Borough Council - Regular Meeting

Yeah, we're live.

I'd like to call to order the Comey Burough Council work session for April 7th, 2026. Can I have a roll call, please? Council person here. President here. Council person here. Council President here person here here. Thank you. Is there anybody who would like to give an invitation? Please stand for a moment of silence. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I got it. Thank you. Thank you. Join me in a word of prayer. Absolutely.

Dear God, thank you for this meeting tonight. God bless every person here. Uh give discernment, wisdom, good conversation, and just a spirit of your presence here tonight, Lord, as this council does its work and as your people await the work that comes from these people called the council here in the burrow. Thank you, Lord, for this time. Amen.

And thank you. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands nationy andice for Are there any additions, deletions or legalizations to adjust? None. I have a motion to approve the agenda. So

second motion by Councilman Murphy, second by Councilman Lee to approve the agenda as published. All in favor say I. I. Cent comments. First comment is from Kimberly Snider from the Y WCA of Lancaster.

Hello. Thank you so much. I shouldn't have touched it. The closer it is to you, the better it is.

Okay. It won't stay up. Anyway, um my name is Kim Snyder. I work for the YCA of Lancaster. I'm gonna hold it. Um I'm from the YBCA of uh of Lancaster and um I'm from the Sexual Assault Prevention and Counseling Center and we are a nonprofit organization. We provide um services for individuals of of any gender. Um you know a lot of times people hear YWCA and think that we only serve women but we actually do um provide services for any you know anyone of any gender. We have um services in schools um for children for prevention education to prevent um child sexual abuse um any any kind of sexual violence. Um and I'll mention a little more about that our our services at the end. Um, but I just wanted to read um, April is sexual assault awareness month and um, we do events all over Lancaster County to observe um, those impacted by sexual abuse, abuse, harassment or assault. Um, every year we do a proclamation. We go to um, different, you know, um, burrows and towns um, in Lancaster County and um, yeah, basically read uh, the proclamation. Um so you know just so the community is aware of our services and just to kind of observe um sexual assault awareness month. Um April marks sexual assault awareness month um which I'll call SAM. Um therefore a time to bring attention to the widespread issue of sexual violence while we empower communities to act. For 25 years, SAM has united survivors, advocates, and communities in the shared commitment to end sexual assault, abuse, and harassment. This milestone is both a celebration of progress and a call to

move to keep moving forward. The SAM theme this year is 25 years stronger, looking back and moving forward, honoring the history and growth of the movement while reaffirming our commitment to a safer future for all. Sexual abuse, assault, and harassment affect individuals of every background. To address this, we must prov promote education around consent, healthy communication, and bystander intervention. By equipping individuals and communities with these tools, we can help prevent violence before it starts, and foster a culture of respect and care. Um just some of the statistics um show that 32.9% of adults with intellectual disabilities have experienced sexual violence. One in three Hispanic women reported unwanted sexual contact in their lifetime. Nearly two in five LGBTQ plus young people uh which is 39% reported experiencing forced sexual contact. One in five male victims reported only male perpetrators and one in two had only fe female perpetrators and about one in six had both male and female perpetrators. Over 53% of women and over 29% of men reported experiencing contact sexual violence. This April during sexual assault awareness month, we reflect on 25 years of action and progress toward ending sexual assault, abuse, and harassment. The 2026 theme, 25 years stronger, looking back and moving forward, celebrates the resilience of survivors and the communities that have worked for change. We must strive to continue taking meaningful steps towards prevention, supporting those around you, and creating spaces where everyone feels safe, valued, and respected. Together, we can carry this movement forward for the next 25 years and beyond. I join

advocates and communities across the country in taking action to prevent sexual violence. April is sexual assault awareness month, and each day of the year is an opportunity to create change for the future. Um, so yeah, uh, we do, so like I had kind of said before, um, we provide a lot of different services. One of them is that we have a 24-hour hotline. Um so really anyone who is not only impacted by sexual violence but also if they have a a friend or loved one um that you know they want to talk to someone from our organization to kind of you know talk about if they have um if they have concerns for like a friend or family member. Um we also have medical advocates who uh are available 24/7. So for any um anyone who experiences a sexual assault, if they go to the hospital for an exam, uh we have an advocate that will go and provide support and kind of advocate for them while they're in the hospital. Uh we also provide legal advocacies um including support for PFAS um and just you know any a lot of a lot of different things for legal advocates. Um and we also provide no cost counseling um therapy services and um yeah so we have a lot of a lot of different services. Um so yeah I will be um I will be around until the end if anyone would have any like questions or thoughts or anything about our services. Um I will I will be here. So thank you so much for allowing me to speak and taking the time.

Thank you. Do you have that phone number for us? The hotline? Yeah, I have some I have a few other cards for like our hotline. Yeah, I have some more if you want one.

Yes, please. Thank you. Next comments from Mr. Good evening you all. Just a reminder, uh, the CAT Columbia cat meeting is every second Wednesday of the month, which falls tomorrow evening from 5:30 to 6:30 at the at the Cal and Watch Museum. So, if anybody's interested,

thank you. Thanks.

Is there anybody else looking at comments at this time? All right. Thank you. Leadership committees. We'll start with legislation and our first topic tonight is food trucks. Sure. I guess uh uh really just to restart the conversation with at last meeting we were kind of discussing um you know whether you know what the intent really was uh whether it was just be on public property or private property and it wasn't to be on private property and then we were also discussing the uh the fees for uh the application for it. So um that's basically where it's at now. I know there's some other conversation that's been uh shall we say initiated or reinitiated as far as you know what's really driving all this. I mean for myself I guess what's really what's driving it is you know ever since I've been uh chair of legislation for the last little over a year now. It's been one of the items that's on the list. So we just kind of proceeded with them as they were on the list. This goes back to uh the original the draft that I that we working with goes back to when Mark Styver is afterwards here as as the bureau manager. So, um just like to open the floor for some more discussion as to whether um you know what the intent is if it's if if it's need you know I noticed some discussion whether or not it's really even needed in the bureau. So, just open up for I personally have no no skin in the game. I'm just trying to work through the list of uh items that we had and really you know we had a due to the the loss of uh you know not having a burl manager for a while. I I know our our solicitor was really unavailable to help out much with some things that were going on with myself and try to help Paul and I I work through legislation. So now that now that we have you know people in place we can get these

conversations back rolling hot again. So that's basically where what brought this to the st the state that the ordinance is in at this moment. So I think that maybe it's not a hot button topic, but I think it is good to have a standard on board so that there's no gray area in the future as long as it's acceptable. Kelly, what are some of the changes from the previous version from the last uh workshop meeting? Um really the only one was uh what was it? Defining that public space. Yeah. That we we um changed the definition in public space under permit requirements 121-3. Okay.

No food truck shall operate within a Columbia Burough public space. This was never intended to be, you know, on like the churches have their festivals and they have food trucks on on their property. It's not that that was what they were intended for. It was the intent because what I knew it from the beginning was you know we have parades and things like that. People come and set up they must have had food trucks along the street on the corner. That's what this was intended to address.

Got me. So, I'm sorry. So, when when this was was first put out, it like Kelly said, um this was this goes back to actually the days of CO when Mark was here and we were having an issue because people were just randomly coming on onto Locust Street or wherever flopping a food truck down and we were trying to get ahead of, you know, during COVID there was a lot of there were a lot of changes, you know, with social distancing and all that stuff. So, we were trying to get ahead of it. Now, here we are six months or six months, six years out from when we started talking about this. Um, one of the one I now that I've had some time to to think this over and Mary Baringer's comment really resonated with me. um what are we trying to solve for? What what problem are we trying to solve that we are continuing to pursue this? I I mean I realize people have put time into this over the years. Um but again I think what started it was a very different time than now. and also uh thinking about this in in terms of what are we solving for and what are all of the ramifications. So pretty much any anyone that would bring a food truck here for any event that takes place on our public streets would be subject to this. So

the car show, every one of those food vendors would have to do this. Yet we're not requiring anything different from any of the other random the churches and anyone else that is selling food. I think that that puts, you know, at that point, how are we going to en enforce this in terms of is it going to be up to us or is up to the Lions to make sure that every one of their food trucks has complied with this? If it's up to us, that's, you know, that's putting work on staff. Um but also in that same vein. So then we have we have an event, you know, the church has is having a a craft fair up in Jansen's. Well, that's private property, so they wouldn't be subject to this. And I don't think people the public perception and the food truck people are not going to understand that there is a distinction between public and private. Um, and one of the things that got changed somewhere along the way, and I don't know why, but I really completely disagree with it, and that's that 30-day the 30-day the the the thing is val the permit's valid for 30 days only. I mean, initially I think it was six months or a year and I was fine with that, but I do not I mean every 30 days is a little

excessive

in my mind, you know, especially I mean here's here's another scenario that that we have to think about. So during the uh the m music in the park, those concerts, the Lion's Pup will often have a food truck there. They'll often have Scoops or someone else or various people coming up and setting up there. So that's yes, it's private property, but it's also public space in that we are we are authorized to enforce things in there. So is that is that the case? Are we are we concerned with what happens in Lucas Street Park? Another another question. Um, you know, we have thing when when people have different festivals and stuff and things happening down at River Park, it's the pro it's the public and that I guess that's just like, you know, the the car show or the parade. Everyone down there would have to have would have to comply with this. But the individual vendors that are also selling food would not have to comply with this. And I don't I don't quite under I mean to me it doesn't make sense. We're seems to me that we're trying to put more regulation in place to make it more difficult for these things to happen. And we got burned with this with the special event fees and everything. And then it was, you know, we're we're not we're we're doing too

much to regulate now. People don't want to do this and everything else. Are we doing the same thing to ourselves with the food truck? I think six months would be good to pay the permit. Have it be good for six months rather than 30 days. I guess I'm through a season. Currently, if a food truck came in and was at an event, what sort of do they have any sort of like registration or licensing or anything that they have to do? No. They don't fall under any other current. Okay. No. Mr. President, I I have requested uh Pam Armold, who handles our events, be here this evening.

Can I ask her to come forward? I mean, my my other my other concern is and and this was the concern I expressed when we were talking about are we going to do a background check? Does does putting these regulations in place and saying they have a food truck permit, does that put liability back onto the burrow if something were to happen? Um, you know, and and that was my big thing for not wanting to do a a a background check. Like I don't want the burrow to have the liability for someone to say, "Oh, I ate the food there and it got sick and it's the burrow's fault because you gave them a permit."

No. Don't think they should have their own liability. If if people are going to sue, they're going to come after the They're going to come after the bur, too. That's the way it works.

I mean, going back to the beginning when this when I first, you know, kind of reading through this, I I without knowing the past history of it, I I that's my assumption was, hey, this is something to put in place, you know, not not just to protect the burrow, but to pro protect the citizens, but but to protect the burrow to make sure that we have something in place that we're saying, hey, these are the requirements of it. You we're not going to be the one going there checking to make sure you have a valid license. We're not going to make it with this with the state. We're not going to be going in and checking to make sure that you have served safe for at least one of your employees that you should have. We're not going to we're not necessarily checking that, but I think by putting a I hate to call it a policy more than a more than an ordinance, but having something in place, letting them know that these what are the expectations are, but without putting without putting a knowledge of what the expectation is out there, you know, again, you know, and like you said, it's going to happen either way because, you know, one person gets sick from eating something at a food truck, it's not a big deal. Somebody goes to a food truck and 10 15 people get sick from the same food. We are going to hear about it. I don't mean the f the food vendor is going to hear about it. I don't mean the person that's holding the event that has the food truck's going to hear about it. the burrow is going to hear about. It's gonna be our fault for not making sure we didn't do x, y, or z. Or somebody that works in the in in the booth makes it makes you says something or makes some uh makes a pass at somebody and they take it the wrong way and they say, "Oh, well, this person tried to, you know, cost me at at the stand." Again, it's not going to go back to the to the stand. It's not going to go back to the to the uh the group whatever that has the the food truck. The blame person is going to be at fault. there's always going to fall back on the barrel. So to me, that's kind of why I looked at at least to have something in place that say these are what the expectations are. I hate to really call it a policy of an ordinance, but

right. I mean, but if we have an ordinance, enforcement is key. And we have that problem with other other ordinances that are not enforced. And I mean when you're enforcer we go. Well problem with for me I I know it's with some money issue too but for me right now a lot of the problem with enforcement is you just don't have the people to get out there and cover the whole whole damn town which you know you got you basically have two people there doing enforcement of our entire code this whole dam not near enough.

