Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

All right, let's start the meeting of the Cold Spring Zoning Board of Appeals. I'm the chair, Eric Werth. Other members present are Marian Remy, John Martin, and Billy Fields. There is one item on the agenda tonight. And the applicant is here, Chris. Do you want to come up to the table and join us? Absolutely. The property is at 8 East Belvedere Street. And this is a workshop. where we consider whether the application is complete and correct and make sure to answer any questions about the process and potentially set up public hearing date if everything's in order. So Jeff, why don't you start and just give us a brief summary of what you're looking to do.

Absolutely. So first of all, thank you all for coming out this evening. I understand. Although this is on the calendar every other week, it doesn't necessarily occur every other week. So I appreciate, especially on short notice, you being here. My name is Christopher Devine. My wife, Kathy Prifles Devine, and I are moving to Cold Spring with our son Oscar. We currently live in Beacon. I'm originally from the Hudson Valley. On our second date, we discussed where we would like to live in the world. and I said Cold Spring. So she said the Berkshires, which also would be lovely, but here we are. We are in contract to purchase a house at 8 East Belvedere, which is a to-be-built house, and it is approaching completion. And we are keen on, or we're seeking a zoning variant to build an eight-foot fence in the rear yard. The municipal code allows for the construction of six-foot fences in the rear yard and four-foot fences on side yards and front yards. The reason that we are seeking this variance is because there is an existing chain-link fence between purpose. And that fence is just shy of eight feet. Okay. So at its highest point, it is, I think, seven feet and 11 inches. So we're seeking an eight foot fence that will clear the existing fence. And there are a handful of reasons for that as outlined in the application. One of the that is used not only by the school, but also by the community. The second reason for that is to cover up the existing chain link fence, which I don't think I'll be offending anyone when I say has seen better days. And there are some photos, if you look in particular at the photos on the final pages of the application. it shows some of the existing conditions. Just an idea about the sort of disrepair that the current fence is ending. And then the third reason, and I thought about bringing in the visual aid, actually, but I forgot. Lacrosse balls. So lacrosse balls come from, so the builder has a collection now in the garage of this new house of lacrosse balls that have come through this fence. Now, some of them are coming under the chain link fence and some of them are coming over. And so in addition to privacy and to matching the existing conditions, that is actually a very real concern of ours and something that we want to be mindful of.

The fence that we are proposing is illustrated

In the application. and tell you a little bit. So it is in the second to last section of the application and I realized it's not passionate my apology for that was chosen elevation of the fence okay and then this shows. A comparable fence, this is. This is unpainted cedar. We would be painting ours white. Our proposal is to paint the cedar fence white. The reason for the white fence is because it strikes us as contextually appropriate. I understand that this is not part of the Coltrane Historic District. Nevertheless, I'm an architectural historian and a preservationist, and I feel very strongly about speaking the vernacular. So we wanted to use materials that were consistent with the existing urban fabric. And so that is the reason that we chose a white painted cedar fence. It is not inexpensive to go with cedar, but it is far preferable to use cedar over vinyl i understand that there have been other uh questions that have come up in the village of cold spring about the use of materials surrounding them so again even though we're not applying for a variance in a historic just in the historic district we nevertheless want to be mindful of that and mindful of our neighbors It is unclear to us whether or not we also need a variance for the side yard. So the proposal, what we're proposing is an extension of the six foot fence that could arguably be considered part of the side yard. And the reason for that is twofold. One is because transitioning from eight feet to four feet would look ridiculous. The second reason for that illustrations here and in the application, there is a pathway that students use to go to school. Now, whether or not the students are allowed to do that or should be doing that, I don't know. But they do. And the pathway has been cleared. And so that actually is, although it's not paved, it is actually sort of, in some ways, kind of a public walkway. And so we want to establish some privacy there as well. The defense will The eight foot fence will wrap around slightly in the rear yard, and then we'll transition down to a three and a half foot picket fence. And the three and a half foot picket fence will go around the front of the property and will extend, I believe it's 25 feet from the front of the house, still leaving enough room for road and road work.

We need a variance for the six-foot portion that extends into the side yard. So the side yard begins with the rear face of the house. With the rear facade of the house. Imagine a straight line across that rearmost facade where it intersects your eastern side boundary. That's where the side yard begins. So everything northward from there

would be on should be port leader left so where it's not so it's it's essentially this section from here to here which is probably about uh six or seven feet of fence maybe even less than that that we would also be applying for a variance for so that's six foot privacy fence so we're going eight feet, and I'm sorry, I misspoke before, because I said it would be eight feet transitioning. So it's eight feet transitions to six feet on the sides, and then would transition to three and a half feet in the front. So this section right here is also a variance.

