Board of Zoning Adjustment - Special Meeting

That's going to be exciting. Okay, everyone. Our last commissioner is parking right now. So, um once she comes in, we can just immediately get started because we are uh we're now streaming and recording. So, just wanted to let everyone know. Thank you. Um I we we we need quorum to actually begin the meeting unfortunately. Yeah.

square shoulder. It's more dead It's not a fair. So, Oh yeah. Shepherd across.

Yeah. I want to see.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Very good.

Let's call the meeting to order. First order of business is to announce the next meeting which will be um 8:30 a.m. on January 27th in this room. With that, could I swear in the staff, please? Do you swear and affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Say, I do. I do. Thank you very much. To have you here. Okay. Um, and then could I swear? Oh, I've sworn in the staff. Uh, the board roll call, please. Yes. Uh, Mr. Whitman here. Miss Maniac here. Mr. Pongus, here. Miss Bartley here. Mr. Lanig here.

Okay. And Miss Ritler, Mr. Lover, and Miss Brown are not present. And we have a quorum. Okay. Very good. Um would you review the um hearing format, please? So I will present the staff report and application materials and then at that time the applicant will come and sit at the presenter table here, be sworn in and be asked to present their materials. Uh we don't have any registered speakers, but uh anyone from the public can speak on the case of for up to three minutes and then commissioners will discuss the case and ask any questions if needed. Very good. Could I have a motion to approve the minutes from the last meeting, please? And a second. Second.

Thank you. Any other questions, comments, additions, deletions? Hearing none. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed. Minutes are approved. Okay, let's go on to the first um case and we have a switch here real quick. Yeah. So, we had a request to have uh the case for 96 Columbus Way go first. So, we will honor that. Could the applicants come up for a second and join us? Thank you very much. Would you identify yourselves for the record, please? Phil Dangerfield with Hasslam Sports Group. Great. Columbus Group.

And if you pull that mic up, maybe that'll make it easier to hear there a little bit. Bulbara with Columbus Sign Company. Very good. Would you raise your right hands? Do you swear and affirm the testimony you're about to give? Is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? If so, say I do. I do. Very good. Okay.

So, 96 Columbus Crew is the location of the soccer stadium off of West Nationwide Boulevard. The applicant is seeking commission approval to remove the stadium's existing lower.com field graphics and replace them with Scots Miracle Grove field channel letter LED illuminated wall signs on the stadium's north, south, and east and west facades, as well as two non-eluminated roof signs facing east and west. And submitted materials include a site plan, elevations, mounting details, and renderings. And I'll let the applicant go through their materials. Great. Um but after review the design guidelines do support illuminated graphics and state that wall signs should be proportional to the building to which they are attached and this application is consistent with those guidelines. Thank you.

Now um I'm going to let you folks show us real quick what you're talking about is when I look at this is this represent pretty much a replacement of what is and has been there? Okay. Okay. one southeast of the southeast facade sign that is over the plaza

which is really on the east wall right. Yeah. And which way are you moving it? To the south or to the center? Okay. To the south. Okay. Go ahead real quick if you would show us what you got. Yeah. Rel

Which is large events? Okay. Okay.

You want to walk us through just what we're proposing with the signs? Um, this this is the uh east facade here. Originally, it was uh more centered on the on the building. So, we we're moving it to the south to be over the entrance gate, the main gate of the stadium. Yeah. So, if if you're looking at the bottom drawing, originally the sign was a bit more to the right and then now it's uh to the left. And the large letters there, are those the ones that are I had trouble reading it. 7 foot 4 in. Is that what we've got on there? On the letters themselves, that looks like

78. Okay. All right. Okay. Pretty close to what's out there today by and large. That's right. Yeah. And the length is about the same as well. That's right. Okay. And then do I understand that the ones on the north side and the south side are smaller signs? Yeah. The three um north, west, and south are the smaller one. U the east and west also. Okay. Right. Yep. The the east one is the one that's a bit slightly larger.

Okay. Do we have questions, comments? just that with the fasteners that you're using when you re re um remove the old sign, the lower.com sign, is there any concern about patching or you feel that would be minimal and the new sign would would cover especially since you're moving the location, right? It's fairly minimal because um the fastener we use is about 38 of an inch in diameter

and the the letters they they look big but they're hollow so they're pretty light. None. I don't believe any of them any of the letters are over 100 pounds. Yeah, it's minimal. And then the facade of the building itself, they're perforated. So, yeah. So, it's just blending in. Anyway, are there other questions, comments? What's the pleasure of the group? There's there's a motion and a second. Any other questions or comments? Second.

Um, is this on the light on this? Will this be a I'm sorry, Tony, you had a question. Oh, yes. Right, Tony was second. Um, is the light adjustable? Is it Is it going to be on during the day? Does it How does that work? They they can be adjusted. Um, but I believe with the don't remember the current one is based on the u a meter that's based on what's outside. If it's once it's dark, it lights. Okay. And you would tend to do the same thing with this. Does that mean it's on all night long then or? Okay. Okay. Other questions? Anything from the audience? All those in favor say I. I.

I. Those opposed. Motion carries. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thanks very much. Next case, please.

Y. And folks, thanks for your patience today. So, we, you know, with we're trying to keep things moving as best we can and we appreciate your this here. You want to swear them in Steve and then I can read or would you identify yourselves for the record please?

Joyce Landwear with Premier. Ariana Shaw project architect with Jonathan Hagen Corda civil engineer. Would you raise your right hands? Do you swear and affirm that testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? If so, say I do. I do. I do. Thank you very much.

Okay. So, this is for 50 South Front Street, which is located just south of the corner of South Front Street and West Capitol Street and is the former location of the Double Tree Suites Hotel. The applicant is seeking commission approval for exterior building updates near and at the main entry, as well as a new canopy sign and a reface of an existing projecting sign. The building updates include a new ADA ramp, refacing of the canopy, new garage screening, new metal panels, and new lighting. And the proposed canopy sign will be 24 feet 4 in wide by 4 feet tall and consist of illuminated channel letters mounted to a raceway. Submitted application materials include site photos, a site plan, floor plan, demolition plan, reflected ceiling plans, elevations, material details, sign details, and a rendering. And I'll let the applicants re um present their materials. But after analysis, the guidelines recommend that awnings and framing systems should be compatible with building design and that darker colors are strongly encouraged. They note that contemporary designs and materials for ground flooror uses are appropriate, but should be compatible with the scale and building and place in the streetscape. And further, they state that new signage should be a logical and complimentary component of the overall design of a storefront and that it may be illuminated. Lastly, they recommend that projecting signs are preferred in the downtown and that they should be proportional to the building and this proposal is consistent with those guidelines. Thank you.

Very good. Um would you go ahead and just walk us through your um application, please?

Absolutely. So, as she indicated, we're um requesting the it's basically a renovation for the existing hotel at 50 South Front Street to the Marriott brand conversion. Um, we will be reskinning that existing canopy structure that you see over the doorway there. Um, we there's some existing rock beds that um exist underneath that canopy that we will be removing all of those and f and filling with brick pavers. Um, we will also have the ADA compliant ramp near the valet right there at the front entrance. Um, there's going to be new garage screening at the existing garage openings which you see down that wall. Um new lighting at the entry um not really a reviewable lot of but new potted plants at the entry too because there is some existing plants there. So this is the new elevation with the new showing the new signage. Um it will be the Marriott signage on top of the canopy and then there is existing um blade sign face replacements on the left. You can see the double tree that is going to the right. the Marriott.

Same size, same frame. Yes. Yep. Thank you. Mhm. And again, this is uh so there was no sign on the canopy double tree. Small one. I see. That in that gold area. Yes. So this one does obviously it's larger than the existing sign and it sets a top there. And the whole metal there's no glass on the new uh canopy then. It's just metal, right? Correct. It's all metal. Okay. So, interior lit channel letters. Is that what we're looking at? And how about the glass on the doors? Does that get replaced as well then? Right there at the entries that Oh, go ahead. Only if needed. I'm sorry. Say only if needed. Okay.

