the golf advisory committee. Um there was a very wholesome discussion about uh where we should go on rates both greens fees and um the season pass rates. Um we have increases that are you know definitely significantly higher than than we've traditionally done in the past and there's a lot of back and forth about you know how much of an increase we should do. uh as compared to competitors but also maintaining um affordable rates for the citizens uh because um one of the things that we recognize is obviously taxpayers are contributing. So, one of the things that got added at councelor Kredik's uh suggestion is that for non-residents of conquered that they would have to pay uh a capital fee now as part of the season pass which was sort of a reasonable uh I think way in which to recognize sort of that additional amount that taxpayers would be uh paying for the sort of capital improvements that they expect with the uh the clubhouse. Um, we've had increasing revenues over the last five years. Um, this year it went over $2 million, which was pretty

significant. Um, I'm I think it would be in the best interest of the council to approve the rates as they've been recommended by the committee. Um, I think there was a lot of time and effort put into him and I think uh I I think it's not in the best interest of this council to try and micromanage any department in the city. Um, I'm not sure anybody sitting around this table is qualified to make determinations about how best to run a golf course. Maybe the city manager. Um, but uh the rest of us sitting around here I I don't think have those uh training and experience to do that. So, Uh I'm much more comfortable um deferring to the recommendations that the committee in connection with the professionals that we have working there uh came up with.

Um the chair is going to entertain a motion to allow the city council to uh continue working after 11:00. So move seconded. All in favor? I opposed. No. No. All right. All right. Uh, Councelor Kurts, thank you. Um, could someone just speak to um why New Hampshire Golf rates stipulated by New Hampshire Golf proposals? Um, I just have I'm curious about why we're not setting terms for what we charge. Council,

thank you, your honor. Thank you for the question. I'm I'm not the person that sets those rates with the exception that um the New Hampshire Golf Association, the tournaments that they hold at Beaver Meadow, the entry fee covers a portion of the Greens fees and then there is a secondary portion that is a duplicate. So, for example, there was a two-day tournament earlier this year. They were partner tournament teams. $25 per day per player for the entry fee. on one day and day two. So, it's essentially $100. And the second half of that money goes to Pro Shop Credit, meaning you win the tournament, you get money back. It's a guaranteed sale in the clubhouse to equipment because they are amateurs. They cannot win cash and therefore the prize is basically a gift certificate only to be spent in the golf uh in the golf course clubhouse. That gift certificate in turn guarantees sales in the pro shop of the equipment that we fund every year in advance with the budget. So while it looks as though it is a lower greens fee, it's lower greens fee, but it also comes with it a partnering sale in the pro shop where other golf tournaments do not have that. When it goes to a charitable organization, those funds go to the charitable organization and therefore the green fee is higher. followup.

Yes, please. Councelor Kred Vvic I I believe you're speaking to tournament fees. I see in the blue where it talks about pro shop credit. I'm I'm maybe I'm misunderstanding. I'm asking about lower on the page where in the New Hampshire golf in bold it says rate stipulated by NHG proposals events and rates subject to change year-over-year. And then there's a note about continuing to support New Hampshire golf um to grow the game of golf. I'm just is it is it just do we have nothing to quantify what they pay for tournaments? Is it a wild card? Because that's how it appears. I apologize if you answered me and I did not understand that you were answering

approaching the table. Thank you, Mr. Lebron. Mayor, members of the city council, I have Pat Lman here with me. And uh just as we get started, I just like to just like to note that Pat has been promoted to the um position of director of operations permanently for golf course. So very very pleased to report that this evening. Congratulations.

Thank you. So to answer your question, the the New Hampshire Golf Association, and Pat has more details than I would have. Um, but the New Hampshire Golf Association, they really don't pay us a whole lot of money to play golf at Beaver Meadow, which, you know, we understand that. And and and that's something that the Beaver Meadow has done for many, many years. And the reason that we've looked at it that way uh over the years is that it's provided a lot of exposure to Beaver Meadow that has brought a lot of people there. um that may or may not have come to Beaver Meadow. Overall, it's good exposure in the golf industry. It's good exposure in the um it's good just good exposure in the golf business across the state of New Hampshire. If the city council doesn't want to do it any longer, we can tell the, you know, New Hampshire Golf Association that, you know, the city council won't allow to do this anymore. But they're the ones that when they bring their uh events around, they say, "This is how much we're willing to pay for the event. It's either take it or leave it." So, it's not something like we can go in and say, "Well, this is our rate." You know, they won't pay that. They'll go someplace else to to do, you know, whatever they have to do. So, did I explain that correctly?