I get that. And but with this, if you're going to put the ordinance in and you're going to have you're going to expect enforcement, then every event that has food trucks up and down, we're going to have to have someone that goes to each of those food trucks and make sure that they or, you know, somehow have some in place to make sure that every one of them is has their permit. I was going to say, isn't that all? Pam, maybe you could start out by explaining to everyone how long you have managed the events here in the community.

Okay. I've probably been processing and managing the events since, oh my gosh, I've been on a police side about nine years and I was doing it at least five or six on this side. Um, currently how the food trucks are handled. If it is part of an event, we require the event organizer to collect all of the things which and I'm not I don't know if you're familiar with the application, but um currently we ask for a copy of the truck registration, copy of the driver's license of the owner or the person that's going to be there that day and a copy of the food safety license and serve safe. That at least one person on the truck will be served safe. And we require, like I said, the um organizer of the event has to make sure that the application and all the required documents are together and then they must send them all to me. I go through them. I give Paula or codes manager a copy of them. And this is anything on burough property ra whether it's part of an event. Um we really don't have too many trucks that want to come and just set up on the street, but we currently have one for November, I'm sorry, April 11th up at the state theater. they're having a grand opening. So, we're requiring the same information from them. Um, just so that we we know. I do agree with um Kelly that and I wish Evan was here tonight, but I I agree we have to have something in place and with Heather that we do need enforcement. Um, it's just how do we go about that at this point? So, I just wrote down a few things that kind of came to mind when I read over the current draft. And one of them is um the 30-day as Heather said there's two types of vendors again. The one who's sitting out on the street just wants to sell in our neighborhood and the one that's part of

an event.

So, the French fry vendor at the parade. Do are they going to get a 30-day permit, but the pres are five or six months apart. So, do they have to get it twice where somebody else who's going to set up for 30 days has to pay that once and use it for possibly 30 days? Um, and and during that 30 days, can they just come and set up wherever they like on burough property, the streets, um, without letting us know they're going to be there? And along with that, I don't mean to interrupt those. I don't have a pencil to write it down or I would do that. Um, but like thinking about the great records, they have four different trucks. Do we have to give them permit? Does each truck have to be

We did last year. We did. Yeah. So, I mean,

but and if you're already collecting all of this information, why do we need the ordinance? Well, you have added additional items that you're requiring to the ordinance um beyond what we're already collecting. We have not collected fees because there's an inflate fee on the books as of yet. Um and if they sit if they set up on near a sidewalk walk somewhere downtown here, they have to face the sales side has to face the sidewalk because it creates a safety issue if it doesn't. So, do you want that in the ordinance as a requirement? Yes.

For parades, that doesn't happen. Well, that was my next question. If it's an event, um, and they're they're going to be at a parade or whatever, um, are they going to be young and fathered in? I mean, we've been doing the Lions Club parade for how many years? And do we all of a sudden start charging them? Also, I'm going to start with this and I appreciate the comment of facing I thought when I look down this ordinance

why this ordinance um the purpose definitions I think we can all agree the the definition of food truck is a license motorized vehicle. We can all agree in public space, streets, sidewalks, parks, other bur property. Um, permits required. Instead of bro issuing a permit that kind of say we list um certification requirements

that you can't be a food truck in Columbia without safe serve without um the mobile food facility permit.

Yeah. That that's safe from the state because if you're if you're inspected. There's really not nothing for us to do there. Just like go to restaurants. Um, so we changed that a little bit. But then what I like about this ordinance and take out the fines, take out the 30 days. I I don't really care. What I like about the ordinance is operating regulations. Uh food trucks may operate in designated public spaces or on private property with written under consent providing not obstruct traffic pedestrians pathways for emergency access. I think the sole purpose of this ordinance is we have control over location. The second one is distance. food truck should not operate within 150 ft of a primary entrance of an open brick and mortar restaurant without restaurants written consent. I think that's necessary. I think having hours of operation is necessary. Um, and if if somebody's going to do a midnight dance somewhere and they want a food truck for midnight, then they have to come here and ask for a special exception. But I think having that there really defines our expectations. Uh not allowing trucks to sit for more than 24 hours. I think that's important. And then and then the waste cleanup. So I do believe in the regulations. Um I'm not I agree with Heather. I'm not sure we need to to uh write down criteria of what they have to submit to us. They get a permit from us and everything else. I think we need to know what we're going

to be. Um I think we need to know who it is, but I don't think it needs to be all that we're asking for. I think maybe the issue is um liability and that's why I was wishing Evan would be here because at what point are we liable? Bur liable but it doesn't matter if they're licensed not licensed permitted not permit. We are technically allowed. We're kind of against if you do if you don't. If we if we require you get sued.

If we require to have a permit, then we're accountable because we issue a permit and we're fault. If we don't give a permit, then we're responsible because we should have given him a permit. We should have inspected. We should have did this. The reality of it is if it's on a public space, street, sidewalk, park, whatever, the burrows will eventually just the way it is. Well, we have liability insurance. And that's the other thing I think for the organizer of the event naming us as a secondary insurer,

right? And I think we also should have that uh I didn't read over everyone, but there is a minimum 500 $500,000 coverage. They don't have to have it for us. I think we should have some kind of minimum coverage for the food truck. And you have that in as one of the new requirements, I think. Yes. Right.

Yeah. and and and so I think if if we cover our basis, my my goal is to regulate or not regulate but to to uh to assure the people of Columbia that food trucks not going to run till 11:00 in the morning, 11:00 at night to assure that uh Columbia Pizza is not going to have a pizza truck parked out in front of it. Um that kind of stuff. the fees, but they are going to have the food truck parked out in front of it when they have that event at the State Theater,

which is right beside Columbia Pizza. Well, they're closed now anyway. Do you see what I'm saying? Well, then maybe we should require them to get get the And I said, I agree with that. If Calling Pizza says, "Hey, you're selling tacos. I don't care." That's fine. If they're selling pizza, come to pizza and they say, "I don't want to recite you, but at least at least we have some say, some control, but I I don't agree that we need to get a permit. I don't agree we need to charge

I initially I was each of a fee, but the more I read it, I listen to the rest of council, I agree. The thing is not necessary as long as we have more expectation ordinance instead of necessary. Do we have the capacity to police it? No, we have classic police because the cards.

So, so when I say that, here's what I mean by that. We know of a vendor the beer came in and said they want to park the truck out front. At that point with this ordinance, we could require them to get permission from the post. Okay. Um we may not we may say to operate in the burrow, you need a safe sur. Okay. We may never check them for safe zone, but if a health official comes into town and checks it or or if we have the spot check it

or somebody does get sick and we we do an investigation or something like that, we can check it because we said it's required. But we don't have to have somebody walking around, a police officer, codes officer, anybody saying, "Do you meet these criteria?" It's just an obvious thing. How do we regulate or enforce this ordinance without a permit? It's Wouldn't it just be kind of like something that they would agree to by doing business in the burrow like just automatically when they do the application? Yeah. Just be on the application.

Yeah. The the same way we the same way we enforce any other ordinance. I mean, we expect the general public to understand um the ordinances for property maintenance. So, we're still requiring an application. Yes. Yeah. Right. Or I mean, if they're already doing the whole thing with the with the special events, why do we need to do something additional? Pam, can I ask a question? Yes. On your on the facility use requests. Even if it's for an special event,

is there still requirement for them to pay, you know, a fee for the as part of the facilities request to have a Huh?

That's for the event, not for the event. And you know what that would but I like that because then Rickers isn't going to have to do four different four different how are they doing it for each truck right it's all covered under event right as covered under their liability for you truckability I think the truck should have it and I want to comment to that is that your policy more expensive and when we were asking for $35 for food truck they were like

so I'm not saying I'm not saying each food truck has to give an addendum insurance policy for the cover burrow I'm saying they have to be insured yeah it's a business yeah it's a business naming the burrow as additional insurance that should be under the bank itself Now Jack, what were you asking? I am thinking about like what is the situation if a food truck wants to just set up not for an event but just on the street application. So they they would still have to fill out the application. So that's what you meant of is there still a um

oversight right of the but it's just it's just a simple high level oversight you're not asking to I do wonder if in that case for a truck that wants to come in that is not associated with an event if that year-long um you know license or whatever can would be a better option for them that way instead of you know oh they want to come into town like twice a week. Well, every week they have to fill out two, you know, applications to have their truck on this spot as opposed to we give them a license to operate in the burrow as a truck that can move around and not be attached to an event. The only issue I see with that, and it's a uh

Go ahead. Yes. The only issue I see with that is then there's no oversight at all. Yeah. Okay. They could uh decide to set up on any block without notification to the burrow. Yeah. We don't even know they're there. But we have an ordinance. We can force it. But Eric, I guess what I'm asking you is do you want any food truck do you want if if uh say five food trucks wanted to take up parking spaces on Locust Street, which you know some Saturdays are at a premium, is that okay? No. Uh we have businesses for that. at least. No. No. Because what we're saying is if they're filling out the facilities use request,

we would know where they're where they're located. The thing is, if they're doing a facilities use request, do we really need them to do a separate permit application for having a food truck if they're already doing the facilities use request? So, we're talking about two different things. I believe Ethan is indicating we're issuing like a year-long permit for them to do it. So there wouldn't be a need for them to notify us. That's that's the point that staff and I are trying to make.

How about how about I'm just throwing this out. So I think I think like like Heather like you said and what Heather touched on I think is really a good a good solution for this. They're already the organization that's going to have the event and most likely that's when your food truck's going to be here for an event. that organization is already paying a fee for their facilities use request, you know, $50, $60, whatever, which would cover, you know, we we say which would cover the cost of, you know, quote unquote, you know, um this this fee. So, I would put in I would just say the fees covered in the in the facility use request and then under C where it says permits are valid for 30 days. What do you want to call per whatever you want to call? So I would say the permit is valid for the duration of the approved facilities use request period. When that facilities use request is over that food stand doesn't have the right to be there anymore. Now if they want to come to another food and they want to come to another event at a different organization brings that same food stand in and they're filling out a facilities use request and they're paying that organization is paying a fee for that. So that would cover that again. It would just keep that would cover for them. What about the individual like the the state theater? There's an air facility if it's just the food truck cover.

This is where I'm going with that. I agree. Let's eliminate the date of event, name of event, and put in date of operation and that that's the days they're going to be operating. So, if somebody was coming in for a whole weekend of of of selling, they'll put down the three days or whatever they're here for and the location. Um, some of this stuff doesn't boil and not approve it for a whole year or six months. There is no but yeah, it would remove the an individual permit for food truck. Instead, it would be just like an event

event. Yeah. Their approval would come would fall under the facility use request for the event, right? Yeah. Just food truck just for the food truck. So food truck permit to operate would be covered under that facility use request for that event. And when that event's over, that permit for that truck ends. And if they want to be if they want to be here in another event, they're covered under that facility press whatever that. Yeah. So like they could be here 20 times for 20 different events.