So, they're going to clean and repair the existing um So, it'll be basically what's there? Yes. Okay. And then the pavers obviously are new. Correct. And that replaces samples of the material. Sure. And that replaces um concrete sidewalks. Yes. Okay. Uh lighting fixtures. Does that show what the new ones are then? Yes. And where are the screens? Show us the screens that you're going to replace for the um uh do you have a elevation or view of that in there? Okay. Just the ones immediately next to the glass doors. The full length. Oh, the whole length along there. the wall.

Do you have a do you have a do you have a sample of that then? Al yeah on the very last page um it also will show that to us. Sure. Okay. It'll be this color panel about 4 in off the face of the facade and it will have a wave. Okay. A polka dot like it's not polka dot but it's dotted perforated as a wave. Okay. Did that was my question. So that wave will really be like a tone on tone design on on the panel. Yes, it's shown in the render. Um if we can pop back to that um not that one but the second option is the lighting that's uh underneath the canopy the down lighting that's new then as well right?

Yes. Correct. Okay. Um my take on this is this is a nice improvement. I mean, I think it wanted to be freshened and brightened and brought up to speed and um I like what you're doing here. Good. Okay. Yes. Oh, that's a better that's better to see. When we look at the rendering, the close-up that you were showing of the perforated panel and the wave design, which I think is a wonderful idea, it looks like is the intention that some of it will be um open and some closed so that the lighting on the inside will create um or accentuate the pattern more in the um evening hours.

Yes, great. By the way, I think that larger sign is is much better than that little tiny thing that was there before. Uh what's the pleasure of the group? Any or any comments, thoughts, anything from the audience? I had one more. Go ahead, please. I really like the new signage and I like everything you're doing here. The only thing, and I don't know if others would agree with me, but with the with the projecting sign, I just somehow feel that maybe if the background was not white and was a darker color almost like the night scene that you show, the night

um view of that because I feel that it to me it just seems a little bit um like conflicting with the building. Okay. And I feel because it's a more of like an urban environment, um, cosmopolitan environment, maybe something that is a little darker, might blend in better, but, you know, still be able to give you that, um, identification that you need. So, that's just I don't know. That's just my feeling about it where it just seems to not work well with with the building, conflict with the building. the um that bracket on there is to my taste is not great either there that holds that sign up. I don't

know if you want to Yeah, I he did note in his sign package that the night view is the black. So during the daytime it's the light or the white and then at the night time it does show up as the black back. So it actually be more visible that way perception of it. So the black letters, the black word that says Marriott has the ability to turn white at night from um from the sign package that um that he's proposed. It's yeah, it will turn the M will still remain the red, but then the the letters will be white at night. Magic.

I don't know if it's changed your note or your opinion or if you want us to just look at the dark all the way around. Yeah, I just something to consider. I just feel like when I look at that, I just feel like it um could have maybe a little more of an elegance to it or work better with the building. And that's just like I don't know if that blade if that projection sign and that color palette with that background is the prototype and that's used everywhere for the Marriott or in different cities and different locations. if there's some flexibility to work well with the building. We'll certainly take note of that and take that back to the brand and see what options that they might have. Absolutely.

I would be fine with those gold brackets going away. It feels like that's a remnant of the old Double Tree branding, right? Not going to hold you up, but I agree with Steve. It's not great. Okay. It it'd be more attractive. My only question about the the black would be if it I if it's more readable with the white during the day light hours frankly. So I don't know you folks can look at that. Um what do we want to do here? Is there a

Well, I did have one other question with your pavers. It looks like when you have the you know just the sample picture of them photo it's a herring bone pattern but on the um plan it is a um running like a running bond. So, are you using herring bone or the running bond for the for the pavement? The main entry in the brown red will be the herring bone and then the running bond will be in the gray. And where does the running bond go then in the where does the gray go? It kind of goes in the middle. Adjacent to the red. Yes. So, okay.

See that this piece has to be replaced because of damage. And there's also a existing red concrete kind of running this repair that with the uh with the gray and then only your main entry into the building will be the red. Okay, we get that one. Okay, any other questions? Janna, anything else to ask? What was what was the conversation about ADA compliance? You kind of have that ramp. You kind of come in off the valet and then it goes up each side. There's it ramps up. But I'm imagining a car being parked there and then it's blocking it and then there is no 88 accessibility.

So currently there's a 5 in curb um which doesn't allow any um accessibility um using that valet uh parking. So, the thought was if you pull up far enough, at least you're able to get out of your vehicle and um use the now flat zone kind of center those elevators to roll out on and then you can pick your direction either way. Yeah, it just seems like an odd layout to me. So, where So, where is the is there just a uh just that section there in the middle? Yep. Which is the uh success kind of where the building juts out and then it's sort of a pinch point. It's kind of a weird spot to put it. Yeah.

Kind of center the existing elevators. So that whole section there which is 17 feet long. Yes. You know, one thing you could do here is drop the entire curb. Yeah. Um so you have a flush curb condition for as much of that valet drop as possible. Okay. So you're not necessarily worried about where a car pulls up or who's blocking who. Mhm. Like be pretty typical in a hotel auto court and you know there may be some grading concerns but if you got it to work at the pinch point exactly it seems like it might be able to work elsewhere.

I I think that might be a good solution for you folks. I don't think it would interfere with anything you're thinking about or trying to do. Is or would it? Yeah. Columbus has three kind of locations. Um on the pull-off lanes, they have the center drop ramp and then two at the diagonal locations um you know at the front of the uh pull-off lane or at the rear. So we we could you could only do it in those areas. That's that's following the Yeah. For the city of So literally you could not do the whole thing at as a handicap curve. That is not why I wonder why that would be. Did you ask? Uh, we can definitely bring that into conversation if that would be something they would consider for the rightway scope.

I'll be That's interesting. Yeah, they do it. Yeah, I I think we've done that a hundred times, not a thousand, right? It it's it's a better customer situation. That's the point. We're not trying to redesign it for you. It's just better for your customer, right? Yep. Yeah. Um, okay. Well, where let's figure out where we are and move this along. What do we want to do? Talk about it more. Anybody ready to make a a motion? One really quick. Okay, go ahead.

You have the wood um the wood look panels. And then at the on either side of the entry, you have that same material but in a I think you called it an aloover format, like an aloover design. And I didn't see a um a photo of that or anything. Can you just quickly describe what that would be? It's the same color, but this is just Is that for aesthetics or is there any function for There's no function. It's strictly for aesthetics. Um it will be in the mocha oak. Um it will match the sophet. So the thought is that it will it will walk down the window. Okay.

And it it's just to help again Marriott really wanted our front door to you know give direction. And so it's another way to help people focus on that's our front door. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay. Other questions? Any thoughts? Anything else? Comments? Okay. What's the pleasure of the group, please? Let's suppose somebody could do a motion. Why don't we

two things that we were asking them to consider? Right. Correct me if I'm wrong. One is uh a better situation for ADA accessibility at the auto court. And two was to consider the white versus black sign and the blade above the primary sign. I think that's what we've asked them to do. Right. Or a darker colored. Sure. Yeah. So I I'm happy with them considering it. I I would approve it like this. We would not make it a requirement then suggestions for my perspective. Okay. Can we And then is that a motion then? That's a motion. Okay. You'd like that motion, Belus? Yeah, that's great. Okay. And is there a second for that motion? I'll second.

Okay, the motion is on the floor now. Other questions or comments? Anything from the audience? Um, we ready to go. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed. Uh, motion carries. Okay. So, you understand where we are. We're we're it's approved with and you're going to see what you can do with the city on broadening that um handicapped um section of the curbing there and then um that sign you're going to take another look at and come up with what the best solution is among which uh among that and along with that look maybe considering that bracket they're um being gone away being replaced. Thanks so much.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Okay.

All right. So, the next application is for 33 South 4th Street, the mixeduse tower. Good morning. Could you identify yourselves for the record, please?

Josh Thomas, Cart Architect. Tom Morano, the Edwards Companies. Okay. Would you raise your right hands? Do you swear and affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? If so, say I do. I do. Thank you very much, Belus.

