Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

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I might need to borrow that cuz usually the broadcast is now starting all attendees in listen only mode. Go. All right. All right. I call this uh board of zoning meeting to order. Um let's see here. Can we hear the uh sorry we get a motion on the previous minutes or discussion? Roll call. Oh, roll call. My bad. Kathy Gardner present. Patricia Hatcher. Yes. John Kissinger Anthony here. Dennis Warning present.

All right. Now we'll go to the previous meeting minutes. There are no corrections. I make a motion to approve them as submitted. Second. A motion and a second. All in favor say I. I. All right. Okay. Okay. All right. So, anyone tonight wishing to uh speak uh please uh stand up for the oath. Go ahead and raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? If so, say I do.

I do. Okay. You're sworn. All right. Any old business? No. So your suggestion was to combine would you take maybe number two first? Two first. Okay. If they don't want to stay, they can. I got you. Perfect.

All right. Um yeah, we'll go ahead and start with uh 25- C-B10. My daughter's calling. Okay. All right. So, uh, variance of sign code for a billboard at 59 597 West Connection Way. Oh, wait. Sorry, my bad.

That's the That's the other one. Um, let's see here. This one. Okay.

Yeah. So, uh, development standards variance for Franklin and Cynthia Walter at 132 West Cambridge Drive. All right. Do we have a staff report? Yes, we do. So, bring that up. So, this is a variance at 132 West Cambridge Drive in Chesake Landing. Uh, lot 49 to be specific. What is being proposed is to construct a 6ft vinyl privacy fence which would include excuse me uh enclose most of the backyard and parts of the sideyards uh which will be shown on the site plan in a second. Uh as submitted it would avoid the cladded easements. Therefore, no board of works encroachments would need to be made. Um, but as you know, if they were to encroach into those easements, the board of works could uh at their discretion approve that. What we're here for is estimated the fence would be approximately 9 ft at its closest rightway along of Long Ridge Road. Uh that is within the platted setback. It's also within the uh code required setback along Long Long Ridge Road. uh code requirement says that uh the maximum height for fences in any required or flatted front yard is 4 feet. Uh thus the variance is to allow for a 6ft fence in lie of the 4ft fence aerial view. Uh as I mentioned in the staff report and was noted on the site plan that was distributed uh on this intersection, we have three existing fences that are similar. Uh the

two on the east side of the intersection both uh have reduced height. Uh they're privacy fences in the backyard, but they actually dropped down to approximately 4 feet in the front yard. Uh therefore they didn't require variances. The one on the southwest corner did obtain a variance for a six foot fence all the way up to the right of blue line. Uh so this does have somewhat of a precedent uh at least at this intersection. And you can see there if you kind of squint hard uh there are quite a few different privacy fences throughout uh both Cambridge Crossing and Chesake Landing. some of which are um at intersections, corner lots. Uh many aren't. Uh so closer view of this lot in specifically uh you can see the mapped easements here. You can see it better now that I zoom in. Uh but the pink line are the easements which as I said as submitted would be avoided. submitted plot plan. Uh in blue is the proposed fence location going uh as originally submitted. And I believe this may have changed, but it would go up to the corner of the house, follow the uh utility easement along Long Ridge, and then come across and back down to the back corner of the house on the west side. petitioner can correct any sort of additional changes that may have been made. And since they originally submitted, I believe they they may have changed tweaked a few things. Uh site plan overlaid over the aerial for reference.

Uh going through the review criteria, won't really go into this too much. Uh, as I said, you've reviewed similar fences uh at this intersection and elsewhere. Uh, we do have somewhat of a precedent for this. Uh, every site is unique. This one in particular, as proposed, would be set back a little bit farther from the right of way. It wouldn't be up against the right of way in order to protect the integrity of that utility easement. So that is somewhat different uh particularly as comparing it to the one immediately to the south. Uh looking at use and value as I said privacy fences even on corner lots are prevalent throughout this neighborhood. Uh this wouldn't necessarily block the view of the property to the north. The value would not be affected. is something very common and fences uh typically would not uh affect the public health safety morals. Safety again if we're looking at traffic safety is always a concern. Uh and then strict application as I said you uh have somewhat of a precedent before you um to consider as well but every site is unique. So, any questions for me?

Any questions? Thank you. All right. Uh, ask the petitioner to uh come to the front, state your name and your address and give us any additional details.

Uh, Franklin Walter. It's on the property at 132 West Cambridge Drive. All right. Any um anything additional that you'd uh like to bring up that that wasn't already addressed by Nathan? Well, I just wanted to ask um what is the easement on our property? What is it for? I know the back there's a utility utility easement on. Yeah. In the very back because I'm just wondering why we have to go so far because they got saying we have to go 9 ft in from the sidewalk

and I know there's other fences that are only about 4 feet. So that was what I mean like when we bought the property we just looked at other fences around cuz we got three dogs. That's also why we wanted the six foot because a couple of them are pretty big and we don't want them getting over there and their heads would come off almost to the top of a 4 foot. Do you guys want to address the ement thing?