Next week, you know, Scoops wants to come and just randomly set up on Locust Street. So they fill out a food truck thing. Boom. We get all that information. You know, two weeks from now, they want to randomly set up over on Union Street. They're going to come in and they're going to fill out the form again. You know, I mean, we could say we could say, you know, we're only going to charge them one permit fee per year or one fee per year or per six months. And because the majority of I mean, they're going to know what. So, I'm sorry. I'm really I'm really scared of rain today. No, I'm out there. I'm sorry.

I agree. Everything you said except for I don't I'm not so sure we need a a permit. Yeah, I think the facility use request will be the facilities use request permit. No, that's what I'm saying. That's why I said I I even said I don't know if you want to use a permit word permit, but permission you could say is valid for you. I would say permission for the food truck. You have to have something there or the Phillies the facilities use request becomes the permit. The approved facilities use request becomes the permit for that food truck to be here for that event. Scott, you can just come up to the mic.

So then the other the only other thing I would add to it to this ordinance besides subtracting the fees and extend the time stuff is I would also um like to see in this audience who's over codes. You have codes. So these right now events. Right. And you send the ones you get to codes anyway.

Okay. So, they're getting to codes whether it's an event or if they're just doing a Right. Okay. So, are you okay with everything we're talking? Yes. Hold on there a second. Now, are you in agreement with everything we're saying? So, yeah, I'm confused, too. I want to recap it so I make sure I understand it. All right. Go ahead. Bye. So basically, if somebody wants to have a food truck, if they're part of an event, they speak with the event organizer and they are covered under the Can I stop you there? Yes.

If somebody wants to have a food truck in Columbia Burrow, facilities use just submit the food truck in four. Okay. So, not under other events as well. No, because um for example, farming spray, they're going to do they're going to end the farm spray on uh June. I just want to get advertising. So, they're going to hold an event out of Glad Food Tr. This isn't for property. No,

let's just assume it's not. They're holding the event. They could either say to all their food truck vendors, you have to get fill out a form at the burrow or they can make copies, hand it out to the food truck and then submit it all in one package. It doesn't No, not now. Correct me if I'm wrong, Pam. Right now. So, we'll just use the the the Lion's Club the the Halloween parade because that is definitely on public property, right? The Lions Club is going to says they're getting, you know, six different food trucks, right? They get the Lions get six of these forms. Yes.

And they give one to each of their trucks and it's and they are going to gather these this information and they're going to come in to Pam and they're going to give Pam six packets, one for each food truck. Right. Right. And that Right. So it's all on It's all on that. It's all do not go back to that.

Right. So then the random taco truck that wants to set up up there, they're coming in and they're filling out um a a they're going to say, "We want to we want to set or that that business says, "Hey, I'm going to have a food truck come set up out front. What do I need?" Pam's going to handle a food truck application um and process it similar to a facilities use request. She's going to request all this information. They're going to get it. She's going to say it's approved. Okay. So, I have a question about this. If I'm going to have an event,

I know I have to fill out the event form. Um, but to me as the event organizer, if if I took this and gave it out to all my food truck people and said, "Here's their food truck application. Fill it out and get it back to me." Then I could go to PAM with all the applications already filled out. Yeah, that's what they do. That's what they do. And I think if it's an event, it should all go through the organization rather than saying, "You guys have to go fill this out and let me know when it's done." have six different people coming to you. But you're saying you want to forget about all that documentation. No, we say this is Hold on a second. Hold on a second.

This is what you need and have that sign at the bottom. I agree. Yeah, I I think I think that if we put in our ordinance, these are what you're required to have to operate the food truck, your safe serve, your health coverage, your insurance, whatever. You're required to have that. for us to ask for it and then and then do it with like a check on it or whatever, I think ludicrous. We're just saying you're required to have it. If you don't have it, then I saw here somewhere has a $500 fine, $100 fine, $250 fine. So that's where that would apply, right?

But they're operating a business, so they should have everything covered. There should not be anything for them to uh to really Okay.

We have that in there. Okay. And she says truck that has not obtained a permit will consist of being like last year. I think it was one neighbor down and she might have said

Yeah. me when I would have

permit. Yeah, for permit reference.

Yeah, thank you. So, is there any consideration that you don't follow through with an ordinance at all and just expand your facility's use request to include all of these parameters? Forget the ordinance. Um, lay out all your specifications within the facility's use request with your appropriate disclaimers for insuranceances, uh, liability, serve, safe registrations, state permits, whatever they need, and include it all in your facility's use request. No one's going to read your ordinance to know what's required.

That's true. So make it easy for the user, make it easier for enforcement, make it me, make it easier for monitoring. Just a suggestion. Without an ordinance though, you can't assess fonts. Okay. Right. Enforce. I agree with Mary that it should be spelled out very clearly on the application what the expectations are. Right. That's something that we could I figured that'd be simple. Rework the uh rework the application application. that that stuff and make it very clear on there. But you're right, if we want to enforce it, enforce it, we have to have it in an ordinance.

So, but we don't have to have it like it is with all the permit language and all that. So, all right, I've saved it and I will say work at Kelly. Okay, as defined in the instead of all those steps, you can just say as defined in the facility. I'm over stimulated. I know. Yeah, I know. No, I I know where you're coming from. Jay had a question or comments. Scott had Scott. I'm sorry, Scott. Just to keep in mind, like the ice cream guy that comes around here, he doesn't have a set place for based on

He's a transient. He needs a transient business. That's a transient business. That's not considered the same as food truck. I mean, it is. It's a food truck, but it's a transient business. It's not No, no. I I No, that that's mobile. It moves all the time or a food truck, you're plopping it down and that's where it's going to sit. Where the ice cream truck I know. I'm saying that's but it's covered. suggest.

Absolutely. So that she's clear and I'm sure she has some good ideas on how to build that. Absolutely. That's right. pretty similar. Yeah, most of them have most of them fees. Yeah, a lot most not too No, not too many because they're encouraging they want to encourage business. not the fees but the the legislation.

But yeah, they I mean they they do the same thing like they specify um times of you know in place and the whole thing of you have to have the opening to the sidewalk. You can't plop it like those kinds like basic stuff that we have in here. Can you use Jake's mic? Just push that up. Turn it on, Jake.

I have more for the live stream just to make sure that people watching the live stream can hear you clearly. Say it again. It's to make sure people on the live stream can hear you clearly. Okay. Um, I just have a problem with the food stand versus the food truck because the truck has four wheels on it that makes it different from the food stand. I know. I That's what I I questioned that too, Frank. like

until you brought a lot of them things up, I didn't realize there was so much to this and I had I could have comment on everything you said that I I was waiting to hear. Um some of my questions, um these are definitely curbside trucks. They're not to be parked on the payment, correct? No, they shouldn't be.

And I don't know what all is in the ordinance. I I I read over the ordinance. I said, "Who in the hell is going to enforce this thing?" But anyway, um the trucks are curbsized. Uh is there any do they have any restrictions? Will the trucks have any restrictions of any kind of what they can't do? Like uh when someone comes in for a permit or whatever they're coming in for, what if they want to open outside the market house?

Can you tell them no at that time? It's in here that they cannot open uh they can food trucks shall not operate within 150 ft of the primary entrance of an open brick and mortar restaurant without the restaurant's written consent. Okay, there is a restaurant.

Hours of operations are permitted between 9:00 a.m. and 900 p p.m. daily unless otherwise approved for special events. Trucks may not remain parked unattended in one public location for more than four hours within a 24-hour period. Overnight parking on public streets is prohibited. Operators must provide a waste receptacle for customers and remove all trash generated by their operation.

Okay, so someone comes in for permit or whatever they got to get has a food truck go to the burrow. Apparently, this is done on the police side. The police is handling this part being that it's a food truck. Who handles the stands, the food stands? So, it it's a two-part operation. An event comes in to Pam on the piece on the police side right now and event requests. Different things get passed on to the coach department. Food trucks is one of them. Oh Jesus. But no one's doing anything with the food stands. Yeah. Nothing has been done with food stands and what

like church setting up stands that nothing. Yeah. That's regulated already. But the food trucks are mobile. Right. Right. Stay where they are. Right.

Churches. It gets really hairy going down that road because food truck a food truck even though it's mobile it's their business whereas a lot of your stands or churches and that only one you can you might get excited for right well yeah but I mean there's I know there's many like during parades, you would all we would always see just random people selling baked goods and stuff. It's not necessarily from a surf safe kitchen. I mean,

barbecues, too. Like the down at barbecue, same thing. The festival down at uh down at River Park u one of the churches selling selling food. All the all those different things are donated by different people from their private kitchens, right? Yeah, that's true. I don't I agree. That's what I say. But know that's that's what I was trying to say when you were saying it gets really you really you're walking a fine line there because again just because these are mobile food trucks. It is their business. That is their

that's their income. Whereas the churches and and the fire company barbecues and people set up stands like that at Christmas and selling cookies and that that's more of a a fundraising effort, shall we say? I mean, you can you can we can we can go down that path, but boy, it's going to get ugly. I think we should table this until or whomever gets together with Pam and creates a new form. Well, they're not doing the more that's staged. Well, yeah, but yeah, it

Yeah, I think I don't know if because we're already saying that we want to go back and make some changes. So, maybe at this point it is better to just table it until the next workshop meeting because I don't know if there's much more to discuss, I suppose, on it currently until we see another version. Yeah, Pam, I'm gonna rework it and then I'll email it to you. Okay. But it it it'll probably it'll be later this week. So So at this point, is there anything in force that when these events start taking place that we have something

technically? Technically, we have this form here, but it's not ordinance. It's not enforceable. I mean, we we collect the information, but if they don't submit the information, there's no one checking to make sure that the people that set up are the ones that that they all have filled out this and but they had to come in and pay the fee and pick up the permit. Not with an event. Not with an event. Not with event. With an event, the person holding the event gets them all together and then brings them all in a package. Well, this this is a complicated thing more than I saw it. Yeah, you're smart to sit down and redo it. I'll I'll go with the next truck.

If a truck wants to come in and just set up, they'd have to go through the same facilities use request. Yeah. And then they have Well, my question is, do they have any rules they have to follow? Oh, exactly. Until you get this in where you want it. Yeah. Thank.

All right. So, we'll deal with this to the next uh next next month's work session. Single trash hole. So, the reason I put this on here was three months ago, Mayor Looks brought this up as a comment. council never agreed or decided to do anything with this at this point. It's been at least 15 years this has been discussed. This was the just office. I'm talking about this city council has not agreed to do anything. Okay.

So my question is do we want to take this into consideration as a council? Meaning, do we want to direct staff to put together an RFP so that we can get prices and you know proposals? Well, I would think we'd have to create we'd have to create an ordinance still. An ordinance. Absolutely have to create an ordinance. Well, we don't want to create an ordinance until we know we're we're doing it. Right. Right. But you can't submit for bids if you're not going to go. I I made a list of just discussion points, you know, based upon what we had briefly at the last meeting. But, you know, again, like that's what I said at that meeting.

You know, I didn't cover them all, but I said at that meeting, if it's council's desire to pursue it, then let's then let's go forward with drafting an ordinance and and then after the ordinance, let's, you know, go with the RFP. But if it's not council's slavery to pursue it, then let's not waste any more time on because there's other things legislation to put their time and effort into. Right.

Yeah. So, generally I know there were a lot of comments at the last meeting. I was able to listen to the the live stream. I didn't see exactly how many people were there, but um I know that since I posted online asking for opinions, there have been two people reaching out that have been positive towards it and about 26 that are not interested in doing single hauler trash. Um now that is without us going through and sort of talking about what are the tangible benefits that we're going to see from it currently. Um, so I do think whether I you know there are there's a lot of things to consider. I would like if you don't mind, Kelly, if you want to start by going through that discussion point list that you put together.