Great. So, this is for 33 South Fourth Street, which consists of six parcels with a surface parking lot located at the southwest corner of South Fourth Street and East Capitol Street. The applicant is seeking commission approval to construct a 12story mixeduse building, including 225 structured parking spaces, firstf flooror commercial space, and a mix of 218 studio, one-bedroom, and two-bedroom apartment units. The building will also include a dog park, a thirdstory landscape courtyard, and rooftop amenity spaces. Exterior materials include brick, metal panels, stucco, limestone cladding, copper standing steam metal siding, custom wall sconces, and green roof awnings. The applicant was last before the commission for a conceptual review of the project in August of 2025. Commissioners were generally supportive of the proposal and recommended more articulation of the middle base of the eastern facade. Consideration of how the elevated walkway connects to the building as well as how the mansered roof turns the corner. In response to commission feedback, the applicant included a north elevation showing the connection to the elevated walkway and updated renderings to show the middle base of the eastern facade. and submitted materials include a site plan, floor plans, elevations, sections, material details, renderings, and landscape plans. And I'll let the applicant present their materials. The downtown design guidelines recommend that commercial ground floor uses, highquality, durable materials, lighting that minimizes light spill, transparent clear storefronts, landscaping, and rooftop structures that compliment that are complimentary to the building. The guidelines note that structured parking is preferred, but that the exterior design should minimize the monotony of its underlying structure system through wall mass and window openings and variation in color, material or texture. And the application is consistent with the downtown design guidelines as noted

in the basis table below. Thank you. Great. Okay. Well, as you well know, you have been here before and we've talked about this project. Um, so let's just go ahead and jump into it. I think maybe a good place to start is a couple of the tweaks that I think you put together in response to our um last discussion.

Yes. Uh so as thank you for the introduction Belus the middle base that we have there in the black masonry we that is provides about a 12 to 14 inch setback uh from the limestone towers that we have on third street uh providing some of that difference in depth that was requested in the last meeting. Uh we also we did study the the Mansard roof um returning back I have an image here from a previous uh iteration uh through the design. Um can we see that that you have something that shows us the mansard? It's not a part of the presentation. We have it as a just a supplemental exhibit if we can offer that to the group.

And so what what did you do then? I can't remember what we wanted you to do and what you did. So what? Oh, it turns the corner. There is a sort of a paraphed condition at the side. Yeah. Yeah. And the the group asked that we study and we actually previously studied even before we arrived at that kind of turning that banter like it would be like this that Yeah. and decided that doesn't work. few versions of that and internally we like ownership we prefer what's on the screen rather than turning the manser back. Um I think it makes the unit better on that top floor. It's a twotory sort of penthouse unit. Yeah.

And I think what we show on the screen is actually a it's a better solution for the unit, but it's also kind of what we prefer aesthetically. Okay. I Oh, I'm sorry. No, that's that's it.

Okay. I had a question. When I look at this drawing though underneath, it looks like the configuration of the windows and the balconies are slightly different, but this is what you're proposing what you have here. And I had a comment about that. I It looks like where that window is and the balcony is set in the corner. And even on your rendering, it looks like there might be heavy shadowing in there. I was wondering if you had thought about um yeah, like where those windows are and that balcony either extending the balcony out a little bit beyond the window to the um east or maybe slightly shifting the window so it's a little bit maybe not centered in that wall but you know maybe not right against that

so it's not so much in the corner is yeah I think that like I can totally understand why you like this detail better where the mansard isn't turning back But I do think that the window so far away does make, you know, does create, you know, like a starkness there. And maybe if that's slightly moved to the east and maybe even even even if you don't want to move the window because of functional issues, the balcony can be maybe extended out a little bit. So maybe just two ways to look at that. Okay.

Uh could you walk through for just a second with the materials? I know you gave us a very good um on on the on the um facades. I know you gave us a very detailed set of drawings here. Some of it was a little hard for me to read. So the entire front of the the part that sticks out on either end here, that's limestone. Is that correct? Does it go all the way up to the mansard roof then? Okay. And then the section in the middle here that's set back, that's the black brick. Is that correct? That is correct.

Okay. And then on that wall that uh Jenna was talking about where you have the windows there where it's is that looks like brick. It's brick intended to match the color of limestone. Ah, okay. And then when you go back from there, the sections in the back are stucco, right? Okay. And then on the sides, what are the sides of the buildings? And on the north side and the There we go. On the south side, uh M it's brick to match the limestone uh brick 40t back and then it transitions to stucco where our stair towers occur. Okay. Show me where that would show up on that elevation then roughly

where if you see where the building steps up, it we move back from the mansard roof and the building steps up. No. Yeah. Okay. Approximately at that line is where the transition there. And so forward from there towards the street is brick and then back from there back is stucco. And is the west side of the building also stucco then? Yes. Okay. And you would have the same kind of material detail on the north side I assume. Yes. Okay. Similar treatment. Um and the uh green roofs on the uh on the top are those the copper standing metal seam? Yes. Natural copper. Okay. Wow. Natural copper. Yes. Nice. That's good.

Okay. Um, do you have pictures of your uh lamps then? You said you have custom made. There we go. And those are what you're proposing. Then this is a the best representation we can offer for a custom lamp that we're looking to provide for the project. Okay. And and scaled to match on the building and and through that uh product data. And the windows are black metal frame in the front. Uh dark bronze metal frame. Bronze on the storefront. Actually the this is the window we intend to use this on the units. This would be the color. This color black. Yeah. But along the where you have the inset there in the big uh commercial uh first floor spaces.

Yes. The floor that's curtain um storefront. Okay. Yeah. With some dark product. And then that's black metal there. And the space inside the spaces there where the Yes. Okay. Where you are returning, you know, you have your limestone cladding on the two towers and then you have the black brick um center portion recessed a bit. I think you said 12 in or 14 inch. 14 inches. Yes. Right. And does that re right where the cursor is right there. Is that um as you re is that returned? Is the limestone cladding returned to the black brick or is that stopped and then you have the other lighter brick? No, the limestone will meet the black

will meet the black brick. Yes. For the first two levels side you can see the limestone turn back about Yeah. Okay. I think that's a good detail. Um thank you. Well, gorgeous. Any other questions or comments? Do you have an elevation of the back of the building? Uh there is a I think there was two dimensional elevation um top does the do the um bottom left are are these retail spaces is that the idea on the first floor commercial of some sort? Um there's our leasing our leasing office is on the corner the north northeast corner and then retail spaces.

Okay. So are those um and then is that a twotory space? What how high is that on the first floor there? Single story. It's it varies. It's a story to store. So when you look at it, you see it looks like two floors from the And it is two floors. Yes. Okay. And both of which are commercial retail. Okay. And then above that is the apartments then, right? Correct. Okay. And then in the middle section where you have the garden over it, that is all commercial in there then, right? All retail. Yes. Okay. And does that go all the way to the back of the building then? No, it go it backs up to the garage because the garage is internal. Gotcha. Okay. Other questions or comments?

I have a um just a question and some comments about well mainly questions about the residential entry. So, last time we met, you were, you know, you were explaining that the residential entry is mainly going to be from the the east, the east facade of the north, all the way to the right,

right? And um and then you also have like a north entry as well. And when I look at the floor plan, it looks like the north entry is a little bit more direct into the lobby and the east one seems to go through the leasing office. So, I'm just wondering um which you see as the primary residential entry, how you see people using these two entries, and if you have any concerns about like how that works going through the leasing office, how you know, do you walk in and there's a lobby and then there's a leasing office a little bit off. I'm I'm a little I'm not really quite sure how you see that all being utilized. And if the north entry is something that you see being utilized quite a bit, I think maybe it would be worth studying, how do you enhance that? you know, maybe with one of your beautiful custom um chandelier sconces that you're, you know, that you're producing or something else or maybe returning limestone back on, you know, on that wall for a couple of floors, something so that that north entry doesn't really look like back of house, but is also a prominent entry, too, if that's going to be used a lot. And it seems like it's a direct entry into your um into your residential lobby. Um, so I guess to answer your question, if you're at the street level, your primary entry is through the leasing center on the east. And that's typically what we do. We we normally have a couple offices sort of secluded to the side that are our leasing agents. We always do our mail and packages because they control um, you know, deliveries for people, large boxes, etc. So most people come and go through the leasing office and they pick up their mail, jump in the elevators and go up.