Yeah, that's correct. Can I follow up? Follow. Is that the relationship that New Hampshire golf has with all the places where they hold tournaments? Yeah. When they hold these kind of events, they basically say, you know, this this the New Hampshire Golf Association goes in and they have these events at different places and they say, "This is, you know, this is the event. It's, you know, they look at it also as good exposure for the golf course. You know, this is what we we can pay and then and if you want to do it, you do it. If you don't want to do it, you don't do it. Beaver Meadow has done it for many years. You know, again, part of the golf industry, part of golf in New Hampshire, good exposure for Beaver Meadow. Again, if the council doesn't want us to do us, you know, tell us. We'll let them know and then we won't do it after this year. Thank you. That was very helpful.

Mr. Lin, could you outline like impact? So, what's the advantage to Beaver Meadow? You said good exposure. What does that mean? Yeah, I I guess certainly the exposures brings people to the golf course. So, you know, we have we've had certainly have fluctuations in in memberships over the the years and so um but but certainly over the past five or six years when we've had a reduction in uh memberships, we've our greens fees is just completely booked. So, you know, we have, you know, maybe a reduction in in uh memberships, an increase in greens fee. If we have an increase in memberships, our green fees are down a little bit. Honestly, the, you know, the the members are extremely important. The outings are extremely important. You know, the daily green fees are extremely important. So, we look at it and you have to kind of balance all of those out, but we make the most money on daily green fee play. And a lot of those people almost always rent cards. So, it's, you know, you're getting the money from the greens fees and the carts, whereas some other situations, you don't necessarily get all of it.

Thank you. Uh, council. Um, I'm concerned about giving New Hampshire Golf I'm concerned about the wording especially on here is that we're growing the game of golf for New Hampshire. They're New Hampshire Golf is a 501c3. So their 990s are online. You can look them up. I just picked a random year because I was not sure how long we've been helping them grow. But in 2014 they had $454,000 in revenue. Their latest report in 2023, they're up to 1.1 million in revenue. Their assets in 2014 were 178,000. Now their assets are 862,000. So I feel like we've helped them grow their game substantially. And in our city, we have so many other sports. Youth sports have been declining in participation since 2019. Um and CO did not help that. And the former US surgeon general said that loneliness, lack of connection or public health challenge that needs immediate attention when children are dropping out of sports. Um it can cause increased anxiety, depression, contribute to decline in overall physical activity. Team sports offer opportunity for social development, teamwork, which can be missed when participation declines. Um the best way to address decline is investment in community- based programs. So, I feel like just picking golf out and saying that we're funding them to help grow the game of golf is sort of hurtful to conquer Crush or New Hampshire Lightning or the multiple youth sports programs that we have. And I think for equity, it's one way or the other. We either don't sponsor New Hampshire golf or we come up with a way

to help grow the games that I've just mentioned here through giving, you know, reductions in fees at parks and wreck and things like that. That was my only I think I appreciate the time put in to come up with the other fees. I think they're all reasonable. I think it's fair to keep our fees a little bit lower. That's what people enjoy about the golf course. But funding this 51c3 that seems to be doing pretty well, I just don't think is for us as a community. Thank you, Council Council Brown.

Yes. Uh I would also like to thank you, Council Horn. Also, um there has been no investment in our our kids, conquered kids. There is still nothing in the conquered parks and wreck uh summer fall brochure for our kids. And that's a problem. And when I look at parks and recreation, they are very clear about their fees and res uh reservations and that should be the same at Beaver Meadow. New Hampshire Golf Association should have to pay the tournament rate. They should have to pay um in advance. Um it is astounding to me that this one organization throughout conquered has been given a pass. Uh and this is 169 acres. We have um home manufactured homes that are going to be hit with increased uh tax bills and the golf course is it going to be a big chunk of that? The debt service for the clubhouse is $476,000 a year for 20 years. And I don't see how these fees are going to contribute to that, especially not if we're giving a pass to an organization that, as Councelor Horn pointed out, is doing very well.