Yeah. So the angle of this particular easement, the one along Cambridge Drive I believe is a utility easement that's more of a generic just a certain distance off the right of way. The one along Longidge though I believe because of the angle of that makes me believe that there is actually a uh either a sewer line or a water line that runs through there. So that easement follows that. Uh most likely it's sewer line. Water lines tend to curve. Sewer lines go straight between uh manholes.

Uh so without actually pulling the plans, I'm going to say that that's following an actual constructed utility line be sewer, storm, or or water. But I think it's probably sewer. Okay. So we would have to stay 9 ft in then. Yes, that's what that's what our you could get that approved here if you wanted to. Oh, okay. Because that's separately, but Okay. Yeah. Even would go just like like two feet. Correct. This this body cannot approve those. Those board works.

Yeah. basically the you would have to you I mean you could approve it subject to their approval of encroachment right um because it's still part of the variance but it would require a second approval okay so long as I understand this in the very back we're coming in 16 ft from our property line in toward the house right the site plan says 17 what did I say 16. Oh, 17. Yes. Yes, you're right. I'm sorry. No, you're fine. And then the side 9 ft. 9 ft. Yeah. And 4 and 1/2 ft on the other side. Okay.

All right. That's the best we can do. I saw on that staff report also made note that you were going to be putting a final privacy effect. Okay. Not not wooden. No, they go those go bad too quick and that's what I noticed there that areas a lot of fences are starting to look pretty. The house beside us, you know. Yeah. We come out our back door and it's rough looking. Yeah. Quite a bit more money, but looks a lot nicer. Okay. Got um the other thing that I wanted to just Do you want to keep going or I can go a different time if you want me to? You can ask questions. Absolutely.

Okay. Um I was just going to make a uh comment. So I guess I'll wait for that part. Okay. All right. Um anything else that I'm I'll ask you guys for for questions, but Well, I got that in the six feet. You still hadn't okayed yet. So yeah. Okay. Any questions for the petitioner? I guess the only thing I would ask is the um you have a a door that comes out onto the patio, which I'm assuming that that's where the dogs will be let out to get into the fenced in area. So there are no um doors if I even looked when I was there on that side of the house.

No, no. The only door will be the one they're coming out of. Sliding door in the back. Okay. Dennis or Pat, anything additional? I don't think I comment.

Okay. All right. You may sit down and we'll take additional comments if there are any. All right. Uh, anybody else wishing to speak for the petitioner? Okay. Anyone speak Wait, wanting to speak uh against the petitioner? Hearing none, I'll close the session and uh open for comments or discussion or uh Mr. Chairman, I make the motion for approval. Go ahead.

Sorry. I just wanted I just wanted to make a comment here. Um in in front of us this evening, we were given um pages for our um the Columbia City zoning ordinance that was um revision 10, which happened on May 27th, was a happened to be a revision to the fencing and wall um section of our zoning ordinance, which gives us the um rules and regulations that we go by when approving or or the part the department issuing permits or fences or walls um on property within Columbia City. The thing that really concerns me is that um on May 27th, the the revision to this section of the ordinance was made and they did not revise the section that says um any fence or wall which projects into or encloses required front yard shall not exceed 4 feet in height. So, I really have a concern with fences in the front yard. And I know it doesn't seem to be a front yard, but because it's on you're on a corner, so you have two front yards. I really have a concern about approving um a six-foot fence um in the front yard because I just feel like if this was something that was important when this ordinance was revised on May 27th that um that change should have been made. So, um, that's what I just wanted to say.

Mr. Chairman, I make the motion for the approval of 25- C-B10. Okay. Have a motion from Dennis. Do I have a second? I'm going to second it. Okay. Go to a vote. Uh, for all those in favor, say I. I. I. All those opposed. I Okay, motion carries.

All right. Um, you are approved. Uh, and then I'll let these guys comment on whatever they need to uh provide you in the future.

Your company requested the permit. So, we'll let them know that it's approved and for that. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time.

All right. All right. So, we're going to move on. Um, Nathan, are you suggesting we uh are basically hearing both at the same time or do I handle these separately just in in order? Um, that is a really good question. Um, typically when we have a variance and special exception for one site, we do uh handle them basically together. Yeah. And we will probably effectively do that. But I do want to say that again the variance could be approvable and the special exception not and vice versa.

So they're not quite. Start with one and we'll go to the other. Yeah, they're not quite as tied together as some proposals that we see where it makes sense that it's an all or nothing thing. So, okay. All right. Well, we'll start with uh 25- C-B Robinson outdoor outdoor LLC setback variance for billboard at 597 West Connection Way. Nathan, staff report.

