County Commission - Regular Meeting

No, new subject. Okay, we're going to go ahead and call the meeting to order. It is Tuesday, May 12th, 2026. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [laughter] Uh minutes reports received and filed. We have the treasures um okay April F.

Uh commissioner committee liaison reports upcoming meetings. So we've got HBA board meeting this afternoon planning commission meeting tonight. HBA general membership meeting Wednesday. Uh Salt Waste Management District Board third. Well, no, we don't have that cuz she's out. Uh JC rep meeting Thursday. Chief's meeting Thursday meeting. Then uh Burke meeting Monday for the realtors. No chiefs meeting this month.

No chiefs meeting this month either. So, okay. Thank you. Today begins the uh homeschool track week here in Jefferson City number of states. [clears throat] Tomorrow I have St. Mary's party. Thursday is a strong water meeting. Friday is our payments.

Yep. Hey, today I've got a Cap Region Foundation meeting at noon. I will be at St. Mary's tomorrow as well. [music] Uh, Thursday at 5:00 p.m. we are uh dedicating a Liberty Tree in Russellville. So, if either of you commissioners would like to come out and see our tree, you're welcome to join us. And then I'm going to run to the Canterbury Winery because MU [music] Healthcare has a talk on cancer care at 6. And Friday peanut sale everybody right down here on the corner. You don't have to go very far. I'll be selling on the corner of High and Monroe. And then Saturday I have a Missouri National Guard employers for the Garden Reserve meeting all day which I do. It's all I've got. Uh,

excuse me, Sam. Yes, Harry. Did you say storm water meeting [music] on Thursday? I thought Okay, that is that is the 28th. That was two weeks from Thursday. It was scheduled that the storm water advisory committee and then um the road bridge advisor where they were scheduled for this [music] Thursday back earlier in the year and we had to move to the 28th. 28th. Yeah. So, there was some confusion on maybe some calendars didn't get updated and some did. That's roing green as well. Yes. Okay. Do we have a presentation from staff consultants? Uh we have the uh we have the proclamation. Yes.

Yeah. Okay. Any commission comments and we will go right into the proclamation for National Public Works Week proclamation. So if if you and if you would come up here Owen it's your lucky day. [laughter] You get in on a picture.

So Owen's here. Owen KPL's here to to visit about the utility permitting. Eric regulations. Yeah. I was going to say the floor. He's uh he's gets the lead. Good. Well, that's where we're doing it right now. I'm gonna give it to you, not not to him. Uh, even better.

Whereas public works, infrastructure, facilities, and services are a vital importance to sustainable communities and to the health, safety, and well-being of the people of Cole County. And whereas such facilities and services could not be provided without the dedicated efforts of public works professionals, engineers, managers and employees from state and local units of government and the private sector who are responsible and must plan, design, build, operate and maintain the transportation, water supply, water treatment and solid waste systems, public buildings and other structures and facilities essential to serve our citizens. And that's the longest damn sentence I've ever read on an engineer.

Okay. Well, we're going to skip some of the other where's go down here. Whereas the year 2026 marks the 66th annual National Public Works Week sponsored by the American Public Works Association. Now therefore, we the Cole County Commission do hereby proclaim May 17th through the 23rd, 2026 to be National Public Works Week in Cole County, Missouri. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Move over this way with Harry in the picture over there, too. Yeah.

See, we're going to we're the one that does all the work. Yeah, exactly. Owen's doing If Christy was listening, I think you heard the solid waste in there or the waste in there. And that's a public works function. I know. It just happens to be the health department. Thanks for them doing that, too. I want who wrote that animal. The sheriff tried to squeeze animal control in remember animal that might be a that might be a for okay thank you congratulations hey next week is national public works week of course and so our our public works barbecue and rodeo like we did last year will be on okay so we send

out where it was out where it was last year yeah same place same type of format basically my shabs and my cowboy hat. Can I wear my my holster? Yeah. And you can operate some equipment, too, if you want. Just a holster.

Jessica could come out as Annie Oakley. I don't think so. Oh. Okay. Uh, bids and contracts. I'm sorry. I get a chance to shoot an apple bumper car with an arrow. Are you going to come out too? You could you could Okay, let's keep going. Uh, no bids and contracts, new business, accounts payable review. Ask for accounts payable, pending review. Motion to approve accounts payable, pending review. Second. All in favor? I

I. Unfinished business. Senior tax freeze update. Our illustrious collector. [snorts] I thought by now you'd be tired of hearing me come up and talk about this, but it uh we started with the in-person applications last Wednesday and Thursday. A little disappointing. I think we only took in 18. Is that right? 21

21 applications in in those two days. Uh which surprised me considerably. So, just a reminder again that we're doing that every week through June 30th on Wednesdays and Thursdays from 10 to 2 in the commission chambers room. If you need help outside of that, you can come to the collector's office or give us a call. Uh there's applications online on the collector's website for both the renewal and new applicants. So, we're moving forward with it.