Any other comment? Councelor Curts, just to clarify, Mr. LeBron, if we do not accept what New Hampshire Golf is offering, they would we we don't get to set the price. They would just not hold events at Beaver Meadow. That's exactly right. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Ready for the question? Could you rephrase the It's the question is The motion is to approve item 18 to accept the report. I'd like to make a motion to table this until uh the rates are brought to meet budget. There's no math. You can I I can assume that the golf association

counselor. Is there a second? There being no second, the motion fails. Are we ready for the question? Move to accept the report. The motion has been made and seconded. Thank you. Thank you, counselor. All right. All those in favor of the motion as presented, please signify by saying I. Roll call has been requested. Madam city clerk. Councelor Brown. No. Mayor Champlain. Yes. Councelor Fennessy. Yes. Councelor Foot. Yes. Councelor Grady Sexton. Yes. Councelor Horn. No. Councelor K is not here. Councelor Kick. Yes. Councelor Curts. Yes. Councelor Mclofflin. Yes. Councelor McNamera.

Yes. Councelor Spasher, yes. Yes. Councelor Schultz, yes. Councelor Seiku, yes. And councelor Todd, yes. Motion passes. Thank you. Uh the next item uh is item 27. Madam City Clerk, this was pulled from consent by councelor Brown. It's a resolution rescending the appropriation of the sum of $4,41,370.78 in various funds retroactive to June 30th. Counselor.

Yes. So, I pulled this because I did not understand uh the language um in the report. I'm not sure if this is if where this if this money is going somewhere else. If this money was expended,

thank you so much for having me up here again. We missed you. I knew you did. So, um I also have Audrey Masters here with me. She's actually the author of the report, so I'll let her address the issue. Uh sure. So, good evening members of the city council. Mayor,

um this report basically and the accompanying resolution um essentially is a housekeeping effort, a long overdue and very extensive housekeeping effort. Um the vast majority of these grants that we are deauthorizing are reimbursement basis. So we only get paid what we pay out. Um and as you can see from kind of the more detailed list, a lot of it is um small, you know, type grant projects for uh police patrols, fire training programs. There's a number of CDBG, which is community development block grant money as well. Um, which again, you know, that's basically us passing the dollars through to some sort of subgrantee. Um, and there's, you know, for the most part, those are, you know, the projects have been completed. Um, and then that is basically money that's just left over where we had kind of applied for and had been authorized by city council more than what ended out being necessary and needed.

Follow. Yes. So I'm just so the amount to deauthorize that's because this is reimbursement. So you were authorized let's say I'll use um the first the one the aeronautics bureau the amount to deauthorize is 32,000. So that is an example of you were authorized 32,000 more than what you used. Correct. Okay. Thank you. That's uh Okay. So this none of this money is actually sitting with us. No. Okay. No. Thank you. That is very helpful. I did not understand the report. Sounds suspiciously like what I told you two hours ago.

Council Horn, it's late, so forgive me. I can't remember, but I feel like there was stuff on there from 2020ish. Is it typical to go that long before

this report that you're doing and the deauthorizing? So, when I say this was long overdue, um, some of this goes back even further. Um, and even before I started here in 2017, I know it's something Brian and I have talked about for a while. Um, you know, kind of going through this process. We go through the CIP closeout process, which looks at CIP projects, but have never done any sort of review of this nature with the grant projects. Um, so this was kind of an exhaustive review of close to about 300 projects total. Um, this is something that we are hoping to continue on an annual basis. So I don't anticipate that it'll be nearly to this volume or a number of projects in the future. So this is a very long overdue.

Perfect. Thank you. Move approval of the report. Second. Second. Moved and seconded. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Oppos? No. The eyes have it. The motion passes. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mike. Thank you very much. My great Somebody turned up the microphones. Uh this brings us to uh comments requests. Suspense. Oh, I'm sorry. Suspense. Thank you very much. All right. Motion to suspend the rules. So, or second. So, whatever. All those in favor say goodbye by saying I. I passes by the required two/3 majority.

Uh madam city cler Uh the suspense one item is a report to council from the city solicitor's office regarding house bill 467 city manager.