Sure. Sure. Before you get into that, is this something council wants to pursue? I think it's worth having this discussion at the workshop to at the very least see, you know, what are the potential benefits and what are the potential issues. I think it helps you decide whether make a better choice rather than oh well my neighbor says we shouldn't do it. I mean I think you need to make as with any decision we make over you need to make it a an educated choice made upon what you information you're given. So my question is of the 26 people that say no

do any of them have a reason other than don't take my choice away? So, there were a couple things that were brought up to me. Um, one of the more common ones was the how do we handle, you know, the different needs of a an individual house. Not just how much trash do they need picked up, how much recycling did they need picked up, but also this was apparently an issue in another municipality of some people were only able to take their trash out the back. Some people were only able to take it out the front. However, with a single hauler, you don't want people you don't want it to be going up the alley and the street. So, you usually require one or the other.

And while that would be something that you could just call and discuss with your hauler, hey, can you pick it up through the alley? That's not necessarily the same option through single hauler um just because of the whole point is to reduce the road travel if you put in the RFP. Yes, it could be included in the RFPs. That's one reason I want to go through all this is because I want to make sure that even if we decide we want to go through with this that we have all of the issues on our radar of potential problems that we could have so we get those included. Um but yeah, the uh bulk pickup was another one that I've seen um people asking like can we call in a different bulk pickup? Now, you included it here in the points that

um you know, usually there would be some sort of uh what did you exactly say? Yeah. Nonapproved contract hauler for special pickups must be pre-approved by the burrow. Um so that would be, you know, larger items or dumpsters that would be placed in people's driveways. Dumpers.

Yeah. Um I want to say there was another one that I saw here. What was it? Um, it'll take me a second to find it, but that yeah, it's it was a lot of I like my trash hauler. I'd pay a low rate. I don't want to switch. And so that's why I do want to have this discussion because if we can if we do get the information together and be like, wow, this could save a lot of money and it could be easier. We need to be able to present that to people just to say like but also if we come up with the numbers and actually it's barely going to save anyone more than like $10 every couple months. I don't know if it's going to be worth the administrative effort to even go through doing the RFP, doing an ordinance, and then administering the switch over. You know,

I'll be honest from with everybody in this room, a lot of people in my neighbors and people I know around town I've talked to about this over the years. You know, first of all, let's get one thing straight. The burls get any financial benefit from this at all. Period. None. In my book, we're not even handling sending you your trash bill. That's up to whatever hauler would be chosen to RFP. So, that financial part to me goes away. Hopefully, by having the entire bureau under one, you I'm just saying it's worked in the past at other places. I don't see why it couldn't work here, but you you get economies of scale. you get a better price. Not saying everybody's going to get a better price, but in the end, there's going to be some that are going to get higher, some that are going to get lower, but in the end, you get a cost and hopefully you get and you get, you know, say you you get a three-year contract, you've got a stabilized price. I know for three years, this is what I'm going to pay. It's not going to go up. So for me, the whole point of the biggest benefit of going to a single trash hauler is to deal with the issues that having multiple trash haulers bring to this burl that everybody quote unquote, there's a better word for it, complains about, but nobody has a solution to it. Like I said, you could have it's a Tuesday and on my on Wednesday. I know my street there's three, four, three, four haulers go up the same street. That's three, four trucks beating up that street every week. Okay. Three or four trucks go up the street. There's trash in the street. Okay.

Who dropped it? Because I I I said to a guy, I said, "Okay." I said, "Well, I'll do an exercise for you. I'm going to give you everybody a candy bar in this room." Okay. We're all going to open it. So, one of us is going to throw the paper on the floor. You go out of the room, you come back in and you tell me which one of us threw the paper on the floor. I don't. Unless you have a a video of it or a camera, somebody has a picture of it. You don't. So, you know, if if we don't have something in place to to do that for enforcement, you can't keep coming in here complaining about there's trash on my street. Well, who do we charge for? Uh I don't know if this that's just one of the minor problems that come out. Absolutely. It's like me.

I'm talking about right after a trash order right and we're not doing the whole town my street today and spill a bunch of stuff out of the back of that truck the whole way up the whole way up Ninth Street. Quick quick question and I don't know if it's been answered or not. So are we making this uh looking at this ordinance for just our residential parcels? What do we do with our commercial industry industrial parcels? Typically, typically a single hauler only does residential

um and only from with um they they typically have for larger parcel or for like say a big apartment building, there's generally a cut off as to how many units. like if it's under x number of units, it's still considered in the residential and it would be um subject to this versus, you know, a larger building. And that's usually that there's usually some cut off in the RFP.

Let's let's take for example um Grenell. Um are we requiring them to get in line with um that? Right. So that's what I'm asking you. So we're going to there's going to be exemptions for um some industrial and commercial as when we look at the ordinance because at the end of the day we're going to be the residents are going to be eating those costs for you know those those larger part parcels. So I think no I'm saying if we if they were lumped in together they would be but I think there should be some exclusion. Oh yeah are just as residential. Yeah. I mean some municipalities do it.

Oh yeah. lump them all in so their residents eat those costs for those industrial parcels. But I think we should have that separation. Uh then we can keep those costs down there. Do you care if I read what I put together? No,

I mean this just something food for thought for people to really think about. So I put a list together some real quick. Uh pros potential costsaving and stable rates to residences due to contracted services. a reduction due to the number of residences to be served by a designated holder. So instead of spreading them out over 50, we're using one and we get a again economies of scale. Number two, the biggest thing is for me is standardized services and equipment. We would have pickup zones. I I just said like southeast, southwest, northeast, northwest. uh divide the burrow up in four sections on one assigned day which confines pickup per day to a confined area of the burrow. I would suggest aligning the route of the street sweeper to be in that area as in that zone as well just to follow that street sweeper could see hey what's going on they are dropping track. Second is each residents will receive a hinge to hinge lid to a large size recycle bin. It eliminates setting out of loose bags and small unersiz cans that a lot of people use because they can't afford the big toer and it gets full and their two little cans are full. So they're setting bags out. It's which is against our ordinance. So if everybody's using the same equipment, you know, that's that's one another thing. Uh, one holeer allows enforceable street litter post trash collection since no others are permitted. You'll know who if there's street trash in the street after a truck went through, you'll know who it was. Uh, improved improved haul equipment reduces and eliminates the possibility for spilled refuse during collection. They maintained their equipment. Uh reduction in the number of haulers haulers reduces wear and tear on federal streets and reduction in number of haulers reduces traffic congestion and noise pollution. We all know driving up down uh Walnut Street with three or four trash trucks are on the street and they're moving and

they don't want you to get in their way. They expect you to just sit and wait. I put another section I put other concerns. Uh use of the non non-approved contracted hauler for special pickups must be preapproved by the bureau i.e. large items or roll off dumpsters by residences. Uh second would be pick up of refues at large multi- apartment facilities that use on-site dumpsters. So you're talking like the highrises. You're talking wagon merch. They have 30, 40, 50 units. They're they're probably contracting with their own person. I would say that would be outside of this as well. Uh so three not intended for commercial use for construction projects, factories, etc. uh the need for a designated hauler to have equipment that can navigate avenues in the bureau for pickup of trash at these properties because we have houses that are on the avenues. Their trash got to get picked up and so it would allow and also allow uh pick up the rear of the properties with that have limited or no street access for their trash and recycling cans. uh creation of a single holder ordinance service standards and penalties for non-compliance by property owners and by haulers for trash removal contracted services which would include an opt out. So that's basically the RFP uh management of the collection of payment for said services and responsibility of the hauler. We're not billing you, they are. and responsibility for for performance of the haulers contracted service is on the burough codes department through daily drive-th through designated areas and through citizen complaint process hopefully and for cons I just have you know it's possibility that some people get increase in cost and two you do lose the loss of the individual consumer choice so those that's that's as many things as I can think of anybody wants to add

anything love to hear One thing when when we went to the municipal breakfast with Representative Miller, we had a rousing discussion with some of our neighboring uh municipalities and something I didn't think about until we talked to them was if we are going to offer an opt out, which I would suggest that we do, I would advocate for that because people that feel strongly we should allow allow them to opt out. They have to make the decision to opt out before we issue the RFP because RF our RFP has to say how many you know how many units

that so we can't so you we can't allow people to say I'll wait and see how much it is and then decide if I'm going to opt out. If they're going to opt out, they need to make the decision before we issue the RFP because we have to know how many units we're putting in the RFP. Was the decision when they don't know how much it costs? That's what you're taking. That's a chance you take. But but how can how can we expect a contractor to give us a good price if they don't know how many units they're picking up?

Right. If if you're that if you're that adamant about I want to keep my hall and I want to keep my choice, pay for it. What I mean the rousing discussion was

the rousing discussion was this. There is there is a sitting member of the West Hemfield Township Board of Commissioners. He is a He is a He is on the board of commissioners. He exercised his opt out. He is paying $20 a quarter more for his opt out than what every everyone else is paying. But it was important to him to have that choice. So he is paying $20 a quarter more just so he can say he has that choice. Did most of the municipalities that you spoke with have an opt out option?

Yes. So, and every one of them said it's important to do it before because otherwise if you do it after you put that RFP in jeopardy because if you say we have 10,000 units and a 100 people opt out after the fact you're only giving 99,00 units. That's a big difference. And then the bureau would have to make up that would have to make up the difference of that cost. But doesn't that defeat the whole purpose? Exactly.

Well, to me, it helps us define it, too, though. Let's see. No, let me think. So, we have say we have 4,200 residences and we we go through this process and we have 2,000 residents come back and say, I want to opt out. Then that gives us sit there and say, well, hell, we're only looking at doing this for 50% of the bureau. Is it worth doing? And then we then we have the information we need to say, you all basically said you didn't want this done. with 85% are okay with it and only 15 opt out down out you allow them to opt out because 15% you're still going to have the same traffic flow of tri structure everything else I personally

don't like the opt out but what I what I've researched that's that's what this is based on most of them have you know how many residences in westfield westfield township has about the same number of units Do you know how many of them have opted out? 12. But that's that's additional trucks. They're going anywhere. They're going to come up the streets. Yeah. It's not about the trash that's getting picked up. It's how many trucks and stuff are going up and down the streets, right? And what day is it going up and down and who's responsible for dumping the trash on the street? I will say

somebody else out, we no longer have control. Why trash getting picked up? So I I was reached out to by Susan Warby uh previously an administrator for West Lamper Township during who handled the single hauler trash. Um she did mention to me that one thing that they had to do where they did have the opt out was they had to provide a monthly pay or a quarterly paid bill to show that they had a trash hauler. And while that did cover some of it, it also then created a ton of stress on the staff to maintain that. Personally, in my opinion, I feel like if we do go this route, I would say that we should not have an opt- out process.

Um because again, that's could potentially defeat part of the point and some some of the benefit of actually having this system in place. But I would also want to make sure that before we get to the RFP process, we do everything that we can to make sure everybody understands the potential benefits of the thing first and let people get their opinions out there so we have that process of you know public feedback like here in council and that's why I didn't put this under pros. Yeah, that's why I put under other concerns because right

even though I'm not for it maybe that's what it takes. I don't know but you know and and opt out also to me would also be if we if we do go down to path we get to the point where we are doing this we are doing an RFP we do need to have something in the RP that allows us to opt out of whatever contract we have with ABC hauler if there are continued profit on social security yes I think just went off again not us. Yeah, it's not us. Heather, do you know? No, no, I mean it's not us on the Do you know

if that's who's not pay for traffic or our ordinance is everybody if we get made aware of it they are they are dealt with through the codes department. What what was her question? Yeah. Um she asked, "What happens if people don't currently have PE uh tra a trash hauler at all?" I I can address that if we get my time here. Sorry for a tweet. Well, from the very beginning before you start talking about it,

I just want to know why you're trying to fix something that's not broke. Well, everybody, what's not broke about it? Trash being on the street. What's not broke about it? The fact that there's two or three trucks when they went up the street, there's trash all over the street. Why isn't our police department taking care of that? We have cars. They have boots or shoes that we buy them. They have bicycles they can ride. They need to get out and sight these people and follow the trucks around town. Absolutely. You have to see them. They know when they're coming. You have to see them. Isn't that their job? I mean, just because you come upon it doesn't mean you can assume who did it.