So, we will need to talk about the renewals, too. [music] We want to look at eliminating and having to sign a card and send it in or just automatically renewing. Are we going to get death certificates, change of uh property? We kind of [music] briefly talked about it, but just so people know, we are looking at that. Yeah, we are looking at doing away with the renewal process if we can get the appropriate documentation that we need to be sure people still live and own their residence that they applied under. We're talking about it. Larry, can it be as simple as somebody saying, "I I'm I'm qualified [music] before. I'm still qualified."

And if we don't see auary or a sale of their property, we said they are. Well, I don't know that it said Yeah, basically that's what they're doing when they sign the onepage renewal application. So, we're trying to get away from doing the renewal application. uh and just automatically renewing them as long as we don't see that the ownership has changed hands or someone has passed away. I think that well would we catch the changed hands thing?

We should just tracking that because obviously the the recorder gets any deed changes supplies that to the assessor. We get a name change, but that I mean we don't necessarily know when that name change occurs or not. It we get that all in a roll at one time when the when they roll their books over to us. I I think it takes a positive statement from the homeowner, from the applicant that says, "I still qualify because if if for some reason they've sold it but it hasn't been recorded, we'll miss it and they'll get a break that they shouldn't get perhaps

that's a possibility." Yes. Hey, there was one thing in there was a front page article, I think, Sunday's paper maybe Saturday. was Saturday. You touched on uh the number that you received or applications received in last year. 5,000 and change was it? Yes.

And so the reporter said that represents 7% I think [music] of the county which what what he did is 5,000 over 77,000 residents. It doesn't sound like much, but every one of those applications got probably has two or three people in that house, maybe more. You hear what I'm saying? I he I think he understated

the significance of [music] this procedure of adopting this procedure. And we'll see. I don't know how many uh residential parcels we have. There's about 20 or is there 30 plus thousand total [music] commercial egg and residential? Yeah, I think there's in the 20 to 25,000 neighborhood residential.

Okay. And of those residential, there's [cough and clears throat] quite a few that are multi-family. 20 units, four units, six units. Those are called residential, but they'll never qualify. at least not 100% because maybe the owner could be in one of the apartments of the sixplex but only gets it on that one apartment. [music] Right. Correct.

So, uh I think I guess it's just not anything you did or collector's office did or did. We're understanding the potential significance of this but we'll find out whenever you do the calculation when the next Yeah, that with the reassessment that'll be the probably the first significant change or showing of savings. Got it. So, the renewal thing will be up to us. We'll have to just let Larry know which direction we want to head with it and give him some direction the way I see it.

I I suppose it's up to us because much of it has been up to us at this, you know, through the through the first step. But where I would caution is we automatically [clears throat] assume that somebody once qualified and they always qualify. I think it takes a a positive statement from them that they still qualify. Yeah, that's my two cent and feel more comfortable, not make it understand that 90 plus% of them will [music] requify. Who knows? We'll talk.

We'll talk. I can tell you that Boone County has done away with the renewal app and so has Green County. So, and Green County is a probably the third largest county in the well, yeah, one of the top five, I'd say. [cough] And of course, they're doing setting up the the research to see when property changes hand and get death notices. So, Okay. All right. Thanks, sir.

Thank you. Talk about the way it sounds. And y'all still want something saying I want to qualify. I'm still qualified. I'll at least sign this card and send it in or go collect this box on because you can do it online too, right? Yes. So, go collect the box online. That's all. As long as there's some kind of I mean, if if for some reason they didn't qualify and they didn't tell us and we find out a year or two later, they can say, "Well, I I didn't apply for it. You just gave it to me." I think positive from the owner says, "I still qualify. I meet all the qualifications."

Yes, I agree. Okay. Updates to the county's utility permitting policies and regulations. I print it off. Got all kinds of pretty yellow.