This is you can see there's an extensive time frame in the report under the social district uh timeline. Uh you have an opportunity under House Bill 467 uh that was just recently signed into law to uh define an outdoor area, persons may consume alcoholic beverages sold by a license. We don't have any particular areas in mind. It's just if you want to keep this option uh out there, this has to be on the ballot that comes up in November. So you have a whole series of uh things that need to happen. John, you want to um talk and talk anything specifically that you need to get into it?

John Conford, deputy city solicitor, Mr. Mayor, members of the uh city council, I'll be brief. Um as uh city manager said, the uh legislator's recently authorized social districts um but that is being done at the local option uh of each municipality. Um so in order to move forward if we have any interest in moving forward with a social district um we would need to put it on a ballot. Um obviously next election opportunity would be in November. So the timeline for that is the if you wanted to as a as a legislative body you could decide on your own to place that on a ballot. Um, you do not need to have a public hearing just to take the action to place it on the ballot, although you you can. Uh, but you only have until your September meeting to do that. Um, so if you do want to have a public hearing before making a decision as to whether to put it on the ballot, that would have to be done at your next meeting in September. Um, at that point, if you decide to move forward with putting it on the ballot, um, then there would need to be a public hearing uh, before the ballot initiative, which has to happen within a shot clock period, which would sit actually perfectly within your October bidding. So, you could have a public u hearing in October if you decided to put it on the ballot.

So, can I paraphrase you? May I paraphrase you? Sure. So, basically what we're doing, what we're looking at right now is do we notice this for a public hearing at our next meeting in uh September uh where we then after the public hearing would decide whether to put this on the ballot. Correct. Okay. Thank you, Councelor Kredic.

Thank you, your honor. Uh I'll be supporting this action. Um I think it's really important for our community to look at the organizations we support like in town conquered for market days. They typically have to have a beer tent. It would allow them to have a social district at their event that could be uh more expansive and more inclusive. It'll also allow the opportunity for other nonprofit organizations to as well have events. We are um about to embark on our 250 300 anniversary in the city of conquered. We're hoping that more nonprofit organizations can participate in those events. And oddly enough, our constitution was ratified because people were drinking alcohol. Thank you. That's an interesting take on history. Thank you.

I do have a caution and a concern because I think the example that you just gave in town city of Concord, the license will be to the in town, right? Correct. Who is going to administrate when it's time to cut them off because they had too much drinks? Because we are talking about it as social. So that's my concern, the safety concern of our resident. Mr. Confori, would you, if I may ask you, could you explain how if if in fact we put this on the ballot and the voters approve it, could you explain how it works?

Yes. So approving it on the ballot would just give you the opportunity to set up social districts in the future. um you the municipality would then have to make a decision on where you would set it up and then there's a maintenance plan that would need to be established and submitted to the liquor commission. Uh the liquor commission would then need to approve that. So there are a number of things that we already know need to happen. For example, there needs to be signage. There need to be designated points uh at the edges of the social districts where uh liquor can be uh thrown out before you exit the social district. Uh there are restrictions on the lenses. So these will obviously all be people who have existing liquor licenses. They have restrictions on the type of um containers that they can serve in where these can be served. Um these uh this liquor can't cross lens ees. So for example, if you go to the bar a and out. You could come out into the social district and enjoy that outside, but you can't then go into bar B with that.

How about if it's empty? Even if it's empty, I you have to go and get another another container because actually each container has to be labeled specific to the LE so it can be identified for the LE. So the the other thing I'll just say briefly is there this just passed literally the statute has not gone into effect yet. It includes a requirement that the liquor commission develop administrative rules which obviously they have not done yet. So there'll be additional requirements and um and rules that go around the creation of the social district but that will be a process that the city will have to go through with the liquor commission if we decide to go that route. Followup.

Thank you your honor. Just as a followup because my understanding is that you said it's going to be existing licensing. So it's not like the organization that are organizing the event. It's more like people that already had the license. Is that correct?

You my understanding is you would have to have a liquor license as right now in the way that that if you're a pouring establishment uh as you are now. I know that at for example uh market days that there are people who have licenses to serve at that. So you can have a license it would be the licenses as they are now. Um you would be able to serve as a lency. This is just again creating a district where people can consume outside as they move from lency to lency. Yes.