Like I said, that's my point. That's my biggest problem with it. You some people see it.

And by all means, go out and take a video of it and send it to the girls so we have it. I mean, I I got a kick out of the mayor saying about so many trucks at one time on the street. Come on. They're going to be out there going to be picking up. But you got to regulate that somehow. There got to be some way you can say this is your day in town. That's your day in town. The burough has never sat down and done that. I need to do that. Now, now you're going to put on a lot of burdens on elderly people. I'm elderly. I never had a trash hauler in the last 50 years. I still don't have a trash haul. I have an incinerator in rice. I can take a a bag of stuff over there and put it in the incinerator. When I was working, I would take a bag or two to work. I don't need a trash hauler. Now, you're going to put that onto somebody on a fixed income. And I'm not the only one. There's a lot of people that don't have it.

I heard you say, I think uh I think it was you. I could be wrong, Heather, but you said every uh uh the departments, what do you call them? Every one of them has to have a trash. If you have a license, you got to have a trash. I didn't say didn't hear you say nothing about the private houses. What's what's what's the ruling on this? It's in our code that everyone has to have a trash hauler. If what? Every every one has to have a trash hauler. Every residence has to have a trash hauler at this point. Yes, that's what's in our code. Okay. Well, I remember when this switched over, I remember one of our

It is really a lot of people board members saying that, well, my mother only has a bag of trash. I didn't fair that she's got to pay this. But Frank,

I believe me, I heard I can tell you who it was, but I'm not going to mention it on the floor. But there there are I mean and again that's and it wasn't discussed enough but that's something you work in the RFP there are a lot of the contracts that are out there I've seen if you have elderly people that look I only get one bag of trash a week they're not going to charge you amount you can work out within the RFP you know you can define who who who these people are that you know the elderly people mostly that hardly I mean myself I'll be honest with you my my son lives with me okay So, his his kids come and say, "Well, every other week, every other week, I got two trash cans full." When they're not there, I got a half a trash can.

I'll tell you how that works, Kelly. I'll tell you how that works. If you say it's going to work like that, you're wrong. What's going to happen? These elderly people are going to know somebody down here in the Bura Burough Hall, call down, and oh, hey, we'll take care of that. So, some official or somebody in here is going to tell them, "Hey, don't charge them for that. You only got one bag of trash. This is how it gets I'm not a conspiracy theorist. So, you know, enforcement is because we just had you have to look at that.

I was on a a zoning a code somebody got a quick ticket and came in to challenge and that was that dealt with trash on the site. So, it is dealt with. But I I'm to the point it's not broken and it don't need fixed because the mayor brought it up and he's that interested that he's not in here tonight. I wanted to hear his side of it. Where's he at?

He is down at Columbia Crossing because the the Chesapeake Bay um commission is having a reception down there. I stopped down before I came up here. There are uh state officials that came down um that are that are down there. you know, talking about the Chesapeake Bay and the and the uh watershed. So, in other words, he's hobnob. Is that the word you would use? We're not going to say that. Um, if if you were all here and you're so interested in this, how many units I guess a unit would be one household. How many of them do we have in the B? Believe it's a little bit over 4,000. It's like

if you include like like somebody has a house and has three apartments or three each apartment being a separate unit. I think it's around 4,200 including those. So you count including those each apartment as a unit. Yes. Okay. Person three different parts have three different people living there. That's three different bills. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. I just moved that place the the property owner. Right. Right. It's property owner shop. It's property owner shop. Right. I'm just saying, but that's three different people responsible for it. So, whatever you want to call it. So, a guy has the property gets the bill has a five unit apartment. Does he have a commercial thing putting that up?

We would work that out before we get to the RFP process of what that sort of limit is as far as how many would need to be within one building before it just becomes, you know, a sort of industrial uh, you know, separate um trash pickup. Well, I hope don't come to that, but that's just my opinion. But I just I let you I'm being honest with you. I I believe me, I ain't have a trash hauler since I think I lived down on Second Street. I take care of my own. Thank you.

I didn't think I was that much shorter than Frank. So last at the council meeting, I asked what are the pain points around trash in the burrow? And I heard trucks in town every day. Uh accountability to the haulers for trash being left laid behind. Um we'd like to have consistency in the receptacles that trash is being picked up in, i.e. the toers and the recycling bins. um having a central provider to address issues um potentially better pricing for the residents of the burrow. There were just a couple of the points. So, like I always try to do my own due diligence and I would suggest that each member of this council do their due diligence because like the food truck ordinance, this topic has many layers and more tentacles than you think. Um, so just some points. I'll kind of take Kelly's approach. Some of the things that you need to consider and I would suggest that you call in different meetings with some of the top single hauler vendors that you think you might be looking to do business with. long before you're thinking about putting an RFP together and have them talk to you about the issues that you're trying to solve for pricing. How do they develop their pricing? Does it include dumping? Does

it include the pickup? If there are surges in g prices, am I locked in? Are there you know should we consider provisions within the contract to uh lower the prices if fuel prices come down etc. So these are just things that you want to understand how they do it and what are they willing to do to work with you before you even put an RFP together. It will help you put your RFP together. So one of the questions was around the res residual waste being left behind after the collection. Policing that is virtually impossible. Large haulers are more than likely to only those who will be able to provide service under a single hauler relationship and do not have the customer service approach that small haulers provide. And that frankly we in the burrow have been spoiled by with the local haulers that we've had in the past.

You know, it's like anything. The bigger you get, the less detail that you're that's paid attention to the small things. They bid the job based on manh hours. Getting in and getting out is their number one priority. Many times during manpower shortages, they use temp services to backfill to make sure they have someone on the back of that truck. There's no way to consistently provide higher levels of service under those conditions. Considering a onehauler system, hoping to remediate residual waste situations is truly unrealistic. It all comes down to the work ethic and the training that that individual on the back of that truck has.

Yeah.

All of those trucks that are coming into the burrow now have camera systems on the back. So, if you have an issue with a hauler, you call them and make them pull the footage from those trucks on that route in that block and make them tell you, "Yes, that was our driver that that and truck that dropped that trash." You can get to that information. Is it going to take time and effort? Yes. But it will get you the answers that you want. If you don't get it, then is that a holler that you want to deal with moving forward? Something to think about. Using the same container raises other questions. What size will accommodate however many bags the contract will pick up? Consideration has to be given that not all folks will be able to manage a large can. circumstances may be present to prevent taking the can to the rear of the property or not having the room to store a large container. I mean, we have many properties in Colombia. Just think about Plain Street as you're going down towards Wagon Works. How is any one of those residents going to get a tower from that second story level down to the pavement? They're already have to lined up across the front walls of those properties. Now, those toers are not supposed to be there according to current burrow ordinance, but they are. They have no alternative. There's no pickup available in that back alley. That will be an opt- out situation that you have to consider.

Many people in this burrow and it's been talked about already tonight. Let's say that you would say that you know your contract would cover a four bag limit. Many people one bag, half a bag, no bags. Put it in the neighbor's trash can because they said you don't have to get a trash. Just stick it over in mine. I've done that for my neighbor when she lived there. Um, so the pricing, contrary to what I thought I heard earlier, I don't believe is as prevalent as it you might think it is in these contracts. One price. There's generally not separate pricing for lower service.

Yeah, that's one thing. So, it's one price. So whether you're putting out a half a bag every week or four bags every week, everyone's paying the same price. I'm not understand. I'm not paid. I pay by the toer. I don't pay they'll count how many bags I No, but you're they they call it a bag service. It's a bag service. So you probably have a 95 gallon to the big one. A lot of bags. A big one. And you can put six, seven, eight bags in there depending on what you have in it. I get more than eight, that's for sure. Yeah, don't give me mine.

Columbia Burough already has an ordinance requiring the landlord to provide service for tenants. Most landlords incorporate it into their monthly rent. This ordinance was put in place to protect the provider from the transient resident who accumulates a bill for service and slips out during the night without paying. Landlords can withhold security deposit monies to ensure trash is removed and paid for. The bro is already policing landlords to cover trash service. If I recall, it is part of the annual registration process with the bureau that the landlord has to say Johnny is my trash hauler for my properties. Um the problem that has historically existed is the landlord meets the requirement pro by providing service but not necessarily the service level that is needed for the number of tenants in the unit.

For example, a one bag service for a family of five. So, the landlord is paying the least amount they can right now, but it's not equating to the amount of trash that's coming out for that tenant. So, the trash starts to accumulate, thereby creating another issue. Um, the idea of dividing the burrow into quadrants, one thing that I heard was we have trash trucks in the burrow every single day of the week. By dividing it into quadrants, you're going to have trash shrubs in the burrow every day of the week.

We don't have four of them at the same time. It's the only difference. If we have if we have if the burrow has 60,000 pounds of trash to be picked up on a weekly basis and you divide that into four quadrants, you're still going to need more than one truck to get 15,000 pounds of trash out of that quadrant. So, it's going to mean multiple trucks likely

on the on those days to get that trash up even in quadrants. Uh right now, I think the bureau's ordinance does say that residential trash is picked up Monday through Thursday and commercial trash is picked up on Fridays. That's still correct. I don't know. I I'd have to look. I know the residential is Monday through Thursday. Yeah. And I think commercial was set aside for Fridays.

Um a single h a single hauler only solves some issues but raises others. It does eliminate free enterprise for the little guy as they essentially don't have the means to meet the necessary requirements of a municipal contract. And frankly, there aren't that many little guys out there anymore. I think right now in the burrow you have pen waste waste management which doesn't have many stops in Columbia anymore. Uh goods caller and I think the little Willy shell cassella is another one. There's actually more than what you think. AJ Benski. Not only that, AJ Binski. I see.

But he's bought out. He's bought out by the trucks might be different, but they're all under some conglomerate of some type. I think Goods brought out Valencia, but I mean, you see Gamby's truck running around. He's under he's under goods. So, even though you might be seeing different trucks, doesn't mean that they're different haulers. Well, and the thing is, you know, we have in our ordinance, you have to pick from one of these or approved list. The approved list. Yes. Well, if you look at our approved list now, goods isn't on there. I don't think callers on there. Like, there's a bunch that we see in town that aren't even on that list. So, who is contacting those haulers and letting them know that they need to register with the burrow,

right?

Enforcement issue. You know, clean up the list. That doesn't sound like a too difficult task. You all seem to like you know who the c who the haulers are coming around the burrow. Um you know in closing if you're going to be going down the route of a single hauler do your due diligence with these potential candidates in advance. You're not making any promises. You're just asking questions. You're trying to get educated. And guess what? what they might be doing in West Hefield or Lamper, you know, West Lamp Peter Township or somewhere else may not fit what we're doing here. Colombia Burrow is more aligned with what's h what happens in Lancaster City. We see it all the time. Fire service, police, trash, it's all the same. We have the same problems as what Lancaster City has. So, it would seem to me that we should do the due diligence, get the questions answered, and don't let them give you fluff answers. Push them for the truth. There are many people that can help put an RFP together that will protect the burrow. And one one thing I wanted to mention, there was a a comment made about if you're going to allow an opt out, you have to know who's going to opt out before you send out the RFP. I don't think that that's entirely true. And this is something you could talk to the haulers about. You could ask them if they would consider in their RFP, if they would respond to an RFP that had a provision in it that said you would be awarded this contract if you um received up to 60% of the residents. If 40% opted out, but you were still going to get 66 or 60% of that 4,200, you know, would you still take the deal?

Would you respond to the RFT? Good point. That's a good way to look at it. Yeah, I actually have RFPs from Lancaster right here on my screen right now and and three or four others. So, they're they're all a little different, but actually helps, right? Well, yes, because they want the they want the single hauler. So, you have to be careful there, too, because there there's underlying um I don't want to say agendas, but there's underlying reasons why they want to singlehaul it.