So if you're on the ground level, you're definitely going in through the east. The north entry is primarily off of the elevated walkway that we just remodeled. You know, the that black walkway that's behind the PNC building. So that will link you into the second floor. Um, so I assume if you're if you're parking in one of the garages like the Capitol Plaza garage and you come across the walkway, you can dart in the building that way. Okay. So you don't see that first floor entry in the north as really a primary entry. You're seeing most people are coming through that. Well, what if the leasing office is closed? I mean, do they Everybody can fob in the building. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Well, thank you. Yeah, the leasing is really just like they're almost like private offices within that common ground, that uh first floor area. Can you walk us through this walkway connection then too for a second if you would? You go to level three. The walkway connection is uh we see there we come in uh near the elevator one. There's a stair connection that comes up to third pro landing. There's also a direct connection to the elevator uh for accessibility to get us up to that third floor of the third of the apartment building. Um so as Tom was saying, you can connect from the other apartment or parking structures and get your access to the building as a tenant here.

Is that on the same level as it looked like it was it's approximately a six foot variation from So how do you is it a ramp then? Uh it's a stair to it's a stair up from the elevated walk. Yeah. And then the elevator has a direct access point. So you walk up Oh, you walk up into the entry to the building. Correct. Yes. As opposed to walking up from the building into the Right. Gotcha. Correct. Okay.

And so that that elevated walkway sort of links all of our properties downtown. It gets you to 195 East Broad Street. We're improving the Capitol Plaza garage. We're securing that and putting rolling gates to secure that garage so some of our residents can park there. And then it links to the PNC building which is now Preston Center and then it will now take you all the way to Third Street where it's going to come down to grade in front of the Galleria building. Right. Okay. Um, other questions, comments?

What do we think about this man roof thing? From my standpoint, it's okay. In fact, it I can see why maybe in a way it's almost better because it makes makes the mansard in front of the building wider as opposed to having to kind of condense it a little bit to get it to squeeze around the corner there. And I think you know if you think about buildings I mean I don't you know wherever you are let's say Paris is the classic mansard roof place um you know they would build these buildings up against each other so you'd really have kind of a parapit wall so that in a way the mansard would go from parapit wall to parapit wall. So

that and they were kind of sort of bunched up against each other. So I I I personally did not have a problem with it. In fact, might almost like it better this way. I That's my feeling, too. You know, at first when the when the comment was suggested last time, I thought that's a great idea to turn it. I thought that was a wonderful idea. But when I was reviewing this last weekend, I was looking at it and I thought, you know, there's an authenticity to it because that's really how you would see this in like I haven't been to Paris, but I've seen photos, but certainly in New York City when you see those um Boseart buildings, that's really how it would look. And so it has to me more of a like an urban authenticity to it.

Um instead of maybe how you would see this maybe how you might see in Disneyland how they would turn it. But you so I that's just my feeling too. Okay. But you know I I'm open to like hear what you would think. No that that turned me that comment. At first I kind of thought the same thing. It's like it feels like it's like old west. you know, it's the facade and then he doesn't turn back. But you within the context of history and certainly, you know, um, you know, the value that we bring to the table related to Paris and how it would actually be, um, kind of back to where you guys are at,

authenticity was something we were really considering as we were evaluating the the two options and how

I think what's so interesting about this project is that you have different elements. you know, it it's not all the same. It's very eclectic, but every element that you're using is executed so well so that it is different, but it just is also cohesive in that quality and in the choices you're making. So, you know, if you look at that center portion where the cursor was, that, you know, has a different feel to it, but it's very well done. And then, you know, your industrial windows and then, you know, just the just the different elements. And then the black portion in the center too. Very simple but but elegant.

Are these are always big projects and you try to break down smaller components that are you know more humanly scaled and relatable and then um we always think of you know these buildings as evolving over time. Those two limestone pieces were probably there a long time and then somebody piece at some point. So, we generally try to do that with our buildings, make them feel like they've evolved even though they're all new. Um, now tell us a little bit about this um third floor garden area there in the middle. That's just it looks like it's just for looking at and walking through perhaps. Is that correct? It's Yeah, it's resident only. Um,

but I mean there's no pool there. There's no um It's just walking past bar. No tiki bar. The activation is purely through benches and some uh areas to sit. Uh more of a passive relief. Um the amenities that occur at the 12th floor of this building that include the pool, the clubhouse, grilling grilling areas. Okay. I noticed you have ballards and you have tree up lights, but you don't have down lights in that space. Do you feel there'll be enough light with the with the two lights um without any down lighting?

I think so. And we a lot of times we try to keep those spaces dimmer just because you have so many apartments and the light bleed in the windows and things like that. So generally we kind of try to keep it a little bit darker. But what is the lighting on the building other than the big um brass lanterns out in front? Then we don't have substantial exterior lighting on those accent pieces. Okay. So if you ever want to do other lighting or um um signage or something, you can come back and see us then. We'll do that for sure. We haven't We haven't even named the building, so we'll be back with some signage. Okay, good. Any other questions or comments, folks? Thoughts?

Move to approve. There's a motion to approve. Is there a second? Second. Okay, there's a second. Again, any questions, comments, thoughts? Anything from the audience? All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed? Thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah. Have a good one.

And all the windows I assume are going to be these Pella other than the storefront sections. Okay. If you want your samples there, you can. Thank you. Okay. Belus, we'll let you Okay.

Roll with the next. Uh so this is our last application on the agenda. This is for 410 South High Street, which is located at the block bounded by East Mound Street to the north, South High Street to the west, East Fulton Street to the south, and the Franklin County parking garage to the east. The site currently holds the former Dorian Commons Park, which opened in 1976, and a municipal building built in 1955. The applicant is seeking commission approval to demolish both the former park site and the James A. K's Municipal Building and construct a new eightstory city of Columbus Municipal Court Building. Included in the design is a pedestrian bridge over South High Street to connect the court building directly to the city attorney offices within the 375 South High Street building. The applica the applicant will salvage historical items on the site and will be replacing the mature trees as well. Proposed materials include aluminum curtain walls, metal panels, and pre-cast concrete panels. And the applicant was last before the commission for a conceptual review in the September 2025 where they were recommended to fortify the streetscape along High Street as it appeared minimalistic. Re-evaluate the location of the programming along it which included the ADA drop off bus stop and covered bike parking. Consider how the ADA ramp interacts with the entry doors. lighten the pedestrian bridge and study the proportions and relationship from floors one and two to floor three with the setback of the podium. In response to commission feedback, the applicant moved the connector bridge north, relocated the covered bike parking to Mound Street, proposed a relocation of the existing bus stop further north along High Street, adjusted the parking and circulation along the east alleyway, and included an enlarged site plan showing how the ADA ramp ties into the entry doors. Submitted materials include existing site context photos, demolition plan, historical inventory, tree

replacement plan, site strategy drawings, site plans, floor plans, building sections, elevations, material details, sections, renderings, and landscape information. And I'll let the applicant present their uh submittal package. And after analysis, the downtown design guidelines state that the downtown district code requires a certificate of appropriateness for demolitions and that a replacement use or plan be approved by the downtown commissions. The down the guidelines note that maximizing the investment potential of a given site is encouraged, but so is preservation of existing building stock. The guidelines encourage the commissioners to consider if demolition would allow for new development in which their opinion is of greater significance to the character of the surrounding area. For new construction, the guidelines recommend commercial ground floor uses, highquality, durable materials, lighting that minimizes light spill, transparent clear storefronts, and complimentary landscaping. They also note that skywalks are generally not supported because street level pedestrian activity is critical to the downtown's quality of life and energy. However, in cases where a skywalk is supported, its design and color should be such that it is muted sides at least 50% transparent and is overall and its overall presence subdued to not draw attention to itself. The application is generally consistent with the downtown design guidelines as noted in the basis table below. and staff notes that the the Department of Public Service maintains authority over access to the right of way and that being for that skybridge portion. Thank you. Okay, very good. Um would you identify yourselves for the record, please? No. Could you Is that on turned on or

check if that's on? Tap that mic a second there. On there. A little better. Yeah, go ahead. Mark, Chris Ler, landscape architect at Edge. Uh, could you raise your right hands? Do you swear and affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? If so, say I do. I do. Thank you very much. Okay. Walk us through it and maybe um we have seen this. Um why don't you start with some of the um adjustments you've made here for us if you would please.