Thank you your honor. As a follow up on that, during that process, do we have the authority to dictate how many alcohol people can consume or that will be just based on the licensing people that have the license have to take that ownership? So, it's the the responsibility for serving and all the rules and laws associated with that remain with the lency who's serving the alpha. We will have some responsibilities with regard to maintaining the district and signage and security and those types of things and making sure that we make clear where the boundaries are of that district. But in terms of the actual service that that responsibility would remain with the legacy. Thank you councelor Fendy.

I'd like to make a motion to set this down for a public hearing in September. Second move and seconded. Any further discussion? All those in favor please signify by saying I. Oppos? No. Eyes have it. Now we have public comment. Foot.

Oh, thank you your honor. Um, briefly I attended National Night Out. I just wanted to thank all the city staff, police, fire, general services for their turnout. What a great job they did representing the city. It was neat. Um, and then, uh, secondly, uh, we had another clean up over in East Coch about a month ago. Council Kurt showed up along with about 12 other volunteers from actually all over the city. West Conquered, East Conquered, South Conquered, Panakook. It was pretty cool. Cleaned up Colonel John Pecker Park at the intersection of Mountain Road and Shaker Road. So, thanks for everyone that showed up. Are we going this way this time?

We're going this way.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, I decided I was going to speak about two incidents that happened in our city. There's a a difficult segue to the third one, so hang in there with me. I'm going to be as brief as everyone else. Um, first I want to thank um, Chief Chisum did a wonderful job on the night of a horrible fire in Ward 8 um, in what was an inextensively, you know, ostensibly a difficult time for our firefighters. Um, the way he spoke to citizens through WUR was about as good as anyone handling crisis communications could do with conveying difficult information with confidence and um definitely made me proud to be a conquered city counselor and I um want to say to the firefighters uh who responded to that difficult incident that their work matters. Um I think all of us feel that way. Then there was a second uh event. Um an unfortunate pedestrian death in W 9 on Lowden Road um recently. Again, a difficult job that our police officers have to do to investigate after a difficult incident and the death of a of a citizen. Um then as well um I really appreciate all of their efforts as well and I'm sure everyone here does. I think that in both instances I can't imagine what it must be like to be a first responder doing your job professionally yet knowing you have to delay whatever feelings you have about what happened. And I just want I I ask this um any way that this can be conveyed on our behalf to thank the firefighters and the police

officers for their public service um and representing us and doing their professional duties on those days. They have the great uh gratitude of all of us um however we convey that awkward segue to the third situation. Um, as you, I'm sure, no doubt know, there was an incident of Nazis, I'll call them Nazis, my word, um, arriving in our Capitol City recently without a permit. Um, there was an organization that has, uh, had a permit on City Hall Plaza, the 5051 or 50501. I've heard it pronounced a couple different ways. They had a permit and they have been peacefully assembling for many months now. I participated. I know I'm not the only one that has participated in their I feel healthy, nonviolent um frustrations with our uh federal government in in that um in those instances. But uh the Nazis showed up on that same day. And here's the the question that there's no, as far as I know, decent way for any citizen to raise this issue any other way than through us uh at this period of time. So, I hope no one feels blindsided, but it was my impression that the FBI gave the Conquer Police Department the heads up that the Nazis would be there on that day ahead of time. From what I understand, and again through the media, not through any special connection I have as a counselor, that none of this was communicated with the citizens who had the permit to give them the heads up that there would be um this difficult uh potential encounter. We do have peacekeepers that are well trained to be there that are civilians that

participate in these sort of events. Um and they do their best to keep things becoming violent. There was an unfortunate act of violence that I know nothing about. Um, but I do think that if this is true that our police department and our city were given the heads up in some way, shape, or form ahead of time, that the Nazis are going to be there, I would like to request that we let those that are permented know that this is going to happen in a way that's fair and safe for everybody. I think that um why that didn't seem to happen is of concern to me. So again, awkward uh transition to that topic, but I think it bears asking in this forum. Um and I would love to follow up uh in whatever way is appropriate from these remarks to make sure that our citizens are uh well informed. And again, I appreciate the police officers and the firefighters and all of our first responders for all they do for our city and I believe in free speech and I'll leave it at that for now. Um, thank you.

Thank you, Council President. Thank you, Honor. Hard to follow, but I'm sorry.