Um tags for large items would have to be through the burrow. If you wanted to um you know, you could think about putting in a couple 40 yard boxes somewhere throughout the burrow and just have people bring their trash there if they wanted to app out. Something else you need to think about too is in your contract, what does the quarterly billing include? That does include picking up the driver, the truck, the maintenance, the fuel, and the dumping fees. Yes. Yes. We want dumping included.

Dumping has to be included because I can tell you Colia Burrow generates more trash than you can imagine comparatively. How is it Lancaster City? Well, Lancaster City's obviously much larger, but other ways. There was one there was one hauler in Colombia on a residential pickup day was picking up over 30,000 pounds. One hauler. 30,000bs one day. Now, understand they start at 4:30. They're out of Columbia before 9:30.

Yeah. But I mean that hauler had good employees. They had high expectations. They gave the personal service. When your cans were empty, they were put back where they found them, lids attached. You're not going to get that service. I mean, your expect your service level expectations. I'm not going to say you shouldn't shoot for them to be high, but I wouldn't expect them to realistically be met. Well, they're not being met now. No.

And to and to think that, okay, now that we have, you know, XYZ company as our single hauler, we can go to them and say, okay, you know, you're the only hauler in Colombia, we know you're the one that left that trap trash. What are the repercussions? Yeah, you can. They're not going to send somebody back out to get it. I can assure you. That's true. That's it. Mary, you're in favor. Sorry. Thank you. You're in favor.

She's speechless. Like, what? I should very touchy subject. Obviously, uh, prior weeks, prior months that I have addressed the council on this issue, when I used the term opt out, I was not talking about individual residents opting out. I was referring to right

Columbia Burrow re not reigging but pulling the service contract from them if the service doesn't meet standards that we require. Not that we asked for that we require to have an individual opt out. Wow. Again, you're going to have multiple trucks. If I'm one of the 2,000 that do have the single hauler and 2,200 don't, I can all but guarantee you I'm going to be paying more than what I am currently. If we have 4,000, 200 opt out, great. We all win. Again, that's to me, I'm not dead set on this, but based on what you had said, Kelly, that was the overwhelming concern of the people that I talked to online and in person. It was how much is the burrow going to take off the top and add to my bill? As long as it's transparent and what you're saying is correct,

I don't see how we can't all win in this situation. I really don't. Mayor Lutz said about Mountville paying 72 a quarter. Okay, maybe that's a year too old. I don't know when that contract was uh negotiated.

Okay, 25 just last year then. I don't think there's a single person in this room that's paying anywhere close to $72. In my discussions, the lowest I have been able to find I think I might be the lowest at 99. I've had 104, I've had 106, 110, 120, 130, 140, and $164.50 from one person told me that. And I know that's accurate because he showed me a picture of it and he sent it to me. So

again, do due diligence like this lady had said, but I don't see how it can't be a win-win if it's handled properly.

I just wanted to make two more clarifying statements. Um there was a mention about uh you know we would insist that the hauler does the billing. Generally that is not the case municipality bills in the 23 um municipalities in Lancaster County out of the 67 or however many we have um the majority of them are billing. They either do it as part of they add it to their water or sewer bill which we don't do. So that would mean we have to have authority added to your taxes. Exactly. We have to have authority. It would be staff and all that.

Um and the other point was um you know if you really really want to know what the citizens want, consider putting this on a referendum on the ballot. Yeah, I was I had mentioned that to you a few weeks ago. It's because I researched that and in Pennsylvania the municipalities it I don't know I I don't remember the exact thing can be done but it's a headache it no it I mean there are certain things that can be put on there is referendum it's very restrictive

yeah um I just want to be clear on the optin out I heard it said that before you do the RSP find out how many people want to opt out when you say opt out means they're saying I don't want to go with that. I'm correct. Okay. So, how can you let them do that if there's a a clause in our ordinance that says they have to have a a trash hauler? If they opt out, do they have to show you then who they're getting? Yeah. Okay. They would have to prove they had trash.

Yeah. And along with that, I I know a party that has uh it's out two elderly people and they have three trash bins out, but in their backyard, I mean, it's just so bad. I see cats going in and out all the time. Trash, cardboard, um things that should be going to the trash. So, so you're not going to get everything that needs to go to that trash site. But anyway, it's uh it's good to talk about this. I'm glad to hear this. Thank you. I did want to bring up something that uh Scott, you were talking about prices. Um Kelly did send over some general prices uh for some other municipalities over the last five years.

Yeah, over the last five years. Uh I did want to bring show say a couple of them. So for instance, I I'll just say my bill is 140 a quarter. Um so about 560 a year. That's too much. Um, yeah, for two people. No, we have four people. Oh, four people.

Four adults. Um, but so in comparison, 2023 Lancaster City was $320 a year um compared comparatively um for residents when switching to single hauler. Mountville 260, West Hempfield 290, um, Rafo 300. So, just to give a general idea, it is I know I'm on the high end, you know, but even compared to Scots at 99, that's still an average reduction of about $100 per year. Um, so I just wanted to put some of that into perspective for everybody so we were on the same page as far as potential savings, what we could see on average. No, the those prices I just listed were from single hauler municipalities and what people are paying in the single hauler system.

That does include recycling. The only one that didn't was Epha, which separates them into two different ones for some reason. And that's that was$2.49 for waste and 129 for recycling. The rest of them are combined. Mount Joy separates. Oh, Burrow and Township. Yeah, burrow and township are separate, but not recycling waste. When they get the go to the solid waste authority and they're going to say, "Tell me how much trash was dumped out for Columbia." They track that. Sure. They have to do their part. Base their pricing on the tonnage. Yeah.

That's coming out of this bur. So, comparatively speaking, you know, those rates are good, but they may not be as Yeah. 100% what comes out of this world? Is this something council far to move forward? What

if we want to do the research? That's what I'm saying. Either guys here today.

Yeah. I think one thing I brought up, my opinion was a few weeks ago is it is regardless like now that we've gotten into it and having these discussions, it's a significant undertaking and we have enough stuff on our plate this year as far as like we have a huge budget gap. We have, you know, we're we're short on some of our services because our staffing is short staffed. We need to I think I I was of the opinion at the time that I think that we need we have enough stuff going on between council and staff and everything else that I don't know if we want to add the complexity that this is going to require to do it well on top of everything else this year. That's not saying that I don't think it could be done in the future correctly, but I think that between doing it well and communicating it well to the residents, that's going to be a much bigger undertaking than just putting together an ordinance and an RFP and sending it out.

Well, not only that, but um it would it would um I just lost my train.

I think I was in the same boat. I think I was fairly supportive a couple weeks ago when we first opened this up to kick it around. Um, but my opinion after hearing citizen comments is it's less than tenable at this point. Um, and once again, we do as Councilman Byer says, but there's a lot of things on the plate that seem to be needing priority at this point. So my opinion would be this would be some maybe something down the road, but I would um personally vote no after hearing the comments of this evening, the people that uh are concerned about it.

Yeah. And I was concerned when when she said that um a lot of the places don't do the billing that the billing would have to be done out of here and our staff, we don't want to put that on them at this. That'd be an additional cost. We have to find somewhere either try to partner with the water company or do it here. And that's that's included with your tax bill. Every place I lived before here, it was part of the tax bill. Right. We have it for years. What's that point? You just tell me you're adding the tax bill on it. You just add the tax bill onto it.

Yes. Yes, we did. Right. I just wanted to thank Mary Baringer because she provided more information than I've heard from anybody and it seemed, you know, very valid and and useful. So, I applaud her for for coming here tonight and speaking. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Joanne. I'm a No. I don't see the point yet. I'm fine with that. I agree with Ethan that now is not the right time. I agree, too. That's how I feel. Yeah. It'll never be the right time to call me. It's just

15 years. I've heard the same stuff for 15 years. It's never going to be the right time. That's true. Just drop it. If we have a if we have a full staff. No, I've heard we've had full staff. It's a staff change. This has been issues 15 years ago. It was a staffing issue. We I've heard this conversation so many times. It's just like at some point we just need to just say just drop it. That's fine. Put it in bed. All right.

Moving on. Finance. Uh councilwoman Keezy as we talked about the council room audio video system. I know manager primer has some input on this but go ahead. Let him he can go first. AV system. You got some numbers. That's what I'm looking.

I'm not quite sure what you're proposing, but I will say that. And Wilson, if you want to step up as well. Uh Wilson and Paula actually actually did uh an analysis, if you will. Uh they looked into the current system. Uh I do acknowledge that we had some issues uh meeting or two ago. uh that was in an attempt to prepare a second computer uh in the event that we have had a problem. Uh there was a setting issue there but otherwise you know the experiment went well. So I would say at this point in time I I don't see value in uh going through the process of getting more different vendors in spending additional money. I think if you uh give us the opportunity to continue to work out the kinks, I'm confident that we can uh you know have a system that's going to be uh free of any issues.

That was my point to spend money on an additional service to get a brand new camera system. When we were made aware like at our last meeting, how many people really watch it? And I did some research and look, there's not a whole lot of people that actually watch the lives. Less than 200 people. We have a lot more people than that here in the burrow. So to say that we should replace that or do anything with it just doesn't really

I just see how many views are on the meeting. I don't know how many people were trying to watch it when it was live streaming. When you go on and you look, it tells you exactly how many views have been made to that particular video. Right. Right. I think so too. But that's a much bigger number. I would agree that's not right. But that's a much bigger number than when it's just simple meetings and there aren't bigger issues that are going on for because those are a lot less people watching them. Currently there are 16 people watching,

right? Um, and I do think I I was speaking to somebody from LNP that uses the live stream primarily to do their reporting. Um, they said that out of the options out of the other municipalities, Colombia currently has one of the best systems. Now, that's more of I think a slight on the other municipalities and the inconsistencies there, but I do think that what you're getting at is you there's not necessarily a humongous number of people that can justify a couple thousand expense to upgrade or change the system. Frank,

I I'm just I guess upset or whatever you want to call it as as to when we had something that didn't work for so long, we kept just trying to get it fixed or or Wilson worked on it or somebody else worked on it. Why didn't we just say right then and there either scrap it this I'm going back maybe two, three years. I don't know how long this has been going on. And I hear it when it doesn't work or when threequarters way through it, it screeches. That's when the people tell me the next day, Frank, what the hell happened with that system? Why don't they change it? Why don't they do this, do that? I said, I'm not in charge. I But I just wonder why we keep trying to to fool with this. And if we had we had vehicles that didn't work, we're going to trade them in. We're going to do something with it. But we keep going. And how much did we spend over the time? So what you're saying now, you're saying now we're not going to do nothing with it. Is that what I understand?

Right. Jack is saying that they've done some things and worked on some things to improve the live streaming and you think it's it's pretty well fixed. I I think we're fine now, Frank. It doesn't mean there isn't going to be issues sometime in the future, but um we've had the technician in here multiple times. I think the one day uh you were in here, so you saw him and uh we feel things are in a good place and we have a a backup as well, backup computer that we can use in the event there's a problem. Is it working tonight? It is working. Yes.

All right. It goes back to what me and Sharon brought up. Why does it work for the committee meetings and some of the other meetings? Why is it always our meeting that it doesn't work? Could it get to the point that when it don't work that you cancel the meeting? No. Yeah. I asked I asked twice now. One time we delayed it. One time we did cancel it. Yeah. And one time we delayed it. And you cancelled the meeting. Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember that. Yeah. I ask every every time we have issues I ask what the council wants to do and they agreed or not. Well, last time we had that big crowd. It was just Oh, so they they wanted to Okay. meeting.

I just wanted to say that since the taxpayers paid for the system in the first place, we would expect it to work. Second place, I don't care if there's one resident listening. That's one more than, you know, if they want to know what's going on, right?