Where's the student pathway you mentioned?

I was going to ask relatively. Yeah, great question. So the student pathway is right here, okay?

A relevant piece of information that works in your favor.

Yes. We imagine that that's how our son will be getting to school. We have no problem with the students unless it's deemed unsafe. So we think it's great. Look, we've made the decision to buy a house next to the school athletic field. have a requisite amount of privacy. So yes, so that's where the student pathway is. And then on the other side, this technically is still the backyard. So this is in compliance with the building code.

OK, so that'll be six feet on that side. That will be six feet on that side. No variance needed there for that part.

OK, so it's the purple section and a portion just a little portion of this pink section on the right-hand side.

Right. So is there a measurement that would indicate as you come across? Is it straight across in the foremost back portion?

The way I read the code, yeah, it's you draw a line, straight line across that rear facade, the rearmost facade.

Here, correct?

Basically, yeah.

So then we have to know these numeric, you know, if we're going to be specific in explaining.

Yeah, it would be just to be completely correct at the public hearing. You don't need it now. But at the public hearing, if you could tell us the exact dimensions that where the variant is required in the side yard.

Sure. Yeah, because you're going to be mentioning that in a final.

It'll be covered in the decision.

The back line of the Oh, the back line of the garage.

Well, it's all one building, right?

It is all one structure.

Right. From that says, wouldn't it be from there? Yeah, I think it would be talking about a smaller list. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So of course, in the Cold Spring Village code,

The illustration is a perfectly rectangular building, right? So it, so the example of the list. Yeah, exactly.

Perfect rectangles.

Um, so, uh, but, but yes, I will get both measurements. Okay.

And, and, and, um, yeah, the measurement to that first little X and then that continuation, which you say it'll be maybe six foot. Yes. Okay. Okay.

You don't have an aerial. I'm going to get my phone out. I want to see the aerial view.

So you can do that. However, there used to be a lot of trees here. Oh, so you're not going to be able to see anything. This was the 6 East Belvedere. This was originally part of 6 East Belvedere and it was subdivided. It was split into two lots. And then this lot was just sitting vacant with trees. Unfortunately, what happened was when the builder cut down the trees that needed to be cut down to accommodate the house. The remaining trees were visibly unhealthy. They hadn't received adequate sunlight and they posed an existential threat to the structure that was going to be built. We plan on replanting trees. I'm also a big believer in trees. We plan on replanting trees and sort of reforesting, you can call it. And that's worth mentioning as well. We don't imagine this just being sort of a stark white event. We want to integrate it into the landscape. But as far as a Google aerial view, what you are going to find is not super instructive.

Here's how the zoning code chapter 134 defines the rear yard. It's the space on a lot between the rear lot line and a line described by the rear face of the principal building.

So that would be the back line because it's all one building.

Yes, exactly. There's one principal building. So this, the back of the garage, if you draw a straight line over where it intersects the side, so you'll need to give us the measurement. Also, the... A shape of the part over four feet. Is it going to slope? Like, you know, going from six down to four. Yes. Will it be a slope? Will it be steps?

It will be a curve. But yes, I will get an illustration.

An illustration would be good. Yes. So we make a part of it. Yes. Now, the chain ring fence, is it going to stay or go? It's not ours. Oh, it's not yours.

It's on their side, the holiday side.

Oh, it's Haldane's. Part of it is a little bit of it is on our property, but it's Haldane's chain link fence. I will say about the chain link fence, and I don't know who to bring this to. I'm actually concerned about it from a safety point of view. And the reason I'm concerned about it, again, goes back to the lacrosse halls. I imagine someone getting a lacrosse ball lost, going down to get it, and they scrape themselves on this rustic fence.

Okay.

And what do you bring down to the school?

Right. Exactly. So I think that that goes right. Probably spare your fence a little bit from getting marred by Barrett. Right. So I would keep it up.

No, I definitely think it should be kept up.

Poison ivy on the Haldane side, everything will be fine. There is poison ivy on it.

So the I think that there absolutely should be a chain link fence there.

be replaced at some point uh for safety reasons for the school but that's not what we're here to discuss um and then and the yeah and so the other thing is like uh that there are no alternative uh you know the more mitigating circumstances that you could have selected like for instance fence shrubbery or something like that, because you're looking for privacy.

Yeah, at the public hearing itself, that's one of the things we're going to ask is, or the one of the things we're required to consider is whether there are alternatives you could turn to to achieve your end without getting a variance. So you should be sure why you were forced to resort to this.