It is. Um, I personally spoke with the city manager. I spoke with many other law enforcement on this issue because as you said safety is key component of what I believe and what I try every day. I had um to answer many questions including talking to her. I do want to second what councelor Schult said about our firefighters about the fire that happened in W 8. I personally spoke with the chief um about this and trying to see if there was any need and what should I do to support people that were affected by this fire. And he took his time to explain exactly what they do from the time they come in contact with folks affected by this to the time that they put them in shelters. people with family goes to their families, people without the family, they take care of them and all the process was explained to me and I felt confident that they were in good hands. So, thank you for raising that. I have two things. Um, first I want to say W 8 counselor and W nine counselor and again state representative Chris Schult is pleased to announce we are hosting a community conversation on August 19 from 6 to 8 at this communitywide center. We will be joined by our state senator Terara Riden, our state representative Merrill Gibbs, our state representative James Rosen Rosener Rosener and State Representative Gary Woods all are invaded and my slogan in this is your word, your voice. Please show up, ask your questions and let's

get this together. We look forward to this conversation. My second thing is that I had the honor and privilege to represent the city of Concord at the disability pride parade on Saturday, July 26 organized by Abel New Hampshire and I read the city proclamation. It was a very well attended and very well organized. Thanks counselor um Schult for attending and we got a chance to connect and talk about many issues that are affecting our community and also the great opportunity and the blessing that the city has. On that note, we met a lot of community leaders and we met a lot of our community members that are doing outstanding work there. So, thanks to all that made it happen, that made this a successful event. I have a question because u this I don't know when was the right time to ask this question but this is for you counelor during yes you during your conversation earlier um you said that we have of course let me just say this I personally appreciate the expert and experience that the city management and operation of golf course bring but during your conversation you said that We don't have that authority or power or experience I'm sorry to make a decision on that is that part of our authority also to set the golf course uh numbers rates even if we don't have the experience we do have the authority

I think my comment was more to the effect that we sitting around here don't have the knowledge and experience to uh run the business operations of a golf course. That's why we have a city manager, we have a deputy city managers, we have professionals who work at the golf course. So, you know, uh I don't think we should be trying to micromanage how departments work. Um but the responsibility that we have on taxpayers because now we are talking about rates we are talking about citizen resident of the city of conqueror we do have the authority to make sure that the price we set determine that is that correct

Mr. city manager. I'll tell you how how I took it. Okay. I took it as is the city council responsibility to manage the policy and the cost association with the budget just as you would in anything else which is in reality you think about almost every cost item is a policy decision. You're making decisions on how it all works. So that is all completely your responsibility and that's what you should be doing. And but in terms of the day-to-day management pieces of it, as you've always said to me, no, that's your job.

No, that's your job. And I don't need that to be honest with you. But I just want you to clarify that because I took it a different level. It's like it's not our responsibility. We should not be mingle. Okay. Thank you. Anything? If I had anything, I forgot.

Thank you. I wrote two things down. Um, if anyone gets this far in the meeting, September 7th at Everett Arena, the Boston Bruins Fanfest is coming to town, one of three locations, um, from 11:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. This is a free event. So, if you have a hockey fan or a Bruins fan or just a sports fan or you need something to do, um, they do encourage you to register in advance, nhl.com, um, and then click on the link for FanFest. And I am not a hockey mom, but there was something about equipment fittings. So, if you're a parent getting your kiddo into hockey and you want some professional advice on what size of all the things, um, check out that part of it. Okay. Also, we are in the middle of the Sunflower Bloom Festival at Sunfox Farm, which is an amazing agricultural asset. Um, right in the middle of our urban corridor. Um, 10 to 6 daily, the start of the 9th, running through the 17th. $12 for adults. Kids 10 and under free. Maybe councelor Brown knows if I got that wrong. Kids are free. Double check online. Uh Sun Fox.

I was just gonna say that too. Go to Sunf Fox Farm. It is fabulous. Beautiful. Um attracts everyone. And if you're not a golfer, go to Beaver Meadow and just observe. Just watch. I You can bike out there and hang out on the patio. Just watch. You can't bike on the golf course. No, you bike. You can bike there, too. Yes, bike there. And you can also walk around it. There's the upland trail, so you can you can see what it looks like. But yeah, you can hang out on the patio and and watch.