So, there's a lot to unpack here. And uh Matt Bringer here is here, of course. And then Owen Cle, he's one of our engineering technicians and kind of been the main person handling the utility permits. And so we're talking about utility permits primarily today, but really this is updating our policies for rules for excavation uh in Ride ofway. And it can apply to just generally anybody doing work on rightway. Could apply to somebody that's wanting to fill in their ditch and put a pipe in. You know, we we we will allow that um if they have a roadway where they have a ditch. um other things, maybe they're regrading their yard and whatever. Nine times out of 10, those folks don't get a permit. Generally, not a problem for us, but you know, if they do come to us, talk to us, you know, tell us what we're doing. Uh we do have some policies and we'll work with them through that. The bigger issue for us is the utilities. And if you drive around town, drive around the county, it's you don't have to go too far to find some um underground cables being installed. is primarily broadband. There's a lot of grants out there. There's a ton of, you know, federal and maybe even state dollars going towards expanding broadband into throughout the community and into the county, which is a good thing. You know, it's we definitely need though that access to that that utility, but it does it has created a huge burden for our department. Uh part of the burden is because our policies are outdated. Part of the burden is it's just a lot. um back, you know, 10 10 years ago or so, we might get, you know, a utility uh permit request once a month. Okay. Now, we're getting how many in the last month?

40 since the first of the year.

40 since the first of the year. And for a department that, you know, we're doing good to keep up with our normal track on our projects and everything else to add that much for us to uh maintain, make sure they're doing things in accordance with our rules. It's it's become a become an issue. Uh some some utility companies are really good to work with. Uh actually, generally the utilities are good to work with. It's the contractors that can be spread out all over the place. and you know, if we're not there checking their work and making sure things get done, it can cause problems for us long term for our rideway. So, uh we've been working on updating uh our policies and our rules. And um if if you look at the very top, it says uh December 7th, 1995. Now, in 1995, I was still in college. That's 31 years ago. So, we know we needed to update these. But just like a lot of things that we encounter, things generally out in the county, um you know, if it's not broke, don't fix it. Things were working fine. At some point along the way, before my time at the county, we quit charging for permits. We were given the free uh state law does allow us to recover uh the cost for administering a permit, inspecting it, and everything else. So, uh that was there, but just we just decided at some point that we just wouldn't charge. um don't know why and we just kept doing that and it was working fine until we got inundated within the past year or so with maybe going back a little more but it's really hit us pretty hard this year and um we do have updated fees in this draft and it's a draft and I can go through and kind of spell out or just kind of highlight the highlight the main thing. So, um the fees, um I do have the old the old were really they were really uh very cheap. Um didn't cover our cost at

all and then we weren't charging anyway. Uh so we did so Owen worked up. So there's two different types of permits that can just be a permit done. Let's say somebody's you know putting in something right at their property. Maybe it's a local [music] contractor doing a sewer line or uh you know connecting to to another utility that's [music] already there. Those are pretty basic and that that cost would be on page three and that's $60 for that permit. The ones that get a little more uh a little more involved are the we call them complex permits and those are the ones where you have the cables underground cables going all over the place. And uh for example, we got a permit request in the other day that how many miles of roadway was it? If if you added it up, it was like encompassing like several subdivisions tried to apply all in one permit.

32,000 ft is what I figured out.

So, um that for one permit, uh isn't really appropriate. So, we're breaking that one up into several. But what we do for a permit like that, we would do um a per week charge and that cost would be $370 per week. And and Owen figured uh took took some uh some of our employees took an approximate amount amount of hours that it would take per week to to monitor that. And um we we took this information from the city. They went through an update of theirs about 6 months ago and they've actually hired two people, promoted two people within their staff to specifically permanent inspectors. Um we're not to that point yet. Um we could we wouldn't hire a full-time. It might be a part-time person. Um because this this is going at some point this will taper off as it's it's all completed within the county. Uh some of this work will taper off. So, we don't feel like we need a full-time person right now, but a part-time definitely would be helpful. Uh, but for now, we're trying to make do with with staff we have. So, um, if if you damage or you're cutting the payment, that is a long-term cost for us. You We had the conversation last week about pavement preservation and maintenance. Anytime you cut into a pavement, you're creating a problem for us. So, there is a specific fee just for that. And it's specific to how old the road is. if it's a newer road, you know, that's more damaging to to that road than an older road would be. So, those costs are 300 and 900. And it does require that it be replaced back within with certain methods. Uh there's also additional cost if you don't get a permit. If we find you working without a permit, it would be basically double double the cost uh for an individual permit or a complex permit. Uh it would be double the cost for that first week.