Various requests to hire. The chain link fence, I'm sure, was in part to allow airflow, you know, and as well as to protect, you know, sort of the school grounds. But, you know, it's like an open air thing as opposed to, you know, straight square, a football. Because, I mean, how far is it from the track itself?

It's relatively far from the track. That photo is actually 40 yards. Yeah.

Yeah.

So there's a decent amount of distance. And I think that I would say that there's a chain link fence there just because there's a chain link fence around the perimeter of the school. That's typically what you find. And I think that previously, this whole area was just covered up with trees and shrubbery and that sort of thing. So I think it went overlooked. As far as other steps we would take or other steps we could take, The alternative would be to plant very tall trees. We do intend to plant some trees, which are illustrated here. And those trees will grow. But that is not going to provide us, at the outset, the privacy that we're looking for. And we're looking for privacy today, not privacy in 5G.

It also looks like your backyard is relatively, or is not. The backyard is very small. So limiting the space for vegetation. Exactly. But that's something you can get into in a fuller presentation in the hearing as well, because then the public will be.

Yeah, these are just examples.

No, this is super helpful.

Like I put a big 15-foot privet fence, a privet bush behind my backyard, 15 foot. So it's tough to cut, but. How wide is it? Well, you know, over time, it'll expand out. So you have to cut it back a little harshly in the springtime in order to that it doesn't get too wide, too dense. And again, there is a, you know, a limited backyard here. I don't see again, there's no markings.

There's dimensions, I think, on the other place. Yeah, there's a survey with dimensions. Okay. It looks like it's around. We can get into this.

Yeah, these are all just points in the future what species just don't cure out today it's you know i mean there's a few different types of privet but it's basically your generic and it grows very rad okay it would take just two years for it to get to six feet to eight feet and then three years easily eight feet wow yeah it grows like you know grass so i mean those are examples the other thing is I don't remember an application for like, when do you think you're going to close?

We will be bill. The goal is to build the fence before we close.

Okay. So the, they're making an application. They are in contract, but the question is, is they don't really personally own the property yet, but the seller is not making the application. Right. So what we would do is condition a grant. I would imagine.

Well, are you thinking that if, We approve the application and then the sale falls through. The approval would carry with the property then and the next buyer would be entitled to that variance. To have an application from a non-owner is not anomalous. The process allows for that. We have a letter here from the owner authorizing action by the

That's true. Again, I don't remember us getting to this point before. The application is actually being made by the owner, current owner, isn't really making the application.

Yes, correct. The applicant is a future prospective buyer. But I don't think that, are you objecting to that?

I'm not objecting. I'm just bringing it up. Right. You know, think about it.

Okay. Well, I don't know if it's, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think that's, in fact, our instructions cover that possibility by saying, if you're not the owner, provide a letter from the owner authorizing this move.

Well, then that's it. And our instructions, which are formally what our instructions are, right? I mean, it's something we approved. Yes. Therefore, that's enough. Okay. Okay. Just making sure.

No, no, no. It's completely reasonable. There's no doubt that it's... It's definitely unusual. Our goal is to keep this everything moving forward.

The last thing I was going to say is if the sale falls, I'm not sure if the granting of it would really run with the land.

I think that's always been one of the quirks of variances is that they do run with them. That's one of the things that ZBA is meant, is supposed to keep in mind, which is if you granted, even if the property changes, hang on.

Yeah, but the fence won't yet be erected. Will it be erected?

Well, he said he wants to do it before the closing. It'll be actually the owner, the current owner, the developer.

Just saying how it all fell on the fence, regardless. Yeah.

You can take it with him if the shell falls through.

I'm just saying all these things. One thing I want, if you can, when you come back, I want to see the measurements further out on the back of your property, because An eight-foot fence is going to look like a six-foot fence, the way that property drops from the track to the house. That's a good point. I'd like to see what the measurement is after this 128 line, because my belief is that you're going to get a 129 line and a 130 line and a 131 line. because I've been on this track and that rolls away. I'd like to see that because I think, at least for me, it makes me more amenable to a variance if I know that, for one, it's going to look like a shorter fence.

Right. That's a great point.

All these little thoughts. The reason why it's mentioned is that if it were granted, these are the things that would go into a final analysis and description.

Of course.

Understood.

I think that the application is complete. All the required paperwork seems to be here. Does anyone else agree with that? Anything more you'd like to see other than what we've been listening to?

I guess, I mean, just other than the fact that the downsloping illustration of the site. Exactly.

Is it clear that there's also a variance in this paperwork? that there's a variance needed for the site.