Thank you. So going to these slides. Uh this is uh 597 West Connection Way uh zone general business uh lot six of Armstrong corporate park section 2. What is proposed here is to install a billboard which happens to be an EMC. The AMC component is a special exception. uh but subject to the variance are the other standards that apply whether it's an EMC or not. Uh maximum height uh is not a variance but going through the standards uh and description uh what is proposed is a 40 foot 41 foot high billboard. The maximum sign face of each sign is approximately 375 ft. uh not quite half uh about 4 um 60% of the total maximum at 672 if they were to max it out. Uh maximum sign face dimensions uh what is proposed is 10 by 30 which is less than the 14 by 48. Uh going into the dimensional the distance standards uh that's where we start getting into the variances. They do meet the requirement for the separation from another billboard on the same side of the road. Minimum distance there is 1,00 f feet. They're approximately 3,900 ft. The nearest billboard on the north side of US30 is over uh east of that's east of 109 believe right as you get to the hotel. Um the first variance that we encounter is the distance from uh residential zoning which is on either side of the road. So

the nearest residential zoning is approximately 400 ft to the east. Uh that is the property owned by the Methodist church happens to be zoned residential. Minimum code uh is 500 ft resulting in a requested variance of 100 ft. Uh next separation would be to an intersection as measured to the right of way. Uh the placement of this particular site is about 375 ft to the right of way of Armstrong Drive to the east. Code minimum is 500 ft. Thus the variance is 125. Setbacks. Uh these are this one's a bit more significant. Uh the front setback from US30 per code is 50 feet. What is proposed is approximately five feet to bleeding edge uh with a variance of 45 ft. Uh there is not a code standard for minimum uh side setbacks. Uh but for reference, the proposed side setback is also approximately 5T to the property to the east. So we're looking at those three variances for placing a uh billboard at this proposed location. Again, whether it's electronic or not or uh traditional static. So, highlighted in blue is the subject site. Uh Armstrong Drive is there in the middle. Town Country uh Plaza is off to the right. Wings etc. is here. gas station, Dunkin Donuts, Crossroads Bank, uh dentist office, the new gym that's under construction, in case you wondered what that was and hadn't heard yet. It's a gym. Uh performance, uh rental is the subject property. You've got the hotels

over here and so on. Connect uh opportunity drive, the jail, and so on. Included the zoning slide for reference to show you the residential zoning. uh as well as noting that the church is down here parking lot. So it is not actually occupied by residences but churches are a residential use as well as a commercial use. Um across the road across the highway uh it's zoned I1 of course not developed but it is zoned I1 and everything else uh on the north side is either commercial or industrial. Um but again because of that zoning designation we're looking at that variance. Uh again you can see the distance here to Armstrong Drive being that um being that variance uh site plan. uh as submitted, the uh billboard would be located in basically a little grassy area between properties uh somewhat in line with the existing identification signs including a directory sign on property to the east which is a strip mall. So they were allowed at development time uh a multi-tenant directory sign. You'll see that in a second in the street view. Uh so this is somewhat in line with those because it's in line and because of the other difficulties of this site uh a lot of pavement around it. Uh that's really what was driving the approximated US30. Um at least as best as I can interpret. Uh the proposed sign plan again overall height to the top of the sign panel is

41 ft 3 in or rounded down to 41 ft. Uh overall size of the sign itself* 2 is 27t 3 and 1/2 in by 13t 7 and might be 3/4 might be a half not quite sure there. uh height again all under the maximums allowed. Uh and then importantly the clearance under the sign is approximately 25 ft uh from the bottom of the sign to the ground level. And that's important because the directory sign and other identification signs in this area, they're allowed to be up to 30 ft, but uh by my measurement, they're all under it, at least in the immediate vicinity. Uh the nearest one that maxes out at 30 feet is one of the hotel signs to the west. So overlaying the uh site plan over the aerial. I'll zoom in a little bit here for you um for reference so you can see how that lays out. And again, this entire property does have uh driveways all the way around it. It isn't owned in common with this property to the west or to with the property to the west. You can't see my cursor, but the property of the west. Uh, as I said, I do have this street view. Uh this is my approximation of where the uh proposed billboard would be in visual comparison to the existing signs particularly the sign that directory sign that's on the property immediately to the east. This is looking from Armstrong West. Uh and so this is based

upon the sign plan and the size of that sign. the additional height um clearance of 25 ft actually puts it above that directory sign. Uh because it's in line, it does line up fairly well. It is larger than our identification signs. Billboards by their nature, our code allows larger signs. Uh thus it would be larger as you can see there and as you look down the highway what it looks like. Um if it was set back 50 ft you would be basically flying with uh the facades of those businesses. So to give you a reference of that um shifting it puts you in line more with the identification signs which have one foot setbacks.