So, and then sometimes there's a sign that has to come out to do their work and put back. Um, we we put those signs back. We the contractor does not do that and we would charge a certain fee for that. So, there's other things in here as far as working hours, uh, holidays that they can't work on. Um, you know, work between the hours of 7:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. We don't want them working into the night. Uh there's uh requirements on not being allowed to park equipment on the roadway. We've had issues with that. Some of our roads are narrow, not really wide enough for two lanes, and we've seen equipment parked out in the lane with no cones, no signs of of any sort. Now, we can if we catch them, we, you know, make them move it, but we don't always know that. So, um this this would update the regulations to require them to park those off the road. They can park on right away. They just can't be blocking sight distance uh at an intersection or something like that or they can't be on the roadway. Uh there's depth requirements. Um standard, not state law, but industry standards is they should be 30 foot deep. Um and there's a number of reasons for that. ditches, other you other things in the area, storm water pipes, um if they're too shallow, uh for example, we've encountered through our projects, uh electric lines that are just below the pavement, uh telephone lines, you name it, everything, gas lines, and sometimes it's it's just kind of happens, you know, when they're trenching or boring or pushing a conduit, you know, they can kind of gauge that depth, but you know, sometimes, especially in the old days, they didn't know exactly. [music] And so we encounter those and that can be a safety issue for our for our crews when they're out working.

So does Dig right not know those lines are buried or they they know they'll mark them but it's always you know there's a little variation. Some of the lines have a tracer wire in them some don't. The older some of the older maybe water lines might not have the tracer wire. Newer stuff will. But

the rate tells you a location horizontally. They don't tell you how deep it is. So, we'll update it to include a depth requirement. Uh, also you get sometimes they they put it right at the back of curb or in a ditch or they install their pull box. So, the pull box is the you see them all around in people's yards. It's that's where they actually pull the wires through and access the wires. Um, those we've seen those in a ditch or on the the for slope of a ditch right off the edge of the the road that can cause problems for us. And so there's um new requirements on that. So and um we we've had the conversation in the past. Oh, another one here. Um sometimes especially in you know people's in residential areas where people take care of their yards. You know what what goes back after they do their work can be just a multitude of rocks and whatever dirt they pull up. And so there is a requirement in there that there be top soil on the top 6 in. Um, I'm sure each one of you has gotten phone calls from residents regarding utilities probably more uh recently than in the past. Uh, some some other items just to note. So, we've uh we know that there is some legislation that's been uh at the state house recently uh that would uh require uh cities, counties in the state to pay for relocations of non rate regulated utilities. And this is would be the cable companies that would develop on the broadband. Um if we encounter if there utilities within our rideway and we're doing projects, it would force us to have to pay to relocate those. As far as I know that stalled this year, it's going to come back and come back again. Um if we have uh regulations in place that are up to date, I think it can counter some of those things. in there the the latest draft of legislation that I saw was that um if if the utility is

not installed in accordance with the regulations then those provisions don't apply and so we definitely need to get this updated for those reasons but like I said the uh the legislation I believe kind of stalled out this year but it'll keep coming back and um you know we know at some point something's going to happen now the latest draft it was just MDOT that it applied to They took the cities and counties out. Um the Missouri [music] Municipal League and the um Missouri Association of Counties, they have lobbyed that is is helping us do that. But um we know at some point they'll they'll come after us. And you know, and if that's what happens, that's what happens. But we definitely need to get our policies in place for that. But more importantly, um, you know, there's work going on right now, it's it is cumbersome for us to to check and make sure that it's being done in accordance with our policies and our policies, even though they're outdated, do have some some in there, but we definitely need help. So, uh, that's about all I got. We I just wanted to get this in front of you, uh, have a conversation today. Um [clears throat] I think you know bringing back something for you to approve uh we would want to clean up this. So this document here it has highlighted in yellow either changes or or add additions to the policy. So u we would definitely uh clean this up and get it get it in a in a presentable form to be approved and then also a schedule of the fees. So um you guys got anything to add? I know Owen, you you've done the lion share of this work and I want to credit you for for getting this done and um you were the one that he's been the the primary person managing the utilities within the past couple months and had the most experience dealing with them and so it was helpful having him review the policy and be able to add things that were

appropriate in there. So, and then Matt, he's the managing the whole system and taking the phone calls and approving the permits and, you know, seeing what's coming in and how many and Google Fiber hasn't even gotten to the county yet. So, that that will be next. It'll be every bit as what we're seeing now, if not more. So, but if you got anything to add, another thing, um, the city has a lot of this and more. The other thing to think about is not only with us updating, it keeps us similar to the city, but it also keeps the contractors going from no regulations to regulations. So, it kind of keeps everybody on the same playing field and then they're not getting different treatment from different instances. So,

they can say, well, we don't have to do this in the county or whatever. It just needs to be consistent. the city's the the city's regulation, it's in a it's in their code book and it's very involved and indepth and ours is just a simple document and um we don't need to get too elaborate like they do.