I want to give a shout out to Helen and Gray Fitzgerald who have started the flower garden down at the corner of Washington and North State. They've been working on this for 15 years, and it's quite the pollinator garden. He needed to take a break. Um, so our wonderful um, Lucy Gentle has taken it over and she has gotten volunteers. I want to shout out for Kevin Gray, Millie Lane. If you stop at that intersection, you'll be amazed with all the bees and all the buzzing, all the pollinators. It's just pretty phenomenal. So, thank you to those wonderful people for adding some beauty to that intersection. Thank you, counselor.

Thank you. Um, I wanted to just briefly thank uh my fellow colleagues here at the council table that reached out after the article in the conquered monitor regarding the um discussion that we had at the DEIJB committee, especially those that understood that something was wrong in the article. Um, while the newspaper has since issued a ret retraction, that correction just didn't seem to carry the same weight as the first article did in our community. And unfortunately, there has been some real harm done in our community, especially among our new immigrant communities, um, our new Americans, and anyone that always feels as though they're on the edge or on the outside of the norm here. Um the outcome I'm sure is deeply regrettable but I think it was also avoidable and despite this there is one thing that remains clear and that it is the majority of the voice at this council table. They really do support um the positivity around this table. It's very strong. It's very steadfast. And to my colleagues here, I very much appreciate all of your outreach to us. I know I was not alone. Councelor Seikku, Mayor uh Champlain did receive comments from people as well as the people that serve on our DEIJB committee. Despite the conversation that came to us, it was more important that they heard from this council that you support the efforts and you support the efforts of every voice, every resident in the city of conquered. So, thank you very much. Uh, fall sports registration is open for conquered parks and wreck. Flag football 6 to 14 years old and fall soccer grades K through six. Your deadline is August 15th at conqueredparks.com.

Well, I'm going to wrap things up on a really positive note here, which is Wednesday, August 13th. That's this Wednesday for any of you still awake and actually hearing this. as councelor Curts referenced uh the official grand opening of the Canal Street Riverfront Park and um that's going to be at 5:30. We're going to have pizza from Chiefs, ice cream from Sweet Dreams. Uh and then you can stick around at 6:30 for the concert by up at the pavilion. I'm also going to be taking around a little collection of folks to carry around Matt Walsh on our shoulders for a couple of minutes as a great thank you for all those efforts

over the decades that it took to get this project finally finished. So, um, so anyway, I hope to see all of you there. It should be a really fun, great event. Uh, wear wear shorts and short sleeves, though. That's going to be the only other than that should be great. Thank you. Thank you, counselor. Uh, yes. Now you have something. Counselor's Todd Councelor Todd's comment uh prompted me to remember that after you enjoy the new park opening, come to the meeting about Memorial Field at 7 o'clock on Wednesday. Thank you. community where counselor Heights Community Heights Community Center. Thank you. All right. Mayor still has the last word. So,

uh and I'm going to be very brief. On tonight's uh consent calendar, there was a report that for the 13th year in a row, our city finance department has received a certificate of achieve achievement for excellence in financial reporting. This award from the government finance officers association recognizes our finance department's work on the annual comprehensive financial report for the 2024 fiscal year. Uh it's the award cites the finance department's constructive spirit of full disclosure and clearly communicating the city's financial story. So congratulations to the finance department and the deputy city manager for finance Brian Lebron for this recognition by their peers. I'd also like to announce uh the create Did you want to take a bow?

I want to I want to recognize everybody else that works in the finance department. [Applause]

I know I hear you. Uh uh I also like to announce the creation of the ad hoc committee on impact fees. Uh the members will be councilors Todd Curts and Foot as well as the chairman of the city economic development advisory committee and a designate of the greater conquered chamber of commerce. Uh the mayor will also serve as an exeicio member and councelor Todd will chair. Thank you to all those who have agreed to serve. And finally, I'd like to announce the appointment of councelor Sekuh to the parking committee. He said he didn't have enough to do. So that was my

And also finally and very last before I ask for a motion to adjourn, I would like to recognize Tobias Miner who has hung in to the very very end city council meetings. And if you need a a letter of recommendation to your scout master, you know where to find me. Uh, entertain. Let me see. Councelor Foot moves that we adjourn. Councelor Todd seconds. All those in favor? I no. Good night. Going to wait till tomorrow.