So is that roughly rough roughly in line with that marathon sign? Uh yeah. Yeah. Basically, the identification signs uh all along this stretch are approximately in line with each other. The directory sign there is actually set back a little bit more. Marathon signs brought forward. Uh you can see Holiday in and Quality in the Holiday in is I believe the nearest one that's a full 30 ft tall. Um those are those are fairly close to the highway. So yeah,

again roughly in mine. Uh so going to the variance criteria and um just remembered I actually proposed a couple conditions so I will have to address that as well in a second but going to the review criteria uh wouldn't really be looking at any injury to the public health or morals signs don't have impact on those typically uh public safety. Um one of the reasons for a setback for billboards because they're allowed to be bigger, they do have a setback that's a little bit larger than what we'd be looking for for identification signs. One of the reasons for that larger setback is to allow for less distraction for driving safety. Um as well as similarly the separation to the nearest intersection. Again trying to get uh signs away from large signs uh away from areas that might be sensitive to distraction cause issues with public safety. That said, what is proposed is not the maximum size that the code allows. It's about 60% of what the code allows. So that that may come into what you're uh looking at in terms of the the variance request. Um let's see here. Uh I do mention that public safety could be countered. Uh as an EMC, this is getting into special exception part of it, but as an EMC, they are uh committing to provide public safety announcements, uh storm warnings, stuff like that. Uh so that public

service as a public safety component of it you might be able to argue kind of helps or or balances some of the impacts that we have for uh other public safety issues. Uh again welfare could be um injured if if we don't have specific uh reasons and uh practical difficulties for this sign. Excuse me. Um, as for use and value, uh, the sign location is generally commercial area. Billboards are allowed in this area. Um, if they meet the minimum standards, they're allowed in commercial areas. Uh, so it's not likely that, uh, these would impact the use necessarily or at least the value. Um, it doesn't impact traffic movement or anything else of the adjacent property. So that that use component really wouldn't be impacted either. Um as I mentioned one of the standards is for the distance to nearest residential billboards could impact residential property values. That's one of the reasons for that standard. In this case that residential district is occupied by church not houses. So that impact on that value for that particular zoning district probably is not. And don't they have an ECM?

They also have an ECM. That ECM is uh not as large as this one, but it is it's good size.

It's it's good size. Um and then finally, strict application. Uh I really am kind of ambiguous on this one. Uh there are some uh sight specific difficulties with this site. name as I mentioned the um parking all the way around it. We don't necessarily have that with every site. Um however on the other hand moving it slightly west uh which would remove uh two of the variances the separation to uh the right of way as well as the zoning uh might uh also be able to allow the sign to be placed at a more compliant distance from US30. But on the other hand, you have structures that, as I said, this sign would line up and in order to counter the structures obscuring the view of the sign, it would perhaps need to be raised to a height that maybe be even more um prominent uh than what is being proposed. So balancing all of that out um as well as just whether a sign at any location in this area um is appropriate if it can't avoid getting a variance uh are things that you definitely can look for. As I mentioned, uh if the if we do approve a variance without specific difficulties, very specific grounds for it, uh you do have the risk of of setting a precedent for sign proliferation. We just talked about similar precedent setting thing with that fence. Uh so do keep that in mind as well. Uh I think there are some grounds for a practical difficulty here as I mentioned but uh we do need to make

sure that that is stated. Finally, and again I apologize I did not put a slide together. I will here real quick. Uh but I do propose two conditions of approval. Uh one is pretty standard that it's as presented and for the site plan. Uh and then two that the variances for the proposed sign only. Replacement of the sign accepting for the sign face which can just be changed uh would require additional compliance with would require compliance with the code or an additional variance. And I include that specifically here to make it clear that this is tailored. If you approve it, it would only be for this very very specific approval, not changing it slightly, lowering it, whatever. It would meet the approval as is. Um, again, and that is going back to the idea of tailoring it and trying to avoid setting precedent for fliperation. Shouldn't there be something added to that that if it's a different company goes into that building that they have to come back for us an approval? This they can't use the sign without

or not. This is a billboard and not a identification sign. So it's independent typically of of the tenant. Okay. Even if it was identification sign, you'd be running in first amendment issues. Okay. Which I'm trying to kind of work around. Yeah. Good question though. Good thought. So So where's the controls for it? I mean, who who changes the if I'll let the petitioner

answer that. He's got a good answer for that. Um but uh any any other questions for me? Okay.

Okay. No questions. No questions. All right. Do you want to come come up just state your name, address, and uh a little more about Good evening. My name is Danny Marlor. I'm with Robinson Outdoor. Um our address is 50 Robinson Industrial Drive. Missouri 63775. Okay. All right. Uh tell us a little bit about the sign and

um one of the biggest things components that we have, you know, Mr. Robinson, he was in the billboard business back in the 80s. He sold out to Lamar and Drury and all them guys. He was pretty successful businessman in the stone company. Then uh that sold. So he decided his passion was billboards. So, we're in year number five, and we have about 130 uh digital billboards in the ground right now. In five years, we're actually predominantly the fastest growing digital billboard company right now. Uh new structures as well. Uh in in the process of us building this company, uh myself and my general manager, we're both retired police officers. So, we thought, what do we can do for the communities that we're going into? What can we do to help them? I know a lot of people make broken promises. Oh, we'll do this, we'll do that. But I believe you guys got a copy of our uh our benefits package, community benefits package that we sent. We want to make sure everybody got a copy of that. Uh we put it in writing. You know, we're we're not the you know, we're going to do it and we never show back up. Uh one thing good about digital billboards versus your your static display billboards, uh once they're built, there's no connection with the community. you know, with our digital billboards, uh, we we stay connected with community. There's always somebody here. Uh, there's always gentlemen or ladies coming around talking to the business owners, seeing what we can do to make things better for them, especially our customers. Um, all of our digital billboards are connected to National Weather Service Center. For any reason that Columbia City would come under tornado warning, all the advertisement shuts off. That turns into the emergency advanced warning system. Okay. One of the things I don't know if Nathan and I got to talk about or not, but that actually helps you guys with your federal grant money and stuff like that too because not only do you have audible, you have visual mount. Uh we are incorporating, we haven't done it yet, this, you know, we're not sure when that transaction is going to take place,