No, that and ours with our some of our rideway is open roadways so you can't that part's been a little tough trying to figure out and how we're going to regulate that just cuz it's a whole different ballgame than a subdivision. And you know, we we all understand that this is important. This utility being provided to the citizens is very important, you know, and it's it needs to be there. Uh but this is the county, it's the county's responsibility to to maintain this right away. And we need to, you know, as a you know, make sure we're taking care of the the citizens and what they would expect out of us. And so we just need to update our policies, get it more in line with what the current trends are, especially with the city, and update our fee schedule to be able to at least recover some of our costs because, like I said, it is it it is overwhelming us. And, you know, as we and we've got a the Stirbridge project that was bid the other day, we'll have another couple, out for bid, we'll have asphalt, chip seal overlays. you know, we'll be tracking those and that just adds more uh things that we have to do. And doing this to the same level that we're doing now, it'll be a challenge. So, like I said, it could be that we might want to hire a part-time person to track some of this uh just to kind of take some of the load. Uh we don't think it needs to be full-time, but definitely something to consider.

Another thing to think about is we have the per week fee. That may seem excessive, but at the same time, that also protects us cuz right now I've got a permit that's been open for almost [music] a year. It's 7 months, so it's over 6 months. And they just have yet to clean up. And the weekly fee would encompass that to where they would actually get it cleaned up a little quicker rather than taking the whole year to Can you walk me through uh step one is you have you will come back with a cleaned up version. [clears throat] is ready to go.

Uh is there a before the adoption of this? Is there a public u I mean is there is there an opportunity for those affected to stand here and say that's a good idea or that's not or haven't researched that. I'm not aware of there being anything but we can definitely check just to make sure and maybe Jill can help us out to see if there's any. Yeah. Um, typically if something like that's required, it's in a statute. It'd be in the statute if if it is. So, um, building permits, I know we're going through the process to update those. Um, that's a whole another deal. It's covered under the county planning uh, statutes, whereas this is maybe a little different animal. So,

well, 31 years since we've done anything, you know, I'm I'm sorry. Yeah. Uh yes, it's time we it's time we we act. So who all is this going to affect that we're going to get phone calls from? That is I guess kind of to Harry's comment was who are we going to hear from? Who wants to have a say in this?

Um it would be um well since it doesn't just apply to utilities, it's across the board. It could be any citizen that's doing work on rideway. again that that cost is very minimal. It's really the utility companies whether it's the actual utility provider or the contractor one one or so if a resident wants to dig a hole for a flower I think we might specify that that would not be covered under this. You know we we don't want to do that but I know what you're saying. I know it's an extreme, but that's kind of [music] what I'm hearing though is if you're going to disturb the ride away, this could affect you and you need a permit $60. [music] Is that what it was?

Mhm.

So $60 to um if I want to put maybe I want to put a concrete post to put my sign yard sign up or statue or something. And yeah, I mean, obviously they still need to call so they're not hitting a utility and stuff, but I didn't know how they promised it would be for everybody and everything or if this is more to try to get cuz I know we've had problems with some of the fiber optic people. A lot of them have been really great to work with, but some have not come back and put it the way they found it and they started and their yards are horrible rocks sticking up and stuff. So, I mean, I like the idea of that and also [music] to close up the permit and get it done. So, I see where you're going with it and I I think I like it, but I just didn't want any unintentional things in there.

I don't want to get into the weeds at this point, but u mailboxes are on right away today. Somebody builds along a county road, they just go ahead and put a mailbox there. in the future and they need to have a check off that it's okay.

Anything associated with a building per permit for a home would be be covered under that building permit. So that it wouldn't apply to that. It'd be it'd be somebody, you know, and I I I won't the the the mailbox or the landscape and all that. He's walking away. [laughter] The mailbox and the landscaping, we definitely don't want to permit that. So that is not the intent here. It's it's really the heavy excavation type of work. And so there there is there are driveway permits and that's that's not part of this. That's part of the building permit. So somebody putting in a driveway to a house that's already there, putting in a new driveway or doing something that's already covered under another another policy. So, um, it would be, like I said, occasionally we'll get a request, somebody wants to rework their yard area, do a bunch of work, change a bunch of things, change the drainage. Those are impacts to something that we have to take care of. And so, it would cover things like that. Um I like many other city re residents have learned that the first X feet off the curb [music] u although I cut the grass really belongs to somebody else in some respects. Right.

That's correct. Yes. So what is it? [music] Let's just take one of our I won't say densely populated but residential areas just outside the city limits. So it's very comparable [music] to what's cross across the line in the city. What's the story there with between the curb and the house how much of that ride away belongs to the county you might say in terms of you're going to get another cable through your yard whether you like it or not.