You're going to need to add that. Right. I will put that in when I draw up the notice of notice. I will include that. Yeah, it's not really clear. In fact, it's not stated in the building inspector's referral.

Yeah, exactly. That's why we were confused. We had raised it as a possibility when we submitted our initial application, and then it didn't come back.

There's only written as the year before.

So that's why I'll put that in the notice, and it will come out in the hearing, too. It'll be a whole part of the hearing.

Is there a need to amend the building?

No, I don't think so. It's not unusual. used to come out in the course of, I mean, even at the hearing itself, some new issue could come out, we cover it, and then it's fine. And that's part of the purpose of the workshop is to draw out all the issues, make sure they're all on the table.

So reading the most recent email about the PCNR and where to publicize these issues, It's, you know, whether it's the current or now.

We have to do the town prior now.

But now I found out why I don't have a long day at the PCNR.

It's always like, when am I going to cash? Yeah, just after 136 years.

Oh my goodness.

Yes, it just... You could start it up again if you wanted.

I think it went with Aqueduct Racetrack when it expired after 132 years. That's happening. Yeah.

Okay, so the next, we seem to have dealt with everything and there's no obstacle now to scheduling a public hearing, which is the next step. Sure. And then at the hearing, you give your formal presentation, similar to what you just did, except everything you can have to say. Of course. Public will have the opportunity to speak or comment and... now um the mailings and the signs yeah yeah um the the soonest we can hold the hearing is uh four weeks from now um because we're required to give the planning board a chance to comment um and they need 30 days to do that so as much as 30 days so um that puts us into the um september um second tuesday in september is the 8th september 8th does that work for you tuesday after labor yeah that's i think the tuesday after labor day is probably not a winning move okay i mean we can make this work we can make that work definitely but i i i'll be around i just i'm just saying like yeah there's gonna be a lot of people that won't be but right yeah

Yeah.

Back to school and everything.

Yeah. Right. Well, that's the other thing is that, I mean, my son starts school that day. I don't know. I think Haldane starts the same day as well. Do you want to make it two weeks after that?

Yeah. Unless you, unless that.

I mean, if you, I'm happy to do September 8th.

Well, would a timetable in general, if we did it the 22nd? Um,

A little bit. Those two weeks would be valuable. How long after the public hearing will there be a decision?

We might make a decision that night. By law, we have 60 days after that. But realistically, we have never taken that long.

Okay. I'm hoping I'm not presenting you with something that requires 60 days of deliberation. It seems sort of very binary. But ideally, yes, September 8th would be preferable just in terms of the construction timeline.

If that is not... Well, a large part of it is whether we'll have a quorum. Billy will be here. I will be here. I'll be here. All right. Well, then... Really, there's no reason we can't do it on the 8th. So that's what we'll do, right? So I'll make a motion that we hold the public hearing for this application on September, the regular scheduled meeting on September 8th. I'll second. All in favor? Aye. So now you have to do a couple of things ahead of time. You'll have to post a sign in front of the property, visible from the street, and you get that from the clerk. It has to be up at least 10 days before September 8th, so you have time to get to that. And at the meeting itself, you will sign an affidavit saying that the sign had been there for 10 days. Yes. You need to mail notices to, you have a list in your application of your neighbors who need to be notified. And it looked like a correct list. It seems like you've covered everyone. So you'll just mail certified letters. And I will email you the notice, the one page statement of notice. That's what you'll print that. And that's what you'll want. When I do that, which will be in the next couple of days, I'll also give you a written notice. instructions on how to do it, what proof of mailing is required, et cetera.

Do I have to have the sign fabricated?

No, no. It's a pre-existing sign, and you just fill in a marker, I guess. Got it. What it's for. Understood. And then, Marjorie, I will The notice that I create in the next couple of days is that the legal, so the newspaper, the Gipsy Journal, I guess, right?

Gipsy Journal is at present the legal paper record, but we also post in the Highlands Current, even though it's unfortunately double paying at this time. We don't know that local residents read the Highlands Current. Right. in fairness as courtesy to local residents. So they do get the information, which is the purpose of posting.

Is there a reason that the Highlands Current can't function as the paper of record?

The paper of record has to have a paid distribution. And the Highlands Current is operated as a nonprofit. There also has to be second class mail. It has to have circulation in the community.

That's all New York State law. Yes. Understood. Understood.

Go for the business.

Any other business? No. Okay. Make a motion that we close the meeting. Second that. All in favor? Aye. Aye.

Thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you so much. Wow, that was difficult. First time in six months.

You got a little rusty. No, Eric wasn't.