We'll do. I think what we'll do then is um why don't we spin through it? We'll spend a little bit more time with the site plan since those have more developed drawings for you. Um, so just, you know, for the record here, this project is off of High Street between Mound and Fulton, really at this kind of gateway moment at the south end of downtown on I771 there. Uh, directly adjacent to the existing Franklin County Government Center, the Common Please Courthouse. And this um, you know, really this area we've we've called Justice Square here. Um I think what's what's really developed the massing is quite similar to what we talked about last time. Essentially a podium tower configuration um that works really hard to um bring the scale of the building down at the pedestrian zone there and really tie in contextually to some of the existing um historical commercial building stock there as well as the scale of the entry pavilions of both the uh government center and the common police courthouse. And then the site here, there were some questions particularly around the the streetscapes when we came for conceptual con uh conceptual review, excuse me. Um and so with that, I'm going to let Chris walk through these and just some of the adjustments we've made, um why we've made them and then just some of the um kind of, you know, tug and pull that has to happen between all the pieces on site that are required jurisdictionally.

Sure. Thanks, Mark. Um, so you'll see along High Street, one of the um, comments that we received was that uh, they were it wasn't as lush as the other streetscapes were appearing. So, we made an effort to enlarge the um, tree planters along that. Um, you'll see that Kota has requested an additional bus stop. So we have um accommodated that but uh we had to resize the streetscapes planters to um kind of make that more minimalistic and give the trees a lot more soil volume to um you know for the health of the trees. Um for see Fulton um we are responding to the uh the ODOT plans. So you'll see there's now on street parking um as well as trees and tree grates rather than planters. Um and that's just to be consistent and with the with that existing ODOT plan and not not too many changes along mound. However, we did relocate the bike shelter and um put the flag poles out into the planters to have a consistent um planter experience there. But also know that the the flag poles if they were placed in within our property line, uh the flags would be hitting the building, likely damaging them.

I think that's the big site plan changes.

Yeah, I think two things I'd maybe note on there and the flag pole piece, that's something that's being negotiated, right, with the with the city and that there's a precedent for that at the common police. That's what's been done. And so, um hopeful that that that will uh you'll go through and be taken into account. And I think the other thing we talked about last time maybe worth hitting on is on High Street in the south end of the block by the um the pedestrian bridge, the ADA pulloff there. And you know why that's located there in large part is those those KOD bus stations are to some degree non-negotiable. They are where they are. And so as Chris noted, we've negotiated those planters and those planter beds around them and made them as fulsome as we can within the the requirements of that zone. And then additionally, because of where the bus pull in, um you really need a certain amount of pullout space for those stalls to negotiate around a bus if it were stopped there. And so that really starts to set a work point of where those ADA stalls have to be in that pullout zone. Um so to to some degree there's there's minimal flexibility to fit in all of the um you know the requirements that are um you are there for the project along this rightway.

Um I've got a little question about um and it relates to the um kind of what's across the street from these. Are these um the planters are are they similar? Do they relate to what's on the west side of the street and um caddy corner in front of the courthouse and along um the west side of Mound Street there?

Yeah, that's a great question. Um the the short answer is yes and no. I think um the there is no standard streetscape along High Street in particular. um with the the age of the buildings at the um Franklin County Government Center, there's essentially um raised planters that act as kind of ballards and a security perimeter out along the right of way and and essentially at the curb line. Um there's probably I think three I'm doing this from memory, three or four different planters that serve that function as you go south along High Street here. Um but there really are no consistent street trees here. So, there's one or two in front of the the last tower here, the limestone one that are um hanging in there to be honest, struggling a little bit. Um and then north on the block there, there are no, you know, there's I think one at the end right before we get to the plaza. So, uh no real consistent cadence, I think, in part just because they went in over, you know, you know, over a long period of time. And and when I see your drawing, it it strikes me that, you know, there would be something nice if if we could kind of have it match, you know, if we're talking about something like a place.

Yep. Okay. We're doing this intersection. Let's call it courthouse square, whatever you whatever we're calling it. Um but if if the southeast corner related to the northwest corner and the Yep. and the southwest corner and all this kind of thing and the street even if we had to go back and kind of modify some of them a little bit to come up with something. Now, see, we're going to be we're going to be talking about we are in the process of talking about uh the across the street.

Exactly. On the um where the jail goes away in that section. So, I mean, we have an opportunity to maybe match and maybe we come in. Maybe you can't do the entire strip of the west side of uh High Street between Mound and Fulton, but maybe we could do something somewhere that would kind of match what's on the other side. I mean, that would be a to me that would be a nice thing. And you begin to again create this space maybe. Otherwise, it looks like three separate, four separate, five separate buildings that were done. one here, one there, and so on with no connection.

I do believe that um with that early learning center project that's going on, again, different team, but from the SD package that we were able to see was along Mound Street at least, were consistent. High street, I'm not sure how much of that is being touched. However, I believe Kota is asking for bus shelters there as well, so that might impact that. Um, but I can't speak to that. I think two things in the spirit of of your point that we are doing that um you know within the realm of what we control I think is perhaps beneficial to to the city and to the you know just kind of the urban experience is um I'll start at the southside. So ODOT's doing a lot of work associated with the two lids at Front Street and then here at High Street. Um the Front Street one I think is near finishing up and then the High Street one we're we're starting up here. um the the pallet that kind of brick corner um all of the crossings and then all of the streetscape along Fulton on the south end is essentially consistent across those two blocks and that's part of that um ODOT project and so there is um parity and consistency at the southwest corner of our site and the southeast corner of the government center. I think similarly on the north side of our project at the northwest corner um the three corners that have those judicial facilities associated with them. So our northwest corner the lower left on the page and then the two across the street on the west side of high street both have a um a similar not just planting um plan or kind of intent but also the hardscape. So that paving at the corner, um that alternating striping, bringing those pavers, that that more kind of textural, you know, kind of handcrafted um scale and and just finish quality is all consistent across the three corners that are part of the judicial um facilities here in in Columbus. The norththeast corner, I'm sorry, north, you want to get that right. the northeast corner of the

commercial uh buildings there, those brick buildings. Um the red brick of the intersection is what is at the the kind of pedestrian right ofway there. So it's not that dark gray pa and part of that is um you know that's controlled by those owners and and hopefully someday down the road we could we could find a way to make parody there. So you had four corners that kind of completed the thought of that judicial square.

Yeah. I think that the last thing I'd note is um by by trying to make those planners as big as possible and that's something we're working through with the city that is not city standard right so those are bigger and and we're negotiating that I think one of the intentions behind the city standard is to ensure that there is space for pedestrians to get out of cars right and into the right of way so there's ample space to move through that planted zone I think in this instance because we do not have that zone right this is a a bus stop that is accounted for and then the ADA pulloffs which are accounted for. Um we actually see that there's some benefit to the city there by those being more lush because it actually prevents people from jaywalking across this um this busy part of High Street. And you know if anybody spend any time down there you see it right? people are on the other side of the street and they run across as fast as they can because the bus is coming and it actually eliminates

cars along the street. Exactly. Get in and and so having having a little bit more buffer to prevent that and keep people within the kind of pedestrian portion of that right away we think has some real benefit. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, those that would be a comment from me. On that same thread, can you talk a little bit about the vertical um walls, stairs details that are in the landscape? Um just thinking about tying these details together and um just thinking a little bit about what that pedestrian environment looks like.