So a couple things Harry. So, um, all of our roads like that have, with the exception of a few, 60 ft of rideway. And so, whatever that road width is total, it's just the difference. And that's 10 ft or so, give or take. It really depends on how wide the road is. Okay? And that's right of way. Okay? A lot of, especially the newer subdivisions, if you look at the plat, it'll have a 15oot utility easement. And so the utilities can be in that easement, okay, but they don't want to because they're getting way back into people's yards and state law allows them to be on right away. And so, um, there is, you know, an easement for maybe there's, um, you know, water lines or other things like that. And so those easements do do apply to some of those newer subdivisions. When I say newer, you know, 30 years or newer, you know,

I'm dating myself a little bit, but you know what I'm saying. So, um, yes, that is correct. It's it's right away usually dedicated to the public for public use. Uh, we take care of it. Now, people will mow their yards and, you know, they have a driveway. We have the driveway policy and so your driveway to your house is for your benefit only, not for the public. And so, you're responsible for taking care of your driveway, your approach, even though it's on some of it's on county right away. Um, another thing that that we're going to have to start having a conversation about is sprinkler systems. We see a lot of those in rideway and which is okay. It doesn't bother us. It doesn't cause us any problems except for when we're doing a project uh where we have to excavate on the back of the curb and we run into these sprinkler uh lines and heads and we got to deal with them, put them back or whatever and that becomes a cost to the county. Um, and so, you know, generally speaking, and we had a conversation with a developer recently about those really ought to be beyond the rideway, not in the rideway. So, you know, that that's tied into this a little bit, but that's really a separate policy in itself that we need to have talk about in the future. Um, again, this is excavation on rightway, but in reality, this is 95% covered utilities cuz they're the main entity that's working within the rightway.

So, I've got the water line from the manhole to my house. And if we got a leak in there and I got to go to the manhole and that's going to be in the rightway, then we've got to get a permit. Um, if you got it on a weekend, how you going to get a permit? Is that going to be something that is going to be expedited or something if it's emergency work? So, yes, emergency type things that can be done and they come in and get the permit afterwards and um there's a a section in here for that. Okay.

I I didn't talk about it earlier. So, um but yeah, that's that's something and and we see it a lot with the water water districts. Um if they have to repair a water leak in right of way, they have to do it right away. they can come in and get a permit, especially if it's on a weekend or whatever. So, uh they always will come in afterwards and just get the permit and that way it's documented. But things like that, that's that's an emergency which it would be for a an essential utility and that would be electricity, water, sanitary, sewer, items like that. Now, if you're you get into the same conver comment earlier, Jeff, let's say you're repairing your water lateral, your lateral to your house or your connection to your house to your water meter, which the meter probably is within right away could be within the easement. So, do you need to get a a permit just to excavate a little bit to that point? You're not affecting the street. It's your your own yard you're working in. um those types of things we need to cover and maybe consider how we want to word that. Um that you know certain things don't necessarily need a permit. It doesn't affect us.

We don't have to come out and check the director. Yeah. So you have the decision making power on [music] the variance too on the depth and different things. So if they can as long as they can get a hold of somebody and get things done sometimes they have to go through the paperwork and government crap. So Mhm. that seems pretty reasonable.

It's pretty easy to get a permit. You do it online. Um you know we can check it and approve it pretty quick as long as they have all their stuff in order. So, um anyway, I just wanted to go through this and kind of give you a good good summary of of uh where we've been and where we need to go in the future. But I I would anticipate probably not next week, but the [music] week after coming back with the final documents. if you guys if you want to if you do get a chance to look through them, uh if you got some comments or suggestions, we'd be happy to to hear that. And I as far as um getting this out to people that would be impacted by it. Uh the city uh they do um utility coordination meetings. uh they had and that will be that's usually two times a year. But then they had another meeting with those same utility companies two weeks ago or three three weeks ago in which they went through some new um rules that they're they're going to and at that meeting uh we discussed county we discussed that we would be going to something similar to this. So they're they're aware um how to get it out to them. You know it can be through number of different channels. Um, I would assume the newspaper would pick this up today. So, you know, that would get out there and I we probably have contacts. I mean, we can send it out by email to our different contacts we have. So,

on that note as well, I've talked to every contractor that I have for permits. They they know something's coming. So, I usually keep them up to date on changes that will be made because I've had to address a lot of issues as well. So regulations that were enacted on September 13, 1995. I I think it is time to to bring these into the 21st century. Agree, Sam. So yeah, thanks for that. We'll we'll get back to you. um desk if you want to go ahead and put it on the agenda for a few weeks. Um we'll send it out to HBA, too.