but we're actually trying to build all our new signs that have mounting brackets on top of the units. So that way if cities need a place to put audible sirens, we have the capability of attaching them to our signs as well. So now you got visual and audio in the same location. As Nathan had said earlier, you know, in our community benefits package, you know, we we we strongly encourage the cities to utilize any free vacancy, you know, that we have on our billboards to self-promote community events, you know, uh any fundraisers that the city's doing. Uh the police department if they have any uh Amber Alerts, you know, we we're dedicated to that. uh sober alerts, they have anything. Fire department, uh public works, they also have access to this knowledge, you know, or this this piece of equipment to uh put out stuff that they may be doing to to promote the fire department or if public works got a boil water order they need to put out. That's that's another issue, you know. So, there's a lot of things that we're trying to do to give to the community. I mean, I've had I'm actually the main real estate guy with our company. So, I get a lot of uh phone calls from town leadership, you know, hey, what would it take to get you to come in our community for the mere fact that they see too much tourism money going right by on the highways? You know, other towns are predominantly growing because they're getting that tourism money. This is a way to put it in there and get them people to stop in your communities, get your businesses up there, get them out there, and get them exposed to to the people. I believe we calculated was 32,000 cars a day on that road.

Uh a little bit east of here, it's about 32. At this west of 109, it drops a little bit.

That's a lot of revenue that could come into this community. Um we take those into consideration. Um out of the whole Fort Wayne area, there a 60 mile radius of Fort Wayne. We had only 12 cities that we proposed to go into and Columbia City was one of them. you know, it's it stood out to us as a community that we want to be a part of. Uh everything's growing here. You've got a nice clean community that stands out to us as well. Uh one thing that Nathan did cover on the setback there on that sign as well. One thing that we discovered even after all the traffic studies and stuff that we did, the further we move that sign away from the roadway, the more of a hazard it becomes because not you you're driving down the road, you look over, you see our sign. Now, if it's way out in the field and you're looking, where's your eyes when you're driving, they're not out the windshield. They're actually out in the field looking at whatever is out there. And cosmetically, we tried to make sure that, you know, we have a haggle. It's a stick. It's a measuring tape on heavy duty stick that you can raise up. I did a lot of measurements to make sure that I was compassionate to the neighbors around us. I didn't want to cause any problems with them, any heartburn. Wanted to make sure we kept our heights up. So, I mean, if I'm blocking their sign, they're blocking my sign. It just doesn't make any sense to to do anything different than that. Um, one other thing was, uh, after we submitted this proposed location as well, if you look toward the back of that easement, um, Amanda had sent us a a documentation from the the public works department, I believe, about a sewer drain that's on the back side of that easement. Again, we have to stay so many feet away from that. And basically for that is is for the integrity of whatever is underneath the ground that the city already has imposed in there. Any type utility services or whatever. So that was one of the other things, you know, we're definitely going to have to make sure we keep in mind when we're

doing that. And I believe it requires another inspection as well from the public works department. But other than that, um I said I think we pretty much covered. We're not trying to build a interstate billboard in your local community. That's not what we do. We take the distances away from the highway. We take the measurements from the traffic lights and we come up with a happy medium to make sure that it's compatible for what we need to do, but at the same time, we're not putting 647 square foot sign out there on the side of the road. So, you're aware that they're going to be redoing US30 at some point? Okay.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Absolutely. That was made crystal clear to me from the beginning from the So, the stop lights probably going to go away. Most doubles. Most of them. Yes, sir. Hopefully. Sometimes I don't know them roundabouts, they can be uh they can be just as challenging as a traffic light. Yeah, I don't think about on 30. I think they'll be overpasses. Overpasses. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Either way, you're basically for lack of a better term, leasing the area that sign's going to be on.

Yeah, we buy perpetual easements is what we usually do. It's permanent. Um, it's kind of unique because the owner of both properties, Aaron Schmucker actually is is buying out uh Mr. Miki from his property for the powersports building there. When we were all started doing the the surveys and everything else, Mr. Moni actually realized he didn't have an ingress egress for his property as well. So that's he's like I'm glad this came up cuz I need to get that before we finalize our sale to you as well. So kind of killed two birds with one stone on that. Um the other question is or one of the other things that was brought up and and this uh discovery was the distance from the church property as well. Um you know half dozen one half dozen they do have electronic message board there in front of theirs uh as well. Um, I know it's usually zone commercial when it's involving a church. Uh, but currently it's zone residential. Um, we do take that into consideration as well. And whenever I first came in here, I never talked to any of the land owners. The first place I went to was to see these this young lady and this gentleman right here to make sure that it was a fit for the community as well. You know, we wanted to make sure we're following all your rules, regulations the best. And to be honest with you, I believe, if I'm not incorrect, this is probably the only place in the city now that you can build a