Sure. And and this is kind of a a departure from what is seen at the government center is that we take the steps that would usually you know it varies anywhere um from six to eight stairs. and instead of pushing them all together to make kind of like a barrier, we spread them out into twostep increments to make it feel more inviting. Um so that's why you see that that change there. Um in terms of the wall, you we have one wall along um High Street that is accepting the ADA route up. Yep. Right there. And um in doing some grading studies, we I think we note on there that it is or maybe we don't, but it was 4.9%. we were able to get that down to 1.9 um just with some um looking at some creative grading in there. Um so that that'll actually just feel like uh a route instead of a ramp. Um and then in terms of the there is a wall that we show along Mound Street heading back towards um Pearl Alley. Um so that's uh it's kind of two-part. One, it's for building protection. Um but two it's also to give some kind of soil volume to these trees as they um as they head towards the east while also trying to hide this egress route so that it's not seen as an entry to the building rather just a you know an egress for level zero. Do

you have any details to show that stub? I don't believe there's details in this in this package, but you might have one in the rendering. Probably can pick that up in our I I heard a comment about replacing um mature trees. Where does that occur here?

Yeah, so within the first maybe five or six pages of the uh the set here, the submission is all of our uh demolition information. And so the existing um Dorian Commons Park there and then the um Karen's building are both scheduled to be um fully demolished. That's that's the intention. Um there are substantial trees there. We've got the whole removal schedule and all of the impacts associated with that. And what we've tried to do is as hard as possible is to get as many trees as we can either on our property or thiscape in these planters. The the trees themselves.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so most of that as we've gone through is at the the right of ways to the degree possible and then at this north end where we've we've got about 12 I think it's 12 15 feet left of um of open you know open air um area there on our parcel. Um we've planted to the the max degree possible to to continue that kind of green buffer and that logic of the um and you'll see it if you go back three images maybe from here if you pause there. What would that mean to you? Um, a mature tree, a mature, what will those end up being? Is is it

No. Are you going to So, what are you going to plant? That would be a Are you actually going to plant a mature tree? Is that the idea? The question is what is the number that we we intend to plant? Height, size, tree. Right now, it's 4 inch. And um along uh High Street, it's Sycamore. Um I believe we have some uh elms along Fulton and then Mound. I think I would have to look. I think it's Silova. Um and then within the area along the building facade, I'd also have to look at that, but I think it's probably some shade tree. That's likely. Yeah. But you're you're really not going to you're not going to replace mature trees then obviously. Yeah. Yeah. No, not I don't know why you say it's really possible.

No, I would. Yes. If I if I intended or if I implied that I apologize. I thought I heard that. Maybe I did not. Okay. All right. Um, other questions, comments? I had Can you go back to the I think it was the enlarged um ADA ramp plaza plan and I had a question about this. There you go. I'm wondering go back one if you could. There you go.

Right. I'm wondering, do you have any concerns about, you know, as somebody, let's say, that's in a wheelchair is coming up the ramp and then they're going into the main entry and then maybe other people are coming out. Do you feel that that is sort of a tight um situation there and that that I guess that retaining wall that's where the stairs start be pulled back a little bit like go north slightly? I know you um I'm just wondering how you feel about that because you'll have people come. Yeah, it's a good question. And maybe there's some room to take a little bit out but still return those monumental stairs.

Yeah. And so so what what I would answer there is um maybe pausing for a second, this is a pretty big kind of porch space, I'll call it. And so, you know, maybe not truly identif identifiable on the plan here, but just to give you context, the the area, and we can go to the renderings here to reinforce it in a moment. Um, where that red asterct is there, that face of the building there is 50 ft long. Okay? Just just for kind of scale. So, this this covered area that essentially serves as a pre-Quing space for the building itself. Um, get people out of the weather before they enter. Kind of get your you know, get your keys when you're leaving, right? get yourself set for all of the uh the kind of formal proceedings you're about to participate in. Um it's a it's a relatively um large volume of covered space. And so the space you're speaking to on the site there when you get at the top of the ramp between the the building face and that um that small retaining wall,

that's that's about 12 feet. And so that's um you know essentially more space than me me to you, right? So there there is ample space there to maneuver. Um and then additionally um the intention is you know one door the the revolving doors will be used day-to-day right by most people that's the intention that's how the everything will be signed and that's how the the internal systems will be set up the the man doors will be used obviously with push buttons for people with uh mobility challenges and one will be in and one will be out so you won't have direct crossover at at any one of those particular doors with kind of a you know an issue at the door itself with let's say two wheelchairs is trying to trying to gain access coming and going.

So I I do think there's ample room there to to maneuver. Okay, that's great. And then now that we also have this photo here, my photo rendering here as well. Um and this is just something that I'm not really sure about myself, but I'm just, you know, thinking about it. you from the um government building on the other side of the street on the um west side of the street. You're going to have a very important view looking at that west at that west wall, you know, the one that the solid wall where you have the um emblem

and the seal. And I'm just wondering if that needs to be studied a little more. Like I'm not saying that it may maybe it needs more transparency, but if it doesn't, maybe something with those panels, something about that wall where in addition to the seal, you know, makes it unique. Yeah. And I mean, I don't I mean, it's an elegant building and, you know, you don't want to add too many new elements, but I think that that might be worth studying because it is a very important focal point. Yeah. Yeah. And you you're going to have many people looking at that building and seeing that, you know, head on and where that's located.

Yeah, it's a it's a a great point. What I will say in uh perhaps in defense of what's on the paper is maybe a couple thoughts. One, um what you know, part of that is to set up uh well, one is the the program behind that needs a little bit more privacy. So the the kind of two floors there um of public facing program you know we felt it was important and not have you know kind of a direct visual access from that that plaza or that kind of porch space. Um the second piece there was you know we felt it was an appropriate space with a little bit more opacity there to um put the seal and you know we will study that and come back for um you know a signage uh part of this conversation in the future. Um, but ensuring that that had a proper home and it was clearly understood that this is a public facility and part of our our courts program here in town. And then I think the third piece of that was by having that be more opaque and then the transparency of the lobby volume itself, it gave us an opportunity to create a bit more juxtaposition there and really highlight um some of the more um public facing program within that lobby and some of the art elements we're looking to bring forward there. So, it became less about the focal point of the wall and more about the focal point of some of the program that's drawing the public into that that internal atrium space.

Okay. Okay. Anything else we need to look at with you then? You we've I think we've been discussing largely the um site plan. Yep. Did you have any other items you wanted to discuss? Are these the pavers? Uh the these are the pre-cast samples and the the pavers will be very sim similar. We don't have the actual sight pavers with us today and one of is is acid etched in the other plane is a light sand blast. Yeah. Okay.

So the intention there is um the you know it's a it's a pretty large building right? You know 300,000 plus square feet. Um I think 160 or 162 feet if I'm doing that from memory. Um the smallest panel on the building is about 4 by 15t. Right. So, you know, just for context, maybe another 30% bigger than one of the windows behind you. And so, we felt it was important to have a little bit of texture there so that the building has, you know, doesn't kind of turn plastic and just feel like nothing, so to speak. And I know we talked when we were here previously, um, you know, about looking at alternate materials. We did do a pretty robust, uh, budget analysis of stone. Um, it just wasn't wasn't realistic. Um, and so we are working hard to get as much um, you know, kind of leverage out of the the pre-cast architectural pre-cast um, concrete as possible. And so adding additional, you know, a little bit of additional finish there and a little bit of additional detailing to help it um, you know, come to life and not feel flat.

From a security perspective, I kind of trust between that ballard and that ballard. You you cannot I think the the rendering is missing a couple ballards as we've negotiated with the um the city. Those ballards that are shown in the in the right of way there are ending up back on our property line. So those steps will have ballards directly in front of them on both sides. Yeah. Is that right? That is true. And the um can you you want to just walk us through if you got samples here real quick on some of these materials?

So the the pre-cast The pre-cast is noted. This is the the panels. So essentially the infill, everything that's vertical on the building has a little bit more texture. And then just to get a little bit of separation, the horizontal, so the banding on the building is more of the the light etch um which become looks a little bit more kind of ston-like, a little bit more um limestone, a little flatter. And then these are um kind of a mix almost between a gray and a buff concrete. Very similar in coloration to what's on the common please building out there. And and that is the color you're planning on using. That is that is the intention. Yeah.