Yeah. Yeah, we can. I'll send it to Yeah, do that. And you know, it it could impact some of some of their members. Um like I said earlier, the homeowner and they may have questions about how some of it's worded in their be we're not catching and maybe they read it a certain way and Yeah, they're a good resource on things like that. So, yeah, we'll we'll do that, too. All right. Thank you. Thank you, R. Yep. I go like, we've raced through everything. Uh, Chief Boy, I mean, you're not even on the agenda this week. It We all need to reset.

Oh, do we have anything else? So, we got these pay forms come across um the prosecutor's office. There's Okay,

four of them. One's [music] a pay increase of 46.85. One's $7,50. One's $4,550. The other one's $6,489.60. So, um, I'm not signed it. I mean, I don't know what our policy is to have them come up here and talk about it. The sheriff came up here and asked for special increases. Um, I did talk to Jay about it being in their budget. He said it is in our budget because they've got vacancies, but if we're going to do this with vacancies and because they have it in it, then are we also going to tell them that next year if funding is [clears throat] not increased that we're going to have to decrease their pay then? Um, and this is a prosecutor's office where we're losing funding for the VOCA positions, too. So, this this is and I think Jay said it last week, right now is the time we need to be looking at tightening up belts and these are some really significant changes and I don't think it's fair to the other elected officials as well. There's nothing in here about why there there's raises there's no additional duties or anything. Um, I mean, we've talked to LB about additional duties with the senior tax freeze, too. You know, they'll be up here in line next wanting some increases. I question that as well. So, Commissioner Heler asked me to look into it and given the proposed increases, they are within this year's budget, but when you look at the base starting for next year, we would have to increase their budget unless they eliminated a vacancy or reduced the the budgeted salary for that vacancy that we put into the 2026 budget.

[clears throat]

You know, this gets tricky. Uh, we quote appropriated X dollars for salaries in that office. If the highest paid person in that office other than the elected official leaves, the highest paid one leaves and someone else takes his place from within and moves up towards that salary. Is it our duty to question that? Or if he if the the boss of the office says, "Hey, I lost my number one. Maybe I lost my number two. I've promoted within. I've stayed in my budget. Let me run my office."

The I guess the question I would ask is what is mean is meant by stayed in in my budget. if they is it stayed in the budget for this year or is it that the base that you start next year's budget if you've stayed in with that? So at the very add something about state law on this. Okay. When you appropriate a budget to an elected official, they have discretion to to spend that money. Right. I'm up to a podium bill for Okay. I don't know if you can see in the corner.

When when you appropriate for elected officials office, they can spend that it's in their discretion to spend that how they see fit. However, that does if they say and and this happened years ago with a former assessor. Um, if they increase salaries because they have a vacancy, that does not create an obligation on the county commission to um appropriate more money the next year if they choose to fill that vacancy. It's this is this is how you chose to spend your salary budget. This is your salary budget.

Does that answer your question? Okay. It's It's always been that way, but it is. And nobody's ever stood up to him and said, "Okay, at this point, we're not You do realize that if the money's not there, Jay just got done saying last week that, you know, things are getting tight and we need to watch it, but then we're going to do this." Um, and even if you have the money in your budget, the county commission ourselves has probably $20,000 [music] because our highest paid retired. So, it's still not right for us to take in that money and just distribute it because it's in our budget to everybody underneath of us. But, yeah, we could because it's in our budget.

Yeah, that's your decision. And but I think it needs to be made clear that if if this is what you're thinking that if an open position salary is redistributed to existing employees that there's no guarantee that that open position is going to be funded again. And then we might as well throw the salary study out the door because that was for not if if we're going to do this and let them just pay for whatever because that was in their budget, then this the salary schedule's not going to mean anything. It's going to mean zero.

It probably won't. I I think in budget time, Jeff, uh it's salary is what it is and that's what he's got. Well, remember we had that problem with the former assessor? Yes. Who had an open position. You remember that, Larry? Yes. Unfortunately, I do. Got raises and and nobody else is That's not the only one. This has happened since I've been up there.

It was made clear to him that you blew that open position. That money's not sitting there for to fill that position. So anyway, I mean and and this has all been interpreted in appellet court cases. There's don't disagree with district. I don't disagree with you at all. It is in their budget. I'm just saying I don't even know if we have signed it. So what happens if none of us sign it? If someone else questions it, I can hand them some cases. So, we if LB wants to do raises and he's got the money in his, why does he even have to come up here just to send the sheet across our desk and you know want us to do it?