uh I didn't do all the measurements. Yeah, it's it's becoming tighter. Yeah, I don't believe it's the only, but it is becoming tighter. So, does anybody have any questions for me regarding works? I will. Shall we right now? Go for it. So, my that was one of my questions was had you looked at other locations? Yes. So, um and you wanted it within the city city limits or Okay. So, um

with our community benefits package, ma'am, that's the benefit of putting them inside the community, you know, is because if I put it out on the interstate, you know, it's not doing your community any justice out there. not helping. I mean, we're still helping people out on the highway, but it's not doing, you know, our interstate boards. We don't we don't have a a program per se for community development as far as interstate reads. It's pretty static. And then I you kind of touched on the board of works approval then for that 20 foot utility easement because you kind of talked about that you had talked with them about it was brought up after the fact that we we

so you haven't gone to the board of works and requested because your pole and the majority of the sign will be within that 20 foot utility easement then well we're actually buying the airspace the actual it's a monopole it's a single pole that pole will be over in the grass area. It won't even be near the the actual storm drain system that's in there as well. The the easement is still wider than that. So, yeah, the easement is, but it's still it's still a platted easement. So, it's still platted 20 but utilities. I get I get what you're saying. Yes. Okay. So

um so we as we were reviewing it that did come up um and it was a matter of chicken and egg da first board of works first. So since the process had already been started he had filed with DZA uh we were going to bring that then to the board of works if this was approved. So theirs is as you know administrative approval typically and they've already done the practical review of avoiding utilities and so on. So there has been discussion. It's just not a formal approval yet.

One other question that Dennis had brought up and I apologize for backtracking. He had brought up something about how the sign was controlled. Uh our signs are all monitored 24/7. There's people sitting in a room just watching every one of our digital billboards. They monitor them religiously. Um if for some reason something was to go wrong, they can shut them down just with a phone call. Okay.

Um that's all internetbased. Um same thing with all our digital billboards. I know sometimes when you're driving down the highway, I've seen it whenever I was coming up from Missouri up here. There's some of them in Ohio even. Uh you're like driving like, man, that thing's bright. Well, those are in generally speaking, those are on premise signs and they're not controlled by the state. So, they don't have to regulate the brightness of their signs. And every state that I've been in so far, the state regulates the brightness of our signs. We have a auto dimming system built into our signs. So, that way if like an overcast day, it automatically dims itself down.

You know, um the brightest the sun usually is is probably high noon when it's competing against the direct sunlight. it dims itself at night and then it automatically dims down as as dust sets in it. It actually all dims itself for some reason. And the state actually comes by and they they're pretty good at regulating that testing it. They'll call us up and say, "Hey, they'll just sporadically say we're picking this board. We want to go over and measure it. Go ahead." Because we always set ours lower than your standards anyway. So, we don't have any issues with them as far as that goes as far as requirements by the state. But um then like I said everything else is handled remotely. It is internet based if that answered your question.

I guess because we're kind of talking about it al together. You know I I personally am concerned about the location of this um due to the um the existing buildings that are there. We've got um parking areas um where people are, you know, even coming through in the easement, driving back and forth to the strip. Um I'm just going to call like a strip mall building there. Um there's parking areas all around. Um that and it's just a very small area. Plus two, there's a lot of signage already for existing businesses that are along, you know, pole type signs that are for the businesses to the east and to the west of this. Um, it's just a very congested area. So, I personally have a concern with it whether it's um, you know, electronic or not. You know, it's a billboard.

So, um, that's, you know, just my comments on that. I think we're just trying to cram something into a very small area.

Is there a reason you didn't consider going?

Well, the property there to the west of it, um, they wanted to leave that up for future development. um for the mere fact that there's a chance that someone else I mean you're getting ready to put a gym in right behind there. Um that was one of the other things we didn't want to conflict with other signs that are going to go onto that property. That's why we chose to go in between the other two on premise signs that are already currently in that area and go above them so that we're not blocking or or causing any issues with their on premise signs. Another question that I have, we were given information um today too regarding the uh restrictive covenants protection restrictive covenants for Armstrong Corporate Park. So um even though we do not enforce restrictive covenants, I most certainly do take um them into consideration when I'm, you know, thinking about this

or residential or whatever. Um so that again is another concern of mine if that's not something that's been you know addressed with um

yeah neither one of the land owners have been brought back to our attention. It was actually brought up to us by Amanda doing her research. So that is something we will have to address before anything's done further as well. Like I said we're trying to be friendly neighbor. We're not in here to make waves or cause any problem any heartburn with anybody. That's not what we do. We want to work with the community and not be against the community. That's not our MMO. So, I appreciate the question. So, anything else?

Okay. Thank you.