That's the only way for some people. There are families that can't sit through two or threehour meetings when they have kids at home or they have events. They depend on that. And I think it's a service we deserve as taxpayers. That's one part of this. The other part was the LMP. Uh, I will say it's it's a shame that they no longer attend in person, but prior to this young man that's doing it now, um, there was a lady doing it and she would have to call and ask me to see if Joe could provide a train a recording

because he often No, Jade does not do that. This was Gail Johnson. Okay. and she would often rely on us when the live stream wasn't working and she couldn't be here because she had another um municipality she was covering at the same time. So, the meetings clashed. So, she would depend on that live stream like the video recording the next day and and be able to write her municipal brief based on that. But, um if it wasn't available and it didn't work, Yeah. she was stuck. And so anyway, I just wanted to throw my two cents in there. Thank you.

Thank you. Anything else on that audio visual? There was no uh finance committee meeting this month, but we did add the McInness BIOS report. Um that tells you the total amount we used so far, how much was loan and how much was grant. Um we do expected some additional minor fees, but that's pretty good to where we're at. uh

when it says an an additional$1 to $150,000 $50,000 an additional cost to complete phase one. Yeah, I thought phase one was completed. Uh some stuff like that. Yeah, there's there's minor punch list items that still be done that couldn't be done. Oh, okay. Thank you for the clarification. And a lot of that's just a safety net. Okay.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's that site. Yes. So this is that what was the total amount for the BIOS originally? It's right around 9,000 or 9 million. 9 million. 9.4 million. Yeah. So this is just what has been submitted currently for the work that was done over the last like you know couple years. Um the rest of it would be made it's in the RFP that it would potentially be made available to the developer um at you know their uh the loan would be then their responsibility.

Yes. Yes. In fact, I was just going to announce I was just going to announce Give me a second chance. Um, tomorrow at 10 o'clock, Jack, you want to give the information out? I certainly can because this is important. So, tomorrow there is a mandatory pre-bid meeting. It will take place uh on April 8th at 10:00 a.m. Anyone who wishes to submit a bid to purchase the McInness property must attend this meeting. The meeting will take place at the McInness site which is at 1020 Manor Street.

I got your BIN number, so you're able to bid Please buy it, Frank. That so I just want to understand this uh page you had up there. Yeah. That's not the total invested though, is it? I mean, from back in the buyers. Yeah. Okay. It's not including like all of our legal fees and engineering and all that. That's Does anybody have a total on? We do have a total. I don't have it with me right Okay. I'm just curious. Thank you.

Excuse me. Not to our knowledge. No, they we we've been there several times since we did the press release. There were several. Well, that's what I I think we did have interest after WGL was there, Fox 43, Central Pen Business Journal contacted us. All right. Community Development. Oh, I have a question on I have a question on um the finance stuff.

There were no finance reports in the packet. Are we gonna The last ones we saw were from January. Um, so I was expecting to see February. Are we going to get them at some point or we'll have those available at the next meeting? Okay,

that was my question. Okay. Community development uh in your packets of zoning planning and hard reports and um councilwoman Cooper asked if she could talk about the homeless sh committee. Um, I'd like to uh put together a committee to work on, excuse me, um, the homeless situation here in Colombia and um to try to come up with some solutions for uh for people to have a day center somewhere, whether it be in town or outskirts of Columbia. I'd like to put together a committee to work on that. So

to research that, right? Like talk through the to research, talk to people, talk with Justin, put together a committee to research everything that we can to come up with a possible solution. So I'm looking for the blessing of council to do that. So this committee would not have any authorization representing but they can go out and do research and finding potential sites. Okay. Is that what you're asking? Yes. I just want to be clear. Yes. And I can talk with Justin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I just if council allows you to create this committee, I don't want you to believe that you can go out representing the burrow and make decisions without council approval. I understand that. Yes, that's all I'm saying. Okay. So, we have met a couple times, actually more than a couple times.

Yeah. uh about this situation and um Councilman Cooper is asking to try and and I guess you'll say motivate stimulate um the process to try and find a new location or um something that's more of a uh suitable suitable because it gives you more options. For example, Justin uh showed us the plans for the Lancaster project they're doing street

and allows for office spaces and other stuff. Um so when he talked about those bills and he gave references of what he's kind of looking for in this area u that's what Jeie is asking for permission to go for. Yeah,

I know one of the issues currently um and pastor maybe you'll you have more information about it um is the inability to house families or children because of the requirements for uh or just not possible at the Dream Center's current location. Um I know that was something that wanted to be addressed at some point is be better if I was on the mic just so yeah um thank you. Um, yeah. Uh, Council Person Cooper, you mentioned you said day center. I think we're talking about an entire shelter. That's new. Yes, excuse me.

An entire shelter. You said day center. I think we're talking about an entire shelter. Um, I w I was u not invited to that meeting. I would like to be present at at more. I think we can help more than we can hinder. Uh, so uh we are talking we've been talking for a while. This conversation started four years ago. Yeah. And then we had a public meeting in here three years ago. Um, and it wasn't about money. It was about finding a suitable location with zoning that works.

Uh, which is, I think, is Justin's primary concern. When we talk to redevelopment, it's our concern, too. Uh, this has been going on a long time. It's hard to do what the things that we want to do at the church if we if this goes on. So, I think it's better for everybody if we try to work together to find a suitable location. And yes, uh Ethan, the the the u housing of of families is is a priority for for us. So you can hear um yeah, there's too many children in transition or experiencing homelessness in Columbia B school district. That's just the beginning of it, but there's a lot more to the whole picture of homelessness and poverty that we need to address together. Yeah.

So, uh Pastor Yes. powers. I believe Ken is asking for us to create like an ad hoc committee where it would include if council members want to be on it, business people, uh, ministry. That's my hope, Eric. Yes. Yeah. Yes. That's ad hoc. I think the word task force has been thrown around. Yeah. And that's fine. We do our job and then then we're dismissed, right? That's basically what we do, basically. Yeah. So, do I have blessing to do that? Yes.

Yeah. And for you just one thing I would ask is that you come back to council with u a plan as far as a scope of what you want to do, right? And then um once you create a committee, you identify those members with council. Okay. So we're all aware of it. That's good. Sounds good. Thank you. Super. Thank you. And if you have meeting days, let us know and stuff. So Oh, yeah. We keep everybody posted. Absolutely. All right.

Uh public works. There's a public works report in your packet. Anything on public works, Jake? Snowballs. Everything running good? Good. Any day now. You have an update on the transmission. Jay, can you just provide an update on the the truck with the transmission? And what was the electrical issue with the other truck? It was actually a module.

Yeah. How much did that end up costing that repair? diagnosed it. Yeah.

And the transmission was the final bill for that. Yeah. Yeah. That came in. I think that was a few. Yeah. 40 4,000 some 14. Sorry. 4,000. The other one was 4,000.

4,000. So, I have a question. Now that yard waste pickup has started and street sweeping has started. Um, just curious what what is the preferred method of handling the sweet gumballs? What? The what?

The sweet gumballs. Like I go like I I I asked this because my aunt has those and in her in her front and I was looking at the driving past the the house at uh Tenth and Tenth and Walnut and they're all there and I'm wondering like does the street sweeper pick those up? Should we be encouraging residents to sweep them up? Do they put them in the bags or not too heavy?

That's why a lot of times Yeah.

My aunt just put out nine bags of them. Jeez, yesterday

Saturdays. Which Saturdays are you available out there that you personally start second or fourth? Go all the way through to And that's only morning hours. Yes.

Going

public safety. We have police report, fire report, EMS report, EMA report, and code reporting of packet. Anybody have anything they want to discuss about?

I just want in defense of our um codes office uh the uh code enforcement for the trash, both the accumulation and the early trash is what they were at 32 citations for the first two months of this year. Uh which I think is respectable. That was on top of the first two months sighting for 51 violation of the snow ordinance. So they are on top of doing the best they can with the citing those in violation of those trash violations. U also in that packet lifeline included their numbers. So if you look at the the lifeline um Columbia Burough response, we're about three times uh we and there of course their station is out of Columbia Burrow, but um I think we had 141 calls of service for Lifeline and the closest behind us was uh maybe West Lamp Peter were 31. Uh so we do get a lot of service from Lifeline and they are participating in our community. And I just want to mention uh in the EMC report uh that Jay put together um again just updating on planning for the 300th and 250th um putting together the necessary emergency plans and provisions that will be needed over the summer for all the events. Um that's the and there's nothing really as far as no IPAs, no EOC, nothing that has happened in the last few months on their end. All right, Mark.

Bless you. Thank you. Bless you. Thank you. Bless you. Um Joanne, you talked about two part-time employees, right? So, that's good.

We would like to convert the markethouse manager position from 40 hours a week to 30 hours a week. that will reduce the market house manager salary by 25%. Eliminates all benefits including medical stipen, leave, etc. And we would also like to establish a part-time markethouse support stamp position. um which would be at $25 an hour working 20 hours per month on an as needed basis for the market and to have coverage and it will it will reduce the manager position to part-time removing their benefits and a significant annual savings to the bureau. Even with the addition of the part-time support total costs remain lower. The change also reduces long-term liabilities tied to lead and approval and benefit time. Um, currently it's continuation of operations and reduced risk. Currently, many market functions depend on a single individual. Adding part-time support provides operational redundancy, ensures coverage during absences, and helps maintain consistent service levels during market hours, events, and emergency. The part-time support role also creates a trained staff member who understands operations, vendor relations, and events needed. This strengthens organizational resilience and reduces the bureau's exposure should the manager's position become vacant in the future. So, we would have someone in there would that would know exactly what goes on in the market and that person, you know, potentially could pick up if that were to occur. Um, the market house host events that extend beyond standard business hours. A part-time position

allows staffing to scale during peak times without overextending the manager, improving responsiveness to vendors, customers, and the community. And we were going to ask this because we know that there is a hiring freeze, but this would save significant money. So, I'll speak on this. I was against uh a part-time employee. Um but that's when we had a full-time manager. Um I didn't think we needed a part time on top of full,

right? Um the other thing is I didn't realize um the significance of to me it's one day a week there was really there but realistically that one day is a Saturday where most people take vacations have holidays go like whatever. So I understand that and this makes more sense to me now especially since you have it written out. Um so I also agree with secession succession. So it set it set sets us up for the future. Um

this is also taking away burden on staff who have to go over open the market house cover it close it which they're already overrun to begin with. Yeah. If the manager isn't available, right? Someone has to pick it up. So, I'm actually in favor of moving in this direction. Um, buddy and we have had a discussion with Bonnie, market manager, who is completely on board with this. Jack and I had a discussion. There's not any issue that she's brought to either of us about it.

The only thing I'd like I'm fine moving forward on this. I'd like to see a budget um comparison um with like some hard numbers of how much exactly we're going to be saving um by switching to the system. It sounds like, you know, from just off the top of without the benefits, that's a significant cost on the staffing. So, I do think it's most likely going to be a good choice. I just would like to see some numbers. Absolutely. What would we reduce just the market manager salary by $14,000 a year? Are there any figures of what the the insurance cost? I don't have any. Bonnie was receiving a stipen

into insurance coverage. I I don't recall what that number was, but I'll get that those numbers together. the council. How much are we paying for the um the one vendor to do the social media stuff? That's coming out of the marketing. It is. It is the marketing the market house marketing budget. I know, but I was wondering I don't know the exact I don't have the budget in front of me, but it's spelled out clearly in the budget and that's the only thing that's coming out of the market. That's correct. Is that that we're not doing any other?

No, I shouldn't say that. Um we're not advertising any Bonnie subscribed to a event detective is what she calls it. So that's exposing um you know anyone interested in hosting an event in our region to uh the market house and what we have to offer. Yes, Sharon. I thought I recalled that we put or so in the budget for a part-time this year. We did. We did. We didn't want to hire. So then that was off the table then. So to go part time now

and then will she Okay, she'll give up the stipen. Yes, she will. Okay. Okay. I was just trying to follow that. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions, comments?