It's not going to be it's not going to end here. So I think if you receive a what do we call that form just salary paid form

salary paid form if you receive one from an elected official I think you have to accept it and and [music] pass it on to the commission and and in some cases or maybe every case you can tell us whether or not this exceeds the current appropriation. Are they if if these raises [music] would occur today and be effective until December 31 of this year, if that number goes above the budget, we have to back off. He, you know, the the uh elected official who wants [music] that those raises has to back off because we're projecting your numbers you'll run out of money in November or whatever. So, Commissioner Otto, on that when we start the next year's budget,

do we cut pay? Well, to to to back up to get to that base. So, next year, we do. Okay. Okay. As long as people realize that that and I think you make that clear ahead of time that this is going to be a consequence. That way there's, you know, or you eliminate the position They did. I think I think we will be eliminating. You've been around state government long enough to know that one of the big sins that people they considered a big sin if they let [music] appropriations lapse, right?

So you've seen I've seen back in the day revenue at in June spend a million3 for postage. that's going to take them through all of next year on some they're going to be cuz they're not going to let their postage budget lapse. And I've been with small agencies where when someone retired or left with 240 hours of vacation or comp time built up, you had to wait months to fill a position because you didn't have the appropriation authority to fill that position uh immediately. uh because you know it didn't include all the the payouts and things of that nature.

When you see a new elected official statewide come in on January 10th or whatever that date is uh and he's turning over the staff and he's going to quote clean house. she's going to clean house and all of a sudden they get hammered with [music] crude leave that that's an unbelievable payroll cost to that department and they may have to keep that position open for a while because unit 30 they got something that's stops them from paying that and so I don't think we we have people here that say oh I'm not going to let this money lapse I don't think that's at all I I'm not familiar with all the details of that but because I did have Jessica do the numbers.

Yeah, I think it's still attached to and there's there's still a couple hundred as well. Uh so that's why I think I signed those, didn't I? Yeah. Yeah. But but if they fill the positions that they have um I think you said they got enough to make it to the end of the year, but then next year you're going to have to increase their budget.

And it was it wasn't significant. it was $1,800 or $2,000 of what their base next year would have to be raised based on these um adjustments. But it was just the question of what is meant by I'm within budget. Yes, you're in budget within budget this year, but the base starting next year would have to be raised if you didn't reduce the salaries of vote of the vacant positions.

I just the special increases are just I don't I just totally not that some of them aren't deserved. They just drives me nuts. And so his is a bigger office up there with a lot of people. So he does have vacancies more often. Okay, Jay, your office doesn't Yeah.

have as many people. So, I mean, when it does happen, play the game. Say, well, don't retire until after January 1st. That way, I got the money in my budget, and then once you retire, I'm just it's in my budget, so I'm going to get both my people $19,000 raises. And that's the games they're playing. So if if nothing else, just want to shoot a shot across their bow and saying we need to make a list of these special special salary increases and come budget time, that's where we're holding people's feet to the fire. And I there's

this is what could potentially happen. Let's just make a hypothetical so we're not talking about anybody. It's hypothetical. this happens, these raises occur in some hypothetical office and then that elected official when he does his budget, he throws it in there and he has to raise all these numbers. There's a that last column that first time we get it. You know what that last column says at the top? Auditor recommends. I can see you being slash and burned on some of these numbers because we're [laughter] not going to you're not going to recommend what the elected official is put in.

And I've seen different budget philosophies before that it it doesn't matter. You begin the salary based on current and you reflect everything that's been there. And if that causes the base to increase, it does. Well, it does for the person submitting the budget. It doesn't necessarily for the auditor who's who's paying attention. See,

I you know, one thing I I've always kind of been disappointed in is when we get these forms, there's a box in there to explain what's going on, and that box is often empty. Yeah. And I would I would should be required. I would be happy to read whatever somebody put in that box to justify these number changes. It's just I mean, even if we're required, they said, "Well, I'm going to refuse to. what are you going to do? It's in my budget. You have to sign. So, it's that's the part that frustrates me. And it just happens to be the prosecutor sent this down that came across. So, I'm picking on him. And you know, it' been better if it had been LV because that's easier to pick on. He's easier to target. So,

uh well, the meeting was going to be too short otherwise. Where do you get your tax bill this year? Okay. Kathy's gonna be mad. Do we have anything else? I would [clears throat] entertain a motion to stand in recess. I would make a motion to stand in recess until 4:30 p.m. Second roll. All in favor? I I'm so used to close session.