All right. Anyone else wishing to speak for the petitioner? Anyone else wishing to speak against the petitioner? Hearing none, I open for comment or motions discussion. Okay, if we're going to do these one at a time, I will make a motion for the approval of 25- C-B9 with the suggestions as mentioned. Okay, I have a motion. Do I have a second? Okay. Do not have a second. And uh any discussion? No. Okay. I'll make a second to Dennis's motion.

All right. So, this motion does not So, we have a motion and a second for the 25- C-B9. Correct? Okay. All in favor say I. I. All those opposed. Okay. motion is denied. So, you still need to take a you still need another motion to take affirmative action. Okay?

Whether that be continue, motion to deny, or you could do another motion to approve with a different set of conditions. Uh we do have three variances being considered basically as one. So, if you wanted to slice them up independently, I don't think so, but if you wanted to, that could be another opportunity. So, you still have a couple different motions, if you think. I'll make a motion to deny 25- C-V9 as presented. Do you have

a second? All right. All in favor of banana denial. Okay. All opposed. Okay. Motion carries. Okay. [Music] Do we need to handle?

So whether we handle the special exception, I'm going to ask the petitioner whether he wants to go go forward with the second part or not. and we would make adjustments to the special exception case accordingly if we did go forward. Not sure how that'll work, but we'll play it out. So, I'm sorry, I didn't understand.

I'm not sure I understood either. Um, one, um, because the variance is denied, uh, do you want to go forward with a special exception? Do you want to request continuence for the special exception? special exception being for the EMC itself. If you think that you can find a code compliant location for the sign, it might make sense to go forward with special exception. Um, may make sense to request continue and of course you could withdraw.

This would be an attorney question. Is it inappropriate for me to ask them the attorney factors as far as what this goes as far as that goes? If it if I need to, you know, continue it, I could do that if it whatever I could do to satisfy the board. I think as long as the board is comfortable with that, I I don't think there'd be any problem opening up for discussion. So, we just openly discuss our opinions about that. Is that

Well, essentially what he's trying to determine is, you know, whether or not he should continue it or whether he should withdraw uh this this new one. So essentially the discussion would probably be uh you know uh in terms of I guess it would be kind of like a general discussion on in in that sense but more so just uh an explanation basically if you wanted to for you you know your thoughts on denying or whatever. So, is it is that your

uh yes, basically where I'm going where I'm going to direct you to is the grounds for denial. If there's anything beyond just it's not compliant with code, you can always fall back on that. Uh but if there were specific reasons for denying it um that he might uh use for his own education as he continues to look for or revise the site, I think that's that's perhaps where but again the code is the code and if you denied it because it doesn't meet the code then then that's fair to say too. And I felt like in my in my denial that I openly um listed the items that were of concern um for myself um and the reasoning for my denial. So um which were several. So I guess I'm not don't speak for Tony or for Pat those.

Yeah. to me the the encroachment of you know like of 30 and then the uh just like there's a lot going on already in that space and to me it was just so I guess my question would be would it appease you more if I move further down west or I mean we'd still be in our regulations but we'd be a little bit further away from that particular that area. I I'm just asking questions here. I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to be hard hard on this. I just want to know if it's worth my time.

I don't like the location. I just don't think the location suits what it is that you you know for your um for your billboard. I just don't think it's a good I just don't think it's a good location. So, in my opinion, I wouldn't I wouldn't be interested in approving anything on that side. Okay. Okay. That's My question is to be compliant, if I move to the vacant lot that's beside them, I would actually be within compliance of the city's rules and regulations. Uh, we'd have to do the review, but it it could be compliant. Yeah,

it sounds it sounds to me like you'd have more luck getting it approved if it was on the eastbound side of the road instead of the westbound side of the road. No, not that's what you just said. There's too much going on on that on this strip mall right there. There's nothing going on over here. Right in here. But if he wouldn't want to move it farther to the west, Dave owns that. Yeah. Dicki owns that vacant parcel to the west of of the performance rental. Yes, ma'am. Yes. Yes. So, I'm just saying and I don't want to say I'm getting approval for anything other than if I if you move were able to move

the proposed billboard site to that area and thus meeting more of the requirements of the ordinance. That's there's so many so many more positives to that site than what you've got where you where you're at now. Okay. Do you feel the same way? I do. And and I just want to add that I think the sign the purpose of the sign I approve of that and I had no problems years ago somebody tried to talk about that kind of a sign that we needed out on that area. I was with Chamber of Commerce and so and redevelopment. So, it's already been talked about and I was excited when I saw this. The location is just Yeah. way too much.

I know when we was initially doing our research, there was actually a a site on the other side of the highway you and I think one of the issues was there was another sign to close, but they got approval to my understanding. They just never built. Correct. Uh what you're referring to is a sign that would be and the approval still stands uh on um just west of Lincoln Way on the south side in front of I forget the owner's name. Um Snippers that area.