That's right. I could be I could be wrong, but the burough side of the financial deal when the people pay the money blah blah blah whatever the finance manager used to take care of that. Am I wrong or who's doing that now? What do you mean to pay the money? Well, when someone pays the vendors, yes, the vendors, the finest I'm sorry. Go ahead. They still pay the their fees, monthly fees. They go to Lori. Lori enters that information. Okay. So, Lori is the one that they go to. No, they go to They go to Bonnie. They go to Bonnie. Frank and brings them in to Li.

Frank. The market house manager collects collects the money and then turns it into the bookkeeper, Lori, who processes that. Okay. I I had thought that all stopped that they didn't want the the manager collecting any of the money. That's what I thought. That was supposed to have stopped because that was an issue. Thank you. Thank you. That's why we put a lock box over there. So, but ultimately it goes to the finance department, right? That's correct. And that and Lori was always the one that credited that. I'm just wondering who's on top of it. That's that's my deal.

Just so it's two separate. You have checks and balances. And and I'm probably out of line, but what any any new things on a finance manager? No. You're telling me they're not out there or not? We haven't gotten or we're not looking. I don't know if our price is too low, our salary is too low. I don't know if the rumor mills of the world talk about Columbia nights, but we have no interest. Well, honestly, the word is out. I I mean, I know we're not We're not desirable. We're not desirable. No one wants to come over here.

That's not a secret issue right now. And the market report is in your packet. So, I added this year or this work session. I like to keep it in there. Uh for boards and commission's current vacancies both uh standard positions and alternative alternatives and uh the zoning board has one open position. Parks and wreck has one open position for ordinance. The zoning hearing board has two open positions and planning commission has three. We ask if anybody that wants to volunteer for these positions submit an application by the 20th of each month so that council has time by end of the month to move forward on

these applications in the hallway outside. Yes, they're outside the launch. Okay. So, um,

council comments. Ethan, welcome back. We'll start with you.

Yeah. Uh, I don't really have too much. Um, just two things. One, I want to thank everybody who did uh, reach out and uh, check in on me and my family uh, after hearing about my father. I really appreciate it. I didn't get a chance to respond to everybody, but I really appreciate them. Um, the other thing is at the last meeting, um, I know, uh, Jesse was speaking on, um, working with the the new sites that cover things in Colombia. Um, I I assume hopefully he's listening to this. um is that uh we do have a communication plan we're putting together with staff that is including information about working with the local news organizations in Colombia and also just in the county. So once we get that sort of uh pinned down that'll that first draft will be public whenever we're happy enough with it that we want to start moving forward and we can have more discussions about you know adjustments we want to make and how we want to uh work with the press. So, uh, but that's all I have.

Okay. Thank you.

I got one call from a constituent who was upset with the street sweeper who insisted on having the right of way going through an intersection and she didn't have the right away and um the lady was very upset with her. She said she went and she looked up the ordinance on streets and that she was right. She did not have the right away and um she just wanted to have her spoken with so that she knew what the rules were of driving the sweet street sweep up. So that if the car is coming if the car's coming down the street sweep is coming this way. Her car's coming this way. She's going across there. She has the right away. She doesn't have a stop sign. She has the right away. and the street sweeper came out in front of her. So, she just wants to make sure that somebody mentions that.

Are you indicating the street sweeper had a stop sign? I'm indicating that she thinks that she did. Okay. She didn't. Do we know when? Yeah. Where was it? When? Where? I don't know, but I've got her name and number and I can call her back and get more information. Okay. you get a chance check with the officers down there and right on the second they actually park right on top and then they also parked in front of the fire.

Is that everything? Yeah. Thank you, Councilman Zinc. Um well now we've hit April. Um we need to in an upcoming meeting talk about if we are going to appoint a vote Columbia B at the conference

in the beginning of June. Um I believe there are several of us going so council we'll have to decide we want to have as the voting member voting delegate and then the alternate and then Jack there's a paper that you have to fill out and send in and I think I sent the email the Langster County Birds Associ ation meeting is the last Wednesday of this month. If you want to go reply to the email to um Rebecca the Sans Randall and uh let her know that you'll be coming. It's at Millerville University.

Anything else? Thank you. Nothing. No. Nothing more to add to say. I know we had a full plate, but um I think we discussed I did have another email from a conit constituent this week again about the signage at Avenue I beside the market house. So maybe we could address that uh visibility over there direction uh direction traveling vehicles. So I put that on the agenda and I was shot down. Uh apparently public works is already involved in doing a study and and other things. So

yeah, because you have to do a traffic study. You have to like do a whole there's a whole pendot process you have to go through. I'll and I'll let the folks know that have been contacting me that the study they're in a process of doing it and then I'll come to council once. Sounds good answer. Appreciate that answer. Can Tom and I be kept up to date on the progress of that being on public safety? Just, you know, are if there are any other traffic studies going on, just want to be made aware so we can uh just stay in the loop on them. All right. Um,

I do not have anything. So, um, upcoming upcoming meeting, April 8th, CCAT at the National Watch Clock Museum at 5:30. Speed, brother. April 9th, 2026 is park and recreation meeting. ETH is harp also. A harp's canceled. Oh, harp's canceled. Yes. Sorry, I didn't say that. I had to cross out so I can read it. The April 9th meeting is canceled. Is that what you just said? April 8th. April. The hard

April 9th. parks and recck is still going on. Um announcement of next meeting will be 7 p.m. on Tuesday, April 14th. Council will hold a regular scheduled meeting. I have a motion for Oh, sorry. Can I ask the issue is we're looking to simplify the zoning in town. Two different things. That's planning commission. Okay. What zoning meeting?

The last Wednesday. I I don't know that we announced that. I don't know that it's I'm not sure it's going to happen yet.

Have they met yet to name a new That's what we got to do. I know, but I'm saying they have normally they give us their recommendation like right like Lanny does, right? So, they should be meeting to at least have that, I would hope. So my question is they have five members. We're down to four. I guess it's still they need somebody did you want to discuss a little bit of the conversation we had today regarding the committee. Oh, I'm sorry. I did one too. Thank you very much.

I still have your motion. So, we had a conversation today. Um, four of us met. Five of us. Five of us met. Um, not five council members. No, no, no. It was it was the burl manager, uh, engineers, listener, Gable, and and Yep. Um, we talked about the the process they're going to go through tomorrow. That's all it was. That's all we talked about. Okay.

Um, but with that being said, there's a bid opening process for the May 18th at 10:00 a.m. the bids get open. It's we because it's a a sealed bid process, we have to do a public bid opening similar to what's done when we bid out public works projects and so forth. Um so at 10:00 a.m. they'll open the bids and read out the the dollar amount of each bid

of each bid. But then beyond that, we need to decide who or how we are going to handle the scoring rubric um with those bids. Um do we want to do a committee of you know the people that we're meeting today or does all of council want to be in that where we compile all of the results of the rubric. You say all of Bill McInness.

I I think it would be good um for a smaller smaller group team to meet that week because then they can bring the results to the 26th council regular meeting. No. Well, we have said we are awarding the bid on the 26th. Yeah. So, we need to have a meeting on the 18th to to start to compile those the score the scores and and everything. And the question is do we want the small a small committee or do we want an executive session and everyone can be involved?

So, my personal opinion is I think an executive session is the way to go. Mhm. It may be slightly longer, but our Rubik's that had put together is fairly simple. There may be a block pointtooint difference, but it should be pretty simple for us all to agree on or whatever. Okay. And um I just would like to coun this is a very big step for council um in the right direction. Yeah. And I just would like all council be part of it. That's okay. So, uh, do you did you say you wanted the meeting on the 18th? Well, I'd like to.

It's a Monday. It's a Monday evening because the 19th is election day. So, this is in May. Yes. There will be multiple people that are not available. Um, and then we would have the 20th. If for some reason we would need extra time, we could do on the 20th because we have to have everything ready by the 21st, 22nd to make it into the packet. Okay. Yeah. I'm I'm just doing the 18th at night. Oh, I I don't You got me confused. This is a bid on what? Okay. So, Frank, the RFP for McInness. for McGinness.

The McInness project, the seal bids get open on May 18th at 10:00 a.m. Okay. Well, it's my understanding they didn't go out yet. Yes, they did. No, they did. When? Uh the March 30 March 30th is when bids bids opened. They end in on May 14th. Um and then we're opening them on the 18th and then we need to make a decision by the 26th. Do you think you got bids? Is that why you're having the bid opening? No, we our RFP planning in advance. Yes, planning in advance. RFP says Okay. All right, that makes sense.

May 18th and May 26. So, we got to open them on May 18th and now it's on 26. Okay. Okay. So, what we're saying is we have to have a committee together, whether it's full council or a committee to review the bids using that Rubik's and come up with a a winner. Well, because it's not just as simple as this is how much this person bid, right? Because we have a whole set scoring requirements because we want them to tell us what project like basics about the project and things like that. It's not just bottom line. Here's the dollar.

Yes. I I I would be surprised if someone did put a bid in and used acted on that. You have to I know. But but how long do you have to act on that? That should take time. Why? To check everybody out, see if they got the money, see what their intent is. And that's part of part of this part Yeah. Part of the the scoring thing. You have to provide that information. How long are you looking for that process? Well, we can only have a bid open for 45 days.

Yeah. Well, that's we have to award the bid within 10 days of the bid opening. And because this is all per law and the closing, we have to to have the closing take place, meaning they have to give us the money to pay for the property within 60 days. Okay. So the alternative is you don't have to take the bid. Correct. Correct. Correct. As Thanks for explaining it.

Yep. And as uh just for clarification, we did also um have a discussion today about how tomorrow the meeting will be the pre-bid meeting will be interesting. Um it'll it'll give us a lot of information depending on how many or how few people show up and um we also talked about possibilities of maybe doing uh if we would you know have to pivot and do a second pre- meeting you know things like that um that may have to happen but at this point we're just sort of anxiously waiting till tomorrow at 10 to see what happens.

Yeah. A question on your process for the blue. Is it set up that you will if you use use all council to your events and your complete group as a group or does each council person have their own and assess and then bring it together. I think I I think I think it's pretty clear the Rubik's that if everybody has a cop we could sit there and say hey this one clearly falls in three and somebody may say well I think it's a four and somebody may say it's a two that's I wasn't sure how it was yeah we're all going to discuss it together

yeah I just I just want all council I was that rubric prior to that meeting or not it's in the public yeah it's in the RFP It's on the website. Yeah, it's on the website. I will print one out for you. It's in the Will the Shady Will the Shade Tree Commission meeting that night cause a problem? No. Okay. Just wanted to make sure. So, do you know what time you might have to be? They haven't decided that yet. Yeah, it's probably be the six seven o' Okay. So, any other questions? All right. Thank you so much.

Did you want to make an announcement about the I did not imag Tiffany for the reminder.

Yeah, we missed him. He wasn't on the agenda. The uh burrow will host the annual community cleanup day on Friday, April 24th. Volunteers will canvas the burrow, picking up trash. Uh trash haulers will pick up uh items that uh residents purchase uh um tags for. Thank you. Uh for more information, check out the burough website or contact Pam Armold in the police department. Thank you. So with that being said, Jack, piggy back off that. It's also go green Friday down at the crossings,

sods, the crossings, parts of rack, a few other people will be down there. Um, the shade tree commission will have their annual Arbor Day celebration, the proclamation. I think they they said they do. Um, and then I believe sides is providing food for a certain amount of people. Yeah, it's sold out. Well, I know one

they don't do that anymore. It's a full Friday. But thank you. With that being said, I have a motion by council. Second by Gez to adjourn. All in favor say I. I 9:47. Don't you have to tell what time? Yeah, you should.