And then the um

the metal. So the the framing is kind of a you know a medium slightly warm um tone. I don't call that I'll call it gray. We can call it we can debate it color theory all day. and then the um the entry there, the um sophet material. And so what we've looked at doing again because the building's so big and we really want to humanize this entry experience and really bring it down to the scale of the individuals uh entering, we've looked at um kind of a tile, a shingle scale material on that sit, but doing it in um kind of a flatter color there. So we don't have um quite the degree of of variegation as shown there. Um but something that just has a little bit of texture and a little bit of bite so it's not just you know more flat surface. Then the rest of this really is glass samples if you're curious to see. Um I mean basically you know

in the building then I beg your pardon clear glass. It's clear glass. So it's it's um very I would call it very clear. not a technical term, but at the lobby it's about 85% VLT, which in this day and age is essentially as clear as you can make glass. And then at the tower, and the idea there is it's undercover. Um, we want people to be able to see in and promote that transparency off the street. Um, and then at the tower, it's a um a neutral glass. It's still highly visible, so we've reduced the exterior reflectance so that you can actually see in day and night. Um, but it's a little bit less uh visual light transmissance, more like a 63 to 65% on those two. And and that is because you've obscured the glass or that's because of the reflective quality.

Yeah. Let me let me just show you. Maybe it'll make more sense. More about this than I do. So, this is lobby glass. Okay. Essentially as clear as you can make it without paying a fortune and buying something from German. Okay. The vision glass building itself is this. So again, so that's tinted though. This this is the coatings that essentially give it its performance. Give it a subtle tint. Yeah. So it's got a little bit of green, but that would be called a neutral glass in the glass world. And then what you can see is um not a ton. And that's an energy that's an energy consideration basically.

I did bring a sample just to help kind of give a context here. So this this is kind of the opposite. We're not proposing this, but this is just help you guys with the conversation. That is the other way you can go where it has slightly less green to it. it turns more blue silver, but you can see this gets its performance by a lot more um exterior reflectance and so you can't see through it during this. So, so the one in the one that you're proposing when you're on the interior will read as clear glasses. That okay,

there's when you're on the interior, I'm happy to hand these to you. There's essentially no kind of color rendition difference when you're on the interior. average person because it does look when we're sitting in the room it looks tinted to me but Okay. I love the one you chose. Um I do the one you chose the the glass that you chose. Yeah. But you know part of that is a is you know I've explained it to our client and our team. It's maybe an inter a personal bias but I I think glasses that are a little bit more transparent and a little less reflectance pair better with masonry buildings. the masonry kind of lives with the snow and the rain and everything else and it just feels like a a better match and a little less kind of contemporary to this kind of, you know, masonry that's got a little bit more life to it.

Um, but that's, you know, that's my personal and what's the silverish anodized kind of material down there. So, this is the almost corugated material which will be colored to match. And so this is the I'm for the penthouse. So for Oh, actually the rooftop mechanical colored to match the um colored to match the roof. Okay. Do you And that's the only color of metal you have on the entire building. Then is that correct? Bridge. We would I was wondering if we could talk about the bridge. We do want to talk about bridge. Yeah, please. Okay. By the way, we done on the your thoughts on the exterior and that kind of thing. Any other questions? I think so. Yeah. Unless you've got questions while we're visiting that. Anything is all of the audience from the with the city then? Oh, pretty much. That's our team.

Well, I assume I assume you guys are in favor of it then, right? Yeah. Okay, good. Glutton for punishment. Yeah. Ask about the I know you'll be going through the bridge, but just um some of the things that you know I have some questions about that you might want to touch on me talking about the bridge. I I think I understand that these fins that are coming out are made of aluminum similar to the um I guess the the system the front system of the curtain system of the bridge.

And I'm and so I think I understand that. And I had some questions about the m the coloration of these fins and also um strategies that you might be thinking about to give the bridge as much transparency as possible but still keeping you know the the elements that you that are important to you and the um design aesthetic that you're trying to achieve. But at the same time, I think last time a number of us were concerned about the bridge looking too dark perhaps and a little heavy and you know so just wondering about that and um yeah good question I had it.

Sure. So, so what we've done, we've gone through a little bit on glass here, right? And so, um, the super high transparent glass at the lobby that we can get away with because it's covered effectively and big building, we kind of manage that through the the larger energy code. The the kind of tinted glass, I'll call it just to use your term, um, is the the primary glass for the building itself. And so in thinking about your your kind of uh feedback we got at conceptual review for the bridge, um two things we did was we we thinned up a little bit the density of the fins themselves. And then we also um have worked to make the glass there slightly more transparent than what's on the building here. So kind of the same. It's like a cousin essentially. And so that's this That's this glass here that kind of sits really between the two samples we've just looked at. And so why I bring that up, one is trying to just promote as much um transparency as possible within the base structure there. Um within reason, right? And so when I say within reason, we've got to remember this is a a south facing bridge, right? You make it with glass, it's going to take on a lot of heat load in the summer. And we we want this thing to be um acceptable, you know, for the the occupants that pass through it.

Inhabitable.

Inhabitable. Exactly. And so the the second thing we've done there was um something that came up last time we were here was, you know, thinking about this a little bit more artistically. And so playing with um color a little bit. And the the logic here was this bridge really is about continuity of the courts program, right? And so we really need that for the continuity of of just you know the service that the court provides us. Um the the second piece of that really was this idea that this is linking old and new. Um and so what we played with was this idea of these kind of bronzy copper tones really reflecting that story and something that was more of kind of a a patinaed copper color at the old building and then becomes more of the the kind of rich patentated new um coppery color at the new building. and using that playfully as a story to, you know, one, just break it down a little bit, which I think was um part of it. You know, lighten it up through a different um you know, kind of um concept. Um and then two, just being playful with the light coloration that comes through that bridge and just, you know, a little bit of um kind of experiential relief as you you walk across this bridge internally as well. And so Chris, if you hold this for a second, the color samples that you're seeing on the rendering here. And so the idea is, you know, kind of warm to a a neutral cool. And if I can move my fingers for you guys, you tell me if that's all right. um you know really giving just kind of a a soft gradient to it without being um you know kind of overly um you know variegated so to speak. I

I just had a comment and this is something maybe to think about just personally. I feel like the darkness of the underside and maybe the support elements being dark and bronze are

giving it a heaviness. And I I just it's just a personal thing. I I'm just wondering if as you explore the bridge, maybe looking at the under side being lighter. Yep. And then maybe these other the trusses inside and other support elements being lighter might bring out these fins a little more and give a lightness to them. And then I know you were talking about how important it is on the south face to keep those fins dense. Maybe in the north face they don't have to be as dense and that can also add a sense of transparency too even if you're looking from the south. Fair point. So those are just some thoughts I had about the bridge. Okay.

I I think that's a good idea about the maybe little fewer fins on the north side if Yeah. Yeah. This the sophet I I think we're completely willing to look at that. I think for the sophet piece, what we what we tried to do was keep it in the same color family as the sophets on the building itself. And so that was that I don't to my taste, I don't think I'd want it too light. I like the idea that it kind of anchors this structure along there with so I'd like it a little for my taste maybe a little darker. Did I interrupt you? No, not at all.

Um it it does feel a little heavy to me. Um if I think about you know the like the image you have of the lobby and the transparency of the lobby and the light and aireriness of the lobby. I know there it's you know it's obviously not a lobby. It's a different architectural thing and I don't want to redesign it for you. It just I wish it had the lightness of this lobby and the common please lobby and the glassiness and the transparency rather than a you know but by the way this is elegantly designed. That's not my point. Yeah.

First point is I wish it wasn't there but we're over that. But it does read like I'm looking at the image on the back wall right now which would sort of be like driving down High Street from a few blocks away and it just kind of looks like a black stripe and you know everything else you know we've seen I think is really elegant. I would really you know my personal preference would be to lighten this thing up significant orders of magnitude to the extent that that's possible. And so what would that mean? You removing some of the fins, you mean? Or I don't know. These are the professional architects. I I I don't know. I I just You know what was here years ago was a dark,

right? Yeah. Dark bronze bronze glass, too, right? You know, and it's been nice not having that there, frankly. Um what? You finish. I'm gonna No, no. Anyway, that's that's it. Thank you.