Oh yeah, they're blown now. They did. Yes. And that that variance was again a proximity to the ride ofway because of Lincolnway through there. Um but in that the in that review we determined that there was a billboard on the east side of Lincoln Way. Uh not sure exactly whether it's a full billboard or whe whether it's just a offsite identification sign. Important distinction. Uh but if if it were a billboard then that would limit uh the separation between billboards if he was anywhere on the Langlo property which is basically what you're suggesting as well as proximity the meth the Methodist churches on premise signage and again the number of signs there. So

multiple things. I think there's probably value in in getting your special exception approved if you can find it in location if you want to go if you want to go down that we could. So I mean you're encouraged to go ahead and continue get the special session and then come back for the right. So he could do that right. I I would suggest um discontinu requesting a continuance so that the special exception is based upon a revised location. Um it sounds like it makes sense to do that. Um honestly it would be very complicated to try and figure out special exception without a location. Yeah, I got you.

I I put it out there as an option just in case makes sense somehow. Um, but based upon if you think that you could get a revised location in the same area, um, I think continuing this special exception would be appropriate. If it winds up being quite a ways away, then it probably would have to be a new special exception just so that the notices go out to the correct people. But if it's the same

two parcels common ownership. So if it's still the same ownership parcel, I don't think uh we're in the wrong for continuing it. So and that would be basically my question to you guys if that would be if I would I mean spending money obviously if you ever had a survey done those aren't cheap. They're not.

I am using local company though. So it is nice that we're actually using somebody from Vocally for doing that. So he's very familiar with that property. If I can get Mr. Monte to agree to it, I I wouldn't have any heartburn moving to that location pre-approved. But I want some kind of encouragement and investment from you guys as well. You know that I I'm not I'm not dragging around a you know a flat tire. You know, I just really want to I really we really want to be here. That's that's the whole reason I'm here. you know, I drove eight hours to get here just to make sure I was here for this meeting. So, it's important to us. So,

I would like to make a motion that on 25c2 to continue uh this special exception um for possible amendments and to the um to the next available meeting for the petitioner. Am I allowed to do that? What are your thoughts? Should they? Because if we leave it open-ended, we typically require renotification. If they continue it to a specific meeting, then we don't require new new notification.

We could just we could continue with that day, but if that's going to require notice, again, obviously that would put you through more. So, if you're okay with just continuing till the next meeting and then at that point in time, does he have to appear again to continue to the following meeting after that? It would be a uh uh we allow for one administrative continuance and after which it would be uh totally on the board's discretion. So we could continue it in the next meeting if you know staff hears from him we could just continue it again at that point in time. Hopefully at that point you wouldn't have to drive up each you know. Well I'll be that's just my nature. I'll be here. Great. That'll be perfect.

Okay. Second. Second. Second. All in favor say I. I. I. All oppose. Okay. Great. Good luck. Thank you. You're welcome. So, you send me a notification as far as when the next meeting will be.

So, if we have, this is more of a question for you guys as well. So, if we do location. Do I bring that meeting at that particular time? Um, if it is fully compliant with the zoning code, you're only looking at the special exception. So, you'll just get us a new site plan and that we attach the special exception if it requires variance as well. That would require a new filing for the variance. And when's my deadline to have that done? I mean, I think the only zoning issue or uh compliance that I would have would be the setback location, you know,

um that's a safety issue for traveling motors as well. So, I mean, that would be one out of the three. Um but again, we're everything else would be compliant. So,

yeah. Um Amanda is looking up the deadlines here. Uh but I do have one other quick report for the board since we're under reports. I don't have any other business but a quick report. Um over the la basically last week uh I went out uh followed up on several different uh violation complaints particularly RVs being occupied as residences quote unquote. That's kind of what we have to winnow out. Um because not always is living in an RV necessary using it as a

occupant. Yeah. Occupying it as a residence, which is what the code says. Um you could just be setting it up and moving it out. This takes a week and a half to do so. And I caught you at the wrong time. Anyway, so we're sending out several of those. uh some based on complaints, some just on our own uh notice. We also have a uh property that uh the community enforcement director uh officer brought to my attention. Uh he is very diligent about city codes trying to figure out what zoning code, what city code. This particular property is uh has about 12 different vehicles on it that has grown in number in the past say a year. Uh it's grown from virtually like I think two on aerials in 2024 to as I said about 12. Uh various states of disrepair uh in a residential zoned area. Uh that uh by definition constitutes a junkyard. which as you know doesn't not allowed. Uh presumably hopefully it won't come to you guys but just heads up that we do have that going. Uh and Cohen's aware of it. Um the code the enforcement side of the city code basically says the legal council is in charge of enforcement. We're modifying that to give staff notice authority rather than having him do the notices. Um that seems to be more in line with u a practice, but a strict reading of the code says legal council just does it all. Um so FYI, that is also a pending thing. uh based upon who I think is the operator of this quote de facto

junkyard. Um we've had previous dealings within in the county. Uh and they were not necessarily it it got resolved, but it wasn't the easiest way to get it resolved. Um so I'm I'm optimistic, but uh I'm also realistic about it. So heads up, there are some enforcement actions pending. again. Hopefully they don't come to you, but in case you in case they did. Okay, so that's the only thing I had for you. All right, move be second. Thank you all.

Thank you. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]