I was just gonna say, does this get lit at night? That is a good question. Um yeah, I have to think about that. It there is no um there is no um specific lighting in that sense that we're you know intending to dramatize it. The the um kind of basic lighting of that space will require to stay on for egress requirements internally on the inside. So it will be lit on the inside for that. Now those will, you know, at night in particular will drop down um in terms of their kind of foot candle or their brightness just based on um you know afterhour use sort of thing.

How we can't really tell how far apart are those fins there? They're a foot. It's a good it's a big building. It's a big bridge. And then how um how deep are they? So So right now they're they're close to 12 in. And so I think uh maybe to to Jeff's point, I mean I would I would start probably thinning up the depth which I think will immediately relieve it and then maybe thinning out the cadence. Um they're they're on a one foot module and they they kind of fall off here and there. So you you generally have one of I kind of like fins, but I think if it if you if it did feel like it were more transparent, that might get closer to the lighter kind of effect that are they I'm just

attractive. Along those same lines, the fins are they being um manufactured by the same company that would be manufacturing the um actual

Yeah, that whole assembly will be will be one vendor. Correct. Yeah. I don't know if there would be other products out there, other materials like something that would be that could serve also as a fin that would be like a sunscreen, but that might not be metal. That would be I don't know, some type of glass or some type of other material that has a translucency to it. But if how you're designing it is however this um system is being designed, you know, the framing system that's part of it, you know, it might get very expensive if you're trying to add another material and then figure out how that's engineered. That might become very very um difficult.

Yeah, I think when in a system like that, you you really have a a small handful of options. I think you've you've hit on it. I think it's really metal. You could do glass. I think there's real challenges with keeping that clean long term, frankly. Um, and then, you know, you can do things like, um, you could do masonry products, you could even do, you know, wood. I'd have to look into that in a code, but again, long-term durability projects that I think would be problematic for for the city and the courts. Well, maybe like everyone is saying to just try to see what's the minimal you need using the fins that will still, you know, make it um make it functional for the f south facing and seeing if you can either expand them or shorten them or um do something with the trust system to lighten that. you know, something so that you still have that beautiful effect that you're going after, but that it looks like it's floating and part of the project, not like a

heaviness that's been set there a as a like as an afterthought. Fair enough. Um, you know, I kind of like that. This is odd, but I like your little flashes of red in there, but you're not proposing those. I mean, I think that could even if it's just eight of them along there or or just a little brightness in there. We had one more that was, you know, kind of a true reddish patina copper.

Um it, you know, when you get the actual sample, it just it felt it felt a little too far from the rest of them to where all of the sudden, you know, the idea of a gradient falls apart. Um I mean, happy happy to look at it. I I do think the you know just my gut without having drawn it that probably the easiest way to get to a happy medium is probably focusing on um as as Jenna noted probably you know looking at only doing it on the south where it truly is performative and maybe not bothering on the north is probably honestly because you do read it it's a narrow space and so when you look at this you are reading fins on both sides and so that's part of what's giving the additional visual density is because you're reading you don't have fins on the our side.

We do. And I I actually think that as step one would probably be what would reduce that kind of visual density and that that experience as you're kind of reading it on the page today. And you could still when you're from when you're looking from the north, you would to the south, you would still see something through it again beyond because there there does come a challenge point where you reduce it enough on on a single face and all of a sudden there's not enough of it there to like be a thing anymore. right? There's there's not enough kind of density for it to be read as a whole. And so that would be the you know just kind of as a designer the concern about thinning out one face too much.

Um can you focus out on this screenshot here for a second? Yeah. What's the thing in the upper right hand corner? That's the the sophet of the the building the corner pulls back there. I think you can see it better if we go back two or three slides. I think it's just showing up very um very kind of Yeah. pixelated in that image. Yep. Look like a brick panel. Thank you. Okay. Other questions, comments, thoughts, the group, questions from the audience? Nope. They're going to let me sweat it. Where are we guys? What do we want to do?

This is for final approval. This is for approval. Yes, they're requesting approval and we've made a lot of comments. I don't know whether we want to try to incorporate those or um what what's your timing? Are you Yeah. So, are you looking for final approval today? I mean, do you want need it want it? Uh is it So, you know, cards on the table. What is what is most important to us is get to uh demolition. And so I think, you know, particularly like these bridge comments, I think these are things we happily to look at. Um I think the the challenge for us is we we need approval, right, to get to the the demolition, some sort of conditional approval. Gotcha. And that has a a seasonal timing component for us with with what we're doing for that demolition.

Let's just say that I'm I mean there's some things we could We're getting awful close, but it wouldn't hurt to kind of burnish this a little bit, tweak it. Does that make sense? And would people feel comfortable? I this is a deal that's going to go. Okay. I mean, you're committed to build this building, right? Yep. Um you have financing, too, right?

And um so I I think um we could and it would be consistent with what we have done over time um agree to issue a demolition permit. Um because I think where we are on this and we've all discussed this the the I think we like the building the building is better than what we've got maybe in spades and now we're down to some details. I think it'll be better than trying to go do one of these convoluted u motions to kind of incorporate this stuff and then we don't know what you know maybe have them get them to come back if you'd be willing to do that happy and then we could say go on demolition. Does that make sense to

Yeah, I think maybe a sense detail on landscape planting materials, vertical landscape walls, things like that, just so that we understand the pedestrian environment. Sure. Just a a click more. Nothing excessive. This is a large, very visible, very important building for our city here. So, we all want it and I know you do. We all importance of it for sure. And um so I think I would be happy to entertain a motion to uh approve demolition on this site and then u ask these folks to come back then and with some of these comments

and I think like looking studying the bridge like you said with some of the things that you're thinking of doing so we can see maybe a couple of options and discuss what meets the goals the best. Sure. That would be procedurally this works for you then. Yeah. Since you all have seen the plans for new development and new construction, you're comfortable with Yes. You know, um this isn't tied to anything. So, we're just just approving a demolition here. It's not tied to the a condition that anything be built, but if you all are comfortable with that, clearly the plans are um you know, thorough. So, and we're and we're doing it on the basis that we're very familiar and very comfortable with where we are on the plans. So, and but we want to spend a few more minutes on the details.

Perfect. Do we have as fast as we can get back? Great. Could I have a motion to that effect then, please? For demolition or was did somebody make a motion? Motion for demolition. Yes. To approve a demolition. Yes. To approve the demolition. Okay. And is there a second? Second. Other questions, comments, thoughts? Okay. Anything from I'm not even going to ask the audience. Um, all those in favor say I. I. Those opposed. That motion carries. Uh so we'll issue that demolition permit uh for you there or our approval for that and then um we'll see you shortly. Yeah. Thanks for coming in.

I think it's going to be a great building and we you know this that can be a very interesting little uh piece of the uh uh geography in downtown Columbus. So yeah, and I appreciate the attention you put on the high street side. It was a good solution. And I like the idea of it of the people not going back and forth, the jaywalking, all that kind of stuff. So, good job on that. Right. Yep. Thanks so much. Okay. Um, anything else? We need to approve the um the staff staff approvals. Could I have a motion to do that? So, moved. Okay. Motion on the table. Any questions or comments on that?

All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed? Motion carries. Um tomorrow we have the um um Harrison Smith Awards. Anybody coming to that to join us? Great, great, good. We'll see you tomorrow then. And uh it's at, by the way, it's at Veterans Memorial. Yes. So, and we get parking right there on the side. Um good. Anything else we need to review, think about, talk about? Um, Belus is going to um just uh send around some phone numbers so we all if we need to contact people if we have any kind of a an emergency situation arise

um you know like it happened today so we can maybe that'll come in handy. So um let's see anything else we need to discuss Belus. Uh no that's it. You'll get some like a housekeeping email from me. Great. Okay. Well, thanks everybody for your time. I appreciate it.